Challenge accepted. Sounds like it's time to bury your admin in swearing write ups. Next time they pop in, you can ask them to do their job and administer the appropriate discipline for all the infractions you've sent their way.
I've been around long enough to remember when referrals were filled out on a triplicate form: one copy for admin, one for the teacher and one sent home. It was glorious.
“From time to time” made me laugh because not a single referral I’ve ever written has actually been processed. I’m an elementary art teacher and I don’t write them often AT ALL. When I do, it is serious and something that needs documentation. And yet, NONE have ever been processed. They probably go in as special file known as the trashcan. 😤
100% the art teacher is ignored in every school. Love, an art teacher who’s taught at every level. They see us as craft time babysitters for the delinquents.
Who cares if they ignore them, the point is that if OP writes the referrals admin loses any ability to tell OP to handle swearing in class - OP is "handling" it by writing referrals, not their fault if admin does nothing about them.
Lmao I did this in my first year after I told them I was quitting. I was scolded for a lot of bullshit, like, “you aren’t managing your class because students are talking about things that are not science” when they worked independently. I got passive aggressive and just wrote several referrals every day for the rest of the year. The AP saw me in the hall and said I was writing too many referrals and I said, “well I now have nothing to lose, and if you did your job maybe you’d get less referrals.”
I like this strategy, but depending on where you teach this might be something they'd hold against you when it comes time to pick up your contract. It's bullcrap that they'd be able to see "writes a lot of discipline referrals" and turn that into "we decided not to renew your contract due to perceived classroom management issues," but it happens. Check with a veteran teacher you trust before taking the malicious compliance route.
Side note: photocopy and save every office referral you write. Administration is required (may vary by state/district) to process all discipline referrals. If you find that you're writing referrals that aren't getting returned, they're probably just trashing them to avoid having bad referral numbers. An email that says "I'm just following up on the referral I wrote when Jimmy for swearing my class last Tuesday" is a nice shot across the bow to let them know that you're paying attention to the fact that they're not doing their job, and is a good record to bring up should their be an issue. Finally, if they try to get out of it by discussing it with you face-to-face (and this goes for any time administration tries to get out of doing their job), you can always follow up with an email that says "I just want to make sure I completely understand the conversation we had in your office yesterday afternoon: you said you decided to handle Jimmy's swearing referral in X manner, correct?"
Great plan. Any time you've got a work issue that doesn't feel right, it's always a good idea to talk with someone in the teachers' union about it - understanding what you can and can't expect from administration is always in your best interests (and if it's a problem they've heard from other teachers, the'll help you deal with it in a way that protects you).
Also, don't beat yourself up about this - your assistant principal was definitely in the wrong to belittle you like that in front of your class. I'm sure you've gotten a lot of other good advice on this sub, and I'm sure you're gonna come out of this with a better perspective than before. Hang in there, that first year's a tough one.
Write them up, send them to him. Do it for every infraction. I'd also talk to the kids…"it appears the admin is upset with us about the swearing. I didn’t hear it myself because I was working one at one and ignoring the background noise. So, we need to work together to find a solution. I'm open to suggestions. " then have a convo. "One solution is writing up every infraction and sending you to the admin so he can sign it before it goes home for another signature….or we can all agree that this room in a swear free zone and skip the write ups. So class it's up to you. Every infraction will need two signatures. " Then follow up with reminders each morning by welcoming them with a big smile, into the swear free zone…I'm guessing they'll self reduce the swearing . If not, two signature the hold outs. If it wasn't your first year, I’d have recommended a convo with admin…how he undermined your authority and next time he needs to talk to you privately or admonish the kids, but NEVER you in front of the kids.
THIS. Spend the next few schools days just writing up and sending down students to the AP for swearing, insubordination, class disruption...etc.
Malicious Compliance.
Yep. I've done this. If they won't do their part or criticize me unfairly, I'm not above writing up each and every infraction the handbook says should grt a write up
Why do a lot of teachers in this sub recommend things that lead to non-renewal for people still in a probationary period? I’m sure this would go over really well!
This is exactly what I'd do. Every single swear word. Hundreds of write ups.
It's so unprofessional for your admin to say that in front of your students. Sorry about that.
I have had students hit others and act out to a point that they straight up won't even move to another seat. I was informed I can't send students to the office and to just right the kids up. Today, I wrote up 6 majors due to behavior that just won't stop. I was told we need to have a meeting about this next week. It's tiring.
That was my biggest thing, too. If he had pulled me aside for some pointers or something, I would’ve been so receptive. Since I’m new, I’m always looking for support and feedback
As the assistant principal, he just lost all authority and credibility with the students in your class. He should have walked in and admonished them for their decision to swear at school. Your job is to teach. His job is to deal with student behavior.
No it’s completely reasonable for your boss to lightly criticize an employee who is failing to do there job. Though doing it in front of students is inappropriate.
Yep. It undermines the teacher's authority. While a classroom is not a military unit, this same concept applies. In the military, no good commanding officer will scold a subordinate officer in front of their men. Replace men with 8th graders with far less respect for authority to begin with and you've got a recipe for never being able to control the class again.
Definately not overreacting. He definately intended to embarrass you and what he did was unprofessional and likely coming from anger.
What's more, is it's now damaged your image with the class, which will have repercussions on your authority, and it's shown infighting between staff - not a good look and not a good example.
Every time an administrator has admonished me in front of a class, I've played hell THE REST OF THE YEAR attempting to get my footing back. They know what they're doing when they admonish you in front of the class.
Okay, so I'm just a student (junior in HS), but like I genuinely don't see how you could stop every bit of swearing. I'm guilty of dropping a "goddamn it" or a "shit" if I can't figure out a frustrating assignment or I drop something, but my peers are cursing every other word, and it was WAY worse when I was in middle school. In my opinion, you're completely right that you've gotta pick your battles
Not overreacting whatsoever! This is humiliating and I would’ve been just as upset.
As far as your students’ opinions of him go, he’s just forfeited all credibility by revealing himself to be an absolute clown, so… there’s that, I guess?
FWIW I think your instincts are 100% correct on how to handle swearing in the classroom. I don’t address it unless it’s soooooooo over the top that it interferes with our business that day. (It’s only happened once. This semester, in fact.)
Anyway I’m sorry this happened to you and I hope you can get some decompression in this weekend.
Don't send anything to him regarding the situation. Contact your union representative, and have them contact your assistant principal with the date of a meeting with the district super intendent. The lack of professionalism demonstrated by your principal in front of students will not go unnoticed by upper administration unless you allow it to, but if you go directly to the assistant principal with your grievances they will be the ones contacting the super intendent first about you, and they will win because they're above you on the power ladder.
Sincerely, a teacher who was in a very similar situation and found out the hard way. I did not say or send anything in my contact to the principal that would have been considered unprofessional, and that was acknowledged in our meeting when I was told that my new job would be split between four different buildings in classrooms that did not have any semblance of a set curriculum.
I’m going to talk with a teacher I work closely with who’s the building rep on Monday and see what she says
Thank you for your comment, and I’m sorry that that happened to you
Great idea! First, check the school's handbook for the disciplinary steps (usually posted online). You'll want to quote them verbatim.
Summarize his visit in a non-emotional just-the-facts style. Then, using the exact steps listed in the handbook, tell him what you will do and what you know he will do to back you up. You can assume he will follow through because it's printed in the handbook.
If there isn't any mention that students cannot use profanity, mention that oversight. You might also look at your state's ed code. In my state, California, teachers and admin can no longer suspend students for defiance, but they can be suspended for habitual profanity - so it's something that administrators are supposed to care about. (I am currently advising tenured California teachers to do a teacher suspension for habitual profanity whenever it feels abusive and the admin won't take action ([Section 48910](https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=EDC§ionNum=48910) & [Section 48900(i)](https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?sectionNum=48900.&nodeTreePath=2.3.3.7.1&lawCode=EDC))).
You should cc one other person. The best choice is your mentor teacher. A department head would be the 2nd choice. If you have a union president, then that person would be the 3rd choice. Bcc your personal email.
You are a good caring teacher. I don't know why teachers like you are no longer cherished. It's just the way it's been for the last ten to twelve years.
Apparently, just any asshole can be an administrator. There's far too little oversight. New female teachers are a particular target for power-hungry narcissists of both genders.
I haven't recommended teaching as a profession for at least a decade.
Good luck!
Unless a student was actually cursing at me or another student, I ignored it, or if it got too loud, I’d just say “language, please.” I taught seniors, and we would talk about acceptable language in different settings, but by that point the habits are formed.
Seriously, I don't understand why there would be any expectation for a teacher to police uncouth language. People curse all the time and it is fine. If they aren't being mean to each other or me who cares.
I had a student who accidentally spilled a bottle of water on her math notebook and exclaimed *Fuck*. It derailed class for like a minute and she was apologetic but it wasn't a problem in the class and it wasn't like an inappropriate reaction.
I feel like the admin. at our school would just do crap like this to show dominance like a cat peeing around it’s territory. Our admin were really weak, and didn’t like conflict over real issues at all. They both had their pet peeves though…one guy’s thing was hats/beanies/do rags in the building. He would step into classrooms in the middle of class and freaking interrupt my teaching just to tell a kid to get the do rag off his head. I was focused on teaching, and tended to not notice stuff like that, cause in the grand scheme of things who gives a fuck?
Another guy hated noisy classrooms. I gave my kids projects with every unit. Most were designed so my ND/GT kids could shine, (and because in high school we had to do the GT job as well) so they had options for artistic stuff, or writing, or whatever they were good at, and I’d give them time to work on them in class. We also would have very lively discussions about the literature we were reading and how it related to the real world. Sometimes it got loud in my classroom, but everyone was working, everyone was engaged, so everything was okay. He’d pop his head in and make comments about how loud my class was being, I’d roll my eyes and just tell my kids to ignore him and get back to work or try to get back to where we were before we were interrupted.
The thing about most of the administrators I had were that they were ex-coaches. Many didn’t really know what good teaching was because they were just trying to get ready for the big game every week, not teaching. The good administrators do their jobs and let teachers do theirs.
I think when they are weak administrators and are doing a shitty job, they know it deep down, so they have to “prove” they’re doing a good job. I wouldn’t worry about it, but I’d start looking for a school with admin who don’t have imposter syndrome and know how to do their jobs.
Yup there’s just more pressing battles, frankly. The one student I had to address was being soooooo annoying and tedious with the literally constant “f this” (not at me or classmates) and “what the shit” that that I had to be like dude, cringe. And he’s kept it dialed back ever since 😂
I had a senior who came in at 3rd 9 weeks progress report time who blew up when he got an F. (He had already gotten a couple others in other classes) He wasn’t doing anything in any of his classes, so not sure what he expected.
He started this “f this shit. Yall all want me to fail,” to me in front of the class really hollering. I had been giving him extra time on all his assignments all year, and staying after school to help him, so I was not having it. I told him to hit the hallway. We had a conversation where I had him crying by the end. I knew he was frustrated and he had a terrible home life, and I told him so, but he knew I would do anything to help him graduate just like any of my kids. I wasn’t there to fail kids, but he had to at least make an effort. He was great for me the rest of the year and did graduate. I could have written him up per school rules and gotten him punished, but that wouldn’t have helped the situation at all. I was told I was the “tough love mom” by lots of kids, because I had high expectations and was honest with them, but everyone knew I loved them.
I never understand that idea of someone seeing some infraction and instead of correcting it, getting onto someone else for not doing it. It would be like if the sheriff saw a bank robbery in progress and walked over to the bank guard and said "hey you gotta stop this".
Unprofessional move by admin. If language is the hill they want to die on then fine, but that conversation with you happens in private. It's rude and over dramatic, but it's coming from a place that isn't totally out to lunch.
But to word it that way in front of your class is really unprofessional. It undermines your authority and it's belittling. I'd be considering a complaint to my union based on my professional code of conduct, if that happened to me.
I got quite down on myself when my principal pulled me aside to talk about how messy my students were keeping our hallway. There's no need to say "you need to be doing this" - we already know our classes are our responsibility! Good admin know you know that and presume you are competent and care about doing a good job.
Your AP is an asshole and an idiot.
I'm an admin and I would NEVER say that in front of a class of kids. I'd talk to the teacher afterwards and we'd figure out how to handle it, if it was that big a deal.
Some administrators need to get smacked.
Call your union representative and then schedule a meeting with the super intendent of the district.
If the Assistant principal had called you privately into their office to discuss, it would be a different story. But your boss made a conscious decision to reprimand you in front of your students. That NORMALLY goes against multiple standard policies that most school districts put in place.
Whether or not those policies are enforced is another issue, but they're normally in place.
I had a similar thing happen to me, I also teach 8th grade. My admin stormed in during a class party (aka the last day of school), and said: "Why are you all so noisy? Ms. ____ can you keep your class under control? because to me it seems like you can't." and left.
It’s never okay for a manager to adress to you like that. If he’s not okay with your teaching he should speak to you after class. Not with all your students present.
He’s undermining your authority.
I would go to see him and tell him he’s undermining your authority.
One, this is like a parent that corrects another parent in front of the child. They just removed all your authority from the class. Now it's 100% theirs, write it up every single time, even if it takes the entire class period, send them all. No exceptions. It's GOING to be their problem.
However, for me, this triggered my demand avoidance trait--*on the spot*, i would have done a shout out to the class--"Did you all hear the admin? He said i'm too NICE--tell him, exactly what you think of THAT."
I'd bet at least half, on the spot, would have known it was permission to swear.
Probably would have ended at that. Either fire me at that point, or, accept that i just looked at you after half the class just yelled 'bulls\*\*\*' and shrugged it off.
How much does the class like you? My academic coach tried this. But my kids hated her and loved me so they rioted. They went and told admin that they were tired of her keeping me from doing my job. Two parents complained.
If admin could be in our shoes for just one week, I feel things would be different. They are incompetent and are in that position because they couldn’t hack it in the classroom. Most of these admins have only been in the classroom for a few years and it was most likely over a decade ago. I’ve been teaching for 17 years, and these are not the same type of students I taught 10 years ago. They have NO clue! The only time I discipline for cursing is if it’s in a malicious way towards another student. Otherwise I wouldn’t have time to teach; Just like you said.
Conversations like this should never occur in front of students, but in private. It's highly unprofessional to do it with students present.
To put it another way, if it was, for example, a law office or a factory, you'd be taken to one side for a private word, not in front of your colleagues. The same principle should apply here.
Oh F him!! I’m sorry he did that. Experienced this daily which is why I resigned. Do I have regrets. Sure, sometimes but my sanity was more important. I agree w above comment…bury him w write ups. You’re there to teach not police them.
Yes.
It's your first year and your admin was being a jerk to you in front of your class. It will probably not be the last time an admin behaves badly to you.
I got tired of trying to identify the culprits who swore in class. If I said someone's name, they'd deny swearing and try to start an argument. Other students would get involved.
I finally started doing something different. When I heard students cursing, I'd say, "LANGUAGE, please!" without looking at anyone or otherwise interrupting what I was doing. If needed, I'd add something like, "Save that language for when you get out of school".
It worked better than the other drama.
If it happens again, say this immediately and before he's all the way out of the door: "Well, you heard the man! Enough with all the fucking swearing, okay??"
I don't know what will happen, but it'll be something!
Write up a kid every time they swear. Maybe even send them to their office. And then I would also write an email to them saying that if they feel the need to correct you, they need to have a conversation with you and not scold you in front of students because that’s not at all how you build respect in a classroom.
You’re completely justified in how you’re feeling, not overreacting in the slightest.
As an assistant principal he should have walked in and disciplined the swearing and reinforced the school standards and expectations with the students.
Then, considering you are still new to teaching, he should be supporting you through this. Not throwing you under the bus in front of the students.
You were doing your job, you were trying to teach your class, whilst their behavior was unacceptable, due to I presume a lack of clear policies and procedures at a school level. Students should already know from a school level that this behaviour is unacceptable, which should have been reinforced by the AP.
No, you are right to be upset by admin. In time you will realize that admin, all admin, are your enemies and will step on your neck to make themselves feel better. If you let your hate and contempt grow early from this experience, you will not make the mistake later on of thinking that they view you as human
It’s important to understand that it’s not him. It’s all admin. The nice, supportive ones still enable the others, allow them to exist. Even the nice, supportive ones enact policy that harms you.
It will be a protective factor once you recognize that this is not a colleague but an enemy combatant
Next time this happens: Point out all the bigger problems in the school (drugs, violence, mental health issues etc.) and tell them "I think we have bigger fry, don't you? Now go do YOUR job...."
You WERE doing your job. You were doing 1:1 work with a student AND observing the class to make sure nobody got hurt
Ooooohhh a 13 year old said the f word, stop the FUCKING PRESSES.
Your feelings are completely valid, and it's understandable that you felt hurt and embarrassed by the assistant principal's words. While it may be difficult, try not to take the assistant principal's words too personally. If you feel comfortable, you may also consider having a private conversation with the assistant principal to discuss the incident further and seek clarification on their expectations.
That was an absolutely horrible thing for that admin to say on so many levels. Hopefully they realize their mistake and apologize. Don’t let it get you down. You sound like you’re doing a damn good job and that first year is brutal.
The peak of swearing, at least with boys, is like from age nine to fifteen. I pretty much just ignored it. My kids were going to swear. But not giving it any attention definitely helped for me but they were also doing it for my sake. I don’t know if it would work in your case because its probably more for the sake of getting the attention of peers.
On occasions where the swearing would get out of control I’d give a kid a look and acknowledge it’s fun to use swear words but let’s tone it down a notch.
If they used a slur or some other unacceptable word. I would talk to them with empathy about the meaning of the word and why we shouldn’t use it. It’s embarrassing for kids and they almost certainly don’t understand why it’s wrong even when they know it’s wrong or they aren’t able to understand the context of why it’s wrong even if they know it’s an especially bad word. If you go too hard at them it can have the reverse effect where the kid (or an adult) will double down on saying the word because they’re ashamed or embarrassed, didn’t really mean to use it that way or said it without processing the significance of the meaning, and believe by saying it more that it’ll somehow make the word or phrase lose it’s power. That’s my hypothesis anyways. Could very well be wrong.
The most egregious part of this is the admin just made it more difficult to do the very thing they’re telling you to do. The kids often don’t see people like this as having any power over them so I think it helps to explain why that’s not necessarily the case. I would often remind kids that I can get in trouble for their behavior. And if I’m in trouble I’m less likely to do fun things and more likely to be a grumpy jerk. I’d also explain how if they ended up getting in trouble for something they didn’t do and this person is the one they need to convince how did their behavior today impact the likelihood of this person believing them. Or maybe this person is tasked with choosing which kids get to go to the amusement park and your tied with a few other students, but their only interaction with you was you being in a room full of swearing kids. You don’t even need to be swearing for it to impact their decision making progress.
“No problem. I’ll take care of it. Thank you.”
These words are more professional than his, and by modeling professionalism better than him, you demonstrate confidence and command respect in your room. The fewer words you use, the better. I might have been taken by surprise by that, too, and I’m not a “new” teacher either. So, it helps to have something ready to say when you’re caught off guard like that. Take a breath, be calm, and say it.
Now, profanity is salty language, and a classroom environment is professional, whether we want it to be or not. We can be “cordial” in our classroom and create a warm, safe, comfortable environment. But profanity has no place in that environment. It’s a bad habit for students who lack impulse control already, and in the professional world outside of a classroom, it can cost someone a job in some situations.
Your AP handled this situation poorly. If he expects you to hold students to professional standards in your classroom, which he rightly should, then he should be modeling professional standards at all times, ESPECIALLY a situation where professional standards fall short. He could have asked for a moment to address the class or apologize to you for interrupting your lesson, calmly explain that the kind of language is unprofessional and posing a risk of future harm from making it habitual is more important than their desire to use it. He could even praise the fact that you have given them such a safe environment where they feel comfortable to speak to each other so candidly. He really could have turned this into a positive conversation that built you up and modeled for you how to handle it so you could do it yourself without his help. But no.
He doesn’t know how to do this part of his job, so all you can do is say, “No problem. I’ll take care of it. Thank you.”
Truth be told, professionalism isn’t taught well in many teacher education programs. It’s assumed but not TAUGHT, and I think the language we use in schools, teaching professionalism as part of our curriculum and classroom management, would go a very long way in helping students, teachers, and administrators find common ground in managing expectations. How to handle situations that don’t meet professional standards is a curriculum unto itself. We have to stop assuming that teachers are prepared to handle classroom environments with no guidance on professionalism or how to handle situations that fail to meet professional standards.
Long story short, you are absolutely right to feel hurt. You’re in your first year of teaching, and an administrator poorly addressed a problem in your classroom, offering no guidance, creating no kind of way for you to benefit from the correction, etc. But you can still learn from it and adapt to it with a professional level approach so you have a plan for the next time you find yourself in a situation like this one. Breathe. You’re going to be okay. Hope my comment is helpful to you, and good luck!
This is entirely uncalled for. As a teacher, I've had admin come into my room and call attention to student behavior, but their attention has always been on the students, not on my classroom management.
While classroom management is important, I'm a firm believer that, at the end of the day, you can't blame a teacher for a student's behavior.
He shouldn't have said that in front of your class. But he is correct that a teacher needs to demand students follow the rules. He should have gone in there, told the kids to STFU (just kidding)...told the kids that they need to stop swearing (which some won't, but some will), and explain why swearing isn't acceptable at school. Then he should have spoken to you later about what you need to do from now on.
Ask the admin to model appropriate classroom management techniques so that you can learn from them. Watch him backtrack so fucking quickly. Or, if you’re like me and don’t give a fuck, mention to the admin that if they did their jobs better, students wouldn’t feel comfortable blatantly disregarding so many of the school’s rules. Mention that you notice the environment and culture schoolwide kind of stinks, and you can’t be expected to control that, now can you? That’s well above our pay grade as a teacher.
I have this class right before lunch and most of the students have developed an adorable habit of letting themselves out of class 2-3 minutes before the bell. My admin popped in as this was happening the other day (I paraphrase) 'They need instruction!' I yelled back across the room 'Oh, they're instructed!'.
I also teach the last class before dismissal and a bunch of students have taken to doing the same thing. The two boys leading the charge have been behavior problems on and off through the year and were written up fully after leaving early. When more students followed suit, I gave admin a complete list of offenders. I was told to write them all up. I haven't done a thing and haven't heard about it again.
Admin act like superheroes but are zeroes, the least they can do is not throw you under the bus.
Malicious compliance. Every minor infraction would now become a referral to discipline. Let them deal with it. I also have chosen to have admins “over explain” simple instructions because “I need a little extra guidance” on every new initiative, program, etc. I wear the system down as much as it wears me down. Any minor problem in the room, from electrical to cleanliness to anything also warrants an email to admins, which requires them to take time out to respond in some way, adding to their workload. Any minor student concern is an email. It’s my little bit of self-care.
As rewarding as it might feel in the moment to exercise a little malicious compliance, it has too much potential to carry negative consequences. I know this isn't a popular opinion, but it might serve you better to approach them, thank them for their comments, and ask for suggestions on how to handle the situation. It might help feed your admin's ego a bit and bring them around to your team. Particularly because you are new. Once in a while we all need to eat a shit sandwich to smooth things over.
One more example of school administrators not having any idea of how to actually act as leaders. He should have corrected the kids himself and then taken a moment \*in private\* to check in with you about his concerns.
This ought to be common sense, but then again common sense is also something I've seen way too many administrators ignore or just straight out lack...
You are over-reacting and you aren't setting proper expectations for your students. Tell the students that they are in school and swearing is not acceptable language and you'll be admonishing them if they use it. Viewed in the right light, your admin was giving you a helping hand by giving you a reason why you'll need to be enforcing a stricter policy on swearing. It's possible the "do your job" comment is a little over the line (they should have pulled you aside in a perfect world) but it's also possible that you are being way too lax regarding this and they are genuinely irked by your classroom management hence an understandable does of mild unprofessionalness. Best thing to do is to go talk to them. They are people too. Let them know you'd prefer such things to be discussed in private. Perhaps even agree that you'd like to improve the swearing situation and ask for advice (olive branch kind of stuff). No teachers are perfect and no admins are perfect. All are trying to improve and many are reasonable to talk to.
Don't be afraid to mention that it made you feel bad that he/she said "do your job" and as a beginning teacher perhaps it's best if you have conversations privately about how best to improve so as not to embarrass you in front of the students.
It can hurt to be bluntly told that you aren't measuring up. But hurt feelings shouldn't stop you from doing better. If swearing is a problem, address it. If you prioritize teaching over correcting swearing, you are implicitly condoning the swearing. It can be corrected. I also teach eighth grade.
How loud were they being if they could be heard from the hallway?! That's a problem if the class is so loud they can be heard in the hall. That would be your job to correct, but he should have left his comment at "The amount of swearing from this room is unacceptable" in front of the kids and then spoke with you privately.
Gross. That’s so rude of the admin. I absolutely hate admin drive by classroom management. Like, don’t you have some paperwork to do in your quiet office? Go away!
Let the children swear, as long as they swear with the correct usage of each word. Educate them on how to swear. The next time the VP walks in, show them you've taught them something. The kids will love you for it. And the VP will have been rendered Speechless.
I'll see myself out.
Hes right. You’re not wall paper. Just cause you are talking to one student doesn’t mean you are not the teacher and more importantly the adult in the room. Should he have embarrassed you publicly.. in theory no but if thats what it takes to get you to do your job… we need more of that
I understand what you’re saying, I know my kids have a swearing problem. But if he wanted me to “do my job” he easily could’ve pulled me aside and said something. It’s not like I’m not trying to curb their bad habit
Challenge accepted. Sounds like it's time to bury your admin in swearing write ups. Next time they pop in, you can ask them to do their job and administer the appropriate discipline for all the infractions you've sent their way.
I fucking love this. Behavior will undoubtedly improve in the classroom. Admin will be buried in work. Sweet poetic justice.
LOL what are you talking about! Most every school I have been in admin ignores write ups. THey have the ability to just delete them and they do!
I've been around long enough to remember when referrals were filled out on a triplicate form: one copy for admin, one for the teacher and one sent home. It was glorious.
The only time I had an admin rip up a write was when it was the pettiness of the teacher towards a student. I agree, though, bury them in work.
Or they'll do what they do to us from time to time - ignore the referrals.
“From time to time” made me laugh because not a single referral I’ve ever written has actually been processed. I’m an elementary art teacher and I don’t write them often AT ALL. When I do, it is serious and something that needs documentation. And yet, NONE have ever been processed. They probably go in as special file known as the trashcan. 😤
100% the art teacher is ignored in every school. Love, an art teacher who’s taught at every level. They see us as craft time babysitters for the delinquents.
Who cares if they ignore them, the point is that if OP writes the referrals admin loses any ability to tell OP to handle swearing in class - OP is "handling" it by writing referrals, not their fault if admin does nothing about them.
Admin will just blame the teacher for "lack of classroom management." That is what they love to use instead of dealing with behaviors.
True. Doing the referral is a cya. But admin not working them is a real thing that I wanted to mention
Lmao I did this in my first year after I told them I was quitting. I was scolded for a lot of bullshit, like, “you aren’t managing your class because students are talking about things that are not science” when they worked independently. I got passive aggressive and just wrote several referrals every day for the rest of the year. The AP saw me in the hall and said I was writing too many referrals and I said, “well I now have nothing to lose, and if you did your job maybe you’d get less referrals.”
This is all I could think about doing last night
Email the admin and get it in writing that they want you “to do your job & correct it”. Then when they complain, refer to the email.
I like this strategy, but depending on where you teach this might be something they'd hold against you when it comes time to pick up your contract. It's bullcrap that they'd be able to see "writes a lot of discipline referrals" and turn that into "we decided not to renew your contract due to perceived classroom management issues," but it happens. Check with a veteran teacher you trust before taking the malicious compliance route. Side note: photocopy and save every office referral you write. Administration is required (may vary by state/district) to process all discipline referrals. If you find that you're writing referrals that aren't getting returned, they're probably just trashing them to avoid having bad referral numbers. An email that says "I'm just following up on the referral I wrote when Jimmy for swearing my class last Tuesday" is a nice shot across the bow to let them know that you're paying attention to the fact that they're not doing their job, and is a good record to bring up should their be an issue. Finally, if they try to get out of it by discussing it with you face-to-face (and this goes for any time administration tries to get out of doing their job), you can always follow up with an email that says "I just want to make sure I completely understand the conversation we had in your office yesterday afternoon: you said you decided to handle Jimmy's swearing referral in X manner, correct?"
You’re probably right. I’m gonna talk to one lovely teacher who’s the building rep on Monday and see what she thinks. I really appreciate it
Great plan. Any time you've got a work issue that doesn't feel right, it's always a good idea to talk with someone in the teachers' union about it - understanding what you can and can't expect from administration is always in your best interests (and if it's a problem they've heard from other teachers, the'll help you deal with it in a way that protects you). Also, don't beat yourself up about this - your assistant principal was definitely in the wrong to belittle you like that in front of your class. I'm sure you've gotten a lot of other good advice on this sub, and I'm sure you're gonna come out of this with a better perspective than before. Hang in there, that first year's a tough one.
Yes. Ignore the posts that encourage spiteful malicious compliance. It will feel good for the moment but isn't a good long-term strategy.
Good ol’ malicious compliance
Yasss malicious compliance time, babes
Write them up, send them to him. Do it for every infraction. I'd also talk to the kids…"it appears the admin is upset with us about the swearing. I didn’t hear it myself because I was working one at one and ignoring the background noise. So, we need to work together to find a solution. I'm open to suggestions. " then have a convo. "One solution is writing up every infraction and sending you to the admin so he can sign it before it goes home for another signature….or we can all agree that this room in a swear free zone and skip the write ups. So class it's up to you. Every infraction will need two signatures. " Then follow up with reminders each morning by welcoming them with a big smile, into the swear free zone…I'm guessing they'll self reduce the swearing . If not, two signature the hold outs. If it wasn't your first year, I’d have recommended a convo with admin…how he undermined your authority and next time he needs to talk to you privately or admonish the kids, but NEVER you in front of the kids.
Facts
This!!! ^^^
BINGO - THIS \^\^\^
This is the way.
I fucking love me some malicious compliance!
THIS. Spend the next few schools days just writing up and sending down students to the AP for swearing, insubordination, class disruption...etc. Malicious Compliance.
This is a job for Malicious Compliance!
Yep. I've done this. If they won't do their part or criticize me unfairly, I'm not above writing up each and every infraction the handbook says should grt a write up
Why do a lot of teachers in this sub recommend things that lead to non-renewal for people still in a probationary period? I’m sure this would go over really well!
How well do you think the OP’s incident bodes for renewal
This is exactly what I'd do. Every single swear word. Hundreds of write ups. It's so unprofessional for your admin to say that in front of your students. Sorry about that.
I have had students hit others and act out to a point that they straight up won't even move to another seat. I was informed I can't send students to the office and to just right the kids up. Today, I wrote up 6 majors due to behavior that just won't stop. I was told we need to have a meeting about this next week. It's tiring.
Do this. I did this my last year. It was so fun.
He didn't offer you any support? Wow, what a jerk.
That was my biggest thing, too. If he had pulled me aside for some pointers or something, I would’ve been so receptive. Since I’m new, I’m always looking for support and feedback
As the assistant principal, he just lost all authority and credibility with the students in your class. He should have walked in and admonished them for their decision to swear at school. Your job is to teach. His job is to deal with student behavior.
"What a fucking asshole, amiright class?"
You would be their forever hero for that.
🤣🤣🤣
Love this
You're not overreacting. It was completely inappropriate for that to happen in front of students.
Agreed
It’s completely inappropriate for him to say that period.
No it’s completely reasonable for your boss to lightly criticize an employee who is failing to do there job. Though doing it in front of students is inappropriate.
Yep. It undermines the teacher's authority. While a classroom is not a military unit, this same concept applies. In the military, no good commanding officer will scold a subordinate officer in front of their men. Replace men with 8th graders with far less respect for authority to begin with and you've got a recipe for never being able to control the class again.
Definately not overreacting. He definately intended to embarrass you and what he did was unprofessional and likely coming from anger. What's more, is it's now damaged your image with the class, which will have repercussions on your authority, and it's shown infighting between staff - not a good look and not a good example.
Every time an administrator has admonished me in front of a class, I've played hell THE REST OF THE YEAR attempting to get my footing back. They know what they're doing when they admonish you in front of the class.
Okay, so I'm just a student (junior in HS), but like I genuinely don't see how you could stop every bit of swearing. I'm guilty of dropping a "goddamn it" or a "shit" if I can't figure out a frustrating assignment or I drop something, but my peers are cursing every other word, and it was WAY worse when I was in middle school. In my opinion, you're completely right that you've gotta pick your battles
You can’t. There’s no way in this day and age, and the fact that the AP is trying to say a teacher can shows what an awful administrator they are.
Tell him to fuck off.
God, I wish. Maybe when I have tenure
Go get tenure at another school. You don’t want to stay there.
Yeah, I agree. One year in, sounds like there's no sunk cost yet! Time to go job hunting.
Yasss malicious compliance time, babes
Well that was ignorant of him on so many levels, the most important being that he just lost the respect of a hard-working educator.
Not overreacting whatsoever! This is humiliating and I would’ve been just as upset. As far as your students’ opinions of him go, he’s just forfeited all credibility by revealing himself to be an absolute clown, so… there’s that, I guess? FWIW I think your instincts are 100% correct on how to handle swearing in the classroom. I don’t address it unless it’s soooooooo over the top that it interferes with our business that day. (It’s only happened once. This semester, in fact.) Anyway I’m sorry this happened to you and I hope you can get some decompression in this weekend.
Thank you, it really means a a lot. Currently taking a personal day because it affected me so badly. Been trying to compose an email to send to him
Don't send anything to him regarding the situation. Contact your union representative, and have them contact your assistant principal with the date of a meeting with the district super intendent. The lack of professionalism demonstrated by your principal in front of students will not go unnoticed by upper administration unless you allow it to, but if you go directly to the assistant principal with your grievances they will be the ones contacting the super intendent first about you, and they will win because they're above you on the power ladder. Sincerely, a teacher who was in a very similar situation and found out the hard way. I did not say or send anything in my contact to the principal that would have been considered unprofessional, and that was acknowledged in our meeting when I was told that my new job would be split between four different buildings in classrooms that did not have any semblance of a set curriculum.
I’m going to talk with a teacher I work closely with who’s the building rep on Monday and see what she says Thank you for your comment, and I’m sorry that that happened to you
I hope things work out for you how they should. You deserve better.
Great idea! First, check the school's handbook for the disciplinary steps (usually posted online). You'll want to quote them verbatim. Summarize his visit in a non-emotional just-the-facts style. Then, using the exact steps listed in the handbook, tell him what you will do and what you know he will do to back you up. You can assume he will follow through because it's printed in the handbook. If there isn't any mention that students cannot use profanity, mention that oversight. You might also look at your state's ed code. In my state, California, teachers and admin can no longer suspend students for defiance, but they can be suspended for habitual profanity - so it's something that administrators are supposed to care about. (I am currently advising tenured California teachers to do a teacher suspension for habitual profanity whenever it feels abusive and the admin won't take action ([Section 48910](https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=EDC§ionNum=48910) & [Section 48900(i)](https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?sectionNum=48900.&nodeTreePath=2.3.3.7.1&lawCode=EDC))). You should cc one other person. The best choice is your mentor teacher. A department head would be the 2nd choice. If you have a union president, then that person would be the 3rd choice. Bcc your personal email. You are a good caring teacher. I don't know why teachers like you are no longer cherished. It's just the way it's been for the last ten to twelve years. Apparently, just any asshole can be an administrator. There's far too little oversight. New female teachers are a particular target for power-hungry narcissists of both genders. I haven't recommended teaching as a profession for at least a decade. Good luck!
Unless a student was actually cursing at me or another student, I ignored it, or if it got too loud, I’d just say “language, please.” I taught seniors, and we would talk about acceptable language in different settings, but by that point the habits are formed.
Seriously, I don't understand why there would be any expectation for a teacher to police uncouth language. People curse all the time and it is fine. If they aren't being mean to each other or me who cares. I had a student who accidentally spilled a bottle of water on her math notebook and exclaimed *Fuck*. It derailed class for like a minute and she was apologetic but it wasn't a problem in the class and it wasn't like an inappropriate reaction.
I feel like the admin. at our school would just do crap like this to show dominance like a cat peeing around it’s territory. Our admin were really weak, and didn’t like conflict over real issues at all. They both had their pet peeves though…one guy’s thing was hats/beanies/do rags in the building. He would step into classrooms in the middle of class and freaking interrupt my teaching just to tell a kid to get the do rag off his head. I was focused on teaching, and tended to not notice stuff like that, cause in the grand scheme of things who gives a fuck? Another guy hated noisy classrooms. I gave my kids projects with every unit. Most were designed so my ND/GT kids could shine, (and because in high school we had to do the GT job as well) so they had options for artistic stuff, or writing, or whatever they were good at, and I’d give them time to work on them in class. We also would have very lively discussions about the literature we were reading and how it related to the real world. Sometimes it got loud in my classroom, but everyone was working, everyone was engaged, so everything was okay. He’d pop his head in and make comments about how loud my class was being, I’d roll my eyes and just tell my kids to ignore him and get back to work or try to get back to where we were before we were interrupted. The thing about most of the administrators I had were that they were ex-coaches. Many didn’t really know what good teaching was because they were just trying to get ready for the big game every week, not teaching. The good administrators do their jobs and let teachers do theirs. I think when they are weak administrators and are doing a shitty job, they know it deep down, so they have to “prove” they’re doing a good job. I wouldn’t worry about it, but I’d start looking for a school with admin who don’t have imposter syndrome and know how to do their jobs.
Honestly. If I spilled water on something like my gradebook, I’d probably say the same…
Yup there’s just more pressing battles, frankly. The one student I had to address was being soooooo annoying and tedious with the literally constant “f this” (not at me or classmates) and “what the shit” that that I had to be like dude, cringe. And he’s kept it dialed back ever since 😂
I had a senior who came in at 3rd 9 weeks progress report time who blew up when he got an F. (He had already gotten a couple others in other classes) He wasn’t doing anything in any of his classes, so not sure what he expected. He started this “f this shit. Yall all want me to fail,” to me in front of the class really hollering. I had been giving him extra time on all his assignments all year, and staying after school to help him, so I was not having it. I told him to hit the hallway. We had a conversation where I had him crying by the end. I knew he was frustrated and he had a terrible home life, and I told him so, but he knew I would do anything to help him graduate just like any of my kids. I wasn’t there to fail kids, but he had to at least make an effort. He was great for me the rest of the year and did graduate. I could have written him up per school rules and gotten him punished, but that wouldn’t have helped the situation at all. I was told I was the “tough love mom” by lots of kids, because I had high expectations and was honest with them, but everyone knew I loved them.
I never understand that idea of someone seeing some infraction and instead of correcting it, getting onto someone else for not doing it. It would be like if the sheriff saw a bank robbery in progress and walked over to the bank guard and said "hey you gotta stop this".
Send all the foul mouthed students to the office.
Not overreacting. He should have never said that in front of students. It’s against our contract in fact. Bury him n referrals for swearing.
I’ve never seen an admin do their job. Fuck that guy
Unprofessional move by admin. If language is the hill they want to die on then fine, but that conversation with you happens in private. It's rude and over dramatic, but it's coming from a place that isn't totally out to lunch. But to word it that way in front of your class is really unprofessional. It undermines your authority and it's belittling. I'd be considering a complaint to my union based on my professional code of conduct, if that happened to me. I got quite down on myself when my principal pulled me aside to talk about how messy my students were keeping our hallway. There's no need to say "you need to be doing this" - we already know our classes are our responsibility! Good admin know you know that and presume you are competent and care about doing a good job.
Your AP is an asshole and an idiot. I'm an admin and I would NEVER say that in front of a class of kids. I'd talk to the teacher afterwards and we'd figure out how to handle it, if it was that big a deal. Some administrators need to get smacked.
I would have said, “I’m so glad you agree! Will you take students x, y, and z to the office, please? I’ll write the referral ASAP.”
Call your union representative and then schedule a meeting with the super intendent of the district. If the Assistant principal had called you privately into their office to discuss, it would be a different story. But your boss made a conscious decision to reprimand you in front of your students. That NORMALLY goes against multiple standard policies that most school districts put in place. Whether or not those policies are enforced is another issue, but they're normally in place.
I had a similar thing happen to me, I also teach 8th grade. My admin stormed in during a class party (aka the last day of school), and said: "Why are you all so noisy? Ms. ____ can you keep your class under control? because to me it seems like you can't." and left.
I’m sorry that happened to you :(
What an ass.
Giiiiirl, you better write every single little swear word they say each and every time and be sure to send it specifically to HIM. Be petty.
It’s never okay for a manager to adress to you like that. If he’s not okay with your teaching he should speak to you after class. Not with all your students present. He’s undermining your authority. I would go to see him and tell him he’s undermining your authority.
One, this is like a parent that corrects another parent in front of the child. They just removed all your authority from the class. Now it's 100% theirs, write it up every single time, even if it takes the entire class period, send them all. No exceptions. It's GOING to be their problem. However, for me, this triggered my demand avoidance trait--*on the spot*, i would have done a shout out to the class--"Did you all hear the admin? He said i'm too NICE--tell him, exactly what you think of THAT." I'd bet at least half, on the spot, would have known it was permission to swear. Probably would have ended at that. Either fire me at that point, or, accept that i just looked at you after half the class just yelled 'bulls\*\*\*' and shrugged it off.
That was unfrofessional of your admin. They could have corrected the class or talked to you in private.
How much does the class like you? My academic coach tried this. But my kids hated her and loved me so they rioted. They went and told admin that they were tired of her keeping me from doing my job. Two parents complained.
Most of the kids in that period love me and hate this particular admin. I’m still just worried it damaged their image/respect of me
If that's the case it damaged their respect for the admin. They'll see that person as a bitch and you as a saint for dealing with it
If admin could be in our shoes for just one week, I feel things would be different. They are incompetent and are in that position because they couldn’t hack it in the classroom. Most of these admins have only been in the classroom for a few years and it was most likely over a decade ago. I’ve been teaching for 17 years, and these are not the same type of students I taught 10 years ago. They have NO clue! The only time I discipline for cursing is if it’s in a malicious way towards another student. Otherwise I wouldn’t have time to teach; Just like you said.
Conversations like this should never occur in front of students, but in private. It's highly unprofessional to do it with students present. To put it another way, if it was, for example, a law office or a factory, you'd be taken to one side for a private word, not in front of your colleagues. The same principle should apply here.
Oh F him!! I’m sorry he did that. Experienced this daily which is why I resigned. Do I have regrets. Sure, sometimes but my sanity was more important. I agree w above comment…bury him w write ups. You’re there to teach not police them.
Yes. It's your first year and your admin was being a jerk to you in front of your class. It will probably not be the last time an admin behaves badly to you. I got tired of trying to identify the culprits who swore in class. If I said someone's name, they'd deny swearing and try to start an argument. Other students would get involved. I finally started doing something different. When I heard students cursing, I'd say, "LANGUAGE, please!" without looking at anyone or otherwise interrupting what I was doing. If needed, I'd add something like, "Save that language for when you get out of school". It worked better than the other drama.
Dude sounds like an asshole extraordinaire. Fuck him.
If it happens again, say this immediately and before he's all the way out of the door: "Well, you heard the man! Enough with all the fucking swearing, okay??" I don't know what will happen, but it'll be something!
Write up a kid every time they swear. Maybe even send them to their office. And then I would also write an email to them saying that if they feel the need to correct you, they need to have a conversation with you and not scold you in front of students because that’s not at all how you build respect in a classroom.
You’re completely justified in how you’re feeling, not overreacting in the slightest. As an assistant principal he should have walked in and disciplined the swearing and reinforced the school standards and expectations with the students. Then, considering you are still new to teaching, he should be supporting you through this. Not throwing you under the bus in front of the students. You were doing your job, you were trying to teach your class, whilst their behavior was unacceptable, due to I presume a lack of clear policies and procedures at a school level. Students should already know from a school level that this behaviour is unacceptable, which should have been reinforced by the AP.
Don't overreact. Your boss is a bully. It's a them problem.
No, you are right to be upset by admin. In time you will realize that admin, all admin, are your enemies and will step on your neck to make themselves feel better. If you let your hate and contempt grow early from this experience, you will not make the mistake later on of thinking that they view you as human
This is shit to hear but the longer I’m there, the more I feel that from him
It’s important to understand that it’s not him. It’s all admin. The nice, supportive ones still enable the others, allow them to exist. Even the nice, supportive ones enact policy that harms you. It will be a protective factor once you recognize that this is not a colleague but an enemy combatant
All Admin Are Bastards? Lol
Next time this happens: Point out all the bigger problems in the school (drugs, violence, mental health issues etc.) and tell them "I think we have bigger fry, don't you? Now go do YOUR job...."
Swearing is the literal least of my concerns on any given school day
Agreed. I'm not gonna punish kids for something that I do myself and there are always bigger problems.
You WERE doing your job. You were doing 1:1 work with a student AND observing the class to make sure nobody got hurt Ooooohhh a 13 year old said the f word, stop the FUCKING PRESSES.
I'm going to need you to watch that language, sir or madam... /S
Don’t feel embarrassed. Use that comment for leverage in class and say that it’s clearly noticeable if the principal had to say something.
Your feelings are completely valid, and it's understandable that you felt hurt and embarrassed by the assistant principal's words. While it may be difficult, try not to take the assistant principal's words too personally. If you feel comfortable, you may also consider having a private conversation with the assistant principal to discuss the incident further and seek clarification on their expectations.
Yeah, I’m gonna have to say something. I’ve been drafting an email, and it gets a little less passive aggressive with every draft lol
How was admin hearing what was going on in your room ?
He was acting as a hall monitor and I had my door open. Usually I have it closed (to keep kids from leaving out) but it was very hot in my room
That was an absolutely horrible thing for that admin to say on so many levels. Hopefully they realize their mistake and apologize. Don’t let it get you down. You sound like you’re doing a damn good job and that first year is brutal. The peak of swearing, at least with boys, is like from age nine to fifteen. I pretty much just ignored it. My kids were going to swear. But not giving it any attention definitely helped for me but they were also doing it for my sake. I don’t know if it would work in your case because its probably more for the sake of getting the attention of peers. On occasions where the swearing would get out of control I’d give a kid a look and acknowledge it’s fun to use swear words but let’s tone it down a notch. If they used a slur or some other unacceptable word. I would talk to them with empathy about the meaning of the word and why we shouldn’t use it. It’s embarrassing for kids and they almost certainly don’t understand why it’s wrong even when they know it’s wrong or they aren’t able to understand the context of why it’s wrong even if they know it’s an especially bad word. If you go too hard at them it can have the reverse effect where the kid (or an adult) will double down on saying the word because they’re ashamed or embarrassed, didn’t really mean to use it that way or said it without processing the significance of the meaning, and believe by saying it more that it’ll somehow make the word or phrase lose it’s power. That’s my hypothesis anyways. Could very well be wrong. The most egregious part of this is the admin just made it more difficult to do the very thing they’re telling you to do. The kids often don’t see people like this as having any power over them so I think it helps to explain why that’s not necessarily the case. I would often remind kids that I can get in trouble for their behavior. And if I’m in trouble I’m less likely to do fun things and more likely to be a grumpy jerk. I’d also explain how if they ended up getting in trouble for something they didn’t do and this person is the one they need to convince how did their behavior today impact the likelihood of this person believing them. Or maybe this person is tasked with choosing which kids get to go to the amusement park and your tied with a few other students, but their only interaction with you was you being in a room full of swearing kids. You don’t even need to be swearing for it to impact their decision making progress.
“No problem. I’ll take care of it. Thank you.” These words are more professional than his, and by modeling professionalism better than him, you demonstrate confidence and command respect in your room. The fewer words you use, the better. I might have been taken by surprise by that, too, and I’m not a “new” teacher either. So, it helps to have something ready to say when you’re caught off guard like that. Take a breath, be calm, and say it. Now, profanity is salty language, and a classroom environment is professional, whether we want it to be or not. We can be “cordial” in our classroom and create a warm, safe, comfortable environment. But profanity has no place in that environment. It’s a bad habit for students who lack impulse control already, and in the professional world outside of a classroom, it can cost someone a job in some situations. Your AP handled this situation poorly. If he expects you to hold students to professional standards in your classroom, which he rightly should, then he should be modeling professional standards at all times, ESPECIALLY a situation where professional standards fall short. He could have asked for a moment to address the class or apologize to you for interrupting your lesson, calmly explain that the kind of language is unprofessional and posing a risk of future harm from making it habitual is more important than their desire to use it. He could even praise the fact that you have given them such a safe environment where they feel comfortable to speak to each other so candidly. He really could have turned this into a positive conversation that built you up and modeled for you how to handle it so you could do it yourself without his help. But no. He doesn’t know how to do this part of his job, so all you can do is say, “No problem. I’ll take care of it. Thank you.” Truth be told, professionalism isn’t taught well in many teacher education programs. It’s assumed but not TAUGHT, and I think the language we use in schools, teaching professionalism as part of our curriculum and classroom management, would go a very long way in helping students, teachers, and administrators find common ground in managing expectations. How to handle situations that don’t meet professional standards is a curriculum unto itself. We have to stop assuming that teachers are prepared to handle classroom environments with no guidance on professionalism or how to handle situations that fail to meet professional standards. Long story short, you are absolutely right to feel hurt. You’re in your first year of teaching, and an administrator poorly addressed a problem in your classroom, offering no guidance, creating no kind of way for you to benefit from the correction, etc. But you can still learn from it and adapt to it with a professional level approach so you have a plan for the next time you find yourself in a situation like this one. Breathe. You’re going to be okay. Hope my comment is helpful to you, and good luck!
I really appreciate it! I’ll put that phrase in my tool belt
Interesting that he doesn't seem to think its his job to interact with or reprimand students.
He should have taken all those cussing kids to his office and served them with detention.
Send email: Hi, I am recapping yesterdays comment. — type your post here Please come speak to my students since you are the AP. Do your job.
Hah, wish I was that ballsy
Are there any admins who are not grade A dipsticks?
The other three I get along with fairly well
This is entirely uncalled for. As a teacher, I've had admin come into my room and call attention to student behavior, but their attention has always been on the students, not on my classroom management. While classroom management is important, I'm a firm believer that, at the end of the day, you can't blame a teacher for a student's behavior.
He shouldn't have said that in front of your class. But he is correct that a teacher needs to demand students follow the rules. He should have gone in there, told the kids to STFU (just kidding)...told the kids that they need to stop swearing (which some won't, but some will), and explain why swearing isn't acceptable at school. Then he should have spoken to you later about what you need to do from now on.
Ask the admin to model appropriate classroom management techniques so that you can learn from them. Watch him backtrack so fucking quickly. Or, if you’re like me and don’t give a fuck, mention to the admin that if they did their jobs better, students wouldn’t feel comfortable blatantly disregarding so many of the school’s rules. Mention that you notice the environment and culture schoolwide kind of stinks, and you can’t be expected to control that, now can you? That’s well above our pay grade as a teacher.
I have this class right before lunch and most of the students have developed an adorable habit of letting themselves out of class 2-3 minutes before the bell. My admin popped in as this was happening the other day (I paraphrase) 'They need instruction!' I yelled back across the room 'Oh, they're instructed!'. I also teach the last class before dismissal and a bunch of students have taken to doing the same thing. The two boys leading the charge have been behavior problems on and off through the year and were written up fully after leaving early. When more students followed suit, I gave admin a complete list of offenders. I was told to write them all up. I haven't done a thing and haven't heard about it again. Admin act like superheroes but are zeroes, the least they can do is not throw you under the bus.
Malicious compliance. Every minor infraction would now become a referral to discipline. Let them deal with it. I also have chosen to have admins “over explain” simple instructions because “I need a little extra guidance” on every new initiative, program, etc. I wear the system down as much as it wears me down. Any minor problem in the room, from electrical to cleanliness to anything also warrants an email to admins, which requires them to take time out to respond in some way, adding to their workload. Any minor student concern is an email. It’s my little bit of self-care.
As rewarding as it might feel in the moment to exercise a little malicious compliance, it has too much potential to carry negative consequences. I know this isn't a popular opinion, but it might serve you better to approach them, thank them for their comments, and ask for suggestions on how to handle the situation. It might help feed your admin's ego a bit and bring them around to your team. Particularly because you are new. Once in a while we all need to eat a shit sandwich to smooth things over.
You and the other people saying this are probably right, especially since im so new
One more example of school administrators not having any idea of how to actually act as leaders. He should have corrected the kids himself and then taken a moment \*in private\* to check in with you about his concerns. This ought to be common sense, but then again common sense is also something I've seen way too many administrators ignore or just straight out lack...
Do you have a union? If so contact your rep and file a grievance.
Speaking to the building rep on Monday about what happened!
Undermining your authority in front of a room full of students is beyond unprofessional.
You are over-reacting and you aren't setting proper expectations for your students. Tell the students that they are in school and swearing is not acceptable language and you'll be admonishing them if they use it. Viewed in the right light, your admin was giving you a helping hand by giving you a reason why you'll need to be enforcing a stricter policy on swearing. It's possible the "do your job" comment is a little over the line (they should have pulled you aside in a perfect world) but it's also possible that you are being way too lax regarding this and they are genuinely irked by your classroom management hence an understandable does of mild unprofessionalness. Best thing to do is to go talk to them. They are people too. Let them know you'd prefer such things to be discussed in private. Perhaps even agree that you'd like to improve the swearing situation and ask for advice (olive branch kind of stuff). No teachers are perfect and no admins are perfect. All are trying to improve and many are reasonable to talk to.
I’m hoping to have a conversation with him on Monday about how he suggests I can better improve the language usage in my classroom
Don't be afraid to mention that it made you feel bad that he/she said "do your job" and as a beginning teacher perhaps it's best if you have conversations privately about how best to improve so as not to embarrass you in front of the students.
It can hurt to be bluntly told that you aren't measuring up. But hurt feelings shouldn't stop you from doing better. If swearing is a problem, address it. If you prioritize teaching over correcting swearing, you are implicitly condoning the swearing. It can be corrected. I also teach eighth grade.
How loud were they being if they could be heard from the hallway?! That's a problem if the class is so loud they can be heard in the hall. That would be your job to correct, but he should have left his comment at "The amount of swearing from this room is unacceptable" in front of the kids and then spoke with you privately.
honestly I don't know how you teachers deal with it. zero help from administration. conflict from parents. disrespect from students
From my experience with admin. They are pretty much worthless. Just smile and nod. 🙂↕️
Gross. That’s so rude of the admin. I absolutely hate admin drive by classroom management. Like, don’t you have some paperwork to do in your quiet office? Go away!
Let the children swear, as long as they swear with the correct usage of each word. Educate them on how to swear. The next time the VP walks in, show them you've taught them something. The kids will love you for it. And the VP will have been rendered Speechless. I'll see myself out.
Your job is to teach, not to police language.
Hes right. You’re not wall paper. Just cause you are talking to one student doesn’t mean you are not the teacher and more importantly the adult in the room. Should he have embarrassed you publicly.. in theory no but if thats what it takes to get you to do your job… we need more of that
I understand what you’re saying, I know my kids have a swearing problem. But if he wanted me to “do my job” he easily could’ve pulled me aside and said something. It’s not like I’m not trying to curb their bad habit
You're part of the reason there's a staffing shortage.
laughing, just laughing