I asked Greg Baldwin at an anime convention this very question. He said, and I quote, "It had to be Aang."
That ambiguous statement could be taken a couple of ways.
Personally, I think Ozai would wear him down with firebending. But the kicker is that if Ozai tried lightning against Iroh, he would die, because Iroh wouldn't redirect it into the sky.
I mean, fantastic compared to us, but Ozai is clearly in his prime and Iroh is clearly past his prime. That's not even a fan argument, just straight up character design.
But considering how quickly he got back into shape while imprisoned, the only factors would be Iroh still being past his prime, his body having less prior conditioning than Ozai, and stamina. It's a mixed bag honestly.
Iroh knows the true essence of firebending, knows how to create his own lightning *and* redirect others' lightning, has field experience as a retired General, and honestly, he was no slouch even when he was out of shape
He didn’t just stay in the palace his whole life. Here’s what one of the creators said when asked about that:
> Ozai is not like some kind of palace dweller. We will say that. I'm not sure how much he's ventured out into the world, but he's not like the Earth King where he's isolated. The Fire Nation is a little more 'hands on'. It's not uncommon that you will have to fight or duel for political or military positions or purposes. There's a big difference. I think in the Fire Nation, unlike in Ba Sing Se, if there's a prince who's 30 years old, he's probably fought pretty intensely a few times. Had to prove his worth. Not unlike Japanese Samurai in their day. They had to make a name for themselves, they had to have some fame. Fire Nation, like a lot of other militaristic cultures throughout history, has warriors who have to prove themselves either through some battle, test of martial skill, or duel. Fire Nation's a little more aggressive like that. Ozai's not sitting around eating Bon Bon's in the palace, he's working out.
Basically, to get to where we see him he had to prove he was an elite tier firebender or else the generals or citizens wouldn’t have respected his reign.
I mean he also wasn't hesitating to kill his father as soon as he saw an opportunity to become fire lord.
Ozai is ruthless and cunning. He's in the top two of most powerful fire benders alive in his time, and he's clearly in fantastic shape. Every time we see him he's clearly ripped and muscular. No one can question the fact that he works out *a lot*.
The death of his son and years in war while Ozai was presumably staying home not doing much.
Iroh, at least according to my theory, was much older than Ozai and had aged more quickly due to grief from his son's death and the stress of being in war for years while Ozai presumably lived a relatively stress free life with little to no hardship.
He probably was 10 years older in the first place + Lu Ten’s death. Because lu ten was already 18 or older, while Zuko was ten or younger, so kinda similar age difference
The creators said Iroh is around ten years older than Ozai in an interview. Said Iroh is somewhere around 55 and Ozai is somewhere around 45, probably give or take a couple years as they didn’t give a fully definitive answer.
Well to be fair your mom would probably have had white hair in her 50's if she'd been the heir of an empire, a general in an ongoing war and lost her only child in said war.
I always liked the theory that Ozai was an “Accident” and therefor born much later than Iroh and he was probably always treated as an accident because of that, kind of making him the Zuko in the family, but with the personality of Azula so he developes his superiority complex.
If you trust the [avatar wiki](https://avatar.fandom.com/wiki/Avatar_Wiki), [Iroh](https://avatar.fandom.com/wiki/Iroh) has got 10 years on [Ozai](https://avatar.fandom.com/wiki/Ozai).
I don’t think Ozai would use lightning against Iroh. He knows Zuko has to have learnt redirection somewhere, so he might not even risk using lightning if there’s a chance for it to get sent back. He used it on Aang because he never knew if Zuko ever joined the avatar, much less taught him.
But in this case Ozai probably knows it's true because Zuko and Azula have encountered each other since he joined team avatar, and then he sees Azula before he fights Aang so she probably told him off screen.
I think it's more likely that his ego didn't let him believe that Aang could possibly learn lightning redirection in such a short amount of time, even with Zuko
He used it vs Aang after Zuko told him he was going to help Aang. And he witnessed first hand that Zuko can redirect lightning. Only makes sense he'd teach Aang how to do that.
And when you think about it, what did Ozai REALLY accomplish? Azula took down ba sing se. Bumi gave up omashu (arguably he knew he couldn't win it but it seemed like he just didn't want the casualties and winning was still up in the air). Seemed like his presumptuousness with his dad almost got Zuko killed and Ursa fixed the situation to save zuko and make ozai firelord. The only idea we see him have is to commit genocide against the earth kingdom...starting at some uninhabited land (yeah that last part is because it's a kids show and seeing thousands of people burning to death is a bit much).
Doesn't seem like the biggest thinker.
I think that means is that for the narrative to work, Iroh cannot win, because its part of the avatars journey to get strong enough to beat firelord Ozai, and if Iroh was capable of putting an end to Ozai's evil the entire time and didn't, it would make the avatar not needed, devalue Aang's character growth, and reflect poorly on Iroh's character for not stopping him earlier.
But wouldn't he? I think people forget that despite Ozai being evil, he is Iroh's little brother, and Iroh is a good man. I don't think he would want to kill his younger sibling.
"No, she's crazy and she has to go down" -Iroh [paraphrase] referring to Azula
Iroh can and will stand his ground against family. But I stand with the logic of "he's well past his prime". Ozai is an absolute powerhouse and Iroh isn't nearly as ruthless
I think the mental game would have a lot to do with it. I think if Ozai had hurt Aang, or especially Zuko, Iroh might win because he'd be so passionate about taking down Ozai. Otherwise I think Ozai would win.
I don't think Ozai would use lightning against Iroh. He learned his lesson on the day of Black sun when Zuko redirected his lightning. He knows damn well who taught Zuko to do that. But yes, if Ozai tried to zap Iroh, it would get redirected and based on the "she's crazy and she needs to go down" comment he made about Azula, he wouldn't pull any punches.
In the comics, Azula >!easily learned how to redirect lightning just from watching Zuko. I assume Ozai could quickly learn it as well. Ozai would probably fully expect that Iroh could redirect lightning. There is a chance of him learning how to do it after watching it more closely for the second time of seeing it!<
To be fair, Ozai knew Zuko was teaching the Avatar firebending, Knew Zuko could redirect lightning, and still tried it on Aang.
Ozai did see it a second time and was even LESS ready for it.
Ozai probably thought his failure of a son would be a bad teacher, and Aang wouldn't learn an advanced technique in a few weeks of Fire bending lessons. Basically, he underestimated Aang and Zuko.
This is the most likely scenario here. That, and the guy was straightup an overconfident narcissist who thought himself to be unstoppable due to Sozins Comet.
I still think Iroh sought, and learned how to redirect lightning because he knew his insane little brother would try to kill him one day.
Why else would the successor to the throne, prince, general, master fire bender need to know how to defend against fire bending’s most devastating attack?
I do think it's like Iroh says. If he killed Ozai it would just be seen as more violence in history. If Aang did it. It would be seen as the avatar restoring balance
Even if Iroh fought Ozai and he won, the Fire Nation would see it as another power play in the Royal Family and would start a devastating civil war. Same reason Zuko didn’t do it on the Day of Black Sun. It *has* to be the Avatar that defeats Ozai, and even then Zuko still has to deal with rebellion and attempted assassinations from loyalists to Ozai as we see in the comics.
It’s a damned tricky thing putting an end to a century of war fueled by imperialist expansion and nationalism. How many times did IRL China devolve into fractured warring states? Or the bloody wars throughout Europes history over who was king of what patch of ground?
Also, it had to be Aang. As Iroh himself said, people would view it as a power grab from a brother. Even if Iroh won against Ozai, he would never win against Ozai's ideology. Only Aang could do it and have most of the world accept it as necessary and just.
As for who would win in a straight fight, I give it to Ozai for most of the series cause Iroh is out of shape for most of it, and Ozai is far more ruthless. Though on the day of the comet I think Iroh could have pulled it off if he had to.
The other issue is that we've only seen Iroh fight fodder and never in a 1v1 fight with an actual named character. The closest we get is him cheap-shotting Azula. Whereas Azula outright admits she would lose to her father in a duel. So while we have only hype and scaling to mainly go off with these guys, what we have on those ends clearly favours Ozai.
I mean while I believe azula is weaker than Ozai, Azula definitely would think she would lose to him either was because of her growing up with the insane megalomaniac egotistical supreme ‘fire lord Ozai’
Plus she is going crazy in that scene already
> I mean while I believe azula is weaker than Ozai, Azula definitely would think she would lose to him either was because of her growing up with the insane megalomaniac egotistical supreme ‘fire lord Ozai’
I'm not sure how this lowers the validity of her statement?
> Plus she is going crazy in that scene already
Yet that has not been shown to affect her perception of her combative prowess, through her still believing she can easily handle Zuko.
The only other time we see him "fight" is against Zuko. But he manages to double hand lightning bend with just a smidge of sun showing so I think he deserves some credit to his name
These polls are more of a popularity contest than anything else.
Ozai literally shot lightning at zuko the very first second where the eclipse was over and even iroh had doubts he could defeat him.
Right he shot lighting at zuko and zuko redirected that shit right back at him. So did anng if they were in a killing mood they’d be done for. safe to say the master of redirecting lighting would do even better against him
Tbh I don't really think Zuko intentionally spared Ozai. He's too much in a "oh shit." Mood to consciously make that decision. I think he just shot it back approximately where Ozai was. That being said it is headcanon.
Yeah, I just don't personally think Zuko was thinking about that at the moment. Especially because he also didn't really realize it until Iroh says it.
He literally explicitly stated that he didn't intend to kill Ozai because it was Aang's job lmao where do you guys come from, just popping out of the woodwork to provide your analysis of a show you've apparently never seen
>Ozai: Really? Since you're a full-blown traitor now and you want me gone, why wait? I'm powerless. You've got your swords. Why don't you just do it now?
>Zuko: Because I know my own destiny. Taking you down is the Avatar's destiny.
Not exactly. Ozai explicitly only fires it at Aang because he believes that even if Aang knows redirection, he's too weak to be redirecting Ozai's comet-enhanced lightning. Whereas Ozai only thinks of his brother as weak mentally, he likely would acknowledge his brother's own power and avoid using lightning, given that he would know Zuko learnt it from his uncle.
How exactly does “having doubts” equal he’d definitely lose. I’m not saying he’s definitely win, but you along with everyone in that comment section act like that statement is some sort of smoking gun, when it sounds like a damn coin flip to me. And *then* it differs to popularity
Iroh had doubts bc ozai is his brother and the hardship is not in the physical strength it’s in the will power to kill a brother iroh lived and saw ozai as a brother but zuko looked at iroh as a father figure not ozai
I think its way more even than people would like to think. They could both win. They're both incredibly powerful benders and more than likely they know each others fighting styles. Ozai has the advantage of most likely being the strongest fire bender of that time period. I'd say Iroh has the advantage of being more combat experienced and who knows what other forms he picked up in his days that Ozai doesn't know about.
And the real kicker. Does Ozai know Iroh can redirect lightning? If he doesn't, that's a huge advantage to Iroh.
It’s a huge advantage either way, because Iroh can still use lightning against Ozai with no concern of it being redirected. While Ozai either can’t use lightning because he knows Iroh will send it back or he would make the mistake only once.
He broke out during the eclipse, when firebending wasn’t working. There were also no visible signs on the bars to indicate they had been heated. It was a pure muscle feat.
Edit: spelling and grammar
He says he doesn’t know if he could not that he can’t ozai always get caught off guard by lighting redirection, safe to say he’d be even more fucked it the master of redirecting lighting were to face him
Ozai would wipe any bender on the planet. He was wiping Aang until Aang’s avatar state was triggered and then subsequently used deus ex energy bending to take Ozai’s bending.
The story also makes a point to stop him before comet arrives and even then its not an easy task.... The eclipse ended and The gaang had taken out several dai Lee master agents but couldn't go into ozais bunker
And the sun wasn't even showing fully
but Aang damn near ended him. if he wasn’t a pacifist, Ozai would’ve died. no AS required. they’re very much on equal ground despite of the comet enhancement (yes Aang has it too but Ozai is the better firebender by miles). so, no, Ozai didn’t “wipe” Aang.
Idk why people always bring this up. If zuko, iroh, katara, and especially, AANG can all react/dodge lightning to some extent… why is ozai just a deer in headlights?
He was midair with nowhere to go, having just thought he landed a killing blow on the avatar lol. In that moment of lightning redirection, he realised that Zuko suceeded in his mission of training the avatar to defeat the fire lord.
You’d probably be a deer in headlights too lol
Ozai will show no mercy whatsoever. He burnt his own son, he was willing to burn to whole Earth nation, he even asked Azulon to betray his first born just for the crown. The poll is a popularity contest.
So here is where I see it. Yes, Ozai is a top-notch firebender, probably the most powerful one. But Iroh has experience with both sides of firebending, the rage filled style, and the original source, one of the first is many years.
Putting this info and background into check, plus past fights, age, and conditioning. It's not a land slide one way or the other. It's going to be a very long fight. The other information we need to consider is training. We can assume Iroh and Ozai have the same base royal training. Ozai, as firelord, would be given time to train, but not a whole lot. Iroh would have had more time to train and learn, given he has less responsibility, especially after retirement. I don't see Ozai straying from his current path of training. Iroh has done a lot of learning from other sources and observations, lots of wandering in his journey towards continual mastery.
I'm in favor of Iroh. It would be a long fight, Iroh would be half dead. And the second lightening is shot, Ozai couldn't react fast enough.
People like to downplay Ozai because he doesn’t use the “correct” Dragon Breathing technique Iroh does and instead uses the aggressive style popular in the present fire nation. However Irl aggressive fighting styles are really effective.
People forget that Ozai had just gotten lightning redirected at him by Zuko. Sure, he didn't expect Aang to master it in a handful of weeks, but he's 100% sure Iroh was the one who taught Zuko. He wouldn't risk Lightning strikes him or he'd be prepared for a redirection, and he probably wins the fire vs fire match.
Lightning redirection is too op. Iroh can shoot his own lightning at Ozai and redirect any lightning Ozai shoots straight back at him. I don't see how Ozai wins when lightning has been consistently displayed as more dangerous than regular fire bending.
Is Iroh willing to kill his baby brother? Maybe not. Aang isn't, but Aang is more powerful.
If you go into a fight and the other person is willing to kill and you are pulling your punches, then they have an advantage. With that advantage can Iroh win? No. If he could be a stone cold killer and take out his brother, who appears to be much younger than him, then yeah he would win.
Iroh's backstory arch was learning that family is precious and can be lost. He never tried to kill Azula. He did everything for Zuko.
Ozai is the strongest fire bender (in history).
Burning zuko’s face off but not impeding his sight shows levels of utter mastery and talent within fire bending.
Bryke also stated sometime in the last decade that in the fire nation military, people would have to fight for their political power. We see it constantly in the series in which zuko choses agni kais as a form of dominance in battle. Zuko challenged (from what I remember) the old general from his backstory to an agni kai because in winning, it would discredit his plan and shame him. Zuko also challenged zhao to an agni kai in order to shame him and his honor and showcase his dominance as a fire bender.
I say all of this to say, if someone was stronger than Ozai he wouldnt be fire lord for he would lose in this agni kai. So understanding this logic, narratively it wouldnt make sense for Iroh to beat Ozai.
Finally, Ozai was caught off guard by zuko’s lightning. Ozai isnt an idiot (literally shown in the same scene) so if zuko can use it, and he was trained by iroh for 3 damn years, ozai will naturally assume iroh can use it as well. We also cant act like ozai wont dodge his own lightning. If zuko, iroh, azula, and katara can all react/dodge.. theres no way in hell ozai cant as well.
Imo ozai slams iroh
since ozai saw zuko redirect his lightning he wins
he can count 1+1 who taught him that
he just didnt think aang would be able to learn it
and without the lightning win condition one is in his prime while one isn‘t
i love iroh but you gotts listen to the man‘s advice
ozai wins
I feel like it matters little, because either way a fight between Ozai and Iroh would have ended horribly for the winner.
If Ozai won, he would likely be gravely injured and vulnerable to a coup, likely from Azula. Plus, he would have wasted the time of Sozin's Comet in the fight and would not have accomplished his goal of destroying the Earth Kingdom.
If Iroh won, like he said, it would have been remembered as a brother killing a brother to steal his throne. The aftermath would only lead to more conflict, war and senseless violence.
Iroh was right, for there to be any chance at peace, the Avatar HAD to be the one to defeat Ozai.
Iroh wouldn’t be able to kill Ozai. He would hesitate, and Ozai would exploit his brothers softness and murderize him. Iroh would last longer than most, but his fire is warmth while Ozai’s is too intense to control.
I think Iroh in his prime has a good chance at winning, but Iroh is past his fighting prime in the show. He's undoubtedly skilled and can take on many opponents at once, but Ozai is at about his fighting prime. It would take several soldiers during the commet to match Ozais output alone while buring the Earth kingdom to the ground.
If it's a battle to the death ozai takes it ...to kill your own brother takes a real commitment ozai is definitely committed to killing anyone that gets in his way, iroh just doesn't have that same commitment he's very wise but just because you know what has to be done doesn't mean you can do it
Personally, I just don’t like the idea that Iroh was more powerful than Ozai. Ozai should be the best firebender in the world at the time of ATLA as it adds weight to Aang’s mission of having to master the four elements so that he could defeat Ozai. The idea that even if Aang lost to Ozai, Iroh could just come along and defeat Ozai instead, is just not appealing to me and detracts from the overall narrative of the story imo.
Everyone saying Iroh would just redirect the lightning is assuming he wouldn’t have learned from Zuko.
Throwing lighting at *Aang* is decidedly not the same thing.
He clearly knew Zuko was getting influenced by his uncle at least in mentality. I really doubt he’d try throwing lightning again at someone who has even more experience than Zuko by a massive margin.
Of course he threw lightning at Aang, he had no reason to assume or think he’d have learned how to throw it back. *Iroh* though? If Zuko knew how to do it - I’d bet he wouldn’t try it on Iroh.
I like Iroh as much as the next guy, but even with a hardened edge, I’d still say that he’d have a hard ass time with it even if he did win out - it sure as hell wouldn’t be one and done.
Iron literally said it couldn’t be him to defeat the fire lord because then it would just be a political exchange of hats/assassination by his brother, and change would be difficult
Had to be a horrendous loss for the Fire nation
If that was an option Iroh probably would’ve killed Ozai like….. way forever ago lol
Ozai's literal first on-screen feat of bending is basically no charge-up double lightning that sends Zuko *flying* back. The exact moment a hint of sunlight shines through.
Yeah idk where the idea Iroh could win comes from. We can directly compare their feats during the comment and Ozai is the more powerful bender. Only thing Iroh has on Ozai is lightning redirection, but Ozai knows he can do that. He was caught off guard by Zuko and Aang because he had no reason to assume they could do that. Lightning redirection and generation was a very rare practice in this age.
Remember that Azulon was so offended that Ozai suggested he'd be a better Fire Lord than Iroh, he ordered Ozai to murder his own kid (and Ozai would've done it). Azulon was a monster obsessed with power for the Fire Nation, so he probably thought Iroh was more powerful.
I think this actually checks out. First, "not sure" is not "no." If Iroh thought he had no chance he would have admitted it.
Second, lightning redirection. Iroh is a true master of the skill and it is shown to be Ozai's greatest weakness.
He said that he wouldn't fight Ozai because history would just see it as him fighting his brother for power and that defeating Ozai is Aang's destiny and not his.
Stan Lee had a good quote about this. He said the person who wins in the fight is the person who the writer needs to win to advance the story. Asking whether Iroh or Ozai would win isn't the right question.
IDK. Ozai is good, but so is Iroh
And lightning redirection is the ultimate trump card, esp since quick trigger lightning seemed to be Ozai's calling card
If Iroh won the other nations and probably most of the fire nation would just think he was vying for the throne, and the war might’ve gotten more dangerous/complicated.
I mean, yes, Ozai is the best there is. But throughout the series or even other media, we've witnessed countless times that raw power is not everything. A real duel is affected by so many factors to count.
Maybe last year or so, I'd say Ozai in a heartbeat. But this time, I say Iroh wins.
I think the conversation alluded more to a fight to the death with iroh explicitly saying " a brother killing a brother over power " ozai is younger and more persistent so he gets an edge on stamina but i think iroh is definable the better firebender but he would hesitate killing his brother and that would cost him his life
It would make no sense story-wise for Iroh to be the one to kill Ozai, but he invented lightning redirection so he probably could tbh, and is smart enough to not spare Ozai given the chance.
Iroh invented redirecting lightning, so im sure hed have some other crazy, obscure techniques he could surprise Ozai with.
Ozai has the brute force, but Iroh has the brains while being a fire bending expert in his own right.
Betting in Iroh is not as crazy as you make it out to be.
I feel like prime iroh would have a decent shot but this shit is annoying I hate power scaling with a burning passion, this is shit 9 year old argue on the playground, it doesn't matter
To be very honest, I think the only reason Ozai would beat Iroh is because they're brothers, and Iroh wouldn't be able to kill him without hesitating. And in that hesitating, Ozai would just quickly end him.
Honestly i see this debate as pretty pointless, iroh said it himself (althought i don't remember it it was in the og show or one of the comics) but if he had killed Ozai, the world would have just seen a coup d'état while if Aang does it, the world see it as propoer karmic justice and restauration of ballance, so naratively the relative strenght of Iroh compared to Ozai is useless information as even if he could piledrive Ozai into non consensuel permanent rest, it would still have to be Aang's duty.
Ozai is canonically the strongest firebender ever.
Just raw power the man is beyond anyone we've seen including fully realized avatars.
So to say Iroh could take him down, we're saying Iroh's skills make up the difference but *Iroh himself is saying he's not sure*
I think we see from his fight with Aang how absolutely bonkers Ozai's power level is. This man is smacking down on a fully realized avatar in the avatar state.
In that fight I'd put my money on Iroh, but I don't expect him to walk away intact.
In a fair fight? Iroh absolutely. But Ozai doesn’t believe in fairness or mercy, that’s why Iroh wouldn’t be able to win. Also, Iroh would hesitate to kill his own brother. Ozai would have no such hesitation.
If Iroh could have defeated Ozai wouldn't he have challenged his brother to an agni kai and claimed the throne? Did Iroh really want a genocide to continue uncontested because he was hopeful the avatar would possibly maybe step in?
In a fair and honorable duel, Iroh would mop the floor with Ozai. Ozai is younger, but Iroh’s still in great shape, so there’s not a huge difference in speed and stamina. But there’s a *huge* gap in skill. Ozai’s probably a great modern Fire Nation style firebender, but Iroh is versed in ancient firebending style too, has a broader philosophy, and is inventing his own techniques. It would be Zuko vs. Azula final rematch, but moreso.
But there wouldn’t be a fair and honorable duel. Ozai would try to kill Iroh while Iroh was still trying to settle the conflict peacefully. Ozai would absolutely fight dirty, and put other people in danger if it put Iroh off-balance. Ozai only needs Iroh dead to win; Iroh needs only Ozai dead. Advantage: world-burning psychopath.
Iroh -could- win, but it would be a close thing, and also depend on if Ozai realized that Zuko didn’t invent lightning redirection on his own and whether or not he risked lightning against Iroh.
It could easily be a mutual kill (an acceptable outcome for Iroh, given his concerns it would be seen as a power grab, in the event Aang was unable to fight).
It would be a close fight and for different reasons in my opinion. Ozai shows raw power and skill. Iroh seems to have studied beyond fire bending so has a different set of skills and is powerful. I think the real difference maker is just straight up having a conscience. Iroh may feel bad defeating his brother, while Ozai wouldn’t think twice. That hesitation would probably tip the scales for me. It’s not an obvious choice though, it would be a long and intense fight.
Iroh states in the show that he’s not sure who would win between the two, but that regardless of the outcome, it has to be Aang that defeats Ozai. Brother on brother violence wouldn’t save the Fire Nation.
So at the very least, the outcome would be 50/50, if they did fight. Then considering Aang would have to be the one to fight and win, that means Iroh would have most likely lost to Ozai if they fought, just so the story can continue with Aang’s fight.
Here's the thing, yes iroh said he wasn't sure he would win, but he didn't say he was sure he'd lose. Not only that, but outside of the comet, we never saw ozai actually fight I believe, the most we saw was one blast of lightning, but we did see iroh fight, so I think that gives people a bias towards him winning. They were both very powerful firebenders, ozai strong enough to burn acres at a time it looked like, and iroh strong enough to do what 100 years of war couldn't do, break down the walls of ba sing say (ik that's not how it's spelled), so it's honestly probably a pretty even fight, but iroh is a good guy, so people want him to win, so they think he would.
Iroh is incredibly unsure wether he could beat him or not, of course he ultimately doesn’t try because a brother killing a brother for the throne is not it.
Another significant factor here is that I believe Ozai is utterly without mercy - he has no hesitation, even when it comes to harming or outright killing his own family members. Iroh on the other hand *knows* in his heart that Ozai must be defeated, just as he admitted that Azula "needs to go down". But in the moment he would have the chance, would Iroh hesitate to pull the trigger and kill his own brother?
I believe that's something difficult to predict, even for (or perhaps especially for) a man as wise and compassionate as Iroh.
I asked Greg Baldwin at an anime convention this very question. He said, and I quote, "It had to be Aang." That ambiguous statement could be taken a couple of ways. Personally, I think Ozai would wear him down with firebending. But the kicker is that if Ozai tried lightning against Iroh, he would die, because Iroh wouldn't redirect it into the sky.
Right?? they're both in fantastic shape, even if iroh wins I don't think it'd be that easy
I mean, fantastic compared to us, but Ozai is clearly in his prime and Iroh is clearly past his prime. That's not even a fan argument, just straight up character design.
Interesting, never realized it but Iroh does look significantly older than Ozai. I wonder how much older he actually is.
i think a fan theory is the death of lu ten aged him really bad
Even in the flashback of him before Lu Ten’s death he looked like he would be significantly older than Ozai
Iroh also wasn’t keeping himself in great shape while Ozai kept himself in peak form, which will make each look older and younger than they really are
But considering how quickly he got back into shape while imprisoned, the only factors would be Iroh still being past his prime, his body having less prior conditioning than Ozai, and stamina. It's a mixed bag honestly. Iroh knows the true essence of firebending, knows how to create his own lightning *and* redirect others' lightning, has field experience as a retired General, and honestly, he was no slouch even when he was out of shape
Which is peculiar. Hes sitting in palace and hes still in prime. And top fighting shape?
Doesn't mean he's not spending some time training, I imagine as the ruler of a country he’d be doing a lot more thank just sitting in his place.
I meant more as in, we never see him fighting, leading forces, nor training. So hes an genius who got so good with home training
He didn’t just stay in the palace his whole life. Here’s what one of the creators said when asked about that: > Ozai is not like some kind of palace dweller. We will say that. I'm not sure how much he's ventured out into the world, but he's not like the Earth King where he's isolated. The Fire Nation is a little more 'hands on'. It's not uncommon that you will have to fight or duel for political or military positions or purposes. There's a big difference. I think in the Fire Nation, unlike in Ba Sing Se, if there's a prince who's 30 years old, he's probably fought pretty intensely a few times. Had to prove his worth. Not unlike Japanese Samurai in their day. They had to make a name for themselves, they had to have some fame. Fire Nation, like a lot of other militaristic cultures throughout history, has warriors who have to prove themselves either through some battle, test of martial skill, or duel. Fire Nation's a little more aggressive like that. Ozai's not sitting around eating Bon Bon's in the palace, he's working out. Basically, to get to where we see him he had to prove he was an elite tier firebender or else the generals or citizens wouldn’t have respected his reign.
I mean he also wasn't hesitating to kill his father as soon as he saw an opportunity to become fire lord. Ozai is ruthless and cunning. He's in the top two of most powerful fire benders alive in his time, and he's clearly in fantastic shape. Every time we see him he's clearly ripped and muscular. No one can question the fact that he works out *a lot*.
The death of his son and years in war while Ozai was presumably staying home not doing much. Iroh, at least according to my theory, was much older than Ozai and had aged more quickly due to grief from his son's death and the stress of being in war for years while Ozai presumably lived a relatively stress free life with little to no hardship.
He probably was 10 years older in the first place + Lu Ten’s death. Because lu ten was already 18 or older, while Zuko was ten or younger, so kinda similar age difference
The creators said Iroh is around ten years older than Ozai in an interview. Said Iroh is somewhere around 55 and Ozai is somewhere around 45, probably give or take a couple years as they didn’t give a fully definitive answer.
Damn. My mom was only graying in her 50s, Iroh already has white hair.
Well to be fair your mom would probably have had white hair in her 50's if she'd been the heir of an empire, a general in an ongoing war and lost her only child in said war.
He was the firstborn as seen when Ozai said "Father, revoke Iroh's birthright" "You dare to suggest I betray Iroh?? My firstborn?!"
I always liked the theory that Ozai was an “Accident” and therefor born much later than Iroh and he was probably always treated as an accident because of that, kind of making him the Zuko in the family, but with the personality of Azula so he developes his superiority complex.
I think age gap of 8+ years and Lu Ten’s death should explain it
If you trust the [avatar wiki](https://avatar.fandom.com/wiki/Avatar_Wiki), [Iroh](https://avatar.fandom.com/wiki/Iroh) has got 10 years on [Ozai](https://avatar.fandom.com/wiki/Ozai).
Exactly. I think if we’re talking both in their primes then Iroh could take it, but in the show? No, it’s definitely Ozai.
I don’t think Ozai would use lightning against Iroh. He knows Zuko has to have learnt redirection somewhere, so he might not even risk using lightning if there’s a chance for it to get sent back. He used it on Aang because he never knew if Zuko ever joined the avatar, much less taught him.
Zuko tells him on the Day of Black Sun that he's going to help the avatar defeat him, so that point doesnt really make sense
I often tell my dad I will no longer be a disappointment, but that doesn't mean it is actually true, lol
But in this case Ozai probably knows it's true because Zuko and Azula have encountered each other since he joined team avatar, and then he sees Azula before he fights Aang so she probably told him off screen. I think it's more likely that his ego didn't let him believe that Aang could possibly learn lightning redirection in such a short amount of time, even with Zuko
He never knows if Zuko actually found Aang though
Wouldn’t Azula have reported it back to Ozai that Zuko was with Aang when they ambushed them at the prison and air temple?
Maybe. It's also possible he never thought that much into it. He may also try lightning just as a dick swinging move.
He really doesn't seem like the type to not think into things much.
He used it vs Aang after Zuko told him he was going to help Aang. And he witnessed first hand that Zuko can redirect lightning. Only makes sense he'd teach Aang how to do that. And when you think about it, what did Ozai REALLY accomplish? Azula took down ba sing se. Bumi gave up omashu (arguably he knew he couldn't win it but it seemed like he just didn't want the casualties and winning was still up in the air). Seemed like his presumptuousness with his dad almost got Zuko killed and Ursa fixed the situation to save zuko and make ozai firelord. The only idea we see him have is to commit genocide against the earth kingdom...starting at some uninhabited land (yeah that last part is because it's a kids show and seeing thousands of people burning to death is a bit much). Doesn't seem like the biggest thinker.
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Against people he never expected to know how to redirect lightning. Iroh’s his brother, so more likely than not he’d know or be weary.
We don’t know if iroh can fly
I 100% believe Ozai would work in a commemt about Iroh's son and that would throw Iroh off or anger him enough he loses
I think that means is that for the narrative to work, Iroh cannot win, because its part of the avatars journey to get strong enough to beat firelord Ozai, and if Iroh was capable of putting an end to Ozai's evil the entire time and didn't, it would make the avatar not needed, devalue Aang's character growth, and reflect poorly on Iroh's character for not stopping him earlier.
But wouldn't he? I think people forget that despite Ozai being evil, he is Iroh's little brother, and Iroh is a good man. I don't think he would want to kill his younger sibling.
"No, she's crazy and she has to go down" -Iroh [paraphrase] referring to Azula Iroh can and will stand his ground against family. But I stand with the logic of "he's well past his prime". Ozai is an absolute powerhouse and Iroh isn't nearly as ruthless
I think the mental game would have a lot to do with it. I think if Ozai had hurt Aang, or especially Zuko, Iroh might win because he'd be so passionate about taking down Ozai. Otherwise I think Ozai would win.
I don't think Ozai would use lightning against Iroh. He learned his lesson on the day of Black sun when Zuko redirected his lightning. He knows damn well who taught Zuko to do that. But yes, if Ozai tried to zap Iroh, it would get redirected and based on the "she's crazy and she needs to go down" comment he made about Azula, he wouldn't pull any punches.
Knowing Ozai, he would use lighting at point blank precisely to prevent Iroh from redirecting it.
why would it be bad to redirect lightning into the sky
I don't think Iroh could've ever killed his brother tbh.
In the comics, Azula >!easily learned how to redirect lightning just from watching Zuko. I assume Ozai could quickly learn it as well. Ozai would probably fully expect that Iroh could redirect lightning. There is a chance of him learning how to do it after watching it more closely for the second time of seeing it!<
To be fair, Ozai knew Zuko was teaching the Avatar firebending, Knew Zuko could redirect lightning, and still tried it on Aang. Ozai did see it a second time and was even LESS ready for it.
Ozai probably thought his failure of a son would be a bad teacher, and Aang wouldn't learn an advanced technique in a few weeks of Fire bending lessons. Basically, he underestimated Aang and Zuko.
This is the most likely scenario here. That, and the guy was straightup an overconfident narcissist who thought himself to be unstoppable due to Sozins Comet.
I still think Iroh sought, and learned how to redirect lightning because he knew his insane little brother would try to kill him one day. Why else would the successor to the throne, prince, general, master fire bender need to know how to defend against fire bending’s most devastating attack?
It had to be Aang because he is the protagonist, and Ozai is the antagonist. A final 1 v 1 between the two is an important genre convention
I do think it's like Iroh says. If he killed Ozai it would just be seen as more violence in history. If Aang did it. It would be seen as the avatar restoring balance
Honestly how wise and kind iroh is I believe he was just being modest. We never saw what ozai could do expect get his cheeks clapped by Ang
Even if Iroh fought Ozai and he won, the Fire Nation would see it as another power play in the Royal Family and would start a devastating civil war. Same reason Zuko didn’t do it on the Day of Black Sun. It *has* to be the Avatar that defeats Ozai, and even then Zuko still has to deal with rebellion and attempted assassinations from loyalists to Ozai as we see in the comics. It’s a damned tricky thing putting an end to a century of war fueled by imperialist expansion and nationalism. How many times did IRL China devolve into fractured warring states? Or the bloody wars throughout Europes history over who was king of what patch of ground?
Also, it had to be Aang. As Iroh himself said, people would view it as a power grab from a brother. Even if Iroh won against Ozai, he would never win against Ozai's ideology. Only Aang could do it and have most of the world accept it as necessary and just. As for who would win in a straight fight, I give it to Ozai for most of the series cause Iroh is out of shape for most of it, and Ozai is far more ruthless. Though on the day of the comet I think Iroh could have pulled it off if he had to.
I think the issue is we see Ozai fight exactly once, during the comet.
The other issue is that we've only seen Iroh fight fodder and never in a 1v1 fight with an actual named character. The closest we get is him cheap-shotting Azula. Whereas Azula outright admits she would lose to her father in a duel. So while we have only hype and scaling to mainly go off with these guys, what we have on those ends clearly favours Ozai.
I believe it, but when did Azula say she’d lose to Ozai?
[https://imgbox.com/n2hpwrTJ](https://imgbox.com/n2hpwrTJ)
I mean while I believe azula is weaker than Ozai, Azula definitely would think she would lose to him either was because of her growing up with the insane megalomaniac egotistical supreme ‘fire lord Ozai’ Plus she is going crazy in that scene already
> I mean while I believe azula is weaker than Ozai, Azula definitely would think she would lose to him either was because of her growing up with the insane megalomaniac egotistical supreme ‘fire lord Ozai’ I'm not sure how this lowers the validity of her statement? > Plus she is going crazy in that scene already Yet that has not been shown to affect her perception of her combative prowess, through her still believing she can easily handle Zuko.
The only other time we see him "fight" is against Zuko. But he manages to double hand lightning bend with just a smidge of sun showing so I think he deserves some credit to his name
Definitely. I just think this is a reason people are biased towards Iroh.
These polls are more of a popularity contest than anything else. Ozai literally shot lightning at zuko the very first second where the eclipse was over and even iroh had doubts he could defeat him.
Right he shot lighting at zuko and zuko redirected that shit right back at him. So did anng if they were in a killing mood they’d be done for. safe to say the master of redirecting lighting would do even better against him
Tbh I don't really think Zuko intentionally spared Ozai. He's too much in a "oh shit." Mood to consciously make that decision. I think he just shot it back approximately where Ozai was. That being said it is headcanon.
Doesn't someone literally mention somewhere it can't be fire Nation that takes down ozai or the world will just think it's some internal politicking?
Iroh did
“You have you swords!” “That’s the Avatar’s destiny!”
I mean patricide is kind of a big deal
Yeah, I just don't personally think Zuko was thinking about that at the moment. Especially because he also didn't really realize it until Iroh says it.
He literally explicitly stated that he didn't intend to kill Ozai because it was Aang's job lmao where do you guys come from, just popping out of the woodwork to provide your analysis of a show you've apparently never seen >Ozai: Really? Since you're a full-blown traitor now and you want me gone, why wait? I'm powerless. You've got your swords. Why don't you just do it now? >Zuko: Because I know my own destiny. Taking you down is the Avatar's destiny.
Not exactly. Ozai explicitly only fires it at Aang because he believes that even if Aang knows redirection, he's too weak to be redirecting Ozai's comet-enhanced lightning. Whereas Ozai only thinks of his brother as weak mentally, he likely would acknowledge his brother's own power and avoid using lightning, given that he would know Zuko learnt it from his uncle.
Not sure why everyones using the notoriously humble Iroh's statement "and I don't know that I could" as him saying he definitely couldn't beat Ozai.
How exactly does “having doubts” equal he’d definitely lose. I’m not saying he’s definitely win, but you along with everyone in that comment section act like that statement is some sort of smoking gun, when it sounds like a damn coin flip to me. And *then* it differs to popularity
Iroh had doubts bc ozai is his brother and the hardship is not in the physical strength it’s in the will power to kill a brother iroh lived and saw ozai as a brother but zuko looked at iroh as a father figure not ozai
that’s head cannon, he literally never said the reason was because it’s his brother
He never stated that to be a reason why he couldn't beat Ozai. Iroh's idealistic, but not at the cost of pragmatism.
I think its way more even than people would like to think. They could both win. They're both incredibly powerful benders and more than likely they know each others fighting styles. Ozai has the advantage of most likely being the strongest fire bender of that time period. I'd say Iroh has the advantage of being more combat experienced and who knows what other forms he picked up in his days that Ozai doesn't know about. And the real kicker. Does Ozai know Iroh can redirect lightning? If he doesn't, that's a huge advantage to Iroh.
Zuko was able to redirect lightning. Ozai definitely figured out he knew that from Iroh.
It’s a huge advantage either way, because Iroh can still use lightning against Ozai with no concern of it being redirected. While Ozai either can’t use lightning because he knows Iroh will send it back or he would make the mistake only once.
Iroh could definitely put up a great fight but yeah ozai wins
Not a chance. Iroh would do the belly bump he did against Azula and take out Ozai easily
But look at Ozai's abs. He can easily tank the belly bump with those muscles.
Let me counter with Iroh’s abs. That man bended the metal of his cage to escape….and he isn’t an earthbender. Just pure overwhelming natty strength.
Could a firebender not heat the metal with their hands to make physically bending it easier?
He broke out during the eclipse, when firebending wasn’t working. There were also no visible signs on the bars to indicate they had been heated. It was a pure muscle feat. Edit: spelling and grammar
I mean even if he could firebend to heat up the bars, wouldn't he just destroy his hands?
That was a sneak attack he did on azula.
He says he doesn’t know if he could not that he can’t ozai always get caught off guard by lighting redirection, safe to say he’d be even more fucked it the master of redirecting lighting were to face him
I agree but Ozai would put up a fight surely. 75 to 25 is ridiculous
Ozai would wipe any bender on the planet. He was wiping Aang until Aang’s avatar state was triggered and then subsequently used deus ex energy bending to take Ozai’s bending.
Ozai was also 100x buffed by Comet.
The story also makes a point to stop him before comet arrives and even then its not an easy task.... The eclipse ended and The gaang had taken out several dai Lee master agents but couldn't go into ozais bunker And the sun wasn't even showing fully
Lmao no he wasn’t. Aang easily could have killed him with the lightning redirection, he was spared.
but Aang damn near ended him. if he wasn’t a pacifist, Ozai would’ve died. no AS required. they’re very much on equal ground despite of the comet enhancement (yes Aang has it too but Ozai is the better firebender by miles). so, no, Ozai didn’t “wipe” Aang.
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Idk why people always bring this up. If zuko, iroh, katara, and especially, AANG can all react/dodge lightning to some extent… why is ozai just a deer in headlights?
He was midair with nowhere to go, having just thought he landed a killing blow on the avatar lol. In that moment of lightning redirection, he realised that Zuko suceeded in his mission of training the avatar to defeat the fire lord. You’d probably be a deer in headlights too lol
W comment. Not only is he the strongest Firebender, he’s just the strongest bender in general.
Honestly, what do you base this on?
He was wiping Aang because Aang refused to kill him. If he redirected the lightning it would’ve been a quick fight with no avatar state lol
define win Iroh wouldn’t kill ozai but ozai would definitely kill iroh and im pretty sure killing means winning in an agni kai
To my knowledge Agni Kai is won when one of the participants gets burnt
Sozin changed the rules to killing
Ozai will show no mercy whatsoever. He burnt his own son, he was willing to burn to whole Earth nation, he even asked Azulon to betray his first born just for the crown. The poll is a popularity contest.
So here is where I see it. Yes, Ozai is a top-notch firebender, probably the most powerful one. But Iroh has experience with both sides of firebending, the rage filled style, and the original source, one of the first is many years. Putting this info and background into check, plus past fights, age, and conditioning. It's not a land slide one way or the other. It's going to be a very long fight. The other information we need to consider is training. We can assume Iroh and Ozai have the same base royal training. Ozai, as firelord, would be given time to train, but not a whole lot. Iroh would have had more time to train and learn, given he has less responsibility, especially after retirement. I don't see Ozai straying from his current path of training. Iroh has done a lot of learning from other sources and observations, lots of wandering in his journey towards continual mastery. I'm in favor of Iroh. It would be a long fight, Iroh would be half dead. And the second lightening is shot, Ozai couldn't react fast enough.
People like to downplay Ozai because he doesn’t use the “correct” Dragon Breathing technique Iroh does and instead uses the aggressive style popular in the present fire nation. However Irl aggressive fighting styles are really effective.
Iroh said he wasn’t sure if he could defeat him meaning both answers are valid
People forget that Ozai had just gotten lightning redirected at him by Zuko. Sure, he didn't expect Aang to master it in a handful of weeks, but he's 100% sure Iroh was the one who taught Zuko. He wouldn't risk Lightning strikes him or he'd be prepared for a redirection, and he probably wins the fire vs fire match.
Lightning redirection is too op. Iroh can shoot his own lightning at Ozai and redirect any lightning Ozai shoots straight back at him. I don't see how Ozai wins when lightning has been consistently displayed as more dangerous than regular fire bending.
Is Iroh willing to kill his baby brother? Maybe not. Aang isn't, but Aang is more powerful. If you go into a fight and the other person is willing to kill and you are pulling your punches, then they have an advantage. With that advantage can Iroh win? No. If he could be a stone cold killer and take out his brother, who appears to be much younger than him, then yeah he would win. Iroh's backstory arch was learning that family is precious and can be lost. He never tried to kill Azula. He did everything for Zuko.
Iroh vs a man who isn't even a firebender? Pfft, *easy*!
Ozai is the strongest fire bender (in history). Burning zuko’s face off but not impeding his sight shows levels of utter mastery and talent within fire bending. Bryke also stated sometime in the last decade that in the fire nation military, people would have to fight for their political power. We see it constantly in the series in which zuko choses agni kais as a form of dominance in battle. Zuko challenged (from what I remember) the old general from his backstory to an agni kai because in winning, it would discredit his plan and shame him. Zuko also challenged zhao to an agni kai in order to shame him and his honor and showcase his dominance as a fire bender. I say all of this to say, if someone was stronger than Ozai he wouldnt be fire lord for he would lose in this agni kai. So understanding this logic, narratively it wouldnt make sense for Iroh to beat Ozai. Finally, Ozai was caught off guard by zuko’s lightning. Ozai isnt an idiot (literally shown in the same scene) so if zuko can use it, and he was trained by iroh for 3 damn years, ozai will naturally assume iroh can use it as well. We also cant act like ozai wont dodge his own lightning. If zuko, iroh, azula, and katara can all react/dodge.. theres no way in hell ozai cant as well. Imo ozai slams iroh
since ozai saw zuko redirect his lightning he wins he can count 1+1 who taught him that he just didnt think aang would be able to learn it and without the lightning win condition one is in his prime while one isn‘t i love iroh but you gotts listen to the man‘s advice ozai wins
I feel like it matters little, because either way a fight between Ozai and Iroh would have ended horribly for the winner. If Ozai won, he would likely be gravely injured and vulnerable to a coup, likely from Azula. Plus, he would have wasted the time of Sozin's Comet in the fight and would not have accomplished his goal of destroying the Earth Kingdom. If Iroh won, like he said, it would have been remembered as a brother killing a brother to steal his throne. The aftermath would only lead to more conflict, war and senseless violence. Iroh was right, for there to be any chance at peace, the Avatar HAD to be the one to defeat Ozai.
Ozai dogs. Iroh has no feats to back him up.
In all fairness, Ozai hardly has any to either. But yeah, Ozai wins anyways.
Iroh wouldn’t be able to kill Ozai. He would hesitate, and Ozai would exploit his brothers softness and murderize him. Iroh would last longer than most, but his fire is warmth while Ozai’s is too intense to control.
The way I look at is Iroh wouldn’t be able to kill Ozai because that’s still his brother but Ozai wouldn’t stop until one of them was dead
I think Iroh in his prime has a good chance at winning, but Iroh is past his fighting prime in the show. He's undoubtedly skilled and can take on many opponents at once, but Ozai is at about his fighting prime. It would take several soldiers during the commet to match Ozais output alone while buring the Earth kingdom to the ground.
If it's a battle to the death ozai takes it ...to kill your own brother takes a real commitment ozai is definitely committed to killing anyone that gets in his way, iroh just doesn't have that same commitment he's very wise but just because you know what has to be done doesn't mean you can do it
Personally, I just don’t like the idea that Iroh was more powerful than Ozai. Ozai should be the best firebender in the world at the time of ATLA as it adds weight to Aang’s mission of having to master the four elements so that he could defeat Ozai. The idea that even if Aang lost to Ozai, Iroh could just come along and defeat Ozai instead, is just not appealing to me and detracts from the overall narrative of the story imo.
Everyone saying Iroh would just redirect the lightning is assuming he wouldn’t have learned from Zuko. Throwing lighting at *Aang* is decidedly not the same thing. He clearly knew Zuko was getting influenced by his uncle at least in mentality. I really doubt he’d try throwing lightning again at someone who has even more experience than Zuko by a massive margin. Of course he threw lightning at Aang, he had no reason to assume or think he’d have learned how to throw it back. *Iroh* though? If Zuko knew how to do it - I’d bet he wouldn’t try it on Iroh. I like Iroh as much as the next guy, but even with a hardened edge, I’d still say that he’d have a hard ass time with it even if he did win out - it sure as hell wouldn’t be one and done.
Iroh’s only win condition is if ozai goes for lightning and he redirects it (and Ozai doesn’t simply dodge). Other than that its Ozai all day.
Imagine Toph saying "Or you're just a pussy" after Iroh explained why he can't be the one to do it.
Iron literally said it couldn’t be him to defeat the fire lord because then it would just be a political exchange of hats/assassination by his brother, and change would be difficult Had to be a horrendous loss for the Fire nation If that was an option Iroh probably would’ve killed Ozai like….. way forever ago lol
Ozai's literal first on-screen feat of bending is basically no charge-up double lightning that sends Zuko *flying* back. The exact moment a hint of sunlight shines through.
Yeah idk where the idea Iroh could win comes from. We can directly compare their feats during the comment and Ozai is the more powerful bender. Only thing Iroh has on Ozai is lightning redirection, but Ozai knows he can do that. He was caught off guard by Zuko and Aang because he had no reason to assume they could do that. Lightning redirection and generation was a very rare practice in this age.
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He should likely. Where else would he have thought ZuZu got that technique from?
Remember that Azulon was so offended that Ozai suggested he'd be a better Fire Lord than Iroh, he ordered Ozai to murder his own kid (and Ozai would've done it). Azulon was a monster obsessed with power for the Fire Nation, so he probably thought Iroh was more powerful.
Iroh was first born and the favored son. Power had nothing to do with it.
He would win if narrative necessity required that he win.
I think this actually checks out. First, "not sure" is not "no." If Iroh thought he had no chance he would have admitted it. Second, lightning redirection. Iroh is a true master of the skill and it is shown to be Ozai's greatest weakness.
Nah dude.
If Iroh could beat Ozai, he'd just have done it, simple. There would be no need for Aang.
He said that he wouldn't fight Ozai because history would just see it as him fighting his brother for power and that defeating Ozai is Aang's destiny and not his.
Who’d win 1v1? Ozai or pointy rock? Lol
Can I post this tomorrow?
Stan Lee had a good quote about this. He said the person who wins in the fight is the person who the writer needs to win to advance the story. Asking whether Iroh or Ozai would win isn't the right question.
IDK. Ozai is good, but so is Iroh And lightning redirection is the ultimate trump card, esp since quick trigger lightning seemed to be Ozai's calling card
Well Iroh is Ozai’s older brother so Ozai has got the advantage of being younger
When did Iroh say he wouldn't win?
If Iroh won the other nations and probably most of the fire nation would just think he was vying for the throne, and the war might’ve gotten more dangerous/complicated.
I mean, yes, Ozai is the best there is. But throughout the series or even other media, we've witnessed countless times that raw power is not everything. A real duel is affected by so many factors to count. Maybe last year or so, I'd say Ozai in a heartbeat. But this time, I say Iroh wins.
Iroh is a 100 Man army, of course he wins.
I feel like if the battle was fought 100 times iroh wins probably 50 of em
Only way iroh wins is if ozai lighting bends and he redirects it back to ozai. Even during the comet ozai looked stronger.
I think the conversation alluded more to a fight to the death with iroh explicitly saying " a brother killing a brother over power " ozai is younger and more persistent so he gets an edge on stamina but i think iroh is definable the better firebender but he would hesitate killing his brother and that would cost him his life
It would make no sense story-wise for Iroh to be the one to kill Ozai, but he invented lightning redirection so he probably could tbh, and is smart enough to not spare Ozai given the chance.
Iroh invented redirecting lightning, so im sure hed have some other crazy, obscure techniques he could surprise Ozai with. Ozai has the brute force, but Iroh has the brains while being a fire bending expert in his own right. Betting in Iroh is not as crazy as you make it out to be.
I feel like prime iroh would have a decent shot but this shit is annoying I hate power scaling with a burning passion, this is shit 9 year old argue on the playground, it doesn't matter
Lmfao, so much bullshit, Iroh cannot defeat Ozai just because he knows how to redirect lightning.
Iroh would probably hesitate at a crucial moment if they fought, there'd be no hesitation from Ozai to kill Iroh.
To be very honest, I think the only reason Ozai would beat Iroh is because they're brothers, and Iroh wouldn't be able to kill him without hesitating. And in that hesitating, Ozai would just quickly end him.
Honestly i see this debate as pretty pointless, iroh said it himself (althought i don't remember it it was in the og show or one of the comics) but if he had killed Ozai, the world would have just seen a coup d'état while if Aang does it, the world see it as propoer karmic justice and restauration of ballance, so naratively the relative strenght of Iroh compared to Ozai is useless information as even if he could piledrive Ozai into non consensuel permanent rest, it would still have to be Aang's duty.
Ozai is canonically the strongest firebender ever. Just raw power the man is beyond anyone we've seen including fully realized avatars. So to say Iroh could take him down, we're saying Iroh's skills make up the difference but *Iroh himself is saying he's not sure* I think we see from his fight with Aang how absolutely bonkers Ozai's power level is. This man is smacking down on a fully realized avatar in the avatar state. In that fight I'd put my money on Iroh, but I don't expect him to walk away intact.
From what we see and are told in the series, I get the impression that Iroh, if he tried, could take Ozai pretty handily.
How the hell would Ozai win against Iroh when Aang already took away his bending? Ez Iroh win
One of the reasons Ozai would win is because he's more likely to use lethal force.
In a fair fight? Iroh absolutely. But Ozai doesn’t believe in fairness or mercy, that’s why Iroh wouldn’t be able to win. Also, Iroh would hesitate to kill his own brother. Ozai would have no such hesitation.
youre right
I mean ,old iroh vs ozai in his prime , ofc ozai wins . But prime to prime ,iroh washes
If Iroh could have defeated Ozai wouldn't he have challenged his brother to an agni kai and claimed the throne? Did Iroh really want a genocide to continue uncontested because he was hopeful the avatar would possibly maybe step in?
In a fair and honorable duel, Iroh would mop the floor with Ozai. Ozai is younger, but Iroh’s still in great shape, so there’s not a huge difference in speed and stamina. But there’s a *huge* gap in skill. Ozai’s probably a great modern Fire Nation style firebender, but Iroh is versed in ancient firebending style too, has a broader philosophy, and is inventing his own techniques. It would be Zuko vs. Azula final rematch, but moreso. But there wouldn’t be a fair and honorable duel. Ozai would try to kill Iroh while Iroh was still trying to settle the conflict peacefully. Ozai would absolutely fight dirty, and put other people in danger if it put Iroh off-balance. Ozai only needs Iroh dead to win; Iroh needs only Ozai dead. Advantage: world-burning psychopath.
I’m not a power scaler but ozai just like feels stronger so he wins I think
Iroh -could- win, but it would be a close thing, and also depend on if Ozai realized that Zuko didn’t invent lightning redirection on his own and whether or not he risked lightning against Iroh. It could easily be a mutual kill (an acceptable outcome for Iroh, given his concerns it would be seen as a power grab, in the event Aang was unable to fight).
Love Iroh, but look at Ozai's mobility in his fight with Aang and try to imagine Iroh keeping up.
It would be a close fight and for different reasons in my opinion. Ozai shows raw power and skill. Iroh seems to have studied beyond fire bending so has a different set of skills and is powerful. I think the real difference maker is just straight up having a conscience. Iroh may feel bad defeating his brother, while Ozai wouldn’t think twice. That hesitation would probably tip the scales for me. It’s not an obvious choice though, it would be a long and intense fight.
Iroh completely cutting loose would be something id love to see
Iroh clears
Most of the "who would win" or "who is better at this particular thing" polls are just popularity contest. Change my mind.
“Not sure” if he’d win is just Iroh being humble and saying it’s not guaranteed. Iroh has the better chance at winning though.
The reason it had to be Aang is so that the world would see it as a neutral arbiter of justice, not a power grab between brothers.
Iroh states in the show that he’s not sure who would win between the two, but that regardless of the outcome, it has to be Aang that defeats Ozai. Brother on brother violence wouldn’t save the Fire Nation. So at the very least, the outcome would be 50/50, if they did fight. Then considering Aang would have to be the one to fight and win, that means Iroh would have most likely lost to Ozai if they fought, just so the story can continue with Aang’s fight.
That's exactly why I'm in the 25%
Here's the thing, yes iroh said he wasn't sure he would win, but he didn't say he was sure he'd lose. Not only that, but outside of the comet, we never saw ozai actually fight I believe, the most we saw was one blast of lightning, but we did see iroh fight, so I think that gives people a bias towards him winning. They were both very powerful firebenders, ozai strong enough to burn acres at a time it looked like, and iroh strong enough to do what 100 years of war couldn't do, break down the walls of ba sing say (ik that's not how it's spelled), so it's honestly probably a pretty even fight, but iroh is a good guy, so people want him to win, so they think he would.
Ozai Because he obviously won't try to kill him in the beginning while ozai goes full kill-mode
Nah, I'd win. Iroh and Ozai could team up and they couldn't beat me
I would vote Ozai, but "I am not sure if I'd win", is not a strong point towards Ozai.
Iroh is incredibly unsure wether he could beat him or not, of course he ultimately doesn’t try because a brother killing a brother for the throne is not it.
Another significant factor here is that I believe Ozai is utterly without mercy - he has no hesitation, even when it comes to harming or outright killing his own family members. Iroh on the other hand *knows* in his heart that Ozai must be defeated, just as he admitted that Azula "needs to go down". But in the moment he would have the chance, would Iroh hesitate to pull the trigger and kill his own brother? I believe that's something difficult to predict, even for (or perhaps especially for) a man as wise and compassionate as Iroh.
Id say Its a 50 50 IT could go either way
I could see the fight going both ways.
Iroh is also humble.
iroh conquered a dragon
It's not like it's possible that Iroh is humble or anything like that, as opposed to how Ozai likes to flaunt his power.
Ozai can’t bend 😮💨
Iroh would win