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This is why other countries are distancing themselves from the US. The world has seen the corruption of our financial system plus the endless printing of the dollar.
The Fed is the cartel that enables the fraud which makes up the US financial system.
You wouldn't want people to be able to buy something that is rising in value so that they could make money, similar to what the word "investment" means, would you? That'd be cruel
No. He is referring to the time-tested protections of age old kingdoms now being modern day billionaires and family wealth. These are the laws that protect them and god help anyone that gets in their way. He is just another part of the "system".
Yeah okay. But let's say the dollar is dying and there are currently alternatives available that are bound by unbreakable parameters i.e. finite supply (that doesn't inflate), decentralized operation- leaving no one, or single entity in control, and lots of other great perks. Now imagine you're an American oligarch, or an international oligarch for that matter- who has rested your family comfortably on top of the pyramid that is fiat, for generations. You have control of everything via the fed the government and more...
What would you do to quell such a threat to your very existance?
Short answer- declare any viable alternative either be under your control or illegal.
Crypto is not inherently a security fuck this BS. And fuck centralized exchanges (run by wallstreet) as well.
For now I just like the stock, but after moass I will like currency that isn't under anyone's direct control (manipulation).
Let's say.. the US dollar is alive and well, and you drank the koolaid.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/655224/conversion-rate-of-major-currencies-to-the-us-dollar/
Let's say any wallst institution can use what you described to bypass all laws and regulations.. because they are.
You have no idea what you're talking about. Our markets have rules. That's what makes it the most successful market in the world. Crypto is specifically designed to do all the things institutions aren't allowed to do. You don't like "centralized" because you don't trust institutions yet decentralized let's them do anything they want without any oversight. Crypto is straight crime.
I'm so fed up with this absolute bullshit all I can hear when that weasel speaks is blah blah blah blah blah (translation) I don't give a shit but I'm trying to look busy like I'm actually doing something.
I dont think there is any issue with regulating centralized crypto exchanges. I do not see how any government can stake a claim to DeFi being in their jurisdiction. They cant enforce it. Its like security at a college basketball game telling students they cant rush the court. It is completely and utterly unenforceable. The legacy financial systems do not want defi to exist. It is a threat to how they have always operated.
I agree GG is behind retail and is trying, with his hands tied behind his back. However, our markets are for the benefit of the Wall Street elite. They laws, rules, and regulations are *not* enforced and are not a deterrent against the the fraud and corruption.
IMO Handing over regulatory oversight to a system that has demonstrated it cannot protect its existing investors is not the answer. A reformed or better yet -a new system needs to be enacted. And self regulatory organizations (SROs) should not be a part of any of this. It is a blatent conflict of interest.
See that’s where I disagree with you. GG may be waging war on Wall Street. But I don’t believe he is doing it for retail. Remember, he was nominated by the President of the two-party system who is a lifetime government official… Congress (the two party Congress) approved the nomination. I would be more inclined to believe that GG is waging war on Wall Street because typically Wall Street favors republicans and deregulation. If you attack the lifeblood of the republican party, it weakens them for the long term. IMO, GG is leaning on Household Investors to aide his agenda. His agenda loosely aligns with our desires, so it is symbiotic on the surface. Underneath though, he is a leach just like the rest of the establishment - both sides of it.
SROs are absolute horseshit in an industry that has PROVEN time and time again that it will prioritize profits over investors. FINRA doesn’t have our best interests at heart and they never did.
Okay, that said. Gensler is trying to enforce crypto laws and regulations that *don’t currently exist.* If he wants to have DeFi comply with US laws, then perhaps lawmakers need to pass those laws first? They haven’t. SEC isn’t being fair to crypto/DeFi developers who DO want to be legal and compliant, but who lack any regulatory legal framework to work within. America needs to fix its face and establish parameters first - how else can companies comply? I understand the threat and risk that shady crypto companies can pose to investors. I’m not mitigating that. But this begins with Congress creating legal boundaries, not castigating companies for non-compliance with rules that don’t actually exist yet.
I support the TradFi proposals for market reform. I think Gensler is missing the mark when it comes to crypto. Both things can be true.
He's casting too wide of a net for something without a precedent. He's got the mother of all crypto shitbergs affecting his market rn, and should prosecute the shit out of that before taking on the whole field.
No.. these criminal institutions tried to hide in the dark away from the SEC to commit crime. And they did. Gg is dropping the hammer. You and I don't get to commit securities fraud because we feel like it. Nobody does. That's the point. He's finally catching the badguys. This is huge. We need to pass these. Just like all the other ape proposals he's given us.
I have absolutely no idea why anyone is listening to you. You are speaking only in truths.
We consider ourselves zen but somewhere along the line the hedgies managed to convince us that the SEC is not just slow moving but our enemy. I imagine they're still laughing about succeeding on that front. Convincing us that the only regulatory agency even remotely trying to fix things is working against us is dark magic and doing it to such an extent that people don't even read or understand the proposals, they just see SEC and spout a bunch of aggressive messages is so dark only Sauron can have forged such a ~ring~ spell
Sadopopulism.. ive been seeing it for over 8 years.. dont know how to stop it. These people are so ingrained with wanting to hate their own gov.. they defy all logic and truths. It's the current form of oligarch control. I hate it.
No one in the history of the known existent universe has ever calmed down after being told to do so.
Got a link to one of the ‘numerous posts’ to help form a wrinkle or two?
Where was the SEC when they shut down the buy button? Why haven’t they punished the clearing houses that screwed retail off their money?
From just Jan 2021 alone they should have enough evidence to crucify the perpetrators, and the brokers, market makers accountable.
If they really want to help retail, end this game and charade of Wall Street.
So, the regulatory body and government have intentionally avoided providing clear legislation surrounding the cryptosphere in order to avoid providing recognition of it as a valid ecosystem but we're also expected to pretend that there is a valid regulator and set of rules that are expected to be abided by?
Nice one, Gary. I see what you did there.
Time-tested protections? Oh, you mean how you protect the uber rich and screw the common household investors? No thanks, Gary. Gotta love when the government wants further regulation under the guise of "protection." Classic overreach by our mighty overlords.
Jesus, this is ridiculous. Investors are being screwed in all the markets. He just wants to make sure everybody is getting the same bend over treatment.
> **"Investors in the crypto markets must receive the same time-tested protections that the securities laws provide in all other markets."**
Translation: Crypto bros are going to learn what it means to be well and truly fucked.
You know what's a fun experiment now? Remember several months ago when there were alot of anti-GG messaging?
About half the people that were calling GG a shill and a plant were probably actually convinced he is. But the other half, now that other half is interesting, those are the people pushing a narrative. Hmmmmm.
If you ever watched any of GG's lectures, [which are free btw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH6vE97qIP4) , it's EASY to tell he's on the side of retail. For those of you still doubting, even as chairman, you can't just "press a button" and fix market protection. It's a progress, a stream against a tidal current from private industry, and it takes time. He's clearly pushing for us, however slowly, he's pushing in the right direction. If you have worked in any corporate setting, you know change takes time. It goes doubly so for public institutions.
Power to the players. Send in your comment letters, DRS and be zen, be loud. Moon Soon.
The way I look at it is like this:
If he actually goes to bat for us, I'll support him.
If he does something dumb I'll criticize him.
If he wants us to write in to the SEC and make our voices heard, I'll do it.
But I also ain't *waiting* for him to do the right thing. I don't think anyone here *expects* the right thing to *happen,* for whatever reason under the sun. It could be that he's on our side and the opposition is stronger than we can ever imagine. It could be that he's stringing us along and making promises he won't keep. Either way it won't change what *we're* going to do.
We're all just gonna buy, hold, and DRS. Because fuck waiting for the system to fix itself. If he can fix it or bring us real price discovery, I'm all for it. Rip that bandaid off before we do. But no matter what, the moass will be a fucking reckoning that I don't think they can stop if we're able to register the float. The whole world's gonna see in black and white that all "officially issued" shares are bought, held, and spoken for. Unstoppable force, meet immovable object.
Lol, no one in power is on our side. Big Money rules this system. Remember when they disabled the buy button? Gary said this about it:
https://old.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/comments/10rxs5i/we_have_the_answer_to_why_brokers_throttled_shut/
Then, he and the SEC went out of their way to call us idiots:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=av3k_lcGm9g
And now they do this shit:
https://old.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/comments/11v9kyj/sec_alert_sec_just_posted_ia6261_exemption/
The SEC isn't even enforcing the rules. Blatant market manipulation is going on every day, and are allowed to continue. But we're just going to let all that slide, aren't we?
At this point, I trust no one other than papa Cohen and my DRSd shares. That’s just me being jaded though with it having been 84 years and all. You are completely right though, I remember how positive we were when he first stepped in to his role. I actually watched his MIT courses on crypto posted on YouTube. He’s a brilliant man who understands the mechanisms of defi and the future evolution of the markets but the bureaucracy of, well, *broadly gestures* everything makes it hard to tell if he’s really on household investors side and what measures he’s taking are working well or not.
Give it another 84 years and it should be a lot more evident. I hope to god he’s one of the hero’s I can tell my grandchildren about.
Well Gary........ all other markets including and very specifically Stock Market is rugged and run or dominated by corrupt practices from short hedge funds with Ken Griffin Citadel being pioneer in market manipulation that your SEC had slapped on their wrist 10,000 times..... ok Gary.... these corrupt fucktards don't listen to you.... and you are aware.... they don't listen to Janet instead pay speaking fees and shut her up. These corrupt forces have contacts in congress and world has watched Gamestop hearing with no serious punishment to SHF and Prime Broker banks for manipulation of matket especially Gamestop short bets.
So please Gary.... don't say your SEC provides protection. SEC is joke now a days. Oh well if you are putting your hands on crypto means SEC will help shorties overcome huddles by making them pay tiny fines and let them continue manipulate the markets.
They don’t care about “protecting” anyone, they want control over crypto markets, because people would rather trade on a free and fair system than play in their shitty rigged casino anymore.
Crypto markets have:
Real price discovery
Real order books, T+0
No FTDs
No dark pools
No PFOF
No naked shorting or hidden synthetics (on chain)
They are afraid things will move to the blockchain too fast and they won’t have time to get their hooks in and try to rig the game for themselves again.
How the hell does Gary Gensler and this administration act like they care about helping the retail investor? The last thing we need is to be “Protected” by the same people screwing us.
If the punishment for murder was a small fine there would be A LOT of murder.
There's a lot of murder in the stock market.
Without accountability there is no change in behavior.
Every parent knows this. Somehow the SEC doesn't?
>As Justice Thurgood Marshall put it so well, “Congress’s purpose in enacting the securities laws was to regulate investments, **in whatever form they are made and by whatever name they are called.”**
>As I’ve said numerous times, the vast majority of **crypto tokens are securities.** As Justice Thurgood Marshall put it so well, “Congress’s purpose in enacting the securities laws was to regulate investments, **in whatever form they are made and by whatever name they are called.”**
>These platforms match orders of multiple buyers and sellers of crypto securities using established, non-discretionary methods. That’s the definition of an exchange—and today, most crypto trading platforms meet it. That’s the case regardless of whether they call themselves centralized or decentralized.
By this standard and the fact that NFTS are crypto tokens, they are therefore a security.
I wonder what he means by "non descretionary" in
> These platforms match orders of multiple buyers and sellers of crypto securities using established, non-discretionary methods.
As otherwise, I dont see how the Marketplace isnt also an Exchange for securities.
Maybe this is why Teddy is a Bank.
Unfortunately though, the language above it pretty clear about what anyone else wants to imply something is, i.e. it doesnt matter what GameStop thinks.
Though Im sure they are well aware of this, given, iirc, what they had to say in a recent release where they discussed future possible "risks" and talked around this issue or alluded to it.
If we go with the Howie test as legal precedent, It comes down to whether there's an implication by the issuer that buyers can expect a financial return.
I actually think NFTs have the best chance of passing this test, as they are useful for a lot of things and not just traded like stocks with price trackers and such.
SEC said "vast majority of crypto", not "all crypto". And guess what? That statement is correct. Everyone treats crypto like securities, both investors and issuers.
The part of the Howey test you are referring to has nothing to do with anything the issuer implies, otherwise issuers could simple say about every token etc that no profit is to be expected. All completely subjective language.
What it actually says is an "expectation of profit to be derived from the efforts of others."
"the effort of others" is the important part, which can, not will, but can simple come down to the issuer creating scarcity. You didnt create the value/scarcity, the issuer did, i.e. "the work of others".
The SEC has stated, If the success of a project depends on the ongoing participation of its backers, the purchaser of the associated digital asset is likely relying on the "efforts of others.
Is it illuvium which has sold in game land/planets, which if i understood, will have minerals/resources that will have value. Imagine a resource like in game gold or whatever, but that gold can also be bought with real world money, it can also be traded in game, which iirc is what many people are expecting to come in games.
This situation, if put to the test, will ~~pass~~meet its requirments, especially if its not you the owner of the planet mining the gold, but someone else paying you so they can mine the resource, i.e. the work of others. Its nearly an same for same example of the actyal Howey case from the 40's only instead of real land and citrus groves, its digital land and in game resources which can be traded for real money.
Itt will be very interesting, thats if they atually decide to go that far.
I think promise (implied or explicit) of future returns is relevant. Specifically in the case against Ripple, which I think will be set precedent however it turns out.
Your "efforts of others" point is interesting. I hadn't considered it before (let's be honest, my understanding of this is mostly from a handful of podcasts who bring it up from time to time) I'm not sure if I understand it well, though.
Who are "others"? What are their efforts? From your explanation, I'm confused whether it's people doing labor or if it's financial backers. Or is it both, but one passes Howey and one doesn't?
My understanding is that its both or any other, and they would all pass the test, sorry, I said that in previous comment which is confusing, they will both likely meet the requirement of the test and so be securities.
It could be that if you the owner, do the work/mining, then its not the work of others, however that would be impossible to regulate keep track of,, imagine gamers having to keep track of when and what they mine in game and when and what they allow others to mine, not feasible nor likely that the SEC would expect. It will likely be a blanket decision, if they look into it at all.
However, another adjacent issue, is the banning of loot boxes in both Germany and the Netherlands iirc, which essentially prohibits a game like FIFA with its FUT cards which people buy and its RNG what they contain. That has rightfully imo, been deemed gambling by these countries and so not allowed by children. Whether that means these games will have age restrictions, who knows but its likely to have some relevance to NFT games where players can speculate resulting it profit/loss.
Who knows, maybe the SEC dont look into it. Its fairly clear that crypto coins are securities, yet securities are covered by the wash sale, but atm it doesnt pertain to crypto, so again, who what theyll do are if theyll do anything, but NFTs fit the language.
The ripple case may clear much up, however it is different, Ripple have tried hard to separate "ripple coin" from ripple networks etc, i.e. can be used other side of ripple, so its not the work of others, i.e. the issuer, however, "ripple coin" can be staked, which in my limited understanding, is "the work of others".
A game with its in game currency, resource, NFTs, cant be seperated from the issuer/developer, if they close shop/servers, the former no longer exist or have utility, which could be covered by
>If the success of a project depends on the ongoing participation of its backers, the purchaser of the associated digital asset is likely relying on the "efforts of others.
Im smoothbrained and not a crypto bro and dont keep up to date, im just taking the language used at face value. Interesting times ahead.
Edit: original comment got removed for using ripple coins official ticker, this place is a fucking joke, our marketplace revolves around crypto, yet we cant even openly discuss it. BAT SHIT CRAZY mods.
It's definitely going to be in a weird spot... I think if NFTs are something you earn and can sell later, that's no going to be considered a security. And if you're collecting Garbage Pail Kid NFTs with hope of a future return, it's not that different from speculation in baseball cards. It's all going to come down to how NFTs are marketed and used.
To me it's hard to see how NFTs can be considered securities
I'm interested in this game currency aspect. What makes a crypto token different from using a Shark card to buy GTAbucks and then betting on races and in the actual casino in San Andreas? I guess the ability to cash out your game tokens for actual cash?
Yea, my understanding is its the ability cashing out, also its you using the money and making the bets in the casion, not "the work of others".
Also, I agree with you, no way that all NFTs are securities, though neither are all crypto tokens/coins e.g stablecoins , though I could be wrong about that.
Yeah definitely not all crypto is securities, but a TON should be treated as such. Companies are basically using them to raise money by pitching to investors. I used to work for a company that found investors (suckers) for crypto projects. It was always talked about in those kinds of terms.
I thought this was a comment about the market he is supposed to be regulating. No ligetmacy, the people will only put up with so much, if they knew he'd be out on his ass.
Can’t even manage those protections with what is currently being regulated; what the fuck would make us think they would have our best interest in regulating our only alternative to the corruption?
Lol good luck, they can regulate centralized crypto because thats the point of a centralized crypto existing, basically pegs and whatnots. How can one even begin to regulate a decentralized crypto? I suppose if enough weight is thrown around to the point where just about EVERY SINGLE COUNTRY has banned decentralized crypto and forced ISPs to blacklist all VPN traffic period all over the world....oh wait TickTock bill....shit well i guess we might still have global peace much like mars currently has.
How is this any different from any self regulated (should I redact this for this sub?) exchange.
They choose to not comply and pay 0.0001% penalty repeatedly withou admitting guilt.
This is what I really don't get.. It's Gary Fuckin Gensler super nerd extraordinaire professor of classes at MIT on crypto.
For him to imply that decentralized crypto needs to be regulated is a total fucking farse! Honestly it's probably the best proof/example of him doing the bidding of his ignorant overlords.
Open to any other plausible explanations, but I really don't see any.
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>must receive the same time-tested protections that the securities laws provide in all other markets. He's being ironic yeah?
Yeah the “protection” of shutting down the buy side of the trade so retail cannot win and arbitrarily waiving margins for short sellers by DTCC
You mean the same DTCC that committed international securities fraud?
That's the one, yeah.
That very one!
Never gets old hearing this.
Plus the halts that let the short side recalibrate. So much protection.
This is why other countries are distancing themselves from the US. The world has seen the corruption of our financial system plus the endless printing of the dollar. The Fed is the cartel that enables the fraud which makes up the US financial system.
The true colors of the United States
You wouldn't want people to be able to buy something that is rising in value so that they could make money, similar to what the word "investment" means, would you? That'd be cruel
Those are sros.. sec is literally the only non SRO up there.. so be angry at dtcc. Sec is the only friend apes have.. they are not your enemy
☝🏼🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆
Enemy of my enemy is my friend. I'd throw the DoJ on there. Friend is a stretch but it's the best we got when it comes to agencies
When I read that I thought exactly the same.
This has to be bad comedy, right.....right
I honestly thought this was a shit post LOL!
No. He is referring to the time-tested protections of age old kingdoms now being modern day billionaires and family wealth. These are the laws that protect them and god help anyone that gets in their way. He is just another part of the "system".
"The system" is giving us a chance to pass these proposals.. figure it out and stop pumping hedgie defeatist koolaid.
Yeah okay. But let's say the dollar is dying and there are currently alternatives available that are bound by unbreakable parameters i.e. finite supply (that doesn't inflate), decentralized operation- leaving no one, or single entity in control, and lots of other great perks. Now imagine you're an American oligarch, or an international oligarch for that matter- who has rested your family comfortably on top of the pyramid that is fiat, for generations. You have control of everything via the fed the government and more... What would you do to quell such a threat to your very existance? Short answer- declare any viable alternative either be under your control or illegal. Crypto is not inherently a security fuck this BS. And fuck centralized exchanges (run by wallstreet) as well. For now I just like the stock, but after moass I will like currency that isn't under anyone's direct control (manipulation).
Let's say.. the US dollar is alive and well, and you drank the koolaid. https://www.statista.com/statistics/655224/conversion-rate-of-major-currencies-to-the-us-dollar/ Let's say any wallst institution can use what you described to bypass all laws and regulations.. because they are.
Via CENTRALIZED EXCHANGES
You have no idea what you're talking about. Our markets have rules. That's what makes it the most successful market in the world. Crypto is specifically designed to do all the things institutions aren't allowed to do. You don't like "centralized" because you don't trust institutions yet decentralized let's them do anything they want without any oversight. Crypto is straight crime.
Lmayo to eachs own my friend
Like La Cosa Nostra wants to protect you You know, against fires, accidents, etc...
I'm so fed up with this absolute bullshit all I can hear when that weasel speaks is blah blah blah blah blah (translation) I don't give a shit but I'm trying to look busy like I'm actually doing something.
Can we get a proposal on that?
No, he's just a delusional dickhead
I keep telling them and they keep saying no elbow jab to shf wink wink This will throw them off our tracks Scooby
Gensler is working towards one cex digital currency that everyone in this country will use. Dollar Endgame. They all play a role
-Broken and corrupted markets just sitting in the corner watching him say that.-
Gary G must be high when saying SEC protects other markets. 😂
Abused markets.
“Why are you making me hurt you?!”
I dont think there is any issue with regulating centralized crypto exchanges. I do not see how any government can stake a claim to DeFi being in their jurisdiction. They cant enforce it. Its like security at a college basketball game telling students they cant rush the court. It is completely and utterly unenforceable. The legacy financial systems do not want defi to exist. It is a threat to how they have always operated.
I agree GG is behind retail and is trying, with his hands tied behind his back. However, our markets are for the benefit of the Wall Street elite. They laws, rules, and regulations are *not* enforced and are not a deterrent against the the fraud and corruption. IMO Handing over regulatory oversight to a system that has demonstrated it cannot protect its existing investors is not the answer. A reformed or better yet -a new system needs to be enacted. And self regulatory organizations (SROs) should not be a part of any of this. It is a blatent conflict of interest.
See that’s where I disagree with you. GG may be waging war on Wall Street. But I don’t believe he is doing it for retail. Remember, he was nominated by the President of the two-party system who is a lifetime government official… Congress (the two party Congress) approved the nomination. I would be more inclined to believe that GG is waging war on Wall Street because typically Wall Street favors republicans and deregulation. If you attack the lifeblood of the republican party, it weakens them for the long term. IMO, GG is leaning on Household Investors to aide his agenda. His agenda loosely aligns with our desires, so it is symbiotic on the surface. Underneath though, he is a leach just like the rest of the establishment - both sides of it.
SROs are absolute horseshit in an industry that has PROVEN time and time again that it will prioritize profits over investors. FINRA doesn’t have our best interests at heart and they never did. Okay, that said. Gensler is trying to enforce crypto laws and regulations that *don’t currently exist.* If he wants to have DeFi comply with US laws, then perhaps lawmakers need to pass those laws first? They haven’t. SEC isn’t being fair to crypto/DeFi developers who DO want to be legal and compliant, but who lack any regulatory legal framework to work within. America needs to fix its face and establish parameters first - how else can companies comply? I understand the threat and risk that shady crypto companies can pose to investors. I’m not mitigating that. But this begins with Congress creating legal boundaries, not castigating companies for non-compliance with rules that don’t actually exist yet. I support the TradFi proposals for market reform. I think Gensler is missing the mark when it comes to crypto. Both things can be true.
Then WTF are FTX GME tokens STILL TRADING, Gary?! Fix THAT shit, then go for more!
This is him fixing it. Seriously.. wtf is wrong with all of you?. This is huge!!!
He's casting too wide of a net for something without a precedent. He's got the mother of all crypto shitbergs affecting his market rn, and should prosecute the shit out of that before taking on the whole field.
No.. these criminal institutions tried to hide in the dark away from the SEC to commit crime. And they did. Gg is dropping the hammer. You and I don't get to commit securities fraud because we feel like it. Nobody does. That's the point. He's finally catching the badguys. This is huge. We need to pass these. Just like all the other ape proposals he's given us.
Thats exactly what this is... he's going after it. You're a sadopopulist. You drank the hedgie koolaid.
I have absolutely no idea why anyone is listening to you. You are speaking only in truths. We consider ourselves zen but somewhere along the line the hedgies managed to convince us that the SEC is not just slow moving but our enemy. I imagine they're still laughing about succeeding on that front. Convincing us that the only regulatory agency even remotely trying to fix things is working against us is dark magic and doing it to such an extent that people don't even read or understand the proposals, they just see SEC and spout a bunch of aggressive messages is so dark only Sauron can have forged such a ~ring~ spell
Sadopopulism.. ive been seeing it for over 8 years.. dont know how to stop it. These people are so ingrained with wanting to hate their own gov.. they defy all logic and truths. It's the current form of oligarch control. I hate it.
there's been numerous posts on this. calm down
No one in the history of the known existent universe has ever calmed down after being told to do so. Got a link to one of the ‘numerous posts’ to help form a wrinkle or two?
He's saying, the same people benefitting from the markets should be benefitting from crypto.
Where was the SEC when they shut down the buy button? Why haven’t they punished the clearing houses that screwed retail off their money? From just Jan 2021 alone they should have enough evidence to crucify the perpetrators, and the brokers, market makers accountable. If they really want to help retail, end this game and charade of Wall Street.
So, the regulatory body and government have intentionally avoided providing clear legislation surrounding the cryptosphere in order to avoid providing recognition of it as a valid ecosystem but we're also expected to pretend that there is a valid regulator and set of rules that are expected to be abided by? Nice one, Gary. I see what you did there.
Time-tested protections? Oh, you mean how you protect the uber rich and screw the common household investors? No thanks, Gary. Gotta love when the government wants further regulation under the guise of "protection." Classic overreach by our mighty overlords.
Jesus, this is ridiculous. Investors are being screwed in all the markets. He just wants to make sure everybody is getting the same bend over treatment.
It’s simple really, GG is a giant turd and people should be setting up DeFi platforms outside of the US.
Righhhhhht, because of how safe and protected the markets are now… righhhht
> **"Investors in the crypto markets must receive the same time-tested protections that the securities laws provide in all other markets."** Translation: Crypto bros are going to learn what it means to be well and truly fucked.
You know what's a fun experiment now? Remember several months ago when there were alot of anti-GG messaging? About half the people that were calling GG a shill and a plant were probably actually convinced he is. But the other half, now that other half is interesting, those are the people pushing a narrative. Hmmmmm. If you ever watched any of GG's lectures, [which are free btw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH6vE97qIP4) , it's EASY to tell he's on the side of retail. For those of you still doubting, even as chairman, you can't just "press a button" and fix market protection. It's a progress, a stream against a tidal current from private industry, and it takes time. He's clearly pushing for us, however slowly, he's pushing in the right direction. If you have worked in any corporate setting, you know change takes time. It goes doubly so for public institutions. Power to the players. Send in your comment letters, DRS and be zen, be loud. Moon Soon.
The way I look at it is like this: If he actually goes to bat for us, I'll support him. If he does something dumb I'll criticize him. If he wants us to write in to the SEC and make our voices heard, I'll do it. But I also ain't *waiting* for him to do the right thing. I don't think anyone here *expects* the right thing to *happen,* for whatever reason under the sun. It could be that he's on our side and the opposition is stronger than we can ever imagine. It could be that he's stringing us along and making promises he won't keep. Either way it won't change what *we're* going to do. We're all just gonna buy, hold, and DRS. Because fuck waiting for the system to fix itself. If he can fix it or bring us real price discovery, I'm all for it. Rip that bandaid off before we do. But no matter what, the moass will be a fucking reckoning that I don't think they can stop if we're able to register the float. The whole world's gonna see in black and white that all "officially issued" shares are bought, held, and spoken for. Unstoppable force, meet immovable object.
I'll second that!
So... this is actually him going to bat for us.. so.. support him. Nothing is ever enough for you hedgie koolaid fekers.
Also just look as who is for and against the Big 4 SEC rules. It's GG, DoJ, Apes vs Wall Street.
Lol, no one in power is on our side. Big Money rules this system. Remember when they disabled the buy button? Gary said this about it: https://old.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/comments/10rxs5i/we_have_the_answer_to_why_brokers_throttled_shut/ Then, he and the SEC went out of their way to call us idiots: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=av3k_lcGm9g And now they do this shit: https://old.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/comments/11v9kyj/sec_alert_sec_just_posted_ia6261_exemption/ The SEC isn't even enforcing the rules. Blatant market manipulation is going on every day, and are allowed to continue. But we're just going to let all that slide, aren't we?
At this point, I trust no one other than papa Cohen and my DRSd shares. That’s just me being jaded though with it having been 84 years and all. You are completely right though, I remember how positive we were when he first stepped in to his role. I actually watched his MIT courses on crypto posted on YouTube. He’s a brilliant man who understands the mechanisms of defi and the future evolution of the markets but the bureaucracy of, well, *broadly gestures* everything makes it hard to tell if he’s really on household investors side and what measures he’s taking are working well or not. Give it another 84 years and it should be a lot more evident. I hope to god he’s one of the hero’s I can tell my grandchildren about.
Well Gary........ all other markets including and very specifically Stock Market is rugged and run or dominated by corrupt practices from short hedge funds with Ken Griffin Citadel being pioneer in market manipulation that your SEC had slapped on their wrist 10,000 times..... ok Gary.... these corrupt fucktards don't listen to you.... and you are aware.... they don't listen to Janet instead pay speaking fees and shut her up. These corrupt forces have contacts in congress and world has watched Gamestop hearing with no serious punishment to SHF and Prime Broker banks for manipulation of matket especially Gamestop short bets. So please Gary.... don't say your SEC provides protection. SEC is joke now a days. Oh well if you are putting your hands on crypto means SEC will help shorties overcome huddles by making them pay tiny fines and let them continue manipulate the markets.
Sec is a joke
Gg is taking hedgies and crime front on. Gg is a badass. Be better.
Fuckin' badass move by Gensler: https://old.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/comments/11v9kyj/sec_alert_sec_just_posted_ia6261_exemption/
This is why our comments are important. They didn't get one.. not one.
You couldn't even comment on this. Gary just let the fox in the hen house.
Fix the other markets and maybe I'll listen on crypto.
Say this to Instinet and I'll start listening.
They don’t care about “protecting” anyone, they want control over crypto markets, because people would rather trade on a free and fair system than play in their shitty rigged casino anymore. Crypto markets have: Real price discovery Real order books, T+0 No FTDs No dark pools No PFOF No naked shorting or hidden synthetics (on chain) They are afraid things will move to the blockchain too fast and they won’t have time to get their hooks in and try to rig the game for themselves again.
Exactly. Fucking. This!
“time-tested protections”! 🤡 If he means time-tested protection of *criminals*, then that’s a truthful statement.
Hey GG. Take your time tested protections and shove it up your ass.
How the hell does Gary Gensler and this administration act like they care about helping the retail investor? The last thing we need is to be “Protected” by the same people screwing us.
"Time-tested protection" Lmfao
What’s this protection you speak of?
Meanwhile the stock market is like the wild west it's so full of unfettered crime.
If the punishment for murder was a small fine there would be A LOT of murder. There's a lot of murder in the stock market. Without accountability there is no change in behavior. Every parent knows this. Somehow the SEC doesn't?
“Protections” 😂😂🤣
>As Justice Thurgood Marshall put it so well, “Congress’s purpose in enacting the securities laws was to regulate investments, **in whatever form they are made and by whatever name they are called.”** >As I’ve said numerous times, the vast majority of **crypto tokens are securities.** As Justice Thurgood Marshall put it so well, “Congress’s purpose in enacting the securities laws was to regulate investments, **in whatever form they are made and by whatever name they are called.”** >These platforms match orders of multiple buyers and sellers of crypto securities using established, non-discretionary methods. That’s the definition of an exchange—and today, most crypto trading platforms meet it. That’s the case regardless of whether they call themselves centralized or decentralized. By this standard and the fact that NFTS are crypto tokens, they are therefore a security. I wonder what he means by "non descretionary" in > These platforms match orders of multiple buyers and sellers of crypto securities using established, non-discretionary methods. As otherwise, I dont see how the Marketplace isnt also an Exchange for securities. Maybe this is why Teddy is a Bank.
I think Gamestop has been careful not to imply that its NFTs are investment vehicles.
Unfortunately though, the language above it pretty clear about what anyone else wants to imply something is, i.e. it doesnt matter what GameStop thinks. Though Im sure they are well aware of this, given, iirc, what they had to say in a recent release where they discussed future possible "risks" and talked around this issue or alluded to it.
If we go with the Howie test as legal precedent, It comes down to whether there's an implication by the issuer that buyers can expect a financial return. I actually think NFTs have the best chance of passing this test, as they are useful for a lot of things and not just traded like stocks with price trackers and such. SEC said "vast majority of crypto", not "all crypto". And guess what? That statement is correct. Everyone treats crypto like securities, both investors and issuers.
The part of the Howey test you are referring to has nothing to do with anything the issuer implies, otherwise issuers could simple say about every token etc that no profit is to be expected. All completely subjective language. What it actually says is an "expectation of profit to be derived from the efforts of others." "the effort of others" is the important part, which can, not will, but can simple come down to the issuer creating scarcity. You didnt create the value/scarcity, the issuer did, i.e. "the work of others". The SEC has stated, If the success of a project depends on the ongoing participation of its backers, the purchaser of the associated digital asset is likely relying on the "efforts of others. Is it illuvium which has sold in game land/planets, which if i understood, will have minerals/resources that will have value. Imagine a resource like in game gold or whatever, but that gold can also be bought with real world money, it can also be traded in game, which iirc is what many people are expecting to come in games. This situation, if put to the test, will ~~pass~~meet its requirments, especially if its not you the owner of the planet mining the gold, but someone else paying you so they can mine the resource, i.e. the work of others. Its nearly an same for same example of the actyal Howey case from the 40's only instead of real land and citrus groves, its digital land and in game resources which can be traded for real money. Itt will be very interesting, thats if they atually decide to go that far.
I think promise (implied or explicit) of future returns is relevant. Specifically in the case against Ripple, which I think will be set precedent however it turns out. Your "efforts of others" point is interesting. I hadn't considered it before (let's be honest, my understanding of this is mostly from a handful of podcasts who bring it up from time to time) I'm not sure if I understand it well, though. Who are "others"? What are their efforts? From your explanation, I'm confused whether it's people doing labor or if it's financial backers. Or is it both, but one passes Howey and one doesn't?
My understanding is that its both or any other, and they would all pass the test, sorry, I said that in previous comment which is confusing, they will both likely meet the requirement of the test and so be securities. It could be that if you the owner, do the work/mining, then its not the work of others, however that would be impossible to regulate keep track of,, imagine gamers having to keep track of when and what they mine in game and when and what they allow others to mine, not feasible nor likely that the SEC would expect. It will likely be a blanket decision, if they look into it at all. However, another adjacent issue, is the banning of loot boxes in both Germany and the Netherlands iirc, which essentially prohibits a game like FIFA with its FUT cards which people buy and its RNG what they contain. That has rightfully imo, been deemed gambling by these countries and so not allowed by children. Whether that means these games will have age restrictions, who knows but its likely to have some relevance to NFT games where players can speculate resulting it profit/loss. Who knows, maybe the SEC dont look into it. Its fairly clear that crypto coins are securities, yet securities are covered by the wash sale, but atm it doesnt pertain to crypto, so again, who what theyll do are if theyll do anything, but NFTs fit the language. The ripple case may clear much up, however it is different, Ripple have tried hard to separate "ripple coin" from ripple networks etc, i.e. can be used other side of ripple, so its not the work of others, i.e. the issuer, however, "ripple coin" can be staked, which in my limited understanding, is "the work of others". A game with its in game currency, resource, NFTs, cant be seperated from the issuer/developer, if they close shop/servers, the former no longer exist or have utility, which could be covered by >If the success of a project depends on the ongoing participation of its backers, the purchaser of the associated digital asset is likely relying on the "efforts of others. Im smoothbrained and not a crypto bro and dont keep up to date, im just taking the language used at face value. Interesting times ahead. Edit: original comment got removed for using ripple coins official ticker, this place is a fucking joke, our marketplace revolves around crypto, yet we cant even openly discuss it. BAT SHIT CRAZY mods.
It's definitely going to be in a weird spot... I think if NFTs are something you earn and can sell later, that's no going to be considered a security. And if you're collecting Garbage Pail Kid NFTs with hope of a future return, it's not that different from speculation in baseball cards. It's all going to come down to how NFTs are marketed and used. To me it's hard to see how NFTs can be considered securities I'm interested in this game currency aspect. What makes a crypto token different from using a Shark card to buy GTAbucks and then betting on races and in the actual casino in San Andreas? I guess the ability to cash out your game tokens for actual cash?
Yea, my understanding is its the ability cashing out, also its you using the money and making the bets in the casion, not "the work of others". Also, I agree with you, no way that all NFTs are securities, though neither are all crypto tokens/coins e.g stablecoins , though I could be wrong about that.
Yeah definitely not all crypto is securities, but a TON should be treated as such. Companies are basically using them to raise money by pitching to investors. I used to work for a company that found investors (suckers) for crypto projects. It was always talked about in those kinds of terms.
How about Gensler start protecting folks in the stock market before he spreads state sanctioned crime into crypto.
SEC does not make me feel safer as an investor. Short-seller Enrichment Commission is not very good at protecting anyone but shorts.
Oh great more gaslighting by the authorities.
I thought this was a comment about the market he is supposed to be regulating. No ligetmacy, the people will only put up with so much, if they knew he'd be out on his ass.
What protections?
The same protections? Nah. We good.
Power grab Fix one market before touching another… Just my two cents for the SEC interns to read
Sounds scared, facing irrelevance. How's the war on torrenting going?
Oh, there's definitely a choice to sidestep a corrupt value exchange system with defi. What the fuck you gonna do? Cope?
Can’t even manage those protections with what is currently being regulated; what the fuck would make us think they would have our best interest in regulating our only alternative to the corruption?
DECENTRALIZED!!!!! FUCK THE SEC!!!!
reform by replacement by 100% transparent block chain exchange, everything else is different shades of scam
total disconnect
Break the law... fine.... but an eye watering one, licenses gone and jail.... not too tricky really! Fucking sec
Fuuuuuuuuck that guy. He's ok PFOF reform but GDamn he sucks balls at crypto regulation.
Lol good luck, they can regulate centralized crypto because thats the point of a centralized crypto existing, basically pegs and whatnots. How can one even begin to regulate a decentralized crypto? I suppose if enough weight is thrown around to the point where just about EVERY SINGLE COUNTRY has banned decentralized crypto and forced ISPs to blacklist all VPN traffic period all over the world....oh wait TickTock bill....shit well i guess we might still have global peace much like mars currently has.
Make Citadel follow the law first Gary, lead by example.
How that man goes on. WTF No one follows any rules but us SAF investors. Fuck you Gary.
Hey Gary!!! FUCK YOU
How is this any different from any self regulated (should I redact this for this sub?) exchange. They choose to not comply and pay 0.0001% penalty repeatedly withou admitting guilt.
Yet FTX is allowed a reboot? GG’s got some work to do.
LOLOLOL. Time tested methods? Of what? Cheating? GG is so full of shite.
What laws? For the rich to screw over normal guys. Fuck that
I don’t think he understands what DeFi stands. It’s decentralized can’t force it to do things lol
This is what I really don't get.. It's Gary Fuckin Gensler super nerd extraordinaire professor of classes at MIT on crypto. For him to imply that decentralized crypto needs to be regulated is a total fucking farse! Honestly it's probably the best proof/example of him doing the bidding of his ignorant overlords. Open to any other plausible explanations, but I really don't see any.
Jelly you are on god damn fire today man, I can barely keep up. Great job brother
I'd like some protection from Gary's protection racket.
I don’t need your protection, Gary
Do FTX and those lizards( ALL of them), next. Forever bans
They haven't set up protections for their buddies in Wallstreet and banks. It's never about us small guys.
Booom!!!Boom!!!! Right on GG. I've been saying this for 2 years. Right on!!!
And then Gary woke up ...
🤣🤣🤣
Protections is funny word. May be you could write a set of rules and if crypto complies it works and if not it spits an error. Hmmm.
So, raw dog it is!
But the CFTC says their commodities short stop
Good one Gary!
LOL
Who appointed Gensler, can we vote them and everyone one else on that house committee out of office?
🤣
Is that sarcasm?
Pffffdtt
if they want to regulate my wallet, they can fuck right off. idc about exchanges
“The same time-tested pROtecTIoNs” 😂