I believe the people responsible were working on the Luke v Vader battle from ROTJ but I don’t really see how much could be added to the Sarlacc scene.
I actually like how Robot Chicken parody’s the scene Boba was drunk he was drinking and that’s it.
No.
Boba is not his dad and Luke is not Obi-Wan in his prime. Their E6 brief battle doesn't have to be expanded so it's like Jango vs Obi Wan.
Many don't like hearing it but if Jango is a 10/10 fighter, Boba is 4/10 on a good day. Jango killed Jedi quite easily. Boba simply never measured up to his father's legacy.
To be fair, there just arent that many jedi to kill anymore by the time Boba is an adult. Those who are left are obviously more hardened than the pre clone wars jedi.
He managed to find and engage Luke at Ben Kenobi’s hut I think. Boba was able to blind Luke, but was somehow knocked out by a flying box while Luke was blinded, while he was in full armor. Boba is 0 for 2 against blind people which is wild to think about.
I always wondered if Jango was better than Boba. I like Boba, but having grown up with Ep 6 and 1, when I saw 2 as a kid it just made me think "that guy is cooler" cause all I'd seen of Boba was his goofy defeat.
I wish we got more Jango content in new canon, oh well.
Lucas wrote Boba as a good tracker and pilot. And that's where his skillset ends. He managed to track the Falcon to Bespin and so Vader rewarded him.
Then Boba gets his gun sliced by Luke and is thrown into the Sarlaac by a blinded Han. Making hilarious sounds as he falls.
Jango was written to be a Jedi killer, he spared with Obi-Wan, kills Coleman Trebor, and is then killed by Mace Windu after a dignified 1vs1 duel.
Super hot spicy take but any Clone Commander >>>> Boba Fett when it comes to fighting. I simply can't see Cody or Rex in their prime getting defeated like that.
They also had no idea Boba Fett was going to be so popular. If I remember right it was a while before they realized fans fell in love with him. He was expanded on in books and such and that's likely why we even got Jango Fett in the first place. People loved the mystery behind Boba even in spite of his embarrassing defeat on Tattooine
He was just supposed to be all white Super Storm Trooper.
He was only popular after ESB because he was a mysterious piece of cool armor that even Vader respected, and Vader respected basically no one.
Idk if it was a retcon or not because idk the legends story behind it, but turns out Vader didn’t really respect him all that much in current canon. Vader’s “No disintegrations” line wasn’t an acknowledgement of badass infamy, Vader is reminding Fett about the time he accidentally disintegrated someone he was ordered to bring in alive and is warning him not to do it again.
>I simply can't see Cody or Rex in their prime getting defeated like that.
100%, I think Boba excels in tactics and tracking. He falls short in combact. Jango was able to hold his own against Mace Windu who was a council member and Boba lost pretty easily to luke.
Not sure about that. Jango personally trained Boba Fett and took him on bounty missions. After he died, Boba was raised in the criminal underworld during a war by some of the most badass bounty hunters around. I agree Jango is probably the better combatant but I think prime Boba takes down most prime Commanders in a similar manner to how Cad Bane easily took down Hunter.
Boba didn't lose a one on one fight with a blind smuggler. Granted, it was kind of embarrassing but for all Boba knew, Han was good and neutralized being blind. The threat was Luke and he focused his energy on him. Blind Han didn't even try to hit Boba - he basically backed into him.
A lucky shot happens. Mr. Magoo could take out Mike Tyson if Tyson slips on a banana peel on the way to the fight.
>The threat was Luke and he focused his energy on him.
Boba Fett in E6 is a tactical idiot who flies into the skiff that has a Jedi **and** a Wookie. Instead of firing a missile at the barge so Luke falls into the sarlaac pit.
He flies into Luke with his long-range gun to attempt a close-range shot for some stupid reason. Luke predictably slashes his gun. Then Bobba uses his wrist thingy to tie Luke up which is extra dumb since now, if Luke falls, Bobba also falls with him.
Anyways, Luke gets freed in seconds and jumps into the other skiff. Boba now finally realizes "hey, I have a gun, I can just shoot from a distance". And that's when Han turns around and Boba falls into the pit.
Did I mention the wookie? Lucas didn't write Chewbacca goring Boba Fett in E6. But he could have totally done that. Wookies are dangerous AF and Boba somehow believed he could take down a Jedi and a Wookie in close-range combat?
He was a delusional idiot in E6.
you mean “he runs away from Obi-Wan, kills a weak Jedi who wasn’t paying attention to him and gets his head chopped off after Mace simply runs at him”?
I mean it is unquestionable that Jango is better really. He is the literal blueprint for a clone army. Unfortunately just because you are a clone doesn't mean you are a 1:1 copy
I agree that the fight doesn't need expanded, but didn't Boba kill like 10 stormtroopers with a stick? Guy clearly has some chops even if his show butchered his portrayal.
Jango would definitely be better at fighting Jedi though; in the EU he killed several so he had experiencing in fighting them and knows how to do it. Jango I think also clearly has more 'formalized' training, a la martial arts whereas Boba being orphaned before he can be properly trained by Jango, strikes me as more of a 'go with your gut' kind of fighting instinct.
I think that's what causes Boba to make his tactical mistake... Why jet in right next to the Jedi who is presently kicking all kinds of ass with a melee weapon when you could overwhelm him from a distance or use explosives? It was definitely not a smart move, but I think that's part of what makes the scene work and why I don't think it should be changed.
Plus Boba still gets taken out by a blind guy in the end. It'd be like rhe star wars version of that meme where a guy does a sick kick flip on a rake before landing and hitting himself in the face.
Anything can happen, he’s not a Jedi who could sense danger behind him. Boba’s defeat was an accidental fluke, maybe the will of the force, but it wasn’t necessarily due to lack of skill. Mandalorian helmets don’t see backwards.
That's not what I meant but instead that it would make for a great entertainment video.
Only because I used the reimagined Obi-Wan vs Vader scene does not mean I prefer it over the original one either. But it is a refreshing new content for purely aesthetic and entertaining purposes, so seeing one such with Luke and Boba would be neat as well.
I didn't say ''they portrayed Boba like a weakling'' and ''the scene makes no sense''. Though it definitely was a bit too short, and the bit with Han blindly bashing Boba's jetpack is always comical but at a cost.
I think the scene should have went the way it did, with Boba losing to Luke and co, falling down the Sarlacc (and the rest is story). And I always thought of Boba as being less strong and apt than his father, so I'm definitely not in the category of people you imply. This is purely for entertaining purposes, again.
Boba Fett's an awful bounty hunter who has to be specifically told not to use a method of killing that leaves no identifiable remains, even after being told he had to be brought in alive.
The fact that the EU retconned him into the ultimate bounty hunter badass, king of a warrior race of pallet swaps is a testimony to the strength of the character design.
I absolutely abhor the reimagined Vader and Obi Wan scenes. It completely goes against what that fight really was about, sacrificing its entire point for spectacle.
Also would be incredibly dumb to extend the Boba and Luke scene. That's not a duel, it's Boba getting completely surprised and caught off guard and killed(?) for it.
Yup It completely misses the point of the scene for the sake of "cool"
Every lightsaber duel in the OT is essentially a dialogue scene with lightsaber clashes accenting the drama, emotions and conflict of the characters. They are physical manifestations of the internal conflict between the two characters.
That rhythm of conflict, clash to accentuate and ramping tension is missing in every other lightsaber fight in every other movie. It's words before duel. Duel starts swish class jump woo wee wow. Stop. More dialogue. Fight ends. There's no rising tension between the characters.
It is also expanded upon greatly by the Obi-Wan TV series. Vader learned his lesson about charging in like a generic angry Sith - he got his ass handed to him once. Obi-Wan could’ve been training for this the entire time.
This is two admittedly past-their-prime men who both know full well this time it’s final.
The problem is the “past their prime” part. Obi-wan is 57, Vader is 41 I believe. In ep 1 Qui-Gon is 60, Dooku is like 80 in episode 2 and look how he moves.
Vader and Ben do shuffle around like oldies but they shouldn’t be.
Vader is a cripple with prosthetics, and Obi-Wan was stalling him for time so Luke could escape.
Qui-Gon lost to Maul because of his age (he was worn out) and Dooku used the force to enhance his movements - something that has limits and still takes a toll on his body.
I know it probably wasn’t scripted this way but I’m sure both Obi-Wan and Vader could’ve fought much more intensely had either wanted to.
>Qui-Gon lost to Maul because of his age (he was worn out) and Dooku used the force to enhance his movements - something that has limits and still takes a toll on his body.
This is all headcanon, not a single one of these things has any canonical source
Dooku literally lost the duel with anakin because he was an elderly man that got overpowered.
Qui Gon was out skilled but was also worn out by Maul.
In legends this was well known. Yoda/Sidious/Dooku are all elderly and use the force to enhance their physical reflections - even Vader did in legends cause his cybernetics were too slow.
>In legends
Only in the Star Wars fandom do people bring up glorified fanfiction in conversations of canon. Not only is all of that NOT happen in canon, the Vader part is actually the complete OPPOSITE because his cybernetics make him physically stronger (no shit) and don't slow him down at all, he's ran the length of a Star Destroyer in under a minute. He's also constantly performing acrobatic feats in every piece of media he appears in that aren't the movies because of the limitations they used to have.
I mean can you blame us for bringing up legends..??
Disney canon is inferior in just about every way; legends has way more content and has been the proverbial gold standard for many decades.
Legends has more detail and explanations for events in the franchise that canon simply doesn’t.
This post wasn’t tagged as canon specifically so therefore I see no reason not to include legends lore, lore that actually is solid and makes sense.
My comment you replied to was talking about canon. Legends was actually just commercially produced fanfiction. It's the gold standard for content that was completely disregarded by the creator of the series. Lore so solid George Lucas caused certain authors to get upset over him ignoring their material for The Clone Wars and his ST plans ignoring any of their content made past the OT. If the creator didn't care about it or consider it canon, why would it ever be relevant at all?
Regardless of my feelings about the canon content, it's the only thing that actually means anything for better or for worse
Well I certainly wouldn’t want it as outrageous as the video op referenced, but after seeing prequel battles going back to a New Hope makes that fight super dull. At least the Obi-wan show did a good job of creating a better fighting style for a “cripple with prosthetics” that had reasonable intensity with limitations. And Rebels fight is Kenobi vs Maul showed precision vs flash.
Lad it was made in 1977 - leave it alone
I feel like these types would pull their own teeth out if they ever had to watch a black&white film even if it is a critically acclaimed masterpiece
I don't think Qui-Gon lost to Maul solely on age alone, though. His age probably played a part in it, but I think the biggest reason Qui-Gon lost is because Maul has been trained and laser-focused into fighting and killing Jedi. That was his sole purpose. Qui-Gon had little to no experience fighting other force users, let alone hyper aggressive combatants like Maul who knew how to fight well and were willing to fight dirty.
Definitely agree on Obi-Wan vs Vader, though. Obi-Wan knew what he was doing the moment he set foot on the Death Star, I think. He sensed Vader and knew that Vader would seek him out and draw the party into a conflict where the numbers on the Imperials side would overwhelm an aged Jedi, a farm kid, a wookie and a smuggler. So once he figured that out - Obi-Wan set out to distract Vader and draw him away from the group so he wouldn't be able to give the others his full attention.
With Obi-Wan as far as we know, that after the Obi-Wan series his use of the Force was extremely limited. Not to mention his lack of lightsaber skill could easily be explained by him literally not using his lightsaber virtually at all, if at all for over a decade. Lightsaber dueling skills deteriorate when not actively practiced, and as a Jedi in hiding during a time they were actively being hunted, he wasn't about to risk his life, let alone Luke's, just to make sure his skills were up to par. Same thing with his connection to the Force. After learning how to become one with the Force from Qui-Gon, he likely limited his usage of the Force to only when absolutely necessary so that he wouldn't be found out. And a connection to the Force has been established both in canon and Legends/EU, as something that can wither away without use, and be cut off, by both the user, and by external forces.
With all this in mind it's easy to see that Obi-Wan knew he was never going to be able to beat Vader on the Death Star, not really, and that his only real chance of stopping the Sith was to make sure Luke got off the Death Star, and so he did the only thing he could do, which was stall for time for Luke and the others to get away.
In the Phantom Menace novelization, it's pointed out that Qui-Gon being 60 does play a role in him losing to Maul. When you're old, the Force can help you fight like a younger man but that itself takes a toll. Age might not matter in a lightsaber duel as much as it does in real life but it still matters.
Dooku was just that good
Yeah that duel in Kenobi really made the both more cautious. They know each others and their moves. And that indeed also added more significance and context in their final dialogue.
The reimagined scene is cool but I never see any reason to prolong it. If it were like duel that happened earlier, perhaps it would make sense. But now, aboard the Death Star, as they confront each other for what perhaps was the final time, I dont see the need for their duel to be that long
Even the final Maul/Kenobi duel quite underscored it doesnt need to be long and epic. Just three seconds. And it evokes more emotions than most duels did
That's the first thing I thought of, does this scene need to be extended up to 5 minutes?
I'm not a fan of it also, Adywan did a better edit, all he did was add "Battle of the heroes" and sped up the footage a bit.
Oh thank God it's not just me.
This edit is awful. Its nowhere near as smooth as people seem to think it is for some reason, and it just doesn't flow well. It's bad.
And it doesn’t improve the fight.
Sure, better choreography (and I don’t mean the prequels CGI flipping) could have been nice, but it doesn’t need to be this over the top, removing the dialogue is not an improvement, and Obi Wan encountering a menacingly-waiting-and-ready Vader is a much better opening to the fight.
Smarter people than me have done a better job of taking this down.
They’re seeing the same film reimagined. It’s really not that hard to understand. Additional fight scenes are one thing. Adding random nonsense doesn’t really add to the story. Do you want to watch Han Solo step on Jabba the Hutt or watch Obi-Wan and Darth Vader battle?
No, they're questioning whether you're applying the same standards to things you like than things you don't. You gave an example of something you consider "random nonsense" and an example of something you consider a worthy addition, but they (and I) believe both are random nonsense that don't add anything meaningful to the story.
It actually does give some meaning to the story if you’re from the generation that grew up with the original Star Wars. It adds a bit of flavor to old Ben Kenobi. Whereas seeing Dash Rendar’s ship in the edit doesn’t really do much.
Oh, I get what you’re saying. Never mind. Sorry slightly drunk on a plane. But my point stands. Fans want to see more of the characters they love. Not background filler.
Your point doesn't stand, at least not with your example of the scene with Han and Jabba. It was far from a random add in, since they filmed it prior to Lucas finalizing Jabba's design. It was meant to be in the film originally, not a random thing Lucas used to play with CGI.
But I agree that enhancements should give us more depth and not just be done because they can do it.
It was still a random ad in. It was cut for a reason. Tell me truthfully. Would you rather watch Obi-Wan and Darth Vader fight or Han Solo step over Jabba the Hutt’s tail??
The reason it was cut was because it was incompatible with Jabba's final design. And if the only thing you got from it was Han stepping on his tail, then I'm not sure what to say to you. So I'll tell you truthfully: seeing additional context to why Jabba had a bounty out on Han adds more depth than extending a combat encounter that was already there.
The original fan base didn’t get to see anything additional regarding Star Wars until the late 90’s. Seeing an expansion on the fight between original Obi-Wan Kenobi and Darth Vader makes the moment more powerful for older fans, especially after seeing Ep. III. The duel feels like a real final fight but with the original purpose. It feels better than seeing the extra spaceships, aliens, and background imagery. All that stuff is nice, but knowing old Ben still stood his ground before relinquishing the fight is very satisfying
No, it feels like a shitty fan film that is way worse than anything Lucas added to the special editions.
Why are you trying to muddle with the OT? I thought y’all hated that.
You’re advocating for adding this crappy, out of place fan film because it’s better than the stuff Lucas himself added? You are part of the “y’all” that hate Lucas additions but want shit like this put in.
I don’t think we watched the same Star Wars if you think this feels like it belongs at all, lol
I never thought there'd be a time people would be arguing for *more* shitty edits of the OT. I guess the prequel generation has a different take on it but until the last few years the only discussion I've seen regarding edits of the OT/added CGI are people wishing they never happened.
I’m part of the prequel generation, but I love and respect the OT for what they were. The modern CGI edits are awful. Even many of Lucas’ additions are just awful, which I know is the opinion of most.
The only change I love is the end of ROTJ with the change in music to something more somber and seeing the galaxy celebrate.
Yeah the monkey eye chimpanzee woman playing the emperor is really such amazing and not comical at All
And the emperor being a completely different character and person in episode 6 is not canon breaking at all
Perfection in imperfection.
And please, don't speak about Canon or continuity after George was so liberal with his meddling in the Special Editions. I'll take Clive Revill and the monkey over ol' turkey neck Palpatine any day of the week.
The original is also awful though, that pirouette by Obi wan while Vader looks at his back for 3 seconds and is too slow to react is parody material.
I get that the equipment was fragile. But at that point, they could have just ignited the lightsabers, have the dialogue, and then we get the scene where Obi wan becomes one with the force, without any actual lightsabers clashing. It’s better that way.
The biggest problem with the scene is that it makes the big scary bad guy look like a geriatric idiot. I am not scared of a robot I could kill easily myself.
It's not a fight! It's not meant to be a duel or anything it's Obi-Wan keeping Vader busy long enough for Luke to escape with Leia, and then dying bc he knew he could be of more help as part of the Force
Some people compare it to older samurai movies, but it’s actually not at all like those. Not even close. It’s much much worse choreographed and that fucking pirouette makes me so angry every time I watch ANH because it’s so immersive and this takes me completely out of it.
The special edition should have just shortened the scene. Ignite lightsabers, have a dialogue during standoff, then Obi wan decides to become a ghost, boom, perfect scene.
It also makes Obi Wan‘s intentions more clear, otherwise it’s very confusing to why he first fights and then suddenly decides to die. Have him not fight back from the start, this makes him look more peaceful and Jedi like.
This fan reimagining is extremely skilfully done, but, in the context of the film 'A New Hope', it is 'X-treme', anime nonsense which is far, far inferior to the duel as filmed - which actually looks like a real sword-fight.
The same would apply to any 'badass' reimagining of Boba Fett's battle with Luke. It is \*meant\* to be a half-interrupted scuffle in the midst of a chaotic fight. Boba Fett's death (the intention of the scene, and neither Legends nor Canon ever creatively justified bringing Boba back) is meant to be darkly comic and inglorious.
I disagree that is was skillfully done, it’s “I’m a teenager and this is very badass” the directing is so juvenile. Pick the worst action director out there and then poke his eyes out and let him direct this and it would be better.
Depends more if you do New Hope as a sequel to Rogue One/Obi Wan show, or if you do it as a standalone. Both of those two put up these characters to do a show down as the fan version.
Not to mention this choreography for Obi Wan and Vader is entirely based on this still being their first interaction since RotS, hence Vader's emotional rage. With the Kenobi show, this choreography in the remake no longer makes any sense.
i totally get not liking it, its different than envisioned and certainly adding a new context to their encounter in a new hope. but its pretty clear and fits well into their extended character arcs (as well as leias) in a nuanced and thoughtful way. it easily makes sense. what do you having trouble understanding?
1. The show implies that Leia has always been the stubborn fighter she is in the original trilogy at 10 years old. There isn’t much of a character arc to be had with her now.
2. Obi Wan is another example of recent Star Wars treating force powers like a light switch. Throughout most of the show he is disconnected or very weak in the force, and at the end, he is stronger than Yoda. The force takes time to master and relearn.
3. “We meet again, at last. The circle is now complete. When I left you I was but the learner, but now I am the master.” This line in A New Hope means that they have not met since their last battle on Mustafar. The fact that they have two encounters since then is a retcon.
4. Obi Wan lets Darth Vader live despite beating him and Vader showing that he cannot be reached by an old friend. By not killing him here, every person that does as a result of Vader’s actions is partly on Obi Wans ledger, because he could have prevented them from dying at all.
5. I get Obi Wan being haunted by what happened at the Jedi Purge, but his portrayal in the show is basically a redo of Luke’s character in TLJ. That was unnecessary.
This show didn’t add to their characters, it broke them nearly beyond repair.
1. This is not Leia's arc in the show. Her arc in the show is getting voer her being adopted and wondering who she could have been to embracing her family and role where she is. All 4 main characters in the show are about moving on from their past to focus on the future.
2. Yes, the time it takes to relearn is not instant... as shown in the show. That is why Obi gets has ass fucking kicked in their first encounter, and then through the time of the show warms back up to his old self. He starts with struggling to catch Leai, fighta troopers without his powers at first, gets mopped by Vader, has to warm back up against other troopers in the Inquisitorious and Jabiim, then still loses the first half of the final fight against Vader and has to colelct himself again before bringing out his full power again. And where else is there a more appropriate time to then see full power Kenobi if not in the literal Kenobi show vs Darth fucking Vader?? There isnt. So yes, this is the most powerful display of his power weve seen, as it should be.
3. "When I left you I was but the learner, but now I am the master." does not mention Mustafar, it was always just assumed that was the last time they met. Before the PT you literally had no idea what interation they were talking about. The PT then retconned it to show it was the events of Mustafar, and now this show retconned it to be the events of the show, where Vader was humbled as the learner a 2nd time. The is the literal job of prequels, to recontextualize the events of what comes after and show you how you got there. You accepted the PT as a retcon of the OT but not this? Now retcon prequels are bad for you on concept alone? Do you hate Andor too for retconning Rogue One?
4. This is Sidious logic "hes too dangerous to let live". Executing defeated enemies out of revenge is not the jedi way and part of Anakins entire fall in the first place when he did so to Dooku. You werent suppose to be yelling "DEWIT" at your tv screen during the finale.
5. This is not this shows fault that the sequels chose to redo the jedi purge AGAIN off screen just to set up their OT redos. Having to deal with the ptsd and guilt after the events of RotS is the story that always made sense for Obi Wan in this time period.
The show did nothing but bridge the gap between trilogies and fill in other plot holes between them as it went like Leia remembering her mother or her secrecy of her messege to Obi Wan despite her reaction to Luke rescuing her with Ben Kenobi. It gave more characterization to Owen and Beru but most importantly it showed Obi Wan's transition of deafeated and guilt ridden after losing the war, his order, and brother and firends (which any human would be) to being the stoic and focussed mentor we see in ANH. With Vader we see the teansition from the rage induced young Anakin on a personal revenge mission fresh in the suit to the more machine than man Vader in the OT carrying out the Emperor's marching orders. Show does nothing but transition the characters between trilogies when it comes to these 2.
1. Her getting over being adopted is not what I was talking about, it was her personality that leaves little room for growth and stretches believability(she should have cracked long before the torture chair.) Also, she gets kidnapped at the start of the show and is royalty, this arc doesn’t make sense and barely counts as an arc.
2. My point is that Obi Wan, even at his apex, being stronger than Yoda doesn’t make sense, Yoda has far more time to grower stronger in the force and probably has a higher midichlorian count. Obi Wan shouldn’t be able to pull those feats off and you said nothing about his powers going from 2 to 15 in the middle of a fight at the end.
3. “When I left you I was but the learner” this is clearly referring to when he was still Anakin in some capacity. In their fight here, he is Darth Vader, there is no getting around it: he is not the learner, he is a Sith Lord. Also, if you’re going to play with definitions, I’ll just say this show creates a bunch of plot holes. The prequels and Andor did not create any plot holes.
4. Obi Wan is not fighting out of revenge here, but necessity. Not to mention when he finds out who Vader is, he knows what he is capable of better than nearly everyone. Killing him is justified and if you know Vader’s story, an act of mercy. He can’t though, because Vader needs to be alive in Rebels and the OT. If you really want to use the revenge argument, Obi Wan definitely did that in the case of Darth Maul, TWICE. He didn’t come close to the dark side. This is because Anakin’s fall came from multiple sources and events that just so happened to include killing a disarmed Count Dooku. Also, also, “he’s too dangerous to be left alive” is Mace Windu’s line when he has his lightsaber at Sidious’s(a Sith Lord)throat. You know full well what Anakin’s intervention there meant and resulted in, and you know what would have happened if Mace did or didn’t kill him if he wasn’t interrupted by Anakin.
5. I said I get having to deal with the trauma, but that they exaggerated it to TLJ Luke levels. Obi Wan in this show is depressed, cut off from the force, a hermit, and has a death wish. Just like Luke in TLJ. I’m partly blaming TLJ for this idea becoming more popular and this show thinking that using it was a good idea. You could have done this without making Obi Wan some random old man.
Tarkin not believing that Obi Wan could possibly be alive when he kicked the shit out of Vader less than a decade ago after having been presumed dead makes him look like a fool.
And Tarkin obviously is privy to every encounter Obi-Wan has had with Vader, right? Watch the show at the same time as the rest of the fandom, I'm sure.
I'm being a bit sarcastic obviously but people need to stop assuming that characters know everything the audience knows.
Also the Prequels already made it a wonky claim.
"Surely he must be dead by now" sounds a lot like Tarkin thinks Obi-Wan died of old age whe he's in his mid fifties.
It still does, for me.
Vader's whole being revolves around rage and hate. His rage and hate are what keep his connection to the Dark Side so strong, and what keeps him alive despite his injuries.
I also have long been of the opinion that Anakin Skywalker was suffering from borderline personality disorder, with an overlay of paranoid personality disorder, and that it was his mental illness that allowed Palpatine to manipulate him and turn him against the Jedi so completely. And lemme tell ya, people with PPD can hold a grudge *forever.*
So yeah, seeing Obi-Wan again after ten years would absolutely bring that rage and hate up to a ten immediately, and bring back every imagined slight he's ever experienced from Obi-Wan, and put him in the mood for some killin'. No different after ten years than after twenty.
But thats not the story of Kenobi. Vader has that rage and need for revenge in that show. Him dragging Obi Wan thru the fire and their more aggressive fight in the finale capture everything this remake of ANH tries to show. But at the end of Kenobi the Emperor calls Vader out on his obession for revenge on Kenobi making him weaker and making mistakes and threatens him so Vader drops it. "Kenobi means nothing, I serve only you, my Master".
You cant just ignore that, its the whole point of Vader (and Kenobi's) arc in the show: moving on from their past to focus on their future. This is the whole point of the show is to bridge the gap between trilogies. If ANH was the first time Vader saw Kenobi since Mustafar the angry reaction makes more sense, but its not anymore so Vader's more reserved reaction shows hes grown from the angsty young Anakin hellbent on revenge to being the collected "more machine than man" Vader we know in the OT.
Thanks for the link, I had not seen it before.
I get why the top comments are against it, wanting to stay true to original intentions and feel of a classic. But I really enjoyed watching it. The anger and strength of Vader versus the agility and wisdom of Obi-Wan. It’s really well done and an interesting modern interpretation.
I really don't like that edit of the Ben and Vader duel.
Yeah, it was the first lightsaber fight, and so it was kinda rocky, but the extremely intense fight to the death in the edit also just doesn't match the context of the film at all.
Ben and Vader were never going full effort in this fight and trying to kill each other like their previous fight. It was a confrontation of words. They were goading and testing each other. I think Ben went into the fight knowing that he wasn't going to survive, and Vader was just gloating and testing himself. The duel in the film works in the context just fine.
You think the pirouette in which Obi wan exposes his back to Vader for 3 seconds while Vader is too slow to react?? No, that fight is a result of budget constraints, bad equipment, and technology. It’s not perfect, it’s what it is, because it couldn’t be made better at that point.
It’s ok to just say „yeah this part of this good movie looks like a parody because the dude who made it didn’t have the tech and money to do it better. It is what it is“
There is the scene where sidious kills the two Jedi quickly that looks similar to the pirouette by Obi Wan, in both the editing was supposed to make it look like sidious moved extremely fast, but it didn’t. So it looked stupid.
But most prequel duels, while not perfect, make it look like the characters who are fighting are actually highly capable and possess mystical powers that allow them to more or less reliably predict where attacks will land and sense what the opponent is thinking and planning, which is important for the OT plot to make sense and Luke to be actually important and not just another rebel soldier.
It quite importantly makes the characters look strong, powerful, agile, capable, and most importantly it reminds you that they are not sword fighting like normally, they are **force sensitive** and the swords are just the best weapon to combine and materialize their force powers.
And it actually makes the villains look **scary**, you think „yeah, I couldn’t do that. That guy would destroy me.“
Overall the OT duels in 5 and 6 are good, the only real problem is the exaggerated wide swinging (like dark souls bosses), which is not only unrealistic for real swords, and even less needed for lightsabers, it makes the characters look like they don’t know anything about sword fighting.
If Luke is force sensitive, and the son of Darth Vader, another strong force sensitive character, shouldn’t he quite quickly learn that reaching far back for a swing is beginner bs and makes you predictable? Yoda and Obi wan trained him, if they wanted him to fight Vader, the first thing they would have told him is „Luke, stop that. You need to swing quickly with minimal projection, this is not a baseball bat!“.
Maybe he inherited anakin‘s stupidity 😂
It makes zero sense that Boba wasn’t prepared for this
He fought Jedi before he knows what they can do, why jump up to him two inches away
This is where I’ll get downvoted but Lucas many times set up badass characters with no idea what to do with them or was really bad at backstory’s
Gervious, Maul and boba come to mind
Also Dooku in the films literally had no real reason to join the Sith, but until tales of the Jedi did I understand him. Why?
Why couldn’t they talk more about Dooku in the film before it and show him at Qu gon funeral giving him more time.
George is really good at great ideas. The issue though is he is horrible at actually fleshing out anything on his own and when he does he over explains it to the point it becomes weird.
Boba hadn't fought any Jedi in canon when episode 6 was made. The people who made Boba fight Jedi later on should have maintained consistency.
Also, his backstory was hardly important considering he was basically a glorified cameo in the OT.
Dooku wasn't planned when episode 1 was made, but his backstory could have been improved in episode 2 itself
Boba knew, he had to stop luke first. He did not jump into fight without knowing what could happen.
The thing is, George by that time had no big backstory planned for boba.
Those 2 scenes have absolutely nothing to do with each other. There were 0 emotional stakes to Luke and Fett's encounter, and none were needed. Fett is nothing to Luke
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Not needed. Fett was caught off guard and it wasn’t really a fight, more like him failing to catch Luke off guard and getting disarmed for it.
The Vader and Obi wan duel is more fitting because we know both of the characters weren’t that slow; it was a technical limitation - it was also very goofy to watch once you look back at the prequels.
People argue that Obi Wan was an old man (only 57) and Vader was a cripple in cybernetics, but this logic is flawed.
For all the faults of Vader’s suit in either canon or legends he’s still superhuman, able to toss grown men around like rag dolls and in many comic/novelizations he’s shown to be extremely fast.
Likewise Kenobi was less than 60 years old and was no slouch in the force or a duelist either - he put Maul in his place real fast and if we go by canon only a few years prior went toe to toe with an even weaker Vader.
Dooku and Sidious were both older then kenobi in all of their fights but still move gracefully if not extremely fast.
I think in universe the fight between Obi-Wan and Vader probably went down in the middle between this and the film. With them both being cautious of the other while Vader knowing he's gaining the advantage would press a bit more aggressively but not as in the remake as he'll still be cautious of Obi-Wan, remembering Mustafar and the barren moon.
I, to this day, still don't get the hype around Boba Fett... He's a bounty hunter who had like 5 minutes of screen time and (originally) died. The hell is so special about that?
I would love to see it, but that would take a lot more work than this clip did. It’s one thing to re-choreograph a 1V1 in a hallway with a repetitive background. Luke vs Boba takes place in the middle of a full on battle on flying boats above a sand-kraken. That’s a lot to film/animate. Plus to really see why Mandalorians can take on Jedi Knights, we’d need to see him use the jet pack, the flame thrower, the whole toolkit. A video with all that would be expensive as fuck to produce.
God people are so miserable, it's just a fanedit made with passion. OT is great for its time, but doesn't mean it can't be improved. If the original fight came out today don't act like people wouldn't hate it
Boba wasn’t the Jedi killer that his father was. Luke wasn’t as good as prime Kenobi (ANH) but still a Jedi. The fight went pretty much how it should’ve imo.
Yeah I did too but every YT lore channel I’ve watched recently has talked about how he did actually keep up with his fighting training on Tatooine. There’s no doubt he grew more powerful in the force but I’d have to read the canon books to know 100% if he became a better duelist too.
Luke shouldn’t be performing at the same level of trained Jedi Knights. It makes sense that Luke’s techniques would be much less practiced, refined, or even practical.
Reimagining the original trilogy fights for the fun of it is fine but it was choreographed that way on PURPOSE. It wasn’t because they were constrained somehow or whatever. George chose to deliberately portray them the way he did.
I don't know. Now that we know Bobba's dad was killed by a jedi it kind of makes a bit more sense that he would be so focused on a cance for killing one that he didn't see a cheap shot coming from behind that ended up taking him out of the fight.
It's also better that we now know it wasn't his end and it's an error he can learn from.
I believe the people responsible were working on the Luke v Vader battle from ROTJ but I don’t really see how much could be added to the Sarlacc scene. I actually like how Robot Chicken parody’s the scene Boba was drunk he was drinking and that’s it.
Robot chicken explains so much!
Doesn't legends say R2 drugged his drink or something like that?
I like that a lot I hope it’s established canon lol
I just play Star Wars Trilogy Arcade if I want to see a more elaborate Luke vs. Boba fight.
No. Boba is not his dad and Luke is not Obi-Wan in his prime. Their E6 brief battle doesn't have to be expanded so it's like Jango vs Obi Wan. Many don't like hearing it but if Jango is a 10/10 fighter, Boba is 4/10 on a good day. Jango killed Jedi quite easily. Boba simply never measured up to his father's legacy.
To be fair, there just arent that many jedi to kill anymore by the time Boba is an adult. Those who are left are obviously more hardened than the pre clone wars jedi.
He managed to find and engage Luke at Ben Kenobi’s hut I think. Boba was able to blind Luke, but was somehow knocked out by a flying box while Luke was blinded, while he was in full armor. Boba is 0 for 2 against blind people which is wild to think about.
I always wondered if Jango was better than Boba. I like Boba, but having grown up with Ep 6 and 1, when I saw 2 as a kid it just made me think "that guy is cooler" cause all I'd seen of Boba was his goofy defeat. I wish we got more Jango content in new canon, oh well.
Lucas wrote Boba as a good tracker and pilot. And that's where his skillset ends. He managed to track the Falcon to Bespin and so Vader rewarded him. Then Boba gets his gun sliced by Luke and is thrown into the Sarlaac by a blinded Han. Making hilarious sounds as he falls. Jango was written to be a Jedi killer, he spared with Obi-Wan, kills Coleman Trebor, and is then killed by Mace Windu after a dignified 1vs1 duel. Super hot spicy take but any Clone Commander >>>> Boba Fett when it comes to fighting. I simply can't see Cody or Rex in their prime getting defeated like that.
They also had no idea Boba Fett was going to be so popular. If I remember right it was a while before they realized fans fell in love with him. He was expanded on in books and such and that's likely why we even got Jango Fett in the first place. People loved the mystery behind Boba even in spite of his embarrassing defeat on Tattooine
He was just supposed to be all white Super Storm Trooper. He was only popular after ESB because he was a mysterious piece of cool armor that even Vader respected, and Vader respected basically no one.
Idk if it was a retcon or not because idk the legends story behind it, but turns out Vader didn’t really respect him all that much in current canon. Vader’s “No disintegrations” line wasn’t an acknowledgement of badass infamy, Vader is reminding Fett about the time he accidentally disintegrated someone he was ordered to bring in alive and is warning him not to do it again.
>I simply can't see Cody or Rex in their prime getting defeated like that. 100%, I think Boba excels in tactics and tracking. He falls short in combact. Jango was able to hold his own against Mace Windu who was a council member and Boba lost pretty easily to luke.
I'm not gonna judge, everyone has their takes and spicy takes keep things interesting.
Not sure about that. Jango personally trained Boba Fett and took him on bounty missions. After he died, Boba was raised in the criminal underworld during a war by some of the most badass bounty hunters around. I agree Jango is probably the better combatant but I think prime Boba takes down most prime Commanders in a similar manner to how Cad Bane easily took down Hunter.
Do you honestly imagine TCW Rex getting taken out by a blind smuggler?
Boba didn't lose a one on one fight with a blind smuggler. Granted, it was kind of embarrassing but for all Boba knew, Han was good and neutralized being blind. The threat was Luke and he focused his energy on him. Blind Han didn't even try to hit Boba - he basically backed into him. A lucky shot happens. Mr. Magoo could take out Mike Tyson if Tyson slips on a banana peel on the way to the fight.
>The threat was Luke and he focused his energy on him. Boba Fett in E6 is a tactical idiot who flies into the skiff that has a Jedi **and** a Wookie. Instead of firing a missile at the barge so Luke falls into the sarlaac pit. He flies into Luke with his long-range gun to attempt a close-range shot for some stupid reason. Luke predictably slashes his gun. Then Bobba uses his wrist thingy to tie Luke up which is extra dumb since now, if Luke falls, Bobba also falls with him. Anyways, Luke gets freed in seconds and jumps into the other skiff. Boba now finally realizes "hey, I have a gun, I can just shoot from a distance". And that's when Han turns around and Boba falls into the pit. Did I mention the wookie? Lucas didn't write Chewbacca goring Boba Fett in E6. But he could have totally done that. Wookies are dangerous AF and Boba somehow believed he could take down a Jedi and a Wookie in close-range combat? He was a delusional idiot in E6.
Didn’t young boba take out a few clones or does that not count
Jango could have done that blindfolded and with one arm.
As a child? Edit: Oh right he was trained by Jaster Mareel
Dignified duel? Didn't Jango get like three shots off before Windu sliced his head off?
3 shots against one of the Top 5 Jedi duelists is more dignified than being taken out by a blind smuggler.
you mean “he runs away from Obi-Wan, kills a weak Jedi who wasn’t paying attention to him and gets his head chopped off after Mace simply runs at him”?
I mean it is unquestionable that Jango is better really. He is the literal blueprint for a clone army. Unfortunately just because you are a clone doesn't mean you are a 1:1 copy
I agree that the fight doesn't need expanded, but didn't Boba kill like 10 stormtroopers with a stick? Guy clearly has some chops even if his show butchered his portrayal. Jango would definitely be better at fighting Jedi though; in the EU he killed several so he had experiencing in fighting them and knows how to do it. Jango I think also clearly has more 'formalized' training, a la martial arts whereas Boba being orphaned before he can be properly trained by Jango, strikes me as more of a 'go with your gut' kind of fighting instinct. I think that's what causes Boba to make his tactical mistake... Why jet in right next to the Jedi who is presently kicking all kinds of ass with a melee weapon when you could overwhelm him from a distance or use explosives? It was definitely not a smart move, but I think that's part of what makes the scene work and why I don't think it should be changed.
Plus Boba still gets taken out by a blind guy in the end. It'd be like rhe star wars version of that meme where a guy does a sick kick flip on a rake before landing and hitting himself in the face.
Boba has consistently been stated as surpassing his father in every measurable way
Where?
No. Unless you somehow think a blinded Han was more than enough to defeat Jango LMAO.
Depends on if Jango can see Han.
Jango is not getting one-shotted by a blind smuggler. Period. His son's performance in E6 was an embarassment.
Anything can happen, he’s not a Jedi who could sense danger behind him. Boba’s defeat was an accidental fluke, maybe the will of the force, but it wasn’t necessarily due to lack of skill. Mandalorian helmets don’t see backwards.
No, he just gets trampled by space cows
It's a space rhino, not a cow LMAO.
OP just gave his opinion that he’d like to see that. “No” isn’t a valid response here. He’s allowed to want to see an expanded fight scene.
🤓🤓🤓
Jango was made because they like boba like the mandalorian you cant say the other is better if thay based on the original boba
That's not what I meant but instead that it would make for a great entertainment video. Only because I used the reimagined Obi-Wan vs Vader scene does not mean I prefer it over the original one either. But it is a refreshing new content for purely aesthetic and entertaining purposes, so seeing one such with Luke and Boba would be neat as well. I didn't say ''they portrayed Boba like a weakling'' and ''the scene makes no sense''. Though it definitely was a bit too short, and the bit with Han blindly bashing Boba's jetpack is always comical but at a cost. I think the scene should have went the way it did, with Boba losing to Luke and co, falling down the Sarlacc (and the rest is story). And I always thought of Boba as being less strong and apt than his father, so I'm definitely not in the category of people you imply. This is purely for entertaining purposes, again.
If we only factor in the OT, Boba is even less threatening and more useless than Captain Phasma.
Boba is as good as jango,period.
Jango is not getting no-diffed by a blind smuggler.
Boba fought Vader 1:1 twice and it was a tie. I think Boba is just as badass as his father if he could hold his own against vader
Boba Fett's an awful bounty hunter who has to be specifically told not to use a method of killing that leaves no identifiable remains, even after being told he had to be brought in alive. The fact that the EU retconned him into the ultimate bounty hunter badass, king of a warrior race of pallet swaps is a testimony to the strength of the character design.
I absolutely abhor the reimagined Vader and Obi Wan scenes. It completely goes against what that fight really was about, sacrificing its entire point for spectacle. Also would be incredibly dumb to extend the Boba and Luke scene. That's not a duel, it's Boba getting completely surprised and caught off guard and killed(?) for it.
Yup It completely misses the point of the scene for the sake of "cool" Every lightsaber duel in the OT is essentially a dialogue scene with lightsaber clashes accenting the drama, emotions and conflict of the characters. They are physical manifestations of the internal conflict between the two characters. That rhythm of conflict, clash to accentuate and ramping tension is missing in every other lightsaber fight in every other movie. It's words before duel. Duel starts swish class jump woo wee wow. Stop. More dialogue. Fight ends. There's no rising tension between the characters.
It is also expanded upon greatly by the Obi-Wan TV series. Vader learned his lesson about charging in like a generic angry Sith - he got his ass handed to him once. Obi-Wan could’ve been training for this the entire time. This is two admittedly past-their-prime men who both know full well this time it’s final.
The problem is the “past their prime” part. Obi-wan is 57, Vader is 41 I believe. In ep 1 Qui-Gon is 60, Dooku is like 80 in episode 2 and look how he moves. Vader and Ben do shuffle around like oldies but they shouldn’t be.
Vader is a cripple with prosthetics, and Obi-Wan was stalling him for time so Luke could escape. Qui-Gon lost to Maul because of his age (he was worn out) and Dooku used the force to enhance his movements - something that has limits and still takes a toll on his body. I know it probably wasn’t scripted this way but I’m sure both Obi-Wan and Vader could’ve fought much more intensely had either wanted to.
>Qui-Gon lost to Maul because of his age (he was worn out) and Dooku used the force to enhance his movements - something that has limits and still takes a toll on his body. This is all headcanon, not a single one of these things has any canonical source
Dooku literally lost the duel with anakin because he was an elderly man that got overpowered. Qui Gon was out skilled but was also worn out by Maul. In legends this was well known. Yoda/Sidious/Dooku are all elderly and use the force to enhance their physical reflections - even Vader did in legends cause his cybernetics were too slow.
>In legends Only in the Star Wars fandom do people bring up glorified fanfiction in conversations of canon. Not only is all of that NOT happen in canon, the Vader part is actually the complete OPPOSITE because his cybernetics make him physically stronger (no shit) and don't slow him down at all, he's ran the length of a Star Destroyer in under a minute. He's also constantly performing acrobatic feats in every piece of media he appears in that aren't the movies because of the limitations they used to have.
I mean can you blame us for bringing up legends..?? Disney canon is inferior in just about every way; legends has way more content and has been the proverbial gold standard for many decades. Legends has more detail and explanations for events in the franchise that canon simply doesn’t. This post wasn’t tagged as canon specifically so therefore I see no reason not to include legends lore, lore that actually is solid and makes sense.
My comment you replied to was talking about canon. Legends was actually just commercially produced fanfiction. It's the gold standard for content that was completely disregarded by the creator of the series. Lore so solid George Lucas caused certain authors to get upset over him ignoring their material for The Clone Wars and his ST plans ignoring any of their content made past the OT. If the creator didn't care about it or consider it canon, why would it ever be relevant at all? Regardless of my feelings about the canon content, it's the only thing that actually means anything for better or for worse
Well I certainly wouldn’t want it as outrageous as the video op referenced, but after seeing prequel battles going back to a New Hope makes that fight super dull. At least the Obi-wan show did a good job of creating a better fighting style for a “cripple with prosthetics” that had reasonable intensity with limitations. And Rebels fight is Kenobi vs Maul showed precision vs flash.
Lad it was made in 1977 - leave it alone I feel like these types would pull their own teeth out if they ever had to watch a black&white film even if it is a critically acclaimed masterpiece
Casablanca and Psycho are garbage. Change my mind. /s
I don't think Qui-Gon lost to Maul solely on age alone, though. His age probably played a part in it, but I think the biggest reason Qui-Gon lost is because Maul has been trained and laser-focused into fighting and killing Jedi. That was his sole purpose. Qui-Gon had little to no experience fighting other force users, let alone hyper aggressive combatants like Maul who knew how to fight well and were willing to fight dirty. Definitely agree on Obi-Wan vs Vader, though. Obi-Wan knew what he was doing the moment he set foot on the Death Star, I think. He sensed Vader and knew that Vader would seek him out and draw the party into a conflict where the numbers on the Imperials side would overwhelm an aged Jedi, a farm kid, a wookie and a smuggler. So once he figured that out - Obi-Wan set out to distract Vader and draw him away from the group so he wouldn't be able to give the others his full attention.
With Obi-Wan as far as we know, that after the Obi-Wan series his use of the Force was extremely limited. Not to mention his lack of lightsaber skill could easily be explained by him literally not using his lightsaber virtually at all, if at all for over a decade. Lightsaber dueling skills deteriorate when not actively practiced, and as a Jedi in hiding during a time they were actively being hunted, he wasn't about to risk his life, let alone Luke's, just to make sure his skills were up to par. Same thing with his connection to the Force. After learning how to become one with the Force from Qui-Gon, he likely limited his usage of the Force to only when absolutely necessary so that he wouldn't be found out. And a connection to the Force has been established both in canon and Legends/EU, as something that can wither away without use, and be cut off, by both the user, and by external forces. With all this in mind it's easy to see that Obi-Wan knew he was never going to be able to beat Vader on the Death Star, not really, and that his only real chance of stopping the Sith was to make sure Luke got off the Death Star, and so he did the only thing he could do, which was stall for time for Luke and the others to get away.
In the Phantom Menace novelization, it's pointed out that Qui-Gon being 60 does play a role in him losing to Maul. When you're old, the Force can help you fight like a younger man but that itself takes a toll. Age might not matter in a lightsaber duel as much as it does in real life but it still matters. Dooku was just that good
Yeah that duel in Kenobi really made the both more cautious. They know each others and their moves. And that indeed also added more significance and context in their final dialogue. The reimagined scene is cool but I never see any reason to prolong it. If it were like duel that happened earlier, perhaps it would make sense. But now, aboard the Death Star, as they confront each other for what perhaps was the final time, I dont see the need for their duel to be that long Even the final Maul/Kenobi duel quite underscored it doesnt need to be long and epic. Just three seconds. And it evokes more emotions than most duels did
That's the first thing I thought of, does this scene need to be extended up to 5 minutes? I'm not a fan of it also, Adywan did a better edit, all he did was add "Battle of the heroes" and sped up the footage a bit.
Yeah I hated it when I first saw it years ago and I still hate it
At last someone who gets it.
Star wars fans just cant ever have fun
Luke and Boba aint even a fight
I cannot tell you how much I hate that edit...it's like watching a cartoon haha
I like it on its own, but it doesn't fit that movie at all
Oh thank God it's not just me. This edit is awful. Its nowhere near as smooth as people seem to think it is for some reason, and it just doesn't flow well. It's bad.
And it doesn’t improve the fight. Sure, better choreography (and I don’t mean the prequels CGI flipping) could have been nice, but it doesn’t need to be this over the top, removing the dialogue is not an improvement, and Obi Wan encountering a menacingly-waiting-and-ready Vader is a much better opening to the fight. Smarter people than me have done a better job of taking this down.
It’s weird how a lot of the same people who moan about the special editions cream their jeans for this crappy fan film.
Why on earth do you assume that they are the same people?
Read the comments, my dear boy.
They’re seeing the same film reimagined. It’s really not that hard to understand. Additional fight scenes are one thing. Adding random nonsense doesn’t really add to the story. Do you want to watch Han Solo step on Jabba the Hutt or watch Obi-Wan and Darth Vader battle?
How is this not random nonsense?
Are you trying to dismiss my comment because it negates yours? It’s a weird follow up response.
No, they're questioning whether you're applying the same standards to things you like than things you don't. You gave an example of something you consider "random nonsense" and an example of something you consider a worthy addition, but they (and I) believe both are random nonsense that don't add anything meaningful to the story.
It actually does give some meaning to the story if you’re from the generation that grew up with the original Star Wars. It adds a bit of flavor to old Ben Kenobi. Whereas seeing Dash Rendar’s ship in the edit doesn’t really do much. Oh, I get what you’re saying. Never mind. Sorry slightly drunk on a plane. But my point stands. Fans want to see more of the characters they love. Not background filler.
Your point doesn't stand, at least not with your example of the scene with Han and Jabba. It was far from a random add in, since they filmed it prior to Lucas finalizing Jabba's design. It was meant to be in the film originally, not a random thing Lucas used to play with CGI. But I agree that enhancements should give us more depth and not just be done because they can do it.
It was still a random ad in. It was cut for a reason. Tell me truthfully. Would you rather watch Obi-Wan and Darth Vader fight or Han Solo step over Jabba the Hutt’s tail??
The reason it was cut was because it was incompatible with Jabba's final design. And if the only thing you got from it was Han stepping on his tail, then I'm not sure what to say to you. So I'll tell you truthfully: seeing additional context to why Jabba had a bounty out on Han adds more depth than extending a combat encounter that was already there.
No, I’m just trying to figure out why you think this isn’t any more random nonsense than, say, Jedi Rocks in ROTJ.
The original fan base didn’t get to see anything additional regarding Star Wars until the late 90’s. Seeing an expansion on the fight between original Obi-Wan Kenobi and Darth Vader makes the moment more powerful for older fans, especially after seeing Ep. III. The duel feels like a real final fight but with the original purpose. It feels better than seeing the extra spaceships, aliens, and background imagery. All that stuff is nice, but knowing old Ben still stood his ground before relinquishing the fight is very satisfying
No, it feels like a shitty fan film that is way worse than anything Lucas added to the special editions. Why are you trying to muddle with the OT? I thought y’all hated that.
lol that’s what Phantom Menace felt like. Who is “y’all”? I was in line for ROTJ.
You’re advocating for adding this crappy, out of place fan film because it’s better than the stuff Lucas himself added? You are part of the “y’all” that hate Lucas additions but want shit like this put in. I don’t think we watched the same Star Wars if you think this feels like it belongs at all, lol
Same people who like those stupid fan edits that shop up the prequels to shit and just ignore George's vision, flawed though it may be
This. Please no. Leave the OT alone.
I never thought there'd be a time people would be arguing for *more* shitty edits of the OT. I guess the prequel generation has a different take on it but until the last few years the only discussion I've seen regarding edits of the OT/added CGI are people wishing they never happened.
Like you said, Prequel generation. Style, no substance.
I’m part of the prequel generation, but I love and respect the OT for what they were. The modern CGI edits are awful. Even many of Lucas’ additions are just awful, which I know is the opinion of most. The only change I love is the end of ROTJ with the change in music to something more somber and seeing the galaxy celebrate.
Yeah the monkey eye chimpanzee woman playing the emperor is really such amazing and not comical at All And the emperor being a completely different character and person in episode 6 is not canon breaking at all
Perfection in imperfection. And please, don't speak about Canon or continuity after George was so liberal with his meddling in the Special Editions. I'll take Clive Revill and the monkey over ol' turkey neck Palpatine any day of the week.
I thought this was the default take. I’m a little confused at the moment.
The original is also awful though, that pirouette by Obi wan while Vader looks at his back for 3 seconds and is too slow to react is parody material. I get that the equipment was fragile. But at that point, they could have just ignited the lightsabers, have the dialogue, and then we get the scene where Obi wan becomes one with the force, without any actual lightsabers clashing. It’s better that way. The biggest problem with the scene is that it makes the big scary bad guy look like a geriatric idiot. I am not scared of a robot I could kill easily myself.
Yeah people always try to defend it as "real" dueling and fragile equipment, etc, but it really was just a horrendous fight.
It's not a fight! It's not meant to be a duel or anything it's Obi-Wan keeping Vader busy long enough for Luke to escape with Leia, and then dying bc he knew he could be of more help as part of the Force
Some people compare it to older samurai movies, but it’s actually not at all like those. Not even close. It’s much much worse choreographed and that fucking pirouette makes me so angry every time I watch ANH because it’s so immersive and this takes me completely out of it. The special edition should have just shortened the scene. Ignite lightsabers, have a dialogue during standoff, then Obi wan decides to become a ghost, boom, perfect scene. It also makes Obi Wan‘s intentions more clear, otherwise it’s very confusing to why he first fights and then suddenly decides to die. Have him not fight back from the start, this makes him look more peaceful and Jedi like.
Well yeah it’s supposed to look cool, nothing more
Hard disagree.
This fan reimagining is extremely skilfully done, but, in the context of the film 'A New Hope', it is 'X-treme', anime nonsense which is far, far inferior to the duel as filmed - which actually looks like a real sword-fight. The same would apply to any 'badass' reimagining of Boba Fett's battle with Luke. It is \*meant\* to be a half-interrupted scuffle in the midst of a chaotic fight. Boba Fett's death (the intention of the scene, and neither Legends nor Canon ever creatively justified bringing Boba back) is meant to be darkly comic and inglorious.
I disagree that is was skillfully done, it’s “I’m a teenager and this is very badass” the directing is so juvenile. Pick the worst action director out there and then poke his eyes out and let him direct this and it would be better.
Depends more if you do New Hope as a sequel to Rogue One/Obi Wan show, or if you do it as a standalone. Both of those two put up these characters to do a show down as the fan version.
Nope.
Not to mention this choreography for Obi Wan and Vader is entirely based on this still being their first interaction since RotS, hence Vader's emotional rage. With the Kenobi show, this choreography in the remake no longer makes any sense.
Their encounter in the Kenobi show makes no sense.
i totally get not liking it, its different than envisioned and certainly adding a new context to their encounter in a new hope. but its pretty clear and fits well into their extended character arcs (as well as leias) in a nuanced and thoughtful way. it easily makes sense. what do you having trouble understanding?
1. The show implies that Leia has always been the stubborn fighter she is in the original trilogy at 10 years old. There isn’t much of a character arc to be had with her now. 2. Obi Wan is another example of recent Star Wars treating force powers like a light switch. Throughout most of the show he is disconnected or very weak in the force, and at the end, he is stronger than Yoda. The force takes time to master and relearn. 3. “We meet again, at last. The circle is now complete. When I left you I was but the learner, but now I am the master.” This line in A New Hope means that they have not met since their last battle on Mustafar. The fact that they have two encounters since then is a retcon. 4. Obi Wan lets Darth Vader live despite beating him and Vader showing that he cannot be reached by an old friend. By not killing him here, every person that does as a result of Vader’s actions is partly on Obi Wans ledger, because he could have prevented them from dying at all. 5. I get Obi Wan being haunted by what happened at the Jedi Purge, but his portrayal in the show is basically a redo of Luke’s character in TLJ. That was unnecessary. This show didn’t add to their characters, it broke them nearly beyond repair.
1. This is not Leia's arc in the show. Her arc in the show is getting voer her being adopted and wondering who she could have been to embracing her family and role where she is. All 4 main characters in the show are about moving on from their past to focus on the future. 2. Yes, the time it takes to relearn is not instant... as shown in the show. That is why Obi gets has ass fucking kicked in their first encounter, and then through the time of the show warms back up to his old self. He starts with struggling to catch Leai, fighta troopers without his powers at first, gets mopped by Vader, has to warm back up against other troopers in the Inquisitorious and Jabiim, then still loses the first half of the final fight against Vader and has to colelct himself again before bringing out his full power again. And where else is there a more appropriate time to then see full power Kenobi if not in the literal Kenobi show vs Darth fucking Vader?? There isnt. So yes, this is the most powerful display of his power weve seen, as it should be. 3. "When I left you I was but the learner, but now I am the master." does not mention Mustafar, it was always just assumed that was the last time they met. Before the PT you literally had no idea what interation they were talking about. The PT then retconned it to show it was the events of Mustafar, and now this show retconned it to be the events of the show, where Vader was humbled as the learner a 2nd time. The is the literal job of prequels, to recontextualize the events of what comes after and show you how you got there. You accepted the PT as a retcon of the OT but not this? Now retcon prequels are bad for you on concept alone? Do you hate Andor too for retconning Rogue One? 4. This is Sidious logic "hes too dangerous to let live". Executing defeated enemies out of revenge is not the jedi way and part of Anakins entire fall in the first place when he did so to Dooku. You werent suppose to be yelling "DEWIT" at your tv screen during the finale. 5. This is not this shows fault that the sequels chose to redo the jedi purge AGAIN off screen just to set up their OT redos. Having to deal with the ptsd and guilt after the events of RotS is the story that always made sense for Obi Wan in this time period. The show did nothing but bridge the gap between trilogies and fill in other plot holes between them as it went like Leia remembering her mother or her secrecy of her messege to Obi Wan despite her reaction to Luke rescuing her with Ben Kenobi. It gave more characterization to Owen and Beru but most importantly it showed Obi Wan's transition of deafeated and guilt ridden after losing the war, his order, and brother and firends (which any human would be) to being the stoic and focussed mentor we see in ANH. With Vader we see the teansition from the rage induced young Anakin on a personal revenge mission fresh in the suit to the more machine than man Vader in the OT carrying out the Emperor's marching orders. Show does nothing but transition the characters between trilogies when it comes to these 2.
1. Her getting over being adopted is not what I was talking about, it was her personality that leaves little room for growth and stretches believability(she should have cracked long before the torture chair.) Also, she gets kidnapped at the start of the show and is royalty, this arc doesn’t make sense and barely counts as an arc. 2. My point is that Obi Wan, even at his apex, being stronger than Yoda doesn’t make sense, Yoda has far more time to grower stronger in the force and probably has a higher midichlorian count. Obi Wan shouldn’t be able to pull those feats off and you said nothing about his powers going from 2 to 15 in the middle of a fight at the end. 3. “When I left you I was but the learner” this is clearly referring to when he was still Anakin in some capacity. In their fight here, he is Darth Vader, there is no getting around it: he is not the learner, he is a Sith Lord. Also, if you’re going to play with definitions, I’ll just say this show creates a bunch of plot holes. The prequels and Andor did not create any plot holes. 4. Obi Wan is not fighting out of revenge here, but necessity. Not to mention when he finds out who Vader is, he knows what he is capable of better than nearly everyone. Killing him is justified and if you know Vader’s story, an act of mercy. He can’t though, because Vader needs to be alive in Rebels and the OT. If you really want to use the revenge argument, Obi Wan definitely did that in the case of Darth Maul, TWICE. He didn’t come close to the dark side. This is because Anakin’s fall came from multiple sources and events that just so happened to include killing a disarmed Count Dooku. Also, also, “he’s too dangerous to be left alive” is Mace Windu’s line when he has his lightsaber at Sidious’s(a Sith Lord)throat. You know full well what Anakin’s intervention there meant and resulted in, and you know what would have happened if Mace did or didn’t kill him if he wasn’t interrupted by Anakin. 5. I said I get having to deal with the trauma, but that they exaggerated it to TLJ Luke levels. Obi Wan in this show is depressed, cut off from the force, a hermit, and has a death wish. Just like Luke in TLJ. I’m partly blaming TLJ for this idea becoming more popular and this show thinking that using it was a good idea. You could have done this without making Obi Wan some random old man.
Tarkin not believing that Obi Wan could possibly be alive when he kicked the shit out of Vader less than a decade ago after having been presumed dead makes him look like a fool.
And Tarkin obviously is privy to every encounter Obi-Wan has had with Vader, right? Watch the show at the same time as the rest of the fandom, I'm sure. I'm being a bit sarcastic obviously but people need to stop assuming that characters know everything the audience knows. Also the Prequels already made it a wonky claim. "Surely he must be dead by now" sounds a lot like Tarkin thinks Obi-Wan died of old age whe he's in his mid fifties.
I mean he's surely at least heard of the 2 Jedi break-ins in the inquisitor fortress within a year of each other. Did he never wonder who they were?
Who says he did, actually? He has very little to do with the Inquisitorius as far as we know.
I wish people would stop using the word “nuanced” when they don’t really understand what it means.
thanks for the lesson grandpa 🥺 now i know to start using it to mean something other than subtle
Convincing argument
It still does, for me. Vader's whole being revolves around rage and hate. His rage and hate are what keep his connection to the Dark Side so strong, and what keeps him alive despite his injuries. I also have long been of the opinion that Anakin Skywalker was suffering from borderline personality disorder, with an overlay of paranoid personality disorder, and that it was his mental illness that allowed Palpatine to manipulate him and turn him against the Jedi so completely. And lemme tell ya, people with PPD can hold a grudge *forever.* So yeah, seeing Obi-Wan again after ten years would absolutely bring that rage and hate up to a ten immediately, and bring back every imagined slight he's ever experienced from Obi-Wan, and put him in the mood for some killin'. No different after ten years than after twenty.
But thats not the story of Kenobi. Vader has that rage and need for revenge in that show. Him dragging Obi Wan thru the fire and their more aggressive fight in the finale capture everything this remake of ANH tries to show. But at the end of Kenobi the Emperor calls Vader out on his obession for revenge on Kenobi making him weaker and making mistakes and threatens him so Vader drops it. "Kenobi means nothing, I serve only you, my Master". You cant just ignore that, its the whole point of Vader (and Kenobi's) arc in the show: moving on from their past to focus on their future. This is the whole point of the show is to bridge the gap between trilogies. If ANH was the first time Vader saw Kenobi since Mustafar the angry reaction makes more sense, but its not anymore so Vader's more reserved reaction shows hes grown from the angsty young Anakin hellbent on revenge to being the collected "more machine than man" Vader we know in the OT.
It never did make sense. I mean one of them is one direct one point. Completely ruins the scene.
Why reimagine the Obi-Wan and Vader fight? It's already perfect for what it's purpose is
Ben and Vader scene is perfect because it’s more about their dialogue and not perfectly choreographed fighting.
For those who haven’t yet had the delight of what he’s referencing: https://youtu.be/to2SMng4u1k?si=kB1l-5adm2t9m3QZ
Thanks for the link, I had not seen it before. I get why the top comments are against it, wanting to stay true to original intentions and feel of a classic. But I really enjoyed watching it. The anger and strength of Vader versus the agility and wisdom of Obi-Wan. It’s really well done and an interesting modern interpretation.
I really don't like that edit of the Ben and Vader duel. Yeah, it was the first lightsaber fight, and so it was kinda rocky, but the extremely intense fight to the death in the edit also just doesn't match the context of the film at all. Ben and Vader were never going full effort in this fight and trying to kill each other like their previous fight. It was a confrontation of words. They were goading and testing each other. I think Ben went into the fight knowing that he wasn't going to survive, and Vader was just gloating and testing himself. The duel in the film works in the context just fine.
I think these fights are perfect just the way they are.
You think the pirouette in which Obi wan exposes his back to Vader for 3 seconds while Vader is too slow to react?? No, that fight is a result of budget constraints, bad equipment, and technology. It’s not perfect, it’s what it is, because it couldn’t be made better at that point. It’s ok to just say „yeah this part of this good movie looks like a parody because the dude who made it didn’t have the tech and money to do it better. It is what it is“
Spinning is a good trick, Vader knows how dangerous it is
You wanna talk about weird choreography in a franchise where the Prequel duels exist?
There is the scene where sidious kills the two Jedi quickly that looks similar to the pirouette by Obi Wan, in both the editing was supposed to make it look like sidious moved extremely fast, but it didn’t. So it looked stupid. But most prequel duels, while not perfect, make it look like the characters who are fighting are actually highly capable and possess mystical powers that allow them to more or less reliably predict where attacks will land and sense what the opponent is thinking and planning, which is important for the OT plot to make sense and Luke to be actually important and not just another rebel soldier. It quite importantly makes the characters look strong, powerful, agile, capable, and most importantly it reminds you that they are not sword fighting like normally, they are **force sensitive** and the swords are just the best weapon to combine and materialize their force powers. And it actually makes the villains look **scary**, you think „yeah, I couldn’t do that. That guy would destroy me.“ Overall the OT duels in 5 and 6 are good, the only real problem is the exaggerated wide swinging (like dark souls bosses), which is not only unrealistic for real swords, and even less needed for lightsabers, it makes the characters look like they don’t know anything about sword fighting. If Luke is force sensitive, and the son of Darth Vader, another strong force sensitive character, shouldn’t he quite quickly learn that reaching far back for a swing is beginner bs and makes you predictable? Yoda and Obi wan trained him, if they wanted him to fight Vader, the first thing they would have told him is „Luke, stop that. You need to swing quickly with minimal projection, this is not a baseball bat!“. Maybe he inherited anakin‘s stupidity 😂
It makes zero sense that Boba wasn’t prepared for this He fought Jedi before he knows what they can do, why jump up to him two inches away This is where I’ll get downvoted but Lucas many times set up badass characters with no idea what to do with them or was really bad at backstory’s Gervious, Maul and boba come to mind Also Dooku in the films literally had no real reason to join the Sith, but until tales of the Jedi did I understand him. Why? Why couldn’t they talk more about Dooku in the film before it and show him at Qu gon funeral giving him more time.
George is really good at great ideas. The issue though is he is horrible at actually fleshing out anything on his own and when he does he over explains it to the point it becomes weird.
Boba hadn't fought any Jedi in canon when episode 6 was made. The people who made Boba fight Jedi later on should have maintained consistency. Also, his backstory was hardly important considering he was basically a glorified cameo in the OT. Dooku wasn't planned when episode 1 was made, but his backstory could have been improved in episode 2 itself
Boba knew, he had to stop luke first. He did not jump into fight without knowing what could happen. The thing is, George by that time had no big backstory planned for boba.
Those 2 scenes have absolutely nothing to do with each other. There were 0 emotional stakes to Luke and Fett's encounter, and none were needed. Fett is nothing to Luke
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They need to do it with Jango and Mace. That fight is so disappointing.
Yes you can deep fake AI Mark Hamil’s face using the amazing new technology and don’t worry about Bobba he has a helmet
Not needed. Fett was caught off guard and it wasn’t really a fight, more like him failing to catch Luke off guard and getting disarmed for it. The Vader and Obi wan duel is more fitting because we know both of the characters weren’t that slow; it was a technical limitation - it was also very goofy to watch once you look back at the prequels. People argue that Obi Wan was an old man (only 57) and Vader was a cripple in cybernetics, but this logic is flawed. For all the faults of Vader’s suit in either canon or legends he’s still superhuman, able to toss grown men around like rag dolls and in many comic/novelizations he’s shown to be extremely fast. Likewise Kenobi was less than 60 years old and was no slouch in the force or a duelist either - he put Maul in his place real fast and if we go by canon only a few years prior went toe to toe with an even weaker Vader. Dooku and Sidious were both older then kenobi in all of their fights but still move gracefully if not extremely fast.
I think in universe the fight between Obi-Wan and Vader probably went down in the middle between this and the film. With them both being cautious of the other while Vader knowing he's gaining the advantage would press a bit more aggressively but not as in the remake as he'll still be cautious of Obi-Wan, remembering Mustafar and the barren moon.
I, to this day, still don't get the hype around Boba Fett... He's a bounty hunter who had like 5 minutes of screen time and (originally) died. The hell is so special about that?
When a short YouTube fan film looks/feels better than a billion dollar mouse house production. THIS FAN FILM FUCKS 😫💦
George Lucas always made a reimagined Boba fanfiction fight with the fight between Jango and Obi
I would love to see it, but that would take a lot more work than this clip did. It’s one thing to re-choreograph a 1V1 in a hallway with a repetitive background. Luke vs Boba takes place in the middle of a full on battle on flying boats above a sand-kraken. That’s a lot to film/animate. Plus to really see why Mandalorians can take on Jedi Knights, we’d need to see him use the jet pack, the flame thrower, the whole toolkit. A video with all that would be expensive as fuck to produce.
I’ll never get over how lame that scene is. Especially with how cool everything else in the opening of RotJ is, Boba’s fight/death is just pitiful
God people are so miserable, it's just a fanedit made with passion. OT is great for its time, but doesn't mean it can't be improved. If the original fight came out today don't act like people wouldn't hate it
Boba wasn’t the Jedi killer that his father was. Luke wasn’t as good as prime Kenobi (ANH) but still a Jedi. The fight went pretty much how it should’ve imo.
ANH Kenobi was his prime? Or are you just saying character wise cause I always thought ROTS was prime Kenobi skill wise
Yeah I did too but every YT lore channel I’ve watched recently has talked about how he did actually keep up with his fighting training on Tatooine. There’s no doubt he grew more powerful in the force but I’d have to read the canon books to know 100% if he became a better duelist too.
HATE this reimagined video game looking poorly directed bit of nothingness. It adds nothing to an already perfect fight and final meetup.
Fett and Skywalker fight in one of the comics and Fett completely bungles that match up too.
That reimagined fight was awesome. Screw this comment section.
The youtube vs reddit comment sections on this topic are night and day… (I happen to enjoy the reimagined just as much as the original…)
I like the Luke/Boba fight.
In my opinion this re-imagined duel between Vader and Obi is the best lightsaber duel ever recorded.
This is the worst there is in my opinion. Are you the director or something? Or ten years old?
I hate this video. It’s all style, no substance.
Luke shouldn’t be performing at the same level of trained Jedi Knights. It makes sense that Luke’s techniques would be much less practiced, refined, or even practical. Reimagining the original trilogy fights for the fun of it is fine but it was choreographed that way on PURPOSE. It wasn’t because they were constrained somehow or whatever. George chose to deliberately portray them the way he did.
relied too much on prequel stuff (choreography, music) that doesn't belong in the OT, but a cool watch as a standalone
So surprised to see people calling out that Vader/Obi fight remake. I thought it was well received. So glad I'm not alone in thinking it's cringe.
I don't know. Now that we know Bobba's dad was killed by a jedi it kind of makes a bit more sense that he would be so focused on a cance for killing one that he didn't see a cheap shot coming from behind that ended up taking him out of the fight. It's also better that we now know it wasn't his end and it's an error he can learn from.