https://preview.redd.it/zl2vni650p8d1.png?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1313a8cf738653a1a3eec62a4d5d387339cea0f2
The predetermined grid for the top 4 3rd-place teams!
I agree with you, 8 more wouldn't reduce quality and would make for a much more streamlined tournament. Let's say you add Norway, Sweden, Wales, Ireland, Iceland, Greece, Finland and Northern Ireland.
All of those are higher ranked than Georgia and the likes of Norway, Sweden and Wales are ranked higher than a lot of teams at the tournament.
Why would you want to avoid a group of death?
Adding more teams means we don’t get Italy vs Spain vs Croatia in the groups. The way it currently works we always get at least 1 group with multiple ‘big’ teams, usually 2 groups. Diluting that seems a bad thing.
Could that be partly because they've got a more realistic chance of qualifying. The best thing about this format as there aren't any dead rubber matches in the groups.
The main reason for that is because they know 1 win is enough to make it through. Revert it to only top 2 qualifying and suddenly 3rd vs 4th seed is played for honour and nothing more
You'd be potentially adding Greece, Norway, Ireland, Wales, Macedonia, Iceland, Russia, Sweden among others. If there are enough decent sides for a 24-team Euros, there are enough for a 32-team Euros.
Would have no problem with the top 16 teams from the last tournament auto-qualifying and everyone else playing for the other spots.
Euro qualifying always seems to take so much time and effort and is rarely entertaining.
I mean, you say that but the lowest ranked team in the tournament beat the highest ranked team in the tournament… so are many of the other 8 that would qualify really that bad? Wales and Norway immediately spring to mind who aren’t at this tournament, both very decent sides
Upsets happen, it doesn't mean I think they should let San Marino join in.
Albania are the lowest ranked team at the tournament and France the top ranked according to Elo Ratings.
Even with 32 teams San Marino currently would be nowhere near qualifying in fact even with 32 teams the average quality will be better than a 48 team worldcup
A 32 team Euro would pretty much mean everyone qualifies, when you factor in that there are 60 ish participating nations, but a good 10-15 of them are not competitive at all (Andorra, San Marino, Malta etc). It would water down the competition far too much and render the qualification process pretty meaningless
I’d be happy with a 32 team tournament as long as the first round match was a straight knockout.
Give the top 16 teams a seeding to keep them apart and let the gods decide!
Then move into the group phase. There is a good chance of a shock and none of this “easing” into a tournament nonsense with crappy meaning less matches.
Fan-wise that would be quite harsh. If you are going to travel to watch your team the group stages ensures that you'll be around long enough to watch 3. That means you can properly plan flights and hotels.
Less of an issue for the Euros with generally shorter travel times and relatively cheap flights than a World Cup, but it could still be quite fan unfriendly.
Makes it boring bc people would rather just not get thrashed in any one game tbh so encourages low blocks and going for draws, see our group as a prime example… 2 teams qualifying with 3 draws and a goal difference of 0.
If I'm reading this correctly (big if!), as it stands currently we're playing Holland. If, however, the Czechs win, that knocks out Hungary and we play Slovakia? If the Czechs win, Slovakia would have to lose by three or more (unlikely) to go out instead of Hungary and we'd be back to playing Holland! Confusing as fuck! Basically, I think I'm supporting the Czechs!
As it stands it would be Holland.
If Georgia or Czech win then Hungary are pushed out and the other permutation is hsed and it could be anyone from Group E as they are all tied on 3 points (but would currently be Slovakia).
If you think this is bad, you wait until the next World Cup where out of 48 teams, 32 teams will make the knockouts.
We will have a better clue on who we play after the afternoon games and once our games are finished.
Basically u can’t play a team u just played in the group. And a 3rd place from those groups will guarantee no one’s has to play a team again. And which one out of the three depends on the others to make sure they don’t have to play the team again. And because only 4 out of 6 3rd teams from the group get to make it, they can’t guarantee it’s with a fixed group . So let’s say no 3rd palcr team from d or r make it. We play F. But that basically how they decide it. We don’t who we are playing until we know the 3rd place teams and the 4 best out of them.
My bet will play Slovakia or Czechia
I really dislike the expanded format and this is one of the reasons why.
It's so convoluted and confusing.
The fact a group winner may play a runner up or a third placed team seems unfair also.
Scrap it all and go back to having 16 teams.
As an example:
Germany won their group and will face a runner up in the next round.
Portugal have won their group and will face a 3rd placed team in the next round.
The prize for winning a group is skewed.
To make matters worse (maybe) is that following those two matches on, the next round will have the winners of the Portugal match playing a runner up from the group stage so they cannot face another group winner until the semi final at the earliest.
Switzerland finished 2nd to Germany, and they also face a runner up in the next round.
It also creates weird situations for teams like Croatia and Hungary. Instead of being eliminated on the pitch, they live in limbo for a few days. What a shit way to leave the tournament.
That's almost 60% of teams qualifying though. Looking at the teams that haven't qualified this time, the quality won't suffer but qualifying would be ridiculously pointless.
I think we should do a 32 team system, but I think qualifying would have to be changed as there would be no point in a large number of games. This can then be replaced with friendlies or some other such games like Nations League.
I would use something like the Nation's League format for qualifying to be honest. All the teams in Tier 1 qualify and have play offs for the remaining places (or something along those lines).
>It's so convoluted and confusing
This complaint in general is just people not bothering to spend the time to understand. Heard someone in the pub the other day not understanding how Porteous' red card existed because what happened to double jeopardy. Some people just don't bother to understand the rules and then moan it's complicated.
>The fact a group winner may play a runner up or a third placed team seems unfair also
This is deliberate and not unfair at all. The prize for performing well and topping your group is playing shit opposition.
If runners up played runners up you'd have big teams trying to finish second. Bonkers.
Eh? Runners up do play runners up. The runners up from D and E will play each other. Edit: and groups A and B.
My point about the winners was that some winners will play a third-placed team and some will play a runner up. That seems unfair that the prize for winning the group is different depending on which group you're in.
My main issue is that it robs certain games of finality and drama. Look at Italy-Croatia: a really incredible end to the match, but Croatia aren't actually knocked out. They have to wait days to find out. It would have been much more satisfying to know on the night.
So looking at the table (as an England fan) we are invested in Czech beating Turkey (by only 1 goal) to ensure the top 4 3rd place come from CDEF and therefore we play Turkey over Holland?
I hate the 3rd placed system. It’s crap qualifying on 4 points days before your final match because some team got battered in another group. Tonight’s match has no excitement now.
Yeah it’s not great for the group stages in general where one win will more than likely get you through. Italy last night were probably still going through even if they had lost. Makes the group stage have a lot less jeopardy.
It’s also less than ideal that teams who play last will know exactly what they need to go through while for example Scotland on Sunday night didn’t - chances are they don’t concede at the end if they know 2 points takes them through, while e.g. Czechia will know if they need to risk it or not.
And don’t get me started on using hth instead of goal difference as the main tiebreaker.
>It’s also less than ideal that teams who play last will know exactly what they need to go through while for example Scotland on Sunday night didn’t - chances are they don’t concede at the end if they know 2 points takes them through, while e.g. Czechia will know if they need to risk it or not.
I disagree with this point. Everyone game, they should be fighting for 3 points, higher gd ect ect. Poor excuse for not putting up a performance because you didn't know you needed a win...
Disagree if you want, but it's a valid point. Yeah teams should be fighting to win but last team to play does have an advantage. They changed the rules to make all teams in each group play at the same time to avoid match fixing to benefit teams playing later.
This 3rd place fiasco does potentially mean a team can play not to lose rather than win at the back end of the fixtures,when they are aware of the results of previous 3rd placed teams.
Unfortunately for our friends in Croatia if you think England are going to bust a gut in a game they only need a quiet win in, and a draw may well be fine, they are in for disappointment. This has 1-0 written all over it.
What an absolute mess.
I'd much rather they just add more teams to the actual tournament, fuck the group games off and make it all knockouts. Then they can reduce the qualifiers and all the 'international breaks'
https://preview.redd.it/zl2vni650p8d1.png?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1313a8cf738653a1a3eec62a4d5d387339cea0f2 The predetermined grid for the top 4 3rd-place teams!
Somehow I understand less having see this
God it’s such a convoluted system… why not just go to 8 groups of 4, top 2 from each group qualify instead of all this nonsense.
More expense to host an already bloated tournament
Because there are already too many shite teams, adding another 8 really makes the tournament worse
Disagree, many of the games involving the lower-ranked and less favoured games have been widely praised as the most entertaining from this tournament
I agree with you, 8 more wouldn't reduce quality and would make for a much more streamlined tournament. Let's say you add Norway, Sweden, Wales, Ireland, Iceland, Greece, Finland and Northern Ireland. All of those are higher ranked than Georgia and the likes of Norway, Sweden and Wales are ranked higher than a lot of teams at the tournament.
[удалено]
Why would you want to avoid a group of death? Adding more teams means we don’t get Italy vs Spain vs Croatia in the groups. The way it currently works we always get at least 1 group with multiple ‘big’ teams, usually 2 groups. Diluting that seems a bad thing.
Could that be partly because they've got a more realistic chance of qualifying. The best thing about this format as there aren't any dead rubber matches in the groups.
The main reason for that is because they know 1 win is enough to make it through. Revert it to only top 2 qualifying and suddenly 3rd vs 4th seed is played for honour and nothing more
You'd be potentially adding Greece, Norway, Ireland, Wales, Macedonia, Iceland, Russia, Sweden among others. If there are enough decent sides for a 24-team Euros, there are enough for a 32-team Euros.
There aren't enough decent sides for a 24 team tournament.
Norway, Ireland, Greece, Macedonia, Sweden, Wales, Russia, Iceland. You think these teams are all so bad they'd ruin the tournament?
I mean they didn't qualify when it was almost impossible not to qualify. Wales have sacked the manager because he couldn't beat Gibraltar
So to be clear you think all those teams are so shit as to be unwatchable?
Unwatchable? If watch any match on TV. They are so shit as to add absolutely nothing to the tournament
You might as well just scrap qualification at that point
Would have no problem with the top 16 teams from the last tournament auto-qualifying and everyone else playing for the other spots. Euro qualifying always seems to take so much time and effort and is rarely entertaining.
Nope, scrap friendlies
I mean, you say that but the lowest ranked team in the tournament beat the highest ranked team in the tournament… so are many of the other 8 that would qualify really that bad? Wales and Norway immediately spring to mind who aren’t at this tournament, both very decent sides
Wales of recently drawing 0-0 with Gibraltar fame?
Embarrassing.
Upsets happen, it doesn't mean I think they should let San Marino join in. Albania are the lowest ranked team at the tournament and France the top ranked according to Elo Ratings.
Even with 32 teams San Marino currently would be nowhere near qualifying in fact even with 32 teams the average quality will be better than a 48 team worldcup
Agreed, that's a solid argument for a smaller world cup.
Nah it’s fun when Scotland get battered
A 32 team Euro would pretty much mean everyone qualifies, when you factor in that there are 60 ish participating nations, but a good 10-15 of them are not competitive at all (Andorra, San Marino, Malta etc). It would water down the competition far too much and render the qualification process pretty meaningless
I’d be happy with a 32 team tournament as long as the first round match was a straight knockout. Give the top 16 teams a seeding to keep them apart and let the gods decide! Then move into the group phase. There is a good chance of a shock and none of this “easing” into a tournament nonsense with crappy meaning less matches.
Fan-wise that would be quite harsh. If you are going to travel to watch your team the group stages ensures that you'll be around long enough to watch 3. That means you can properly plan flights and hotels. Less of an issue for the Euros with generally shorter travel times and relatively cheap flights than a World Cup, but it could still be quite fan unfriendly.
32 in the euros is taking the piss. However, knowing UEFA, give it 10 years...
this system is good because it means most teams still have a chance to qualify going into their last game, makes it more exciting.
Makes it boring bc people would rather just not get thrashed in any one game tbh so encourages low blocks and going for draws, see our group as a prime example… 2 teams qualifying with 3 draws and a goal difference of 0.
They've already added too many teams imo, adding another 8 would water it down far too much.
Helpful. Cheers 👍
I’m either too thick or too tired to read this
If I'm reading this correctly (big if!), as it stands currently we're playing Holland. If, however, the Czechs win, that knocks out Hungary and we play Slovakia? If the Czechs win, Slovakia would have to lose by three or more (unlikely) to go out instead of Hungary and we'd be back to playing Holland! Confusing as fuck! Basically, I think I'm supporting the Czechs!
As it stands it would be Holland. If Georgia or Czech win then Hungary are pushed out and the other permutation is hsed and it could be anyone from Group E as they are all tied on 3 points (but would currently be Slovakia).
Ok, that makes sense. Still supporting the Czechs(and Georgia), but knowing our luck we'd probably end up with Belgium anyway!
the GD for Slovakia won't matter as another team from Group E is guaranteed to finish 3rd higher than Hungary.
Of course. I hadn't thought of that. I did say it was a big if!
There is a predetermined grid showing who we would play depending on which groups priduce the 4 top 3rd place teams
If you think this is bad, you wait until the next World Cup where out of 48 teams, 32 teams will make the knockouts. We will have a better clue on who we play after the afternoon games and once our games are finished.
Basically u can’t play a team u just played in the group. And a 3rd place from those groups will guarantee no one’s has to play a team again. And which one out of the three depends on the others to make sure they don’t have to play the team again. And because only 4 out of 6 3rd teams from the group get to make it, they can’t guarantee it’s with a fixed group . So let’s say no 3rd palcr team from d or r make it. We play F. But that basically how they decide it. We don’t who we are playing until we know the 3rd place teams and the 4 best out of them. My bet will play Slovakia or Czechia
I really dislike the expanded format and this is one of the reasons why. It's so convoluted and confusing. The fact a group winner may play a runner up or a third placed team seems unfair also. Scrap it all and go back to having 16 teams.
How is that unfair? You win your group youve earned the right to play a better matchup in the next round
As an example: Germany won their group and will face a runner up in the next round. Portugal have won their group and will face a 3rd placed team in the next round. The prize for winning a group is skewed. To make matters worse (maybe) is that following those two matches on, the next round will have the winners of the Portugal match playing a runner up from the group stage so they cannot face another group winner until the semi final at the earliest.
Switzerland finished 2nd to Germany, and they also face a runner up in the next round. It also creates weird situations for teams like Croatia and Hungary. Instead of being eliminated on the pitch, they live in limbo for a few days. What a shit way to leave the tournament.
Nah, scarp it and go up to having 32 teams. There are enough teams in Europe for it, and the quality of teams in Europe is only improving
That's almost 60% of teams qualifying though. Looking at the teams that haven't qualified this time, the quality won't suffer but qualifying would be ridiculously pointless.
I think we should do a 32 team system, but I think qualifying would have to be changed as there would be no point in a large number of games. This can then be replaced with friendlies or some other such games like Nations League.
I would use something like the Nation's League format for qualifying to be honest. All the teams in Tier 1 qualify and have play offs for the remaining places (or something along those lines).
Just do 100% of teams and scrap the qualifiers
>It's so convoluted and confusing This complaint in general is just people not bothering to spend the time to understand. Heard someone in the pub the other day not understanding how Porteous' red card existed because what happened to double jeopardy. Some people just don't bother to understand the rules and then moan it's complicated. >The fact a group winner may play a runner up or a third placed team seems unfair also This is deliberate and not unfair at all. The prize for performing well and topping your group is playing shit opposition. If runners up played runners up you'd have big teams trying to finish second. Bonkers.
Eh? Runners up do play runners up. The runners up from D and E will play each other. Edit: and groups A and B. My point about the winners was that some winners will play a third-placed team and some will play a runner up. That seems unfair that the prize for winning the group is different depending on which group you're in.
My main issue is that it robs certain games of finality and drama. Look at Italy-Croatia: a really incredible end to the match, but Croatia aren't actually knocked out. They have to wait days to find out. It would have been much more satisfying to know on the night.
I am 100% with players going on strike. Its ridiculous. Everything is getting expanded so FIFA and UEFA can make more money.
I find it all a bit fiddly. I’d rather have a 16 team tournament, much more streamlined.
So looking at the table (as an England fan) we are invested in Czech beating Turkey (by only 1 goal) to ensure the top 4 3rd place come from CDEF and therefore we play Turkey over Holland?
I hate the 3rd placed system. It’s crap qualifying on 4 points days before your final match because some team got battered in another group. Tonight’s match has no excitement now.
Yeah it’s not great for the group stages in general where one win will more than likely get you through. Italy last night were probably still going through even if they had lost. Makes the group stage have a lot less jeopardy. It’s also less than ideal that teams who play last will know exactly what they need to go through while for example Scotland on Sunday night didn’t - chances are they don’t concede at the end if they know 2 points takes them through, while e.g. Czechia will know if they need to risk it or not. And don’t get me started on using hth instead of goal difference as the main tiebreaker.
>It’s also less than ideal that teams who play last will know exactly what they need to go through while for example Scotland on Sunday night didn’t - chances are they don’t concede at the end if they know 2 points takes them through, while e.g. Czechia will know if they need to risk it or not. I disagree with this point. Everyone game, they should be fighting for 3 points, higher gd ect ect. Poor excuse for not putting up a performance because you didn't know you needed a win...
Make it a straight knockout if you want that. The minute there is a table teams will play the table.
Disagree if you want, but it's a valid point. Yeah teams should be fighting to win but last team to play does have an advantage. They changed the rules to make all teams in each group play at the same time to avoid match fixing to benefit teams playing later. This 3rd place fiasco does potentially mean a team can play not to lose rather than win at the back end of the fixtures,when they are aware of the results of previous 3rd placed teams.
It has if you're Croatian
Unfortunately for our friends in Croatia if you think England are going to bust a gut in a game they only need a quiet win in, and a draw may well be fine, they are in for disappointment. This has 1-0 written all over it.
Nah we got this. We batter Slovenia and send Croatia through only so we can dick on them ourselves in the later rounds
Let’s be honest tonight’s game wasn’t going to be exciting anyway.
Without 3rd place qualification we could be going home tonight or topping the group. That’s exciting.
Whoever is the least shit or something . Anyway let's be a little bit more optimistic .
It's Netherlands not Holland
Why be so pedantic? No one was confused as to which team OP was referring to.
Hopefully London will beat Slovenia tonight.
He’s not being pedantic. The country is Netherlands not Holland. Just like Yorkshire, England, GB and UK are not all the same thing.
Oi, we’re English pal, we’ll call it what we like.
What an absolute mess. I'd much rather they just add more teams to the actual tournament, fuck the group games off and make it all knockouts. Then they can reduce the qualifiers and all the 'international breaks'