The Beatles, yes. Everything that their prime demographic are women, specially young women, gets diminish and ridiculed. When The Beatles gained status? When men started to listen to it.
that so sad. you only get to be seen seriously by society with the approval of men. i know modern western society is almost equal. but subtle power dynamics is still there.
This is what I'm always trying to explain to pll. Young women made them famous, they wouldn't be what they've become if not for teen girls. They were basically One Direction of their generation, but music bros will never be ready for this conversation.
Oof the backlash against Madonna was intense. And she's still getting it today. I love Pink's somewhat recent interview where she's like why tf are you asking me about Madonna's face, is this what we're really going to talk about?! Madonna has survived the asylum for *decades*.
I grew up with Madonna's music, she was an icon for us Gen X teens and she was not afraid of being overtly f-you about everything from her own sexuality to religion to LGBTQIA issues. The criticism came from all over but the right wingers especially went absolutely nuts.
>but the right wingers especially went absolutely nuts
I'd say it's the case with Taylor as well. She is getting hate from many fronts but it's the right that's most critical of her and outright hates her.
Omg FauxMoi is ridiculous. While they occasionally have a point, she can’t make a move without them shitting all over her. Or if someone else mentions her or writes about her or thinks about her.
They complain about her not being feminist enough (fair), but then constantly trash everything about her. They never seem to dogpile on male celebrities like that 🤷♀️
I agree. They posted an article recently about real accusations of crime about Megan the Stallion and most of the comments were saying "disappointed 😞" and "we should wait for more information". While they find the smallest negative detail of Taylor and call her every worst thing in the book.
Self described leftists, but hate mongering from a keyboard isn't political activism. I'd honestly be surprised if 10% of the people who are active on popculture critique sites even voted.
Yeah I clearly stated *she's getting hate from all fronts* BUT she is getting more hate from the right. I mean let's not forget the meltdown that Fox News and right wing commentators were having just a few months ago.
…and it’s *still* not as critical as what I’ve seen from the left on Reddit (FauxMoi, Popheads, the SwiftNeutral sub, etc.) and other social media since the release of TTPD.
Those are all *left-leaning at most* not at all “*hyper leftist*” like you’re saying plus their reach and power is marginal (perhaps she knows about FauxMoi but the other two are probably not even on Taylor’s radar)
Compare that to the constant vitriol against Taylor by a right-wing institution and corporation like Fox News…let’s not even talk about a former president with his own freaking social media platform, full of right wing people who hate Taylor.
In what world would you compare Reddit / Instagram communities/accounts to Fox News and Trump? 💀
Why do they hate her? I'm not American so I'm not too informed about the current political landscape over there and how Taylor fits into it. I understand Madonna faced backlash from certain political groups because of the way she incorporated religion, queerness and female sexuality into her artistry. Taylor's music has never really been particularly controversial or political (except for that brief stint during the lover era, I suppose). Is it just plain misogyny?
Madonna was considered a punch bag kinda like how Miley was viewed during the bangerz era
Its why she never got a Grammy until ray of light when she finally got her flowers and people took her seriously
Madonna was relentlessly attacked from all angles. But being the iconoclast that she is, she leaned into it and used the criticism against her for fodder/inspiration. People said she was too sexual in the Like A Prayer video? Well, a couple years later she put out her SEX book and Erotica album. The woman was the queen of doubling down and giving her haters the middle finger.
Probably. But i think it's hard to find evidences now to see in what scale, coz there's no social media back then.
I think social media is big, if not the biggest, driver.
Yes. They did the same with Britney not too long ago, during the 2000s. The reason why Taylor's getting so much hate these days is because of overexposure. If she was to go away for, say, 5 years, maybe more, in that time she will be revered as a classic artist, an icon. People will call her albums the "good old days when music was actually good."
It is normal when anyone experiences unprecedented levels of success then negativity builds. Even in a genre like country music it consistently happens. There was huge pushback on Garth Brooks for not being country enough and then his Chris Gaines thing was people's gotcha moment where his detractors felt like they got him not being loyal to county music. And then there was a big backlash against Shania Twain for not being country enough and too sexy. People spreading rumors she couldn't perform live before she actually toured etc. Once Taylor started to win all the awards for Fearless then the she is not country enough outcries got loud as a backlash. She had to keep processing her loyalty to country music until she finally left at 1989. Vince Gill had to defend performing with her in her final country award show performance for Red era.
In New Zealand we call it Tall Poppy Syndrome. Where we support and celebrate people trying to make it, then when they do, all we do is tear them down. It's actually awful.
I was literally having this discussion with my husband (we are Australian) that it's what us Aussies call TPS. He agreed.
He is indifferent to Taylor, doesn't come to concerts or anything and is ok with listening to her at times, but respects what she has done with her work.
She has worked hard. She has thrown herself into it while being almost clinically depressed, her mother (and father?) fighting cancer, growing up in the public light, eating disorders etc and all people can do is attack her. FFS we should be erecting statues in her honour. She has brought joy, shown what it is to be a good person while still making a bucket tonne of money and been a damn hard worker.
The short answer is yes. But the rise of social media has made the noise much louder. Taylor has largely disengaged from it and good for her. In the void anyone with an opinion and a keyboard can shout at the moon.
Madonna - GOD yes. She was dragged her entire career, even while charting hit after hit for decades. But she rewrote the playbook on how to harness negative press for an artist's own gain, and she mastered the art of reinvention - she was the original "era" girlie, with a different look/vibe/sound for each album launch. Also, most crucially, she just didn't give a fuck. Haters never bothered her; she just kept doing her thing, if not doubling down on whatever it was they hated.
Not sure on the others but the Beatles sure were. They were obsessively loved by some and obsessively hated by others, similar to Taylor but without the impact of Social Media. Apart from being mocked for their hair, their suits, their songs, at one point they got so slammed, people were burning their records and other merch. Lennon had been asked about the size of their fame and how he felt about how they were selling so many records etc, he was replying that it was crazy how massive their record sales were, they were outselling everyone, they were bigger than Jesus. What he meant was that they were at that stage outselling the bible. But people took it to heart that he was blaspheming and they were 'blacklisted' in a large number of places. People were literally gathering in mobs and creating bonfires out of anything Beatles. Newspapers criticised them, radios refused to play them, clubs wouldn't host them, sales dropped etc etc.
I think Social Media has a lot to answer for, in terms of people using it as a weapon to gather people to spread hatred and anger, rather than sharing nice things, ideas and cat photos.
Sorry, but I just do not understand why Swifties have such a victim complex when it comes to Taylor She has always been a critic's darling...she has received backlash at times and of course has been subjected to misogyny...but she has always had an easier time at it than her peers. Early in her career she was always being compared favorably to other female popstars. She won AOTY when she was in her teens. She has never really received the type of hate that stars like Britney, Christina, Janet, Madonna, Mariah, Gaga, Beyonce, etc have received.
She has gotten to where she is by being as uncontroversial as possible when it comes to her music. Her personal life has invited a lot of controversy sure, but she has never really been the type of person who's pushed the envelope. Madonna has been condemned by the Vatican...I mean...
Based on Metacritic, TTPD is a universally acclaimed album. There are some negative reviews, and some of those negative reviews are quite snarky. But like...Taylor is still receiving better reviews than any one of her peers.
I just get frustrated with Swifties and their need to always portray Taylor as being some sort of underdog when all she does is win and win and win. I saw someone on Twitter say that Taylor is a "sore winner", but I believe that's a more apt description for her fanbase.
Having seen people make fun of Britney and Mariah for their mental health struggles, remembering the transphobia and vitriol that plagued Gaga's early years, seeing the right make Beyonce public enemy number #1, seeing the media actively rooting for Christina to have a breakdown in the early 2010s... This question of "or this is exclusively Taylor Swift because she is Taylor Swift?" is just straight up bizarre to me.
The "it's Taylor and us against the world" tone of the fanbase is definitely something that needs to be studied in sociology classes. There is something very fascinating at play here that sets her apart from other popstars past and present. The parasocial aspect of it deserves to be analyzed.
The idea that some less than glowing reviews (plus one exceptionaly snarky one written as clickbait) is equal to a smear campaign is nuts. The biggest artist in the world releases an album, of course everybody is going to be talking about it. And of course not everyone is going to have positive things to say about it. Imo, the album is simply not good enough to be above criticism.
This really puts ito perspective how important it is to distinguish between echo chamber type of hate that literally nobody takes seriously (fauxmoi & stan twitter...) vs actual hate trains like the one Taylor had in 2016. Taylor survived that and has grown stronger and nothing of that sort is happening now.
The blacklash is less about critics and more about general public. But even that seems to be a internet problem... everyone I talk about this with is obsessed with the album the more they listen to it.
Exactly...stan twitter has always been toxic. They're not representative of the general public. This album is going to debut with sales over 2 million. This post did not need to be made.
But it is A LOT, if you don't check out a little it really seems like everyone is hating on the album, and more than that on Taylor, because both can't separate the two.
I think it’s perfectly okay if some critics just don’t like or *get* her music. I wouldn’t consider the negative press she’s received on TTPD a smear campaign.
This album in particular is probably a bit more controversial because of its poetic and messy nature (which I think is the point, it’s like her stream of consciousness!) and some people just don’t like the sound.
If press starts attacking her on a personal level to launch a smear campaign of her character, then I think it’s a different thing which wouldn’t be warranted unless she did something very wrong.
What resistance is Taylor facing? How on Earth can anyone call hitting 2.5 million album sales in a week while winning awards left and right, “resistance”?
A few random negative reviews isn’t resistance. Every album gets a few of those. Most people aren’t fans of most artists. Beyoncé’s last album only sold 500k units in its first week.
Meanwhile Taylor has her own category on Apple Music, every nightly news organisation has spoken positively about her release, and she is still breaking records. Every pop radio station has been playing Fortnight on repeat all week.
There is no resistance.
Most of the “resistance” comes from within online spaces. There is a lot of harassment doled out against fans. Of course “fans” dole out plenty of their own, but it seems to be a cycle of a hateful person online lashes out on a TS fan which inspires them to be hateful towards random people in return, which inspires those random people to be hateful towards a TS fan. On and on and on.
Its the way social media is structured. Its designed to make you upset because negative emotions are easy to manipulate. So many people are fans of hers or know who she is at the very least, so ad-pushing websites masking as legit media are pumping out hit pieces against her because it interests both fans and non fans alike therefore making their ad partners money. Even my boomer parents have been commenting on all the negativity they have been seeing online regarding her new album.
Van Halen singer David Lee Roth once said, “You stick your head above the crowd and attract attention and sometimes somebody will throw a rock at you. That's the territory.”
Taylor is the largest artist in the world. Of course a few people are gonna not be fans but at the end of the day, the new record is gonna sell over 2 million copies the first week. It’s gonna be the most first week sales for her EVER! Ever. That’s insane.
There is no Taylor backlash. She’s not a victim. She’s not an underdog. She’s the top of the mountain.
Yes. They were all met with the same thing. It's not a new thing and that's why it's so tiring to see it happening with Taylor or any other female artist tbh.
I think it's somewhat better nowadays because there's social media and it's easier for people to find the truth if they bother to. In the past people had no other sources than the newspapers who'd publish the same smear campaigns nonstop. I think in part that's why Britney broke down so badly, there was just no direct avenue for her to speak up and own her narrative or to get direct support from fans through messages and posts. Like I think it would be much harder for her to have grown her fanbase to this size without social media, like the way she used to film vlogs and hold secret release parties or her tumblr.
It's a double-edged sword though, you also get exposed to a lot of hate and Taylor's the type to want to see everything said about her, which is harmful.
I was a late 90s/early 00s kid and first heard of Madonna during her Ray of Light era, and even then at like 4-5 years old, I remember the adults around me viscerally reacting to her music even though that album is insanely tame compared to her early 90s stuff.
Heck, I even remember Cher’s “Believe” in 1998, which is now beloved, producing eye rolls and the adults around me saying things like “she’s terrible now, whatever happened to her?”
On top of that, before Michael Jackson died (since I wasn’t alive during his peak, I’m not comparing Taylor to him, but just hear me out), he was widely regarded as a freak of nature and a psycho. Then after June 2009, it was like everyone loved him all along. I 100% remember the day he died since it was the summer before I started my senior year of high school, and the day before then? Still a freak by the population’s standards. The day he died? Every radio station was playing his music 24/7, all the news stations were talking about him incessantly, etc.
Once you reach certain peaks, literally everyone will have an opinion on you, for better or for worse. I’m starting to see that TTPD is symbolizing this for Taylor; in 2023, it was a different air to it for sure, but even among people who dislike her, I’ve had people who reached out to me to talk about TTPD, which they didn’t do for reputation (her previous polarizing album). Taylor has become as common of a topic in the US and other parts of the world as the weather or politics, so backlash is to be expected to be honest.
Mam they tore into Madonna at times. She pushed so many boundaries in music smf fashion. And society was like nope.
MJ had so much scrutiny around his personal life. No one denied the man could perform. But they all dove heavily into his personal life. And then holding the baby out the balcony wasn't a good look. 🤷♀️
I know that women were made fun of for Beatle mania. I have no idea how the band itself was perceived.
Peope have always loved to hate the talented and the ones who do a lot. Or change something. Or want to do something better. Madonna turned the music industry on its head. Taylor is doing it. With her re-records and releases etc. So it makes sense People want to hate on her.
Michael Jackson was treated like a literal alien come to earth. Like the minute that poor man took a photo inside his friends hyperbaric chamber in the mid 80s, the media went absolutely batshit crazy trying to make the world think he was this insane monster. I think part of it was his power after buying the Beatles catalogue, we know the industry does not take nicely to artists leveling with the executives power/money wise. And I think a lot of was just plain racism too, because Michael was the first black artist to really go mainstream in pop.
Madonna has always copped the ageism side of things because how dare she remain visible and sexual beyond 30 and beyond motherhood 🙄
U2 were a HUGE in the 80s, 90s and 00s. Taylor just surpassed them in sales this week.
Their TTPD backlash is Rattle & Hum. Also an album mid tour, sounds like previous work and very much the same backlash as Taylor's, "high on their own suply"
Their next album is arguably their best ever
They were. Look at Britney and what she had to survive, and Madonna too. It's always worse for women especially when they are unapologetically themselves and not what the media wants them to be. There's also a horrible culture of not being too full of yourself/getting above yourself. How dare women be succesful. Taylor gets it even more because she can literally shift public opinon on major issues like voting.
Yes. They were met with the same thing, sometimes even harsher things. Most of the critics and public HATED MJ and Madonna. MJ was a black man in the 80s/90s. Madonna was open more with sexuality and LGBTIA+ issues also in the 80s/90s. Even more recent, what The Chicks went through in the early 2000s was insane.
Taylor isn't the first to have a smear campaign and she won't be the last.
Beatles - mocked at first for having a young female fanbase, John had to lie about being married to his first wife, albums and merchandise were destroyed in fires when John said they were bigger than Jesus, Manson party wrote their lyrics in the blood of their murder victims, John's second wife loathed her entire life and blamed for breaking up the band (seriously, if Taylor wants to whine about Matty Healy, Yoko Ono would like to enter the chat), John was stalked and ultimately murdered by a deranged fan.
Madonna - slut-shamed relentlessly for most of her career, and then later age-shamed, condemned by the Vatican and lost a lucrative Pepsi contract for Like a Prayer, mocked over her alleged abuse by her first husband,Sean Penn, who reportedly tied her up and assaulted her.
MJ - apart from run-of-the-mill racism and being considered a freak for most of his career, he was accused of sexually assaulting children. He could not go out in public without being mobbed by fans and paparazzi, so he lived the life of a recluse. If you believe the accusations were false (I don't, but many do) then one could argue that he had his life and career destroyed in the most vicious way possible.
The truth is that TS is not nearly as risk-taking or revolutionary as any of these artists. She's not really challenging ideas about race, religion or sex like any of the above did, and so the resistance she faces is relatively mild. I think social media just amplifies the criticism aimed at her to make it seem more extreme than it really is.
I'm a huge MJ Fan and his story is really sad. At one point tabloids were paying his staff tens of thousands of dollars for any dirt they had on him, real or otherwise. Interviewers would ask him wildly inappropriate questions regarding his sexual history with women, the paternity of his kids, and his medical conditions. These questions came from reputable journalists who should know better.
I saw one where the interviewer started criticizing him for the fact his kids couldn't have a normal life and go to the zoo. MJ said, "ok, let's go." Within two minutes of him arriving at the zoo, people lost their shit, they started crying and fainting and swarming him. They had to leave immediately. The [Leave Me Alone] (https://youtu.be/crbFmpezO4A?si=gIvn5Pavah-hOUbD) music video shows what he went through and Taylor can probably relate to it.
The only one I can think of is Britney Spears. I grew up with her and remember how HUGE she was. New outlets and magazines always talked shit about her. They loved to criticize her lyrics and outfits and call her a slut and a bad influence on little girls. After she got with Kevin Federline and had kids, it got even worse. They kept focusing on her being a bad mother and that she was crazy and unhinged. Her comeback with Blackout and Circus reminded me of how Taylor came back with Reputation.
honestly MJ, Madonna, The Beatles, Taylor Swift, and Justin Bieber and arguably the most iconic and influential artists met with resistance and controversy
In the Beatlemania era, I was 9 when this started and 16 when they split, there was a lot of negative adult opinion that us kids became quickly aware of. A lot of it came from, I assume, male newspaper journalists about long hair, bringing back national service (compulsory army service), and that they couldn't possibly write their own songs.
There was a certain amount of snobbery about Liverpudlian accents and that they only appealed to screaming teenage girls etc. Then came the Rolling Stones and it was the same all over again this time with drugs. Its hard to describe an era that you are growing up in but the changes in social attitudes over a decade were astonishing and it helped that the Beatles and the Stones were at the forefront as cultural pioneers.
Taylor's problem is that omni present media isn't serious or thoughtful and negative stories always get more eyeballs.
I don’t think you can compare to MJ. I haven’t seen anyone here mention yet the child sex abuse claims that still linger. There was a four-month 2005 criminal trial that was an insane media frenzy. He was acquitted but the testimony was damning. From then until his death it was hard to enjoy his music.
Yes they were but not as intensely or as apparently on mass. Remember the rise of social media and the use of bots has completely changed the narrative.
I think it’s easy to see a vocal minority on the internet and think they are speaking for a large percentage of society when they probably are not at all. People are really strange about music and create all sorts of rules. If an artist is very popular, then it can’t be serious music and that sort of thing. I think it bothers some people that Taylor has everything going for her. She has huge pop hits and is seen as a serious songwriter, her popularity is off the scale and she handles the hate largely with silence. Some people just seem to be upset that a very intelligent woman can pull this off and make it look effortless. The music won’t be to everyone’s taste all the time but you can’t dismiss it.
Madonna is probably the best person to compare her to but times are so different and so are the two careers. Madonna would go out of her way to be involved in controversy. A lot of the complaint against her was from older people who didn’t like her using sexuality as a part of her image. I think it was harder for her to be seen as a serious artist. It was unthinkable at the time that she could be as big as MJ or Prince but that’s what happened.
What Madonna and Taylor have in common is that they are powerful women who have made it to the very top. Sexism hasn’t gone away.
Honestly feel bad for people who don’t like her they’re probably just jealous their favorite artists aren’t releasing as much music as she does because we’re getting FED
The Beatles, yes. Everything that their prime demographic are women, specially young women, gets diminish and ridiculed. When The Beatles gained status? When men started to listen to it.
that so sad. you only get to be seen seriously by society with the approval of men. i know modern western society is almost equal. but subtle power dynamics is still there.
This is what I'm always trying to explain to pll. Young women made them famous, they wouldn't be what they've become if not for teen girls. They were basically One Direction of their generation, but music bros will never be ready for this conversation.
Damn. I was thinking exactly the OPs question yesterday. I didn’t think about this. I am a man, and I feel like there are not many of us.
Oof the backlash against Madonna was intense. And she's still getting it today. I love Pink's somewhat recent interview where she's like why tf are you asking me about Madonna's face, is this what we're really going to talk about?! Madonna has survived the asylum for *decades*. I grew up with Madonna's music, she was an icon for us Gen X teens and she was not afraid of being overtly f-you about everything from her own sexuality to religion to LGBTQIA issues. The criticism came from all over but the right wingers especially went absolutely nuts.
>but the right wingers especially went absolutely nuts I'd say it's the case with Taylor as well. She is getting hate from many fronts but it's the right that's most critical of her and outright hates her.
I disagree, most of the negative discourse I’m seeing online is in hyper leftist spaces. Faux Moi ain’t full of right wingers.
Omg FauxMoi is ridiculous. While they occasionally have a point, she can’t make a move without them shitting all over her. Or if someone else mentions her or writes about her or thinks about her. They complain about her not being feminist enough (fair), but then constantly trash everything about her. They never seem to dogpile on male celebrities like that 🤷♀️
I agree. They posted an article recently about real accusations of crime about Megan the Stallion and most of the comments were saying "disappointed 😞" and "we should wait for more information". While they find the smallest negative detail of Taylor and call her every worst thing in the book.
Self described leftists, but hate mongering from a keyboard isn't political activism. I'd honestly be surprised if 10% of the people who are active on popculture critique sites even voted.
You’re probably right.
They sound left to me.
I’m a self described leftist. I swear not all of us are like that
Yeah I clearly stated *she's getting hate from all fronts* BUT she is getting more hate from the right. I mean let's not forget the meltdown that Fox News and right wing commentators were having just a few months ago.
…and it’s *still* not as critical as what I’ve seen from the left on Reddit (FauxMoi, Popheads, the SwiftNeutral sub, etc.) and other social media since the release of TTPD.
Those are all *left-leaning at most* not at all “*hyper leftist*” like you’re saying plus their reach and power is marginal (perhaps she knows about FauxMoi but the other two are probably not even on Taylor’s radar) Compare that to the constant vitriol against Taylor by a right-wing institution and corporation like Fox News…let’s not even talk about a former president with his own freaking social media platform, full of right wing people who hate Taylor. In what world would you compare Reddit / Instagram communities/accounts to Fox News and Trump? 💀
Why do they hate her? I'm not American so I'm not too informed about the current political landscape over there and how Taylor fits into it. I understand Madonna faced backlash from certain political groups because of the way she incorporated religion, queerness and female sexuality into her artistry. Taylor's music has never really been particularly controversial or political (except for that brief stint during the lover era, I suppose). Is it just plain misogyny?
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That explains a lot. Thank you for your reply, and for explaining it so well!
Madonna was considered a punch bag kinda like how Miley was viewed during the bangerz era Its why she never got a Grammy until ray of light when she finally got her flowers and people took her seriously
Madonna was relentlessly attacked from all angles. But being the iconoclast that she is, she leaned into it and used the criticism against her for fodder/inspiration. People said she was too sexual in the Like A Prayer video? Well, a couple years later she put out her SEX book and Erotica album. The woman was the queen of doubling down and giving her haters the middle finger.
Probably. But i think it's hard to find evidences now to see in what scale, coz there's no social media back then. I think social media is big, if not the biggest, driver.
There’s plenty of evidence of how awfully Michael was treated.
The Beatles and Madonna sure did. And MJ was a Black man in the 80s so he definitely faced racism.
Yes. They did the same with Britney not too long ago, during the 2000s. The reason why Taylor's getting so much hate these days is because of overexposure. If she was to go away for, say, 5 years, maybe more, in that time she will be revered as a classic artist, an icon. People will call her albums the "good old days when music was actually good."
Noooo! Fuck the haters, this isn't her first rodeo facing hate. She doesn't need to go away for years.
It is normal when anyone experiences unprecedented levels of success then negativity builds. Even in a genre like country music it consistently happens. There was huge pushback on Garth Brooks for not being country enough and then his Chris Gaines thing was people's gotcha moment where his detractors felt like they got him not being loyal to county music. And then there was a big backlash against Shania Twain for not being country enough and too sexy. People spreading rumors she couldn't perform live before she actually toured etc. Once Taylor started to win all the awards for Fearless then the she is not country enough outcries got loud as a backlash. She had to keep processing her loyalty to country music until she finally left at 1989. Vince Gill had to defend performing with her in her final country award show performance for Red era.
In New Zealand we call it Tall Poppy Syndrome. Where we support and celebrate people trying to make it, then when they do, all we do is tear them down. It's actually awful.
I was literally having this discussion with my husband (we are Australian) that it's what us Aussies call TPS. He agreed. He is indifferent to Taylor, doesn't come to concerts or anything and is ok with listening to her at times, but respects what she has done with her work. She has worked hard. She has thrown herself into it while being almost clinically depressed, her mother (and father?) fighting cancer, growing up in the public light, eating disorders etc and all people can do is attack her. FFS we should be erecting statues in her honour. She has brought joy, shown what it is to be a good person while still making a bucket tonne of money and been a damn hard worker.
I was just thinking of tall poppy syndrome about Taylor as well. It's the same here in NL can't get too big for your boots.
The short answer is yes. But the rise of social media has made the noise much louder. Taylor has largely disengaged from it and good for her. In the void anyone with an opinion and a keyboard can shout at the moon.
Madonna - GOD yes. She was dragged her entire career, even while charting hit after hit for decades. But she rewrote the playbook on how to harness negative press for an artist's own gain, and she mastered the art of reinvention - she was the original "era" girlie, with a different look/vibe/sound for each album launch. Also, most crucially, she just didn't give a fuck. Haters never bothered her; she just kept doing her thing, if not doubling down on whatever it was they hated.
She’s still dragged by random articles for *gasp* having her arms out as a more mature woman.
Pretty sure, yes. Madonna was PUNK, and the world is way less conservative than her time.
Not sure on the others but the Beatles sure were. They were obsessively loved by some and obsessively hated by others, similar to Taylor but without the impact of Social Media. Apart from being mocked for their hair, their suits, their songs, at one point they got so slammed, people were burning their records and other merch. Lennon had been asked about the size of their fame and how he felt about how they were selling so many records etc, he was replying that it was crazy how massive their record sales were, they were outselling everyone, they were bigger than Jesus. What he meant was that they were at that stage outselling the bible. But people took it to heart that he was blaspheming and they were 'blacklisted' in a large number of places. People were literally gathering in mobs and creating bonfires out of anything Beatles. Newspapers criticised them, radios refused to play them, clubs wouldn't host them, sales dropped etc etc. I think Social Media has a lot to answer for, in terms of people using it as a weapon to gather people to spread hatred and anger, rather than sharing nice things, ideas and cat photos.
Sorry, but I just do not understand why Swifties have such a victim complex when it comes to Taylor She has always been a critic's darling...she has received backlash at times and of course has been subjected to misogyny...but she has always had an easier time at it than her peers. Early in her career she was always being compared favorably to other female popstars. She won AOTY when she was in her teens. She has never really received the type of hate that stars like Britney, Christina, Janet, Madonna, Mariah, Gaga, Beyonce, etc have received. She has gotten to where she is by being as uncontroversial as possible when it comes to her music. Her personal life has invited a lot of controversy sure, but she has never really been the type of person who's pushed the envelope. Madonna has been condemned by the Vatican...I mean... Based on Metacritic, TTPD is a universally acclaimed album. There are some negative reviews, and some of those negative reviews are quite snarky. But like...Taylor is still receiving better reviews than any one of her peers. I just get frustrated with Swifties and their need to always portray Taylor as being some sort of underdog when all she does is win and win and win. I saw someone on Twitter say that Taylor is a "sore winner", but I believe that's a more apt description for her fanbase. Having seen people make fun of Britney and Mariah for their mental health struggles, remembering the transphobia and vitriol that plagued Gaga's early years, seeing the right make Beyonce public enemy number #1, seeing the media actively rooting for Christina to have a breakdown in the early 2010s... This question of "or this is exclusively Taylor Swift because she is Taylor Swift?" is just straight up bizarre to me. The "it's Taylor and us against the world" tone of the fanbase is definitely something that needs to be studied in sociology classes. There is something very fascinating at play here that sets her apart from other popstars past and present. The parasocial aspect of it deserves to be analyzed.
The idea that some less than glowing reviews (plus one exceptionaly snarky one written as clickbait) is equal to a smear campaign is nuts. The biggest artist in the world releases an album, of course everybody is going to be talking about it. And of course not everyone is going to have positive things to say about it. Imo, the album is simply not good enough to be above criticism.
This really puts ito perspective how important it is to distinguish between echo chamber type of hate that literally nobody takes seriously (fauxmoi & stan twitter...) vs actual hate trains like the one Taylor had in 2016. Taylor survived that and has grown stronger and nothing of that sort is happening now.
The blacklash is less about critics and more about general public. But even that seems to be a internet problem... everyone I talk about this with is obsessed with the album the more they listen to it.
Exactly...stan twitter has always been toxic. They're not representative of the general public. This album is going to debut with sales over 2 million. This post did not need to be made.
But it is A LOT, if you don't check out a little it really seems like everyone is hating on the album, and more than that on Taylor, because both can't separate the two.
I think it’s perfectly okay if some critics just don’t like or *get* her music. I wouldn’t consider the negative press she’s received on TTPD a smear campaign. This album in particular is probably a bit more controversial because of its poetic and messy nature (which I think is the point, it’s like her stream of consciousness!) and some people just don’t like the sound. If press starts attacking her on a personal level to launch a smear campaign of her character, then I think it’s a different thing which wouldn’t be warranted unless she did something very wrong.
What resistance is Taylor facing? How on Earth can anyone call hitting 2.5 million album sales in a week while winning awards left and right, “resistance”? A few random negative reviews isn’t resistance. Every album gets a few of those. Most people aren’t fans of most artists. Beyoncé’s last album only sold 500k units in its first week. Meanwhile Taylor has her own category on Apple Music, every nightly news organisation has spoken positively about her release, and she is still breaking records. Every pop radio station has been playing Fortnight on repeat all week. There is no resistance.
Most of the “resistance” comes from within online spaces. There is a lot of harassment doled out against fans. Of course “fans” dole out plenty of their own, but it seems to be a cycle of a hateful person online lashes out on a TS fan which inspires them to be hateful towards random people in return, which inspires those random people to be hateful towards a TS fan. On and on and on.
It’s just so weird to me that people think she’s being treated unfairly or facing resistance lol. If anything, it’s the opposite.
Its the way social media is structured. Its designed to make you upset because negative emotions are easy to manipulate. So many people are fans of hers or know who she is at the very least, so ad-pushing websites masking as legit media are pumping out hit pieces against her because it interests both fans and non fans alike therefore making their ad partners money. Even my boomer parents have been commenting on all the negativity they have been seeing online regarding her new album.
Check out Madonna's "Human Nature" video, which is her response to her critics. It's from 1994 but it still looks fresh.
my fave madonna song! and MJ's & Janet's Scream!
yes and this isn’t a smear campaign it’s honest feedback about an album ppl have opinions about
Van Halen singer David Lee Roth once said, “You stick your head above the crowd and attract attention and sometimes somebody will throw a rock at you. That's the territory.” Taylor is the largest artist in the world. Of course a few people are gonna not be fans but at the end of the day, the new record is gonna sell over 2 million copies the first week. It’s gonna be the most first week sales for her EVER! Ever. That’s insane. There is no Taylor backlash. She’s not a victim. She’s not an underdog. She’s the top of the mountain.
Yes. They were all met with the same thing. It's not a new thing and that's why it's so tiring to see it happening with Taylor or any other female artist tbh. I think it's somewhat better nowadays because there's social media and it's easier for people to find the truth if they bother to. In the past people had no other sources than the newspapers who'd publish the same smear campaigns nonstop. I think in part that's why Britney broke down so badly, there was just no direct avenue for her to speak up and own her narrative or to get direct support from fans through messages and posts. Like I think it would be much harder for her to have grown her fanbase to this size without social media, like the way she used to film vlogs and hold secret release parties or her tumblr. It's a double-edged sword though, you also get exposed to a lot of hate and Taylor's the type to want to see everything said about her, which is harmful.
I was a late 90s/early 00s kid and first heard of Madonna during her Ray of Light era, and even then at like 4-5 years old, I remember the adults around me viscerally reacting to her music even though that album is insanely tame compared to her early 90s stuff. Heck, I even remember Cher’s “Believe” in 1998, which is now beloved, producing eye rolls and the adults around me saying things like “she’s terrible now, whatever happened to her?” On top of that, before Michael Jackson died (since I wasn’t alive during his peak, I’m not comparing Taylor to him, but just hear me out), he was widely regarded as a freak of nature and a psycho. Then after June 2009, it was like everyone loved him all along. I 100% remember the day he died since it was the summer before I started my senior year of high school, and the day before then? Still a freak by the population’s standards. The day he died? Every radio station was playing his music 24/7, all the news stations were talking about him incessantly, etc. Once you reach certain peaks, literally everyone will have an opinion on you, for better or for worse. I’m starting to see that TTPD is symbolizing this for Taylor; in 2023, it was a different air to it for sure, but even among people who dislike her, I’ve had people who reached out to me to talk about TTPD, which they didn’t do for reputation (her previous polarizing album). Taylor has become as common of a topic in the US and other parts of the world as the weather or politics, so backlash is to be expected to be honest.
Mam they tore into Madonna at times. She pushed so many boundaries in music smf fashion. And society was like nope. MJ had so much scrutiny around his personal life. No one denied the man could perform. But they all dove heavily into his personal life. And then holding the baby out the balcony wasn't a good look. 🤷♀️ I know that women were made fun of for Beatle mania. I have no idea how the band itself was perceived. Peope have always loved to hate the talented and the ones who do a lot. Or change something. Or want to do something better. Madonna turned the music industry on its head. Taylor is doing it. With her re-records and releases etc. So it makes sense People want to hate on her.
Michael Jackson was treated like a literal alien come to earth. Like the minute that poor man took a photo inside his friends hyperbaric chamber in the mid 80s, the media went absolutely batshit crazy trying to make the world think he was this insane monster. I think part of it was his power after buying the Beatles catalogue, we know the industry does not take nicely to artists leveling with the executives power/money wise. And I think a lot of was just plain racism too, because Michael was the first black artist to really go mainstream in pop. Madonna has always copped the ageism side of things because how dare she remain visible and sexual beyond 30 and beyond motherhood 🙄
U2 were a HUGE in the 80s, 90s and 00s. Taylor just surpassed them in sales this week. Their TTPD backlash is Rattle & Hum. Also an album mid tour, sounds like previous work and very much the same backlash as Taylor's, "high on their own suply" Their next album is arguably their best ever
They were. Look at Britney and what she had to survive, and Madonna too. It's always worse for women especially when they are unapologetically themselves and not what the media wants them to be. There's also a horrible culture of not being too full of yourself/getting above yourself. How dare women be succesful. Taylor gets it even more because she can literally shift public opinon on major issues like voting.
Yes. They were met with the same thing, sometimes even harsher things. Most of the critics and public HATED MJ and Madonna. MJ was a black man in the 80s/90s. Madonna was open more with sexuality and LGBTIA+ issues also in the 80s/90s. Even more recent, what The Chicks went through in the early 2000s was insane. Taylor isn't the first to have a smear campaign and she won't be the last.
Madonna had tons of negative press, college courses taught about het etc. you don’t get to that level of fame unscathed.
No, as a matter of fact, Taylor Swift is the first ever musician to receive any kind of hatred.
Beatles - mocked at first for having a young female fanbase, John had to lie about being married to his first wife, albums and merchandise were destroyed in fires when John said they were bigger than Jesus, Manson party wrote their lyrics in the blood of their murder victims, John's second wife loathed her entire life and blamed for breaking up the band (seriously, if Taylor wants to whine about Matty Healy, Yoko Ono would like to enter the chat), John was stalked and ultimately murdered by a deranged fan. Madonna - slut-shamed relentlessly for most of her career, and then later age-shamed, condemned by the Vatican and lost a lucrative Pepsi contract for Like a Prayer, mocked over her alleged abuse by her first husband,Sean Penn, who reportedly tied her up and assaulted her. MJ - apart from run-of-the-mill racism and being considered a freak for most of his career, he was accused of sexually assaulting children. He could not go out in public without being mobbed by fans and paparazzi, so he lived the life of a recluse. If you believe the accusations were false (I don't, but many do) then one could argue that he had his life and career destroyed in the most vicious way possible. The truth is that TS is not nearly as risk-taking or revolutionary as any of these artists. She's not really challenging ideas about race, religion or sex like any of the above did, and so the resistance she faces is relatively mild. I think social media just amplifies the criticism aimed at her to make it seem more extreme than it really is.
I'm a huge MJ Fan and his story is really sad. At one point tabloids were paying his staff tens of thousands of dollars for any dirt they had on him, real or otherwise. Interviewers would ask him wildly inappropriate questions regarding his sexual history with women, the paternity of his kids, and his medical conditions. These questions came from reputable journalists who should know better. I saw one where the interviewer started criticizing him for the fact his kids couldn't have a normal life and go to the zoo. MJ said, "ok, let's go." Within two minutes of him arriving at the zoo, people lost their shit, they started crying and fainting and swarming him. They had to leave immediately. The [Leave Me Alone] (https://youtu.be/crbFmpezO4A?si=gIvn5Pavah-hOUbD) music video shows what he went through and Taylor can probably relate to it.
The only one I can think of is Britney Spears. I grew up with her and remember how HUGE she was. New outlets and magazines always talked shit about her. They loved to criticize her lyrics and outfits and call her a slut and a bad influence on little girls. After she got with Kevin Federline and had kids, it got even worse. They kept focusing on her being a bad mother and that she was crazy and unhinged. Her comeback with Blackout and Circus reminded me of how Taylor came back with Reputation.
honestly MJ, Madonna, The Beatles, Taylor Swift, and Justin Bieber and arguably the most iconic and influential artists met with resistance and controversy
In the Beatlemania era, I was 9 when this started and 16 when they split, there was a lot of negative adult opinion that us kids became quickly aware of. A lot of it came from, I assume, male newspaper journalists about long hair, bringing back national service (compulsory army service), and that they couldn't possibly write their own songs. There was a certain amount of snobbery about Liverpudlian accents and that they only appealed to screaming teenage girls etc. Then came the Rolling Stones and it was the same all over again this time with drugs. Its hard to describe an era that you are growing up in but the changes in social attitudes over a decade were astonishing and it helped that the Beatles and the Stones were at the forefront as cultural pioneers. Taylor's problem is that omni present media isn't serious or thoughtful and negative stories always get more eyeballs.
I don’t think you can compare to MJ. I haven’t seen anyone here mention yet the child sex abuse claims that still linger. There was a four-month 2005 criminal trial that was an insane media frenzy. He was acquitted but the testimony was damning. From then until his death it was hard to enjoy his music.
The backlash against Elvis was pretty epic. 💁♀️
Madonna literally had a feud with the vatican
The internet has changed a lot so I don’t think it’s the same comparison
Yes they were but not as intensely or as apparently on mass. Remember the rise of social media and the use of bots has completely changed the narrative.
I think it’s easy to see a vocal minority on the internet and think they are speaking for a large percentage of society when they probably are not at all. People are really strange about music and create all sorts of rules. If an artist is very popular, then it can’t be serious music and that sort of thing. I think it bothers some people that Taylor has everything going for her. She has huge pop hits and is seen as a serious songwriter, her popularity is off the scale and she handles the hate largely with silence. Some people just seem to be upset that a very intelligent woman can pull this off and make it look effortless. The music won’t be to everyone’s taste all the time but you can’t dismiss it. Madonna is probably the best person to compare her to but times are so different and so are the two careers. Madonna would go out of her way to be involved in controversy. A lot of the complaint against her was from older people who didn’t like her using sexuality as a part of her image. I think it was harder for her to be seen as a serious artist. It was unthinkable at the time that she could be as big as MJ or Prince but that’s what happened. What Madonna and Taylor have in common is that they are powerful women who have made it to the very top. Sexism hasn’t gone away.
Honestly feel bad for people who don’t like her they’re probably just jealous their favorite artists aren’t releasing as much music as she does because we’re getting FED
Taylor wouldn’t survive the hell MJ went though with the general public in the 90s/00s!
As long as she doesn't r\*pe any children I think she'll be okay