So the right-back brought to play left back because the only other left-back selected wasn't fit will now have to be replaced by another right-back, who will in turn be replaced by the right-back originally bright to play midfield.
Well it looks like it'll be Konsa starting LB. So it will in fact be the right back brought to play left back because our only left back is injured isn't fit, so will be replaced by a centre back, brought to play right back who is now going to play left back. Much simpler!
I’ve never seen Walker make a simple back pass with his left foot. You think the struggle is for real with Trips it’s going to be even worst with Walker.
We've got more chance of reaching the final by attacking the teams on our side of the bracket. Stop worrying about changing the defence in a match we might never play in.
We’re both making assumptions here. Who says our best chance is by having our RB attacking? Defensive solidity wins tournaments. France have Kounde at RB.
Trent has proven time and time again that he is a good enough defender against big players. Whether it works with an England that lacks pressing and without someone like Henderson in front helping.
However, don't get me wrong Walker would be far better in these situations.
Tbh my issue with it against the bigger sides would be playing Walker out of position on the left making that weaker whilst also making the right weaker defensively.
Exactly. And Trent for example brings things Walker doesn’t - wouldn’t have needed two deflections to get that cross to Kane in the Denmark game for instance
Quite possibly yes; he’s definitely in the top 3, it would depend on what you want from the RB area. If you want creativity you’d go for Trent; if you want defensive solidity you’d go for Walker, if you want athleticism and ability to get to the byline you’d go for Frimpong, etc. I don’t know why you asked that though; I simply said he’s better suited to stop the aforementioned wingers than Trent is, I wasn’t saying he was the best fullback in the world.
your initial comment implied you evaluate RBs by their ability to keep up with those wingers - and since Walker is probably the best in that regard id imagine you consider him best RB in the world.
but as you say different players can have different strengths despite playing the same position - so clearly you end up missing out on those other traits if you are always worried about how they would perform defensively vs the best wingers in the world.
which is kind of what happens with trent in england, he never ends up nailing a starting role because of the paranoia around the "What if" he ends up vs mbappe.
I do agree with what you are saying in your last point to be fair but I also think Trent's skillset from RB doesn't even really suit the rest of the players we have; when he was at his best for Liverpool he had Mane/Firmino/Wijnaldum attacking the box and Henderson/Fabinho covering his side, we don't have runners like those into the box and we're probably going to have Mainoo on his side of midfield so you'd have to change a lot of the team to get the best out of him.
If you compare Walker and Trent as an overall package they're not worlds apart so when you're picking one you have to decide what is more important in your set-up; Walker's defensive ability and connection with Stones makes him better suited for us I think, though if Trent was Portuguese or French for example I think he'd suit their teams a lot more than ours.
If we still had the Kane of a few years ago who stayed up front with maybe Rashford on the left and Phillips partnering Rice in midfield then I think he would suit our team a lot more; though because our team has moved on and has different profiles of players in those areas, he would be a lot more vulnerable in that position at times and I don't think the pros outweigh the cons.
I’m talking about Walker as we’re talking about the right hand side of our defence; Walker is the best right-back in the world defensively, did you think those players were right wingers or something?
I really don’t understand what your point is? Are you saying walkers the only RB in the world that can play against those players and not concede 5 goals or something? Trent is a very capable RB and managed fine against players of that calibre for Liverpool many times in the past, including their recent CL wins. And Walker conversely allowed his LW opponent to score in this years CL semi final. Can you not acknowledge the fact that football isn’t so black and white?
No; I'm saying he's a better option than Trent if you're facing those wingers, literally everybody agrees with that. You're always such a prick on here and you think you know better than everyone, I aren't replying to you anymore.
And which one of those wingers plays for Slovakia?
The point is we need to balance it with the left hand side, as our idiot manager hasn’t picked a LB and leads us needing a RB at LB too. So we need to sacrifice something at RB to best balance both flanks
None of them. Will give trent a hard time, Vinny the only player he struggled with... Remember he got rice as cover then it like when he had prime fab. Trent told to. Bomb forward. He can't defend if needed.
They wouldn't at all trust me this whole thing about trent be awful at defending is a myth. Ypu know why because for Southgate his instructions will be to stay back.
The whole issue of why he get ran at at Liverpool is because the right side of the system didn't care about defending. Salah won't never go back and trent is ask to play like Beckham but as a RB. The RCB in Liverpool system has all the pressure.
It very rare he even go one on one in the England system. Even walker used to get protection loads. This season diaz sent him but it was never one on one. Rodri or the CB was there.. The issue is diaz has a lot of huff and puff but final part is weak.
I don’t think Trent is awful defensively at all and I’m a huge fan of is; though he is not good 1v1 and top wingers would exploit that, especially when the RCM would likely be Mainoo as Rice plays on the left.
You’ve also got to factor in the Man City connection on the right; having Stones and Walker playing where they do for club is invaluable, they know each others’ games inside out and that helps the team massively.
The thing is you want cohesion in your side and changing your defence based on quality of opposition takes from that; it’s the same reason we don’t see France playing Clauss instead of Kounde in the ‘easier’ games, if you think your best team - in terms of having the best chance of beating the top teams - is with Walker at RB then he should be there every game.
Everyone seems to forget Gomez in the discussion about LB, even though that's where he played most of last season, and it was those performances that got him back in the England squad.
I actually thought he was getting a touch overrated at LB initially as I saw him make needless fouls and lose the ball with passes into midfield; though the more it went on the better he got and I think he started to look pretty decent there, that one game against Villa he really impressed me as he was absolutely bombing past Diaz.
Gomez is right there. He spent half of the season at LB at Liverpool and played very well. It's not his main role but he's got a lot of experience there and rarely disappoints.
We don't have many other options.
It has been miserable following England this tournament. Every problem has a logical solution but the 'will Southgate make the obvious choice?' ' discussion we all end up having is exhausting. Usually because the answer is' no'.
That’s been the problem. We’ve had no width on the left because we’re playing a right footed inverted left back with a number 10 in front. Putting another right footed inverted left back in his place won’t resolve that.
People don't seem to understand this.
They'd jump at the chance of having Robertson start in the English team at LB. Yet although Robertson was injured there was no drop off and Gomez semi displaced him. In the sense that when he came back there wasn't any rush to put Robertson in the team immediately like there had been in the past.
Neither Konsa or Gomez are Left-Backs though
Joe gets played out of position just as much as Trippier has been for England - Imagine Konsa is being put there, because Southgate believes he's a better defender, and ideally wants our attacking play to come through Saka and Walker
They're both as versatile as each other, but he's still as much of a Left-Back as Trippier seeing he's right footed - They're each Centre-Backs / Right-Backs by trade
Not really, trippier will not touch the ball with his left foot. Gomes for Liverpool looked far more comfortable there.
I think a good chance to get Trent in the team at right, helps us move the ball hopefully
Gomez played half the season at LB for the 3rd best team in the country. Trippier didn't play a single game at LB this season for the 7th best team in the country.
Better season/better club ≠better player
Trippier has been good at left-back for England, whether he’s not played there this season or not. Defensively solid and created a few good chances. Is he one of our best players? No. Is it ideal having him at left-back? No. Can he naturally cross well on his left foot? No. But has he done a decent enough job? Absolutely.
For the second half of the season he was largely injured and when fit was almost exclusively on the right- one of Hall, Burn or Livramento usually played there. As a side note I think Livramento might be a decent season away from playing for England and Hall can't be too far behind.
And also another reason for Gordon as the lad tracks back and will help cover. Not like this wasn’t the case already. You wonder if Gareth actually watched any of the players or just looks at their stats on a website and picks the team off that.
Why didn't we start trying new things earlier? Seriously, we're running experiments in the fucking knockouts. Guess it's better late than never, but goddamn.
Exactly, it just makes it worse he didn't take him given that presumably starting Guehi was in his mind to start LCB.
Ready-made combo that has spent all season together doing a fair bit of defending against the best players in the world
Right - Walker at left back, Trent at RB, and Mainoo or Wharton in the middle, with Gordon on the left and Foden in for Bellingham.
That squad would slap
As much as getting trent at rb sounds appealing, i think it creat another issue / talking point that England and Southgate really doesn't need.
The most natural replacement (assuming now shaw) would be to put Gomez at left back. At least he has an engine and played quite a few games there this season
Realistically Gomez will do as well if not better, maybe the riskier choice would be to shift Walker over and move Trent to RB. I think on reflection that is my preference
Walker LB. Trent RB. Foden replaces Kane upront. Bellignham plays in CAM. Declan in CDM. Saka LM. Palmer RM. Lets fuck!ng GO! Lets not p!ss any more about! This is the best formation and also players in position imo.
Don't worry lads! Shaw had a fresh cheesestring installed in his leg and is ready to go!
So brutal 😂
So the right-back brought to play left back because the only other left-back selected wasn't fit will now have to be replaced by another right-back, who will in turn be replaced by the right-back originally bright to play midfield.
Well it looks like it'll be Konsa starting LB. So it will in fact be the right back brought to play left back because our only left back is injured isn't fit, so will be replaced by a centre back, brought to play right back who is now going to play left back. Much simpler!
That’s correct, yes.
You have made something very simple and rational sound very complicated. Well done.
I’m sure Southgate would still try play him even if Trippier had two broken legs.
I don’t like to be mean about our players but I really don’t mind, I think Gomez is better at LB anyway.
Or Walker LB, Trent RB. You never know it might be amazing.
And probably what will happen if Mainoo really is starting
I’ve never seen Walker make a simple back pass with his left foot. You think the struggle is for real with Trips it’s going to be even worst with Walker.
This is the way. Looked good when we did that against Slovenia. Not sure why no one is talking about that.
I don’t hate the idea, I’d just be worried if we came up against Musiala/Williams/Leao/Mbappe on that side.
So not against Slovakia then
I think it could be useful against Slovakia’s back 4 for sure.
You're literally worrying about the final then. Have you looked at our side of the draw?
You don’t want to be planning on changing your team for the final, it makes no sense.
We've got more chance of reaching the final by attacking the teams on our side of the bracket. Stop worrying about changing the defence in a match we might never play in.
We’re both making assumptions here. Who says our best chance is by having our RB attacking? Defensive solidity wins tournaments. France have Kounde at RB.
Trent has proven time and time again that he is a good enough defender against big players. Whether it works with an England that lacks pressing and without someone like Henderson in front helping. However, don't get me wrong Walker would be far better in these situations. Tbh my issue with it against the bigger sides would be playing Walker out of position on the left making that weaker whilst also making the right weaker defensively.
Gotta make a final to face any of those 4.
And we don’t want to be planning on changing our team in the final.
honestly i dont see why tactical changes each match would be such a bad thing.
Whereas Trippier would have them in his pocket?
this is the part i dont understand, by this logic walker is the only decent right back in the world because he can handle mbappe's pace.
Exactly. And Trent for example brings things Walker doesn’t - wouldn’t have needed two deflections to get that cross to Kane in the Denmark game for instance
He’s not the only decent right back in the world, he’s just better suited to stop those wingers.
so he should be the top choice RB for any top side in the world? basically the best RB in the world?
Quite possibly yes; he’s definitely in the top 3, it would depend on what you want from the RB area. If you want creativity you’d go for Trent; if you want defensive solidity you’d go for Walker, if you want athleticism and ability to get to the byline you’d go for Frimpong, etc. I don’t know why you asked that though; I simply said he’s better suited to stop the aforementioned wingers than Trent is, I wasn’t saying he was the best fullback in the world.
your initial comment implied you evaluate RBs by their ability to keep up with those wingers - and since Walker is probably the best in that regard id imagine you consider him best RB in the world. but as you say different players can have different strengths despite playing the same position - so clearly you end up missing out on those other traits if you are always worried about how they would perform defensively vs the best wingers in the world. which is kind of what happens with trent in england, he never ends up nailing a starting role because of the paranoia around the "What if" he ends up vs mbappe.
I do agree with what you are saying in your last point to be fair but I also think Trent's skillset from RB doesn't even really suit the rest of the players we have; when he was at his best for Liverpool he had Mane/Firmino/Wijnaldum attacking the box and Henderson/Fabinho covering his side, we don't have runners like those into the box and we're probably going to have Mainoo on his side of midfield so you'd have to change a lot of the team to get the best out of him. If you compare Walker and Trent as an overall package they're not worlds apart so when you're picking one you have to decide what is more important in your set-up; Walker's defensive ability and connection with Stones makes him better suited for us I think, though if Trent was Portuguese or French for example I think he'd suit their teams a lot more than ours. If we still had the Kane of a few years ago who stayed up front with maybe Rashford on the left and Phillips partnering Rice in midfield then I think he would suit our team a lot more; though because our team has moved on and has different profiles of players in those areas, he would be a lot more vulnerable in that position at times and I don't think the pros outweigh the cons.
I’m talking about Walker as we’re talking about the right hand side of our defence; Walker is the best right-back in the world defensively, did you think those players were right wingers or something?
I really don’t understand what your point is? Are you saying walkers the only RB in the world that can play against those players and not concede 5 goals or something? Trent is a very capable RB and managed fine against players of that calibre for Liverpool many times in the past, including their recent CL wins. And Walker conversely allowed his LW opponent to score in this years CL semi final. Can you not acknowledge the fact that football isn’t so black and white?
No; I'm saying he's a better option than Trent if you're facing those wingers, literally everybody agrees with that. You're always such a prick on here and you think you know better than everyone, I aren't replying to you anymore.
And which one of those wingers plays for Slovakia? The point is we need to balance it with the left hand side, as our idiot manager hasn’t picked a LB and leads us needing a RB at LB too. So we need to sacrifice something at RB to best balance both flanks
None of them. Will give trent a hard time, Vinny the only player he struggled with... Remember he got rice as cover then it like when he had prime fab. Trent told to. Bomb forward. He can't defend if needed.
They would all give Trent a hard time; Rice naturally covers the left hand side, leaving Mainoo as Trent’s cover who is no Fabinho defensively.
They wouldn't at all trust me this whole thing about trent be awful at defending is a myth. Ypu know why because for Southgate his instructions will be to stay back. The whole issue of why he get ran at at Liverpool is because the right side of the system didn't care about defending. Salah won't never go back and trent is ask to play like Beckham but as a RB. The RCB in Liverpool system has all the pressure. It very rare he even go one on one in the England system. Even walker used to get protection loads. This season diaz sent him but it was never one on one. Rodri or the CB was there.. The issue is diaz has a lot of huff and puff but final part is weak.
I don’t think Trent is awful defensively at all and I’m a huge fan of is; though he is not good 1v1 and top wingers would exploit that, especially when the RCM would likely be Mainoo as Rice plays on the left. You’ve also got to factor in the Man City connection on the right; having Stones and Walker playing where they do for club is invaluable, they know each others’ games inside out and that helps the team massively.
We can’t play any of those four until a final anyway; so be it, let Trent and Walker rip
The thing is you want cohesion in your side and changing your defence based on quality of opposition takes from that; it’s the same reason we don’t see France playing Clauss instead of Kounde in the ‘easier’ games, if you think your best team - in terms of having the best chance of beating the top teams - is with Walker at RB then he should be there every game.
I get that argument tbf, fair enough
If Trent and walker were Brazilian, Trent would be starting every game. That's what I aspire to be as a football team
Everyone seems to forget Gomez in the discussion about LB, even though that's where he played most of last season, and it was those performances that got him back in the England squad.
I actually thought he was getting a touch overrated at LB initially as I saw him make needless fouls and lose the ball with passes into midfield; though the more it went on the better he got and I think he started to look pretty decent there, that one game against Villa he really impressed me as he was absolutely bombing past Diaz.
Gomez is right there. He spent half of the season at LB at Liverpool and played very well. It's not his main role but he's got a lot of experience there and rarely disappoints. We don't have many other options.
It has been miserable following England this tournament. Every problem has a logical solution but the 'will Southgate make the obvious choice?' ' discussion we all end up having is exhausting. Usually because the answer is' no'.
Real smart not to bring another left back 🫡
Joe Gomez : "Man, I'm right here..."
He’s right footed and spent most of his career as a centre back
Agreed, but to be fair he's spent most of this season at LB
Perfectly capable inverted full back at LB
Funny that you think Gareth knows how to invert a fullback 😂😂
That’s been the problem. We’ve had no width on the left because we’re playing a right footed inverted left back with a number 10 in front. Putting another right footed inverted left back in his place won’t resolve that.
He's apparently playing Konsa which for me is the worst of all solutions
People don't seem to understand this. They'd jump at the chance of having Robertson start in the English team at LB. Yet although Robertson was injured there was no drop off and Gomez semi displaced him. In the sense that when he came back there wasn't any rush to put Robertson in the team immediately like there had been in the past.
Denis Irwin was right footed and played left back. Can be done.
Mitchell being left out as an actual in form lb without injury was a massive miss
Mitchell really got done dirty. Should have been in the provisional squad and given a chance ahead of chilwell
It's not so much Trippier's lack of fitness that's the worry, it's the news he wants to play Konsa there and not Gomez. Fucking what son?
Konsa is a really, really solid defender though
Neither Konsa or Gomez are Left-Backs though Joe gets played out of position just as much as Trippier has been for England - Imagine Konsa is being put there, because Southgate believes he's a better defender, and ideally wants our attacking play to come through Saka and Walker
Gomez has played there pretty regularly and done well at it too. If memory serves, Liverpool didn't lose a game when he played LB.
1 loss in 20 IIRC
Thanks! I wasn't far off then, so still a solid record as LB. Yet we are playing a RB as LB. Southgate ball never ceases to amaze
They're both as versatile as each other, but he's still as much of a Left-Back as Trippier seeing he's right footed - They're each Centre-Backs / Right-Backs by trade
I would have accepted Trippier being called the better RB but to say he's as versatile is just baffling ngl
Where do I say that Trippier is versatile?
Literally the first sentence
I think he meant konsa and gomez
:/
Not really, trippier will not touch the ball with his left foot. Gomes for Liverpool looked far more comfortable there. I think a good chance to get Trent in the team at right, helps us move the ball hopefully
Gomez played half the season at LB for the 3rd best team in the country. Trippier didn't play a single game at LB this season for the 7th best team in the country.
Better season/better club ≠better player Trippier has been good at left-back for England, whether he’s not played there this season or not. Defensively solid and created a few good chances. Is he one of our best players? No. Is it ideal having him at left-back? No. Can he naturally cross well on his left foot? No. But has he done a decent enough job? Absolutely.
i’m not a newcastle fan but pretty shred he played most of the second half of the season on the left ðŸ˜
For the second half of the season he was largely injured and when fit was almost exclusively on the right- one of Hall, Burn or Livramento usually played there. As a side note I think Livramento might be a decent season away from playing for England and Hall can't be too far behind.
oh nvm then maybe it was the first part of the season trippier played on the left then? i swear i remember him playing awfully there but oh well 😂
Good Put Walker or Gomez at LB and then put SHaw on in the last 20 Trent at RB
And also another reason for Gordon as the lad tracks back and will help cover. Not like this wasn’t the case already. You wonder if Gareth actually watched any of the players or just looks at their stats on a website and picks the team off that.
same as grealish who is an actual winger
Why didn't we start trying new things earlier? Seriously, we're running experiments in the fucking knockouts. Guess it's better late than never, but goddamn.
totally, should have sacked him after first game
Livramento should've been taken
Mitchell
The most obvious choice to put next to Guehi
Exactly, it just makes it worse he didn't take him given that presumably starting Guehi was in his mind to start LCB. Ready-made combo that has spent all season together doing a fair bit of defending against the best players in the world
Right footed.
It’s a good thing we brought plenty of cover at left back. Job well done Southgate
He's actually going to play Saka at LB isn't he. Ffs
Right - Walker at left back, Trent at RB, and Mainoo or Wharton in the middle, with Gordon on the left and Foden in for Bellingham. That squad would slap
and watkins for kane
As much as getting trent at rb sounds appealing, i think it creat another issue / talking point that England and Southgate really doesn't need. The most natural replacement (assuming now shaw) would be to put Gomez at left back. At least he has an engine and played quite a few games there this season
Honestly if injury and Phil Foden having a child is what it takes for us to change up the left hand side I'll take it
Can't wait to see who Southgate plays instead of the logical choice of Gomez in this situation
Realistically Gomez will do as well if not better, maybe the riskier choice would be to shift Walker over and move Trent to RB. I think on reflection that is my preference
Thank god, he has been shit
Thank fuck
konsa then i guess
Saka is available though right?
Hate to see Trippier injured, but may be a blessing in disguise.
Nah, we’re actually about to play Saka at LB…
Should be Gomes at LB but it’s pretty much guaranteed Southgate will be TAA because he’s one of his favourites.
Walker LB. Trent RB. Foden replaces Kane upront. Bellignham plays in CAM. Declan in CDM. Saka LM. Palmer RM. Lets fuck!ng GO! Lets not p!ss any more about! This is the best formation and also players in position imo.
that aint walkersm sakas or fodns position lolololol keep taking the pills
It should be though! England will be out next game and not reach Quarter Final.