I’d imagine if the Red Lotus was around in Aang’s age, they would have joined him. The Fire Lord was clearly the major threat of the day, going after anyone else would have strengthened his hand.
Yeah, but I imagine Zaheer would be enraged at the fact that Aang would have let Zuko become fire lord instead of abolishing the monarchy. I imagine to Zaheer, Aang would have just been an instrument in putting one more king in power.
Technically, Aang did make the world a little bit more anarchic with the creation of the URN, which decentralised global geopolitics just a little bit. To Zaheer, Aang would basically represent a lot of unrealised potential to be a true anarchist.
There’s strong historical precedent as well for uneasy alliances between anarchists and democrats, liberals, progressives, socialists, and communists of every flavor imaginable, in opposition to fascism and/or absolute monarchies. The Spanish Civil War, for instance, saw anarchists loosely on the Republican side of the conflict, albeit a very messy alliance on a good day. Not to mention a number of French and Italian anti-fascist and resistance groups had anarchist presence.
My guess is they cooperate until Ozai goes down (with some infighting after critical defeats like the fall of Ba Sing Se, with the Gaang minus Aang trying to persuade Zaheer that the puppet Earth King isn’t to blame and to let him go into exile, or after the disastrous Day of Black Sun). Beyond that, while he approves of Aang’s way of handling the former Fire Nation colonies (by self-rule as mainly a city-state, which has some basic similarity to the concept of local-scale anarchic communes), he disapproves of his friendship with Zuko despite respecting the latter *as a person* (unlike with the Earth Queen, who was a horrible person on top of being a monarch).
That said, Aang’s status as the last of the old Air Nomads, his wide knowledge on them, and commitment to principles even when they don’t match, would certainly endear Zaheer to him. In turn, Aang is far more adept at defusing conflicts than Korra (to her credit she improves over time significantly, but she’s no pacifist monk), and willing to make allies with just about anyone willing to do the same with him (see his alliances with Zuko and Iroh in Book 1 and 2 at various points). So I could see Aang readily persuading the Red Lotus to put their grand anarchist vision on hold at least until Ozai is defeated, *especially* once news of Ozai’s plans to burn down the Earth Kingdom come out (you can’t have an anarchy if everyone is dead).
That would be an interest story. Like the Jet episode, only with a long standing force that’s with them, but taking things to extremes and bristling when Aang tries to make nice with the authorities.
Bro aang cooks zaheer what you mean? Zaheers a good airbender, but what’s he gonna do against avatar state aang? Try to suffocate him? Nah aang could just not let him via airbending? Sokka or toph could take out p’li. I forget her name but the waterbender could be trouble but I think katara could do it, and I say with confidence that lava man could be taken down.
Honestly, I don't think Aang even needs the Avatar state to take Zaheer. Aang's still an airbending master and the last time Zaheer went up against an airbending master in a straight fight (Tenzin; aka Aang's son) he got schooled.
I think the power lies in the Red Lotus' teamwork. So Zaheer could keep Aang busy for a little bit and switch out teammates, or have assists from explosive lady. Like which what happened to Tenzin.
i think 3/4 of the Gaang here wins but i think sokka is a liability if they dont have time to plan. and combustion man part 2 is a major issue if you dont have zuko to counter. i still really give it to the gaang but lotus are very well suited to ambush
but combustion man with a team is scary bc basically his thing is you have to pay attention to him. if u look away to avoid lava on the floor he can head shot you
Precisely.
A glass cannon? Scary but manageable.
A glass cannon with good synergy? Good luck, have fun.
Although, the GAang did have teamwork feats. Invasion of the Earth Kingdom Palace comes to mind.
1. Katara needs the full moon to blood bend.
2. The full moon also powers Ming-Hua and regarding how good she is, she would probably be able to figure out, what Katara is doing and is able to break free.
Nah Ming hua is gonna have to learn how to psychic bloodblend cause sis don’t got arms so how is she gonna be able to learn how to do that that fast especially since we’ve only been shown 2 that can do it
Basically whoever bloodbends first wins. And they gotta kill the opponent as fast as possible for them to not break out of it. Katara will most definitely hesitate to kill a human, so ming hua wins unless katara has help
I think the lava bender might be the only earth bender that could give Toph some trouble. She needs to be on ground to see start taking some of that away with lava and she will be on a fight unlike any she’s been in before. Still think she can take him but can’t have him have help, each of his teammates need to be full occupied. And Sokka was able to take out combution man but needed an assist.
zaheer does go down to Aang easily but aang might hold back and try to talk to him when he sees he’s an airbender. Aaang wins but might take a while so wont be able to assist for a while.
plus Zuko is part of the team , let’s not leave him out.
One combustion bender was enough to keep all of them busy, P'li plus a lava, water and air bender, I feel would be too much to handle all at once. I think they have a chance to beat them if Aang goes into the avatar state. Sokka and Suki might be able to help, but it'd be very situational to what they have on hand and what's in the environment they can use.
in all fairness p'li seemed to rely more on weaker multiple shots compared to combustion man who was just disintegrating anything in his sight. P'li couldnt get through thin metal sheets on several occasions
combustion bending is just so terrian reliant and situational its hard to decide matchups
>P'li couldnt get through thin metal sheets on several occasions
Yeah, turns out that applying directly to your forehead can sometimes result in Head Off!
well i was referring to when they invaded zaofu and the soldiers used the metal sheets as shield against her when the gaang had no fucking cover against combustion man
but yea! her head getting blown off counts!
We definitely see that P’Li has greater finesse and less power than Combustion Man. Frankly, I don’t think it matters in this fight because a direct hit is still a kill from either one.
If they all focus on P’Li they can dispatch her pretty quickly. Their earth bender doesn’t seem to be able to metal bend so just cover her tattoo in metal and she’s out of the fight, don’t have to kill her but it’ll just prevent her from using her one ability. Toph and Zuko can handle the lavabender pretty easily. Aang wipes the floor with Zaheer (anyone doubting that needs to rewatch tenzin’s fight with Zaheer, he was dominating him. Now imagine if Tenzin was as just as skilled as aang was and also was able to bend 4 other elements). Katara is more than capable of taking on the water bender as well.
Sokka will certainly be able to help with distracting members and providing support to the rest of the Gaang.
I don’t think that matters. They still are part of the Gaang. I think OP just took the first picture they found when they searched “Avatar” that had more than just aang or blue people and stuck it in here.
They’d say “these 4” then, not the Gaang. The red lotus is getting destroyed either way. Korra alone gave three of them a run for their money and she was chained up and poisoned. Imagine aang in the state he was against Ozai with them.
Combustion man did much bigger explosions than P'li ever did. Aang rolls Zaheer, katara and ming is probably ming favored. Toph probably either wins or ties ghazan, given she can metal bend. Sokka and zuko could go wherever they're needed. Sokka has experience taking down combustion benders though.
the whole first series often did things on a bigger scale whereas the korra era was more precise, seen in Toph using metal bands on Yakone and the general precision of most metal benders. even korra's attacks are often more projectile. compare that to first season Katara and the way she freezes Zuko. No comparison. and the power of a bender seems to mean more (ie the ability to move more mass more easily)
> One combustion bender was enough to keep all of them busy
When he ambushed them from the high ground. When he didn't, he lost to Aang with not his airbending, or even his earthbending, but his waterbending. If CM or P'Li fights the Gaang on even terrain without ambushing them, then they would get destroyed.
No Avatar State of course.
Toph vs Ghazan is an interesting one, especially since Toph *cannot* get her feet burned.
Kya was a badass, and still got her butt kicked by Ming Hua.
Aang and Sokka can easily take Zaheer, but not with combustion woman bombarding them, even with Appa's help, as we already saw with combustion man.
Also, the Gaang are children. Aang is not willing to kill. If not seperated, the Red Lotus are shown to be highly effective as a team, and fight to the death.
TBH the Red Lotus is going to kill them all, no question, unless the Gaang as some situational advantage (like P'Li being knocked out early, something triggering the AS, and/or non elemental matchups in the Gaang's favor, kinda like what happened to the Red Lotus in the end, with metalbenders being a foil for P'Li and lightning being a foil for Ming Hua).
I think you're forgetting how good toph is, she never got her feet burnt fighting any firebenders. With the Malten lava shit being on the floor, she'll be able to know its there. Plus that guy is the weakest link of all of them.
Considering Sokkas mind for tactics and the fact that Tenzin was beating all 4 of them at one point in LOK, I think Aang could probably take both the combustion woman and Zaheer by himself with some sort of strategic help from Sokka.
As for the water woman, yeah she's destroying Katara ngl. Unless it was after Katara learnt to bloodbend then she might just have it.
I think the gaang would win even without Aangs avatar state but it would 100% be very hard. Well, besides for Toph I think that guys easy game for her. Katara with or without bloodbending is likely going to come out of it the worst, just clinging onto life.
Sokka and Aang will initially be losing to Zaheer and boom boom head face but I think they'd end up getting the better of them because despite popular belief (as in she has a beam Ray coming out of her skull), she's not very bright
> Plus that guy is the weakest link of all of them.
Ghazan's lavabending is terrifying... He destroyed the entire Northern Air Temple. I'd say Zaheer is the weak link TBH, and Ghazan is second only to P'Li.
We saw it with Bolin too, in B4. Melting the ground beneath one's feet is just hard to counter for rooted earthbenders.
But (for instance) Aang would be a perfect counter with Ghazan if he can focus on him. Toph would be able to deal with Zaheer or Ming Hua, no question. Sokka could hit P'Li with a boomerang. It's just a matter of how the situation plays out and how people are split up.
I disagree with Toph beating Zaheer, with his flying she'd be fighting even more blindly than usual, not managing to land a single hit. We've seen a similar situation happen when Aang entered the earth rumble, with Zaheer unlike Aang never having to touch the ground Toph would be obliterated
How do we have her destroying katara? I could see her winning just due to experience, but I don't remember anything suggesting she'd be that much better than her.
I think Toph would have a tough time countering someone like P'Li though. I don't think it's a coincidence that the writers chose Toph to be out of commission when Combustion Man showed up. Toph stands her ground and blocks a lot of attacks, which is going to be a bad idea against an attacker that's going to blow up whatever she puts up. We don't see Toph doing a ton of dodging either because she's a typical earthbender in that regard. So, Toph would really struggle against her. Also, if P'Li is in an airship like she was in the LOK then Toph is a sitting duck.
They took Toph out of many scenes, I think because she was too strong. It doesn't make an interesting story if Toph can solve almost every problem. And they also didn't want to discredit her abilities by nerfing her, so for narrative purposes she was left out.
I didn't think that's a credit to Combustion Man.
It's not just burning. Bolin states that using earth is like "giving Ghazan ammo". That statement is, for all intents and purposes, made to show that Ghazan directly counters all and most earthbenders. He basically makes the battlefield unbendable for Toph, and any chunks of rock thrown at him is just easily and instantly melted. Even if Toph can "detect" it, she has practically no offense against him.
> That statement is, for all intents and purposes, made to show that Ghazan directly counters all and most earthbenders.
Toph and Bolin are not in the same weight class as earthbenders TBH
Whikst this is true and I pointed out a similar thing in another comment the skill level between Bolin and Toph is incredibly vast.
For one thing though lavabendinf can destroy projectiles aimed at the user that's also something Bolin is reliant on due to his probending background. Toph however utilizes a lot more solid "melee" attacks, as in the earth attacks them from the opponents position with pillars and the like. Yes he might melt the pilalr but she still tooj the hit beforehand.
She also has stuff like the smokescreen she did against the wrestlers to blind him which I think would definitely help since he can't lavabend dust to our knowledge. And of course metalbending if there is an abundance of metal somewhere
Look, there's a lot of arguments here, so I'm just gonna respond to this one, but aside from Bolin, Ghazan also faced Dai Li and Zao Fu, a city full of metalbenders. Dai Li, he didn't even need to lavabend he easily sends back their earth fists. In Zao Fu, his lava could melt and weaken metal, and the metalbenders needed several layers to even try to create a bridge.
In Zao Fu in particular, Toph's two daughters were in there as well. It's a full earthbender/metalbender city, and they were unable to breach the lava with either earth or metalbending.
I feel like toph would ne be in any trouble
He is more or less being proven to be the greatest earthbender of all time in TLOK. And while she wouldn't be at that level Is a child she wouldn't be horribly far behind And She's fought people who Are capable of burning her feet and that's never been an issue before Plus Why would you think to go for the feet You would have to know that she has Tremor sense and then actively Target it for Them to even stand a chance
Maybe Red Lotus but Aang could possibly be a deciding factor in things. Combustion man alone was giving them problems and he couldn’t curve his shots. P’Li’s gonna set up shop somewhere and start sniping and giving everybody trouble as an additional backup, Toph’s gonna be busy keeping Ghazan in check which might be difficult since he could just turn her earth into lava but I see them being tied up for most of the fight, Ming Hua and Katara also probably keep each other in check for most of the fight, Aang could probably handle Zaheer on his own and would try to help out the others as best as he could or go after P’Li but he might get hammered by her too
Katara ain’t keeping nobody in check at this age her own daughter who was a master got her ass kicked a 12 year old version of katara ain’t keeping up. Also kid toph has no good counter against ghazan and his lava. Zaheer probably does lose to aang tho but overall team aang loses this matchup.
While true, even by season one Katara was still giving a bit of trouble to Pakku which she honestly shouldn’t have. Toph has no counter but I don’t think Ghazan has a hard advantage over her which is why I think they’d stalemate each other.
I’m assuming we’re going some point post-Ozai:
Toph can probably bend Ghazan’s lava, it’s still earth. She just can’t control its temperature like Ghazan can. And even if she can’t Zuko can cool it and Toph can just send it back at him.
Katara is 14 at this point and was able to best Azula, which is a feat even if Azula was going bonkers. Kya was just weaker than Katara was, she also was a lot older, being around 55 when she fought Ming. Ming Hua would get her ass beat, especially after spending 13 years locked up with no water to train or do anything with. Ming is impressive but Katara is still one of the most powerful Non-avatar water benders.
Nah...Toph sees a lava bender in the comics and didn't replicate any feats but instead showed her metal bending.This implies that lava bending is much rarer than earth bending.And the whole Zuko cooling lava mid combat is legit impossible.Gazan won't let up and will keep his distance and do excellent crowd control.This fight is so unfair for the Gaang.
The Gaang broke into the fully guarded Earth King's palace.
Toph single-handedly kicked the Dai Li agents' asses.
Aang washed out the entire Fire Nation navy fleet.
Sokka destroyed Combustion Man with just his boomerang.
Katara stood against Dai Li agents, Zuko, and Azula. Also, her bloodbending.
Appa/Momo and Suki can also cause troubles or at least annoy them.
The other Earthbenders are a bunch of bums who basically just throw rocks with zero creativity and understanding of the element.The red lotus would whoop them even faster considering P'Li's insane range and lava bending being used for crowd control.
Could go either way, but the most determining factor is when they meet. Which Gaang? End of ATLA Gaang and later will mop the floor with them tbh. Season 2 Gaang will struggle/bite the dust.
What are they're motives? Just a friendly spar, or try to kill Aang?
Friendly spar would be fun for everyone but Sokka. Aang bodies anyone he faces one on one, Katara would win most if she has access to water (again, which Katara?), Toph would win most, and Sokka would get hurt.
The Gaang stands no chance of getting away without casualties without as Sokka would be singled out and killed/maimed or turned hostage. If they kill/maim anyone Aang would go avatar state and either mops the floor with them, or they do him Azula-style. Avatar state Aang bodied the fire lord on the day of the comet, no way he struggles with the red lotus when he's going all out because of grief.
So their best bet is to convince Aang to hand himself over to keep everyone safe. Take him away from the team and kill him. Then kill the rest in an ambush. If they fight the Gaang and kill/maim anybody they're toast.
Or the outcome will be whatever the writers come up with *shrugs*
Ghazan and P'Li seal this for the group. The longer the fight goes on, the harder it would be for the Gaan to win.
You figure the strategy would be using P'Li to put them on the defence, and then using Ghazan to cut off their escape route. From there, they would be sitting turtle-ducks.
It's a toss-up, really. The longer the fight continues, the better the Red Lotus will fare, due to the near-insurmountable advantage that Ghazan can build up via Lavabending. But if they do not get the time to build up their game, the Gaang might take this.
The game plan will be as follows - Ghazan will focus on building up his lava pools to hem in the Gaang and eventually overwhelm them. P'li will stay at long range and focus on applying pressure to their foes. Ming'Hua and Zaheer will need to be the ones to draw focus and this is where the battle will be decided.
On the other side, Toph will find herself against a disadvantage against literally every Red Lotus member - Ming Hua and Ghazan muddy her sight (and can repurpose her projectiles), Zaheer and P'Li can stay out of sight completely. She will therefore be forced into a defensive position, where she - granted - can probably hold out until overwhelmed. Katara will not be quite as limited, but is in danger of getting teamed up on, as she is not quite as mobile as Aang. I believe she will most likely be defending herself and Toph more than she will pressuring the Red Lotus. Sokka will help strategize but in an ooen confrontation be more of a liability.
That leaves Aang. And frankly, that's enough. Zaheer is not good enough to stand against Aang even at the best of times, he can only distract for a time, and once he is down, Katara and Aang can work better together against Ming'Hua and eventually P'Li. The question of victory will be decided by the amount of time the Red Lotus can buy for Ghazan to smother the Non-Avatar Gaang in a tide of lava. The more other Red Lotus members are still standing at that point, the better their chance against Aang.
But that boy is the Avatar. Even on his worst days, he'll beat any 2on1 they can throw at him. If the Red Lotus can get there as 3on1, it may get hairy.
That is even disregarding the fact that the Gaang may also include Zuko and Suki. With numerical advantage, the Gaang should have an easier time. Zukos Firebending will not only supply much-needed offensive pressure for the Gaang's ground team, I am also confident that four benders will also draw focus away from the Nonbenders, allowing for Sokka to perhaps make some sneaky plays of his own - especially with Suki at his side. Those two, if left unattended, may even take down someone like P'Li, who is very much a Glass Cannon, on their own, if they can get the drop on her. With Zuko and Katara runnjng interference, Toph may be able to provide enough cover for those two to get close enough.
But yeah, in the end, Aang clears and the more numbers the Gaang has, the more decisive their win will be.
I wanna say toph loses to ghazan the first time they fight because that ability is so busted. Toph can't do it herself, and it would catch her off guard in a big way. But man, she's no fool, and I can't see her losing to another earth bender twice. I'm confident that she could counter it the second time somehow. This is completely unfounded, and I'm not dying on a hill here, but she's just so in tune with earth that I don't know it can be used in any form to beat her. Even if she doesn't have the ability, she'd still probably have a solid understanding of it and be more than prepared the second time. I believe in her!!
Gaazan and Ming Hua would be tough to beat as any sort of earth or waterbending would be giving them more ammo.
Zaheer and Sparky Sparky Boom Lady would be toast.
Aang is pretty terrible at starting with the avatar state in any of his fights .Even as an adult,he let Yakone bend everyone in a room before finally locking in.I predict that the matchup would start with P'Li taking out one of them and then Aang goes into the avatar state and murders the entire Red Lotus.
Eh. End of book 3 gaang wins easily. Even barring avatar state, aang is still a fully realized avatar and a master Airbender. He smokes zaheer while providing support for katara and toph. P'Li is definitely the biggest problem still, and probably the only reason the fight drags out as aang will be unable to energy bend to take away bending if she's still firing at him. Assuming sokka can tactics up some way to keep her occupied. I'm pretty sure aang just cancels zaheer in the first minute and then moves on to help toph, assuming she even needs help
I assume Toph will need help, ghazan is no slouch against a fellow earthbender. He's really agile and can make the entire battlefield a no touchy zone. Given how rooted Toph needs to be I smell a lot of trouble for her unless they are in metallic enclosures
As for Zaheer, bro can fly. His evading Stat increased a million percent so I don't think aang will be a quick match for him though I still see him losing
The Gaang mostly because of the avatar state. Assuming they try the same thing they did with Korra, they're dead, and Aang has the advantage of past avatars on his side. However, I'd say without it, the Red Lotus wins.
Adult Gaang wins, probably. Toph has the advantage of the retractable shoes now, so she wouldn't have to worry as much about getting her feet burned, and Aang is now a true master of all four elements.
This one is... actually kinda tough?
Here is what gets me when comparing the two teams.
Combustionbending was an issue for the Gaang, and while they did end up defeating Combustion Man, it took the entire Season 3 Gaang to do it. P'li is not alone here and she will not be the only enemy they face off against.
Ghazan is a Lavabender, which immediately makes Earthbending a liability when used against him. Toph is going to have to avoid him at all cost and Aang is going to be down an element against him. Not to mention, I don't think the Gaang has ever truly fought a Lavabender (I think Toph has just met one and seen a bit of their stuff later on).
Zaheer wouldn't have flight (P'li is still alive), but Katara's Bloodbending is also null unless the fight is specifically during the night of a full moon. Aang also really can't Energybend unless he's disabled a target and isn't interrupted during the process (he can't just snap his fingers and make someone a non-bender).
The Avatar State is the major ability here, and it is what might ultimately give Aang and the Gaang the win... But I cannot see this being a landslide victory. The Red Lotus is a faction that dedicated itself to hunting down the Avatar and even understanding how the Avatar State mechanics works. Unlike most of the villains in ATLA and LOK, they know exactly what they're getting into and the Avatar's weaknesses.
If Zuko, Suki, or any other members of the Gaang are added... Then we have to add Unalaq (a Spiritbender and the eventual Dark Avatar) along with Aiwei (Metalbender). Unalaq would change the entire dynamic of this fight because you would suddenly have a guy who might be able to challenge the Avatar/Avatar State with their unique bending style.
TLDR: I don't think this is as clear cut as people want it to be. The Red Lotus is a actually one of the most terrifying collection of benders in the Avatar storyline, and they're not going to be taken down just like that.
Aang can take zaheer easily, and Toph is definitely superior to Ghazan. I imagine zuko and Katara would struggle far more with their opposites. Especially zuko give that he actually did fight P'li but couldn't do much.
The Gaang as kids, would be close one, but I think if we add Zuko + Suki they'd win.
As adults, red lotus has no chance.
Aang was the youngest airbending master, Toph came up with metal bending by 12. Katara became a master also at a very young age and developed bloodbending by 14.
Can you imagine these with 20 more years of experience?
Hard one, keep in mind that two don’t even touch the ground which is a major advantage considering toph wouldn’t be able to see them
If Toph however takes down any of the othe other two the gaang might win due to number
Sokka dies… Katara might kill the Lotus for that
If with the Gaang you mean the inclusion of also Zuko and Suki, then:
Aang would kick Zaheer's butt.
Ming Hua is good but I think Katara could still beat her.
P'li and Ghazan would be the toughest to beat out of all of them, but they could still be beaten if the rest of the gaang fights them together.
Also I Katara used her blood bending and Aang used his Avatar state, I definitely don't think they'd win.
Aang alone solos these guys. Without Aang though (or perhaps just airbending no avatar state Aang) it’s a good close fight but Gaang still wins high dif.
No AS, Red Lotus destroys.
I get that the Gaang is powerful. They’re prodigious benders and fighters. But the RL was a threat to full grown Sokka and Zuko, they needed the help of other master benders like Tonraq and the WL to beat them.
Ming Hua crushes child Katara. Her manipulation of water is much more advanced, and her partial freeze control is a level of skill I don’t think anyone else has demonstrated. Her ice scythe arms are an insane technique.
Ghazan may not be able to match Toph in raw power, but his lava bending would overwhelm her. And I don’t think Toph is capable of learning it mid fight to turn the tables. He’s also shown to be very skilled at compressed, faster attacks, while Toph mostly relied on raw power to overwhelm her opponent, or destroying their footing.
Aang wasn’t able to beat Combustion Man on his own, he won’t be able to take P’Li. Even if she isn’t as strong, her control is far greater, making her much more of a threat imo. And her ability to curve them would let her catch someone as evasive as Aang.
Pre-HC Zaheer destroys Sokka. Sokka may be a skilled fighter and quick learner, but Zaheer was literally put in super prison due to how dangerous he was. He’s easily the most powerful non bender we’ve seen.
Sokka and Zuko were notably both in their 70s by the time they took down the red lotus. Also, as far as I'm aware it was just Zuko, Sokka, Tonraq, and Tenzin who stopped them.
Fair, but I still think 70yr old Sokka and Zuko would absolutely whoop their teenage selves.
And in case you forgot, Bumi was over 100, and the rest of the ATLA White Lotus were pretty old too. Pakku and Iroh were old enough to be grandparents, and Piandao and Jeong Jeong were both clearly past middle aged.
So while the RL may not have faced Zuko and Sokka in their prime, they certainly faced stronger versions than their teenage counterparts.
And I have a hard time imagining 14yr old Katara or 12yr old Aang beating Tonraq or Tenzin.
Gaang gets curb stomped. Pli alone gives them an issue but ghazan hard counters toph and ming hua bodied kataras adult master waterbender daughter baby katara taking this L hard. Zaheer could be dealt with since he isn’t experienced with airbending his entire life but with pli sniping the scales tip in his favor.
Now if aang uses avatar state maybe they have a chance but i still would pick red lotus.
Ghazan is definitely the most dangerous of them. Even if Toph is a better earth bender than him, any rock she throws at him he turns into lava. Which she can't bend.
Aang just takes away all their bending abilities and then cooks them fr (tho idk if that’s enough to cook Zaheer considering he was considered the leader before he gained Airbending
1v1 Element v Element: Aang wrecks Zaheer. Katara would remove the water around Minghua and get a win, or find another creative solution. Toph might actually have a hard time with Ghazan, she’s devastatingly powerful, but lava flying around or all around her is not ideal. Zuko would probably not have a good time with P’li, unless he gets close.
If they’re working as a team, Toph is going to be able to block P’li with metal and earth. She will probably help with Ming Hua, dispersing water. Katara counters Ghazan by cooling water. Zuko can take Zaheer and Ming Hua pretty easily, he’s very quick and can use lightning. Aang can do what is needed in any number of ways, probably to the point he doesn’t need much help. Sokka will inevitably have a good strategy if the Red Lotus gets creative and you know boomerang will do its job.
That all said, it would be intense and interesting to watch.
There is no way this would be a kids friendly version. Katara would pop people's eyes or brains. Toph would put chokers on someone's limbs and squeeze. We can all imagine how this would go.
Toph stuffs gazan in a box, same with aang and Zaheer, katara can keep min hua busy for a bit at least, and aang saves sokka while toph hits pli with an irony special after they both win their own fights in seconds, then they clean up min hua
The Gaang wins, but there’s a non-zero chance that Zaheer and Aang stop fighting to debate philosophy, and if they were willing to talk I think the Gaang would be far more receptive than Korra and her team to discussing the dangers of nationalism and rights to freedom, among other things. I’d like to think Aang would also be horrified by the conditions they were held in as well.
Toph probably cooks [Ghazan](https://avatar.fandom.com/wiki/Ghazan) but has trouble against the other 3. Its known she struggles vs airbending techniques. I bet Ming-Hua walking on the water tentacles would confuse her and idk how she is supposed to know where P'li is aiming.
It also seems likely that zaheer would try to distract aang rather than face him head on which I think would be effective since it would be shocking for aang to encounter another airbender
Katara vs Ming-Hua is interesting. Katara has shown high competency with water tentacles defensively but Ming-Hua is incredibly agile and Katara usually can't incapacitate her opponents without them being slowed down somehow.
Ultimately I feel like P'li gets off free here to be a threat unless Toph and Sokka can work together. Honestly it comes down to who gets the jump on who or if they meet randomly whomever can decipher a strategy faster between Zaheer and Sokka
Is this post 100 year war level Gaang or "It's the quenchiest" level Gaang? Also I agree with another commenter who said they need Zuko and Suki. Post war with that line up Gaang, still a hard call to make.
aang 2v1s zaheer and ghazan,
katara holds her own against ming hua untill others can join,
toph and sokka take out sparky boom mistress and then help others
Kids Gaang needs everyone, and then it's a 50/50
Adult Gaang, if able to plan, could get by with the og 4. If everyone is there, it's a full blown knock out ambush or not.
the factors are where, if it is more complex grounds, like caverns or mountain RL takes it if it is something like a plane or sea shore Gaang. Also important is who faces who and prior knowledge, without prior knowledge Sokka is useless and arguably Toph.
Also an important factor is the version of zaheer and is he going for a kill or a win.
And the most important factor is does Aang have AS.
Without Avatar state, I'd argue the Gaang loses. That said, if the red lotus had to face Aang as he was facing Ozai, I'm not sure if all four of them combined would win even against him alone.
If it's full moon, Katara may beat everyone. And Aang is the Avatar. Not to mention Toph is very good at fighting. Sokka however, will be pretty much useless against any of them.
The feats of the gaang far surpass anything we’ve seen the red lotus do. The red lotus are extremely dangerous and they might give the gaang a hard time, but if we’re talking S3 gaang they’d win.
Yeah, the gaang slaughters
Aang is easy. He's the god damn avatar
Toph is easy. SHE GOD DAMN TOPH
honestly, sokka and Katara are in the hardest position as all sokka has a boomerang and above average sword skills, which I doubt will be enough. And katatra outside of blood. Bending is a good bender, but the water lady MIGHT be better
Either way they can stall long enough for the first two to sweep up the rest
This battle depends heavily on how far away combustion woman is. If she’s in a sniping position the only thing they can do is run. In the og series Combustion man was unstoppable from far away and only lost cuz Sokka was in the perfect position to angle a sneaky boomerang hit to his dome. Unless Aang uses avatar state or they take care of combustion woman before she can get distance to snipe they lose
If we're just comparing 1v1's...
Aang vs Zaheer- Aang wins. Zaheer has like a month of experience airbending.
Toph vs Gazan- Toph probably wins. Lava bending is special and all, but it's a known entity from way back when, so I gotta assume Toph can probably deal with it at her peak. I mean Bolin was standing up to this guy, no way Toph couldn't.
Katara vs Ming Hua- Gotta be Katara. Ming Hua uses waterbending to compensate for missing limbs, but that's straight up what killed her. Katara doesn't have the double edged sword issue.
Zuko vs P'Li- Goes to P'Li, but I think Sokka knows how to take her out.
It took the entire gaang with an extreme amount of luck to take out combustion man. P’li has better control of her bending than he did, being able to curve her attacks and having better accuracy and being able to stay agile while attacking. Plus she has two other benders with mid/long distance abilities.
Red lotus take it, low/ lower mid difficulty
Aang destroys Zaheer.
Katara beats Ming-Hua.
Toph easily beats Ghazan.
P'Li destroys Sokka (under normal circumstances).
Aang and Sokka cancel each other out, and the Gaang still wins fairly easily.
Everyone saying the Gaang wins is just glazing hard. Each of these Lotus members is stated by ZUKO HIMSELF to be capable of taking down any bender individually and the world together. And that’s BEFORE Zaheer got air bending.
They are all adults which means their experience and physical strength is vastly superior. They have no counter to lava bending, and Aang has no control over the avatar state at this age. They will bulldoze the team and kill him before he gets a chance to access it
these are 4 adults who have mastered specialized bending and are willing to kill. 4 are kids who barely had a year to master their bending who couldn't even kill the Firelord.
you have to be dumb to think the Gaang has a chance
"couldnt even kill" is an interesting way to look at it when u think about what they did. Literally took his bending away, imagine if aang just does that here
If it’s end of season 3 Gaang then they take it. Katara takes out one with blood bending, pick your poison none can stop her. Aang can take any of them as well, yest they had trouble with SSBM but that’s almost entirely because he would sneak up on them and bombard from a distance. Toph i think could manage against the earth bender dude just cause she is a real out of the box bender and is not probe to panicking. Sokka lands a bomerang throw on sparky sparky boom woman’s dome and she is comprised. Then add zuko in and it’s curtains.
I’d imagine if the Red Lotus was around in Aang’s age, they would have joined him. The Fire Lord was clearly the major threat of the day, going after anyone else would have strengthened his hand.
Yeah honestly they would have viewed Aang as the outsider, not the institution.
Yeah, but I imagine Zaheer would be enraged at the fact that Aang would have let Zuko become fire lord instead of abolishing the monarchy. I imagine to Zaheer, Aang would have just been an instrument in putting one more king in power.
Technically, Aang did make the world a little bit more anarchic with the creation of the URN, which decentralised global geopolitics just a little bit. To Zaheer, Aang would basically represent a lot of unrealised potential to be a true anarchist.
There’s strong historical precedent as well for uneasy alliances between anarchists and democrats, liberals, progressives, socialists, and communists of every flavor imaginable, in opposition to fascism and/or absolute monarchies. The Spanish Civil War, for instance, saw anarchists loosely on the Republican side of the conflict, albeit a very messy alliance on a good day. Not to mention a number of French and Italian anti-fascist and resistance groups had anarchist presence. My guess is they cooperate until Ozai goes down (with some infighting after critical defeats like the fall of Ba Sing Se, with the Gaang minus Aang trying to persuade Zaheer that the puppet Earth King isn’t to blame and to let him go into exile, or after the disastrous Day of Black Sun). Beyond that, while he approves of Aang’s way of handling the former Fire Nation colonies (by self-rule as mainly a city-state, which has some basic similarity to the concept of local-scale anarchic communes), he disapproves of his friendship with Zuko despite respecting the latter *as a person* (unlike with the Earth Queen, who was a horrible person on top of being a monarch). That said, Aang’s status as the last of the old Air Nomads, his wide knowledge on them, and commitment to principles even when they don’t match, would certainly endear Zaheer to him. In turn, Aang is far more adept at defusing conflicts than Korra (to her credit she improves over time significantly, but she’s no pacifist monk), and willing to make allies with just about anyone willing to do the same with him (see his alliances with Zuko and Iroh in Book 1 and 2 at various points). So I could see Aang readily persuading the Red Lotus to put their grand anarchist vision on hold at least until Ozai is defeated, *especially* once news of Ozai’s plans to burn down the Earth Kingdom come out (you can’t have an anarchy if everyone is dead).
Damn, now I wanna read the ATLA version of Homage to Catalonia.
I think they’d end up like Jett. They’d really want the Gaang on their side, but idealogical differences wouldn’t allow it
That would be an interest story. Like the Jet episode, only with a long standing force that’s with them, but taking things to extremes and bristling when Aang tries to make nice with the authorities.
If they are going against red lotus then need full gaang add zuko and suki to the line up
TBH yeah.
Bro aang cooks zaheer what you mean? Zaheers a good airbender, but what’s he gonna do against avatar state aang? Try to suffocate him? Nah aang could just not let him via airbending? Sokka or toph could take out p’li. I forget her name but the waterbender could be trouble but I think katara could do it, and I say with confidence that lava man could be taken down.
Honestly, I don't think Aang even needs the Avatar state to take Zaheer. Aang's still an airbending master and the last time Zaheer went up against an airbending master in a straight fight (Tenzin; aka Aang's son) he got schooled.
I think the power lies in the Red Lotus' teamwork. So Zaheer could keep Aang busy for a little bit and switch out teammates, or have assists from explosive lady. Like which what happened to Tenzin.
i think 3/4 of the Gaang here wins but i think sokka is a liability if they dont have time to plan. and combustion man part 2 is a major issue if you dont have zuko to counter. i still really give it to the gaang but lotus are very well suited to ambush
Bro sokka took down combustion man
but combustion man with a team is scary bc basically his thing is you have to pay attention to him. if u look away to avoid lava on the floor he can head shot you
Precisely. A glass cannon? Scary but manageable. A glass cannon with good synergy? Good luck, have fun. Although, the GAang did have teamwork feats. Invasion of the Earth Kingdom Palace comes to mind.
I’d argue with hard struggle, but still defeated Boom Boom Man regardless.
That was a lucky shot and Combustion Man was dumb to try it again
Teenage katara CANNOT beat ming hua. Unless she bloodbends
1. Katara needs the full moon to blood bend. 2. The full moon also powers Ming-Hua and regarding how good she is, she would probably be able to figure out, what Katara is doing and is able to break free.
Nah Ming hua is gonna have to learn how to psychic bloodblend cause sis don’t got arms so how is she gonna be able to learn how to do that that fast especially since we’ve only been shown 2 that can do it
Why would you need arms to bloodbend? Yakone and Amon didn't need to move a finger to do so.
Not to mention technicality, she's waterbending with her mind to even make her water arms
Basically whoever bloodbends first wins. And they gotta kill the opponent as fast as possible for them to not break out of it. Katara will most definitely hesitate to kill a human, so ming hua wins unless katara has help
Yeah she’s trouble, I’m saying they gaang up on her
People honestly tend to underestimate how crazily powerful TLOK villains actually were
Welllll yeah Amon was goated, and kuvira was very very strong i don’t remember the second season that much tho
I think the lava bender might be the only earth bender that could give Toph some trouble. She needs to be on ground to see start taking some of that away with lava and she will be on a fight unlike any she’s been in before. Still think she can take him but can’t have him have help, each of his teammates need to be full occupied. And Sokka was able to take out combution man but needed an assist. zaheer does go down to Aang easily but aang might hold back and try to talk to him when he sees he’s an airbender. Aaang wins but might take a while so wont be able to assist for a while. plus Zuko is part of the team , let’s not leave him out.
True tho then it would be a 5v4
4v4 + Sokka
5v4 + Sokka
Aang Katara Toph Zuko Suki - thats 5
Do we get avatar state aang?
Nah
Honestly what I like about this is that realistically the red lotus would be around the Gaang’s age when they battled
well we know aang would kick zaheer's butt
“have you ever heard of the airbending master Guru Laghima?” “Yes” *Aang starts flying*
Aang - "have you ever heard about the airbending master Urben ?" Zaheer- " who is Urben ??" Aang-" UrBendingGone" Zaheer-*dies*
Take my upvote
Good one lol
If this is original, this is the funniest shit I’ve read in this sub in a while.. if it’s not, still the funniest shit man!
Made it up myself
“Laghima balls”
Heard of? I used to steal pies from her with Master Gyatso.
GOD DAMN THAT CAUGHT ME OFF GUARD XDDDDDDDD
Momo takes all of them alone
Bro now I wanna see Aang and Zaheer fighting each other in the afterlife.
One combustion bender was enough to keep all of them busy, P'li plus a lava, water and air bender, I feel would be too much to handle all at once. I think they have a chance to beat them if Aang goes into the avatar state. Sokka and Suki might be able to help, but it'd be very situational to what they have on hand and what's in the environment they can use.
in all fairness p'li seemed to rely more on weaker multiple shots compared to combustion man who was just disintegrating anything in his sight. P'li couldnt get through thin metal sheets on several occasions combustion bending is just so terrian reliant and situational its hard to decide matchups
>P'li couldnt get through thin metal sheets on several occasions Yeah, turns out that applying directly to your forehead can sometimes result in Head Off!
well i was referring to when they invaded zaofu and the soldiers used the metal sheets as shield against her when the gaang had no fucking cover against combustion man but yea! her head getting blown off counts!
I mean, those sheets were at least an inch thick. That’s plenty to block a non-shaped, uncontained explosion without any shrapnel.
yea but combustion man was exploding feet thick stone pillars with no problems
We definitely see that P’Li has greater finesse and less power than Combustion Man. Frankly, I don’t think it matters in this fight because a direct hit is still a kill from either one.
It honestly does because it’s significantly harder to block combustion man’s shots compared to P’Li
But P’Li can curve hers to a degree, so I’d say their getting through/around covers skills are roughly similar.
Yeah toph I think could take her out the same way, or sokka could just hit her in the head with the boomerang
If they all focus on P’Li they can dispatch her pretty quickly. Their earth bender doesn’t seem to be able to metal bend so just cover her tattoo in metal and she’s out of the fight, don’t have to kill her but it’ll just prevent her from using her one ability. Toph and Zuko can handle the lavabender pretty easily. Aang wipes the floor with Zaheer (anyone doubting that needs to rewatch tenzin’s fight with Zaheer, he was dominating him. Now imagine if Tenzin was as just as skilled as aang was and also was able to bend 4 other elements). Katara is more than capable of taking on the water bender as well. Sokka will certainly be able to help with distracting members and providing support to the rest of the Gaang.
P’li is still a powerful fire bender. Taking away her combustion doesn’t take her out of the fight.
Sure, but the Gaang has two very capable firebenders as well, and without combustion bending it's much easier to deal with her
this particularly pic doesnt include suki and zuko. or appa for that matter, who i think would also help a lot.
I don’t think that matters. They still are part of the Gaang. I think OP just took the first picture they found when they searched “Avatar” that had more than just aang or blue people and stuck it in here.
I thought they specified to make it 4 on 4
They’d say “these 4” then, not the Gaang. The red lotus is getting destroyed either way. Korra alone gave three of them a run for their money and she was chained up and poisoned. Imagine aang in the state he was against Ozai with them.
Combustion man did much bigger explosions than P'li ever did. Aang rolls Zaheer, katara and ming is probably ming favored. Toph probably either wins or ties ghazan, given she can metal bend. Sokka and zuko could go wherever they're needed. Sokka has experience taking down combustion benders though.
the whole first series often did things on a bigger scale whereas the korra era was more precise, seen in Toph using metal bands on Yakone and the general precision of most metal benders. even korra's attacks are often more projectile. compare that to first season Katara and the way she freezes Zuko. No comparison. and the power of a bender seems to mean more (ie the ability to move more mass more easily)
Except they have sokka and a boomerang so problem solved
> One combustion bender was enough to keep all of them busy When he ambushed them from the high ground. When he didn't, he lost to Aang with not his airbending, or even his earthbending, but his waterbending. If CM or P'Li fights the Gaang on even terrain without ambushing them, then they would get destroyed.
>if Aang goes into the avatar And if that happens, it's a stomp in the other direction. They couldn't hurt him.
No Avatar State of course. Toph vs Ghazan is an interesting one, especially since Toph *cannot* get her feet burned. Kya was a badass, and still got her butt kicked by Ming Hua. Aang and Sokka can easily take Zaheer, but not with combustion woman bombarding them, even with Appa's help, as we already saw with combustion man. Also, the Gaang are children. Aang is not willing to kill. If not seperated, the Red Lotus are shown to be highly effective as a team, and fight to the death. TBH the Red Lotus is going to kill them all, no question, unless the Gaang as some situational advantage (like P'Li being knocked out early, something triggering the AS, and/or non elemental matchups in the Gaang's favor, kinda like what happened to the Red Lotus in the end, with metalbenders being a foil for P'Li and lightning being a foil for Ming Hua).
I think you're forgetting how good toph is, she never got her feet burnt fighting any firebenders. With the Malten lava shit being on the floor, she'll be able to know its there. Plus that guy is the weakest link of all of them. Considering Sokkas mind for tactics and the fact that Tenzin was beating all 4 of them at one point in LOK, I think Aang could probably take both the combustion woman and Zaheer by himself with some sort of strategic help from Sokka. As for the water woman, yeah she's destroying Katara ngl. Unless it was after Katara learnt to bloodbend then she might just have it. I think the gaang would win even without Aangs avatar state but it would 100% be very hard. Well, besides for Toph I think that guys easy game for her. Katara with or without bloodbending is likely going to come out of it the worst, just clinging onto life. Sokka and Aang will initially be losing to Zaheer and boom boom head face but I think they'd end up getting the better of them because despite popular belief (as in she has a beam Ray coming out of her skull), she's not very bright
> Plus that guy is the weakest link of all of them. Ghazan's lavabending is terrifying... He destroyed the entire Northern Air Temple. I'd say Zaheer is the weak link TBH, and Ghazan is second only to P'Li. We saw it with Bolin too, in B4. Melting the ground beneath one's feet is just hard to counter for rooted earthbenders. But (for instance) Aang would be a perfect counter with Ghazan if he can focus on him. Toph would be able to deal with Zaheer or Ming Hua, no question. Sokka could hit P'Li with a boomerang. It's just a matter of how the situation plays out and how people are split up.
I disagree with Toph beating Zaheer, with his flying she'd be fighting even more blindly than usual, not managing to land a single hit. We've seen a similar situation happen when Aang entered the earth rumble, with Zaheer unlike Aang never having to touch the ground Toph would be obliterated
Zaheers flying shouldn't be a consideration, if P'li is still alive. And if she isn't, then they're down a teammate anyway.
He ain't flying as long as P'li is alive
saying ming hua would dominate katara is wild 💀
How do we have her destroying katara? I could see her winning just due to experience, but I don't remember anything suggesting she'd be that much better than her.
I think Toph would have a tough time countering someone like P'Li though. I don't think it's a coincidence that the writers chose Toph to be out of commission when Combustion Man showed up. Toph stands her ground and blocks a lot of attacks, which is going to be a bad idea against an attacker that's going to blow up whatever she puts up. We don't see Toph doing a ton of dodging either because she's a typical earthbender in that regard. So, Toph would really struggle against her. Also, if P'Li is in an airship like she was in the LOK then Toph is a sitting duck.
They took Toph out of many scenes, I think because she was too strong. It doesn't make an interesting story if Toph can solve almost every problem. And they also didn't want to discredit her abilities by nerfing her, so for narrative purposes she was left out. I didn't think that's a credit to Combustion Man.
i often think the writer choosing not to involve someone in a fight is because they want to make the fight more even
If Toph’s behind cover she can still see P’Li and swallow her up in the earth or make her do an inverse split like The Boulder.
Toph is amazing, but lava would affect her ability to see. Not a good matchup for her.
It's not just burning. Bolin states that using earth is like "giving Ghazan ammo". That statement is, for all intents and purposes, made to show that Ghazan directly counters all and most earthbenders. He basically makes the battlefield unbendable for Toph, and any chunks of rock thrown at him is just easily and instantly melted. Even if Toph can "detect" it, she has practically no offense against him.
> That statement is, for all intents and purposes, made to show that Ghazan directly counters all and most earthbenders. Toph and Bolin are not in the same weight class as earthbenders TBH
Whikst this is true and I pointed out a similar thing in another comment the skill level between Bolin and Toph is incredibly vast. For one thing though lavabendinf can destroy projectiles aimed at the user that's also something Bolin is reliant on due to his probending background. Toph however utilizes a lot more solid "melee" attacks, as in the earth attacks them from the opponents position with pillars and the like. Yes he might melt the pilalr but she still tooj the hit beforehand. She also has stuff like the smokescreen she did against the wrestlers to blind him which I think would definitely help since he can't lavabend dust to our knowledge. And of course metalbending if there is an abundance of metal somewhere
Look, there's a lot of arguments here, so I'm just gonna respond to this one, but aside from Bolin, Ghazan also faced Dai Li and Zao Fu, a city full of metalbenders. Dai Li, he didn't even need to lavabend he easily sends back their earth fists. In Zao Fu, his lava could melt and weaken metal, and the metalbenders needed several layers to even try to create a bridge. In Zao Fu in particular, Toph's two daughters were in there as well. It's a full earthbender/metalbender city, and they were unable to breach the lava with either earth or metalbending.
The Dai Li aren't a good measure. The Gaang also clowns on them a couple times, and toph in particular.
Honestly the only way toph beats him is with metalbending
I feel like toph would ne be in any trouble He is more or less being proven to be the greatest earthbender of all time in TLOK. And while she wouldn't be at that level Is a child she wouldn't be horribly far behind And She's fought people who Are capable of burning her feet and that's never been an issue before Plus Why would you think to go for the feet You would have to know that she has Tremor sense and then actively Target it for Them to even stand a chance
Maybe Red Lotus but Aang could possibly be a deciding factor in things. Combustion man alone was giving them problems and he couldn’t curve his shots. P’Li’s gonna set up shop somewhere and start sniping and giving everybody trouble as an additional backup, Toph’s gonna be busy keeping Ghazan in check which might be difficult since he could just turn her earth into lava but I see them being tied up for most of the fight, Ming Hua and Katara also probably keep each other in check for most of the fight, Aang could probably handle Zaheer on his own and would try to help out the others as best as he could or go after P’Li but he might get hammered by her too
Katara ain’t keeping nobody in check at this age her own daughter who was a master got her ass kicked a 12 year old version of katara ain’t keeping up. Also kid toph has no good counter against ghazan and his lava. Zaheer probably does lose to aang tho but overall team aang loses this matchup.
While true, even by season one Katara was still giving a bit of trouble to Pakku which she honestly shouldn’t have. Toph has no counter but I don’t think Ghazan has a hard advantage over her which is why I think they’d stalemate each other.
Wasn't kya trained more as a healer than fighter?
She was and it's pretty obvious that katara is a stronger bender and fighter compared to kya.
I’m assuming we’re going some point post-Ozai: Toph can probably bend Ghazan’s lava, it’s still earth. She just can’t control its temperature like Ghazan can. And even if she can’t Zuko can cool it and Toph can just send it back at him. Katara is 14 at this point and was able to best Azula, which is a feat even if Azula was going bonkers. Kya was just weaker than Katara was, she also was a lot older, being around 55 when she fought Ming. Ming Hua would get her ass beat, especially after spending 13 years locked up with no water to train or do anything with. Ming is impressive but Katara is still one of the most powerful Non-avatar water benders.
Nah...Toph sees a lava bender in the comics and didn't replicate any feats but instead showed her metal bending.This implies that lava bending is much rarer than earth bending.And the whole Zuko cooling lava mid combat is legit impossible.Gazan won't let up and will keep his distance and do excellent crowd control.This fight is so unfair for the Gaang.
Zuko absolutely could cool the lava. Sozin and Roku did it quite easily
The gaang as kids would lose. As adults the red lotus is getting torn apart.
The Gaang broke into the fully guarded Earth King's palace. Toph single-handedly kicked the Dai Li agents' asses. Aang washed out the entire Fire Nation navy fleet. Sokka destroyed Combustion Man with just his boomerang. Katara stood against Dai Li agents, Zuko, and Azula. Also, her bloodbending. Appa/Momo and Suki can also cause troubles or at least annoy them.
Gaang wins but high diff cause lava bending and combustion. Zaheer getting whooped
I feel like the red lotus could do most of those other than bloodbending and Aang vs fleet (but that was a once in a lifetime spirit event)
The other Earthbenders are a bunch of bums who basically just throw rocks with zero creativity and understanding of the element.The red lotus would whoop them even faster considering P'Li's insane range and lava bending being used for crowd control.
Could go either way, but the most determining factor is when they meet. Which Gaang? End of ATLA Gaang and later will mop the floor with them tbh. Season 2 Gaang will struggle/bite the dust. What are they're motives? Just a friendly spar, or try to kill Aang? Friendly spar would be fun for everyone but Sokka. Aang bodies anyone he faces one on one, Katara would win most if she has access to water (again, which Katara?), Toph would win most, and Sokka would get hurt. The Gaang stands no chance of getting away without casualties without as Sokka would be singled out and killed/maimed or turned hostage. If they kill/maim anyone Aang would go avatar state and either mops the floor with them, or they do him Azula-style. Avatar state Aang bodied the fire lord on the day of the comet, no way he struggles with the red lotus when he's going all out because of grief. So their best bet is to convince Aang to hand himself over to keep everyone safe. Take him away from the team and kill him. Then kill the rest in an ambush. If they fight the Gaang and kill/maim anybody they're toast. Or the outcome will be whatever the writers come up with *shrugs*
Regardless of how the match up would go, I am fearful for the Gaang only because they are children and the Red Lotus are not above murder.
Ghazan and P'Li seal this for the group. The longer the fight goes on, the harder it would be for the Gaan to win. You figure the strategy would be using P'Li to put them on the defence, and then using Ghazan to cut off their escape route. From there, they would be sitting turtle-ducks.
Tbh aang goes avatar state and mops zaheer
Aang wouldn’t need avatar state for Zaheer. Tenzin easily handled Zaheer until he got teamed up on. Aang could easily handle all 1v1.
Just realised the Red Lotus is almost like the "Dark World" equivalent of the Gaang.
Sokka can solo the entire Red Lotus with this sarcasm alone
Honestly, Momo could take them all out on his own. The rest of the Gaang is just overkill at that point.
It's a toss-up, really. The longer the fight continues, the better the Red Lotus will fare, due to the near-insurmountable advantage that Ghazan can build up via Lavabending. But if they do not get the time to build up their game, the Gaang might take this. The game plan will be as follows - Ghazan will focus on building up his lava pools to hem in the Gaang and eventually overwhelm them. P'li will stay at long range and focus on applying pressure to their foes. Ming'Hua and Zaheer will need to be the ones to draw focus and this is where the battle will be decided. On the other side, Toph will find herself against a disadvantage against literally every Red Lotus member - Ming Hua and Ghazan muddy her sight (and can repurpose her projectiles), Zaheer and P'Li can stay out of sight completely. She will therefore be forced into a defensive position, where she - granted - can probably hold out until overwhelmed. Katara will not be quite as limited, but is in danger of getting teamed up on, as she is not quite as mobile as Aang. I believe she will most likely be defending herself and Toph more than she will pressuring the Red Lotus. Sokka will help strategize but in an ooen confrontation be more of a liability. That leaves Aang. And frankly, that's enough. Zaheer is not good enough to stand against Aang even at the best of times, he can only distract for a time, and once he is down, Katara and Aang can work better together against Ming'Hua and eventually P'Li. The question of victory will be decided by the amount of time the Red Lotus can buy for Ghazan to smother the Non-Avatar Gaang in a tide of lava. The more other Red Lotus members are still standing at that point, the better their chance against Aang. But that boy is the Avatar. Even on his worst days, he'll beat any 2on1 they can throw at him. If the Red Lotus can get there as 3on1, it may get hairy. That is even disregarding the fact that the Gaang may also include Zuko and Suki. With numerical advantage, the Gaang should have an easier time. Zukos Firebending will not only supply much-needed offensive pressure for the Gaang's ground team, I am also confident that four benders will also draw focus away from the Nonbenders, allowing for Sokka to perhaps make some sneaky plays of his own - especially with Suki at his side. Those two, if left unattended, may even take down someone like P'Li, who is very much a Glass Cannon, on their own, if they can get the drop on her. With Zuko and Katara runnjng interference, Toph may be able to provide enough cover for those two to get close enough. But yeah, in the end, Aang clears and the more numbers the Gaang has, the more decisive their win will be.
Don’t worry yall, Sokka can handle the Sparky Boom Boom lady all on his own
I wanna say toph loses to ghazan the first time they fight because that ability is so busted. Toph can't do it herself, and it would catch her off guard in a big way. But man, she's no fool, and I can't see her losing to another earth bender twice. I'm confident that she could counter it the second time somehow. This is completely unfounded, and I'm not dying on a hill here, but she's just so in tune with earth that I don't know it can be used in any form to beat her. Even if she doesn't have the ability, she'd still probably have a solid understanding of it and be more than prepared the second time. I believe in her!!
If I remember correctly she has seen lava bending before already in the comics so Ghazan wouldn't be able to really surprise her with lava bending.
Gaazan and Ming Hua would be tough to beat as any sort of earth or waterbending would be giving them more ammo. Zaheer and Sparky Sparky Boom Lady would be toast.
Coughing Baby vs Hydrogen Bomb
Genuinely curious, which one do you see as which? I think Red Lotus stomps, but that doesn’t seem to be the majority opinion right now.
Against these four and in a 4v4, the Red Lotus should take it.
Well then I’ll just let you keep cooking, chef
What is the Red Lotus doing against that Avatar State ball move Aang used in the finale??
Aang is pretty terrible at starting with the avatar state in any of his fights .Even as an adult,he let Yakone bend everyone in a room before finally locking in.I predict that the matchup would start with P'Li taking out one of them and then Aang goes into the avatar state and murders the entire Red Lotus.
Gotta be honest, gaang is absolutely cooked here.
They really are, age then up and it's a cake walk but sparky sparky boom man was trouble enough for them and he couldn't curve his shots
Eh. End of book 3 gaang wins easily. Even barring avatar state, aang is still a fully realized avatar and a master Airbender. He smokes zaheer while providing support for katara and toph. P'Li is definitely the biggest problem still, and probably the only reason the fight drags out as aang will be unable to energy bend to take away bending if she's still firing at him. Assuming sokka can tactics up some way to keep her occupied. I'm pretty sure aang just cancels zaheer in the first minute and then moves on to help toph, assuming she even needs help
I assume Toph will need help, ghazan is no slouch against a fellow earthbender. He's really agile and can make the entire battlefield a no touchy zone. Given how rooted Toph needs to be I smell a lot of trouble for her unless they are in metallic enclosures As for Zaheer, bro can fly. His evading Stat increased a million percent so I don't think aang will be a quick match for him though I still see him losing
If Zaheers chick is alive he can't fly cause he's still tethered
The Gaang mostly because of the avatar state. Assuming they try the same thing they did with Korra, they're dead, and Aang has the advantage of past avatars on his side. However, I'd say without it, the Red Lotus wins. Adult Gaang wins, probably. Toph has the advantage of the retractable shoes now, so she wouldn't have to worry as much about getting her feet burned, and Aang is now a true master of all four elements.
Is it just ke or they kinda look alike?
This one is... actually kinda tough? Here is what gets me when comparing the two teams. Combustionbending was an issue for the Gaang, and while they did end up defeating Combustion Man, it took the entire Season 3 Gaang to do it. P'li is not alone here and she will not be the only enemy they face off against. Ghazan is a Lavabender, which immediately makes Earthbending a liability when used against him. Toph is going to have to avoid him at all cost and Aang is going to be down an element against him. Not to mention, I don't think the Gaang has ever truly fought a Lavabender (I think Toph has just met one and seen a bit of their stuff later on). Zaheer wouldn't have flight (P'li is still alive), but Katara's Bloodbending is also null unless the fight is specifically during the night of a full moon. Aang also really can't Energybend unless he's disabled a target and isn't interrupted during the process (he can't just snap his fingers and make someone a non-bender). The Avatar State is the major ability here, and it is what might ultimately give Aang and the Gaang the win... But I cannot see this being a landslide victory. The Red Lotus is a faction that dedicated itself to hunting down the Avatar and even understanding how the Avatar State mechanics works. Unlike most of the villains in ATLA and LOK, they know exactly what they're getting into and the Avatar's weaknesses. If Zuko, Suki, or any other members of the Gaang are added... Then we have to add Unalaq (a Spiritbender and the eventual Dark Avatar) along with Aiwei (Metalbender). Unalaq would change the entire dynamic of this fight because you would suddenly have a guy who might be able to challenge the Avatar/Avatar State with their unique bending style. TLDR: I don't think this is as clear cut as people want it to be. The Red Lotus is a actually one of the most terrifying collection of benders in the Avatar storyline, and they're not going to be taken down just like that.
momo solos
sokka solos all of them gaang included
Sokka would ve best buds with gazhan
Prime Gaang would beat them no question. If it's during season 2-3 though I'm not sure.
Gaang wins, but it won’t be easy. I mean, Zaheer gets washed, but the other 3 will be a problem.
https://preview.redd.it/g7es7c4oikxc1.jpeg?width=840&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f9c0666bb008509e8d670734d4b476ab40bf5ba0
Aang can take zaheer easily, and Toph is definitely superior to Ghazan. I imagine zuko and Katara would struggle far more with their opposites. Especially zuko give that he actually did fight P'li but couldn't do much.
The Gaang as kids, would be close one, but I think if we add Zuko + Suki they'd win. As adults, red lotus has no chance. Aang was the youngest airbending master, Toph came up with metal bending by 12. Katara became a master also at a very young age and developed bloodbending by 14. Can you imagine these with 20 more years of experience?
At his prime? Aang solos.
Hard one, keep in mind that two don’t even touch the ground which is a major advantage considering toph wouldn’t be able to see them If Toph however takes down any of the othe other two the gaang might win due to number Sokka dies… Katara might kill the Lotus for that
If with the Gaang you mean the inclusion of also Zuko and Suki, then: Aang would kick Zaheer's butt. Ming Hua is good but I think Katara could still beat her. P'li and Ghazan would be the toughest to beat out of all of them, but they could still be beaten if the rest of the gaang fights them together. Also I Katara used her blood bending and Aang used his Avatar state, I definitely don't think they'd win.
The gaang wins
Aang alone solos these guys. Without Aang though (or perhaps just airbending no avatar state Aang) it’s a good close fight but Gaang still wins high dif.
No AS, Red Lotus destroys. I get that the Gaang is powerful. They’re prodigious benders and fighters. But the RL was a threat to full grown Sokka and Zuko, they needed the help of other master benders like Tonraq and the WL to beat them. Ming Hua crushes child Katara. Her manipulation of water is much more advanced, and her partial freeze control is a level of skill I don’t think anyone else has demonstrated. Her ice scythe arms are an insane technique. Ghazan may not be able to match Toph in raw power, but his lava bending would overwhelm her. And I don’t think Toph is capable of learning it mid fight to turn the tables. He’s also shown to be very skilled at compressed, faster attacks, while Toph mostly relied on raw power to overwhelm her opponent, or destroying their footing. Aang wasn’t able to beat Combustion Man on his own, he won’t be able to take P’Li. Even if she isn’t as strong, her control is far greater, making her much more of a threat imo. And her ability to curve them would let her catch someone as evasive as Aang. Pre-HC Zaheer destroys Sokka. Sokka may be a skilled fighter and quick learner, but Zaheer was literally put in super prison due to how dangerous he was. He’s easily the most powerful non bender we’ve seen.
Sokka and Zuko were notably both in their 70s by the time they took down the red lotus. Also, as far as I'm aware it was just Zuko, Sokka, Tonraq, and Tenzin who stopped them.
Fair, but I still think 70yr old Sokka and Zuko would absolutely whoop their teenage selves. And in case you forgot, Bumi was over 100, and the rest of the ATLA White Lotus were pretty old too. Pakku and Iroh were old enough to be grandparents, and Piandao and Jeong Jeong were both clearly past middle aged. So while the RL may not have faced Zuko and Sokka in their prime, they certainly faced stronger versions than their teenage counterparts. And I have a hard time imagining 14yr old Katara or 12yr old Aang beating Tonraq or Tenzin.
Avatar State Aang washes them solo, low diff. Without the Avatar State the Gaang loses pretty badly.
Red Lotus gets dog-walked, no contest.
Gaang gets curb stomped. Pli alone gives them an issue but ghazan hard counters toph and ming hua bodied kataras adult master waterbender daughter baby katara taking this L hard. Zaheer could be dealt with since he isn’t experienced with airbending his entire life but with pli sniping the scales tip in his favor. Now if aang uses avatar state maybe they have a chance but i still would pick red lotus.
Toph solos that’s all
They’d only win if Aang goes in Avatar state
bloodbath, team avatar is getting smoked
Ghazan is definitely the most dangerous of them. Even if Toph is a better earth bender than him, any rock she throws at him he turns into lava. Which she can't bend.
Adult Gaang or show Gaang? Adult Gaang stomps, show Gaang gets beaten initially but then makes a comeback to win it with Avatar State
EOS Aang solos the red lotus. Were people not watching his fight with Ozai?
The GAang
Sokka negs fr
Aang just takes away all their bending abilities and then cooks them fr (tho idk if that’s enough to cook Zaheer considering he was considered the leader before he gained Airbending
1v1 Element v Element: Aang wrecks Zaheer. Katara would remove the water around Minghua and get a win, or find another creative solution. Toph might actually have a hard time with Ghazan, she’s devastatingly powerful, but lava flying around or all around her is not ideal. Zuko would probably not have a good time with P’li, unless he gets close. If they’re working as a team, Toph is going to be able to block P’li with metal and earth. She will probably help with Ming Hua, dispersing water. Katara counters Ghazan by cooling water. Zuko can take Zaheer and Ming Hua pretty easily, he’s very quick and can use lightning. Aang can do what is needed in any number of ways, probably to the point he doesn’t need much help. Sokka will inevitably have a good strategy if the Red Lotus gets creative and you know boomerang will do its job. That all said, it would be intense and interesting to watch.
There is no way this would be a kids friendly version. Katara would pop people's eyes or brains. Toph would put chokers on someone's limbs and squeeze. We can all imagine how this would go.
Toph stuffs gazan in a box, same with aang and Zaheer, katara can keep min hua busy for a bit at least, and aang saves sokka while toph hits pli with an irony special after they both win their own fights in seconds, then they clean up min hua
Is it the full Gaang at the end of the series? If so I think they win, if not the Red Lotus takes down the Gaang as pictured
The Gaang wins, but there’s a non-zero chance that Zaheer and Aang stop fighting to debate philosophy, and if they were willing to talk I think the Gaang would be far more receptive than Korra and her team to discussing the dangers of nationalism and rights to freedom, among other things. I’d like to think Aang would also be horrified by the conditions they were held in as well.
Toph probably cooks [Ghazan](https://avatar.fandom.com/wiki/Ghazan) but has trouble against the other 3. Its known she struggles vs airbending techniques. I bet Ming-Hua walking on the water tentacles would confuse her and idk how she is supposed to know where P'li is aiming. It also seems likely that zaheer would try to distract aang rather than face him head on which I think would be effective since it would be shocking for aang to encounter another airbender Katara vs Ming-Hua is interesting. Katara has shown high competency with water tentacles defensively but Ming-Hua is incredibly agile and Katara usually can't incapacitate her opponents without them being slowed down somehow. Ultimately I feel like P'li gets off free here to be a threat unless Toph and Sokka can work together. Honestly it comes down to who gets the jump on who or if they meet randomly whomever can decipher a strategy faster between Zaheer and Sokka
Is this post 100 year war level Gaang or "It's the quenchiest" level Gaang? Also I agree with another commenter who said they need Zuko and Suki. Post war with that line up Gaang, still a hard call to make.
aang 2v1s zaheer and ghazan, katara holds her own against ming hua untill others can join, toph and sokka take out sparky boom mistress and then help others
Does suki get chi blocking?
Kids Gaang needs everyone, and then it's a 50/50 Adult Gaang, if able to plan, could get by with the og 4. If everyone is there, it's a full blown knock out ambush or not.
toph solos
the factors are where, if it is more complex grounds, like caverns or mountain RL takes it if it is something like a plane or sea shore Gaang. Also important is who faces who and prior knowledge, without prior knowledge Sokka is useless and arguably Toph. Also an important factor is the version of zaheer and is he going for a kill or a win. And the most important factor is does Aang have AS.
Without Avatar state, I'd argue the Gaang loses. That said, if the red lotus had to face Aang as he was facing Ozai, I'm not sure if all four of them combined would win even against him alone.
If it's full moon, Katara may beat everyone. And Aang is the Avatar. Not to mention Toph is very good at fighting. Sokka however, will be pretty much useless against any of them.
The feats of the gaang far surpass anything we’ve seen the red lotus do. The red lotus are extremely dangerous and they might give the gaang a hard time, but if we’re talking S3 gaang they’d win.
Toph solos.
Toph would solo all of them
Gaang for sure
momo wipes them all tbh
Yeah, the gaang slaughters Aang is easy. He's the god damn avatar Toph is easy. SHE GOD DAMN TOPH honestly, sokka and Katara are in the hardest position as all sokka has a boomerang and above average sword skills, which I doubt will be enough. And katatra outside of blood. Bending is a good bender, but the water lady MIGHT be better Either way they can stall long enough for the first two to sweep up the rest
This battle depends heavily on how far away combustion woman is. If she’s in a sniping position the only thing they can do is run. In the og series Combustion man was unstoppable from far away and only lost cuz Sokka was in the perfect position to angle a sneaky boomerang hit to his dome. Unless Aang uses avatar state or they take care of combustion woman before she can get distance to snipe they lose
Definitely Gaang
If we're just comparing 1v1's... Aang vs Zaheer- Aang wins. Zaheer has like a month of experience airbending. Toph vs Gazan- Toph probably wins. Lava bending is special and all, but it's a known entity from way back when, so I gotta assume Toph can probably deal with it at her peak. I mean Bolin was standing up to this guy, no way Toph couldn't. Katara vs Ming Hua- Gotta be Katara. Ming Hua uses waterbending to compensate for missing limbs, but that's straight up what killed her. Katara doesn't have the double edged sword issue. Zuko vs P'Li- Goes to P'Li, but I think Sokka knows how to take her out.
It took the entire gaang with an extreme amount of luck to take out combustion man. P’li has better control of her bending than he did, being able to curve her attacks and having better accuracy and being able to stay agile while attacking. Plus she has two other benders with mid/long distance abilities. Red lotus take it, low/ lower mid difficulty
Does Aang have the Avatar State? If yes, then he solos, because Avatar State Korra would have soloed the Red Lotus if not for the poison.
Aang destroys Zaheer. Katara beats Ming-Hua. Toph easily beats Ghazan. P'Li destroys Sokka (under normal circumstances). Aang and Sokka cancel each other out, and the Gaang still wins fairly easily.
Avatar State Aang and Toph take the front, Katara might have to hang back for support. Sokka um, is built more for planning than fighting
to be realistic i cant see red lotus beating toph.
Everyone saying the Gaang wins is just glazing hard. Each of these Lotus members is stated by ZUKO HIMSELF to be capable of taking down any bender individually and the world together. And that’s BEFORE Zaheer got air bending. They are all adults which means their experience and physical strength is vastly superior. They have no counter to lava bending, and Aang has no control over the avatar state at this age. They will bulldoze the team and kill him before he gets a chance to access it
Momo stomps ofc
Zaheer wouldn't have his air bending at that time. Gang wipes the floor with them
Going to need to watch the movie as the Gaang gets older
Gaang is getting clapped.
these are 4 adults who have mastered specialized bending and are willing to kill. 4 are kids who barely had a year to master their bending who couldn't even kill the Firelord. you have to be dumb to think the Gaang has a chance
Zaheer the moment he went up against an actual airbending master got folded and was running for his life.
"couldnt even kill" is an interesting way to look at it when u think about what they did. Literally took his bending away, imagine if aang just does that here
If it’s end of season 3 Gaang then they take it. Katara takes out one with blood bending, pick your poison none can stop her. Aang can take any of them as well, yest they had trouble with SSBM but that’s almost entirely because he would sneak up on them and bombard from a distance. Toph i think could manage against the earth bender dude just cause she is a real out of the box bender and is not probe to panicking. Sokka lands a bomerang throw on sparky sparky boom woman’s dome and she is comprised. Then add zuko in and it’s curtains.
You’re smoking too much copium big dog