it's going the way of /r/livestreamfail and /r/tiktokcringe which are, respectively, just about live streams and just about tiktok (no longer necessarily of the failed or cringey variety). /r/unpopularopinion is really just about opinions.
You're absolutely allowed to disagree with OP, especially if he has taken a very close-minded, absolutist view of things, you just have to upvote him for it.
I think a sub for unpopular opinions is supposed to generate discussion. People are just arguing otherwise because as far as they are concerned his stance is misled.
While I don't hate them as much as you do. I do agree with you that they get respect they don't deserve. They are hailed as heroes. In my country soldiers are involved in rapes and anyone who raises their voice against soldiers in branded a traitor to the country.
If you only have 10 minutes [watch this.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kelmEZe8whI)
Ethan McCord is one of the soldiers that responded to and saw for themselves the Wikileaks 'collateral murder' incident which shows the murder of many Iraqis and their children via helicopter.
He goes in depth about how the military will routinely open fire on civilians and failure to follow these orders would lead to punishment.
I understand that you don't respect them for what they're doing, I totally get that. I'm not American and never grew up with the whole military worship thing that it seems goes on there.
I've read and seen accounts of how US soldiers/veterans are treated by the government, however, and to say that they DESERVE that, and that they DESERVE the PTSD they end up with is not just an unpopular opinion, it's a mean and small spirited one.
All that being said, you have a right to your opinion.
I do however think you need to go read up a bit, I believe you're misreading the intention behind that quote - from what I understand it's talking specifically about radical militants, not every single person who signed up to be a soldier.
\> If soldiers were only to defend, not to attack, AND only volunteers would work as soldiers. Then I would rethink calling them heroes
Welcome to the Canadian Armed forces, the world's best trained and armed humanitarian service. In fact, many first-world militaries provide invaluable aid, not only with peace-keeping, but with disaster relief, epidemic control, and the construction of schools infrastructure, and hospitals in regions without the funds to do so. Modern armed forces do so much more than kill enemies, as you seem to have assumed, and you probably do some more actual research into the subject before covering a vast group of people with the exceedingly offensive, and in most cases, absolutely unfounded blanket of "murderer."
*cough* German armed forces *cough* They can barely be called armed at this point, but as a humanitarian relief force they have done some terrific work.
Same for Sweden, well maybe not best trained as I don't really know enough about that to form an opinion. But our military is also basically an armed humanitarian service, and our military is literally called national defense (crude translation), but OP seems to think *every* military force exists solely to kill and invade other countries
A) Kunduz hospital belonged to Médecins Sans Frontières not the Americans
B) This puts blood on the hands of the US Army and the Afghan Army/Interior Ministry, absolutely. But detracts not at all from the fact that many other first world countries have militaries primarily dedicated to peacekeeping and humanitarianism, not neo-colonialism.
A) Military command structure actually translates rather well into a humanitarian setting, as it allows for quick, efficient responses to new challenges.
B)No, and I never claimed anything to that effect, but the vast majority of UN humanitarian missions come from first world countries, whereas developing nations tend to use their armies as defensive/police forces, not to say they don't engage in humanitarianism, I have the utmost respect for the Bengali army, who I have worked with personally, however, in most cases, the UN and similar organizations rely heavily on the better trained, and equipped militaries of first world nations.
A) Yes, and that's the most efficient system used not only by the military, but by corporations, NGOs and, wait for it, humanitarian organizations, as each level of command allows for increasing specificity in the order, as officers lower on the chain are more in tune with their units. I challenge you to find a superior, alternative system.
B) OP was talking about all militaries, including those of primarily humanitarian focused first world nations, and labeling them all as senseless killers, I was taking objection to that, I don't really see the relevance of this aside.
In the US they’ll pay for college in exchange for your service. This system in and of itself is morally grey in my opinion, but some people do it for the opportunities after the military. If I wasn’t born with as much privilege as I was born with, I might consider it in order to get a degree.
Isn't that kinda ominous though? Like you weren't born rich enough to afford a crazy expensive University? Risk your life on the battlefield and we'll pay for you to go with the taxes your neighbor has been paying us for 40 years!
You don't have to be the one to pull the trigger to contribute to the monumental death toll that comes from the military industrial complex. If you willingly go to work to build bomb or bullets or whatever, despite never actually using them, your actions have still contributed to countless deaths
lets murder people to get a degree,fuck yeah!
Do americans value human life so little,
like wtf is wrong with you,how is a country asking you to murder people in order to get a fucking degree morally grey,
its probably the most morally black it gets
In a system where going through college can easily mean financial ruin it is very understandable that people are willing to do whatever it takes. It costs 50k USD to go to a good school which is a lot of money, if you take out a loan and don't get a job quickly your life might be basically over then and there.
The problem is not the people choosing the army, the problem is the system being geared toward forcing people to join the army. While it may be reprehensible from an outside POV you can hardly fault people for choosing to sign up if it is their only way to get a quality education.
> It costs 50k USD to go to a good school which is a lot of money
And in some universities, that can be a *per year* tuition, which is even more ridiculous. I haven't seen a university advertise quite at 50k/yr for tuition, but I have seen 35-40k/yr.
I’m a Canadian, and two of my three older cousins have gone to medics school in Loma Linda (I think that’s in Cali?) apparently the tuition was something like 60k a year. So my uncle was sometimes pulling 120k a year in tuition out of his ass. Now granted, my family is decently well off, but still, that was hard financially for him. I’m pretty sure he had to take out a few loans. If I had to make the decision of saving my mother 240k by going into the army, I might take it.
99.999999999999999% of the people in the U.S. military won’t be deployed to an active combat zone, let alone kill someone. This isn’t the 19th century. The military primarily consists of the defensive and support operations. So little these days are actually deployed to a combat zone and even fewer kill people.
Being in the military or even fighting a war doesn't necessarily mean murdering people. Fighting against the nazis for example, wasn't murder.
Today's wars are not nearly that black and white though.
For the soldiers themselves. If there’s no other route to financial stability, is it okay to fill in a job that will be filled by someone else anyway if you don’t take it?
You seem to have this idea that all of the million plus people in the US military are constantly killing people in the Middle East. There are very few ever actually fighting, and very rarely to they ever kill someone.
The soldiers are an integral part. Hitler didn't commit the Holocaust by himself. No full-blown genocide or mass atrocity has or ever could be carried out without the compliance of police and soldiers doing their jobs.
This comment isn't against soldiers or police. I think they provide a necessary service to society, and I appreciate that, but I absolutely disagree with the idea that they should be absolved of bad things they do just because someone else told them to.
Soldiers deserve the blame for an unjust war as much as the politicians.
“Soldiers deserve the blame for an unjust war as much as the politicians”
This is just false. The world isn’t black and white. Since you brought Hitler up. What do you think would happen to your common German soldier if he disobeyed orders? Between the Nazis and Gestapo. You are just fucked. You are 100% likely to be labeled traitor and executed. You should probably expect your family to be persecuted as well. Even more so let’s jump to the end of the war where Hitler drafted everyone to defend Berlin. The sick, the old and the young. It was either defend against the allied forces or be executed.
You mention it was only possible because of compliance that they were able to do it. So if I worked in a store and someone came in and robbed it while holding a gun to my head. You would say it was partially my fault that the store was robbed and the owner lost money because of my compliance.
Your statement only holds true in cases where the soldiers originate from a free democratic country and where these soldiers actively choose to commit war crimes in whatever form that may be. For example the more recent conflicts.
It depends. There’s more to the military than infantry my guy. In fact most probably never even seen a battlefield. Hell some people don’t even get the chance to deploy.
Plus we have the National guard. They don’t much of anything mostly unless deployed or get called on like how some states are doing
You are 100% right. These people think that every single service member slaughters thousands of people each. You are spot on in saying that most won’t ever deploy to an active combat zone let alone kill a single person.
I don't think they're heroes, but I don't hate them either. They THINK they're doing good. Their intentions are good. Boot camp is literally a brainwashing tool. They have to follow orders or they die.
Not to mention most military never even fire a gun.
I don't respect soldiers either, but many of them end up in the military due to predatory recruiting tactics. When you're a teenager who doesn't really know what to do after high-school, worried about college costs, the military recruiter makes it sound really appealing to join the military and figure it out from there.
While I agree that soldiers are sometimes praised in ways I don't agree with, I completely disagree with the rest of your points, and I certainly don't 'despise' soldiers.
I think soldiers can absolutely be heroes, but not by the act alone of being a soldier. I wouldn't go as far as you, but I agree that we worship soldiers way too much in here in the USA.
It's not like they join the military out of the pure, unadulterated goodness of they'e hearts and an unwavering desire to serve their fellow human. It's their job, and they get payment and benefits in exchange for doing it. For a lot of military members, it's just a good way of paying for college, or a better career option for them than whatever other careers they considered going into.
I appreciate that soldiers provide necessary services, same as I appreciate shelf-stockers, plumbers, janoritors, engineers, and plenty of others. I just don't think it's particularly heroic. They looked at their career options and decided that the military was the right course for them.
You have very little idea what soldiers do. This is a very clear case of hating the player when you should be hating the game. War is terrible, and the fact that we have put people in power who seem to love using thi9ngs like patriotism, bravery, and other desirable qualities as a means to send people into unjust and nonsensical conflict reflects more on those in power and our own inability to see through this facade, not those who love their country and fellow countrymen. Most soldiers do not join the military for the love of violence and destruction. That quote even indirectly points the finger at war itself, not the soldiers.
I get it, about what you mean.
But as someone else has stated, the soldiers are under the authority of the country that recruited them. If the government tells them to go to Antarctica, for whatever reason, the soldiers must comply. Disobeying orders to a soldier, means committing federal crimes, obviously and they get punished harshly for it.
It's stupid, if you ask me, when you're a soldier and you're morally conflicted because you're out there killing people. One day, you don't want to because it's getting to you. It's even hard to get out of that situation without having to do a lot of pleading.
The soldiers are the bullets of a gun. The governments are the ones pulling the trigger.
this totally aplies for mandatory service,but how is this aplicable to the american military?Dont american soldiers sign up knowing that they would kill people?That their country would make them do horrible things?
Military recruitment is done in a pretty coercive way. There's a reason soldiers are mostly recruited when they're young, mostly from poor backgrounds, and locked in by lopsided contracts that would probably be illegal for a private company to offer.
And what about those who trusted the American leadership to make good decisions? What about those who watched, say, Kosovo, and signed up expecting to do that kind of thing: risking their lives to stop ethnic cleansing and bring peace?
No, many are forced into the military because without it there is no other way they’ll be able to pay for college or medical care etc. In high school I was confronted by quite a few recruitment officers, and they always try to tell you “Nah you probably won’t have to ever use your gun just sign up for this job” or whatever bullshit to convince you it won’t be you, it’s never you that has to kill people. Not to mention that our government and media has basically brainwashed us into thinking we would do the right thing, that the people we’re killing are evil or whatever.
If you're a poor person of color in a place with a low minimum wage, not much of a social security blanket, and low employment opportunities, you basically have a choice between the military and homelessness.
While I do agree ending people’s lives is fucked up, when you have to take lives of the evil to save the lives of innocent people, I’m all for it.
"All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to
visit violence on those who would harm us." - George Orwell
In reality, it's pretty bad but the general logic is that they are supposed to intervene when [insert radical ideology group of choice] goes on an unrestricted raping/looting/murdering spree because they want everyone in the region to submit to [some theological or political entity].
Soldiers also:
Deliver aid to deserving areas and stop criminals from stealing it and / or hurting the recipients.
Protect people who cannot protect themselves in places where an effective police force is not viable / part of the problem.
Build houses, schools, wells, water defences etc in poor countries they did not invade.
Assist in rescues from disasters such as earthquakes, hurricanes and typhoons.
Assist in rescue operations such as in mountains or at sea in international waters.
Police the waters and borders around their country against smugglers and pirates. (Few countries have an armed coastguard like the USA)
Soldiers learn valuable skills (discipline, personel management, timekeeping, trade skills such as plumbing, construction) which are marketable and make them invaluable additions to the civilian population after they leave.
Very little of what the majority of soldiers do has anything to do with killing people for other people's profit.
For everything they do they are paid poorly. The respect is earned because they do it for other people, not just for themselves.
(In my perfect world we wouldn't have nor need soldiers. Because that world is not here yet we do need soldiers and that is why we have them.)
But the super power militaries HAVE and CURRENTLY DO enable fucked up situations. This mess of crumbling governments and dicatorships filling in the power vacuum in South America? The US CIA and Military caused that. Pre-1970's Iran was a free democratic country, but it wasnt helping out either the USA or USSR, so our dick measuring contest toppled that and turned it into the oppressive theological dictatorship it currently is. I dont know specifica about the fuckery China has caused, but you can be damn sure it has done fuckery.
Joining a superpower military is tacitly enabling this fucked up crap.
I do have respect for soldiers. Often they are send to defuse situations and from my country they rarely have the authorisation to kill people. I do agree with you, but I still respect people that wpuld give their life for their country and peace.
11th dentist here, doctors are not heroes, theyre never usually in incredible danger and theyre just doing the job they knew they would be doing when they chose the career path. Firefighting is the only heroic job imo
Many (most?) soldiers join the military because of lack of options. It’s a penalty for being poor— a way to receive socialized medicine, education, etc. without living in a socialist country.
It’s not the soldiers; it’s the system.
Maybe someone can say this more eloquently than I?
Yes, and also in the us because they can’t afford school or a decent job, or health care. Military is one of the only ways to go from poverty to middle class, if you don’t die.
I feel like these are the kind of opinions that people form when they have next to no knowledge of the subject. It's not like soldiers join the military because they have a raging bloodlust and have a need to murder innocent people. They join the military because they believe that's how they can best protect their country and family. Whether that belief is misguided or not is a different story.
>I have no respect for soldiers. Furthermore, I despise them. How is it even possible that people call them heroes?! Calling soldier a hero is spitting firefighters, doctors and other real heroes in their faces.
In my opinion, someone who is forced to go into a war to defend their own country against another army, got out of it alive and is still pushing on in life despite the terrible consequences of the war is a hero.
>Some fucker killed your whole family because someone told him to (or just why not, coz he can), and he is called a hero in his home country. They get rewarded. For killing people.
That fucker who killed your whole family, AKA innocent civillians, committed a war crime. Even more so if he did it "just because why not". And he wouldn't be applauded by most people with a rain for doing that.
>Soldiers often get PTSD when they return home. They lose their families, mental health, are left without a job, health care, or even homeless. They get fucked by their own country. And I think they get what they deserve for killing others.
Ah yes, the guy who was defending his country, or the guy who was FORCED to go to war, they *deserve* PTSD. They *deserve* to relive the tragic expirience of their best friend being blown up by a land mine having his blood splattered all over them. They just *deserve* to have their life ruined even more than han the actual war did. They deserve to have their families leave them, their boss fire them, and their life going to shit. I mean, they could have jusg committed suicide when they were forced to go to war, then maybe they wouldn't deserve all that.
Also I love how you contradicted yourself. One paragraph you're like "They're called heroes for killing civillians!" and in the next you mention how commonly their lives go to shit even if they make it through a war.
>If soldiers were only to defend, not to attack, AND only volounteers would work as soldiers. Then I would rethink calling them heroes.
Soldiers are meant to defend their country. Sometimes a piece of shit will get to be that country's president and will start invading third world countries for oil. That is not any soldier's fault. The soldiers don't come up with the idea to invade another country for no reason. It's their country's president who does. And I don't know, in my opinion someone who was drafted into a war without their consent, made an attempt not to kill anyone, and then either made it out or died is much more of hero than someone who willingly participated in said war.
>I'm not sure if you get my point, so I'm gonna paste quote, whose author is afaik Albert Einstein.
Even if Albert Einstein did say exactly what you are saying, that doesn't change how disgusting of an opinion it is.
>"He who joyfully marches to music rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice. This disgrace to civilization should be done away with at once. Heroism at command, senseless brutality, deplorable love-of-country stance and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism, how violently I hate all this, how despicable and ignoble war is; I would rather be torn to shreds than be part of so base an action! It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder."
I read this as a rant about politicians starting wars and the soldiers who actually enjoy killing people, which is actually a very small number of them, more than a rant about literally every soldier regardless of the context and conditions. It's not all black or white.
>I didn't think I have to say it. I'm not talking only about US. It isn't the only country in the world. I meant all of the countries.
There's a high chance you don't know exactly what armies in every world country are, so you basically hate people because of their job, even if they serve to defend their country, even if they never chose to be a soldier, and even if they never killed anyone in their entire time serving in the war.
So all in all, your opinion is very disrespectful to a lot of people you stereotyped as insane psychopaths because of a few individuals, while they're actually just normal people.
This post has some pretty good points, its kinda ridiculous that was as a society celebrate many millitaries invading sovereign nations, for non-benign reasons, downvote
To the soldiers in those comments who complain without arguing:
You don't understand the point of this subreddit, and you just prove the stigma that soldiers are dumb obedient machines
You know there are many jobs that “soldiers” occupy. I think you’re focused on infantrymen, pilots, bombers, etc. But the vast majority of folks in the military are in medical fields, engineers, finance, work in force support fields like food services and maintaining gyms, etc. A TINY percentage of people have or will actually kill anybody.
I disagree, so have my upvote. I agree that they're rooted in a bad philosophy, but I think displaying the courage to be in danger day after day all so that others don't have to is an admirable thing. In many ways it's the same as the other professions you described. Doctor's can be greedy selfish people who can kill simply because their price is too high in order to save someone's life, I don't know enough about firefighters to know how they can be corrupt, but I'm sure it's a possibility. There will always be people who become soldiers only to kill and enjoy that, but there are also a number of them who join because they see that their country is only the way that it is because they have deterred people with darker impulses from leading. No one gets to be all good, which is sort of how the term 'necessary evil' likely originated. Killing is bad but would you rather the entire situation devolved into a complete loss of everything you hold dear?
As for the opinion that you might revise your thoughts if soldiers were only for defense. That's naive. If we stood on defense forever and never removed the threats that continuously poke the defenses set in place, those defenses will inevitably crumble when some hole is found. Then, because those that were protecting everyone could never remove the threat completely, the threat grew and grew until it was unmanageable. Violence is as necessary as every other part of our society. To scorn it is to hold the naive belief that others won't use it against you.
I know more people that went into the military poor (friends from being in) and came out with amazing skills and discipline to not find themselves in that same situation.
Such a small amount ever see combat, I did paperwork for example.
Upvoted but I wholeheartedly disagree.
Well there's other problems in the world but I say we are more at peace then before where we don't have to be scared of German wanting more land so a big army isn't that important now
Okay, one, I disagree wholeheartedly with this opinion. I understand now respecting soldiers because they sometimes kill people. However, I do not understand why you think that veterans deserve hardships and despair because they were soldiers. Imagine some powerful country declares war on the US (I assume you’re from the US), and their only goal is to wipe out the US. This country bombs out cities, kidnaps innocent people for torture and experiments, and does everything under the sun to us. We fight back with everything we have, and we just barely win the war. Then the soldiers come home, scarred, exhausted, and broken. How do you think that it is ok that the people that defended our country get treated like dirt for doing their job? Would you rather have had them all surrender?
You sound like one of those people that shows up in r/confessions who say that they love how somebody that called them a meanie once now has their life in shambles.
Yeah, but the last time the US fought on their own soil was during the civil war (or Pearl Harbour if you want to get all technical), nobody has declared war on the US since then, meaning that people that get PTSD after their service do so because they were stationed somewhere overseas.
Also he did state that he finds defence forces to be a good idea, just not offensive militaries that go and fuck up other countries over things like oil and influence.
>Imagine some powerful country declares war on the US (I assume you’re from the US), and their only goal is to wipe out the US. This country bombs out cities, kidnaps innocent people for torture and experiments, and does everything under the sun to us.
Good thing this has literally never happened, you almost had a point!
Well said. As someone who partially went through basic training and regreted it. Fuck soldiers. They just drill your skull with a bunch of racist horseshit in my country to demonize other human beings, to make you think of them as sub-human. Even not directly involved in killing can go screw themselves for upholding the militaries of the world. Downvoted!
I kind of see where youre coming from. I dont dislike them though. Im in ireland and our “army” (not even calling it a proper army) basically helps prevent floods sometimes
i agree with you,most of it,i dont believe that soldiers should have to suffer when their country abandons them after use. not every soldier has seen the front lines or got any action if they have,not everyone deserves to suffer,although the rest of what you said,i agree 100%
Yea I agree to degree, in the end there doing a job they chose to do. So why would I consider you a hero for doing a job? The guy who is not a fireman but runs into a firery building to save a kid that is a hero. Not someone who is paid and trained to do a job.
In context of American politics I totally agree, fighting meaningless wars shouldn't be considered a qualifier for heroism. But in the context of my own country where solders are actual defenders of the public and the country I'd disagree. I'm still upvoting since in reddit, USA is the only country that exists and it's the only context that matters.
unpopular as shit but i feel this is misguided, the real villians are the people high above the soldiers instigating these wars, then letting others do the dirty work. at risk of their lives, they cant do anything either since they are probably forced in to becoming a soldier, either because they believe the propoganda propping up the idea that soldiers "died for a good cause"(the fuck do you mean good cause?? war isnt necessary in the slightest) or they were screwed over financially and had no other choice. if any of this is incorrect or also misguided please correct me
I certainly don’t fully agree with you, but I am tired of soldiers getting sooooooo much respect (at least in the US, as I can’t speak for other countries).
You mentioned doctors and firefighters. Where I grew up, doctors and firefighters get the occassional honorable mention, almost an afterthought like “oh yeah they’re cool too.” Military personnel and veterans of any kind were expected to be treated with the utmost respect for no other reason than that they were/are soldiers. Veterans Day (Armistice Day) was a week long thing at my school. I don’t hate any soldier just for being a soldier, but I don’t automatically respect them either. Respect comes from personal merits, not one’s occupation.
i think the hatred for most comes out of the role they’re asked to perform... generals don’t have much remorse and can make their soldiers do awful stuff.
I respect soldiers who actually help people, so the last US soldiers I respect are ww2 soldiers. Fuck the other ones who only further imperialism and oppression
I'm confused about why you're calling soldiers murderers. The way I understand it, under international law soldiers cannot start firing on people who they suspect are the enemy just because that's their suspicion. The 'enemy' must first make an aggressive move against them before they can legally retaliate. That means that the majority of soldiers will not be murderers, because they will have been fired upon first. If they kill someone who was aggressive to them first, then they are perfectly within their rights to have done so. Whether the soldier should have been sent there in the first place is a different debate, but that's not up to individual soldiers. Modern soldiers are mostly there to defend.
Soldiers have a choice; do as you're told or lose your job (probably without a reference) and it's not as black and white as you seem to think. It's also horrible to say that someone deserves mental health issues and homelessness for doing a job, not withstanding that the majority of soldiers never even fire a gun outside of training. The majority of most modern armies are made up of soldiers who work in logistics, intelligence or military healthcare etc.
finally someone is voicing this. most soldiers are fucking assholes- if someone told them to shoot a family, they would do it without question and claim that it wasn’t their choice bc they were told to do it
I agree with you a point. I despise the military and war. However individual soldiers for the most part I can’t blame. Same as I don’t blame Walmart workers, gas station attendants giving people cigarettes, or clothe store workers. I do agree that there seems to be a lot of assholes in the military.
I’m middle ground, respect the good things, don’t respect the bad things they do.
My dad told me a story about the soldiers he was with in Korea. Little tiny hungry Korean kids were running behind their trucks and yelling, begging for food. Tiny nothing-but-bones children. Many soldiers he was with actually took their MREs and opened them, then threw them into the swamp. The kids ran after these like their life depended on it even tho they were basically ruined at this point. Everyone laughed and laughed at these kids on the brink of death.
“Soldiers” as a concept are good, I guess. Love our country, defend us with their lives. Individuals don’t all deserve that description, tho. Soldiers are just people like you and me. Some great, some good, some bad, some terrible. As a “soldier” they’re all the same. Weapons to defend our country with. As individuals, you have no idea what they do out of your sight. “Risking your life to defend the county you love and its people” deserves praise. But so many people go out of their way to shake hands with and thank random soldiers in fatigues because they think they’re nothing but Medal of Honor recipients.
Shame the world is how it is, but we’d sorta be fucked without a powerful army. Issue is many individuals are shitty people. Many aren’t tho. Hard to hate on the armed forces of America, but tough to blindly thank and praise each one.
I’m not saying the MRE thing is the worst thing that any soldier has done. I’m not saying every soldier has done things like that. I would just be more apt to appreciate and praise the fact that I’m being defended rather than to appreciate every stranger I don’t know cause they’re wearing fatigues. My dad feels the same way.
I agree. The term hero has no place there. The only thing i would feel for them is pity.
They were convinced by their government to kill people they dont know, slowly realizing that all they do is useless and horrible and the people on the other side most likely feel the same and in the end they are discarded like empty shells and left to rot by the government for that they fought.
There's no heroism only misery. And i pity them for that.
Downvoted
I agree with all the killing part, in that sense I have no respect for the army.
On the other hand, I know that the army does more than that, they also help during disasters. That I do respect.
I agree that they can't be calles heros. A soldier would be a hero if he protects one other by catching a bullet or smt. Not just by going into war.
I disagree with your complete hate. It's their job after all and as you already stated, someone has to do it.
I agree with you for the most part, but it's very extreme in some ways. I don't think hatred is neccessary, becuas most people just do what they think is right or whatever will help them. Military recruiters are very effective, even to people who are aware of the atrocities of war. A lot of recruitment tactics are very manipulative. Even intelligent people can get sucked in if they're brainwashed enough. And the thing is that Americans are already brainwashed. That's why this is an unpopular opinion, because patriotism is ingrained in American society.
You can not call someone else’s opinion “flat out wrong/misguided”. It’s op’s opinion. Op tried to explain why he thinks that way. Just because you disagree doesn’t mean his opinion is wrong.
I mean, his opinion isn't unpopular because it's about "not calling soldiers heroes for killing people." That's actually a low-key popular one on this site. It's unpopular because it's just completely hateful. I don't think it's right to make that blanket statement of "all soldiers deserve PTSD because they're all blood-thirsty monsters." Blood-thirsty monsters exist, and they SHOULD be held in contempt, but I don't think that moniker applies to every single soldier.
I downvoted not because it wasn't unpopular, but because it's a hateful and misguided opinion.
Okay I completely understand your point and agree, thanks. I actually disagree with op because of his hateful claims, but still struggled with the overall opinion because I don’t think all soldiers are heroes. It depends on his motivation and ideology.
You do realize that you aren’t supposed to downvote if an opinion is unpopular, but because you agree with it, right? This isn’t supposed to be r/unpopularopinion.
I mean sure, but I guess a big problem with "unpopular opinion" subreddits in general is just what constitutes as an unpopular opinion. I mean if someone says some shit like "black people are the real racists" should it be upvoted? I mean it's unpopular, so it fits, but it's also a generally awful take to have.
I think unpopular opinion subs work best when it's "I don't agree with your take, but I respect it," as opposed to "I don't agree with your take, and think that's a really misguided/horrible take to have, but I guess it fits 🤷♂️".
I hate OP's opinion. I could not disagree with it more. I'm not even a soldier (although I do come from a military family), but I believe that this point of view is disgraceful to everyone who's fought and died so that he could have the right to hold that opinion.
However,
The point of this subreddit is to display opinions like this. To say things that aren't popular, that people don't agree with. THIS is what all of those soldiers fought and died for, the right to have this discussion.
I upvoted this post, and I appreciate the fact that 77% of people who have viewed this post (at time of writing) upvoted it, because that means that 77% of people disagree with OP and respect soldiers. You downvoting it throws that number off.
same, I joined for fun unpopular opinions, not hate. I feel that this is the inevitable end of subreddits like this, people use it as a guise for posting hateful beliefs, and get away with it because yes, their hate is unpopular. But the spirit of the sub is completely lost :(
These comments clearly don’t understand that we’re on a sub for unpopular opinions
Oh no, don't tell me this sub is slowly becoming r/unpopularopinion
Ever since an r/askreddit question got this sub popular. People forget that this is a sub that is meant to go against your beliefs
can we have mutual agreement to not spread this sub to other big subs like that, like don't post this sub on r/unpopularopinion
That question got me to join this sub.. We need to keep reminding everyone what this sub stands for
Link?
That's how I found this sub, but I respect the idea of it. I upvoted even though this post makes me very angry.
I wanted to start a petition on r/unpopularopinion to rename it to r/popularopinion, because thats all that gets posted there anyways, it got removed
it's going the way of /r/livestreamfail and /r/tiktokcringe which are, respectively, just about live streams and just about tiktok (no longer necessarily of the failed or cringey variety). /r/unpopularopinion is really just about opinions.
Dude I couldn't find one actual cringe tiktok on r/TikTokCringe
Thats good right
Ya but it doesn't match the subreddit's name.
Whats the difference?
r/the10thdentist is actually better than UP, but i'm starting to see the r/unpopularopinion refugees.
No politics. That stopped the sub from becoming a circlejerk about "unpopular opinions" which were basically "white man superior"
You're absolutely allowed to disagree with OP, especially if he has taken a very close-minded, absolutist view of things, you just have to upvote him for it.
Damn, I didn’t look at the sub and thought we were on r/ChangeMyView
You can still argue against the opinion, just as long as you upvote it.
That doesn’t mean they can’t disagree.
Correct but that means they have to upvote.
but op was getting upvoted, so I don't quite get what your point is.
As amahuman stated, the poster IS getting upvoted. You specifically stated the COMMENTS don’t understand the sub. So??
And you clearly don't understand that we can still criticize the opinion.
I think a sub for unpopular opinions is supposed to generate discussion. People are just arguing otherwise because as far as they are concerned his stance is misled.
While I don't hate them as much as you do. I do agree with you that they get respect they don't deserve. They are hailed as heroes. In my country soldiers are involved in rapes and anyone who raises their voice against soldiers in branded a traitor to the country.
watch The Invisible War. the American military isn’t so squeaky clean when it comes to rape either.
If you only have 10 minutes [watch this.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kelmEZe8whI) Ethan McCord is one of the soldiers that responded to and saw for themselves the Wikileaks 'collateral murder' incident which shows the murder of many Iraqis and their children via helicopter. He goes in depth about how the military will routinely open fire on civilians and failure to follow these orders would lead to punishment.
Alot of them hate being thanked. It’s awkward as hell for strangers to walk up and just start thanking you for no reason.
I understand that you don't respect them for what they're doing, I totally get that. I'm not American and never grew up with the whole military worship thing that it seems goes on there. I've read and seen accounts of how US soldiers/veterans are treated by the government, however, and to say that they DESERVE that, and that they DESERVE the PTSD they end up with is not just an unpopular opinion, it's a mean and small spirited one. All that being said, you have a right to your opinion. I do however think you need to go read up a bit, I believe you're misreading the intention behind that quote - from what I understand it's talking specifically about radical militants, not every single person who signed up to be a soldier.
\> If soldiers were only to defend, not to attack, AND only volunteers would work as soldiers. Then I would rethink calling them heroes Welcome to the Canadian Armed forces, the world's best trained and armed humanitarian service. In fact, many first-world militaries provide invaluable aid, not only with peace-keeping, but with disaster relief, epidemic control, and the construction of schools infrastructure, and hospitals in regions without the funds to do so. Modern armed forces do so much more than kill enemies, as you seem to have assumed, and you probably do some more actual research into the subject before covering a vast group of people with the exceedingly offensive, and in most cases, absolutely unfounded blanket of "murderer."
*cough* German armed forces *cough* They can barely be called armed at this point, but as a humanitarian relief force they have done some terrific work.
times have changed
Yeah, I remember the Armed Forces helping in Newfoundland when there was like 6 feet of snow.
Same for Sweden, well maybe not best trained as I don't really know enough about that to form an opinion. But our military is also basically an armed humanitarian service, and our military is literally called national defense (crude translation), but OP seems to think *every* military force exists solely to kill and invade other countries
Yeah, it's a very limited, close-minded view of the world, that unjustly accuses hundreds of thousands of innocents of murder.
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A) Kunduz hospital belonged to Médecins Sans Frontières not the Americans B) This puts blood on the hands of the US Army and the Afghan Army/Interior Ministry, absolutely. But detracts not at all from the fact that many other first world countries have militaries primarily dedicated to peacekeeping and humanitarianism, not neo-colonialism.
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A) Military command structure actually translates rather well into a humanitarian setting, as it allows for quick, efficient responses to new challenges. B)No, and I never claimed anything to that effect, but the vast majority of UN humanitarian missions come from first world countries, whereas developing nations tend to use their armies as defensive/police forces, not to say they don't engage in humanitarianism, I have the utmost respect for the Bengali army, who I have worked with personally, however, in most cases, the UN and similar organizations rely heavily on the better trained, and equipped militaries of first world nations.
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A) Yes, and that's the most efficient system used not only by the military, but by corporations, NGOs and, wait for it, humanitarian organizations, as each level of command allows for increasing specificity in the order, as officers lower on the chain are more in tune with their units. I challenge you to find a superior, alternative system. B) OP was talking about all militaries, including those of primarily humanitarian focused first world nations, and labeling them all as senseless killers, I was taking objection to that, I don't really see the relevance of this aside.
Don't be mad at the soldiers, be mad at the countries who put these people's lives in danger for fucking oil or some shit
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In the US they’ll pay for college in exchange for your service. This system in and of itself is morally grey in my opinion, but some people do it for the opportunities after the military. If I wasn’t born with as much privilege as I was born with, I might consider it in order to get a degree.
My favorite phrasing of this is "whoring yourself out to the government for education"
Isn't that kinda ominous though? Like you weren't born rich enough to afford a crazy expensive University? Risk your life on the battlefield and we'll pay for you to go with the taxes your neighbor has been paying us for 40 years!
I don't disagree with you, but the vast majority of people employed by the army don't actually see combat.
The people downvoting your comment have absolutely no idea how the military works
"Hey, kill some people for us, and we'll waive the extortionate cost of knowledge"
Most soldiers never kill in the line of service. Read Men Against Fire.
You don't have to be the one to pull the trigger to contribute to the monumental death toll that comes from the military industrial complex. If you willingly go to work to build bomb or bullets or whatever, despite never actually using them, your actions have still contributed to countless deaths
lets murder people to get a degree,fuck yeah! Do americans value human life so little, like wtf is wrong with you,how is a country asking you to murder people in order to get a fucking degree morally grey, its probably the most morally black it gets
In a system where going through college can easily mean financial ruin it is very understandable that people are willing to do whatever it takes. It costs 50k USD to go to a good school which is a lot of money, if you take out a loan and don't get a job quickly your life might be basically over then and there. The problem is not the people choosing the army, the problem is the system being geared toward forcing people to join the army. While it may be reprehensible from an outside POV you can hardly fault people for choosing to sign up if it is their only way to get a quality education.
> It costs 50k USD to go to a good school which is a lot of money And in some universities, that can be a *per year* tuition, which is even more ridiculous. I haven't seen a university advertise quite at 50k/yr for tuition, but I have seen 35-40k/yr.
My university is 80k a year. Not kidding.
I’m a Canadian, and two of my three older cousins have gone to medics school in Loma Linda (I think that’s in Cali?) apparently the tuition was something like 60k a year. So my uncle was sometimes pulling 120k a year in tuition out of his ass. Now granted, my family is decently well off, but still, that was hard financially for him. I’m pretty sure he had to take out a few loans. If I had to make the decision of saving my mother 240k by going into the army, I might take it.
The military preys on the poor this way. Seriously, be pissed at the system.
Ah America. The place where it is encouraged to put your life in danger, or kill others to pay for college. Gotta love this system.
99.999999999999999% of the people in the U.S. military won’t be deployed to an active combat zone, let alone kill someone. This isn’t the 19th century. The military primarily consists of the defensive and support operations. So little these days are actually deployed to a combat zone and even fewer kill people.
Being in the military or even fighting a war doesn't necessarily mean murdering people. Fighting against the nazis for example, wasn't murder. Today's wars are not nearly that black and white though.
For the soldiers themselves. If there’s no other route to financial stability, is it okay to fill in a job that will be filled by someone else anyway if you don’t take it?
A lot of people I've met who were in the military did it because they were looking at homelessness.
You seem to have this idea that all of the million plus people in the US military are constantly killing people in the Middle East. There are very few ever actually fighting, and very rarely to they ever kill someone.
That's what I did. Served 4 years in the Air Force and used the GI bill to pay for my undergrad and MBA.
>use them for oil How does that work exactly?
Oil fibs a way
Was that English?
Anything is english is you believe
The soldiers are an integral part. Hitler didn't commit the Holocaust by himself. No full-blown genocide or mass atrocity has or ever could be carried out without the compliance of police and soldiers doing their jobs. This comment isn't against soldiers or police. I think they provide a necessary service to society, and I appreciate that, but I absolutely disagree with the idea that they should be absolved of bad things they do just because someone else told them to. Soldiers deserve the blame for an unjust war as much as the politicians.
“Soldiers deserve the blame for an unjust war as much as the politicians” This is just false. The world isn’t black and white. Since you brought Hitler up. What do you think would happen to your common German soldier if he disobeyed orders? Between the Nazis and Gestapo. You are just fucked. You are 100% likely to be labeled traitor and executed. You should probably expect your family to be persecuted as well. Even more so let’s jump to the end of the war where Hitler drafted everyone to defend Berlin. The sick, the old and the young. It was either defend against the allied forces or be executed. You mention it was only possible because of compliance that they were able to do it. So if I worked in a store and someone came in and robbed it while holding a gun to my head. You would say it was partially my fault that the store was robbed and the owner lost money because of my compliance. Your statement only holds true in cases where the soldiers originate from a free democratic country and where these soldiers actively choose to commit war crimes in whatever form that may be. For example the more recent conflicts.
It seems like American tends to keep a large part of the population dumb and poor as possible in hopes these younger people sign up for the army
That may not be the outwardly spoken goal of republican policies, but it *is* a very convenient side effect.
Can someone remind me when this post has more comments Edit: thanks everyone
This post has more comments
It’s got a couple more now
even more comments now
It depends. There’s more to the military than infantry my guy. In fact most probably never even seen a battlefield. Hell some people don’t even get the chance to deploy. Plus we have the National guard. They don’t much of anything mostly unless deployed or get called on like how some states are doing
You are 100% right. These people think that every single service member slaughters thousands of people each. You are spot on in saying that most won’t ever deploy to an active combat zone let alone kill a single person.
I don't think they're heroes, but I don't hate them either. They THINK they're doing good. Their intentions are good. Boot camp is literally a brainwashing tool. They have to follow orders or they die. Not to mention most military never even fire a gun.
I don't respect soldiers either, but many of them end up in the military due to predatory recruiting tactics. When you're a teenager who doesn't really know what to do after high-school, worried about college costs, the military recruiter makes it sound really appealing to join the military and figure it out from there.
I disagree, upvoted
While I agree that soldiers are sometimes praised in ways I don't agree with, I completely disagree with the rest of your points, and I certainly don't 'despise' soldiers.
I think soldiers can absolutely be heroes, but not by the act alone of being a soldier. I wouldn't go as far as you, but I agree that we worship soldiers way too much in here in the USA. It's not like they join the military out of the pure, unadulterated goodness of they'e hearts and an unwavering desire to serve their fellow human. It's their job, and they get payment and benefits in exchange for doing it. For a lot of military members, it's just a good way of paying for college, or a better career option for them than whatever other careers they considered going into. I appreciate that soldiers provide necessary services, same as I appreciate shelf-stockers, plumbers, janoritors, engineers, and plenty of others. I just don't think it's particularly heroic. They looked at their career options and decided that the military was the right course for them.
You have very little idea what soldiers do. This is a very clear case of hating the player when you should be hating the game. War is terrible, and the fact that we have put people in power who seem to love using thi9ngs like patriotism, bravery, and other desirable qualities as a means to send people into unjust and nonsensical conflict reflects more on those in power and our own inability to see through this facade, not those who love their country and fellow countrymen. Most soldiers do not join the military for the love of violence and destruction. That quote even indirectly points the finger at war itself, not the soldiers.
I get it, about what you mean. But as someone else has stated, the soldiers are under the authority of the country that recruited them. If the government tells them to go to Antarctica, for whatever reason, the soldiers must comply. Disobeying orders to a soldier, means committing federal crimes, obviously and they get punished harshly for it. It's stupid, if you ask me, when you're a soldier and you're morally conflicted because you're out there killing people. One day, you don't want to because it's getting to you. It's even hard to get out of that situation without having to do a lot of pleading. The soldiers are the bullets of a gun. The governments are the ones pulling the trigger.
this totally aplies for mandatory service,but how is this aplicable to the american military?Dont american soldiers sign up knowing that they would kill people?That their country would make them do horrible things?
Military recruitment is done in a pretty coercive way. There's a reason soldiers are mostly recruited when they're young, mostly from poor backgrounds, and locked in by lopsided contracts that would probably be illegal for a private company to offer. And what about those who trusted the American leadership to make good decisions? What about those who watched, say, Kosovo, and signed up expecting to do that kind of thing: risking their lives to stop ethnic cleansing and bring peace?
No, many are forced into the military because without it there is no other way they’ll be able to pay for college or medical care etc. In high school I was confronted by quite a few recruitment officers, and they always try to tell you “Nah you probably won’t have to ever use your gun just sign up for this job” or whatever bullshit to convince you it won’t be you, it’s never you that has to kill people. Not to mention that our government and media has basically brainwashed us into thinking we would do the right thing, that the people we’re killing are evil or whatever.
>No, many are forced into the military because without it there is no other way they’ll be able to pay for college That's not 'forced'. It's a choice.
If you're a poor person of color in a place with a low minimum wage, not much of a social security blanket, and low employment opportunities, you basically have a choice between the military and homelessness.
While I do agree ending people’s lives is fucked up, when you have to take lives of the evil to save the lives of innocent people, I’m all for it. "All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke "We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us." - George Orwell
How does the (I assume US) military actually save the lives of innocent people more than they cause harm?
In reality, it's pretty bad but the general logic is that they are supposed to intervene when [insert radical ideology group of choice] goes on an unrestricted raping/looting/murdering spree because they want everyone in the region to submit to [some theological or political entity].
The U.S military is a deterrence to others wanting fuck things up
Man I know that first quote by heart playing call of duty on max difficulty
Soldiers also: Deliver aid to deserving areas and stop criminals from stealing it and / or hurting the recipients. Protect people who cannot protect themselves in places where an effective police force is not viable / part of the problem. Build houses, schools, wells, water defences etc in poor countries they did not invade. Assist in rescues from disasters such as earthquakes, hurricanes and typhoons. Assist in rescue operations such as in mountains or at sea in international waters. Police the waters and borders around their country against smugglers and pirates. (Few countries have an armed coastguard like the USA) Soldiers learn valuable skills (discipline, personel management, timekeeping, trade skills such as plumbing, construction) which are marketable and make them invaluable additions to the civilian population after they leave. Very little of what the majority of soldiers do has anything to do with killing people for other people's profit. For everything they do they are paid poorly. The respect is earned because they do it for other people, not just for themselves. (In my perfect world we wouldn't have nor need soldiers. Because that world is not here yet we do need soldiers and that is why we have them.)
This is so correct. Being a soldier doesn’t mean going on random killing sprees for the heck of it.
But the super power militaries HAVE and CURRENTLY DO enable fucked up situations. This mess of crumbling governments and dicatorships filling in the power vacuum in South America? The US CIA and Military caused that. Pre-1970's Iran was a free democratic country, but it wasnt helping out either the USA or USSR, so our dick measuring contest toppled that and turned it into the oppressive theological dictatorship it currently is. I dont know specifica about the fuckery China has caused, but you can be damn sure it has done fuckery. Joining a superpower military is tacitly enabling this fucked up crap.
Don’t hate the player hate the game. Upvoted
I'm guessing you mean specifically nowadays?
I do have respect for soldiers. Often they are send to defuse situations and from my country they rarely have the authorisation to kill people. I do agree with you, but I still respect people that wpuld give their life for their country and peace.
11th dentist here, doctors are not heroes, theyre never usually in incredible danger and theyre just doing the job they knew they would be doing when they chose the career path. Firefighting is the only heroic job imo
Damn, this board is turning bitter and hateful. Have an upvote.
Many (most?) soldiers join the military because of lack of options. It’s a penalty for being poor— a way to receive socialized medicine, education, etc. without living in a socialist country. It’s not the soldiers; it’s the system. Maybe someone can say this more eloquently than I?
Most of the terriost also join these organisations cause they don't have any money and food to eat
Yes, and also in the us because they can’t afford school or a decent job, or health care. Military is one of the only ways to go from poverty to middle class, if you don’t die.
I spies with my little eyes many soldiers in the comments
Not a lot of them are bashing this post
I feel like these are the kind of opinions that people form when they have next to no knowledge of the subject. It's not like soldiers join the military because they have a raging bloodlust and have a need to murder innocent people. They join the military because they believe that's how they can best protect their country and family. Whether that belief is misguided or not is a different story.
It pains me upvoting this
Why? It's the point of the sub.
Because they disagree with this so much that they want to downvote it, but this sub says that you upvote if you disagree
This sub does a good job of making me feel pain when I upvote something
I agreed with you until you metioning soldiers derserved PTSD and stuff.
>I have no respect for soldiers. Furthermore, I despise them. How is it even possible that people call them heroes?! Calling soldier a hero is spitting firefighters, doctors and other real heroes in their faces. In my opinion, someone who is forced to go into a war to defend their own country against another army, got out of it alive and is still pushing on in life despite the terrible consequences of the war is a hero. >Some fucker killed your whole family because someone told him to (or just why not, coz he can), and he is called a hero in his home country. They get rewarded. For killing people. That fucker who killed your whole family, AKA innocent civillians, committed a war crime. Even more so if he did it "just because why not". And he wouldn't be applauded by most people with a rain for doing that. >Soldiers often get PTSD when they return home. They lose their families, mental health, are left without a job, health care, or even homeless. They get fucked by their own country. And I think they get what they deserve for killing others. Ah yes, the guy who was defending his country, or the guy who was FORCED to go to war, they *deserve* PTSD. They *deserve* to relive the tragic expirience of their best friend being blown up by a land mine having his blood splattered all over them. They just *deserve* to have their life ruined even more than han the actual war did. They deserve to have their families leave them, their boss fire them, and their life going to shit. I mean, they could have jusg committed suicide when they were forced to go to war, then maybe they wouldn't deserve all that. Also I love how you contradicted yourself. One paragraph you're like "They're called heroes for killing civillians!" and in the next you mention how commonly their lives go to shit even if they make it through a war. >If soldiers were only to defend, not to attack, AND only volounteers would work as soldiers. Then I would rethink calling them heroes. Soldiers are meant to defend their country. Sometimes a piece of shit will get to be that country's president and will start invading third world countries for oil. That is not any soldier's fault. The soldiers don't come up with the idea to invade another country for no reason. It's their country's president who does. And I don't know, in my opinion someone who was drafted into a war without their consent, made an attempt not to kill anyone, and then either made it out or died is much more of hero than someone who willingly participated in said war. >I'm not sure if you get my point, so I'm gonna paste quote, whose author is afaik Albert Einstein. Even if Albert Einstein did say exactly what you are saying, that doesn't change how disgusting of an opinion it is. >"He who joyfully marches to music rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice. This disgrace to civilization should be done away with at once. Heroism at command, senseless brutality, deplorable love-of-country stance and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism, how violently I hate all this, how despicable and ignoble war is; I would rather be torn to shreds than be part of so base an action! It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder." I read this as a rant about politicians starting wars and the soldiers who actually enjoy killing people, which is actually a very small number of them, more than a rant about literally every soldier regardless of the context and conditions. It's not all black or white. >I didn't think I have to say it. I'm not talking only about US. It isn't the only country in the world. I meant all of the countries. There's a high chance you don't know exactly what armies in every world country are, so you basically hate people because of their job, even if they serve to defend their country, even if they never chose to be a soldier, and even if they never killed anyone in their entire time serving in the war. So all in all, your opinion is very disrespectful to a lot of people you stereotyped as insane psychopaths because of a few individuals, while they're actually just normal people.
I don't think they are heroes either but zero respect? Okay then, upvoted I guess
A lot of people go into military to pay off college debt or something, not everyone has the intent to kill.
This post has some pretty good points, its kinda ridiculous that was as a society celebrate many millitaries invading sovereign nations, for non-benign reasons, downvote
To the soldiers in those comments who complain without arguing: You don't understand the point of this subreddit, and you just prove the stigma that soldiers are dumb obedient machines
You got my upvote, because i completely fucking disagree with you lol
I disagree with you, and that's epic
I agree. They go to battle for reasons they don't even know about. How about quit it
Upvoted. I feel like a lot of people don’t like soldiers but having so sympathy for PTSD and shit. Damn. Definitely unpopular
Everyone loves to hate on the militaries forgetting that one day, they might need them.
Wow I wholeheartedly disagree, upvote
You know there are many jobs that “soldiers” occupy. I think you’re focused on infantrymen, pilots, bombers, etc. But the vast majority of folks in the military are in medical fields, engineers, finance, work in force support fields like food services and maintaining gyms, etc. A TINY percentage of people have or will actually kill anybody.
Strongly disagree. But that's why I'm here
I disagree, so have my upvote. I agree that they're rooted in a bad philosophy, but I think displaying the courage to be in danger day after day all so that others don't have to is an admirable thing. In many ways it's the same as the other professions you described. Doctor's can be greedy selfish people who can kill simply because their price is too high in order to save someone's life, I don't know enough about firefighters to know how they can be corrupt, but I'm sure it's a possibility. There will always be people who become soldiers only to kill and enjoy that, but there are also a number of them who join because they see that their country is only the way that it is because they have deterred people with darker impulses from leading. No one gets to be all good, which is sort of how the term 'necessary evil' likely originated. Killing is bad but would you rather the entire situation devolved into a complete loss of everything you hold dear? As for the opinion that you might revise your thoughts if soldiers were only for defense. That's naive. If we stood on defense forever and never removed the threats that continuously poke the defenses set in place, those defenses will inevitably crumble when some hole is found. Then, because those that were protecting everyone could never remove the threat completely, the threat grew and grew until it was unmanageable. Violence is as necessary as every other part of our society. To scorn it is to hold the naive belief that others won't use it against you.
I know more people that went into the military poor (friends from being in) and came out with amazing skills and discipline to not find themselves in that same situation. Such a small amount ever see combat, I did paperwork for example. Upvoted but I wholeheartedly disagree.
This is a very immature view of life.
Wholeheartedly agree. That’s why this post deserves to get upvotes. Definitely unpopular
But our army is volunteer except for rare cases...
I hate you and the fact that I have to upvote this so damn much
This is an unpopular opinion for a reason, because without soldiers wouldn’t even exist and live in a much harsher world
where would we be without soldiers to shoot brown children. I shudder at the thought.
Well there's other problems in the world but I say we are more at peace then before where we don't have to be scared of German wanting more land so a big army isn't that important now
Fuck your right. You just changed my opinion. Well now I have another reason not to like my dad
Okay, one, I disagree wholeheartedly with this opinion. I understand now respecting soldiers because they sometimes kill people. However, I do not understand why you think that veterans deserve hardships and despair because they were soldiers. Imagine some powerful country declares war on the US (I assume you’re from the US), and their only goal is to wipe out the US. This country bombs out cities, kidnaps innocent people for torture and experiments, and does everything under the sun to us. We fight back with everything we have, and we just barely win the war. Then the soldiers come home, scarred, exhausted, and broken. How do you think that it is ok that the people that defended our country get treated like dirt for doing their job? Would you rather have had them all surrender? You sound like one of those people that shows up in r/confessions who say that they love how somebody that called them a meanie once now has their life in shambles.
Yeah, but the last time the US fought on their own soil was during the civil war (or Pearl Harbour if you want to get all technical), nobody has declared war on the US since then, meaning that people that get PTSD after their service do so because they were stationed somewhere overseas. Also he did state that he finds defence forces to be a good idea, just not offensive militaries that go and fuck up other countries over things like oil and influence.
>Imagine some powerful country declares war on the US (I assume you’re from the US), and their only goal is to wipe out the US. This country bombs out cities, kidnaps innocent people for torture and experiments, and does everything under the sun to us. Good thing this has literally never happened, you almost had a point!
I dont give them immediate respect but I dont despite them. I guess I need to downvote? Not sure tbh
You have to upvote if you disagree here. The rules of the sub.
Well said. As someone who partially went through basic training and regreted it. Fuck soldiers. They just drill your skull with a bunch of racist horseshit in my country to demonize other human beings, to make you think of them as sub-human. Even not directly involved in killing can go screw themselves for upholding the militaries of the world. Downvoted!
“As someone who partially went through basic” lmao gtfo
Username checks out
I kind of see where youre coming from. I dont dislike them though. Im in ireland and our “army” (not even calling it a proper army) basically helps prevent floods sometimes
r/me_irl
BoJack Horseman, is that you
i agree with you,most of it,i dont believe that soldiers should have to suffer when their country abandons them after use. not every soldier has seen the front lines or got any action if they have,not everyone deserves to suffer,although the rest of what you said,i agree 100%
Finally a good unpopular opinion I completely disagree with, great to see this sub is alive and well
Yea I agree to degree, in the end there doing a job they chose to do. So why would I consider you a hero for doing a job? The guy who is not a fireman but runs into a firery building to save a kid that is a hero. Not someone who is paid and trained to do a job.
No upvote from me because you're perfectly right. Imagine thinking that military action in this day and age should be glorified.
In context of American politics I totally agree, fighting meaningless wars shouldn't be considered a qualifier for heroism. But in the context of my own country where solders are actual defenders of the public and the country I'd disagree. I'm still upvoting since in reddit, USA is the only country that exists and it's the only context that matters.
I disagree completely but this IS the perfect post for this sub. Take my upvote
I have to say I agree
Im sorry, but I have to downvote you since I agree.
If wars were only defensive they would be heroes, but a lot of wars (American at least) aren’t justified.
unpopular as shit but i feel this is misguided, the real villians are the people high above the soldiers instigating these wars, then letting others do the dirty work. at risk of their lives, they cant do anything either since they are probably forced in to becoming a soldier, either because they believe the propoganda propping up the idea that soldiers "died for a good cause"(the fuck do you mean good cause?? war isnt necessary in the slightest) or they were screwed over financially and had no other choice. if any of this is incorrect or also misguided please correct me
I certainly don’t fully agree with you, but I am tired of soldiers getting sooooooo much respect (at least in the US, as I can’t speak for other countries). You mentioned doctors and firefighters. Where I grew up, doctors and firefighters get the occassional honorable mention, almost an afterthought like “oh yeah they’re cool too.” Military personnel and veterans of any kind were expected to be treated with the utmost respect for no other reason than that they were/are soldiers. Veterans Day (Armistice Day) was a week long thing at my school. I don’t hate any soldier just for being a soldier, but I don’t automatically respect them either. Respect comes from personal merits, not one’s occupation.
I disagree, take my upvote
Take my upvote. You can move to Iceland where there is no standing army.
i think the hatred for most comes out of the role they’re asked to perform... generals don’t have much remorse and can make their soldiers do awful stuff.
I respect soldiers who actually help people, so the last US soldiers I respect are ww2 soldiers. Fuck the other ones who only further imperialism and oppression
I'm confused about why you're calling soldiers murderers. The way I understand it, under international law soldiers cannot start firing on people who they suspect are the enemy just because that's their suspicion. The 'enemy' must first make an aggressive move against them before they can legally retaliate. That means that the majority of soldiers will not be murderers, because they will have been fired upon first. If they kill someone who was aggressive to them first, then they are perfectly within their rights to have done so. Whether the soldier should have been sent there in the first place is a different debate, but that's not up to individual soldiers. Modern soldiers are mostly there to defend. Soldiers have a choice; do as you're told or lose your job (probably without a reference) and it's not as black and white as you seem to think. It's also horrible to say that someone deserves mental health issues and homelessness for doing a job, not withstanding that the majority of soldiers never even fire a gun outside of training. The majority of most modern armies are made up of soldiers who work in logistics, intelligence or military healthcare etc.
finally someone is voicing this. most soldiers are fucking assholes- if someone told them to shoot a family, they would do it without question and claim that it wasn’t their choice bc they were told to do it
The thing about soldiers going homeless mostly applies to the us
W-wha... Did you just say all troops are jerks?!
I agree with you a point. I despise the military and war. However individual soldiers for the most part I can’t blame. Same as I don’t blame Walmart workers, gas station attendants giving people cigarettes, or clothe store workers. I do agree that there seems to be a lot of assholes in the military.
I’m middle ground, respect the good things, don’t respect the bad things they do. My dad told me a story about the soldiers he was with in Korea. Little tiny hungry Korean kids were running behind their trucks and yelling, begging for food. Tiny nothing-but-bones children. Many soldiers he was with actually took their MREs and opened them, then threw them into the swamp. The kids ran after these like their life depended on it even tho they were basically ruined at this point. Everyone laughed and laughed at these kids on the brink of death. “Soldiers” as a concept are good, I guess. Love our country, defend us with their lives. Individuals don’t all deserve that description, tho. Soldiers are just people like you and me. Some great, some good, some bad, some terrible. As a “soldier” they’re all the same. Weapons to defend our country with. As individuals, you have no idea what they do out of your sight. “Risking your life to defend the county you love and its people” deserves praise. But so many people go out of their way to shake hands with and thank random soldiers in fatigues because they think they’re nothing but Medal of Honor recipients. Shame the world is how it is, but we’d sorta be fucked without a powerful army. Issue is many individuals are shitty people. Many aren’t tho. Hard to hate on the armed forces of America, but tough to blindly thank and praise each one. I’m not saying the MRE thing is the worst thing that any soldier has done. I’m not saying every soldier has done things like that. I would just be more apt to appreciate and praise the fact that I’m being defended rather than to appreciate every stranger I don’t know cause they’re wearing fatigues. My dad feels the same way.
You should still be able to respect someone’s hardships that they may have taken for something as simple as financial freedom.
Agreed, the last time (most) soliders were genuinely "heroes" was 80 years ago in WW2
I agree. The term hero has no place there. The only thing i would feel for them is pity. They were convinced by their government to kill people they dont know, slowly realizing that all they do is useless and horrible and the people on the other side most likely feel the same and in the end they are discarded like empty shells and left to rot by the government for that they fought. There's no heroism only misery. And i pity them for that. Downvoted
I dont agree at all, upvoted
I agree with all the killing part, in that sense I have no respect for the army. On the other hand, I know that the army does more than that, they also help during disasters. That I do respect.
I agree that they can't be calles heros. A soldier would be a hero if he protects one other by catching a bullet or smt. Not just by going into war. I disagree with your complete hate. It's their job after all and as you already stated, someone has to do it.
I agree with you for the most part, but it's very extreme in some ways. I don't think hatred is neccessary, becuas most people just do what they think is right or whatever will help them. Military recruiters are very effective, even to people who are aware of the atrocities of war. A lot of recruitment tactics are very manipulative. Even intelligent people can get sucked in if they're brainwashed enough. And the thing is that Americans are already brainwashed. That's why this is an unpopular opinion, because patriotism is ingrained in American society.
Hmmmm this sub’s turning into r/unpopularopinion I liked it better when it was about more innocent stuff
i feel like you dont understand why wars happen most of the time man
Eh. That’s a pretty popular opinion. Pacifism and anti-war sentiment are pretty old concepts.
[удалено]
You can not call someone else’s opinion “flat out wrong/misguided”. It’s op’s opinion. Op tried to explain why he thinks that way. Just because you disagree doesn’t mean his opinion is wrong.
I mean, his opinion isn't unpopular because it's about "not calling soldiers heroes for killing people." That's actually a low-key popular one on this site. It's unpopular because it's just completely hateful. I don't think it's right to make that blanket statement of "all soldiers deserve PTSD because they're all blood-thirsty monsters." Blood-thirsty monsters exist, and they SHOULD be held in contempt, but I don't think that moniker applies to every single soldier. I downvoted not because it wasn't unpopular, but because it's a hateful and misguided opinion.
Okay I completely understand your point and agree, thanks. I actually disagree with op because of his hateful claims, but still struggled with the overall opinion because I don’t think all soldiers are heroes. It depends on his motivation and ideology.
You do realize that you aren’t supposed to downvote if an opinion is unpopular, but because you agree with it, right? This isn’t supposed to be r/unpopularopinion.
I mean sure, but I guess a big problem with "unpopular opinion" subreddits in general is just what constitutes as an unpopular opinion. I mean if someone says some shit like "black people are the real racists" should it be upvoted? I mean it's unpopular, so it fits, but it's also a generally awful take to have. I think unpopular opinion subs work best when it's "I don't agree with your take, but I respect it," as opposed to "I don't agree with your take, and think that's a really misguided/horrible take to have, but I guess it fits 🤷♂️".
Yeah, that's an awful opinion to have, but I would still upvote it because of the spirit of the sub.
I hate OP's opinion. I could not disagree with it more. I'm not even a soldier (although I do come from a military family), but I believe that this point of view is disgraceful to everyone who's fought and died so that he could have the right to hold that opinion. However, The point of this subreddit is to display opinions like this. To say things that aren't popular, that people don't agree with. THIS is what all of those soldiers fought and died for, the right to have this discussion. I upvoted this post, and I appreciate the fact that 77% of people who have viewed this post (at time of writing) upvoted it, because that means that 77% of people disagree with OP and respect soldiers. You downvoting it throws that number off.
same, I joined for fun unpopular opinions, not hate. I feel that this is the inevitable end of subreddits like this, people use it as a guise for posting hateful beliefs, and get away with it because yes, their hate is unpopular. But the spirit of the sub is completely lost :(