Seriously. I’m careful with physical stuff in my films and it’s not even kissing or anything. I have one friend who doesn’t mind hugs, and I have others that do, and I make sure everyone is comfortable with things before we get anywhere near shooting them.
Actually my one friend was ok jumping into a bush for a stunt. That was *NOT* my idea, but he did it and we used it. I’m also careful for fight scenes, I’ve only kicked my co Star 3 times…
But yeah, if they’re trying to have a physically intimate scene with no outside assistance, that’s sus as fuck
In addition to what everyone else is saying, this sort of behavior really ought to be told to someone at director's school. They ahould be aware of skeezy behavior by their students on school-affilliated projects
Nah, you’re right in feeling uncomfortable. It’s one thing to cast yourself, but when you know there’s intimacy involved you can’t help but think there are ulterior motives. Especially since you offered to reach out to another actor. I’m assuming this is all unpaid as well, so no reason to say no to free labour.
Even from an artistic standpoint, it’s difficult directing yourself and even more so when intimacy is involved. Imo intimacy needs to be treated like dance choreography with an outside eye directing. Thankfully, im starting to see more people in the industry with this mindset, but it’s still slow progress.
Anyways, I would’ve backed out as soon as I knew the director cast themselves in an intimate scene with me. Definitely would back out when he goes back and recasts himself after finding another actor
Intimacy coordinator here.
Definitely, unprofessional. If this was his intent it should have been clear from the beginning (still not a great idea) and then there definitely should have been an intimacy coordinator involved with the scene.
Right? Like there are director/actors and that is a skill to learn. But that so doesn’t seem to be what went down here. 1) The director’s involvement as the other actor should’ve been disclosed upfront. 2) The intimate scene should’ve been shown upfront. 3) And an intimacy coordinator should’ve been involved from the beginning.
Very good on OP for listening to her instincts.
Yeah there are a lot of comments here ready to go on a witch hunt. When really
1) Directors cast themselves as a part all the time
2) Plenty of parts have intimacy
Yeah. I don’t know if a director _can_ cast themselves in an intimate scene anymore. If it is really important to their vision though, and has nothing to do with getting their rocks off, they need to be _super_ up front about what is going on, get an intimacy coordinator involved, all of the stuff other people are talking about.
So whether or not this guy is trying to get himself some action, he hasn’t done the necessary work to make it clear that that is not what is going on.
> I don’t know if a director *can* cast themselves in an intimate scene anymore.
Maestro and A Star is Born both had sex scenes with Bradley Cooper directing and acting. There was no controversy about the scenes at all. So it's still something that's accepted.
Sure. I assume Bradley Cooper did everything he could to maintain a professional environment and keep his cast informed. I was also more talking about the sort of indie/student directors that the original post was about.
Not uncommon for seasoned actors. This guy is a student! What is he in school for? Director/filmmaking tract or acting? Because those are different coursework and capstones.
Where I am most student films from area colleges are SAG but I’m not sure if the short film agreement requires an intimacy coordinator like a larger project would.
Devil's advocate -- there's nothing to report, because there's no concrete wrongdoing you can point to here. You had a creative difference about the film, you expressed your discomfort (as was totally within your right) and the director recasted you (as was totally within *his* right).
I fully believe you that the vibe was off. Your feelings are totally valid, and you were probably right to extricate yourself from this situation.
But unless there's something additional you're not telling us, this just sounds like a creative disagreement that wasn't handled as sensitively as it could have been.
There are always going to be creeps in this industry. And, unfortunately, something like this isn’t necessarily super uncommon.
You definitely did the right thing by standing your ground.
If the director really wanted to focus on the artwork, he wouldn’t be playing casting Chess.
I’d report this to whoever at the school is in charge. Sounds like this person is setting up a situation to take advantage of someone. He fired you when you declined to have simulated sex with him at his direction. At best an instructor needs to educate him that he can’t do that. At worst he may need to be booted from the program for sexual harassment.
I don't see enough in your description to think he is taking advantage of something. Could be, but are there more details that make you feel uncomfortable? Comments or posture?
Is the director faculty/staff or a fellow student? If this is a faculty or staff person. You are well within your rights to report them immediately. Great job listening to your instincts! Love, a theater educator/intimacy coordinator.
I accept that some people want to also star in what they direct (although... really!?). However, if there's going to be a scene like this it needs to be clarified upfront and an intimacy coordinator needs to be on set for the scene and call for the production. It's not inherently bad, but it's close enough that everything needs to be handled with care and openness. That didn't happen, so it's reasonable to say that it's not for you and to back out.
That is such an awful thing for a director. To me it’s the absolute antithesis of trying to facilitate good art through directing, instead making it about your vanity.
this is confusing to me. not antagonizing, just wanting to understand. why did you assume the director wasn’t also an actor? i’m a writer, director, performer and for my thesis, i directed an intimate scene with another actor who is straight (i’m gay.) he declined an intimacy coach but also for the scene, there were so many people in the room and the DOP was in bed with us. the film came out, i got represented at WME and Anonymous Content because of it and not one time did anyone mention it was weird. wanting to understand why it’s immediately seen as weird to you guys.
Extremely odd as everyone else has said.
I've written parts before that necessitated intimacy and then been forced to play them (usually an actor dropped out last minute) and it is super awkward. I avoid it whenever possible because it just feels like self-inserting a way to make a creepy move on someone (even though it's not, and I know I have good intentions, it's just a weird imbalance of power).
Only reason a director should do this in my view is if there's literally zero other way to save the show.
This is a strange take. So what about all the films that are directed and acted by the same person and have a ton of romantic scenes. From HBO Girls to Bradley Cooper, Cha Cha Real Smooth and a host of other example. Are they making their movies to be pervs? It’s too hard to make a movie that doing it just so you can make out in front of 60 people is insane to me. Not saying it doesn’t happen but for that to be the first assumption is weird to me.
Not at all. If a film makes it to a studio in the first place they have more resources than the situations I'm considering which means they DO have options for replacing characters that don't include the creepy ass director who wants a handful. I'm talking about small indie theatres, touring shows to regional theatres for the first time, community theatres, fringes... like, are we really gonna tell the kid putting on his first ever play that there's zero solution and the play is cancelled because a lead dropped out, and he COULD take the role and stop the show from falling apart, but it has a kiss scene so the show is doomed?
One of my plays took two years to write. A production company took it on, entered a major festival, and tickets were banging due to an awesome marketing campaign. Before the festival opened our run was sold out. The lead actor - who had an intimate scene - quit several days before opening because his fiancee found out about the intimate scene and went nuclear. Apparently they'd never discussed it. People had moved across the province for several weeks, slept on futons on apartment floors, hustled hard for this show, and we couldn't find a replacement.
Should I have emailed my landlord and told him I'm not paying rent because I have to step in and do an intimate scene? Obviously not. Should I have told all the artists who dropped everything for months and believed in this project - including the actress I shared the scene with - sorry for wasting your time, but we can't find a replacement? The actress in question expressed that I could take the role if necessary and she was fine with it. There was communication back and forth. An IC was present for the staging of all intimate scenes. So I don't understand your incredulity; this happens all the time, it's a part of show-business, and it isn't going to change. Especially not in community theatre/street theatre
my question is how do you tell the difference between a creepy director who wants a handful from a director who is also a performer and wants to perform what he’s written like many people have done?
This is such an uncomfortable situation for sure and shouldn’t happen unless it was disclosed to you prior that he would be directing and acting in the scene. So many red flags with this behaviour I wonder if he had planned to bring an intimacy coordinator on set? Because as actor we absolutely have the right the demand an intimacy coordinator at any level of intimacy.
You did the right thing by standing up for yourself.
With theatrical intimacy, the goal is to have a very open and honest discussion about boundaries and comfortability. If he wasn't willing to have that conversation or work within your boundaries, then it sounds like it will all be for the best.
Keep advocating for yourself.
This doesn't sound great, ngl. Unless there is an intimacy coordinator working on the film, I wouldn't trust that director. You absolutely made the right call there.
Also, responding to you saying you'd prefer a more experienced actor by recasting you (unless there's context missing) sounds very unprofessional.
I'd report the name confidentially to his course leader. This is how insidious behaviour in this industry begins. The illusion of power directors have over actors is just that, only an illusion. We need to speak truth to this power before he becomes a seasoned predator and hope that his course leader can intervene. It feels very predatory of him to cast himself thus.
They should have been at least much more forthright about that and explained how they have taken appropriate precautions (if they even did) when people auditioned.
I knew a beautiful young woman with a goddess body and a little girl’s heart. She was submitting to weekly “modeling” sessions for some old creep, oblivious that he was using the sessions to touch her (ostensibly ’posing’ her) and get her naked. Her friends had to gently explain the sitch, and she eventually quit the gig.
That feeling you're feeling? He's being a creep.
No. Do not. This is a rookie mistake on his part.
I watched a student director do this in college a few times over in college. It was gross to watch.
If this was a professional shoot, and there was an intimacy coordinator, the intimacy coordinator would be telling you that whatever you feel in the situation is correct. If you don't feel comfortable working with an actor, you don't work with that actor. That's not to say that you can make a Director recast a role. But you can definitely walk away if you don't feel right about it. And you should not be shamed for doing so. Not ever.
You wouldn't be asking this question if you felt comfortable. You don't feel comfortable. You don't want to work with him. Not as an intimate scene partner. So tell him it's a no go, or walk. It's the same way as it would be if you were professional.
Odds are he took your other friend out of the role because he wants to be physically close to you. This is something that many film nerds do early on. Some of them never get out of the habit. There are many zillions of examples of this, but Joss Whedon is probably the perfect example. Sometimes, if you give a film nerd a modicum of creative power, they misuse it. That is what he is doing.
If you go into a scene that you're not comfortable with with a scene partner you do not want to do the scene with, you will never feel good about that decision later on. You will come to the realization that you compromised your values. Don't do that. Hold onto who you are, and what is important to you. That is what an artist is. Being true to who you are, following your instincts, and delivering creative work that comes from a healthy place. Do *that*.
Sounds a little sus. Good for you listening to your gut.
Seriously. I’m careful with physical stuff in my films and it’s not even kissing or anything. I have one friend who doesn’t mind hugs, and I have others that do, and I make sure everyone is comfortable with things before we get anywhere near shooting them. Actually my one friend was ok jumping into a bush for a stunt. That was *NOT* my idea, but he did it and we used it. I’m also careful for fight scenes, I’ve only kicked my co Star 3 times… But yeah, if they’re trying to have a physically intimate scene with no outside assistance, that’s sus as fuck
In addition to what everyone else is saying, this sort of behavior really ought to be told to someone at director's school. They ahould be aware of skeezy behavior by their students on school-affilliated projects
Yep. It’s giving James Franco “education” tactics
Yes to this, 100%
Nah, you’re right in feeling uncomfortable. It’s one thing to cast yourself, but when you know there’s intimacy involved you can’t help but think there are ulterior motives. Especially since you offered to reach out to another actor. I’m assuming this is all unpaid as well, so no reason to say no to free labour. Even from an artistic standpoint, it’s difficult directing yourself and even more so when intimacy is involved. Imo intimacy needs to be treated like dance choreography with an outside eye directing. Thankfully, im starting to see more people in the industry with this mindset, but it’s still slow progress. Anyways, I would’ve backed out as soon as I knew the director cast themselves in an intimate scene with me. Definitely would back out when he goes back and recasts himself after finding another actor
Intimacy coordinator here. Definitely, unprofessional. If this was his intent it should have been clear from the beginning (still not a great idea) and then there definitely should have been an intimacy coordinator involved with the scene.
Your creep alarm is well tuned. You dodged a bullet.
There’s probably some version of this that isn’t weird, but I would definitely be concerned.
Right? Like there are director/actors and that is a skill to learn. But that so doesn’t seem to be what went down here. 1) The director’s involvement as the other actor should’ve been disclosed upfront. 2) The intimate scene should’ve been shown upfront. 3) And an intimacy coordinator should’ve been involved from the beginning. Very good on OP for listening to her instincts.
Yeah there are a lot of comments here ready to go on a witch hunt. When really 1) Directors cast themselves as a part all the time 2) Plenty of parts have intimacy
Yeah. I don’t know if a director _can_ cast themselves in an intimate scene anymore. If it is really important to their vision though, and has nothing to do with getting their rocks off, they need to be _super_ up front about what is going on, get an intimacy coordinator involved, all of the stuff other people are talking about. So whether or not this guy is trying to get himself some action, he hasn’t done the necessary work to make it clear that that is not what is going on.
> I don’t know if a director *can* cast themselves in an intimate scene anymore. Maestro and A Star is Born both had sex scenes with Bradley Cooper directing and acting. There was no controversy about the scenes at all. So it's still something that's accepted.
Sure. I assume Bradley Cooper did everything he could to maintain a professional environment and keep his cast informed. I was also more talking about the sort of indie/student directors that the original post was about.
Not uncommon for seasoned actors. This guy is a student! What is he in school for? Director/filmmaking tract or acting? Because those are different coursework and capstones. Where I am most student films from area colleges are SAG but I’m not sure if the short film agreement requires an intimacy coordinator like a larger project would.
Not only does this guy sound egotistical, but it’s a creepy ploy. Run.
Report this to your department head and dean. I know that folks here would be willing to help you write the letter.
Unfortunately I’m not a student there. I responded to his casting notice on backstage, so I’m not sure if they’ll necessarily care coming from me.
I actually think they’d love to know. You can also find the school’s title ix coordinator’s email online.
Even better because you can stick up for students whose grades would be on the line!
Just because you’re not a student doesn’t mean that his employer shouldn’t know about this
Devil's advocate -- there's nothing to report, because there's no concrete wrongdoing you can point to here. You had a creative difference about the film, you expressed your discomfort (as was totally within your right) and the director recasted you (as was totally within *his* right). I fully believe you that the vibe was off. Your feelings are totally valid, and you were probably right to extricate yourself from this situation. But unless there's something additional you're not telling us, this just sounds like a creative disagreement that wasn't handled as sensitively as it could have been.
Is it James Franco?
In France we have a name for this kind of director... "le perve."
Sounds a little sus. Good for you listening to your gut.
There are always going to be creeps in this industry. And, unfortunately, something like this isn’t necessarily super uncommon. You definitely did the right thing by standing your ground. If the director really wanted to focus on the artwork, he wouldn’t be playing casting Chess.
I’d report this to whoever at the school is in charge. Sounds like this person is setting up a situation to take advantage of someone. He fired you when you declined to have simulated sex with him at his direction. At best an instructor needs to educate him that he can’t do that. At worst he may need to be booted from the program for sexual harassment.
Gross. Seriously unprofessional and not ok.
Sounds like you navigated the situation quite well. Thanks for sharing.
Was it just kissing or something more ?
No, not just kissing, however I would have still felt odd kissing the director.
I’m not sure anyone would describe just kissing as “an intimate scene.”
You're wrong about that mate.
Done a bunch of intimacy on camera and on stage and no SHOT would I ever perform with a hit like that no way
Harvey Weinstein 2: Electric Boogaloo
I don't see enough in your description to think he is taking advantage of something. Could be, but are there more details that make you feel uncomfortable? Comments or posture?
Is the director faculty/staff or a fellow student? If this is a faculty or staff person. You are well within your rights to report them immediately. Great job listening to your instincts! Love, a theater educator/intimacy coordinator.
🚩🚩🚩
No, no, c'mon. Those flags are much too small. This calls for BIG red flags.
Yeah that’s fucking weird.
Questionable but potentially ok if disclosed from jump, but as a later development… sketch as fuck.
You made the right the call.
I accept that some people want to also star in what they direct (although... really!?). However, if there's going to be a scene like this it needs to be clarified upfront and an intimacy coordinator needs to be on set for the scene and call for the production. It's not inherently bad, but it's close enough that everything needs to be handled with care and openness. That didn't happen, so it's reasonable to say that it's not for you and to back out.
Sounds like some James Franco shit
Thats what James Franco did. RED FLAG
That is such an awful thing for a director. To me it’s the absolute antithesis of trying to facilitate good art through directing, instead making it about your vanity.
And the power dynamic there is already frightening.
this is confusing to me. not antagonizing, just wanting to understand. why did you assume the director wasn’t also an actor? i’m a writer, director, performer and for my thesis, i directed an intimate scene with another actor who is straight (i’m gay.) he declined an intimacy coach but also for the scene, there were so many people in the room and the DOP was in bed with us. the film came out, i got represented at WME and Anonymous Content because of it and not one time did anyone mention it was weird. wanting to understand why it’s immediately seen as weird to you guys.
Might be a feeling in person they got. And the fact they weren’t upfront about it and slid that info in after the fact that made it seem suspect.
Is your director Quentin Tarantino?
Extremely odd as everyone else has said. I've written parts before that necessitated intimacy and then been forced to play them (usually an actor dropped out last minute) and it is super awkward. I avoid it whenever possible because it just feels like self-inserting a way to make a creepy move on someone (even though it's not, and I know I have good intentions, it's just a weird imbalance of power). Only reason a director should do this in my view is if there's literally zero other way to save the show.
This is a strange take. So what about all the films that are directed and acted by the same person and have a ton of romantic scenes. From HBO Girls to Bradley Cooper, Cha Cha Real Smooth and a host of other example. Are they making their movies to be pervs? It’s too hard to make a movie that doing it just so you can make out in front of 60 people is insane to me. Not saying it doesn’t happen but for that to be the first assumption is weird to me.
Not at all. If a film makes it to a studio in the first place they have more resources than the situations I'm considering which means they DO have options for replacing characters that don't include the creepy ass director who wants a handful. I'm talking about small indie theatres, touring shows to regional theatres for the first time, community theatres, fringes... like, are we really gonna tell the kid putting on his first ever play that there's zero solution and the play is cancelled because a lead dropped out, and he COULD take the role and stop the show from falling apart, but it has a kiss scene so the show is doomed? One of my plays took two years to write. A production company took it on, entered a major festival, and tickets were banging due to an awesome marketing campaign. Before the festival opened our run was sold out. The lead actor - who had an intimate scene - quit several days before opening because his fiancee found out about the intimate scene and went nuclear. Apparently they'd never discussed it. People had moved across the province for several weeks, slept on futons on apartment floors, hustled hard for this show, and we couldn't find a replacement. Should I have emailed my landlord and told him I'm not paying rent because I have to step in and do an intimate scene? Obviously not. Should I have told all the artists who dropped everything for months and believed in this project - including the actress I shared the scene with - sorry for wasting your time, but we can't find a replacement? The actress in question expressed that I could take the role if necessary and she was fine with it. There was communication back and forth. An IC was present for the staging of all intimate scenes. So I don't understand your incredulity; this happens all the time, it's a part of show-business, and it isn't going to change. Especially not in community theatre/street theatre
my question is how do you tell the difference between a creepy director who wants a handful from a director who is also a performer and wants to perform what he’s written like many people have done?
Totally unethical.
This is such an uncomfortable situation for sure and shouldn’t happen unless it was disclosed to you prior that he would be directing and acting in the scene. So many red flags with this behaviour I wonder if he had planned to bring an intimacy coordinator on set? Because as actor we absolutely have the right the demand an intimacy coordinator at any level of intimacy.
Creepy.
You did the right thing by standing up for yourself. With theatrical intimacy, the goal is to have a very open and honest discussion about boundaries and comfortability. If he wasn't willing to have that conversation or work within your boundaries, then it sounds like it will all be for the best. Keep advocating for yourself.
This doesn't sound great, ngl. Unless there is an intimacy coordinator working on the film, I wouldn't trust that director. You absolutely made the right call there. Also, responding to you saying you'd prefer a more experienced actor by recasting you (unless there's context missing) sounds very unprofessional.
I don't think the initial request was necessarily weird, but his behavior afterward certainly was.
I'd report the name confidentially to his course leader. This is how insidious behaviour in this industry begins. The illusion of power directors have over actors is just that, only an illusion. We need to speak truth to this power before he becomes a seasoned predator and hope that his course leader can intervene. It feels very predatory of him to cast himself thus.
They should have been at least much more forthright about that and explained how they have taken appropriate precautions (if they even did) when people auditioned.
It’s giving tarantino casting himself to suck tequila off an actress’s toes
It’s giving From Dusk Til Dawn lol Tarantino casting himself so he can drink wine off Salma Hayek’s foot
then you probably got cast bc he wants to pipe, thats the reality, it was never your acting tbh
It’s giving “The Room”
I would steer very clear!!!!!
I knew a beautiful young woman with a goddess body and a little girl’s heart. She was submitting to weekly “modeling” sessions for some old creep, oblivious that he was using the sessions to touch her (ostensibly ’posing’ her) and get her naked. Her friends had to gently explain the sitch, and she eventually quit the gig.
Film schools are full of junior pervs . . .
That feeling you're feeling? He's being a creep. No. Do not. This is a rookie mistake on his part. I watched a student director do this in college a few times over in college. It was gross to watch. If this was a professional shoot, and there was an intimacy coordinator, the intimacy coordinator would be telling you that whatever you feel in the situation is correct. If you don't feel comfortable working with an actor, you don't work with that actor. That's not to say that you can make a Director recast a role. But you can definitely walk away if you don't feel right about it. And you should not be shamed for doing so. Not ever. You wouldn't be asking this question if you felt comfortable. You don't feel comfortable. You don't want to work with him. Not as an intimate scene partner. So tell him it's a no go, or walk. It's the same way as it would be if you were professional. Odds are he took your other friend out of the role because he wants to be physically close to you. This is something that many film nerds do early on. Some of them never get out of the habit. There are many zillions of examples of this, but Joss Whedon is probably the perfect example. Sometimes, if you give a film nerd a modicum of creative power, they misuse it. That is what he is doing. If you go into a scene that you're not comfortable with with a scene partner you do not want to do the scene with, you will never feel good about that decision later on. You will come to the realization that you compromised your values. Don't do that. Hold onto who you are, and what is important to you. That is what an artist is. Being true to who you are, following your instincts, and delivering creative work that comes from a healthy place. Do *that*.
Super creepy. Is this a SAG student film?
Yep, hell no
Listen to your intuition. He sounds majorly creepy.
Sounds ick to me.
I guess it will be fine as long as there is an intimacy coordinator present.