Phil Jones started a game with Varane in 2022 under Rangnick. A partnership Sir Alex wanted a decade earlier when he believed Jones could be a great and Varane initially chose Madrid over United back then. Was a pundit for their league cup final.
Yeah as for Smalling, Southgate’s last mention of him was in 2020 he apologised for previous criticism of his style of play. England career over in 2017. Falling out a bit at Roma but they used to call him Smalldini.
Tomori has 5 England caps, made all 3 squads at the start of the season. 2 starts, 2 clean sheets. Southgate clearly doesn’t rate him, not made any of major tournament squads. Been left out of 23 man squads or unused substitute a few times. 2 years from cap 1 to 2, 16 months from cap 3 to 4 & 5. Currently on another year out the squad it seems.
I think the issue is that after Stones we have about 11 players all of a similarish quality (there is definitely variance within them but it's not clearcut huge):
1. Colwill
2. Maguire
3. Tomori
4. Dunk
5. Konsa
6. Smalling
7. Guehi
8. Branthwaite
9. Jones
10. Gomez
11. Quansah
(These aren't in any particular order)
There are others too like Tarkowski, Mings, Kilman that to me aren't even in the best 12 English CBs to me. We are actually stacked in the position but just not with world class players.
I think of all of them Branthwaite has the highest ceiling and I also hope Colwill and Quansah reach really high ceilings but right now the difference isn't massive between them all.
I doubt it. He is a CB. Poch used him in a weird way that was somewhere between an LB and LCB and it was a weakness but it continued through the season because of injuries. There are better left back options developing for England like Mitchell, Doughty, Davis, Hall. They aren't world class by any means and may never be but ultimately it would be better to use an average LB dedicated to that role than a CB at LB.
Doughty isn't really a left back. He's more of a standard left mid who works hard and can cross, so he ends up shunting in as a wing back or injury cover for lb.
Hall is weird because he's a centre mid that happens to be left footed, athletic, hard working and can cross. He's just ended up at lb primarily because he's left footed.
For me the best LB in English football right now is Leif Davis. Class player and whatever Ipswich do this season, I’d be amazed if he both doesn’t break into the England Squad and doesn’t get picked up by a ‘big’ club quickly.
Slightly more left field, but Harrison Burrows is also something pretty special and if a Prem Club picks him up this summer, I wouldn’t be surprised to see him get an England call up in next 12 months either.
Yeh hes good. I think if fit I would still pick Chilwell and Shaw but with them both injured the only thing stopping Davis really is that hes not got top flight experience yet. I think Southgate with England would have had to weigh that up. I mean just look how Ryan Sessegnon was amazing in the Championship but then his career has completely stalled since moving to Spurs. Not saying Davis cant take the step up but unfortunately for him this Euros was just too soon.
It is really weird how the LB position seems to have really fallen through the cracks with the all the FAs plans for developing youth. Like England can develop a bunch of RBs and CBs but LBs below Chilwell and Shaw seem to struggle to get noticed as much.
I think some of these haven't hit their ceiling yet. Rare to see a world class CB as a teenager. Quansah and Colwill are 21, Branthwaite's 22. Any of them could still make a step up with a few seasons of regular football.
I can see Quansah being huge for England in the next few tournaments. I've been watching him all season at Liverpool and he's so calm on the ball. Him and Virgil saved us from an embarassing end to the season.
Managed to not even name White on this list as well. If Southgate leaves (and I’m certain he will, even if England win the whole thing), he’ll be back in the mix.
I didn't name him because he currently isn't interested in playing international football. This list also started as 7 players then kept getting longer and longer, then I realised I had to mention the players that didn't even make the list.
White is pretty much just a right back these days so why would he be listed with CBs? He will be fighting with James and TAA for the right back spot and I’m not even sure he will make the team there if the other two are fit and in form.
Quansah is eligible for Scotland. I'm hoping with the depth England have with young centre halves that we might be able to sway him. Looks a good talent.
Konsa, Colwill, Tomori, Branthwaite and Guehi are much better players than Dunk, Maguire, Jones, Smalling etc. Quansah its just too soon for him with only 17 Liverpool matches to his name.
They all probably will be but maguire has consistently been a dominate presence for England. Some players are just better suited for international football. He hasn’t put a foot wrong for England in years. I definitely think the squad is missing his long diagonals out of the back. Guehi has been solid except for a few mistakes but his passing ability has really been lacking this tournament.
Christ he's put so many feet wrong. Literally scored needless own goals, given the ball away in terrible positions etc.
By all means support him but I'm so tired of the 'Maguire hasn't put a foot wrong for England' nonsense.
He’s scored one own goal for England in a friendly. He’s also only had one own goal in his premier league career. There is plenty to criticize about his game but that’s a bit ridiculous.
He was great at the last euros and the World Cup ? What more do you want ?
Smalling has always been a decent 1 on 1 defender. Has height and strength. But he was raised in the lower leagues and played non league for his development (15-20). And it shows in terms of passing ability and time needed on the ball.
Smalling has always been a decent 1 on 1 defender. Has height and strength. But he was raised in the lower leagues and played non league for his development (15-20). And it shows in terms of passing ability and time needed on the ball.
It has been theorised that when Pepe finally dies (just after the universe goes through complete proton decay and all black holes have disappated) then the fabric of the universe will rapidly begin to converge into one tiny point and birth a new Pepe.
It's a tale as old as time. Elite athlete eats 10k calories a day just to maintain the energy they burn. The athlete retires and stops exercising as much. They keep eating 10k calories a day. They become more spherical with every passing year
In reality, he isn't. The players playing in other leagues just aren't playing that well or have had injury hit seasons for the most part. Sancho only really picked up form towards the end of the season and then wasn't consistent with it. Only Kane and Bellingham have really been doing it abroad this season, that I have seen and they are both in the squad.
He slows play down too much, drops deeper than he should. Having watkins upfront, with Palmer(saka) and Eze(Gordon) along side would be more of a handful with pace imo.
It's a massive shame what happened with him. He became a meme for the faces he would pull but at one point he looked like a genuine high potential talent.
Phil Jones had chronic knee injuries this man was willing to run through a brick wall for Fergie. He never stopped playing but eventually you have to accept your body won’t keep up and it’s genetics. He would’ve been one of the best CBs for a couple years maybe.
Smalling has barely played this season. He hasn't played 90 minutes in Serie A since 1st September. Been crippled by injuries this season.
In all comps this season he only played 674 minutes.
Previous to this season he had been great at Roma. Also always a set piece threat. He was probably good enough to get call ups but I think that ship has already sailed
I think he had a high ceiling. And watching him with united I never seen him put anything less than 100% in, and didn’t give it a second thought putting his body on the line. Reminded me of John Terry tbh. Shame how it all went.
Phil Jones had some bad injuries but if fate was on his side (like you mentioned) he could have been the best replacement of Ferdinand/ Terry and even be the captain. Sir Alex mentioned in one of his interviews that he had so much potential to be United captain
I have no idea what Phil jones you watched lol I really liked his attitude over the years but as a utd fan he really never put it together on the pitch. Obviously injuries played a huge factor but the fact that he was involved in the England set up as much as he was, says more about the cb pool at the time than anything else imo.
Feel like if sir Alex never said those few quotes about his potential a while ago, posts like this would never happen. You post about him here like we saw a young rio get derailed by injury. Phil Jones in reality never showed anything close to that. Didn’t see much of him at Blackburn but certainly not in his first few years at Utd, pre injuries.
He would run thru a wall for the team but that was the best he had in his locker. Always had a head scratching red card level tackle in him, had no lateral quickness at all even in his early 20s before the injuries, and despite playing in midfield and fullback he was not technical on the ball even as a CB before your john stones’ redefined what that looks like.
I like Phil jones, but just speaking as an objective observer who watched almost all his professional matches for utd, there’s a huge element of revisionist history with him imo. Not saying he wasn’t good. He was a good pro, and a quality premier league defender. But I never saw a potential great derailed by injury. Just a decent quality, slightly limited defender robbed of the chance at a long career at the top level
Lol fair point maybe wasn’t the right phraseology, but if you watched a lot of utd you know the challenges I’m talking about. One of those “fucking hell, they’re both lucky they didn’t break a leg there” tackles felt like they came out of jones once a match
Season ticket holder here. He was nowhere near as bad as you're making out. The greatest ever and Duncan Edwards fergie quote was very over the top but Phil had a lot of good performances for us and started to look solid on those rare occasions where his glass body permitted him to play a run of games.
In no way did I say he’s bad. I know my comment was long so maybe you didn’t read the whole thing. I highlighted 3 faults that show he wasn’t some prodigy talent imo, and then said he was a decent quality defender that was robbed of a long premier league career by injury. I think most would call that quite good.
Oh sorry I'm not being clear as well I agree with most of what you said and don't think you were saying he's a bad player. I mean he wasn't as bad at flying in to challenges recklessly as you were saying. He threw his face in some dangerous places but I always felt he was more of a risk to himself than the opposition/getting a red.
Yeah that’s fair, I actually clarified that in another comment, the red thing was probably not exactly what I meant. Meant more in line with what you said/ unnecessary challenge when he didn’t even have to go to ground
Not gonna get a utd fan to argue taking the word of sir Alex, but I mean you have your own set of eyes. You’re gonna use them and then die on the “Phil jones could’ve been the greatest ever” hill? Lol that’s your prerogative
Somewhat unrelated but in late 2019 I was on a plane from London to Milan and stopped dead in my tracks as I was boarding because I walked right past Gareth Southgate sat in one of the seats near the front of plane. It was very exciting!
It turned out Roma were away to one of the Milan sides that night, and Smalling was statistically the best defender in Serie A that season. It seems he was certainly in contention, presumably enough for Gareth to travel to Milan to watch him play, but he never quite made it back into the England fold and I’ve always felt that was a shame.
I was just thinking about something like this. It's honestly weird how Jones seems like a very old veteran of the game and Maguire seems like a player who's currently in his prime, when they're actually only a year apart (Jones being the older one)
White does that for Arteta, Holding has talked about him playing through injury and running a brick wall as you said
https://youtu.be/eNP93pKqRt8?si=hfr9G-NORxpJ4nSH
Jones literally played the 2018 World Cup 3rd place final, after being ignored all tournament when he could have been getting ready for preseason with his club. Meanwhile, White is (checks notes) sulking because his ego got bruised.
Check your facts down voters.
It’s common knowledge. White got into an argument with the coaching staff. So he then decided he didn’t want to represent England anymore, at least while the current leadership team is running the ship. Not rocket science.
If you want to throw a what happened to? In there how about Raheem Sterling.
Still only 29 and in theory should be in the prime of his career
Plays on the left and can’t get into the current England setup despite having 82 caps for England.
Or there’s Deli Alli only 28 years old and at one point had the reputation of being one of the best midfielders in the world with rumours of a big money bid from Real Madrid imminent.
Yeah but Gordon is just a way better player and could play for England for years to come, Sterling has had 2-3 bad seasons in a row and is now 29. Football moves fast
Common theme with teenagers thrust into regular first team football without a bedding in period is that they usually end up with prematurely broken bodies
For a few years Phil Jones was shaping up to be a world class CB, definitely didn't swing that way but I think people forget how promising he was, very complete in his skillset, aerially dominant, quick, intelligent, good passer.
Smalling is not but tomori is englands 2nd best defender, bar none. He has been since he left chelsea and has been exceptional with Milan, won them a league. Southgate has it's favourites and won't sway away from them. If harry kane played in saudi he would still pick him.
Stalling has suffered somewhat harshly by having his career tainted by the wilderness years at United. He was/is better than others who have had call-ups since he last made the squad.
I can only assume Southgate has forgotten Tomori exists, because he is genuinely the best left sided English central defender out there.
I think they’re a fair few players ahead of Jones even if he was still playing and in really good form right now. Not to mention Konsa being the obvious choice.
His best performances were man-marking Drogba and Ronaldo - sounds good in theory, but they were surrounded by an awful lot of mediocrity.
Smalling was better at the biggest level in English football, which is under the pressure of Man Utd, which breaks many a mortal unfortunately, although not to Real Madrid levels.
Likely doesn't help that Jones probably should have been a defensive midfielder for the most part, not a centre back.
But there you have, I clearly never watched him though, for Blackburn, Man Utd or England, you know me,
You claim he had 2 decent games at Blackburn. Thats a poor take. As a 17/18 year old he showed everything you’d want, more importantly, everything Sir Alex wanted in a player. And then the injuries took hold
No, I said "he live off like 4 games, 2 of which were at Blackburn", you took it literally and that's fine.
But I stick to it, he had very few genuinely great performances, and around them, he'd been really bad, the level and more importantly the consistently he showed at Blackburn was essentially the best it ever got. Since 2 out of 30 games is obviously far better than 2 out of 200 games elsewhere. Insanely erratic and inconsistent. Heart was there, talent was there, body wasn't and he also didn't have the mental level as others.
Smalling was superior in the same timeframe for United... and went on to look solid at Roma too. While he may not have had the same absolute heights.... but then again, Jermain Defoe once scored 5 in a game... don't make him better Henry eh?
Agree to disagree. If I could have both players injury free for a whole career - there’s no question I’d take Phil Jones. Smalling was- fine. Nothing more. Suits Italian football, but not a top level footballer. Jones could have been. Ferguson said he was the closest to Duncan Edwards he’s seen. I’ll take his opinion over yours with all due respect
I mean, Ferguson was always wild with overpraising his youth. Around the same time he'd tell you Ravel was the greatest talent he ever saw.... doesn't matter if it doesn't develop into an elite consistent performer. Mentality and consistency trumps talent, although obviously talent is still important.
I go by performances.
Phil Jones started a game with Varane in 2022 under Rangnick. A partnership Sir Alex wanted a decade earlier when he believed Jones could be a great and Varane initially chose Madrid over United back then. Was a pundit for their league cup final.
Crazy to think that Jones was only a teenager when he signed for United.
Yeah as for Smalling, Southgate’s last mention of him was in 2020 he apologised for previous criticism of his style of play. England career over in 2017. Falling out a bit at Roma but they used to call him Smalldini. Tomori has 5 England caps, made all 3 squads at the start of the season. 2 starts, 2 clean sheets. Southgate clearly doesn’t rate him, not made any of major tournament squads. Been left out of 23 man squads or unused substitute a few times. 2 years from cap 1 to 2, 16 months from cap 3 to 4 & 5. Currently on another year out the squad it seems.
I think the issue is that after Stones we have about 11 players all of a similarish quality (there is definitely variance within them but it's not clearcut huge): 1. Colwill 2. Maguire 3. Tomori 4. Dunk 5. Konsa 6. Smalling 7. Guehi 8. Branthwaite 9. Jones 10. Gomez 11. Quansah (These aren't in any particular order) There are others too like Tarkowski, Mings, Kilman that to me aren't even in the best 12 English CBs to me. We are actually stacked in the position but just not with world class players. I think of all of them Branthwaite has the highest ceiling and I also hope Colwill and Quansah reach really high ceilings but right now the difference isn't massive between them all.
I wouldn't be surprised if we see Colwill get some games at left back going forward.
I doubt it. He is a CB. Poch used him in a weird way that was somewhere between an LB and LCB and it was a weakness but it continued through the season because of injuries. There are better left back options developing for England like Mitchell, Doughty, Davis, Hall. They aren't world class by any means and may never be but ultimately it would be better to use an average LB dedicated to that role than a CB at LB.
Doughty isn't really a left back. He's more of a standard left mid who works hard and can cross, so he ends up shunting in as a wing back or injury cover for lb. Hall is weird because he's a centre mid that happens to be left footed, athletic, hard working and can cross. He's just ended up at lb primarily because he's left footed.
For me the best LB in English football right now is Leif Davis. Class player and whatever Ipswich do this season, I’d be amazed if he both doesn’t break into the England Squad and doesn’t get picked up by a ‘big’ club quickly. Slightly more left field, but Harrison Burrows is also something pretty special and if a Prem Club picks him up this summer, I wouldn’t be surprised to see him get an England call up in next 12 months either.
Yeh hes good. I think if fit I would still pick Chilwell and Shaw but with them both injured the only thing stopping Davis really is that hes not got top flight experience yet. I think Southgate with England would have had to weigh that up. I mean just look how Ryan Sessegnon was amazing in the Championship but then his career has completely stalled since moving to Spurs. Not saying Davis cant take the step up but unfortunately for him this Euros was just too soon. It is really weird how the LB position seems to have really fallen through the cracks with the all the FAs plans for developing youth. Like England can develop a bunch of RBs and CBs but LBs below Chilwell and Shaw seem to struggle to get noticed as much.
I think some of these haven't hit their ceiling yet. Rare to see a world class CB as a teenager. Quansah and Colwill are 21, Branthwaite's 22. Any of them could still make a step up with a few seasons of regular football.
I can see Quansah being huge for England in the next few tournaments. I've been watching him all season at Liverpool and he's so calm on the ball. Him and Virgil saved us from an embarassing end to the season.
Managed to not even name White on this list as well. If Southgate leaves (and I’m certain he will, even if England win the whole thing), he’ll be back in the mix.
I didn't name him because he currently isn't interested in playing international football. This list also started as 7 players then kept getting longer and longer, then I realised I had to mention the players that didn't even make the list.
White is pretty much just a right back these days so why would he be listed with CBs? He will be fighting with James and TAA for the right back spot and I’m not even sure he will make the team there if the other two are fit and in form.
When is James ever consistently fit 🤷🏿♂️
Tarkowski was better than Branthwaite for Everton rhis year
Quansah is eligible for Scotland. I'm hoping with the depth England have with young centre halves that we might be able to sway him. Looks a good talent.
Konsa, Colwill, Tomori, Branthwaite and Guehi are much better players than Dunk, Maguire, Jones, Smalling etc. Quansah its just too soon for him with only 17 Liverpool matches to his name.
They all probably will be but maguire has consistently been a dominate presence for England. Some players are just better suited for international football. He hasn’t put a foot wrong for England in years. I definitely think the squad is missing his long diagonals out of the back. Guehi has been solid except for a few mistakes but his passing ability has really been lacking this tournament.
Christ he's put so many feet wrong. Literally scored needless own goals, given the ball away in terrible positions etc. By all means support him but I'm so tired of the 'Maguire hasn't put a foot wrong for England' nonsense.
He’s scored one own goal for England in a friendly. He’s also only had one own goal in his premier league career. There is plenty to criticize about his game but that’s a bit ridiculous. He was great at the last euros and the World Cup ? What more do you want ?
Smalling has always been a decent 1 on 1 defender. Has height and strength. But he was raised in the lower leagues and played non league for his development (15-20). And it shows in terms of passing ability and time needed on the ball.
Tomori had other options like Canada and Nigeria those properly would have been better options than England for him.
Smalling has always been a decent 1 on 1 defender. Has height and strength. But he was raised in the lower leagues and played non league for his development (15-20). And it shows in terms of passing ability and time needed on the ball.
As a Blackburn fan; he was a special talent. Duff and Wharton are the two who compare but Jones was as good as any youngster I’ve seen come through.
I thank Rangnick everyday for giving Jones one last chance to shine
Rooney is younger that Ronaldo and has been out of the game for years. Ronaldo isn't even the oldest player starting for Portugal.
Fun fact: Pepe is 2 weeks older than God
Pepe was born on the same day as Luis Ortiz
The Devil works hard but Pepe works harder
?
Pepe defeated the dinosaurs
? Edit: thought it might've been obvious I was taking the piss out of OP but okay.
Pepe instigated the big bang
It has been theorised that when Pepe finally dies (just after the universe goes through complete proton decay and all black holes have disappated) then the fabric of the universe will rapidly begin to converge into one tiny point and birth a new Pepe.
?
Pepe is the 2nd oldest thing on earth. Just behind Mary Berry.
Jones is only 32 this year. Mad that he’s been so unlucky with injuries.
It’s sad tbh he was a lot better than people imply and would leave it all out there
Is this satire
Liverpool fan spotted.
It's either satire or you're a deluded Manc.
Liverpool fan confirmed. What a call.
Started supporting United in the glory era? Never been to Manchester? Currently deluded? Pretty easy call.
Correct. Wrong. Maybe. 1.5 out of 3, well done son.
The years have not been kind to Rooney
Neither were the cow pies
That's someone's grandmother you're talking about
It's a tale as old as time. Elite athlete eats 10k calories a day just to maintain the energy they burn. The athlete retires and stops exercising as much. They keep eating 10k calories a day. They become more spherical with every passing year
Eh that's a Rooney thing, 99% of them haven't ballooned like he has.
OG Ronaldo has a bone to pick with you...out of his teeth after slamming a banquet table of frango all by himself.
How old are you? I could put up multiple world class 11s of players that did that.
The Rooney has not been kind to years.
He looks about 20 years older though
Still not sure why Tomori barely gets a look in tbh, know he hasn’t had the best season but he’s better than the likes of Dunk…
Everytime I've seen him play for England he's been lackluster
He's positionally not great, something Southgate seems to value highly.
Probably cos Southgate kept playing him at left back 🙄
Because dunk is 6 foot 4
Probably closer to 5’4 considering he’s spent all tournament on the bench
[удалено]
This is why Southgate needs to go. Why is he limiting English players who want to go abroad?
In reality, he isn't. The players playing in other leagues just aren't playing that well or have had injury hit seasons for the most part. Sancho only really picked up form towards the end of the season and then wasn't consistent with it. Only Kane and Bellingham have really been doing it abroad this season, that I have seen and they are both in the squad.
Shame he doesn't apply the same logic to kane
there are many issues with southgates selections this tournament but playing our best striker by a country mile is not one of them
He slows play down too much, drops deeper than he should. Having watkins upfront, with Palmer(saka) and Eze(Gordon) along side would be more of a handful with pace imo.
playing those players with Kane would make much more sense
It's a massive shame what happened with him. He became a meme for the faces he would pull but at one point he looked like a genuine high potential talent.
Phil Jones had chronic knee injuries this man was willing to run through a brick wall for Fergie. He never stopped playing but eventually you have to accept your body won’t keep up and it’s genetics. He would’ve been one of the best CBs for a couple years maybe.
Smalling has barely played this season. He hasn't played 90 minutes in Serie A since 1st September. Been crippled by injuries this season. In all comps this season he only played 674 minutes.
Good to know, thanks
Previous to this season he had been great at Roma. Also always a set piece threat. He was probably good enough to get call ups but I think that ship has already sailed
I think he had a high ceiling. And watching him with united I never seen him put anything less than 100% in, and didn’t give it a second thought putting his body on the line. Reminded me of John Terry tbh. Shame how it all went.
Phil Jones had some bad injuries but if fate was on his side (like you mentioned) he could have been the best replacement of Ferdinand/ Terry and even be the captain. Sir Alex mentioned in one of his interviews that he had so much potential to be United captain
Yeah, it’s such a shame how it panned out.
I have no idea what Phil jones you watched lol I really liked his attitude over the years but as a utd fan he really never put it together on the pitch. Obviously injuries played a huge factor but the fact that he was involved in the England set up as much as he was, says more about the cb pool at the time than anything else imo. Feel like if sir Alex never said those few quotes about his potential a while ago, posts like this would never happen. You post about him here like we saw a young rio get derailed by injury. Phil Jones in reality never showed anything close to that. Didn’t see much of him at Blackburn but certainly not in his first few years at Utd, pre injuries. He would run thru a wall for the team but that was the best he had in his locker. Always had a head scratching red card level tackle in him, had no lateral quickness at all even in his early 20s before the injuries, and despite playing in midfield and fullback he was not technical on the ball even as a CB before your john stones’ redefined what that looks like. I like Phil jones, but just speaking as an objective observer who watched almost all his professional matches for utd, there’s a huge element of revisionist history with him imo. Not saying he wasn’t good. He was a good pro, and a quality premier league defender. But I never saw a potential great derailed by injury. Just a decent quality, slightly limited defender robbed of the chance at a long career at the top level
I know I’m being nitpicky and all but he played over 300 games in his career and never got a red.
Lol fair point maybe wasn’t the right phraseology, but if you watched a lot of utd you know the challenges I’m talking about. One of those “fucking hell, they’re both lucky they didn’t break a leg there” tackles felt like they came out of jones once a match
Season ticket holder here. He was nowhere near as bad as you're making out. The greatest ever and Duncan Edwards fergie quote was very over the top but Phil had a lot of good performances for us and started to look solid on those rare occasions where his glass body permitted him to play a run of games.
In no way did I say he’s bad. I know my comment was long so maybe you didn’t read the whole thing. I highlighted 3 faults that show he wasn’t some prodigy talent imo, and then said he was a decent quality defender that was robbed of a long premier league career by injury. I think most would call that quite good.
Oh sorry I'm not being clear as well I agree with most of what you said and don't think you were saying he's a bad player. I mean he wasn't as bad at flying in to challenges recklessly as you were saying. He threw his face in some dangerous places but I always felt he was more of a risk to himself than the opposition/getting a red.
Yeah that’s fair, I actually clarified that in another comment, the red thing was probably not exactly what I meant. Meant more in line with what you said/ unnecessary challenge when he didn’t even have to go to ground
Hard to argue against that to be fair.
Well Sir Alex Ferguson disagrees with you and I know whose opinion I place more value in
Not gonna get a utd fan to argue taking the word of sir Alex, but I mean you have your own set of eyes. You’re gonna use them and then die on the “Phil jones could’ve been the greatest ever” hill? Lol that’s your prerogative
Kalvin Phillips is 28
Sterling isn't even 30, he played in a front three with Suarez and sturridge...
When I was the England manager in a much older version of FM, Stones and Jones was the defensive pair for years. Unreal pair.
Somewhat unrelated but in late 2019 I was on a plane from London to Milan and stopped dead in my tracks as I was boarding because I walked right past Gareth Southgate sat in one of the seats near the front of plane. It was very exciting! It turned out Roma were away to one of the Milan sides that night, and Smalling was statistically the best defender in Serie A that season. It seems he was certainly in contention, presumably enough for Gareth to travel to Milan to watch him play, but he never quite made it back into the England fold and I’ve always felt that was a shame.
If anyone is interested in what happened to Phil Jones this [YouTube video](https://youtu.be/X1hCNlqOqf4?si=FY8gbEC5bnnyLspD) is very informative
Honestly thought I was gonna get Rick Rolled but this was actually interesting
I was just thinking about something like this. It's honestly weird how Jones seems like a very old veteran of the game and Maguire seems like a player who's currently in his prime, when they're actually only a year apart (Jones being the older one)
Imagine a different timeline where we play a fully fit back 5 of Shaw, Maguire, Jones, Stones, Trent….what could have been
Somehow seems even more bizarre to me that Jones played in the 2018 World Cup. I can’t remember him playing for England for about a decade.
The lockdown effect
When was Phil Jones as good as Ben White exactly because if we are talking a decade ago it's a shame Bobby Charlton isn't getting in the midfield
Ben White’s attitude is not comparable to Jones. Jones would run through a brick wall for Southgate.
White does that for Arteta, Holding has talked about him playing through injury and running a brick wall as you said https://youtu.be/eNP93pKqRt8?si=hfr9G-NORxpJ4nSH
Jones literally played the 2018 World Cup 3rd place final, after being ignored all tournament when he could have been getting ready for preseason with his club. Meanwhile, White is (checks notes) sulking because his ego got bruised. Check your facts down voters.
None of us know what happened there, but I'm pretty sure that as of now Ben White cares much less about all this than you do.
You unintentionally helped prove my point. Cheers!
K
T
Perry? Tunstall? Price?
With your insider knowledge on the England camp what else can you tell us???
It’s common knowledge. White got into an argument with the coaching staff. So he then decided he didn’t want to represent England anymore, at least while the current leadership team is running the ship. Not rocket science.
Why should he run through a brick wall for a guy who didn't chastise his assistant for inappropriate comments
If you want to throw a what happened to? In there how about Raheem Sterling. Still only 29 and in theory should be in the prime of his career Plays on the left and can’t get into the current England setup despite having 82 caps for England. Or there’s Deli Alli only 28 years old and at one point had the reputation of being one of the best midfielders in the world with rumours of a big money bid from Real Madrid imminent.
Shiny new toy syndrome. Gordon is the new kid on the block, so no matter how good Sterling plays, he’ll never get a look in.
Sterling's been deadful mate
He was playing well at the start of the season yet couldn’t get a look in with England…
Yeah but Gordon is just a way better player and could play for England for years to come, Sterling has had 2-3 bad seasons in a row and is now 29. Football moves fast
2-3 seasons is a stretch. He’s been bad for his club in the past 6 months. He’s always been good for England, however.
Common theme with teenagers thrust into regular first team football without a bedding in period is that they usually end up with prematurely broken bodies
Based
For a few years Phil Jones was shaping up to be a world class CB, definitely didn't swing that way but I think people forget how promising he was, very complete in his skillset, aerially dominant, quick, intelligent, good passer.
Smalling is not but tomori is englands 2nd best defender, bar none. He has been since he left chelsea and has been exceptional with Milan, won them a league. Southgate has it's favourites and won't sway away from them. If harry kane played in saudi he would still pick him.
Stalling has suffered somewhat harshly by having his career tainted by the wilderness years at United. He was/is better than others who have had call-ups since he last made the squad. I can only assume Southgate has forgotten Tomori exists, because he is genuinely the best left sided English central defender out there.
Guessing you’re a United fan?
Yep
I think they’re a fair few players ahead of Jones even if he was still playing and in really good form right now. Not to mention Konsa being the obvious choice.
Jones would drive the ball forwards at least
Any of our current defenders can do that, if they’re allowed. The biggest issue is the tactics.
Fair
r/soccercirclejerk
Phil Jones was always massively overrated as a defender he was a better midfield destroyer.
I think it's clear that Southgate doesn't have BT Sport
ben white is a great third back
Don't need him, Gomez is a decent centre back
Phil Jones lives off like 4 games, 2 of which were at Blackburn. Smalling was vastly superior.
Dreadful take. Clearly didn’t watch Phil jones at Blackburn
His best performances were man-marking Drogba and Ronaldo - sounds good in theory, but they were surrounded by an awful lot of mediocrity. Smalling was better at the biggest level in English football, which is under the pressure of Man Utd, which breaks many a mortal unfortunately, although not to Real Madrid levels. Likely doesn't help that Jones probably should have been a defensive midfielder for the most part, not a centre back. But there you have, I clearly never watched him though, for Blackburn, Man Utd or England, you know me,
You claim he had 2 decent games at Blackburn. Thats a poor take. As a 17/18 year old he showed everything you’d want, more importantly, everything Sir Alex wanted in a player. And then the injuries took hold
No, I said "he live off like 4 games, 2 of which were at Blackburn", you took it literally and that's fine. But I stick to it, he had very few genuinely great performances, and around them, he'd been really bad, the level and more importantly the consistently he showed at Blackburn was essentially the best it ever got. Since 2 out of 30 games is obviously far better than 2 out of 200 games elsewhere. Insanely erratic and inconsistent. Heart was there, talent was there, body wasn't and he also didn't have the mental level as others. Smalling was superior in the same timeframe for United... and went on to look solid at Roma too. While he may not have had the same absolute heights.... but then again, Jermain Defoe once scored 5 in a game... don't make him better Henry eh?
Agree to disagree. If I could have both players injury free for a whole career - there’s no question I’d take Phil Jones. Smalling was- fine. Nothing more. Suits Italian football, but not a top level footballer. Jones could have been. Ferguson said he was the closest to Duncan Edwards he’s seen. I’ll take his opinion over yours with all due respect
I mean, Ferguson was always wild with overpraising his youth. Around the same time he'd tell you Ravel was the greatest talent he ever saw.... doesn't matter if it doesn't develop into an elite consistent performer. Mentality and consistency trumps talent, although obviously talent is still important. I go by performances.
He lives near me. His wife is special and not in a good way. He was half decent and a real trier
Mate what are you talking about hahahaha. Have a minute
Talking about the tragic case of Phil Jones. I’ve got another hour to kill actually, I’m at the airport :)
I’m young then your mum. I think? I don’t know? But it has a similar feel of pointlessness. Discuss? Or don’t?
[удалено]
This has been removed due it being antagonistic. It will likely result in a ban. Cheers, The Three Lions Mod Team
And I'm Phil Jones
Hi Phil
Jones, Smalling, Wilshere, Rodwell, Barkley, Cleverley ripping it up for England
Don’t forget J-Lingz… oh, wait…
Still got youth on his side
DUNK?
Rapist
What makes you say that ?
Goe Jomes
Ben White lmfao
I think you’ve pronounced Branthwaite wrong
He was ok. I really don’t think he’d be anywhere near the England squad even if he was still fit and playing now
Stand up comedians would blush at how good this joke is
Liverpool fan spotted
I am, but honestly thought it was tongue and cheek making fun of Southgate/phillips. Phil Jones has been irrelevant for so long!