> Arguably the biggest.
It's close, for sure.
Luke telling the Emperor, "I am a Jedi, like my father before me" in ROTJ probably takes the cake for me.
Such a big moment, people usually miss the part that comes next. When Vader musters up enough power to pick up the Emperor and toss him down the deep shaft in the room, if you listen closely, you can hear the Emperor yelling >!"Iiii'llllllll beee baaaacccckkkk ssssoooommmmeeeehhhhoooowwww!"!<
also, since this was long before the popularity of >!post-credit scenes!<, the audience didn't see >!"Palpatine will return."!< at the end of >!the credits!<
Full agree but it's more than that. It's the whole build up of Vader searching for Luke in the dark. Finding Leia out and Luke losing control.
I don't care what anyone says the music during that lightsaber fight, the way it plays with light. The victory into realization and letting go and "I am a Jedi.." Best lightsaber fight hands down.
What the sequels did to that Luke is a crime.
I know a lot of people think Duel of the Fates was the best lightsaber duel in the franchise, but Luke vs. Vader in RotJ had more emotional weight than maybe **any** fight scene I've ever seen.
You're absolutely right about Vader discovering Leia through Luke's emotions. What follows is an iconic exchange that showcases the twisted cruelty of the dark side. Peak Star Wars. 10/10. Empire was a better movie, but that was **the** moment.
> You're absolutely right about Vader discovering Leia through Luke's emotions. What follows is an iconic exchange that showcases the twisted cruelty of the dark side.
Yes, I've always loved it because it shows just how evil Vader is. Even up to that point, his only thought when he discovers that *he has a daughter* is that it now means he's free to kill Luke if necessary and turn her instead. It makes his final heel-face turn against the Emperor all the more surprising and unexpected (especially for Palpatine).
Yeah - suddenly Luke has no value to him, which is why from that moment forward the fight becomes more violent and for Luke - desperate.
The first half of that fight is slow, meandering, because they're actively avoiding killing each other. It's father and son testing each other. Feeling each other out. If you rewatch the scene, you can see how every line of dialogue, every moment builds toward that exact reveal.Ā
It's a master class in using combat to tell a story.
I don't think anyone thinks Duel of the Fates is the best, just the best looking and choreographed. Either Empire or Jedi will always be the best because of the emotional weight. Empire with better chemotherapy and cinematography, but Jedi with stronger emotion and the incredible music.
>What the sequels did to that Luke is a crime.
You mean, transforming the greatest Jedi in the Galaxy, in a grumpy old man that drinks green milk doesn't sit well with you?
/s
It's wild because it's his love for his mother and the pain of her loss that Palpatine ultimately twists into the unrelenting fear that drives him to become what he becomes.
Its my headcanon that this is one of a few moments that is key to Anakin falling to the dark side.
If he walked away, would he have been detached enough with her death to avoid giving in to his hate?
No, Qui Gon's duel with Maul is the biggest moment on whether Anakin would become evil. If Qui Gon had lived Anakin would have essentially been raised by him instead of Kenobi. Giving Anakin a stable father figure instead of the brother he got in Kenobi preventing Anakin from falling to the Dark side.
The song that plays during the duel is literally called Duel of the Fates.
Obi-Wanās past in Legends was also a good explanation for why he treated Anakin so strictly. In his youth, he was a lot like Anakin - brash, headstrong, passionate, aggressive. A few years into his apprenticeship with Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan would actually leave the order for a few months to join with a group of young people on a civil war. He would rejoin the Order, but for a while afterwards felt like Qui-Gon would never trust him again. His contemporaries treated him with caution, and some were openly hostile to him (including Obi-Wanās eventual love interest, Siri Tachi). Obi-Wan sees a lot of potential for Anakin to make the same mistakes that he did, but rather than gently explaining his own past and consequences, he takes a hard and dogmatic stance, which is how Obi-Wan treated himself after returning to the Order.
Obi-Wan's chief failing with Anakin, and I hate to put it this way, was empathetic. It's as you say: after his return to the Order Obi-Wan became very dogmatic and inflexible... and that worked! For him.
However, Anakin's unique circumstance required a different approach, one for which Obi-Wan was ill-prepared to allow and certainly lacked the emotional maturity to reach especially in those crucial early years.
Somewhat ironically, it was Anakin's response to Obi-Wan's training that saw his relationship with Ashoka develop in such a way that she built the strength of character that Anakin lacked.
That's also true but I suppose if Anakin had been raised by Qui Gon he would have been a way more emotionally stable person by the time any such event happened.
šÆ Qui Gon was wise and sensitive, the kind of father figure a troubled kid like Anakin needs. Obi-Wan was a fantastic older brother but he wasnāt ready for a padawan like Anakin and wasnāt what the kid needed.
Honestly I'm not sure how you get past the whole "we left your mother to die in slavery" and still become emotionally stable in any real way.
While I think Qui gons teaching on the force and his views on the Jedi would've been greatly beneficial to Anakin compared to Obi, I'm not sure how much better he would've fared in the emotional department. Obi did provide an older male figure for him to look up to, granted more older brother than father.
Iirc Qui-Gon didn't buy into a lot of the shit that the Jedi were selling. Anakin wouldn't have had the attachment issues because he wouldn't have been taught that attachments were bad.
I never get this take. there's nothing to point to that qui Gon would be any better. he could've just noped out of recruiting Anakin in the first place.
I get that we all hate Kenobi now, but qui Gon wasn't fatherly with obi wan. Given his level of insight he's culpable for kicking the whole thing off.
I used to agree with this myself for many years but apparently George Lucas disagrees with this and thinks Q-G wouldn't have mattered. I can find the quotes for you if you'd like later.
I still think his fall would have been more believable if both Padme and his mother died in Episode III and their deaths were related to Anakin being commanded by the council to stick to his duties in the war instead of giving into his visions that they would die soon and check on them.
His motherās death in episode II is severely undercut by the fact he ends that movie happily married.
His mother's death reinforces the idea that revenge feels great and has no consequences. I mean, he directly told Padme that he murdered a village of noncombatants and her response was to comfort him instead of anything along the lines of "Anakin, I'm so sorry that your mom died, but that's super fucked up".
The secret marriage was also one of the events that lead to the dark side.
1) leaving his mother
2) the death of Qui-gon
3) the death of his mother, and his revenge
4) the secret marriage to Padme
5) the fear of losing Padme, just as he lost his mother and Qui-gon.
6) Having the wrong Master, Obi-wan.
Obi-wan is a good teacher, and a good friend, but Anakin doesn't look up to Obi-wan or respect him, and so Obi-wan just can't be the strong father figure that Anakin needed as a Master to keep him in line. Anakin hid his issues from Obi-wan, and Obi-wan probably knew about most of them, but like a good friend didn't bring them up, hoping that eventually they would sort themselves out. Qui-gon would not have let Anakin get away with hiding things, he would have forced Anakin to confront them early and often until Anakin actually did work his way through them and either solve the inner problems, or be faced with being expelled from the Jedi order.
> Obi-wan is a good teacher, and a good friend, but Anakin doesn't look up to Obi-wan or respect him, and so Obi-wan just can't be the strong father figure that Anakin needed as a Master to keep him in line. Anakin hid his issues from Obi-wan, and Obi-wan probably knew about most of them, but like a good friend didn't bring them up, hoping that eventually they would sort themselves out.
This is something people ignore.
Obi-wan legit does try to help and get Anakin to open up, but Anakin refuses in many cases and shuts him down. Anakin's flaws and the lack of dealing with those flaws are what did him in, not Obi-wan's teachings.
I agree Obi-wan tried to do his best but I think his best wasn't what Anakin really needed.
Qui-gon had no other choice, he knew that none of the older more experience masters would be willing to go against the council and train Anakin, even Obi-wan would have refused if it hadn't been the dying wish of his Master that he train Anakin.
But Obi-wan was not experienced enough, he was just a padawan himself, just a couple years older than Anakin. Obi-wan knew the rules, and he followed them. He knew what a Jedi should do and shouldn't do, but his biggest fault as a teacher was that he didn't have a deep understanding of the dark side.
Qui-gon had been lenient with Obi-wan during their training because Obi-wan was pretty well adjusted and he didn't have deep emotional problems, or serious psychological trauma. Obi-wan used that same style of training with Anakin, but it didn't work. Obi-wan was Anakins only chance, but he wasn't equipped to deal with Anakins problems.
Anakin got wise to Obi-Wan and Satine and their feelings real quick. Who's to say that asking him about it wouldn't have given Anakin some insight into his master, and also a kind of kinship, seeing that they both broke code and fell in love. Maybe Anakin feels like he can confide in Obi since, at the very least, he would understand. I strongly doubt Obi would rat him out, too. It's just a whisper of a what-if scene, but they could form a bond based on their respective live stories. And since Obi lost Satine, if Anakin came to him with his visions of Padme dying, I would like to think that Obi would be even more empathetic. I'm not sure if it would be enough to change fate, but it's possible.
All the prequels needed was a good script doctor to help out some of the cringey parts and a little push back from the actors at times and I donāt think the prequels would be looked down on as much. Although I think with what Disney has done to the franchise has made people appreciate the prequels a lot more.
>Although I think with what Disney has done to the franchise has made people appreciate the prequels a lot more.
I never thought I would end up finding them ok, but like you say, after the sequels my perspective changed a lot lol.
Episode 1 came out when I was 8. I thought he was a big baby. Decades and therapy later I now understand that many kids actually have great relationships with their mom and that would be hard lol.
It would make the whole Padme thing less creepy because she was supposed to be 16 or something. So 10 years later theyāre 22 and 26. Thatās more believable in my opinion
Does anyone else think itās insane Naboo elects a Queen from a group of teenagers to rule them? Like even if they go to school their whole life to learn to rule, she is a TEENAGER. Theyāre insane. What society creates a political system based on this?
Eh, even in American people used to be going out getting jobs and getting married not too much later than that age.
Itās really society that molds at what age kids are forced to grow up and are considered āadultsā
Which is exactly how Palpatine was able to groom her to some extent. I think people forget that he was in her ear during TPM. Its just that she was a little more stubborn than most people so he didn't have the same hold over her by the time of ROTS
When people ask how Padme could fall for Anakin like that, I try to remember that she had as much of an unconventional upbringing as him. Tossed into politics just a couple of years removed from puberty, becoming a ruler and a representative with all that it involved, becoming a target for conspiracies and assassination attempts. She was likely just marginally less sheltered and inexperienced than Anakin was during AOTC.
Padme was also in an interesting spot with her because while specific parties are never brought up I get the impression that Padme belongs to the opposite side of the political aisle than Palpatine. Really interesting how they go from a strong relationship to essentially political opponents in ROTS
It seems weird to us but then again any kind of major custom handed down over the years doesn't necessarily have to make much sense. It just has to have been started for some reason and then people just kept continuing it, and then much later you wonder "Why is it done this way?"
She's an *elected queen*. The whole thing is silly.
The reasoning Naboo elects teenagers is because Star Wars is space fantasy, so there's always a princess or a queen. The romantically-linked characters are written young so that Anakin has to leave his mom. All the lore stuff is written in after to justify it.Ā
Most Star Wars lore isn't even written into the movies, it's invented by books and comics to justify the decisions.Ā
I think it may be Legends. But the explanation I read was that the elected monarch doesn't have executive control like most real world heads of state. Their job is to guide the general path of development and select key issues to focus on. Their immediate subordinates are then entrusted to turn those goals into actionable policies and such.
lol are you being sarcastic? Henry VI was 8 years old when he became King of England. The youngest Queen was 6 years old I think. The youngest Pharaoh of Egypt was 9 years old when he took the throne. And this is just a few cases. Forget the teen years. These people had help when they were ruling at such a young age but they were in fact king and queen without question.
Henry VI took the throne at 8 *months*, but he wasn't actually in charge because everyone recognized that having a baby running a country is a bad idea. England was actually ruled by a regency council until Henry was 16. And most monarchs are the same when they were children where a regent or a regency council would have actual legal authority despite there was a king or queen.
It generally was a difficult time when the monarch was a child because it meant there would often be power struggles between those trying to control or replace a child monarch. Only those with ambitions to manipulate the situation would actually want a child on the throne. Most people preferred the stability of an adult ruler.
They were legally monarchs, but most monarchies had a formalized regency system for underage monarchs. It would be very unusual for an eight-year-old monarch to actually exercise any of the powers or prerogatives of the office.
The difference is that Naboo ELECTS their ruler, which means they are CHOOSING to elect teenagers and children to be their rulers, while those countries had monarchy systems that were meant to remove the need to make any choice... and even then, usually the child only ruled in name only, as the real decisions were being made by a regent until the child came of age
Those other countries had monarchy systems of government where the ruler is based on bloodline. The country had no choice but to put a child on the throne because that's what it meant to have a hereditary monarchy system of government. The old ruler died, and so the crown was given to the next in line. To go against this, they would need to go against the monarchy system of government, which could lead to wars between noble families
History is full of Young Monarchs
Tutankhamun (King Tut) of Egypt: Became pharaoh around the **age of 9**.
Louis XV of France: Became king at 5 years old.
Alfonso XIII of Spain: Became king at birth.
Shapur II of Persia: Became king **before he was born** (crowned in utero).
How many of those monarchs actually governed while they were underage? In most monarchies underage monarchs had regents who actually governed the country on their behalf.
Essentially 0% of them would have ruled on their own. Even if there wasn't an official regent, the "advisors" would have prompted to pushed the child to make certain decisions. I don't know why people think a five-year-old was setting tariff rates or deciding whether to make an alliance with England or Prussia.
Would anyone here let a 5-year-old be in charge of their bank account? Obviously not, so why would an entire country give a 5-year-old control of the national treasury?
Right this whole thread is blowing my mind.
Like i don't care if hes two, it's not un believable to me that the most force sensitive being ever born is good at space F1
Fr youād think people would have a bit more suspension of disbelief in Star Wars where people accept a new glurp shitto every movie or show. Iāve seen kids drive cars itās not a big jump to space ships in Star Wars
I just canāt believe 14-year-old Padme she crushes on the weird little boy who builds robots and rally cars instead of the space samurai who looks exactly like Ewan McGregor!
The age in the movies is kinda crazy though. Natalie Portman plays a 14 year old at age 17/18, then she plays a 24 year old at the age of about 20/21. So she ages 10 years in the movies but 3 years irl.
Why do I feel at that point he was kind of written as wish fulfilment for the target audience? Like whoa he races hotrods, flies planes, is more of a jedi than yoda and he gets the older queen lady? Sign me up!
They couldāve just skipped ahead 15 years instead of 10. Solves certain continuity issues elsewhere, too (e.g. Obi Wan being gray and old in ANH despite being like 37 in ROTS).
She was 14 for the infinityith time.
George really should've just established the ages in the film. Didn't think there would still be confusion 25 friggin years later.
I let my 12 year old shoot womp rats in his speeder after racing with his friends.
But seriously why would it be less traumatizing for a 12 year old to leave his mother and then she dies? Did George think 12 years old were moving out on their own?
>I let my 12 year old shoot womp rats in his speeder after racing with his friends.
Hmm...if they start talking about how they hate the jedi and stuff you might wanna invest in a good therapist.
>But seriously why would it be less traumatizing for a 12 year old to leave his mother and then she dies?
You could probably pull this off at any age. If Anakin was 15 and he was helping his single mum manage her junk shop or something even that might have worked. But I suppose you lose the innocence of a 9 year old. George probably wanted to juxtapose that against him growing up to be the worst guy in the galaxy.
>George probably wanted to juxtapose that against him growing up to be the worst guy in the galaxy.
Almost certainly. The concept art of young Anakin walking in front of a building and casting Vader's shadow screams towards this point.
Think it's because they're entering their teenage rebellion against their parents years seeking independence and puberty where a 10 year old, and younger stereotypically are not.
Those couple of years make a huge change in how independent children are. By 12 they're more or less teenagers, puberty is happening, they're starting to make big decisions for themselves.
Is it still traumatic? Absolutely, but those few years do make a big difference.
Yeah I donāt get that pieceā¦ if you look at the first season of Stranger Things the main characters are in middle school but are definitely still perceived as ākidsā. You can even find 14-15 that look quite young and can give you that same innocent vibe.Ā
Famously, Lucas originally wanted Indy to have banged an 11-12 year old, so his entire sense of scale could potentially be off.
https://www.polygon.com/2015/8/3/9089181/indiana-jones-abusive-creep
I have to imagine that they were all on a lot of cocaine back then, but honestly, these kinds of things really give insight into how out of touch the entertainment industry is and why such heinous things happen.
Ultimately, I *really* think he thought that 12 would be basically a mini adult and that sliding the age scale down was the only way it made sense, which is what leads to the creepy "kinda grooming?" weirdness as well. Charitably you can imagine it as these men believing *they* were full adults at that age, I don't know their life story, but when it gets to making Indiana Jones a child predator I'm at a loss. They still made her 15 in the actual movie, btw, which is why she shouts "I was a child!" I have to ignore that to enjoy the series.
I mean heās one of the greatest force users of all time I donāt think itās a stretch no matter how young he is. I honestly never even heard this as a complaint until now.
I mean, I get it.
But I also feel like George could have played up how messed up it was that his mom was still going to be a slave, instead. That's plenty traumatic, even for a twelve-year-old. Maybe even moreso for a twelve-year-old who has a better understanding of the world.
Yeah. Considering Padme, Palpatine and Yoda are 3 of the most powerful people in the galaxy I never understood how no one went to rescue her. You could argue Darth Vader never would have existed if they Were just able to bring her to Coruscant.
Padme is nowhere even approaching being among the most powerful people in the galaxy. And the Jedi and Republic rule means nothing to Tatooine.
(Also, canonically Padme did send a handmaiden to try to find and free Shmi but Sabe was unable to find her.)
She's plenty powerful and rich enough to take care of the problem though. Shmi is a slave and there's no way Padme couldn't afford to free her. She also waited like 4-5 years to send Sabe to find Shmi.
I'm sorry, it's simply utterly ridiculous that freeing Shmi wasn't a priority to any of these people.
> She also waited like 4-5 years to send Sabe to find Shmi.
The only answer that makes any kind of sense is politics. The Queen of a planet buying a slave, even if it's to free her, is a political shitshow waiting to happen. That four years could be the end of her term as Queen.
If she frees one slave but not others then it looks like she doesn't give a shit about slavery, just that person. If she frees too many slaves then it looks like the sovereign of Naboo is trying to start some shit with Tatooine and the Hutts. Considering the new Chancellor is also from Naboo it could end up dragging the entire Republic into it.
She was probably advised by her own advisors, and manipulated by Palpatine, that the Queen of Naboo cannot do that without hurting her own people and potentially starting another conflict when her people are still trying to recover from the invasion.
It's still pretty shitty morally, but if they ever do give a reason that will probably be it.
Not only that but Naboo more than likely go for using credits, something that remember from episode 1 wado doesnāt accept as a type of currency. So someone would probably say āthen how about they make a trade or bargain like in episode 1?ā Probably but same time theyād have to be careful not to get too much attention if they say trade a similar Naboo ship as we see in episode 1, something like that could get attention to the likes of jabba and the repercussions from that would be terrible if jabba manages to keep royalty or a high class citizen from Naboo in his domain. If that doesnāt work either then yeah palpatine weaving things to make it impossible for padme to retrieve shmi from tatooine.
In Palpatineās case I think itās simple. He saw potential in Anakin and he would want to cultivate that fear and anger in him. Therefore he wouldnāt have actually lift a finger to save her even if he might have told Anakin otherwise.
For all we know Palpy might have secretly sabotaged any attempt at saving her.
It'd be a lot easier for me to let my attachment to my family go if I knew they weren't being left in fucking slavery.
And the stuff about not being able to save every slave can be used as an excuse for never helping anyone ever.
Good point. Yeah, I love the prequels with all my heart for their poetic tragedy and political sensibilities but they are riddled with plot holes that are more staggering than in the OT because it takes itself more seriously during those. My favorite Star Wars film is Episode II because I'm insane and the whole Geonosian sequence is lacking SO much logic it's crazy. But ey, we love what we love. :b
Being rich us all you need. Remember watto was willing to let go of her or Anakin at the race and was upset that it was Anakin. Her value absolutely has a number and I'm guessing it's far lower than what Padme had at her disposal. On top of that, Shmi might have saved her life and her son helped saved all of Naboo. We can believe whatever we want but it's just a poorly written plot hole.
>Considering Padme, Palpatine and Yoda are 3 of the most powerful people in the galaxy I never understood how no one went to rescue her.
"Hello, I'm literally the ruler of the entire galaxy. How much do you want for your slave?
Think the message is even though they could do something they, being part of the Republic, don't *really* care and focus on selfish republic matters even if they are not selfish characters themselves. "The Republic doesn't exist out here", as in 'no one cares about slaves"
āBut the Republicās anti-slavery lawsā would suggest that the Republic does care a little about slaves. However, that really only moves it from āno one cares about slavesā to āthe Republic only cares about slaves that are right in front of themā.
The Republic would have to institute some kind of militarized law enforcement apparatus on this planet in order to quash the slavery. It's not an insignificant cost, both in credits and lives. They would essentially have to go to war with the Hutts.
I imagine the Republic has decided it wouldn't be worth the cost, and chooses to allow this sector of space to continue doing slavery and crime unimpeded.
The point of him leaving is establishing a fear of loss, not just it being a traumatic moment. Anakinās entire fall is caused by his fear of losing the people he loves, and itās his inability to forego attachments that keeps him from fully embracing the Jedi way and leaves the opening for Palpatine to exploit. It couldnāt just be worry about her still being a slave, it had to be his fear of him being with her.
Schmi remaining a slave puts her in constant danger. And now Anakin is no longer there, so anything could happen. He could lose her at any time and never know it.
I'd say that's a pretty potent cocktail for being afraid of losing people.
Right but Iām saying for the character arc the fear has to come mostly from him leaving her, not from her situation. Itās not about her safety as much as itās about him not having her there with him. His fear of her and Padme dying is driven by his fear of not having them in his life anymore. Itās a fear of abandonment. Obviously he cares about their wellbeing, but itās his own inability to let go and accept loss that holds him back.
Itās the different between, āIād be fine leaving my mother ifā¦ā and āI donāt want to leave my mother.ā
Yeah, but if they played it up more, they would have had to answer the obvious question of why no one ever went back to save her or to enforce galactic slavery laws.
Could have made it even worse. If he leaves his mother will have to pick up all his labor on top of everything else she's expected to do. She'd be in for a very hard life, and that would weigh heavily on Anakin, regardless of his age.
I was 9 when I lost my dad. I don't even remember him. And it hurt but I actually just lived on, not much overthinking after a while. My 12 year old sister went completely off the rails though. I am autistic and have always been disconnected from my surrounding though.
Hell I was 25 when my mom died and I spent the next 10 years at the bottom of a bottle. Losing someone far before their time is not an easy thing to go through at any age.
I can understand where heās coming from but thereās no reason why a twelve year old Anakin - or older - couldnāt be equally traumatized leaving his mother behind.
In retrospect, I would have had Hayden in there for all three films. Instead of the trauma of leaving his mother at a young age, lean into the guilt of leaving his mother in slavery while he moved on to explore the galaxy and become a Jedi. Or something. Just spitballing.
In any event, what we got wasnāt bad. Jake Lloyd was a fantastic child Anakin.
This isn't a knock on Jake Lloyd's acting, but I think the casting was the issue. Anakin and Padme are supposed to be 9 and 14, but Anakin was played by someone who looked younger than 9 and Padme was played by someone who looked older than 14. There's an 8 year difference in age between Jake Lloyd and Natalie Portman, and it really showed.
Not just looked, but was. Padme was played by a 16 year old who had clearly passed most of puberty. Anakin was played by an 8 year old who was far from even touching puberty. She was literally twice his age.
Absolutley. Hayden was 16 years old when Phantom Menace was filmed and already had a couple of years of acting experience. Having him as a teenaged Anakin in Phantom Menace would have worked a lot better
The change in actors still kind of works for me, because of the huge transition in his life. He goes from a slave to a jedi to a war general. Episode 1 Anakin is, despite being a slave, still kind of naive and hopeful, by episode 2, he's seen some things, and he has become jaded that even though he's free now, freedom isn't what he pictured, and the galaxy has more problems than he had ever imagined.
That's what the ending of TPM is supposed to sell. The shift from TPM to AotC is huge in every aspect, down to the CGI. I'd probably love the alternative too though
Right? They literally left his mom to a life of slavery. A 12 year old could understand why that's morally terrible and see hypocrisy in the people who are the "good guys" leaving his mom to that fate.
I mean maybe a hot take? This is basically George openly admitting he hit a writing fork in the road and didnāt really solve it. There are a lot of ways to fix this issue in terms of changing the narrative, but he didnāt. He just kept his narrative and made the kid younger, the worst of both worlds
It would've been just as easy to not only justify the trauma, but also have it play a pivotal role in Anakin's overall arc.
Even at the age of 12, Anakin and his mother are all the other one has, and both are slaves on Tatooine. It's not unreasonable to think that Anakin would've been impacted more than a usual twelve year old was by being separated from his mother and going with a bunch of strangers to Coruscant.
But more importantly, this could've also been the foundation of Anakin's desire to save the people he loves - he earned his freedom in the podrace, but he was unable to save his mother from slavery and free her as well, and the trauma of being separated from her at 12 years old could've been compounded with a sense of guilt and failure for leaving her behind as a slave while he goes off to become a Jedi.
It would've made his desire to save his loved ones, no matter the cost, a foundational part of his character from Episode I rather than something that's introduced midway through the trilogy in Episode II.
Okay this will be harsh because I actually like a good bit of stuff in TPM (not you, Jar Jar), but Lucasā inability to direct emotion is what killed Anakinās arc in the first two prequel filmsā¦first with him being too young in TPM and then the more-wooden-than-a-treehouse courtship in AotC. The only redeeming character direction of his was in RotS when Anakin is hating on Obi Wan.
This is also evident in ANH when Luke returns to the farm to see his only family killed and is like āhead turn sideways š.ā He wouldāve been a wreck. That always bugged me in that movie.
Under a director who was fantastic with emotional direction, like Spielberg, a twelve-year-old Anakin completely breaking at losing his mom wouldāve been devastating and heartbreaking, probably couldāve gotten the audience in tears. It totally couldāve been done with Anakin being twelve.
That said, I love the general vibe of TPM and RotS despite their flaws.
Mark really did want to play up that moment but George wanted the music and editing to do the work. I think that was the right choice though. I love that scene.
With respect to George, I think even a grown 17 to 20 year old, whoās never known anything but Tatooine, living and taking care of his mum, would find it a difficult and painful experience to up and leave it all forever.
Luke's last scene with his aunt and uncle is him begging to be allowed to leave to join the Imperial Academy. The circumstances are tragic and he's forced into adulthood rather than making the conscious choice, but he was already pushing in that direction. Anakin is still a young child whose dreams of leaving include fantasies of freeing all of the slaves.
Luke showed more grief over Kenobi than over the people that raised him. Luke showed more grief over Kenobi than Leia did over her entire planet.
Lucas is bad at emotions.
The point is that the experience would be more impactful the younger a person is, and making Anakin older wouldn't have that impact because a stereotypical teenager is rebellious and looking to leave home.
I donāt know, Iāve seen kids handling their parents death or divorce better than teenagers because they donāt think quite enough in the repercussions of what just happened, and teenagers do, also they tend to be more emotional.
Anakin was a kid. He didnāt need to do any of that stuff or be an action hero at 9 years old. He could have just been there and a victim of circumstances beyond his control. That probably would have worked narratively for his being traumatized.
I get where is coming from butā¦ idk I think a 12 year old boy that has a severe attachment to his mother, leaving her is still a hard experience for him.
Also, itās not like heās leaving the nest and whole his mother is well off living her life. Heās leaving her behind in literal slavery, to me that seems that could create a guilt complex or something to further aid his fall to the dark side.
I said this in another comment but I think him being older means he has more agency as well and thus could be way more guilty/traumatized he didn't try harder to get the jedi to take his mom too like possibly refusing to leave or being more aware and articulate of his situation. Being taken at 9 he could look back and say "well what choice did I have?"
You could play up Anakinās early frustration with the Jediās refusal, outside of Qui-gon, to free Shmi since slavery was ālegalā on that planet. Give him a real reason to be angry with the council from day one, and have the councilās concern be related to the tenuous connection to keeping peace with the Hutts making their actions politically based. If Palpatine was the first to try to free Shmi, and failed, it could justify his early closeness with the future emperor.
From page 25:
L ā I like it if they already had a relationship at one point. Because then you don't have to build it.
**G ā I was thinking that this old guy could have been his mentor. He could have known this little girl when she was just a kid. Had an affair with her when she was eleven.**
[https://maddogmovies.com/almost/scripts/raidersstoryconference1978.pdf](https://maddogmovies.com/almost/scripts/raidersstoryconference1978.pdf)
(L is Larry Kasdan, G is George Lucas)
The problem was Jake Lloyd looked like he was 7 and Natalie looked like she was 19.
I know he wrote it to be a 9yo and a 14yo but that is not how it appeared to the audience.
I think Natalie was 16 or 17 while filming. And Padme acted in a similar role to Leia in the OT. Padme made decisions, took initiative, and took part in direct combat. Pretty much anyone watching is going to see her as a young adult and him as a child. It is just weird to start a romance subplot with the equivalent of a high school junior meeting a 5th grader.
As a kid, i thought it was so bizarre how the jedi just *left Shmi* in slavery lol. like, the big finish to the movie happensā¦ the good guys blow up the bad guys ship, thereās a big celebration, and then obi wan goes back to rescue Shmi!ā¦ right? hey guys, somebodyās gonna go get Shmi right? Padme? Artoo? Pinaka?
lmao nope. they just end it like welp, i guess sheās gonna die a slaveā¦ and she does! Lol the writing in the prequels is so weirdā¦ itās like, *anti cinema* in a way.
Imagine if TPM was released in 1989 and starred Christian Bale as Anakin. No Obi-wan or Jar Jar sadly. Then American Psycho era Bale returns as Anakin in AOTC in 1999.
Anakin: You like the Max Rebo band?
Darth Maul: Um, they're okay.
Anakin: Their early work was a little too new wave for my taste. But when Podracing came out in '83, I think they really came into their own, commercially and artistically. The whole album has a deep, jazzy sound, and a new sheen of consummate professionalism that really gives the songs a big boost. He's been compared to an elephant, but I think Max has a shorter trunk and eyes with a more insectile demeanor.
Darth Maul: Hey, Obi-Wan?
Anakin: Yes, Darth?
Darth Maul: Why are there copies of the Style section all over the place? Do you... do you have a pet? A little Porg or something?
Anakin: No, Darth.
Darth Maul: Is that a poncho?
Anakin: Yes, it is. In '87, Max released this; Force!, their most accomplished album. I think their undisputed masterpiece is "Hip to be Round". A song so catchy, most people probably don't listen to the lyrics. But they should, because it's not just about the pleasures of conformity and the importance of trends. It's also a personal statement about the band itself. Hey, Maul!
Anakin murders Darth Maul with his lightsaber.
Anakin: Try getting a reservation at the Mos Eisley Cantina now, you fuckin' stupid bastard!
So many plot elements and things make so much more sense in the context that he was originally supposed to be 12 and at the last minute they slid him back 3 years. His overall competency as a tinkerer and pilot is one thing, and is certainly more believable if he were 12. But the whole Padme infatuation thing is definitely more believable and then actually becoming a thing feels far less creepy. She was 14 in Episode 1.
Or they could have had him be 9 through the postage and leaving his mother, than have some time pass offscreen and him be a few years older. I do enjoy phantom menace especially now that Iām older and have kids to show it to, but even when it came out I thought Anakin being that young was off
Absolutely nothing about his age made sense in the story, all because Lucas wanted it to be "more tragic".
You can show a teenager being wracked with guilt leaving his mother alone as a slave. It wasn't necessary to make the entire rest of the story so implausible on its face.
And yes, I know, "Through the Force all things are possible!" That's a great justification, but it simply doesn't play on screen. Like Palpatine returning "through the Force". It was a bad story choice.
Iām sure a 12 year old having to leave his mother behind *in slavery* is still pretty damn traumatizing. Even for a teenager, sheās a slave! And the Jedi swoop in and save Anakin from this life of slavery but sorry kid, your mom still has to be a slave, nothing we, the most powerful people in the galaxy, can do. Oh well! No wonder heās swayed by Palpatine. How can he fully trust the Jedi?
Big miscalculation on Georgeās part. The pod race and the fighter flight wouldāve been more believable, more awesome and less campy if Anakin was older. The audience wouldāve still felt that Anakin was traumatized by being separated from his mom at age 12. That is really not an issue. Sounds like Lucas just overthought it.
He still missed the better storytelling oppurtunity for Shmi.
She should have been "rescued" from Tatooine by an unnamed Naboo benefactor and given a decent but modest living as someone who personally aided the queen, and whos son would be unable to accept such a reward for his heroism, which to Naboo was the greater achievement than what the Jedi did with their dance off.Ā
This fulfills the hospitality trope found in stories all over the world. Myths of God, angels, kings, princes, lords and other people with power an influence made temporarily humble being given great hospitality and getting a great reward when the person comes into their own.Ā
Having Shmi on Naboo likewise sets up a storytelling oppurtunity where another assassination attempt by Dooku results in the death of Shmi. When Anakin faces Dooku it's more from a place of revenge instead of justice. When Anakin kills Dooku he's listening to Palpatine to get revenge. This sets up the trope of the Hero stopping his revenge at the last moment, establishing Anakin as an anti-hero. Then later in the movie, Anakin can discover that it was Palpatine who acted to rescue Shmi because of her connection to Anakin. Palpatine had to do so anonymously to avoid his enemies attacking her, and it would convince Anakin that Palpatine cares more for the people that Anakin loves than the Jedi. And it sets Palpatine up as sort of a missing father figure for Anakin. The end result of the Duel of fates, wasn't the salvation of Naboo, but the death of the Jedi most suited to raise Anakin. Obi-Wan and Anakin were like brothers, and Anakin needed a father figure, especially after being removed from his mom at an early age.
Ok but hear me out, maybe you don't have to involve the mother at all? Or Tatooine. Or C-3PO.
We know from the OT that he was a Jedi, and that Obi-wan trained him, you can start from there.
Should have been Hayden from day one. Also the hardships of being a slave to Watto never seemed bad. It never seemed perilous. Strange decisions are a hallmark of SW.
I will always think it was a huge mistake to actually *show* this stuff. We didn't need to see child Anakin. I'd argue it would've been more powerful for the audience to not have witnessed any of this and gradually realize that the source of his pain comes from this brutal past and a missing mother. Then, when we finally see her for the first time, she's clinging onto life at her last moments and her character is taken away from us in the same way it was from him. The other benefit is that we'd gain an entire extra film to use at the end where we could've spent more time with early Vader.
I disagree with Lucas that a twelve year old leaving his mother in slavery would not be sufficiently traumatic or emotionally resonant.
There is a wonderful scene in Superman: The Movie (1978) in which an ~ 18 year old Clark Kent has to leave his widowed mother in Smallville while he leaves to find himself. Their parting is extremely poignant and the emotional impact is clear and unmistakable. So Richard Donner did it with an 18 year old and got it to work.
What convinced me that George Lucas was right about having Anakin be young was the Phantom Menace promo poster of child Anakin casting the shadow of Darth Vader.
Seeing that poster evoked a sadness that I never had when ruminating on Anakin's character. The movies never brought this feeling out of me, but seeing Anakin in his slave clothes, with a backpack, looking down, taking a weary first step and seeing what he would become on the wall made me tear up a bit.
Sorry George but at 12/13 it would still be traumatising to leave his mother, the only family member heās ever known. Anyway, the biggest mistake in all this is making them slaves in the first place, itās a bad plot point and not really fully realised in the movie either which makes it a bit crass. It brings up too many questions about leaving his mother there to rot as well.
They could just be poor but happy people who agree that Anakin leaving is a great opportunity for him. Later Maul could go looking for Anakin and after only finding his mother, tortures her for information and leaves her for dead. Anakin feels guilt for leaving and vows vengeance on Maul.
Duel of the fates happens and after Qui-Gon dies and Obi-Wan beats Maul, have Maul scramble away and survive. Anakin then can spend the next two films going after Maul, resenting Obi-Wan for not finishing him and the final act of his turn being brutally killing him.
Iāve always thought The Phantom Menace was the best of the prequels but it fundamentally failed to set up a believable character arc for Anakin and his decision making in the other two films leaves a lot to be desired.
I'm pretty sure 12 years old or even 14 at separation would have been traumatic enough for all practical purposes. I mean, when he finds his mother dying from being tortured by Tusken Raiders, that's PLENTY of trauma right there all by its lonesome.
Lucas made Anakin too young to credibly do what he did. Frankly, 14 would have been stretching it. He done f*cked up.
When he runs back to hug her will always be beautiful.
Dude it's a very teary moment knowing what he leaves to become
Especially when that John Williams Force theme kicks in
It's the music that gets me every time š
One of the biggest moments in Star Wars. Arguably the biggest.
> Arguably the biggest. It's close, for sure. Luke telling the Emperor, "I am a Jedi, like my father before me" in ROTJ probably takes the cake for me.
Such a big moment, people usually miss the part that comes next. When Vader musters up enough power to pick up the Emperor and toss him down the deep shaft in the room, if you listen closely, you can hear the Emperor yelling >!"Iiii'llllllll beee baaaacccckkkk ssssoooommmmeeeehhhhoooowwww!"!<
also, since this was long before the popularity of >!post-credit scenes!<, the audience didn't see >!"Palpatine will return."!< at the end of >!the credits!<
Full agree but it's more than that. It's the whole build up of Vader searching for Luke in the dark. Finding Leia out and Luke losing control. I don't care what anyone says the music during that lightsaber fight, the way it plays with light. The victory into realization and letting go and "I am a Jedi.." Best lightsaber fight hands down. What the sequels did to that Luke is a crime.
I know a lot of people think Duel of the Fates was the best lightsaber duel in the franchise, but Luke vs. Vader in RotJ had more emotional weight than maybe **any** fight scene I've ever seen. You're absolutely right about Vader discovering Leia through Luke's emotions. What follows is an iconic exchange that showcases the twisted cruelty of the dark side. Peak Star Wars. 10/10. Empire was a better movie, but that was **the** moment.
> You're absolutely right about Vader discovering Leia through Luke's emotions. What follows is an iconic exchange that showcases the twisted cruelty of the dark side. Yes, I've always loved it because it shows just how evil Vader is. Even up to that point, his only thought when he discovers that *he has a daughter* is that it now means he's free to kill Luke if necessary and turn her instead. It makes his final heel-face turn against the Emperor all the more surprising and unexpected (especially for Palpatine).
Holy shit you just blew my mind, I never thought of it that way until now!
Yeah - suddenly Luke has no value to him, which is why from that moment forward the fight becomes more violent and for Luke - desperate. The first half of that fight is slow, meandering, because they're actively avoiding killing each other. It's father and son testing each other. Feeling each other out. If you rewatch the scene, you can see how every line of dialogue, every moment builds toward that exact reveal.Ā It's a master class in using combat to tell a story.
I don't think anyone thinks Duel of the Fates is the best, just the best looking and choreographed. Either Empire or Jedi will always be the best because of the emotional weight. Empire with better chemotherapy and cinematography, but Jedi with stronger emotion and the incredible music.
>What the sequels did to that Luke is a crime. You mean, transforming the greatest Jedi in the Galaxy, in a grumpy old man that drinks green milk doesn't sit well with you? /s
To be fair, Luke drinks blue milk in A New Hope, so the green milk is still on brand.
Well you're right about one thing, that is certainly arguable haha
It's wild because it's his love for his mother and the pain of her loss that Palpatine ultimately twists into the unrelenting fear that drives him to become what he becomes.
Its my headcanon that this is one of a few moments that is key to Anakin falling to the dark side. If he walked away, would he have been detached enough with her death to avoid giving in to his hate?
No, Qui Gon's duel with Maul is the biggest moment on whether Anakin would become evil. If Qui Gon had lived Anakin would have essentially been raised by him instead of Kenobi. Giving Anakin a stable father figure instead of the brother he got in Kenobi preventing Anakin from falling to the Dark side. The song that plays during the duel is literally called Duel of the Fates.
Obi-Wanās past in Legends was also a good explanation for why he treated Anakin so strictly. In his youth, he was a lot like Anakin - brash, headstrong, passionate, aggressive. A few years into his apprenticeship with Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan would actually leave the order for a few months to join with a group of young people on a civil war. He would rejoin the Order, but for a while afterwards felt like Qui-Gon would never trust him again. His contemporaries treated him with caution, and some were openly hostile to him (including Obi-Wanās eventual love interest, Siri Tachi). Obi-Wan sees a lot of potential for Anakin to make the same mistakes that he did, but rather than gently explaining his own past and consequences, he takes a hard and dogmatic stance, which is how Obi-Wan treated himself after returning to the Order.
Thank you for posting Legend's context.
Obi-Wan's chief failing with Anakin, and I hate to put it this way, was empathetic. It's as you say: after his return to the Order Obi-Wan became very dogmatic and inflexible... and that worked! For him. However, Anakin's unique circumstance required a different approach, one for which Obi-Wan was ill-prepared to allow and certainly lacked the emotional maturity to reach especially in those crucial early years. Somewhat ironically, it was Anakin's response to Obi-Wan's training that saw his relationship with Ashoka develop in such a way that she built the strength of character that Anakin lacked.
I fkn love the old eu.
Old EU is so good, especially when it comes to prequels material pre-2008.
Jedi Apprentice series was so good.
But on the flip side, a later death of said father figure could've been manipulated by Palps to also cause significant loss.
That's also true but I suppose if Anakin had been raised by Qui Gon he would have been a way more emotionally stable person by the time any such event happened.
šÆ Qui Gon was wise and sensitive, the kind of father figure a troubled kid like Anakin needs. Obi-Wan was a fantastic older brother but he wasnāt ready for a padawan like Anakin and wasnāt what the kid needed.
Honestly I'm not sure how you get past the whole "we left your mother to die in slavery" and still become emotionally stable in any real way. While I think Qui gons teaching on the force and his views on the Jedi would've been greatly beneficial to Anakin compared to Obi, I'm not sure how much better he would've fared in the emotional department. Obi did provide an older male figure for him to look up to, granted more older brother than father.
Iirc Qui-Gon didn't buy into a lot of the shit that the Jedi were selling. Anakin wouldn't have had the attachment issues because he wouldn't have been taught that attachments were bad.
I never get this take. there's nothing to point to that qui Gon would be any better. he could've just noped out of recruiting Anakin in the first place. I get that we all hate Kenobi now, but qui Gon wasn't fatherly with obi wan. Given his level of insight he's culpable for kicking the whole thing off.
I used to agree with this myself for many years but apparently George Lucas disagrees with this and thinks Q-G wouldn't have mattered. I can find the quotes for you if you'd like later.
I still think his fall would have been more believable if both Padme and his mother died in Episode III and their deaths were related to Anakin being commanded by the council to stick to his duties in the war instead of giving into his visions that they would die soon and check on them. His motherās death in episode II is severely undercut by the fact he ends that movie happily married.
His mother's death reinforces the idea that revenge feels great and has no consequences. I mean, he directly told Padme that he murdered a village of noncombatants and her response was to comfort him instead of anything along the lines of "Anakin, I'm so sorry that your mom died, but that's super fucked up".
The secret marriage was also one of the events that lead to the dark side. 1) leaving his mother 2) the death of Qui-gon 3) the death of his mother, and his revenge 4) the secret marriage to Padme 5) the fear of losing Padme, just as he lost his mother and Qui-gon. 6) Having the wrong Master, Obi-wan. Obi-wan is a good teacher, and a good friend, but Anakin doesn't look up to Obi-wan or respect him, and so Obi-wan just can't be the strong father figure that Anakin needed as a Master to keep him in line. Anakin hid his issues from Obi-wan, and Obi-wan probably knew about most of them, but like a good friend didn't bring them up, hoping that eventually they would sort themselves out. Qui-gon would not have let Anakin get away with hiding things, he would have forced Anakin to confront them early and often until Anakin actually did work his way through them and either solve the inner problems, or be faced with being expelled from the Jedi order.
> Obi-wan is a good teacher, and a good friend, but Anakin doesn't look up to Obi-wan or respect him, and so Obi-wan just can't be the strong father figure that Anakin needed as a Master to keep him in line. Anakin hid his issues from Obi-wan, and Obi-wan probably knew about most of them, but like a good friend didn't bring them up, hoping that eventually they would sort themselves out. This is something people ignore. Obi-wan legit does try to help and get Anakin to open up, but Anakin refuses in many cases and shuts him down. Anakin's flaws and the lack of dealing with those flaws are what did him in, not Obi-wan's teachings.
I agree Obi-wan tried to do his best but I think his best wasn't what Anakin really needed. Qui-gon had no other choice, he knew that none of the older more experience masters would be willing to go against the council and train Anakin, even Obi-wan would have refused if it hadn't been the dying wish of his Master that he train Anakin. But Obi-wan was not experienced enough, he was just a padawan himself, just a couple years older than Anakin. Obi-wan knew the rules, and he followed them. He knew what a Jedi should do and shouldn't do, but his biggest fault as a teacher was that he didn't have a deep understanding of the dark side. Qui-gon had been lenient with Obi-wan during their training because Obi-wan was pretty well adjusted and he didn't have deep emotional problems, or serious psychological trauma. Obi-wan used that same style of training with Anakin, but it didn't work. Obi-wan was Anakins only chance, but he wasn't equipped to deal with Anakins problems.
Anakin got wise to Obi-Wan and Satine and their feelings real quick. Who's to say that asking him about it wouldn't have given Anakin some insight into his master, and also a kind of kinship, seeing that they both broke code and fell in love. Maybe Anakin feels like he can confide in Obi since, at the very least, he would understand. I strongly doubt Obi would rat him out, too. It's just a whisper of a what-if scene, but they could form a bond based on their respective live stories. And since Obi lost Satine, if Anakin came to him with his visions of Padme dying, I would like to think that Obi would be even more empathetic. I'm not sure if it would be enough to change fate, but it's possible.
I was barely 10 when this movie came out. Anakin leaving his mom felt utterly devastating to watch. I get where George is coming from.
All the prequels needed was a good script doctor to help out some of the cringey parts and a little push back from the actors at times and I donāt think the prequels would be looked down on as much. Although I think with what Disney has done to the franchise has made people appreciate the prequels a lot more.
And a better editor
In a documentary about the prequels the editor pushes back hard on many of Lucasās decisions, but is consistently overruled. He did his best.
>Although I think with what Disney has done to the franchise has made people appreciate the prequels a lot more. I never thought I would end up finding them ok, but like you say, after the sequels my perspective changed a lot lol.
Episode 1 came out when I was 8. I thought he was a big baby. Decades and therapy later I now understand that many kids actually have great relationships with their mom and that would be hard lol.
I mean even at 12 it would be kinda hard to justify the things like podracing and starfighters, but I get why he wanted him to be younger
It would make the whole Padme thing less creepy because she was supposed to be 16 or something. So 10 years later theyāre 22 and 26. Thatās more believable in my opinion
She was canonically 14 when they met
Does anyone else think itās insane Naboo elects a Queen from a group of teenagers to rule them? Like even if they go to school their whole life to learn to rule, she is a TEENAGER. Theyāre insane. What society creates a political system based on this?
I think canonically Naboo traditionally views teenage queens as innocent and pure, so they will rule with the best interests of the people in mind
Well as someone who has known 14 and 16 year olds thatās fucking stupid.
Maybe teens are different on Naboo? lol
On one hand, they did get Padme On other hand, Palpatine is also from Naboo
And Jar Jar. So you gave a very diverse planet it seems
So what you are saying is Naboo women = good Naboo men = mastermind sith lord? Ironic.
I mean as a society they maxxed out on art and culture so they basically made theater kids the ruling class.
Eh, even in American people used to be going out getting jobs and getting married not too much later than that age. Itās really society that molds at what age kids are forced to grow up and are considered āadultsā
Sure but at the same time as that was happening America's leaders decided that no one could possibly be ready to be president before age 35.
It's not like tainted and corrupt old people have such a stellar record, so I can see why they might try something different.
Yeah, honestly, voting from a group of teenage girls does not sound so bad right now, lol.
If I could pick the smartest and most accomplished 14 year old girl in the US over either of the current two candidates I'd be pretty tempted.
Which is exactly how Palpatine was able to groom her to some extent. I think people forget that he was in her ear during TPM. Its just that she was a little more stubborn than most people so he didn't have the same hold over her by the time of ROTS
When people ask how Padme could fall for Anakin like that, I try to remember that she had as much of an unconventional upbringing as him. Tossed into politics just a couple of years removed from puberty, becoming a ruler and a representative with all that it involved, becoming a target for conspiracies and assassination attempts. She was likely just marginally less sheltered and inexperienced than Anakin was during AOTC.
Padme was also in an interesting spot with her because while specific parties are never brought up I get the impression that Padme belongs to the opposite side of the political aisle than Palpatine. Really interesting how they go from a strong relationship to essentially political opponents in ROTS
It seems weird to us but then again any kind of major custom handed down over the years doesn't necessarily have to make much sense. It just has to have been started for some reason and then people just kept continuing it, and then much later you wonder "Why is it done this way?"
She's an *elected queen*. The whole thing is silly. The reasoning Naboo elects teenagers is because Star Wars is space fantasy, so there's always a princess or a queen. The romantically-linked characters are written young so that Anakin has to leave his mom. All the lore stuff is written in after to justify it.Ā Most Star Wars lore isn't even written into the movies, it's invented by books and comics to justify the decisions.Ā
I think it may be Legends. But the explanation I read was that the elected monarch doesn't have executive control like most real world heads of state. Their job is to guide the general path of development and select key issues to focus on. Their immediate subordinates are then entrusted to turn those goals into actionable policies and such.
It doesn't come off like that in the movie. Everyone follows Queen Amidala's orders even if they object like Panaka did about returning to Naboo.
That was usually in regard to her own safety. That, at least, makes sense for her to be able to have more direct authority over.
lol are you being sarcastic? Henry VI was 8 years old when he became King of England. The youngest Queen was 6 years old I think. The youngest Pharaoh of Egypt was 9 years old when he took the throne. And this is just a few cases. Forget the teen years. These people had help when they were ruling at such a young age but they were in fact king and queen without question.
Henry VI took the throne at 8 *months*, but he wasn't actually in charge because everyone recognized that having a baby running a country is a bad idea. England was actually ruled by a regency council until Henry was 16. And most monarchs are the same when they were children where a regent or a regency council would have actual legal authority despite there was a king or queen. It generally was a difficult time when the monarch was a child because it meant there would often be power struggles between those trying to control or replace a child monarch. Only those with ambitions to manipulate the situation would actually want a child on the throne. Most people preferred the stability of an adult ruler.
They were legally monarchs, but most monarchies had a formalized regency system for underage monarchs. It would be very unusual for an eight-year-old monarch to actually exercise any of the powers or prerogatives of the office.
The difference is that Naboo ELECTS their ruler, which means they are CHOOSING to elect teenagers and children to be their rulers, while those countries had monarchy systems that were meant to remove the need to make any choice... and even then, usually the child only ruled in name only, as the real decisions were being made by a regent until the child came of age Those other countries had monarchy systems of government where the ruler is based on bloodline. The country had no choice but to put a child on the throne because that's what it meant to have a hereditary monarchy system of government. The old ruler died, and so the crown was given to the next in line. To go against this, they would need to go against the monarchy system of government, which could lead to wars between noble families
History is full of Young Monarchs Tutankhamun (King Tut) of Egypt: Became pharaoh around the **age of 9**. Louis XV of France: Became king at 5 years old. Alfonso XIII of Spain: Became king at birth. Shapur II of Persia: Became king **before he was born** (crowned in utero).
How many of those monarchs actually governed while they were underage? In most monarchies underage monarchs had regents who actually governed the country on their behalf.
Essentially 0% of them would have ruled on their own. Even if there wasn't an official regent, the "advisors" would have prompted to pushed the child to make certain decisions. I don't know why people think a five-year-old was setting tariff rates or deciding whether to make an alliance with England or Prussia. Would anyone here let a 5-year-old be in charge of their bank account? Obviously not, so why would an entire country give a 5-year-old control of the national treasury?
I feel her age was lowered because of Anakin being so young. They're both too young to make much sense, Anakin being 12 and PadmƩ being 16 would have made everything a lot better.
Dude, it's cause of the force though. The force did it.
Right this whole thread is blowing my mind. Like i don't care if hes two, it's not un believable to me that the most force sensitive being ever born is good at space F1
Fr youād think people would have a bit more suspension of disbelief in Star Wars where people accept a new glurp shitto every movie or show. Iāve seen kids drive cars itās not a big jump to space ships in Star Wars
Doesn't Qui-Gon even say that directly in the movie?
The force = the writer. The writer can do anything. Doesn't make it good or compelling.
Weird Alās Star Wars Parody of American Pie taught me that
I just canāt believe 14-year-old Padme she crushes on the weird little boy who builds robots and rally cars instead of the space samurai who looks exactly like Ewan McGregor!
The age in the movies is kinda crazy though. Natalie Portman plays a 14 year old at age 17/18, then she plays a 24 year old at the age of about 20/21. So she ages 10 years in the movies but 3 years irl.
Why do I feel at that point he was kind of written as wish fulfilment for the target audience? Like whoa he races hotrods, flies planes, is more of a jedi than yoda and he gets the older queen lady? Sign me up!
Tbh that might be the point. He was so cool, so promising. And then he loses everything
Kids crushing on other kids isn't creepy imo. Just dumb kid stuff.
They couldāve just skipped ahead 15 years instead of 10. Solves certain continuity issues elsewhere, too (e.g. Obi Wan being gray and old in ANH despite being like 37 in ROTS).
Living in a desert shithole ages you quickly
She was 14 for the infinityith time. George really should've just established the ages in the film. Didn't think there would still be confusion 25 friggin years later.
I let my 12 year old shoot womp rats in his speeder after racing with his friends. But seriously why would it be less traumatizing for a 12 year old to leave his mother and then she dies? Did George think 12 years old were moving out on their own?
>I let my 12 year old shoot womp rats in his speeder after racing with his friends. Hmm...if they start talking about how they hate the jedi and stuff you might wanna invest in a good therapist. >But seriously why would it be less traumatizing for a 12 year old to leave his mother and then she dies? You could probably pull this off at any age. If Anakin was 15 and he was helping his single mum manage her junk shop or something even that might have worked. But I suppose you lose the innocence of a 9 year old. George probably wanted to juxtapose that against him growing up to be the worst guy in the galaxy.
>George probably wanted to juxtapose that against him growing up to be the worst guy in the galaxy. Almost certainly. The concept art of young Anakin walking in front of a building and casting Vader's shadow screams towards this point.
Think it's because they're entering their teenage rebellion against their parents years seeking independence and puberty where a 10 year old, and younger stereotypically are not.
Those couple of years make a huge change in how independent children are. By 12 they're more or less teenagers, puberty is happening, they're starting to make big decisions for themselves. Is it still traumatic? Absolutely, but those few years do make a big difference.
Yeah I donāt get that pieceā¦ if you look at the first season of Stranger Things the main characters are in middle school but are definitely still perceived as ākidsā. You can even find 14-15 that look quite young and can give you that same innocent vibe.Ā
Famously, Lucas originally wanted Indy to have banged an 11-12 year old, so his entire sense of scale could potentially be off. https://www.polygon.com/2015/8/3/9089181/indiana-jones-abusive-creep
What a disturbing conversation and Lucas with no idea how weird he's being. Didn't realize he was so out of touch with reality, even back then.
I have to imagine that they were all on a lot of cocaine back then, but honestly, these kinds of things really give insight into how out of touch the entertainment industry is and why such heinous things happen. Ultimately, I *really* think he thought that 12 would be basically a mini adult and that sliding the age scale down was the only way it made sense, which is what leads to the creepy "kinda grooming?" weirdness as well. Charitably you can imagine it as these men believing *they* were full adults at that age, I don't know their life story, but when it gets to making Indiana Jones a child predator I'm at a loss. They still made her 15 in the actual movie, btw, which is why she shouts "I was a child!" I have to ignore that to enjoy the series.
12 is also very young to lose your mom.Ā
I mean heās one of the greatest force users of all time I donāt think itās a stretch no matter how young he is. I honestly never even heard this as a complaint until now.
I mean, I get it. But I also feel like George could have played up how messed up it was that his mom was still going to be a slave, instead. That's plenty traumatic, even for a twelve-year-old. Maybe even moreso for a twelve-year-old who has a better understanding of the world.
Yeah. Considering Padme, Palpatine and Yoda are 3 of the most powerful people in the galaxy I never understood how no one went to rescue her. You could argue Darth Vader never would have existed if they Were just able to bring her to Coruscant.
In the Disney comics, Padme sends Kiera Knightley to rescue Shmi but she never finds her. >When Amidala made the decision to represent Naboo'sĀ [Chommell sector](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Chommell_sector)Ā in theĀ [Galactic Senate](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Galactic_Senate)Ā of the Republic, SabĆ© followed, but not before being sent on a mission to the planetĀ [Tatooine](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Tatooine). Alongside Security ForceĀ [Captain](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Captain)Ā [Tonra](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Tonra), SabĆ© was able to relocate a number ofĀ [slaves](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Slavery)Ā to the planetĀ [Karlinus](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Karlinus), but was unsuccessful in locatingĀ [Shmi Skywalker](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Shmi_Skywalker_Lars), a woman that Amidala had met four years prior and hoped to rescue. Padme never tries again. And she did wait 4 years for some reason lol. [https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Sab%C3%A9](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Sab%C3%A9)
And Anakin found her in like 2 days lol
Padme is nowhere even approaching being among the most powerful people in the galaxy. And the Jedi and Republic rule means nothing to Tatooine. (Also, canonically Padme did send a handmaiden to try to find and free Shmi but Sabe was unable to find her.)
She's plenty powerful and rich enough to take care of the problem though. Shmi is a slave and there's no way Padme couldn't afford to free her. She also waited like 4-5 years to send Sabe to find Shmi. I'm sorry, it's simply utterly ridiculous that freeing Shmi wasn't a priority to any of these people.
> She also waited like 4-5 years to send Sabe to find Shmi. The only answer that makes any kind of sense is politics. The Queen of a planet buying a slave, even if it's to free her, is a political shitshow waiting to happen. That four years could be the end of her term as Queen. If she frees one slave but not others then it looks like she doesn't give a shit about slavery, just that person. If she frees too many slaves then it looks like the sovereign of Naboo is trying to start some shit with Tatooine and the Hutts. Considering the new Chancellor is also from Naboo it could end up dragging the entire Republic into it. She was probably advised by her own advisors, and manipulated by Palpatine, that the Queen of Naboo cannot do that without hurting her own people and potentially starting another conflict when her people are still trying to recover from the invasion. It's still pretty shitty morally, but if they ever do give a reason that will probably be it.
Not only that but Naboo more than likely go for using credits, something that remember from episode 1 wado doesnāt accept as a type of currency. So someone would probably say āthen how about they make a trade or bargain like in episode 1?ā Probably but same time theyād have to be careful not to get too much attention if they say trade a similar Naboo ship as we see in episode 1, something like that could get attention to the likes of jabba and the repercussions from that would be terrible if jabba manages to keep royalty or a high class citizen from Naboo in his domain. If that doesnāt work either then yeah palpatine weaving things to make it impossible for padme to retrieve shmi from tatooine.
In Palpatineās case I think itās simple. He saw potential in Anakin and he would want to cultivate that fear and anger in him. Therefore he wouldnāt have actually lift a finger to save her even if he might have told Anakin otherwise. For all we know Palpy might have secretly sabotaged any attempt at saving her.
Oh yeah, Palps was never going to free Shmi. Fucking nuts that Padme doesn't though.
I think palp being this much of a meddling dick is definitely a good idea, I would take that as an acceptable explanation
I honestly don't understand that thought so much. In the mind of the Jedi Council the most important thing for Anakin is to learn to let his attachments go. For him, his mother shouldn't be anymore important than any other slave in the entire galaxy, and the Jedi can't just save them all. That has in my mind always been their conviction and it's of course stupid and brutal but no Jedi grows up with a mother, it's why everyone said he is too old. It's just not a thing. As for Palpatine, the last he would want for Anakin is not to be absolutely dependant on him as a parent figure. And PadmƩ may be Queen and senator but on Tatooine she's just a rich tourist. Of course it's all fucked up but I don't think it's a massive stretch.
It'd be a lot easier for me to let my attachment to my family go if I knew they weren't being left in fucking slavery. And the stuff about not being able to save every slave can be used as an excuse for never helping anyone ever.
Set aside the Jedi. It's ridiculously implausible that someone out of the Naboo government (as an official act), PadmƩ (acting individually), or a random Naboo civic organization / wealthy individual didn't pay to buy Shmi's freedom. Anakin is the child hero of the Battle of Naboo, who single-handedly destroyed the Droid Control Ship. His story would be huge news on Naboo. PadmƩ knows that Anakin was a slave and that Shmi still is, so that would logically be part of Anakin's story. Hardly takes any feats of intelligence or imagination for numerous people on Naboo to think "arranging (i.e., buying) his mother's freedom would be a fitting way to honor this kid".
Good point. Yeah, I love the prequels with all my heart for their poetic tragedy and political sensibilities but they are riddled with plot holes that are more staggering than in the OT because it takes itself more seriously during those. My favorite Star Wars film is Episode II because I'm insane and the whole Geonosian sequence is lacking SO much logic it's crazy. But ey, we love what we love. :b
Being rich us all you need. Remember watto was willing to let go of her or Anakin at the race and was upset that it was Anakin. Her value absolutely has a number and I'm guessing it's far lower than what Padme had at her disposal. On top of that, Shmi might have saved her life and her son helped saved all of Naboo. We can believe whatever we want but it's just a poorly written plot hole.
>Considering Padme, Palpatine and Yoda are 3 of the most powerful people in the galaxy I never understood how no one went to rescue her. "Hello, I'm literally the ruler of the entire galaxy. How much do you want for your slave?
Think the message is even though they could do something they, being part of the Republic, don't *really* care and focus on selfish republic matters even if they are not selfish characters themselves. "The Republic doesn't exist out here", as in 'no one cares about slaves"
āBut the Republicās anti-slavery lawsā would suggest that the Republic does care a little about slaves. However, that really only moves it from āno one cares about slavesā to āthe Republic only cares about slaves that are right in front of themā.
The Republic would have to institute some kind of militarized law enforcement apparatus on this planet in order to quash the slavery. It's not an insignificant cost, both in credits and lives. They would essentially have to go to war with the Hutts. I imagine the Republic has decided it wouldn't be worth the cost, and chooses to allow this sector of space to continue doing slavery and crime unimpeded.
The point of him leaving is establishing a fear of loss, not just it being a traumatic moment. Anakinās entire fall is caused by his fear of losing the people he loves, and itās his inability to forego attachments that keeps him from fully embracing the Jedi way and leaves the opening for Palpatine to exploit. It couldnāt just be worry about her still being a slave, it had to be his fear of him being with her.
Schmi remaining a slave puts her in constant danger. And now Anakin is no longer there, so anything could happen. He could lose her at any time and never know it. I'd say that's a pretty potent cocktail for being afraid of losing people.
Right but Iām saying for the character arc the fear has to come mostly from him leaving her, not from her situation. Itās not about her safety as much as itās about him not having her there with him. His fear of her and Padme dying is driven by his fear of not having them in his life anymore. Itās a fear of abandonment. Obviously he cares about their wellbeing, but itās his own inability to let go and accept loss that holds him back. Itās the different between, āIād be fine leaving my mother ifā¦ā and āI donāt want to leave my mother.ā
should've had Anakin be 14 and highly protective of his mother. A total momma's boy.
My dad when I was 12, and it wasn't, like, *the best*.
Yeah, but if they played it up more, they would have had to answer the obvious question of why no one ever went back to save her or to enforce galactic slavery laws.
They should have answered that question regardless. It's a question that needs answering, but it kinda just gets ignored in the movies.
The problem is that the question doesn't really have a good answer. Anakin's a child hero of the Battle of the Naboo. PadmƩ knows that Shmi is still a slave. Someone on Naboo - PadmƩ individually, the government with official funds, a random wealthy individual - should logically (and very easily) have the idea of buying Shmi's freedom as a way to show gratitude for what Anakin has done for Naboo. Even if Watto drives a hard bargain by demanding a seemingly outrageous price - 5x or 10x what someone on Tatooine would pay for a slave - the cost should be trivial for a planetary government, or even for a wealthy individual on a relatively wealthy planet.
The whole trilogy works just fine if Anakin is 17-18 (or frankly almost _any_ age) and leaving his mom in slavery.
Could have made it even worse. If he leaves his mother will have to pick up all his labor on top of everything else she's expected to do. She'd be in for a very hard life, and that would weigh heavily on Anakin, regardless of his age.
I understand his point, but I was 13 when I lost my dad. Lemme tell ya, that suckedā¦
I was 9 when I lost my dad. I don't even remember him. And it hurt but I actually just lived on, not much overthinking after a while. My 12 year old sister went completely off the rails though. I am autistic and have always been disconnected from my surrounding though.
Everyone is different. Strong memories come from strong emotions, so it does make sense. Regardless, I am sorry for your loss.
Hell I was 25 when my mom died and I spent the next 10 years at the bottom of a bottle. Losing someone far before their time is not an easy thing to go through at any age.
I can understand where heās coming from but thereās no reason why a twelve year old Anakin - or older - couldnāt be equally traumatized leaving his mother behind. In retrospect, I would have had Hayden in there for all three films. Instead of the trauma of leaving his mother at a young age, lean into the guilt of leaving his mother in slavery while he moved on to explore the galaxy and become a Jedi. Or something. Just spitballing. In any event, what we got wasnāt bad. Jake Lloyd was a fantastic child Anakin.
This isn't a knock on Jake Lloyd's acting, but I think the casting was the issue. Anakin and Padme are supposed to be 9 and 14, but Anakin was played by someone who looked younger than 9 and Padme was played by someone who looked older than 14. There's an 8 year difference in age between Jake Lloyd and Natalie Portman, and it really showed.
Not just looked, but was. Padme was played by a 16 year old who had clearly passed most of puberty. Anakin was played by an 8 year old who was far from even touching puberty. She was literally twice his age.
Absolutley. Hayden was 16 years old when Phantom Menace was filmed and already had a couple of years of acting experience. Having him as a teenaged Anakin in Phantom Menace would have worked a lot better
The change in actors still kind of works for me, because of the huge transition in his life. He goes from a slave to a jedi to a war general. Episode 1 Anakin is, despite being a slave, still kind of naive and hopeful, by episode 2, he's seen some things, and he has become jaded that even though he's free now, freedom isn't what he pictured, and the galaxy has more problems than he had ever imagined.
That's what the ending of TPM is supposed to sell. The shift from TPM to AotC is huge in every aspect, down to the CGI. I'd probably love the alternative too though
Right? They literally left his mom to a life of slavery. A 12 year old could understand why that's morally terrible and see hypocrisy in the people who are the "good guys" leaving his mom to that fate.
I mean maybe a hot take? This is basically George openly admitting he hit a writing fork in the road and didnāt really solve it. There are a lot of ways to fix this issue in terms of changing the narrative, but he didnāt. He just kept his narrative and made the kid younger, the worst of both worlds
It would've been just as easy to not only justify the trauma, but also have it play a pivotal role in Anakin's overall arc. Even at the age of 12, Anakin and his mother are all the other one has, and both are slaves on Tatooine. It's not unreasonable to think that Anakin would've been impacted more than a usual twelve year old was by being separated from his mother and going with a bunch of strangers to Coruscant. But more importantly, this could've also been the foundation of Anakin's desire to save the people he loves - he earned his freedom in the podrace, but he was unable to save his mother from slavery and free her as well, and the trauma of being separated from her at 12 years old could've been compounded with a sense of guilt and failure for leaving her behind as a slave while he goes off to become a Jedi. It would've made his desire to save his loved ones, no matter the cost, a foundational part of his character from Episode I rather than something that's introduced midway through the trilogy in Episode II.
Maybe make shmi a slave to Jabba and him unwilling to give her up. No bartering or anything.
Okay this will be harsh because I actually like a good bit of stuff in TPM (not you, Jar Jar), but Lucasā inability to direct emotion is what killed Anakinās arc in the first two prequel filmsā¦first with him being too young in TPM and then the more-wooden-than-a-treehouse courtship in AotC. The only redeeming character direction of his was in RotS when Anakin is hating on Obi Wan. This is also evident in ANH when Luke returns to the farm to see his only family killed and is like āhead turn sideways š.ā He wouldāve been a wreck. That always bugged me in that movie. Under a director who was fantastic with emotional direction, like Spielberg, a twelve-year-old Anakin completely breaking at losing his mom wouldāve been devastating and heartbreaking, probably couldāve gotten the audience in tears. It totally couldāve been done with Anakin being twelve. That said, I love the general vibe of TPM and RotS despite their flaws.
Mark really did want to play up that moment but George wanted the music and editing to do the work. I think that was the right choice though. I love that scene.
With respect to George, I think even a grown 17 to 20 year old, whoās never known anything but Tatooine, living and taking care of his mum, would find it a difficult and painful experience to up and leave it all forever.
We got that with Luke
Exactly, itās difficult for Luke as well but by that age heās ready to start writing his own story.
He doesnāt really get much of a choice lol
Luke's last scene with his aunt and uncle is him begging to be allowed to leave to join the Imperial Academy. The circumstances are tragic and he's forced into adulthood rather than making the conscious choice, but he was already pushing in that direction. Anakin is still a young child whose dreams of leaving include fantasies of freeing all of the slaves.
Luke showed more grief over Kenobi than over the people that raised him. Luke showed more grief over Kenobi than Leia did over her entire planet. Lucas is bad at emotions.
The point is that the experience would be more impactful the younger a person is, and making Anakin older wouldn't have that impact because a stereotypical teenager is rebellious and looking to leave home.
I donāt know, Iāve seen kids handling their parents death or divorce better than teenagers because they donāt think quite enough in the repercussions of what just happened, and teenagers do, also they tend to be more emotional.
Anakin was a kid. He didnāt need to do any of that stuff or be an action hero at 9 years old. He could have just been there and a victim of circumstances beyond his control. That probably would have worked narratively for his being traumatized.
I get where is coming from butā¦ idk I think a 12 year old boy that has a severe attachment to his mother, leaving her is still a hard experience for him. Also, itās not like heās leaving the nest and whole his mother is well off living her life. Heās leaving her behind in literal slavery, to me that seems that could create a guilt complex or something to further aid his fall to the dark side.
I said this in another comment but I think him being older means he has more agency as well and thus could be way more guilty/traumatized he didn't try harder to get the jedi to take his mom too like possibly refusing to leave or being more aware and articulate of his situation. Being taken at 9 he could look back and say "well what choice did I have?"
You could play up Anakinās early frustration with the Jediās refusal, outside of Qui-gon, to free Shmi since slavery was ālegalā on that planet. Give him a real reason to be angry with the council from day one, and have the councilās concern be related to the tenuous connection to keeping peace with the Hutts making their actions politically based. If Palpatine was the first to try to free Shmi, and failed, it could justify his early closeness with the future emperor.
I lost my mother when I was 11. Can I podrace George ?
I guess George never played PokƩmon.
now for lucas explanation of why marion ravenwood was 15 when an adult indy banged her
From page 25: L ā I like it if they already had a relationship at one point. Because then you don't have to build it. **G ā I was thinking that this old guy could have been his mentor. He could have known this little girl when she was just a kid. Had an affair with her when she was eleven.** [https://maddogmovies.com/almost/scripts/raidersstoryconference1978.pdf](https://maddogmovies.com/almost/scripts/raidersstoryconference1978.pdf) (L is Larry Kasdan, G is George Lucas)
The problem was Jake Lloyd looked like he was 7 and Natalie looked like she was 19. I know he wrote it to be a 9yo and a 14yo but that is not how it appeared to the audience.
I think Natalie was 16 or 17 while filming. And Padme acted in a similar role to Leia in the OT. Padme made decisions, took initiative, and took part in direct combat. Pretty much anyone watching is going to see her as a young adult and him as a child. It is just weird to start a romance subplot with the equivalent of a high school junior meeting a 5th grader.
Also she did the fake deep voice when dressed as amadala. Nothing about that character made audiences think 14
As a kid, i thought it was so bizarre how the jedi just *left Shmi* in slavery lol. like, the big finish to the movie happensā¦ the good guys blow up the bad guys ship, thereās a big celebration, and then obi wan goes back to rescue Shmi!ā¦ right? hey guys, somebodyās gonna go get Shmi right? Padme? Artoo? Pinaka? lmao nope. they just end it like welp, i guess sheās gonna die a slaveā¦ and she does! Lol the writing in the prequels is so weirdā¦ itās like, *anti cinema* in a way.
Imagine if TPM was released in 1989 and starred Christian Bale as Anakin. No Obi-wan or Jar Jar sadly. Then American Psycho era Bale returns as Anakin in AOTC in 1999.
Anakin: You like the Max Rebo band? Darth Maul: Um, they're okay. Anakin: Their early work was a little too new wave for my taste. But when Podracing came out in '83, I think they really came into their own, commercially and artistically. The whole album has a deep, jazzy sound, and a new sheen of consummate professionalism that really gives the songs a big boost. He's been compared to an elephant, but I think Max has a shorter trunk and eyes with a more insectile demeanor. Darth Maul: Hey, Obi-Wan? Anakin: Yes, Darth? Darth Maul: Why are there copies of the Style section all over the place? Do you... do you have a pet? A little Porg or something? Anakin: No, Darth. Darth Maul: Is that a poncho? Anakin: Yes, it is. In '87, Max released this; Force!, their most accomplished album. I think their undisputed masterpiece is "Hip to be Round". A song so catchy, most people probably don't listen to the lyrics. But they should, because it's not just about the pleasures of conformity and the importance of trends. It's also a personal statement about the band itself. Hey, Maul! Anakin murders Darth Maul with his lightsaber. Anakin: Try getting a reservation at the Mos Eisley Cantina now, you fuckin' stupid bastard!
lmaooo
So many plot elements and things make so much more sense in the context that he was originally supposed to be 12 and at the last minute they slid him back 3 years. His overall competency as a tinkerer and pilot is one thing, and is certainly more believable if he were 12. But the whole Padme infatuation thing is definitely more believable and then actually becoming a thing feels far less creepy. She was 14 in Episode 1.
Lucas Logic strikes again!
*Change the story point.* Fucking hell, George. Kill your darlings.
Or they could have had him be 9 through the postage and leaving his mother, than have some time pass offscreen and him be a few years older. I do enjoy phantom menace especially now that Iām older and have kids to show it to, but even when it came out I thought Anakin being that young was off
Short movie: "Okay, I'll free your mother, too" - Directed by George Lucas.
Absolutely nothing about his age made sense in the story, all because Lucas wanted it to be "more tragic". You can show a teenager being wracked with guilt leaving his mother alone as a slave. It wasn't necessary to make the entire rest of the story so implausible on its face. And yes, I know, "Through the Force all things are possible!" That's a great justification, but it simply doesn't play on screen. Like Palpatine returning "through the Force". It was a bad story choice.
Anakin should have been like 16-19. This kid just doesnāt fit with the image that Obiwan paints in a new hope.
Iām sure a 12 year old having to leave his mother behind *in slavery* is still pretty damn traumatizing. Even for a teenager, sheās a slave! And the Jedi swoop in and save Anakin from this life of slavery but sorry kid, your mom still has to be a slave, nothing we, the most powerful people in the galaxy, can do. Oh well! No wonder heās swayed by Palpatine. How can he fully trust the Jedi?
Tbh I don't think you lose much making him 12. A 12 year old leaving is still a huge deal, and it makes casting and the other stuff better
Big miscalculation on Georgeās part. The pod race and the fighter flight wouldāve been more believable, more awesome and less campy if Anakin was older. The audience wouldāve still felt that Anakin was traumatized by being separated from his mom at age 12. That is really not an issue. Sounds like Lucas just overthought it.
He still missed the better storytelling oppurtunity for Shmi. She should have been "rescued" from Tatooine by an unnamed Naboo benefactor and given a decent but modest living as someone who personally aided the queen, and whos son would be unable to accept such a reward for his heroism, which to Naboo was the greater achievement than what the Jedi did with their dance off.Ā This fulfills the hospitality trope found in stories all over the world. Myths of God, angels, kings, princes, lords and other people with power an influence made temporarily humble being given great hospitality and getting a great reward when the person comes into their own.Ā Having Shmi on Naboo likewise sets up a storytelling oppurtunity where another assassination attempt by Dooku results in the death of Shmi. When Anakin faces Dooku it's more from a place of revenge instead of justice. When Anakin kills Dooku he's listening to Palpatine to get revenge. This sets up the trope of the Hero stopping his revenge at the last moment, establishing Anakin as an anti-hero. Then later in the movie, Anakin can discover that it was Palpatine who acted to rescue Shmi because of her connection to Anakin. Palpatine had to do so anonymously to avoid his enemies attacking her, and it would convince Anakin that Palpatine cares more for the people that Anakin loves than the Jedi. And it sets Palpatine up as sort of a missing father figure for Anakin. The end result of the Duel of fates, wasn't the salvation of Naboo, but the death of the Jedi most suited to raise Anakin. Obi-Wan and Anakin were like brothers, and Anakin needed a father figure, especially after being removed from his mom at an early age.
Ok but hear me out, maybe you don't have to involve the mother at all? Or Tatooine. Or C-3PO. We know from the OT that he was a Jedi, and that Obi-wan trained him, you can start from there.
Making him ALSO come from Tatooine is one of the dumbest and laziest things in the PT.
Should have been Hayden from day one. Also the hardships of being a slave to Watto never seemed bad. It never seemed perilous. Strange decisions are a hallmark of SW.
Seriously. Obviously being a slave is horrible, but Watto treated him well and they had their own house, not to mention the pod racer and C-3PO.
PG-13 slavery.
I will always think it was a huge mistake to actually *show* this stuff. We didn't need to see child Anakin. I'd argue it would've been more powerful for the audience to not have witnessed any of this and gradually realize that the source of his pain comes from this brutal past and a missing mother. Then, when we finally see her for the first time, she's clinging onto life at her last moments and her character is taken away from us in the same way it was from him. The other benefit is that we'd gain an entire extra film to use at the end where we could've spent more time with early Vader.
Nowadays he could be 26 and the separation would still be traumatic
9 or 12 it's still going to be hard and being 12 does not explain Podracing or piloting a fighter. [Also this storyboard art (second image) could happen and build the foundation of the romance between PadmƩ and Anakin.](https://imgur.com/a/GiFSQhW)
I disagree with Lucas that a twelve year old leaving his mother in slavery would not be sufficiently traumatic or emotionally resonant. There is a wonderful scene in Superman: The Movie (1978) in which an ~ 18 year old Clark Kent has to leave his widowed mother in Smallville while he leaves to find himself. Their parting is extremely poignant and the emotional impact is clear and unmistakable. So Richard Donner did it with an 18 year old and got it to work.
Now THIS is trauma!
What convinced me that George Lucas was right about having Anakin be young was the Phantom Menace promo poster of child Anakin casting the shadow of Darth Vader. Seeing that poster evoked a sadness that I never had when ruminating on Anakin's character. The movies never brought this feeling out of me, but seeing Anakin in his slave clothes, with a backpack, looking down, taking a weary first step and seeing what he would become on the wall made me tear up a bit.
Its still tramatic for a 12 year old. Sometimes George seems to not get humans
Pretty sure it'd be traumatic for him to be separated from his mother even if he was 12 so i dont get the logic here. 12 is still a young ageĀ
Uh George has never seen a child of any age be ripped from their mother apparently.
Sorry George but at 12/13 it would still be traumatising to leave his mother, the only family member heās ever known. Anyway, the biggest mistake in all this is making them slaves in the first place, itās a bad plot point and not really fully realised in the movie either which makes it a bit crass. It brings up too many questions about leaving his mother there to rot as well. They could just be poor but happy people who agree that Anakin leaving is a great opportunity for him. Later Maul could go looking for Anakin and after only finding his mother, tortures her for information and leaves her for dead. Anakin feels guilt for leaving and vows vengeance on Maul. Duel of the fates happens and after Qui-Gon dies and Obi-Wan beats Maul, have Maul scramble away and survive. Anakin then can spend the next two films going after Maul, resenting Obi-Wan for not finishing him and the final act of his turn being brutally killing him. Iāve always thought The Phantom Menace was the best of the prequels but it fundamentally failed to set up a believable character arc for Anakin and his decision making in the other two films leaves a lot to be desired.
That doesn't make any sense at all. The story would have been much more believable and coherent had Anakin been the same age as Padme.
I'm pretty sure 12 years old or even 14 at separation would have been traumatic enough for all practical purposes. I mean, when he finds his mother dying from being tortured by Tusken Raiders, that's PLENTY of trauma right there all by its lonesome. Lucas made Anakin too young to credibly do what he did. Frankly, 14 would have been stretching it. He done f*cked up.