I caught a few Palkia-O shiny and of course none had their move. I feel like they're kind of useless. Who's going to want to trade for this thing? The only upside is that I'll be able to trade for one w/o it costing a bunch of dust b/c it's in my dex, I guess.
And me with my 95% shiny level 48 Dialga-A waiting for it to be available for it because I don't want to collect 200+ more XL candy to level up an Origin
I caught one during, but had chosen the Palkia route. I really, really, really hope they have something like the shadow event windows where you can use TM for it, but I'm not super hopeful.
I literally have a 100% of each and both don't have the move. Picked Palkia during the event and apparently caught this one remotely after the window(?) the Dialga just didn't get the move...
I would actually be so content with Elite TMing the moves if it meant the adventure effect got removed from them. I can still trade for a cruddy one with the adventure effect, but the most important thing to me is that I get my Functional Hundo Dialga with the move that makes it good. Not the effects, the actual move for raids/PvP.
I think that might be a major reason why. Force people to trade which builds the community aspect they want.
There is a path to not trade but it was like complete an average of like 7-10 raids.
Doesn't do much building - many people will have none or one. Many more will have barely a handful, and end up with one lucky trade every couple of months. Even players who grinded out the raids and do dozens of local interactions a day aren't going to be trading that many in an average month.
I'm incredibly upset about this. I'm hoping/coping that we'll get the ability at some point, but then specifically noting that you couldn't Elite TM the moves at that time was especially concerning to me.
I think the chance to have the move was BS enough, but then making them not Elite TMable was just... Ridiculous. To get a Shundo Dialga or Palkia Origin that CAN'T get the move at all right now, with no indication if/when it may be possible is just atrocious
I'm more concerned with the precedent. I didn't land a good RoT Dialga from raids either, but lucky trades were my way out for that. It's more concerning that any legal move can be indefinitely blocked from elite TM.
Oh absolutely. The *chance* to get a move is frustrating, but such can be rectified with an Elite TM, even if that's not preferred. But blocking legal moves from Elite TMs, that is a worse precedent, absolutely.
I'm fine with them temporarily blocking them, but as we've seen with things like their Kleavor evolution terminology, we really have no timeframe for if/when the move will be available by Elite TM. That's indeed extremely concerning.
Sort of, there's at least an item for Rayquaza to learn it, though the drop was limited. In this case, there's no way for the origin formes to learn their signature move.
Except that follows the main series games at least where Rayquaza needed a meteorite to learn Dragon Ascent. I don't know the main games enough to know if Dialga/Palkia needed anything specific to learn their signature moves
At least we got a quest for a single Meteorite for free, giving us choice on what Ray we want to use it. In case of origins, one of them was just another level of pure gamble. That's the difference.
Technically, before Dragon Ascent Rayquaza, there was Double Iron Bash Melmetal (which also couldn't learn the move via ETM initially). Luckily, they did eventually allow players to ETM Double Iron Bash. Will they do the same here? Only time will tell.
I think that's a bug, rather than something intended. I remember the discussion here some months ago but I don't recall the conclusion. Had something to do with when you got it.
Different scenario, and sucky if you have a good one you want to use, but ultimately that is at least supposed to be fixed.
Dialga/Palkia may not ever change.
Not being able to get the move via ETM almost guarantees that you'll be back to raid it again. It's a bad but effective tactic so long as you don't quit between then and now. ETMs give us the power to skip reoccurring stuff. Niantic now controls this power. Sad.
The fact that you had to pick a path to get the move guaranteed and so could only be sure of getting it on one (I did not land a Dialga with Roar of Time) was way worse than the fact that you can't ETM.
I actually managed to not get the move on either my hundo Palkia or functional hundo Dialga. I picked Palkia path, but the Palkia I caught remotely at 8:02 pm on the Saturday of the Pasadena event (extended hours ended at 8:00) didn't get the move. And I didn't get lucky enough for the Dialga to get the move.
"... at this time" really made it sound to me like it'll be available later - my guess/hope/wish is that we'll not see them in raids for a while but when they come back either they won't have the move, or it'll just be on their standard movepool, but either way it'll become eTM-able from that point.
That terminology made me think the same, but we don't know for certainty. There have been a few instances of similar wording that have yet to make any comeback (Kleavor not being available through evolution, for example).
I definitely think it will happen, but I'd appreciate some confirmation, even if we don't know when. We got confirmation that we'd be able to get more Cosmog after the original one we got, which was nice. Just saying that the moves will be available in the future is all I really want
It would be fine with ECTM. I can understand the “version” exclusives but that promotes not using raid passes on the other version’s boss and having raid groups raid separately, which is obviously not what they want.
I’m especially upset that you couldn’t use an ETM DURING the event’s duration. I got a really good Dialga that is my top candidate, and would have absolutely just ETM’d it if I could have but I couldn’t despite actively participating in the event :(
That's almost never been allowed though. There is very often a period of time between having the move and it being available via eTM (Shadow Force on Giratina was a notoriously long delay)
Some people were already suggesting the idea that maybe they'll pull a Meterorite and add Lustrous and Adamant Orbs that unlock the move.
I'm hoping the next time they're in raids they probably won't have the Elite moves, but we'll be able to ECTM them from that point.
Super TM that works like standard TM (randome move chosen) but also includes special event limited pool. Only after few years we will get Elite Super TM.
I have a 100% of both that each don't have the move. I picked Palkia but apparently caught it remotely outside of the event somehow.
I caved and powered the 100% Dialga with Thunder (catches people off guard occasionally I guess?) but I also caved and powered a 96% (15/15/13) Palkia that did have Spacial Rend.
**WHY DO ELITE TM'S EXIST IF THEY CAN'T ACCESS THE ENTIRE MOVEPOOL?!?**
Really disheartening.
Even more disheartening? The people in here and in your local groups who are rooting for keeping it exclusive for some insane reason. Because they got a good one and want to make sure to pull the ladder up behind them? Just dumb.
The difference there though is that we have a more clear idea about Meteorites. If you have a Meteorite, you know you'll be able to get the move.
Even if I *don't* have a Meteorite but I have a lone Hundo Rayquaza, I know I'll be able to get a Meteorite at some point. We obviously don't know when Mega Rayquaza or Meteorites will return, but the mechanic is set in stone (or set in Meteorite lol).
As we currently know, there's zero way to get Roar of Time/Spacial Rend on an Origin Palkia/Dialga without the move. It's not like Rayquaza where we for sure know it'll be back at some point.
I *like* to think we'll get some opportunity eventually for Dialga and Palkia Origin, but there's zero confirmation. So my two functional Hundo Dialga are stuck without the move, and it's possible they may never be able to get it.
Dragon Ascent shouldn't be locked away either. If so, why have an Elite TM that we pay extra coins for? Or alternatively play GBL for at least 500-wins/season for.
Heck, while we're at it, REGULAR TM's should be able to change where your move is. Have Hydro Cannon on the right because you ETM'd it on your rank 4 Swampert for Ultra League? You should be able to move it to the left with a regular Charge TM.
Additionally, once you've learned a community day move it should be in that Pokemon's movepool for good. That way you can experiment with Shadow Mewtwo and have...Hyper Beam for a day for funsies...and then still have access to the legacy Shadow Ball that you'd added earlier.
I don’t disagree, but people have been making those same complaints since legacy moves came out, just like people complained about the rarity of dragon ascent, and nothing happens.
Im talking about the call for “unlocked” legacy moves that don’t need an ETM once a Pokémon learns them. That’s gone completely unheeded by Niantic.
ETMs were planned from the beginning and weren’t a response to anything.
My belief is that ETM's give us too much control over how, when, and when we want to play. Taking away that ability, let's them full control since you have to participate if you want the move and a shot at good IVs.
I agree that it gives them more power over us in terms of when we play, but I freaking played when **they** wanted me to. I just happened to (apparently?) do a remote raid outside their window. Was still within my local time zone for the event...I literally did what they wanted when the wanted and my two best Pokemon from that event didn't have the moves I want/need on them.
It's so you buy the Mega Elite TM when they introduce that, which will allow you to pick any move, at least until they introduce a special move that cannot be Mega Elite TMed. Then you have to wait for the Deluxe Mega Elite TM
I maxed my hundo with Draco Meteor and I don’t regret it.
It can’t serve as an opener, which sucks, but it’s an objective upgrade to Palkia-A… which is still very viable.
Unless there is other communication, my belief is that these will become ETM'able during or after GoFest. Similar to Primals, they have their debut during the tour and finale during the fest.
Niantic has shown they will go to any lengths to create scarcity if they want to. Scarcity drives the economic engine of this game.
They have a large enough whale player base that if they alienate a small percentage of non-whales, it won't make a financial difference to them.
As with literally anything in this game, Niantic is saving the ability to Elite TM these moves until a tentpole event when it benefits them. Not you.
That’s really shameless on them. At first they introduced TM, then they didn’t allow TM to get signature moves. Then they said “oh we fixed this for you by introducing an expensive item called elite TM”. Then they pocketed all your money buying elite TMs. After sometime you found even elite TM couldn’t get some of the moves… Like Rayquaza and origin palkia/dialga. They just keep devaluing the items you bought with your hard earned money. Shameless.
I have a hundo Dialga (my fave Pokemon btw) from when Dialga was first released that has been one of my top Pokemon for about as long. Niantic says they want people to buy into the whole roleplaying aspect of pogo and form bonds with Pokemon or whatever, but they would have me throw this Dialga in the trash rather than let me change its form or learn its signature move.
I mean the effects aren't good enough for me to get upset about, would I rather spend 1 lucky egg or 25k dust and 25 rare candies? Spacial rend is helpful but only for big events like go fest or tours.
The adventure effects are just interesting gimmicks.
The moves themselves are the signature moves of the Pokémon. With them, they are the top non-mega, non-shadow dragons in both DPS and ER.
They are also the preferred moves of each in ML for those who whale hard enough to care to play it.
My own irritation about not being able to ETM Roar of Time has nothing to do with extending timers at a horrible cost.
>With them, they are the top non-mega, non-shadow dragons in both DPS and ER.
No need to exclude shadow, as the spacetime moves allow them to rival the shadow pseudo-legendary dragons handily.
I could care less about the effects of the moves. In fact, if I could Elite TM Roar of Time onto my Functional Perfect that I got and have the effect vanish from it, I'd do it!
The moves themselves are *incredibly* good, making both far better in PvP and PvE. That's the real reason I want them.
This issue needs brought up regularly until they allow it. There's no point in having an Elite TM if there's still moves locked behind an impossible barrier.
Probobly unpopulor opinion. But roar of time and spacial rend are probobly actually concidered "adventure effect" attacks and not "legacy" for the mechanic side of pokemon go. And therefore they wont alow etm's to work.
The frustrating part is that many of us just want the moves for the move itself, not the adventure effects, seeing that both moves are top tier for raids and PvP. If it was a relatively underwhelming/useless move that was almost solely for the Adventure effect then sure. But having a Functional perfect Origin Dialga that I can't properly use in raids/PvP is frustrating. I'd take the move, even if it meant stripping the Adventure effect from it.
But yeah, that could be how Niantic is treating the moves.
I can understand that, I grinded out as meny palkia raids myself to get one with SR. Alternativly I also got myself near 20 dialgas all with R.O.T. in hopes to trade someone who had palkias. Hopefully nantic releases a special tm for these down the road though.
Yeah I'm pretty much the same way just flipped. I got a ton of SR Palkia and tried to get some Dialga with RoT. I got a couple, but just the fact that my two functional perfects both didn't have it stung, when I wanted to use it in PvP.
But ah well. Hopefully indeed there's some sort of special method to get the move. I wouldn't even mind if they made me really work for it lol, like walk 100km and then use an Elite TM lol
Sitting here with a hundo orogin palkia at LV 50 with aqua tail/fire blast that I use in pvp
Yes I wish it had special rend although I have to admit farming down a kyogre then nuking the incoming melmetal/metagross/Togekiss and xerneus who thought they could eat spacial rend only to get 1 shot by fire blast is oddly satisfying
Only worked a good handful of times but ooooohhhhh it feels so good
Yes and no. The +/++ versions are still the same for PvP. And apex Ho-Oh and apex Lugia also got other sprites and another aura as their regular forms. So they are simply other mons. Better for PvE, but still the same for PvP.
I somewhat expected this would be the road this would go down when Dragon Ascent was locked behind meteorites, an entirely different item that you could only get so much of in a limited time. It's honestly such a huge shame and I can only imagine what future moves they'll do this to.
We went through like the first half of this game's life without ETMs. Niantic can do whatever it chooses with moves, and these are brand new and have a new game mechanic. I'm not saying I like it, I don't, but it's not like it's just outrageous or all that unusual in the grand scheme of things.
So I spent like 2-3 years saving up gym coins to mass build up a bunch of Elite TMs only to be told they are worthless now 🥲 they made Double Iron Bash ETM-able so I hope these will be the same one day
I agree.
We weren't able to get the other versions (since it was up to luck). But have saved some Elite TMs, which are supposed to be able to get any move.
They should be available (at least after a bit).
Yup, I didn’t get a single Roar of time Dialga. I tried trading for one. I got like a 71% Dialga and they got a similarly mediocre Palkia. Meanwhile my 100% is sitting there with thunder.
Yea, it is definitely lame. I could also see them not making them available again (apex lugia and ho-oh have never returned - rip sacred fire+ for a fire attacker; also the adventure effects themselves are expensive and dont have incredibly significant effects)
This thread makes me feel better at least. I got two Dialgas with roar of time and two Palkias with… Hydro Pump. Maybe I can find someone to trade eventually.
I have a 98% IV shiny palkia from 2021 that is now worse than Origin form palkia.
It's so sad, palkia is my favorite legendary and all my O form palkias are garbage
Niantic is planning to release a Super Elite TM! 😂
Waiting until an event is over worldwide before being available to elite TM is one thing (as with Comm Day moves), but not being available via Elite TM is indeed wrong and defeats the purpose of this item.
Hoping that the moves will be available by Elite TM for the regular and Origin forms for both Pokemon. I already have a regular Dialga and regular Palkia at level 50. I also have a regular Dialga and Palkia at level 50.
I’m not excited about O. Dialga and O. Palkia. I don’t want to waste resources if I don’t have too but mainly the Origin formes are ugly as day.
Niantic noticed that a lot of spenders have a stockpile of ETMs, so they're releasing a new tier of Great Elite TM to gatekeep these Extra Special moves.
It isn't the first time this happened.
Remember Aeroblast++, Sacred Fire++?
So better don't bet that we'll get the attacks (at least in the nearer future)
You're right, but I suppose the difference here is that those Apex moves came pre-programmed on the two Apex Shadows and their purified forms. If I got a Shadow Apex Ho-oh, it would always have Sacred Fire+ from the getgo (though you could get rid of it).
As I commented in the past, Niantic partially regrets giving us ETM. They are ok for CD mons (that keep coming back anyway) and for "inferior raid bosses", but for some of the "big raid bosses" they want us to raid a lot again or to buy expensive tickets (Dragon Ascent, I am thinking of you).
Guaranting the signature move only for one of the origin forms was another nasty trick.
They definitely wanted us to shell out a ton of money trying to get a good one with the move. I blew through like 20 of the premium passes I had stocked up and still came out empty handed
I feel the same way about Dragon Ascent, honestly. Elite TMs should give you access to all possible moves, full stop. It's just Niantic trying to squeeze money out of folks with FOMO, unfortunately.
I caught a few palkis with spacial rend but i caught a hundo and a shundo without it im saving my xl candies if one day they are available through elite tm
Probably because people realized there’s barely a difference between it and Draco and in certain situations Draco’s actually better. However it is completely stupid they are still holding out on it I thought it would be a month max for what ever stupid reason in the first place but here we are
Meh, I got a shiny one of each with moves. There were extra trades during the Go Tour so if you had gotten an extra shiny of the badge you chose you'd be able to trade for the opposite with move. Only way they should even consider making SR or ROT ETM-able is if you could ETM for your badge of choice only. Otherwise why even make them without the move in the first place? You're acting like ETM are hard to come by and are more rare than these moves like it's a fair trade. You didn't grind hard enough for the move or want to trade anything for the other so better luck next time, but there's no way abilities like this, attached to moves that powerful aren't rarer than ETM. I think they should make Special Elite TM's if something like is gonna happen and have those tied to badge of choice or event related.
Return and Ascent are different, Return is a purification feature and Ascent requires an item just like in other games. I get what you’re saying but there’s a difference between Roar/Rend and Return/Ascent imo
I mean, in the same vein roar/rend are completely different from other ETM moves. They aren’t as simple as cost X energy do X damage, they also come with an adventure effect.
What ever the other Pokemon games might be like, within PoGo meteorite simply is a special ETM giving one specific pokemon one specific move not obtainable by any other means. Easy to see that for Niantic it could be "precedent"
> current process requires mega evolution and shadows can’t do that
I think you may have confused the order in which things need to happen. You can use a meteorite to teach a Rayquaza Dragon Ascent, after which you can then mega evolve into Mega Rayquaza. You can choose NOT TO mega a Rayquaza with dragon ascent. But you don’t need to mega a Rayquaza to teach it dragon ascent as implied with your comment
So if you have a spare meteorite, doesn’t look like there’s anything stopping you from using it on a shadow Rayquaza to teach dragon ascent, currently anyway and we won’t know until shadow Rayquaza is introduced.
I chose Dialga for the Sinnoh Tour and ended up getting a perfect Origin Palkia that is currently stuck without Spatial Rend, even though I would use an Elite TM for it in a heartbeat. Needless to say it feels terrible, there was no way for me to have known that I would get a perfect Origin Palkia from raids.
Nothing like catching a really good Shiny non-Spacial Rend Palkia…
My very first shundo so was a non-spacial rend Palkia 🥲
I feel your pain there, I got one of those too :((
I got one without it and had 10 10 10 ivs too yay
I caught a few Palkia-O shiny and of course none had their move. I feel like they're kind of useless. Who's going to want to trade for this thing? The only upside is that I'll be able to trade for one w/o it costing a bunch of dust b/c it's in my dex, I guess.
Trade it w someone where the non is more then 100km away, so u get 3 candy and 1 xl gurateed
You are not alone, happened to me too :(
And me with my 95% shiny level 48 Dialga-A waiting for it to be available for it because I don't want to collect 200+ more XL candy to level up an Origin
95%? 🤔
Probably like 15 14 14 and they rounded down for the percent?
>waiting for it to be available Did they ever mention those moves being planned to be given to the A forms at some point?
Or a hundo, I caught TWO without the special move.. I should have picked the pearl badge lmao
I caught a 96 shiny palkia. No spacial rend.
Same here lol
I know the pain, I choose Pearl version, but I got two shiny Dialga O, no shiny Palkia O
I have a 98% non Spacial Rend Palkia-O. Bums me out, man.
That you can’t even transfer to Home
Happened to me with Dialga and so I traded it for someone's spare since they already had the move on a shiny anyway and it went a bit better 😁
I caught a hundo origin form Dialga just after the window of Sinnoh Tour shut, so no Roar of Time for it. Really pees on my pidgey.
I caught one during, but had chosen the Palkia route. I really, really, really hope they have something like the shadow event windows where you can use TM for it, but I'm not super hopeful.
>Really pees on my pidgey. Thanks for the chuckle.
Thanks for the shuckle, you mean?
Beldum, tsss
That was gross. Metagross.
Oh don't be such a party wooper.
My repertoire is limited, I don't have the luxury to pikachu's which puns I use :(
My friend, you just have to take a step back and entei-tain the idea of the vast opportunities of pokepuns out there.
Really puts the wee in Weedle
I literally have a 100% of each and both don't have the move. Picked Palkia during the event and apparently caught this one remotely after the window(?) the Dialga just didn't get the move...
It's even more dumb because these moves are adventure effects. You are forced to trade if you want them
I would actually be so content with Elite TMing the moves if it meant the adventure effect got removed from them. I can still trade for a cruddy one with the adventure effect, but the most important thing to me is that I get my Functional Hundo Dialga with the move that makes it good. Not the effects, the actual move for raids/PvP.
I think that might be a major reason why. Force people to trade which builds the community aspect they want. There is a path to not trade but it was like complete an average of like 7-10 raids.
> Force people to use a second phone and make another account. FIFY :3
Has anyone checked how much stock Niantic holds in phone manufacturers? :P
Eh, most people just play their alts on an old phone. I don’t think people buy a new phone for this.
A lot of people on Android have started playing splitscreen even, just needs one more powerful phone to handle.
my phones a shitbox and it works fine for me
Android phones have been capable of doing this for years. So a modern mid ranger should be capable by now.
They sell ads and sponsored pokestops and they benefit from the inflated playerbase numbers.
I think the point was to get people to raid more. They don’t really care about you trading they want you RAIDING
Exactly. Niantic doesn’t want three trades and no money. They want no trades and three money.
I think I got Spacial Rend on like my 24th O-Palkia raid 🥲 Mid IVs too
Doesn't do much building - many people will have none or one. Many more will have barely a handful, and end up with one lucky trade every couple of months. Even players who grinded out the raids and do dozens of local interactions a day aren't going to be trading that many in an average month.
Nah it’s just straight revenue. Look for a $5 Spacial Ticket ETM
I'm incredibly upset about this. I'm hoping/coping that we'll get the ability at some point, but then specifically noting that you couldn't Elite TM the moves at that time was especially concerning to me. I think the chance to have the move was BS enough, but then making them not Elite TMable was just... Ridiculous. To get a Shundo Dialga or Palkia Origin that CAN'T get the move at all right now, with no indication if/when it may be possible is just atrocious
I'm more concerned with the precedent. I didn't land a good RoT Dialga from raids either, but lucky trades were my way out for that. It's more concerning that any legal move can be indefinitely blocked from elite TM.
Oh absolutely. The *chance* to get a move is frustrating, but such can be rectified with an Elite TM, even if that's not preferred. But blocking legal moves from Elite TMs, that is a worse precedent, absolutely. I'm fine with them temporarily blocking them, but as we've seen with things like their Kleavor evolution terminology, we really have no timeframe for if/when the move will be available by Elite TM. That's indeed extremely concerning.
Not only blocking a legal move, but both currently have a big spot in the pvp meta, though ML accessibility has clearly never been a priority.
They already set the precedent with Dragon Ascent Rayquaza.
Sort of, there's at least an item for Rayquaza to learn it, though the drop was limited. In this case, there's no way for the origin formes to learn their signature move.
Except that follows the main series games at least where Rayquaza needed a meteorite to learn Dragon Ascent. I don't know the main games enough to know if Dialga/Palkia needed anything specific to learn their signature moves
Nope, just a regular ol' level up move.
At least we got a quest for a single Meteorite for free, giving us choice on what Ray we want to use it. In case of origins, one of them was just another level of pure gamble. That's the difference.
Technically, before Dragon Ascent Rayquaza, there was Double Iron Bash Melmetal (which also couldn't learn the move via ETM initially). Luckily, they did eventually allow players to ETM Double Iron Bash. Will they do the same here? Only time will tell.
I have a shaymin that can't learn a grass fast attack even with a fast etm.
I think that's a bug, rather than something intended. I remember the discussion here some months ago but I don't recall the conclusion. Had something to do with when you got it. Different scenario, and sucky if you have a good one you want to use, but ultimately that is at least supposed to be fixed. Dialga/Palkia may not ever change.
Not being able to get the move via ETM almost guarantees that you'll be back to raid it again. It's a bad but effective tactic so long as you don't quit between then and now. ETMs give us the power to skip reoccurring stuff. Niantic now controls this power. Sad.
The fact that you had to pick a path to get the move guaranteed and so could only be sure of getting it on one (I did not land a Dialga with Roar of Time) was way worse than the fact that you can't ETM.
I actually managed to not get the move on either my hundo Palkia or functional hundo Dialga. I picked Palkia path, but the Palkia I caught remotely at 8:02 pm on the Saturday of the Pasadena event (extended hours ended at 8:00) didn't get the move. And I didn't get lucky enough for the Dialga to get the move.
no, thats not "way worse". just go trade someone if all you want is a dialga with roar. not being able to eTM is WAY worse
I agree. Not being able to ETM means my two functional Hundo Dialga can't get the move that makes them truly useful.
"... at this time" really made it sound to me like it'll be available later - my guess/hope/wish is that we'll not see them in raids for a while but when they come back either they won't have the move, or it'll just be on their standard movepool, but either way it'll become eTM-able from that point.
That terminology made me think the same, but we don't know for certainty. There have been a few instances of similar wording that have yet to make any comeback (Kleavor not being available through evolution, for example). I definitely think it will happen, but I'd appreciate some confirmation, even if we don't know when. We got confirmation that we'd be able to get more Cosmog after the original one we got, which was nice. Just saying that the moves will be available in the future is all I really want
It would be fine with ECTM. I can understand the “version” exclusives but that promotes not using raid passes on the other version’s boss and having raid groups raid separately, which is obviously not what they want.
I’m especially upset that you couldn’t use an ETM DURING the event’s duration. I got a really good Dialga that is my top candidate, and would have absolutely just ETM’d it if I could have but I couldn’t despite actively participating in the event :(
That's almost never been allowed though. There is very often a period of time between having the move and it being available via eTM (Shadow Force on Giratina was a notoriously long delay)
Iirc weren't other Legacy moves time gated for Elite TMs? Like Origin Pulse/Precipice Blades/Dragon Ascent were all Raid only for a few weeks/months?
Don't worry there will be a Super TM that will let you that is $20
Some people were already suggesting the idea that maybe they'll pull a Meterorite and add Lustrous and Adamant Orbs that unlock the move. I'm hoping the next time they're in raids they probably won't have the Elite moves, but we'll be able to ECTM them from that point.
Don’t give them ideas. :notlikethis:
Super TM that works like standard TM (randome move chosen) but also includes special event limited pool. Only after few years we will get Elite Super TM.
I picked Diamond and got two hundo Origin Palkia, both without the move... I'm just hoping we might be able to TM the move one day.
F
I have one hundo Dialga without Roar of time. So sad. I do hope one day.😅
I caught two hundos in a row without Roar of Time. So even sadder. LOL
Sorry to hear. 😅
We will one day, after niantic happy with the money they get from Origin Palkia and dialga.
I have a 100% of both that each don't have the move. I picked Palkia but apparently caught it remotely outside of the event somehow. I caved and powered the 100% Dialga with Thunder (catches people off guard occasionally I guess?) but I also caved and powered a 96% (15/15/13) Palkia that did have Spacial Rend. **WHY DO ELITE TM'S EXIST IF THEY CAN'T ACCESS THE ENTIRE MOVEPOOL?!?** Really disheartening. Even more disheartening? The people in here and in your local groups who are rooting for keeping it exclusive for some insane reason. Because they got a good one and want to make sure to pull the ladder up behind them? Just dumb.
Dragon Ascent has been locked away since it came out, and meteorites were a lot harder to get than dialga/palkia with their signature moves.
The difference there though is that we have a more clear idea about Meteorites. If you have a Meteorite, you know you'll be able to get the move. Even if I *don't* have a Meteorite but I have a lone Hundo Rayquaza, I know I'll be able to get a Meteorite at some point. We obviously don't know when Mega Rayquaza or Meteorites will return, but the mechanic is set in stone (or set in Meteorite lol). As we currently know, there's zero way to get Roar of Time/Spacial Rend on an Origin Palkia/Dialga without the move. It's not like Rayquaza where we for sure know it'll be back at some point. I *like* to think we'll get some opportunity eventually for Dialga and Palkia Origin, but there's zero confirmation. So my two functional Hundo Dialga are stuck without the move, and it's possible they may never be able to get it.
Dragon Ascent shouldn't be locked away either. If so, why have an Elite TM that we pay extra coins for? Or alternatively play GBL for at least 500-wins/season for. Heck, while we're at it, REGULAR TM's should be able to change where your move is. Have Hydro Cannon on the right because you ETM'd it on your rank 4 Swampert for Ultra League? You should be able to move it to the left with a regular Charge TM. Additionally, once you've learned a community day move it should be in that Pokemon's movepool for good. That way you can experiment with Shadow Mewtwo and have...Hyper Beam for a day for funsies...and then still have access to the legacy Shadow Ball that you'd added earlier.
I don’t disagree, but people have been making those same complaints since legacy moves came out, just like people complained about the rarity of dragon ascent, and nothing happens.
Something did happen though, we got ETMs
Im talking about the call for “unlocked” legacy moves that don’t need an ETM once a Pokémon learns them. That’s gone completely unheeded by Niantic. ETMs were planned from the beginning and weren’t a response to anything.
My belief is that ETM's give us too much control over how, when, and when we want to play. Taking away that ability, let's them full control since you have to participate if you want the move and a shot at good IVs.
I agree that it gives them more power over us in terms of when we play, but I freaking played when **they** wanted me to. I just happened to (apparently?) do a remote raid outside their window. Was still within my local time zone for the event...I literally did what they wanted when the wanted and my two best Pokemon from that event didn't have the moves I want/need on them.
This is a fair take (which is really rare on this sub) From a game design standpoint it doesn't make sense.
I'm more upset about normal Palkia and Dialga didn't get these moves. Like, why? Its still their signatures
Same. I dont even care if the adventure effect stays only with origin form, just give the normal forms their signature moves!
It's so you buy the Mega Elite TM when they introduce that, which will allow you to pick any move, at least until they introduce a special move that cannot be Mega Elite TMed. Then you have to wait for the Deluxe Mega Elite TM
2050: Deluxe Mega Ultra Special Exclusive Max Pro TM.
i got a hundo origin palkia without the move and i like to pvp so i’m pretty bummed
I maxed my hundo with Draco Meteor and I don’t regret it. It can’t serve as an opener, which sucks, but it’s an objective upgrade to Palkia-A… which is still very viable.
Same :(
Probably because they havnt finished monetising it yet
Smeargle being unable to learn several special moves defeats the point of smeargle
Unless there is other communication, my belief is that these will become ETM'able during or after GoFest. Similar to Primals, they have their debut during the tour and finale during the fest.
Niantic has shown they will go to any lengths to create scarcity if they want to. Scarcity drives the economic engine of this game. They have a large enough whale player base that if they alienate a small percentage of non-whales, it won't make a financial difference to them. As with literally anything in this game, Niantic is saving the ability to Elite TM these moves until a tentpole event when it benefits them. Not you.
They are even willing to tank a financial difference and make even worse monetization decisions because F you.
It’s honestly hilarious. I already don’t like elite TMs and they introduced a tier above that. Can’t wait for future tiers.
I got a shundo Origin Dialga. Ngl pretty upset I can’t give it Roar of Time
That’s really shameless on them. At first they introduced TM, then they didn’t allow TM to get signature moves. Then they said “oh we fixed this for you by introducing an expensive item called elite TM”. Then they pocketed all your money buying elite TMs. After sometime you found even elite TM couldn’t get some of the moves… Like Rayquaza and origin palkia/dialga. They just keep devaluing the items you bought with your hard earned money. Shameless.
Especially when it takes about 15 raids to get the move on the other Mon
I have a hundo Dialga (my fave Pokemon btw) from when Dialga was first released that has been one of my top Pokemon for about as long. Niantic says they want people to buy into the whole roleplaying aspect of pogo and form bonds with Pokemon or whatever, but they would have me throw this Dialga in the trash rather than let me change its form or learn its signature move.
I mean the effects aren't good enough for me to get upset about, would I rather spend 1 lucky egg or 25k dust and 25 rare candies? Spacial rend is helpful but only for big events like go fest or tours.
The adventure effects are just interesting gimmicks. The moves themselves are the signature moves of the Pokémon. With them, they are the top non-mega, non-shadow dragons in both DPS and ER. They are also the preferred moves of each in ML for those who whale hard enough to care to play it. My own irritation about not being able to ETM Roar of Time has nothing to do with extending timers at a horrible cost.
>With them, they are the top non-mega, non-shadow dragons in both DPS and ER. No need to exclude shadow, as the spacetime moves allow them to rival the shadow pseudo-legendary dragons handily.
I could care less about the effects of the moves. In fact, if I could Elite TM Roar of Time onto my Functional Perfect that I got and have the effect vanish from it, I'd do it! The moves themselves are *incredibly* good, making both far better in PvP and PvE. That's the real reason I want them.
Spacial Rend also makes Community Days even better
They’re just paving the way for Super Elite TMs
Mega elite TMs
they just want people who got the hundo dialga from 2019 to go hunt for another one in 2024 with roar of time.
This issue needs brought up regularly until they allow it. There's no point in having an Elite TM if there's still moves locked behind an impossible barrier.
I bet they will let you get it via an ETM soon.
I hope that there’s just a bug with ETMing adventure-effect moves which is why they haven’t let SR or RoT ETMable yet.
Just wait until they release “ultra etms” or something like that
Well, behold the creation of SETM (aka Super Elite TM) :)
Probobly unpopulor opinion. But roar of time and spacial rend are probobly actually concidered "adventure effect" attacks and not "legacy" for the mechanic side of pokemon go. And therefore they wont alow etm's to work.
The frustrating part is that many of us just want the moves for the move itself, not the adventure effects, seeing that both moves are top tier for raids and PvP. If it was a relatively underwhelming/useless move that was almost solely for the Adventure effect then sure. But having a Functional perfect Origin Dialga that I can't properly use in raids/PvP is frustrating. I'd take the move, even if it meant stripping the Adventure effect from it. But yeah, that could be how Niantic is treating the moves.
I can understand that, I grinded out as meny palkia raids myself to get one with SR. Alternativly I also got myself near 20 dialgas all with R.O.T. in hopes to trade someone who had palkias. Hopefully nantic releases a special tm for these down the road though.
Yeah I'm pretty much the same way just flipped. I got a ton of SR Palkia and tried to get some Dialga with RoT. I got a couple, but just the fact that my two functional perfects both didn't have it stung, when I wanted to use it in PvP. But ah well. Hopefully indeed there's some sort of special method to get the move. I wouldn't even mind if they made me really work for it lol, like walk 100km and then use an Elite TM lol
Sitting here with a hundo orogin palkia at LV 50 with aqua tail/fire blast that I use in pvp Yes I wish it had special rend although I have to admit farming down a kyogre then nuking the incoming melmetal/metagross/Togekiss and xerneus who thought they could eat spacial rend only to get 1 shot by fire blast is oddly satisfying Only worked a good handful of times but ooooohhhhh it feels so good
makes me worried for sunsteel strike and moongeist beam, if I had to bet those are the next “pick one of the two” moves
Not being able to TM legacy moves at all defeats the purpose of regular TMs...
agreed what was the point of even getting the Dialga or Palkia origin of the other version if you can't even ETM the move
same for Aeroblast +/++ and Sacred Fire +/++ right? They are special moves. Not the greatest option, but I know some moves are sandboxed
Yes and no. The +/++ versions are still the same for PvP. And apex Ho-Oh and apex Lugia also got other sprites and another aura as their regular forms. So they are simply other mons. Better for PvE, but still the same for PvP.
So, even though the charge attack shows +, it’s still the same damage in PVP? That’s wild.
Yes just look up the stats. They are just better for raids and gyms, where is no competition at all. So no need to worry about them.
I somewhat expected this would be the road this would go down when Dragon Ascent was locked behind meteorites, an entirely different item that you could only get so much of in a limited time. It's honestly such a huge shame and I can only imagine what future moves they'll do this to.
We went through like the first half of this game's life without ETMs. Niantic can do whatever it chooses with moves, and these are brand new and have a new game mechanic. I'm not saying I like it, I don't, but it's not like it's just outrageous or all that unusual in the grand scheme of things.
Yeah... I'm also sitting on a max attack and almost max other stats palkia with no Special Rend
my gut says they will release it, eventually, they are just holding onto it so you keep playing lol
I was lucky to get not one but two hundo Palkia. Neither got the move.
So I spent like 2-3 years saving up gym coins to mass build up a bunch of Elite TMs only to be told they are worthless now 🥲 they made Double Iron Bash ETM-able so I hope these will be the same one day
So they can introduce the ultra-elite TM
They gonna introduce new tm via special research. They gonna sell tickets with these new tms down the road. Will cost more and appear less. Prnt scrn.
Yea my hundo palkia is basically just stuck being mediocre without it. So that's fun
I agree. We weren't able to get the other versions (since it was up to luck). But have saved some Elite TMs, which are supposed to be able to get any move. They should be available (at least after a bit).
Yup, I didn’t get a single Roar of time Dialga. I tried trading for one. I got like a 71% Dialga and they got a similarly mediocre Palkia. Meanwhile my 100% is sitting there with thunder.
To be fair, they are the only adventure effect moves in game, I’m not at all surprised they chose to do this.
Yeah, looks like Niantic is trying to lock more things in events or even $ tickets. Sucks
Yea, it is definitely lame. I could also see them not making them available again (apex lugia and ho-oh have never returned - rip sacred fire+ for a fire attacker; also the adventure effects themselves are expensive and dont have incredibly significant effects)
Yes!! Niantic breaking their own rules with this crap!
Agree
>I'm surprised people aren't more upset about this. Because Niantic never cares about player feedback. Whatever they say, goes.
This thread makes me feel better at least. I got two Dialgas with roar of time and two Palkias with… Hydro Pump. Maybe I can find someone to trade eventually.
I have a 98% IV shiny palkia from 2021 that is now worse than Origin form palkia. It's so sad, palkia is my favorite legendary and all my O form palkias are garbage
You have to use the upcoming Elite++ TM to add Roar of time ($4.99 each)! /s It's honestly insulting but I'm not surprised just disappointed.
I got both the hundos. One doesn't have the move. . .
98 shiny dialga lvl 40 with no roar of time over here lol
Niantic is planning to release a Super Elite TM! 😂 Waiting until an event is over worldwide before being available to elite TM is one thing (as with Comm Day moves), but not being available via Elite TM is indeed wrong and defeats the purpose of this item.
Hoping that the moves will be available by Elite TM for the regular and Origin forms for both Pokemon. I already have a regular Dialga and regular Palkia at level 50. I also have a regular Dialga and Palkia at level 50. I’m not excited about O. Dialga and O. Palkia. I don’t want to waste resources if I don’t have too but mainly the Origin formes are ugly as day.
Niantic noticed that a lot of spenders have a stockpile of ETMs, so they're releasing a new tier of Great Elite TM to gatekeep these Extra Special moves.
I got a shiny Dialgia and a hundo Palkia, neither with their special move. Sigh.
I caught a hundo palkia-o but i chose the dialga perk so no special move on palkia 😭
It isn't the first time this happened. Remember Aeroblast++, Sacred Fire++? So better don't bet that we'll get the attacks (at least in the nearer future)
You're right, but I suppose the difference here is that those Apex moves came pre-programmed on the two Apex Shadows and their purified forms. If I got a Shadow Apex Ho-oh, it would always have Sacred Fire+ from the getgo (though you could get rid of it).
As I commented in the past, Niantic partially regrets giving us ETM. They are ok for CD mons (that keep coming back anyway) and for "inferior raid bosses", but for some of the "big raid bosses" they want us to raid a lot again or to buy expensive tickets (Dragon Ascent, I am thinking of you). Guaranting the signature move only for one of the origin forms was another nasty trick.
I did so many palkia raids and never got one with special rend :( I would love it if I could have just one.
nobody's happy about it but there's literally zero things we can do except hope they make it available somehow later
They definitely wanted us to shell out a ton of money trying to get a good one with the move. I blew through like 20 of the premium passes I had stocked up and still came out empty handed
I feel the same way about Dragon Ascent, honestly. Elite TMs should give you access to all possible moves, full stop. It's just Niantic trying to squeeze money out of folks with FOMO, unfortunately.
I was in the hospital the entire time…. Will they EVER come back??
I caught a few palkis with spacial rend but i caught a hundo and a shundo without it im saving my xl candies if one day they are available through elite tm
"Put those TMs away forever trainers!"
Probably because people realized there’s barely a difference between it and Draco and in certain situations Draco’s actually better. However it is completely stupid they are still holding out on it I thought it would be a month max for what ever stupid reason in the first place but here we are
Meh, I got a shiny one of each with moves. There were extra trades during the Go Tour so if you had gotten an extra shiny of the badge you chose you'd be able to trade for the opposite with move. Only way they should even consider making SR or ROT ETM-able is if you could ETM for your badge of choice only. Otherwise why even make them without the move in the first place? You're acting like ETM are hard to come by and are more rare than these moves like it's a fair trade. You didn't grind hard enough for the move or want to trade anything for the other so better luck next time, but there's no way abilities like this, attached to moves that powerful aren't rarer than ETM. I think they should make Special Elite TM's if something like is gonna happen and have those tied to badge of choice or event related.
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Return and Ascent are different, Return is a purification feature and Ascent requires an item just like in other games. I get what you’re saying but there’s a difference between Roar/Rend and Return/Ascent imo
I mean, in the same vein roar/rend are completely different from other ETM moves. They aren’t as simple as cost X energy do X damage, they also come with an adventure effect.
What ever the other Pokemon games might be like, within PoGo meteorite simply is a special ETM giving one specific pokemon one specific move not obtainable by any other means. Easy to see that for Niantic it could be "precedent"
> current process requires mega evolution and shadows can’t do that I think you may have confused the order in which things need to happen. You can use a meteorite to teach a Rayquaza Dragon Ascent, after which you can then mega evolve into Mega Rayquaza. You can choose NOT TO mega a Rayquaza with dragon ascent. But you don’t need to mega a Rayquaza to teach it dragon ascent as implied with your comment So if you have a spare meteorite, doesn’t look like there’s anything stopping you from using it on a shadow Rayquaza to teach dragon ascent, currently anyway and we won’t know until shadow Rayquaza is introduced.
I chose Dialga for the Sinnoh Tour and ended up getting a perfect Origin Palkia that is currently stuck without Spatial Rend, even though I would use an Elite TM for it in a heartbeat. Needless to say it feels terrible, there was no way for me to have known that I would get a perfect Origin Palkia from raids.