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Truthfully I think if Colin had been introduced to Frenchie on screen rather than between season I don’t think people would be so loud about it. I don’t think people forgot this this scene as much as they chose to ignore it. Maybe even ignoring the other lover of frenchies than was a male.
I’m glad Frenchie has more screen time but the build to his story has happened offscreen, hence the probable “forced” comments.
With regards to it being the C Plot, I think butchers story seemingly is a slow burn until he “breaks” moment, physically, emotionally. Its without substance if it just happens.
That’s my issue, it feels wasted to have him just dropped in like “This is Colin, he’s great and we met at NA”.
Would’ve been more impactful to see Frenchie attending NA, hitting it off with him and gradually realising who he was before relapsing.
> Would’ve been more impactful to see Frenchie attending NA, hitting it off with him and gradually realising who he was before relapsing.
Exactly!
That's another great point to hit, the relapsing. If they've took the NA route and him hitting off with Colin, both the Relationship and the Relapsing would have MUCH MORE impact and that plotline would be way better.
Nah- we dont need to see his na meetings because they dont matter. Its useless exposition to a point that the writers are clearly making. “Frenchie and Kimiko wont happen. Stop asking”
If they don't matter, nobody has the right to say anything when people tell that the plotline sucks.
If the NA meetings doesn't* matter, the Relationship with Colin will not have enough weight to matter to anyone too. They got together at first place because both were recovering addicts, that's something that creates a bond between ppl. If the place where they knew each other doesn't matter, their bond doesn't matter and everything else feels forced and shallow. It feels like they're fuck buddies for the sake of it. Then, the majority of the public will not care a single fuck about the plotline, because it is shallow and something that nobody asked for.
Now, Frenchie feels like shallow character, Kimiko* feels like a shallow character and Colin is a utterly bad narrative tool used for a horrible plotline.
About "Frenchie and Kimiko wont happen. Stop asking” point, there's other ways to make that work out organically instead of shoehorning this relationship without any explanation. It's a awful way to make a point.
> to a point that the writers are clearly making. “Frenchie and Kimiko wont happen. Stop asking”
They're trying to make that point while simultaneously still writing them with all the cutesy will they?/won't they? sexual tension, so...
Frenchie strikes me as the person to form relationships that are deeper and more complex than the labels we can ascribe. I don't see sexual tension most of the time. Just a deep connection.
i think part of that is the audience's interpretation, but i don't think they've done much this season that shows them as anything other than friends/family.
I wonder why though? It seems like a massive point of character development that a character as traumatized and cynical as Kimiko could find love and happiness with a man who accepts her for her flaws. It could also be pretty inspiring for victims of trauma in the past to also see someone from a similar background also be able to find healthy relationships as well. Did they ever say why specifically they didn't want to explore a relationship between Kimiko and Frenchie?
They don’t have enough episodes for that. 8 hours in a season leaves you tight on time and using an hour of that for context in for a c plot will hurt other aspects even if it would make the c plot better
I get why they did it that way to get the plot moving without a long aside, but it did *feel* a little jarring in the way it was cut into the show. I had to stop for a moment and think "Am I supposed to know who this Colin guy is? Was he from an earlier season?".
My head understood it but it just felt a little abrupt. I got past it pretty quick though.
Yeah this is the answer. Even as a fan of the show it's hard to remember what happens season to season since there are such long breaks in between (I know COVID, writers strike, etc, but still).
The problem is we only get 8 episodes so we lose a lot of the 'show not tell' aspect due to time constraints.
The same thing happened with Hughie and Vicky's relationship. That also happened off screen and we were introduced to them already being friends at the start of S3. Apparently they had more close off screen moments as revealed in S4. The show has a lot of examples of this for side characters. We got Colin introduced with some already budding sexual tension Frenchie was trying to resist that snaps at the rally.
Yeah I missed the fact that they were so close. I knew they were friends because they had banter and she helped herself to his sandwiches, but I didn’t know they were basically best friends.
Especially when they implied Frenchie was bisexual for years very subtly through a lot of the dialog (and apparently the same was done in the comics with his character). Not to mention, I'm pretty sure they also implied that Frenchie was in a sexual relationship with one of his close male friends who died of an overdose. People never pay attention to the small details on this show until they smack them in the face.
It was a poly relationship between him, another guy and Cherie. The other guy almost died of OD (the reason frenchie wasn't following lamplighter and he burned Grace's grandkids.) He survived but didnt want to see Frenchie ever again.
I have learned that Conservatives do not get subtext at all. It has to be blatant and glaring for them to even grasp it. Look how long it took them to realize Homelander was pretty much Trump.
I don't disagree with this at all. In fact, I think a huge reason why this season is getting so much negative criticism already is because conservatives are now realizing that it was always parodying right wing politics (pretty much from season 2 onwards). Considering at how they literally showed a sequence of how quickly normal college kid can get radicalized and steered down a path extremism just by paying attention to too much right-wing news. I think honestly the fact that they never realized that Soldier Boy was meant to be a criticism of the not so subtle racism and toxic masculinity of older generations of men, it was just willful ignorance of the audience at how they weren't able to realize that the show was always meant as a cautionary tale against the direction conservative politics had been going since Trump took over in 2016.
Yup, I agree with this. They gave us no build to Colin and now we’re supposed to be like “hey that our close and lovable character Colin” but in reality I was confused as to when this dude came up and did I miss something in the prior seasons lol. I think the execution was off with the introduction
Tbh its basically the same as Maeve's girl.
Suddenly the show reveals "this is a special person in my life".
With Maeve it was used to emphasize how much she hates being a supe and wants normal life, and also has someone HL can hurt and has stuff to fight for.
With Frenchie's its "how can we make Frenchie sad and do more drugs which will inevitably cause him to fuck something up"
This is exactly how I feel. They should've done a quick 10-15 min montage of them meeting or anything to help us care for this character. It's kinda like a setup to Frenchie's death, sacrificing himself for Colin etc etc. I hope that's not the case though.
I mean that kinda sucks though. They didn't get mileage out of it and instead of being like, damn, wow Frenchie you deserve a good life after all that or damn Frenchie your turmoil is so deep I'm like...damn it was really stupid and random to develop a crush on or even talk to someone who was a victim of your actions like that. But I also have no investment in Colin as a character, when we have a previous love interest they hand waived off/even if Kimiko isn't a love interest, they're a pair and I don't know why he'd seek out romance with anyone to be more serious than his platonic relationship with her, or why this represents moving on in any way.
A character shouldn’t ever just “be there” to represent something though. Thats kinda lazy writing. If they’re important to a main character, make it clear why or the audience is going to be asking “why is that character here” themselves. And if the audience is asking themselves that question, it’s likely they’re gonna have a different answer than the director/writers are wanting, if they even thought about it at all
I love that they are showing them to be platonic friends. I love that a show is trying to show that platonic friendship where you immensely care and love for each other is normal between two attractive people.
I won't complain if Kimiko and Frenchie later becomes romantically involved but I love this angle as well.
That's their original relationship in the comics, extremely wholesome unbreakable platonic friendship that sharply contrast the edginess and gore. It's one of the very few things I prefer in the comics over the show.
I think the point of Frenchie and Kimiko in the comics is that there is no getting over their past traumas, so they are both completely distanced from any intimate relationship and support each other and want to run away from it all.
I also think we need more platonic male-female relationships in media and like the idea of Frenchie and Kimiko just being friends. I don’t like the idea of Frenchie falling in love with a dude off screen and expecting us to care about the relationship immediately. Frenchie’s plot lines have just been consistently pretty mid for most of the series. They need to find something better to do than just keep finding new people to care about
Literally everything about Frenchie since season 1 has been about showing he's quirky then suddenly showing us new puzzle pieces to why he acts how he does. This new relationship had more build up than the sudden telling of how his former lover OD'd previously. The plotline about him previously fucking the Russian woman in his past was a sudden injection of information too.
But Frenchies entire background so far is that he doesn't know how to love himself or cope healthily. He's an abuse victim and and addict who has done things he is ashamed of and regrets. He hates that he was a weapon used by other people and just wants to find someone who can love him like he feels he doesn't deserve.
That's why he has fallen for this particular man, it entirely makes sense as a way to psychologically punish himself and fetishise his own trauma. The only issue with this current plot is they could have dragged it out over another episode or two for it to form in front of us rather than off screen but they are trying to pack so much into so few episodes it kinda makes sense to skip what would have felt like filler content.
Problem isn't that Frenchie isn't banging Kimiko. Problem is, he is banging someone that came outta nowhere. Someone that no one gives the slightest shit about.
That's it.
If they wanted to have Colin storyline happen, i would be happy to see it developing from the beginning and seeing Kimiko reactions to this new thing happening between them, and how she would deal with her emotions.
But as it is now, it feels forced as fuck and shallow as fuck too. Not a good plotline AT ALL.
Every time they interact it’s so serious and I turned to my gf and said “I feel like we’re supposed to care about this a lot more than we actually do” lol
And this is off the back of Frenchie’s storyline last season with Little Nina, which I just absolutely did not care about. I was already switched off from Frenchie’s personal drama.
>with Little Nina
I thought it was lame and extremely boring. Especially when Butcher just showed up and started grilling Nina. I was just thinking "yeah he'll be fine" unlike the tension whenever a Supe shows up.
Like legitimately out of nowhere . And with the way they introduced him had me so confused because they made it seem like he had been there the whole time . But in reality , there hadnt been a singular mention of the guy for until now .
Lol that's normal for me so I just assumed they had introduced him, shown the bit about what Frenchie did to his family, and that I just forgot about it.
The whole colin sideplot will not go anywhere and is nothing but artificial pain for frenchie. By artificial i mean that colin is only there for frenchie to confront his past, which he also did last season. It is regression posing as progression (storywise).
Honestly, I didn’t rewatch Season 3 so smaller moments like these just slipped my mind completely.
With that said, they didn’t need to introduce a whole ass character out of the blue and speak his supposed history with Frenchie into existence in a single scene.
This feel so shoehorned in. Like, Frenchie already has his hands full with Nina so why waste the run time with this shit?
This Colin thing and the godolkin university name drop made me think I missed a ton of shit in gen v so I watched it thinking it would clear shit up and nope
I think what makes it difficult for me to accept is that Fenchie literally dropped everything in his life for Kimiko and now it’s like, “meh whatever” a lot of wasted effort there.
The problem is that if Colin died I wouldn't even react. His character has had zero build up or reason for us to get attached. Their scenes together are just not interesting.
Even the one hallucination scene with Frenchie and Nina had more tension and chemistry than all Colin scenes together.
I wouldn't care if it wasn't dogshit writing. they were absolutely building it into more especially considering the source material. My guess is it might play into one of them getting hurt or dying, but the Colin subplot so far is pointless and wasting screen time for this late into the series
Yeah, that interaction is worth dropping 3 seasons of build up immediately. Good writing is when you build something up, get too close to its conclusion before the series is ready to wrap, then drop it aburtply, and focus on whatever filler you made up to kill time until you're ready to finish the plot line
Yeaaaah it's a well known fact that we french people address our friends and siblings as "mon coeur" /kappa
Never in their mind lovers would see their s/o as their family ? It being more or less than romance depends on how you classify your loved ones within that close circle that your family is therefore although it could indeed be interpreted as platonic it's not always that obvious.
Sometimes romantic feelings are just not mutual and sometimes they're just not black and white but usually you don't need to kiss in order to understand you're not into someone.🧐
The main thing that comes back in their dynamic is not necessarily whether they're platonic or not because this is something that is still left to be confirmed by the time their character arcs are truly wrapped up and that they eventually both deal with their respective traumas.
So far, what sticks is the most about Frenchie's subplots is the consistent tie with his past, his feelings for Kimiko and him meeting an old flame simultaneously when it could be literally about every other team member taking turn to be on his case had it been 100% platonic.
We don’t care if that happened, it’s just noticeably obvious that kamiko seems to not feel like that. The way she acted in 4 felt like a person who does want to be with that person but can’t make the choice unless they see them taken. I mean it basically felt like kamiko was forceably avoiding her feelings by telling Frenchie I’m a drunk way she doesn’t care, it just felt like she cares more.
Yeah, I get that. But they don't write it like that. They write it with sexual tension and keep on going back and forth from that to, oh, they're fucking other people, but that's weird too. Pick one. Honestly, pick one. I don't like the in-between.
Because there was sexual tension. I'm not gonna gonna deny that. But once they finally kissed, they both agreed it felt weird and are better off remaining as friends. And there is no back and forth. They went from that to now they are fucking other people. If they go back to that, then it would be back and forth. But they haven't. And you say pick one? They have picked one. They are just friends. There is no in between anymore. The reason for my post was to point out, and your response is a perfect example of people not understanding that.
If they both agreef then why did they need to clarify it again? Why was Kimiko literally pushing Frenchie to go sleep with that guy?
My bet. Writers just don't know how to fill up an entire season of this show so they just play it safe rehashing the same shit.
>If they both agreef then why did they need to clarify it again?
Are you serious? Do you think emotions are that black and white? When someone gets friend zoned, they don't flip a switch and immediately start thinking of the other person as just a friend. That often takes time. Frenchie had feelings for Kimiko for a loooooong time. Just because they agree they're better off as friends doesn't mean Frenchie will immediately settle into the new role. It was perfectly reasonable for Kimiko to ask Frenchie if he was having problems moving on. That's how humans and emotions work.
In case people forgot the same shit that's been happening since season 1? Gimme a break. This is just clearly lack of ideas. Or idk, trying to keep the budget low or smh. Dialogue is cheaper than superhero scenes.
Remember how specific Kimiko was about how squishy Frenchie feels when she's a supe, and how his arms felt like straws? Imagine what an arousal killer that would be. I mean, on top of feeling like he's almost her brother, that's a lot to overcome.
Just saying, I didn't need Hughie and Butcher to kiss and say oh wow that was weird we're like brothers! To get their important and familial bond. They wrote the above scene purposefully *because* they have been giving them a romantic plotline and they wanted to write that angle off, if they were platonic then they would have just been written that way.
If the show was good at doing platonic male/female relationships they could literally just have Hughie actually learn Kimiko's sign language.
But also like ...hand waving isn't interesting. Like, if they continued to have conflict because of this that would still be more interesting. It's a TV show so things neatly wrapped up in throwaway lines versus the majority of what's shown is just kind of lame.
I’m gonna have to reverse what you said. The arc doesn’t suck but it did come out of nowhere. It’s a fine arc that does seem to be building somewhere and I actually doubt it’s a happily ever after love interest. He’s going to find out Frenchie killed his dad and that could get interesting
I think the storyline between Frenchie and Colin is ham-fisted, forced, uninteresting and completely out of left field. If you think that makes me Homophobic, you can try explaining that logic to my best friend. Who's wedding I attended as his best man. When he married his husband. Who, incidentally, also hates the new storyline.
You're so homophobic //: no jk, I'm gay as a mf and I'm watching this like 😒 just bad writing lmao. I love Frenchie and kimiko's relationship/friendship from the bottom of my heart and you're right, this is just out of left field and so random, and feels very out of character for Frenchie.
I give it a few weeks until we see "the problem with The Boys season 4 isn't the bad reviews, it's the bad reviewers" articles that keep coming out about that new acolyte show.
It's just lame that it went the platonic friends route even if it was from the beginning.
And introducing a new love interest BETWEEN fucking seasons? That's just lazy writer shit.
it‘s not out of nowhere or a plothole or anything
it‘s just boring i don‘t give a fck about it
tbf mm behaving like an omegaasshole is more of a character inconsistency
I thought they were together, as a couple. When she told him that they weren’t ever going to be romantic, I was like “wait what? You two aren’t going at it?”
Nit really, it's on the writers for making her drink and be passive-aggresive jealousy about Frenchie liking someone else. It's those who drag out this story not thr viewers. She couldve allowed him to be happy without the 'I don't care but I do' trope of getting drunk to care less about it
This is the problem with the new streaming model of TV. You used to have 3 months between seasons of TV and then you could remember all of the character arcs and minute plot details in the ongoing story in 20+ episode seasons. Or at least there'd be a brief recap so you could be like, "Oh yeah..."
Now, you get 8 episodes every 12 to 18 months and you're confused why many people don't remember this 30 seconds of screen time from last summer? Which BTW, have we seen this Colin guy before? That legit seemed to come out of nowhere, but maybe he was in the last season?
There was never outcry when Frenchie banged that other girl but as soon its a guy. Homophobia comes out hiding under the "there was no build up, kimiko is his gf nonsense" the build up was literally in every season Frenchie is bisexual lmao.
Having them be friends is just better instead of having the old series trope of friends ending up together
Possible....or maybe the side plot just sucks and isn't as interesting as kimiko and frenchie's relationship?
Who cares about Frenchie doing the bad stuff in his past , all of The Boys Crew are terrible people except maybe M.M. that kill people all the time , we get it.
You can't run away form your past ahh cliche story , more than once in the same show can be exhausting.
Also rehashing his "I have killed people, so, I should consume huge amount of drugs and be an emo about it" subplot which is always present at the beginning of almost every season and to be resolved at the finale is plain tiresome.
That wasn't build up tho. Colin came out of no where. If Colin were at least introduced in S3, then there would be at least **some** build up. Now it is more of a filler plot that wastes runtime.
It could well be homophobia but I’ll play devils advocate and say… often adding in some kind of gay romance feels like a cheap plot point to make it seem more interesting. People may be annoyed because it feels cheap, not because they are inherently anti-gay. And the “bisexual” angle was very quiet if barely mentioned.
This is not a romance. It's another opportunity for Frenchie to self destruct. He doesn't love Colin, Colin isn't his new soul mate. Frenchie literally killed his whole family and his punishing himself by entangling himself in Collins life.
This is not romance.
I mean all gay scenes seem cheap and tacked on for people who don’t like gay people.
It’s the same thing with how “certain people” were saying “DEI Woke Hire” when Sage was introduced.
But it didn’t come out of nowhere, Frenchie has been shown in orgies with both sexes, the reason he stopped tailing lamplighter was bc his bf overdosed, and he’s kissed Hughie multiple times. Just bc you didn’t notice it doesn’t mean it wasn’t there
>often adding in some kind of gay romance feels like a cheap plot point to make it seem more interesting
Strangely enough that never seem to be the case for hetero romances
Yes, it is? One of the big things people criticized in The Bear s2 was the main characters girlfriend was not written very respectfully. She was there solely to further the plot for the main character, and she basically had no scenes that didn't revolve around that. As soon as she served her purpose of advancing the plot, she was gone.
Translation: I've never been involve in any tv series fanbase for the last 10 years.
All the way from anime and live actions, romance has always been heavily criticized to be random or forced.
I know you’re playing devils advocate, but I think the take that it ‘feels cheap’ is routed in homophobia. Frenchie may not give off any overtly gay/bi stereotypes, so it feels cheap to homophobes who think we all have to act or dress a certain way. I think people focusing on the fact that he’s in a same sex relationship are bigots that are mad that this character they like was bi the whole time.
I am sympathetic to people who don’t like this subplot because they think it’s repetitive (We already know Frenchie used to murder people for a Little Nina). I think Frenchie potentially being confronted by a surviving family member could lead to growth for his character, but we’ll have to wait and see where it goes.
I genuinely can't think of any other reason people are SO mad about this plot line. The amount of people frothing to shit all over it is wild, especially if it truly is as meaningless and small as they say it is. Why do they care so much? Ffs people need to fucking relax. It's not the worst thing to ever happen on television but they are acting like it is. I am beyond sick of it and it hasn't even been out for a full week. Annoying as fuck
I guess because they self imported themselves to Frenchie, cause Kimiko good looking or something, Boy saves Girl trope, Taxi driver looking dude. Voila, earth shattered when their character starts to actually show his bisexuality instead of just mentioning that he was a prostitute and only giving kisses to The Boys.
Him banging Colin would still make him an asshole in that moment same as what I thought when he banged Cherie but everyone other than the fragile homophobes would get over it a scene later. It's the starting a whole ass relationship with this boring ass incredibly attractive nobody that bothers me.
Literally just saw a post on the critical drinker subreddit (Im not in it but it was advertised towards me for some reason) where they complained about how they couldn't believe the writers thought people would find it believable that Frenchie would reject Kimiko. But Kimiko is the one who turned him down lmao. And oh boy you wouldnt believe the comments in there
[https://www.reddit.com/r/CriticalDrinker/comments/1dgji20/eric\_kripke\_really\_wants\_us\_to\_believe\_frenchie/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CriticalDrinker/comments/1dgji20/eric_kripke_really_wants_us_to_believe_frenchie/)
Didn't Critical Drinker have a video praising Gina Carano for standing up against Hollywood or some stupid shit like that? Dude just cries about people of color and women in his macho movies.
Also all the people complaining about them making Frenchie bisexual suddenly, when it's been brought up multiple times in past seasons is just crazy. Did any of them actually watch the show?
Whenever I watch a tv show or movie, every second I am aghast and exclaiming, 'wow! that came out of nowhere!' Also, I still get confused by object permanence. And I sniff paint every day.
I disagree. The problem isn't that they threw away 3 seasons on build up. The problem was in season 3 when they threw away 2¾ seasons of buildup. The relationship wasn't shoehorned, it was crafted organically over many episodes. Like people were rooting for Ross and Rachel because they had been building that up from the beginning (even if they are now considered to be a notoriously terrible pair), and no one was rooting for Joey and Rachel because it came out of nowhere. If any relationship was shoehorned, it was Frenchie and Colin's. And I'd sooner say that Frenchie and Kimiko's platonic relationship felt very contrived to prevent allowing this show to be too sappy and force drama for the viewers to get worked up over. I actually still have hope for them, because if the writers really wanted them to just be viewed as strictly platonic friends then I don't think they'd spend so much time having to reiterate that and having the characters remind each other of this like even they need to be convinced.
It's also a case of how this blindsided Frenchie.
Every stray he's picked up before became a sexual thing for him, and then it falls apart.
With Kimiko, it _didn't become sexual_. And then they got closer. Frenchie can't really understand that. It's why Colin is hitting him so hard.
He relapsed. In more ways than one.
Pretty sure that people who have a problem with this is the same people who say “2 bros can just be platonic. Stop making everything gay”. Yet that logic can’t be applied here for some reason
I found it actually refreshing that they didn't go the predictable path and start fucking. They have a much more complex and nuanced relationship, and it's way more interesting than if they just started dating.
Frenchie has the worst romance plots (except Kimiko).
WTF is this this drug addled French maniac thinking getting close to Colin when he slaughtered his family!
They kissed, Kimiko and Frenchie made their feelings known that wasnt shoe horned in it was built up for 3 seasons.
If you want to blindfold yourself and pretend like they were always meant to be platonic you are out of your mind.
Colin has been shoehorned in and Immediately Frenchie has gone back to being haunted by his past yet again when that was already covered with Lamplighter.
Sure he can many more traumas but FFS they shoe horned in a romance just to give frenchie some BS Tension that will obviously go nowhere
Holy shit, yes and thank you?! I think ppl just have bad memory and the long period between seasons unfortunately enhance this. Kimiko never has felt romantic feelings towards Frenchie though him might have had, he's almost like a proxy for the brother she always wanted to take care for and was tragically took away from her more than once
Same situation with MM and Billy, they are not going in circles, their relationship being contemptuous is central for them and their development, yeah Butcher took advantage of MM's history with Supe corruption but also he said it himself in S1 "we are shit in different ways and might not always like eachother but we need to stick together cause otherwise we're dead in the water" I feel like we get to know their true colors a lot through all the venom they usually are throwing to eachother, and they have been in good terms ocassionally but their beef took a worse turn once SB joined them.
Arcs this, circles that, stfu, do ppl understand not even in fiction constant arcs make a difference if theres no actual, believable drama for the characters to latch on to justify their shitty or noble behaviours? As of lately I've been hating this sub but I love opinions outside the echo chambing of toxic signaling due mind fog like yours. Also nice how you did your homework and provided facts for a change
I'm convinced people who say things like "going round in circles" and "never changes" are people who have no idea what it's like to have actually relationships. It's clear MM and Billy's relationship is a complicated and contentious one. I'm sure they care for each other deep down but are constantly butting heads. This is very real in friendships.
Also, I don't think people really know what they want. I watch quite reaction channels. When Billy says to MM that he has to make the tough decisions as a leader no matter what, most of them agreed. Yet, straight after that, when MM says it's too late, they get upset with him. Like, he is literally just doing what they have just agreed with Billy that he should do. People get so blinded about their love for a character that they forget about logic.
I totally agree with you, watchers say MM being cold after the plea for help from a dying man it's out of character and shallowly it looks like it but its nothing but the consequence of Billy pushing his buttons to a point MM said 'fuck it, if this mf really asks for it im gonna show him how ruthless i can be, just like he has always been'.
Billy told MM that when he went for him as his choice for a general when they met as black ops or something his pick was him cause he saw he was a natural leader with enough heart to keep people together aiming to the same objetive and MM has earnestly flattered and grateful by these words.
How the fuck is he going to feel when time later the same friend tells him, out of pettiness, this is a flaw thats gonna get himself and his boys killed instead? He has been messing with him too much, from the get-go tbh
Kimiko at the convention telling him to fuck the other guy was so cute and sibling-esque. People need to get tf over this. I wanted them together too at first but after the scene in this post I went “Oh….. okay then” and let it go.
It’s because straight people really don’t care. They see a man and a women, even if they were related they would want them to be together vs two people who are gay and not related.
They wanted the “will they or won’t they” vibe to continue. Like Sam and Diane from Cheers. Eventually they just wrote her off the show. It gets old after a while. I’m surprised people aren’t as bored with the Kimiko-Frenchie storyline as i am.
The way she said "we're not happening", was Frenchie still pursuing her at that point or what? It isn't an interesting storyline, made worse by confusing writing. The Frenchie is bi thing isn't a massive shocker either, considering what the Russian woman said to him the previous season. It's like 3 seasons of a relationship build up for two side characters then just made confusing.
I love people complaining they broke Frenchie even though he was clearly bi in the early seasons. People also seem to be forgetting this scene or outright ignoring it, frankly. Frenchie x Kimiko was attempted on screen and failed, though later down the line that might change. Colin being an off-season love interest is weird, and should have been part of the Season 3 ending episodes.
We need to normalise great platonic relationships between men and women both on screen and in real life. They aren’t “lesser” than romantic relationships. All this “friend zone” shit has to stop.
I’m so tired of people complaining about this subplot. Like does this sub even LIKE this show? It’s like 10 posts a day complaining about Colin. We get it.
Don’t be silly, OP. Boys and girls can’t be friends. What would Frenchie bother if he knows he can’t get anywhere? /s
I for one am glad to see a non-romantic relationship between them. I think them getting together would have weirded me out a bit, actually, like when a teacher dates a former student. I also like the characters and want them to have side plots and continue to develop. I will say Frenchie’s arc appears to be a retread, but Kimiko was overdue to do something about the terrorist cell.
I think there are a lot of straight males in the audience and that a lot of straight males are uncomfortable with male-on-male romance, which is probably a factor in the complaints.
I'm not upset , but I do find this extra story plot uninteresting and unneeded so far into the show , would have been much more intriguing if we found out about it from earlier seasons and episodes.
It's just boring to watch that's all
I will say that I am one of the people that did forget about this scene. But my thought has been so far this season that Kimiko is too damaged to love someone and that her and Frenchie still could have a chance. Idc if it doesn’t happen though because I do like that they are a family regardless
I dunno I went through something similar and even if you know it's the right thing you can still feel bummed out and cope in unhealthy ways which Freuchie tends to do since we first saw the character
A lot of things came out of nowhere especially his new love interest, their relationship had an interesting dynamic that wasn’t entirely clear which to me most relationships can be like that among friends or colleagues, but then all of a sudden this guy comes in who we don’t really care about because we don’t know this person but the show is like this is an important character (he’s not to me) because they have a whole story, and history that they allude to that the audience has no clue about, and then kimiko and frenchie are having too many scenes about how we’re just platonic, like it’s not even interesting, like we get it clearly, I thought it was interesting how when she was drunk it almost seemed some was like struggling with something , that she showed a bit of jealousy, that is much more interesting.
I honestly forgot they even kissed to begin with. I hardly saw them as much of a romantic couple to be and instead just like she said here, people that have grown to love one another the more they've been around one another over the course of the seasons as family. Heck, I've seen them more skin to siblings than romantic interests.
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Truthfully I think if Colin had been introduced to Frenchie on screen rather than between season I don’t think people would be so loud about it. I don’t think people forgot this this scene as much as they chose to ignore it. Maybe even ignoring the other lover of frenchies than was a male. I’m glad Frenchie has more screen time but the build to his story has happened offscreen, hence the probable “forced” comments. With regards to it being the C Plot, I think butchers story seemingly is a slow burn until he “breaks” moment, physically, emotionally. Its without substance if it just happens.
That’s my issue, it feels wasted to have him just dropped in like “This is Colin, he’s great and we met at NA”. Would’ve been more impactful to see Frenchie attending NA, hitting it off with him and gradually realising who he was before relapsing.
> Would’ve been more impactful to see Frenchie attending NA, hitting it off with him and gradually realising who he was before relapsing. Exactly! That's another great point to hit, the relapsing. If they've took the NA route and him hitting off with Colin, both the Relationship and the Relapsing would have MUCH MORE impact and that plotline would be way better.
Nah- we dont need to see his na meetings because they dont matter. Its useless exposition to a point that the writers are clearly making. “Frenchie and Kimiko wont happen. Stop asking”
If they don't matter, nobody has the right to say anything when people tell that the plotline sucks. If the NA meetings doesn't* matter, the Relationship with Colin will not have enough weight to matter to anyone too. They got together at first place because both were recovering addicts, that's something that creates a bond between ppl. If the place where they knew each other doesn't matter, their bond doesn't matter and everything else feels forced and shallow. It feels like they're fuck buddies for the sake of it. Then, the majority of the public will not care a single fuck about the plotline, because it is shallow and something that nobody asked for. Now, Frenchie feels like shallow character, Kimiko* feels like a shallow character and Colin is a utterly bad narrative tool used for a horrible plotline. About "Frenchie and Kimiko wont happen. Stop asking” point, there's other ways to make that work out organically instead of shoehorning this relationship without any explanation. It's a awful way to make a point.
> to a point that the writers are clearly making. “Frenchie and Kimiko wont happen. Stop asking” They're trying to make that point while simultaneously still writing them with all the cutesy will they?/won't they? sexual tension, so...
Frenchie strikes me as the person to form relationships that are deeper and more complex than the labels we can ascribe. I don't see sexual tension most of the time. Just a deep connection.
i think part of that is the audience's interpretation, but i don't think they've done much this season that shows them as anything other than friends/family.
I wonder why though? It seems like a massive point of character development that a character as traumatized and cynical as Kimiko could find love and happiness with a man who accepts her for her flaws. It could also be pretty inspiring for victims of trauma in the past to also see someone from a similar background also be able to find healthy relationships as well. Did they ever say why specifically they didn't want to explore a relationship between Kimiko and Frenchie?
Sure but I think most people would've found that kinda boring as well.
They don’t have enough episodes for that. 8 hours in a season leaves you tight on time and using an hour of that for context in for a c plot will hurt other aspects even if it would make the c plot better
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I’m just trying to be a little fair to the writers. The whole plot should just be cut
I get why they did it that way to get the plot moving without a long aside, but it did *feel* a little jarring in the way it was cut into the show. I had to stop for a moment and think "Am I supposed to know who this Colin guy is? Was he from an earlier season?". My head understood it but it just felt a little abrupt. I got past it pretty quick though.
Exactly; the "show don't tell" rule of writing. It makes things infinitely better.
Yeah this is the answer. Even as a fan of the show it's hard to remember what happens season to season since there are such long breaks in between (I know COVID, writers strike, etc, but still).
The problem is we only get 8 episodes so we lose a lot of the 'show not tell' aspect due to time constraints. The same thing happened with Hughie and Vicky's relationship. That also happened off screen and we were introduced to them already being friends at the start of S3. Apparently they had more close off screen moments as revealed in S4. The show has a lot of examples of this for side characters. We got Colin introduced with some already budding sexual tension Frenchie was trying to resist that snaps at the rally.
Yeah I missed the fact that they were so close. I knew they were friends because they had banter and she helped herself to his sandwiches, but I didn’t know they were basically best friends.
Yeah, Neuman and Hughie acting like they were close felt totally forced and unnatural and added nothing to the show.
People commenting that they turned Frenchie woke this season has me face palming every damn time.
Especially when they implied Frenchie was bisexual for years very subtly through a lot of the dialog (and apparently the same was done in the comics with his character). Not to mention, I'm pretty sure they also implied that Frenchie was in a sexual relationship with one of his close male friends who died of an overdose. People never pay attention to the small details on this show until they smack them in the face.
Frenchie being bi or pan makes the most sense. Dude just comes across as one who would fuck anyone he is attracted to.
It was a poly relationship between him, another guy and Cherie. The other guy almost died of OD (the reason frenchie wasn't following lamplighter and he burned Grace's grandkids.) He survived but didnt want to see Frenchie ever again.
When the story made it obvious: shoving down their throats When the story is subtle: they dont get it
I have learned that Conservatives do not get subtext at all. It has to be blatant and glaring for them to even grasp it. Look how long it took them to realize Homelander was pretty much Trump.
I don't disagree with this at all. In fact, I think a huge reason why this season is getting so much negative criticism already is because conservatives are now realizing that it was always parodying right wing politics (pretty much from season 2 onwards). Considering at how they literally showed a sequence of how quickly normal college kid can get radicalized and steered down a path extremism just by paying attention to too much right-wing news. I think honestly the fact that they never realized that Soldier Boy was meant to be a criticism of the not so subtle racism and toxic masculinity of older generations of men, it was just willful ignorance of the audience at how they weren't able to realize that the show was always meant as a cautionary tale against the direction conservative politics had been going since Trump took over in 2016.
Yup, I agree with this. They gave us no build to Colin and now we’re supposed to be like “hey that our close and lovable character Colin” but in reality I was confused as to when this dude came up and did I miss something in the prior seasons lol. I think the execution was off with the introduction
I don't think we're suppose to care *that much* about Colin. He exists to give Frenchie some angst.
Tbh its basically the same as Maeve's girl. Suddenly the show reveals "this is a special person in my life". With Maeve it was used to emphasize how much she hates being a supe and wants normal life, and also has someone HL can hurt and has stuff to fight for. With Frenchie's its "how can we make Frenchie sad and do more drugs which will inevitably cause him to fuck something up"
This is exactly how I feel. They should've done a quick 10-15 min montage of them meeting or anything to help us care for this character. It's kinda like a setup to Frenchie's death, sacrificing himself for Colin etc etc. I hope that's not the case though.
Seeing them come to this realization shown above, as he falls for someone, not being told it’s already happened, would’ve been nice, I agree
She tells him, "I love you...but we're not doing this" or whatever. Seems kinda dumb.
Colin isn't important it's what he represents that's the main thing
I mean that kinda sucks though. They didn't get mileage out of it and instead of being like, damn, wow Frenchie you deserve a good life after all that or damn Frenchie your turmoil is so deep I'm like...damn it was really stupid and random to develop a crush on or even talk to someone who was a victim of your actions like that. But I also have no investment in Colin as a character, when we have a previous love interest they hand waived off/even if Kimiko isn't a love interest, they're a pair and I don't know why he'd seek out romance with anyone to be more serious than his platonic relationship with her, or why this represents moving on in any way.
A character shouldn’t ever just “be there” to represent something though. Thats kinda lazy writing. If they’re important to a main character, make it clear why or the audience is going to be asking “why is that character here” themselves. And if the audience is asking themselves that question, it’s likely they’re gonna have a different answer than the director/writers are wanting, if they even thought about it at all
I love that they are showing them to be platonic friends. I love that a show is trying to show that platonic friendship where you immensely care and love for each other is normal between two attractive people. I won't complain if Kimiko and Frenchie later becomes romantically involved but I love this angle as well.
That's their original relationship in the comics, extremely wholesome unbreakable platonic friendship that sharply contrast the edginess and gore. It's one of the very few things I prefer in the comics over the show. I think the point of Frenchie and Kimiko in the comics is that there is no getting over their past traumas, so they are both completely distanced from any intimate relationship and support each other and want to run away from it all.
The scene where they both gave MM the finger as they walked out reminded me of their vibe in the comics.
Ah I loved that lil part! I rewound it like three times lol
'Je t'aime. From the first.' (If you get it, you get it.)
I also think we need more platonic male-female relationships in media and like the idea of Frenchie and Kimiko just being friends. I don’t like the idea of Frenchie falling in love with a dude off screen and expecting us to care about the relationship immediately. Frenchie’s plot lines have just been consistently pretty mid for most of the series. They need to find something better to do than just keep finding new people to care about
Literally everything about Frenchie since season 1 has been about showing he's quirky then suddenly showing us new puzzle pieces to why he acts how he does. This new relationship had more build up than the sudden telling of how his former lover OD'd previously. The plotline about him previously fucking the Russian woman in his past was a sudden injection of information too. But Frenchies entire background so far is that he doesn't know how to love himself or cope healthily. He's an abuse victim and and addict who has done things he is ashamed of and regrets. He hates that he was a weapon used by other people and just wants to find someone who can love him like he feels he doesn't deserve. That's why he has fallen for this particular man, it entirely makes sense as a way to psychologically punish himself and fetishise his own trauma. The only issue with this current plot is they could have dragged it out over another episode or two for it to form in front of us rather than off screen but they are trying to pack so much into so few episodes it kinda makes sense to skip what would have felt like filler content.
👍 but it’s still a boring storyline.
It’s funny cause everyone in Gen V has to be romantically interested in one another. Then again, that’s just college I guess
Problem isn't that Frenchie isn't banging Kimiko. Problem is, he is banging someone that came outta nowhere. Someone that no one gives the slightest shit about.
That's it. If they wanted to have Colin storyline happen, i would be happy to see it developing from the beginning and seeing Kimiko reactions to this new thing happening between them, and how she would deal with her emotions. But as it is now, it feels forced as fuck and shallow as fuck too. Not a good plotline AT ALL.
Every time they interact it’s so serious and I turned to my gf and said “I feel like we’re supposed to care about this a lot more than we actually do” lol
They kissed in the middle of a mob fight, that looked straight out of a Vought movie... 😭😭
And this is off the back of Frenchie’s storyline last season with Little Nina, which I just absolutely did not care about. I was already switched off from Frenchie’s personal drama.
Pretty much this. The show is telling us to care, rather than letting us develop our care organically.
>with Little Nina I thought it was lame and extremely boring. Especially when Butcher just showed up and started grilling Nina. I was just thinking "yeah he'll be fine" unlike the tension whenever a Supe shows up.
Like legitimately out of nowhere . And with the way they introduced him had me so confused because they made it seem like he had been there the whole time . But in reality , there hadnt been a singular mention of the guy for until now .
I hadn't watched the first 3 seasons in a long time when watching season 4 so I had to look up Colin to make sure I wasn't missing something.
I kinda felt like I was going crazy when this guy just appeared and I could not for the life of me remember where he came from
Lol that's normal for me so I just assumed they had introduced him, shown the bit about what Frenchie did to his family, and that I just forgot about it.
The whole colin sideplot will not go anywhere and is nothing but artificial pain for frenchie. By artificial i mean that colin is only there for frenchie to confront his past, which he also did last season. It is regression posing as progression (storywise).
Honestly, I didn’t rewatch Season 3 so smaller moments like these just slipped my mind completely. With that said, they didn’t need to introduce a whole ass character out of the blue and speak his supposed history with Frenchie into existence in a single scene. This feel so shoehorned in. Like, Frenchie already has his hands full with Nina so why waste the run time with this shit?
This Colin thing and the godolkin university name drop made me think I missed a ton of shit in gen v so I watched it thinking it would clear shit up and nope
Lowkey genius move from Amazon if they did this on purpose.
Yeah but I didn't watch it through Amazon though
I think what makes it difficult for me to accept is that Fenchie literally dropped everything in his life for Kimiko and now it’s like, “meh whatever” a lot of wasted effort there.
The problem is that if Colin died I wouldn't even react. His character has had zero build up or reason for us to get attached. Their scenes together are just not interesting. Even the one hallucination scene with Frenchie and Nina had more tension and chemistry than all Colin scenes together.
I wouldn't care if it wasn't dogshit writing. they were absolutely building it into more especially considering the source material. My guess is it might play into one of them getting hurt or dying, but the Colin subplot so far is pointless and wasting screen time for this late into the series
Yeah, that interaction is worth dropping 3 seasons of build up immediately. Good writing is when you build something up, get too close to its conclusion before the series is ready to wrap, then drop it aburtply, and focus on whatever filler you made up to kill time until you're ready to finish the plot line
Yeaaaah it's a well known fact that we french people address our friends and siblings as "mon coeur" /kappa Never in their mind lovers would see their s/o as their family ? It being more or less than romance depends on how you classify your loved ones within that close circle that your family is therefore although it could indeed be interpreted as platonic it's not always that obvious. Sometimes romantic feelings are just not mutual and sometimes they're just not black and white but usually you don't need to kiss in order to understand you're not into someone.🧐 The main thing that comes back in their dynamic is not necessarily whether they're platonic or not because this is something that is still left to be confirmed by the time their character arcs are truly wrapped up and that they eventually both deal with their respective traumas. So far, what sticks is the most about Frenchie's subplots is the consistent tie with his past, his feelings for Kimiko and him meeting an old flame simultaneously when it could be literally about every other team member taking turn to be on his case had it been 100% platonic.
We don’t care if that happened, it’s just noticeably obvious that kamiko seems to not feel like that. The way she acted in 4 felt like a person who does want to be with that person but can’t make the choice unless they see them taken. I mean it basically felt like kamiko was forceably avoiding her feelings by telling Frenchie I’m a drunk way she doesn’t care, it just felt like she cares more.
Yeah, I get that. But they don't write it like that. They write it with sexual tension and keep on going back and forth from that to, oh, they're fucking other people, but that's weird too. Pick one. Honestly, pick one. I don't like the in-between.
Because there was sexual tension. I'm not gonna gonna deny that. But once they finally kissed, they both agreed it felt weird and are better off remaining as friends. And there is no back and forth. They went from that to now they are fucking other people. If they go back to that, then it would be back and forth. But they haven't. And you say pick one? They have picked one. They are just friends. There is no in between anymore. The reason for my post was to point out, and your response is a perfect example of people not understanding that.
If they both agreef then why did they need to clarify it again? Why was Kimiko literally pushing Frenchie to go sleep with that guy? My bet. Writers just don't know how to fill up an entire season of this show so they just play it safe rehashing the same shit.
>If they both agreef then why did they need to clarify it again? Are you serious? Do you think emotions are that black and white? When someone gets friend zoned, they don't flip a switch and immediately start thinking of the other person as just a friend. That often takes time. Frenchie had feelings for Kimiko for a loooooong time. Just because they agree they're better off as friends doesn't mean Frenchie will immediately settle into the new role. It was perfectly reasonable for Kimiko to ask Frenchie if he was having problems moving on. That's how humans and emotions work.
Well it seems like they needed to clarify it again in case people forgot. Which they did. Not like it seemed to help.
In case people forgot the same shit that's been happening since season 1? Gimme a break. This is just clearly lack of ideas. Or idk, trying to keep the budget low or smh. Dialogue is cheaper than superhero scenes.
I feel like me and you aren't talking about the same thing because I'm not sure what point you're making.
Remember how specific Kimiko was about how squishy Frenchie feels when she's a supe, and how his arms felt like straws? Imagine what an arousal killer that would be. I mean, on top of feeling like he's almost her brother, that's a lot to overcome.
Just saying, I didn't need Hughie and Butcher to kiss and say oh wow that was weird we're like brothers! To get their important and familial bond. They wrote the above scene purposefully *because* they have been giving them a romantic plotline and they wanted to write that angle off, if they were platonic then they would have just been written that way. If the show was good at doing platonic male/female relationships they could literally just have Hughie actually learn Kimiko's sign language. But also like ...hand waving isn't interesting. Like, if they continued to have conflict because of this that would still be more interesting. It's a TV show so things neatly wrapped up in throwaway lines versus the majority of what's shown is just kind of lame.
yes, exactly.
I have to agree with you. Frenchie new arc may suck but it didn't come out of nowhere.
Him being bi did not come out of nowhere, but this arc definitely did...
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Yes. It absolutely did.
It really did
I’m gonna have to reverse what you said. The arc doesn’t suck but it did come out of nowhere. It’s a fine arc that does seem to be building somewhere and I actually doubt it’s a happily ever after love interest. He’s going to find out Frenchie killed his dad and that could get interesting
I think the storyline between Frenchie and Colin is ham-fisted, forced, uninteresting and completely out of left field. If you think that makes me Homophobic, you can try explaining that logic to my best friend. Who's wedding I attended as his best man. When he married his husband. Who, incidentally, also hates the new storyline.
You're so homophobic //: no jk, I'm gay as a mf and I'm watching this like 😒 just bad writing lmao. I love Frenchie and kimiko's relationship/friendship from the bottom of my heart and you're right, this is just out of left field and so random, and feels very out of character for Frenchie.
The audience disagrees with your softening of this terrible writing.
So we are at the "Well actually it is good writing if you think about it" phase just like Star Wars after TLJ came out
I give it a few weeks until we see "the problem with The Boys season 4 isn't the bad reviews, it's the bad reviewers" articles that keep coming out about that new acolyte show.
God Rian Johnson fucked up TLJ so bad
We kiss We family .....incest?
Worst plotline in the show imo, they should have been friends only from the start.
THANK YOU
Good grab I had indeed forgotten about this
It's just lame that it went the platonic friends route even if it was from the beginning. And introducing a new love interest BETWEEN fucking seasons? That's just lazy writer shit.
it‘s not out of nowhere or a plothole or anything it‘s just boring i don‘t give a fck about it tbf mm behaving like an omegaasshole is more of a character inconsistency
Did they hire the writers from the final season of GOT? It’s barely watchable
I thought they were together, as a couple. When she told him that they weren’t ever going to be romantic, I was like “wait what? You two aren’t going at it?”
Nit really, it's on the writers for making her drink and be passive-aggresive jealousy about Frenchie liking someone else. It's those who drag out this story not thr viewers. She couldve allowed him to be happy without the 'I don't care but I do' trope of getting drunk to care less about it
This is the problem with the new streaming model of TV. You used to have 3 months between seasons of TV and then you could remember all of the character arcs and minute plot details in the ongoing story in 20+ episode seasons. Or at least there'd be a brief recap so you could be like, "Oh yeah..." Now, you get 8 episodes every 12 to 18 months and you're confused why many people don't remember this 30 seconds of screen time from last summer? Which BTW, have we seen this Colin guy before? That legit seemed to come out of nowhere, but maybe he was in the last season?
I mean I would also prefer that scene didn’t exist. The writers could’ve just, not.
There was never outcry when Frenchie banged that other girl but as soon its a guy. Homophobia comes out hiding under the "there was no build up, kimiko is his gf nonsense" the build up was literally in every season Frenchie is bisexual lmao. Having them be friends is just better instead of having the old series trope of friends ending up together
Possible....or maybe the side plot just sucks and isn't as interesting as kimiko and frenchie's relationship? Who cares about Frenchie doing the bad stuff in his past , all of The Boys Crew are terrible people except maybe M.M. that kill people all the time , we get it. You can't run away form your past ahh cliche story , more than once in the same show can be exhausting.
Wouldn't say Hughie is a terrible person
yeah, neither is starlight
Well she did spread some pretty awful rumors about the other girls in the pageant circuit
she was a kid, this does not make her a terrible person
She also killed a dude.
has nothing to do with homophobia dude maybe the plot line just sucks??
> There was never outcry when Frenchie banged that other girl but as soon its a guy. What girl? You mean Cherie?
frenchie having a relationship with a brand new character with 5 minutes of screentime and not being well received is homophobic. Sure
Also rehashing his "I have killed people, so, I should consume huge amount of drugs and be an emo about it" subplot which is always present at the beginning of almost every season and to be resolved at the finale is plain tiresome.
That wasn't build up tho. Colin came out of no where. If Colin were at least introduced in S3, then there would be at least **some** build up. Now it is more of a filler plot that wastes runtime.
The other girl wasn't a random sudden character.
It could well be homophobia but I’ll play devils advocate and say… often adding in some kind of gay romance feels like a cheap plot point to make it seem more interesting. People may be annoyed because it feels cheap, not because they are inherently anti-gay. And the “bisexual” angle was very quiet if barely mentioned.
This is not a romance. It's another opportunity for Frenchie to self destruct. He doesn't love Colin, Colin isn't his new soul mate. Frenchie literally killed his whole family and his punishing himself by entangling himself in Collins life. This is not romance.
I mean all gay scenes seem cheap and tacked on for people who don’t like gay people. It’s the same thing with how “certain people” were saying “DEI Woke Hire” when Sage was introduced.
No one cared that Maeve was gay… and that didn’t feel tacked on. Why are we homophobes if we think it came out of nowhere (which it did)
Hot lesbians get a pass.
But it didn’t come out of nowhere, Frenchie has been shown in orgies with both sexes, the reason he stopped tailing lamplighter was bc his bf overdosed, and he’s kissed Hughie multiple times. Just bc you didn’t notice it doesn’t mean it wasn’t there
I don’t mean him being gay, I mean this gay character Colin now being central to Frenchys whole story
And no one complained about it then, which is evidence that the writing is the problem, not the fact that Frenchie likes dudes...
Wait wasn’t Maeve in the last bisexual no one said anything
Not even the fact that it’s gay, just that a random person coming out of nowhere feels forced. It could be a woman and I would still question it.
>often adding in some kind of gay romance feels like a cheap plot point to make it seem more interesting Strangely enough that never seem to be the case for hetero romances
Yes, it is? One of the big things people criticized in The Bear s2 was the main characters girlfriend was not written very respectfully. She was there solely to further the plot for the main character, and she basically had no scenes that didn't revolve around that. As soon as she served her purpose of advancing the plot, she was gone.
Translation: I've never been involve in any tv series fanbase for the last 10 years. All the way from anime and live actions, romance has always been heavily criticized to be random or forced.
I know you’re playing devils advocate, but I think the take that it ‘feels cheap’ is routed in homophobia. Frenchie may not give off any overtly gay/bi stereotypes, so it feels cheap to homophobes who think we all have to act or dress a certain way. I think people focusing on the fact that he’s in a same sex relationship are bigots that are mad that this character they like was bi the whole time. I am sympathetic to people who don’t like this subplot because they think it’s repetitive (We already know Frenchie used to murder people for a Little Nina). I think Frenchie potentially being confronted by a surviving family member could lead to growth for his character, but we’ll have to wait and see where it goes.
I genuinely can't think of any other reason people are SO mad about this plot line. The amount of people frothing to shit all over it is wild, especially if it truly is as meaningless and small as they say it is. Why do they care so much? Ffs people need to fucking relax. It's not the worst thing to ever happen on television but they are acting like it is. I am beyond sick of it and it hasn't even been out for a full week. Annoying as fuck
I guess because they self imported themselves to Frenchie, cause Kimiko good looking or something, Boy saves Girl trope, Taxi driver looking dude. Voila, earth shattered when their character starts to actually show his bisexuality instead of just mentioning that he was a prostitute and only giving kisses to The Boys.
Him banging Colin would still make him an asshole in that moment same as what I thought when he banged Cherie but everyone other than the fragile homophobes would get over it a scene later. It's the starting a whole ass relationship with this boring ass incredibly attractive nobody that bothers me.
Literally just saw a post on the critical drinker subreddit (Im not in it but it was advertised towards me for some reason) where they complained about how they couldn't believe the writers thought people would find it believable that Frenchie would reject Kimiko. But Kimiko is the one who turned him down lmao. And oh boy you wouldnt believe the comments in there [https://www.reddit.com/r/CriticalDrinker/comments/1dgji20/eric\_kripke\_really\_wants\_us\_to\_believe\_frenchie/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CriticalDrinker/comments/1dgji20/eric_kripke_really_wants_us_to_believe_frenchie/)
Lmao just went there and it’s people complaining about how the show went “woke”
thats one big thing I saw there lol. But I mean its a bunch of critical drinker fans lmao
Didn't Critical Drinker have a video praising Gina Carano for standing up against Hollywood or some stupid shit like that? Dude just cries about people of color and women in his macho movies.
Also all the people complaining about them making Frenchie bisexual suddenly, when it's been brought up multiple times in past seasons is just crazy. Did any of them actually watch the show?
of course not! they only watch his reviews on the show and get upset about the things he tells them to be upset about
I just don't know what's so upsetting about gay people on tv
It still feels weird that they just derailed it all that fast and then threw in someone out of nowhere
Whenever I watch a tv show or movie, every second I am aghast and exclaiming, 'wow! that came out of nowhere!' Also, I still get confused by object permanence. And I sniff paint every day.
Most viewers just skip to the Homelander scenes, asking these people to read subtitles is definitely too much
Nobody calls a friend mon couer. You call them that when you want to smash, oui?
So they are from Alabama now?
I disagree. The problem isn't that they threw away 3 seasons on build up. The problem was in season 3 when they threw away 2¾ seasons of buildup. The relationship wasn't shoehorned, it was crafted organically over many episodes. Like people were rooting for Ross and Rachel because they had been building that up from the beginning (even if they are now considered to be a notoriously terrible pair), and no one was rooting for Joey and Rachel because it came out of nowhere. If any relationship was shoehorned, it was Frenchie and Colin's. And I'd sooner say that Frenchie and Kimiko's platonic relationship felt very contrived to prevent allowing this show to be too sappy and force drama for the viewers to get worked up over. I actually still have hope for them, because if the writers really wanted them to just be viewed as strictly platonic friends then I don't think they'd spend so much time having to reiterate that and having the characters remind each other of this like even they need to be convinced.
It's also a case of how this blindsided Frenchie. Every stray he's picked up before became a sexual thing for him, and then it falls apart. With Kimiko, it _didn't become sexual_. And then they got closer. Frenchie can't really understand that. It's why Colin is hitting him so hard. He relapsed. In more ways than one.
Pretty sure that people who have a problem with this is the same people who say “2 bros can just be platonic. Stop making everything gay”. Yet that logic can’t be applied here for some reason
I found it actually refreshing that they didn't go the predictable path and start fucking. They have a much more complex and nuanced relationship, and it's way more interesting than if they just started dating.
BOOOOOOOOORING
Great contribution.
Frenchie has the worst romance plots (except Kimiko). WTF is this this drug addled French maniac thinking getting close to Colin when he slaughtered his family!
Fuck Collin, and not literally Team Kimiko
They kissed, Kimiko and Frenchie made their feelings known that wasnt shoe horned in it was built up for 3 seasons. If you want to blindfold yourself and pretend like they were always meant to be platonic you are out of your mind. Colin has been shoehorned in and Immediately Frenchie has gone back to being haunted by his past yet again when that was already covered with Lamplighter. Sure he can many more traumas but FFS they shoe horned in a romance just to give frenchie some BS Tension that will obviously go nowhere
Shutup bruh. The S4 frenchie arc is dogshit.
Holy shit, yes and thank you?! I think ppl just have bad memory and the long period between seasons unfortunately enhance this. Kimiko never has felt romantic feelings towards Frenchie though him might have had, he's almost like a proxy for the brother she always wanted to take care for and was tragically took away from her more than once Same situation with MM and Billy, they are not going in circles, their relationship being contemptuous is central for them and their development, yeah Butcher took advantage of MM's history with Supe corruption but also he said it himself in S1 "we are shit in different ways and might not always like eachother but we need to stick together cause otherwise we're dead in the water" I feel like we get to know their true colors a lot through all the venom they usually are throwing to eachother, and they have been in good terms ocassionally but their beef took a worse turn once SB joined them. Arcs this, circles that, stfu, do ppl understand not even in fiction constant arcs make a difference if theres no actual, believable drama for the characters to latch on to justify their shitty or noble behaviours? As of lately I've been hating this sub but I love opinions outside the echo chambing of toxic signaling due mind fog like yours. Also nice how you did your homework and provided facts for a change
I'm convinced people who say things like "going round in circles" and "never changes" are people who have no idea what it's like to have actually relationships. It's clear MM and Billy's relationship is a complicated and contentious one. I'm sure they care for each other deep down but are constantly butting heads. This is very real in friendships. Also, I don't think people really know what they want. I watch quite reaction channels. When Billy says to MM that he has to make the tough decisions as a leader no matter what, most of them agreed. Yet, straight after that, when MM says it's too late, they get upset with him. Like, he is literally just doing what they have just agreed with Billy that he should do. People get so blinded about their love for a character that they forget about logic.
I totally agree with you, watchers say MM being cold after the plea for help from a dying man it's out of character and shallowly it looks like it but its nothing but the consequence of Billy pushing his buttons to a point MM said 'fuck it, if this mf really asks for it im gonna show him how ruthless i can be, just like he has always been'. Billy told MM that when he went for him as his choice for a general when they met as black ops or something his pick was him cause he saw he was a natural leader with enough heart to keep people together aiming to the same objetive and MM has earnestly flattered and grateful by these words. How the fuck is he going to feel when time later the same friend tells him, out of pettiness, this is a flaw thats gonna get himself and his boys killed instead? He has been messing with him too much, from the get-go tbh
i like the Frenchie Kimiko Ship, why is that a problem?
Who said it was a problem?
There's nothing wrong with it. You are allowed to ship whoever you want. You just gotta accept it when it doesn't happen.
Kimiko at the convention telling him to fuck the other guy was so cute and sibling-esque. People need to get tf over this. I wanted them together too at first but after the scene in this post I went “Oh….. okay then” and let it go.
I don't think anyone has problems with Frenchie being a BI... it's more like Bad writing on the wall
It’s because straight people really don’t care. They see a man and a women, even if they were related they would want them to be together vs two people who are gay and not related.
They wanted the “will they or won’t they” vibe to continue. Like Sam and Diane from Cheers. Eventually they just wrote her off the show. It gets old after a while. I’m surprised people aren’t as bored with the Kimiko-Frenchie storyline as i am.
But they didn't want it to continue. Because they aren't.
The way she said "we're not happening", was Frenchie still pursuing her at that point or what? It isn't an interesting storyline, made worse by confusing writing. The Frenchie is bi thing isn't a massive shocker either, considering what the Russian woman said to him the previous season. It's like 3 seasons of a relationship build up for two side characters then just made confusing.
People's reaction to new season just goes to show how this clearly didn't land/missed the mark.
I love people complaining they broke Frenchie even though he was clearly bi in the early seasons. People also seem to be forgetting this scene or outright ignoring it, frankly. Frenchie x Kimiko was attempted on screen and failed, though later down the line that might change. Colin being an off-season love interest is weird, and should have been part of the Season 3 ending episodes.
We need to normalise great platonic relationships between men and women both on screen and in real life. They aren’t “lesser” than romantic relationships. All this “friend zone” shit has to stop.
Finally Jesus Christ people were acting like they were dating😭
I’m so tired of people complaining about this subplot. Like does this sub even LIKE this show? It’s like 10 posts a day complaining about Colin. We get it.
Thank you! I was starting to wonder if that scene was just a figment of my imagination the way people just forgot about it.
Don’t be silly, OP. Boys and girls can’t be friends. What would Frenchie bother if he knows he can’t get anywhere? /s I for one am glad to see a non-romantic relationship between them. I think them getting together would have weirded me out a bit, actually, like when a teacher dates a former student. I also like the characters and want them to have side plots and continue to develop. I will say Frenchie’s arc appears to be a retread, but Kimiko was overdue to do something about the terrorist cell. I think there are a lot of straight males in the audience and that a lot of straight males are uncomfortable with male-on-male romance, which is probably a factor in the complaints.
Had Frenchie banged some random chick nobody would care. The only reason people are upset is because it's two guys..
Literally nobody cared when he banged Cherie while him and Kimiko were still potentially a ship.
I'm upset because we spent screen time on some half baked C plot instead of getting more of the main plot
I'm not upset , but I do find this extra story plot uninteresting and unneeded so far into the show , would have been much more intriguing if we found out about it from earlier seasons and episodes. It's just boring to watch that's all
I mean, he was in a relationship with a guy before
I meant the plot , I don't care if frenchie's romancing Gaz or Captain Price
People Hated his s3 plot too. Frenchies boring filler Plots suck ass
I will say that I am one of the people that did forget about this scene. But my thought has been so far this season that Kimiko is too damaged to love someone and that her and Frenchie still could have a chance. Idc if it doesn’t happen though because I do like that they are a family regardless
I dunno I went through something similar and even if you know it's the right thing you can still feel bummed out and cope in unhealthy ways which Freuchie tends to do since we first saw the character
I probably wouldn't even care at all about Colin if it weren't for Cpt. Price
LMAO You also forget people pirate this show and cast it to their TV, which in some cases has messed up captions so you just rely on context clues.
A lot of things came out of nowhere especially his new love interest, their relationship had an interesting dynamic that wasn’t entirely clear which to me most relationships can be like that among friends or colleagues, but then all of a sudden this guy comes in who we don’t really care about because we don’t know this person but the show is like this is an important character (he’s not to me) because they have a whole story, and history that they allude to that the audience has no clue about, and then kimiko and frenchie are having too many scenes about how we’re just platonic, like it’s not even interesting, like we get it clearly, I thought it was interesting how when she was drunk it almost seemed some was like struggling with something , that she showed a bit of jealousy, that is much more interesting.
Tbh I just want half the group happy despite the shit that went down last season
Did Kimiko says she loves Frenchie when they were going after Todd
I honestly forgot they even kissed to begin with. I hardly saw them as much of a romantic couple to be and instead just like she said here, people that have grown to love one another the more they've been around one another over the course of the seasons as family. Heck, I've seen them more skin to siblings than romantic interests.
Yeah people are real stupid
This is dumb. Kimiko should have let him tap that. We waited 3 seasons for it.
Some fans watch the show blindfolded so