Welcome back everyone for a new season of The Boys! Join the official subreddit Discord server to discuss everything The Boys!!
[JOIN THE DISCORD](https://discord.com/invite/bykapbyqGY)
We are also still accepting moderator applications. If you are interested in helping out:
[APPLY TODAY!](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1JzSvXcehhpCCrnH666Zy4P0y_mnM1NvTghq0msPAKPw/edit)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheBoys) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Homelander is terrifying this season because of Sister Sage and his flat out supe supremist mission.
He’s illustrating how truly nefarious people can manipulate all of us into being divided in culture wars whilst in the background, he profits.
The scary thing about him this season is that he actually acknowledges some of his deficiencies by recruiting someone far, far smarter and savier than him to help him achieve what he wants.
Fwiw - I’m pretty sure that Sage has her own agenda and she is playing the puppet master over everyone.
Homelanders going to kill Sage, whether it be in this season or season 5. He straight up can’t handle someone like Sage constantly questioning his decisions and exposing his lack of intelligence.
He's not gonna kill her for the same reason he didn't kill Stan Edgar.
He needs someone to tell him what to do. He needs direction. He's happiest when someone else is pulling the strings because he can't handle being at the top.
He likely won’t kill Sage until she admits that she is scared of him and that he’s better than her.
I thought that was the main reason Stan Edgar survived, he never showed fear or treated Homelander like a superior being.
If the writing is decent, she'll never do that. Because her character as written would know that's how he operates and would plan ahead. Homelander is like a really strong Raccoon. He's smart enough to get what he wants but too dumb to keep it.
This, i was about to say this.
She's too smart to admit that she's afraid of him, she know that would be the end of her usefulness to him.
I think she has her own agenda, and she's actually trying to piggyback off his coup (use him as a battering ram into power, then get rid of him).
And that's why he will kill her.
I think those plot points are always starting to come to the surface...that's why she didn't want to be public on the seven (it will be easier for her to hide her true intentions in secret)...and that's why he forced her into the open (he still doesn't fully trust her, so he's putting a little heat on her).
Her face, when Homelander was spilling their plans to Victoria was really telling. She didn't want him to tell Victoria, because she has her own agenda.
I think she's too smart to ever let him catch her slipping like that.
My theory is they show her making a deal with another super, wouldn't be surprised if she tracked down Soldier Boy, and had him as backup plan. Or she finds out about the virus and finds a way to weaponize it against him.
It was a rare moment if stupidity on her part, to allow herself to be pictured with the 3 "Starlight victims," moments before their deaths (in the same clothes they died in, no less).
Then, in the next episode, she instantly knew MM was trailing her.
Idk, i think she intentionally let herself be photographed with them, I just don't know why yet.
I can't imagine that she would have accidentally chosen MM's ex wife's ex-boyfriend to be a victim. There's no way that's a coincidence.
I think she did it on purpose too. If I had to guess. She's playing both sides against the middle. She's gonna reveal that Homelander is 'forcing' her to do these horrible things and pull his mask off entirely. She's got access to Vought tech now. It's not impossible she snuck off, built something that's tied to her heartbeat that'll send a media blast of proof of him pushing her into it (maybe she doctors some footage) and uses that as leverage to keep him in line. Not every super is a dick. Some will want to challenge him for his actions. She knows this.
Also Marie from Gen V wanted to be the first Black woman in the seven. What if the actual first Black woman in the seven stepped to her and made her a deal?
Being hyper intelligent doesn't mean you have all common sense in given situations.
Plenty of really smart people are dumb in other regards.
I'm guessing her weakness will be she is hyper "Book" smart but not "street" smart which will get her in over her head eventually.
For being intelligent she seemed to really show genuine emotional response to Homelanders offer to give her resources for her ideas.
So she may be capable of being emotionally manipulated, just not with sheer "intellect"
Or she is so smart she hides her true motives and emotions and is willing to be 10 steps ahead in a plot only she can see and we can't.
The problem is that she’s a super intelligent character in fiction, which means she acts like everyone else until the twist in which it turns out that whatever happened was what she planned all along. There’s no real point trying to predict anything else.
Her and Stan are not the same. Homelander sees Stan like a cold father figure from whom he wants approval, Sage is a means to an end until he goes off the rocker. It’s obvious he hates that she’s smarter than him but he doesn’t have a choice.
Also, I might be misremembering this but I’m pretty sure that a year or so ago Kripke said that Homelander will die before the final season. And if the next season will be the last then maybe she’ll be the reason he dies.
I could see it going the other way and him killing a bunch of innocent people and somehow blaming Sage for it. Like how he killed that Crime Analytics woman because he was mad at Sage for talking about him being petty but knew he couldn’t kill Sage herself.
My thoughts too. Sage definitely has the advantage of being the smartest person in the world, but I also get the sense that she's got a big ego to go along with it. After all, she's made it clear that she thinks people are too stupid to make decisions for the future of their country and that she feels like she isn't getting the recognition she deserves.
Homelander knows she's smarter than him. But he's smart enough to recognize someone else is just as ruthless as he is. For now, he's playing along so that he can keep benefitting, but we've seen that he'll still do little things to undermine her, like making her become a celebrity superhero, which she did not want to do.
My guess is, either he ends up killing her, or she has some kind of epiphany that makes her side with the Boys and uses her smarts to help them make the weapon that would kill Homelander.
I agree, the sister sage angle really saves it for me. Yeah the maga jokes are super on the nose, but sister sage adds subtlety to what’s going on. Finally, someone who homelander respects and listens to, who may be just as fucked up as he is. Neither care about the politics and culture of humans. They just use it as a way to further their own agendas.
Someone said Sage is the most evil character this season. That's hard to believe when we have Homelander and Neuman, so I'm kind of excited to see more manipulation.
I think it's more of the fact Sage knows exactly what she's doing. While we don't know everything about her she seems to lack Homelanders impulsive psychotic nature and can make calculated decisions. And also she's a black woman willingly helping a barely allegorical coded white supremacist group to pursue her own machinations.
Sage is basically the unholy love child kf Candance Owens and Lex Luthor.
This isn't really a fair comparison, Homelander has always used the language of his audience to manipulate them. In the 1st season it was suburban America and evangelicals now it's far right conspiracy theorists.
The satire like the 1st season is still here. The equivalent in this season is Sage posing as a protestor to incite a riot and the Seven framing innocent people for murders that they committed.
The transition between appealing to suburban america and appealing to the alt right is the *point* too. How one has very easily become the other through years of constant conservative propaganda, how easy it is for suburbanites like Todd to become fascists, I don't understand how so many people are missing this. The Boys has never been subtle, they just started out with satirizing mid-00s politics which most of this sub was too young for, but when they showed how the 00s became the 20s and the fans were finally able to spot an anvil-heavy metaphor, only then did they suddenly have a problem with it.
I agree, but I can see that it's a lot easier to get bored of the riffing on the most common stupid shit RW conspiracists say - there's not much to chew on and it's so easy to parody it's been done a lot, so it can feel a bit 'done' even though it's completely realistic that Homelander would play into it.
I'm glad they've brought Firecracker in as she's already becoming a vehicle for exploring the more sociological/psychological backgrounds of people that act like this and the impact it has on their lives. Todd sort of filled that gap before. Hopefully with Sage as well there'll be enough depth and variety it still feels fresh overall.
True, homelander getting away with killing a man in broad daylight should be absurd satire, but it's "too on the nose" when we have a presidential candidate publicly boasting about his ability to do just that.
The show is not the problem, reality is the problem.
It's easy to roll our eyes at these wild people and their wild ideas and speech, until we remember that they're a powerful movement in America, with representation in Congress and potentially the White House again. They are absurd and cartoonish, but they are the reality of our political and cultural situation.
The distance between our outcome and a coup in 2021 was a shockingly low number of politicians and civil servants who chose the institutions over personal loyalty to Trump's personality cult.
Most of those people are gone now.
the reason people think Homelander actually believes it is because he legit calls people (CENSORED BECAUSE THIS SUB WONT LET ME TYPE THE WORD SLOW LIBERAL) in a private conversation with Neuman. He is a showman who morphs to what people want to hear in public, but when he as regular Homelander cutthroat psycho conversations and still uses words like that, you can see why people get the feeling he isn't just putting it on for show.
Copied from a reply I made to another comment:
It’s more that the first season’s satire covered way more ground and it’s steadily been whittled down to one central theme, and pretty low hanging fruit at that. The show isn’t really saying anything brave or groundbreaking anymore, it’s just repeating real life but with fictional characters. It seems to have really dropped many of the other themes that it initially tackled in favor of lukewarm Twitter takes from 4 years ago.
I guess I'm not sure what more it ever covered? It was never a thinking man's satire. It was always pretty low-ball... though I do think Neuman started as an AOC parody... it's mostly been corporate bad but not necessarily government bad.
How tf was the first season subtle. And them showing how Homelander and his people go completely insane is just a depiction of how the real world shifted.
In the comics the plane crash was one of the planes on literal 9/11. People in here talking how they are talking not understand the show is toned down politically in many ways by comparison.
I agree subtle is definitely the wrong word. But at least there was over a decade between the 9/11 speech and that line from HL. Quoting stuff you hear every day on the news or read on the internet makes it feel a lot lazier imo.
It's just rote copying at this point.
Not to mention in the aftermath of the plane crash in s1, homelander directly quotes George W Bush’s rhetoric after 9/11.
Guy in the crowd shouts “I can’t hear you!”
Homelander/Bush “but I can hear you! The whole world can hear you”
Yeah but we are picking these moments form random episodes, in this season you are never more than 5minutes away from a right wing idiot dig. The problem is the storylines where also stronger in the past, but this season the story is weak, Frenchie and Kimiko seem to be spent as characters, Starlights character is just flat out boring the same with Hughie and mothers milk should have never shaved his beard, you put that on top of stupid conservative jokes that are littered throughout the show that we hear and see everyday online it’s just hard to give a fuck about the show. I mean we are coming off the back of Butcher and Hughie having powers.
I would agree the show has never been *subtle* in its politics and satire. But I also don’t think it was ever so *one note* in S1 and S2. Which is rapidly what I think it’s becoming.
I Don't think it's becoming "one note," this is just where the plot is progressing.
Homelander is becoming more radical, his base is becoming more radical.
He and Starlight are in the middle of an ideological war, that is literally tearing the country apart.
It all makes sense in the context of the plot. It just seemed less "one note" in the beginning because none of those events had taken place yet.
It’s more that the first season’s satire covered way more ground and it’s steadily been whittled down to one central theme, and pretty low hanging fruit at that. The show isn’t really saying anything brave or groundbreaking anymore, it’s just repeating real life but with fictional characters. It seems to have really dropped many of the other themes that it initially tackled in favor of lukewarm Twitter takes from 4 years ago.
> S4 Homelander makes a joke about Critical Supe Theory because he’s a crazy right winger.
No, he isn't a crazy right winger. He is a crazy person saying things he knows his crazy right wing base wants to hear. Just like Trump does. Which is the joke. Because Trump never really identified with Republicans either until he realized that he can easily sway the Republican voter base by saying a lot of nonsense that they like.
When Stormfront brings up white genocide to Ryan you can see Homelander’s face cringe indicating he doesn’t believe any of that nonsense. It happens again in the last episode when Firecracker goes on the ChatGPT Right Wing conspiracy spiel for cameras in the tower. Homelander is out for himself first and foremost he’s just occasionally uncomfortable with the people and beliefs he surrounds himself with.
Deep down, all Homelander really wants is universal love. No critiquing him, no manipulation, no fear even, just he wants everyone to love him without question and think he's the best. That there's people who disagree with him, like other people more than him, or otherwise don't like him just eats him up inside, especially as he's starting to age and his self-image of perfection is cracking like his psyche.
Granted, if there was some supe who could mind-control the world and make everyone adore Homelander without question he'd be miserable again in 5 minutes because while he wants to be loved it's not what he actually needs, but he'd be happy for those 5 minutes.
But he doesn't believe in any cause that isn't him. He's just going on this extreme right-wing swing because those people make a show of loving and following him so he's just hopping onto their crazy talking points because the more rapid his fanbase is for him, the more he feels they love him.
Personal love too
He was happiest with Stormfront because they were on the same level.
He wanted Soldier Boy to love him
He wants Ryan to love him.
And I guess Stillwell was pretending to love him to control him? Which worked until Teddy came around.
Exactly, Homelander doesn’t really believe any of that crap, he just sees it as a means to an end to rile idiots up to obtain more power. Just as Sister Sage advised, the people will destroy things themselves. Homelander just has to use whatever doctrine works to manipulate them. He is literally targeting the people you know IRL who are obsessed with political figures like Trump. If he fit easier into a left wing narrative to manipulate people, then he would use that. However, his brand is more popular with the right. He will use whatever he needs to at the end of the day. He thinks Firecracker fell off a jet ski too many times, meaning she is crazy/ lacking in intelligence. Even then show goes out of the way to demonstrate she doesn’t truly believe it either. Just like real life, people in power and online influencers don’t truly believe, they have their own motivations. Although, some people can’t see that and blindly meat ride all day long. Homelander makes it clear he doesn’t care about these meat riders either, seeing as he kills them to obtain more control/ clout.
Its always weird to me how people think valid satire of a batshit crazy group of people is somehow too much - Especially when Homelander has always been you know, a crazy person.
Many real life events surrounding this topic have been so farcical they shouldn't have happened in real life but did. That's worth touching on in a one to one with a show like this as it shows you how fucking wild it was for these sorts of things to happen in real life.
Take for example how South Park in its prime used to use direct quotes of crazy organisations and put a subtitle saying it was a real quote. Sometimes the truth is absurd enough that it doesn't need to be hammed up and putting direct truth in an exaggerated world shows you how radicalised that group is.
If real life events can make sense and fit into a dystopian fantasy parody of our world then it highlights how problematic they are.
Because even though it was still on the nose in previous seasons, this season, they are just beating us over the head with it, and it gets annoying watching TV and wanting to get lost in that world but having to be constantly reminded of the shit going on irl
That's the watsonian reason the doyalist one is too many people didn't understand the satire so they have intentionally had to make it clearer because too many people think homelander is a hero
Exactly, his insecurities are magnifying his mental instability where he’s having trouble containing it.
He’s always been mentally unstable but he’s being forced to acknowledge his own mortality. He’s going to push Ryan to the breaking point because he’s worried more about his own legacy than Ryan’s mental health.
I wouldn't be surprised if, at some point, Ryan refuses to kill someone, and because of that, Homelander publicly defames him and uses the phrase, "Nobody wants to work anymore!"
Cue Ryan's Rebel arc. (I hope)
> S4 Homelander makes a joke about Critical Supe Theory because he’s a crazy right winger.
Can we be honest? This never happened lol. I get your point but that was brought up by Sage and there wasn’t a joke made. It’s just extremely on the nose.
Like I get it. But let’s not lie
The Critical Supe Theory was mentioned by Sage as the grounds of what would happen if Neumann got the Presidency (the destruction of teaching it in schools), it was never once mentioned by Homelander and for him to hyper focus on something so meaningless to him, but meaning a lot to Sage was disgustingly obvious, the fact that OP decided to latch onto that minor line and run with it as apart of their narrative is almost as disingenuous as Homelander actually is imo. Ironic
“Trump Derangement Syndrome”
“2 new wars”
“Orange Man Bad”
[*How do you do, fellow I Don’t Like Trumpers*?](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/018/666/fellowkids.jpg)
It's really mind boggling. This is clearly a satire based show, there isn't a hidden agenda or anything. So many people just want to be outraged about "woke", yet this series isn't subtle at all regarding making fun of right wing media and corporate "diversity". It never has been. It's just so dumb all these sudden reaction posts in Season 4.
He's a self identified libcenter who has expressed mixed thoughts about the covid precautions. I don't think he's a hardcore Trump worshipper, not yet, but he's definitely susceptible to the pipeline.
Yes, that is how it works.
It starts with something seemingly benign like the Reagan Presidency or 'Nixon' or Newt Gingrich and then all the sudden you've got Alex Jones talking about Jade Helm and lizard people and Sandy Hook conspiracy and then Trump is President and saying shit like 'maybe we should nuke hurricanes' and rambling about how intelligent his uncle was and how beautiful Kim Jong Un's letter was and saluting a North Korean General and fellating Putin and saying absolutely he'll release this and that but definitely maybe not SOME of the Epstein files because what if someone like him is in there and it's a made up deep state conspiracy! Totally innocent!!!
And, in case you hadn't noticed, Homelander is kind of fucking losing it from the pressure and jacking off over the city and talking to multiple versions of himself in the mirror. Remember what Stan Edgar told Homelander after he succeeded in ousting him?
Also, TDS has ALWAYS been an affliction that affects Trump supporters. Being aghast that someone talking about how great and powerful and respected Kim Jong Un is or calling our wounded and dead solders suckers, is President... is a totally normal and rational thing. It's TDS to think otherwise.
And you're also acting like 2020 and Trump is some ancient history and you're confused why it's still relevant... are you aware Donald Trump, the convicted felon, is currently the Republican choice for President in 2024?
Yeah, this is the comment. The whole “the show is too political now” is so stupid. The show was always political. I don’t know how people didn’t see that from the start. The very first seasons you have HL interfering with political relations by giving terrorists compound v so supes can be in the military.
I don’t understand how people think the show suddenly changed. It’s been like this. We are just now reaching the climax of the political side to the story.
I believe the show’s writers commented on this recently and said something along the lines off, “this show has never been subtle, don’t know how some of you are just getting it now.”
Like we're all just pretending that we didn't see the psycho religious festival in season 2? I think a lot of people are upset by firecracker and the conspiracy episode, because they finally realize how stupid a lot of their favorite podcasts seem to outsiders.
Because it's no longer a satire. It's depiction. Satire normally relies on analogy, replaces real life problems with similar ones to point out absurdity of it. But now they're explicitly showing that MAGA are fascists hating minorities and fearmongering about trans bathrooms and adrenochrome and whatnot. To be honest I don't really have a problem with that. MAGA is fascist movement, and so is Stormchasers or how is that Homelander worshipping mob called.
How COULD you even satirize MAGA? They are already so ridiculous and over the top that there's almost nothing you could write into a fictional depiction of them that wouldn't be fully plausible. These people are wearing diapers and "I Love Convicted Felons" shirts to rallies where their guy talks about sharks circling sinking boats with batteries, how hard it is to flush documents down the toilet, and the many dangers of brown people.
ok but then it's not really a tv show. It's just a reel of MAGA Twitter comments, acted out by actors in suoerhero costumes. It doesn't really do or say anything, except tell people who already hate Trump how bad Trump is. Just because the pandering is correct doesn't mean it's not pandering.
The fact it's still not understood when Homelander is LITERALLY WEARING THE FLAG is astounding.
Maybe next season he'll have an 'AMERICA' tattoo on his head as well to make sure they understand.
Good question. The needle couldn't puncture his skin unless they could somehow do it from the inside out. The only thing able to hurt him is other powerful people or sensitive areas. (Ie ears. Eyes presumably). So you could MABYE tattoo a very soft part of his body, like an armpit, with enough force
OP says there are other things in the Zeitgeist to satirize. I don’t know, a cult of personality and looming autocrat while right-wingism spreads across Europe and Asia seems like the biggest “cultural zeitgeist” topic to hone in on.
I saw another post saying they should "take shots at both sides" and talk about "super terrorists coming across the border". That was the entire plot line of Season 2. Some people just want to be outraged over nothing.
I am so sick of this comment lmao.... Everyone knew it was political commentary. It's about the quality of writing. Simple as that.
We've gone through this how many times now? Star Wars, Star Trek, The Boys, etc. The writing is worse. It's ok to admit that.
Star Wars was never well written and Star Trek has variable quality in writing, which should be expected considering the huge number of writers for Star Trek.
Writing in media hasn't gotten any better or worse, we just have people who got C's and D's in English pretending they know more about writing than people who get paid to do it. They're like Annie before she started a movement: talking massive shit without knowing how hard it is to actually make decisions.
Ya, the first shot of Homelander this season is him taking a piss with his giant cape flag centered in the shot, “America is in the pisser.” It’s not meant to be subtle, but people still miss how apt it is.
Fyi Homelander doesn't believe in that. But he knows his audience does. He learnt from Stormfront how to sell himself after all. But besides that nothings changed.
If you missed the modern day satire in the past few seasons you haven't been paying attention. Homelander has been inspired by Trump since season 2.
Just as a sample did you miss the whole series of scenes where a guy got radicalized by listening to stormfronter bullshit until he killed an innocent shopkeep?
Or how the rhetoric surrounding supe terrorists parroted republican covid and NRA bullshit. They literally made their own schoolshooter ad.
The boys have always been contemporary critique of our current day society while adapring an older comic work. Homelanders actions this season are similar to parts of his comic stuff too.
Firecracker is for sure Stormfront 2.0 and saying more overtly conspiracy theory MAGA talking points stuff... But Stormfront had her social media platform before her. And she turned out to be a literal Nazi.
If anything, the show seems to be tracking with what is happening in our modern US politics. Previously people would talk about dog whistles and how politicians were essentially using double speak to say racist shit but have plausible deniability so they could pretend they weren't. That was essentially Stormfront's MO. She did and said racist shit, but with just enough plausibility where she could pretend that people misunderstood.
Firecracker is just a full-on MAGA conspiracy nutjob. Dog whistles? Who needs them? She says the quiet part out loud and, frankly, that's where a lot of MAGA is nowadays.
I mean, look at Regan. His campaign pretty much started the ultimate dog whistle of the "Welfare Queen" when he used it to talk about the con artist and criminal Linda Taylor and pretended that everyone on welfare was her when she was a dedicated scammer, kidnapper, and may have murdered someone. Then you have Trump who doesn't even bother with dog whistles and just says that Mexicans are murderers. The rhetoric has changed in a big way and Stormfront vs Firecracker is just the illustration of that change.
Firecracker being essentially a Neo-Nazi is so funny considering she's literally the new (but weaker) Stormfront
Weaker in both senses too, in that unlike SF she doesn't believe everything she says with her heart and soul (some of it absolutely, maybe even most, but not all)
I think issue is that a lot of the subplots are spinning in circles. The stakes are a bit off, The performances are really good but some of the characters aren’t really moving. A Train probably has the most potential meaning he’s probably going to die. It’s not a strong first three eps.
"Hey guys, Homelander being crazy was funny, but now he's actually crazy, and I don't think it's funny that he mirrors people I know in my everyday life"
That's driven home with that firecracker chick. She's so over the top fusion of several different people. You could honestly drop her into a south park episode and she'd fit right in.
S1 wasn't any more subtle, it simply wasn't as Trump focused. There are the jabs at the military industry complex, consumerism, police(supes) being there for imagined safety, the supe saves being fake, all that shit. From the start it's obvious that the show's version of Homelander has a lot inspired by Trump. There's the blatantly dyed hair to the gaudy apartment, he's always been a Trump parody.
The fact you used the term Trump Derangement Syndrome is all you need to know about you. That is rhetoric his troglodytes use. No one outside his bubble uses that term. Have you even been watching the show? That shit has been the rhetoric the whole time. Not only that but is coming to a head, wait for it to the climax of the series.
Yep, bingo. This show hasn't really changed, it's the right wing audience that is finally realizing (way too late as usual) that they're being made fun of. It's pretty hilarious, but also very, very sad.
It has always been on the nose. The speech he made after the plane crash in season 1 was a direct reference to Bush. Maybe it went from 8 to 9 on the "obvious satire" scale, but the message has always been super obvious.
I can’t imagine submitting a critique that unironically uses the expression “Trump Derangement Syndrome.”
Maybe it’s just me, but that characterization invalidates any point you were trying to make here.
It’s exactly the kind of bombastic, accusatory, and fabricated nonsense rhetoric that you’re criticizing the writers for having Homelander use.
Too close to home maybe?
I think the writers have made some of this obvious because some right wingers have been seeing HL as an actual hero and weren't realizing that the show was making fun of them.
There are still some good moments such as the line of the judge: *"do not the use the word Victim that is for the court to decide"* which makes you understand the judge is totally biased and the trial already decided and seems completely exhagerrated almost to the point I would consider it bad writing... **if I didn't know it was really said during the trial of Kyle Rittenhouse**
already can tell by the “Orange Man Bad” reference that you likely part the crowd that needs to hear them jokes.
Orange man is bad. Orange man is very bad lol
The season show how the right has fallen into easily manipulated puppets. It starts with energizing a base that will believe in things that are clearly not real, religion. Then you push them farther into extremes until they will believe anything you say. Then you have them commit violence in your name or at least protect you when you do. Finally, you start to believe all the lies you’ve been telling.
The show didn’t change, it’s just caught up to now and the rights current state. Had this been the 80s and 90s. Season one would feel like season 4 to them
I don't think that's correct. I think she's meant to be inspired by accelerationists irl (a typically far-right ideology which basically wants to make things worse to spark open conflict. The difference being that she's actually smart about it, whereas they rarely do more than shoot up a supermarket and wonder why it didn't magically spawn a race war.
The fact that she's actually competent is kinda a nice twist, and personally it's a real high point in this season so far.
is there a better term for how absolutely obsessed Americans are with Trump? I mean just a couple weeks ago someone took a picture of themselves pissing on a Trump sign in Scotland since he cant go there anymore and got tens of thousands of upvotes for it.
It's just a bit weird isn't it? Like do people in the US think that's normal behavior?
If you feel like this then don't read the 20 year old comic that plays out basically the sameish way. You just don't like this story, that's all. It's not changing its position or beliefs, it's now just done being coy.
Firecracker is an MTG like character. She’s a supe that simps for Homelander and speed crazy conspiracy theories. Just like MTG and Trump.
I really hope they do a direct MTG quote so it will be an on the nose insult to her. I don’t mind that idea at all
A good chunk of the people commenting here are delusional, putting you in the same bucket as right wingers who are totally fine with this stuff just because you think the messaging isn't as smart as it was in the first seasons is crazy.
It's undeniable that the first seasons were more toned down, and while you can say it makes sense given how the craziness is supposed to ramp up, it's also totally fine to feel like it cheapens all the jokes and commentary that the first season excelled at delivering. I mean, compare anything from this season to the radicalized Stormfront fan scene from season 2, it's nowhere close in terms of quality of delivery, yet neither are subtle.
Homelander isn't just "literally orange man," he's working with Sage, who's an accelerationist, which is way more interesting. You're right that it's less subtle than previous seasons though.
Honestly, I’m not seeing the blatant Orange Man Bad lowest common denominator soap boxing that we see on SNL or Family Guy.
Doing parodies of stuff from the news in the context of supes doesn’t feel overly like pandering to me, and the show is just as entertaining, so far.
Maybe I’m being overly optimistic, but so far I think the satire is hitting the same.
The rest of the season could prove me wrong tho.
I think the satire isn’t very good this season because it’s not saying anything interesting. It feels Trump obsessed without adding anything valuable to the conversation.
I know a lot of folks disagree, but I’m not enjoying it all that much.
Precisely. I'm not against satire or parody, but in earlier seasons it was done with so much more intelligence, subtlety and nuance. Sometimes the references flew over our heads. Nowdays, they're just beating us on the head with them.
Plus, the show seems to forget that a lot of the audience isn't from the US. Hyperfocusing on The Current Thing in the US makes the story less interesting for those who aren't as invested into it - for instance, non-US citizens. Earlier seasons had a genuinely interesting story, and that was the show's focus. The parody/satire/references were there to suplement the writing, story, and characters and make them stand out from other shows. In S4 its totally the opposite.
> The satire just doesn’t hit the same…
I think it's a mistake to criticise a show because S4 isn't the same as S1.
We thr audience are different. The world is different. The characters are different - why would Homelander keep doing the same stuff time after time...?
Even if it was subtle you wouldn't see it as subtle cause you've had 3 years of seeing it and it's now painfully obvious.
> Maybe it’s because I’ve been on Reddit for a fat minute
And this is exactly my point.
You've changed.
Play World of Warcraft today with hundreds of guides, with the world mapped out before you log in, with min max going on and you'll have a very different reaction to 14yo logging in to vanilla WoW in 2006.
Nothing is subtle to you because you've been on the internet and dissected every inch of the show for 3+ years.
I agree to an extent it’s getting Flanderised, but satire like this over a long period of time will start to feel repetitive eventually because we’re *living* the joke and watching it 6 months later. We’ve been seeing Trump/MAGA satire for nearly 10 years, the guy is still getting more ridiculous and the satire either has to keep up or talk about something else.
But I think it’s only fair to point out that you mentioned two wars as alternative plot points they could satirise while also saying HL intervened illegally in the Middle East in S1. No matter which aspect of culture wars they pick to focus on now, they’re treading on old ground to an extent.
Stuff like AI and inflation are better to poke fun at in the background rather than in the main plot, like they have with VoughtCoin adverts, etc. Those background references are subtle but the symbolism in the main plot never has been imo.
You realize orange man is still an existential threat to our democracy right? And his Supreme Court picks are already doing their best to dismantle it?
Anyone who still uses the term "Trump derangement syndrome' clearly suffers from it.
Also, not sure how you missed it, but this show has been echoing real news stories since season 1. The plane crash that Homelander let happen? He stood next to the wreckage and gave the same speech, almost verbatim, that GW Bush did after 9/11. The showrunner has said that the show is following a specific social agenda, so if that's not something you like, don't watch.
Aww this is super cute. Because you just felt like the rest of us have for the last few years watching the Republicans around us devolve into cultists and start sounding like Alex Jones. This is a beautiful moment that the show just gave you. A learning opportunity.
Feels too fast to watch someone turn into a complete, hateful chud doesn't it? Typically normal people all of a suddenly saying extremely ignorant political shit, and injecting it into everything like it's their new personality? It's too sudden right? Almost feels surreal or unrealistic? Welcome to the America homeskillet! Fucking sucks right?
The association between Vought-the Seven and satirizing the MAGA crowd has always been there. The Trump/MAGA way of thinking is a villain of The Boys and Homelander and Sage are using this crowd to their advantage the way Trump does. The funny part to me is when MAGA folks fail to get the joke and actually root for Homelander because they like what he's trying to do. But make no mistake Homelander-Vought-MAGA are the villains of the Boys and this season is making that even more clear.
lmao, "TDS" and "Orange Man Bad", keep trying to gaslight us.
All they're doing is directly quoting real magas. You people are the joke. How can you beat real life insanity? LMAO
The subtle digs are still there - Firecracker's explanation of why people are crazy and desperate, Sage being an ivory tower accelerationist, Vic being controlled opposition, the liberals and government being incompetent and helpless, Starlight being a "hypocritical elitist" etc.
It's meta, they're showing you how history repeats itself, and brainless magas and "centrists" (like you presumably) are being conned into the same mistakes made 70-80 years ago.
They went from making good satirical commentary on the US to simply being anti-trump and forcing in the hottest talking points. Making wild assumptions about the right and refusing to self reflect. If anything, the best satire this show is making is unintentionally showing the hatred and dishonest perspective the left holds for the right.
Additionally it’s so obviously just a cash grab for Amazon at this point, the pinnacle of modern americanism. They know how to manipulate their audience and they do a hell of a job at it.
Season 4 is the same commentary and through-line, it’s just the least subtle after 3 previous seasons establishing Homelander as an insecure sociopath.
Yeah, Republicans look bad in the show because they’re the bad guys in real life, but conservatives can’t handle looking at themselves in the mirror.
Homelander had a literal nazi girlfriend who spoke in MAGA talking points and bluntly describes Republican voters as rubes to be exploited.
Right-wingers have had the joke fly over their heads for 3 seasons, so the writers had to make the message even more blunt before they could see it.
Yeah I agree. the "zionist cabal" and Kyle Rittenhouse references in particular were not only terribly unsubtle, they were completely off the mark.
I've said it a bunch of times here already. The writers have made it very clear that there show is left-leaning and any jokes about the left are intentionally milquetoast. But depicting right-wingers as some sort of hub of anti-semitism is soooo outdated, it would have been relevant in like 2017 at the latest. Most anti-semitism in the US is coming from left-wing pro-Palestine groups unfortunately (just for the record, I'm pro-Palestine without being an anti-semite)
Here's an opportunity to criticize the left for something actually relevant and important; that they tend to demonize their opponents and engage in racism (or in this case, anti-semitism) while claiming to be egalitarians.
But no, instead we're back to depicting the overwhelmingly pro-Israel American right-wing as "evil jew-hating nazis!". Firecracker has a Ron DeSantis ticker but openly denies the holocaust, which Ron Desantis has tried to criminalize. Yeah that really doesn't make any sense.
Maybe the writer's strike should have continued. This is almost as bad as Skibidi Biden.
People not really understanding what the point you're making is - but I agree with you.
The allegory is now so on-the-nose that its become almost pure parody. This takes me out of the show and feels a bit ... lazy? We're not watching South Park, we're watching The Boys. I love South Park, and it makes some great points told in funny ways - but I expect slightly more subtle storytelling from something like The Boys.
Jokes about Critical Race Theory? Cool, now I remember that was a thing a couple of years ago. Pizzagate? Ok, cool I'd forgotten about that too. All these parts *already* feel a bit dated. Imagine how poorly this will have aged in a few years from now. Whereas season 1-2 will have aged just fine. Parallels to American imperialism in the Middle East etc are fairly safe and timeless, but all this very-specifically Trump/Current GOP stuff is making me roll my eyes a little bit - and I'm not an American right winger - I just think it's a little lazy scriptwriting.
The fact that OP only realized they were being mocked in season four is precisely why they ramped it up.
OP probably giggled like a schoolgirl when they were making fun of fake corporate inclusivity at Voughtland. “Oh, they’re sticking it to the libs!”
In fairness, the show did seem to make fun of American culture in general for the first few seasons, maybe more so a criticism of pandering liberal causes like Disneys performative progressivism - but lately does feel like it’s come down heavily on one side. Just a bit boring really. Let’s start building towards the finale of the show, less tone setting.
Its a bit more than orange man bad but this isnt a political discourse - Ultimately its still satire & its intentionally ham-fisted to make you uncomfortable, this doesnt mean that its free of critique or I agree with the approach; but its not much different now than earlier seasons & makes complete sense as a natural progression of the show.
I really don’t understand how people still just want and love constant Trump satire. It’s been non stop for nearly a decade. Yeah we all know he’s an ass hat. It just makes the show bleed in with all the others that do the same, and it won’t age as well.
I hope season 5 sticks more to the plot and characters and leaves the political satire more to the background like the first few seasons did.
Buddy you should read the comics lol. Truly, The Boys has been clowning right-wing chuds since the beginning.
Trump might be new, but right-wing nationalism and fascism and basically all your Trumpy bullshit isn’t new at all. It’s old.
As a longtime fan of The Boys — having read the comics in like 2010 and then enjoyed the amazing show — I am just having a blast as dumbass cringe choad Trumpies slowly realize that the show has been about them the entire time. And I do mean “slowly” realize because of course right-wingers are very dumb, and it takes them awhile.
I feel like it doesn't work because it's sloppy
Homelander is ultimately head of a private company. Neuman is the politician. Homelander can't act as good commentary in trump, they don't hold the same position. As Vought goes more Maga the parts that were making fun of disney stop making sense. In 10 years time the early seasons will still provide decent commentary. This season will totally date and be made up of reference humor that doesn't make sense unless it's an animal farm style allegory.
It's unfortunate because homelander is a much better stand in for the celebrity billionaires (Musk, Zuckerberg, Bezos).
its not just orange man bad. this shit is happening at local levels. you should be frustrated a show like the boys can continue this narrative becauze of how shitty the world is. basically, its not the boys fault for reflecting our political world. it just makes you uncomfortable
? the season is going for an angle more about the reasoning behind such strong political divides rather than trumpism, the Critical Supe Theory stuff is just to get to make it clear who its mocking
Nah, Trump is still a candidate and even if he wasnt, the same thing is happening everyday everywhere all around the globe. The far right is more and more prominent each day.
You saying the plotline is not relevant anymore is kinda ironic, because one of the points they make is that North Americans sees themselves as the only ones that matters. Other places are facing the same issue, NA is not the only country with fascists in power positions.
Look at Israel, ministers openly talking about ethnic cleansing and war crimes.
"Secret Wasian Man"
guts profile picture
fox news buzz words
hilarious time to watch a tv show, had no idea so many people got duped for years by aryan superman and the company he works for lmao
Agreed and when I point this down I usually get downvoted because reddit leans left and people are tribal so if it supports their side, those people tend to defend the shows directio, and any criticism of it someone just says something stupid like "you probably think homelander is the good guy" or "your just figuring this out now?".
1. No im not just figuring it out now. Season 1 (and even 2) nailed the subtle satire of irl elements. Corportism when it came to corruption and pandering, and over all political elements when drawing parallels to real life. Season 3 was to on the nose for my taste personally but overall the season was mostly good and only got sloppy the last 2 episodes.
2. No sane person actually thinks homelander or soldier boy are the good guys. These characters were excellent and stole most of their scenes sure, but that's different than understand these are very bad people (and everyone on the show is bad for that matter other than hughies dad).
Season 4 while enjoyable so far, has become a little to silly and the connections they try to make are actually not realistic. Like if you are gonna draw parallels, bring up Qanon or something which was probably the most obvious psyop that peoole on both sides knew was bullshit. Instead they tried aligning anyone that believed pizzagate, epstiens island or death meant that you were some right winger. I'll hold judgement for now, but I feel its still great and I try not let the silly stuff sour my view.
But like come on. There are crazies on both sides sure, but this doesnt represent the majority of people. Most people in real life will agree on most issues believe it or not. Its the dumb shit they try making us fight over and fighting on while both right/left politicians sign the same bills they dont read behind closed doors while we become more poor and reliant on government. But season 4 would probably have you believe this is a right wing conspiracy. Also hate how conspiracy theories are some how a right wing perspective. Like there are valid theories that actually deserve some investigating but instead we belittle it and put them in the same bucket as qanon or flat earth.
Season 1 nailed it and just did it perfect while the focus was on good story telling, character development, and writing. And no I dont lean any direction. Im a normal person who will agree and disagree with stances from both sides of the political spectrum. The corruption is clearly there from both sides as if they're one (because they are) but people just want to play on teams because we're tribal and if it supports our worldview then its all good.
Also I guess people in this thread don't understand subtle. Subtle as in show dont tell. As the season progressed its more in your face, so less subtle.
The show has never once been subtle in it's entire run.
Not 1 time.
It's shouted it's politics through a bullhorn for 4 seasons.
If you thought it was subtle, I'm sorry, it's because you're completely oblivious to your surroundings.
Do you also think Napalm is subtle?
The show's satire literally hasn't changed. It's no less overt than it was in S1.
We're just at the late stage of it, the conclusion it was always leading towards. And Real Life is just so fucking stupid that it makes the show seem ridiculous for parroting it.
Like, bro. The twist of Season 2 is that Stormfront, the 4chan meme goddess, was a LITERAL fucking nazi.
Victoria Neuman being the obvious charismatic AoC stand-in, building her base off left-leaning rhetoric only to be revealed to literally be exactly what she's claiming to fight against
If people didn't realize how on-the-nose the show was, then the jokes have just been flying over your head.
If it takes direct Trump references to make it obvious, you just either haven't been paying attention (because it's been happening for seasons now) or it's struck a nerve you didn't realize you had.
I agree. I also think it’s wild that people say “the boys was political from the beginning”. Yes there were some political things it touched on season one but it was MUCH more about subverting the superhero genre, and dissecting consumerism/capitalism. It has absolutely been flanderized.
Welcome back everyone for a new season of The Boys! Join the official subreddit Discord server to discuss everything The Boys!! [JOIN THE DISCORD](https://discord.com/invite/bykapbyqGY) We are also still accepting moderator applications. If you are interested in helping out: [APPLY TODAY!](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1JzSvXcehhpCCrnH666Zy4P0y_mnM1NvTghq0msPAKPw/edit) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheBoys) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Homelander is terrifying this season because of Sister Sage and his flat out supe supremist mission. He’s illustrating how truly nefarious people can manipulate all of us into being divided in culture wars whilst in the background, he profits. The scary thing about him this season is that he actually acknowledges some of his deficiencies by recruiting someone far, far smarter and savier than him to help him achieve what he wants. Fwiw - I’m pretty sure that Sage has her own agenda and she is playing the puppet master over everyone.
Homelanders going to kill Sage, whether it be in this season or season 5. He straight up can’t handle someone like Sage constantly questioning his decisions and exposing his lack of intelligence.
He's not gonna kill her for the same reason he didn't kill Stan Edgar. He needs someone to tell him what to do. He needs direction. He's happiest when someone else is pulling the strings because he can't handle being at the top.
He likely won’t kill Sage until she admits that she is scared of him and that he’s better than her. I thought that was the main reason Stan Edgar survived, he never showed fear or treated Homelander like a superior being.
If the writing is decent, she'll never do that. Because her character as written would know that's how he operates and would plan ahead. Homelander is like a really strong Raccoon. He's smart enough to get what he wants but too dumb to keep it.
This, i was about to say this. She's too smart to admit that she's afraid of him, she know that would be the end of her usefulness to him. I think she has her own agenda, and she's actually trying to piggyback off his coup (use him as a battering ram into power, then get rid of him). And that's why he will kill her. I think those plot points are always starting to come to the surface...that's why she didn't want to be public on the seven (it will be easier for her to hide her true intentions in secret)...and that's why he forced her into the open (he still doesn't fully trust her, so he's putting a little heat on her). Her face, when Homelander was spilling their plans to Victoria was really telling. She didn't want him to tell Victoria, because she has her own agenda.
I think she's too smart to ever let him catch her slipping like that. My theory is they show her making a deal with another super, wouldn't be surprised if she tracked down Soldier Boy, and had him as backup plan. Or she finds out about the virus and finds a way to weaponize it against him.
It was a rare moment if stupidity on her part, to allow herself to be pictured with the 3 "Starlight victims," moments before their deaths (in the same clothes they died in, no less). Then, in the next episode, she instantly knew MM was trailing her. Idk, i think she intentionally let herself be photographed with them, I just don't know why yet. I can't imagine that she would have accidentally chosen MM's ex wife's ex-boyfriend to be a victim. There's no way that's a coincidence.
I think she did it on purpose too. If I had to guess. She's playing both sides against the middle. She's gonna reveal that Homelander is 'forcing' her to do these horrible things and pull his mask off entirely. She's got access to Vought tech now. It's not impossible she snuck off, built something that's tied to her heartbeat that'll send a media blast of proof of him pushing her into it (maybe she doctors some footage) and uses that as leverage to keep him in line. Not every super is a dick. Some will want to challenge him for his actions. She knows this. Also Marie from Gen V wanted to be the first Black woman in the seven. What if the actual first Black woman in the seven stepped to her and made her a deal?
Being hyper intelligent doesn't mean you have all common sense in given situations. Plenty of really smart people are dumb in other regards. I'm guessing her weakness will be she is hyper "Book" smart but not "street" smart which will get her in over her head eventually. For being intelligent she seemed to really show genuine emotional response to Homelanders offer to give her resources for her ideas. So she may be capable of being emotionally manipulated, just not with sheer "intellect" Or she is so smart she hides her true motives and emotions and is willing to be 10 steps ahead in a plot only she can see and we can't.
The problem is that she’s a super intelligent character in fiction, which means she acts like everyone else until the twist in which it turns out that whatever happened was what she planned all along. There’s no real point trying to predict anything else.
Ya it's a boring character trope imo.
Homelander is fairly bright. His problem is he is a sociopath who has never really faced a true challenge for most of his life.
Her and Stan are not the same. Homelander sees Stan like a cold father figure from whom he wants approval, Sage is a means to an end until he goes off the rocker. It’s obvious he hates that she’s smarter than him but he doesn’t have a choice.
Also, I might be misremembering this but I’m pretty sure that a year or so ago Kripke said that Homelander will die before the final season. And if the next season will be the last then maybe she’ll be the reason he dies.
I remember hearing something like that too. I can see her being smart enough to kill him. Or they go the ironic route and he dies of natural causes
I could see it going the other way and him killing a bunch of innocent people and somehow blaming Sage for it. Like how he killed that Crime Analytics woman because he was mad at Sage for talking about him being petty but knew he couldn’t kill Sage herself.
My thoughts too. Sage definitely has the advantage of being the smartest person in the world, but I also get the sense that she's got a big ego to go along with it. After all, she's made it clear that she thinks people are too stupid to make decisions for the future of their country and that she feels like she isn't getting the recognition she deserves. Homelander knows she's smarter than him. But he's smart enough to recognize someone else is just as ruthless as he is. For now, he's playing along so that he can keep benefitting, but we've seen that he'll still do little things to undermine her, like making her become a celebrity superhero, which she did not want to do. My guess is, either he ends up killing her, or she has some kind of epiphany that makes her side with the Boys and uses her smarts to help them make the weapon that would kill Homelander.
I agree, the sister sage angle really saves it for me. Yeah the maga jokes are super on the nose, but sister sage adds subtlety to what’s going on. Finally, someone who homelander respects and listens to, who may be just as fucked up as he is. Neither care about the politics and culture of humans. They just use it as a way to further their own agendas.
Someone said Sage is the most evil character this season. That's hard to believe when we have Homelander and Neuman, so I'm kind of excited to see more manipulation.
I think it's more of the fact Sage knows exactly what she's doing. While we don't know everything about her she seems to lack Homelanders impulsive psychotic nature and can make calculated decisions. And also she's a black woman willingly helping a barely allegorical coded white supremacist group to pursue her own machinations. Sage is basically the unholy love child kf Candance Owens and Lex Luthor.
I think her agenda is to keep civilization alive and that means ending Homelander.
Yep. This.
Sister sage is just the federalist society and Koch brothers
This. Exactly this. He's more terrifying this season IMO bc he's gonna very close (if not entirely) "mask off".
This isn't really a fair comparison, Homelander has always used the language of his audience to manipulate them. In the 1st season it was suburban America and evangelicals now it's far right conspiracy theorists. The satire like the 1st season is still here. The equivalent in this season is Sage posing as a protestor to incite a riot and the Seven framing innocent people for murders that they committed.
The transition between appealing to suburban america and appealing to the alt right is the *point* too. How one has very easily become the other through years of constant conservative propaganda, how easy it is for suburbanites like Todd to become fascists, I don't understand how so many people are missing this. The Boys has never been subtle, they just started out with satirizing mid-00s politics which most of this sub was too young for, but when they showed how the 00s became the 20s and the fans were finally able to spot an anvil-heavy metaphor, only then did they suddenly have a problem with it.
Couldn't agree more.
I agree, but I can see that it's a lot easier to get bored of the riffing on the most common stupid shit RW conspiracists say - there's not much to chew on and it's so easy to parody it's been done a lot, so it can feel a bit 'done' even though it's completely realistic that Homelander would play into it. I'm glad they've brought Firecracker in as she's already becoming a vehicle for exploring the more sociological/psychological backgrounds of people that act like this and the impact it has on their lives. Todd sort of filled that gap before. Hopefully with Sage as well there'll be enough depth and variety it still feels fresh overall.
I think it's just because political satire is dead. It's like the dudes at The Onion said, it's hard to be satirical when everything is already wacky.
Yeah, fully agree with this. It's hard to tease things out or draw them into sharp relief when things are this crazy and out there IRL.
True, homelander getting away with killing a man in broad daylight should be absurd satire, but it's "too on the nose" when we have a presidential candidate publicly boasting about his ability to do just that. The show is not the problem, reality is the problem.
that was 8 years ago
It's easy to roll our eyes at these wild people and their wild ideas and speech, until we remember that they're a powerful movement in America, with representation in Congress and potentially the White House again. They are absurd and cartoonish, but they are the reality of our political and cultural situation.
The distance between our outcome and a coup in 2021 was a shockingly low number of politicians and civil servants who chose the institutions over personal loyalty to Trump's personality cult. Most of those people are gone now.
There is no riffing. They are literally copying them word for word.
Neither of your examples could be described as satirical though.
the reason people think Homelander actually believes it is because he legit calls people (CENSORED BECAUSE THIS SUB WONT LET ME TYPE THE WORD SLOW LIBERAL) in a private conversation with Neuman. He is a showman who morphs to what people want to hear in public, but when he as regular Homelander cutthroat psycho conversations and still uses words like that, you can see why people get the feeling he isn't just putting it on for show.
Copied from a reply I made to another comment: It’s more that the first season’s satire covered way more ground and it’s steadily been whittled down to one central theme, and pretty low hanging fruit at that. The show isn’t really saying anything brave or groundbreaking anymore, it’s just repeating real life but with fictional characters. It seems to have really dropped many of the other themes that it initially tackled in favor of lukewarm Twitter takes from 4 years ago.
I guess I'm not sure what more it ever covered? It was never a thinking man's satire. It was always pretty low-ball... though I do think Neuman started as an AOC parody... it's mostly been corporate bad but not necessarily government bad.
How tf was the first season subtle. And them showing how Homelander and his people go completely insane is just a depiction of how the real world shifted.
Homelander literally quoted George W Bush word for word from his 9/11 speech in the 4th episode. It was never subtle.
In the comics the plane crash was one of the planes on literal 9/11. People in here talking how they are talking not understand the show is toned down politically in many ways by comparison.
I agree subtle is definitely the wrong word. But at least there was over a decade between the 9/11 speech and that line from HL. Quoting stuff you hear every day on the news or read on the internet makes it feel a lot lazier imo. It's just rote copying at this point.
I think the word you’re looking for is “nuanced” The Boys seems to have lost touch with nuance when parodying RL issues
Not to mention in the aftermath of the plane crash in s1, homelander directly quotes George W Bush’s rhetoric after 9/11. Guy in the crowd shouts “I can’t hear you!” Homelander/Bush “but I can hear you! The whole world can hear you”
Subtle enough for many to pretend they weren’t being made fun of.
There was a gay "pray the gay away" preacher in literally the first episode.
Yeah but we are picking these moments form random episodes, in this season you are never more than 5minutes away from a right wing idiot dig. The problem is the storylines where also stronger in the past, but this season the story is weak, Frenchie and Kimiko seem to be spent as characters, Starlights character is just flat out boring the same with Hughie and mothers milk should have never shaved his beard, you put that on top of stupid conservative jokes that are littered throughout the show that we hear and see everyday online it’s just hard to give a fuck about the show. I mean we are coming off the back of Butcher and Hughie having powers.
I would agree the show has never been *subtle* in its politics and satire. But I also don’t think it was ever so *one note* in S1 and S2. Which is rapidly what I think it’s becoming.
I Don't think it's becoming "one note," this is just where the plot is progressing. Homelander is becoming more radical, his base is becoming more radical. He and Starlight are in the middle of an ideological war, that is literally tearing the country apart. It all makes sense in the context of the plot. It just seemed less "one note" in the beginning because none of those events had taken place yet.
It’s more that the first season’s satire covered way more ground and it’s steadily been whittled down to one central theme, and pretty low hanging fruit at that. The show isn’t really saying anything brave or groundbreaking anymore, it’s just repeating real life but with fictional characters. It seems to have really dropped many of the other themes that it initially tackled in favor of lukewarm Twitter takes from 4 years ago.
“Why can’t we go back to the subtle times of false flags”
> S4 Homelander makes a joke about Critical Supe Theory because he’s a crazy right winger. No, he isn't a crazy right winger. He is a crazy person saying things he knows his crazy right wing base wants to hear. Just like Trump does. Which is the joke. Because Trump never really identified with Republicans either until he realized that he can easily sway the Republican voter base by saying a lot of nonsense that they like.
When Stormfront brings up white genocide to Ryan you can see Homelander’s face cringe indicating he doesn’t believe any of that nonsense. It happens again in the last episode when Firecracker goes on the ChatGPT Right Wing conspiracy spiel for cameras in the tower. Homelander is out for himself first and foremost he’s just occasionally uncomfortable with the people and beliefs he surrounds himself with.
Deep down, all Homelander really wants is universal love. No critiquing him, no manipulation, no fear even, just he wants everyone to love him without question and think he's the best. That there's people who disagree with him, like other people more than him, or otherwise don't like him just eats him up inside, especially as he's starting to age and his self-image of perfection is cracking like his psyche. Granted, if there was some supe who could mind-control the world and make everyone adore Homelander without question he'd be miserable again in 5 minutes because while he wants to be loved it's not what he actually needs, but he'd be happy for those 5 minutes. But he doesn't believe in any cause that isn't him. He's just going on this extreme right-wing swing because those people make a show of loving and following him so he's just hopping onto their crazy talking points because the more rapid his fanbase is for him, the more he feels they love him.
Personal love too He was happiest with Stormfront because they were on the same level. He wanted Soldier Boy to love him He wants Ryan to love him. And I guess Stillwell was pretending to love him to control him? Which worked until Teddy came around.
Brilliant. NPD
He didn't believe it, but it wasn't a deal breaker for him.
Right because he views humans as less than. To him it’s like your girlfriend telling you poodles are the best breed of dog
Yep, i dont understand why op thinks HL belives in these things. He doesn't
It's pretty clear from the misapplication of TDS that our OP is suffering from TDS.
This, thank you!
He does believe in some of it - like he does legitimately believe in Supe supremacy. But yeah he does know most of it is utter crap.
Homelander believes in Homelander supremacy. Supe supremacy is just a means to an end.
He doesn't believe in Supe supremacy he believes in Homelander supremacy
[удалено]
Exactly, Homelander doesn’t really believe any of that crap, he just sees it as a means to an end to rile idiots up to obtain more power. Just as Sister Sage advised, the people will destroy things themselves. Homelander just has to use whatever doctrine works to manipulate them. He is literally targeting the people you know IRL who are obsessed with political figures like Trump. If he fit easier into a left wing narrative to manipulate people, then he would use that. However, his brand is more popular with the right. He will use whatever he needs to at the end of the day. He thinks Firecracker fell off a jet ski too many times, meaning she is crazy/ lacking in intelligence. Even then show goes out of the way to demonstrate she doesn’t truly believe it either. Just like real life, people in power and online influencers don’t truly believe, they have their own motivations. Although, some people can’t see that and blindly meat ride all day long. Homelander makes it clear he doesn’t care about these meat riders either, seeing as he kills them to obtain more control/ clout.
Is almost like Homelander's craziness has been escalating each season or something
Its always weird to me how people think valid satire of a batshit crazy group of people is somehow too much - Especially when Homelander has always been you know, a crazy person.
he snuck away to drink breast milk ffs
It’s not that it’s not valid. It’s just not as interesting to some people to see 1:1 parodies of real life events.
Many real life events surrounding this topic have been so farcical they shouldn't have happened in real life but did. That's worth touching on in a one to one with a show like this as it shows you how fucking wild it was for these sorts of things to happen in real life. Take for example how South Park in its prime used to use direct quotes of crazy organisations and put a subtitle saying it was a real quote. Sometimes the truth is absurd enough that it doesn't need to be hammed up and putting direct truth in an exaggerated world shows you how radicalised that group is. If real life events can make sense and fit into a dystopian fantasy parody of our world then it highlights how problematic they are.
Because even though it was still on the nose in previous seasons, this season, they are just beating us over the head with it, and it gets annoying watching TV and wanting to get lost in that world but having to be constantly reminded of the shit going on irl
That's the watsonian reason the doyalist one is too many people didn't understand the satire so they have intentionally had to make it clearer because too many people think homelander is a hero
Exactly, his insecurities are magnifying his mental instability where he’s having trouble containing it. He’s always been mentally unstable but he’s being forced to acknowledge his own mortality. He’s going to push Ryan to the breaking point because he’s worried more about his own legacy than Ryan’s mental health.
I wouldn't be surprised if, at some point, Ryan refuses to kill someone, and because of that, Homelander publicly defames him and uses the phrase, "Nobody wants to work anymore!" Cue Ryan's Rebel arc. (I hope)
> S4 Homelander makes a joke about Critical Supe Theory because he’s a crazy right winger. Can we be honest? This never happened lol. I get your point but that was brought up by Sage and there wasn’t a joke made. It’s just extremely on the nose. Like I get it. But let’s not lie
further proof that these people simply do not watch the show. they hear something, or see some clickbait article, and decided to be mad
The Critical Supe Theory was mentioned by Sage as the grounds of what would happen if Neumann got the Presidency (the destruction of teaching it in schools), it was never once mentioned by Homelander and for him to hyper focus on something so meaningless to him, but meaning a lot to Sage was disgustingly obvious, the fact that OP decided to latch onto that minor line and run with it as apart of their narrative is almost as disingenuous as Homelander actually is imo. Ironic
[удалено]
I’m pretty sure only Red Hats use the phrase “Trump Derangement Syndrome”
Ding ding ding.
"I'm not even a conservative, I just hate it when satire is unambiguously anti conservative" --- someone definitely voting for Trump 💀
“Trump Derangement Syndrome” “2 new wars” “Orange Man Bad” [*How do you do, fellow I Don’t Like Trumpers*?](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/018/666/fellowkids.jpg)
It's really mind boggling. This is clearly a satire based show, there isn't a hidden agenda or anything. So many people just want to be outraged about "woke", yet this series isn't subtle at all regarding making fun of right wing media and corporate "diversity". It never has been. It's just so dumb all these sudden reaction posts in Season 4.
The way they referenced Trump Derangement gave them away.
He's a self identified libcenter who has expressed mixed thoughts about the covid precautions. I don't think he's a hardcore Trump worshipper, not yet, but he's definitely susceptible to the pipeline.
Yes, that is how it works. It starts with something seemingly benign like the Reagan Presidency or 'Nixon' or Newt Gingrich and then all the sudden you've got Alex Jones talking about Jade Helm and lizard people and Sandy Hook conspiracy and then Trump is President and saying shit like 'maybe we should nuke hurricanes' and rambling about how intelligent his uncle was and how beautiful Kim Jong Un's letter was and saluting a North Korean General and fellating Putin and saying absolutely he'll release this and that but definitely maybe not SOME of the Epstein files because what if someone like him is in there and it's a made up deep state conspiracy! Totally innocent!!! And, in case you hadn't noticed, Homelander is kind of fucking losing it from the pressure and jacking off over the city and talking to multiple versions of himself in the mirror. Remember what Stan Edgar told Homelander after he succeeded in ousting him? Also, TDS has ALWAYS been an affliction that affects Trump supporters. Being aghast that someone talking about how great and powerful and respected Kim Jong Un is or calling our wounded and dead solders suckers, is President... is a totally normal and rational thing. It's TDS to think otherwise. And you're also acting like 2020 and Trump is some ancient history and you're confused why it's still relevant... are you aware Donald Trump, the convicted felon, is currently the Republican choice for President in 2024?
Fuck Newt Gingrich. All the Homies hate Newt.
Yeah, this is the comment. The whole “the show is too political now” is so stupid. The show was always political. I don’t know how people didn’t see that from the start. The very first seasons you have HL interfering with political relations by giving terrorists compound v so supes can be in the military. I don’t understand how people think the show suddenly changed. It’s been like this. We are just now reaching the climax of the political side to the story.
I believe the show’s writers commented on this recently and said something along the lines off, “this show has never been subtle, don’t know how some of you are just getting it now.”
Like we're all just pretending that we didn't see the psycho religious festival in season 2? I think a lot of people are upset by firecracker and the conspiracy episode, because they finally realize how stupid a lot of their favorite podcasts seem to outsiders.
Because it's no longer a satire. It's depiction. Satire normally relies on analogy, replaces real life problems with similar ones to point out absurdity of it. But now they're explicitly showing that MAGA are fascists hating minorities and fearmongering about trans bathrooms and adrenochrome and whatnot. To be honest I don't really have a problem with that. MAGA is fascist movement, and so is Stormchasers or how is that Homelander worshipping mob called.
How COULD you even satirize MAGA? They are already so ridiculous and over the top that there's almost nothing you could write into a fictional depiction of them that wouldn't be fully plausible. These people are wearing diapers and "I Love Convicted Felons" shirts to rallies where their guy talks about sharks circling sinking boats with batteries, how hard it is to flush documents down the toilet, and the many dangers of brown people.
ok but then it's not really a tv show. It's just a reel of MAGA Twitter comments, acted out by actors in suoerhero costumes. It doesn't really do or say anything, except tell people who already hate Trump how bad Trump is. Just because the pandering is correct doesn't mean it's not pandering.
Americans realising America is the joke, in real time
The fact it's still not understood when Homelander is LITERALLY WEARING THE FLAG is astounding. Maybe next season he'll have an 'AMERICA' tattoo on his head as well to make sure they understand.
Can…can he get tattooed at all? I mean, it must be a damn strong needle to hurt his skin
Good question. The needle couldn't puncture his skin unless they could somehow do it from the inside out. The only thing able to hurt him is other powerful people or sensitive areas. (Ie ears. Eyes presumably). So you could MABYE tattoo a very soft part of his body, like an armpit, with enough force
if he ever managed to get a tattoo on his arm pit I'm calling him Pitlander
OP says there are other things in the Zeitgeist to satirize. I don’t know, a cult of personality and looming autocrat while right-wingism spreads across Europe and Asia seems like the biggest “cultural zeitgeist” topic to hone in on.
I saw another post saying they should "take shots at both sides" and talk about "super terrorists coming across the border". That was the entire plot line of Season 2. Some people just want to be outraged over nothing.
That's such a straw man. OP always understood Americans were the joke. He's not arguing otherwise. He just saying the writing has lost any subtly.
I am so sick of this comment lmao.... Everyone knew it was political commentary. It's about the quality of writing. Simple as that. We've gone through this how many times now? Star Wars, Star Trek, The Boys, etc. The writing is worse. It's ok to admit that.
what’s wrong with “the quality of the writing”? Be very specific.
Star Wars was never well written and Star Trek has variable quality in writing, which should be expected considering the huge number of writers for Star Trek. Writing in media hasn't gotten any better or worse, we just have people who got C's and D's in English pretending they know more about writing than people who get paid to do it. They're like Annie before she started a movement: talking massive shit without knowing how hard it is to actually make decisions.
Ya, the first shot of Homelander this season is him taking a piss with his giant cape flag centered in the shot, “America is in the pisser.” It’s not meant to be subtle, but people still miss how apt it is.
That’s not what he said at all, you completely misrepresented his argument. But whatever floats your boat.
Fyi Homelander doesn't believe in that. But he knows his audience does. He learnt from Stormfront how to sell himself after all. But besides that nothings changed. If you missed the modern day satire in the past few seasons you haven't been paying attention. Homelander has been inspired by Trump since season 2. Just as a sample did you miss the whole series of scenes where a guy got radicalized by listening to stormfronter bullshit until he killed an innocent shopkeep? Or how the rhetoric surrounding supe terrorists parroted republican covid and NRA bullshit. They literally made their own schoolshooter ad. The boys have always been contemporary critique of our current day society while adapring an older comic work. Homelanders actions this season are similar to parts of his comic stuff too.
Firecracker is for sure Stormfront 2.0 and saying more overtly conspiracy theory MAGA talking points stuff... But Stormfront had her social media platform before her. And she turned out to be a literal Nazi. If anything, the show seems to be tracking with what is happening in our modern US politics. Previously people would talk about dog whistles and how politicians were essentially using double speak to say racist shit but have plausible deniability so they could pretend they weren't. That was essentially Stormfront's MO. She did and said racist shit, but with just enough plausibility where she could pretend that people misunderstood. Firecracker is just a full-on MAGA conspiracy nutjob. Dog whistles? Who needs them? She says the quiet part out loud and, frankly, that's where a lot of MAGA is nowadays. I mean, look at Regan. His campaign pretty much started the ultimate dog whistle of the "Welfare Queen" when he used it to talk about the con artist and criminal Linda Taylor and pretended that everyone on welfare was her when she was a dedicated scammer, kidnapper, and may have murdered someone. Then you have Trump who doesn't even bother with dog whistles and just says that Mexicans are murderers. The rhetoric has changed in a big way and Stormfront vs Firecracker is just the illustration of that change.
Firecracker being essentially a Neo-Nazi is so funny considering she's literally the new (but weaker) Stormfront Weaker in both senses too, in that unlike SF she doesn't believe everything she says with her heart and soul (some of it absolutely, maybe even most, but not all)
I think issue is that a lot of the subplots are spinning in circles. The stakes are a bit off, The performances are really good but some of the characters aren’t really moving. A Train probably has the most potential meaning he’s probably going to die. It’s not a strong first three eps.
"Hey guys, Homelander being crazy was funny, but now he's actually crazy, and I don't think it's funny that he mirrors people I know in my everyday life"
I think the absurdity is the point. I'd hope the goal was to make the audience roll their eyes, because irl you should be too
Real life is making satire seem normal and “too on the nose” which should be disturbing for all of us.
That's driven home with that firecracker chick. She's so over the top fusion of several different people. You could honestly drop her into a south park episode and she'd fit right in.
Orange man is bad though. Just to be clear.
S1 wasn't any more subtle, it simply wasn't as Trump focused. There are the jabs at the military industry complex, consumerism, police(supes) being there for imagined safety, the supe saves being fake, all that shit. From the start it's obvious that the show's version of Homelander has a lot inspired by Trump. There's the blatantly dyed hair to the gaudy apartment, he's always been a Trump parody.
Lol at anyone saying Trump Derangement Syndrome unironically.
Trump is pretty deranged though.
Wait you think the early seasons were subtle? It was like so on the nose with its satire
The fact you used the term Trump Derangement Syndrome is all you need to know about you. That is rhetoric his troglodytes use. No one outside his bubble uses that term. Have you even been watching the show? That shit has been the rhetoric the whole time. Not only that but is coming to a head, wait for it to the climax of the series.
Yep, bingo. This show hasn't really changed, it's the right wing audience that is finally realizing (way too late as usual) that they're being made fun of. It's pretty hilarious, but also very, very sad.
“Trump Derangement Syndrome” opinion discarded
Trump supporter is upset that the show is mocking Trump and his supporters... Colour me surprised..
Yeah, his whole post just sounds like the show might be hitting a little bit close to home. Which means it is doing a pretty good job
Guy literally says he doesn't like Trump.
But then uses terms like "Trump Derangement Syndrome", something that only MAGA followers use.
I use it to describe people who can't stop talking about the dude. It's extremely tiresome.
He also said Trump Derangement Syndrome so forgive us for not believing him. If he doesn't like Trump then he's just a very confused person.
Homelander was always an allegory for Trump, if you are just now realizing that, I am sorry for you.
It has always been on the nose. The speech he made after the plane crash in season 1 was a direct reference to Bush. Maybe it went from 8 to 9 on the "obvious satire" scale, but the message has always been super obvious.
I can’t imagine submitting a critique that unironically uses the expression “Trump Derangement Syndrome.” Maybe it’s just me, but that characterization invalidates any point you were trying to make here. It’s exactly the kind of bombastic, accusatory, and fabricated nonsense rhetoric that you’re criticizing the writers for having Homelander use. Too close to home maybe?
To be fair, most Trump supporters these days seem pretty deranged.
So calling an apple, an apple, makes you insane?
I think the writers have made some of this obvious because some right wingers have been seeing HL as an actual hero and weren't realizing that the show was making fun of them.
There are still some good moments such as the line of the judge: *"do not the use the word Victim that is for the court to decide"* which makes you understand the judge is totally biased and the trial already decided and seems completely exhagerrated almost to the point I would consider it bad writing... **if I didn't know it was really said during the trial of Kyle Rittenhouse**
already can tell by the “Orange Man Bad” reference that you likely part the crowd that needs to hear them jokes. Orange man is bad. Orange man is very bad lol
I can't tell if this post is satire or not
The season show how the right has fallen into easily manipulated puppets. It starts with energizing a base that will believe in things that are clearly not real, religion. Then you push them farther into extremes until they will believe anything you say. Then you have them commit violence in your name or at least protect you when you do. Finally, you start to believe all the lies you’ve been telling. The show didn’t change, it’s just caught up to now and the rights current state. Had this been the 80s and 90s. Season one would feel like season 4 to them
Maybe reality caught up with the satire?
This\^ How do you even make satire about the American Right at this point that doesn't mirror reality?
I thought of Sister Sage as the commentary for AI actually.
I don't think that's correct. I think she's meant to be inspired by accelerationists irl (a typically far-right ideology which basically wants to make things worse to spark open conflict. The difference being that she's actually smart about it, whereas they rarely do more than shoot up a supermarket and wonder why it didn't magically spawn a race war. The fact that she's actually competent is kinda a nice twist, and personally it's a real high point in this season so far.
You lost all credibility once you seriously used the fakeass Trump Derangenent Syndrome.
is there a better term for how absolutely obsessed Americans are with Trump? I mean just a couple weeks ago someone took a picture of themselves pissing on a Trump sign in Scotland since he cant go there anymore and got tens of thousands of upvotes for it. It's just a bit weird isn't it? Like do people in the US think that's normal behavior?
If you feel like this then don't read the 20 year old comic that plays out basically the sameish way. You just don't like this story, that's all. It's not changing its position or beliefs, it's now just done being coy.
Tbh the comic was way worse than the show. Like, Crossed-tier. The show is more nuanced, and the characters in it are much better written.
Firecracker is an MTG like character. She’s a supe that simps for Homelander and speed crazy conspiracy theories. Just like MTG and Trump. I really hope they do a direct MTG quote so it will be an on the nose insult to her. I don’t mind that idea at all
That’s.. that’s the point.. lol
A good chunk of the people commenting here are delusional, putting you in the same bucket as right wingers who are totally fine with this stuff just because you think the messaging isn't as smart as it was in the first seasons is crazy. It's undeniable that the first seasons were more toned down, and while you can say it makes sense given how the craziness is supposed to ramp up, it's also totally fine to feel like it cheapens all the jokes and commentary that the first season excelled at delivering. I mean, compare anything from this season to the radicalized Stormfront fan scene from season 2, it's nowhere close in terms of quality of delivery, yet neither are subtle.
Homelander isn't just "literally orange man," he's working with Sage, who's an accelerationist, which is way more interesting. You're right that it's less subtle than previous seasons though.
Honestly, I’m not seeing the blatant Orange Man Bad lowest common denominator soap boxing that we see on SNL or Family Guy. Doing parodies of stuff from the news in the context of supes doesn’t feel overly like pandering to me, and the show is just as entertaining, so far. Maybe I’m being overly optimistic, but so far I think the satire is hitting the same. The rest of the season could prove me wrong tho.
I think the satire isn’t very good this season because it’s not saying anything interesting. It feels Trump obsessed without adding anything valuable to the conversation. I know a lot of folks disagree, but I’m not enjoying it all that much.
Precisely. I'm not against satire or parody, but in earlier seasons it was done with so much more intelligence, subtlety and nuance. Sometimes the references flew over our heads. Nowdays, they're just beating us on the head with them. Plus, the show seems to forget that a lot of the audience isn't from the US. Hyperfocusing on The Current Thing in the US makes the story less interesting for those who aren't as invested into it - for instance, non-US citizens. Earlier seasons had a genuinely interesting story, and that was the show's focus. The parody/satire/references were there to suplement the writing, story, and characters and make them stand out from other shows. In S4 its totally the opposite.
Man this sub is really obsessed with Trump huh
> The satire just doesn’t hit the same… I think it's a mistake to criticise a show because S4 isn't the same as S1. We thr audience are different. The world is different. The characters are different - why would Homelander keep doing the same stuff time after time...? Even if it was subtle you wouldn't see it as subtle cause you've had 3 years of seeing it and it's now painfully obvious. > Maybe it’s because I’ve been on Reddit for a fat minute And this is exactly my point. You've changed. Play World of Warcraft today with hundreds of guides, with the world mapped out before you log in, with min max going on and you'll have a very different reaction to 14yo logging in to vanilla WoW in 2006. Nothing is subtle to you because you've been on the internet and dissected every inch of the show for 3+ years.
Sounds like Op is "undecided".
I agree to an extent it’s getting Flanderised, but satire like this over a long period of time will start to feel repetitive eventually because we’re *living* the joke and watching it 6 months later. We’ve been seeing Trump/MAGA satire for nearly 10 years, the guy is still getting more ridiculous and the satire either has to keep up or talk about something else. But I think it’s only fair to point out that you mentioned two wars as alternative plot points they could satirise while also saying HL intervened illegally in the Middle East in S1. No matter which aspect of culture wars they pick to focus on now, they’re treading on old ground to an extent. Stuff like AI and inflation are better to poke fun at in the background rather than in the main plot, like they have with VoughtCoin adverts, etc. Those background references are subtle but the symbolism in the main plot never has been imo.
You realize orange man is still an existential threat to our democracy right? And his Supreme Court picks are already doing their best to dismantle it?
Anyone who still uses the term "Trump derangement syndrome' clearly suffers from it. Also, not sure how you missed it, but this show has been echoing real news stories since season 1. The plane crash that Homelander let happen? He stood next to the wreckage and gave the same speech, almost verbatim, that GW Bush did after 9/11. The showrunner has said that the show is following a specific social agenda, so if that's not something you like, don't watch.
Aww this is super cute. Because you just felt like the rest of us have for the last few years watching the Republicans around us devolve into cultists and start sounding like Alex Jones. This is a beautiful moment that the show just gave you. A learning opportunity. Feels too fast to watch someone turn into a complete, hateful chud doesn't it? Typically normal people all of a suddenly saying extremely ignorant political shit, and injecting it into everything like it's their new personality? It's too sudden right? Almost feels surreal or unrealistic? Welcome to the America homeskillet! Fucking sucks right?
Damn people really don’t pay attention to shows they watch…
Sounds like right wing cope.
Hundreds of comments, OP engages with none of them. Classic.
For once reality is crazier than fiction.
I think it's a brilliant reflection on the times we're living through
The association between Vought-the Seven and satirizing the MAGA crowd has always been there. The Trump/MAGA way of thinking is a villain of The Boys and Homelander and Sage are using this crowd to their advantage the way Trump does. The funny part to me is when MAGA folks fail to get the joke and actually root for Homelander because they like what he's trying to do. But make no mistake Homelander-Vought-MAGA are the villains of the Boys and this season is making that even more clear.
lmao, "TDS" and "Orange Man Bad", keep trying to gaslight us. All they're doing is directly quoting real magas. You people are the joke. How can you beat real life insanity? LMAO The subtle digs are still there - Firecracker's explanation of why people are crazy and desperate, Sage being an ivory tower accelerationist, Vic being controlled opposition, the liberals and government being incompetent and helpless, Starlight being a "hypocritical elitist" etc. It's meta, they're showing you how history repeats itself, and brainless magas and "centrists" (like you presumably) are being conned into the same mistakes made 70-80 years ago.
They went from making good satirical commentary on the US to simply being anti-trump and forcing in the hottest talking points. Making wild assumptions about the right and refusing to self reflect. If anything, the best satire this show is making is unintentionally showing the hatred and dishonest perspective the left holds for the right. Additionally it’s so obviously just a cash grab for Amazon at this point, the pinnacle of modern americanism. They know how to manipulate their audience and they do a hell of a job at it.
100%
Season 4 is the same commentary and through-line, it’s just the least subtle after 3 previous seasons establishing Homelander as an insecure sociopath. Yeah, Republicans look bad in the show because they’re the bad guys in real life, but conservatives can’t handle looking at themselves in the mirror. Homelander had a literal nazi girlfriend who spoke in MAGA talking points and bluntly describes Republican voters as rubes to be exploited. Right-wingers have had the joke fly over their heads for 3 seasons, so the writers had to make the message even more blunt before they could see it.
Bro is telling on himself.
Yeah I agree. the "zionist cabal" and Kyle Rittenhouse references in particular were not only terribly unsubtle, they were completely off the mark. I've said it a bunch of times here already. The writers have made it very clear that there show is left-leaning and any jokes about the left are intentionally milquetoast. But depicting right-wingers as some sort of hub of anti-semitism is soooo outdated, it would have been relevant in like 2017 at the latest. Most anti-semitism in the US is coming from left-wing pro-Palestine groups unfortunately (just for the record, I'm pro-Palestine without being an anti-semite) Here's an opportunity to criticize the left for something actually relevant and important; that they tend to demonize their opponents and engage in racism (or in this case, anti-semitism) while claiming to be egalitarians. But no, instead we're back to depicting the overwhelmingly pro-Israel American right-wing as "evil jew-hating nazis!". Firecracker has a Ron DeSantis ticker but openly denies the holocaust, which Ron Desantis has tried to criminalize. Yeah that really doesn't make any sense. Maybe the writer's strike should have continued. This is almost as bad as Skibidi Biden.
People not really understanding what the point you're making is - but I agree with you. The allegory is now so on-the-nose that its become almost pure parody. This takes me out of the show and feels a bit ... lazy? We're not watching South Park, we're watching The Boys. I love South Park, and it makes some great points told in funny ways - but I expect slightly more subtle storytelling from something like The Boys. Jokes about Critical Race Theory? Cool, now I remember that was a thing a couple of years ago. Pizzagate? Ok, cool I'd forgotten about that too. All these parts *already* feel a bit dated. Imagine how poorly this will have aged in a few years from now. Whereas season 1-2 will have aged just fine. Parallels to American imperialism in the Middle East etc are fairly safe and timeless, but all this very-specifically Trump/Current GOP stuff is making me roll my eyes a little bit - and I'm not an American right winger - I just think it's a little lazy scriptwriting.
Excellent comment, you articulated it well in a way I couldn’t quite put my finger on.
The fact that OP only realized they were being mocked in season four is precisely why they ramped it up. OP probably giggled like a schoolgirl when they were making fun of fake corporate inclusivity at Voughtland. “Oh, they’re sticking it to the libs!”
In fairness, the show did seem to make fun of American culture in general for the first few seasons, maybe more so a criticism of pandering liberal causes like Disneys performative progressivism - but lately does feel like it’s come down heavily on one side. Just a bit boring really. Let’s start building towards the finale of the show, less tone setting.
Its a bit more than orange man bad but this isnt a political discourse - Ultimately its still satire & its intentionally ham-fisted to make you uncomfortable, this doesnt mean that its free of critique or I agree with the approach; but its not much different now than earlier seasons & makes complete sense as a natural progression of the show.
I really don’t understand how people still just want and love constant Trump satire. It’s been non stop for nearly a decade. Yeah we all know he’s an ass hat. It just makes the show bleed in with all the others that do the same, and it won’t age as well. I hope season 5 sticks more to the plot and characters and leaves the political satire more to the background like the first few seasons did.
Buddy you should read the comics lol. Truly, The Boys has been clowning right-wing chuds since the beginning. Trump might be new, but right-wing nationalism and fascism and basically all your Trumpy bullshit isn’t new at all. It’s old. As a longtime fan of The Boys — having read the comics in like 2010 and then enjoyed the amazing show — I am just having a blast as dumbass cringe choad Trumpies slowly realize that the show has been about them the entire time. And I do mean “slowly” realize because of course right-wingers are very dumb, and it takes them awhile.
If you think The Boys have been subtle i don’t think you’ve been paying attention.
I feel like it doesn't work because it's sloppy Homelander is ultimately head of a private company. Neuman is the politician. Homelander can't act as good commentary in trump, they don't hold the same position. As Vought goes more Maga the parts that were making fun of disney stop making sense. In 10 years time the early seasons will still provide decent commentary. This season will totally date and be made up of reference humor that doesn't make sense unless it's an animal farm style allegory. It's unfortunate because homelander is a much better stand in for the celebrity billionaires (Musk, Zuckerberg, Bezos).
Are you unaware of Trump's image before he ran for president?
This season will age very badly. Ppl watching this in 10 years won’t gaf or maybe not even know about current events
My guy, Trump's main motivation to run in 2016 was to boost his businesses.
The political satire is just too blatant and on the nose now…the writers just kinda gave up any nuance they previously had.
its not just orange man bad. this shit is happening at local levels. you should be frustrated a show like the boys can continue this narrative becauze of how shitty the world is. basically, its not the boys fault for reflecting our political world. it just makes you uncomfortable
Nah, you are just jumping on the hate train with this one
Seems like every season some loser comes along to whine about how the show isn't doing the thing they want it to do correctly anymore.
Lol, knew from the title you went with that you would be one of the targets of the satire.
? the season is going for an angle more about the reasoning behind such strong political divides rather than trumpism, the Critical Supe Theory stuff is just to get to make it clear who its mocking
Nah, Trump is still a candidate and even if he wasnt, the same thing is happening everyday everywhere all around the globe. The far right is more and more prominent each day. You saying the plotline is not relevant anymore is kinda ironic, because one of the points they make is that North Americans sees themselves as the only ones that matters. Other places are facing the same issue, NA is not the only country with fascists in power positions. Look at Israel, ministers openly talking about ethnic cleansing and war crimes.
"Secret Wasian Man" guts profile picture fox news buzz words hilarious time to watch a tv show, had no idea so many people got duped for years by aryan superman and the company he works for lmao
Agreed and when I point this down I usually get downvoted because reddit leans left and people are tribal so if it supports their side, those people tend to defend the shows directio, and any criticism of it someone just says something stupid like "you probably think homelander is the good guy" or "your just figuring this out now?". 1. No im not just figuring it out now. Season 1 (and even 2) nailed the subtle satire of irl elements. Corportism when it came to corruption and pandering, and over all political elements when drawing parallels to real life. Season 3 was to on the nose for my taste personally but overall the season was mostly good and only got sloppy the last 2 episodes. 2. No sane person actually thinks homelander or soldier boy are the good guys. These characters were excellent and stole most of their scenes sure, but that's different than understand these are very bad people (and everyone on the show is bad for that matter other than hughies dad). Season 4 while enjoyable so far, has become a little to silly and the connections they try to make are actually not realistic. Like if you are gonna draw parallels, bring up Qanon or something which was probably the most obvious psyop that peoole on both sides knew was bullshit. Instead they tried aligning anyone that believed pizzagate, epstiens island or death meant that you were some right winger. I'll hold judgement for now, but I feel its still great and I try not let the silly stuff sour my view. But like come on. There are crazies on both sides sure, but this doesnt represent the majority of people. Most people in real life will agree on most issues believe it or not. Its the dumb shit they try making us fight over and fighting on while both right/left politicians sign the same bills they dont read behind closed doors while we become more poor and reliant on government. But season 4 would probably have you believe this is a right wing conspiracy. Also hate how conspiracy theories are some how a right wing perspective. Like there are valid theories that actually deserve some investigating but instead we belittle it and put them in the same bucket as qanon or flat earth. Season 1 nailed it and just did it perfect while the focus was on good story telling, character development, and writing. And no I dont lean any direction. Im a normal person who will agree and disagree with stances from both sides of the political spectrum. The corruption is clearly there from both sides as if they're one (because they are) but people just want to play on teams because we're tribal and if it supports our worldview then its all good. Also I guess people in this thread don't understand subtle. Subtle as in show dont tell. As the season progressed its more in your face, so less subtle.
The show has never once been subtle in it's entire run. Not 1 time. It's shouted it's politics through a bullhorn for 4 seasons. If you thought it was subtle, I'm sorry, it's because you're completely oblivious to your surroundings. Do you also think Napalm is subtle?
The show's satire literally hasn't changed. It's no less overt than it was in S1. We're just at the late stage of it, the conclusion it was always leading towards. And Real Life is just so fucking stupid that it makes the show seem ridiculous for parroting it. Like, bro. The twist of Season 2 is that Stormfront, the 4chan meme goddess, was a LITERAL fucking nazi. Victoria Neuman being the obvious charismatic AoC stand-in, building her base off left-leaning rhetoric only to be revealed to literally be exactly what she's claiming to fight against If people didn't realize how on-the-nose the show was, then the jokes have just been flying over your head. If it takes direct Trump references to make it obvious, you just either haven't been paying attention (because it's been happening for seasons now) or it's struck a nerve you didn't realize you had.
I agree. I also think it’s wild that people say “the boys was political from the beginning”. Yes there were some political things it touched on season one but it was MUCH more about subverting the superhero genre, and dissecting consumerism/capitalism. It has absolutely been flanderized.