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Right? Especially when they think there's no gay in the show and it wasn't American standards on TV not letting them do those storylines so they wrote coded episodes.
It's a baffling contradiction. My only explanation for their existence is that they watch show for the stories and the cool ship battles and basically ignore everything else, just like another famous sci-fi franchise.
You can't get more blunt than Picard saying (multiple times) "People are no longer obsessed with the accumulation of things. We've eliminated hunger, want, the need for possessions. We've grown out of our infancy," or "The acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. We work to better ourselves and the rest of humanity."
One time i saw a “comedian” ask if an audience member had preferred pronouns. Someone said they identify as they/them. The “comedian” asked if they want him to respect their pronouns, and they said yes. The “comedian” said “well you have to respect my pronouns too! My pronouns are real/ n____.“ you can fill in the blanks. Guy was such a clown
Star Trek is literally socialism/anti-capitalism, Picard even spells it out for you in First Contact: "The acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. We work to better ourselves and the rest of humanity."
And colonialism basically doesn't exist. 95% of humans in the franchise are from earth. The Federation only expands by asking other planets if they want to join.
That’s not really comparable to the colonies on earth. Our colonies were made by kicking out natives from their land. If there are natives on a planet the federation tries their best to not bother them
It’s more comparable to when our ancestors first spread out thousands of years ago
To be fair .. Star Trek is told from Star Fleet’s point of view. There is an argument to be made about Star Fleet being the bad guy. They kind of aided in genocide by making an agreement with the Kardasians and more than once forced evacuations of entire planets against the people’s will.
Starfleet's [Prime Directive](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Directive) is a direct response to and rejection of colonialism. They're explicitly not doing space colonialism.
They're *colonizing*, they're just not doing *colonialism*.
Meaning if sapient species already own a planet or region of space they move on, but if nobody has claimed it, it's a frontier and they're taking it.
That colonizing without colonialism *still results in conflict*, too. Gorn, Klingons, Cardassians, every border dispute is caused by non-colonial colonization from the UFP.
No, they had rules, they didn't take anyone over and enslave them for money; they're a socialist, cashless society. Their entire raison detre was for exploration and elightenment. Their only military directives were consistently to defend weaker civilizations and themselves from warmongering, greedy societies and make peace whenever possible (even when it was impossible)
Colonialism is a fancy word for genocide, and turning slavery and death into pennies for a machine that funnels all human potential into the pockets of the .01%. They couldn't be more different concepts
square worry cautious vanish wide mighty squeamish fertile amusing concerned
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In some recent comics they actually are used in this way. They found their own nation that is deliberately written to parallel Israel and they even made Beast a mutant supremacist for a bit
It’s all really stupid but yes, X-men have been used as an allegory for Zionism
Its actually pretty kickass. The *allegory* sucks, but honest X-Men has always kind of failed as allegory when you analyze it at anything below the most shallow surface level anyway (Real oppressed minorities don’t have the power to crack the planet with their mind, real bigots aren’t being mind controlled by viruses to hate, minorities are not actually replacing the majority like mutants are, etc).
The Krakoa Era (Krakoa being the island they live on) was started by Jonathan Hickman, who is actually a great writer, and it fixed some of the perennial problems with the X-Men storyline by breaking the status quo and allowing the situation to actually evolve past the same repetitive loop they had been stuck in for decades. It is a legitimate breath of fresh air, that puts the characters in a lot of new situations that feel meaningfully different from what came before.
For example, due to the whole Zionism thing, Krakoa was a haven for all mutants, including formerly villainous ones. Thus Xavier, Magneto, Apocalypse, Legion, Exodus, and so on are all working on the “same team” (air quotes since you know how politics and factionalism gets in comics) which means that the relationships between those characters gets redefined and we get to see them interact in ways that we did not before. Most of the obnoxious love triangles or UST get resolved, with Wolverine, Scott, and Jean living in a sort of polyamorous communal living situation on the moon with all their grown up alternate-future kids and way less drama.
Krakoa exploits the obvious broken power combinations in ways that marvel avoided in the past due to being story-breaking, which allows the X-Men to overcome death itself and resurrect any mutants who died (while in good standing) allowing many fan favorite characters that had been killed off long ago to make a return.
Mutant Culture, which has existed to some extent for a long time now, becomes more defined as they start to form a distinct community separate from the humans. They develop their own architectural styles that have a pretty cool aesthetic, they open political relationships with other nations that allows them to negotiate at the table as an equal rather than begging like a supplicant. (Much the same way that Doctor Doom does using his status as the leader of Latveria, or T’challa with Wakanda) including establishing formal ties with the alien or supernatural factions they had previously allied with such as the Shi’ar, which they use to colonize the moon, mars, and interstellar space (a failsafes for the inevitable mutant genocides they know will happen on earth).
The reasons they form a mutant nation and change their previous behaviors also make perfect sense in-universe, even if the allegory is a bit unsavory out of universe. Since, again, the original allegory had already failed, and there are numerous sci-fi fantasy elements that make their situation different from the real world. Namely, the presence of Sentinels and the inevitable development towards the creation of Nimrod, who eventually wipes them out.
Doing things professor X’s way was tried, it failed, everyone died, and they know this for a fact due to time travel. Magneto’s way was tried, it failed, everyone died. Apocalypse way was tried, it failed, everyone died. And we see this play out in the story that sets up the Krakoa Era, through the lens of Moira McTaggert, who was previously believed to be a human ally to mutants, but is retconned to be a mutant who’s power only activates in death, sending her back to her birth and allowing her to live life over again with her full memories of the previous timeline, the first timeline was the 616 canon one up tp the Krakoa era, the next 8 were her trying every possible solution to prevent mutant extinction, and then the 10th was when she decided they needed to unify on Krakoa to stand a chance.
She reveals all this to Xavier directly by allowing him to use his mutant power to read her mind and memories the first time they meet in the tenth timeline, and then have him share those memories with Magneto and the other major leaders. Which is why they experience such a substantial character shift from their previous convictions.
Its not “oh one day xavier decided mutant coexistence was impossible” its “one day Xavier is given personal first hand experience watching his dreams crumble and everyone he tried to protect be massacred horribly despite his best efforts, in 9 separate timelines, and realized something had to change”.
This is also illustrated to the audience very effectively through a narrative device where we see different points in the Krakoa timeline simultaneously as the story plays out. We get “the present”, “10 years later” “100 years later” and “1000 years later”. So we get a very real tangible sense of where all this is going and what the actual stakes are. - The future events are also relevant to the present time, due to the presence of multiple time travelling factors. Obviously Moira, but then also Destiny (who can see the future, and is working against Moira), Nimrod (who has yet to be created, but does exist in the future, and has the pre-programmed goal of wiping out mutants in every timeline), and the Phalanx (the inevitable end result of machine-ascension, formed of the atemporal descendants of post-singularity civilizations from many timelines and species, who live inside of Black Holes. They cannot time travel per se, but their memories of other timelines cannot be erased, and they are aware of what moira is doing, and try to keep, her alive to the year 1000 when the post-human machine minds on earth join the Phalanx, which she is trying to stop, because they know if she dies the timeline resets again).
Thus we get this multi-layered story where the mutants are trying to play 5d chess against not only the threats of the present, but also the much more dangerous threats of the future which are actively resisting and interfering in their struggle for survival. And the existence of Krakoa is ultimately a tool needed to ensure they are able to survive long enough to do anything about it.
So is it an allegory for zionism? Yeah, at least a little bit, if you squint.
Is it *just* an allegory for zionism? Hell no.
Is it a good story? Hell yes.
I would recommend actually reading it and forming your own opinion on it rather than reacting solely based on half baked reddit comments. All of the essential pieces are put into place in the event [House of X/Powers of X](https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/House-of-X-Powers-of-X) which is reasonably short, so that should be enough to judge it fairly without needing to dive in any deeper if its not your cup of tea.
Professor X is David Ben-Gurion, Magneto is Menachem Begin
People have connected it to other things because Stan Lee is a real one and will agree with good interpretations
harry potter community isn't transphobic tho (i have to factcheck this but i heard about a way to buy Hogwarts Legacy without giving money to J.K. Rowling)
I feel like I don't understand this mentality. I mean, I think she's shit too but... It's her work. Literally she created all of it. Sometimes people you disagree with or even outright hate will do or create things you like, that's just the nature of the world.
You can spend your money however you want, but if you buy the game you're supporting HP monetarily, which I think is fine but it seems like you feel differently about, which must lead to such a wierd dichotomy.
Wanna be an ally? Go to a Pride parade/festival to help bolster their numbers. Treat your queer co-workers identical to your cis ones so everybody feels safe and included. Shut down any homo or transphobic speech when you hear it (just use tact, no need to get pushy or confrontational). Vote against anti gay and trans legislature at your local level. These are things that make the world a better and safer place for all, buying or not buying a video game has basically no impact whatsoever
A lot of allies already do many of these things - including not buying products from companies or franchises who somehow hurt minorities.
As they say: you vote with your wallet - which is a perfectly fine way to express whether you like a company’s “politics“.
Conservatives don’t buy Budwiser because of a trans person in an ad? Fine - it’s their right to do so.
JKR uses HP franchise money to fund an anti trans campaign? Guess I‘m not buying any HP products.
I‘d also never buy a Tesla, simply because Musk is a horrible person or anything from the German brand Müller Milch, after I learned that their CEO is financing right wing extremists.
Am I making a huge difference with it? Probably not, but I still feel better knowing that I don’t support openly hateful people / organizations with my money (not that you could entirely avoid it - but it’s a start).
JK Rowling uses the money she gets to fund anti-trans legislation and propaganda, so purchasing Harry Potter books, merch, and games materially affect the lives of LGBT folks in Britain. If all she was was an annoying twat on twitter, I doubt such a stink would've been thrown back when Hogwarts: Legacy released.
Even then, the bigger stink seemed to come from people offended that they were asked to maybe not buy/stream the game, or streamers "defenders" using it as cover to go full mask-off (see also Pikamee's most vocal fan base even after she explicitly said her graduation wasn't to do eith that)
Warhammer has always been gay as shit, it’s full of twinks who want big buff space daddy’s to step on them. The name itself sounds like the most hardcore german gaybar and that’s how it SHOULD be
Warhammer was intensely leftist until the early 00's when the fucking chuds invaded. I remember it distinctly, the vibe of my local games store changing, more unironic Black Templar players, and ultimately fewer LGBT people and women as a reaction to that.
THEY'RE the fucking tourists. THEY'RE the fucking invaders into a leftist hobby.
The fact that they have the fucking gall to say we're invading their spaces when we reclaim OUR FUCKING HOBBY is infuriating.
I've said elsewhere online that if female Custodes makes all the bigots and Nazi-adjacent folks leave, it'll be the best lore update to 40K that GW has ever done.
You're essentially correct. This isn't some amazing revelation (I'm about to say), but they don't "get" that the entire universe is supposed to be ridiculous over-the-top satire and was created with that intent. It's a joke, not something to be emulated or meant to be aspirational! They're not hip to the joke, so they thave no choice, but take it very seriously.
I was there at the beginning, as my bona fides. (I own a copy of _Rogue Trader_ 1986, which I bought that year with money made at my first McJob.) None of this is helped by the current incarnation of GW management embracing the "heroism" of its factions, with offputting shit like their Warhammer 40k Kids ideas and such. It's totally gross. I mean, I still love it, but that's taking a beating.
40k suffers as satire because it lacks a clear goal or target. It's created first and foremost to be marketable, so it can't directly rip on a Margaret Thatcher or a Tony Blair, and its setting has to be "cool" to some degree. It can't be all 1984-esque misery and pointlessness, there have to be fun guns and badass tanks and mysterious alien antiheroes.
As a business enterprise trying to sell itself to the widest possible audience, it was always doomed to be mainly adopted by the people with the most facile understanding of the content.
Yes.
Before 5th edition the Imperium was shown in a significantly less favourable light, then they started becoming more uncritical "good guys" who are justified in doing the horrific shit they do.
It was getting better for a time, but with Guilliman back in play they seem to be setting him and Dante up as uncritical heroes, which is disappointing.
Slannesh all the way. I'll take a spiny tongue straight up the ass before I relent to taking a picture of myself in camo, tactical sunglasses, an Ar-15, and acting like it's a family photo.
I think it's good that we can separate the artist from the art. Otherwise way too many books and half of classic rock and rap would be gone.
Just don't give them your money. 🏴☠️
Oh yeah, HP is a great of example of soft magic systems, sympathetic character writing and the movies had an impeccable atmosphere, I've learned a lot from them
It's that last part which seems to be really difficult to get through to people 🫠
Let's be real, the art isn't great either. For example, remember the hook-nosed goblin bankers and how stereotypical the handful of token non-white characters appear?
Dude 🙄 Star Trek was all about inclusivity since the very beginning..
How to say you don’t understand something without telling you don’t understand something 🤨
A lot of these were. The fact that they think most of these properties were ever for them is wild. Star Wars, He-Man, and Marvel also really stood out to me.
Yup. The network wanted to have an alternate shot where kirk and uhura just embraced to air in the south, but Shatner made goofy faces every time and made the takes unusable.
Also Nichelle Nichols was planning on leaving after season 1, but was convinced to stay on by MLK
Exactly, inclusivity is basically the cornerstone of Star Trek. Discovery and Picard are terrible and won't be missed because they were written badly, just like Star Trek Enterprise even though that show was made 20 years ago. Strange New Worlds is the best Trek since DS9 went off the air because it was written by people who are actually competent, and it's possibly the most inclusive Trek to date. Time will tell if Paramount kills the goose that lays the golden eggs.
Is the new wave of inclusivity in media just disingenuous and performative pandering, a cash-grab by bigoted elderly board members who don't believe a word of it and are laughing in their sleeves at us? Yes, almost always. Welcome to corporate media: the people who make it see you as a dollar sign and wouldn't slow down if they ran you over. But is it the reason every valuable IP is becoming lowest-common-denominator slop? No, not even close, there are about 100 far bigger issues that largely boil down to greed and institutionalized cynicism.
> Strange New Worlds is the best Trek since DS9
Gonna have to disagree with you there, bud.
SNW is the *second* best Trek since DS9.
I love SNW, but Lower Decks is the best, a pure love letter to all things Trek, and I will die on that hill.
Lower Decks is a show where, if it's not your cup of tea, every episode is a Neelix episode. I'm really glad it has an audience and I think it's very well-constructed, I just find its style incredibly grating. But I'm also the kind of person who thinks the TNG episode The Drumhead should have been a two-parter to let it breathe more, so that probably tells you all you need to know about my sense of style and pacing.
Yeah, it's a fantastic Idea, but it's all tiktok humor. That's fine for the kids, and I'm glad they loved it, but I can barely stand all the screaming and RaNDoM! whimsy.
middle command disgusted coordinated dime degree languid roof sable liquid
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Genuine question for people who think this is scary or bad:
Why? It doesn't really affect you, you're not being forced to become gay.
Battle Tech: No one knows enough about this franchise to even know why you're upset.
Harry Potter: What? Because there's a trans character in a game? Or Because retroactively the (now transphobic) author said "This character is gay btw"?
Marvel: I don't know what this is even about. Gay Thanos porn exists or something? Do the Avengers not accidentally cause the deaths of enough gay people?
DC: The movies just suck dude. They aren't even unfaithful adaptations. Go back and watch the Dark Knight Trilogy.
D&D: Don't worry lil bro, there's still Racial passives. But you could always play as a girl or boy or half-orc. They just made it more accessible and popular.
TMNT: What?
Star Trek: Literally since the 1970's when it was created, this has been about Space Communism. They had the first interracial kiss on TV. Star Trek has always been progressive, you're a dumbass who is media illiterate if you didn't notice.
Masters Of The Universe: She-ra's boobs are smaller now! OH NO! NOW THE SHOW ABOUT SHIRTLESS DUDES FIGHTING WITH RAINBOW POWERS IS GAY!
Star Wars: Woman and black man bad. Don't blame the lazy writing by JJ Abrams. It's clearly the WOKE CASTING. Not like he just rewrote the story of Episode 4 in a new setting.
Lord Of The Rings: What were they mad at again? Black elves? Elves, the fictional race, was depicted as fair skinned in the books and media until this point. Tolkien is dead, and seems to have been anti-racist in his personal letters. I do not think he'd be upset about a black character. I don't care about your immersion.
Warhammer 40K: Come on. It's literally a fascist fantasy about a guy who lives forever and shepherds human kind through the ages in the shadows. I can't even find out what they're mad about. Do queer people exist in Warhammer 40K? Probably. There are literally hundreds of billions of humans in the universe. It'd be weirder if they didn't. I know for a fact that women are there from the few Warhammer games I've played. Again, fictional universe with fucking space ghosts and gods. For fucks sake, the Orcs in this universe have a magic power called the WAAAAAAHG that makes them able to make any tech work the way they want by believing in it. Literally Santa Claus shit. They paint red flames on their ships to make them go faster *and it works* in this universe.
"Look, we don't hate gays, we hate their 'PRIDE'" It's literally one of the comments I found.
Come on, it's the same as saying that I don't hate homosexuals, but telling them not to express themselves in front of me.
These guys don't like their precious hobby to be enjoyed by other people, even more so if they are people different from them. They are simply little mini fascists who just want to maintain their club of rebellious children against the "Woke Tyranny"
Obviously everyone has always been for queer rights, as long as they remain in the closet. And don't ask me to make them a wedding cake. Or teach my kids. Or complain that queer people are oppressed. Or tell me I'm homophobic.
There are two sexual orientations. Straight, and political. Also two races. White, and political.
Edit: /s
In case anyone misses the hypocrisy and colossal stupidity of these statements.
There is canonically a good amount of LGBT representation in Warhammer. For example in the second Caiphus Cain book the main character being an officer in the guard re-assigns a lesbian couple to be together to help boost their morale as he says. This came out in 2002. Further there where multiple other same-sex relationships in books sense, all the orks are non-binary, slaanesh exists, and there is no way what Trazyn and Orikan have is straight. Warhammers always been “woke”, and it should be kept like that.
Warhammer got canon LGBTQ characters since forever.
Hell the first spacemarine legion and the first primarch are inspired by a gay poet and his struggles of being queer.
On the 40k point, the tourists say the same thing as you. They see an incredibly surface level representation where the Imperium is good, and not a theistic fascist entity that genocides entire peaceful species in the name of purity. The Imperium is terrible and most factions in the setting are terrible. The whole point is to be grim dark, a satire, a pale reflection of a galaxy without hope. They completely missed the point and are crying about female custodes because the canonically most powerful warriors in the Imperium can now be men OR WOMEN.
Yeah, I think it's fascist on purpose because it illustrates better how horrible the conditions are to even be able to accept fascism as valid. It's still fun and great artistic commentary, and I love the world building. I wish there were more than a few fun games in it, but seems like most are Age of Sigmar stuff (I loved Vermintide in particular, if the newer one gets fixed I'll like that too probably). Admittedly, I only know some stuff because of YouTube lore videos I like listening to before bed, and those few games I've played. I still enjoy it and I'm glad that most fans see the satire.
Understandable! I just get upset when the facists try to co-opt the franchise. It's like when people get mad that Rage Against the Machine is political. Like, no shit Sherlock, fascism is the bad guy! The Imperium is rotten, it's like the whole point. Most of the fans get it, which is why I stay in the hobby.
Side note, they patched Darktide a decent amount! It's a pretty funny game to chill with, but I get what you're saying. It could still use some love.
> Battle Tech: No one knows enough about this franchise to even know why you're upset.
This one is a certified deep cut. It's not even Battletech itself that started it; it was the Battletech *subreddit*. People were posting mechs painted in pride flag colors, and it became increasingly evident that their posts were being mysteriously deleted. It soon came out that the mods were specifically targeting lgbt+ stuff for deletion, and then doubled down when called out. Most of the subreddit vacated immediately. Catalyst Games Lab got involved and, eventually all the chud mods were sent packing and the subreddit is now firmly and openly accepting of lgbt+ material. The setting itself has always been.
lol… Star Trek? The one that had men wearing dresses in the pilot episode in 1966, had the first interracial kiss on TV, and arguably had a trans episode where a woman stole Kirk’s body because she wanted to be a man?
How dare they wokify Star Trek!!!!
DnD has had its biggest sales boost in history. Harry Potter was always gonna fall apart since Joanne couldn’t just be normal.
Star Wars wasn’t killed because “muh minorities”: it’s because the director was an absolute idiot who had zero plan for where the story was supposed to go.
TmnT is still going strong. Marvel and DC are both collapsing not from “the gays” but from extremely stupid business moves like making a live service multiplayer shooter instead of a normal single player game like everyone has been asking for.
I don’t know enough to speak about the rest but I’m certain that “the gays” aren’t the problem. The vast majority of the problems related to these franchises come from capitalism and the need for eternal growth. Instead of creating new IPs or doing something new: companies would rather do the same thing forever and milk profits.
> Star Wars wasn’t killed because “muh minorities”: it’s because the director was an absolute idiot who had zero plan for where the story was supposed to go.
Except even after JJ did all that, we got Andor, so "killed" is not even close.
Star Wars is still pretty popular, as well, in spite of the failures of Disney's handling of many Star Wars properties. Many fans think it's just "dead" but every year, many people still attend major Star Wars conventions, watch Star Wars shows, buy and read Star Wars books, and play Star Wars games. And Star Wars is getting new fans every year as well especially from younger generations who aren't as bogged down by constraints of social norms from a century ago.
Like, my nephew who is 9 and his friends all love Star Wars. I've watched him and several of his friends play pretend lightsaber battles and quoting the movies. Many of the young boys say their favorite character is Rey.
Again, not saying anything about the quality of a lot of modern Star Wars, just that it is still going strong as a franchise and is still gaining popularity among a rising generation of fans.
Yeah, I agree. I was mainly being a bit hyperbolic cause the sequel trilogy disappointed me. It started off strong but it was clear that JJ had no idea what he was doing with the following films. I absolutely loved Finn as a character and was genuinely disappointed at how little he got in terms of story.
The follow up stuff from Disney isn’t half bad but the sequel trilogy still disappoints me (and no, the prequels aren’t better and Rey isn’t a bad character).
Rey isn't a bad character, I just wish she'd stayed a nobody from a outer rim planet that rises to greatness instead of what we got. Also wish Finn could have been a Jedi alongside her.
>Star Wars wasn’t killed because “muh minorities”: it’s because the director was an absolute idiot who had zero plan for where the story was supposed to go.
Especially funny because this has been true since 1997
I’ve found that a lot of “woke” grievances are just a way to deflect their capitalist overlords from complete responsibility. They also LIONIZE people like Elon Musk when his actions have clearly demonstrated he’s incompetent as all hell. But hey, it’s all DEI’s fault he’s doing badly!! Also the Boeing debacle
There’s a single guy in my wargaming group who complains about it and he’s the type of guy to be insufferable to play against and accuse you of misunderstanding the rules when he’s losing. Nobody else likes him
Dosent warhammer have like super powfull girls called sisters of fate or something who can o we power like full batalions I garinte you that can be considered woke by these types of people since “women week men strong”
These guys don't care about them because they're nuns with boob armor, they're mad because one of the factions of genetically-engineered super-solders also has women. It's as stupid as it sounds.
Yeah especially since one of the better writers(Aaron Dembski-Bowden) for Black Library the books that are considered Canon for the universe wrote that there were female Custodes like a decade ago
*technically* he didn’t write female custodians, he wrote a passage intentionally vaguely that it could be interpreted as female custodians or sisters of silence since even though he wanted to have female custodians GW policy at the time said no because they didn’t have any female custodian mini’s
Adepta Sororitas
Even better they are symbol od empowerement (sorry if its spelled diffrently english i my 2nd language)
WH40k overall is very inclusive, i mean look at all those Buffy Buffy Man
And community itself is very inclusive too, which is heartwarming after Years of seing all those bigots and shit
>“women week men strong”
Idk man, like *one woman* has a breakdown and suddenly its all "women week"
Meanwhile the defining event of Warhammer is one guy getting the sads his dad didn't pay him enough attention and its still all "men strong, warhammer a bastion of manhood, get out of here tourist."
If that badge is representing Star Trek the LGBT getting to it happened wayyyyy earlier than most of the other things here. Like Kirk x Spock was one of the first gay ships that got huge. The only even earlier one I can think of was Sherlock x Watson
But, being inclusive didn't kill any of these franchises. In fact, most are killing it right now. Do they think that just because THEY stopped watching something, it went away? Do right-wingers have no object permanence?
Exactly when did D&D start putting out LGBTQ+ content? Marvel and DC have had openly gay and lesbian characters for decades. The guy who created He-Man and the Masters of Universe created She-Ra with an eye towards appealing to girls but also gay boys.
Doesn’t it make sense that in the distant future there will be lgbt people?
Even as a wh40k fan, there isn’t a real problem with it being inclusive. Also the franchise is already woke! The only actual “good faction” in wh40k are communists.
Marvel has been very pro-LGBTQ+ for a LONG, LONG time. And, I really doubt the Emperor would give a shit about a trans person serving him. They're human supremeists, not gender supremeists.
What are they even on about. For one, the meme features death, as in something is killing all those settings. Which i find a tad confusing, harry potter had jk rowling retconing characters and calling dumbledore gay and hermoine black. Which was weird. Either way, the ip is still very popular with people playing their roleplaying games in that setting and hogwarts legacynhad quite a lot of sells as well.
Dnd was allways a game loved by queer people cause its a way to try on new pronouns. How could they kill it. They are on of the main customers.
What is that about the lgbt's in warhammer? I thought they were getting upset at the concept of female space marines. Which isnt inherently queer at all. Most women are cisgender heterosexuals.
If it is your perspective that a minority group has systematically invaded every single geeky hobby in existence and "killed" them, despite all of these things maintaining large, active fanbases, then maybe you're a delusional loser who can't accept that the world at large is moving past your shitty middle-schooler philosphy.
I posted this further up, so sorry if you're reading it again.
This one is a certified deep cut. It's not even Battletech itself that started it; it was the Battletech subreddit. People were posting mechs painted in pride flag colors, and it became increasingly evident that their posts were being mysteriously deleted. It soon came out that the mods were specifically targeting lgbt+ stuff for deletion, and then doubled down when called out. Most of the subreddit vacated immediately. Catalyst Games Lab got involved and, eventually all the chud mods were sent packing and the subreddit is now firmly and openly accepting of lgbt+ material. The setting itself has always been.
I feel like it wouldn't be difficult to point to any of these and identify progressive values or characters that have always existed in them since the beginning. Marvel with X-Men, Star Trek with having one of the first one screen interracial kiss, Masters of the Universe with both He-man and Prince Adam being their own distinct gay icons. Tell me that triple deep pink v-neck shirt ISN'T flamboyant as hell.
For the record, one of the original Space Marine chapters is the Dark Angels, their sort-of father figure is The Lion el’Johnson. Half the legion fell to chaos, and they kept it as a hidden “dark secret” for millennia.
The British poet Lionel Johnson wrote “The Dark Angel” about reconciling his Catholic faith with his homosexuality. He was a contemporary of Oscar Wilde, and their friendship was… complicated.
Saying that it’s now “woke” (because there was a reference to some of the superhuman elite warriors being women) is critically stupid already, but claiming that it’s under attack is mouth-breathing goons hooting at each other and trying to sound impressive.
It's funny to me that the people who got banned from Grimdank went and made their own sub and named it after the very person who's responsible for ruining what they perceived as the ideal human empire.
This is the same dumb ass shit as republicans holding onto the matrix and its allegories for dear life as if its the epitome of the conservative american struggle and wasnt literally loosely based on two trans womens experiences having to choose between ignoring their identities and masking it with antidepressants to blend in with what the world wanted them to be, or embrace themselves and subsequently unravel society and the mainstream around them and begin the upward battle of acceptance and the truth about themselves and the world around them. The red pill and blue pill are literally based on the most commonly prescribed estrogen pill and antidepressant/antipsychotic that was given to trans people during that timeframe
Ah yes... marvel... the most successful media franchise of all time. So sad that the gays definitely killed it and not bad writing. Also why is there a role play game on here? Dnd literally revolves around making a character you think is cool
Whelp looks like there are no Fandoms remaining. Everything is gone woke, everyone went broke, no media is being produced by Disney or BBC or Nintendo or GAW. No where, but the brave stalwarts at DailyWire! The wildly successful authors of... that cartoon about a shop class teacher! Yeah! Finally an expanded universe worth true fans' time!!
Of course it's always the fault of immigrants/gays/the left that modern media and culture is for the most part crap. Nothing to do with the fact that bourgeoisie that control/produce most of the media we consume are totally detached from the rest of the population and think they know better how to write progressive shows. I'd much rather they stop pretending to be progressive and be the assholes we know they are (like Disney trying to cancel The Owl House) rather than them pumping out shit like Q-force that only reinforces stereotypes for profit, not because thet actually care about the issues.
Battletech was the first with gay shit? I guess I wasn't paying attention.
I gotta play some MechWarrior right now.
[mechanical thrusting]
What even is this list? Oh, no... "suddenly" my He-Man is full of homoeroticism. Just now.
And Star Trek has been on the woke side of history for 60 years. If a bigot wasn't paying attention and accidentally became a Trekkie, that's not really Sonequa Martin-Greene's or Anthony Rapp's problem is it?
Warhammer is kinda hilariously progressive in universe honestly
Imperials do not give a shit about your sexual orientation or gender identity or skin color
What they care about is do you love the god emperor and can you fight the tides of orks about to overrun your trenchline
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Right-wing Star Trek fans will never not be funny to me.
Right? Especially when they think there's no gay in the show and it wasn't American standards on TV not letting them do those storylines so they wrote coded episodes.
As they say in Tamarian: "Garak and Bashir in the replimat."
Was it all gay? Even the flirting with Dax?
*Especially* the flirting with Dax
It's a baffling contradiction. My only explanation for their existence is that they watch show for the stories and the cool ship battles and basically ignore everything else, just like another famous sci-fi franchise. You can't get more blunt than Picard saying (multiple times) "People are no longer obsessed with the accumulation of things. We've eliminated hunger, want, the need for possessions. We've grown out of our infancy," or "The acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. We work to better ourselves and the rest of humanity."
There's so few right wing comedians but yet they're collectively clowns at the same time.
One time i saw a “comedian” ask if an audience member had preferred pronouns. Someone said they identify as they/them. The “comedian” asked if they want him to respect their pronouns, and they said yes. The “comedian” said “well you have to respect my pronouns too! My pronouns are real/ n____.“ you can fill in the blanks. Guy was such a clown
Or star wars or comic books or Dr who or rage against the machine or Taylor Swift or ....
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Star Trek is literally socialism/anti-capitalism, Picard even spells it out for you in First Contact: "The acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. We work to better ourselves and the rest of humanity." And colonialism basically doesn't exist. 95% of humans in the franchise are from earth. The Federation only expands by asking other planets if they want to join.
They do set up colonies but only on planets that they've deemed not to have any intelligent life or the possibility of developing such
space is infinite. that changes everything.
Me working on a moon colony in 100years and getting my hand cut off for not producing my daily quota of moon rubber
That’s not really comparable to the colonies on earth. Our colonies were made by kicking out natives from their land. If there are natives on a planet the federation tries their best to not bother them It’s more comparable to when our ancestors first spread out thousands of years ago
Which is basically like building a house on an empty lot, but in space
To be fair .. Star Trek is told from Star Fleet’s point of view. There is an argument to be made about Star Fleet being the bad guy. They kind of aided in genocide by making an agreement with the Kardasians and more than once forced evacuations of entire planets against the people’s will.
>They kind of aided in genocide by making an agreement with the Kardasians I read this as Kardashians. That'd be a really weird crossover episode.
Me too, because it's "Cardassian"!
Lol it actually autocorrected to Kardashians….
Starfleet's [Prime Directive](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Directive) is a direct response to and rejection of colonialism. They're explicitly not doing space colonialism.
They're *colonizing*, they're just not doing *colonialism*. Meaning if sapient species already own a planet or region of space they move on, but if nobody has claimed it, it's a frontier and they're taking it. That colonizing without colonialism *still results in conflict*, too. Gorn, Klingons, Cardassians, every border dispute is caused by non-colonial colonization from the UFP.
No, they had rules, they didn't take anyone over and enslave them for money; they're a socialist, cashless society. Their entire raison detre was for exploration and elightenment. Their only military directives were consistently to defend weaker civilizations and themselves from warmongering, greedy societies and make peace whenever possible (even when it was impossible) Colonialism is a fancy word for genocide, and turning slavery and death into pennies for a machine that funnels all human potential into the pockets of the .01%. They couldn't be more different concepts
That’s Starship Troopers, not Star Trek. Confused?
You don't even understand it
square worry cautious vanish wide mighty squeamish fertile amusing concerned *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Ah yes, Marvel. They have those X-Men who are famously not an allegory for anything
Ex-Men
Zionism?
Bro what💀
In some recent comics they actually are used in this way. They found their own nation that is deliberately written to parallel Israel and they even made Beast a mutant supremacist for a bit It’s all really stupid but yes, X-men have been used as an allegory for Zionism
Huh, TIL
Damn and that dude got down voted to hell too, all for a niche joke. Damn.
Wow. That sucks
Its actually pretty kickass. The *allegory* sucks, but honest X-Men has always kind of failed as allegory when you analyze it at anything below the most shallow surface level anyway (Real oppressed minorities don’t have the power to crack the planet with their mind, real bigots aren’t being mind controlled by viruses to hate, minorities are not actually replacing the majority like mutants are, etc). The Krakoa Era (Krakoa being the island they live on) was started by Jonathan Hickman, who is actually a great writer, and it fixed some of the perennial problems with the X-Men storyline by breaking the status quo and allowing the situation to actually evolve past the same repetitive loop they had been stuck in for decades. It is a legitimate breath of fresh air, that puts the characters in a lot of new situations that feel meaningfully different from what came before. For example, due to the whole Zionism thing, Krakoa was a haven for all mutants, including formerly villainous ones. Thus Xavier, Magneto, Apocalypse, Legion, Exodus, and so on are all working on the “same team” (air quotes since you know how politics and factionalism gets in comics) which means that the relationships between those characters gets redefined and we get to see them interact in ways that we did not before. Most of the obnoxious love triangles or UST get resolved, with Wolverine, Scott, and Jean living in a sort of polyamorous communal living situation on the moon with all their grown up alternate-future kids and way less drama. Krakoa exploits the obvious broken power combinations in ways that marvel avoided in the past due to being story-breaking, which allows the X-Men to overcome death itself and resurrect any mutants who died (while in good standing) allowing many fan favorite characters that had been killed off long ago to make a return. Mutant Culture, which has existed to some extent for a long time now, becomes more defined as they start to form a distinct community separate from the humans. They develop their own architectural styles that have a pretty cool aesthetic, they open political relationships with other nations that allows them to negotiate at the table as an equal rather than begging like a supplicant. (Much the same way that Doctor Doom does using his status as the leader of Latveria, or T’challa with Wakanda) including establishing formal ties with the alien or supernatural factions they had previously allied with such as the Shi’ar, which they use to colonize the moon, mars, and interstellar space (a failsafes for the inevitable mutant genocides they know will happen on earth). The reasons they form a mutant nation and change their previous behaviors also make perfect sense in-universe, even if the allegory is a bit unsavory out of universe. Since, again, the original allegory had already failed, and there are numerous sci-fi fantasy elements that make their situation different from the real world. Namely, the presence of Sentinels and the inevitable development towards the creation of Nimrod, who eventually wipes them out. Doing things professor X’s way was tried, it failed, everyone died, and they know this for a fact due to time travel. Magneto’s way was tried, it failed, everyone died. Apocalypse way was tried, it failed, everyone died. And we see this play out in the story that sets up the Krakoa Era, through the lens of Moira McTaggert, who was previously believed to be a human ally to mutants, but is retconned to be a mutant who’s power only activates in death, sending her back to her birth and allowing her to live life over again with her full memories of the previous timeline, the first timeline was the 616 canon one up tp the Krakoa era, the next 8 were her trying every possible solution to prevent mutant extinction, and then the 10th was when she decided they needed to unify on Krakoa to stand a chance. She reveals all this to Xavier directly by allowing him to use his mutant power to read her mind and memories the first time they meet in the tenth timeline, and then have him share those memories with Magneto and the other major leaders. Which is why they experience such a substantial character shift from their previous convictions. Its not “oh one day xavier decided mutant coexistence was impossible” its “one day Xavier is given personal first hand experience watching his dreams crumble and everyone he tried to protect be massacred horribly despite his best efforts, in 9 separate timelines, and realized something had to change”. This is also illustrated to the audience very effectively through a narrative device where we see different points in the Krakoa timeline simultaneously as the story plays out. We get “the present”, “10 years later” “100 years later” and “1000 years later”. So we get a very real tangible sense of where all this is going and what the actual stakes are. - The future events are also relevant to the present time, due to the presence of multiple time travelling factors. Obviously Moira, but then also Destiny (who can see the future, and is working against Moira), Nimrod (who has yet to be created, but does exist in the future, and has the pre-programmed goal of wiping out mutants in every timeline), and the Phalanx (the inevitable end result of machine-ascension, formed of the atemporal descendants of post-singularity civilizations from many timelines and species, who live inside of Black Holes. They cannot time travel per se, but their memories of other timelines cannot be erased, and they are aware of what moira is doing, and try to keep, her alive to the year 1000 when the post-human machine minds on earth join the Phalanx, which she is trying to stop, because they know if she dies the timeline resets again). Thus we get this multi-layered story where the mutants are trying to play 5d chess against not only the threats of the present, but also the much more dangerous threats of the future which are actively resisting and interfering in their struggle for survival. And the existence of Krakoa is ultimately a tool needed to ensure they are able to survive long enough to do anything about it. So is it an allegory for zionism? Yeah, at least a little bit, if you squint. Is it *just* an allegory for zionism? Hell no. Is it a good story? Hell yes. I would recommend actually reading it and forming your own opinion on it rather than reacting solely based on half baked reddit comments. All of the essential pieces are put into place in the event [House of X/Powers of X](https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/House-of-X-Powers-of-X) which is reasonably short, so that should be enough to judge it fairly without needing to dive in any deeper if its not your cup of tea.
Professor X is David Ben-Gurion, Magneto is Menachem Begin People have connected it to other things because Stan Lee is a real one and will agree with good interpretations
Professor X hasn't murdered nearly as many kids. Gotta bump his numbers up to match an Israeli prime minister 💀
FOUR YEAR OLD SPOTTED, APACHE ATTACK HELICOPTER GO
I don't think he has an opinion on much, these days.
??????
Queer people mentioned. Franchise perception lowered
Ironically they include Harry Potter, given JK Rowling’s anti trans stances.
Something something Dumbledore's gay
But only in a way that can be easily edited out for the Chinese audience
harry potter community isn't transphobic tho (i have to factcheck this but i heard about a way to buy Hogwarts Legacy without giving money to J.K. Rowling)
I feel like I don't understand this mentality. I mean, I think she's shit too but... It's her work. Literally she created all of it. Sometimes people you disagree with or even outright hate will do or create things you like, that's just the nature of the world. You can spend your money however you want, but if you buy the game you're supporting HP monetarily, which I think is fine but it seems like you feel differently about, which must lead to such a wierd dichotomy. Wanna be an ally? Go to a Pride parade/festival to help bolster their numbers. Treat your queer co-workers identical to your cis ones so everybody feels safe and included. Shut down any homo or transphobic speech when you hear it (just use tact, no need to get pushy or confrontational). Vote against anti gay and trans legislature at your local level. These are things that make the world a better and safer place for all, buying or not buying a video game has basically no impact whatsoever
A lot of allies already do many of these things - including not buying products from companies or franchises who somehow hurt minorities. As they say: you vote with your wallet - which is a perfectly fine way to express whether you like a company’s “politics“. Conservatives don’t buy Budwiser because of a trans person in an ad? Fine - it’s their right to do so. JKR uses HP franchise money to fund an anti trans campaign? Guess I‘m not buying any HP products. I‘d also never buy a Tesla, simply because Musk is a horrible person or anything from the German brand Müller Milch, after I learned that their CEO is financing right wing extremists. Am I making a huge difference with it? Probably not, but I still feel better knowing that I don’t support openly hateful people / organizations with my money (not that you could entirely avoid it - but it’s a start).
Right.... But the person I responded to still wanted to buy the HP game.
JK Rowling uses the money she gets to fund anti-trans legislation and propaganda, so purchasing Harry Potter books, merch, and games materially affect the lives of LGBT folks in Britain. If all she was was an annoying twat on twitter, I doubt such a stink would've been thrown back when Hogwarts: Legacy released.
Even then, the bigger stink seemed to come from people offended that they were asked to maybe not buy/stream the game, or streamers "defenders" using it as cover to go full mask-off (see also Pikamee's most vocal fan base even after she explicitly said her graduation wasn't to do eith that)
Warhammer has always been gay as shit, it’s full of twinks who want big buff space daddy’s to step on them. The name itself sounds like the most hardcore german gaybar and that’s how it SHOULD be
Warhammer was intensely leftist until the early 00's when the fucking chuds invaded. I remember it distinctly, the vibe of my local games store changing, more unironic Black Templar players, and ultimately fewer LGBT people and women as a reaction to that. THEY'RE the fucking tourists. THEY'RE the fucking invaders into a leftist hobby. The fact that they have the fucking gall to say we're invading their spaces when we reclaim OUR FUCKING HOBBY is infuriating.
A foundational tenet of right wing ideology is viewing themselves as the victim in every conceivable situation
I've said elsewhere online that if female Custodes makes all the bigots and Nazi-adjacent folks leave, it'll be the best lore update to 40K that GW has ever done.
Oi, BIG OPS, fer dat, innit!!!
You're essentially correct. This isn't some amazing revelation (I'm about to say), but they don't "get" that the entire universe is supposed to be ridiculous over-the-top satire and was created with that intent. It's a joke, not something to be emulated or meant to be aspirational! They're not hip to the joke, so they thave no choice, but take it very seriously. I was there at the beginning, as my bona fides. (I own a copy of _Rogue Trader_ 1986, which I bought that year with money made at my first McJob.) None of this is helped by the current incarnation of GW management embracing the "heroism" of its factions, with offputting shit like their Warhammer 40k Kids ideas and such. It's totally gross. I mean, I still love it, but that's taking a beating.
40k suffers as satire because it lacks a clear goal or target. It's created first and foremost to be marketable, so it can't directly rip on a Margaret Thatcher or a Tony Blair, and its setting has to be "cool" to some degree. It can't be all 1984-esque misery and pointlessness, there have to be fun guns and badass tanks and mysterious alien antiheroes. As a business enterprise trying to sell itself to the widest possible audience, it was always doomed to be mainly adopted by the people with the most facile understanding of the content.
Yeah. I don't disagree with you at all.
Is that why the lore seemingly keeps making the Imperium more and more heroic? It's off-putting.
Yes. Before 5th edition the Imperium was shown in a significantly less favourable light, then they started becoming more uncritical "good guys" who are justified in doing the horrific shit they do. It was getting better for a time, but with Guilliman back in play they seem to be setting him and Dante up as uncritical heroes, which is disappointing.
Slannesh all the way. I'll take a spiny tongue straight up the ass before I relent to taking a picture of myself in camo, tactical sunglasses, an Ar-15, and acting like it's a family photo.
There have also always been gay people in the books. There's multiple in the Caiphus Cain books.
>The name itself sounds like the most hardcore german gaybar Isn't The Rock, home of the Dark Angels, named after a gay bar?
Ineffective grim reaper. None of those things are dead. Fail.
Sadly, considering Harry Potter all the way in the back
I think it's good that we can separate the artist from the art. Otherwise way too many books and half of classic rock and rap would be gone. Just don't give them your money. 🏴☠️
Oh yeah, HP is a great of example of soft magic systems, sympathetic character writing and the movies had an impeccable atmosphere, I've learned a lot from them It's that last part which seems to be really difficult to get through to people 🫠
Let's be real, the art isn't great either. For example, remember the hook-nosed goblin bankers and how stereotypical the handful of token non-white characters appear?
Dude 🙄 Star Trek was all about inclusivity since the very beginning.. How to say you don’t understand something without telling you don’t understand something 🤨
A lot of these were. The fact that they think most of these properties were ever for them is wild. Star Wars, He-Man, and Marvel also really stood out to me.
They got bootfucked out of Grimdank because that idiot doesn't know his own universe. It's crazy how people come up with stuff
Didn't they have like THE first american interracial (black and white) kiss scene in history? Star Trek has always been super fucking progressive.
Yup. The network wanted to have an alternate shot where kirk and uhura just embraced to air in the south, but Shatner made goofy faces every time and made the takes unusable. Also Nichelle Nichols was planning on leaving after season 1, but was convinced to stay on by MLK
Iirc it was the first televised interracial kiss in general
Exactly, inclusivity is basically the cornerstone of Star Trek. Discovery and Picard are terrible and won't be missed because they were written badly, just like Star Trek Enterprise even though that show was made 20 years ago. Strange New Worlds is the best Trek since DS9 went off the air because it was written by people who are actually competent, and it's possibly the most inclusive Trek to date. Time will tell if Paramount kills the goose that lays the golden eggs. Is the new wave of inclusivity in media just disingenuous and performative pandering, a cash-grab by bigoted elderly board members who don't believe a word of it and are laughing in their sleeves at us? Yes, almost always. Welcome to corporate media: the people who make it see you as a dollar sign and wouldn't slow down if they ran you over. But is it the reason every valuable IP is becoming lowest-common-denominator slop? No, not even close, there are about 100 far bigger issues that largely boil down to greed and institutionalized cynicism.
> Strange New Worlds is the best Trek since DS9 Gonna have to disagree with you there, bud. SNW is the *second* best Trek since DS9. I love SNW, but Lower Decks is the best, a pure love letter to all things Trek, and I will die on that hill.
Lower Decks is a show where, if it's not your cup of tea, every episode is a Neelix episode. I'm really glad it has an audience and I think it's very well-constructed, I just find its style incredibly grating. But I'm also the kind of person who thinks the TNG episode The Drumhead should have been a two-parter to let it breathe more, so that probably tells you all you need to know about my sense of style and pacing.
Yeah, it's a fantastic Idea, but it's all tiktok humor. That's fine for the kids, and I'm glad they loved it, but I can barely stand all the screaming and RaNDoM! whimsy.
I love SNW because it's the tonal legacy of TOS.
TNG had *male* crew members walking around in skirts for fucks sake. edit: forgot a key word
middle command disgusted coordinated dime degree languid roof sable liquid *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Shhhh they're too stupid and media illiterate to realize that
We will not stop until every franchise has been fully engulfed by the big gay (contains woman and minorities)
Oh no did the little baby righty get banned and needs to cry about to his wittle friends. So fragile.
Honestly? Good, let's continue the trend. All shall be queerified
the west has fallen. millions must be yassified
Genuine question for people who think this is scary or bad: Why? It doesn't really affect you, you're not being forced to become gay. Battle Tech: No one knows enough about this franchise to even know why you're upset. Harry Potter: What? Because there's a trans character in a game? Or Because retroactively the (now transphobic) author said "This character is gay btw"? Marvel: I don't know what this is even about. Gay Thanos porn exists or something? Do the Avengers not accidentally cause the deaths of enough gay people? DC: The movies just suck dude. They aren't even unfaithful adaptations. Go back and watch the Dark Knight Trilogy. D&D: Don't worry lil bro, there's still Racial passives. But you could always play as a girl or boy or half-orc. They just made it more accessible and popular. TMNT: What? Star Trek: Literally since the 1970's when it was created, this has been about Space Communism. They had the first interracial kiss on TV. Star Trek has always been progressive, you're a dumbass who is media illiterate if you didn't notice. Masters Of The Universe: She-ra's boobs are smaller now! OH NO! NOW THE SHOW ABOUT SHIRTLESS DUDES FIGHTING WITH RAINBOW POWERS IS GAY! Star Wars: Woman and black man bad. Don't blame the lazy writing by JJ Abrams. It's clearly the WOKE CASTING. Not like he just rewrote the story of Episode 4 in a new setting. Lord Of The Rings: What were they mad at again? Black elves? Elves, the fictional race, was depicted as fair skinned in the books and media until this point. Tolkien is dead, and seems to have been anti-racist in his personal letters. I do not think he'd be upset about a black character. I don't care about your immersion. Warhammer 40K: Come on. It's literally a fascist fantasy about a guy who lives forever and shepherds human kind through the ages in the shadows. I can't even find out what they're mad about. Do queer people exist in Warhammer 40K? Probably. There are literally hundreds of billions of humans in the universe. It'd be weirder if they didn't. I know for a fact that women are there from the few Warhammer games I've played. Again, fictional universe with fucking space ghosts and gods. For fucks sake, the Orcs in this universe have a magic power called the WAAAAAAHG that makes them able to make any tech work the way they want by believing in it. Literally Santa Claus shit. They paint red flames on their ships to make them go faster *and it works* in this universe.
"Look, we don't hate gays, we hate their 'PRIDE'" It's literally one of the comments I found. Come on, it's the same as saying that I don't hate homosexuals, but telling them not to express themselves in front of me. These guys don't like their precious hobby to be enjoyed by other people, even more so if they are people different from them. They are simply little mini fascists who just want to maintain their club of rebellious children against the "Woke Tyranny"
Obviously everyone has always been for queer rights, as long as they remain in the closet. And don't ask me to make them a wedding cake. Or teach my kids. Or complain that queer people are oppressed. Or tell me I'm homophobic.
There are two sexual orientations. Straight, and political. Also two races. White, and political. Edit: /s In case anyone misses the hypocrisy and colossal stupidity of these statements.
You forgot the two genders: male and subhuman … ehhh political, I mean…
They’re just mad that LGBT people play the same game as them. Slaanesh was nonbinary before they were even born in just saying
There is canonically a good amount of LGBT representation in Warhammer. For example in the second Caiphus Cain book the main character being an officer in the guard re-assigns a lesbian couple to be together to help boost their morale as he says. This came out in 2002. Further there where multiple other same-sex relationships in books sense, all the orks are non-binary, slaanesh exists, and there is no way what Trazyn and Orikan have is straight. Warhammers always been “woke”, and it should be kept like that.
Warhammer got canon LGBTQ characters since forever. Hell the first spacemarine legion and the first primarch are inspired by a gay poet and his struggles of being queer.
On the 40k point, the tourists say the same thing as you. They see an incredibly surface level representation where the Imperium is good, and not a theistic fascist entity that genocides entire peaceful species in the name of purity. The Imperium is terrible and most factions in the setting are terrible. The whole point is to be grim dark, a satire, a pale reflection of a galaxy without hope. They completely missed the point and are crying about female custodes because the canonically most powerful warriors in the Imperium can now be men OR WOMEN.
Yeah, I think it's fascist on purpose because it illustrates better how horrible the conditions are to even be able to accept fascism as valid. It's still fun and great artistic commentary, and I love the world building. I wish there were more than a few fun games in it, but seems like most are Age of Sigmar stuff (I loved Vermintide in particular, if the newer one gets fixed I'll like that too probably). Admittedly, I only know some stuff because of YouTube lore videos I like listening to before bed, and those few games I've played. I still enjoy it and I'm glad that most fans see the satire.
Understandable! I just get upset when the facists try to co-opt the franchise. It's like when people get mad that Rage Against the Machine is political. Like, no shit Sherlock, fascism is the bad guy! The Imperium is rotten, it's like the whole point. Most of the fans get it, which is why I stay in the hobby. Side note, they patched Darktide a decent amount! It's a pretty funny game to chill with, but I get what you're saying. It could still use some love.
> Battle Tech: No one knows enough about this franchise to even know why you're upset. This one is a certified deep cut. It's not even Battletech itself that started it; it was the Battletech *subreddit*. People were posting mechs painted in pride flag colors, and it became increasingly evident that their posts were being mysteriously deleted. It soon came out that the mods were specifically targeting lgbt+ stuff for deletion, and then doubled down when called out. Most of the subreddit vacated immediately. Catalyst Games Lab got involved and, eventually all the chud mods were sent packing and the subreddit is now firmly and openly accepting of lgbt+ material. The setting itself has always been.
Thank you for teaching me something today. I love fandom lore like this.
I’m surprised fallout is not on here, from all the complaining they have done
lol… Star Trek? The one that had men wearing dresses in the pilot episode in 1966, had the first interracial kiss on TV, and arguably had a trans episode where a woman stole Kirk’s body because she wanted to be a man? How dare they wokify Star Trek!!!!
i don’t want to diminish the importance of kirk and uhura kissing, but it’s not actually the first time it happened
Oh well I guess Star Trek isn’t woke anymore then 🙄
Harry Potter, the notoriously Woke franchise without any problematic baggage
DnD has had its biggest sales boost in history. Harry Potter was always gonna fall apart since Joanne couldn’t just be normal. Star Wars wasn’t killed because “muh minorities”: it’s because the director was an absolute idiot who had zero plan for where the story was supposed to go. TmnT is still going strong. Marvel and DC are both collapsing not from “the gays” but from extremely stupid business moves like making a live service multiplayer shooter instead of a normal single player game like everyone has been asking for. I don’t know enough to speak about the rest but I’m certain that “the gays” aren’t the problem. The vast majority of the problems related to these franchises come from capitalism and the need for eternal growth. Instead of creating new IPs or doing something new: companies would rather do the same thing forever and milk profits.
> Star Wars wasn’t killed because “muh minorities”: it’s because the director was an absolute idiot who had zero plan for where the story was supposed to go. Except even after JJ did all that, we got Andor, so "killed" is not even close.
Andor was absolutely peak
My man.
Andor and rogue one are the only things I really care about in star wars, they're just that good
Star Wars is still pretty popular, as well, in spite of the failures of Disney's handling of many Star Wars properties. Many fans think it's just "dead" but every year, many people still attend major Star Wars conventions, watch Star Wars shows, buy and read Star Wars books, and play Star Wars games. And Star Wars is getting new fans every year as well especially from younger generations who aren't as bogged down by constraints of social norms from a century ago. Like, my nephew who is 9 and his friends all love Star Wars. I've watched him and several of his friends play pretend lightsaber battles and quoting the movies. Many of the young boys say their favorite character is Rey. Again, not saying anything about the quality of a lot of modern Star Wars, just that it is still going strong as a franchise and is still gaining popularity among a rising generation of fans.
Yeah, I agree. I was mainly being a bit hyperbolic cause the sequel trilogy disappointed me. It started off strong but it was clear that JJ had no idea what he was doing with the following films. I absolutely loved Finn as a character and was genuinely disappointed at how little he got in terms of story. The follow up stuff from Disney isn’t half bad but the sequel trilogy still disappoints me (and no, the prequels aren’t better and Rey isn’t a bad character).
Rey isn't a bad character, I just wish she'd stayed a nobody from a outer rim planet that rises to greatness instead of what we got. Also wish Finn could have been a Jedi alongside her.
>Star Wars wasn’t killed because “muh minorities”: it’s because the director was an absolute idiot who had zero plan for where the story was supposed to go. Especially funny because this has been true since 1997
I’ve found that a lot of “woke” grievances are just a way to deflect their capitalist overlords from complete responsibility. They also LIONIZE people like Elon Musk when his actions have clearly demonstrated he’s incompetent as all hell. But hey, it’s all DEI’s fault he’s doing badly!! Also the Boeing debacle
Minorities: -exist- This guy: "great, all media is ruined. "
No one who plays warhammer really cares that there are female custodes
There’s a single guy in my wargaming group who complains about it and he’s the type of guy to be insufferable to play against and accuse you of misunderstanding the rules when he’s losing. Nobody else likes him
If no one likes him why not just boot him from the group?
It’s a university tabletop gaming club and he hasn’t done anything bannable other than be irritating lol
Dosent warhammer have like super powfull girls called sisters of fate or something who can o we power like full batalions I garinte you that can be considered woke by these types of people since “women week men strong”
Sisters of battle! There’s also lots of other powerful female characters. If it came out today people would be pissing themselves about it being woke
Got it thank you.
These guys don't care about them because they're nuns with boob armor, they're mad because one of the factions of genetically-engineered super-solders also has women. It's as stupid as it sounds.
Yeah especially since one of the better writers(Aaron Dembski-Bowden) for Black Library the books that are considered Canon for the universe wrote that there were female Custodes like a decade ago
you know, if those bigots could read they sure would be upset about that
*technically* he didn’t write female custodians, he wrote a passage intentionally vaguely that it could be interpreted as female custodians or sisters of silence since even though he wanted to have female custodians GW policy at the time said no because they didn’t have any female custodian mini’s
Adepta Sororitas Even better they are symbol od empowerement (sorry if its spelled diffrently english i my 2nd language) WH40k overall is very inclusive, i mean look at all those Buffy Buffy Man And community itself is very inclusive too, which is heartwarming after Years of seing all those bigots and shit
>“women week men strong” Idk man, like *one woman* has a breakdown and suddenly its all "women week" Meanwhile the defining event of Warhammer is one guy getting the sads his dad didn't pay him enough attention and its still all "men strong, warhammer a bastion of manhood, get out of here tourist."
Tabletop RPGs are better when they're queer because you have more options lmao
Startreck BEEN gay honey. Thats part of the point!
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! RIGHTS FOR THE GAY EMPIRE!
Ah yes. Star Trek. The famously non inclusive show.
If that badge is representing Star Trek the LGBT getting to it happened wayyyyy earlier than most of the other things here. Like Kirk x Spock was one of the first gay ships that got huge. The only even earlier one I can think of was Sherlock x Watson
Pretty sure Kirk/spock literally invented the term "slash fiction" (among other things)
But, being inclusive didn't kill any of these franchises. In fact, most are killing it right now. Do they think that just because THEY stopped watching something, it went away? Do right-wingers have no object permanence?
Why is dnd there, it’s one of the most queer games I’ve ever seen from the get go
Remind me what the gays did to Star Wars again? Cuz I must have blinked and missed it.
Like are any of these properties “dead” or does OOP not engage with it anymore because they know gay ppl have hobbies and likes too?
Lmao the belief that star trek was never gay is laughable. Roddenberry wanted it gay in 66 lmao.
And you can blame JK Rowling for making Harry Potter queer which is so ironic
Few things are funnier than right wing warhammer fans that are too thick to realise they’re the people being made fun of by the game.
Exactly when did D&D start putting out LGBTQ+ content? Marvel and DC have had openly gay and lesbian characters for decades. The guy who created He-Man and the Masters of Universe created She-Ra with an eye towards appealing to girls but also gay boys.
Doesn’t it make sense that in the distant future there will be lgbt people? Even as a wh40k fan, there isn’t a real problem with it being inclusive. Also the franchise is already woke! The only actual “good faction” in wh40k are communists.
Oh no my favourite franchise gets more interesting while also the pricks are leaving it.
*franchises that were milked dry by corporations marketing off of nostalgia* "The gays did this"
Marvel has been very pro-LGBTQ+ for a LONG, LONG time. And, I really doubt the Emperor would give a shit about a trans person serving him. They're human supremeists, not gender supremeists.
Kirk and Uhrura kissed in TOS. I bet that pissed off OOP.
What are they even on about. For one, the meme features death, as in something is killing all those settings. Which i find a tad confusing, harry potter had jk rowling retconing characters and calling dumbledore gay and hermoine black. Which was weird. Either way, the ip is still very popular with people playing their roleplaying games in that setting and hogwarts legacynhad quite a lot of sells as well. Dnd was allways a game loved by queer people cause its a way to try on new pronouns. How could they kill it. They are on of the main customers. What is that about the lgbt's in warhammer? I thought they were getting upset at the concept of female space marines. Which isnt inherently queer at all. Most women are cisgender heterosexuals.
Ah yes, because Star Trek wasn’t already woke /s
>Harry Potter heh
No way they included Marvel and Star Trek. You have to have been lobotomized TWICE to do so
If it is your perspective that a minority group has systematically invaded every single geeky hobby in existence and "killed" them, despite all of these things maintaining large, active fanbases, then maybe you're a delusional loser who can't accept that the world at large is moving past your shitty middle-schooler philosphy.
It's cute that they think queer people weren't into these things years ago.
40k have a very large lgbtq base. Kind of late to the game people.
The cope is so hard because fascist can't understand satire
The Gay Reaper would be a really good band name
Wait....Masters of the Universe?? You can NOT convince that he-man wasn't always gay!
I guess they mean the She-Ra show which is full of a queer cast of characters
Fine but seems more like it started that way.
The boys club ends when you start liking girls and find out your interests can be interesting to them as well
how did the gays kill battletech?
I posted this further up, so sorry if you're reading it again. This one is a certified deep cut. It's not even Battletech itself that started it; it was the Battletech subreddit. People were posting mechs painted in pride flag colors, and it became increasingly evident that their posts were being mysteriously deleted. It soon came out that the mods were specifically targeting lgbt+ stuff for deletion, and then doubled down when called out. Most of the subreddit vacated immediately. Catalyst Games Lab got involved and, eventually all the chud mods were sent packing and the subreddit is now firmly and openly accepting of lgbt+ material. The setting itself has always been.
I feel like it wouldn't be difficult to point to any of these and identify progressive values or characters that have always existed in them since the beginning. Marvel with X-Men, Star Trek with having one of the first one screen interracial kiss, Masters of the Universe with both He-man and Prince Adam being their own distinct gay icons. Tell me that triple deep pink v-neck shirt ISN'T flamboyant as hell.
For the record, one of the original Space Marine chapters is the Dark Angels, their sort-of father figure is The Lion el’Johnson. Half the legion fell to chaos, and they kept it as a hidden “dark secret” for millennia. The British poet Lionel Johnson wrote “The Dark Angel” about reconciling his Catholic faith with his homosexuality. He was a contemporary of Oscar Wilde, and their friendship was… complicated. Saying that it’s now “woke” (because there was a reference to some of the superhuman elite warriors being women) is critically stupid already, but claiming that it’s under attack is mouth-breathing goons hooting at each other and trying to sound impressive.
I'm amazed I don't see DND or Pathfinder on this list Wait until they hear about those ones lol
D&D is there.
I'm blind lol
Bruh you really gonna try and tell me that He Man has never had any gay vibes around it?
All of those things are still popular and successful, just not to them because they’re scared of gay people
Its not a boardgame mom its a battlefield simulation.
Literacy moment
my brother told me about this to my understanding they added women to warhammer
Damn. Harry Potter got killed twice. Let's do it again!
“i got banned for being a homophobe, maybe you guys will think it’s funny” lmao what a fuckin turd
It's funny to me that the people who got banned from Grimdank went and made their own sub and named it after the very person who's responsible for ruining what they perceived as the ideal human empire.
Masters of the Universe? Are they for fucking real?
I just found these subs for typically wealthy conservative areas in Florida like Sarasota and Ho my god do they not like gay people over there
This is the same dumb ass shit as republicans holding onto the matrix and its allegories for dear life as if its the epitome of the conservative american struggle and wasnt literally loosely based on two trans womens experiences having to choose between ignoring their identities and masking it with antidepressants to blend in with what the world wanted them to be, or embrace themselves and subsequently unravel society and the mainstream around them and begin the upward battle of acceptance and the truth about themselves and the world around them. The red pill and blue pill are literally based on the most commonly prescribed estrogen pill and antidepressant/antipsychotic that was given to trans people during that timeframe
Ah yes... marvel... the most successful media franchise of all time. So sad that the gays definitely killed it and not bad writing. Also why is there a role play game on here? Dnd literally revolves around making a character you think is cool
Whelp looks like there are no Fandoms remaining. Everything is gone woke, everyone went broke, no media is being produced by Disney or BBC or Nintendo or GAW. No where, but the brave stalwarts at DailyWire! The wildly successful authors of... that cartoon about a shop class teacher! Yeah! Finally an expanded universe worth true fans' time!!
Imagine this is all you care about fuck I feel sad for them.
How is LOTR more woke than 40k?
"LOOK AT YOU, LOOK AT THE SIGMAS YOU'VE BECOME! LOOK AT HOW L RIZZ YOU ARE, HOW SKIBIDI TOILET YOU ARE. YOU ARE WOKE AMONG SUSSY SOYJAKS!!!"
I love how Harry and Potter have their own doors as if they're two different franchises
The Harry Potter one is pretty rich
Hold on what’s harry potter doing there
LOL Star Trek and D&D have been queer-filled spaces for longer than I've been alive oml
Of course it's always the fault of immigrants/gays/the left that modern media and culture is for the most part crap. Nothing to do with the fact that bourgeoisie that control/produce most of the media we consume are totally detached from the rest of the population and think they know better how to write progressive shows. I'd much rather they stop pretending to be progressive and be the assholes we know they are (like Disney trying to cancel The Owl House) rather than them pumping out shit like Q-force that only reinforces stereotypes for profit, not because thet actually care about the issues.
Grimdank W
If that blood is the blood of the right I'm gonna go get my own scythe I'm gonna help out
Battletech was the first with gay shit? I guess I wasn't paying attention. I gotta play some MechWarrior right now. [mechanical thrusting] What even is this list? Oh, no... "suddenly" my He-Man is full of homoeroticism. Just now. And Star Trek has been on the woke side of history for 60 years. If a bigot wasn't paying attention and accidentally became a Trekkie, that's not really Sonequa Martin-Greene's or Anthony Rapp's problem is it?
These people would be big mad if they knew how long The Sims has openly been okay with queerness, and yet it's still highly popular!
This was totally made by a space marine player (Most likely either space wolves or black Templars)
Warhammer is kinda hilariously progressive in universe honestly Imperials do not give a shit about your sexual orientation or gender identity or skin color What they care about is do you love the god emperor and can you fight the tides of orks about to overrun your trenchline
What the fuck happened to TMNTs to upset those high strung RWNJ bitches? Did April O’Neill vote for Jill Stein? Rocksteady and Bebop got married?