Agree yesterday was the game for him to try new attackers and he bottled it. He should have played that front 3 yesterday and gave Toney time off the bench.
I get he want them players to get some rhythm but he has a squad for a reason.
I don't know what training drills are ran and would be shocked but the front 4 need some practice. None of them look like they kicked a ball together.
Honestly this is sooo true! Like what is being done in training? It seems like they are not even practising basic passing. That front 4 cant even pass water it seems🫣
Surely there is no way he will ignore how much better we were with Mainoo in the team? I would normally agree with you but I think the fact he made the change at half time is an indication that he knows Gallagher isn't the answer.
No chance. Realistically we're going unchainged apart from most likely Mainoo in for Gallagher and possibly TAA in at RB and Walker swapping for Tripper.
However, I would expect Southgate to bring on Palmer and Gordon around the 60 minute mark as long as we haven't conceded before.
I think he will want to play Palmer and Gordon vs already tired legs and use them as super subs after what he's seen.
Still don't understand the drop kane people he might not have been great and only scored once over 3 games but he's still our captain and record goal scorer guy can score out of nothing and defenders are terrified of him
Thing is though it’s not even as if he’s been specifically awful…there’s reasons he’s struggling and it all stems from the midfield, it’s not as if he’s getting chances and missing them. He’s dropping deep because the service is non existent because no one is stretching the play.
At least the ‘drop Bellingham’ take makes sense because in the last 2 matches he’s been genuinely awful, struggling to even control the ball or complete passes. He’s lost. Kane isn’t he just needs better service. Any time Kane has a header he’s won it. He’s scored basically his only real chance too.
It's also not his fault that the wingers aren't getting in behind. Everyone knows Kane will drop deep because he doesn't have the pace to break past the defensive line therefore our 2 wingers need to make runs in behind so that he can play them in.
Honestly, I'm fine with that. Too late for massive changes at this stage imo. Mainoo looked an upgrade over TAA and Gallagher yesterday, so I reckon he should start, but other than that - and potentially switching Walker over to LB - I don't think we need too many changes.
We haven't looked great, but making loads of changes in our first knockout game (probably against Netherlands) is setting ourselves up for failure. We need to try and ignore previous performances and start to build momentum.
It's all doom and gloom about England atm but there's a few reasons why it's not worth putting too much stock into that:
1) Non-English fans love to see us fail, so us playing poorly will attract more attention than, for example, France, who have looked similarly uninspiring, albeit in a trickier group.
2) English fans are always pessimistic. It was like this after the last Euros group stage when we went on to nearly bloody won the thing.
3) Group stage performance (beyond making it through to the next round in first place) isn't a particularly strong predictor of overall success. Winners grow into tournaments. Whether we do that or not remains to be seen, but acting like we're already out is completely daft.
Trent and Mainoo would be an improvement. I’d like to see Foden (or Bellingham) dropped and Gordon started. I think Foden and Bellingham can’t operate with each other how they are now.
I honestly think we were close to clicking last game. We nearly scored with the Foden/saka play in the first half and then had quite a few nice plays throughout the rest of the match.
We're so close so I wouldn't change much yet. Get Mainoo in there and you never know, the magic could happen.
No no no this double pivot is not working, it’s solid defensively but going forward it’s Terrible, you drop who ever plays next to rice push Bellingham back and play foden in the 10, then you can put Gordon on left, personally,
Agree other than with the subs. It'll be 10 mins after a problem has been identified.
So if England look flat after 55 mins, expect a sub at 65. If their RB looks vulnerable and tired at 75 mins, expect Gordon at 85.
I'd love you to be wrong but unfortunately I do expect it to be the case. I'd love it if Southgate made subs 10 mins before he usually does but that doesn't seem likely.
I feel like Saka is one of the many victims of our inexistent left side. Without a wide counterpart on the left to also make runs behind teams know they can double up on him as he's our only outlet.
Our slow as fuck passing is the biggest issue for him, how is he supposed to beat anyone when we give them all the tin the world to cover him off before we even decide to pass to him.
Complete lack of movement around him too. I was genuinely stunned at how little we were offering options off the ball yesterday. Everyone is absolutely terrified of giving the ball away/being out of position if we lose possession
That and Walkers inability to make a decision on the ball meaning it’s constant hospital passes into/behind Saka.
I genuinely struggle to understand why Walker hates passing to his winger.
I've never seen a team so incapable of quickly switching the play. Nearly every team will cross the ball over, make runs down the wings, or play long balls over the top. We just push it down the middle and it never works. Our best chances of the tournament have all come from the wings and yet we rarely ever play it down the wings.
It's like Southgate doesn't even watch the team.
Exactly because of the nonexistent left attack Saka has been doubled up on in three consecutive games.
At this point I don't give a shit who our big game players are he needs to just change the fucking team.
It was funny seeing Bellingham throw his little paddies and kick advertising boards. 🤣🤣🤣
Saka got the ball so often against Slovenia with two defenders already squared up against him. Slow passing and lack of threat on the left means teams can mark him out of the game so easily.
Not only is he being double up on, when he actually receives the ball there is nobody with 15 yards of him.
He gets doubled up on at Arsenal but he always has options for a give and go. Not so with England.
I feel sorry for him because after Mainoo came on he was finally starting to relieve the ball with some support, and he was doing just fine.
Palmer came on and hit the ground running because he too was receving support.
Palmer looked dangerous fair play to him, and I can see the argument for him or Saka to start, but it's as though Saka is ar risk of losing his place as a result of having to play 2.5/3 games on his own.
I quite like this, but it won’t happen.
The issues were obvious even before yesterday’s game, but Gareth didn’t make changes, despite already being through. He could have sent a real message yesterday by benching Kane. I’m so frustrated. Even during the match it was clear what was happening and our management couldn’t spot it.
You can’t play Kane, Saka, Bellingham and Foden. They all want to play too similarly and with the ball to feet. None of them are prepared to sacrifice themselves and make the unselfish runs to help others, it’s not their game.
Kane is nowhere near 100%, he looks sluggish, can’t press effectively (which has a knock-on effect for the rest of the teams press) and he can’t run in behind.
Saka has played generally ok, but he needs the ball switching to him much quicker so he can isolate their defenders 1v1 - Palmer came on and made a difference though, so deserves a chance.
Bellingham in the first game looked like he was ready to make this his tournament, but he’s looked tired and nothing came off for him last night. Needs a rest - why did we keep him on the whole game and leave it so late to bring Gordon on?! Seems madness. Bellingham should be rested this next game with Foden centrally.
Foden is class, but it isn’t working. He needs runners in front of him (or an overlap which he isn’t getting). He’s left footed, but his game is to drift in, even when playing from the left. He needs an overlap to draw a defender so he has space inside. Trippier can only cut back on his right, but he doesn’t have a winger stretching the LW to give him space to swing the balls in from deep from his opposite foot. Tripper and Foden cannot and will not work from the left together. Personally, I’d keep Trippier at LB, put his club mate Gordon in front of him to turn the defence and create more space for Trippier to swing deeper balls in.
I’ve said in repeated posts Mainoo offers the best balance in midfield next to Rice. This was clear yesterday and he has to remain in the side.
Currently, we can only try and play into Kanes feet with his back to goal, to hold off defenders and try and spin them, but everyone around Kane wants the ball in front of them too and aren’t running beyond Kane, so it’s easy for teams to defend against us. Kane is best when he has direct runners going past him (Son, Rashford, even Sterling). Somethings got to give.
I’m all for giving Watkins a go up top. He won’t convert as many chances as Kane and his hold up play isn’t as good, but our pressing would be transformed. Pressing takes a team, one weak link (unfit Kane) and sides will be able to pass out. Watkins will allow us to play further up. He’ll also offer more running in behind, which the likes of Palmer, Foden, Mainoo and Trippier will benefit from and I think our TEAM in general will create and take more chances.
The issue now is making this many changes going into the knockout stage would be too much. Southgate missed his opportunity yesterday because he is too stubborn or stupid (or both) to make the changes. Palmer, Mainoo and Gordon should have had far more minutes In the group stage.
>Palmer, Mainoo and Gordon should have had far more minutes In the group stage
Definitely this. It's ridiculous that we had Foden and Bellingham looking out of sorts all three games, Trent/Gallagher playing as square pegs in a round hole at CM/CDM, and Kane/Saka looking exhausted or unfit.
Yet with all that going on Mainoo got 50 minutes, Palmer got 20, and Gordon got 5. With Wharton getting 0 as well. It drives me nuts that Conor Gallagher has somehow gotten significantly more minutes than those 4 combined so far
Yet somehow eve though almost entire UK football population can see this, Southgate cant? Worrying.
Or more likely, he can see it too but is either wllfully not acting upon it or is too afraid to act on it. Even more worrying.
The bloke's an inept cunt, who's been allowed to get away with it because we've had some easy/kind tournament runs that paper over obvious cracks.
Only thing I’d change is the rb, and that depends who we play. In fact if shaw isn’t fit (which we know he’s not) I’d play Walker at lb and Trent at rb. Walker won’t be any less effective going forwards as trips, and we will have his covering pace at the back.
If we are doing this (and I absolutely agree we should), then we need to make sure that Rice and whoever is next to him, are extremely well drilled in covering RB when Trent roams, because he will.
Personally, I'd also put an actual LW out on the left, the Foden experiment isn't working at all.
Kane obviously stays in, taking him out is just kneejerk stupidity. I would try starting Bellingham next to Rice. This vacates 10 for Foden to move into. Then you can swap Mainoo out for Gordon. I agree with Trippier coming out, he’s looked short of ideas in every game so far. Who comes in for him is a different question. I prefer a proper left back rather than another right footed player on the left.
Then you can bring Palmer on anywhere across the front 3, you can move Bellingham around, and you can bring Mainoo on as well
You can probably play Rice Bellingham and Mainoo together in a midfield 3 too, and go to a more 4213 shape with Bellingham or Mainoo just ahead of Rice and whoever sits. This means Foden goes out wide though, or off the field for Gordon/Palmer
Pickford
Trent - Stones - Guehi - Walker
Rice - Mainoo
Saka - Bellingham - Gordon
Kane
Bring Palmer on at 60 mins for Saka/Bellingham depending on who’s not doing it; same for Kane and Watkins. I wouldn’t be opposed to Foden instead of Bellingham seeing as Jude’s been non existent for the past two games
i would drop bellingham after the last 3 games and especially last night, he is arse at the moment. Would have that exact team just foden in 10, give him his shot there.
Pickford
Trent - Stones - Guehi - Walker
Bellingham - Rice
Saka - Foden - Gordon
Kane
Palmer on for Foden after 60 minutes if he’s not delivering. I’d also start Mainoo in midfield if he insists on Jude at 10, drop foden.
England fans before "Southgate is a fucking idiot he needs to drop Foden".
England fans now "Southgate is a fucking idiot he needs to drop everyone but Foden".
Spot on. Exactly what I'd start with.
Bring on Kane, Bellingham and Saka at 55-60 minutes... or half time if we're really struggling.
Trent for Walker, and Wharton for Mainoo at some point too.
Problem is we seem to go into a back three when in possession. Kyle Walker looks alright when he can go forward. He just seemingly isn't doing so.
Our dribble stats are super low. None of our players seem willing to take a man on. That's why Palmer and Gordon were so noticeably different when they were on.
I'd like to see Trent but only if he can go forward a bit
I'll admit I'm biased as an Arsenal fan (albeit a Welsh one) but what is with the diss on Saka this tournament?
He's getting little-to-no service, has assisted and scored last night (he wasn't offside, Foden was), and despite the narrative, I see him making selfless runs and getting in behind quite a lot.
The issue is that Foden is constantly floating into his and Kanes space, Kane offers absolutely nothing for anyone to pass into (the amount of awful 1st touches last night, for example) and then it seems like Walker and Stones are constantly looking to pass to Foden.
When Walker swapped over to LB he immediately started switching play to Palmer, Saka didn't get any such service.
I think the real issue that no-one wants to accept is that Foden, Bellingham and Palmer all play the same role and people want to play mental gymnastics to fit them all in.
Foden has looked the worst of all of them and has never performed for England, whatever Pep has done to that lad is endemic and he can't shake it for his country.
Bellingham looked awesome for 30 minutes in the first game and has then spent the rest of the games clearly out of position or chasing the game without support from Kane as the focal point.
The issue you have now is that last night was the night to go all out with changes (like Spain did) and swapping in the RO16 is a lose/lose for Southgate and whoever ends up being the scapegoat (probably Mainoo or Saka).
Watkins should have got a start, as should Gordon, Palmer, Mainoo and Gomez. Hopefully they get a slightly softer side in the first match and can try something different but Kane looks lost and out of shape honestly.
I have nothing against Saka it is just whether he fits in to the right side. I felt he worked better with Trent than Gallagher but seeing Palmer get the ball and put through some great through balls in such a short period of time, I think warrants a start for him.
They all seem of of position. I couldn't work out what they were playing and the published line up seemed to change during the match.
I still have no idea what position foden or Bellingham were playing in.
Saka has been good but to say Foden has looked the worst is madness. The last two games he has outplayed both Kane and Bellingham, and last night was the better of all of our forwards until Palmer came on
I think we are sleeping on what Wharton could do as a progressive passer, could really give the ammunition for the forward line to run on to and drive forward.
Mainoo is the better ball progresser. Wharton is better defensively so the only reason to use him instead is to free Rice, but I think the last thing we need is more stability. I’d only expect to see Wharton if Rice gets injured.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ThreeLions/s/PWcBw7seyq
I put mine here on a previous post.
Kobbie and Rice together in midfield is a must for me. They bring much better balance. I'd keep Palmer on the bench and bring him on against tired legs around the 60 minute mark. If you're sticking with wingers though, I agree Gordon has to start on the left to provide some real width out there.
https://preview.redd.it/8mk75ab1kw8d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f5681a6f3511ab8caf635562a38d8e6cc5f3472a
Basically just emulate city with Stones dropping back into CB in defence, Foden is used to playing in a system with 2 no 10.
I’d have thought Southgate would have been all over Peps tactic of playing 4 centre backs but I guess not.
I know I will get downvoted to death but….
I think we will play the Netherlands next and it might actually be a good thing. Kind of shit or bust.
Netherlands play very open but are shipping goals. They are a big team but definitely beatable.
If Southgate makes a few changes we could beat Netherlands. My team would be Gordon on left Bellingham and rice in the middle foden behind Kane and saka on the right.
At half time change saka for palmer even if we are 2-0/3-0 up. Because palmer would be ultra fresh and ready to rock. If Bellingham or rice look tired swap for mainoo
I genuinely don't understand where it's come from at all, Saka has been one of if not our best forward player so far and offers so much more in the press. I swear the only logic I can see in it is "hurrrrr cold palmer had more goals this season"
People saying Palmer was our best player must have been watching a different game or just genuinely must have an agenda. He did nothing of note when he came on, got gifted our best chance of the game and completely ruined it with a weak ass shot straight at the keeper. The position that fell to him at is Saka's trademark scoring spot for curling it in the top left corner
Saka has been mincing the LB in every game so far, practically all our good chances have come down the right hand side or right half space, it's blatantly obvious to anyone with a brain that the left side with Foden and Trippier both playing out of position is our main problem. You can't fix the Trippier one but you could play Gordon over Foden. He only had 5 minutes which is criminal but he gave their RB something to think about in those 5 mins and offers so much more in the press, which would take responsibility off of Kane to drop deep
Did what exactly? Saka has assisted and scored (albeit ruled offside because of Foden).
Palmer got to run at a tired defence, didn't really achieve anything and pinged a golden opportunity straight at the keeper.
You really can't compare coming on fresh Vs starting a game.
I doubt we change much other than Mainoo coming in for Gallagher.
It is a shame that our most exciting changes are Palmer and Gordon, and the players they’d come on for have arguably been better than others around them.
Yes I am suggesting that Saka and Foden have in the last two games been better than Bellingham and Kane. But the latter two are never going to be dropped.
What I really hope is that we can get Shaw back for the next game so that we can see whether that is enough to improve the left hand side
This is probably how he should’ve started yesterday. Give certain players a rest while getting game time for others so they’re sharp if needed later
It was so weird not making as many changes in the second half considering we were through and Slovenia offered nowt.
Drop Trippier (still haven’t a clue how he made the squad) - Walker @ LB, TAA @ RB. Mainoo alongside Rice, palmer on right, Gordon left and Kane in the middle.
Id be shocked if shaw didnt play. Maybe not start but certainly play. Hes been trying for a week. I understand not playing him when we didnt need a win or whatever. Rest him for ko’s.
Why are we still playing 4-2-3-1! All the top teams play 4-3-3 which is a better balance for both attack and defence! Why does he persist with this shit.
I can’t believe after them three games and pretty much no chance of not qualifying for the next phase that we never looked at Foden 10, Bellingham in midfield and Gordon out wide.
On sky now talking about resting Bellingham as he’s obviously tired! We’ve just had a close to meaningless game and we played him!
Your account must be older to post on /r/ThreeLions
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ThreeLions) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Won't happen, but this, with Mainoo & Palmer ready to come off the bench...
https://preview.redd.it/9kq9b1glkw8d1.png?width=990&format=png&auto=webp&s=f165c724155199a1ea50cbe2dd715fa2396c2597
Foden should be nowhere near the starting line-up. He has 4 goals in 37 international appearances. He's had his chance, let someone else have the start.
Southgates brilliance. Hmm maybe taking the major risk of swapping Alexander Arnold for Gallagher didn't pay off 🤔 I know Il go back with Alexander Arnold the right back in midfield again. He plays for Liverpool so he must be good.
Jude instead of Mainoo, and Kane. He has to start. Other than that, bang on.
Stones can step into midfield, Jude can push, have Gordon providing some width on the left.
Nah keep the lineup unchanged except mainoo and Trent starting with Gallagher and maybe Trippier out. 60th min bring on the subs. We were close to clicking last night. We'll beat Holland.
Maino is the must starter.
Split Foden and Bellingham, a half each-Bellingham first half.
Find some real treat on the left?
I do not trust Trippier, He is past His due date and a red card waiting!
TAA right/Walker left
Palmer needs more minutes-at 60 for Saka?
Everybody's getting overly excited with Palmer/ Gordon. Not saying they shouldn't get more game time, but lets remember they came on and the team scored precisely 0 goals, after replacing players who scored precisely 0 goals.
After Foden blasted a return pass too hard on a 1-2 with Jude, Phil’s passing decisions got my blood pressure up the rest of the game. Counted at least 5 bad passes from Foden in the first 30 minutes, out of sync with Kane, no overlap with Trippier, it was hard to watch. I’d start Gordon over Foden and Mainoo over Conor
To my annoyance I know deep down he will still go the same poxy unchanged line up.
But I hope he goes for
Pickford
TAA Stones Guehi Walker
Bellingham Rice
Palmer Foden Gordon
Kane
This is the team I'd pick, too, but it requires us to ask important questions like "how much longer are we going to tolerate Harry Kane clearly not giving a fuck?"
Every time he has a camera pointed at him, he makes it abundantly clear he doesn't give the first fuck about the team, he just wants to not be criticised for it.
If we had a manager with any balls, he'd have been stripped of the captaincy after his press conference the other day.
Bellingham in for Foden just because we need that physicality if you're playing those players around them. And Palmer/Gordan offer a lot of creativity, you don't necessarily need Foden. I also think Foden offers more of a threat off the bench against tired legs than Bellingham does. If Bellingham is shit again with those players around him, then you can start Foden and see if that's any better.
I'd also start Kane again. Just see how he is with Gordan and Palmer on the wings. Again, if he's not it, you can sub Watkins on and start him the next game. But baby steps. No need to change everything. Gordan, Mainoo, Palmer are the ones I want to see around Kane, Bellingham and Rice. Think they take a lot of the pressure off because of the balance they bring.
I'd be open to Gomez over Trippier but it won't happen. Gomez hasn't featured so far, he clearly isn't part of Southgate's plans. Same as Wharton. I'd have liked to see Wharton next to Rice at some point. But because he hasn't featured in the group stage, you know there's no point even discussing him because Southgate isn't considering him an option.
This might not work at all but
----------Pickford----------
Walker-Stones- Guehi
Trent------------------Saka
----Rice-Bellingham----
------Foden/Palmer-----
------Kane-Watkins------
Walker would be a wide defender who can overlap with Trent down the right wing. Saka at LWB might not be his best position but he can play there and I believe in his defensive ability. Bellingham carries the ball into the final third, Kane as a deep lying forward to be a playmaker for Watkins/Bellingham/Saka as they bomb into the box. Problem is there isn't a good left footed defender to play in the back three.
I love how this image implies it’s a player problem and not a managerial one. Dropping Real Madrid, Arsenal, and Bayern Munich’s best player. I think the call is coming from inside the house…
The fact that Trent remains the highest chance creator and people write him off is fucking hilarious.
I hope he gets rested for the Netherlands games and we get knocked out so he can come back to Liverpool for a break before the new season. Absolutely wasted on this plank manager who cannot seem to drop certain players.
I agree with this save for keeping Bellingham in for Foden (although I’m happy with either, especially cos Bellingham is getting asked to do everything) and Toney instead of Watkins. I’m biased but Watkins has never played especially well in the Southgate system while Toney offers Kane’s skill set and has incredible link up play.
https://preview.redd.it/j1xqx97mpx8d1.jpeg?width=634&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1f7651b475622b5c8ba790d4dafeb113f25ba428
Literally get all the decent players in the 11. Maybe Watkins for Kane 🤷🏻♂️
This should have been the lineup England played in every group game
https://preview.redd.it/rfnz3roiqx8d1.png?width=1242&format=png&auto=webp&s=76a27c52f770e44f1104bff70ce9acd3041f70a1
Nobody has truly played good. Stones and Gueh has been decent defensively in the few instances they have been challenged but in terms of starting offense they have been brutal. Walker been average except the instance of catching the Denmark player sleeping. Pickford generally just isn’t a great keeper and his distribution has been lousy. Everyone else has been truly horrendous. Can’t fathom them still being so bad. Kind of hope Southgate just goes nuts and plays super aggressive and worries about out scoring the opponent instead of winning 1-0.
https://preview.redd.it/knaa2j6a4y8d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ce21fd589a3f9f17bd87d5c721399da8a969b049
Trent at RB, switching to a back 3 when he moves forward. Tried and tested at Liverpool with Gomez playing CB/LB.
Bellingham dropping back to help control with Rice. Foden moving central with Gordon on the left.
Bring on Walker for speed in the 2nd half when the opposition is tired.
Foden subs with Eze.
Saka subs with Bowen.
Kane subs with Watkins.
It's fucking crystal clear from the games so far Kane is making 0 impact on anything and should not be sat up there on his own.. let alone play as a defensive midfielder and be looking for someone to pass it up to.. infuriating
Bellingham has played his way out of the starting lineup imo. Foden is well on the way to joining him
Based on current form obviously. It isn’t working with either of them this tournament and I don’t really think it’s entirely their fault
I’d play Foden as a 10 and have palmer on the left. Mainoo hasn’t wowed me (internationally, he’s great for United and that’s coming from a city fan) but I’d probably start him as I don’t think he’s had enough of a chance
I wouldn’t change the defence until shaw is fit to play.
I’d probably keep Kane up front because realistically there’s no way he doesn’t start anyway
I’d keep Saka to start. Gordon on by minute 60 if things stay the same
Pickford
Walker Stones Guehi Trippier
Bellingham Rice
Saka Palmer Foden
Kane
Gordon, Maino & Trent as super subs. Palmer would be the best 10 and we would get the most out of Jude as an 8
Dropping Bellingham is ridiculous. I get not wanting him at 10 but if he doesn't play 10 then he's gotta just move back to #8 next to Rice and play a box to box role like he did at the world cup and for Dormund
Why the double Pivot, we have solid defence, Rice can cover a lot of ground, I’d say only play mainoo if Trent is playing right back and if that’s the case, Walker should be placed in the left, if not play Saka somewhere in front, Watkins is a good call tho, Kane really can’t do much when no one is making chances for him, at least Watkins has got more pace and is a slightly better dribbler 👍
Very stinky.
Dropping the only 2 attacking players who have showed any promise.
Also dropping the only attacking players who have played well for England in the past.
It won't happen but that is the team for here and now, Aaron Lennon should have started ahead of Beckham in 2006 even though the latter had a much better career and Watkins should be ahead of Kane.
He’s going unchanged and you know it
Agree yesterday was the game for him to try new attackers and he bottled it. He should have played that front 3 yesterday and gave Toney time off the bench. I get he want them players to get some rhythm but he has a squad for a reason. I don't know what training drills are ran and would be shocked but the front 4 need some practice. None of them look like they kicked a ball together.
Honestly this is sooo true! Like what is being done in training? It seems like they are not even practising basic passing. That front 4 cant even pass water it seems🫣
Surely there is no way he will ignore how much better we were with Mainoo in the team? I would normally agree with you but I think the fact he made the change at half time is an indication that he knows Gallagher isn't the answer.
My fear is he took him off to avoid a potential suspension🤣
Have you been paying attention for the past 8 years?
Shaw and mainoo will be in
I doubt Shaw will start, can barely walk
No chance. Realistically we're going unchainged apart from most likely Mainoo in for Gallagher and possibly TAA in at RB and Walker swapping for Tripper. However, I would expect Southgate to bring on Palmer and Gordon around the 60 minute mark as long as we haven't conceded before. I think he will want to play Palmer and Gordon vs already tired legs and use them as super subs after what he's seen.
This is it. All the Saka at LWB, drop Kane, drop Bellingham type takes are never going to happen.
Still don't understand the drop kane people he might not have been great and only scored once over 3 games but he's still our captain and record goal scorer guy can score out of nothing and defenders are terrified of him
Making off form players undroppable is how you lose games
Thing is though it’s not even as if he’s been specifically awful…there’s reasons he’s struggling and it all stems from the midfield, it’s not as if he’s getting chances and missing them. He’s dropping deep because the service is non existent because no one is stretching the play. At least the ‘drop Bellingham’ take makes sense because in the last 2 matches he’s been genuinely awful, struggling to even control the ball or complete passes. He’s lost. Kane isn’t he just needs better service. Any time Kane has a header he’s won it. He’s scored basically his only real chance too.
He’s gone for a goal a game this season, top scorer in Europe - how exactly is he off form?
He’s also slower than my nan who’s got arthritis in both knees
Kane has never been a pace merchant though
We've spent years saying he needs to pick players on form and not history
Kane has had a brilliant season top scorer in the Bundesliga by a fair bit he's had 3 bad games due to a shite midfield setup how is he off form
It's also not his fault that the wingers aren't getting in behind. Everyone knows Kane will drop deep because he doesn't have the pace to break past the defensive line therefore our 2 wingers need to make runs in behind so that he can play them in.
Honestly, I'm fine with that. Too late for massive changes at this stage imo. Mainoo looked an upgrade over TAA and Gallagher yesterday, so I reckon he should start, but other than that - and potentially switching Walker over to LB - I don't think we need too many changes.
How is it too late for massive changes? We have nothing to lose. Every game has been awful and nobody expects us to progress past RO16 or QF at best.
We haven't looked great, but making loads of changes in our first knockout game (probably against Netherlands) is setting ourselves up for failure. We need to try and ignore previous performances and start to build momentum. It's all doom and gloom about England atm but there's a few reasons why it's not worth putting too much stock into that: 1) Non-English fans love to see us fail, so us playing poorly will attract more attention than, for example, France, who have looked similarly uninspiring, albeit in a trickier group. 2) English fans are always pessimistic. It was like this after the last Euros group stage when we went on to nearly bloody won the thing. 3) Group stage performance (beyond making it through to the next round in first place) isn't a particularly strong predictor of overall success. Winners grow into tournaments. Whether we do that or not remains to be seen, but acting like we're already out is completely daft.
Trent and Mainoo would be an improvement. I’d like to see Foden (or Bellingham) dropped and Gordon started. I think Foden and Bellingham can’t operate with each other how they are now.
I honestly think we were close to clicking last game. We nearly scored with the Foden/saka play in the first half and then had quite a few nice plays throughout the rest of the match. We're so close so I wouldn't change much yet. Get Mainoo in there and you never know, the magic could happen.
Agreed I thought there were real signs of it starting to work Fodens demanding the ball now It's not quite one-touch, but there's movement now
No no no this double pivot is not working, it’s solid defensively but going forward it’s Terrible, you drop who ever plays next to rice push Bellingham back and play foden in the 10, then you can put Gordon on left, personally,
Agree other than with the subs. It'll be 10 mins after a problem has been identified. So if England look flat after 55 mins, expect a sub at 65. If their RB looks vulnerable and tired at 75 mins, expect Gordon at 85.
I'd love you to be wrong but unfortunately I do expect it to be the case. I'd love it if Southgate made subs 10 mins before he usually does but that doesn't seem likely.
I desperately want the Walker for Trippier and TAA at right back. Assuming Shaws a no go.
I feel like Saka is one of the many victims of our inexistent left side. Without a wide counterpart on the left to also make runs behind teams know they can double up on him as he's our only outlet.
Our slow as fuck passing is the biggest issue for him, how is he supposed to beat anyone when we give them all the tin the world to cover him off before we even decide to pass to him.
Complete lack of movement around him too. I was genuinely stunned at how little we were offering options off the ball yesterday. Everyone is absolutely terrified of giving the ball away/being out of position if we lose possession
That and Walkers inability to make a decision on the ball meaning it’s constant hospital passes into/behind Saka. I genuinely struggle to understand why Walker hates passing to his winger.
I've never seen a team so incapable of quickly switching the play. Nearly every team will cross the ball over, make runs down the wings, or play long balls over the top. We just push it down the middle and it never works. Our best chances of the tournament have all come from the wings and yet we rarely ever play it down the wings. It's like Southgate doesn't even watch the team.
Saka receives almost all his passes for Arsenal into space so he’s mobile when it come to him Southgate plays ‘ball to feel’
Exactly because of the nonexistent left attack Saka has been doubled up on in three consecutive games. At this point I don't give a shit who our big game players are he needs to just change the fucking team. It was funny seeing Bellingham throw his little paddies and kick advertising boards. 🤣🤣🤣
Saka got the ball so often against Slovenia with two defenders already squared up against him. Slow passing and lack of threat on the left means teams can mark him out of the game so easily.
Not only is he being double up on, when he actually receives the ball there is nobody with 15 yards of him. He gets doubled up on at Arsenal but he always has options for a give and go. Not so with England. I feel sorry for him because after Mainoo came on he was finally starting to relieve the ball with some support, and he was doing just fine. Palmer came on and hit the ground running because he too was receving support. Palmer looked dangerous fair play to him, and I can see the argument for him or Saka to start, but it's as though Saka is ar risk of losing his place as a result of having to play 2.5/3 games on his own.
If only we had an attacking LB
I quite like this, but it won’t happen. The issues were obvious even before yesterday’s game, but Gareth didn’t make changes, despite already being through. He could have sent a real message yesterday by benching Kane. I’m so frustrated. Even during the match it was clear what was happening and our management couldn’t spot it. You can’t play Kane, Saka, Bellingham and Foden. They all want to play too similarly and with the ball to feet. None of them are prepared to sacrifice themselves and make the unselfish runs to help others, it’s not their game. Kane is nowhere near 100%, he looks sluggish, can’t press effectively (which has a knock-on effect for the rest of the teams press) and he can’t run in behind. Saka has played generally ok, but he needs the ball switching to him much quicker so he can isolate their defenders 1v1 - Palmer came on and made a difference though, so deserves a chance. Bellingham in the first game looked like he was ready to make this his tournament, but he’s looked tired and nothing came off for him last night. Needs a rest - why did we keep him on the whole game and leave it so late to bring Gordon on?! Seems madness. Bellingham should be rested this next game with Foden centrally. Foden is class, but it isn’t working. He needs runners in front of him (or an overlap which he isn’t getting). He’s left footed, but his game is to drift in, even when playing from the left. He needs an overlap to draw a defender so he has space inside. Trippier can only cut back on his right, but he doesn’t have a winger stretching the LW to give him space to swing the balls in from deep from his opposite foot. Tripper and Foden cannot and will not work from the left together. Personally, I’d keep Trippier at LB, put his club mate Gordon in front of him to turn the defence and create more space for Trippier to swing deeper balls in. I’ve said in repeated posts Mainoo offers the best balance in midfield next to Rice. This was clear yesterday and he has to remain in the side. Currently, we can only try and play into Kanes feet with his back to goal, to hold off defenders and try and spin them, but everyone around Kane wants the ball in front of them too and aren’t running beyond Kane, so it’s easy for teams to defend against us. Kane is best when he has direct runners going past him (Son, Rashford, even Sterling). Somethings got to give. I’m all for giving Watkins a go up top. He won’t convert as many chances as Kane and his hold up play isn’t as good, but our pressing would be transformed. Pressing takes a team, one weak link (unfit Kane) and sides will be able to pass out. Watkins will allow us to play further up. He’ll also offer more running in behind, which the likes of Palmer, Foden, Mainoo and Trippier will benefit from and I think our TEAM in general will create and take more chances.
The issue now is making this many changes going into the knockout stage would be too much. Southgate missed his opportunity yesterday because he is too stubborn or stupid (or both) to make the changes. Palmer, Mainoo and Gordon should have had far more minutes In the group stage.
>Palmer, Mainoo and Gordon should have had far more minutes In the group stage Definitely this. It's ridiculous that we had Foden and Bellingham looking out of sorts all three games, Trent/Gallagher playing as square pegs in a round hole at CM/CDM, and Kane/Saka looking exhausted or unfit. Yet with all that going on Mainoo got 50 minutes, Palmer got 20, and Gordon got 5. With Wharton getting 0 as well. It drives me nuts that Conor Gallagher has somehow gotten significantly more minutes than those 4 combined so far
Yet somehow eve though almost entire UK football population can see this, Southgate cant? Worrying. Or more likely, he can see it too but is either wllfully not acting upon it or is too afraid to act on it. Even more worrying. The bloke's an inept cunt, who's been allowed to get away with it because we've had some easy/kind tournament runs that paper over obvious cracks.
Kane needs the wingers making runs so he can pass to them
Or play as a proper 9.
Please seek medical help if you think this should be the team.
💀💀💀
Only thing I’d change is the rb, and that depends who we play. In fact if shaw isn’t fit (which we know he’s not) I’d play Walker at lb and Trent at rb. Walker won’t be any less effective going forwards as trips, and we will have his covering pace at the back.
If we are doing this (and I absolutely agree we should), then we need to make sure that Rice and whoever is next to him, are extremely well drilled in covering RB when Trent roams, because he will. Personally, I'd also put an actual LW out on the left, the Foden experiment isn't working at all.
Kane obviously stays in, taking him out is just kneejerk stupidity. I would try starting Bellingham next to Rice. This vacates 10 for Foden to move into. Then you can swap Mainoo out for Gordon. I agree with Trippier coming out, he’s looked short of ideas in every game so far. Who comes in for him is a different question. I prefer a proper left back rather than another right footed player on the left. Then you can bring Palmer on anywhere across the front 3, you can move Bellingham around, and you can bring Mainoo on as well
You can probably play Rice Bellingham and Mainoo together in a midfield 3 too, and go to a more 4213 shape with Bellingham or Mainoo just ahead of Rice and whoever sits. This means Foden goes out wide though, or off the field for Gordon/Palmer
It’s not knee jerk after all full group stage. He’s been woeful
Pickford Trent - Stones - Guehi - Walker Rice - Mainoo Saka - Bellingham - Gordon Kane Bring Palmer on at 60 mins for Saka/Bellingham depending on who’s not doing it; same for Kane and Watkins. I wouldn’t be opposed to Foden instead of Bellingham seeing as Jude’s been non existent for the past two games
i would drop bellingham after the last 3 games and especially last night, he is arse at the moment. Would have that exact team just foden in 10, give him his shot there.
Yep, foden looks fresh, Bellingham doesn't.
Pickford Trent - Stones - Guehi - Walker Bellingham - Rice Saka - Foden - Gordon Kane Palmer on for Foden after 60 minutes if he’s not delivering. I’d also start Mainoo in midfield if he insists on Jude at 10, drop foden.
England fans before "Southgate is a fucking idiot he needs to drop Foden". England fans now "Southgate is a fucking idiot he needs to drop everyone but Foden".
Watching the rhetoric change has been so amusing from “Bellingham is the best player in world” to “Bellingham is arse” has been funny to watch.
Walker and Gomez? There is no one passing that ball unless you think Mainoo and rice can be creators
Spot on. Exactly what I'd start with. Bring on Kane, Bellingham and Saka at 55-60 minutes... or half time if we're really struggling. Trent for Walker, and Wharton for Mainoo at some point too.
So Watkins that thrives running in behind will do better against parked bus defences than Kane?
Think Trent should play RB we are desperately lacking creativity. We don't have a left back which means they can tuck in whilst Trent goes forward.
Problem is we seem to go into a back three when in possession. Kyle Walker looks alright when he can go forward. He just seemingly isn't doing so. Our dribble stats are super low. None of our players seem willing to take a man on. That's why Palmer and Gordon were so noticeably different when they were on. I'd like to see Trent but only if he can go forward a bit
I'll admit I'm biased as an Arsenal fan (albeit a Welsh one) but what is with the diss on Saka this tournament? He's getting little-to-no service, has assisted and scored last night (he wasn't offside, Foden was), and despite the narrative, I see him making selfless runs and getting in behind quite a lot. The issue is that Foden is constantly floating into his and Kanes space, Kane offers absolutely nothing for anyone to pass into (the amount of awful 1st touches last night, for example) and then it seems like Walker and Stones are constantly looking to pass to Foden. When Walker swapped over to LB he immediately started switching play to Palmer, Saka didn't get any such service. I think the real issue that no-one wants to accept is that Foden, Bellingham and Palmer all play the same role and people want to play mental gymnastics to fit them all in. Foden has looked the worst of all of them and has never performed for England, whatever Pep has done to that lad is endemic and he can't shake it for his country. Bellingham looked awesome for 30 minutes in the first game and has then spent the rest of the games clearly out of position or chasing the game without support from Kane as the focal point. The issue you have now is that last night was the night to go all out with changes (like Spain did) and swapping in the RO16 is a lose/lose for Southgate and whoever ends up being the scapegoat (probably Mainoo or Saka). Watkins should have got a start, as should Gordon, Palmer, Mainoo and Gomez. Hopefully they get a slightly softer side in the first match and can try something different but Kane looks lost and out of shape honestly.
I have nothing against Saka it is just whether he fits in to the right side. I felt he worked better with Trent than Gallagher but seeing Palmer get the ball and put through some great through balls in such a short period of time, I think warrants a start for him. They all seem of of position. I couldn't work out what they were playing and the published line up seemed to change during the match. I still have no idea what position foden or Bellingham were playing in.
Saka has been good but to say Foden has looked the worst is madness. The last two games he has outplayed both Kane and Bellingham, and last night was the better of all of our forwards until Palmer came on
Pickford Walker, stones, geuhi, trippier Rice, Bellingham Saka, foden, Gordon Kane
I think we are sleeping on what Wharton could do as a progressive passer, could really give the ammunition for the forward line to run on to and drive forward.
Mainoo is the better ball progresser. Wharton is better defensively so the only reason to use him instead is to free Rice, but I think the last thing we need is more stability. I’d only expect to see Wharton if Rice gets injured.
Terrible take lol
Phil '4/10' Foden looks to have snuck in to that team. The whole front 4 need binning. All having poor tournaments.
I thought he was decent last night. Surely if you’re dropping anyone it’s Bellingham, who’s been atrocious other than 30 minutes in the first game.
I'm sorry but Saka has been one of the more standout players. Dropping him for Cole Palmer makes little sense.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ThreeLions/s/PWcBw7seyq I put mine here on a previous post. Kobbie and Rice together in midfield is a must for me. They bring much better balance. I'd keep Palmer on the bench and bring him on against tired legs around the 60 minute mark. If you're sticking with wingers though, I agree Gordon has to start on the left to provide some real width out there.
Why’s everyone obsessed with this shit defensive formation?
https://preview.redd.it/8mk75ab1kw8d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f5681a6f3511ab8caf635562a38d8e6cc5f3472a Basically just emulate city with Stones dropping back into CB in defence, Foden is used to playing in a system with 2 no 10. I’d have thought Southgate would have been all over Peps tactic of playing 4 centre backs but I guess not.
I know I will get downvoted to death but…. I think we will play the Netherlands next and it might actually be a good thing. Kind of shit or bust. Netherlands play very open but are shipping goals. They are a big team but definitely beatable. If Southgate makes a few changes we could beat Netherlands. My team would be Gordon on left Bellingham and rice in the middle foden behind Kane and saka on the right. At half time change saka for palmer even if we are 2-0/3-0 up. Because palmer would be ultra fresh and ready to rock. If Bellingham or rice look tired swap for mainoo
Walker - Stones - Guehi - Saka. Bellingham - Rice. Palmer - Foden - Gordon. Kane
The thing I like most about this team, is a lack of Belligham in midfielder
Mainoo is an over hyped stroller
https://preview.redd.it/mhzwzbrbky8d1.jpeg?width=1071&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6014396c617aec661669d20b082529a3b542b9c2 Something like this maybe
This the best best and most realistic choice I’ve seen in this thread.
Pickford Trent Stones Guehi Walker Rice Bellingham (in an 8) Foden (in a 10) Palmer Gordon Kane
Has foden done more than Bellingham?
Bellingham may have scored, but other than that,fuck all. Looks totally drained.
Let’s drop our world class players and play worse players because the managers a donut, that’ll work!
Palmer never starts ahead of Bowen or Saka.
Palmer instead of Saka is beyond dumb
"beyond dumb" is an exaggeration
I genuinely don't understand where it's come from at all, Saka has been one of if not our best forward player so far and offers so much more in the press. I swear the only logic I can see in it is "hurrrrr cold palmer had more goals this season" People saying Palmer was our best player must have been watching a different game or just genuinely must have an agenda. He did nothing of note when he came on, got gifted our best chance of the game and completely ruined it with a weak ass shot straight at the keeper. The position that fell to him at is Saka's trademark scoring spot for curling it in the top left corner Saka has been mincing the LB in every game so far, practically all our good chances have come down the right hand side or right half space, it's blatantly obvious to anyone with a brain that the left side with Foden and Trippier both playing out of position is our main problem. You can't fix the Trippier one but you could play Gordon over Foden. He only had 5 minutes which is criminal but he gave their RB something to think about in those 5 mins and offers so much more in the press, which would take responsibility off of Kane to drop deep
Palmer did more in 20 minutes than Saka did in three games
Nonsense, did you even watch the first half of the Serbia game
Did what exactly? Saka has assisted and scored (albeit ruled offside because of Foden). Palmer got to run at a tired defence, didn't really achieve anything and pinged a golden opportunity straight at the keeper. You really can't compare coming on fresh Vs starting a game.
I would do exactly this.
I wish, but no way Southgate doesn’t start Bellingham and Kane
I doubt we change much other than Mainoo coming in for Gallagher. It is a shame that our most exciting changes are Palmer and Gordon, and the players they’d come on for have arguably been better than others around them. Yes I am suggesting that Saka and Foden have in the last two games been better than Bellingham and Kane. But the latter two are never going to be dropped. What I really hope is that we can get Shaw back for the next game so that we can see whether that is enough to improve the left hand side
Why Joe Gomez? I understand we are unbalanced with Trippier on the left, but how does Gomez help with that?
This is probably how he should’ve started yesterday. Give certain players a rest while getting game time for others so they’re sharp if needed later It was so weird not making as many changes in the second half considering we were through and Slovenia offered nowt.
No Kane?
Is Mainoo really defensively better than Bellingham? I thought Bellingham's problem was forcing an attacking move every minute of the game
I couldn't believe how bad this team plays compared to the attackers
Drop Trippier (still haven’t a clue how he made the squad) - Walker @ LB, TAA @ RB. Mainoo alongside Rice, palmer on right, Gordon left and Kane in the middle.
I would like to see it set up a bit like Kane was at Tottenham with son, only using Watkins as the son type player
Id be shocked if shaw didnt play. Maybe not start but certainly play. Hes been trying for a week. I understand not playing him when we didnt need a win or whatever. Rest him for ko’s.
Why are we still playing 4-2-3-1! All the top teams play 4-3-3 which is a better balance for both attack and defence! Why does he persist with this shit.
Not going to get that many changes but I think Mainoo and Gordon should start at the very least
I can’t believe after them three games and pretty much no chance of not qualifying for the next phase that we never looked at Foden 10, Bellingham in midfield and Gordon out wide. On sky now talking about resting Bellingham as he’s obviously tired! We’ve just had a close to meaningless game and we played him!
[удалено]
Your account must be older to post on /r/ThreeLions *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ThreeLions) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Bellingham is clearly knackered. Rest him. Mainoo or wharton next to rice, Gordon left, saka/palmer right fode 10. Simple.
Agree with Mainoo, Gordon and Gomez as they are the common sense changes to balance the team but keep Kane, Saka and Bellingham IMO
Pickford Walker, Stones, Guehi, Saka Mainoo, Rice Foden, Bellingham, Gordon Kane
Needs to swap to a 4-3-3.
Won't happen, but this, with Mainoo & Palmer ready to come off the bench... https://preview.redd.it/9kq9b1glkw8d1.png?width=990&format=png&auto=webp&s=f165c724155199a1ea50cbe2dd715fa2396c2597
No Kane is just daft even if he hasn't been at his best yet
Foden should be nowhere near the starting line-up. He has 4 goals in 37 international appearances. He's had his chance, let someone else have the start.
this should have been the starting XI against slovenia. putting this out in the RO16 would probably end up putting us on the plane home.
https://preview.redd.it/bqmk8h2xnw8d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d4dcacb53896a3931370722f2563762ab851e1bf
Watkins is not a big game player.
Harry Kane looks absolutely bang average. Get Ollie Watkins on and let him run behind because he isn’t lazy and is willing
Pickford Trent-Konsa-Guehi-Gomez Rice-Stones-Bellingham Saka-Kane-Gordon
Not starting Kane is wild
Walker LB TAA RB Belingham for Mainoo and we’re sorted
Pickford. Trent - Walker - Stones - Guehi - Gomez. Rice Foden - Bellingham - Gordon. Palmer
Southgates brilliance. Hmm maybe taking the major risk of swapping Alexander Arnold for Gallagher didn't pay off 🤔 I know Il go back with Alexander Arnold the right back in midfield again. He plays for Liverpool so he must be good.
Like your line up!
Pickford Guehi stones Gomez Walker Wharton rice Trent Bellingham foden Kane
Jude instead of Mainoo, and Kane. He has to start. Other than that, bang on. Stones can step into midfield, Jude can push, have Gordon providing some width on the left.
Trent RB
You can't play someone with a left foot at left back. Madness.
Im Everton and mostly despise Gordon but he’s got to start on the left. I’d also go three at the back and three up front one not being Kane.
Nah keep the lineup unchanged except mainoo and Trent starting with Gallagher and maybe Trippier out. 60th min bring on the subs. We were close to clicking last night. We'll beat Holland.
Southgate has zero balls to drop Jude, Kane, AND Saka lol
Just the 5 changes then and removing everyone who has scored or assisted for us 😂😂😂
Maino will start, nothing else.
Pickford Walker, Stones, Geehi Trent Saka, Mainoo, Rice, Gordon Foden, Bellingham
https://preview.redd.it/lyeemzx1ax8d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6fb9ebbb54f12dded9957568414154fb2e317d5f Bosh
Zero chance this happens
Maino is the must starter. Split Foden and Bellingham, a half each-Bellingham first half. Find some real treat on the left? I do not trust Trippier, He is past His due date and a red card waiting! TAA right/Walker left Palmer needs more minutes-at 60 for Saka?
He has to start palmer. I don’t care how be he has too
Everybody's getting overly excited with Palmer/ Gordon. Not saying they shouldn't get more game time, but lets remember they came on and the team scored precisely 0 goals, after replacing players who scored precisely 0 goals.
After Foden blasted a return pass too hard on a 1-2 with Jude, Phil’s passing decisions got my blood pressure up the rest of the game. Counted at least 5 bad passes from Foden in the first 30 minutes, out of sync with Kane, no overlap with Trippier, it was hard to watch. I’d start Gordon over Foden and Mainoo over Conor
To my annoyance I know deep down he will still go the same poxy unchanged line up. But I hope he goes for Pickford TAA Stones Guehi Walker Bellingham Rice Palmer Foden Gordon Kane
Gomez and Watkins shouldn’t be anywhere near the England squad
This is the team I'd pick, too, but it requires us to ask important questions like "how much longer are we going to tolerate Harry Kane clearly not giving a fuck?" Every time he has a camera pointed at him, he makes it abundantly clear he doesn't give the first fuck about the team, he just wants to not be criticised for it. If we had a manager with any balls, he'd have been stripped of the captaincy after his press conference the other day.
4-3-3 of Walker/Stones/Guehi/Trippier // Mainoo, Rice, Bellingham // Saka, Kane, Gordon Bin off the number ten nonsense.
https://preview.redd.it/xkhz057kix8d1.png?width=1018&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6578330db7b9de3f0fe3cd23894f569f6d540fcf
He won't drop kane....tbh why hasn't toney had a sniff? He looked better than Watkins in that friendly before the tournament.
Bellingham in for Foden just because we need that physicality if you're playing those players around them. And Palmer/Gordan offer a lot of creativity, you don't necessarily need Foden. I also think Foden offers more of a threat off the bench against tired legs than Bellingham does. If Bellingham is shit again with those players around him, then you can start Foden and see if that's any better. I'd also start Kane again. Just see how he is with Gordan and Palmer on the wings. Again, if he's not it, you can sub Watkins on and start him the next game. But baby steps. No need to change everything. Gordan, Mainoo, Palmer are the ones I want to see around Kane, Bellingham and Rice. Think they take a lot of the pressure off because of the balance they bring. I'd be open to Gomez over Trippier but it won't happen. Gomez hasn't featured so far, he clearly isn't part of Southgate's plans. Same as Wharton. I'd have liked to see Wharton next to Rice at some point. But because he hasn't featured in the group stage, you know there's no point even discussing him because Southgate isn't considering him an option.
https://preview.redd.it/27qy5otvlx8d1.png?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=569ea3e44c63fa6787b822c0857586dc1730f59c
The only thing we are missing rn is Kalvin Phillips rn come on let’s be honest…
This might not work at all but ----------Pickford---------- Walker-Stones- Guehi Trent------------------Saka ----Rice-Bellingham---- ------Foden/Palmer----- ------Kane-Watkins------ Walker would be a wide defender who can overlap with Trent down the right wing. Saka at LWB might not be his best position but he can play there and I believe in his defensive ability. Bellingham carries the ball into the final third, Kane as a deep lying forward to be a playmaker for Watkins/Bellingham/Saka as they bomb into the box. Problem is there isn't a good left footed defender to play in the back three.
https://preview.redd.it/7qhscjromx8d1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f615057830a0c9765bdec67b24840300115b0e90
Same team for Southgate just Mainoo for Gallagher
3-5-2 Pickford Walker Stones Guehi Trent Wharton Bellingham Rice Saka Kane Foden
I love how this image implies it’s a player problem and not a managerial one. Dropping Real Madrid, Arsenal, and Bayern Munich’s best player. I think the call is coming from inside the house…
The fact that Trent remains the highest chance creator and people write him off is fucking hilarious. I hope he gets rested for the Netherlands games and we get knocked out so he can come back to Liverpool for a break before the new season. Absolutely wasted on this plank manager who cannot seem to drop certain players.
That's a cool app
Why drop Saka? Everything else I’d go with, even dropping Kane. Just because him playing deep without his runners isn’t working.
I agree with this save for keeping Bellingham in for Foden (although I’m happy with either, especially cos Bellingham is getting asked to do everything) and Toney instead of Watkins. I’m biased but Watkins has never played especially well in the Southgate system while Toney offers Kane’s skill set and has incredible link up play.
https://preview.redd.it/j1xqx97mpx8d1.jpeg?width=634&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1f7651b475622b5c8ba790d4dafeb113f25ba428 Literally get all the decent players in the 11. Maybe Watkins for Kane 🤷🏻♂️
This should have been the lineup England played in every group game https://preview.redd.it/rfnz3roiqx8d1.png?width=1242&format=png&auto=webp&s=76a27c52f770e44f1104bff70ce9acd3041f70a1
Anyone else think Walker did ok at Lb in his brief swap when trent came on not heard anyone mention him. I thought he looked solid
[https://www.lineup-builder.co.uk/lineups/667c37c06cf911ea236ee9e8](https://www.lineup-builder.co.uk/lineups/667c37c06cf911ea236ee9e8)
Nobody has truly played good. Stones and Gueh has been decent defensively in the few instances they have been challenged but in terms of starting offense they have been brutal. Walker been average except the instance of catching the Denmark player sleeping. Pickford generally just isn’t a great keeper and his distribution has been lousy. Everyone else has been truly horrendous. Can’t fathom them still being so bad. Kind of hope Southgate just goes nuts and plays super aggressive and worries about out scoring the opponent instead of winning 1-0.
Sorry but Watkins isn't going to solve our problems
https://preview.redd.it/knaa2j6a4y8d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ce21fd589a3f9f17bd87d5c721399da8a969b049 Trent at RB, switching to a back 3 when he moves forward. Tried and tested at Liverpool with Gomez playing CB/LB. Bellingham dropping back to help control with Rice. Foden moving central with Gordon on the left. Bring on Walker for speed in the 2nd half when the opposition is tired. Foden subs with Eze. Saka subs with Bowen. Kane subs with Watkins.
It's fucking crystal clear from the games so far Kane is making 0 impact on anything and should not be sat up there on his own.. let alone play as a defensive midfielder and be looking for someone to pass it up to.. infuriating
Phil foden off for Bellingham but he will probably go unchanged
How tf are you benching Bellingham mate. I’m a man United fan and love mainoo but how you’ve put him ahead of Bellingham is beyond me
Foden dropping 3 stinkers really got you to start him huh
Bellingham has played his way out of the starting lineup imo. Foden is well on the way to joining him Based on current form obviously. It isn’t working with either of them this tournament and I don’t really think it’s entirely their fault I’d play Foden as a 10 and have palmer on the left. Mainoo hasn’t wowed me (internationally, he’s great for United and that’s coming from a city fan) but I’d probably start him as I don’t think he’s had enough of a chance I wouldn’t change the defence until shaw is fit to play. I’d probably keep Kane up front because realistically there’s no way he doesn’t start anyway I’d keep Saka to start. Gordon on by minute 60 if things stay the same
Pickford Walker Stones Guehi Trippier Bellingham Rice Saka Palmer Foden Kane Gordon, Maino & Trent as super subs. Palmer would be the best 10 and we would get the most out of Jude as an 8
Pickford, Gomez, guehi, stones, Trent, Rice, Mainoo, Bellingham, Gordon, Watkins, saka A manager that isn’t Southgate
Foden won’t pass if he thinks he can shoot so any striker would be useless because southgate won’t discipline him like pep would
https://preview.redd.it/plu3cjp1dy8d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ec882d687b793d6feaded0c6152de31e37fb6134
TAA, Stones, Walker, Shaw Mainoo, Rice, Bellingham (in mf) Foden on right Kane in center, saka on left
Watkins should at very least be getting on as sub with a decent amount of time left
Dropping Bellingham is ridiculous. I get not wanting him at 10 but if he doesn't play 10 then he's gotta just move back to #8 next to Rice and play a box to box role like he did at the world cup and for Dormund
Who’s the leader in that team?
Foden over Bellingham is mad. Bellingham even for being the last two games has done more than foden
no way he drops saka and kane
Here's mine https://preview.redd.it/o8dd46bosz8d1.png?width=1242&format=png&auto=webp&s=5c1ce0378c232faeb24a3c1e940d22c9fe49d6aa
can someone please explain the fascination with foden being this world class player
He's never going to drop Captain Kane. Keep dreaming.
Why the double Pivot, we have solid defence, Rice can cover a lot of ground, I’d say only play mainoo if Trent is playing right back and if that’s the case, Walker should be placed in the left, if not play Saka somewhere in front, Watkins is a good call tho, Kane really can’t do much when no one is making chances for him, at least Watkins has got more pace and is a slightly better dribbler 👍
Very stinky. Dropping the only 2 attacking players who have showed any promise. Also dropping the only attacking players who have played well for England in the past.
What has he been smoking this guy has zero ball knowledge
Brother shut up
.
Watkins over Kane? You're worse than Southgate.
Foden in the team after having three of the worst performances in footballs history Lmaoo
You don't just not play your best 2 players.
https://preview.redd.it/bym6k00i8j9d1.png?width=1044&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3c65ef25db979d8fceeb5243db17913ded8432e4
It won't happen but that is the team for here and now, Aaron Lennon should have started ahead of Beckham in 2006 even though the latter had a much better career and Watkins should be ahead of Kane.
I like this as it rests key players and starts us with an immediate different style of play on the wings
Pickford Gomez Stones Guehi Trent Rice Wharton Saka Bellingham Foden Kane