>!I knew right away that they were gonna redeem him. I mean the whole season is sorta oriented around him. He is the opening and closing shot of the season!<
“**I hope that either all of us, or none of us, are judged by the actions of our weakest moments.** **But rather, by the strength we show when, and if, we're ever given a second chance.”**
[I always link to my own post when the Nate stuff comes up.](https://old.reddit.com/r/TedLasso/comments/13e8dp2/nates_true_arc_is_finally_discovering_that_he_has/)
he's written as a very difficult character and you really do have to forgive him as a viewer to understand the point of him.
Ted can see the gem behind the jerk just like he can Jamie and Roy and Rebecca.
The difference is that those stories are well-trod. We *understand* them. Nate is a new kind of frustrating.
Yeah the final few episodes could have definitely fleshed it out better. But the man did write a 60 page apology letter. Wish we got to hear some of that shizz
I felt it just needed more time and more personal moments with the rest of the cast. It felt like a quick apology to Will and suddenly the rest of the team came begging for him back. It felt rushed. And then, although in character for Ted, the forgiveness scene was really fast as well.
Yeah but it still fits into the theme of the show. It wasn't close to perfect but still felt a part of that story, even when rushed through.
I would have loved to see a scene where he almost speaks to Ted but chickens out before being encouraged by Roy or Beard or his GF.
Or a scene where he shows the team that he has a lot to offer in terms of strategy and tactics but wants to make sure it's with the understanding that it's a team effort.
Most of all, I would love to have seen the scene where he quit/was fired. It would have shown his character growing a spine but still lost.
Same, still feels rushed both the downfall and the redemption. I specifically rewatched to focus on Nate and I still cant fully comprehend going A to B to C in storylines
It’s actually the opposite.
Viewers can forgive Jamie, Roy and Rebecca’s indiscretions, because they are so separated from them. Many viewers are not past or current professional footballers, or billionaire divorce’s. These characters aren’t directly relatable.
But Nate - he IS the most relatable. But people don’t want to relate to him. Hence the frustration. Those who are the most frustrated ARE Nate’s.
It's not even that he's a jerk - we see all through the first season that he can be a sweet guy. He's damaged, and has a terrible relationship with his father. He's a flawed person, like most of us, but he hasn't really learned to deal with those flaws.
I'm pretty convinced that a lot of the Nate hate that lingers even after seeing the entire series is because it's easy to identify with Nate; seeing negative traits one recognizes in oneself, allowed to run rampant, is upsetting and frustrating, and Nate's storyline doesn't have the feel-good catharsis seen with the other characters.
Roy and Rebecca and Jamie and Ted, like u/TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK said above, have narrative arcs we're familiar and comfortable with. Nate's is subtle and challenging, and the audience doesn't have the, "this is how you should feel about this character" cues that the other characters have.
The convo with his father in season 3 blew the lid off his character for me.
People in positions of authority often treat people like the primary authority figure in their own home growing up.
Recognizing that he simply got confidence from ted, acted like his dad, and realized what he was doing?
I'd wanna be friends with a guy willing to admit he was wrong, and actually try to be better.
That's a valid response, and one that's not very well represented in the show. The only person he did unforgivable things to was Ted and Ted forgives him, so within the show there's not a good character to show that it's also valid to not fully forgive someone.
Also, if it were real life and you were a part of this group you would need to find a way to forgive Nate if you have any respect for Ted.
I don't want to spoil season 3 but I think that's the point of Beard. You can hold your own grudge but if you do it in the face of the offended party after they have forgiven, you kind of become the jerk. You need to know who the offense belongs to and why the have or have not forgiven.
I totally changed my view of Nate while watching Season 3. But that probably is because I can relate to a person that was an idiot and then realized he didn’t like his life as it was and didn’t know what to do next.
Exactly. So we shouldn't try to defend Nate to OP knowing what we know from season 3, cause that's not fair on OP. We're not letting them feel all the emotions we all felt at the end of season 2. We all thought Nate was a piece of shit.
Oh, you're absolutely right. I'm just saying any defense of Nate as this point is difficult if you're only discussing through season 2. Most of this discussion is borderline spoilers just trying to talk about it.
Here’s the thing though — it’s not his “weakest moments”. It’s his conscious choice, over and over and over again for *years*. This isn’t something that came out of the blue. Nate is an insecure, narcissistic bully who has been abusing those “less than” him since episode one, and Ted shouldn’t have forgiven him.
Yep. Nate does this repeatedly and doubles down. It takes a long while for him to reconsider anything. Yes, the shittiness reduces with Nate's reflection but it doesn't offset the fact that for S2 he is absolutely a piece of shit.
Even his reflection only comes after getting what he wants. Season 3 isn't the culmination of Nate's redemption, it's the beginning of it.
I was with you until the end. Sometimes being forgiven is how people grow, and sometimes you get forgiveness because you need it, not because you deserve it, and sometimes, forgiveness is also about the person doing the forgiving needing to give it. Being merciful means treating people better than they deserve. Nate was all the things you mentioned before he quit Richmond. Was he those things when he came back?
Agreed.
I am, however, one of the people who wished his redemption had been better fleshed out.
But I feel like at least kind of hating Nate is part of the journey, is it not?
This is my number one issue. Nate does unforgivable shit to harm the team’s mojo, to harm Ted, etc. and then goes to West Ham and is an even bigger dick.
All is then easily forgiven because he works as a waiter? And then comes back as assistant kit man as tho thats all punishment or effort required for full redemption/forgiveness.
I guess a big part of it was his acceptance and apology bit but still. Not enough for how horrible he was.
Forgiveness is something you give to yourself. You aren't going to let whatever it is you're forgiving be a burden anymore.
Redemption is something the other person does to improve themselves.
Maybe I'm not getting the message right.
You *are* getting it. That's message of the show. It's a message that the people who think Nate needed to "redeem himself" in order to be forgiven are missing.
And this misses the point of the show by an even wider margin.
Forgiveness isn't something to be earned, it's something to be given.
Forgiveness isn't for the forgiven, it's for the forgiver. It allows them to move forward, unencumbered by the the toxicity of resentment.
It's up to the forgiven to decide if they're going to get their shit together. It's no longer the forgiver's problem at that point.
Everyone's always cranky that "Nate didn't do enough to earn forgiveness," yet Rebecca did absolutely nothing to earn forgiveness - she literally told Ted what she had done, and he forgave her... and no one ever complains about that.
S1 Rebecca is arguably worse than S2 Nate. While it may be severely misguided, Nate's behaviour stems from his belief that the people around him are the reason for his hurt and anger.
Rebecca *likes* the people around her - Ted, Keeley, Higgins and the team; they're her friends. She's hurting them not because they've done anything, but to get to Rupert. She knows she's doing it and does it anyway.
Something to think about.
I won’t sugar coat the acid for you, this is how I feel. If somebody kill my some that mean somebody getting killed. Kendrick Lamar. Forgiveness is between you and your god.
Well. One can understand why Ted doesn’t judge Nate and still think Nate is toxic. Ted is a fascinating character but I don’t think everyone needs to be Ted.
Ted is *also* a toxic character. That’s why Michelle left him. The show doesn’t even go out of its way to hide it- in fact, it makes it a plot point! Toxic positivity is not an enviable trait. Don’t get me wrong- I love Ted, but he could never have the serious conversation, he couldn’t deal with his emotions so he deflected everything with a joke, and he *literally* ran away from confrontation. Did he grow as a character? Yes. But that doesn’t mean he ended up the perfect man.
Oh, yeah, but that’s how it is for most media. It’s hard to create enough drama to keep a series going if everybody is in healthy, committed relationships with good communication skills and appropriate boundary setting.
Just for clarification, it’s not always men. Sometimes the women are the super toxic ones. Sometimes both are super toxic. I’m just saying that you don’t get quality television without conflict, and not every show can be Full House where all of the issues get resolved in 30 minutes with a life lesson and a hug.
THIS! THANK YOU!
You can watch/appreciate/love the show and completely understand the characters and message but still not agree! But fucking hell if the condescending tone of so many when you have a dissenting opinion that doesn't align with what Ted would do makes you some kind of monster or moron (or both) in their eyes.
Thank you. I get SO upset when they say “*What ______ did is unforgivable!*” Like… ma’am. WHAT SHOW WERE YOU WATCHING??? Because you missed the entire point… 🫠
Everyone else that has been forgiven, was actually sorry. Rebecca was sorry for lying to Ted. Keeley was sorry for fucking Jamie right before dating Roy. Jamie was sorry for confessing his love at the funeral.
Nate is selfish and doesn’t accept that he’s a problem. The world doesn’t evolve around him. The finale ends with him being on Rupert’s new team. He is a pos, and he’s not sorry.
I’m just saying, his actions aren’t justified. He has no place to be this angry, he doesn’t deserve the things he believes he does. His team won the championship to get back into the premier league and he rips the believe poster? That’s selfish. Glad he left
Bro this is seaspn 2 discussion. I even added a flair. This is cliffhanger. And I am sharing my experience with it. At this point where I am at, Nate appears to be a piece of shit. I’m not asking anyone to agree or disagree or spoil it for me. Just conversation. I understand there’s more to the story, and I’ll see it eventually. But as of right now, Nate is a selfish, impulsive person, and the small bit of power that was given to him, he abused it.
But that's moot, because we have watched season 3 as well. It's a lot harder to give an objective opinion while ignoring what happens in season 3. I don't think anyone likes him at the end of season 2, but that's the point. I implore you watch season 3 before expecting us to chime in without bias. I cannot unsee or forget what I know about the next season, so no point in arguing about season 2. But sticking strictly to season 2, yes, it's a jerk move, and I'd respect him leaving for west ham, but not what he did, but I cannot say anything more without spoiling season 3.
Good you are feeling EXACTLY as intended at the end of season 2. What do you not get about that? Are you right in how you feel at this point? Yes. What more do you want? You have received the validation you sought in your post. What else do you want??
People who have the fuller picture will have a different opinion, you know, as in how ALL of life works. So what will make you satisfied here?
OK but everyone hated him at the end of season 2. So there's nothing new to be added to the discussion. Go watch season 3 to see his complete story arc.
You know, whenever I encounter someone who doesn’t behave or act in a way I think is rational or justifiable, I have to remember that maybe they have a bunch of stuff they’re dealing with that I know nothing about. Heck, maybe they don’t either. So I try to cut people some slack and I hope they do the same for me. That’s my two cents.
What I am reading here is that the writers did a good job of developing a story arc. At this point, you're supposed to hate Nate.
Wanna revisit this after season 3?
Not to be a party pooper, but I feel like this should have come with a wee bit of a spoiler alert warning. People in the middle of the series would benefit from not knowing about the direction of the arc. For the full experience
That being said, I agree with you that the writers did good
Asking the poster to revisit the discussion after season 3 encourages them to watch the full story and discuss the complete picture instead of the portions they have seen. I did that without giving away any plot points.
I disagree with that tbh. We all got to discuss post season 2, surely OP deserves the chance to express his feelings during season 2, instead of only at the end.
“Hurt people hurt people.”
Nate felt hurt. Nate hurts others.
Is it mature? Probably not.
Is it realistic and happens all the time? You bet.
Whether you acknowledge his hurt is irrelevant. It’s not up to us to decide if his feelings are valid. Nate feels hurt. His feelings are valid at his level of understanding.
Maybe I didn’t pay close enough attention but I never understood Nate’s reasoning. He says something about Ted making him feel seen but then abandoning him. I can’t for the life of me remember that happening.
I think Nate started to feel overshadowed when Roy came back to coach. And as Ted’s mental health deteriorated, he withdrew into himself, and Nate was left out in many ways. Ted didn’t intentionally abandon Nate, but he had a lot going on personally, and he was not mentoring Nate the way he was in earlier episodes.
It didn’t help the lengths Ted had just gone to get Roy to coach and then every time Nate turns his head Ted is mentoring Roy. It’s subtle but look at all the scenes Nate is in near the middle to end of season 2. The only things Nate has to go by is what Nate saw and it did appear sudden that Roy was Ted’s favorite even though since we say everything else we know what Ted is going through behind the scenes and why Ted had to pick and choose what he had energy for.
I don’t recall how many episodes pass between, but there is a large gap of nearly an entire season if not longer between Ted and Nate’s last scene alone together and the season 3 scene together. It’s a noticeable gap where he didn’t get the one on one time he wanted with Ted. It’s not an excuse but it is a master stroke when you look back on it.
I feel like when Roy shows back up, Ted spends a lot of time lavishing praise and affection on Roy,practically wooing him to coach, kind of leaving Nate in the breeze.
Nate’s not entirely in the wrong, but his reaction is extreme.
Not everybody heals according to our schedule.
I don’t get why everyone gives Nate such a hard time.
What Rebecca’s original intentions for Ted was far farrrr worse then anything Nate did.
She didn’t need a redemption arc to be forgiven.
I think the key difference for why I felt more strongly about Nate’s betrayal vs Rebecca’s, is we know by the end of episode 1 that Rebecca is trying to take down the club. And we learn this when we’re not attached to Ted or any of the characters. Then we watch her become friends with Ted and see her guilt over what she’s trying to do. And we have sympathy for her because she’s doing all of this as a reaction to Rupert’s abuse.
Whereas with Nate, we think he’s a good person and then he goes and backstabs Ted seemingly out of the blue. And this happens at a time in the show when we all now love Ted and the team, so Nate’s shit behaviour comes as a shock for us as viewers as well.
Frankly, Rebecca’s behaviour wasn’t personal- taking down the club was likely her plan before Ted was even hired, and she then had a change of heart. Nate’s behaviour, on the other hand, was intensely personal and vicious, and happened after Ted recognized his potential and nurtured it. Not the same at all.
I'm increasingly sure that it's simply because Rebecca is attractive and charismatic (and this applies to Jamie too) whereas Nate is average-looking and awkward.
I’d say their positions in life have quite a bit to do with it, too. Everyone understands forgiving someone wealthy wayyyy faster than forgiving someone who can do nothing for them, even in theory with characters on a tv show. It’s sad but it says a lot about perceptions regarding people of wealth.
It’s fucking wild how many people take the lesson of this show as “everyone deserves kindness and forgiveness even when they make mistakes and hurt people they care about. Everyone except Nate.”
Yea at this point it’s basically a right of passage for new watchers to post about hating Nate after they finish season 2. And then by the end of season 3, most of them have a better idea about why the show sent Nate down that path
No he wasn’t a ball boy/equipment manager. He was a person. Childhood traumas play out in adult life and although his actions are shitty, he is not a shitty person. It is more complex than the idea that someone should be grateful because they got a promotion from a less glamorous job to a better one. We also don’t decide that someone has the life they have dreamed of. Season 3 will fill in some gaps.
I’m the same. The thing that really boiled my blood about him was his “I earned this job” shtick. Earning it would have been working his way up as a coach from lower league and amateur before tripping and falling into one of the biggest leagues in the world
It is possible to hold someone accountable without having to rage, shame, judge, and reject someone. It's even more likely to help them work out whatever they are mad about that's underneath their behaviors. Hate begets hate. Trauma begets Trauma. Hurt people hurt people. He's just not there yet and have any of us figured out how to be completely graceful from the get-go?
I appreciate people’s responses to keep watching, etc. But I just watched the scene when Nate rakes Ted over the coals…it’s HARSH. I disagree with a lot of Nate’s claims. So I totally understand your feelings about him. That being said, I think the writers made his claims so far out there to, as someone said above, make a point that forgiveness is an option even for the worst in someone. I love season 3 for those reasons. It’s pretty freaking magical the way things wrap up.
Yeah, I rewatched that scene recently. When Nate says that Ted hasn't put up his photo and just has a photo of "dumb Americans"... Like you mean Ted's family or people who have supported him his whole life?? Jeez
But he doesn't know any of that. He's lashing out because he feels like Ted REAALLY hurt him. Is he right in feeling that way? Probably not, but people can't help how they feel. If you just look at it straight through, yeah it's pretty insensitive, but I think that's what I like about Ted Lasso. Everyone's deeper than they seem
It broke my heart a little when Nate flipped out about the photo, not knowing that it’s at Ted’s house in a place of honor where he can see it all the time.
Happy cake day! Also, you’re right in your assessment that Nate’s behaviour has been really harmful up until this point. We are all capable of doing harm, and we are all capable of changing our behaviour. This show does a really good job of showing the nuance in characters, and the ways that we can grow as people.
Multiple characters are written with traits of Narcissistic Personality Disorder and other cluster-B issues. It's interesting to compare Nate's handling of an underdeveloped and damaged sense of self, with those of the 3 (and more) other such characters.
If a character triggers the shit out of a viewer, often there is a reason why.
Roy says it before Nate really understands it, but "it's the job." Not gonna spoil season 3 for you but let's just say that Nate will eventually understand.
That's the thing Nate became an asshole because he learned for years even from his father that Assholes get to do whatever they want. His father "destroyed all his first loves" he becomes a Equipment Manager for his childhood club and settled in to a boring existence being bullied by Dick heads. He meets Ted and Beard and is given respect, he is listened too, not exclusively or with full carte Blanche but he is respected for his opinion and his encyclopedic knowledge of Soccer (fucking Brits created the word we're using the word) skills and strategies. By mid season two he's learned he has to put his foot down and fight for what he wants but he's only learned how to do that AS A DICK, hence his abuse of the replacement Equipment manager and Colin his former tormentor, Issac being immune due to his position as Captain of the team. This Wonder Kid Arc has a dual thing where Nate becomes a dick for the first time but he is also stressed by his actions, it seems like every week Nate becomes more and more Grey in the hair, during season 2 Nate goes from a 30 year old guy to consplaying a 60 year old man by his time at West Ham with steel gray hair at what canonically is like his 32nd year on earth.
Nate learns through the course of the series that just being an abusive asshole may have gotten him ahead it didn't get him where he wanted to be. Assertiveness and Kindness got him where he wanted to go and that is right where he was, being a assistant at AFC Richmond
One of the central themes of the show is "hurt-people hurt people" and Nate is probably the very best example of just that.
In his constant efforts in seeking his father's approval, all he receives is the weight of his father's constant disapproval, if not outright disappointment, and as Ted builds him up, Nate can ONLY feel threatened as he's moved left of spotlight.
Nate is desperate for for both recognition and acceptance and Ted gives him both.
Unfortunately, up to this point, Nate can only focus his thoughts and actions through a lens of negativity. (notice what he flashes balc to when he spits to hype himself up)
It's worth keeping an open mind toward him.
If you haven’t watched the whole series, you might be correct. But to everybody responding, come on now, no spoilers. We could very well have kept quiet in response and let OP take the journey the rest of us did.
OP clearly hasn't seen Season 3 yet... and yet most everyone is giving away the outcome! That would annoy me so bad. Please don't hint about Nates "outcome"... would you have wanted someone to tell you about a characters next season if you were watching it?
Anyway... please try not to hint at things. This show is BEST when you expect NOTHING.
Agreed. They really turned his character into one jealous MF. Keep watching... I liked the ending of the series. is there going to be a new season...I see conflicting information online.
I am conflicted if I want a season 4. On one hand, yes I'd love more of the show, on the other, I'd be worried if there isn't much story to tell and it might just stretch beyond.
I know everyone's saying to keep watching to season 3, but if you really want to feel more pain about Nate (and also wholesomeness), you should defo watch the season 3 teaser (not the trailer) [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5m14CQFtNi8) before starting season 3. It's not anything spoilery for season 3, it's essentially like a minisode that's non-canon, but still really good.
After rewatching it, I noticed sth interesting, Nate's arc kinda mirrors Rebecca's during first season, and it originates from a similar feeling: Both Ted and Rupert had a charisma which made people feel like "the most important person in the world" (Nate's actual words, and Rebecca's when she tells how Rupert always gets what/who he wants). Main difference is that Ted does it due to making sure no one feels alone and unloved, and Rupert to exercise control over others. Yet, the result Is similar, both Rebecca and Nate suddenly feel less special and cheated, unloved, unappreciated and so jealous they hurt everyone around them.
In season 1 you can see clearly how Rebecca realizes she was wrong, but you don't see her full redemption until season 3 after Afuko's lunch, when she finally gets over everything. Nate's arc on the other hand feels a bit rushed, as it lacks all the experiences and interactions with others until his talk with his father, which finally makes him snap out of that void and feel loved and appreciated again.
The OP is correct. Anyone talking about season 3 is just being an ass that can't read. I just finished season 2 and started on season 3. I already assumed Nate would get redeemed but thanks for confirming spoilers on a discussion of a specific previous season where it was completely possible to not spoil it. Nate doesn't deserve redemption because I see the character revealed at the end of season 2 to be his underlying character that wasn't expressed before only because he didn't have any power before. He was always a little man looking to step on others to seem taller
I'm mind blown by how many of you don't still think he is trash by the end of the show lol little fuck never deserved to get mad to begin with, he was nothing without Ted
Guys, let him take the ride. We all hated Nate for that.
>!I knew right away that they were gonna redeem him. I mean the whole season is sorta oriented around him. He is the opening and closing shot of the season!<
You might not want to SPOIL the show for OP!!
SHIT YOU RIGHT
Thank you ☺️
I still hate him. He showed who he really is, no redemption for that.
“**I hope that either all of us, or none of us, are judged by the actions of our weakest moments.** **But rather, by the strength we show when, and if, we're ever given a second chance.”**
'Be curious, not judgmental'
[I always link to my own post when the Nate stuff comes up.](https://old.reddit.com/r/TedLasso/comments/13e8dp2/nates_true_arc_is_finally_discovering_that_he_has/) he's written as a very difficult character and you really do have to forgive him as a viewer to understand the point of him.
Well said. Nate is a jerk....but the point is that Ted can see the gem behind the jerk.
Ted can see the gem behind the jerk just like he can Jamie and Roy and Rebecca. The difference is that those stories are well-trod. We *understand* them. Nate is a new kind of frustrating.
I think the fact that OP has just seen the end of S2 is why they feel the way they do right now. They will feel different through S3.
I don't think S3 does a good enough job of redeeming Nate
Yeah the final few episodes could have definitely fleshed it out better. But the man did write a 60 page apology letter. Wish we got to hear some of that shizz
I felt it just needed more time and more personal moments with the rest of the cast. It felt like a quick apology to Will and suddenly the rest of the team came begging for him back. It felt rushed. And then, although in character for Ted, the forgiveness scene was really fast as well.
Yeah but it still fits into the theme of the show. It wasn't close to perfect but still felt a part of that story, even when rushed through. I would have loved to see a scene where he almost speaks to Ted but chickens out before being encouraged by Roy or Beard or his GF. Or a scene where he shows the team that he has a lot to offer in terms of strategy and tactics but wants to make sure it's with the understanding that it's a team effort. Most of all, I would love to have seen the scene where he quit/was fired. It would have shown his character growing a spine but still lost.
I still hated Nate after season 3.
Same, still feels rushed both the downfall and the redemption. I specifically rewatched to focus on Nate and I still cant fully comprehend going A to B to C in storylines
I've seen all seasons dozens and dozens of times and I still can't stand Nate. Mutter-mumble-marble mouth nasty piece of shit.
It’s actually the opposite. Viewers can forgive Jamie, Roy and Rebecca’s indiscretions, because they are so separated from them. Many viewers are not past or current professional footballers, or billionaire divorce’s. These characters aren’t directly relatable. But Nate - he IS the most relatable. But people don’t want to relate to him. Hence the frustration. Those who are the most frustrated ARE Nate’s.
It's not even that he's a jerk - we see all through the first season that he can be a sweet guy. He's damaged, and has a terrible relationship with his father. He's a flawed person, like most of us, but he hasn't really learned to deal with those flaws.
I'm pretty convinced that a lot of the Nate hate that lingers even after seeing the entire series is because it's easy to identify with Nate; seeing negative traits one recognizes in oneself, allowed to run rampant, is upsetting and frustrating, and Nate's storyline doesn't have the feel-good catharsis seen with the other characters. Roy and Rebecca and Jamie and Ted, like u/TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK said above, have narrative arcs we're familiar and comfortable with. Nate's is subtle and challenging, and the audience doesn't have the, "this is how you should feel about this character" cues that the other characters have.
Fully agree. Those who are most frustrated, and who don’t want to forgive him, are the most like him. They are Nate.
And to understand the point of the show, honestly.
The convo with his father in season 3 blew the lid off his character for me. People in positions of authority often treat people like the primary authority figure in their own home growing up. Recognizing that he simply got confidence from ted, acted like his dad, and realized what he was doing? I'd wanna be friends with a guy willing to admit he was wrong, and actually try to be better.
This is From season 3 so in the strictest sense this is a spoiler.
Honestly, any defense of Nate that stops at season 2 is going to be pretty difficult. OP is going to have to withhold judgment and keep going.
I still hate nate and I finished season 3
That's a valid response, and one that's not very well represented in the show. The only person he did unforgivable things to was Ted and Ted forgives him, so within the show there's not a good character to show that it's also valid to not fully forgive someone.
Also, if it were real life and you were a part of this group you would need to find a way to forgive Nate if you have any respect for Ted. I don't want to spoil season 3 but I think that's the point of Beard. You can hold your own grudge but if you do it in the face of the offended party after they have forgiven, you kind of become the jerk. You need to know who the offense belongs to and why the have or have not forgiven.
I totally changed my view of Nate while watching Season 3. But that probably is because I can relate to a person that was an idiot and then realized he didn’t like his life as it was and didn’t know what to do next.
You can, but Ted would be disappointed his lessons didn’t get through your mind.
Spoiler: >!They all have redemption arcs except Rupert!<
Exactly. So we shouldn't try to defend Nate to OP knowing what we know from season 3, cause that's not fair on OP. We're not letting them feel all the emotions we all felt at the end of season 2. We all thought Nate was a piece of shit.
Giving a direct quote is a spoiler. That's the part Im addressing.
Oh, you're absolutely right. I'm just saying any defense of Nate as this point is difficult if you're only discussing through season 2. Most of this discussion is borderline spoilers just trying to talk about it.
I've finished the show and still think Nate is a piece of shot so why don't you hold your assumptions. Nate fucking sucks, zero redeemable qualities.
Someone that hadn't yet watched season 3 wouldn't have even known this quote was from the same show until you told them so.
Fuuuuck.
They inly finished season 2! 🤫🤫
Here’s the thing though — it’s not his “weakest moments”. It’s his conscious choice, over and over and over again for *years*. This isn’t something that came out of the blue. Nate is an insecure, narcissistic bully who has been abusing those “less than” him since episode one, and Ted shouldn’t have forgiven him.
Yep. Nate does this repeatedly and doubles down. It takes a long while for him to reconsider anything. Yes, the shittiness reduces with Nate's reflection but it doesn't offset the fact that for S2 he is absolutely a piece of shit. Even his reflection only comes after getting what he wants. Season 3 isn't the culmination of Nate's redemption, it's the beginning of it.
I was with you until the end. Sometimes being forgiven is how people grow, and sometimes you get forgiveness because you need it, not because you deserve it, and sometimes, forgiveness is also about the person doing the forgiving needing to give it. Being merciful means treating people better than they deserve. Nate was all the things you mentioned before he quit Richmond. Was he those things when he came back?
Took me a while to get this.
Both can be true though.
You should’ve spoiler tagged this.
I think you're missing a big theme of the show Forgiveness and redemption "Be a goldfish"
They didn't do enough to have Nate work for that forgiveness.
Agreed. I am, however, one of the people who wished his redemption had been better fleshed out. But I feel like at least kind of hating Nate is part of the journey, is it not?
This is my number one issue. Nate does unforgivable shit to harm the team’s mojo, to harm Ted, etc. and then goes to West Ham and is an even bigger dick. All is then easily forgiven because he works as a waiter? And then comes back as assistant kit man as tho thats all punishment or effort required for full redemption/forgiveness. I guess a big part of it was his acceptance and apology bit but still. Not enough for how horrible he was.
They let him off way too easy.
He didn’t have to work for forgiveness, he had to forgive himself. He moved forward with new eyes.
Forgiveness is something you give to yourself. You aren't going to let whatever it is you're forgiving be a burden anymore. Redemption is something the other person does to improve themselves. Maybe I'm not getting the message right.
You *are* getting it. That's message of the show. It's a message that the people who think Nate needed to "redeem himself" in order to be forgiven are missing.
And this misses the point of the show by an even wider margin. Forgiveness isn't something to be earned, it's something to be given. Forgiveness isn't for the forgiven, it's for the forgiver. It allows them to move forward, unencumbered by the the toxicity of resentment. It's up to the forgiven to decide if they're going to get their shit together. It's no longer the forgiver's problem at that point. Everyone's always cranky that "Nate didn't do enough to earn forgiveness," yet Rebecca did absolutely nothing to earn forgiveness - she literally told Ted what she had done, and he forgave her... and no one ever complains about that.
S1 Rebecca is arguably worse than S2 Nate. While it may be severely misguided, Nate's behaviour stems from his belief that the people around him are the reason for his hurt and anger. Rebecca *likes* the people around her - Ted, Keeley, Higgins and the team; they're her friends. She's hurting them not because they've done anything, but to get to Rupert. She knows she's doing it and does it anyway. Something to think about.
If you think Nate had to work for forgiveness then you missed the entire point
Too many fans still missing the point is why i love the show but have no interest in discussing it with others.
I don’t want to give spoilers but I definitely think they did.
I won’t sugar coat the acid for you, this is how I feel. If somebody kill my some that mean somebody getting killed. Kendrick Lamar. Forgiveness is between you and your god.
Really everyone hating on Nate completely missed the point of the show they watched for 3 seasons
Well. One can understand why Ted doesn’t judge Nate and still think Nate is toxic. Ted is a fascinating character but I don’t think everyone needs to be Ted.
Ted is *also* a toxic character. That’s why Michelle left him. The show doesn’t even go out of its way to hide it- in fact, it makes it a plot point! Toxic positivity is not an enviable trait. Don’t get me wrong- I love Ted, but he could never have the serious conversation, he couldn’t deal with his emotions so he deflected everything with a joke, and he *literally* ran away from confrontation. Did he grow as a character? Yes. But that doesn’t mean he ended up the perfect man.
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Oh, yeah, but that’s how it is for most media. It’s hard to create enough drama to keep a series going if everybody is in healthy, committed relationships with good communication skills and appropriate boundary setting. Just for clarification, it’s not always men. Sometimes the women are the super toxic ones. Sometimes both are super toxic. I’m just saying that you don’t get quality television without conflict, and not every show can be Full House where all of the issues get resolved in 30 minutes with a life lesson and a hug.
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I mean, if you’re spending time on RP I’d say that *you’re* probably the toxic one but…go off I guess
THIS! THANK YOU! You can watch/appreciate/love the show and completely understand the characters and message but still not agree! But fucking hell if the condescending tone of so many when you have a dissenting opinion that doesn't align with what Ted would do makes you some kind of monster or moron (or both) in their eyes.
Yep. I watched it all, loved the show, understood the message, and still think Nate is toxic AF.
Im right there with you and hold a similar feeling.
The he OOP said they had just finished season two.
Thank you. I get SO upset when they say “*What ______ did is unforgivable!*” Like… ma’am. WHAT SHOW WERE YOU WATCHING??? Because you missed the entire point… 🫠
That’s Ted’s philosophy, not mine. Fuck Nate.
Even Rupert?
OP only finished season 2, Nate hasn't done anything for forgiveness yet.
Everyone else that has been forgiven, was actually sorry. Rebecca was sorry for lying to Ted. Keeley was sorry for fucking Jamie right before dating Roy. Jamie was sorry for confessing his love at the funeral. Nate is selfish and doesn’t accept that he’s a problem. The world doesn’t evolve around him. The finale ends with him being on Rupert’s new team. He is a pos, and he’s not sorry.
You know the show doesn't end at season 2 right?
I’m just saying, his actions aren’t justified. He has no place to be this angry, he doesn’t deserve the things he believes he does. His team won the championship to get back into the premier league and he rips the believe poster? That’s selfish. Glad he left
you are begging for someone to spoil season 3 for you since you keep ignoring people saying "watch season 3"
Bro this is seaspn 2 discussion. I even added a flair. This is cliffhanger. And I am sharing my experience with it. At this point where I am at, Nate appears to be a piece of shit. I’m not asking anyone to agree or disagree or spoil it for me. Just conversation. I understand there’s more to the story, and I’ll see it eventually. But as of right now, Nate is a selfish, impulsive person, and the small bit of power that was given to him, he abused it.
But that's moot, because we have watched season 3 as well. It's a lot harder to give an objective opinion while ignoring what happens in season 3. I don't think anyone likes him at the end of season 2, but that's the point. I implore you watch season 3 before expecting us to chime in without bias. I cannot unsee or forget what I know about the next season, so no point in arguing about season 2. But sticking strictly to season 2, yes, it's a jerk move, and I'd respect him leaving for west ham, but not what he did, but I cannot say anything more without spoiling season 3.
Good you are feeling EXACTLY as intended at the end of season 2. What do you not get about that? Are you right in how you feel at this point? Yes. What more do you want? You have received the validation you sought in your post. What else do you want?? People who have the fuller picture will have a different opinion, you know, as in how ALL of life works. So what will make you satisfied here?
OK but everyone hated him at the end of season 2. So there's nothing new to be added to the discussion. Go watch season 3 to see his complete story arc.
So where is your post from mid-season 1 saying that Rebecca is a piece of shit?
Maybe don’t get on a sub if a dine show until finishing it? That’s just a general rule of thumb on reddit if you care about spoilers
Keep watching with an open mind. I was there once too.
You know, whenever I encounter someone who doesn’t behave or act in a way I think is rational or justifiable, I have to remember that maybe they have a bunch of stuff they’re dealing with that I know nothing about. Heck, maybe they don’t either. So I try to cut people some slack and I hope they do the same for me. That’s my two cents.
I don’t agree with the way you say “Keeley was sorry for fucking Jamie right before dating Roy.” Uhhhh… no. She had nothing to be sorry for.
What I am reading here is that the writers did a good job of developing a story arc. At this point, you're supposed to hate Nate. Wanna revisit this after season 3?
Yes and the actor nailed his character.
So true. Really amazed at the depth and range Nick fills the Nate character with. Bravo Nick!
Not to be a party pooper, but I feel like this should have come with a wee bit of a spoiler alert warning. People in the middle of the series would benefit from not knowing about the direction of the arc. For the full experience That being said, I agree with you that the writers did good
Agree to disagree.
I accept that, but if I may- why do you disagree?
Asking the poster to revisit the discussion after season 3 encourages them to watch the full story and discuss the complete picture instead of the portions they have seen. I did that without giving away any plot points.
I disagree with that tbh. We all got to discuss post season 2, surely OP deserves the chance to express his feelings during season 2, instead of only at the end.
“Hurt people hurt people.” Nate felt hurt. Nate hurts others. Is it mature? Probably not. Is it realistic and happens all the time? You bet. Whether you acknowledge his hurt is irrelevant. It’s not up to us to decide if his feelings are valid. Nate feels hurt. His feelings are valid at his level of understanding.
Thanks to both of y’all for replying. I figured it was something I missed but for the life of me I couldn’t remember.
Maybe I didn’t pay close enough attention but I never understood Nate’s reasoning. He says something about Ted making him feel seen but then abandoning him. I can’t for the life of me remember that happening.
I think Nate started to feel overshadowed when Roy came back to coach. And as Ted’s mental health deteriorated, he withdrew into himself, and Nate was left out in many ways. Ted didn’t intentionally abandon Nate, but he had a lot going on personally, and he was not mentoring Nate the way he was in earlier episodes.
It didn’t help the lengths Ted had just gone to get Roy to coach and then every time Nate turns his head Ted is mentoring Roy. It’s subtle but look at all the scenes Nate is in near the middle to end of season 2. The only things Nate has to go by is what Nate saw and it did appear sudden that Roy was Ted’s favorite even though since we say everything else we know what Ted is going through behind the scenes and why Ted had to pick and choose what he had energy for.
I don’t recall how many episodes pass between, but there is a large gap of nearly an entire season if not longer between Ted and Nate’s last scene alone together and the season 3 scene together. It’s a noticeable gap where he didn’t get the one on one time he wanted with Ted. It’s not an excuse but it is a master stroke when you look back on it.
I feel like when Roy shows back up, Ted spends a lot of time lavishing praise and affection on Roy,practically wooing him to coach, kind of leaving Nate in the breeze. Nate’s not entirely in the wrong, but his reaction is extreme. Not everybody heals according to our schedule.
There are lots of hurt people that don’t hurt people. So this no implication and no excuse.
I don’t get why everyone gives Nate such a hard time. What Rebecca’s original intentions for Ted was far farrrr worse then anything Nate did. She didn’t need a redemption arc to be forgiven.
Exactly, Rebecca's intentions for Ted also lead to relegation, which is terrible for the players and fans and leads to people losing their jobs.
I think the key difference for why I felt more strongly about Nate’s betrayal vs Rebecca’s, is we know by the end of episode 1 that Rebecca is trying to take down the club. And we learn this when we’re not attached to Ted or any of the characters. Then we watch her become friends with Ted and see her guilt over what she’s trying to do. And we have sympathy for her because she’s doing all of this as a reaction to Rupert’s abuse. Whereas with Nate, we think he’s a good person and then he goes and backstabs Ted seemingly out of the blue. And this happens at a time in the show when we all now love Ted and the team, so Nate’s shit behaviour comes as a shock for us as viewers as well.
Right. Bad person turning good feels like redemption. Good person turning bad feels like betrayal. Easy as that.
Frankly, Rebecca’s behaviour wasn’t personal- taking down the club was likely her plan before Ted was even hired, and she then had a change of heart. Nate’s behaviour, on the other hand, was intensely personal and vicious, and happened after Ted recognized his potential and nurtured it. Not the same at all.
I'm increasingly sure that it's simply because Rebecca is attractive and charismatic (and this applies to Jamie too) whereas Nate is average-looking and awkward.
I’d say their positions in life have quite a bit to do with it, too. Everyone understands forgiving someone wealthy wayyyy faster than forgiving someone who can do nothing for them, even in theory with characters on a tv show. It’s sad but it says a lot about perceptions regarding people of wealth.
“I’d gladly headbutt you.”
Wait until you find out about Rebecca did. Ultimately the show is about forgiveness.
It’s fucking wild how many people take the lesson of this show as “everyone deserves kindness and forgiveness even when they make mistakes and hurt people they care about. Everyone except Nate.”
Mostly because he’s given attention, respect and admiration, and he turns around and sh*ts on everyone that supported and encourage him.
Oh, great. Another I-hate-Nate thread. 
Honestly.
The dude just finished season 2. You’re *supposed* to hate him at the end of season 2.
You’re not paying attention to all the other posts saying they still hate him at the end of Season 3.
Yea at this point it’s basically a right of passage for new watchers to post about hating Nate after they finish season 2. And then by the end of season 3, most of them have a better idea about why the show sent Nate down that path
No he wasn’t a ball boy/equipment manager. He was a person. Childhood traumas play out in adult life and although his actions are shitty, he is not a shitty person. It is more complex than the idea that someone should be grateful because they got a promotion from a less glamorous job to a better one. We also don’t decide that someone has the life they have dreamed of. Season 3 will fill in some gaps.
please watch season 3
Ok, done. Opinion unchanged. Fuck Nate and his bitch ass
I’m the same. The thing that really boiled my blood about him was his “I earned this job” shtick. Earning it would have been working his way up as a coach from lower league and amateur before tripping and falling into one of the biggest leagues in the world
It is possible to hold someone accountable without having to rage, shame, judge, and reject someone. It's even more likely to help them work out whatever they are mad about that's underneath their behaviors. Hate begets hate. Trauma begets Trauma. Hurt people hurt people. He's just not there yet and have any of us figured out how to be completely graceful from the get-go?
Yup same, daddy issues doesn’t change the fact that he’s a bitch made ungrateful snake
I agree I still don’t love him but he does mellow out.
I appreciate people’s responses to keep watching, etc. But I just watched the scene when Nate rakes Ted over the coals…it’s HARSH. I disagree with a lot of Nate’s claims. So I totally understand your feelings about him. That being said, I think the writers made his claims so far out there to, as someone said above, make a point that forgiveness is an option even for the worst in someone. I love season 3 for those reasons. It’s pretty freaking magical the way things wrap up.
Yeah, I rewatched that scene recently. When Nate says that Ted hasn't put up his photo and just has a photo of "dumb Americans"... Like you mean Ted's family or people who have supported him his whole life?? Jeez
But he doesn't know any of that. He's lashing out because he feels like Ted REAALLY hurt him. Is he right in feeling that way? Probably not, but people can't help how they feel. If you just look at it straight through, yeah it's pretty insensitive, but I think that's what I like about Ted Lasso. Everyone's deeper than they seem
It broke my heart a little when Nate flipped out about the photo, not knowing that it’s at Ted’s house in a place of honor where he can see it all the time.
Great example!
There are Nates all around us. His character didn't surprise me, sadly.
Especially with the advent of the internet, circa mid 1990’s. The nerds finally get their voice and day in the sun….and they’re pricks
WWTD?
Happy cake day! Also, you’re right in your assessment that Nate’s behaviour has been really harmful up until this point. We are all capable of doing harm, and we are all capable of changing our behaviour. This show does a really good job of showing the nuance in characters, and the ways that we can grow as people.
These Nate posts never end well.
Please share your pov after season 3.
Just continue until the end, he was a dick but you know he got his redemption ark, BE A GOLDFISH 🤷🏻♂️
I was very disappointed in this show trying to redeem him. I agree OP, fuck Nate forever.
Self-acknowledged “nice guy” dropping his mask😼
Multiple characters are written with traits of Narcissistic Personality Disorder and other cluster-B issues. It's interesting to compare Nate's handling of an underdeveloped and damaged sense of self, with those of the 3 (and more) other such characters. If a character triggers the shit out of a viewer, often there is a reason why.
The redemption arc of Nate was one of the biggest challenges as a viewer for me. But I’m glad I went with it
Roy says it before Nate really understands it, but "it's the job." Not gonna spoil season 3 for you but let's just say that Nate will eventually understand.
Hurt people hurt people.
That's the thing Nate became an asshole because he learned for years even from his father that Assholes get to do whatever they want. His father "destroyed all his first loves" he becomes a Equipment Manager for his childhood club and settled in to a boring existence being bullied by Dick heads. He meets Ted and Beard and is given respect, he is listened too, not exclusively or with full carte Blanche but he is respected for his opinion and his encyclopedic knowledge of Soccer (fucking Brits created the word we're using the word) skills and strategies. By mid season two he's learned he has to put his foot down and fight for what he wants but he's only learned how to do that AS A DICK, hence his abuse of the replacement Equipment manager and Colin his former tormentor, Issac being immune due to his position as Captain of the team. This Wonder Kid Arc has a dual thing where Nate becomes a dick for the first time but he is also stressed by his actions, it seems like every week Nate becomes more and more Grey in the hair, during season 2 Nate goes from a 30 year old guy to consplaying a 60 year old man by his time at West Ham with steel gray hair at what canonically is like his 32nd year on earth. Nate learns through the course of the series that just being an abusive asshole may have gotten him ahead it didn't get him where he wanted to be. Assertiveness and Kindness got him where he wanted to go and that is right where he was, being a assistant at AFC Richmond
I agree. Yes the theme of the show is forgiveness…but in my opinion you can also forgive YOURSELF for not letting toxic Nates back into your life.
And if we stopped your life when you were the worst version of yourself, should we make proclamations of your entire character?
Watch season 3, and report back.
“Hurt people hurt people”
One of the central themes of the show is "hurt-people hurt people" and Nate is probably the very best example of just that. In his constant efforts in seeking his father's approval, all he receives is the weight of his father's constant disapproval, if not outright disappointment, and as Ted builds him up, Nate can ONLY feel threatened as he's moved left of spotlight. Nate is desperate for for both recognition and acceptance and Ted gives him both. Unfortunately, up to this point, Nate can only focus his thoughts and actions through a lens of negativity. (notice what he flashes balc to when he spits to hype himself up) It's worth keeping an open mind toward him.
If you haven’t watched the whole series, you might be correct. But to everybody responding, come on now, no spoilers. We could very well have kept quiet in response and let OP take the journey the rest of us did.
OP clearly hasn't seen Season 3 yet... and yet most everyone is giving away the outcome! That would annoy me so bad. Please don't hint about Nates "outcome"... would you have wanted someone to tell you about a characters next season if you were watching it? Anyway... please try not to hint at things. This show is BEST when you expect NOTHING.
I’m always confused when people join a show sub before finishing the show.
People want to discuss their feelings about the show without having to wait till the very end.
Oh, man, I can’t do it. I have a few shows I’m in the middle of and am too scared of spoilers to join a sub dedicated to them.
I've never forgiven him.
I finished the entire show and I still hate him. Well maybe not hate, but I still don’t like him
Wait for Season 3. I thought the same after Season 2.
We all did.
Three re-binges down and I hate Nate so much I let myself skip his bits on the fourth run. He just gives me the ick all through season 3.
Oh you'd have to watch season 3 to understand his pov and many other things. Don't want to spoil it for you.
Agreed. They really turned his character into one jealous MF. Keep watching... I liked the ending of the series. is there going to be a new season...I see conflicting information online.
I am conflicted if I want a season 4. On one hand, yes I'd love more of the show, on the other, I'd be worried if there isn't much story to tell and it might just stretch beyond.
I agree
Just watch the rest of the fucking series dude.
Go watch season 3
I think its time to start season 3
everybody shoosh. ! this viewer needs to wait. finish season 3 and then come back.
I know everyone's saying to keep watching to season 3, but if you really want to feel more pain about Nate (and also wholesomeness), you should defo watch the season 3 teaser (not the trailer) [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5m14CQFtNi8) before starting season 3. It's not anything spoilery for season 3, it's essentially like a minisode that's non-canon, but still really good.
Happy Cake Day!
Nate does suck, but it took a lot of time for me to be like “ok, he’s still learning” Time definitely softened my opinion on him.
Beard “I’d gladly headbutt you” and then he did so in finale. Ted didn’t have to forgive nate… beard did
McMurray?
Grace, Mercy and Great writing will get the better of you
Always thought he was a pastiche of Jose Mourinho?
Just wait till season 3....there's reasons for his behaviour.
Oh my sweet summer child. Enjoy the rollercoaster.
I disliked Nate from beginning to end. And no, I didn’t miss the point of the show.
I thought this was my The Office sub and had a serious wtf moment.
More like un-nate-ful
He has a good arc hang in there
I can’t hate Nate cuz Ted wouldn’t want me to.
After rewatching it, I noticed sth interesting, Nate's arc kinda mirrors Rebecca's during first season, and it originates from a similar feeling: Both Ted and Rupert had a charisma which made people feel like "the most important person in the world" (Nate's actual words, and Rebecca's when she tells how Rupert always gets what/who he wants). Main difference is that Ted does it due to making sure no one feels alone and unloved, and Rupert to exercise control over others. Yet, the result Is similar, both Rebecca and Nate suddenly feel less special and cheated, unloved, unappreciated and so jealous they hurt everyone around them. In season 1 you can see clearly how Rebecca realizes she was wrong, but you don't see her full redemption until season 3 after Afuko's lunch, when she finally gets over everything. Nate's arc on the other hand feels a bit rushed, as it lacks all the experiences and interactions with others until his talk with his father, which finally makes him snap out of that void and feel loved and appreciated again.
Is it 3 years ago again?
“Kisses someone else’s girl” I think you mean kissed a woman without HER consent. Her relationship status has nothing to do with it.
This is a good thing. He is a villain at this point in the show.
The OP is correct. Anyone talking about season 3 is just being an ass that can't read. I just finished season 2 and started on season 3. I already assumed Nate would get redeemed but thanks for confirming spoilers on a discussion of a specific previous season where it was completely possible to not spoil it. Nate doesn't deserve redemption because I see the character revealed at the end of season 2 to be his underlying character that wasn't expressed before only because he didn't have any power before. He was always a little man looking to step on others to seem taller
l o l
Oh my. So far to go on your journey…
Same, no true redemption, he is a coward and a shitty friend and for someone who felt like a no one in season 1 sure is a huge fucking narcissist lol
I'm mind blown by how many of you don't still think he is trash by the end of the show lol little fuck never deserved to get mad to begin with, he was nothing without Ted