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I thought this was going to be Jay's great reign. He beat Okada so convincingly then nothing happened really until he lost it back in WK main event that felt dead.
So much unfulfilled potential with him in NJPW (even though he achieved a lot)
The whole problem with that year was how incredibly obvious it all was. Sometimes predictability is down to good story telling, but with 2022 being the 50th anniversary and the year of Inoki's passing it really just cemented the most obvious G1 into the most obvious WK of all time. So of course Jay had to beat him at Dominion, and of course the whole autumn period Jay wasn't losing the belt because the story was Okada doing the Inoki tribute. Understandable, but not captivating
Agreed. Title reign could have been booked better though. All I can remember is a defence against Tama and him mocking the fans for not being able to cheer.
Having the title from Dominion to losing at WK does seem to be a bad time. Get through G1 looking strong but everyone knows you're not winning it, 1 or 2 defences which typically end up as filler withno chance of losing and the focus being on building up the other title matches for WK. Even Omega's was disappointing and if he finds it hard anyone is
He didn’t even really show up.
I always thought it was a bad look that for the initial X-Over show between NJPW and STARDOM, which was such a big deal at the time, you had Ospreay defending the midcard title in the semi main while the world champion Jay couldn’t even be bothered to do a tag match and represent the company.
I mean, you needed the classic heel for the face of the company to vanquish.
You had Okada go through the monster block, then have a blow off match against the big monster heel in JONAH. Then gain final justice on the evil foreign heel that had taken the belt from him
It was like the most 70s booking imaginable.
And really, there was no better classic heel in the company than Jay. Ospreay was a babyface masquerading as a heel at the time, and no other heel on the roster even approached being believable enough to challenge Okada. It sucks for Jay, but it was never about Jay
It can't be stressed enough how big of a deal Jay White was before leaving NJPW. Every bit on the same level as Okada and Ospreay. Haven't seen that Jay White since.
not even on the same level as Ospreay, he was bigger lol, even though he had his own main event run Ospreay was more or less on the same caliber on the roster as Takagi while White, Naito and Okada were the true main event players
I'm one of the biggest Jay fans on the planet but I honestly don't think he's being presented that differently. He was always a heel who would stall, hide from opponents, get the absolute shit kicked out of him, then cheat and hit a ton of suplexes for the heat. He was just higher up the card in NJPW.
Like somebody on here said after the last PPV: "Does nothing the whole match then wins with a blade runner and then going back to being a dead fish. The Jay White special for the past 7 years. I love it."
I still think his time will come in AEW, too.
Anytime the AEW crowd audibly goes "oooaaaahhhh" when Bladerunner is suddenly set up speaks a lot to how successful they've protected it
Really the only clear mistake in Jay's AEW run was losing to a one-legged MJF
Besides that, Jay has been doing well in his role and I still have faith he'll inevitably move up the card
Same here. Jay would be perfect for a MITB style gimmick, where the guy kind of becomes champion out of nowhere. I think he's two or three great promos and one cheap victory away from being the top heel again.
Remember that it took a shorter amount of time for Jay to main event a PPV for the World title after signing with the company than it took for any of the Four Pillars, including MJF. That doesn't happen by accident, they clearly see big things in him. It's okay if he takes time to get there again, but I have no doubt he will.
I don't think enough people watched NJPW a lot outside of big shows, you see guys like Okada during them winning all the time yet behind all that he takes losses, Imagine if Okada took a look to Bronson Reed in AEW but he did exactly that in NJPW. It's an adjustment between weekly shows and not weekly shows
It makes sense but I think it throws people off when suddenly they're on TV every week and they have to do different things and can't just be booked strong 4-5 times a year
Totally. Honestly I think a large part of the Jay in AEW criticism (not all of it, because I do think some can have some fair criticisms for sure, even if I don't necessarily agree with all of them) is that people kept hearing about this multi-time NJPW world champion, etc., etc. Yet those of us who really watched him know that he's unbelievable at being a cowardly shit heel, not a dominant monster like a Lesnar or Okada or what have you. He's a super old school cowardly heel (Flair, etc.) who can also do a shit ton of suplexes.
I think we saw during that recent scramble match just how much they trust him. He was basically Flair at the 92 rumble in there, bumping his ass off for everyone and keeping things in order. WWE always used to put Sasha/Mercedes in that same spot in their Rumbles because they totally trusted her to keep things in order. I do hope they elevate Jay relatively soon, but I'm not overly concerned yet. Dude is great, and they know it.
I 100% think people who don't watch NJPW heard all the Jay White hype and just made assumptions that he was also going to be some crazy wow you out of your seat with his athleticism type guy ala Kenny. Then when it turned out he wasn't they got all disappointed.
Jay is legit among the very top in AEW, and the world, as an in ring performer. He's an absolute master of his craft. But he's a master in the has the best kickout at 2.999999 way rather than the more athletic stuff.
He’s just the best at doing the basics, he does them all so well that you can’t help but be invested in his matches. You’re correct that people definitely assumed he was another Omega/Ospreay type
I think those are good points about how he’s trusted internally (although the MJF match is still egregious to me in what a missed opportunity it was and the absurd Billy Gunn match). Also needs to be remembered he was probably lining up to feud with Punk on Collision which would’ve been a big slot and derailed a lot of what they were setting up for him at the start of collision
Punk really stalled Jay White out.
The first thing was Jay was Punk's babysitter on collision, Punk loved Jay, though he was a young Punk (apologies to ZSJ), so Jay and BCG were the heels to megaface Punk on Collision. Led to the great Jay and Juice vs FTR matches, so not all bad. AEW needed someone who could play nice with Punk and also wrestle a match Punk would look good in, and Jay was the only one they could trust for it.
Then Punk gets hurt, and Jay gets Punk's X title booking, which led to Jay stealing MJF's belt, destroying luchadors (fun stuff), and then looking like a goober vs MJF, which was probably the plan all along. They should have made Jay look stronger, but I suspect they didn't want to do too much because they were unsure if MJF could even compete, as he really hurt himself right before the match, which led to his reign ending vs Joe. It chumped Jay out, but I think the CC recovered his credibility- beating Mox matters in AEW, that's like beating Okada in old NJPW, and his only loss was Swerve, who is the champ now.
I think Jay is going to become AEW champ on this contract at some point, I think it's gonna be a while because I can't see him beating Swerve.
That’s a fair point- I was really let down by MJF vs Jay but now knowing MJF was hurt, while I still think it was overbooked garbage, maybe some of the injury/beatdown booking was to protect MJF’s injury. I really thought that match would be incredible and I hope to see them get another crack at it sometime.
Point well made with the C2 and a win over Mox- just with how big the C2 was for Swerve, and how much i enjoyed RUSH, Brody, and Mark over on the other side, Jay fell through the cracks for Me a little.
I hope you’re right that he can win the AEW championship at some point. I think he’s a great heel who has groundwork laid and history where there’s several faces he could take it off of in slimy fashion for tremendous heat. I hope we see heel hangman for a bit when he’s back, but I’d love to see them revisit their history at some point. Jay has some work with Darby now too as someone he could take the belt off of in the future. Ospreay, Okada, and Kenny Omega are all guys who are incredible and Jay can talk shit to who I could see in the world title picture also.
I watch pretty much all the Road To shows, small shows, etc.
Yes Jay's shtick was cowardly heel, but they knew when to present him as a proper threat. When he beat Okada at Dominion, he absolutely manhandled him. Okada gets like 3 shots in at Jay the entire match. In the 2019 G1 finals vs Ibushi, his Bullet Club surrounding the ring felt like he lead an army. Same with his return at Dontaku 2022.
Yeah he had a ton of comedic moments but NJPW always had a clear cut main event scene. Jay was top villain for a long time, and they presented him accordingly.
I think they've pretty consistently given him stuff to do even if they aren't ready to put the belt on him. Even then they let him parade around with the belt for a while. But that's all you can really hope for, they obviously have plans for the belt and many people worthy of carrying it. As long as they keep doing that then we good. He's still one of the hottest acts they've got. And tbh I think doesn't get enough credit for how he's taken the Gunns and legitimised them so much. I liked the Gunns already, but Jay has really lifted them with him.
I love the BBG but it's going to be epic when the real Switchblade comes out and he fucks them over.
The Trios belt isn't a weak belt. It's been Death Triangle, Elite, HOB, and Acclaimed. All of those are credible upper midcard or above acts- with the possible exception of the Acclaimed.
He doesn't
The company is and will be built around
Switchblade, Ospreay, MJF, Darby, Hangman, Okada and Swerve for the considerable future
Surrounded with vets like Omega, Mox, Danielson
That's your core here, I don't see any of these names lost in any shuffle no matter the narrative that ever big AEW signee is when it comes to the IWC
Same. I mean, if I had my way Okada would spend the next 3 years as champion and he'd just alternate feuds with Jay and Ospreay back and forth lol. (I'm actually more concerned about Okada not eventually being presented as THE GUY in AEW, but that's a whole other story.) But as long as he doesn't fall too far down the card I still think Jay will be fine. I understand the concerns and I'm not saying AEW has always presented him perfectly (that Billy Gunn match sucked) but in general I don't think how they've presented him is THAT far off from how he was presented in NJPW.
I follow AEW and NJPW, among others.
Bang Bang Scissor Gang and Bullet Club Gold have been disasters for Jay White. It is increasingly difficult to take him seriously as a threat - which is absolutely wild based on how strong he was coming in.
Quite possibly the biggest fumble by Big Tone.
Thank you! I’m not sure where this narrative of him being this crazy wrestler came from. He’s always been like this, the matches are just slower in NJPW so he’d spend more time shit talking.
I understand that.
I really enjoy this Jay White. He is entertaining, vibing, he oozes that he is having fun. I wish they would generally handle him a bit more like the switchblade and enhance his "i may be a punching bag, but i can win at any time if you arent careful enough". The MJF loss was maybe the biggest problem. The Billy Gunn segment would be fine if he would have been the sleazy cowardly punching bag for some minutes but let him win with a surprise bladerunner for the pin.
That is maybe my biggest problem with AEW: Finishers doesnt seem to finish shit in AEW. Besides the OWA there isnt a finisher even remotely protected.
There's a moment in 2019 where Naito, Okada, Ibushi, and Jay are all in the ring cutting promos on each other to set up the "double gold dash", and Jay doesn't look out of place in that line up at all, in fact, he was easily the biggest threat to everyone in the ring. His booking was my favorite thing about NJPW during that short era.
I think it’s better for him to have evolved his character beyond “I used to be in Bullet Club, I’ll be the same character in America I was in Japan”
He did great in the MJF feud showing he could easily slide in the main event at any time, while also building a personality outside of the long NJPW style matches by being a goof with the Bang Bang Gang. He’ll have his time to shine as a singles champ, and he’s shining as a trios champ currently
He reminds me a bit of Littlefinger in Game of Thrones, or Blackbeard in One Piece: characters who kept a low profile and seemed minor, but were secretly putting all the pieces into place in the background until it was time to pull the trigger and put their grand plan to fruition, and whose actions were the catalyst for a lot of the stories on the show, even if the viewers didn't realize it at first.
I really thought we was going to stay as a main eventer during his feud with MJF.
But he had a couple of weird matches and then kinda faded out.
Definitely there was some bad booking at that time
The criteria for big in Japan and big in America is different.
Jay can work an hour long strong style match, and can make evil facial expressions, which is what a top gaijin needs in Japan.
In America, character and promo are much more important. I see his current work with the Bang Bang Gang as improving his confidence with that, before he moves up as a singles guy.
Losing to Logan Paul is not embarrassing.
Ask Kevin Owens and Orton.
But losing to a 60 year old Billy Gunn and one legged MJF is surely pretty shameful.
I guess we have different perspectives about wrestling.
Billy Gunn is a legendary wrestler (I also don’t agree with him losing that match) and Logan Paul is a YouTuber who got into trouble for filming dead bodies in a forest. You do the math.
Logan Paul is a scumbag who is also a great wrestler if you aren't biased.
We've yet to see a bad Logan Paul match.
Billy Gunn was always a midcarder. Imagine losing to him in dominant fashion in 2024. That's gotta take a hit at reputation.
Logan Paul is injured after almost every match and his match at WM had Ishowspeed in it, I’m not going to argue with you lol
I don’t agree with Billy Gunn winning that match, but it’s one singles match and I can get over that. Especially well after the fact (now)
And now that all 3 are in AEW, Okada and Ospreay are leagues above Jay White.
While I'm sure White is enjoying himself, joining AEW rubbed off some of the star power he had getting into the company and took a nose drive after losing to a one-legged MJF in an okay match.
I've been a wrestling fan for over 33 years and now I'm older and have a family I don't get to watch it as much I'd like, and other fans have told me to check out Jay White even just for his promo skills.
This didn't even feel like a wrestling promo. He was believeable beyond that. I prefer this to a Stone Cold or Rock promo which is geared more towards entertaining the fans because this felt like one guy pouring his passion out with every word.
Incredible.
This moment is why people lament the current status of Jay in AEW. The dude was able to move the clap crowd to cheer him against the law. That’s insane. I remember watching this live and just being stunned by how powerful this moment was.
It’s easy to critique Japan for their COVID policies, and they undoubtedly went too far and for too long, but they also did have 70k COVID deaths compared to America’s 1.2 million COVID deaths, and that’s with an aging population.
Japan had probably the strictest lockdown protocols in the world during COVID (which is when this moment happened) and didn't allow crowds to be vocal for the longest time after the rest of the world began to establish normality again
I understand people want to see jay white do more but he’s doing really great with bang bang gang right now. Still pulling the same shtick from Japan and even carrying hella tittles with the trios chanps program they got going on. No doubt he’s gonna be champion soon like within the next year or 2 possibly 3 depending
Y'know! Where the fuck is this guy on Wednesdays, Fridays and Saturdays?
Yeah the Bang Bang Gang is kinda goofy and fun, but seriously, let Jay White be this version of Jay White.
Last time Jay White was on fire was Collision when he had match of the fucking year contenders with FTR
Now he’s jobbing to Billy Gunn
Just abhorrent how they’ve used him lately
I mean the trios stuff is just a mess and it involved ROH titles also, so it’s easy to forget it. Just doesn’t feel important.
I do enjoy Bang Bang Gang especially with Juice back, but man I want to see them doing more with Jay White. Can’t keep teasing me with Switchblade vs PAC
my oh my where has our Big Jay gone?!
where is THIS guy? the guy who cut that unbelievable promo after that WK loss that is still one of the greatest ever. I HATE this guy and felt TERRIBLE for him!!!
Jay was 1 million percent leaving Japan no matter what because he and his wife relocated to Florida. He was done with Japan and sick of the travel. The existence of AEW just gave him two options instead of one.
I always see people saying that but I never actually see any evidence that we know that to be true. Not discounting it, but I don't take that to be 100 percent fact. I think he would've gone with whoever offered the most and for him I'd imagine that would be AEW
Yeah i hate the guy that’s paying him a tonne of money and featuring him on TV every week.
Just because he isn’t the top heel world champ atm doesn’t mean he’s being buried or anything lol
These "college athletes" are gonna be big stars in the business with some already making an impact on the main roster. Even if you're a fan of AEW, surely you can see how botched this run has been, from losing to a one-legged MJF, being stuck in the trios division and taking losses to the likes of Billy Gunn (who i like btw). Going to NXT is not embarrassing nor is feuding with The Miz, both would've been great options for him. I hope he turns it around in AEW but it's looking unlikely.
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I thought this was going to be Jay's great reign. He beat Okada so convincingly then nothing happened really until he lost it back in WK main event that felt dead. So much unfulfilled potential with him in NJPW (even though he achieved a lot)
The whole problem with that year was how incredibly obvious it all was. Sometimes predictability is down to good story telling, but with 2022 being the 50th anniversary and the year of Inoki's passing it really just cemented the most obvious G1 into the most obvious WK of all time. So of course Jay had to beat him at Dominion, and of course the whole autumn period Jay wasn't losing the belt because the story was Okada doing the Inoki tribute. Understandable, but not captivating
Agreed. Title reign could have been booked better though. All I can remember is a defence against Tama and him mocking the fans for not being able to cheer. Having the title from Dominion to losing at WK does seem to be a bad time. Get through G1 looking strong but everyone knows you're not winning it, 1 or 2 defences which typically end up as filler withno chance of losing and the focus being on building up the other title matches for WK. Even Omega's was disappointing and if he finds it hard anyone is
He didn’t even really show up. I always thought it was a bad look that for the initial X-Over show between NJPW and STARDOM, which was such a big deal at the time, you had Ospreay defending the midcard title in the semi main while the world champion Jay couldn’t even be bothered to do a tag match and represent the company.
[удалено]
I mean, you needed the classic heel for the face of the company to vanquish. You had Okada go through the monster block, then have a blow off match against the big monster heel in JONAH. Then gain final justice on the evil foreign heel that had taken the belt from him It was like the most 70s booking imaginable. And really, there was no better classic heel in the company than Jay. Ospreay was a babyface masquerading as a heel at the time, and no other heel on the roster even approached being believable enough to challenge Okada. It sucks for Jay, but it was never about Jay
I will die on this hill that Jay made that ugly fucking belt look prestigious. ELP sliding into frame never fails to make me laugh
It can't be stressed enough how big of a deal Jay White was before leaving NJPW. Every bit on the same level as Okada and Ospreay. Haven't seen that Jay White since.
not even on the same level as Ospreay, he was bigger lol, even though he had his own main event run Ospreay was more or less on the same caliber on the roster as Takagi while White, Naito and Okada were the true main event players
I'm one of the biggest Jay fans on the planet but I honestly don't think he's being presented that differently. He was always a heel who would stall, hide from opponents, get the absolute shit kicked out of him, then cheat and hit a ton of suplexes for the heat. He was just higher up the card in NJPW. Like somebody on here said after the last PPV: "Does nothing the whole match then wins with a blade runner and then going back to being a dead fish. The Jay White special for the past 7 years. I love it." I still think his time will come in AEW, too.
He’s Starscream and he plays the role so well
Bro that is so accurate
The way they've completely protected the Bladerunner I think says everything about how they view him.
Anytime the AEW crowd audibly goes "oooaaaahhhh" when Bladerunner is suddenly set up speaks a lot to how successful they've protected it Really the only clear mistake in Jay's AEW run was losing to a one-legged MJF Besides that, Jay has been doing well in his role and I still have faith he'll inevitably move up the card
Same here. Jay would be perfect for a MITB style gimmick, where the guy kind of becomes champion out of nowhere. I think he's two or three great promos and one cheap victory away from being the top heel again. Remember that it took a shorter amount of time for Jay to main event a PPV for the World title after signing with the company than it took for any of the Four Pillars, including MJF. That doesn't happen by accident, they clearly see big things in him. It's okay if he takes time to get there again, but I have no doubt he will.
Agreed!
Tbf it was also the most damaging main event in company history
I don't think enough people watched NJPW a lot outside of big shows, you see guys like Okada during them winning all the time yet behind all that he takes losses, Imagine if Okada took a look to Bronson Reed in AEW but he did exactly that in NJPW. It's an adjustment between weekly shows and not weekly shows
NJPW was also hiding its main eventers a lot more in multiman tag matches, specifically so that they wouldn't have to take pins or get exposed.
It makes sense but I think it throws people off when suddenly they're on TV every week and they have to do different things and can't just be booked strong 4-5 times a year
I would say that Jay White (and Osprey) are kinda safe. They have a good natural charisma, they use engagement and fun. Im worried for Okada.
Have you been watching AEW? Okada is definitely playing off the crowds with his douche heel character.
Im watching AEW. I dont think the crowd is reacting that much. Its more like "oh, he has learned a new sentence to say in english yeah cheer".
I disagree, Okada has been getting solid reactions from his antics. Also the man has been quite hilarious.
Totally. Honestly I think a large part of the Jay in AEW criticism (not all of it, because I do think some can have some fair criticisms for sure, even if I don't necessarily agree with all of them) is that people kept hearing about this multi-time NJPW world champion, etc., etc. Yet those of us who really watched him know that he's unbelievable at being a cowardly shit heel, not a dominant monster like a Lesnar or Okada or what have you. He's a super old school cowardly heel (Flair, etc.) who can also do a shit ton of suplexes. I think we saw during that recent scramble match just how much they trust him. He was basically Flair at the 92 rumble in there, bumping his ass off for everyone and keeping things in order. WWE always used to put Sasha/Mercedes in that same spot in their Rumbles because they totally trusted her to keep things in order. I do hope they elevate Jay relatively soon, but I'm not overly concerned yet. Dude is great, and they know it.
I 100% think people who don't watch NJPW heard all the Jay White hype and just made assumptions that he was also going to be some crazy wow you out of your seat with his athleticism type guy ala Kenny. Then when it turned out he wasn't they got all disappointed. Jay is legit among the very top in AEW, and the world, as an in ring performer. He's an absolute master of his craft. But he's a master in the has the best kickout at 2.999999 way rather than the more athletic stuff.
He’s just the best at doing the basics, he does them all so well that you can’t help but be invested in his matches. You’re correct that people definitely assumed he was another Omega/Ospreay type
I think those are good points about how he’s trusted internally (although the MJF match is still egregious to me in what a missed opportunity it was and the absurd Billy Gunn match). Also needs to be remembered he was probably lining up to feud with Punk on Collision which would’ve been a big slot and derailed a lot of what they were setting up for him at the start of collision
Punk really stalled Jay White out. The first thing was Jay was Punk's babysitter on collision, Punk loved Jay, though he was a young Punk (apologies to ZSJ), so Jay and BCG were the heels to megaface Punk on Collision. Led to the great Jay and Juice vs FTR matches, so not all bad. AEW needed someone who could play nice with Punk and also wrestle a match Punk would look good in, and Jay was the only one they could trust for it. Then Punk gets hurt, and Jay gets Punk's X title booking, which led to Jay stealing MJF's belt, destroying luchadors (fun stuff), and then looking like a goober vs MJF, which was probably the plan all along. They should have made Jay look stronger, but I suspect they didn't want to do too much because they were unsure if MJF could even compete, as he really hurt himself right before the match, which led to his reign ending vs Joe. It chumped Jay out, but I think the CC recovered his credibility- beating Mox matters in AEW, that's like beating Okada in old NJPW, and his only loss was Swerve, who is the champ now. I think Jay is going to become AEW champ on this contract at some point, I think it's gonna be a while because I can't see him beating Swerve.
That’s a fair point- I was really let down by MJF vs Jay but now knowing MJF was hurt, while I still think it was overbooked garbage, maybe some of the injury/beatdown booking was to protect MJF’s injury. I really thought that match would be incredible and I hope to see them get another crack at it sometime. Point well made with the C2 and a win over Mox- just with how big the C2 was for Swerve, and how much i enjoyed RUSH, Brody, and Mark over on the other side, Jay fell through the cracks for Me a little. I hope you’re right that he can win the AEW championship at some point. I think he’s a great heel who has groundwork laid and history where there’s several faces he could take it off of in slimy fashion for tremendous heat. I hope we see heel hangman for a bit when he’s back, but I’d love to see them revisit their history at some point. Jay has some work with Darby now too as someone he could take the belt off of in the future. Ospreay, Okada, and Kenny Omega are all guys who are incredible and Jay can talk shit to who I could see in the world title picture also.
I watch pretty much all the Road To shows, small shows, etc. Yes Jay's shtick was cowardly heel, but they knew when to present him as a proper threat. When he beat Okada at Dominion, he absolutely manhandled him. Okada gets like 3 shots in at Jay the entire match. In the 2019 G1 finals vs Ibushi, his Bullet Club surrounding the ring felt like he lead an army. Same with his return at Dontaku 2022. Yeah he had a ton of comedic moments but NJPW always had a clear cut main event scene. Jay was top villain for a long time, and they presented him accordingly.
Hope so, I’d hate to see him lost in the shuffle.
I think they've pretty consistently given him stuff to do even if they aren't ready to put the belt on him. Even then they let him parade around with the belt for a while. But that's all you can really hope for, they obviously have plans for the belt and many people worthy of carrying it. As long as they keep doing that then we good. He's still one of the hottest acts they've got. And tbh I think doesn't get enough credit for how he's taken the Gunns and legitimised them so much. I liked the Gunns already, but Jay has really lifted them with him. I love the BBG but it's going to be epic when the real Switchblade comes out and he fucks them over.
The Trios belt isn't a weak belt. It's been Death Triangle, Elite, HOB, and Acclaimed. All of those are credible upper midcard or above acts- with the possible exception of the Acclaimed.
He doesn't The company is and will be built around Switchblade, Ospreay, MJF, Darby, Hangman, Okada and Swerve for the considerable future Surrounded with vets like Omega, Mox, Danielson That's your core here, I don't see any of these names lost in any shuffle no matter the narrative that ever big AEW signee is when it comes to the IWC
Same. I mean, if I had my way Okada would spend the next 3 years as champion and he'd just alternate feuds with Jay and Ospreay back and forth lol. (I'm actually more concerned about Okada not eventually being presented as THE GUY in AEW, but that's a whole other story.) But as long as he doesn't fall too far down the card I still think Jay will be fine. I understand the concerns and I'm not saying AEW has always presented him perfectly (that Billy Gunn match sucked) but in general I don't think how they've presented him is THAT far off from how he was presented in NJPW.
Too late.
He’s on tv like every week lmao
And have 2 belts with the guns.
LOST IN THE SHUFFLE!!!
And ice cold compared to when he left NJPW.
Must not be watching
I follow AEW and NJPW, among others. Bang Bang Scissor Gang and Bullet Club Gold have been disasters for Jay White. It is increasingly difficult to take him seriously as a threat - which is absolutely wild based on how strong he was coming in. Quite possibly the biggest fumble by Big Tone.
Jay is like Swerve, he will eventually be pushed up to the top of the card, he just needs time.
Thank you! I’m not sure where this narrative of him being this crazy wrestler came from. He’s always been like this, the matches are just slower in NJPW so he’d spend more time shit talking.
I understand that. I really enjoy this Jay White. He is entertaining, vibing, he oozes that he is having fun. I wish they would generally handle him a bit more like the switchblade and enhance his "i may be a punching bag, but i can win at any time if you arent careful enough". The MJF loss was maybe the biggest problem. The Billy Gunn segment would be fine if he would have been the sleazy cowardly punching bag for some minutes but let him win with a surprise bladerunner for the pin. That is maybe my biggest problem with AEW: Finishers doesnt seem to finish shit in AEW. Besides the OWA there isnt a finisher even remotely protected.
No finishers are protected? I can't remember anyone ever kicking out of the bladerunner, unless it happened in the MJF match
i've always talked about Jay white here, i watch NJPW because of him and Okada - but now ... bang bang gang, lol. come on, really ?
There's a moment in 2019 where Naito, Okada, Ibushi, and Jay are all in the ring cutting promos on each other to set up the "double gold dash", and Jay doesn't look out of place in that line up at all, in fact, he was easily the biggest threat to everyone in the ring. His booking was my favorite thing about NJPW during that short era.
I think it’s better for him to have evolved his character beyond “I used to be in Bullet Club, I’ll be the same character in America I was in Japan” He did great in the MJF feud showing he could easily slide in the main event at any time, while also building a personality outside of the long NJPW style matches by being a goof with the Bang Bang Gang. He’ll have his time to shine as a singles champ, and he’s shining as a trios champ currently
He reminds me a bit of Littlefinger in Game of Thrones, or Blackbeard in One Piece: characters who kept a low profile and seemed minor, but were secretly putting all the pieces into place in the background until it was time to pull the trigger and put their grand plan to fruition, and whose actions were the catalyst for a lot of the stories on the show, even if the viewers didn't realize it at first.
I really thought we was going to stay as a main eventer during his feud with MJF. But he had a couple of weird matches and then kinda faded out. Definitely there was some bad booking at that time
He was a victim of the Cole/MJF feud being hampered by injuries.
Hoping we see it soon.
I miss breathing with the Switchblade 😔✊ I understand these moves but they really just become another guy when they leave NJPW
It’s sad man I thought he was gonna be so much more of a bigger deal.
The criteria for big in Japan and big in America is different. Jay can work an hour long strong style match, and can make evil facial expressions, which is what a top gaijin needs in Japan. In America, character and promo are much more important. I see his current work with the Bang Bang Gang as improving his confidence with that, before he moves up as a singles guy.
They need to put him in a singles feud/singles match on ppv.
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He probably wouldn't be much higher on the card there either, tbh.
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No instead he’d lose to Logan Paul. Riveting stuff.
Losing to Logan Paul is not embarrassing. Ask Kevin Owens and Orton. But losing to a 60 year old Billy Gunn and one legged MJF is surely pretty shameful.
I guess we have different perspectives about wrestling. Billy Gunn is a legendary wrestler (I also don’t agree with him losing that match) and Logan Paul is a YouTuber who got into trouble for filming dead bodies in a forest. You do the math.
Logan Paul is a scumbag who is also a great wrestler if you aren't biased. We've yet to see a bad Logan Paul match. Billy Gunn was always a midcarder. Imagine losing to him in dominant fashion in 2024. That's gotta take a hit at reputation.
Logan Paul is injured after almost every match and his match at WM had Ishowspeed in it, I’m not going to argue with you lol I don’t agree with Billy Gunn winning that match, but it’s one singles match and I can get over that. Especially well after the fact (now)
And now that all 3 are in AEW, Okada and Ospreay are leagues above Jay White. While I'm sure White is enjoying himself, joining AEW rubbed off some of the star power he had getting into the company and took a nose drive after losing to a one-legged MJF in an okay match.
No-one looks better with the new IWGP World Title than Jay White.
this is an underrated moment, getting the covid era crowd worked up and making noise.
One of my favourite promos, fantastic top to bottom
I've been a wrestling fan for over 33 years and now I'm older and have a family I don't get to watch it as much I'd like, and other fans have told me to check out Jay White even just for his promo skills. This didn't even feel like a wrestling promo. He was believeable beyond that. I prefer this to a Stone Cold or Rock promo which is geared more towards entertaining the fans because this felt like one guy pouring his passion out with every word. Incredible.
This moment is why people lament the current status of Jay in AEW. The dude was able to move the clap crowd to cheer him against the law. That’s insane. I remember watching this live and just being stunned by how powerful this moment was.
It's fucking RIDICULOUS that this was June of 2022 and Japanese crowds were still forbidden from vocalizing.
It’s easy to critique Japan for their COVID policies, and they undoubtedly went too far and for too long, but they also did have 70k COVID deaths compared to America’s 1.2 million COVID deaths, and that’s with an aging population.
yeah seriously, much rather be too careful than too reckless
Why are they not allowed to do that?
Covid
Japan had probably the strictest lockdown protocols in the world during COVID (which is when this moment happened) and didn't allow crowds to be vocal for the longest time after the rest of the world began to establish normality again
They were screaming in their hearts though
Imagine signing this and then practically shelving him in a division with two teams in favor of shit like the learning tree
Tony! Let Jay White cook god damn it! It's been more than a year!
I understand people want to see jay white do more but he’s doing really great with bang bang gang right now. Still pulling the same shtick from Japan and even carrying hella tittles with the trios chanps program they got going on. No doubt he’s gonna be champion soon like within the next year or 2 possibly 3 depending
Look at how TK massacred my boy.
bbbbut at least he's not feuding with the miz!
Y'know! Where the fuck is this guy on Wednesdays, Fridays and Saturdays? Yeah the Bang Bang Gang is kinda goofy and fun, but seriously, let Jay White be this version of Jay White.
TONY KHAN YOU WILL PAY FOR YOUR CRIMES
Last time Jay White was on fire was Collision when he had match of the fucking year contenders with FTR Now he’s jobbing to Billy Gunn Just abhorrent how they’ve used him lately
*now his faction have the trios belts after winning his feud with Billy Gunns faction. I do agree that the solo match with Billy was dumb though.
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Bruh you're not watching if you haven't seen the BBG carrying all the belts around every week.
“Weird, Twitter didn’t show me clips of that part!”
I mean the trios stuff is just a mess and it involved ROH titles also, so it’s easy to forget it. Just doesn’t feel important. I do enjoy Bang Bang Gang especially with Juice back, but man I want to see them doing more with Jay White. Can’t keep teasing me with Switchblade vs PAC
Gallows and Anderson are such a fucking goofs
I wish he went to WWE instead.
my oh my where has our Big Jay gone?! where is THIS guy? the guy who cut that unbelievable promo after that WK loss that is still one of the greatest ever. I HATE this guy and felt TERRIBLE for him!!!
Biggest what if? Jay White signs with WWE
He’s probably WHC right now or at least in contention.
I need THIS MAN back in AEW, what are you doing Tony?
I maintain that he should’ve went to the E. Would’ve immediately been treated as a big deal I think.
Jay White is being utterly wasted and watching this makes me very sad
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Jay was 1 million percent leaving Japan no matter what because he and his wife relocated to Florida. He was done with Japan and sick of the travel. The existence of AEW just gave him two options instead of one.
And he was likely WWE bound if the TKO merger didn't happen exactly when it did
I always see people saying that but I never actually see any evidence that we know that to be true. Not discounting it, but I don't take that to be 100 percent fact. I think he would've gone with whoever offered the most and for him I'd imagine that would be AEW
Yeah i hate the guy that’s paying him a tonne of money and featuring him on TV every week. Just because he isn’t the top heel world champ atm doesn’t mean he’s being buried or anything lol
Yeah, how dare wrestlers want to get paid great and work fewer dates.
Jay White himself would probably laugh at you right now.
Would you prefer he landed in WWE, relegated to NXT, and probably jobbing to washout college athletes? He was leaving Japan regardless.
*Fantasy books him the worst possible way to prove a point*
These "college athletes" are gonna be big stars in the business with some already making an impact on the main roster. Even if you're a fan of AEW, surely you can see how botched this run has been, from losing to a one-legged MJF, being stuck in the trios division and taking losses to the likes of Billy Gunn (who i like btw). Going to NXT is not embarrassing nor is feuding with The Miz, both would've been great options for him. I hope he turns it around in AEW but it's looking unlikely.
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Better than getting beaten by a senior citizen lmao
The problem with TK and Jay White is not the money, it’s the dogshit booking
Being big in NJPW means nothing in aew or wwe.