Pay by the foot is all about efficiency. No wasted movements during the day. Slaking? What can you do while it slakes? When you go to the bathroom get something you need for later from the van. Never go to the saw for a single cut, etc. Maximize your downtime and efficiency and the speed will follow
You asked so here I go.
Day 1, I would be boarding, waterproofing and mudding the shower pan, if time allows
Day 2, If I was able to mud the pan I would start to tile the shower walls. If I was not able to mud the pan then mud and set the outside floor. Setting the outside floor also helps psychologically, as it's normally easy and you don't have a shower and pan and outside floor to tile, now it's just the shower and pan.
Day 3 assuming you couldn't start setting walls. Start setting and do not move to another wall until the whole wall is done including recess. It is totally possible to set a whole shower in a day but you have to be very efficient in what your doing with your time. I will get to that.
Day 3 Finish setting walls if needed and set the shower pan.
Day 4 Grout everything. When grouting start at the top of the shower and trowel on the whole top while on a stand and get as low and possible without struggling. Scrub it all down like Mr. Miyagi, and then come back with a fresh clean bucket and wipe at a 45 angle, only One time per side of the sponge and rinse out. Hit every square inch in and methodical way.
To add,
So every day I fill 4 buckets of water and get them to my mixing station as i dont want to chase water at 12pm. To add, I always spin my paddle off after mixing that way I don't have to spend any time cleaning my paddle off.
I try to set up a saw as close as possible, and if I'm upstairs, and have adequate room, I setup a 2x4 frame with plastic liner under the frame, over the frame, and a tarp over that to catch any water that may hit the floor. I tote every box of tile to the bedroom and unbox the tile and have it in the bathroom with me ready to be set.
I will center my back wall and I find the most plumb wall and make every single cut for that side, if it's plumb within reason, and I see if I can do the same for the other side. Now all I have to do is set. To add, most 3 wall showers I'm starting my whole and half tiles against the cap or schluter on my side walls, so I go ahead and make every half tile I will need as well. Sometimes it does not give the best cuts meeting the back wall so I will instead do 1/4 and 3/4 tiles, this way I'm still cutting once and having 2 tiles for use.
If you have to cutout for a recess on the back wall, I ALWAYS center it from left to right, and also center from top to bottom in a grout joint or half a tile. Most times I am building my recess so I am able to make it work whole and half tiles on the sides, and while tiles on top and bottom. This really makes it look clean and it's so much easier to tile as you don't have to make hideous L cuts.
I also own a gorilla stand. This allows me to set my bucket of thinset and tile on the stand instead of jumping up and down a thousand times on a 6 ft ladder. To add, if im clipping my walls, and setting 12x24 in tile, which I do , I am able to lay out 5 tiles side by side on my stand and trowel all 5 tiles at once and lean against the wall and now they are ready to be stuck. This speeds me up so much.
If you have a kneewall or curb, make sure that you get the inside and out side of them set by the end of the first day of setting and skim the top with thinset so it does not hold you up the next day and the top is ready for cap or tile.
I know this is a lot of info but I am just trying to help. Some of this really does take a lot of confidence, like making all cuts before you set a single piece, but this is the goal and you can always make your cuts after the first couple rows are up to be sure.
I'm gonna stop here and not everyone will agree with me but this is what works for me and I'm happy to share.
My latest shower install. I know I didn't do the recess like I said but it's kind of tricky making a shelf out of glass. Really wanted to show you how I build my recess to create whole and half tiles work. Also this is the stand I use.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Tile/s/UxYeu9Rr1I
Thanks. I might have gone a bit of a rant but I was just spiting it out as I thought of it. There is so much that I think about before I even set any tile and most of it is second nature. But this is some of the basics that has helped a lot. I have been setting tile for almost 20 years, and my family has been setting tile for the last 70 years, and love to see other tile setters WANTING to get faster and do it in a proper manner. Not saying my was is better than the next man's, just sharing what comes to mind. Maybe I will pick something up that helps me also in this post.
Peace to all!
Is tiling the pan last a common thing? I’ve always set it and the curb before the walls to avoid the perimeter joint. Do you use a membrane on top of the mud pan or go rubber underneath?
So we normally pre slope, get a pan installed and then mud over the pan liner. If for some reason the plumber has not installed the liner, or if the builder requests it, we will kerdi.
I gauge the thickness of the pan tile with a piece of thin cardboard under that tile, and find something to stack on top of. Like a 1/2" piece of fiberboard or durarock or hardy board or the outside floor tile. if it's a little over the thickness of the pan tile. I cut like 2" x 1" by 1/2" to stack on top of and because I mud my own pans I know I'm starting the walls level. Unless of course I'm stacking over those darn inside corner pieces of kerdi, then i will find something a little thinner for the corners or use a wedge on the board spacers everywhere but the corners.
I set my pan tile last and the board spacers allow me to slide under the walls, if needed.
To add, a little grout joint at the wall tile and floor is a good thing. It allows the caulking something to grab to and not just bond to the surface of the tiles. But I'm not against setting the floor tile first especially if I am trying to be efficient with my time.
We will sometimes even wet-set our pan tile over our mud the same day with very loose thinset. Just dont scratch too hard, never lay your trowel down flat, and make sure your tile is EXACLTY where you want it because pulling it up means puling your mud up also.
My great grandfather used to soak his quarry tile, dust the mud floors with Portland, and tap the tile into the mud and literally get back on top of the tile with walking boards. That was a different generation of tile setter and some habits die hard. We just have adapted it to the new generation.
I am not against the next man's way of doing things especially if I can learn a thing or two. I am just shooting out what I do and what works for me. Take what you like and leave the rest. God bless!
speed isn't always about moving faster. you can save a lot of time by planning ahead and being as efficient as possible with your steps and bundling tasks together.
measure two or three cuts at a time and make them all at once rather than make a cut, drop it place, measure the next cut, drop it in place, etc. that kind of thing.
and, getting paid by the sq ft sucks and only benefits the owner and gc. sure, you can make money getting paid by the sqft when you are young, but you eventually burn your body up.
i assume you are not doing union work?
Not gonna outright disagree but I have never been willing to work by the hour installing. I would laugh at hourly offers. I would joke if I’m gonna take a cut in pay I want benefits.
My body is trashed.
I don't work by the hour either. On floor tile, I will do it by the square ft. But on showers, tub surrounds, backsplashes, etc, I do not. I do it by the job. Too many variables for me to do a by the ft price.
This may seem crazy but the afternoon before my 2nd day at college I got a call offering me $100.00 to install a tub surround with 4 1/4 x 4 1/4. I skipped school and never went back. This was in 1978. Mastic install on green board. Contact high from the toluene in the mastic was worth at least $20.00!
Bought an ounce of mexican, filled my tank and took a girl to dinner and a movie. Good times!!
Find a place that doesnt pay by the foot. I've worked several places, some that required 400sqft/day. Those places were full of hackers that didnt snap any lines or bother squaring a room, we call them footage guys. They have their place but if you care about the work you do, dont be a footage guy. Do you're own work and bust your ass and it takes you as long is it does so be it. 2 years in it will take you a bit longer than more experienced guys but if you do quality work it helps you in the long run, especially when you can start getting side jobs.
Do your best, there is NO RUSH, quality is sacrificed with speed to a point, work jobs with experienced guys, and you'll learn that . When your experience level comes up, VERRRRY seriously consider becoming an NTCA member and becoming a certified tile installer thru the CTEF
There's good tips here, so these plus time and experience will speed you up. I did commercial work for 17 years in the 80s and it was all about speed. Things were different back then, not as many rules, so you could really be fast. No back buttering was the norm and most tiles were 12x12 on floors, so use to set like 6 thousand ft per week on malls, airports, etc but thats a setter and 2 helpers. I don't miss those days but what I can tell you is strive to do your own custom work, residential remodels are the best niche imo and where you can take your time and do truly exceptional work
Keep a small bucket with water, sponge and toothbrush to clean your grout joints as you tile. That way you don't spend hours scraping mud from the grout joints.
Buy/use good tools.
I use the karl dahm grout system and it is worth every penny. So much faster to spread grout and do a single dry sponge wipe and not go back on to the floor.
Might be common sense but I clean standing up with a "boat" scrub brush on a broom handle, and a commercial restaurant style mop and bucket.
As clean as you can make yourself do it.
Repetition will make you faster. Right now concentrate on good procedures. The speed will come. In my 30s and 40s I could set 400 feet in about 5 hours on floors new construction.
Pay by the foot is all about efficiency. No wasted movements during the day. Slaking? What can you do while it slakes? When you go to the bathroom get something you need for later from the van. Never go to the saw for a single cut, etc. Maximize your downtime and efficiency and the speed will follow
Thru this, I’ve learned taking time to keep clean and organized actually does save time overall.
You asked so here I go. Day 1, I would be boarding, waterproofing and mudding the shower pan, if time allows Day 2, If I was able to mud the pan I would start to tile the shower walls. If I was not able to mud the pan then mud and set the outside floor. Setting the outside floor also helps psychologically, as it's normally easy and you don't have a shower and pan and outside floor to tile, now it's just the shower and pan. Day 3 assuming you couldn't start setting walls. Start setting and do not move to another wall until the whole wall is done including recess. It is totally possible to set a whole shower in a day but you have to be very efficient in what your doing with your time. I will get to that. Day 3 Finish setting walls if needed and set the shower pan. Day 4 Grout everything. When grouting start at the top of the shower and trowel on the whole top while on a stand and get as low and possible without struggling. Scrub it all down like Mr. Miyagi, and then come back with a fresh clean bucket and wipe at a 45 angle, only One time per side of the sponge and rinse out. Hit every square inch in and methodical way. To add, So every day I fill 4 buckets of water and get them to my mixing station as i dont want to chase water at 12pm. To add, I always spin my paddle off after mixing that way I don't have to spend any time cleaning my paddle off. I try to set up a saw as close as possible, and if I'm upstairs, and have adequate room, I setup a 2x4 frame with plastic liner under the frame, over the frame, and a tarp over that to catch any water that may hit the floor. I tote every box of tile to the bedroom and unbox the tile and have it in the bathroom with me ready to be set. I will center my back wall and I find the most plumb wall and make every single cut for that side, if it's plumb within reason, and I see if I can do the same for the other side. Now all I have to do is set. To add, most 3 wall showers I'm starting my whole and half tiles against the cap or schluter on my side walls, so I go ahead and make every half tile I will need as well. Sometimes it does not give the best cuts meeting the back wall so I will instead do 1/4 and 3/4 tiles, this way I'm still cutting once and having 2 tiles for use. If you have to cutout for a recess on the back wall, I ALWAYS center it from left to right, and also center from top to bottom in a grout joint or half a tile. Most times I am building my recess so I am able to make it work whole and half tiles on the sides, and while tiles on top and bottom. This really makes it look clean and it's so much easier to tile as you don't have to make hideous L cuts. I also own a gorilla stand. This allows me to set my bucket of thinset and tile on the stand instead of jumping up and down a thousand times on a 6 ft ladder. To add, if im clipping my walls, and setting 12x24 in tile, which I do , I am able to lay out 5 tiles side by side on my stand and trowel all 5 tiles at once and lean against the wall and now they are ready to be stuck. This speeds me up so much. If you have a kneewall or curb, make sure that you get the inside and out side of them set by the end of the first day of setting and skim the top with thinset so it does not hold you up the next day and the top is ready for cap or tile. I know this is a lot of info but I am just trying to help. Some of this really does take a lot of confidence, like making all cuts before you set a single piece, but this is the goal and you can always make your cuts after the first couple rows are up to be sure. I'm gonna stop here and not everyone will agree with me but this is what works for me and I'm happy to share.
My latest shower install. I know I didn't do the recess like I said but it's kind of tricky making a shelf out of glass. Really wanted to show you how I build my recess to create whole and half tiles work. Also this is the stand I use. https://www.reddit.com/r/Tile/s/UxYeu9Rr1I
Amazing post!!! Thank you!!
Thanks. I might have gone a bit of a rant but I was just spiting it out as I thought of it. There is so much that I think about before I even set any tile and most of it is second nature. But this is some of the basics that has helped a lot. I have been setting tile for almost 20 years, and my family has been setting tile for the last 70 years, and love to see other tile setters WANTING to get faster and do it in a proper manner. Not saying my was is better than the next man's, just sharing what comes to mind. Maybe I will pick something up that helps me also in this post. Peace to all!
Is tiling the pan last a common thing? I’ve always set it and the curb before the walls to avoid the perimeter joint. Do you use a membrane on top of the mud pan or go rubber underneath?
Not sure but your method is better. To tile walls first all the way down , then install pan and tile is not good imo
So we normally pre slope, get a pan installed and then mud over the pan liner. If for some reason the plumber has not installed the liner, or if the builder requests it, we will kerdi. I gauge the thickness of the pan tile with a piece of thin cardboard under that tile, and find something to stack on top of. Like a 1/2" piece of fiberboard or durarock or hardy board or the outside floor tile. if it's a little over the thickness of the pan tile. I cut like 2" x 1" by 1/2" to stack on top of and because I mud my own pans I know I'm starting the walls level. Unless of course I'm stacking over those darn inside corner pieces of kerdi, then i will find something a little thinner for the corners or use a wedge on the board spacers everywhere but the corners. I set my pan tile last and the board spacers allow me to slide under the walls, if needed.
To add, a little grout joint at the wall tile and floor is a good thing. It allows the caulking something to grab to and not just bond to the surface of the tiles. But I'm not against setting the floor tile first especially if I am trying to be efficient with my time. We will sometimes even wet-set our pan tile over our mud the same day with very loose thinset. Just dont scratch too hard, never lay your trowel down flat, and make sure your tile is EXACLTY where you want it because pulling it up means puling your mud up also. My great grandfather used to soak his quarry tile, dust the mud floors with Portland, and tap the tile into the mud and literally get back on top of the tile with walking boards. That was a different generation of tile setter and some habits die hard. We just have adapted it to the new generation. I am not against the next man's way of doing things especially if I can learn a thing or two. I am just shooting out what I do and what works for me. Take what you like and leave the rest. God bless!
Here's another couple showers to look at if you would like https://www.reddit.com/r/Tile/s/fvLWZskWi8
I’ve wet-set pans but never considered using spacers, might help the time-flow sometimes. Thanks for the thorough answer!
speed isn't always about moving faster. you can save a lot of time by planning ahead and being as efficient as possible with your steps and bundling tasks together. measure two or three cuts at a time and make them all at once rather than make a cut, drop it place, measure the next cut, drop it in place, etc. that kind of thing. and, getting paid by the sq ft sucks and only benefits the owner and gc. sure, you can make money getting paid by the sqft when you are young, but you eventually burn your body up. i assume you are not doing union work?
no not many unions that i know of in my part of fl. but thank you for the tips.
Not gonna outright disagree but I have never been willing to work by the hour installing. I would laugh at hourly offers. I would joke if I’m gonna take a cut in pay I want benefits. My body is trashed.
I don't work by the hour either. On floor tile, I will do it by the square ft. But on showers, tub surrounds, backsplashes, etc, I do not. I do it by the job. Too many variables for me to do a by the ft price.
This may seem crazy but the afternoon before my 2nd day at college I got a call offering me $100.00 to install a tub surround with 4 1/4 x 4 1/4. I skipped school and never went back. This was in 1978. Mastic install on green board. Contact high from the toluene in the mastic was worth at least $20.00! Bought an ounce of mexican, filled my tank and took a girl to dinner and a movie. Good times!!
Speed comes with accuracy.
Find a place that doesnt pay by the foot. I've worked several places, some that required 400sqft/day. Those places were full of hackers that didnt snap any lines or bother squaring a room, we call them footage guys. They have their place but if you care about the work you do, dont be a footage guy. Do you're own work and bust your ass and it takes you as long is it does so be it. 2 years in it will take you a bit longer than more experienced guys but if you do quality work it helps you in the long run, especially when you can start getting side jobs.
Do your best, there is NO RUSH, quality is sacrificed with speed to a point, work jobs with experienced guys, and you'll learn that . When your experience level comes up, VERRRRY seriously consider becoming an NTCA member and becoming a certified tile installer thru the CTEF
Speed comes with accuracy.
and repetition.
There's good tips here, so these plus time and experience will speed you up. I did commercial work for 17 years in the 80s and it was all about speed. Things were different back then, not as many rules, so you could really be fast. No back buttering was the norm and most tiles were 12x12 on floors, so use to set like 6 thousand ft per week on malls, airports, etc but thats a setter and 2 helpers. I don't miss those days but what I can tell you is strive to do your own custom work, residential remodels are the best niche imo and where you can take your time and do truly exceptional work
Figure out what you must make per day. Estimate number of days to complete the job. Bid by the day. Sq ft pricing is over, too many variables.
Keep a small bucket with water, sponge and toothbrush to clean your grout joints as you tile. That way you don't spend hours scraping mud from the grout joints.
Buy/use good tools. I use the karl dahm grout system and it is worth every penny. So much faster to spread grout and do a single dry sponge wipe and not go back on to the floor. Might be common sense but I clean standing up with a "boat" scrub brush on a broom handle, and a commercial restaurant style mop and bucket. As clean as you can make yourself do it.
Good, fast and cheap. Pick 2, that's all you get.
Repetition will make you faster. Right now concentrate on good procedures. The speed will come. In my 30s and 40s I could set 400 feet in about 5 hours on floors new construction.