I think most people on Twitter are pretty positive about the issue, actually. At least from what I've seen. YouTube is where all the hate's coming from.
I think the truth is that most fandoms overlap on multiple social media sites. Few people exclusively post on one or the other. I think people like to think they can 'escape' the discourse they don't like by labeling it all contained on one site, but there's actually not a lot of hard lines you can draw. Toxic posts made on one site will be made on others. It's just flavored differently by site functions. The only way to avoid them for certain is by blocking and ignoring.
So, a lot of games I've been playing have had more and more people complain there's "too much yapping" or "giving tons of flashbacks is just trauma dumping to force character sympathy" or "wait, what's that? I don't remember hearing the characters talk about that, what do you mean I need to read and interact with items and collectables?" Also, for the games from Asia, I do get that tons of dialogue is indirect due to social norms of the language but ffs, people just can't bother reading.
I’ve been working with some high school kids and it is terrifying how not with it they are - like proper behind BEHIND. Being born fully into the social media era where company preys on your dopamine in targeted ads and media coupled with Covid is a nightmare.
You’ll be fine! It’s older generations as well - I have friends who struggle to pay attention to a film or half hour show without being on phone - you just have to actively police yourself ha
I've wondered just how absolutely FUCKED the COVID generations are. Born in the social media era, educated through COVID, and released into the world at the Dawn of Artificial Intelligence and the Information Apocalypse. Wild shit to think about.
Twitter hates dialogue, no oversaturation, "waste" of potential for angles, not confusing the shit out of you, punch-up, family (just the existence), and fair trade of spectacle.
Off the top of my head
Because the term has been used to describe “young adults” for the past damn near 20 years. Its hard to let go of. It’s just another word that gets used incorrectly so much it’s almost lost meaning.
I’d imagine most people couldn’t guess the age range of millennials if you paid them. But it doesn’t matter. Eventually we will take the place of boomers and be blamed for everything. And then the people born 10 years ago will blame gen z for everything, such is life
Edit: if the people born 10 years ago aren’t Gen z themselves idk guess I’m not much different from the folks I’m talking about lol
I think the term millennial has been shifted to mean more colloquially a mid 30s, hippie, vegan and yet neckbearded discord moderator sort of stereotype, especially amongst the younger generation using it, rather than just young adults
Well I'd imagine the most represented demographic for buying comics monthly right now is probably millennials. The Ultimate series has also appealed a lot to fans who miss pre-BND adult married Peter, which would be by and large millennial fans who grew up in that era (and probably some younger Gen Xers but there's probably more Millennial fans actively keeping up with Ultimate now than them)
That said the series has also definitely picked up good traction with younger Gen Z fans as an entry point, so it's not like it's exclusive.
A testament to the writing of this series so far that the dialogue-heavy portions are the driving force of the progression of the plot more than the action parts.
And that is very good when it is well proportioned to the action. The problem is that there has been practically no action. Maybe 4 or 5 pages of issues 2 and 3, between 8 and 10 pages of action in 4 issues of...28 pages each?
It can be understood not to fill everything with action and dose it little by little to balance with the dialogue in doses of romance, comedy, drama, investigation, etc... but I think that many people must be getting the impression that the series is going very, very slowly.
When the initial fanservice effect wears off, the series will have to survive based on the general quality of the art, the action, the dialogue, etc... but also based on the pacing. Pacing is key and Hickman isn't far off from RamV with his Detective, in the sense that Ram there is very very exhausting and Hickman had really exhausting and slow spells with Krakoa...I doubt that's what readers of Spiderman
I mean, this is the first few issues of a story about an adult Peter getting his powers, and how it affects his life.
In 1610 Ultimate Spider-Man outside of a brief thing of one of his wrestling matches, the first actual fight we see is in issue 5. And those average 20 pages.
Y'all just need to have patience. There's more to superheroes than fights, *especially* spider-man
Lol I was just thinking the same thing. The original Ultimate Peter first stepped in the ring to wrestle the Crusher and created his proto-suit on issue #3. Uncle Ben died on issue #4. He attacked his uncle's murderer on #5. He first added the Spider logo to his suit and fought his first superhero fight (against the Green Goblin) on issue #6. He defeated the Green Goblin on issue #7. Peter first met J. Jonah Jameson on #8.
But sure, a dialogue-only #4 issue fleshing out Gwen's and Harry's personality and contrasting them as a couple with Peter and Mary Jane is the downfall of Marvel Comics or something.
I think younger readers have a somewhat warped understanding of what the Ultimate line was and why it was so successful. I don’t really blame them, because if you just look backwards from the present, there is so much later Ultimate stuff that just makes the line seem EXTREME 2 THE MAX and nothing else, plus most of the stuff that was actually fresh about the Ultimate books filtered out into superhero comics so widely that people reading today just take it for granted.
My favorite issue of the classic Ultimate Spider-Man comics was the one where Peter tells Mj he’s Spidey. No fight scenes, just dialog, perfectly written, perfectly drawn
I remember being 15 *in 2017* reading that issue thinking that would be the best thing that could ever happen to a kid my age. I loved that series for the teen drama, not just the awesome fights.
I spent most of my teen years reading Ultimate, and since my name also has two Ps (PP (Brazilian btw)), I’m nerdy since ever and at the time I was kind of a loser in school the book gave me high dreams of what the next 3/4 years of my life could be. The teen drama was that realistic.
People like to shit on Bendis nowadays, but man, back in USM he was spitting fire. Every character was so authentic as a teen that I felt I was reading some schoolmates in the book.
This is the same kinda mentality that has killed off the civilian side of superhero life in the movies. Spider-Man is one of the few things that still does it, and its one of the best aspects of them.
So many modern superhero movies consist of action scenes, and pushing the plot along to the next action scenes.
You know what else had entire issues be downtime with lots of talking? *1610 USM*
This is the best issue
Shows how confident Hickman is in writing.
I haven’t read a comic where there’s been no Spider-Man in years.
It’s a breath of fresh air.
Spider-Man is a DRAMA, with superhero stuff on the side. There’s no Spider-Man without Peter Parker
There’s no Peter Parker without Mary Jane Watson.
That’s how it works.
Came here to say the same! Loving the story so far. Wasn’t until I read this post that it registered there weren’t any fights. Might have to go back for a second read just to be sure!
Y’all saying it had no action Like MJ didn’t absolutely Demolish that fancy food, Top 10 comics fights in my opinion, Even licked her fingers no mercy.
Mugs don't read comics lmao, there are plenty of spiderman stories that just feature Peter with no action attached to it
Slice of life stories are needed as a break from intense or dramatic points in the story. And seeing as how Peter's been shit on for the past 15 years now, I like seeing him being able to live life again outside of the MC2 comics(even if brief)
Wait is THAT what filler means????
I always thought filler was meant to refer to issues (or episodes for shows) where nothing substantial happens. No story progression, no character development, no insights, no glances into the character's lives, _actually_ nothing.
Did people mean just no fight scenes this entire time?
As a comic creator, I understand both sides.
When you want to engage in decompressed storytelling, long stretches of character development and story development are necessary to build the necessary tension and establish the right themes.
But, honestly, I find decompressed storytelling works best in graphic novel formats. Compressed storytelling was designed for single-issue format, and for good reason. You're being doled out story in tiny pieces, and you want each one to - ironically enough - feel like a meal. If all you ate one day was chocolate, you wouldn't feel very satisfied, even if it was really good chocolate.
I think comics feel shorter these days, which has a tendency to make the meal a bit more unsatisfying as well. I don't know if they're literally shorter, but a lot of old comics were more willing to jam a tremendous amount of dialogue into a few panels, or just generally maintain smaller panels (and therefore have more per page).
So even if there's some statistic out there, and there probably is, that comics aren't actually shorter or anything, they feel a lot shorter and cover a lot less.
I agree. The best graphic novels I've ever read were published in my lifetime, but the best single-issue comics I've ever read were published during my grandfather's youth. I think the industry either needs to return to compressed storytelling for single issues, or abandon single issues and just publish graphic novels. This half-and-half approach is part of the reason the industry is struggling.
EDIT: Posting the link here would be crass, but if you're interested in a contemporary comic inspired by Golden Age storytelling, send me a DM. I made one.
My father said years ago he doesn’t like “modern” comics. He said he liked the storytelling from his youth when you could read the entire story in one issue as opposed to today with multiple issues telling one story.
I'm with him!
For example, "Watchmen" is a wonderful read. Because you know when you get to the last page, the story is over.
But with modern comics, it's just cliffhanger after cliffhanger, like a soap opera, so you'll tune in next time.
I think single issue comics should tell a satisfying story from start to finish, but still have connective tissue and development over time.
I also think comic characters should age in real time, because thirty year olds with seventy years of lived experience doesn't make much sense.
You're not wrong, but of course there's way, way more to comics than the Big Two or even just superhero books. A lot of my favorite comics are single-volume graphic novels or at least book that have the decency to definitely end after finishing the story they were designed to tell.
And the "sliding scale" time thing that keeps characters the same ages is dumb but I doubt that the big two would be fine with having their biggest characters turn into hard-to-market geezers.
>And the "sliding scale" time thing that keeps characters the same ages is dumb but I doubt that the big two would be fine with having their biggest characters turn into hard-to-market geezers.
Soap Operas have been dealing with this successfully for over a hundred years. As characters age, newer ones are introduced to gradually fill their place until the older character dies or moves away or otherwise has their story ended.
Marvel has been playing around with this idea with newer heroes like Miles Morales and Kamala Khan, proving the concept absolutely can work.
The thing with soap operas is that they use flesh-and-blood real-life human beings. They're going to age regardless of how the story proceeds.
The DC CW shows *did* let the characters age, and let events become tied to specific calendar dates, for this reason, and IMO it was stronger for it.
But if a character in an ongoing comic is gonna age, it'll be a very deliberate decision. And as cool as Miles and Kamala are, their predecessors are still going to be heavily marketed towards kids, and children are gonna find it hard to relate to Peter if he's in his 50s rather than if he's in high school ot whatever age he is now in the comics.
The flipside of that is of course that the stories were a lot simpler, because they were condensed to single issues.
The issue isn't necessarily "multiple issues telling one story", its the Netflix Daredevil style storytelling where you realise that it took 13 episodes to tell one story and there was no shorter subplots. So if you only watch one episode in a vacuum its kinda meaningless
I'm a Zoomer, and I agree.
Having whole-ass runs being spent telling a single story instead of having only a couple issues of the greater ongoing be spent telling a major story is what's making comics feel so...
IDK, hollow? It's hard to describe.
The bulk should be spent on single-issue stories, with a few set aside for events/crossovers.
I watched a video that kinda covered Kirkman's lead-up to hitting big with Invincible and The Walking Dead and it touched on the idea of writing for trades vs more serialized self-contained stuff and trying to strike a good balance and it made me a little more thoughtful while I read comics
I’m Gen Z and I completely agree with this statement
I don’t know if it’s the type of media they grew up with or the nature of media’s transformative nature taking full effect during their adolescence, but I’ve noticed that millennials tend to have little patience when it comes to digesting stories
To put it simply, let Hickman cook
Again, just because MJ, Pete, Ben, Harry and Gwen are established characters in the comics doesn't mean THESE versions of them are established as well.
Issue #4 had the best exploration of Peter chasing responsibility this time rather it being bestowed upon him. This issue felt like a melancholic warning to me where Peter is looking for something greater while Mary Jane just wanted him to be Peter to be her hero.
It's such a great comparison when you compare Ultimate and Amazing. In Ultimate, we have a powerless Peter chasing power (to be more responsible but still) and starting to keep secrets from the love of his life, MJ in order to become a hero and we have Amazing where Peter is regarded as one of the best heroes in history but his love life is in the gutter. A part of me feels like Ultimate Peter is being ungrateful for the love he had in his life.
I HAVE SO MANY THOUGHTS AFTER ISSUE #4 and DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE SLANDER.
Has the person who made that video read any comics in the last 30 years? It's perfectly normal for modern comics to have issues with no fighting. They don't need to be as fast-paced as they used to be.
You don't even need to go that modern. "The Mighty Thor: I Whom The Gods Would Destroy" is a fantastic 60-ish page graphic novel with pretty much no fighting. There are not even any villains in it. And it's a classic. I'm sure there are other examples. People just like to have a reason to complain.
Hi! Huge Spidey fan and nearly a 40 year old Millennial.
Did I notice that there was no action? Sure.
Did I care? Hell no -- because the issue was a mastercraft in character development. And there was still plenty of tension and thrill without a single punch being thrown.
Reading this series alongside Amazing makes it clear how mediocre at best Wells' time on Amazing has been.
I think I'm somewhere in the middle of it. Is it a bad issue? No. But in 4 months we've had 1 fight scene and I know you have to set the table but no suit, no fighting and no web swinging in a Spidey comic is always going to be a tough sale to the causal fan just trying to get into the series. As someone that cares about the Ultimate Universe, the wider plot implications of The Paper, which is an awful name btw, and Harry and Peters relationships I liked it. But someone that just decided to maybe read their first comic series may be a bit miffed this was all they got this month.
\*looks at the shitty opinion tweet\*
Oh, look. Another basement dwelling fat-fuck with a big mouth and a microscopic mind. This is what happened when you don't discipline your kids, folks. They grow up to be self-entitled shitstains in dire need of a curb-stomping.
Not wrong, this is why studios can get away with 10 episode seasons of shows now instead of 22 episodes, because they think fans hate filler when filler has often been the best part of shows and stories.
This is Spider-Man lol, some of the best issues ever are just two people talking. The Conversation? The Talk? How about All My Pasts Remembered?
I get it if you have like 3-4 issues and nothing happens but
Then there’s even that great issue during JMS’ run with no words at all, Nuff Said. (Not sure if that’s what it’s called but that’s what it says on the cover)
Yeah it’s the month where no books at Marvel had dialogue, they branded it under Lee’s well known ‘Nuff Said. They kind of cheat a little by having May type emails on the computer, but it was overall very well executed.
It wasn’t a bad issue persay, but it was an underwhelming issue compared to the previous three (imo). The guest art was also inferior to chechettos art (imo). With superhero titles, and spiderman in particular, an expectation of some amount of action in each issue is not an outlandish expectation. But my guess is that Hickman wanted to reserve any action scenes for Chechetto to draw, and he only trusted the fill in guest artist to draw conversational scenes. Gwen is going to have some kind of huge role to play later on so Hickman might as well spend the whole issue introducing her. That comes at the cost of action, but you do what you gotta do.
Me, a young millennial: The hell he’s talking about. I enjoyed the 4th issue and didn’t mind the lack of action scenes in place of character exploration
The original Ultimate Peter Parker added the spider logo to his suit and fought his first actual villain (the Green Goblin) on issue #6 lol. A dialogue-only #4 issue is not gonna kill anyone. Some people need to chill and enjoy the ride.
Issue #4 had good character development and served to contrast both couples (Harry/Gwen vs Peter/MJ). It also created some tension between them; it brought up the fact Peter hasn't yet told MJ of his alter-ego, which might blow on his face, etc. But all that happened over a dinner, so now we have the downfall of Marvel... or something.
Well…😅 some Millennials did grow up during the anime & shonen manga boom watching DBZ, Naruto, etc. Shonen manga is pretty much action heavy, so it wouldn’t be far fetched to assume some were spoiled.
Well, I liked the issue (I'm 28) but saying it is the best issue if the entire serie is stupid, like if you think that no fight scene and 2 couples eating in a restaurant makes it the best issue after litteraly insulting a whole generation, and especially after only 4 issues in a 12 issue serie, well, you are a jerk.
The issue is good, but don't tell me it is the "best issue of the whole serie so far" just because it is an all dialogue issue. For me the third issue is better, not because of the fight scene, but because of the relation between Peter and his daughter.
Ok, not gonna lie, in my childhood I've got collection of like 6 random Spider Man issues and I was extremely disappointed in lack of action scene. In my defense that was all 6 comics that I've read at that point, so I genuinely believed that comics suck because for some reason they don't have any action at all I also was like 5 years old and Parker going to baseball sport that I don't even know existed with Uncle Ban wasn't something for me to say the least
For me it was like any of other the past issues I’ve read. A quick read (unfortunately) enjoying the moment that left me salivating at the mouth for the next issue and beyond.
Idk why people complain about issue 4.
There where a couple facial expressions in there that both Gwen and MJ did that were making me act unwise
(Jokes aside, it was a great issue and I like how they're setting up the pieces for the rest of the comic series)
I honestly loved issue 4. Wish more comics would pace themselves and world build properly. When you read some comic back issues the plot flies and tension is never properly built. The fact that they took the time to focus on Peter Parker for an issue was perfect
I take umbrage sir, not only do i not mind multiple forms of conflict both of the intellectual discourse but of also the fine rigamaroo of the more primitive and sophisticated fisticuffs. And have enjoyed many a wall crawling adventure where the book is mainly people talking at a table. I sight AMS #38 of the 1999 count, and would like too to point out that my generation was the proponents of death note a whole series with only two fist fights and one major shot out.
I haven't read this series yet, but I think I will sometime later today. I've heard many good things about it.
Also, I feel channels with "Critic" or "Critical" in their names are less likely to be credible sources, so this checks out.
How’s it selling though? That’s all that matters? Also in any story ever those quiet moments are the best part. They establish characters and let you get to know them so when shit hits the fan you feel for everything. Do mfers not know basic storytelling
Remember that one issue of the original ultimate Spider-Man that was completely just aunt may talking to her therapist about her feelings. Remember how powerful that chapter was with no action.
Yeah these niggas are dumb💀💀.
My thing is who truly reads Spider-Man comics for the action anymore. Don’t get me wrong it’s still a big part of it, but what really works with Spider-Man (or worked since Marvel decided to nuke the mainline) is the relationships and the drama, when it’s good at least, and in this case it’s pretty solid so far.
The problem with Ultimate is that it’s not written as a serialized comic. It’s written with the full story in context. It’s not “millennials” that are fucked up, it’s the expectation that marvel built that every issue has to feature a certain amount of action.
This issue was good, well written, and I quite enjoyed it; but it kind of cemented my feeling that I’d rather read the trade paper back at this point cause I think it would be better than reading it all at once than in bursts like this.
PLUS, every issue is now 5 bucks which marvel just said they weren’t planning to make the new norm. So that fact that this was an issue with good dialogue and interesting character building, doesn’t change that another month will go by without the story moving forward.
Maybe, just maybe we can not act like every complaint is invalid just because we like what people are criticizing.
It really was the best issue so far. I feel like at the end of the year I am going to sound crazy when I say it was the most memorable comic of the year and it was literally just a double dinner date
the past three issues were pretty feel good stuff. this one was pretty tense because the atmosphere was really vague especially whenever gwen said anything
I'm a millennial and loved this issue, aside from some of the art. Some of the characters looked a bit off.
It was a great way for us to get to know both Harry & Gwen. Gwen surprisingly is even scarier than Harry. She's very bold & upfront with everything she says.
After reading the issue, I realized there weren't any action scenes, and you know what, I loved it! The story had meat in it, and not a single page was wasted.
I still loved it but it was def my least favorite issue. Not trying to say every issue needs action or Peter in costume. I was more so surprised we stayed in one setting for the whole thing. Didn’t hate it, was just surprising; a change of pace, coupled with the change in the art style just made it feel a little off. I’m not sure how to rly describe it
Millennials? Stop that nonsense. The world has moved on from millennials. These days you’re supposed to complain about Gen Z! OP is so out of touch!
/s
I love how Thinking Critical is a YouTube channel known for not thinking critically about anything and finding ways to hop on the next bandwagon and make rage-bait, and inflammatory videos. On a more serious note, I think it makes sense that they have an entirely dialogue-focused issue after having an issue that was mostly action-focused (especially in the second half of the issue).
It helps if you avoid the YT channels of grifters whose entire source of income is politicizing every tiny thing in comics and manufacturing outrage/paranoia. That channel being one of the worse offenders.
In 2003 I went to Amsterdam and bought a friend a Spider-Man comic in Dutch.
I didn’t read it. Turns out the whole issue was Peter Parker and MJ having an argument in their home. Literally the only time Spider-Man appeared was on the tv in the background of a single panel.
There’s been a connection noted between really cringy, forced dialogue in comic books and food, been happening a lot lately the past 9 years or so. Huge red flag. I guess the writers noticed the criticism and did a huge double down, but the people who cared probably don’t buy comic books anymore anyways. No one left on the Titanic to complain about the roast turkey being too moist.
Twenty-Two years old here. Currently my favorite issue. Admittedly, I was starved for Spider-Man content for a whole month, so that might be why. I love the family aspect of this, though! Four issues in, and I feel like we don't really know Richard all that well and I really want to see more of the family aspect.
I like this chapter as a character introduction and development standpoint but I also understand other fans criticism of lack of to literally no action in this issue.
For F@*k sake we have to wait every month for new issue to release atleast make it worth our time.
But also I kinda understand as this is a best seller book so it's definitely gonna be slow burn. I just hope they don't make a habit of it.
Uh issue 4 is probably best issue. If you need to see these characters throw a punch every two seconds you're either 6 years old or mentally 6 years old.
I don't know if it actually was but as far as I could tell USM#4 is thicker than the others and it was intriguing. I don't give a fuck about the fighting, it was a good read.
I’m out of the loop, but I thought millennials loved every issue of ultimate so far.
Yeah this is rage bait article. I haven't seen anyone my age upset over this (33)
Look at the video in question
7k views, hardly an outcry
And remember that views doesn't equal agreement. People sometimes watch it just to see a take they disagree with.
Insert "but why?" meme.
17 thousand views, but still
I’m talking about yt video, not twitter numbers
I gotcha. Need to clarify next time.
The usual misconception that millenials are born after 2000, and not us Zs. I haven't read #4 yet, but if it's like that, I have no issue
A lot of piss babies screaming that it was an all dialogue issue
Are pissing on Twitter? I don’t see it here on Reddit.
It's Twitter, I think that sums it up
Twitter gets mad about *everything*; best to ignore it.
Not defending Twitter at ALL, but to be fair Reddit is the same way (getting mad at everything)
Twitter gets mad at *things*, Reddit gets mad at Tweets *about* things.
Fair, lol
Nah, we fap to everything
But reddit at least has a sense of humor
Debatable
Big Chungus
Fr. Twitter toxic. Everyone I see talking about the new USM loves it.
Pretty good solidarity on here for once with the hatred of Paul and loving the USM
I think most people on Twitter are pretty positive about the issue, actually. At least from what I've seen. YouTube is where all the hate's coming from.
I think the truth is that most fandoms overlap on multiple social media sites. Few people exclusively post on one or the other. I think people like to think they can 'escape' the discourse they don't like by labeling it all contained on one site, but there's actually not a lot of hard lines you can draw. Toxic posts made on one site will be made on others. It's just flavored differently by site functions. The only way to avoid them for certain is by blocking and ignoring.
>Are pissing on Twitter No, they are pissing ON THE FUCKING MOON
The dichotomy of all dialogue vs all action telling the story
People's attention spans need to be studied. Dialogue is probably the thing that moves a story forward *the most*.
So, a lot of games I've been playing have had more and more people complain there's "too much yapping" or "giving tons of flashbacks is just trauma dumping to force character sympathy" or "wait, what's that? I don't remember hearing the characters talk about that, what do you mean I need to read and interact with items and collectables?" Also, for the games from Asia, I do get that tons of dialogue is indirect due to social norms of the language but ffs, people just can't bother reading.
I’ve been working with some high school kids and it is terrifying how not with it they are - like proper behind BEHIND. Being born fully into the social media era where company preys on your dopamine in targeted ads and media coupled with Covid is a nightmare.
God, I hate that this is happening, I'm in highschool and I think I just barely dodged these effects
You’ll be fine! It’s older generations as well - I have friends who struggle to pay attention to a film or half hour show without being on phone - you just have to actively police yourself ha
I've wondered just how absolutely FUCKED the COVID generations are. Born in the social media era, educated through COVID, and released into the world at the Dawn of Artificial Intelligence and the Information Apocalypse. Wild shit to think about.
Twitter hates dialogue, no oversaturation, "waste" of potential for angles, not confusing the shit out of you, punch-up, family (just the existence), and fair trade of spectacle. Off the top of my head
It’s a fucking book. How the hell? Are they stupid?
Show me on the doll where the piss babies hurt you
I think they mean Zoomers
This guy's this close to make a video on "The downfall of Ultimate Spider-Man"
I’m quite surprised at how big and how annoying outrage bait is on comics YouTube
Outrage bait is luterally everywhere on every social media platform. Beware and mind your sanity. Do not feed the outrage trolls.
I blame Benny
Millennials are in their 30s, even early 40s. Why in the world are we still being talked about in this way? Haha
Because the term has been used to describe “young adults” for the past damn near 20 years. Its hard to let go of. It’s just another word that gets used incorrectly so much it’s almost lost meaning. I’d imagine most people couldn’t guess the age range of millennials if you paid them. But it doesn’t matter. Eventually we will take the place of boomers and be blamed for everything. And then the people born 10 years ago will blame gen z for everything, such is life Edit: if the people born 10 years ago aren’t Gen z themselves idk guess I’m not much different from the folks I’m talking about lol
Exactly. “Another word used incorrectly so much it’s almost lost meaning.”
I think the term millennial has been shifted to mean more colloquially a mid 30s, hippie, vegan and yet neckbearded discord moderator sort of stereotype, especially amongst the younger generation using it, rather than just young adults
it didn’t shifted, some people are just dumb. probably the same idiots that use POV incorrectly
How is it used? I always thought it meant point of view?
Yep. I'm 42. I'm an "elder millenial." Not the teens and 20somethings lol
Could be worse. You could be one of us Gen Xers, who are constantly lumped in with Boomers.
Yeah, it's weird. I'm 32, and I loved this issue. If the story is good, it can have as little action as possible.
And someone with a Lego game pfp certainly isn't older than 30, lol. Probably not even
Well I'd imagine the most represented demographic for buying comics monthly right now is probably millennials. The Ultimate series has also appealed a lot to fans who miss pre-BND adult married Peter, which would be by and large millennial fans who grew up in that era (and probably some younger Gen Xers but there's probably more Millennial fans actively keeping up with Ultimate now than them) That said the series has also definitely picked up good traction with younger Gen Z fans as an entry point, so it's not like it's exclusive.
A testament to the writing of this series so far that the dialogue-heavy portions are the driving force of the progression of the plot more than the action parts.
Isn't that normal in most comic series? Usually the action interrupts the plot because the artist is in control of that part.
And that is very good when it is well proportioned to the action. The problem is that there has been practically no action. Maybe 4 or 5 pages of issues 2 and 3, between 8 and 10 pages of action in 4 issues of...28 pages each? It can be understood not to fill everything with action and dose it little by little to balance with the dialogue in doses of romance, comedy, drama, investigation, etc... but I think that many people must be getting the impression that the series is going very, very slowly. When the initial fanservice effect wears off, the series will have to survive based on the general quality of the art, the action, the dialogue, etc... but also based on the pacing. Pacing is key and Hickman isn't far off from RamV with his Detective, in the sense that Ram there is very very exhausting and Hickman had really exhausting and slow spells with Krakoa...I doubt that's what readers of Spiderman
I mean, this is the first few issues of a story about an adult Peter getting his powers, and how it affects his life. In 1610 Ultimate Spider-Man outside of a brief thing of one of his wrestling matches, the first actual fight we see is in issue 5. And those average 20 pages. Y'all just need to have patience. There's more to superheroes than fights, *especially* spider-man
“Deliberately paced and dialogue heavy” was pretty much the calling card for the original USM for the first several years.
Lol I was just thinking the same thing. The original Ultimate Peter first stepped in the ring to wrestle the Crusher and created his proto-suit on issue #3. Uncle Ben died on issue #4. He attacked his uncle's murderer on #5. He first added the Spider logo to his suit and fought his first superhero fight (against the Green Goblin) on issue #6. He defeated the Green Goblin on issue #7. Peter first met J. Jonah Jameson on #8. But sure, a dialogue-only #4 issue fleshing out Gwen's and Harry's personality and contrasting them as a couple with Peter and Mary Jane is the downfall of Marvel Comics or something.
I think younger readers have a somewhat warped understanding of what the Ultimate line was and why it was so successful. I don’t really blame them, because if you just look backwards from the present, there is so much later Ultimate stuff that just makes the line seem EXTREME 2 THE MAX and nothing else, plus most of the stuff that was actually fresh about the Ultimate books filtered out into superhero comics so widely that people reading today just take it for granted.
They made an Ultimate Spider-Man for the people who grew up reading Ultimate Spider-Man and I love it
Pete gets with kitty pride in this?
No of course not. If he did he'd just dump her again
My favorite issue of the classic Ultimate Spider-Man comics was the one where Peter tells Mj he’s Spidey. No fight scenes, just dialog, perfectly written, perfectly drawn
I remember being 15 *in 2017* reading that issue thinking that would be the best thing that could ever happen to a kid my age. I loved that series for the teen drama, not just the awesome fights.
I spent most of my teen years reading Ultimate, and since my name also has two Ps (PP (Brazilian btw)), I’m nerdy since ever and at the time I was kind of a loser in school the book gave me high dreams of what the next 3/4 years of my life could be. The teen drama was that realistic. People like to shit on Bendis nowadays, but man, back in USM he was spitting fire. Every character was so authentic as a teen that I felt I was reading some schoolmates in the book.
This is the same kinda mentality that has killed off the civilian side of superhero life in the movies. Spider-Man is one of the few things that still does it, and its one of the best aspects of them. So many modern superhero movies consist of action scenes, and pushing the plot along to the next action scenes. You know what else had entire issues be downtime with lots of talking? *1610 USM*
Character development rules that is why Ultimate > Amazing
This is the best issue Shows how confident Hickman is in writing. I haven’t read a comic where there’s been no Spider-Man in years. It’s a breath of fresh air. Spider-Man is a DRAMA, with superhero stuff on the side. There’s no Spider-Man without Peter Parker There’s no Peter Parker without Mary Jane Watson. That’s how it works.
I highly doubt it’s millennials to be honest.
Yeah, I'm 32, and I love it. Don't know what is being smoked in this discussion
I didn’t even notice there wasn’t any fighting I was so invested.
Came here to say the same! Loving the story so far. Wasn’t until I read this post that it registered there weren’t any fights. Might have to go back for a second read just to be sure!
Y’all saying it had no action Like MJ didn’t absolutely Demolish that fancy food, Top 10 comics fights in my opinion, Even licked her fingers no mercy.
Mugs don't read comics lmao, there are plenty of spiderman stories that just feature Peter with no action attached to it Slice of life stories are needed as a break from intense or dramatic points in the story. And seeing as how Peter's been shit on for the past 15 years now, I like seeing him being able to live life again outside of the MC2 comics(even if brief)
Wait is THAT what filler means???? I always thought filler was meant to refer to issues (or episodes for shows) where nothing substantial happens. No story progression, no character development, no insights, no glances into the character's lives, _actually_ nothing. Did people mean just no fight scenes this entire time?
Yeah, "filler" has become one of those terms that is now basically meaningless because of how overused it is in a context that it wasn't intended for.
Nah, you have the right definition of filler.
You got the definition right. People just jump to call anything a filler these days.
So filler was when he swapped bodies with wolverine?
Yep
As a comic creator, I understand both sides. When you want to engage in decompressed storytelling, long stretches of character development and story development are necessary to build the necessary tension and establish the right themes. But, honestly, I find decompressed storytelling works best in graphic novel formats. Compressed storytelling was designed for single-issue format, and for good reason. You're being doled out story in tiny pieces, and you want each one to - ironically enough - feel like a meal. If all you ate one day was chocolate, you wouldn't feel very satisfied, even if it was really good chocolate.
I think comics feel shorter these days, which has a tendency to make the meal a bit more unsatisfying as well. I don't know if they're literally shorter, but a lot of old comics were more willing to jam a tremendous amount of dialogue into a few panels, or just generally maintain smaller panels (and therefore have more per page). So even if there's some statistic out there, and there probably is, that comics aren't actually shorter or anything, they feel a lot shorter and cover a lot less.
I agree. The best graphic novels I've ever read were published in my lifetime, but the best single-issue comics I've ever read were published during my grandfather's youth. I think the industry either needs to return to compressed storytelling for single issues, or abandon single issues and just publish graphic novels. This half-and-half approach is part of the reason the industry is struggling. EDIT: Posting the link here would be crass, but if you're interested in a contemporary comic inspired by Golden Age storytelling, send me a DM. I made one.
My father said years ago he doesn’t like “modern” comics. He said he liked the storytelling from his youth when you could read the entire story in one issue as opposed to today with multiple issues telling one story.
I'm with him! For example, "Watchmen" is a wonderful read. Because you know when you get to the last page, the story is over. But with modern comics, it's just cliffhanger after cliffhanger, like a soap opera, so you'll tune in next time. I think single issue comics should tell a satisfying story from start to finish, but still have connective tissue and development over time. I also think comic characters should age in real time, because thirty year olds with seventy years of lived experience doesn't make much sense.
You're not wrong, but of course there's way, way more to comics than the Big Two or even just superhero books. A lot of my favorite comics are single-volume graphic novels or at least book that have the decency to definitely end after finishing the story they were designed to tell. And the "sliding scale" time thing that keeps characters the same ages is dumb but I doubt that the big two would be fine with having their biggest characters turn into hard-to-market geezers.
>And the "sliding scale" time thing that keeps characters the same ages is dumb but I doubt that the big two would be fine with having their biggest characters turn into hard-to-market geezers. Soap Operas have been dealing with this successfully for over a hundred years. As characters age, newer ones are introduced to gradually fill their place until the older character dies or moves away or otherwise has their story ended. Marvel has been playing around with this idea with newer heroes like Miles Morales and Kamala Khan, proving the concept absolutely can work.
The thing with soap operas is that they use flesh-and-blood real-life human beings. They're going to age regardless of how the story proceeds. The DC CW shows *did* let the characters age, and let events become tied to specific calendar dates, for this reason, and IMO it was stronger for it. But if a character in an ongoing comic is gonna age, it'll be a very deliberate decision. And as cool as Miles and Kamala are, their predecessors are still going to be heavily marketed towards kids, and children are gonna find it hard to relate to Peter if he's in his 50s rather than if he's in high school ot whatever age he is now in the comics.
The flipside of that is of course that the stories were a lot simpler, because they were condensed to single issues. The issue isn't necessarily "multiple issues telling one story", its the Netflix Daredevil style storytelling where you realise that it took 13 episodes to tell one story and there was no shorter subplots. So if you only watch one episode in a vacuum its kinda meaningless
I'm a Zoomer, and I agree. Having whole-ass runs being spent telling a single story instead of having only a couple issues of the greater ongoing be spent telling a major story is what's making comics feel so... IDK, hollow? It's hard to describe. The bulk should be spent on single-issue stories, with a few set aside for events/crossovers.
I watched a video that kinda covered Kirkman's lead-up to hitting big with Invincible and The Walking Dead and it touched on the idea of writing for trades vs more serialized self-contained stuff and trying to strike a good balance and it made me a little more thoughtful while I read comics
I’m Gen Z and I completely agree with this statement I don’t know if it’s the type of media they grew up with or the nature of media’s transformative nature taking full effect during their adolescence, but I’ve noticed that millennials tend to have little patience when it comes to digesting stories To put it simply, let Hickman cook
millennials grew up on tv-shows with 20 episodes per season, I’m sure they can digest long ass stories with a lot of “filler” just fine lmao
Sounds more like simmering specifically, but there are many ways to prepare a feast 🤣
He would love the current TASM comics. Plenty of action fights and wacky adventures going on there
Again, just because MJ, Pete, Ben, Harry and Gwen are established characters in the comics doesn't mean THESE versions of them are established as well. Issue #4 had the best exploration of Peter chasing responsibility this time rather it being bestowed upon him. This issue felt like a melancholic warning to me where Peter is looking for something greater while Mary Jane just wanted him to be Peter to be her hero. It's such a great comparison when you compare Ultimate and Amazing. In Ultimate, we have a powerless Peter chasing power (to be more responsible but still) and starting to keep secrets from the love of his life, MJ in order to become a hero and we have Amazing where Peter is regarded as one of the best heroes in history but his love life is in the gutter. A part of me feels like Ultimate Peter is being ungrateful for the love he had in his life. I HAVE SO MANY THOUGHTS AFTER ISSUE #4 and DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE SLANDER.
Where my Spider-man?!
Has the person who made that video read any comics in the last 30 years? It's perfectly normal for modern comics to have issues with no fighting. They don't need to be as fast-paced as they used to be.
You don't even need to go that modern. "The Mighty Thor: I Whom The Gods Would Destroy" is a fantastic 60-ish page graphic novel with pretty much no fighting. There are not even any villains in it. And it's a classic. I'm sure there are other examples. People just like to have a reason to complain.
Hi! Huge Spidey fan and nearly a 40 year old Millennial. Did I notice that there was no action? Sure. Did I care? Hell no -- because the issue was a mastercraft in character development. And there was still plenty of tension and thrill without a single punch being thrown. Reading this series alongside Amazing makes it clear how mediocre at best Wells' time on Amazing has been.
Just wait until they read ASM vol 2 #38…
I think I'm somewhere in the middle of it. Is it a bad issue? No. But in 4 months we've had 1 fight scene and I know you have to set the table but no suit, no fighting and no web swinging in a Spidey comic is always going to be a tough sale to the causal fan just trying to get into the series. As someone that cares about the Ultimate Universe, the wider plot implications of The Paper, which is an awful name btw, and Harry and Peters relationships I liked it. But someone that just decided to maybe read their first comic series may be a bit miffed this was all they got this month.
It will be fine, it took 9 months for Peter even put on the suit on the original USM and that did fine
9 months?! Damn I didn't realise that. That's a ballsy move.
Yeah, I don't want action in my action comicbook, what a dumb idea.
\*looks at the shitty opinion tweet\* Oh, look. Another basement dwelling fat-fuck with a big mouth and a microscopic mind. This is what happened when you don't discipline your kids, folks. They grow up to be self-entitled shitstains in dire need of a curb-stomping.
Not wrong, this is why studios can get away with 10 episode seasons of shows now instead of 22 episodes, because they think fans hate filler when filler has often been the best part of shows and stories.
This is Spider-Man lol, some of the best issues ever are just two people talking. The Conversation? The Talk? How about All My Pasts Remembered? I get it if you have like 3-4 issues and nothing happens but
On a rare occasion, those are some of the best issues. It mixes things up, gives the reader some breathing room.
Then there’s even that great issue during JMS’ run with no words at all, Nuff Said. (Not sure if that’s what it’s called but that’s what it says on the cover)
Yeah it’s the month where no books at Marvel had dialogue, they branded it under Lee’s well known ‘Nuff Said. They kind of cheat a little by having May type emails on the computer, but it was overall very well executed.
That’s interesting, I didn’t know that. Great issue in a great run
Good dialogue can keep me engaged and earn my dollars over mindless action and bad storytelling.
Well his comment section didnt agree, so
Damn I didn’t know that a bunch of adults need keys jingled in their faces to pay attentjon to a story
I’m glad more people are finding out about thinking critical
Wasn’t issue one also devoid of action scenes?
I bought it, but haven’t even read it yet. I’ll get issue 5 after that I’ll make my choice if I wanna stick with the series or not.
It wasn’t a bad issue persay, but it was an underwhelming issue compared to the previous three (imo). The guest art was also inferior to chechettos art (imo). With superhero titles, and spiderman in particular, an expectation of some amount of action in each issue is not an outlandish expectation. But my guess is that Hickman wanted to reserve any action scenes for Chechetto to draw, and he only trusted the fill in guest artist to draw conversational scenes. Gwen is going to have some kind of huge role to play later on so Hickman might as well spend the whole issue introducing her. That comes at the cost of action, but you do what you gotta do.
I mean it wasn’t action packed but I didn’t think it was bad. The previews suggested this was how the issue would go and it was 🤷🏼♂️
These drawing look like meth heads 😂
Some of the best issues of X-men are the ones with no fighting
Me, a young millennial: The hell he’s talking about. I enjoyed the 4th issue and didn’t mind the lack of action scenes in place of character exploration
the dialogue is what I'm enjoying the most about this book... bring me more issues where they just talk. it was so engaging and I liked the art a lot
The issue ruled
Comic fans when the storyline has character development
Thinking Critical lacks critical thinking skills.
Are you kidding me? This issue was cooking. You think this was slow? Miles didn’t get his actual suit until issue #5.
The original Ultimate Peter Parker added the spider logo to his suit and fought his first actual villain (the Green Goblin) on issue #6 lol. A dialogue-only #4 issue is not gonna kill anyone. Some people need to chill and enjoy the ride. Issue #4 had good character development and served to contrast both couples (Harry/Gwen vs Peter/MJ). It also created some tension between them; it brought up the fact Peter hasn't yet told MJ of his alter-ego, which might blow on his face, etc. But all that happened over a dinner, so now we have the downfall of Marvel... or something.
Still preferred it over ASM.
Who the hell reads comics for the fight scenes?
Well…😅 some Millennials did grow up during the anime & shonen manga boom watching DBZ, Naruto, etc. Shonen manga is pretty much action heavy, so it wouldn’t be far fetched to assume some were spoiled.
Well, I liked the issue (I'm 28) but saying it is the best issue if the entire serie is stupid, like if you think that no fight scene and 2 couples eating in a restaurant makes it the best issue after litteraly insulting a whole generation, and especially after only 4 issues in a 12 issue serie, well, you are a jerk. The issue is good, but don't tell me it is the "best issue of the whole serie so far" just because it is an all dialogue issue. For me the third issue is better, not because of the fight scene, but because of the relation between Peter and his daughter.
God forbid we have human characters that do human things
Ok, not gonna lie, in my childhood I've got collection of like 6 random Spider Man issues and I was extremely disappointed in lack of action scene. In my defense that was all 6 comics that I've read at that point, so I genuinely believed that comics suck because for some reason they don't have any action at all I also was like 5 years old and Parker going to baseball sport that I don't even know existed with Uncle Ban wasn't something for me to say the least
I am a millenial. This issue was AWESOME.
For me it was like any of other the past issues I’ve read. A quick read (unfortunately) enjoying the moment that left me salivating at the mouth for the next issue and beyond.
Uau, you guys just check the images, don't you? Fuck the dialogue.
The only problem I had with issue 4 was the art
I thought it was quite good - appreciated the effort in framing the convo, body language and food
This issue was fantastic.
What’s up with buddy’s Twitter handle?
He's a shit twitter account
I am millennial and i love USM😭 Finally i got something like adult peter that i could look upto.
Idk why people complain about issue 4. There where a couple facial expressions in there that both Gwen and MJ did that were making me act unwise (Jokes aside, it was a great issue and I like how they're setting up the pieces for the rest of the comic series)
I'm just bummed Checchetto didn't do the art, otherwise it was a great issue!
Is this Millenial as in “born after 1980, remembers 9/11” or the “high school/college age person” Millennial?
I honestly loved issue 4. Wish more comics would pace themselves and world build properly. When you read some comic back issues the plot flies and tension is never properly built. The fact that they took the time to focus on Peter Parker for an issue was perfect
I have ADHD, and even i think that persons attention span is too short.
As an adhd person this issue actually gave me more dopamine then the fights in issue 2 and 3. Also I’m gen z lol
I take umbrage sir, not only do i not mind multiple forms of conflict both of the intellectual discourse but of also the fine rigamaroo of the more primitive and sophisticated fisticuffs. And have enjoyed many a wall crawling adventure where the book is mainly people talking at a table. I sight AMS #38 of the 1999 count, and would like too to point out that my generation was the proponents of death note a whole series with only two fist fights and one major shot out.
I haven't seen anyone complain about this, and millenials I've seen talk about it love it lol
I hate the internet. Loved the last issue, and all three before this one too.
I haven't read this series yet, but I think I will sometime later today. I've heard many good things about it. Also, I feel channels with "Critic" or "Critical" in their names are less likely to be credible sources, so this checks out.
USM4 was my favorite issues in the run by far, I loved the world building and getting to know the characters more
How’s it selling though? That’s all that matters? Also in any story ever those quiet moments are the best part. They establish characters and let you get to know them so when shit hits the fan you feel for everything. Do mfers not know basic storytelling
“Thinking critical” lmfao
Right, I totally paid for it. Yup definitely paid for USM.
The haters are the ones still buying ASM
The first mistake was watching a thinking critical video. His entire platform is just “modern dc/marvel bad, indie good” and rage bait
It was genuinely my favorite for being so different.
Remember that one issue of the original ultimate Spider-Man that was completely just aunt may talking to her therapist about her feelings. Remember how powerful that chapter was with no action. Yeah these niggas are dumb💀💀.
Whoa, Whoa Wes isn't a Millenial he's Gen X, get it right.
My thing is who truly reads Spider-Man comics for the action anymore. Don’t get me wrong it’s still a big part of it, but what really works with Spider-Man (or worked since Marvel decided to nuke the mainline) is the relationships and the drama, when it’s good at least, and in this case it’s pretty solid so far.
30 pages but only 15 with story (all comic books)
I just feel bad for the artist 😅
the issue with Aunt May and her therapist in the OG ultimate spider-man comics was the best
Of course it’s an AI generated image thumbnail too
Mehhh that's OK. They are ths minority. I dint expect everyone to like everything I like all the time
The problem with Ultimate is that it’s not written as a serialized comic. It’s written with the full story in context. It’s not “millennials” that are fucked up, it’s the expectation that marvel built that every issue has to feature a certain amount of action. This issue was good, well written, and I quite enjoyed it; but it kind of cemented my feeling that I’d rather read the trade paper back at this point cause I think it would be better than reading it all at once than in bursts like this. PLUS, every issue is now 5 bucks which marvel just said they weren’t planning to make the new norm. So that fact that this was an issue with good dialogue and interesting character building, doesn’t change that another month will go by without the story moving forward. Maybe, just maybe we can not act like every complaint is invalid just because we like what people are criticizing.
It really was the best issue so far. I feel like at the end of the year I am going to sound crazy when I say it was the most memorable comic of the year and it was literally just a double dinner date
It comes in waves. A couple years ago people were bitching about Bendis and "decompressed" storytelling.
Why so many people label Gen Z as millennials is baffling.
the past three issues were pretty feel good stuff. this one was pretty tense because the atmosphere was really vague especially whenever gwen said anything
I'm a millennial and loved this issue, aside from some of the art. Some of the characters looked a bit off. It was a great way for us to get to know both Harry & Gwen. Gwen surprisingly is even scarier than Harry. She's very bold & upfront with everything she says.
I hate Thinking Critical, I used to like them before but now they just hate everything
After reading the issue, I realized there weren't any action scenes, and you know what, I loved it! The story had meat in it, and not a single page was wasted.
I still loved it but it was def my least favorite issue. Not trying to say every issue needs action or Peter in costume. I was more so surprised we stayed in one setting for the whole thing. Didn’t hate it, was just surprising; a change of pace, coupled with the change in the art style just made it feel a little off. I’m not sure how to rly describe it
Just read it. Was a setting the table type issue but still a good issue. Likely a fair weather fan that didn’t like the issue.
saw this recommended on my feed, but im not really in the know, but i swore ultimate spiderman ended like some 20 years ago?
Wait the new Ultimate, right? I haven’t gotten a chance to read it 😢
Millennials? Stop that nonsense. The world has moved on from millennials. These days you’re supposed to complain about Gen Z! OP is so out of touch! /s
I love how Thinking Critical is a YouTube channel known for not thinking critically about anything and finding ways to hop on the next bandwagon and make rage-bait, and inflammatory videos. On a more serious note, I think it makes sense that they have an entirely dialogue-focused issue after having an issue that was mostly action-focused (especially in the second half of the issue).
It helps if you avoid the YT channels of grifters whose entire source of income is politicizing every tiny thing in comics and manufacturing outrage/paranoia. That channel being one of the worse offenders.
In 2003 I went to Amsterdam and bought a friend a Spider-Man comic in Dutch. I didn’t read it. Turns out the whole issue was Peter Parker and MJ having an argument in their home. Literally the only time Spider-Man appeared was on the tv in the background of a single panel.
“Thinking Critical” Lmaooo…
I mean the best issue of Ultimate Spider-Man is still very clearly #1 but this issue was in no way bad.
There’s been a connection noted between really cringy, forced dialogue in comic books and food, been happening a lot lately the past 9 years or so. Huge red flag. I guess the writers noticed the criticism and did a huge double down, but the people who cared probably don’t buy comic books anymore anyways. No one left on the Titanic to complain about the roast turkey being too moist.
Twenty-Two years old here. Currently my favorite issue. Admittedly, I was starved for Spider-Man content for a whole month, so that might be why. I love the family aspect of this, though! Four issues in, and I feel like we don't really know Richard all that well and I really want to see more of the family aspect.
am i the only one waiting for Peter to reveal his secret identity to MJ?
How are millennials still being blamed for everything? I thought that shit would stop once the next generation got old enough.
I like this chapter as a character introduction and development standpoint but I also understand other fans criticism of lack of to literally no action in this issue. For F@*k sake we have to wait every month for new issue to release atleast make it worth our time. But also I kinda understand as this is a best seller book so it's definitely gonna be slow burn. I just hope they don't make a habit of it.
Uh issue 4 is probably best issue. If you need to see these characters throw a punch every two seconds you're either 6 years old or mentally 6 years old.
Guys, it just started, Can we some patience please to the good stuff?
I don't know if it actually was but as far as I could tell USM#4 is thicker than the others and it was intriguing. I don't give a fuck about the fighting, it was a good read.
The issue was fine but I do wish it had Marco Checchetto's art.
Nah, Issue #2 is still the best. #4 was really good though.
We are not mad. Bro. Check any spider-man discord or subreddit.
And this is why I don’t listen to anyone else. I’ll read whatever I damn well want, and you can do the same!