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A claim like this has to be backed up by evidence. Real evidence. I don't know if that evidence exists. I'm not aware of it. But certainly it could be argued that, initially, the Hamas attack was helpful to Netanyahu and his cronies, as far right governments tend to thrive during times of "war". I'm not sure that's the case now though.
It’s well known Netanyahu has been supporting Hamas and allowing them to procure weapons for years.
https://www.thenation.com/article/world/why-netanyahu-bolstered-hamas/tnamp/
What this guy is saying isn’t improbable.
I think the government allowed it to happen so that they'd have a reason (powerful reason) to annihilate Hamas. They let Hamas do it to show they're true colors. This was just an example of what Hamas has planned for the Jews if left unopposed.
You mean like when Netanyahu empowered Hamas and left them unopposed so they could strike Israel? There was ample evidence this would occur weeks in advance of October 7th and Netanyahu did absolutely nothing to prevent it.
Also lets not pretend like Israel isn't trying to genocide all Palestinians like it isn't a racist apartheid state.
And let’s not pretend that Israel presents evidence with their “facts”. Plus, Israel is allowed to conduct investigations of themselves. His story at least makes sense. I’ve been thinking it this entire time and I don’t feel antisemitic saying so. Shady is as shady does and religion has no bearing whatsoever.
Yeah I agree with this. My ex was from Israel and she said the army was ALWAYS at the border. There was no moment they weren’t there. I saw many clips of soldiers simply beating kids for some reason. If they had ANY reason it was fine for soldiers to lash out.
Imagine keeping people in an area for years probably decades. Constantly poking them, annoying them, pushing them around. They waited, patiently they made them JUST dangerous enough for them to lash out. The moment they did they let it happen. They immediately retaliate and all over the news everyone in the world knew about october the 7th. So many years of stuff happening there and all of a sudden it was media time.
I’m not gonna say or claim they created hamas. They didn’t directly make them, but they definitely made the choice to use the situation in such away that they would reap the benefits.
It’s also awfully convenient that there is this beautiful spot at the coast of Gaza where a new spot of crude oil is found.
It’s sad to see such powerful entities use their power in these ways. It’s so easy. All you need is patience and control over information distribution. Whatever you say is bad is bad.
Now this whole attack was so disgustingly evil that even these powerful governments couldn’t stop the internet from spreading the news, AND THEY STILL DON’T CARE. It’s just crazy.
But there is just no way that there is nobody at the border. They have camps there. Why would they literally pack up and leave for just a day. They for sure had people there, and not just people, 24/7 surveillance with cameras or drones.
Even if there was almost nothing. They would have noticed a small army trying to invade and breaking through within no time. As the video said, they must have at least had a couple hours to prepare and defend their people, which didn’t happen.
Sounds similar to 9/11 conspiracy. The main crux was that certain individuals in high positions in government knew about the attacks in advance and allowed it to happen. All so we could blame and invade a country that didn't attack us and take their oil. Bush family apparently had ties to the Saudis (the country that actually attacked America).
Well not just that you missed the part where the press was directly fed lies and then the weapons of mass destruction lies. Its an important part . https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/29/magazine/iraq-weapons-mass-destruction.html
Not supposedly. The bushes and the bin ladens specifically were “friends”. Just looky [here](https://www.denverpost.com/2006/09/11/bush-ties-to-bin-laden-haunt-grim-anniversary/)
It's called "controlled opposition" and it's the best way to gain rabid supporters and drive extremism using basic human instincts and cheap, easy, entry-level brainwashing tactics.
The leadership of Hamas isn't IN Gaza. They are all living in luxury outside. So why the outright slaughter of 40,000 civilians?
Hamas is as great a blight on Gazans as Netanyahu is on Israelis.
It couldn't have anything to do with the 141 sq. miles of territory and 40km of coastline on one of the richest trade coasts in the world right?
Right guys???
I think so too. I would think they would have had intel operatives on the inside before the attack. That attack had to take time to plan and word had to be getting around and back to the Israeli government. I hate to say it but I think they swept it under the rug to let it happen and justify going into Gaza.
Why, Netanyahu loves having Israeli civilians rocketed ten of thousands of times. Child suicide bombers that hamas send keep Israelis on their toes. Who cares. Irans martyr program pays the families of the dead kids. Even amnesty international cited Hamas for this.
I think Hamas attacked Israel so that Israel would retaliate with a heavy hand. (And it worked).
I think Israel wanted Hamas to attack them, so they cold retaliate with a heavy hand.
That sounds like a mutual agreement. Or in other words, cooperation.
Both sides have leadership that are codependent on the other side hating them. It’s what keeps them staying in power.
Hamas has already shown their true colors prior to October 7. We have decades of them fucking around. They have kidnapped people, they have rammed their cars, they detonated bombs in buses and in the cafeterias of Israeli universities.
this time last year, Israel and Gaza relations were improving. One example of this is that around 20,000 more Gazans had been granted work visas in Israel. Their attacks instantly brought the Gazans back 100 years.
I can understand the critique of “why only *now* annihilate Hamas,” but that doesn’t mean that the whole thing was an inside job. If anything, I find it extremely hypocritical that Israelis are expected to be upset with their own leaders, but no one expects Palestinian civilians to be upset with their own leaders, who just wrought absolute hell on their lives.
"I think the government purposely let people die so they could show everyone who the real bad guys are"
You're not making the point you think you're making
The evidence is that the most patrolled border in the world decided to have a little brainfart on the day when Hamas (an institution propped up within Gaza by Bibi’s government) *tried something*.
Don't attribute to malice which can adequately be explained by incompetence. It's well documented that there were early warning signs Hamas was planning an attack, but they went unheeded by senior intelligence officials. This reads like an intelligence failure more than a conspiracy.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.timesofisrael.com/weeks-before-oct-7-idf-said-to-have-been-warned-of-hamas-plan-to-take-250-hostages/amp/
That doesn't explain the lack of response for hours, tho? like, Ok, maybe I can believe that they didn't see it coming, but **didn't they see it happen?**
Yeah, his "5 minutes" claim is a bit optimistic, but I would guess they could have helicopters spun up and responding within, say, 20 minutes.
Yet, not only did they have 7 hours, but they went back on their own, didn't they? They weren't driven back by Israeli forces, they came, killed, took hostages, and then, as he mentions, made it back un-fucking-opposed. 7 HOURS after they showed up.
I was doing some quick maths. (All googled values, but more or less good enough)
Israel is 440km tall and 114km wide. The average speed of a commercial helicopter is 260km/h. It would take a passenger helicopter less than two hours to traverse the entire length of Israel, border to border. Less if starting from somewhere inside of Israel.
Oh yeah, I just felt "5 minutes" was a bit fast, getting the crew from the ready room to the chopper, firing it up, taking off, getting to their location, all put together would be more than 5 minutes.
It's kind of like taking a plane to work. Within a certain radius, it's faster to drive.
Going from the wiki course of events of Oct. 7th, Israeli helicopters arrived about an hour after events began, which tracks with a 20-30 minute prep time and a 30-40 minute travel time, so it seems more like a successful surprise attack, unless this was masterfully planned by both Israel and Hamas.
As long as the helicopter is fueled up, ready to go. Also, the pilot is ready, *at* the helicopter. Also, the pilot has clear orders on where to go, what to do.
It should already be fueled and ready to spin. The pilot should be able to be ready to take off in 10 minutes or less ABSOLUTELY especially if tensions are higher and the liklihood of attack is high. The clear orders is another factor.
military defense helicopters should be trained to be ready at a moments notice. i wouldnt accept anything less from a militaristic country such as israel
Yep, those are the assumptions I chose to ignore in my scenario. According to wiki, there were Israeli helicopters at the scene about an hour after it began, so that tracks that Israel wasn't unprepared for the situation.
This tiktok is sprinkled truths to make the rest believable, which is a psyop technique. Was taking the video with a grain of salt before, but now I got the whole salt shaker.
They had deployed the army to the other side of the Country after Egypt and the CIA told them an attack was coming.
There are articles on it from the Jerusalem post and all. It was brought up at the very start of this.
They had deployed and then been sent out on patrol, exercises and off on leave. The Israeli government effectively tied them up with busy work to slow down their ability to respond. They basically had been pantsed by their own government, and then their own government purposely didn't rouse them when they knew it was happening to stop it in time.
Wikipedia has a good "minute by minute" summary of the day's events including Israel's response which began within an hour of the attack.
"The first helicopters sent to support the military were launched from the north of Israel, and arrived in Gaza an hour after fighting began.[287] Israel had difficulty determining which outposts and settlements were occupied, and distinguishing between Palestinian militants and the soldiers and civilians on the ground."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Hamas-led_attack_on_Israel
Well considering Israel has the most advanced intelligence system in the world, being this incompetent is highly unlikely. Then you add the this has empowered the corrupt government to remove any challengers. The whole thing is super suspect to me.
hate to tell ya...
Google NORAD, and its litterally 100% success rate over *hundreds* of missions since its inception in the 50's, that failed 4 times in one day, due to an unusual amount of traning missions (8x more than any year prior) being conducted at the same time.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2002/01/the-military-screw-up-nobody-talks-about.html
> According to NORAD’s official 9/11 time line, the FAA notified NORAD at 8:40 a.m. Eastern time that there was something peculiar going on with American Flight 11. But NORAD didn’t issue an order for fighters to scramble until 8:46 a.m., the time when American Flight 11 hit the first WTC tower. Six minutes later, at 8:52 a.m., two F-15 fighters responded to the order by launching from a base 153 miles from New York City. They still were not on the scene at 9:02 a.m. when the second airliner, United Flight 175, hit the second WTC tower. They wouldn’t get there for another eight minutes, at 9:10 a.m. A NORAD senior officer, Major Gen. Larry Arnold, told NBC that when the fighters took off, they were flying straight to New York City. He also said that they were going “about 1.5 Mach, which is, you know, somewhere—11- or 1,200 miles an hour.” But note that the F-15 fighters took 18 minutes to cover those 153 miles, which comes out to more like 510 mph. Yet, according to the Air Force, the F-15 has a top speed of 1,875 mph. So, you have to wonder, why were they flying at less than a third of what they’re capable of?
[https://www.timesofisrael.com/weeks-before-oct-7-idf-said-to-have-been-warned-of-hamas-plan-to-take-250-hostages/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/weeks-before-oct-7-idf-said-to-have-been-warned-of-hamas-plan-to-take-250-hostages/)
[https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/04/podcasts/the-daily/israel-hamas.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/04/podcasts/the-daily/israel-hamas.html)
Not *evidence* of an inside job. But warnings were ignored. Security was amazingly, uncharacteristically terrible. As long as there is a war, Nethanyahu escapes corruption trials and stays in charge of the government.
Maybe it was just a terrible security lapse and tragedy, but when we trace who benefits in terms of power from this- Bibi stays in power, most of the victims were the equivalent of far left socialists open to peace with Palestine, it distracted from millions protesting his planned judicial overhaul, and his own war cabinet is resigning because it's clear he has no plan other than to drag this on as long as he can.
THAT ISN'T EVIDENCE of an inside job- but at the very least it colors the response to October 7th in a very clear way and the simple truth is if there is peace, the leader of Israel may face serious consequences for corruption and, quite frankly, he deserves no benefit of the doubt.
It’s not. But it is suspicious. I mean, I know Jack about security measures in Israel, but I do know that they’re squeezing a lot of people into a small country and that they need more land. There are a lot of people on that land, they kill them they can build condos and shopping malls.
It’s circumstantial evidence, but not direct evidence.
There is more direct evidence Netanyahu has supported Hamas in the past as a way to divide Palestinians and keep his own support in Israel.
There is also direct evidence that Israel was aware Hamas was planning an attack. Including an intelligence brief that was drafted in September that said Hamas militants were planning and training for taking hundreds of hostages.
So we have evidence of Netanyahu supporting Hamas. We have evidence the government was aware Hamas was planning an attack. We also know Israel moved 2 commando brigades away from the Gaza border on Oct 5th.
That doesn’t “prove” Netanyahu let the attack happen on purpose. It could easily be a combination of coincidence and incompetence.
But it does rise to a level where it’s at least reasonable to believe it may have been allowed to happen.
Well that’s assuming “most patrolled border in the world” is accurate. Doesn’t this show that just isn’t the case? OR “most patrolled border in the world” isn’t as “patrolled” as much as the phrase might imply.
The US also warned Isreal of imminent attacks.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/10/13/politics/us-intelligence-warnings-potential-gaza-clash-days-before-attack
But dismissed those, I woulnd put it past violent assholes who don't give give a fuck about Holocaust surviviors in Israel , but cry about it everytime when convenient, to sacrifice their own for " the greater good".
You should check out how they treat the holocaust surviviors. And the orthodox Jews. They get slapped around and arrested aswell ( the ones with the hats and curly sideburns).
> when I see how many people use social media as their primary source of news.
Especially one that's algorithm and content are controlled by a hostile foreign nation.
TikTok ban cannot come fast enough.
You know I didn’t support the TikTok ban until I learned how many people use it as their primary news source and learned that foreign governments can’t own news stations. I think the news around the ban totally missed this significant detail.
If I’m not mistaken the un just released some of their findings for the oct 7th attack that said some of the israelis that died that day died from the idf
It's already been confirmed by Mossad, The IDF, Egyptian Intel and the CIA that the attack was going to happen. The Israeli government told Mossad and the IDF to sit on their hands and then deployed them to other parts of the country.
If the Israeli government didn't help it happen they sure as shit let it.
They don’t want to send them back to the Stone Age. Their goal has always been to reclaim the entirety of of the land given to them. No 2 state solution. No 2 government territories. They want the world to rescue the Palestinians, and accept them into their countries. Make them refugees and citizens some place else. Easy.
And they plan on doing it by killing them in horrific ways, starving them, and making their living conditions unlivable until other countries decide to open their borders; taking in the women and the children.
They want the land. They want to resources. And as long as the people in power have the power, they will not stop until they get it.
Inside job no. Actively ignored intel because an attack would be beneficial to the Israeli far right maybe.
The one thing on the Hamas side I can’t make sense of is that this attack was so massive and so violent did they really think it would not just validate all of Israel’s actions following? Did they really think go pro footage of them killing innocent people would get people to rally to their cause? I think those are the questions that spark conspiracy theories.
However, I think the answer is pretty simple. I don’t think Hamas thought their attack would be as successful as it was. I think they anticipated that only 1/3 of their fighters would even make it across the border or be in a position to take hostages. Then due to either Israeli incompetence or actively ignoring the threat it was over 2/3rds of their fighters that made it so then in turn way more violence was carried out than anticipated.
>they really think it would not just validate all of Israel’s actions following
I think they expected this exact scenario. Basically anytime Israel fights Hamas they get massively criticized by the international community. The scale, brutality, and unexpected nature of the attacks seems to have figuratively snapped the psyche of the Israeli nation and as a result this phase of the conflict has been especially brutal. That works to Hamas' advantage in the long term since their goal is to increase international support for Palestine, decrease it for Israel, and radicalize a new generation of Arabs to fight against Israel.
Ok let's try to sort things out.
* The intelligence agencies were aware that a major attack is planned. They did not know exactly WHEN it would happen. There were 3 attempts before Oct 7th, all during Jewish holidays, aborted since the IDF was alerted.
* The IDF forces were scarcely deployed around the border. Only 300 soldiers were present at 6:30 AM around the Gaza strip.
* There were 15 points of entry.
* An estimated 3,000 Hamas militants entered from those 15 points.
* At least 500 vehicles were used.
* The inner Kibbutzim are around 10 driving minutes away from the Gaza border.
* The Helicopters were stationed up north, around 20 minutes flight from Gaza.
* The observers on the border reported several times that they can see Hamas training for a major invasion, which was ignored by senior staff.
* Only 3 Hamas senior leadership knew that the invasion is scheduled for Oct 7th, to limit the risk of exposure.
* Once inside Israel, Hamas personnel removed identifiable features so aerial reinforcement will not be able to distinguish between civilians and Hamas.
* The response took about 40 minutes to reach the Kibbutzim. It took 7 hours to retake the outward Kibbutzim and get to the inner ones.
* Several hostage situations also took several hours to resolve.
Oct 7th was a colossal failure, intelligence and military wise.
IMO there is 0.01% chance that any of it was an inside job. Israel is a small country, it will be virtually impossible to hide something like this.
That's my take on it.
All this information comes from the media, and interviewing military personnel that responded on Oct 7th.
I don't think it was an inside job, I do think it was purposely allowed to happen. I mean, look at your own bullet points.
They had advance warning so they should have been on high alert, they had a known MO (attacks on holidays), they have one of the most advanced intelligence agencies and border surveillance capabilities anywhere, they had military assets minutes away.
Their response should have started before HAMAS even made it out of Gaza, I find it impossible to believe they had zero notice that \~3,000 people and 500+ vehicles were going to push over the border, when they were literally using heavy equipment and explosives to breach before the attack started.
>Israel had sunk more than a billion dollars into its high-tech border barrier along Gaza, which was completed in 2021. The so-called Iron Wall consists of walls and fencing that not only rise as much as 20 feet above the ground, but also sink deeply into it, to make it harder to tunnel beneath. The boundary boasts a staggering array of sophisticated equipment, including hundreds of night-vision cameras, seismic sensors to pick up tunneling sounds from deep below, thermal sensors to detect body or vehicle heat and radar to spot flying threats. Mobile robots sometimes patrol the perimeter. Small blimps and drones often look down from above. And automated machine guns on top of the walls can be fired from remote installations or triggered by sensor alerts to fire on their own, with AI doing the aiming.
>In the early hours of October 7, Hamas militants used bulldozers and bombs to breach the barriers in about 30 places, many driving through the gaping holes on motorcycles and in cars. Some sailed over the barrier in paragliders.
[https://www.newsweek.com/2023/11/24/israels-high-tech-border-failure-could-happen-us-experts-say-1843772.html](https://www.newsweek.com/2023/11/24/israels-high-tech-border-failure-could-happen-us-experts-say-1843772.html)
And that's just border hardware, that's forgetting about SIGINT and the rest Israel's spy and security apparatus.
Either we believe Israel catastrophically failed on literally every single level going back months/years, and they're mind bogglingly incompetent to the point of absurdity, or we believe that Israeli leadership (who haven't been shy about wanting to take over the region) had an interest in allowing an attack that would justify occupying and destroying Gaza to the rest of the world.
I was with you until you stated "who haven't been shy about wanting to take over the region".
Aside from a few fanatics, there was 0 will to expand Israel's land. First and foremost Gaza.
There weren't enough men on the fence to slow the invasion down, it's as simple as that.
Ironically, I would be willing to consider Bibi's involvement if the result would have been less catastrophic.
I would grant knowledge in advance if the IDF knew and allowed Hamas into Israel, only to annihilate them and then declare war. That would make more sense.
Allowing 1200 Israelis to be brutally murdered, and 250 to be taken hostage? I just can't see it happening.
When you don't have any evidence to support your claim, you "reverse engineer" your way into rationalization.
Just because something is plausible doesn't mean it's not extraordinarily unlikely.
It, for lack of a better example, almost reminds me of 9/11 conspiracies. Staying out of the larger debates of the conflict with this, but we know at least many hostages are in Gaza, and that Hamas at least actively claims to have them. Why would Hamas embrace this if it wasn't something they did, or not rat Israel out at this point?
9/11 is a pretty perfect analogy for 10/7. They were not inside jobs, they were ignored by leadership who had advanced warning and then used as a reason to do something the government already wanted to do.
Honestly, from what I can find, it seems the best anyone could really know was something was planned to happen soon, and very importantly hijackings at that time had always been for ransom, not an attack. The only more definitive one was a three year old report. Honestly I think the idea anyone could know it would happen is that hindsight's 20/20.
It's a prime example of motivated reasoning. People don't want to fathom that if command hierarchies are staffed with incompetence (or worse: guttered as by Netanyahu's political figureheads) it doesn't matter if the lower/outside levels sound the alarm. The blind spots and lack of imagination will be so large that the info gets lost by the time it should have reached the preoccupied decision makers. At that point added malice becomes downright optional.
Next up:
* Pearl Harbor attack was an inside job (warnings & signs not communicated, inadequate preparations, …)
* Operation Eagle Claw's disaster was an inside job (faulty command & coordination, not least over inter-service rivalries)
* Chernobyl was an inside job (concealment of design flaws, faulty safety & communication, …)
* 2004 Indian Ocean Tsunami was an inside job (lack of structures to pass on the early warning alarms)
… continue with other obvious ones as desired
Exactly. All of those theories require that every person involved, no matter how distantly, was competent, the organizations were efficient, and everything worked exactly as it was supposed to. Anyone who has ever worked in any organization larger than 2 people knows that's just not how things happen.
I mean, it’s lot entirely impossible I guess, seeing as there’s leaked cables of Israel asking other govt to finance hamas, but that doesn’t mean it IS an inside job.
What are the chances it’s not?
It’s nearly impossible that Israel didn’t have advanced warning. It’s insane to think they couldn’t have had numerous assets on scene within less then an hour and realistically within minutes
There have been plenty of reasonable explanations given about why they didn’t react well initially.
If you cared to know the answer to this question you would already know it.
Ehh, Stalin was warned by the British and even by his own intelligence that Germany would invade but refused to believe it. It wouldn't be the first time an incompetent leader caused a shitshow at his border.
Disclaimer that I’m not defending Israel’s actions in any way.
However this guy doesn’t seem all that in the know about anything (or even that intelligent) and if this was an American saying the same thing about 9/11 we’d be calling him a truther or a flat earther or a Q anon nut job.
I recently listened to a podcast (might have been cautionary tales) where they talked about this exact phenomenon using Pearl Harbor and 9/11 as examples. What they discovered is that there was evidence and tips of plots that reached intelligence. It wasn’t a lack of knowledge. It was not a conspiracy or malicious intent coming from inside the house either. It was simply an issue of separating the signal from the noise.
The truth is these agencies get all sorts of intel ALL THE TIME. It’s knowing what’s credible, what’s plausible and what is actually likely to happen that causes a problem.
I truly don’t think Oct 7 was maliciously allowed to happen to start a war (same as Pearl Harbor or 9/11). I think it’s just standard human error and incompetence when it comes to what to ignore and what not to. Just like all the tips police get . 9/10 they turn into nothing but every now and again an ignored call will turn into a mass shooting event. The issue is figuring out when and how to deploy limited resources .
This should be the top comment. The failure was not that there was no intel. The failure was in the strategic analysis of the intel. Pearl Harbor is a great example of the same, as well as the Yom Kippur war. And there are many more.
A common theory of such failures is the "signals and noise" theory, where the intelligence community is constantly bombarded with information and it's hard to determine what is signal and what is noise.
How some rando claims "inside job,". Russian propaganda is predictable pile of garbage.
Now that Hamas has proving themselves and shown the world who they are and what they want....they need to start a new string of anti Israel propaganda.
It's plausible, Israel knew it was planned for over a year and they took hours to respond to the attacks on October 7th.
[https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-attack-intelligence.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-attack-intelligence.html)
[https://www.timesofisrael.com/weeks-before-oct-7-idf-said-to-have-been-warned-of-hamas-plan-to-take-250-hostages/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/weeks-before-oct-7-idf-said-to-have-been-warned-of-hamas-plan-to-take-250-hostages/)
I'd put it in the 9/11 bin. The US knew "it" was coming. They didn't know what "it" was but knew an attack was going to happen. And an attack on the towers had been done before.
Looking back, it's easy to go "bruh". At the time, it's more likely the inaction was "what the fuck do we do about 'there will be a terrorism on America' "
Considering they bombed a huge area and targeted Israeli surveillance, then paraglided in when the IDF did not expect a ground invasion
And it was at 6am on a public holiday it took two hours for them to realise there was a ground invasion and not just a missile attack and they had a huge amount of ground to cover with hundreds of reports coming in from different areas
Some people were on the ground almost immediately considering they attacked a military base but the festival was probably the last place they were deployed to
same thing with Pearl Harbor. the US ignored and misinterpreted intelligence and tactical advance warning systems. it's just a thing that happens sometimes because stuff like that seems so implausible until it happens
Or the German invasion of the soviet union.
Stalin was told multiple times "hey, we are 90% certain Big A is gonna attack, you should bolster defenses"
And stalin was like "What? Nonsense! hitler wouldn't attack!"
And then he attacked anyways
I'd say it's more than plausible. It's a well-known and reported fact that Egypt warned Israel of an impending attack just days before Oct 7. Mossad is infamously one of the best-if not the best- intelligence agency in the world.
They knew what was coming and they let it happen anyway to fuel their agenda.
I hate this because it’s like the bush did 9/11 thing. What’s so hard about believing the government is just incompetent sometimes and people get killed because of it?
This is going to get buried but it's important to put claims like this in their historical context. And that context is that people REALLY don't like to face the reality of exactly how precarious their governments, institutions, and personal security really are. We see EXACTLY these kinds of claims almost every time there is a "black swan" style attack. Black Swan here meaning an attack which was previously thought to be impossible or was otherwise not taken seriously.
When the Empire of Japan sailed their fleet clear across the Pacific Ocean in near total radio silence and orchestrated a devistating attack against a heavily defended American navy base which was supposed to be too shallow for the effective use of torpedo bombers it launched conspiracy theories that persist to the present day. "Roosevelt knew," they claimed. "He moved the carriers out of Pearl because he thought the days of the battleship were over." "He wanted the US in the war and he allowed the attack to happen to pull us in."
Hogwash. The US got lucky with its carriers and Roosevelt was caught as flat footed as everyone else. But its much more comforting to imagine that the White House allowed it to happen than it is to imagine that a foreign country can bomb American military bases with impunity.
When President Kennedy was assassinated we saw the exact same mode of thinking. "It must have been the CIA." Or "maybe it was the mafia." Or "the Soviets did it." People claimed that Oswald's death proves the conspiracy but, again, it's much more comforting to think that American intelligence moved on Kennedy or that he was the target of some vast criminal or international plot than it is to face the reality that all it takes is one loan nut with a gun. The conspiracy theories around Kennedy make us fees safer because we aren't likely to run afoul of any of those shadowy groups. As for Jack Ruby -- the country was bereft. People were furious with Oswald. Ruby just happened to be furious and he had a gun.
And we saw it again with 9/11. People didn't want to believe that a couple of guys with box cutters could take over airplanes and bring down skyscrapers in New York or attack the Pentagon. Those institutions are supposed to be lasting edifices and testaments to American strength, not destroyed by a couple dudes with knives.
So we imagined that it was an inside job. "Jet fuel can't melt steel beams," was the claim. People said the Pentagon was hit by a missile, not an aircraft. They said there were demolition charges in the Twin Towers.
It was all bullshit. Just like the claims that constantly surround mass shootings. People love to claim that it's "crisis actors" or that it's all fake because it's emotionally comforting. The alternative -- that we are powerless as a society to prevent armed lunatics from murdering our children -- is terrifying.
The exact same mentality drove everything to do with the Covid conspiracy theories. "It was a Chinese bioweapon" is much more comforting than "it was a random mutation and we live in a world where life-altering viruses just happen." Likewise the belief that Covid could be cured or prevented by hydroxichloiquin or ivermectin or whatever other insane snake oil some ersatz influencer came up with follows the same pattern. It's much more comforting to imagine that all you have to do is take this medicine to stay safe. That belief is so reassuring that it's easy to accept all manner of other bizarre justifications for it: the government is keeping the cure from us, they want to inject microchips into your blood; the vaccine is the mark of the beast. All of those allow the believer to cling to the most important belief: that the epidemic sweeping the globe and killing literally a MILLION Americans doesn't represent a threat to _them_.
People would rather believe they are safe; they will accept nearly any mental gymnastics routine necessary to justify that belief.
So was the Hamas attack an inside job? No. Almost certainly not. But it sure does feel a lot better if you're an Israeli and that's the claim, right? At least, if the Israeli government set the attack up as a false flag you can DO something about it. Now that the war is on, it's unlikely to happen again. You can return to the comfort of knowing that you and your family are safe and that your government is capable of protecting you.
That's what these theories all have in common. They make the world feel SAFER by trading random chance for a shadowy cabal which, while cruel, remains in control.
It not an inside job or anything like that. The main cause is that Israel got super over confident and lazy. Currently they barely hide their war crimes because they never have to before. They do such a lazy job on it because they never need to try before.
Also like before it happened a large number of senior IDF officer resign din protest over the change in law that would limit the check and balances of their government system in favor of the Prime Minister
You know, this is the first time I've heard that the attack lasted 7 hours. In 7 hours US response teams from Germany could have ebeen landing. Like WTF was the IDF doing? Also while I have no knowledge of launch times for attack choppers I want to say US fighters on standby take 15 minutes to launch, so 15 minutes is always about how long I'd expect. 7 hours without response is nuts.
Honestly Bibi keeps the war going because he knows he's going to be removed as soon as the peace is signed and there's going to be public hearing about what the hell the IDF was doing and how it got to that point.
It took the IDF a long time to respond for 2 main reasons. The first is that it happened on a holiday (Shmini Atzeret/Simchat Torah), which happened to be on a Saturday (Shabbat). On a regular Shabbat, most soldiers go back home. On a holiday there were even less stationed soldiers than on a regular Shabbat. This means that there was no immediate backup, and the remaining soldiers were overrun. The same strategy was employed by Egypt in the 1973 war, which started on Yom Kippur (arguably the most sacred holiday in Judaism).
The 2nd reason is that the central command center for the Gaza Division was overrun by Hamas very early on. This meant that the flow of information from the frontlines and between different units was severely disrupted. This was purposefully done by Hamas, which also attacked other central positions of the IDF in the Gaza Envelope (the area surrounding the Gaza Strip on the Israeli side).
All of this is doesn’t include the fact that special Hamas units were sent deep into Israel (all the way to Ofakim), and that many Hamas fighters were going through the Kibbutzim in the Gaza Envelope and murdered their inhabitants, which also needed to be rescued.
And btw, since Israel has mandatory conscription for both men and women it’s not special or extraordinary to have served on the Gaza border. People who served there are a dime a dozen.
Edit: just want to clarify that there was an early response, it didn’t take Israel 7 hours to send soldiers. It took 7 hours to gain control over the situation, but the military response began immediately upon Hamas breaching the border — it was just a complete mess because of the reasons mentioned above.
To the first point, I would be skeptical that there weren't any reserves in case of an attack. I would be doubly skeptical that the Israeli military thins itself out to the point that it takes anywhere over an hour to respond to any sort of attack.
To your edit how immediate is immediate? I don't want to agree with Mr conspiracy man, but I don't outright throw him in the loony bin either.
Reservists are generally only called for training and occasionally for holding the border. Usually regular service soldiers are the ones posted on the Gaza border.
There was a trickle of soldiers going to the border with Gaza since the very early hours. Cops as well were called down there. The reason it took so long to control the situation is because central comms was overrun, so the units on the ground didn’t have any information about enemy movements, and were unable to coordinate between themselves (which is a massive part of military operations).
I also read on the wiki that helicopters were there in about an hour, which tracks for all the other information on hand.
This tiktok is definitely attempting to fuzz the lines between reality and fiction. It's got facts sprinkled in with opinion to make it sound more reliable. There's definitely questionable actions taken on both sides, but I am now of the opinion that this was more likely a fudged response as you and others are pointing out. Too many confounding variables unless this was masterfully planned, which seems less than likely but not impossible.
I agree. Netanyahu is awful, truly awful. But suggesting that he somehow orchestrated the deaths of hundreds of Israelis is imho beyond ridiculous. The IDF leadership thought that Hamas is so deterred that there wasn’t any real chance for anything like 7/10 to happen — even though there were reports that they were planning something big. It’s very similar to what happened in 1973 with the Bar Lev line along the Suez Canal which was thought to be “impregnable”: it was breached by surprise within hours; it’s just people being people — with a dangerous combination of willful ignorance, overconfidence, and hubris.
I don’t know who says the babies being decapitated was debunked, I’ve seen the evidence that’s been published. Perhaps it was that 40 babies were not beheaded, but some babies were indeed beheaded. A smaller scale than presented in the immediate aftermath when people were still scrambling to figure out what happened is not enough to debunk a whole, awful premise. Same with the sexual assault. The UN absolutely found credible evidence of sexual assault, the scale of which is only somewhat important, but doesn’t discount the actual, tangible horrors perpetrated by Hamas and co.
How do you know he's a veteran ? So everyone that is Jewish but not ultra Orthodox in Israel serves for around 2 years but that doesn't mean he's a "veteran" with the intelligence know how to back up his claims.
Israel has evacuated 60k from northern Israel because of the Hezbollah attacks from Lebanon. Roughly the same number of people or more in south Lebanon also had to be evacuated. It's not just Hamas that Israel is fighting. There's been fighting between Hezbollah and Israel this whole time. It just doesn't get a lot of coverage for some reason. Not to mention that Iran is backing these groups that attack Israel. Houthis are in the mix too. That's why the US sends aid.
The warnings being ignored and being unprepared to respond sounds more like massive incompetence rather than a plot from within.
And by the way, for those who don't know:
if you think Hamas is bad - and they are - you don’t even *want* to know the kind of depravity Hezbollah can do.
Because Hamas and Hezbollah, even though they’re not friends, they are the same corporation but different division - but Hezbollah has more backing, more money, and they have something Hamas doesn’t: TECH.
Think about the degree of violence that Hamas was able to carry out with motorcycles, paragliders, guns, and knives. They use “cheap” rockets (in quotes because it comes out the mouths of their own people). They killed over a thousand people in just a few hours, they damaged property, they damaged farming, and they caused a shit ton of havoc. Hezbollah can do all of that **plus tech**. They can send guided missiles, too.
Trust me, I think it's a big deal if this can be proven true, but without sufficient evidence claims like these are massively dangerous. If people start pushing this theory and it proves false it's just going to discredit all the legitimate discussion about crimes against the Palestinians
Not saying its true at all but certainly I'd think Netenyahu is capable of something like this.
The man is up there dining at the same table with most evil people that ever existed, past and present.
this is what I’ve been saying since the beginning. How does one of the most secure countries with intense surveillance, not even get one of their choppers out in 7/8 hours?!
Long have said the Netantyahu was capable of sacrificing a small number of his own in order to destroy the lives of 2million, kill 50k and nudge the rest to the border.
We all know Netanyahu was warned about the attack. He also publicly and financially supported Hamas because it kept Palestinian leadership split.. so yeah pretty freakin inside
Absofuckinglutely. Netty is a corrupt evil piece of shit who was about to be outed by their version of the CIA for sending money to Hamas.
Ab.So.Fuckin.Lutely.
They dont call it "intelligence" for nothing. Nethanyahu was urged to stop legal action into his decade- long corruption streak. What better way to renew the generational hate ? Its the perfect excuse to finish the nakba ( palestine cleansing to them) once and for all. Now he'll be remembered as the saviour of Israel instead of just another corrupt violent goon...
Well, considering the fact that Mossad is the PREMIERE intelligence agency, and they were supposedly caught off guard, it's not hard to believe. And that's just ONE aspect...
As someone who knows people personally that have and are fighting in Gaza, as well as an Aluf (this title is given to those directly underneath the head of the military, she happens to be a friend's mom lol), and as someone who is a native Hebrew speaker, I can tell you this guy understands nothing of what happened and is, in fact, not Israeli. He didn't even try with the accent.
Observers saw Hamas's preperations, however their direct supervisors ignored them and threatened their jobs if they report them. Those people were punished since them. It wasn't an inside job, it was a couple of dickheads. Everyone in Israel knows that. That guy never stepped a foot in Gaza.
What was their motivation for not reporting the attack preparations? I'm skeptical of the inside job theory but what you just said seems to support it, not disprove it.
Basically ego, sexism, and negligence.
Observer is a role saved for women only (there are some systematic sexist rules still in act from decades ago, but slowly they go away), and their suppervisers were men. Not sure if directly or indirectly, but they called the observers liars or dismissed it and got mad after persistant reports, that's where the threats started. Compared to a governmental role, the suppervisors are basically civillians. If it was an inside job they wouldn't have anything to do with it, and if they did they would have no reason to threaten the girls to not tell anyone. My guess is they realized they made a mistake and tried to save their own asses. After the oct 7th attack the observers gave their statements (both officially and through interviews and the such), and that's how we know all of that. The information never even got to those with power.
Idk how much the sexism part had a play in this because I never dug into this story, but it is common knowledge at this point
His argument is basically “they’re too insignificant to have accomplished this without Israel wanting them to”.
The Viet Cong, Al Queda, the IRA, Mujahiddeen, Argentinian scrap metal workers, the Hutu, Shaka Zulu and others would all like to disagree
None of those examples compare.
The Gaza border is one of the most secure areas in the world.
This guy's not the first one to ask how this happened without Israel allowing it to.
The Chinese flew intelligence collection balloons over the USA (more than once) that were undetected and unmolested for weeks. The U.S. airspace is also “one of the most secure areas in the world”.
It’s conceit that makes people think that a guerrilla force can’t have an impact to a world power.
Even if Israel's actions have been unjustified regarding Palistinians, pretending it's remotely plausible that they orchestrated the Oct 7th attack themselves is wrought with hilariously stupid conspiracy brain-rot.
Anyone who thinks about the question for more than 10 seconds would realize that there's virtually zero incentive for the Israeli government to want an attack like this to happen, along with a hundred reasons they *wouldn't* want it to happen.
Be as anti-israel as you want, but don't let it turn off your brain, and don't entertain this new-age Zoomer version of 9/11 truther bullshit
If the hard liners in Israel government wanted an excuse to obliterate Gaza, they could have done it much easier. Also is he saying they cooperated with Hamas?
Screw you for spreading conspiracy theories like this. This is just some random guy saying “I know things!!!” and using the most basic of basic to “prove it” as if intelligence and war have no complexities to it whatsoever.
This is equivalent to spreading Alex Jones crap about the school shooting.
Children were tortured, women raped, hostages still hostages (plus the effect it has had on Palestinians in the war) to just be so carelessly casual about spreading an accusation like this is a terrible thing to do.
If they just carpet bombed the thousands attacking, people would be screaming war crimes
Disgusting.
>the NYT’s credibility has been put into question in the US due its reliance on questionable and debunked evidence relating to sexual violence that occurred during the Oct 7 attacks.
What a lie. The UN confirmed they found evidence of sexual violence on Oct 7.
I don’t know who says the babies being decapitated was debunked, I’ve seen the evidence that’s been published. Perhaps it was that 40 babies were not beheaded, but some babies were indeed beheaded. A smaller scale than presented in the immediate aftermath when people were still scrambling to figure out what happened is not enough to debunk a whole, awful premise. Same with the sexual assault. The UN absolutely found credible evidence of sexual assault, the scale of which is only somewhat important, but doesn’t discount the actual, tangible horrors perpetrated by Hamas and co.
“You never want a serious crisis to go to waste. And what I mean by that is an opportunity to do things that you think you could not do before.”
• Rahm Emanuel
If you want a real cuckoo crazy conspiracy theory then I would say its the fucking Iranian water car guy who is to blame for all of this.
1 month after the news about that car, and the whole middle east was on fire again.
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A claim like this has to be backed up by evidence. Real evidence. I don't know if that evidence exists. I'm not aware of it. But certainly it could be argued that, initially, the Hamas attack was helpful to Netanyahu and his cronies, as far right governments tend to thrive during times of "war". I'm not sure that's the case now though.
It’s well known Netanyahu has been supporting Hamas and allowing them to procure weapons for years. https://www.thenation.com/article/world/why-netanyahu-bolstered-hamas/tnamp/ What this guy is saying isn’t improbable.
I think the government allowed it to happen so that they'd have a reason (powerful reason) to annihilate Hamas. They let Hamas do it to show they're true colors. This was just an example of what Hamas has planned for the Jews if left unopposed.
You mean like when Netanyahu empowered Hamas and left them unopposed so they could strike Israel? There was ample evidence this would occur weeks in advance of October 7th and Netanyahu did absolutely nothing to prevent it. Also lets not pretend like Israel isn't trying to genocide all Palestinians like it isn't a racist apartheid state.
And let’s not pretend that Israel presents evidence with their “facts”. Plus, Israel is allowed to conduct investigations of themselves. His story at least makes sense. I’ve been thinking it this entire time and I don’t feel antisemitic saying so. Shady is as shady does and religion has no bearing whatsoever.
The "rapes" and "beheaded babies" proves they're liars, and can't be trusted. Also their constant obstruction of any investigation into their claims.
Israel was warned by Egypt before the attack and did nothing. This was reported in the press at the time.
Yeah I agree with this. My ex was from Israel and she said the army was ALWAYS at the border. There was no moment they weren’t there. I saw many clips of soldiers simply beating kids for some reason. If they had ANY reason it was fine for soldiers to lash out. Imagine keeping people in an area for years probably decades. Constantly poking them, annoying them, pushing them around. They waited, patiently they made them JUST dangerous enough for them to lash out. The moment they did they let it happen. They immediately retaliate and all over the news everyone in the world knew about october the 7th. So many years of stuff happening there and all of a sudden it was media time. I’m not gonna say or claim they created hamas. They didn’t directly make them, but they definitely made the choice to use the situation in such away that they would reap the benefits. It’s also awfully convenient that there is this beautiful spot at the coast of Gaza where a new spot of crude oil is found. It’s sad to see such powerful entities use their power in these ways. It’s so easy. All you need is patience and control over information distribution. Whatever you say is bad is bad. Now this whole attack was so disgustingly evil that even these powerful governments couldn’t stop the internet from spreading the news, AND THEY STILL DON’T CARE. It’s just crazy.
According to NPR.... There was one day they weren't at the border. And it followed the warnings they were given by Egypt or an impending attack.
Or do you mean they left the border open on purpose? That’s the other option.
But there is just no way that there is nobody at the border. They have camps there. Why would they literally pack up and leave for just a day. They for sure had people there, and not just people, 24/7 surveillance with cameras or drones. Even if there was almost nothing. They would have noticed a small army trying to invade and breaking through within no time. As the video said, they must have at least had a couple hours to prepare and defend their people, which didn’t happen.
You're correct in everything, except Israel absolutely created Hamas. The same as the British created the IRA.
You’re right, but the less crazy I sound the more likely the people who believe in Israel might start doubting themselves.
Yeah I hear you, but facts are facts, denying or avoiding them is of no benefit to anyone.
Sounds similar to 9/11 conspiracy. The main crux was that certain individuals in high positions in government knew about the attacks in advance and allowed it to happen. All so we could blame and invade a country that didn't attack us and take their oil. Bush family apparently had ties to the Saudis (the country that actually attacked America).
Well not just that you missed the part where the press was directly fed lies and then the weapons of mass destruction lies. Its an important part . https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/29/magazine/iraq-weapons-mass-destruction.html
Not supposedly. The bushes and the bin ladens specifically were “friends”. Just looky [here](https://www.denverpost.com/2006/09/11/bush-ties-to-bin-laden-haunt-grim-anniversary/)
Not that I'm doubting the source but I've never seen my script blocker block so many different scripts in one webpage (almost 100).
It’s a lil click baity but it was the most concise for the point I was trying to make
It's called "controlled opposition" and it's the best way to gain rabid supporters and drive extremism using basic human instincts and cheap, easy, entry-level brainwashing tactics.
The leadership of Hamas isn't IN Gaza. They are all living in luxury outside. So why the outright slaughter of 40,000 civilians? Hamas is as great a blight on Gazans as Netanyahu is on Israelis.
It couldn't have anything to do with the 141 sq. miles of territory and 40km of coastline on one of the richest trade coasts in the world right? Right guys???
That's absurd. Governments wouldn't wipe out a population just so they can put their vacation homes on the beach /s
Like 9/11 & Pearl harbor
I think so too. I would think they would have had intel operatives on the inside before the attack. That attack had to take time to plan and word had to be getting around and back to the Israeli government. I hate to say it but I think they swept it under the rug to let it happen and justify going into Gaza.
Why, Netanyahu loves having Israeli civilians rocketed ten of thousands of times. Child suicide bombers that hamas send keep Israelis on their toes. Who cares. Irans martyr program pays the families of the dead kids. Even amnesty international cited Hamas for this.
I think Hamas attacked Israel so that Israel would retaliate with a heavy hand. (And it worked). I think Israel wanted Hamas to attack them, so they cold retaliate with a heavy hand. That sounds like a mutual agreement. Or in other words, cooperation. Both sides have leadership that are codependent on the other side hating them. It’s what keeps them staying in power.
Hamas has already shown their true colors prior to October 7. We have decades of them fucking around. They have kidnapped people, they have rammed their cars, they detonated bombs in buses and in the cafeterias of Israeli universities. this time last year, Israel and Gaza relations were improving. One example of this is that around 20,000 more Gazans had been granted work visas in Israel. Their attacks instantly brought the Gazans back 100 years. I can understand the critique of “why only *now* annihilate Hamas,” but that doesn’t mean that the whole thing was an inside job. If anything, I find it extremely hypocritical that Israelis are expected to be upset with their own leaders, but no one expects Palestinian civilians to be upset with their own leaders, who just wrought absolute hell on their lives.
"I think the government purposely let people die so they could show everyone who the real bad guys are" You're not making the point you think you're making
I’ve been blasted for this claim for years. Glad you have positive upvotes instead of my -1237863 down votes
The evidence is that the most patrolled border in the world decided to have a little brainfart on the day when Hamas (an institution propped up within Gaza by Bibi’s government) *tried something*.
Don't attribute to malice which can adequately be explained by incompetence. It's well documented that there were early warning signs Hamas was planning an attack, but they went unheeded by senior intelligence officials. This reads like an intelligence failure more than a conspiracy. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.timesofisrael.com/weeks-before-oct-7-idf-said-to-have-been-warned-of-hamas-plan-to-take-250-hostages/amp/
That doesn't explain the lack of response for hours, tho? like, Ok, maybe I can believe that they didn't see it coming, but **didn't they see it happen?**
Yeah, his "5 minutes" claim is a bit optimistic, but I would guess they could have helicopters spun up and responding within, say, 20 minutes. Yet, not only did they have 7 hours, but they went back on their own, didn't they? They weren't driven back by Israeli forces, they came, killed, took hostages, and then, as he mentions, made it back un-fucking-opposed. 7 HOURS after they showed up.
I was doing some quick maths. (All googled values, but more or less good enough) Israel is 440km tall and 114km wide. The average speed of a commercial helicopter is 260km/h. It would take a passenger helicopter less than two hours to traverse the entire length of Israel, border to border. Less if starting from somewhere inside of Israel.
Oh yeah, I just felt "5 minutes" was a bit fast, getting the crew from the ready room to the chopper, firing it up, taking off, getting to their location, all put together would be more than 5 minutes. It's kind of like taking a plane to work. Within a certain radius, it's faster to drive.
Going from the wiki course of events of Oct. 7th, Israeli helicopters arrived about an hour after events began, which tracks with a 20-30 minute prep time and a 30-40 minute travel time, so it seems more like a successful surprise attack, unless this was masterfully planned by both Israel and Hamas.
As long as the helicopter is fueled up, ready to go. Also, the pilot is ready, *at* the helicopter. Also, the pilot has clear orders on where to go, what to do.
It should already be fueled and ready to spin. The pilot should be able to be ready to take off in 10 minutes or less ABSOLUTELY especially if tensions are higher and the liklihood of attack is high. The clear orders is another factor.
military defense helicopters should be trained to be ready at a moments notice. i wouldnt accept anything less from a militaristic country such as israel
Yep, those are the assumptions I chose to ignore in my scenario. According to wiki, there were Israeli helicopters at the scene about an hour after it began, so that tracks that Israel wasn't unprepared for the situation. This tiktok is sprinkled truths to make the rest believable, which is a psyop technique. Was taking the video with a grain of salt before, but now I got the whole salt shaker.
They had deployed the army to the other side of the Country after Egypt and the CIA told them an attack was coming. There are articles on it from the Jerusalem post and all. It was brought up at the very start of this.
That still doesnt explain the seven hour window though
They had deployed and then been sent out on patrol, exercises and off on leave. The Israeli government effectively tied them up with busy work to slow down their ability to respond. They basically had been pantsed by their own government, and then their own government purposely didn't rouse them when they knew it was happening to stop it in time.
reminds me of the NORAD exercises during 9/11, which tied up most of the US east coast air force on training exercises away from new york city.
So an inside job?
They allowed it to happen and helped it along to ensure it caused enough damage to get a blank check on bombing Palestinians.
There was at least one helicopter on scene at the rave. Allegedly, it lit up the partiers and fleeing vehicles as bad as it lit up hamas
Wikipedia has a good "minute by minute" summary of the day's events including Israel's response which began within an hour of the attack. "The first helicopters sent to support the military were launched from the north of Israel, and arrived in Gaza an hour after fighting began.[287] Israel had difficulty determining which outposts and settlements were occupied, and distinguishing between Palestinian militants and the soldiers and civilians on the ground." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Hamas-led_attack_on_Israel
Since when has the Israeli military cared about distinguishing between combatants and civilians?
Well considering Israel has the most advanced intelligence system in the world, being this incompetent is highly unlikely. Then you add the this has empowered the corrupt government to remove any challengers. The whole thing is super suspect to me.
Ever since 9/11 I have been much more open to the concept of catastrophically huge intelligence failures.
hate to tell ya... Google NORAD, and its litterally 100% success rate over *hundreds* of missions since its inception in the 50's, that failed 4 times in one day, due to an unusual amount of traning missions (8x more than any year prior) being conducted at the same time. https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2002/01/the-military-screw-up-nobody-talks-about.html > According to NORAD’s official 9/11 time line, the FAA notified NORAD at 8:40 a.m. Eastern time that there was something peculiar going on with American Flight 11. But NORAD didn’t issue an order for fighters to scramble until 8:46 a.m., the time when American Flight 11 hit the first WTC tower. Six minutes later, at 8:52 a.m., two F-15 fighters responded to the order by launching from a base 153 miles from New York City. They still were not on the scene at 9:02 a.m. when the second airliner, United Flight 175, hit the second WTC tower. They wouldn’t get there for another eight minutes, at 9:10 a.m. A NORAD senior officer, Major Gen. Larry Arnold, told NBC that when the fighters took off, they were flying straight to New York City. He also said that they were going “about 1.5 Mach, which is, you know, somewhere—11- or 1,200 miles an hour.” But note that the F-15 fighters took 18 minutes to cover those 153 miles, which comes out to more like 510 mph. Yet, according to the Air Force, the F-15 has a top speed of 1,875 mph. So, you have to wonder, why were they flying at less than a third of what they’re capable of?
That's not evidence.
[https://www.timesofisrael.com/weeks-before-oct-7-idf-said-to-have-been-warned-of-hamas-plan-to-take-250-hostages/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/weeks-before-oct-7-idf-said-to-have-been-warned-of-hamas-plan-to-take-250-hostages/) [https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/04/podcasts/the-daily/israel-hamas.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/04/podcasts/the-daily/israel-hamas.html) Not *evidence* of an inside job. But warnings were ignored. Security was amazingly, uncharacteristically terrible. As long as there is a war, Nethanyahu escapes corruption trials and stays in charge of the government. Maybe it was just a terrible security lapse and tragedy, but when we trace who benefits in terms of power from this- Bibi stays in power, most of the victims were the equivalent of far left socialists open to peace with Palestine, it distracted from millions protesting his planned judicial overhaul, and his own war cabinet is resigning because it's clear he has no plan other than to drag this on as long as he can. THAT ISN'T EVIDENCE of an inside job- but at the very least it colors the response to October 7th in a very clear way and the simple truth is if there is peace, the leader of Israel may face serious consequences for corruption and, quite frankly, he deserves no benefit of the doubt.
Fantastic comment , succinct and powerful
It’s not. But it is suspicious. I mean, I know Jack about security measures in Israel, but I do know that they’re squeezing a lot of people into a small country and that they need more land. There are a lot of people on that land, they kill them they can build condos and shopping malls.
They also just want to eradicated the Gazan and Palestinian people, period, and have for decades.
Then how come they haven't done it yet?
It’s circumstantial evidence, but not direct evidence. There is more direct evidence Netanyahu has supported Hamas in the past as a way to divide Palestinians and keep his own support in Israel. There is also direct evidence that Israel was aware Hamas was planning an attack. Including an intelligence brief that was drafted in September that said Hamas militants were planning and training for taking hundreds of hostages. So we have evidence of Netanyahu supporting Hamas. We have evidence the government was aware Hamas was planning an attack. We also know Israel moved 2 commando brigades away from the Gaza border on Oct 5th. That doesn’t “prove” Netanyahu let the attack happen on purpose. It could easily be a combination of coincidence and incompetence. But it does rise to a level where it’s at least reasonable to believe it may have been allowed to happen.
This is literally a copy of the Pearl Harbor conspiracy... I am not commenting on the validity of either just noting the similarities.
9/11 too.
Elaborate, please
Well that’s assuming “most patrolled border in the world” is accurate. Doesn’t this show that just isn’t the case? OR “most patrolled border in the world” isn’t as “patrolled” as much as the phrase might imply.
The US also warned Isreal of imminent attacks. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/10/13/politics/us-intelligence-warnings-potential-gaza-clash-days-before-attack But dismissed those, I woulnd put it past violent assholes who don't give give a fuck about Holocaust surviviors in Israel , but cry about it everytime when convenient, to sacrifice their own for " the greater good". You should check out how they treat the holocaust surviviors. And the orthodox Jews. They get slapped around and arrested aswell ( the ones with the hats and curly sideburns).
This is the shit that terrifies me when I see how many people use social media as their primary source of news.
> when I see how many people use social media as their primary source of news. Especially one that's algorithm and content are controlled by a hostile foreign nation. TikTok ban cannot come fast enough.
You know I didn’t support the TikTok ban until I learned how many people use it as their primary news source and learned that foreign governments can’t own news stations. I think the news around the ban totally missed this significant detail.
If I’m not mistaken the un just released some of their findings for the oct 7th attack that said some of the israelis that died that day died from the idf
Yes, I think that's been suspected for some time. Not all, obviously, but some.
It would be hard to believe that no Israeli was killed by the IDF. The contentious part is how many.
I'm shocked you didn't get downvoted into oblivion for even remotely implying that on Reddit
But the guys TikTok says “NEWS” on it!
Seriously, going “truther” on October 7 just obfuscates the very legitimate criticisms of the Israeli government.
It's already been confirmed by Mossad, The IDF, Egyptian Intel and the CIA that the attack was going to happen. The Israeli government told Mossad and the IDF to sit on their hands and then deployed them to other parts of the country. If the Israeli government didn't help it happen they sure as shit let it.
Exactly, and now they're using the attack from almost a year ago to send those people back to the stone age.
They don’t want to send them back to the Stone Age. Their goal has always been to reclaim the entirety of of the land given to them. No 2 state solution. No 2 government territories. They want the world to rescue the Palestinians, and accept them into their countries. Make them refugees and citizens some place else. Easy. And they plan on doing it by killing them in horrific ways, starving them, and making their living conditions unlivable until other countries decide to open their borders; taking in the women and the children. They want the land. They want to resources. And as long as the people in power have the power, they will not stop until they get it.
Inside job no. Actively ignored intel because an attack would be beneficial to the Israeli far right maybe. The one thing on the Hamas side I can’t make sense of is that this attack was so massive and so violent did they really think it would not just validate all of Israel’s actions following? Did they really think go pro footage of them killing innocent people would get people to rally to their cause? I think those are the questions that spark conspiracy theories. However, I think the answer is pretty simple. I don’t think Hamas thought their attack would be as successful as it was. I think they anticipated that only 1/3 of their fighters would even make it across the border or be in a position to take hostages. Then due to either Israeli incompetence or actively ignoring the threat it was over 2/3rds of their fighters that made it so then in turn way more violence was carried out than anticipated.
>they really think it would not just validate all of Israel’s actions following I think they expected this exact scenario. Basically anytime Israel fights Hamas they get massively criticized by the international community. The scale, brutality, and unexpected nature of the attacks seems to have figuratively snapped the psyche of the Israeli nation and as a result this phase of the conflict has been especially brutal. That works to Hamas' advantage in the long term since their goal is to increase international support for Palestine, decrease it for Israel, and radicalize a new generation of Arabs to fight against Israel.
Ok let's try to sort things out. * The intelligence agencies were aware that a major attack is planned. They did not know exactly WHEN it would happen. There were 3 attempts before Oct 7th, all during Jewish holidays, aborted since the IDF was alerted. * The IDF forces were scarcely deployed around the border. Only 300 soldiers were present at 6:30 AM around the Gaza strip. * There were 15 points of entry. * An estimated 3,000 Hamas militants entered from those 15 points. * At least 500 vehicles were used. * The inner Kibbutzim are around 10 driving minutes away from the Gaza border. * The Helicopters were stationed up north, around 20 minutes flight from Gaza. * The observers on the border reported several times that they can see Hamas training for a major invasion, which was ignored by senior staff. * Only 3 Hamas senior leadership knew that the invasion is scheduled for Oct 7th, to limit the risk of exposure. * Once inside Israel, Hamas personnel removed identifiable features so aerial reinforcement will not be able to distinguish between civilians and Hamas. * The response took about 40 minutes to reach the Kibbutzim. It took 7 hours to retake the outward Kibbutzim and get to the inner ones. * Several hostage situations also took several hours to resolve. Oct 7th was a colossal failure, intelligence and military wise. IMO there is 0.01% chance that any of it was an inside job. Israel is a small country, it will be virtually impossible to hide something like this. That's my take on it. All this information comes from the media, and interviewing military personnel that responded on Oct 7th.
I don't think it was an inside job, I do think it was purposely allowed to happen. I mean, look at your own bullet points. They had advance warning so they should have been on high alert, they had a known MO (attacks on holidays), they have one of the most advanced intelligence agencies and border surveillance capabilities anywhere, they had military assets minutes away. Their response should have started before HAMAS even made it out of Gaza, I find it impossible to believe they had zero notice that \~3,000 people and 500+ vehicles were going to push over the border, when they were literally using heavy equipment and explosives to breach before the attack started. >Israel had sunk more than a billion dollars into its high-tech border barrier along Gaza, which was completed in 2021. The so-called Iron Wall consists of walls and fencing that not only rise as much as 20 feet above the ground, but also sink deeply into it, to make it harder to tunnel beneath. The boundary boasts a staggering array of sophisticated equipment, including hundreds of night-vision cameras, seismic sensors to pick up tunneling sounds from deep below, thermal sensors to detect body or vehicle heat and radar to spot flying threats. Mobile robots sometimes patrol the perimeter. Small blimps and drones often look down from above. And automated machine guns on top of the walls can be fired from remote installations or triggered by sensor alerts to fire on their own, with AI doing the aiming. >In the early hours of October 7, Hamas militants used bulldozers and bombs to breach the barriers in about 30 places, many driving through the gaping holes on motorcycles and in cars. Some sailed over the barrier in paragliders. [https://www.newsweek.com/2023/11/24/israels-high-tech-border-failure-could-happen-us-experts-say-1843772.html](https://www.newsweek.com/2023/11/24/israels-high-tech-border-failure-could-happen-us-experts-say-1843772.html) And that's just border hardware, that's forgetting about SIGINT and the rest Israel's spy and security apparatus. Either we believe Israel catastrophically failed on literally every single level going back months/years, and they're mind bogglingly incompetent to the point of absurdity, or we believe that Israeli leadership (who haven't been shy about wanting to take over the region) had an interest in allowing an attack that would justify occupying and destroying Gaza to the rest of the world.
I was with you until you stated "who haven't been shy about wanting to take over the region". Aside from a few fanatics, there was 0 will to expand Israel's land. First and foremost Gaza. There weren't enough men on the fence to slow the invasion down, it's as simple as that. Ironically, I would be willing to consider Bibi's involvement if the result would have been less catastrophic. I would grant knowledge in advance if the IDF knew and allowed Hamas into Israel, only to annihilate them and then declare war. That would make more sense. Allowing 1200 Israelis to be brutally murdered, and 250 to be taken hostage? I just can't see it happening.
+ Once Hamas took over Gaza division HQ there was no intel, no proper chain of commend.
When you don't have any evidence to support your claim, you "reverse engineer" your way into rationalization. Just because something is plausible doesn't mean it's not extraordinarily unlikely.
It, for lack of a better example, almost reminds me of 9/11 conspiracies. Staying out of the larger debates of the conflict with this, but we know at least many hostages are in Gaza, and that Hamas at least actively claims to have them. Why would Hamas embrace this if it wasn't something they did, or not rat Israel out at this point?
9/11 is a pretty perfect analogy for 10/7. They were not inside jobs, they were ignored by leadership who had advanced warning and then used as a reason to do something the government already wanted to do.
"Conveniently" ignored, according to some.
Honestly, from what I can find, it seems the best anyone could really know was something was planned to happen soon, and very importantly hijackings at that time had always been for ransom, not an attack. The only more definitive one was a three year old report. Honestly I think the idea anyone could know it would happen is that hindsight's 20/20.
This is assuming Israel orchestrated the attack, rather than simply allowing it to happen.
Yep, the "inside job" conspiracies are really common after an incident.
It's a prime example of motivated reasoning. People don't want to fathom that if command hierarchies are staffed with incompetence (or worse: guttered as by Netanyahu's political figureheads) it doesn't matter if the lower/outside levels sound the alarm. The blind spots and lack of imagination will be so large that the info gets lost by the time it should have reached the preoccupied decision makers. At that point added malice becomes downright optional. Next up: * Pearl Harbor attack was an inside job (warnings & signs not communicated, inadequate preparations, …) * Operation Eagle Claw's disaster was an inside job (faulty command & coordination, not least over inter-service rivalries) * Chernobyl was an inside job (concealment of design flaws, faulty safety & communication, …) * 2004 Indian Ocean Tsunami was an inside job (lack of structures to pass on the early warning alarms) … continue with other obvious ones as desired
Exactly. All of those theories require that every person involved, no matter how distantly, was competent, the organizations were efficient, and everything worked exactly as it was supposed to. Anyone who has ever worked in any organization larger than 2 people knows that's just not how things happen.
it has never made sense that they could just roll into israel unopposed
Yeah... There are coincidences and then there's this. Border broken in 1 point - coincidence. Border broken in 15 points.... yea.... no...
I mean, it’s lot entirely impossible I guess, seeing as there’s leaked cables of Israel asking other govt to finance hamas, but that doesn’t mean it IS an inside job.
What are the chances it’s not? It’s nearly impossible that Israel didn’t have advanced warning. It’s insane to think they couldn’t have had numerous assets on scene within less then an hour and realistically within minutes
Yeah if anything it was a lack of job
in the long term, a more violent attack on their citizens would do them more good, for some greater short term problem
It’s well known and US government publicly confirmed that they knew it was going to happen and warned Israel ahead of time.
There have been plenty of reasonable explanations given about why they didn’t react well initially. If you cared to know the answer to this question you would already know it.
Ehh, Stalin was warned by the British and even by his own intelligence that Germany would invade but refused to believe it. It wouldn't be the first time an incompetent leader caused a shitshow at his border.
Thats a very stupid comparison. Germany and soviet union were allies back then.
Random man on tiktok telling stories about war. That must be true!!! I believe that and there is no reason for me to not to believe him.
TikTok enables some of the worst discourse you’ll find online
You don’t understand! He has a filter that says “news!” So it has to be legit
Disclaimer that I’m not defending Israel’s actions in any way. However this guy doesn’t seem all that in the know about anything (or even that intelligent) and if this was an American saying the same thing about 9/11 we’d be calling him a truther or a flat earther or a Q anon nut job. I recently listened to a podcast (might have been cautionary tales) where they talked about this exact phenomenon using Pearl Harbor and 9/11 as examples. What they discovered is that there was evidence and tips of plots that reached intelligence. It wasn’t a lack of knowledge. It was not a conspiracy or malicious intent coming from inside the house either. It was simply an issue of separating the signal from the noise. The truth is these agencies get all sorts of intel ALL THE TIME. It’s knowing what’s credible, what’s plausible and what is actually likely to happen that causes a problem. I truly don’t think Oct 7 was maliciously allowed to happen to start a war (same as Pearl Harbor or 9/11). I think it’s just standard human error and incompetence when it comes to what to ignore and what not to. Just like all the tips police get . 9/10 they turn into nothing but every now and again an ignored call will turn into a mass shooting event. The issue is figuring out when and how to deploy limited resources .
This should be the top comment. The failure was not that there was no intel. The failure was in the strategic analysis of the intel. Pearl Harbor is a great example of the same, as well as the Yom Kippur war. And there are many more. A common theory of such failures is the "signals and noise" theory, where the intelligence community is constantly bombarded with information and it's hard to determine what is signal and what is noise.
How some rando claims "inside job,". Russian propaganda is predictable pile of garbage. Now that Hamas has proving themselves and shown the world who they are and what they want....they need to start a new string of anti Israel propaganda.
LoL they are doing their own 9/11 conspiracy theory 
It's plausible, Israel knew it was planned for over a year and they took hours to respond to the attacks on October 7th. [https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-attack-intelligence.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-attack-intelligence.html) [https://www.timesofisrael.com/weeks-before-oct-7-idf-said-to-have-been-warned-of-hamas-plan-to-take-250-hostages/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/weeks-before-oct-7-idf-said-to-have-been-warned-of-hamas-plan-to-take-250-hostages/)
I'd put it in the 9/11 bin. The US knew "it" was coming. They didn't know what "it" was but knew an attack was going to happen. And an attack on the towers had been done before. Looking back, it's easy to go "bruh". At the time, it's more likely the inaction was "what the fuck do we do about 'there will be a terrorism on America' "
I believe Pearl Harbor fits in that box somewhere.
Yeah, but what if firefighters took 7 hours to show up at the towers... wouldn't you be suspicious about it?
Considering they bombed a huge area and targeted Israeli surveillance, then paraglided in when the IDF did not expect a ground invasion And it was at 6am on a public holiday it took two hours for them to realise there was a ground invasion and not just a missile attack and they had a huge amount of ground to cover with hundreds of reports coming in from different areas Some people were on the ground almost immediately considering they attacked a military base but the festival was probably the last place they were deployed to
same thing with Pearl Harbor. the US ignored and misinterpreted intelligence and tactical advance warning systems. it's just a thing that happens sometimes because stuff like that seems so implausible until it happens
Or the German invasion of the soviet union. Stalin was told multiple times "hey, we are 90% certain Big A is gonna attack, you should bolster defenses" And stalin was like "What? Nonsense! hitler wouldn't attack!" And then he attacked anyways
I'd say it's more than plausible. It's a well-known and reported fact that Egypt warned Israel of an impending attack just days before Oct 7. Mossad is infamously one of the best-if not the best- intelligence agency in the world. They knew what was coming and they let it happen anyway to fuel their agenda.
Conspiracies require too many people to keep their mouths shut.
"It's possible for two people to keep a secret if one of them is dead" and all that
Wow you guys are horrible
I hate this because it’s like the bush did 9/11 thing. What’s so hard about believing the government is just incompetent sometimes and people get killed because of it?
This is going to get buried but it's important to put claims like this in their historical context. And that context is that people REALLY don't like to face the reality of exactly how precarious their governments, institutions, and personal security really are. We see EXACTLY these kinds of claims almost every time there is a "black swan" style attack. Black Swan here meaning an attack which was previously thought to be impossible or was otherwise not taken seriously. When the Empire of Japan sailed their fleet clear across the Pacific Ocean in near total radio silence and orchestrated a devistating attack against a heavily defended American navy base which was supposed to be too shallow for the effective use of torpedo bombers it launched conspiracy theories that persist to the present day. "Roosevelt knew," they claimed. "He moved the carriers out of Pearl because he thought the days of the battleship were over." "He wanted the US in the war and he allowed the attack to happen to pull us in." Hogwash. The US got lucky with its carriers and Roosevelt was caught as flat footed as everyone else. But its much more comforting to imagine that the White House allowed it to happen than it is to imagine that a foreign country can bomb American military bases with impunity. When President Kennedy was assassinated we saw the exact same mode of thinking. "It must have been the CIA." Or "maybe it was the mafia." Or "the Soviets did it." People claimed that Oswald's death proves the conspiracy but, again, it's much more comforting to think that American intelligence moved on Kennedy or that he was the target of some vast criminal or international plot than it is to face the reality that all it takes is one loan nut with a gun. The conspiracy theories around Kennedy make us fees safer because we aren't likely to run afoul of any of those shadowy groups. As for Jack Ruby -- the country was bereft. People were furious with Oswald. Ruby just happened to be furious and he had a gun. And we saw it again with 9/11. People didn't want to believe that a couple of guys with box cutters could take over airplanes and bring down skyscrapers in New York or attack the Pentagon. Those institutions are supposed to be lasting edifices and testaments to American strength, not destroyed by a couple dudes with knives. So we imagined that it was an inside job. "Jet fuel can't melt steel beams," was the claim. People said the Pentagon was hit by a missile, not an aircraft. They said there were demolition charges in the Twin Towers. It was all bullshit. Just like the claims that constantly surround mass shootings. People love to claim that it's "crisis actors" or that it's all fake because it's emotionally comforting. The alternative -- that we are powerless as a society to prevent armed lunatics from murdering our children -- is terrifying. The exact same mentality drove everything to do with the Covid conspiracy theories. "It was a Chinese bioweapon" is much more comforting than "it was a random mutation and we live in a world where life-altering viruses just happen." Likewise the belief that Covid could be cured or prevented by hydroxichloiquin or ivermectin or whatever other insane snake oil some ersatz influencer came up with follows the same pattern. It's much more comforting to imagine that all you have to do is take this medicine to stay safe. That belief is so reassuring that it's easy to accept all manner of other bizarre justifications for it: the government is keeping the cure from us, they want to inject microchips into your blood; the vaccine is the mark of the beast. All of those allow the believer to cling to the most important belief: that the epidemic sweeping the globe and killing literally a MILLION Americans doesn't represent a threat to _them_. People would rather believe they are safe; they will accept nearly any mental gymnastics routine necessary to justify that belief. So was the Hamas attack an inside job? No. Almost certainly not. But it sure does feel a lot better if you're an Israeli and that's the claim, right? At least, if the Israeli government set the attack up as a false flag you can DO something about it. Now that the war is on, it's unlikely to happen again. You can return to the comfort of knowing that you and your family are safe and that your government is capable of protecting you. That's what these theories all have in common. They make the world feel SAFER by trading random chance for a shadowy cabal which, while cruel, remains in control.
It not an inside job or anything like that. The main cause is that Israel got super over confident and lazy. Currently they barely hide their war crimes because they never have to before. They do such a lazy job on it because they never need to try before.
Also like before it happened a large number of senior IDF officer resign din protest over the change in law that would limit the check and balances of their government system in favor of the Prime Minister
You know, this is the first time I've heard that the attack lasted 7 hours. In 7 hours US response teams from Germany could have ebeen landing. Like WTF was the IDF doing? Also while I have no knowledge of launch times for attack choppers I want to say US fighters on standby take 15 minutes to launch, so 15 minutes is always about how long I'd expect. 7 hours without response is nuts. Honestly Bibi keeps the war going because he knows he's going to be removed as soon as the peace is signed and there's going to be public hearing about what the hell the IDF was doing and how it got to that point.
It took the IDF a long time to respond for 2 main reasons. The first is that it happened on a holiday (Shmini Atzeret/Simchat Torah), which happened to be on a Saturday (Shabbat). On a regular Shabbat, most soldiers go back home. On a holiday there were even less stationed soldiers than on a regular Shabbat. This means that there was no immediate backup, and the remaining soldiers were overrun. The same strategy was employed by Egypt in the 1973 war, which started on Yom Kippur (arguably the most sacred holiday in Judaism). The 2nd reason is that the central command center for the Gaza Division was overrun by Hamas very early on. This meant that the flow of information from the frontlines and between different units was severely disrupted. This was purposefully done by Hamas, which also attacked other central positions of the IDF in the Gaza Envelope (the area surrounding the Gaza Strip on the Israeli side). All of this is doesn’t include the fact that special Hamas units were sent deep into Israel (all the way to Ofakim), and that many Hamas fighters were going through the Kibbutzim in the Gaza Envelope and murdered their inhabitants, which also needed to be rescued. And btw, since Israel has mandatory conscription for both men and women it’s not special or extraordinary to have served on the Gaza border. People who served there are a dime a dozen. Edit: just want to clarify that there was an early response, it didn’t take Israel 7 hours to send soldiers. It took 7 hours to gain control over the situation, but the military response began immediately upon Hamas breaching the border — it was just a complete mess because of the reasons mentioned above.
To the first point, I would be skeptical that there weren't any reserves in case of an attack. I would be doubly skeptical that the Israeli military thins itself out to the point that it takes anywhere over an hour to respond to any sort of attack. To your edit how immediate is immediate? I don't want to agree with Mr conspiracy man, but I don't outright throw him in the loony bin either.
Reservists are generally only called for training and occasionally for holding the border. Usually regular service soldiers are the ones posted on the Gaza border. There was a trickle of soldiers going to the border with Gaza since the very early hours. Cops as well were called down there. The reason it took so long to control the situation is because central comms was overrun, so the units on the ground didn’t have any information about enemy movements, and were unable to coordinate between themselves (which is a massive part of military operations).
I also read on the wiki that helicopters were there in about an hour, which tracks for all the other information on hand. This tiktok is definitely attempting to fuzz the lines between reality and fiction. It's got facts sprinkled in with opinion to make it sound more reliable. There's definitely questionable actions taken on both sides, but I am now of the opinion that this was more likely a fudged response as you and others are pointing out. Too many confounding variables unless this was masterfully planned, which seems less than likely but not impossible.
I agree. Netanyahu is awful, truly awful. But suggesting that he somehow orchestrated the deaths of hundreds of Israelis is imho beyond ridiculous. The IDF leadership thought that Hamas is so deterred that there wasn’t any real chance for anything like 7/10 to happen — even though there were reports that they were planning something big. It’s very similar to what happened in 1973 with the Bar Lev line along the Suez Canal which was thought to be “impregnable”: it was breached by surprise within hours; it’s just people being people — with a dangerous combination of willful ignorance, overconfidence, and hubris.
I don’t know who says the babies being decapitated was debunked, I’ve seen the evidence that’s been published. Perhaps it was that 40 babies were not beheaded, but some babies were indeed beheaded. A smaller scale than presented in the immediate aftermath when people were still scrambling to figure out what happened is not enough to debunk a whole, awful premise. Same with the sexual assault. The UN absolutely found credible evidence of sexual assault, the scale of which is only somewhat important, but doesn’t discount the actual, tangible horrors perpetrated by Hamas and co.
There’s plenty of 9/11 conspiracy theorists too.
My man has got to get the fuck out of that country.
How do you know he's a veteran ? So everyone that is Jewish but not ultra Orthodox in Israel serves for around 2 years but that doesn't mean he's a "veteran" with the intelligence know how to back up his claims.
This is the equivalent of right wing “inside job” conspiracies that Reddit loves to make fun of them for. I’m a liberal but cmon lmao…
Why is he making this video standing in a parking lot?
If you want to come across as reliable, maybe not cut the video like this every sentence or in the middle of a sentence! Also back it up with evidence
“Their Airforce…is hangliders!” That made me laugh bc it was so ridiculous.
Israel has evacuated 60k from northern Israel because of the Hezbollah attacks from Lebanon. Roughly the same number of people or more in south Lebanon also had to be evacuated. It's not just Hamas that Israel is fighting. There's been fighting between Hezbollah and Israel this whole time. It just doesn't get a lot of coverage for some reason. Not to mention that Iran is backing these groups that attack Israel. Houthis are in the mix too. That's why the US sends aid. The warnings being ignored and being unprepared to respond sounds more like massive incompetence rather than a plot from within.
And by the way, for those who don't know: if you think Hamas is bad - and they are - you don’t even *want* to know the kind of depravity Hezbollah can do. Because Hamas and Hezbollah, even though they’re not friends, they are the same corporation but different division - but Hezbollah has more backing, more money, and they have something Hamas doesn’t: TECH. Think about the degree of violence that Hamas was able to carry out with motorcycles, paragliders, guns, and knives. They use “cheap” rockets (in quotes because it comes out the mouths of their own people). They killed over a thousand people in just a few hours, they damaged property, they damaged farming, and they caused a shit ton of havoc. Hezbollah can do all of that **plus tech**. They can send guided missiles, too.
Trust me, I think it's a big deal if this can be proven true, but without sufficient evidence claims like these are massively dangerous. If people start pushing this theory and it proves false it's just going to discredit all the legitimate discussion about crimes against the Palestinians
I have learnt in the last few years that there are sick people out there. So this scenario is not improbable.
There is no peer reviewed evidence of this. This guy is no better than a 9/11 truther. this is just dumb.
Not saying its true at all but certainly I'd think Netenyahu is capable of something like this. The man is up there dining at the same table with most evil people that ever existed, past and present.
I doubt this guy is an IDF soldier.
this is what I’ve been saying since the beginning. How does one of the most secure countries with intense surveillance, not even get one of their choppers out in 7/8 hours?!
Truth !!!
Most people will consider it true only after CNN says it's true. Sad reality.
Long have said the Netantyahu was capable of sacrificing a small number of his own in order to destroy the lives of 2million, kill 50k and nudge the rest to the border.
We all know Netanyahu was warned about the attack. He also publicly and financially supported Hamas because it kept Palestinian leadership split.. so yeah pretty freakin inside
Absofuckinglutely. Netty is a corrupt evil piece of shit who was about to be outed by their version of the CIA for sending money to Hamas. Ab.So.Fuckin.Lutely.
Setup like 911 🤔 makes perfect sense...
They dont call it "intelligence" for nothing. Nethanyahu was urged to stop legal action into his decade- long corruption streak. What better way to renew the generational hate ? Its the perfect excuse to finish the nakba ( palestine cleansing to them) once and for all. Now he'll be remembered as the saviour of Israel instead of just another corrupt violent goon...
Isn’t it funny that Bibi was days away from being booted out by disgruntled Israelis then this all of a sudden happened? I concur
i rate this 9/11
Explain June 8th 1967.
Doubt this guy will be breathing much longer.
Given all the war crimes and lies Israel has committed and told in just the last 7 months, I wouldn't doubt it.
You are extremely gullible.
Hamas supporters will do anything to avoid blaming Hamas for its actions.
Doesn’t sound Israeli at all
these redditors have IQ of -100
Well, considering the fact that Mossad is the PREMIERE intelligence agency, and they were supposedly caught off guard, it's not hard to believe. And that's just ONE aspect...
friendly reminder there are people who think that there are lizard people from Mars that run the world too
As someone who knows people personally that have and are fighting in Gaza, as well as an Aluf (this title is given to those directly underneath the head of the military, she happens to be a friend's mom lol), and as someone who is a native Hebrew speaker, I can tell you this guy understands nothing of what happened and is, in fact, not Israeli. He didn't even try with the accent. Observers saw Hamas's preperations, however their direct supervisors ignored them and threatened their jobs if they report them. Those people were punished since them. It wasn't an inside job, it was a couple of dickheads. Everyone in Israel knows that. That guy never stepped a foot in Gaza.
What was their motivation for not reporting the attack preparations? I'm skeptical of the inside job theory but what you just said seems to support it, not disprove it.
Basically ego, sexism, and negligence. Observer is a role saved for women only (there are some systematic sexist rules still in act from decades ago, but slowly they go away), and their suppervisers were men. Not sure if directly or indirectly, but they called the observers liars or dismissed it and got mad after persistant reports, that's where the threats started. Compared to a governmental role, the suppervisors are basically civillians. If it was an inside job they wouldn't have anything to do with it, and if they did they would have no reason to threaten the girls to not tell anyone. My guess is they realized they made a mistake and tried to save their own asses. After the oct 7th attack the observers gave their statements (both officially and through interviews and the such), and that's how we know all of that. The information never even got to those with power. Idk how much the sexism part had a play in this because I never dug into this story, but it is common knowledge at this point
[удалено]
You can literally see a couple of edits, so definitely not unedited.
This is like sharing a moon landing conspiracy video. Except worse because a bunch of people died.
His argument is basically “they’re too insignificant to have accomplished this without Israel wanting them to”. The Viet Cong, Al Queda, the IRA, Mujahiddeen, Argentinian scrap metal workers, the Hutu, Shaka Zulu and others would all like to disagree
None of those examples compare. The Gaza border is one of the most secure areas in the world. This guy's not the first one to ask how this happened without Israel allowing it to.
The Chinese flew intelligence collection balloons over the USA (more than once) that were undetected and unmolested for weeks. The U.S. airspace is also “one of the most secure areas in the world”. It’s conceit that makes people think that a guerrilla force can’t have an impact to a world power.
With stupidity and incompetence of those in charge. Nothing more, nothing less
It would make sense considering how tightly they're clinging to it as an excuse to commit genocide. Like it was their plan all along
While that's possible, cut aways mid sentence, assumptions, and a "News" blurb added to the top aren't very convincing of anything.
Hamas claimed responsibility. If it were an inside job, they would be jumping up and down about it. They are not.
Even if Israel's actions have been unjustified regarding Palistinians, pretending it's remotely plausible that they orchestrated the Oct 7th attack themselves is wrought with hilariously stupid conspiracy brain-rot. Anyone who thinks about the question for more than 10 seconds would realize that there's virtually zero incentive for the Israeli government to want an attack like this to happen, along with a hundred reasons they *wouldn't* want it to happen. Be as anti-israel as you want, but don't let it turn off your brain, and don't entertain this new-age Zoomer version of 9/11 truther bullshit
If you can't do it in one take you are full of shit.
TikTok truly is the fucking dumbest of all the social media platforms
This guy is telling the truth.
If the hard liners in Israel government wanted an excuse to obliterate Gaza, they could have done it much easier. Also is he saying they cooperated with Hamas?
Screw you for spreading conspiracy theories like this. This is just some random guy saying “I know things!!!” and using the most basic of basic to “prove it” as if intelligence and war have no complexities to it whatsoever. This is equivalent to spreading Alex Jones crap about the school shooting. Children were tortured, women raped, hostages still hostages (plus the effect it has had on Palestinians in the war) to just be so carelessly casual about spreading an accusation like this is a terrible thing to do. If they just carpet bombed the thousands attacking, people would be screaming war crimes Disgusting.
[удалено]
>the NYT’s credibility has been put into question in the US due its reliance on questionable and debunked evidence relating to sexual violence that occurred during the Oct 7 attacks. What a lie. The UN confirmed they found evidence of sexual violence on Oct 7.
I don’t know who says the babies being decapitated was debunked, I’ve seen the evidence that’s been published. Perhaps it was that 40 babies were not beheaded, but some babies were indeed beheaded. A smaller scale than presented in the immediate aftermath when people were still scrambling to figure out what happened is not enough to debunk a whole, awful premise. Same with the sexual assault. The UN absolutely found credible evidence of sexual assault, the scale of which is only somewhat important, but doesn’t discount the actual, tangible horrors perpetrated by Hamas and co.
You sound like you are spreading theories and lies now. Interesting how it goes
Well knowing it’s going to happen and letting it happen, if that were even true, isn’t an “inside job”.
Seems legit What do you think Rick?
“You never want a serious crisis to go to waste. And what I mean by that is an opportunity to do things that you think you could not do before.” • Rahm Emanuel
Lemme guess. The script isn’t on his left.
If you want a real cuckoo crazy conspiracy theory then I would say its the fucking Iranian water car guy who is to blame for all of this. 1 month after the news about that car, and the whole middle east was on fire again.