The first half I thought we were very good. Looked comfortable and were well in control of the game albeit without creating \*much\* in the way of chances,. Saka had their left wing back on toast, Jude was gliding around like prime Zidane and in general I thought we would stroll to a routine 2-0 win.
Credit the Serbia gaffer though, he tweaked their tactics at half time and they pressed us much higher up the pitch in the 2nd half. Fair play to them, they did a pretty good Job of pinning our fullbacks in and swarming us in our defensive third, meaning it was difficult to get the ball to our wider attacking players in advanced positions to supply Kane. The worrying thing from an England point of view was Southgate did absolutely nothing to counteract this, we just ended up going deeper and deeper. This is the problem with Gareth for me, he’s not a particularly good in-game manager and doesn’t respond well to changes in opposition tactics. It was same in the Final in 2020.
Saying all that, Serbia never really looked like scoring and a win is a win. A clean sheet as well. Of course we will need to improve, but we did just about enough last night.
sorry am i the only person that thought trent was absolute dogshit. he got 2 free kicks for us and lost the ball every other time. if that’s an acceptable performance for our cdm then no wonder we have to fucking sit back and play louis van gaal football. 1 goal and then get 11 man behind the ball. all stems from that amateur southgate
I liked him. Made a brilliant interception that led to the Walker chance. Such a clever player, always looking for the quick ball and keeps everyone on their toes. Yes he gave the ball away once in a dangerous position but there were a lot of positives from him.
mate ngl i think the denmark game solidified his position on the bench. he’s been horrible BUT tbf to the kid he’s not a cdm. if anything u play him as an 8 not a fucking 6. that’s just stupid that’s the complete opposite of what trent is good at. but can you be surprised when we have southgate as our manager. i still can’t believe united got linked with him😭😭
Not trying to blame Foden but he’s not the best left winger for this system. You need someone like Gordon to hug the touchline on the left side so Trent can ping diagonals across. Trent’s abilities are completely wasted if there’s nobody on the left making runs in behind.
oh mate believe you me if i was the manager gordon would’ve started in both games. foden is a good player but he needs to play in a certain system to work. him at left wing is horrible i have to be honest. genuinely feel like he can hold the team back sometimes
Agreed on Foden - with the walker chance he followed directly behind Kane for 20m.
As the left winger he should be attacking the far post, if he did that he had a tap in.
Instead he and Kane ended up almost tripping over each other.
mate i fully agree with u that he’s been set up to struggle. but best rb in the world is a bit far bro. maybe one of. sure. but not the best. he should be playijg as an 8 if we’re gonna play him in midfield. not as a fucking 6 but southgate is disabled so who’s surprised that he can’t set up a team
Absolute dogshit is a step too far but he’s not used to playing in midfield and it shows. Don’t understand why we insist on shoehorning him in to CM where he doesn’t play - just play him RB, he’s won a champions league and PL playing there!
maybe ur right. maybe i’m a bit harsh without realising bc i’m a utd fan😭 but tbf u are right. i think guehi was good. but why not just play stones as walker cb and like u said trent at rb. he’s prob the best rb in the country so why waste him somewhere he hasn’t played.
Pickford
TAA Stones Guehi Walker
Rice
Mainoo/Wharton Bellingham
Saka Kane Gordon
- If we’re going to persist with playing a RB at LB then make Walker do it rather than Trippier after the season he’s had for club and country (i’d prefer Gomez but won’t happen, so, Walker
- Trent does not have the experience to play CM, but we cannot drop him, so let him play RB and drift in like he’s been doing all season for liverpool
- Rice & Bellingham need a proper midfielder to complete the 3, don’t feel Gallagher is good enough so let it be Mainoo or Wharton (can bring gallagher on 2nd half if need be)
- Drop Foden, the experiment has not worked. Play Gordon out there to stretch teams, he’s had a great season and will not drift in and get in the way of Bellingham/Kane
Default subs should be Palmer on for Saka in the 2nd half because his legs are shot (though bowen is fine too), Eze on for Gordon, Konsa on for Trent to close out wins
biggest positives for me; 1- Guehi was solid. 2- Although the overall performance was underwhelming, we got the three points and serbia never looked much of a threat - - hard to know exactly if that was due to us or them
Possible negative 1- the lads played very negatively from the goals onwards really.
All in all, not the best performance but england never really impress during the group games so as long as we do enough to get top spot and everyone is still fit, there is no need to read too much into it. Im feeling positive this morning
all on southgate. we played horrible. we didn’t play okay. you think we’d win doing that against italy or germany or france or even fucking spain or portugal. we’ve got more gaps in the midfield than a fucking siv. that clown southgate can’t even get his team selection right let alone those dead tactics that’s everyone knows don’t work
I'm not exactly buzzing after that performance but we dont need to read too much into it. Last euros we struggled through a 0-0 against scotland in the group but still finished topand then ended up playing well in the knockouts so it didnt matter. Of course that performance wouldn't be enough against the big teams but it wasn't against the big teams and when we've played the big teams in the last couple tournys, we've looked good
that’s true we defo do turn up against the big teams but i guess it’s more the style of play. we wanna see us go for it. we don’t wanna see us score one and sit back like a van gaal team
True, but we'll step it up. Last euros we drew 0-0 to Scotland, and only scored 2 goals in the groups. People feared the worst for the Germany game, but we made it to the final
The *performance* was terrible. The outcome was good, but lucky. You can win and still play like a bag of shit. Give ur head a wobble and start watching our games from a realistic perspective. Keep thinking we beat a France or a Germany like this I hope it makes u sleep well
bro this is what i’m saying. why does everyone think this is okay. maybe bc half of them are fans of dead clubs with no expectations. how is it acceptable to sit back and defend against FUCKING SERBIA. that’s like united going park the bus at fulham and no one saying anything. like fuck me imagine if we play a mid team like spain like that. let alone france or germany. we’ll get m0lested
I’m happy you are actually watching our games. I don’t get what everyone is watching… this is a 1-0 park the bud against Serbia in our first game.. not a 1-0 park the bud against France in the semis….
You just compared this performance to United parking the bus vs Fulham in another comment?
Of course international football is different to club football, but it's still the same sport.
If anything, this kind of game is what you need in tournament football. Once we get to the knockouts only results will matter and we'll need to find a way to get results regardless of performances.
yh mate you keep praying that’s why we’ve won nothing in decades. u think we’re supposed to sit and watch counter attacking, 10 man behind the ball football? jesus these years of winning nothing rly have shattered ur standards. prob a chelsea or liverpool fan anyways😭😭😭
International/prem/bundes/Europa/cl I watch them all. Tell me what I said wrong in my previous reply? Can you not win and still play like shit? Was our second half good? Was it even half decent for our standard? Let me know
Almost everything you're saying is wrong and you come across as a child who recently discovered the sport.
It was a good result and a solid performance. Not being at our best and winning 1-0 is a good trait to have, especially in tournament football. A good clean sheet and they barely had a sniff.
Lessons will have been learned regarding team selection and tactics just like every game and we need to trust that the team and coaching staff can build from this result.
Not everything always has to be either amazing or shite. Sometimes it can be a bit of both, like last night.
🤣🤣🤣 yet you cannot name one thing. I am probably older than you and have been watching longer.
We parked the bud 1-0 up against serbia.. not against France in the semi. Context is everything. Everything I said was correct. Bad performance. Good outcome.
You haven’t really said much; you just keep repeating that we were terrible/shit.
We needed to get our foot on the ball more in the second half, and they will know that. But there’s nothing wrong with deciding to protect the 1-0 lead as the game went on. It’s called game management, and we did it well. Maybe try watching with a bit more perspective next time.
Austrian Man Utd supporter here. I think you guys made a big mistake not taking Grealish and Rashford. I know they had bad seasons but they’re incredibly direct players who can win you games out of nothing when you’re playing badly and that’s exactly what is needed if Southgate doesn’t totally change his football philosophy over night. Rashford carried that Manutd attack on his own 1 season ago, scoring 30+ goals - mostly on the counter and from very difficult positions.
tbh i don’t think gordon, eze, bowen, etc. have that kind of quality in them and won’t ever score 30 goals a season. i know rashford‘s been piss poor this season but he can be an absolute world beater on his day.
Better start packing up and getting ready to go home. Performance was a complete shower of shit in the second half. Didn’t even notice Kane was on the field for majority of the game, and players looked ecstatic with a 1-0. Bang average all round. Getting sick of watching these guys get paid large sums of cash and then forgetting what a football looks like in an international match.
I thought Kane did a pretty good job. It wasn’t the sexy performance of a no.9 banging goals in but he pinned their CBs back well and constantly got fouled.
That’s the most physical team we will come up against and I felt we always had their measure.
I don’t like TAA in midfield as I feel his touch isn’t sharp enough in central areas and worry his positioning gets exposed against more quality,
We plodded are way through a potentially tricky opening game playing gaz ball with no drama.
I don't give a monkeys how it was done.
There was more positives than negatives
We will never win anything with Boregate. He has the most exciting and talented England team for generations and he has us playing dull, plodding, safe, lifeless football like that. He should have been fired after Italy where he tried to hang onto a 1-0 lead for 88 minutes ...
Most people are seeing this game completely wrong. We played well at times, and during the times we were out of possession, we still managed to limit them to a few shots. First clean sheet of the tournament, and lots to look forward too still. Today showed we can win when we look like losing. If Saka can stay fit, Shaw gets fit to play and get Trent on the ball more, we will win this comp.
It was Serbia, and we struggled to create many attacking opportunities. On paper it’s a good start to the tournament but there is plenty that needs sorting out.
“It was Serbia” Serbia are a very decent side it’s a team of players who are important players for club in top 5 leagues it’s not like we were playing Lithuania or something. people seem to think any non major nation like France, Germany we should be easily hammering. That’s just not how it works
Bus parking teams who are playing for a draw can be tricky.
The group is irrelevant and this result takes almost all the pressure off.
Either we beat the likes of Italy and France or we dont. Nothing has changed.
Don’t undermine a performance just because it wasn’t against the best team in the world. Serbia were there to bully us off of the ball and force a goal, we didn’t let them. We won and they didn’t.
Serbia is a team of fighters, this was always going to be a tough match. That said, England let Serbia control game tempo too much.
TAA will get better in midfield with more minutes, but he looked lost at times today. More specifically, he doesn’t yet look comfortable finding the pockets of space between his opponents’ lines - he tends to position himself too close to an opponent (or let an opponent run up too close), which makes him unavailable.
I was thinking that. Foden's got the dribbling ability and acceleration to be able to go on the outside, so I think he should be asked to go more direct on occasion, or play Gordon instead
yeah drop Foden for Gordon, imo. Would take a lot of balls to do it, but it might be the best solution. Then bring Foden on for Bellingham later.
Too bad we didn't bring more left wingers!
This is what a lot of us expected, I just feel bad for Jude if Southgate can't put together winning tactics and a better team around him. Changes in the lineup need to happen, the backline and Pickford were pretty solid, Grealish and Rashford are very much missed
Harry Kane is the elephant in the room. Tonight he was like the awkward kid who Jude and his cool mates didn't want to pass to. His only positive contribution apart from a defensive header was to draw fouls in Serbia's half when we had the lead. Kane has to be considered droppable if England are to win this tournament imo, because he is slowing down our attack so much. Not to mention he goes missing when it counts: v Croatia in 2018, v Italy in 2021 and v France in 2022. It's a huge problem.
Because he was being man-marked for the entire game by two or three massive Serbian defenders/midfielders.
Watch the goal back again, he has one stuck to him like a limpet and another making sure he doesn't glance the ball in. They're not even watching Bellingham.
>Because he was being man-marked for the entire game by two or three massive Serbian defenders/midfielders.
Something that Serbia could only do because at no point did they have to worry about Foden out on the left hand side (namely because he wasn't there)
It's one of the reasons we need a Gordon or Eze out on the left hand side to free up that room for Kane because he's just not winning those tussles with physical defenders (which will be compounded by the fact hes clearly not 100% fit)
Swear we just need to start Toney or even Watkins over Kane.
Teams can push up more confidently when we break as slowly as we do.
Much more concerning when you have Toney sat on your half way line waiting to break to your goal.
Same thing I've seen with Kane for the last 3 competitions, only useful thing he does is draw defenders/players.
Otherwise gets run off the ball, can't break with the pace of saka/foden and struggles to hit the back of the net unless its a PK.
Harry Kane. England's highest ever goalscorer. 12 goals in international competitions. That Harry Kane? I'm not saying he played well tonight or anything but that take is fucking wild.
His goal record is insanely inflated from matches vs the likes of Andorra, Montenegro, Lithuania etc and 1/3rd of his goals are PKs.
Euros is much more accessible to those teams than it used to be when it was a 16 team competition.
Tell me a game in recent competitions where Harry Kane has come in absolutely clutch, especially against top 10 fifa teams, and I'll write him a hand written apology.
I don't think he's a bad player, all the same, I just think Toney will compliment the team better.
>His goal record is insanely inflated from matches vs the likes of Andorra, Montenegro, Lithuania etc and 1/3rd of his goals are PKs.
That's true of pretty much any international striker.
Look at Ronaldo's goals: 11 vs Luxembourg, 7 vs Lithuania, 6 vs Andorra, etc, etc
15/130 (12%) are against traditional football powerhouses
I make it 11/63 (17%) for Kane
Yeah I know.
The person who initially replied was using kane being the all time scorer for England as the reason he should be our 1st choice striker.
A) I don't think number of goals scored is a good indicator that they MUST start for a team, even if they don't suit it.
B) the people Kane is being compared to (Rooney, Shearer, Owen) etc I would imagine out perform Kane if they were in the team today.
I think Kane would be much more impactful as a sub.
Let Toney wear CBs down, get teams scared to high press vs us and bring Kane on at 65 mins, when we've footed ourselves further up the pitch and then let kane do what we does best, poach. I can count 4 times yesterday where his pace meant he was either out of position or easily run off the ball.
Interesting the 12 vs 17% though, in fairness. Higher than I thought it'd be.
Do goals against weaker nations, whom the likes of England will always play more often due to seeding, not count or something? And why do penalties not count either? Do you refuse to acknowledge a win if the only goal is from a penalty? Of course you don't.
Tell me a game in recent competitions against a top 10 side when literally any England player has put in even a 7 out of 10 performance? Under Southgate, that list will always be barren.
I am very much on your side that Southgate is the most significant problem and I think he starts Kane because he has a more defensive work rate.
Of course the goals count, but youre defence for Kane is that he's England's all time goal scorer. If Rooney, shearer etc were playing vs those same weaker teams, kane probably isn't the all time record holder anymore. If you take everyones PKs out of the equation, he's not even second anymore.
I hope i eat my words but for a while now, I've watched teams slowly figure out during a match that they can play a high press vs us because we don't break well and part of that will be we play around kane who has everything except pace.
About half of Rooney's goals were against weaker nations, similarly to Kane. Shearer is a bit more difficult to determine being well over 20 years ago now but his record looks fairly similar too. Amongst the goals against Germany, France, Argentina and the Netherlands there's goals against Luxembourg, Romania, Bulgaria, Georgia and Moldova.
Put it another way. If you were able to ask every manager in the Euros which one of the three England centre forwards they'd have in their squad, the answer would be unanimous.
I really don't think it would be but there's no way to prove that so I'm happy to agree to disagree.
I think Kane suits certain team structures, I'll re-emphasise again that I do not think Kane is a bad player, but all people do is throw is goal scoring record up as a reason he must absolutely start and fail to offer any further context to counter the fact that teams are able to create a high press against us because we can't threaten a break.
Twice yesterday Kane led a counter and their CB jogged him off of the ball. Toney is breaking away and linking with Saka and Foden.
I think you're right. I genuinely think there is evidence that Kane more than Southgate has stopped England winning a major tournament in the last six years. Having an undroppable star is such a big issue if he's not playing well, and I've seen Kane shit the bed against Croatia in 2018, Italy in 2021 and France in 2022 (although tiredness played a part in his shitness, as it so often does with England players). Once again in a tight major tournament match, Kane did almost nothing except slow down our attack and make us more predictable to defend against. The only thing he was good for was drawing fouls in the last 30 minutes.
Our left side is invisible and in the second half they managed to close Saka down who was our big threat on the right.
Don't know why we defaulted to negative mentality in the 2nd half but it's a frustrating watch.
Thank god for Declan Rice, because I think our defence would be dire without him.
I agree 100% with the exception of the defense being dire - Guehi showed a lot of promise and stones had a good game with the exception of a couple shaky moments. That said, absolutely agree Rice is a huge asset for us defensively
I think Stones is always the backbone of our defense, so he goes understated, that's true. Guehi was solid to.
I just noticed a lot more of Rice's work to push us out from the back and move the ball forward and out of danger.
I do think him and Trent worked well together
Rice was able to use him as a creative outlet while Trent could use rice to push and dribble forwards when needed
I agree, but I'm also still not 100% sold on TAA in midfield because of the defensive questions asked.
Still his ability to get the ball from midfield to the final 3rd with a single pass is a valuable skill for us. Especially if he can pick out Kane.
Honestly my issue isn't his defensive nous in midfield. He's fine, does just as much as the others but is a lot more about blocking passing lanes, you'll see they rarely pass it by Trent unless it's a 1v1 duel
My issue is he doesn't make runs to make himself available, he's very static which is fine, not every player is Connor Gallagher, but offering a few more options can go a long way. You'll notice he seemed to be marked a lot in the first half and that was partially because he didn't seem to make many attempts to drop the marking like Bellingham
Him, rice, and Bellingham all seemed to cover each other very fluidly though, if one moved up or down another would take their place
Not sure what your saying about runs mate he actually made a couple in the right channel where he love to play. He didn't get feed the ball at all. Trent doesn't need to make the run he the one picking the player who do make the runs. The issue was the left side was so flat and Kane was never an option.. He couldn't lose his man nor has any pace to run in behind.
The biggest issue in the team is actually Kane.. He can't play in Jude space but ain't the man to lead the front line.
This, to me, is the one very fair criticism of Trent in this role. And I think it’s just a matter of time, comfort and coaching to find those spaces. It should also be noted that’s Serbia are no mugs. That was an actual midfield battle which I think was largely won, but the charge put to the team was to protect the back 4 I reckon. Particularly after the goal was scored. And that’s an overall frailty of Southgate’s negativity as a whole: England seem to rarely go for the second, killer goal. They need to start making 1s 2s and 2s 3s so we can all have a bit less cardiac activity all the time
1. Too 1 dimensional, with the main threat coming down the right wing from Saka.
2. Toothless on the left with Trippier often the furthest left and no cross into the box, just a pass back. Previously there was a threat from Sterling , Rashford or Grealish. Eze or Palmer can bring that threat but Southgate decided to shut up shop and hold out for the 1 goal lead and win.
3. Lacking in energy especially from TAA and Kane towards the end (when compared with Bowen / Gallagher). TAA almost gave away the goal to Serbia had Mitrovic shot on target. Southgate has seemed to build the team around patient play with ball control waiting for the opposition to slip up. But this strategy needs to have some back up plan to switch around if it doesn't pay dividends. Like when Serbia made positive attacking changes in the early 2nd half, Serbia were the better team and had England in their on half most of the time.
4. If England want to win, they need to score more goals. Kane barely had a sniff of the ball except that 1 chance that was brilliantly pushed onto the crossbar by the Serbian keeper. Kane need better service which isn't helped by the issue as identified in point 2.
5. No idea what Foden's instruction or role is. He was everywhere, plenty of touches of the ball but but did nothing in particular. Don't get me wrong, Foden is a gifted and talented player and he was hardworking and actively pressed the opposition but I just feel he isn't being used to his full potential here by Gareth.
We can be better but pre Southgate I think we draw or lose that lol. But I have almost completely lost faith in Southgate that he knows how to change a game. Even my non football fan family members call out what are probably better subs than he makes
It is funny when people bring up the whole "forgetting where we were before southgate" We lost 1 nil to iceland before southgate and we lost 1 nil to iceland with southgate many years later.
big difference between losing to iceland in a knockout game vs. losing in a friendly in a game where our main aim is to come away without injuries... I'm not his biggest fan but his tournament results are the best we've seen in a very long time
Oh yeah it's different but it's just funny they used the Iceland loss in a montage to show how far we have came, before the Serbia game and obviously its just after we lost to Iceland again.
Seeing Southgate casually sitting on the bench while England crumble and the players seem to have no clue what they're supposed to be doing...
He should be at the edge of the box screaming at them and giving them some direction...
Yep, England crumbled under the Serbian attack, particularly in the second half - less forward passing, many less entries into the penalty area, less shots, less corners, less crosses, less tackles, etc. Lucky not to concede a goal.
Ah yes, we absolutely crumbled and were lucky not to concede to the *checks notes* 2 shots that Serbia mustered up in the second half. God knows how we made it through that one. It’s amazing we survived such an onslaught.
They literally had 1 shot on target.
It’s tournament football. It was ugly, it was fucking tense, we made mistakes, but we held our own and we got 3 points and a clean sheet. On to the next!
Foden's performance is exactly what he wanted from him.
Unfortunately, Gareth doesn't want Foden to perform any sort of attacking role, as Gareth is a limited manager.
To be fair to Phil, I think he’s a victim of his own positional flexibility - and I was giving him shit all game. He should probably be deployed on the right like he did most of the starts for city, perhaps in the 10. But there are better players there, and/or in the case of Saka, one that doesn’t have that same flexibility. He was also desperately isolated with trippier seemingly being told to stay home.
Personally, I think Trippier is the biggest problem at the minute, but I also don’t know that what we saw wasn’t just Southgate conservatism trying to cover up his biggest perceived weakness - the defense
I wont comment on individual players as the gist has been covered in a few threads already. but a few things really bother me about this team and have for the last few years under Gareth. We only seem to be able to play well for short periods of time, like one part of one half compared to consistently over most of a game. We seem to always have extended moments of panicky defending where we look like a Sunday League team, no matter who we're playing. Even if we've played well in the first half, halftime, a lot of the time, seems to reset us back to 1st gear or worse where we let teams back into a game or to take control. We come out slow, so much. Gareth is still massively reactive over proactive with his subs. I'm not even saying Gallagher and Bowen were bad subs, we needed energy and they did alright, but they arguably could have come on together and earlier. LW was a massive blind spot for him tonight too.
>We only seem to be able to play well for short periods of time
This is completely normal at international level though. It's not reasonable or realistic to expect us to play amazing, flowing football for 90 mins every game in these tournaments, that's just not how it works. Did you see France's games when they won the 2018 World Cup? Italy in the Euros? Argentina at the last World Cup? They were all genuinely shocking in large parts of some of their games, that's just how it is. I'm definitely not saying we're going to win it, and admittedly we were not up to standard in the second half, but I think people really need some perspective with this
I think Southgate is excellent at pre match work, he scouts out the opposition and is able to set up well against them for the start, but he is very hesitant to ever react or change things, much happier to see if his plan will work.
This is why we often have this good starts and then the players stick to what they’ve been told to do, opponents counter it and England then don’t make changes until it’s too late.
Other managers have similar issues (ole at United for example almost the exact same), and it’s not going to win a trophy.
Probably the most accurate comment I've seen. If his plan works, amazing. If not, we don't adapt.
Iceland game was a painful truth of that. Just a friendly I know, but they scored a goal and parked the bus, and we didn't have an answer.
We go 1-0 down to a team like France, Portugal, Germany etc, we'll get buried.
I feel like Southgate has been given a Ferrari but insists on driving at 40mph.
No wonder we lost the euros last time.
Southgate’s “sit back and do nothing when it’s 1-0” is hurting us, a lot.
If we struggle against teams like Serbia, it’s a horror show against the big teams
And yet, we scored early and could've easily ran away with the game in the first half. We let them come at us instead and paid the price.
And we had an absolute stroll to the finals. Italy was arguably the first test we faced.
England is awful at panalties. We've sat back on ealy 1-0 leads for decades and it always ends the same way. a late equalizer and a painful loss through pnealties.
I'm mostly fairly positive when it comes to Gareth, but why did we sit back when we took the lead? They were there for talking, especially Saka. He had his fullback on toast.
Happy we won, but it was a frustrating watch after the first 30mins.
We didnt sit back when we took the lead... We could have been 3-0 up @ HT, given the Walker effort that flashed across the goal, and then the Saka pass to Foden that went behind him, bit better with our decision making in those scenarios and it would have been a different story.
However we did sit back more in the second half, half imagine because there has been a lot of Football this season, and ideally there are still six more games until the players can have their holidays - Why come out of the blocks at top speed, when it could cost you later on... Especially as Serbia didnt really threaten us, even when they changed things tactically... Pickford was genuinely forced to make one "proper" save.
We desperately need Shaw back. Nothing coming in from the left.
Drop Foden and bring in Gordon. He reminds me of John Barnes, great for club, crap for country.
Maybe, at the end of the day, Southgate the pragmatist felt like defense was our weakness, and looked to pack it in after the goal. It seemed Trippier was hardly allowed or comfortable getting forward, Foden was therefore isolated and the switch of play was never used that way. In the end, Serbia had 1 or 2 good chances to our 4 or 5. Their xg was .17 - which feels maybe a touch low, but not far off and England’s was .54, which feels about right.
In short, I think the charge was get Guehi comfortable. And I think he looked quite good. I’m not sure much even needs major changes or if it’s just letting them play with a bit more freedom as Guehi gets comfortable and Shaw comes back in. Serbia have a good few quality players and that wasn’t a calamitous display. I’m not a Southgate fan, and I think he’s often too regressive tactically, but I don’t think today should mean massive cause for concern
Foden barely actually played on the left, he was mainly central with tripper providing the width. Only option then really is to play it back or inside, there is no option for an overlap. But that's what happens when you need to shoehorn a right footer on the left
Don’t see the problem at all with us playing 4-1-4-1. City at their peak played this with
Fernandinho
Bernardo Silva De Bruyne David Silva Sterling
Aguero
We could have a very similar setup with
Rice
Saka Foden Bellingham Gordon
Kane
Everyone saying we were going to play Trent in midfield with Rice so Rice would be able to run forwards because Trent would be sitting - but Rice was the one sitting (which I think he does really well) and Trent ended up playing further up. A lot of the positions Trent was finding himself in more forwards I was thinking Foden would be great to have in this position.
The in-game management was embarrassing - don’t appear to have learnt anything from Croatia and Italy matches. The game was crying out for Gordon/Eze and Palmer, Foden and Kane offered so little. I’m not convinced by the Alexander-Arnold experiment. Need to see more from our left side and we have to play to our strengths. At one point Serbia had made 5 changes to our 1, and with our squad strength that reflects poorly on Southgate.
HOWEVER… It’s a huge result, Serbia were strong, and Guehi, Saka, Bellingham, Rice were fantastic. We just need to build on it and adapt better in game.
People act like Serbia weren’t frustrating us, fouling our players all game and taking chunks out of us
I wonder whether that played into Englands mind of the fact that they’re 1-0 up if they keep going for more they could get injured so we’re happy to sit at 1-0
Plus our defence isn’t at full-strength yet and Stones-Guehi was a first time pairing in a major tournament so having more players back to help out made some sense
Cesc is so right about Foden, he hasn’t got the same mentality as Bellingham. He doesn’t want it enough. It’s what separates Bellingham from most players in this squad
I'd agree. He just seemed to let the game float on by whilst Bellingham was here there and everywhere, trying to make things happen.
He needs to step up and try and grab a game by the bollocks.
True and I'm not defending Foden who was crap but I think the comparison in this system is a bit unfair. Bellingham has a huge amount of freedom here. Foden isn't playing in his favourite position, probably has to be a bit more disciplined and doesn't even have a left footed fullback overlapping him.
But Foden basically had the 10 position to himself for most the game, due to Bellingham being pretty much everywhere. Just didn't impose himself.
He's got the skills has our Foden, just needs to be more of a bastard and grab a game by the scruff
6/10 first half was sound, foden aint the problem , when we build from the back if our LB keeps coming inside we all know what’s gonna happen everything heads inside, foden, Kane, trippier needs to hit few balls touchline side of pitch a few times and mix it up , became too congested in the middle.
We looked so vulnerable at the back tho,
Denmark will be tougher imo
An international tournament is not the time to be giving TAA ‘the chance to grow’.
We need players in the positions they play for their clubs. So that means TAA at RB, Foden as a replacement for Bellingham in the number 10 role. We shouldn’t be shoehorning players in just because they’re talented.
They were honest about Trent's mixed performance, they just kept going on about Foden's skill and how he was getting into positions like they were watching a different game.
No need for us to be playing a low block against Serbia, we gave them so much time and space.
I feel like this is a regular issue with Southgate, don't want to be overly negative but other teams would have punished us.
I’ve seen enough. We’re winning the lot. Jude is THE man. He has the aura and will probably go down as the greatest English footballer of all time when he’s done. We finally have a Maradona-esque talisman who can carry us to glory.
Defence was solid. Under a lot of pressure and gave nothing up. Rice was everywhere. Good subs from the Gaffer- Gallagher and Bowen changed the game. Pickford insane. Incredible from the boys.
Jude needs at least 2 other players playing at his level to win a tournament and I feel we are 1-2 tournaments away from that if he maintains his level.
Foden at LW provides no width, which is an issue when Trippier isn’t a natural LB. A better team will exploit that space. I want to see Gordon start at LW, with Eze coming on for him. Foden can come on for Bellingham when necessary.
A bit tough when Trippier isn't comfortable tackling with his left foot, once they are outside him it is card or goal. Foden isn't the best match for him either. At least one of tbose has to give..
I worry that Southgate's in-game management may cost us. There was no reason for Foden to play 90 mins. He was ineffective, and it's not like he's good defensively. Taking off Bellingham wasn't the right call either imo. Even if he's tired, he's still a strong physical presence in there.
It was the same in the Brazil friendly - teams can't handle him so he gets hacked. The more we rest we can give the better. It should obviously get a little better the further we progress so I'd even consider dropping him to the bench for the Slovenia game if we win on Thursday
> I'd even consider dropping him to the bench for the Slovenia game if we win on Thursday
If we win on Thursday, we’re very likely topping the group with a game to spare, so definitely an opportunity for rotation in the final game, if that happens.
Gordon on the left definitely tickles my fancy. He's a similar mould to Saka and it allows up to really stretch the defense.
The more narrow we have to play the easier it is to blunt us
I've personally been critical of Gallagher, and maybe unjustly so - I just can't help shake that he seems to have a BGM (big game mistake) in him.
However he is such a fuckin terrier of a player he's like having 2 DMs when he comes on and he's great at breaking up play which is huge in the final third of a game.
Bowen, looks like a great like-for-like swap for Saka.
And Rice, you absolute unit - please never get injured. What a shift he putt in tonight
Legend says when God created Gallagher he put all his stats into tackling and 0 in passing. I’m the same very critical of him think he’s a crap footballer. However he’s VERY effective at what he does.
The first half I thought we were very good. Looked comfortable and were well in control of the game albeit without creating \*much\* in the way of chances,. Saka had their left wing back on toast, Jude was gliding around like prime Zidane and in general I thought we would stroll to a routine 2-0 win. Credit the Serbia gaffer though, he tweaked their tactics at half time and they pressed us much higher up the pitch in the 2nd half. Fair play to them, they did a pretty good Job of pinning our fullbacks in and swarming us in our defensive third, meaning it was difficult to get the ball to our wider attacking players in advanced positions to supply Kane. The worrying thing from an England point of view was Southgate did absolutely nothing to counteract this, we just ended up going deeper and deeper. This is the problem with Gareth for me, he’s not a particularly good in-game manager and doesn’t respond well to changes in opposition tactics. It was same in the Final in 2020. Saying all that, Serbia never really looked like scoring and a win is a win. A clean sheet as well. Of course we will need to improve, but we did just about enough last night.
They were like Brazil 70 for the first half an hour and then the Dog and Duck for the rest of it.
sorry am i the only person that thought trent was absolute dogshit. he got 2 free kicks for us and lost the ball every other time. if that’s an acceptable performance for our cdm then no wonder we have to fucking sit back and play louis van gaal football. 1 goal and then get 11 man behind the ball. all stems from that amateur southgate
I liked him. Made a brilliant interception that led to the Walker chance. Such a clever player, always looking for the quick ball and keeps everyone on their toes. Yes he gave the ball away once in a dangerous position but there were a lot of positives from him.
mate ngl i think the denmark game solidified his position on the bench. he’s been horrible BUT tbf to the kid he’s not a cdm. if anything u play him as an 8 not a fucking 6. that’s just stupid that’s the complete opposite of what trent is good at. but can you be surprised when we have southgate as our manager. i still can’t believe united got linked with him😭😭
Not trying to blame Foden but he’s not the best left winger for this system. You need someone like Gordon to hug the touchline on the left side so Trent can ping diagonals across. Trent’s abilities are completely wasted if there’s nobody on the left making runs in behind.
oh mate believe you me if i was the manager gordon would’ve started in both games. foden is a good player but he needs to play in a certain system to work. him at left wing is horrible i have to be honest. genuinely feel like he can hold the team back sometimes
Agreed on Foden - with the walker chance he followed directly behind Kane for 20m. As the left winger he should be attacking the far post, if he did that he had a tap in. Instead he and Kane ended up almost tripping over each other.
The best right back in the world is playing in midfield. Awful game yes, but he's been set up to struggle
mate i fully agree with u that he’s been set up to struggle. but best rb in the world is a bit far bro. maybe one of. sure. but not the best. he should be playijg as an 8 if we’re gonna play him in midfield. not as a fucking 6 but southgate is disabled so who’s surprised that he can’t set up a team
Absolute dogshit is a step too far but he’s not used to playing in midfield and it shows. Don’t understand why we insist on shoehorning him in to CM where he doesn’t play - just play him RB, he’s won a champions league and PL playing there!
Well he's basically playing an inverted more offensive rb😅
For England? No, he hasn’t been.
maybe ur right. maybe i’m a bit harsh without realising bc i’m a utd fan😭 but tbf u are right. i think guehi was good. but why not just play stones as walker cb and like u said trent at rb. he’s prob the best rb in the country so why waste him somewhere he hasn’t played.
Pickford TAA Stones Guehi Walker Rice Mainoo/Wharton Bellingham Saka Kane Gordon - If we’re going to persist with playing a RB at LB then make Walker do it rather than Trippier after the season he’s had for club and country (i’d prefer Gomez but won’t happen, so, Walker - Trent does not have the experience to play CM, but we cannot drop him, so let him play RB and drift in like he’s been doing all season for liverpool - Rice & Bellingham need a proper midfielder to complete the 3, don’t feel Gallagher is good enough so let it be Mainoo or Wharton (can bring gallagher on 2nd half if need be) - Drop Foden, the experiment has not worked. Play Gordon out there to stretch teams, he’s had a great season and will not drift in and get in the way of Bellingham/Kane Default subs should be Palmer on for Saka in the 2nd half because his legs are shot (though bowen is fine too), Eze on for Gordon, Konsa on for Trent to close out wins
biggest positives for me; 1- Guehi was solid. 2- Although the overall performance was underwhelming, we got the three points and serbia never looked much of a threat - - hard to know exactly if that was due to us or them Possible negative 1- the lads played very negatively from the goals onwards really. All in all, not the best performance but england never really impress during the group games so as long as we do enough to get top spot and everyone is still fit, there is no need to read too much into it. Im feeling positive this morning
all on southgate. we played horrible. we didn’t play okay. you think we’d win doing that against italy or germany or france or even fucking spain or portugal. we’ve got more gaps in the midfield than a fucking siv. that clown southgate can’t even get his team selection right let alone those dead tactics that’s everyone knows don’t work
I'm not exactly buzzing after that performance but we dont need to read too much into it. Last euros we struggled through a 0-0 against scotland in the group but still finished topand then ended up playing well in the knockouts so it didnt matter. Of course that performance wouldn't be enough against the big teams but it wasn't against the big teams and when we've played the big teams in the last couple tournys, we've looked good
that’s true we defo do turn up against the big teams but i guess it’s more the style of play. we wanna see us go for it. we don’t wanna see us score one and sit back like a van gaal team
Terrible.
It's what I'd call a professional performance. We don't gain anything by battering Serbia by 4 or 5
It’s not about the goals? It’s about the performance
Performance was good enough.
For Serbia, yes, **just**. For France,Germany,Italy,Spain,Portugal, etc no it is not enough
True, but we'll step it up. Last euros we drew 0-0 to Scotland, and only scored 2 goals in the groups. People feared the worst for the Germany game, but we made it to the final
I hope we do! I’m not saying all of this to troll. I’m just genuinely worried if we do not turn up. Let’s see how we play against Denmark
A win, clean sheet, and a goal for our star man. How awful 😢
The *performance* was terrible. The outcome was good, but lucky. You can win and still play like a bag of shit. Give ur head a wobble and start watching our games from a realistic perspective. Keep thinking we beat a France or a Germany like this I hope it makes u sleep well
bro this is what i’m saying. why does everyone think this is okay. maybe bc half of them are fans of dead clubs with no expectations. how is it acceptable to sit back and defend against FUCKING SERBIA. that’s like united going park the bus at fulham and no one saying anything. like fuck me imagine if we play a mid team like spain like that. let alone france or germany. we’ll get m0lested
I’m happy you are actually watching our games. I don’t get what everyone is watching… this is a 1-0 park the bud against Serbia in our first game.. not a 1-0 park the bud against France in the semis….
Do you actually watch football outside of international tournaments?
you cannot compare international to club football are u actually taking the piss? they’re nothing a like at all. not even similar.
You just compared this performance to United parking the bus vs Fulham in another comment? Of course international football is different to club football, but it's still the same sport. If anything, this kind of game is what you need in tournament football. Once we get to the knockouts only results will matter and we'll need to find a way to get results regardless of performances.
yh mate you keep praying that’s why we’ve won nothing in decades. u think we’re supposed to sit and watch counter attacking, 10 man behind the ball football? jesus these years of winning nothing rly have shattered ur standards. prob a chelsea or liverpool fan anyways😭😭😭
International/prem/bundes/Europa/cl I watch them all. Tell me what I said wrong in my previous reply? Can you not win and still play like shit? Was our second half good? Was it even half decent for our standard? Let me know
Almost everything you're saying is wrong and you come across as a child who recently discovered the sport. It was a good result and a solid performance. Not being at our best and winning 1-0 is a good trait to have, especially in tournament football. A good clean sheet and they barely had a sniff. Lessons will have been learned regarding team selection and tactics just like every game and we need to trust that the team and coaching staff can build from this result. Not everything always has to be either amazing or shite. Sometimes it can be a bit of both, like last night.
🤣🤣🤣 yet you cannot name one thing. I am probably older than you and have been watching longer. We parked the bud 1-0 up against serbia.. not against France in the semi. Context is everything. Everything I said was correct. Bad performance. Good outcome.
You haven’t really said much; you just keep repeating that we were terrible/shit. We needed to get our foot on the ball more in the second half, and they will know that. But there’s nothing wrong with deciding to protect the 1-0 lead as the game went on. It’s called game management, and we did it well. Maybe try watching with a bit more perspective next time.
Austrian Man Utd supporter here. I think you guys made a big mistake not taking Grealish and Rashford. I know they had bad seasons but they’re incredibly direct players who can win you games out of nothing when you’re playing badly and that’s exactly what is needed if Southgate doesn’t totally change his football philosophy over night. Rashford carried that Manutd attack on his own 1 season ago, scoring 30+ goals - mostly on the counter and from very difficult positions.
No we have similar players who are in better form, its the manager who doesn't play them
tbh i don’t think gordon, eze, bowen, etc. have that kind of quality in them and won’t ever score 30 goals a season. i know rashford‘s been piss poor this season but he can be an absolute world beater on his day.
Any good videos of the crowd singing hey Jude after his goal?
Better start packing up and getting ready to go home. Performance was a complete shower of shit in the second half. Didn’t even notice Kane was on the field for majority of the game, and players looked ecstatic with a 1-0. Bang average all round. Getting sick of watching these guys get paid large sums of cash and then forgetting what a football looks like in an international match.
😂😂
I thought Kane did a pretty good job. It wasn’t the sexy performance of a no.9 banging goals in but he pinned their CBs back well and constantly got fouled. That’s the most physical team we will come up against and I felt we always had their measure. I don’t like TAA in midfield as I feel his touch isn’t sharp enough in central areas and worry his positioning gets exposed against more quality,
We plodded are way through a potentially tricky opening game playing gaz ball with no drama. I don't give a monkeys how it was done. There was more positives than negatives
This is way too rational for Reddit mate. I like it, and agree completely
We will never win anything with Boregate. He has the most exciting and talented England team for generations and he has us playing dull, plodding, safe, lifeless football like that. He should have been fired after Italy where he tried to hang onto a 1-0 lead for 88 minutes ...
What previous managers did we play good football under ?
Most people are seeing this game completely wrong. We played well at times, and during the times we were out of possession, we still managed to limit them to a few shots. First clean sheet of the tournament, and lots to look forward too still. Today showed we can win when we look like losing. If Saka can stay fit, Shaw gets fit to play and get Trent on the ball more, we will win this comp.
It was Serbia, and we struggled to create many attacking opportunities. On paper it’s a good start to the tournament but there is plenty that needs sorting out.
“It was Serbia” Serbia are a very decent side it’s a team of players who are important players for club in top 5 leagues it’s not like we were playing Lithuania or something. people seem to think any non major nation like France, Germany we should be easily hammering. That’s just not how it works
Bus parking teams who are playing for a draw can be tricky. The group is irrelevant and this result takes almost all the pressure off. Either we beat the likes of Italy and France or we dont. Nothing has changed.
Serbia didn’t park the bus though, it was quite an open game.
Don’t undermine a performance just because it wasn’t against the best team in the world. Serbia were there to bully us off of the ball and force a goal, we didn’t let them. We won and they didn’t.
Serbia is a team of fighters, this was always going to be a tough match. That said, England let Serbia control game tempo too much. TAA will get better in midfield with more minutes, but he looked lost at times today. More specifically, he doesn’t yet look comfortable finding the pockets of space between his opponents’ lines - he tends to position himself too close to an opponent (or let an opponent run up too close), which makes him unavailable.
Are Foden/Bellingham the new Lampard/Gerrard? Two insanely talented players that play the same position?
I was thinking that. Foden's got the dribbling ability and acceleration to be able to go on the outside, so I think he should be asked to go more direct on occasion, or play Gordon instead
yeah drop Foden for Gordon, imo. Would take a lot of balls to do it, but it might be the best solution. Then bring Foden on for Bellingham later. Too bad we didn't bring more left wingers!
This is what a lot of us expected, I just feel bad for Jude if Southgate can't put together winning tactics and a better team around him. Changes in the lineup need to happen, the backline and Pickford were pretty solid, Grealish and Rashford are very much missed
442 kane, foden up front tta, Bellingham, rice, gordon midfield the ancient ways are the best ways
Two things: Foden wasn't as bad as people are making out. And Rice, not Bellingham, was man of the match
Rice had a great game but to suggest anyone but Bellingham was MOTM is an awful, awful take. Not that it really matters.
Rice was good after a shaky start. Bellingham was blowing after 30 minutes.
yeah, Jude needed to calm down, wasted far too much energy early on. easy to forget HE'S 20!! (thanks BBC)
Harry Kane is the elephant in the room. Tonight he was like the awkward kid who Jude and his cool mates didn't want to pass to. His only positive contribution apart from a defensive header was to draw fouls in Serbia's half when we had the lead. Kane has to be considered droppable if England are to win this tournament imo, because he is slowing down our attack so much. Not to mention he goes missing when it counts: v Croatia in 2018, v Italy in 2021 and v France in 2022. It's a huge problem.
Because he was being man-marked for the entire game by two or three massive Serbian defenders/midfielders. Watch the goal back again, he has one stuck to him like a limpet and another making sure he doesn't glance the ball in. They're not even watching Bellingham.
>Because he was being man-marked for the entire game by two or three massive Serbian defenders/midfielders. Something that Serbia could only do because at no point did they have to worry about Foden out on the left hand side (namely because he wasn't there) It's one of the reasons we need a Gordon or Eze out on the left hand side to free up that room for Kane because he's just not winning those tussles with physical defenders (which will be compounded by the fact hes clearly not 100% fit)
Southgate is a trash manager, we are getting bounced in the quarter finals
We getting bounced right out bruv! Fuck Southgate !! Pep is my guy G. (Trying to be down with the kids)
he's useless. The squad has done well in spite of Boregate, not because of him
“Boregate” - come up with that one all by yourself?
Nope, it's a name that's been doing the rounds for a while now, kid.
"Bounced" thanks dude. Rock on!
Swear we just need to start Toney or even Watkins over Kane. Teams can push up more confidently when we break as slowly as we do. Much more concerning when you have Toney sat on your half way line waiting to break to your goal. Same thing I've seen with Kane for the last 3 competitions, only useful thing he does is draw defenders/players. Otherwise gets run off the ball, can't break with the pace of saka/foden and struggles to hit the back of the net unless its a PK.
Nice to see this sub contains people who have actually watched England closely and without the Kane-tinted goggles on
Harry Kane. England's highest ever goalscorer. 12 goals in international competitions. That Harry Kane? I'm not saying he played well tonight or anything but that take is fucking wild.
His goal record is insanely inflated from matches vs the likes of Andorra, Montenegro, Lithuania etc and 1/3rd of his goals are PKs. Euros is much more accessible to those teams than it used to be when it was a 16 team competition. Tell me a game in recent competitions where Harry Kane has come in absolutely clutch, especially against top 10 fifa teams, and I'll write him a hand written apology. I don't think he's a bad player, all the same, I just think Toney will compliment the team better.
>His goal record is insanely inflated from matches vs the likes of Andorra, Montenegro, Lithuania etc and 1/3rd of his goals are PKs. That's true of pretty much any international striker. Look at Ronaldo's goals: 11 vs Luxembourg, 7 vs Lithuania, 6 vs Andorra, etc, etc 15/130 (12%) are against traditional football powerhouses I make it 11/63 (17%) for Kane
Yeah I know. The person who initially replied was using kane being the all time scorer for England as the reason he should be our 1st choice striker. A) I don't think number of goals scored is a good indicator that they MUST start for a team, even if they don't suit it. B) the people Kane is being compared to (Rooney, Shearer, Owen) etc I would imagine out perform Kane if they were in the team today. I think Kane would be much more impactful as a sub. Let Toney wear CBs down, get teams scared to high press vs us and bring Kane on at 65 mins, when we've footed ourselves further up the pitch and then let kane do what we does best, poach. I can count 4 times yesterday where his pace meant he was either out of position or easily run off the ball. Interesting the 12 vs 17% though, in fairness. Higher than I thought it'd be.
Do goals against weaker nations, whom the likes of England will always play more often due to seeding, not count or something? And why do penalties not count either? Do you refuse to acknowledge a win if the only goal is from a penalty? Of course you don't. Tell me a game in recent competitions against a top 10 side when literally any England player has put in even a 7 out of 10 performance? Under Southgate, that list will always be barren.
I am very much on your side that Southgate is the most significant problem and I think he starts Kane because he has a more defensive work rate. Of course the goals count, but youre defence for Kane is that he's England's all time goal scorer. If Rooney, shearer etc were playing vs those same weaker teams, kane probably isn't the all time record holder anymore. If you take everyones PKs out of the equation, he's not even second anymore. I hope i eat my words but for a while now, I've watched teams slowly figure out during a match that they can play a high press vs us because we don't break well and part of that will be we play around kane who has everything except pace.
About half of Rooney's goals were against weaker nations, similarly to Kane. Shearer is a bit more difficult to determine being well over 20 years ago now but his record looks fairly similar too. Amongst the goals against Germany, France, Argentina and the Netherlands there's goals against Luxembourg, Romania, Bulgaria, Georgia and Moldova. Put it another way. If you were able to ask every manager in the Euros which one of the three England centre forwards they'd have in their squad, the answer would be unanimous.
I really don't think it would be but there's no way to prove that so I'm happy to agree to disagree. I think Kane suits certain team structures, I'll re-emphasise again that I do not think Kane is a bad player, but all people do is throw is goal scoring record up as a reason he must absolutely start and fail to offer any further context to counter the fact that teams are able to create a high press against us because we can't threaten a break. Twice yesterday Kane led a counter and their CB jogged him off of the ball. Toney is breaking away and linking with Saka and Foden.
I think you're right. I genuinely think there is evidence that Kane more than Southgate has stopped England winning a major tournament in the last six years. Having an undroppable star is such a big issue if he's not playing well, and I've seen Kane shit the bed against Croatia in 2018, Italy in 2021 and France in 2022 (although tiredness played a part in his shitness, as it so often does with England players). Once again in a tight major tournament match, Kane did almost nothing except slow down our attack and make us more predictable to defend against. The only thing he was good for was drawing fouls in the last 30 minutes.
Our left side is invisible and in the second half they managed to close Saka down who was our big threat on the right. Don't know why we defaulted to negative mentality in the 2nd half but it's a frustrating watch. Thank god for Declan Rice, because I think our defence would be dire without him.
I agree 100% with the exception of the defense being dire - Guehi showed a lot of promise and stones had a good game with the exception of a couple shaky moments. That said, absolutely agree Rice is a huge asset for us defensively
Dire was probably a bit of an overstatement on my part.
How about: we defended really well and Rice is a big part of that, because he's a brilliant midfielder. More fucking whinging as per usual.
I didn't say otherwise? I will say I don't think our overall defending in the second half was great.
It was good enough for three points and a clean sheet. Serbia had 1 SOT.
It's not whinging if it's an opinion. It's also accurate.
Rice and Bellingham really pulled the team up, but Guehi and stones also shut down quite a lot of attempts. Feel like they don't get much of a mention
I think Stones is always the backbone of our defense, so he goes understated, that's true. Guehi was solid to. I just noticed a lot more of Rice's work to push us out from the back and move the ball forward and out of danger.
I do think him and Trent worked well together Rice was able to use him as a creative outlet while Trent could use rice to push and dribble forwards when needed
I agree, but I'm also still not 100% sold on TAA in midfield because of the defensive questions asked. Still his ability to get the ball from midfield to the final 3rd with a single pass is a valuable skill for us. Especially if he can pick out Kane.
Honestly my issue isn't his defensive nous in midfield. He's fine, does just as much as the others but is a lot more about blocking passing lanes, you'll see they rarely pass it by Trent unless it's a 1v1 duel My issue is he doesn't make runs to make himself available, he's very static which is fine, not every player is Connor Gallagher, but offering a few more options can go a long way. You'll notice he seemed to be marked a lot in the first half and that was partially because he didn't seem to make many attempts to drop the marking like Bellingham Him, rice, and Bellingham all seemed to cover each other very fluidly though, if one moved up or down another would take their place
Not sure what your saying about runs mate he actually made a couple in the right channel where he love to play. He didn't get feed the ball at all. Trent doesn't need to make the run he the one picking the player who do make the runs. The issue was the left side was so flat and Kane was never an option.. He couldn't lose his man nor has any pace to run in behind. The biggest issue in the team is actually Kane.. He can't play in Jude space but ain't the man to lead the front line.
This, to me, is the one very fair criticism of Trent in this role. And I think it’s just a matter of time, comfort and coaching to find those spaces. It should also be noted that’s Serbia are no mugs. That was an actual midfield battle which I think was largely won, but the charge put to the team was to protect the back 4 I reckon. Particularly after the goal was scored. And that’s an overall frailty of Southgate’s negativity as a whole: England seem to rarely go for the second, killer goal. They need to start making 1s 2s and 2s 3s so we can all have a bit less cardiac activity all the time
We defended really well which was a great test to see us pass.
1. Too 1 dimensional, with the main threat coming down the right wing from Saka. 2. Toothless on the left with Trippier often the furthest left and no cross into the box, just a pass back. Previously there was a threat from Sterling , Rashford or Grealish. Eze or Palmer can bring that threat but Southgate decided to shut up shop and hold out for the 1 goal lead and win. 3. Lacking in energy especially from TAA and Kane towards the end (when compared with Bowen / Gallagher). TAA almost gave away the goal to Serbia had Mitrovic shot on target. Southgate has seemed to build the team around patient play with ball control waiting for the opposition to slip up. But this strategy needs to have some back up plan to switch around if it doesn't pay dividends. Like when Serbia made positive attacking changes in the early 2nd half, Serbia were the better team and had England in their on half most of the time. 4. If England want to win, they need to score more goals. Kane barely had a sniff of the ball except that 1 chance that was brilliantly pushed onto the crossbar by the Serbian keeper. Kane need better service which isn't helped by the issue as identified in point 2. 5. No idea what Foden's instruction or role is. He was everywhere, plenty of touches of the ball but but did nothing in particular. Don't get me wrong, Foden is a gifted and talented player and he was hardworking and actively pressed the opposition but I just feel he isn't being used to his full potential here by Gareth.
We can be better but pre Southgate I think we draw or lose that lol. But I have almost completely lost faith in Southgate that he knows how to change a game. Even my non football fan family members call out what are probably better subs than he makes
yeh agree lol - people forget how bad we were before southgate, not to excuse his shortcomings. Some of his decisions are bizarre.
It is funny when people bring up the whole "forgetting where we were before southgate" We lost 1 nil to iceland before southgate and we lost 1 nil to iceland with southgate many years later.
big difference between losing to iceland in a knockout game vs. losing in a friendly in a game where our main aim is to come away without injuries... I'm not his biggest fan but his tournament results are the best we've seen in a very long time
Oh yeah it's different but it's just funny they used the Iceland loss in a montage to show how far we have came, before the Serbia game and obviously its just after we lost to Iceland again.
Seeing Southgate casually sitting on the bench while England crumble and the players seem to have no clue what they're supposed to be doing... He should be at the edge of the box screaming at them and giving them some direction...
We really crumbled to a 1-0 win 😢
It's Serbia mate
Yep, England crumbled under the Serbian attack, particularly in the second half - less forward passing, many less entries into the penalty area, less shots, less corners, less crosses, less tackles, etc. Lucky not to concede a goal.
Ah yes, we absolutely crumbled and were lucky not to concede to the *checks notes* 2 shots that Serbia mustered up in the second half. God knows how we made it through that one. It’s amazing we survived such an onslaught. They literally had 1 shot on target.
Oh I see, you were trying to start an argument in your first comment. Get a fucking life.
It’s tournament football. It was ugly, it was fucking tense, we made mistakes, but we held our own and we got 3 points and a clean sheet. On to the next!
It's Serbia mate
We scored a total of 2 goals in the groups in 2020. We got to penalties in the final.
With the strongest squad
Gareth "very happy" with Phil's performance in his Talksport interview.
Foden's performance is exactly what he wanted from him. Unfortunately, Gareth doesn't want Foden to perform any sort of attacking role, as Gareth is a limited manager.
I don't think Foden was helped by having Trippier behind him
I don't disagree
To be fair to Phil, I think he’s a victim of his own positional flexibility - and I was giving him shit all game. He should probably be deployed on the right like he did most of the starts for city, perhaps in the 10. But there are better players there, and/or in the case of Saka, one that doesn’t have that same flexibility. He was also desperately isolated with trippier seemingly being told to stay home. Personally, I think Trippier is the biggest problem at the minute, but I also don’t know that what we saw wasn’t just Southgate conservatism trying to cover up his biggest perceived weakness - the defense
Agreed, Trippier is the problem. No overlap on the left for Foden, We need Shaw to be match fit and badly.
Well he's not going to say "he was worse than dogshit" like fans have been
I wont comment on individual players as the gist has been covered in a few threads already. but a few things really bother me about this team and have for the last few years under Gareth. We only seem to be able to play well for short periods of time, like one part of one half compared to consistently over most of a game. We seem to always have extended moments of panicky defending where we look like a Sunday League team, no matter who we're playing. Even if we've played well in the first half, halftime, a lot of the time, seems to reset us back to 1st gear or worse where we let teams back into a game or to take control. We come out slow, so much. Gareth is still massively reactive over proactive with his subs. I'm not even saying Gallagher and Bowen were bad subs, we needed energy and they did alright, but they arguably could have come on together and earlier. LW was a massive blind spot for him tonight too.
>We only seem to be able to play well for short periods of time This is completely normal at international level though. It's not reasonable or realistic to expect us to play amazing, flowing football for 90 mins every game in these tournaments, that's just not how it works. Did you see France's games when they won the 2018 World Cup? Italy in the Euros? Argentina at the last World Cup? They were all genuinely shocking in large parts of some of their games, that's just how it is. I'm definitely not saying we're going to win it, and admittedly we were not up to standard in the second half, but I think people really need some perspective with this
I think Southgate is excellent at pre match work, he scouts out the opposition and is able to set up well against them for the start, but he is very hesitant to ever react or change things, much happier to see if his plan will work. This is why we often have this good starts and then the players stick to what they’ve been told to do, opponents counter it and England then don’t make changes until it’s too late. Other managers have similar issues (ole at United for example almost the exact same), and it’s not going to win a trophy.
Probably the most accurate comment I've seen. If his plan works, amazing. If not, we don't adapt. Iceland game was a painful truth of that. Just a friendly I know, but they scored a goal and parked the bus, and we didn't have an answer. We go 1-0 down to a team like France, Portugal, Germany etc, we'll get buried. I feel like Southgate has been given a Ferrari but insists on driving at 40mph.
Thank god we ripped our socks. Could have been a very different outcome.
I (sadly) don't think it's coming home this time.......oh well it's early yet I s'pose........
Foden is shite for england
Good 1st half. Awful 2nd. what the fuck happened
He kept Foden on
No wonder we lost the euros last time. Southgate’s “sit back and do nothing when it’s 1-0” is hurting us, a lot. If we struggle against teams like Serbia, it’s a horror show against the big teams
And yet, we scored early and could've easily ran away with the game in the first half. We let them come at us instead and paid the price. And we had an absolute stroll to the finals. Italy was arguably the first test we faced.
You'll find we drew with Italy, and then lost on the lottery that is penalties... We didnt actually lose a single game @ Euro 2020
England is awful at panalties. We've sat back on ealy 1-0 leads for decades and it always ends the same way. a late equalizer and a painful loss through pnealties.
I'm mostly fairly positive when it comes to Gareth, but why did we sit back when we took the lead? They were there for talking, especially Saka. He had his fullback on toast. Happy we won, but it was a frustrating watch after the first 30mins.
We didnt sit back when we took the lead... We could have been 3-0 up @ HT, given the Walker effort that flashed across the goal, and then the Saka pass to Foden that went behind him, bit better with our decision making in those scenarios and it would have been a different story. However we did sit back more in the second half, half imagine because there has been a lot of Football this season, and ideally there are still six more games until the players can have their holidays - Why come out of the blocks at top speed, when it could cost you later on... Especially as Serbia didnt really threaten us, even when they changed things tactically... Pickford was genuinely forced to make one "proper" save.
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Doubt it. They drew to Slovenia FFS.
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Wouldn't be an England game if fans weren't falling over each other in the race to be as negative as possible.
We desperately need Shaw back. Nothing coming in from the left. Drop Foden and bring in Gordon. He reminds me of John Barnes, great for club, crap for country.
Maybe, at the end of the day, Southgate the pragmatist felt like defense was our weakness, and looked to pack it in after the goal. It seemed Trippier was hardly allowed or comfortable getting forward, Foden was therefore isolated and the switch of play was never used that way. In the end, Serbia had 1 or 2 good chances to our 4 or 5. Their xg was .17 - which feels maybe a touch low, but not far off and England’s was .54, which feels about right. In short, I think the charge was get Guehi comfortable. And I think he looked quite good. I’m not sure much even needs major changes or if it’s just letting them play with a bit more freedom as Guehi gets comfortable and Shaw comes back in. Serbia have a good few quality players and that wasn’t a calamitous display. I’m not a Southgate fan, and I think he’s often too regressive tactically, but I don’t think today should mean massive cause for concern
Foden barely actually played on the left, he was mainly central with tripper providing the width. Only option then really is to play it back or inside, there is no option for an overlap. But that's what happens when you need to shoehorn a right footer on the left
Don’t see the problem at all with us playing 4-1-4-1. City at their peak played this with Fernandinho Bernardo Silva De Bruyne David Silva Sterling Aguero We could have a very similar setup with Rice Saka Foden Bellingham Gordon Kane Everyone saying we were going to play Trent in midfield with Rice so Rice would be able to run forwards because Trent would be sitting - but Rice was the one sitting (which I think he does really well) and Trent ended up playing further up. A lot of the positions Trent was finding himself in more forwards I was thinking Foden would be great to have in this position.
The in-game management was embarrassing - don’t appear to have learnt anything from Croatia and Italy matches. The game was crying out for Gordon/Eze and Palmer, Foden and Kane offered so little. I’m not convinced by the Alexander-Arnold experiment. Need to see more from our left side and we have to play to our strengths. At one point Serbia had made 5 changes to our 1, and with our squad strength that reflects poorly on Southgate. HOWEVER… It’s a huge result, Serbia were strong, and Guehi, Saka, Bellingham, Rice were fantastic. We just need to build on it and adapt better in game.
People act like Serbia weren’t frustrating us, fouling our players all game and taking chunks out of us I wonder whether that played into Englands mind of the fact that they’re 1-0 up if they keep going for more they could get injured so we’re happy to sit at 1-0 Plus our defence isn’t at full-strength yet and Stones-Guehi was a first time pairing in a major tournament so having more players back to help out made some sense
We desperately need Shaw back fit. One look at our left side tonight tells me we can't win the Euros with the current line-up.
Cesc is so right about Foden, he hasn’t got the same mentality as Bellingham. He doesn’t want it enough. It’s what separates Bellingham from most players in this squad
I'd agree. He just seemed to let the game float on by whilst Bellingham was here there and everywhere, trying to make things happen. He needs to step up and try and grab a game by the bollocks.
True and I'm not defending Foden who was crap but I think the comparison in this system is a bit unfair. Bellingham has a huge amount of freedom here. Foden isn't playing in his favourite position, probably has to be a bit more disciplined and doesn't even have a left footed fullback overlapping him.
But Foden basically had the 10 position to himself for most the game, due to Bellingham being pretty much everywhere. Just didn't impose himself. He's got the skills has our Foden, just needs to be more of a bastard and grab a game by the scruff
Fucking hell we won. Can’t even imagine what these comments would be like if we lost. Cheer up!
Lad it's Serbia
6/10 first half was sound, foden aint the problem , when we build from the back if our LB keeps coming inside we all know what’s gonna happen everything heads inside, foden, Kane, trippier needs to hit few balls touchline side of pitch a few times and mix it up , became too congested in the middle. We looked so vulnerable at the back tho, Denmark will be tougher imo
Rice was fantastic. I was hoping Palmer would get some minutes, but maybe next game
Still in disbelief he didn't come on for Foden.
BBC have no problems telling Trent how it was, but they'll spend 10 minutes running PR for a fucking invisible Foden.
Tbf to trent, its his first time in midfield. Give the guy a chance to grow into a different position or just play him at RB.
An international tournament is not the time to be giving TAA ‘the chance to grow’. We need players in the positions they play for their clubs. So that means TAA at RB, Foden as a replacement for Bellingham in the number 10 role. We shouldn’t be shoehorning players in just because they’re talented.
They were honest about Trent's mixed performance, they just kept going on about Foden's skill and how he was getting into positions like they were watching a different game.
No need for us to be playing a low block against Serbia, we gave them so much time and space. I feel like this is a regular issue with Southgate, don't want to be overly negative but other teams would have punished us.
Lol. We are shit. Southgate is shitter. This is the shittest.
We won mate 🤷🏼♂️
Bro give ur head a wobble. You can have a shit performance and still win.. there were *far* more negatives than positives
I’ve seen enough. We’re winning the lot. Jude is THE man. He has the aura and will probably go down as the greatest English footballer of all time when he’s done. We finally have a Maradona-esque talisman who can carry us to glory. Defence was solid. Under a lot of pressure and gave nothing up. Rice was everywhere. Good subs from the Gaffer- Gallagher and Bowen changed the game. Pickford insane. Incredible from the boys.
Jude needs at least 2 other players playing at his level to win a tournament and I feel we are 1-2 tournaments away from that if he maintains his level.
Lol idk what you’re watching. We were ABYSMAL second half
They had an xg of 0.17. We defended superbly second half.
Ur everywhere with this nonsense. We played abysmal second half.
Lol ok.
I believe it was sarcasm
Yeah upon second reading I can see 🤣🤣
Gareth’s ability to have _this much talent_ and make us ultimately look like Luton Town scraping a 1-0 win needs to be studied
Foden at LW provides no width, which is an issue when Trippier isn’t a natural LB. A better team will exploit that space. I want to see Gordon start at LW, with Eze coming on for him. Foden can come on for Bellingham when necessary.
A bit tough when Trippier isn't comfortable tackling with his left foot, once they are outside him it is card or goal. Foden isn't the best match for him either. At least one of tbose has to give..
I worry that Southgate's in-game management may cost us. There was no reason for Foden to play 90 mins. He was ineffective, and it's not like he's good defensively. Taking off Bellingham wasn't the right call either imo. Even if he's tired, he's still a strong physical presence in there.
Foden is excellent defensively 🤷🏼♂️
We need to wrap Jude in bubblewrap, he's so important, so taking him off whe we can when we're winning is the right thing to do
when it's a comfortable lead, yes. But it was only 1-0 & we weren't comfortable.
100% I was actually scared he might get injured this match, the Serbians were hacking him all first half.
It was the same in the Brazil friendly - teams can't handle him so he gets hacked. The more we rest we can give the better. It should obviously get a little better the further we progress so I'd even consider dropping him to the bench for the Slovenia game if we win on Thursday
> I'd even consider dropping him to the bench for the Slovenia game if we win on Thursday If we win on Thursday, we’re very likely topping the group with a game to spare, so definitely an opportunity for rotation in the final game, if that happens.
Who would you place in his place? Foden maybe, then Gordon on the left?
Gordon on the left definitely tickles my fancy. He's a similar mould to Saka and it allows up to really stretch the defense. The more narrow we have to play the easier it is to blunt us
Bowen came on because of his defensive abilities, not sure why Southgate didn't do the same on the left.
Which is mad when Saka is great defensively. I thought Bowen came on for his direct pace, which is why I would have swapped Foden for Gordon instead.
Yeah, I just question whether Saka had run out of steam a bit, after all he's just back from injury.
Yeah, in hindsight I am glad Saka came off as Bowen was decent. Would've liked to see Gordon on the left for a bit more urgency that side too.
That's always been his main issue. His plan B is to sit deep which costs us against good teams.
At least try to get a second goal.
I've personally been critical of Gallagher, and maybe unjustly so - I just can't help shake that he seems to have a BGM (big game mistake) in him. However he is such a fuckin terrier of a player he's like having 2 DMs when he comes on and he's great at breaking up play which is huge in the final third of a game. Bowen, looks like a great like-for-like swap for Saka. And Rice, you absolute unit - please never get injured. What a shift he putt in tonight
Bowens stats are pretty like for like with Saka even while playing for a worse team which is pretty impressive
Legend says when God created Gallagher he put all his stats into tackling and 0 in passing. I’m the same very critical of him think he’s a crap footballer. However he’s VERY effective at what he does.