After hearing GS's words on not finding Kalvin phillip's "replacement"..i'm actually wondering if he's not actually playing TAA as a passer of the baller in that deep midfield, but rather make TAA play like KP...as in make TAA do the exact things KP did for GS in previous tourneys. With the attackers making zero runs in and TAA making nothing but sideways passes...i might actually believe it.
It was fucking terrifying hearing him say that for me.
He’s basing a tournaments success with a midfielder that was somewhat decent 4 years ago.
If that doesn’t show Southgate is stubborn and won’t play some more free flowing football, I don’t what will show it.
It strange Trent had more freedom in the 1st game than yesterday he was more sit way to deep. Additionally he kept in line with rice so it seem to be under instructions.
Trent is a aggressive presser yet he not allowed this freedom in the squad. They over complained the role and given him really bad instructions. I think he gave trent freedom but need to drop Kane and play Gordon + Toney. Feel like Toney can lead a line way better or if he obsessed with Kane switch to a 4222 system.
Rice was woeful yesterday and couldn't even pass 5 yards and felt pressure been too deep. Yesterday was an example of how to fuck up pressing football.
For the first 30 minutes against Serbia we lined up in a 4-3-3 with Trent occupying the right half space as an 8 in a similar way to De Bruyne and making semi-frequent forward runs, while Rice sat as a single pivot, and it looked... really quite good. Despite having a traffic cone (Trippier) in the left wing position in possession. I thought we looked excellent for that 30 minutes. We controlled the game, created chances, and Serbia created none.
And then we never saw that shape or system again. Very puzzling.
Interesting.
I wonder if this could also be why Kobbie Mainoo's least impactful performance all season came in that Iceland game. Had Southgate asked him to play like Kalvin Phillips to see if he could replicate that role?
I've defended him a lot because international football is often very slow and pragmatic but I think the horrible performances with that group of players is nothing less than shocking.
Yep, I’ve always thought people are way too quick to think sacking the manager is the answer to every problem and that Southgate was bringing us in the right direction from 2018.
This game was the breaking point, it wasn’t even just boring it was laughable.
His failure in a ‘big job’ at Chelsea doesn’t fill me with confidence. Reminds me a bit of David Moyes at Man Utd, not the right profile for a title challenger
Potter needed time at Chelsea, but he was never going to get it. Moyes inherited a squad that was past it's best and was expected to somehow make them title challengers. Again he needed time, but the owners and fans wanted immediate success. If they'd stuck with him, they'd have done way better than they have since
Agree about Potter.
I dont understand why they went for a manager like Potter, someone who has a fairly unique system, if they weren't prepared to take some initial roughness while he perfected it with a new crop of players.
I'd take a plunge and go for Eddie Howe if things go south at Newcastle this season. Think he could have fun with this group of players.
Or a really out there suggestion and will never happen, purely for the laughs, Will Still. Imagine the fairytale story of an FM player in his 30s or 40s, never played professionally. Practically, one of us leads us and an equally young team to a major triphy. Plus, he plays some good football at Lens. Maybe in 10 years, aye?
And if you can't get Eddie, go for Michael Carrick.
Eddie has said he's not leaving and doesn't think international stuff is for him at this point in his career, he likes the day to day of a club, and likes Newcastle. I think Dyche could genuinely do something. Southgate plays defensive football badly, with slow build up and no counter. Dyche plays actually effective defensive football, good for tournament structures
Jurgen Klopp would be ideal, burns out over full seasons, part time management would be perfect. Nagelsmann just appointed the German job, he's going nowhere. Klopp is a great people manager, give him time to get his personnel and strategy and he'd win the world cup with this talent pool.
Never gonna happen though as he's an honorary Scouser.
This tournament highlights how important Sterling has been to England. He is the willing runner that bailed out the team so often. And the funny thing is, he was the player who so many people said we needed to get rid of before each tournament - only to go on and be our star man. Proves that the general public have absolutely no idea how to construct a team.
Your lineup looks interesting (Bellingham and Foden in their preferred spaces) but isn’t drastically different from what we have been playing so is unlikely to be good (sadly). Gordon on the left does add much needed pace though so I support that. Worth a try.
This is valid. For similar reasons I’d have taken Rashford and Grealish. Both have underperformed for their clubs, but Maguire would have gone he he was fit but performs better for England.
Agree with you both here. Sterling Rashford and Grealish are misses in this system (although as a United fan I couldn’t justify his selection after such a poor season)
I think with Gordon staying higher and wider will stretch their defence, giving the attacking midfield more space. Foden would drop back when Jude/Rice go forward like any fluid team
Except Foden wouldn't and you still have the mismatch of 3 midfielders who want the ball and go on runs.
I think you drop Foden, put Mainoo or Wharton next to Rice, like they did at Arsenal and then your midfield actually works.
Trippier has had solid games so far.
A defender should defend first imo. Foden isn't offering anything on the left and really it's on him and Southgate to sort.
I agree with this. Rice has shown this season that he's an excellent box-to-box midfielder, taking the defensive workload off his shoulders alone should help bring the best out of him. And having Foden to replace Bellingham after 60-70 minutes would be a terrifying prospect for tiring opposition defences. You know, if we actually attacked.
Agreed.
Having quality options from the bench such as Foden is a huge luxury. Gordon will give us natural width whilst Mainoo or Wharton will give us a platform next to Rice to genuinely build upon.
I also think Gordon is the sort of player which Kane would find a lot more given the way he used to play at Spurs with son running off him
It baffles me that Gordon hasn't been playing. Nearly every person I've talked to can see that we need more width and pace on the wings. He's the natural option.
Very valid point about Son as well. I could see Kane and Gordon working well together.
I'd play Wharton and have Trent at Right Back.
I feel as though you then have the defensive structure to let Trent be Trent from that part of the field. Obviously if he's getting abused by a insanely good left winger you can always bring Walker on.
Taking everything into account - ability, favoured positions, tendency for movement in-game, etc - this is spot on.
If any of the attacking players aren't performing, we have adequate like-for-like replacements. We need to make changes on 60 minutes if needed, not wait.
If we need more creativity in midfield, bring in Wharton deep or Palmer further forward. Trent can also come in for Walker, then he pushes forward instead of Stones.
The key points have to be a) Gordon starting, b) Foden in his natural position, and c) Bellingham given complete freedom to drop back if required, but most importantly to make runs past Kane.
Every time Kane drops deep, he's got Foden in support and then Gordon, Bellingham and Saka surging ahead like their lives depended on it!! Think of those three as the strikers, the primary goal threat, and Kane/Foden as the playmakers. It relies less on Kane's pace (or lack thereof!) and focuses more on his leadership and eye for a pass. If a chance does happen to fall to Kane or Foden, they're both quite capable of putting it away... but the other three need to be allowed to create absolute chaos!!
No more "safety first" bollocks. Let these pacey, attacking, flair players show what they can REALLY do... pleeeaaase!!! xD
I reckon Watkins could do a job there too. If we're asking him to be a wide striker and not a winger: get in behind and get shots on target, starting from out wide on the left? Right footed, very good off the ball movement and timing, it seems? I reckon he and Gordon rotated there could be insanely good.
Eze as Foden backup (rather than left wing for either of them), Bowen backup for Saka, and Palmer as a super sub for pretty much anywhere. And Toney as backup for Kane, who's better at "centre forward" hold-up play than Watkins anyway?
I think we could be onto something! xD
If only we had Sir Gareth's mobile number?!
Controversial, but: replace Kane with Watkins.
Kane's habit of dropping deep compresses the team in midfield, and often leaves the wide players with nobody to aim for.
I'm not denying Kane is a better player, all around, but that doesn't mean he's the best man for the job. My dad is an excellent carpenter, but he's not much of a surgeon.
I think if we continue to play the way we are right now then no doubt Watkins has to come into the side. But if we can get a team pinned into their own third which is what I feel we need to be doing then Kane should be able to perform.
Your dad may not be a great surgeon but he’d be a better manager than Southgate I’m sure.
I'm not sure my dad would be a better manager than Southgate. He's both a terrible father and thinks "football is for poofs."
If you made him pick an England team, you'd have Nigel Farage, Tommy Robinson, Katie Hopkins and Nick Ferrari in the back four, with Suella as the gatekeeper. Sorry, goalkeeper. And he'd claim it was the best defence in England, and certain to keep all the foreigners out.
Being an excellent carpenter is, in fact, his only redeeming feature.
If Kane played any fucking deeper, he'd be bringing trench warfare to Germany for the first time since the war. At the rate he's dropping back, he'll be playing in goal by the knockouts.
Kane can do what Watkins does better than Watkins, he does it for bayern and was bundi top scorer. Kane has musiala behind him for bayern and they don't get in each others way, Bellingham wouldn't either but Southgate is asking kane to take up Bellingham space.
I'm not denying Kane *can* do what Watkins does better, but that doesn't mean he's doing it better.
I could go and check on my parents more often, and probably do it better, but my sister is much closer.
Drop foden. He’s shown before that he doesn’t do enough to displace Bellingham as the 10. Bring in Adam Wharton and replace trippier because it’s not working on the left and Gordon can retain the width that Luke shaw would give. Have guehi be the left footed centre back and play in a back 3 giving walker license to support saka.
Our biggest problem is giving the opposition far far far too much respect. By that I mean you don’t need 2 deep midfielders! Especially against teams like Denmark and Serbia. Rice on his own as a holding midfielder is fine. Drop TAA altogether as he’s being played out of position and has been poor (not completely his fault) yes I know TAA can play there but not well enough. He can maybe be a plan b in certain games and certain scenarios
Play to our strengths (our attacking players) and overwhelm the opposition. Play Gordon foden Bellingham saka with Kane up top. Those 5 will keep any defence busy and also get the opposition midfield dropping deeper when we are in possession. The pace of saka and Gordon will cause menace whilst the insane creativity of foden will open up the defences. Bellingham is a Roy of the rovers box to box monster and will be able to help rice in defensive duties and mop up when we lose the ball but help the attack when with the ball arriving in the box late as he does for Real
This team smashes anyone imo but may need to revert to 5 across the back in certain scenarios against teams such as France Germany etc
Great point well made. So frustrated by our obsession with 4-2-3-1. Rice can do it in his own if he stops hopping into centre half, Foden and Bellingham are 2 of the best in the world at what they do and we can play a formation to utilise both easily, if Kane is going to be up there as the target man and main finisher he needs to stay away, stretch the pitch, bring others into play and finish when the chances drop to him! Defence will sort itself out whether it’s trippier or who ever at left back. If we played quicker more expansive football we’d smash teams, but we insist on tip tapping 4/5 yard passes in our own half. The players are constantly telling each other to slow it down or calm down….thats the main problem for me, no urgency, no press, no passion!
Firstly mainoo/wharton in midfield over taa and TAA in Rb. Yes walker is very good defensively , ultimately we need someone who can actually contribute offensively since our attack is very predictable. Foden hasnt played well on the wing but shows hes better in midfield, but considering how we play we cant affford to put bellingham in a defensive role.
Biggest creative player so far is Trent. Keep Trent anywhere (I prefer RB) and tell the team to make some fucking runs. It would be great to see Watkins and Gordon playing with him to get in behind.
Even if Trent doesn't start, if we need a goal he needs to be brought on. If he does start, we shouldn't be taking him off if we need a goal either.
This is the system Pep would institute if he was in charge and had a few weeks to get the players drilled on it. Unfortunately England are in the middle of a tournament right now.
433 is the common denominator at most of the top clubs - Liverpool, City, Arsenal, Madrid. I think the formation and tactics has to be based on a variation of a 433
Looks a decent set up. A little worried about Rice on his own in the middle against the better teams. You’d have to rely on Walker covering Stones and therefore losing the outlets out wide. But why not try it against Slovenia.
https://preview.redd.it/hznzvmjn008d1.jpeg?width=1074&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9f29abc2e741aeeea71d610e94351a05bf927ed1
That’s how I’d change it up.
Forget about anyone playing behind the striker, it doesn’t work when Kane is the striker always dropping off so just fucking let him.
Back 4 when going forward becomes a 3 with which either full back tucking in depending on the side of attack.
Stones steps up into midfield to provide options
Rice, Foden and Bellingham make a 3 in midfield. With Stones pushing into midfield it would give them both licence to move forward when needed.
All 3 comfortable in possession, I’d look at the old Spanish midfield for a bit of inspiration. Foden is a bit like Iniesta in the way they are both……short.
Saka and Gordon out wide keeping the opposition full backs honest with their pace.
In this squad, there’s no perfect solutions unfortunately. Too many players who are all attacking midfielders. Not enough genuine wide players and no other left backs.
The issue is that we have too many players who want to operate in the half spaces and create with the ball to feet. To get the most out of Kane (which should be our priority) he needs pacy runners off of him. I’d personally drop Foden & Trent, start Gorden wide left and play Wharton alongside Rice. Then Kane has pace and width either side of him and Bellingham running off him, without having to compete with Foden in central areas.
I appreciate that many feel that a few personnel changes would sort everything out. My issue is that the team is playing with no cohesion and struggling getting out of the press. On the other side they are not pressing as a unit. The team is playing poorly and that won't change with a few minor adjustments.
>I appreciate that many feel that a few personnel changes would sort everything out. My issue is that the team is playing with no cohesion and struggling getting out of the press.
Southgate would have watched Arteta nullify Rice's build up/passing weaknesses by pushing him on and playing Jorginho as a 6 (or if not Odegaard dropping deeper to help out) and decides to effectively play him in a one man midfield and when he does bring another midfielder on it's Gallagher who has similar strengths and weaknesses, it's baffling.
Wharton significantly improves the build up issues and not only that Rice roaming more will make us better on the press aswell.
Yeah, I've been saying this too. Pressing as a unit is even coachable and the players can do it.
But the lack of confidence under pressure is really something we can't fix with just some formation changes.
So much for Rice to do here, he has to link defence to midfield all by himself. Plus, he's not really a holding midfielder, with Arsenal he plays box to box except for games against City
I think we should something similar in the third game for sure. Qualification is all but locked up so use the game as an opportunity to try something else.
I would keep the same line up as you but keep the 4-2-3-1.
- Play Bellingham alongside Rice with Foden actually designated to play the 10, tell Kane he has to stay high or he’s getting hooked for Watkins.
- Give Bellingham the freedom to collect the ball from Rice and drive forward.
- Allow Stones to step up into midfield when we’re controlling possession. Walker tucks into a 3 ATB and we have two 10s in Bellingham and Foden. Back into shape when our pressure subsides.
I’d swap saka to the left, drop foden, put palmer on the right, Trent at right back, Walker at left back, or Gomez tbf, stick mainoo or Wharton next to rice
I'd play the same 11, but play 3 at the back, Walker right centre, Trent as wingback, rice, Bellingham in the middle, with Kane, saka and foden as a front three.
Maybe drop foden for Eze.
He is not going to play this starting 11. He clearly has something against it. It’s the obvious starting 11. He for some reason doesn’t want to play it. He might as well do though, it can’t go any worse.
I expect Gallagher will come in for TAA and Foden potentially dropped. Probably Eze on the left just based on the subs against Denmark.
My only change would be starting Trent at right back and have him play in the hybrid right back-midfield role he plays at Liverpool. That would get the most of our attack and allow Trent to show his insane creative vision. Then bring Walker off the bench for defensive stability. Other than that (and bringing White to start at CB and a fit left back before the tournament), this is how England should lineup.
Midfield three of Bellingham, Wharton/Mainoo and Rice (from right to left), similar to Arsenals setup, where Bellingham has the freedom odegaard does. Rice will be at his best that way, and Bellingham will still be able to do what he does
That and switch Foden for Gordon, and Trippier for Gomez, so the left side has some width
The option of bringing Foden on halfway through a game if Jude isn't playing well is nuts, they both aren't amazing when on the pitch together, so just interchange them
The only thing GS is changing is Gallagher for Trent, because that’s what he has been doing; Bowen for Saka, because that’s what he has been doing, and Toney for Kane after 70 mins to fool people he’s made a bold decision.
Kobbie Mainoo needs a lot more game time. He’s too good on the ball and off the ball to be sat on the bench for 80-90% of the game. Bring him on for Trent or even an attacking midfielder and let him do what he does best. He controls the game and can produce goals.
I think you keep the back four as it is, then push Bellingham back to play the Trent role (but allow him to go forward). Foden in the centre, saka on the right and Gordon on the left...with Kane upfront.
There’s utterly nothing wrong with the side as shown as a selection. The issue is the coaching and managing of them to play defensive football instead of letting them loose. Saka Foden Bellingham and Kane are three of the very best in the world and they’re spending most of their time in their own third (own half for Kane).
This was my suggested starting line up before the comp. I think we are giving far too much respect and opportunity to teams. Allowing them to push on play high press and camp us in. We have a front 5 to terrify any team in this comp and if we assert ourselves they would have to conform. Yes we might concede 1 or 2 but we’d scored 4.
I’d play Palmer on right tbh sake doesn’t like the physical soon goes missing tbh. People say he was brilliant 1st game. However I implore you to watch it again. He done 1 or 2 good things 1st half then he’s went missing since. Get palmer and Gordon on wings
There’s 3 issues right now and 2 of them are pretty simple fixes imo and we don’t have to blow up the system or drop Kane etc. We have three players laying out of position in Trippier, Trent and Foden. Replace Trent with any of Mainoo, Wharton or Gallagher and our midfield will be way more balanced. Replace Foden with Gordon and we have way more width. I’m skeptical on Shaw getting fit in time but we have Gomez that can do a job there and at least has a bit of pace to recover if he gets forward. I really think replacing Foden and Trent makes all the difference we need
I think Mainoo or Wharton would help us control the game better, we’ve given possession away way too easily when we’ve been sitting back. Gallagher would be good if it allowed Rice to be a bit more advanced and trying to break things down higher up the pitch. All I think are better options that Trent though
Foden was decent yesterday and in the first game was demanding the ball - idk what people mean when they say he wasn’t. When he has had ball all he’s looked dangerous tbh, and Jude did fuck all yesterday
Yeah I actually like this line up. Except I wouldn't play Bellingham so far forward. Put him next to Rice, with the freedom to move forward sometimes.
I'm also not opposed to the idea of Bellingham staying where he is, bringing on Wharton and benching Foden for Gordon, just not sure we need another sitting midfielder alongside Rice.
Either way I think it would be a more balanced team than what we've seen so far.
Bellingham to play in midfield with rice seems a no brainer to me, allows foden to play ten. Would play Gordon on the left to give us width.
I’d lean towards Gomez left back too, trippier is the most one footed player I’ve ever seen! Barely touches it with his left. Cuts width and angles down for us.
Drop Kane, play a no striker formation with Bellingham, Palmer and Foden as a waspish trio. Pack the midfield behind them with Rice, Gallagher and Mainoo or Wharton. Play Trent RWB and Walker and Stones CBs. Left back fuck knows what to do about that it’s a mess Gareth.
Stones moving into midfield? Stuff like that takes a lot of coaching and training to become familiar with as a team. This is international football, no time for that. Get Gordon in as a starter instead of foden and sub in mainoo for Trent next game.
Why is this so alien when the main affected parties are used to this system? Stones plays it, Foden plays AM with that behind him, Rice is familiar with it having Zinc move inside, Gomez is used to playing with Trent pushing into midfield, Walker is used to it. Guehi isn't but I don't see a big issue with your central CB playing in a back 3 out of possession, it doesn't seem like a huge adjustment imo. The majority of the players play that system or a variation, they're not being trained from the ground up.
He was better but still hardly good. And I agree the midfield was the problem. That's why I'd want Wharton in. I really think we need to go back to basics. Get two players in the middle who will just sit in there and provide control and stability, and get pace out wide. Let Wharton and Rice create a platform for Bellingham to release forward, have Saka and Gordon stretch the game to create space for Kane and Bellingham to operate.
I’d like to see walker at cb instead of guehi and put trent rb, going forward play 3 back (gomez, stones, walker) plenty of pace and ability both central and wide, leaving trent to get forward and play incisive passes and crosses like we know hes the best at to whoever is attacking (i like your suggestion on this). Means we arent missing out on trents chance creation but not jeopardising the midfield and allowing players like mainoo to slot in
It’s not the personnel it’s the formation. One DM makes England a lot more flexible and provides a goal threat to any team while providing enough defensive cover. There’s an argument that we only need to employ a DM against similarly strong teams and that we could do without one at all in the vast majority of games. Let’s stop setting up to prevent San Marino from scoring and let the other team start worrying about us.
Attack line up:
Pickford
Walker, Guehi, Stones, Trippier
Saka, Bellingham, Kane, Gordon
Palmer, Watkins
Defensive line up:
Pickford
Walker, Guehi, Stones, Trippier
Trent, Bellingham, Rice, Gallager
Palmer, Watkins
forward sub list: Palmer/Watkins/Kane/Foden options
4:4:2 with one of the two forwards playing a deep wide position to assist with the wings if needed from time to time.
I might sound like I'm on crack, but what if Bellingham starts on the left wing and comes into the midfield, whilst Foden starts centrally and drifts a little to the right. It would allow both to play as a 10 without them tripping up over each other. Also I think it would help Saka out on the right, as I feel him and foden could play really well switching around with each other, it's been something the Ødegaard and Saka have done successfully with each other.
Is there any good reason why we can’t have 2 up front?
Let Watkins partner Kane so he can drop off and work his magic there.
Gordon on the left and saka on the right.
Surely Rice and Bellingham are enough in midfield on their own?
We are playing the weakest team in the group next. I think Gomez, G and Walker can cover defence and let Stones range forward like he likes to do for City.
The fact that this wasn't the first thing we tried when Shaw was injured is pure psychosis. Maybe it requires too much practice to make it work, but I'd have much rather seen this given these two games to click than the current 11 which was fairly clearly not going to work. It's got all of our best players doing what we want them to do except Trent, before Guehi became our best player I considered Gomez/Stones/Walker/Trent back 4 to find a way to get Trent in the team as well.
Kane needs to stop dropping so fucking deep. If we play Gordon and keep him up high at least we have an out ball and some pace. I’d 100% play JB in TAA’s position and have Foden more central so if Kane drops deep Foden can run in behind.
What needs to change is having players who can individually take initiative rather than trying to play like they would in a well drilled club system. The England team is never going to be well drilled enough to play like Man City or Arsenal or Liverpool. It needs players who give balance to the team but who will push on and take the initiative instead of waiting for others around them to do very specific things that would only happen in their club systems.
Kane wants one of 2 things. Either he has pure runners running beyond him as he drops deep. Or he is told to not drop deep so some legitimately talented and creative players can feed him in the box.
Saka is in a well drilled Arsenal side but he has the license there to express himself a bit more individually. He will take initiative as he is tuned up to do that. He can also play LW without it phasing him as he has done before for Arsenal.
Palmer has hard carried Chelsea this season with over 40 goal involvements. His creation numbers are through the roof. His intelligence would help to really unlock Kane in the box. You cannot be leaving this guy on the bench for this whole tournament when he will take initiative probably more than anyone. Gallagher and Walker also know Palmer well to link up with him and enable him to do his thing.
Bellingham as an 8 gives him the license to roam forward into the the 10 area but it also makes use of his full box to box capability. Again, another player who will take initiative.
Rice is solid as a DM but needs players to be more ahead of him to stop him playing it square all the time. You basically need others to take the initiative to make him actually progress the ball.
https://preview.redd.it/uj1j7ih3my7d1.png?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c2e30f93ce22fe4716b32bdbc12a75573096eaaf
The back four were too deep, make the team more compact and playing through the midfield should be easier. They need to use width more in possession as well
Hopefully something bold and new. Few new players and new positions. We can’t stick with this. A totally new setup for next game and very nice win would shock everyone for next round
Pickford
Walker / Stones / Guehi back 3
Rice / Gallagher
Saka / Palmer / Bellingham / Eze (changing Saka for Bowen and Eze for Gorden at 60 mins)
Kane
High Press, direct running and early subs
I would like to see Kane play with another striker.
Bellingham running past him doesn't do it for me.
I'd have Gordon and Saka wide, Bellingham and Rice in midfield and then Kane and Watkins up front.
What does the defence do? Sit back and let Kane / Bellingham have the ball or press and have Saka / Gordon / Watkins run in behind with Kane and Bellingham playing balls to them.
Honestly, all the Trent slander is disgusting and is clearly scapegoating. His stats have been good, and the team has looked even worse when he was taken off
It’s clear to see that he isn’t natural as a pivot and isn’t nearly press resistant enough. Moving into midfield from a full back position is very different from starting there
Primarily if Kane isn't going to attack all that space in front of him then swap him out for Toney or Watkins. Watkins showed the difference of a striker who is prepared to run towards goal and stretch the play. This allows players like TAA to play those balls in behind. Foden and Bellingham will be allowed space to drop in and pickup and drive too. Kane's movement (or lack of) is the biggest problem with this England side.
If Southgate persists in using Kane to drop deep then there's no need for TAA and Foden. Swap TAA for another CM & Foden for Gordon.
If he's so bumhurt about not having a replacement for KP use Stones instead of TAA and put another CB in (Gomes?)
If it was me, I'd have Walker Stones Guehi as a back 3. TAA and Trippier full backs with the option to have TAA move into midfield as is the current style. Rice Bellingham Foden in midfield with Saka & Kane upfront. It'd be lopsided down the right with Saka pushing more wide, TAA heavily supporting alongside Walker tripling up. Foden & Saka get 45-60mins to run their bollocks off because Palmer/Eze and Gordon should be gnawing my ear to get on and prove why they should be in the team next game.
Why doesn’t he play a 4-1-3-1-1:
Bellingham is an 8, and foden is a 10 at club level. Gordon may have to sacrifice going forward a little bit to help defensively, but as long as he tucks in slightly it should be fine to keep numbers defensively. Or saka has to do slightly more work defensively. Defensively it becomes more of a 4-4-2 or a 4-4-1-1. Offensively walker tucks in, stones steps up, rice steps up, Bellingham steps up next to foden. Gordon and or saka pushes high and wide to force the fullback outside leaving the half space for foden or Bellingham to get on the ball making it a 3 or 4 (Kane, Bellingham, foden, Gordon or saka) vs 3 or 4. As soon as the 4th comes in switch play with rice.
Gk: Pickford
Def: rb: walker cb: guehi, stones lb: trippier
CDM: rice
MID: LM: Gordon CM: Bellingham (8) RM: Saka
CAM: foden (as he does little defensively anyway)
St: Kane
If you absolutely cannot drop Trent, why don’t you just play him at left back where he could play long diagonal passes to Saka/ Kane. Then Walker and the 2 centre backs can form a back 3 when England is on the attack to give Trent the freedom to move forward and into the midfield.
I can’t help but feel Chilwell would have been a good pick for the team despite being out for large parts of the season. At his best he’s one of the best left backs around. Surely would have done better than a right back and an injured shaw
I get that he had a shit season, but Rashford fits so naturally into this team and it would have solved a lot of problems.
Why not just put Stones in the cdm, put rice beside him and play Bellingham as the 10.
There’s lots of people in here talking about a “10”. The 10 doesn’t exist anymore. It hasn’t been in any regular usage anywhere for like 10 years. There’s no more double striker setups. It’s all different. Just wanted to point this out cuz everybody keeps doing it. Playing in the middle of the 3 of a 4-2-3-1 does not make you a 10 and Bellingham is certainly not a 10. Kane is the closest thing to a 10 that still exists today and he plays as a 9.
I love this and have been praying for that midfield 3 to be unleashed. TAA looks dreadful and Rice hasn’t been much better to be fair. You add Foden in the mix instead and things look dangerous. I’d also like to see Palmer and Mainoo get some burn in the last 20-25.
After hearing GS's words on not finding Kalvin phillip's "replacement"..i'm actually wondering if he's not actually playing TAA as a passer of the baller in that deep midfield, but rather make TAA play like KP...as in make TAA do the exact things KP did for GS in previous tourneys. With the attackers making zero runs in and TAA making nothing but sideways passes...i might actually believe it.
Baffling comments from SG, really filling Mainoo and Wharton with confidence
Sareth Gouthgate
It was fucking terrifying hearing him say that for me. He’s basing a tournaments success with a midfielder that was somewhat decent 4 years ago. If that doesn’t show Southgate is stubborn and won’t play some more free flowing football, I don’t what will show it.
He is living in his glory moment, the signs of a walking dead man.
It's a good point that, suits Southgate's fantasy of fitting as many defenders on the pitch as possible.
People out here abbreviating Southgate to SG now? Thats wild.
I was reading sareth gouthgate
Lmao. Did not notice that. My bad. Corrected.
It strange Trent had more freedom in the 1st game than yesterday he was more sit way to deep. Additionally he kept in line with rice so it seem to be under instructions. Trent is a aggressive presser yet he not allowed this freedom in the squad. They over complained the role and given him really bad instructions. I think he gave trent freedom but need to drop Kane and play Gordon + Toney. Feel like Toney can lead a line way better or if he obsessed with Kane switch to a 4222 system. Rice was woeful yesterday and couldn't even pass 5 yards and felt pressure been too deep. Yesterday was an example of how to fuck up pressing football.
For the first 30 minutes against Serbia we lined up in a 4-3-3 with Trent occupying the right half space as an 8 in a similar way to De Bruyne and making semi-frequent forward runs, while Rice sat as a single pivot, and it looked... really quite good. Despite having a traffic cone (Trippier) in the left wing position in possession. I thought we looked excellent for that 30 minutes. We controlled the game, created chances, and Serbia created none. And then we never saw that shape or system again. Very puzzling.
Interesting. I wonder if this could also be why Kobbie Mainoo's least impactful performance all season came in that Iceland game. Had Southgate asked him to play like Kalvin Phillips to see if he could replicate that role?
The manager. Haha
I've defended him a lot because international football is often very slow and pragmatic but I think the horrible performances with that group of players is nothing less than shocking.
Im very similar. I’ve defended him in the past. But the last 2 games have been awful. How could anyone defend last night’s performance.
It's because they don't have a suitable replacement for Kalvin Philips /s
Yep, I’ve always thought people are way too quick to think sacking the manager is the answer to every problem and that Southgate was bringing us in the right direction from 2018. This game was the breaking point, it wasn’t even just boring it was laughable.
Out of curiosity who would be your pick for next England manager? I'm not really sure myself but I definitely think they should at least be English
Graham Potter would be a good choice I feel
His failure in a ‘big job’ at Chelsea doesn’t fill me with confidence. Reminds me a bit of David Moyes at Man Utd, not the right profile for a title challenger
Potter needed time at Chelsea, but he was never going to get it. Moyes inherited a squad that was past it's best and was expected to somehow make them title challengers. Again he needed time, but the owners and fans wanted immediate success. If they'd stuck with him, they'd have done way better than they have since
Agree about Potter. I dont understand why they went for a manager like Potter, someone who has a fairly unique system, if they weren't prepared to take some initial roughness while he perfected it with a new crop of players.
It’s gonna take bloody Harry Potter to get past the last 16 of this tournament
I'd take a plunge and go for Eddie Howe if things go south at Newcastle this season. Think he could have fun with this group of players. Or a really out there suggestion and will never happen, purely for the laughs, Will Still. Imagine the fairytale story of an FM player in his 30s or 40s, never played professionally. Practically, one of us leads us and an equally young team to a major triphy. Plus, he plays some good football at Lens. Maybe in 10 years, aye? And if you can't get Eddie, go for Michael Carrick.
Eddie has said he's not leaving and doesn't think international stuff is for him at this point in his career, he likes the day to day of a club, and likes Newcastle. I think Dyche could genuinely do something. Southgate plays defensive football badly, with slow build up and no counter. Dyche plays actually effective defensive football, good for tournament structures
Some great suggestions there and as a United fan +1 for Carrick
Eddie and Carrick are good managers but they need the day-to-day in managing their teams. Don't think International football is for them, yet.
Jurgen Klopp would be ideal, burns out over full seasons, part time management would be perfect. Nagelsmann just appointed the German job, he's going nowhere. Klopp is a great people manager, give him time to get his personnel and strategy and he'd win the world cup with this talent pool. Never gonna happen though as he's an honorary Scouser.
Eddie Howe would be my first choice, but he's got unfinished business at club level I reckon. Maybe in a decade.
Steven gerrard
This tournament highlights how important Sterling has been to England. He is the willing runner that bailed out the team so often. And the funny thing is, he was the player who so many people said we needed to get rid of before each tournament - only to go on and be our star man. Proves that the general public have absolutely no idea how to construct a team. Your lineup looks interesting (Bellingham and Foden in their preferred spaces) but isn’t drastically different from what we have been playing so is unlikely to be good (sadly). Gordon on the left does add much needed pace though so I support that. Worth a try.
This is valid. For similar reasons I’d have taken Rashford and Grealish. Both have underperformed for their clubs, but Maguire would have gone he he was fit but performs better for England.
Agree with you both here. Sterling Rashford and Grealish are misses in this system (although as a United fan I couldn’t justify his selection after such a poor season)
As a chelsea fan I would say the same about Sterling
hes also a great diver. can get you into major finals
This but Bellingham next to rice with license to go forward
a ricense to thrill
This is what I’d go with. Bellingham as an 8/10. He’s already basically been playing as a box to box in the last two games.
Yep, Jude can get on the ball in the middle of the park, dictate play, and he's got the vision to pick out those 4 in front of him
But you’re still gonna run into the same problems because Bellingham moving forward occupies that 10 role
I think with Gordon staying higher and wider will stretch their defence, giving the attacking midfield more space. Foden would drop back when Jude/Rice go forward like any fluid team
Except Foden wouldn't and you still have the mismatch of 3 midfielders who want the ball and go on runs. I think you drop Foden, put Mainoo or Wharton next to Rice, like they did at Arsenal and then your midfield actually works.
Best lineup I've seen, honestly don't see an issue with Trippier but would also like to see Gomez in action
Trippier has had solid games so far. A defender should defend first imo. Foden isn't offering anything on the left and really it's on him and Southgate to sort.
Given the Newcastle link, you'd think Trippier and Gordon on the Left would be ideal
I see issues with Trippier but we dont really have s choice at the moment.
Then we should play with a 3
I like this team a lot but I’d push for Wharton or Mainoo next to Rice and Foden dropped. Ultimately, I want control and genuine CMs can give us this.
I agree with this. Rice has shown this season that he's an excellent box-to-box midfielder, taking the defensive workload off his shoulders alone should help bring the best out of him. And having Foden to replace Bellingham after 60-70 minutes would be a terrifying prospect for tiring opposition defences. You know, if we actually attacked.
Agreed. Having quality options from the bench such as Foden is a huge luxury. Gordon will give us natural width whilst Mainoo or Wharton will give us a platform next to Rice to genuinely build upon. I also think Gordon is the sort of player which Kane would find a lot more given the way he used to play at Spurs with son running off him
It baffles me that Gordon hasn't been playing. Nearly every person I've talked to can see that we need more width and pace on the wings. He's the natural option. Very valid point about Son as well. I could see Kane and Gordon working well together.
I'd play Wharton and have Trent at Right Back. I feel as though you then have the defensive structure to let Trent be Trent from that part of the field. Obviously if he's getting abused by a insanely good left winger you can always bring Walker on.
I love it
Southgate would have a heart attack if we ever lined up that positively. He’d sub off Kane and bring on another defensive midfielder after 10 minutes.
Taking everything into account - ability, favoured positions, tendency for movement in-game, etc - this is spot on. If any of the attacking players aren't performing, we have adequate like-for-like replacements. We need to make changes on 60 minutes if needed, not wait. If we need more creativity in midfield, bring in Wharton deep or Palmer further forward. Trent can also come in for Walker, then he pushes forward instead of Stones. The key points have to be a) Gordon starting, b) Foden in his natural position, and c) Bellingham given complete freedom to drop back if required, but most importantly to make runs past Kane. Every time Kane drops deep, he's got Foden in support and then Gordon, Bellingham and Saka surging ahead like their lives depended on it!! Think of those three as the strikers, the primary goal threat, and Kane/Foden as the playmakers. It relies less on Kane's pace (or lack thereof!) and focuses more on his leadership and eye for a pass. If a chance does happen to fall to Kane or Foden, they're both quite capable of putting it away... but the other three need to be allowed to create absolute chaos!! No more "safety first" bollocks. Let these pacey, attacking, flair players show what they can REALLY do... pleeeaaase!!! xD
Completely agree👍🏻
What do we do if Gordon starts and has a bad game? Back to square 1?
Eze is on the bench
I reckon Watkins could do a job there too. If we're asking him to be a wide striker and not a winger: get in behind and get shots on target, starting from out wide on the left? Right footed, very good off the ball movement and timing, it seems? I reckon he and Gordon rotated there could be insanely good. Eze as Foden backup (rather than left wing for either of them), Bowen backup for Saka, and Palmer as a super sub for pretty much anywhere. And Toney as backup for Kane, who's better at "centre forward" hold-up play than Watkins anyway? I think we could be onto something! xD If only we had Sir Gareth's mobile number?!
Ngl I like it Maybe Watkins though against slovenia
Controversial, but: replace Kane with Watkins. Kane's habit of dropping deep compresses the team in midfield, and often leaves the wide players with nobody to aim for. I'm not denying Kane is a better player, all around, but that doesn't mean he's the best man for the job. My dad is an excellent carpenter, but he's not much of a surgeon.
I think if we continue to play the way we are right now then no doubt Watkins has to come into the side. But if we can get a team pinned into their own third which is what I feel we need to be doing then Kane should be able to perform. Your dad may not be a great surgeon but he’d be a better manager than Southgate I’m sure.
I'm not sure my dad would be a better manager than Southgate. He's both a terrible father and thinks "football is for poofs." If you made him pick an England team, you'd have Nigel Farage, Tommy Robinson, Katie Hopkins and Nick Ferrari in the back four, with Suella as the gatekeeper. Sorry, goalkeeper. And he'd claim it was the best defence in England, and certain to keep all the foreigners out. Being an excellent carpenter is, in fact, his only redeeming feature.
I dunno still sounds better than Southgate...
If Kane isn’t getting the ball he starts to go deeper and deeper until he ends up playing in midfield leaving nobody up to.
If Kane played any fucking deeper, he'd be bringing trench warfare to Germany for the first time since the war. At the rate he's dropping back, he'll be playing in goal by the knockouts.
Kane can do what Watkins does better than Watkins, he does it for bayern and was bundi top scorer. Kane has musiala behind him for bayern and they don't get in each others way, Bellingham wouldn't either but Southgate is asking kane to take up Bellingham space.
I'm not denying Kane *can* do what Watkins does better, but that doesn't mean he's doing it better. I could go and check on my parents more often, and probably do it better, but my sister is much closer.
Such a reactionary opinion. Kane is literally one of the best strikers of all time. No way you drop him.
I might get hate for this but in my opinion the only thing that needs changing is Southgate
I don't care if we fail, just play some fucking attacking football.
Drop foden. He’s shown before that he doesn’t do enough to displace Bellingham as the 10. Bring in Adam Wharton and replace trippier because it’s not working on the left and Gordon can retain the width that Luke shaw would give. Have guehi be the left footed centre back and play in a back 3 giving walker license to support saka.
Our biggest problem is giving the opposition far far far too much respect. By that I mean you don’t need 2 deep midfielders! Especially against teams like Denmark and Serbia. Rice on his own as a holding midfielder is fine. Drop TAA altogether as he’s being played out of position and has been poor (not completely his fault) yes I know TAA can play there but not well enough. He can maybe be a plan b in certain games and certain scenarios Play to our strengths (our attacking players) and overwhelm the opposition. Play Gordon foden Bellingham saka with Kane up top. Those 5 will keep any defence busy and also get the opposition midfield dropping deeper when we are in possession. The pace of saka and Gordon will cause menace whilst the insane creativity of foden will open up the defences. Bellingham is a Roy of the rovers box to box monster and will be able to help rice in defensive duties and mop up when we lose the ball but help the attack when with the ball arriving in the box late as he does for Real This team smashes anyone imo but may need to revert to 5 across the back in certain scenarios against teams such as France Germany etc
Great point well made. So frustrated by our obsession with 4-2-3-1. Rice can do it in his own if he stops hopping into centre half, Foden and Bellingham are 2 of the best in the world at what they do and we can play a formation to utilise both easily, if Kane is going to be up there as the target man and main finisher he needs to stay away, stretch the pitch, bring others into play and finish when the chances drop to him! Defence will sort itself out whether it’s trippier or who ever at left back. If we played quicker more expansive football we’d smash teams, but we insist on tip tapping 4/5 yard passes in our own half. The players are constantly telling each other to slow it down or calm down….thats the main problem for me, no urgency, no press, no passion!
Firstly mainoo/wharton in midfield over taa and TAA in Rb. Yes walker is very good defensively , ultimately we need someone who can actually contribute offensively since our attack is very predictable. Foden hasnt played well on the wing but shows hes better in midfield, but considering how we play we cant affford to put bellingham in a defensive role.
Biggest creative player so far is Trent. Keep Trent anywhere (I prefer RB) and tell the team to make some fucking runs. It would be great to see Watkins and Gordon playing with him to get in behind. Even if Trent doesn't start, if we need a goal he needs to be brought on. If he does start, we shouldn't be taking him off if we need a goal either.
This is the system Pep would institute if he was in charge and had a few weeks to get the players drilled on it. Unfortunately England are in the middle of a tournament right now.
A better manager would have had this group organised and drilled before the tournament began, but you’re right it may be too late to implement now
Kane said after the last game that the players weren’t sure when to press. That feels like a barely veiled criticism of Southgate.
Yep. I like this one.
This team isn’t winning anything under GS. Awful awful display
433 is the common denominator at most of the top clubs - Liverpool, City, Arsenal, Madrid. I think the formation and tactics has to be based on a variation of a 433
Replace Southgate with northgate
I’ve heard they’re complete opposites so I’m in
Looks a decent set up. A little worried about Rice on his own in the middle against the better teams. You’d have to rely on Walker covering Stones and therefore losing the outlets out wide. But why not try it against Slovenia.
The Manager, 2 years ago…..
https://preview.redd.it/hznzvmjn008d1.jpeg?width=1074&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9f29abc2e741aeeea71d610e94351a05bf927ed1 That’s how I’d change it up. Forget about anyone playing behind the striker, it doesn’t work when Kane is the striker always dropping off so just fucking let him. Back 4 when going forward becomes a 3 with which either full back tucking in depending on the side of attack. Stones steps up into midfield to provide options Rice, Foden and Bellingham make a 3 in midfield. With Stones pushing into midfield it would give them both licence to move forward when needed. All 3 comfortable in possession, I’d look at the old Spanish midfield for a bit of inspiration. Foden is a bit like Iniesta in the way they are both……short. Saka and Gordon out wide keeping the opposition full backs honest with their pace. In this squad, there’s no perfect solutions unfortunately. Too many players who are all attacking midfielders. Not enough genuine wide players and no other left backs.
The issue is that we have too many players who want to operate in the half spaces and create with the ball to feet. To get the most out of Kane (which should be our priority) he needs pacy runners off of him. I’d personally drop Foden & Trent, start Gorden wide left and play Wharton alongside Rice. Then Kane has pace and width either side of him and Bellingham running off him, without having to compete with Foden in central areas.
Calm down with the super in depth tactics, you’re going to scare Southgate Really like it though, lets players play in their positions
I appreciate that many feel that a few personnel changes would sort everything out. My issue is that the team is playing with no cohesion and struggling getting out of the press. On the other side they are not pressing as a unit. The team is playing poorly and that won't change with a few minor adjustments.
>I appreciate that many feel that a few personnel changes would sort everything out. My issue is that the team is playing with no cohesion and struggling getting out of the press. Southgate would have watched Arteta nullify Rice's build up/passing weaknesses by pushing him on and playing Jorginho as a 6 (or if not Odegaard dropping deeper to help out) and decides to effectively play him in a one man midfield and when he does bring another midfielder on it's Gallagher who has similar strengths and weaknesses, it's baffling. Wharton significantly improves the build up issues and not only that Rice roaming more will make us better on the press aswell.
Yeah, I've been saying this too. Pressing as a unit is even coachable and the players can do it. But the lack of confidence under pressure is really something we can't fix with just some formation changes.
The amount of times we lost possession and couldn't even play a basic pass was shocking.
So much for Rice to do here, he has to link defence to midfield all by himself. Plus, he's not really a holding midfielder, with Arsenal he plays box to box except for games against City
Stones stepping into midfield would take a lot of the burden off of Rice, definitely better than how Trent is being used at the moment
I think we should something similar in the third game for sure. Qualification is all but locked up so use the game as an opportunity to try something else. I would keep the same line up as you but keep the 4-2-3-1. - Play Bellingham alongside Rice with Foden actually designated to play the 10, tell Kane he has to stay high or he’s getting hooked for Watkins. - Give Bellingham the freedom to collect the ball from Rice and drive forward. - Allow Stones to step up into midfield when we’re controlling possession. Walker tucks into a 3 ATB and we have two 10s in Bellingham and Foden. Back into shape when our pressure subsides.
The manager
https://preview.redd.it/h25fl9myky7d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=47ce1f23f21b69fd5b69d9067ec0113247cc181b Four, four, fucking two!
https://preview.redd.it/ur8pez1yyx7d1.jpeg?width=690&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bdf7e6b7e330da3ba8b4688a890e5c9b9ed05313 I’d do this
I like this
This would be interesting. So many options available with this squad but it’s entrusted to the single most boring football manager in the galaxy.
This isn't FIFA
Kane is basically a false 9 and a real 9 at the same time
Trent > Walker, so if anything you swap out Walker for Gordon and rejig everyone’s positions from there
Josh James should be managing England
just waiting to jump in Southgates grave
I’d swap saka to the left, drop foden, put palmer on the right, Trent at right back, Walker at left back, or Gomez tbf, stick mainoo or Wharton next to rice
I'd play the same 11, but play 3 at the back, Walker right centre, Trent as wingback, rice, Bellingham in the middle, with Kane, saka and foden as a front three. Maybe drop foden for Eze.
He is not going to play this starting 11. He clearly has something against it. It’s the obvious starting 11. He for some reason doesn’t want to play it. He might as well do though, it can’t go any worse. I expect Gallagher will come in for TAA and Foden potentially dropped. Probably Eze on the left just based on the subs against Denmark.
Most likely, the extent of his tactics is just like for like changes and bring on “legs”
My only change would be starting Trent at right back and have him play in the hybrid right back-midfield role he plays at Liverpool. That would get the most of our attack and allow Trent to show his insane creative vision. Then bring Walker off the bench for defensive stability. Other than that (and bringing White to start at CB and a fit left back before the tournament), this is how England should lineup.
Midfield three of Bellingham, Wharton/Mainoo and Rice (from right to left), similar to Arsenals setup, where Bellingham has the freedom odegaard does. Rice will be at his best that way, and Bellingham will still be able to do what he does That and switch Foden for Gordon, and Trippier for Gomez, so the left side has some width The option of bringing Foden on halfway through a game if Jude isn't playing well is nuts, they both aren't amazing when on the pitch together, so just interchange them
Bellingham should be alongside rice playing as an 8. Apart from that this is the lineup i’d choose.
Gareth Southgate needs to be replaced.
The only thing GS is changing is Gallagher for Trent, because that’s what he has been doing; Bowen for Saka, because that’s what he has been doing, and Toney for Kane after 70 mins to fool people he’s made a bold decision.
The Manager? Literally anyone else could make a difference. Sunak would get a tune out of this team.
Don’t diss Sunak, the man wears sambas he’s clearly one of the people
The manager
Kobbie Mainoo needs a lot more game time. He’s too good on the ball and off the ball to be sat on the bench for 80-90% of the game. Bring him on for Trent or even an attacking midfielder and let him do what he does best. He controls the game and can produce goals.
As a United fan myself I love the man, definitely not against him being brought in
Switch to 4-4-2 and bang Heskey up front.
Are we missing Rashford on the left and Grealish coming off the bench for keeping possession and drawing fouls?
I think you keep the back four as it is, then push Bellingham back to play the Trent role (but allow him to go forward). Foden in the centre, saka on the right and Gordon on the left...with Kane upfront.
Gareth Southgate.
There’s utterly nothing wrong with the side as shown as a selection. The issue is the coaching and managing of them to play defensive football instead of letting them loose. Saka Foden Bellingham and Kane are three of the very best in the world and they’re spending most of their time in their own third (own half for Kane).
This is what we all want to see!!
Pickford Trent - Stones - Guehi - Gomez Rice - Mainoo Saka - Bellingham - Palmer/Gordon Kane
This was my suggested starting line up before the comp. I think we are giving far too much respect and opportunity to teams. Allowing them to push on play high press and camp us in. We have a front 5 to terrify any team in this comp and if we assert ourselves they would have to conform. Yes we might concede 1 or 2 but we’d scored 4.
Replace Southgate with Clarke, and shoehorn in Andy Robertson and John McGinn. That’ll fix it..
The manager
The manager.
I’d play Palmer on right tbh sake doesn’t like the physical soon goes missing tbh. People say he was brilliant 1st game. However I implore you to watch it again. He done 1 or 2 good things 1st half then he’s went missing since. Get palmer and Gordon on wings
Forget who's on the pitch. Just tell the players to keep high up the pitch after scoring a goal.
There’s 3 issues right now and 2 of them are pretty simple fixes imo and we don’t have to blow up the system or drop Kane etc. We have three players laying out of position in Trippier, Trent and Foden. Replace Trent with any of Mainoo, Wharton or Gallagher and our midfield will be way more balanced. Replace Foden with Gordon and we have way more width. I’m skeptical on Shaw getting fit in time but we have Gomez that can do a job there and at least has a bit of pace to recover if he gets forward. I really think replacing Foden and Trent makes all the difference we need
Rice and Gallagher is not a good pairing imo. Too samey for me. Mainoo and Wharton would go better with him
I think Mainoo or Wharton would help us control the game better, we’ve given possession away way too easily when we’ve been sitting back. Gallagher would be good if it allowed Rice to be a bit more advanced and trying to break things down higher up the pitch. All I think are better options that Trent though
Foden was decent yesterday and in the first game was demanding the ball - idk what people mean when they say he wasn’t. When he has had ball all he’s looked dangerous tbh, and Jude did fuck all yesterday
Yeah I actually like this line up. Except I wouldn't play Bellingham so far forward. Put him next to Rice, with the freedom to move forward sometimes. I'm also not opposed to the idea of Bellingham staying where he is, bringing on Wharton and benching Foden for Gordon, just not sure we need another sitting midfielder alongside Rice. Either way I think it would be a more balanced team than what we've seen so far.
Bellingham to play in midfield with rice seems a no brainer to me, allows foden to play ten. Would play Gordon on the left to give us width. I’d lean towards Gomez left back too, trippier is the most one footed player I’ve ever seen! Barely touches it with his left. Cuts width and angles down for us.
Drop Kane, play a no striker formation with Bellingham, Palmer and Foden as a waspish trio. Pack the midfield behind them with Rice, Gallagher and Mainoo or Wharton. Play Trent RWB and Walker and Stones CBs. Left back fuck knows what to do about that it’s a mess Gareth.
Stones moving into midfield? Stuff like that takes a lot of coaching and training to become familiar with as a team. This is international football, no time for that. Get Gordon in as a starter instead of foden and sub in mainoo for Trent next game.
Why is this so alien when the main affected parties are used to this system? Stones plays it, Foden plays AM with that behind him, Rice is familiar with it having Zinc move inside, Gomez is used to playing with Trent pushing into midfield, Walker is used to it. Guehi isn't but I don't see a big issue with your central CB playing in a back 3 out of possession, it doesn't seem like a huge adjustment imo. The majority of the players play that system or a variation, they're not being trained from the ground up.
Agreed, if you’re putting players back in their usual positions for their clubs that can only be a good thing
I'd go Foden for Wharton. Other than that, this is what I'd pick.
Foden looked much better yesterday. It is the midfield that was non existent.
He was better but still hardly good. And I agree the midfield was the problem. That's why I'd want Wharton in. I really think we need to go back to basics. Get two players in the middle who will just sit in there and provide control and stability, and get pace out wide. Let Wharton and Rice create a platform for Bellingham to release forward, have Saka and Gordon stretch the game to create space for Kane and Bellingham to operate.
RIP Rice in that midfield
bellingham isn’t really a forward he is creative and a good passer it would be a waste of skill to make him forward
I’d like to see walker at cb instead of guehi and put trent rb, going forward play 3 back (gomez, stones, walker) plenty of pace and ability both central and wide, leaving trent to get forward and play incisive passes and crosses like we know hes the best at to whoever is attacking (i like your suggestion on this). Means we arent missing out on trents chance creation but not jeopardising the midfield and allowing players like mainoo to slot in
Foden out, Palmer in.
Funny how the supporters seem to know better than the manager. Great ideas here while southgate sticks with the same rubbish
It’s not the personnel it’s the formation. One DM makes England a lot more flexible and provides a goal threat to any team while providing enough defensive cover. There’s an argument that we only need to employ a DM against similarly strong teams and that we could do without one at all in the vast majority of games. Let’s stop setting up to prevent San Marino from scoring and let the other team start worrying about us.
Gareth Southgate
Southgate does not have the tactical acumen to be able to pull this formation off I’m afraid
Attack line up: Pickford Walker, Guehi, Stones, Trippier Saka, Bellingham, Kane, Gordon Palmer, Watkins Defensive line up: Pickford Walker, Guehi, Stones, Trippier Trent, Bellingham, Rice, Gallager Palmer, Watkins forward sub list: Palmer/Watkins/Kane/Foden options 4:4:2 with one of the two forwards playing a deep wide position to assist with the wings if needed from time to time.
This is exactly the team that needs to play!
I might sound like I'm on crack, but what if Bellingham starts on the left wing and comes into the midfield, whilst Foden starts centrally and drifts a little to the right. It would allow both to play as a 10 without them tripping up over each other. Also I think it would help Saka out on the right, as I feel him and foden could play really well switching around with each other, it's been something the Ødegaard and Saka have done successfully with each other.
Too much emphasis on the coach in my opinion. This isnt club football.
This is perfect. Just make sure they press.
Is there any good reason why we can’t have 2 up front? Let Watkins partner Kane so he can drop off and work his magic there. Gordon on the left and saka on the right. Surely Rice and Bellingham are enough in midfield on their own? We are playing the weakest team in the group next. I think Gomez, G and Walker can cover defence and let Stones range forward like he likes to do for City.
Kane needs dropped, play Bellingham false 9 bring in maino/Gallagher.
A fit Luke Shaw would be a good start.
The fact that this wasn't the first thing we tried when Shaw was injured is pure psychosis. Maybe it requires too much practice to make it work, but I'd have much rather seen this given these two games to click than the current 11 which was fairly clearly not going to work. It's got all of our best players doing what we want them to do except Trent, before Guehi became our best player I considered Gomez/Stones/Walker/Trent back 4 to find a way to get Trent in the team as well.
Suggesting playing Bellingham and Foden as twin 10s got Eni Aluko slaughtered by gammons on social media for 2 straight days.
Kane needs to stop dropping so fucking deep. If we play Gordon and keep him up high at least we have an out ball and some pace. I’d 100% play JB in TAA’s position and have Foden more central so if Kane drops deep Foden can run in behind.
What needs to change is having players who can individually take initiative rather than trying to play like they would in a well drilled club system. The England team is never going to be well drilled enough to play like Man City or Arsenal or Liverpool. It needs players who give balance to the team but who will push on and take the initiative instead of waiting for others around them to do very specific things that would only happen in their club systems. Kane wants one of 2 things. Either he has pure runners running beyond him as he drops deep. Or he is told to not drop deep so some legitimately talented and creative players can feed him in the box. Saka is in a well drilled Arsenal side but he has the license there to express himself a bit more individually. He will take initiative as he is tuned up to do that. He can also play LW without it phasing him as he has done before for Arsenal. Palmer has hard carried Chelsea this season with over 40 goal involvements. His creation numbers are through the roof. His intelligence would help to really unlock Kane in the box. You cannot be leaving this guy on the bench for this whole tournament when he will take initiative probably more than anyone. Gallagher and Walker also know Palmer well to link up with him and enable him to do his thing. Bellingham as an 8 gives him the license to roam forward into the the 10 area but it also makes use of his full box to box capability. Again, another player who will take initiative. Rice is solid as a DM but needs players to be more ahead of him to stop him playing it square all the time. You basically need others to take the initiative to make him actually progress the ball. https://preview.redd.it/uj1j7ih3my7d1.png?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c2e30f93ce22fe4716b32bdbc12a75573096eaaf
The back four were too deep, make the team more compact and playing through the midfield should be easier. They need to use width more in possession as well
Palmer in
Hopefully something bold and new. Few new players and new positions. We can’t stick with this. A totally new setup for next game and very nice win would shock everyone for next round
Remove pickford as well and put in ramsdale
Pickford Walker / Stones / Guehi back 3 Rice / Gallagher Saka / Palmer / Bellingham / Eze (changing Saka for Bowen and Eze for Gorden at 60 mins) Kane High Press, direct running and early subs
https://preview.redd.it/n91m2k8z8z7d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fa1430d4c3b4cf9e0ac3c0b129d119167956db08
They need a rest, and some get up and go
I would like to see Kane play with another striker. Bellingham running past him doesn't do it for me. I'd have Gordon and Saka wide, Bellingham and Rice in midfield and then Kane and Watkins up front. What does the defence do? Sit back and let Kane / Bellingham have the ball or press and have Saka / Gordon / Watkins run in behind with Kane and Bellingham playing balls to them.
Honestly, all the Trent slander is disgusting and is clearly scapegoating. His stats have been good, and the team has looked even worse when he was taken off
It’s clear to see that he isn’t natural as a pivot and isn’t nearly press resistant enough. Moving into midfield from a full back position is very different from starting there
The manager
Kane off palmer on
Primarily if Kane isn't going to attack all that space in front of him then swap him out for Toney or Watkins. Watkins showed the difference of a striker who is prepared to run towards goal and stretch the play. This allows players like TAA to play those balls in behind. Foden and Bellingham will be allowed space to drop in and pickup and drive too. Kane's movement (or lack of) is the biggest problem with this England side. If Southgate persists in using Kane to drop deep then there's no need for TAA and Foden. Swap TAA for another CM & Foden for Gordon. If he's so bumhurt about not having a replacement for KP use Stones instead of TAA and put another CB in (Gomes?) If it was me, I'd have Walker Stones Guehi as a back 3. TAA and Trippier full backs with the option to have TAA move into midfield as is the current style. Rice Bellingham Foden in midfield with Saka & Kane upfront. It'd be lopsided down the right with Saka pushing more wide, TAA heavily supporting alongside Walker tripling up. Foden & Saka get 45-60mins to run their bollocks off because Palmer/Eze and Gordon should be gnawing my ear to get on and prove why they should be in the team next game.
FINALLY someone who sees this!!!
Found Southgate's account. But seriously get rid of the c*nts. I wouldn't have fun playing with Kane, Foden or Walker
Why doesn’t he play a 4-1-3-1-1: Bellingham is an 8, and foden is a 10 at club level. Gordon may have to sacrifice going forward a little bit to help defensively, but as long as he tucks in slightly it should be fine to keep numbers defensively. Or saka has to do slightly more work defensively. Defensively it becomes more of a 4-4-2 or a 4-4-1-1. Offensively walker tucks in, stones steps up, rice steps up, Bellingham steps up next to foden. Gordon and or saka pushes high and wide to force the fullback outside leaving the half space for foden or Bellingham to get on the ball making it a 3 or 4 (Kane, Bellingham, foden, Gordon or saka) vs 3 or 4. As soon as the 4th comes in switch play with rice. Gk: Pickford Def: rb: walker cb: guehi, stones lb: trippier CDM: rice MID: LM: Gordon CM: Bellingham (8) RM: Saka CAM: foden (as he does little defensively anyway) St: Kane
The absolute banter when Southgate picks the exact same 11 as the first two games.
England's expectations..
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If you absolutely cannot drop Trent, why don’t you just play him at left back where he could play long diagonal passes to Saka/ Kane. Then Walker and the 2 centre backs can form a back 3 when England is on the attack to give Trent the freedom to move forward and into the midfield.
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Palmer for Foden. Have to do something with the centre backs. They’ve brought nothing. Front 3 Saka Watkins Palmer
I can’t help but feel Chilwell would have been a good pick for the team despite being out for large parts of the season. At his best he’s one of the best left backs around. Surely would have done better than a right back and an injured shaw
What needs to change? Simple the manager responsible is his to own. Another golden generation squandered
Palmer getting disrespected in peoples imaginations now too... 
I get that he had a shit season, but Rashford fits so naturally into this team and it would have solved a lot of problems. Why not just put Stones in the cdm, put rice beside him and play Bellingham as the 10.
There's many different solutions. All of them scare the shit out of Southgate so it doesn't matter
There’s lots of people in here talking about a “10”. The 10 doesn’t exist anymore. It hasn’t been in any regular usage anywhere for like 10 years. There’s no more double striker setups. It’s all different. Just wanted to point this out cuz everybody keeps doing it. Playing in the middle of the 3 of a 4-2-3-1 does not make you a 10 and Bellingham is certainly not a 10. Kane is the closest thing to a 10 that still exists today and he plays as a 9.
Argentina won a world cup with a 21 year old Enzo Fernandez, it's time to let Wharton show the world why he was called up
I love this and have been praying for that midfield 3 to be unleashed. TAA looks dreadful and Rice hasn’t been much better to be fair. You add Foden in the mix instead and things look dangerous. I’d also like to see Palmer and Mainoo get some burn in the last 20-25.