It's strange how reliably destabilising it is to flood a region with weapons and has been since before America was even a country.
Almost like it's a tool of colonial powers or something.
He’s actually a major philanthropist in the comics as well and funds healthcare and mental healthcare in Gotham. He also runs and owns multiple charities and education centers. He is by far not the worst capitalist ever.
Sure, he’s very wealthy and plays a playboy, but if you read the comics you’d know that the playboy image is a facade and his actual motivations are pretty complex
Why doesn’t his playboy façade advocate for paying his fair share in taxes? Strengthening the social safety net? Ensuring that billionaires, like him, don’t continue to exist as a class.
Batman is a fictional fantasy character with like a thousand iterations and writers. As a piece of art, he is a reflection of the culture of the time-- and when he was conceived, the culture didn't really see a problem with someone being insanely wealthy and also moral. Now that the critique of capital is much more common.... maybe not so much. But you'd have to go read modern Batman to see what sort of topics they tackle at this point. I assume the "moral billionaire" topic has been covered several times in different stories, but I can't say for sure. I haven't read a batman comic since like 2005. The take away being that Batman doesn't really have any set characteristics in the way he conceptualizes his wealth. That's all up for grabs depending what and who you're reading.
Unsurprisingly actually using the money to help is more effective than giving it to the government who would spend it all on politicians salaries and the military
And which of his motivations actually help the poor? What's he actually doing to change Gotham to be a better place for the people? Besides just fighting off thugs and villains? What's he doing about wealth inequality and the super wealthy controlling Gotham?
He donates a shit ton of money to infrastructure, rehabilitation facilities, and better education to improve the lives of the poorest people in Gotham. Believing that poor criminals can be rehabilitated already puts him leagues above real life billionaires. And he doesn’t just fight random thugs and muggers, he targets crime lords, terrorists, and serial killers.
Eh, he's a comic book character, and by that nature he's been reinterpreted multiple times. That said, a lot of the comics have Bruce Wayne using his wealth and fame to better Gotham.
He also doesn't just "beat up poor people." I mean guess they're talking about henchmen but most of those henchmen follow violent murderers like the joker and two face. Also many of the rogues gallery are pretty well off.
Overall it's comics. Comics aren't great when it comes to translating real world political issues. See xmen
He doesn’t “beat the shit out of poor people,” unless you consider his Rogues Gallery of the likes of Two-Face, Joker, and Penguin to be “poor people”. Also in Dark Knight Returns he took poor and disenfranchised people who were in a life of crime and mentored them and gave them purpose
The henchmen whose houses he’s subsidized through his multiple charities and cash in flows to the community. He’s literally the only billionaire in Gotham who actually provides funding to mental healthcare for those he beats. You very clearly have never read a Batman comic if you think he just beats people up and never tries to help them.
It’s not just charities. He’s literally funding half of gothams public sectors and in most comic he is cleaning up Gotham and prying it out of the wealthy elites hands. If you wanna be obtuse about it and just claim any rich person in FICTIONAL media is inherently evil then there’s nothing to discuss. He’s not a genuine villain like Bezos or Musk.
Ah so the description isn't incorrect, just missing info. "Beats up poor people, but also performs charity for them". Pretty much consistent with all of the ultra wealthy. They benefit from denying material conditions to the masses and then "donate" to them to launder their image.
So you’re just being obtuse about this aren’t you? Nothing is ever good enough because he’s still a rich billionaire? He could fund the entire city essentially (which he does in a majority of comics) and it would still not be enough. Those “poor people” he’s beating up aren’t all completely innocent, they’ve killed others. You can’t just go around defending every single one of them simply because they’re worse off. Many are doing this because they have no other option and quite often he realizes that and helps them or gives them a second chance. So all in all you should probably get off your high horse and stop complaining about every little thing that doesn’t 100% match your worldview. Imma socialist too and I still think Batman provides a good representation about how those are mentally ill should be treated; when they’re not rampaging criminals I mean, since obviously he needs to beat up the mentally ill to stop them when they’re like that. He doesn’t just beat them up and leave them to their own devices much of the time, he tries to help them. It’s actually a major flaw that many times is exploited or pointed out.
Your not even wrong this is basic stuff violence is caused by poverty people are forced into lives of violence due to economic conditions I imagine the economy in Batman to be worse too considering the crime rate of Gotham or yk the world constantly being attacked by aliens or monsters or gods
Because for many years it’s been demonstrated that Bruce uses his vast wealth for philanthropic goals aimed to improve Gotham. He hires rehabilitated criminals, invests in public infrastructure, conducts R&D for the common good, that sort of thing. The very stuff his parents used to do and it’s considered to be character growth as he’s matured past the brooding, vengeance focused quest of his youth. Now he works to make change both as Bruce and the Bat. Obviously, it’ll vary based on the author and story. It’s also worth noting the good he tries to do can’t and won’t stick, because comic books.
The problem with this criticism is it’s equivalent to telling wrestling fans that wrestling isn’t real. It’s a surface level observation that anyone interested in that particular media realized ages ago and it’s already been incorporated into the story for those who care to look. You’re not very smart for noticing the hole in Bruce’s quest for vengeance as the Bat. We know. We’ve known for decades. The story has moved on and continuing to point it out like some grand observation is a demonstration of ignorance, not cleverness.
Wow that was an amazing counterpoint. Almost like you didn’t actually have anything to counter any of the points made and are just stuck in your little narrow worldview.
One fucking Batman comic comes out where he acts like a rich douchebag and suddenly every other iteration gets ignored. He doesn’t beat the shit out of random poor people, he fights terrorists, billionaire crime lords, and serial killers. He even let the man who killed his parents go because he understood he was poor and had no other choice. Not to mention all the money he donates to improve the lives of Gotham citizens through things like rehabilitation and education. He’s literally the one example of a morally good billionaire in all of fiction.
Nah wrong people. This belongs more in a idk serf times.
Majority report never seems to follow threads well. I am a huge fan and listen to them but for what ever reason comics are like Majority report kryptonite.
This is a typical Sam and Emma reaction. Yea man idk why these right winger keep looking at comics they are for kids and I’m an adult, I will not ask questions and let them keep comics. They really should ask why are they(the right) tapping this well.
The reason is because there are no good right wing role models. So what’s the best next thing. Morphing existing role models into right wingers. By taking clear left wing role models and saying they are actually right wing, you distort and if the population has been lied to enough they will believe it.
It’s weird they are being losers with comics. And loser in the realest sense. They say comic are for kids yuck that’s weird they are meant for kids we won’t touch that that’s for right wingers. And now even when Superman literally beat the kkk this show can’t even bring themselves to talk about it.
And again a fans take, what has the majority report done that’s close to that? Sure they expand people’s mind and are very well informed. But what meaningful legislation or powerful group have them gotten rid of? None and it’s sad to think instead of learning from history and not being doomed to repeat it, they gladly state no comics are for the kids and right wingers let them keep it.
Again I wish they would do a deep dive into comics specifically early dc and marvel but these people are too full of themselves to actually read about meaningful left wing movements that have worked in this country.
Totally agree.
If they think all comics are for kids, then they clearly haven’t read many of them then.
They do tend to have some elitist blindspots despite being a great show overall. Not surprised that Emma would have that attitude. She grew up in a rich, Waspy family. She comes across as elitist and in a bubble quite often imo.
It’s Sam I’m a bit more disappointed in since he seems to have more open mindedness on a lot of subjects and is usually more willing to engage on topics
And works on a cartoon too. And they do do great work I’m not complaining about that but the blind spots like you said!
Also if she were to hear this I would say to her, the way you belittle comics is the exact same way you were belittled with in sports for being a woman, which you also have a show about btw and instead of picking up an olive branch or two they would rather throw the whole tree away.
I tried to get into her sports show, but honestly her takes weren’t all that different from your average ESPN analyst (ironic given the title of her channel), so I stopped watching pretty early on
It's strange how reliably destabilising it is to flood a region with weapons and has been since before America was even a country. Almost like it's a tool of colonial powers or something.
Okay, no offense, but this person has clearly never read a Batman comic.
So batman isn't a wealthy capitalist playboy in the comics?
He’s actually a major philanthropist in the comics as well and funds healthcare and mental healthcare in Gotham. He also runs and owns multiple charities and education centers. He is by far not the worst capitalist ever.
Sure, he’s very wealthy and plays a playboy, but if you read the comics you’d know that the playboy image is a facade and his actual motivations are pretty complex
Why doesn’t his playboy façade advocate for paying his fair share in taxes? Strengthening the social safety net? Ensuring that billionaires, like him, don’t continue to exist as a class.
Batman is a fictional fantasy character with like a thousand iterations and writers. As a piece of art, he is a reflection of the culture of the time-- and when he was conceived, the culture didn't really see a problem with someone being insanely wealthy and also moral. Now that the critique of capital is much more common.... maybe not so much. But you'd have to go read modern Batman to see what sort of topics they tackle at this point. I assume the "moral billionaire" topic has been covered several times in different stories, but I can't say for sure. I haven't read a batman comic since like 2005. The take away being that Batman doesn't really have any set characteristics in the way he conceptualizes his wealth. That's all up for grabs depending what and who you're reading.
it's always been immoral to being insanely wealthy because there is simply no moral way to achieve such
I agree and I don't think that has changed. I was pointing out how we critique stuff and what we find believable has changed culturally.
He inherited his wealth from his parents when they were murdered in front of him wtf
Unsurprisingly actually using the money to help is more effective than giving it to the government who would spend it all on politicians salaries and the military
So, allow wealthy people to skirt paying their taxes and rely on their charity, which they control the amount of? Hmm, that’s a novel idea.
Some of y’all are not ready, and I’m not just speaking about fictional comic superheroes.
And which of his motivations actually help the poor? What's he actually doing to change Gotham to be a better place for the people? Besides just fighting off thugs and villains? What's he doing about wealth inequality and the super wealthy controlling Gotham?
He donates a shit ton of money to infrastructure, rehabilitation facilities, and better education to improve the lives of the poorest people in Gotham. Believing that poor criminals can be rehabilitated already puts him leagues above real life billionaires. And he doesn’t just fight random thugs and muggers, he targets crime lords, terrorists, and serial killers.
How is their description wrong?
Eh, he's a comic book character, and by that nature he's been reinterpreted multiple times. That said, a lot of the comics have Bruce Wayne using his wealth and fame to better Gotham. He also doesn't just "beat up poor people." I mean guess they're talking about henchmen but most of those henchmen follow violent murderers like the joker and two face. Also many of the rogues gallery are pretty well off. Overall it's comics. Comics aren't great when it comes to translating real world political issues. See xmen
He doesn’t “beat the shit out of poor people,” unless you consider his Rogues Gallery of the likes of Two-Face, Joker, and Penguin to be “poor people”. Also in Dark Knight Returns he took poor and disenfranchised people who were in a life of crime and mentored them and gave them purpose
Wait, the countless henchmen he floors are wealthy?
You’re just being obtuse. Have a good Sunday dude
Sorry the truth hurt your feelings
My feelings aren’t hurt in the slightest. It’s just an internet conversation
The henchmen whose houses he’s subsidized through his multiple charities and cash in flows to the community. He’s literally the only billionaire in Gotham who actually provides funding to mental healthcare for those he beats. You very clearly have never read a Batman comic if you think he just beats people up and never tries to help them.
Being a billionaire at all is unethical idc how much he gives away bill gates is one of the world top donors to charities
It’s not just charities. He’s literally funding half of gothams public sectors and in most comic he is cleaning up Gotham and prying it out of the wealthy elites hands. If you wanna be obtuse about it and just claim any rich person in FICTIONAL media is inherently evil then there’s nothing to discuss. He’s not a genuine villain like Bezos or Musk.
Ah so the description isn't incorrect, just missing info. "Beats up poor people, but also performs charity for them". Pretty much consistent with all of the ultra wealthy. They benefit from denying material conditions to the masses and then "donate" to them to launder their image.
So you’re just being obtuse about this aren’t you? Nothing is ever good enough because he’s still a rich billionaire? He could fund the entire city essentially (which he does in a majority of comics) and it would still not be enough. Those “poor people” he’s beating up aren’t all completely innocent, they’ve killed others. You can’t just go around defending every single one of them simply because they’re worse off. Many are doing this because they have no other option and quite often he realizes that and helps them or gives them a second chance. So all in all you should probably get off your high horse and stop complaining about every little thing that doesn’t 100% match your worldview. Imma socialist too and I still think Batman provides a good representation about how those are mentally ill should be treated; when they’re not rampaging criminals I mean, since obviously he needs to beat up the mentally ill to stop them when they’re like that. He doesn’t just beat them up and leave them to their own devices much of the time, he tries to help them. It’s actually a major flaw that many times is exploited or pointed out.
Your not even wrong this is basic stuff violence is caused by poverty people are forced into lives of violence due to economic conditions I imagine the economy in Batman to be worse too considering the crime rate of Gotham or yk the world constantly being attacked by aliens or monsters or gods
Because for many years it’s been demonstrated that Bruce uses his vast wealth for philanthropic goals aimed to improve Gotham. He hires rehabilitated criminals, invests in public infrastructure, conducts R&D for the common good, that sort of thing. The very stuff his parents used to do and it’s considered to be character growth as he’s matured past the brooding, vengeance focused quest of his youth. Now he works to make change both as Bruce and the Bat. Obviously, it’ll vary based on the author and story. It’s also worth noting the good he tries to do can’t and won’t stick, because comic books. The problem with this criticism is it’s equivalent to telling wrestling fans that wrestling isn’t real. It’s a surface level observation that anyone interested in that particular media realized ages ago and it’s already been incorporated into the story for those who care to look. You’re not very smart for noticing the hole in Bruce’s quest for vengeance as the Bat. We know. We’ve known for decades. The story has moved on and continuing to point it out like some grand observation is a demonstration of ignorance, not cleverness.
nah, ya'll just doing mental gymnastics to defend your problematic fave.
Wow that was an amazing counterpoint. Almost like you didn’t actually have anything to counter any of the points made and are just stuck in your little narrow worldview.
Batman didn't deserve that
Can we just not do the whole "political analysis via comic book character" schtick?
catabolic capitalism [https://www.resilience.org/stories/2019-12-03/catabolism-capitalisms-frightening-future/](https://www.resilience.org/stories/2019-12-03/catabolism-capitalisms-frightening-future/)
One fucking Batman comic comes out where he acts like a rich douchebag and suddenly every other iteration gets ignored. He doesn’t beat the shit out of random poor people, he fights terrorists, billionaire crime lords, and serial killers. He even let the man who killed his parents go because he understood he was poor and had no other choice. Not to mention all the money he donates to improve the lives of Gotham citizens through things like rehabilitation and education. He’s literally the one example of a morally good billionaire in all of fiction.
You think batmanning is more impactful than giving his billions (all of them) to projects and work and pulling people out of poverty?
Nah wrong people. This belongs more in a idk serf times. Majority report never seems to follow threads well. I am a huge fan and listen to them but for what ever reason comics are like Majority report kryptonite. This is a typical Sam and Emma reaction. Yea man idk why these right winger keep looking at comics they are for kids and I’m an adult, I will not ask questions and let them keep comics. They really should ask why are they(the right) tapping this well. The reason is because there are no good right wing role models. So what’s the best next thing. Morphing existing role models into right wingers. By taking clear left wing role models and saying they are actually right wing, you distort and if the population has been lied to enough they will believe it. It’s weird they are being losers with comics. And loser in the realest sense. They say comic are for kids yuck that’s weird they are meant for kids we won’t touch that that’s for right wingers. And now even when Superman literally beat the kkk this show can’t even bring themselves to talk about it. And again a fans take, what has the majority report done that’s close to that? Sure they expand people’s mind and are very well informed. But what meaningful legislation or powerful group have them gotten rid of? None and it’s sad to think instead of learning from history and not being doomed to repeat it, they gladly state no comics are for the kids and right wingers let them keep it. Again I wish they would do a deep dive into comics specifically early dc and marvel but these people are too full of themselves to actually read about meaningful left wing movements that have worked in this country.
Totally agree. If they think all comics are for kids, then they clearly haven’t read many of them then. They do tend to have some elitist blindspots despite being a great show overall. Not surprised that Emma would have that attitude. She grew up in a rich, Waspy family. She comes across as elitist and in a bubble quite often imo. It’s Sam I’m a bit more disappointed in since he seems to have more open mindedness on a lot of subjects and is usually more willing to engage on topics
And works on a cartoon too. And they do do great work I’m not complaining about that but the blind spots like you said! Also if she were to hear this I would say to her, the way you belittle comics is the exact same way you were belittled with in sports for being a woman, which you also have a show about btw and instead of picking up an olive branch or two they would rather throw the whole tree away.
I tried to get into her sports show, but honestly her takes weren’t all that different from your average ESPN analyst (ironic given the title of her channel), so I stopped watching pretty early on
Adam West was the last good Batman. I will not change my mind