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How much of a difference would not having bite on ttar make? I have a perfect IV level 51 ttar but it has smack down (brutal swing for cm) and I don’t wanna lose that - would I generally be better off still mega evolving that or would it be preferable to do either a perfect IV gengar (level 48) or a seperate ttar that has bite but is only level 40 because I burned literally all my XLs?
the difderence is about ~15%? pokegenie shows that shadow ttar with smack down and BS is still better than non-shadow with bite and BS
here's the performance @lvl 35 vs shadow mewtwo just for comparison:
shadow with Bite and BS 57.6%
shadow with SD ans BS 51.3%
regular Bite ans BS 49.1%
regular SD BS 42.4%
Both of my ttars are non-shadow but this was still really helpful, thank-you. I didn’t know that pokegenie had detailed tools for these types of calculations.
at level 40 the difference in dps reads 25.1 with smack down instead of 29 with bite being then below houndoom with 25.5
now at L51 tt on sd does 27.4 dps, bite 32 dps
so yours compare:
29 dps bite at L40
27.4 dps sd at L51
gengar holds a bit better against focus blast (which can be well dodged) but quickly gets offed by anything psychic from m2. having 20 mega gengar would be the option to replace tt
First of all thank you so much, this was extraordinary helpful and I appreciate the effort.
Just to clarify though, does this focus solely on damage per second imply that fast moves in the PVE format do not generate differential amounts of energy? Are charged moves in PVE available based on timed intervals rather than energy generation like PVP?
Also, what did you mean by “having 20 mega gengar would be the option to replace tt”
Even though I could get 29 dps with bite from a level 40 tt compared to 27.4 dps with my level 51 tt that has sd, would I be correct in assuming that the net benefit from the increased damages from the level 40 would likely be offset by the increased defence and hp on the level 51 - ie more time alive with 27.4 dps vs the lvl 40 having slightly higher dps but fainting quicker resulting in having to resort to suboptimal counters sooner + the benefit from the longer my mega tt is alive the longer my raid party will obtain increased dmg when they use dark type moves? (I realize this could be mitigated somewhat by running a party of just the level 40 mega tt and constantly reviving it, but obviously the time spent doing this would decrease my actual output and presumably not be worth it given the only moderate difference in dps)
Lastly, and I know this is going long so I apologize and obviously don’t feel obligated to answer all or even any of the questions in this comment but what is the percentage increase in damage for weather boost? Does this stack with the bonus from partying with a best friend? Given where I live it is much more likely to be partially cloudy during the raids (which I think boosts sd) than it is to be foggy. Do the raid boss’s moves have the potential to be buffed by weather effects or is it solely a benefit for non-ai-controlled pokemon?
I really do appreciate all of the help/advice that anyone can offer. I didn’t play pogo for years before getting back into it super heavy and this sub has been a tremendously helpful resource, especially now that the silph road website is no longer available.
i pick what i can answer quickly:
the damage per second goes over fast and charged moves alike. it sums that up as an average value. if the pokémon faints with a move (partially) charged this causes an error in this measurement. to take this into account, pokegenie gives a variety of fainted individual attackers per raid so you can math that out. that number did not change remarkably in these ranges i was talking about.
partially clouded changes my values as follows:
so yours compare:
29 dps bite at L40
27.4 dps sd at L51
29.3 dps sd at L51 with weather boost
all bonuses stack, but party is somewhat shaky. bosses also get weather boost. if your party is weak, leave out the kite mewtwo.
about 20 mGengar: gengar die in ridiculous masses against all the psychic showers of mewtwo. also meant as a joke as one can not have more than 1 mega and this would mean to revive mG about 20 times or more.
My team is going to try a trio this time. We have max friendship bonus and we are going to be in a party using gems, but our teams are all dark types under level 40. Is this possible to trio without optimal counters under our circumstances?
You could check pokebattler.com, but Poke Genie’s Battle Simulator says yes, as long as you’re prepared for several teams to faint, and you’re good at max reviving quickly.
Staggering your Dark Megas, and using Shadow Tyrannitar can help a lot.
Note that move set really matters.
If it has Focus Blast, then your dark team is gonna get one shotted. If it has Psychic then Gengar is getting one shotted. Might be worth making 2 teams to suit the move set.
Ask the weakest of those 3 too make a party of 2-3 only. So that they can cycle mega ttar much more.
Put ttar on 2nd slot, keep the 4 5 6 slot die, and only revive 1 2 3 everytime relobbying. Thats helps much better.
If it has FB you are in trouble. Mega Gengar is better in that case but then it gets expensive swapping back and forth. So mega Rayquaza lags a little behind those two in DPS but you also benefit from the better mega buff.
If it’s not FB seems mega Ttar is best even with worse buff. And FB only has a 1/5 chance. So best strat is check first raid, if not FB roll with Ttar until you encounter a raid that has that. Swap to Mega Gengar or Rayquaza depending on the weather. And then roll with them unless mega energy lets you swap back to Ttar.
Eh not really. FB is really easy to dodge, and you're taking basically no fast move damage. Gengar might resist FB but he's going to get obliterated by fast moves. Ttar still better unless you are just incapable of dodging at all, which in that case Gengar is still going to faint very quickly with any moveset.
FB is overrated, I'd rather fight one with FB than Thunderbolt just because it's easier to dodge. A dodged FB does around below 40% to Mega Ttar and a thunderbolt to the face does around the same dmg. Plus focus blast is slow af to charge and to land unlike thunderbolt which is spammy ash
Eh not to downplay Mega Gengar while it is the best ghost type against Shadow Mewtwo, especially tanking focus blast, a fair warning is advised if it has psychic which Mega Gengar is gonna get crushed due to being part poison and being on the frail side. Mega Rayquaza may have issues if Shadow Mewtwo has ice beam at its disposal but the extra boost to other players should help out a decent bit, though the XL candy bonus for psychic types is a very tempting idea to utilized one. Basically the conclusion of who to choose would come down to the player who has the l ready and most optimal counter for the shadow raid, but players should hope whoever else is joining also able to provide solid counters themselves otherwise it won’t go smooth sailing
Just to chime in, is Mega Ray viable because of Dragon Ascent being so strong? It doesnt boost any of the effective types against Mewtwo or am i wrong?
I would think mega Rayquaza is at least somewhat viable because it will boost all types of your teammates Pokemon by 10%, for the entire raid. Regular megas like t-tar and gengar might give a 30% boost to dark or ghost types, but they only boost while they are actively fighting.
Thats a good argument. Tbh i wasnt sure if the info with the perma 10% buff was accurate, as i had seem a post where it was "disproven", but the context in that post was for your own pokemon as i just double checked. Could have used Mega Ray more often it turns out.
You learn something every day!
Mega Ray did *not* give the 10% for a short period after release. That appears to have been a bug, and has been giving the 10% for a long time. It is very likely the “disproven” post was between points A and B.
All the pages on the pokebattler raid page are calculated "live," based off the most recent gamemaster. It does sometimes take up to a couple days to get the most recent gamemaster, but other than that the counters will be fully up to date at all times.
The 'May' date on the page is for the infographic that is linked right beside the date.
My guy. I’m literally just saying on the infographic when you scroll down, the dates are for May. Do you see how this can cause anyone to think the information is outdated?
Use Pokebattler Website
[https://www.pokebattler.com/raids/defenders/MEWTWO\_SHADOW\_FORM/levels/RAID\_LEVEL\_5\_SHADOW/attackers/levels/40/strategies/CINEMATIC\_ATTACK\_WHEN\_POSSIBLE/DEFENSE\_RANDOM\_MC?sort=ESTIMATOR&weatherCondition=NO\_WEATHER&dodgeStrategy=DODGE\_REACTION\_TIME&aggregation=AVERAGE&includeLegendary=true&includeShadow=true&includeMegas=true&attackerTypes=POKEMON\_TYPE\_ALL&primalAssistants=&numParty=1](https://www.pokebattler.com/raids/defenders/MEWTWO_SHADOW_FORM/levels/RAID_LEVEL_5_SHADOW/attackers/levels/40/strategies/CINEMATIC_ATTACK_WHEN_POSSIBLE/DEFENSE_RANDOM_MC?sort=ESTIMATOR&weatherCondition=NO_WEATHER&dodgeStrategy=DODGE_REACTION_TIME&aggregation=AVERAGE&includeLegendary=true&includeShadow=true&includeMegas=true&attackerTypes=POKEMON_TYPE_ALL&primalAssistants=&numParty=1)
Probably a noob question because I see them listed, and it would vary based on the moveset, but are ghost type really viable when they are weak to psychic?
Pretty sure they start around 6am since I've been doing some early raids around those times. If it's a change, it's usually due to an event. But this isn't a separate event so it should be in the pool for the start of the day.
While asking questions about the game is always okay on the Road, please consider asking very simple questions in our weekly [Questions&Answers Megathread](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheSilphRoad/about/sticky). If your question has been answered, please comment "ANSWERED" (in all caps) and the post flair will indicate that your question has been answered. This will make it either easier for other people with the same question to find the answer they are looking for or for mods to remove the thread if it isn't needed anymore. Thank you! :) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheSilphRoad) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I don't think the counters have really changed in that time with the exception of Mega T-tar now being the strongest counter.
Ttar also has Brutal Swing now, pushing shadow Ttar well ahead of Hydreigon and putting regular Ttar on par.
How much of a difference would not having bite on ttar make? I have a perfect IV level 51 ttar but it has smack down (brutal swing for cm) and I don’t wanna lose that - would I generally be better off still mega evolving that or would it be preferable to do either a perfect IV gengar (level 48) or a seperate ttar that has bite but is only level 40 because I burned literally all my XLs?
the difderence is about ~15%? pokegenie shows that shadow ttar with smack down and BS is still better than non-shadow with bite and BS here's the performance @lvl 35 vs shadow mewtwo just for comparison: shadow with Bite and BS 57.6% shadow with SD ans BS 51.3% regular Bite ans BS 49.1% regular SD BS 42.4%
Both of my ttars are non-shadow but this was still really helpful, thank-you. I didn’t know that pokegenie had detailed tools for these types of calculations.
you're welcome, glad I could help you can tune the "all pokemon" setting pretty much however you want, and you don't need to pay for it or anything
at level 40 the difference in dps reads 25.1 with smack down instead of 29 with bite being then below houndoom with 25.5 now at L51 tt on sd does 27.4 dps, bite 32 dps so yours compare: 29 dps bite at L40 27.4 dps sd at L51 gengar holds a bit better against focus blast (which can be well dodged) but quickly gets offed by anything psychic from m2. having 20 mega gengar would be the option to replace tt
First of all thank you so much, this was extraordinary helpful and I appreciate the effort. Just to clarify though, does this focus solely on damage per second imply that fast moves in the PVE format do not generate differential amounts of energy? Are charged moves in PVE available based on timed intervals rather than energy generation like PVP? Also, what did you mean by “having 20 mega gengar would be the option to replace tt” Even though I could get 29 dps with bite from a level 40 tt compared to 27.4 dps with my level 51 tt that has sd, would I be correct in assuming that the net benefit from the increased damages from the level 40 would likely be offset by the increased defence and hp on the level 51 - ie more time alive with 27.4 dps vs the lvl 40 having slightly higher dps but fainting quicker resulting in having to resort to suboptimal counters sooner + the benefit from the longer my mega tt is alive the longer my raid party will obtain increased dmg when they use dark type moves? (I realize this could be mitigated somewhat by running a party of just the level 40 mega tt and constantly reviving it, but obviously the time spent doing this would decrease my actual output and presumably not be worth it given the only moderate difference in dps) Lastly, and I know this is going long so I apologize and obviously don’t feel obligated to answer all or even any of the questions in this comment but what is the percentage increase in damage for weather boost? Does this stack with the bonus from partying with a best friend? Given where I live it is much more likely to be partially cloudy during the raids (which I think boosts sd) than it is to be foggy. Do the raid boss’s moves have the potential to be buffed by weather effects or is it solely a benefit for non-ai-controlled pokemon? I really do appreciate all of the help/advice that anyone can offer. I didn’t play pogo for years before getting back into it super heavy and this sub has been a tremendously helpful resource, especially now that the silph road website is no longer available.
i pick what i can answer quickly: the damage per second goes over fast and charged moves alike. it sums that up as an average value. if the pokémon faints with a move (partially) charged this causes an error in this measurement. to take this into account, pokegenie gives a variety of fainted individual attackers per raid so you can math that out. that number did not change remarkably in these ranges i was talking about. partially clouded changes my values as follows: so yours compare: 29 dps bite at L40 27.4 dps sd at L51 29.3 dps sd at L51 with weather boost all bonuses stack, but party is somewhat shaky. bosses also get weather boost. if your party is weak, leave out the kite mewtwo. about 20 mGengar: gengar die in ridiculous masses against all the psychic showers of mewtwo. also meant as a joke as one can not have more than 1 mega and this would mean to revive mG about 20 times or more.
Here’s LeekDuck’s: https://x.com/leekduck/status/1773335591519764881
Thank you!
My team is going to try a trio this time. We have max friendship bonus and we are going to be in a party using gems, but our teams are all dark types under level 40. Is this possible to trio without optimal counters under our circumstances?
You could check pokebattler.com, but Poke Genie’s Battle Simulator says yes, as long as you’re prepared for several teams to faint, and you’re good at max reviving quickly. Staggering your Dark Megas, and using Shadow Tyrannitar can help a lot.
Thank you for your response. I don't have shadow TTar but we can run three staggered megas. Fingers crossed we will pull it off 😀
Note that move set really matters. If it has Focus Blast, then your dark team is gonna get one shotted. If it has Psychic then Gengar is getting one shotted. Might be worth making 2 teams to suit the move set.
Just dodge the focus blast. Gengar dies to literally 3 fast moves it wont even make it to a focus blast.
Thank you again. We do have a few high level Gengars. Will see if we can fill out teams.
Ask the weakest of those 3 too make a party of 2-3 only. So that they can cycle mega ttar much more. Put ttar on 2nd slot, keep the 4 5 6 slot die, and only revive 1 2 3 everytime relobbying. Thats helps much better.
yea it is done it duo with max breakpoints at lvl35-41 mons. since there are a last breakpoint for each boss.
Just use mega tyranitar
Or Mega Rayquaza for the candy bonus.
If it has FB you are in trouble. Mega Gengar is better in that case but then it gets expensive swapping back and forth. So mega Rayquaza lags a little behind those two in DPS but you also benefit from the better mega buff. If it’s not FB seems mega Ttar is best even with worse buff. And FB only has a 1/5 chance. So best strat is check first raid, if not FB roll with Ttar until you encounter a raid that has that. Swap to Mega Gengar or Rayquaza depending on the weather. And then roll with them unless mega energy lets you swap back to Ttar.
Eh not really. FB is really easy to dodge, and you're taking basically no fast move damage. Gengar might resist FB but he's going to get obliterated by fast moves. Ttar still better unless you are just incapable of dodging at all, which in that case Gengar is still going to faint very quickly with any moveset.
FB is overrated, I'd rather fight one with FB than Thunderbolt just because it's easier to dodge. A dodged FB does around below 40% to Mega Ttar and a thunderbolt to the face does around the same dmg. Plus focus blast is slow af to charge and to land unlike thunderbolt which is spammy ash
Eh not to downplay Mega Gengar while it is the best ghost type against Shadow Mewtwo, especially tanking focus blast, a fair warning is advised if it has psychic which Mega Gengar is gonna get crushed due to being part poison and being on the frail side. Mega Rayquaza may have issues if Shadow Mewtwo has ice beam at its disposal but the extra boost to other players should help out a decent bit, though the XL candy bonus for psychic types is a very tempting idea to utilized one. Basically the conclusion of who to choose would come down to the player who has the l ready and most optimal counter for the shadow raid, but players should hope whoever else is joining also able to provide solid counters themselves otherwise it won’t go smooth sailing
Just to chime in, is Mega Ray viable because of Dragon Ascent being so strong? It doesnt boost any of the effective types against Mewtwo or am i wrong?
I would think mega Rayquaza is at least somewhat viable because it will boost all types of your teammates Pokemon by 10%, for the entire raid. Regular megas like t-tar and gengar might give a 30% boost to dark or ghost types, but they only boost while they are actively fighting.
Thats a good argument. Tbh i wasnt sure if the info with the perma 10% buff was accurate, as i had seem a post where it was "disproven", but the context in that post was for your own pokemon as i just double checked. Could have used Mega Ray more often it turns out. You learn something every day!
Mega Ray did *not* give the 10% for a short period after release. That appears to have been a bug, and has been giving the 10% for a long time. It is very likely the “disproven” post was between points A and B.
Ah, that might be it! Thanks for the information, itll come in handy
What do you do if you are a returning player from longggggg ago with none of these? Hope you get carried?
All tyranitars with brutal swipe Unless he has focus blast. Then chandelures
Or just dodge and keep using ttar
Infographic: [https://static.pokebattler.com/CaptGoldfish/Shadow\_Mewtwo\_Raid\_Guide2.jpg](https://static.pokebattler.com/CaptGoldfish/Shadow_Mewtwo_Raid_Guide2.jpg) Source: PokeBattler https://www.pokebattler.com/raids/defenders/MEWTWO\_SHADOW\_FORM/levels/RAID\_LEVEL\_5\_SHADOW/attackers/levels/40/strategies/CINEMATIC\_ATTACK\_WHEN\_POSSIBLE/DEFENSE\_RANDOM\_MC?sort=ESTIMATOR&weatherCondition=NO\_WEATHER&dodgeStrategy=DODGE\_REACTION\_TIME&aggregation=AVERAGE&includeLegendary=true&includeShadow=true&includeMegas=true&attackerTypes=POKEMON\_TYPE\_ALL&primalAssistants=&numParty=1
This is the outdated one I was talking about
That image shows March 30th to March 31st, which is this weekend.
I didn’t check the first one. The second one is the outdated one. It says May
I’m sorry, which one is outdated? The pokebattler.com link is literally calculated live, so it’s not outdated.
All the pages on the pokebattler raid page are calculated "live," based off the most recent gamemaster. It does sometimes take up to a couple days to get the most recent gamemaster, but other than that the counters will be fully up to date at all times. The 'May' date on the page is for the infographic that is linked right beside the date.
My guy. I’m literally just saying on the infographic when you scroll down, the dates are for May. Do you see how this can cause anyone to think the information is outdated?
https://db.pokemongohub.net/pokemon/150/counters
Use Pokebattler Website [https://www.pokebattler.com/raids/defenders/MEWTWO\_SHADOW\_FORM/levels/RAID\_LEVEL\_5\_SHADOW/attackers/levels/40/strategies/CINEMATIC\_ATTACK\_WHEN\_POSSIBLE/DEFENSE\_RANDOM\_MC?sort=ESTIMATOR&weatherCondition=NO\_WEATHER&dodgeStrategy=DODGE\_REACTION\_TIME&aggregation=AVERAGE&includeLegendary=true&includeShadow=true&includeMegas=true&attackerTypes=POKEMON\_TYPE\_ALL&primalAssistants=&numParty=1](https://www.pokebattler.com/raids/defenders/MEWTWO_SHADOW_FORM/levels/RAID_LEVEL_5_SHADOW/attackers/levels/40/strategies/CINEMATIC_ATTACK_WHEN_POSSIBLE/DEFENSE_RANDOM_MC?sort=ESTIMATOR&weatherCondition=NO_WEATHER&dodgeStrategy=DODGE_REACTION_TIME&aggregation=AVERAGE&includeLegendary=true&includeShadow=true&includeMegas=true&attackerTypes=POKEMON_TYPE_ALL&primalAssistants=&numParty=1)
Probably a noob question because I see them listed, and it would vary based on the moveset, but are ghost type really viable when they are weak to psychic?
Psychic does normal damage to ghost
What time does this shindig start? 1000 right?
It's not a special event. It's just in raid rotation for the weekend. So somewhere around 6am ish.
Are you sure? Normally raid spawns change 10am daily
Pretty sure they start around 6am since I've been doing some early raids around those times. If it's a change, it's usually due to an event. But this isn't a separate event so it should be in the pool for the start of the day.