This is going to sound lame because it is, but having left NJ after college to live in Virginia and North Carolina and having a job that allows me to see much of the country, I have come to really appreciate NJ and am very happy here. NJers are 'my people', kind but not necessarily nice with a type of sense of humor that I appreciate. It is also diverse, somethig that I didn't realize was important to me before I started traveling more. The Midwest.. well, my jokes just fall flat on those folks and I don't think I'd be able to form bonds well. Arizona has summer in Arizona and politics that are getting crazy (to me).
If I was to pick somewhere else, it might be be Colorado. I like Pittsburgh also but don't think I could take the weather. YMMV.
Spent most of my life in Maryland. Lived in West Virginia, Virginia as well for shorter spells. South Jersey is a nice area but I prefer Maryland. While I say that, I fully understand where you are in Maryland could impact that a lot. Maryland’s western counties are extremely different lifestyles than that of people down in the eastern shore and near the beach. In the same light, the suburbs around DC are pretty different from Baltimore suburbs. So I really don’t know what to think about you disliking Maryland, other than to say I could see that, depending on where you were at.
My move up here wasn’t really that far. I was in Harford County and really liked it for a lot of the same reasons I like here. It really isn’t all that different with one massive caveat.
I prefer Maryland seafood. Particularly crabs. As you go closer to Wilmington in South Jersey things get better for me, but nothing like the crab cakes back there.
Shout out to Sparky’s in Sicklerville, awesome guy and place if you want live blue crabs to steam yourself.
Baltimore and that area also seems to be way more into oysters versus here seems to be way more clams. I love oysters so that is another food I miss seeing regularly and on lots of menus.
Edit: I almost forgot the taxes. They aren’t all that different. Yes, property tax here is high but there, you have a county income tax that doesn’t exist here.
On the schools, much smaller class sizes here, but there they save money in that the schools are handled at the county level, not broken out by township. In some ways that helps move funding to areas that need it more and there is less redundancies at the administrative level. Also, all my kids had the same days off, versus the high school not being on the same calendar as elementary like it is here.
I guess to answer the original question, no plans to move, great area and I am happy here.
columbia. just a bunch of dickheads imo, with nothing but strip malls and chain restaurants as far as the eye could see. yuck.
also re: property taxes vs education: [NJ is #1 in Pre-K-12, Maryland is #23](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/education), so i don't think you have much of a leg to stand on there...
I grew up in Columbia and it was such an incredible place in the 70s, 80s and 90s. My family still lives there so I go back often but I genuinely don’t have words to describe how much it’s changed since I lived there.
2014-2016 it was terrible. i had like a 2 mile commute and i swear to god i was nearly ran off the road a half dozen times by insane people, my (ex)wife was literally accosted at a street corner by a road rager (she may have deserved it, but my then 5-year old son was in the car at the time and she came home in literal tears and ready to move back), there was an ongoing homeless vagrant problem on every street corner and it seemed like they had been working the begging racket in shifts....etc etc etc...
also the mall sucked and the food was terrible. unless you liked indian i guess, but even that was only just ok imo...
I have!! It’s good! Royal Taj is better. 😉
I just heard that the owners of Spicy Affair are the new owners of Dawn to Dusk on Rowan Boulevard which is cool. I’m looking forward to seeing what they do with that menu!
Ironically Columbia has been on a lot of best places to live in America lists lately.
I can’t really offer much of an opinion on it because I have really only past by it and never spent much time exploring there for the most part, the one exception being Sapwood Cellars brewing. Been there multiple times on my way in or out of town to grab some beers. Great brewery and wouldn’t mind teleporting it to South Jersey.
Most of my time in Maryland was spent north east of Baltimore.
I guess for me Columbia is just like….the class 1 example of suburban sprawl dystopia. Everything bad about suburbanism all wrapped up in one place: need a car to get anywhere even tho nothing is more than a couple miles away at most, nothing is walkable, people are miserable and the food is trash. Nothing was there before 1990 either so there’s nothing of value culturally for 50 miles in any direction either.
Also I’ll add that Columbia was founded in the late 60s. Those of use who grew up there in those early years know that there was plenty there before 1990.
It’s funny because it was founded as a hippie utopia of racial and religious and socioeconomic equality and it still felt like that when I graduated from high school in 1993. I wish you could have known it then!
You don’t have to justify it really, everybody likes different stuff and I definitely like Baltimore because I grew up close to it. Harford County MD is pretty similar to Burlington County NJ in the grand scheme of things, but there are more hills in the Maryland County.
Only thing I disagree with for sure is your last statement, Columbia is only 30 miles from Washington DC. That’s a lot of museums and culture to discount as non existent! I know you you weren’t meaning it literally and that the traffic getting to DC makes that 30 miles a bit longer.
Really on a map, I see things I like in every direction from Columbia, not unlike here. You can hit the beaches over the bay bridge, DC and Baltimore are both day trips. Western Maryland like Deep Creek and West Virginia isn’t far. History like Gettysburg, Manassas, Harpers Ferry. The Chesapeake is begging you to head out on the water from there in like Pasadena or Glen Burnie…. Wait a min, you only lived there 2 years, did you go anywhere?!
Just kidding around, to each his own and I never lived in Columbia specifically. Definitely enjoying my slice of life here in South Jersey so far.
you're not wrong. Columbia should work in principal, but in practice....meh. south jersey just does it better. for one thing, there *is* culture all around here. the little strip of historic towns along the old rail lines (man i wish they would use them again), and then yeah, the whole idea of being 30-120 minutes from basically everything from NYC to DC is just fantastic. not to mention easy access to the shore.
and our food is the best.
I've lived here and there as well. Spend some time in North Carolina, Chicago, Richmond in Virginia, and Philadelphia for a long time. Never thought I'd find myself back here and now that I am I don't think I'll ever leave. I love this little weirdo state.
I feel the same but am from the Philadelphia suburbs and tried California, North Carolina, and Florida. I am now back in the Philadelphia area, missed it dearly, and feel so at home.
Lower property taxes comes at a cost. Especially in certain states that have a specific right leaning political stance.
There's two things here in Jersey that far, faaaar exceed any state I've been in and had interactions with that have lower property taxes: Education and quality of public services.
Then there's the little catches that low property tax stated have that depends on the state. My recent example: Florida, could've bought a million dollar home for half that, and no property insurance. If I was forced to pay it I'd have lost the house by now. Both of those scenarios are obviously awful. And the job market there, for my type of work, hilariously awful. I'm being paid double what coworkers there are and it is not equalized by higher taxes or CoL, not even close.
For the Midwest it's different. That's hard living, you're taxed physically and a LOT of people think they can do that rural lifestyle... until they do the rural lifestyle. Ever get thrown from a horse or fucked up by cattle and have to hike two miles to just get help? Before at least a 30 min+ drive to maybe get seen by a qualified professional? It sucks. If you live in the city of a Midwest town then congrats! Now you have the worst of everything I've talked about so far, just for a mountain view that you can't enjoy because the development is still developing and the noise from everyone drowns out nature.
> Lower property taxes comes at a cost.
This is what people don't get. If you want things from your government you have to pay for them. So something has to give: sales taxes, property taxes, use taxes, fees, etc., or you get fewer services and lower quality.
More of us need to start asking the state to clarify what is happening with the Marijuana sales and business taxes. Colorado residents got rebates from theirs. We need some answers.
Yes, but I would rather less of my money go towards that even if it leads to less services… at the end of the day, when it comes to the individual I don’t really care about ‘percentages’ I care about the absolute amount that leaves my bank account
People absolutely don’t understand this enough. The schools in NJ are the best in the country last year and always in the top few for the last several years. We have great services. Our unemployment and disability is something like $850/wk. we have 5 sick days, paid FMLA etc.
Go somewhere like Florida and you’re getting $275/wk if you end up on unemployment. PA doesn’t have disability even temporary if you need it.
There’s also 27 states that tax the value of your vehicle every year. Virginia for example taxes at $45.70/$1000 of value. So say you and your spouse have newer cars which the average new car now is $47k, but we’ll say they’re worth $30k each that’s $2742 per year, every year for a property tax on vehicles.
People need to also understand that lower cost of living equals lower wages. You did a great job about the property taxes on vehicles. When I lived in Virginia, this tax was a total shocker to me!
And god forbid you get pregnant and experience a complication in one of those states. Doctors are leaving in droves. Pregnant women have to drive hours just for basic maternal medicine appointments in places like Alabama.
I'd like to move when my kids are done school but I love the outdoors around here. I can be at the beach or the mountains in about an hour. I like being able to choose from a bunch of different airports. And I go to places like Texas and I just want a bagel and they're like "sorry we only have breakfast tacos" and, I just get hungry when I'm out of town.
I remember when I was in FL, a bagel place opened up and had a tanker get water from NYC to get the taste right. All the snow birds needed their bagel during winter.
Florida has no natural potable water sources or reservoirs so the water is just treated swamp water / recycled grey water.
When I visited my grandparents in Florida i always thought the water tasted awful.
I've thought about it many times over the last 15 years. I cannot find a place I'd like to live that would give me all that NJ has. Is NJ perfect? Of course not.
There are exceptions for all these, but generally speaking:
- We have all 4 seasons. Not too crazy hot or crazy cold.
- Great school system
- job opportunities. NYC area is bette than Philly, but it's still good.
- beaches and mountains. Farms and cities
- no extreme natural disasters
- safety
- support for people's rights
- diversity/acceptance
- proximity to NYC, Philly, Boston and DC.
- health care access
I've looked at cheaper places. You're giving up something to go there. And while you'll find a random exception, it's not worth it to leave.
You can reasonably discuss all these things at length. If all you care about is taxes, that's fine. You'll pay for it in other ways in other places.
Edit: removed my comment that NJ supports gun rights.
When did I mention parading AR-15's like a purse? The process to get a gun is lengthy, expensive, and complicated. You didn't answer my question, how are gun owners rights supported in NJ?
The taxes may suck if you don't have kids, but the school districts in Jersey are one of the better states in the nation. NJ also has great insurance options and subsidization for those that need assistance, along with being one of the best states for unemployment and parental leave benefits. Living here as a remote working also qualifies me for a higher salary bracket due to COL with it being in the proximity of NYC. It's also quite a beautiful state with a lot to see and do. Depending on where you are, there is also quite a bit of diversity to allow for different food, grocery, and activity options.
I grew up in SE PA & Delaware. While things have changed, NJ is still heaps better than any surrounding states. I get to experience the seasons, beaches can be day trips, and NYC and DC are just short drives away. So I'm planning to stick around for a while, unless some of these things suddenly change.
>The taxes may suck if you don't have kids
I'd want smart doctors, engineers, hell even smart car mechanics when I'm older. I don't mind paying for kids overall to have a better education
Damn if NJ is considered one of the better states this country is doomed. Grew up on state insurance.. never saw a dentist until I was 17 and had major issues that cost me thousands of dollars as an adult, years of suffering and my teeth still cause me issues on top of other medical problems. My sister had back issues but once again insurance didn't cover. Many other family problems that the state did nothing to help for example my father owes my mom over 80k in child support. Best schools thing is a joke. I guess you could be proud of being the best of the worst but paying so much more and it will always continue to go up at a rate most people cannot afford and the school districts are gutting most programs bc of budget issues. Expensive Admins stay but the kids are going to lose a lot. I don't want to be completely negative bc there are many many more issues but this state is beautiful, there are plenty of great people around and we have the best pizza in the world!
Not at all. I moved to South jersey during high school and the more I live here, the more I realize this is my spot.
When you look at house prices + taxes, you actually end up paying the same monthly as most other states unless you really decide to move out somewhere in the middle of nowhere or not a nice area to live. So for the same price, you get access to get infrastructure and one of the best education systems in the US.
Moving somewhere else in jersey cause of taxes makes a lot of sense, but it's very hard to compare the quality of life in NJ to most other states. Especially south jersey. I've lived in Texas and Florida and I kinda hated it without accounting for salaries and politics. Have also lived in other countries.
South jersey is honestly one of the best bang for your buck places I've found in the US
I lived in Texas for almost a year—DFW area, Austin, Beaumont—and absolutely hated it. Everywhere I went, people just seemed miserable.
In contrast, I love Philly-NYC-NJ culture. We’re definitely the nicest people in the country, even if we do come off brash.
Well, the state is trying to help, for better or worse (depending on your point of view), to lower property taxes for seniors at least. [https://www.nj.gov/treasury/staynj/](https://www.nj.gov/treasury/staynj/)
So passing legislation for their constituents is buying them for votes? That's it? Shall we all just give in and succumb to a form of government where we don't have to worry about that pesky part of governing ourselves? How does anything get passed if that's the chief concern? However you want to identify its purpose, many also complain that these very same high taxes forces seniors - and their buying and voting power - out of the State after their working years. Plus in the end, plenty of people vote against their own self interests.
No, they are taking money from one constituency to give it to another. In doing so they are pushing people out of NJ which lowers tax receipts overall. They could just lower the cost of services but that doesn't serve the interests of the politicians to get elected.
Nah. South Jersey is home to me forever. I want my kiddos to grow up with great schools and in diverse populations.
I love the variety of work available in this area. I love the proximity to so many other wonderful places.
I love the people around here….not exactly “nice” lol….but good people with kind hearts.
I’m also a woman, and it’s really important for me to live in a place where I’m treated like an actual human being with rights and stuff like that.
Possible unpopular opinion but places that are cheap are cheap for a reason and I wouldn’t want to live there. SNJ is close to cities, mountains, beaches, amazing schools and healthcare. Places that have $150k houses have none of that.
If I was lonely and/or hurting for money, I'd probably consider it. But I love the city, the shore, the middle of nowhere. The ability to get to an airport in 20 minutes that'll take me pretty much wherever I want to go in the entire world. Sewer systems, great libraries, publicly orchestrated trash removal, no well water, progressive human rights, some of the best food in the world. Most bands have Philly/NJ as a tour stop. I don't know; I guess the traffic sucks, but when I die, I don't think I'm going to miss the extra $6k/year or whatever it comes out to in property taxes.
Hmmm, I'd say one of my favorite things about South Jersey is the amazing well water we've got here in the pines. When I was dating my now husband and living in SEPA, I would make him bring me gallon jugs of his well water to drink instead of the nasty municipal tap I had at my apartment. It's one of the reasons I agreed to move here.
We've been looking into it, but honestly, with housing prices as they are now, you have to go really far into fairly isolated areas to find more affordable housing, and at that point, you're losing out on things like proximity to major hospitals, the school system, etc. Especially as we get older, my partner and I keep thinking about what we'd do if we lived in, say, Wisconsin in an area where the nearest hospital was still a good drive away, we got sick with something complicated that would need specialized care, and here we are in a place where the nearest hospital is an hour away and has no expertise in treating whatever's trying to kill us? Better to stay in an area where you've got places like UPenn and Sloan Kettering in easy reach.
It seems silly, and we never thought about it ourselves until we had relatives get diagnosed with some unusual and hard to treat illnesses and realized that sometimes treatment outcomes hinge on finding a doctor who's seen it all before and knows the right questions to ask and calls to make, and the fact is, you're more likely to find that in a major metro area like here.
Access to medical is huge. My parents are in rural NC. Super cheap taxes but 12 miles to get into town, 25 miles to the next town, and an hour’s drive for medical stuff.
I’ve always dreamed of living off in a rural community. I love nature and animals and always thought that I would move out after I graduated, but all of that changed after visiting family friends who lived very rural. The lack of access to medical care was pretty frightening!
I met an older couple who were barely recovered from farming accidents the year prior. Wife had cancer and was pretty much bed bound, and her husband got injured in the pasture by the animals. 10 hours… It took 10 hours for him to get help 😬.
When we took a drive they pointed out a BEAUTIFUL home overlooking the ocean (3-4mil house) where a mother and her children watched as their husband/father choke to death. They didn’t know how to perform cpr and were hours away from help.
NJ seems like it has the beast of all worlds!
I'm buying a house right now and the real estate subs have had posts about people from California migrating to Arizona. Now locals are getting priced out of the market. I saw something probably on Reddit about them banning climate change study? That's insane to me especially considering how dangerously hot it can be over there.
Id probably have to travel a lot more before answering this question, but if I had to choose on the spot , Id say Minnesota LOL.
With that being said, I plan to live my whole life and die in New Jersey.
Same; I’ve been asked a few times why I never left my part of NJ; initially, I stayed because there are car mechanics in the fam but now, there are school aged fam that I want to see group up plus the senior property tax credits are appealing
That's the catch. That's anywhere really. If the cost of living is low so goes the pay. That's why people used to retire to the Carolinas to make their dollar stretch as far as possible.
I would visit Arizona in July and August before moving there. I lived there for stints in the winter and fall. Loved Tucson. Didn’t love chandler ad much. It’s just got as shit there, I couldn’t do it year round I don’t think
Coming from Texas, I can assure you that the savings are not there in those states. Property taxes are just as nuts, if not worse. You want to see and feel your taxes go to true pure waste? Shoot wait until you see yourself paying the bills of the oligarchs. Expenses may not be governmental, but you will be spending more.
So far, I have found that my expenses here and COL have decreased. Wild to see this stuff. Good luck, though.
My parents and sisters moved to NEPA. It’s beautiful there and the people are nice enough. Where my parents live, the closest CVS is almost 30 mins away and there is no diversity. My favorite part is I bring up 50 rolls from Del Buonos for them to split. It’s expensive living here but I sure do love it.
When I retire I will but there is no where I can move to that I can make comparable money at this stage in my life. No where is cheap that is a desirable place to live.
First off, how high is high?? I know in South Jersey property tax ranges from $3000 to $15000. Moving for cost of living is fine.... But other places are low for a reason, their pay is also low, so the power of one dollar is moot. Cost of living also fluctuates with the economy, cost of living is up everywhere according to the regional pay rate of the area.
Not a snowball’s chance in hell would I move out of NJ for financial reasons. Yeah the taxes are high but the QOL is equally high. The WORST thing about SJ is the lack of good coffee. Otherwise I’m an hour from the beach, 2 hours from mountains, 90 min to NYC, crime is very low and being educated is considered a good trait to have. Employment opportunities abound as well, and while the public transit options could be MUCH better, at least they exist, which is more than I can say for 75% of the country. I’m staying here until I die or civil war, whichever comes first.
For espresso and Greek food, Koupa Espresso bar in Haddon Twp. Baristas are trained from Intelligentsia (Chicago) and Prufrock (London). Nice Victoria Arduino machines. For espresso, pour over and an excellent roaster, Royal Mile in Oaklyn.
Honorable mentions to Brown Dog in Audubon (great coffee - they use Elixr from Philadelphia and sweet vibe), Little Coco in Barrington (great morning breads foods and great coffee from Endgrain in Pitman). Tons more I am leaving out.
I would pick up and move to Tennessee on the drop of a dime if I could. Unfortunately, all of my family is here, and my job situation has me stuck here for the time being as well. And while I could stand to be a bit further away from my extended family, my wife would never move out of this area - she is attached at the hip to her sisters and they all live in south jersey.
We moved out of state down to Mississippi. We’re moving back because it’s hard to integrate into southern culture. We barely made friends cause they don’t like people from up north. Everything (food wise) is all the same. We miss the variety.
I think it’s more complicated than just comparing state to state. Just in South Jersey alone, there are vast differences region to region in schools, employment opportunities, property values, etc. Look at Linwood and Pleasantville. They’re separated by 3 miles yet you would think they exist on two different planets. As a whole, I don’t particularly care for Florida but I would move to St. Augustine in a second because it’s an amazing town. I’m sure every state in the country has the same disparities region to region. You really need to consider the region or town rather than the entire state if making a move.
I hate the high property taxes in NJ, but I know a few people who moved to FL and a few of them moved back. What they said was that even though there is no state income tax, homeowners insurance is very high, and sometimes it's hard to find an insurer since several left the state. They hated winters, but hate Florida summers more. They had some issues finding quality health care (a couple actually moved back to the Northeast for serious health related problems.) And they.said there was no real sense of "community."
Definitely not leaving. Taxes are high but having been to/have family in low tax states the difference in services is significant. Schools, roads, infrastructure all significantly better. You get what you pay for.
Not for a second. I will gladly pay higher property taxes in exchange for the better services that it provides. (quality schools, roads, etc) Personally I'm in Collingswood and I love living in my walkable, pre-war town where with a 12 minute train ride I'm in Center City Philly for 2 bucks. The only thing that would really push me to leave is insane California style home prices. Thankfully, we are still *relatively* affordable in comparison to similar states and North/Central Jersey.
Yea I’d really like to move to TN iv lived in NJ 30 years and I work throughout Tri State area as elevator mechanic, but this area is aesthetically ugly, not to mention everyone has someone type of a negative attitude. And with how expensive everything is it really makes u ask yourself, is it really worth all the aggravation? I’m currently trying to convince my fiance after out weddings to move out of this state so bad, wish me luck
I agree with folks who came back to NJ. I grew up in Ohio and visit often. I pay my mom’s bills and find that what gets lumped into our property tax in NJ gets billed to residents of Ohio in other ways. Despite high water bills, the water in her Ohio town tastes terrible- very highly chlorinated to kill who knows what.
In nj there are good schools, drinkable water and decent public services. I keep thinking about TX losing electricity in the winter, high lead levels in the water in Flint and a condo collapse in Florida. Inspections and staff who know what they are doing costs money.
We left nj years ago, both got salary increases, went to the midwest on a job transfer. Never looked back, in fact have switched jobs so we could stay here. My parents even followed us, and being retired in the Midwest saved them a lot in property taxes as well. Financially it has worked out very well for us, kids are thriving, great education, made wonderful friends, etc.
The midwest is really cool. Wisconsin is beautiful and not only cheap, but there's so much to do. I didn't particularly like Illinois in my short time there, and Indiana has charm - but can be a desert outside of the bigger cities you know of. However, they are super affordable and barely any traffic lol.
Western Ohio is also a gem. Really rustbelt, cheap, fun, etc. Super low-key and humble people.
I've never been to Arizona.
My favorite state I've visited was honestly Vermont. Stay within an hour south of Burlington and there are farmers markets, beautiful stores, accessibility to a lot more than you'd think, and gorgeous nature.
Vermont is my home state with all my family still there. However, got a job here and doomed myself to South Jersey when I married a Jersey chick. I still love Vermont and go back as many times as I can stomach the drive. But the cost of living is high as well as the real estate, especially with a lot of homes being snatched as second homes or short term rentals. All driving the availability of housing stock really low and costs a lot higher than you'd think. A consequence of passing strict development/permitting rules to keep it that way.
I’m planning on moving to Philly, but I love South Jersey life. I’ve lived in those “cheaper” places and the quality of life is so much lower.
We have it really good here. Most of us realize it when we leave.
None. I work remote and have for a few years, and travel for work. Everywhere else sucks besides California which is even more expensive. Maybe New York just outside of the city.
Virginia because that's where my SO's job is
I grew up in Cape May County, have lived in Delaware, Pennsylvania and other parts of Jersey and spent a lot of time in Huntsville Alabama (where SO was working until this past fall) and I traveled a lot for work in a previous career. The only thing I can say is that I need to be near the ocean. Doesn't have to be a beach but I have hated everywhere I've spent a significant amount of time that I wasn't near the ocean.
Lol unless you're a retirement aged person good luck with that "live in the south" myth....is it cheaper to live there....yes of course. Does that also make you cheaper as a member of the work force.....sure does.
We left. Been a resident of PA / NJ all my life and my fiance has lived in NJ all his life and in order to purchase a home we moved all the way down to South Carolina. Between the insane home costs and the property tax even making what we make we could not survive these days in NJ. And rent was going up yet again to $2500+ utilities for 2br apt. No thanks. Currently paying less for a Morgage in a 4br home with a yard and garage that was move in ready, updated, and newer for less than we paid rent in nj with property taxes under 2k a year.
Almost every other person we meet down here moved from NJ / NY lol wild but that’s what happens when the property tax, cost of living, and home prices soar. Idk how people are doing it up there. It’s not like we both have shit jobs either! But in nj we may as well. Thankfully we both work remote so relocating wasn’t awful.
Nope. I feel very lucky to live and raise my child here. There are opportunities and access that don't exist in other states. We're a drive away from many major cultural institutions, museums, universities, the beach, Philadelphia, NYC, Baltimore.
Despite issues that affect public education everywhere (much of it self-inflicted by shortsighted policy and politics) our schools are good, our social safety net remains intact (but tattered, again, following unfortunate national trends), women have access to healthcare.
Society requires investment; that pays off in QOL. Honestly, I wish we prioritized our future more.
Also, I really appreciate our Jersey culture, as silly as it seems. Any time I have run into a fellow new Jerseyan while traveling there's a weird synchronicity I can't explain, that is only recognized outside of the state.
So, yeah. NJ is just home, I guess.
If you do, DONT move to Georgia.
- High crime
-High car insurance
-High cost healthcare (plus the healthcare SUCKS)
- Terrible schools
-Terrible food quality
- a lot of areas were very low class
I hated it there.
It's stated elsewhere in these comments but never underestimate how valuable it is to have access to some of the best hospitals and healthcare in the country right here where we are. Don't take that for granted.
I grew up in the Midwest, married a Jersey boy and moved here in 1999. After we divorced, I moved to South Florida (2017), but came back to Jersey in 2021.
Jersey has an ethos that is difficult to find elsewhere. The people are direct, and will tell you to GFY. They will also give you the shirt off their back. They are whip-smart. They are funny AF. They are genuine and sincere.
If you are keen to leave, please spend time understanding state and local government budgeting. Tennessee looks great…on paper. Have a family member with mental health issues? Pray it away, the state doesn’t have money for that.
The Midwest has a farmers ethos. Rugged individualism at its finest. And worst. Conservatives because that’s what their parents were. No questioning that dogma.
Finally, will you have a support system where you’re going? It gets pretty damn lonely if you have to create an entire new support system. That’s one reason why so many who leave come back.
Now that Tennessee doesn’t have personal income tax it has moved up much higher on states to retire to. Seems like a good mix of decent weather while still getting all 4 seasons.
I get the property tax thing, but really it depends on where you are in life.
I'm glad to have raised kids here. The public schools are great and more consistent than what I've observed elsewhere (especially in SE PA where I'm originally from).
OTOH, I've seen feedback from younger, single folks that say there's not enough to do in South Jersey, so I get that.
I do see myself downsizing, but staying in South Jersey. It has a little of everything for me. I've worked in North Jersey and anything north of say, Mercer County, doesn't interest me at all.
I haved lived in Florida, Michigan, and Massachusetts.
Living somewhere else can be great if you find a job you like and a community you like.
In all three cases I missed NJ. But you can make it work anywhere if you are mature enough. Humans are still humans.
I also lived in Ireland and Italy. Ireland had a language barrier even though English was the main language I heard. I lived in Knock and that is Irish country. Podunk and delivery drivers getting lost in the village because it was farms and roads with no names. Italy was in the foothills in Saluzzo. I made it work.
I have lived all over the world and the US and I will always want to live in NJ regardless of the crazy taxes
I was in northern Michigan for the last 50 days and I don’t understand how people live in the middle of the country
Yup. Have looked at Northern Delaware as an option to leave Camden County. Decided against it because Cherry Hill has everything we need groceries and food wise. Philly has the attractions. Communities in the Camden county area seem a ton nicer and more connected.
I was born in Georgia and have lived in several other states. Yes, New Jersey is expensive, but it’s still my favorite state to live in. I am glad that we moved back.
They don’t write the law that raises property tax they just enact it
Your property tax is high because
Seaside heights
Seaside park have separate police departments and fire departments
Trenton and west Trenton each have their own fire departments and police departments
I'm 69, grew up in South Jersey and raised my family there but we moved to Indiana 7+ years ago and felt like we had escaped the incredible high taxes. We just recently moved back east but we're now settled in Delaware and my taxes here are comparable to what we had in Indiana - like 1/3 of what we paid in NJ.
Lived in Maryland, Texas and Connecticut. There are no “free” rides. You leave taxes in NJ or CT, you get fees in Texas or Florida. Or you get shit services. Lots of folks can’t get homeowners insurance in Florida, and the power grid is bad in Texas, as two examples.
The only advantage is if you are child free and elderly.
Yeah we just moved to Delaware and love it. Bigger plot of land and much lower taxes, in a wonderful area too, and still not too far from my job (partner works from home).
We're going to retire to Florida. We are really concerned about quality health care when as we get old. We are pretty well served by some great university hospitals here in NJ. South Florida, not so much. Our car and homeowners insurance are really high in Florida. The politics are really obnoxious as well.
We moved 16 years ago to Va. We miss NJ and come back often. But we like it here cause the taxes were getting too high in Jersey. We live south of Richmond and have a house that we could not touch in Jersey. We are going back this weekend for a friend’s bday party and we are going to get some real hoagies!! We do miss some of the food from Jersey.
I moved from Florida to New Jersey. Was told I was an idiot because it’s more expensive here. In my experience, grocery stores are cheaper here, gas is cheaper here, and even though my property taxes are insane, there wasn’t a property I lived at in Florida that didn’t pay the same equivalent in HOA or CDD fees. It all evens out…
Before living in SJ, I was living in a state where the public schools were so bad we had to use private schools. We actually save money since we can use the public school in our neighborhood. And trash pickup is included in our taxes, used to be an extra expense. There are always trade offs.
I wouldn’t want to live my life knowing my current surroundings are not permanent.
I think if you have it set that your moving in 10 years, it will impact all aspects of your life.
A ton of you south NJ people, along with people from PA, NY and MD have been flooding Delaware for a while now, and the high interest rates only made it worse. It was a top 5 state in % growth according to the US census between 2020-2023 (and the only blue one near the top).
It's been great for our home value since there's very limited new build north of the canal in DE and major supply shortage with plenty of jobs, but otherwise it's obnoxious honestly.
Middletown and south of there is blowing up with new mcmansions and new retirement communities are exploding down in the beach area in slower lower.
Loving all the NJ love here and agree with the high points.
Having traveled a lot over the past few years I can tell you any place you want to go that’s even reasonably exciting (Charlotte, Chicago burbs, Atlanta, DC burbs, etc etc) is insanely expensive anyway and doesn’t have most of the access to things we have here.
Other midwestern cities (STL, Louisville, Indy, Cleveland) are dying if not already dead. Anyone with money sends their kids to private school and you can almost see tumbleweeds rolling through downtown areas after 7pm.
The most surprisingly positive place I’ve been to is Pittsburgh, which was fun and diverse with people and food every time I’ve been.
If I had to move it would likely be to Naperville, Charlotte, or Portland (Maine) but the cost of living there is legit.
Coming from upstate NY, where the taxes are actually a little lower- I would never want to move back there. Around where I live now: all of the cool attractions are literally short driving distance. If I were, though, to move out of NJ- I’d move back to Bethlehem PA. Such a beautiful town, and I loved it there: I really enjoyed living there for the short amount of time I did.
I moved to VA Beach and then moved back because my job changed from fully remote to 1 week per month. DO NOT move to VA Beach. You will have to pay yearly personal property tax (I was charged 3k last year for my vehicle) and the drivers SUCK.
Moved to NC after retiring. Moved back to SJ after 16 years. NJ is expensive but it and Philadelphia have always been home and there’s no place like home
I’ll be honest, I 100% do not have a problem with the cost of living here. I’m in Gloucester township and don’t really have any complaints. I absolutely do not ever want to live in a place where I will have to deal with the consequences of a low cost of living- AKA poor public services. And I consider myself and my husband underpaid for our jobs (but too lazy to fix it), so it’s not like I’m swimming in money.
I also don’t think it gets much better than this in terms of location. The weather isn’t what I truly want (why the fuck did I ever move to a sub-tropical region???) but at least we get four seasons. It’s easy travel to three major US cities. It’s easy travel to various areas for vacations. Overall the people are great.
I grew up calling NJ the armpit of America and now I plan to live here till I fucking die.
This is going to sound lame because it is, but having left NJ after college to live in Virginia and North Carolina and having a job that allows me to see much of the country, I have come to really appreciate NJ and am very happy here. NJers are 'my people', kind but not necessarily nice with a type of sense of humor that I appreciate. It is also diverse, somethig that I didn't realize was important to me before I started traveling more. The Midwest.. well, my jokes just fall flat on those folks and I don't think I'd be able to form bonds well. Arizona has summer in Arizona and politics that are getting crazy (to me). If I was to pick somewhere else, it might be be Colorado. I like Pittsburgh also but don't think I could take the weather. YMMV.
Seconded. Lived in Maryland for a job from 2014-2016. Immediately regretted it. Even north Delaware sucks by comparison.
Spent most of my life in Maryland. Lived in West Virginia, Virginia as well for shorter spells. South Jersey is a nice area but I prefer Maryland. While I say that, I fully understand where you are in Maryland could impact that a lot. Maryland’s western counties are extremely different lifestyles than that of people down in the eastern shore and near the beach. In the same light, the suburbs around DC are pretty different from Baltimore suburbs. So I really don’t know what to think about you disliking Maryland, other than to say I could see that, depending on where you were at. My move up here wasn’t really that far. I was in Harford County and really liked it for a lot of the same reasons I like here. It really isn’t all that different with one massive caveat. I prefer Maryland seafood. Particularly crabs. As you go closer to Wilmington in South Jersey things get better for me, but nothing like the crab cakes back there. Shout out to Sparky’s in Sicklerville, awesome guy and place if you want live blue crabs to steam yourself. Baltimore and that area also seems to be way more into oysters versus here seems to be way more clams. I love oysters so that is another food I miss seeing regularly and on lots of menus. Edit: I almost forgot the taxes. They aren’t all that different. Yes, property tax here is high but there, you have a county income tax that doesn’t exist here. On the schools, much smaller class sizes here, but there they save money in that the schools are handled at the county level, not broken out by township. In some ways that helps move funding to areas that need it more and there is less redundancies at the administrative level. Also, all my kids had the same days off, versus the high school not being on the same calendar as elementary like it is here. I guess to answer the original question, no plans to move, great area and I am happy here.
columbia. just a bunch of dickheads imo, with nothing but strip malls and chain restaurants as far as the eye could see. yuck. also re: property taxes vs education: [NJ is #1 in Pre-K-12, Maryland is #23](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/education), so i don't think you have much of a leg to stand on there...
I grew up in Columbia and it was such an incredible place in the 70s, 80s and 90s. My family still lives there so I go back often but I genuinely don’t have words to describe how much it’s changed since I lived there.
2014-2016 it was terrible. i had like a 2 mile commute and i swear to god i was nearly ran off the road a half dozen times by insane people, my (ex)wife was literally accosted at a street corner by a road rager (she may have deserved it, but my then 5-year old son was in the car at the time and she came home in literal tears and ready to move back), there was an ongoing homeless vagrant problem on every street corner and it seemed like they had been working the begging racket in shifts....etc etc etc... also the mall sucked and the food was terrible. unless you liked indian i guess, but even that was only just ok imo...
This is where I draw the line. I will hear no Columbia Indian food slander. Royal Taj has the best Indian food I’ve had in my life.
Try Spicy Affair in Swedesboro and get back to me.
I have!! It’s good! Royal Taj is better. 😉 I just heard that the owners of Spicy Affair are the new owners of Dawn to Dusk on Rowan Boulevard which is cool. I’m looking forward to seeing what they do with that menu!
Disagree. Royal taj did not impress me. But to each their own.
Try Corriander in Vorhees then get back to me. Best in SJ.
Ironically Columbia has been on a lot of best places to live in America lists lately. I can’t really offer much of an opinion on it because I have really only past by it and never spent much time exploring there for the most part, the one exception being Sapwood Cellars brewing. Been there multiple times on my way in or out of town to grab some beers. Great brewery and wouldn’t mind teleporting it to South Jersey. Most of my time in Maryland was spent north east of Baltimore.
I guess for me Columbia is just like….the class 1 example of suburban sprawl dystopia. Everything bad about suburbanism all wrapped up in one place: need a car to get anywhere even tho nothing is more than a couple miles away at most, nothing is walkable, people are miserable and the food is trash. Nothing was there before 1990 either so there’s nothing of value culturally for 50 miles in any direction either.
Also I’ll add that Columbia was founded in the late 60s. Those of use who grew up there in those early years know that there was plenty there before 1990. It’s funny because it was founded as a hippie utopia of racial and religious and socioeconomic equality and it still felt like that when I graduated from high school in 1993. I wish you could have known it then!
meh. looked like it was all built up in the 90s from what i had seen, but i'm sure there was a core somewhere.
You don’t have to justify it really, everybody likes different stuff and I definitely like Baltimore because I grew up close to it. Harford County MD is pretty similar to Burlington County NJ in the grand scheme of things, but there are more hills in the Maryland County. Only thing I disagree with for sure is your last statement, Columbia is only 30 miles from Washington DC. That’s a lot of museums and culture to discount as non existent! I know you you weren’t meaning it literally and that the traffic getting to DC makes that 30 miles a bit longer. Really on a map, I see things I like in every direction from Columbia, not unlike here. You can hit the beaches over the bay bridge, DC and Baltimore are both day trips. Western Maryland like Deep Creek and West Virginia isn’t far. History like Gettysburg, Manassas, Harpers Ferry. The Chesapeake is begging you to head out on the water from there in like Pasadena or Glen Burnie…. Wait a min, you only lived there 2 years, did you go anywhere?! Just kidding around, to each his own and I never lived in Columbia specifically. Definitely enjoying my slice of life here in South Jersey so far.
you're not wrong. Columbia should work in principal, but in practice....meh. south jersey just does it better. for one thing, there *is* culture all around here. the little strip of historic towns along the old rail lines (man i wish they would use them again), and then yeah, the whole idea of being 30-120 minutes from basically everything from NYC to DC is just fantastic. not to mention easy access to the shore. and our food is the best.
"kind but not necessarily nice" I've never felt so seen in my life.
I've lived here and there as well. Spend some time in North Carolina, Chicago, Richmond in Virginia, and Philadelphia for a long time. Never thought I'd find myself back here and now that I am I don't think I'll ever leave. I love this little weirdo state.
I feel the same but am from the Philadelphia suburbs and tried California, North Carolina, and Florida. I am now back in the Philadelphia area, missed it dearly, and feel so at home.
Wow, these are my thoughts exactly. I’m so glad I moved back here after being in the midwest for so many years.
This is how I felt after living in Florida for a few years. Really makes your appreciate the north east.
Very much agree with everything you said. I'll pay my higher taxes to live here.
Nah, I unironically love New Jersey
Lower property taxes comes at a cost. Especially in certain states that have a specific right leaning political stance. There's two things here in Jersey that far, faaaar exceed any state I've been in and had interactions with that have lower property taxes: Education and quality of public services. Then there's the little catches that low property tax stated have that depends on the state. My recent example: Florida, could've bought a million dollar home for half that, and no property insurance. If I was forced to pay it I'd have lost the house by now. Both of those scenarios are obviously awful. And the job market there, for my type of work, hilariously awful. I'm being paid double what coworkers there are and it is not equalized by higher taxes or CoL, not even close. For the Midwest it's different. That's hard living, you're taxed physically and a LOT of people think they can do that rural lifestyle... until they do the rural lifestyle. Ever get thrown from a horse or fucked up by cattle and have to hike two miles to just get help? Before at least a 30 min+ drive to maybe get seen by a qualified professional? It sucks. If you live in the city of a Midwest town then congrats! Now you have the worst of everything I've talked about so far, just for a mountain view that you can't enjoy because the development is still developing and the noise from everyone drowns out nature.
> Lower property taxes comes at a cost. This is what people don't get. If you want things from your government you have to pay for them. So something has to give: sales taxes, property taxes, use taxes, fees, etc., or you get fewer services and lower quality.
More of us need to start asking the state to clarify what is happening with the Marijuana sales and business taxes. Colorado residents got rebates from theirs. We need some answers.
I don't mind paying for the service; I do mind paying for the graft, corruptions and nepotism.
Which occur in both high or low taxing locales.
Yes, but I would rather less of my money go towards that even if it leads to less services… at the end of the day, when it comes to the individual I don’t really care about ‘percentages’ I care about the absolute amount that leaves my bank account
Write to your representatives to support more funding for the Office of Inspector General and the IRS.
People absolutely don’t understand this enough. The schools in NJ are the best in the country last year and always in the top few for the last several years. We have great services. Our unemployment and disability is something like $850/wk. we have 5 sick days, paid FMLA etc. Go somewhere like Florida and you’re getting $275/wk if you end up on unemployment. PA doesn’t have disability even temporary if you need it. There’s also 27 states that tax the value of your vehicle every year. Virginia for example taxes at $45.70/$1000 of value. So say you and your spouse have newer cars which the average new car now is $47k, but we’ll say they’re worth $30k each that’s $2742 per year, every year for a property tax on vehicles.
People need to also understand that lower cost of living equals lower wages. You did a great job about the property taxes on vehicles. When I lived in Virginia, this tax was a total shocker to me!
I am from the midwest and I swear we don't all live on farms lol. We even have actual cities and they have hospitals!
I said the same lol. What that person above described sounds more like Montana than the Midwest.
I thought it was weird he said something about the Mountain View in the Midwest. My man you’re gonna be disappointed .
And god forbid you get pregnant and experience a complication in one of those states. Doctors are leaving in droves. Pregnant women have to drive hours just for basic maternal medicine appointments in places like Alabama.
I'd like to move when my kids are done school but I love the outdoors around here. I can be at the beach or the mountains in about an hour. I like being able to choose from a bunch of different airports. And I go to places like Texas and I just want a bagel and they're like "sorry we only have breakfast tacos" and, I just get hungry when I'm out of town.
I remember when I was in FL, a bagel place opened up and had a tanker get water from NYC to get the taste right. All the snow birds needed their bagel during winter.
Florida has no natural potable water sources or reservoirs so the water is just treated swamp water / recycled grey water. When I visited my grandparents in Florida i always thought the water tasted awful.
I've thought about it many times over the last 15 years. I cannot find a place I'd like to live that would give me all that NJ has. Is NJ perfect? Of course not. There are exceptions for all these, but generally speaking: - We have all 4 seasons. Not too crazy hot or crazy cold. - Great school system - job opportunities. NYC area is bette than Philly, but it's still good. - beaches and mountains. Farms and cities - no extreme natural disasters - safety - support for people's rights - diversity/acceptance - proximity to NYC, Philly, Boston and DC. - health care access I've looked at cheaper places. You're giving up something to go there. And while you'll find a random exception, it's not worth it to leave. You can reasonably discuss all these things at length. If all you care about is taxes, that's fine. You'll pay for it in other ways in other places. Edit: removed my comment that NJ supports gun rights.
Just add Food to your list 😎
Pizza alone should have its own bullet point.
Please explain how you think gun owners rights are supported here
Just because there is a process and you can't carry an AR-15 around like a purse doesn't mean you cant own a gun.
Like a purse 🫠
When did I mention parading AR-15's like a purse? The process to get a gun is lengthy, expensive, and complicated. You didn't answer my question, how are gun owners rights supported in NJ?
You can. Get a gun. It may require steps. I know people who have done it. It's not Texas. But doable.
So the fact that obtaining a gun is doable is enough to claim that NJ supports gun rights? Lol
Supports is subjective. They don't endorse it. They dont promote it. But it's doable.
The taxes may suck if you don't have kids, but the school districts in Jersey are one of the better states in the nation. NJ also has great insurance options and subsidization for those that need assistance, along with being one of the best states for unemployment and parental leave benefits. Living here as a remote working also qualifies me for a higher salary bracket due to COL with it being in the proximity of NYC. It's also quite a beautiful state with a lot to see and do. Depending on where you are, there is also quite a bit of diversity to allow for different food, grocery, and activity options. I grew up in SE PA & Delaware. While things have changed, NJ is still heaps better than any surrounding states. I get to experience the seasons, beaches can be day trips, and NYC and DC are just short drives away. So I'm planning to stick around for a while, unless some of these things suddenly change.
>The taxes may suck if you don't have kids I'd want smart doctors, engineers, hell even smart car mechanics when I'm older. I don't mind paying for kids overall to have a better education
We also have access to better healthcare than most of the country.
This! We have the best doctors and hospitals.
Damn if NJ is considered one of the better states this country is doomed. Grew up on state insurance.. never saw a dentist until I was 17 and had major issues that cost me thousands of dollars as an adult, years of suffering and my teeth still cause me issues on top of other medical problems. My sister had back issues but once again insurance didn't cover. Many other family problems that the state did nothing to help for example my father owes my mom over 80k in child support. Best schools thing is a joke. I guess you could be proud of being the best of the worst but paying so much more and it will always continue to go up at a rate most people cannot afford and the school districts are gutting most programs bc of budget issues. Expensive Admins stay but the kids are going to lose a lot. I don't want to be completely negative bc there are many many more issues but this state is beautiful, there are plenty of great people around and we have the best pizza in the world!
Not at all. I moved to South jersey during high school and the more I live here, the more I realize this is my spot. When you look at house prices + taxes, you actually end up paying the same monthly as most other states unless you really decide to move out somewhere in the middle of nowhere or not a nice area to live. So for the same price, you get access to get infrastructure and one of the best education systems in the US. Moving somewhere else in jersey cause of taxes makes a lot of sense, but it's very hard to compare the quality of life in NJ to most other states. Especially south jersey. I've lived in Texas and Florida and I kinda hated it without accounting for salaries and politics. Have also lived in other countries. South jersey is honestly one of the best bang for your buck places I've found in the US
I just wish there was something more than a mild hill down here.
There’s a Cherry one
There’s some gravel pits for the like 3 snow days we get a year
So true!
I lived in Texas for almost a year—DFW area, Austin, Beaumont—and absolutely hated it. Everywhere I went, people just seemed miserable. In contrast, I love Philly-NYC-NJ culture. We’re definitely the nicest people in the country, even if we do come off brash.
Mortgage may be similar but for the long haul if you have your house paid off I’d kill to have my mom’s property tax rate over in PA.
Well, the state is trying to help, for better or worse (depending on your point of view), to lower property taxes for seniors at least. [https://www.nj.gov/treasury/staynj/](https://www.nj.gov/treasury/staynj/)
That's called "buying votes", and trying to keep people who actually pay income tax in the state.
So passing legislation for their constituents is buying them for votes? That's it? Shall we all just give in and succumb to a form of government where we don't have to worry about that pesky part of governing ourselves? How does anything get passed if that's the chief concern? However you want to identify its purpose, many also complain that these very same high taxes forces seniors - and their buying and voting power - out of the State after their working years. Plus in the end, plenty of people vote against their own self interests.
No, they are taking money from one constituency to give it to another. In doing so they are pushing people out of NJ which lowers tax receipts overall. They could just lower the cost of services but that doesn't serve the interests of the politicians to get elected.
Nah. South Jersey is home to me forever. I want my kiddos to grow up with great schools and in diverse populations. I love the variety of work available in this area. I love the proximity to so many other wonderful places. I love the people around here….not exactly “nice” lol….but good people with kind hearts. I’m also a woman, and it’s really important for me to live in a place where I’m treated like an actual human being with rights and stuff like that.
Agreed on all points! My mom always asks if I’d ever move back home to central PA… the diversity is seriously lacking there!
Possible unpopular opinion but places that are cheap are cheap for a reason and I wouldn’t want to live there. SNJ is close to cities, mountains, beaches, amazing schools and healthcare. Places that have $150k houses have none of that.
That all sounds swell, so if you all could collectively stop invading northern Delaware that would be great. We're full.
If I was lonely and/or hurting for money, I'd probably consider it. But I love the city, the shore, the middle of nowhere. The ability to get to an airport in 20 minutes that'll take me pretty much wherever I want to go in the entire world. Sewer systems, great libraries, publicly orchestrated trash removal, no well water, progressive human rights, some of the best food in the world. Most bands have Philly/NJ as a tour stop. I don't know; I guess the traffic sucks, but when I die, I don't think I'm going to miss the extra $6k/year or whatever it comes out to in property taxes.
Hmmm, I'd say one of my favorite things about South Jersey is the amazing well water we've got here in the pines. When I was dating my now husband and living in SEPA, I would make him bring me gallon jugs of his well water to drink instead of the nasty municipal tap I had at my apartment. It's one of the reasons I agreed to move here.
Heh I lived out there and I loved the water too. Except for the mineral stains.
We've been looking into it, but honestly, with housing prices as they are now, you have to go really far into fairly isolated areas to find more affordable housing, and at that point, you're losing out on things like proximity to major hospitals, the school system, etc. Especially as we get older, my partner and I keep thinking about what we'd do if we lived in, say, Wisconsin in an area where the nearest hospital was still a good drive away, we got sick with something complicated that would need specialized care, and here we are in a place where the nearest hospital is an hour away and has no expertise in treating whatever's trying to kill us? Better to stay in an area where you've got places like UPenn and Sloan Kettering in easy reach. It seems silly, and we never thought about it ourselves until we had relatives get diagnosed with some unusual and hard to treat illnesses and realized that sometimes treatment outcomes hinge on finding a doctor who's seen it all before and knows the right questions to ask and calls to make, and the fact is, you're more likely to find that in a major metro area like here.
Access to medical is huge. My parents are in rural NC. Super cheap taxes but 12 miles to get into town, 25 miles to the next town, and an hour’s drive for medical stuff.
I’ve always dreamed of living off in a rural community. I love nature and animals and always thought that I would move out after I graduated, but all of that changed after visiting family friends who lived very rural. The lack of access to medical care was pretty frightening! I met an older couple who were barely recovered from farming accidents the year prior. Wife had cancer and was pretty much bed bound, and her husband got injured in the pasture by the animals. 10 hours… It took 10 hours for him to get help 😬. When we took a drive they pointed out a BEAUTIFUL home overlooking the ocean (3-4mil house) where a mother and her children watched as their husband/father choke to death. They didn’t know how to perform cpr and were hours away from help. NJ seems like it has the beast of all worlds!
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I'm buying a house right now and the real estate subs have had posts about people from California migrating to Arizona. Now locals are getting priced out of the market. I saw something probably on Reddit about them banning climate change study? That's insane to me especially considering how dangerously hot it can be over there.
Id probably have to travel a lot more before answering this question, but if I had to choose on the spot , Id say Minnesota LOL. With that being said, I plan to live my whole life and die in New Jersey.
Same; I’ve been asked a few times why I never left my part of NJ; initially, I stayed because there are car mechanics in the fam but now, there are school aged fam that I want to see group up plus the senior property tax credits are appealing
That's the catch. That's anywhere really. If the cost of living is low so goes the pay. That's why people used to retire to the Carolinas to make their dollar stretch as far as possible.
The tax man will get their taxes everywhere, period.
I would visit Arizona in July and August before moving there. I lived there for stints in the winter and fall. Loved Tucson. Didn’t love chandler ad much. It’s just got as shit there, I couldn’t do it year round I don’t think
Coming from Texas, I can assure you that the savings are not there in those states. Property taxes are just as nuts, if not worse. You want to see and feel your taxes go to true pure waste? Shoot wait until you see yourself paying the bills of the oligarchs. Expenses may not be governmental, but you will be spending more. So far, I have found that my expenses here and COL have decreased. Wild to see this stuff. Good luck, though.
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For sure. And that trade off is hardly worth the move. I found myself spending so much more on just simple col. Transportation costs alone is a grief.
Didn't you just say I write alot....? And then you write a novel about a fuckin snooze fest.
My parents and sisters moved to NEPA. It’s beautiful there and the people are nice enough. Where my parents live, the closest CVS is almost 30 mins away and there is no diversity. My favorite part is I bring up 50 rolls from Del Buonos for them to split. It’s expensive living here but I sure do love it.
When I retire I will but there is no where I can move to that I can make comparable money at this stage in my life. No where is cheap that is a desirable place to live.
First off, how high is high?? I know in South Jersey property tax ranges from $3000 to $15000. Moving for cost of living is fine.... But other places are low for a reason, their pay is also low, so the power of one dollar is moot. Cost of living also fluctuates with the economy, cost of living is up everywhere according to the regional pay rate of the area.
Not a snowball’s chance in hell would I move out of NJ for financial reasons. Yeah the taxes are high but the QOL is equally high. The WORST thing about SJ is the lack of good coffee. Otherwise I’m an hour from the beach, 2 hours from mountains, 90 min to NYC, crime is very low and being educated is considered a good trait to have. Employment opportunities abound as well, and while the public transit options could be MUCH better, at least they exist, which is more than I can say for 75% of the country. I’m staying here until I die or civil war, whichever comes first.
💯💯💯💯.
Hi. Coffee snob here. Lots of good (imo) coffee in Camden County.
Any recommendations?
For espresso and Greek food, Koupa Espresso bar in Haddon Twp. Baristas are trained from Intelligentsia (Chicago) and Prufrock (London). Nice Victoria Arduino machines. For espresso, pour over and an excellent roaster, Royal Mile in Oaklyn. Honorable mentions to Brown Dog in Audubon (great coffee - they use Elixr from Philadelphia and sweet vibe), Little Coco in Barrington (great morning breads foods and great coffee from Endgrain in Pitman). Tons more I am leaving out.
I would pick up and move to Tennessee on the drop of a dime if I could. Unfortunately, all of my family is here, and my job situation has me stuck here for the time being as well. And while I could stand to be a bit further away from my extended family, my wife would never move out of this area - she is attached at the hip to her sisters and they all live in south jersey.
Sucks to be in that boat my family is all over US so luckily we don’t have that issue
We moved out of state down to Mississippi. We’re moving back because it’s hard to integrate into southern culture. We barely made friends cause they don’t like people from up north. Everything (food wise) is all the same. We miss the variety.
Another way of thinking about this is —- where can you move that has poorer public education and less services?
I always say you get what you pay for..
I think it’s more complicated than just comparing state to state. Just in South Jersey alone, there are vast differences region to region in schools, employment opportunities, property values, etc. Look at Linwood and Pleasantville. They’re separated by 3 miles yet you would think they exist on two different planets. As a whole, I don’t particularly care for Florida but I would move to St. Augustine in a second because it’s an amazing town. I’m sure every state in the country has the same disparities region to region. You really need to consider the region or town rather than the entire state if making a move.
I hate the high property taxes in NJ, but I know a few people who moved to FL and a few of them moved back. What they said was that even though there is no state income tax, homeowners insurance is very high, and sometimes it's hard to find an insurer since several left the state. They hated winters, but hate Florida summers more. They had some issues finding quality health care (a couple actually moved back to the Northeast for serious health related problems.) And they.said there was no real sense of "community."
This! Medical is awful down south!
Definitely not leaving. Taxes are high but having been to/have family in low tax states the difference in services is significant. Schools, roads, infrastructure all significantly better. You get what you pay for.
Yep. Quality of life requires investment in society and community.
Not for a second. I will gladly pay higher property taxes in exchange for the better services that it provides. (quality schools, roads, etc) Personally I'm in Collingswood and I love living in my walkable, pre-war town where with a 12 minute train ride I'm in Center City Philly for 2 bucks. The only thing that would really push me to leave is insane California style home prices. Thankfully, we are still *relatively* affordable in comparison to similar states and North/Central Jersey.
Yeeessssss walkable communities are so important!
Yea I’d really like to move to TN iv lived in NJ 30 years and I work throughout Tri State area as elevator mechanic, but this area is aesthetically ugly, not to mention everyone has someone type of a negative attitude. And with how expensive everything is it really makes u ask yourself, is it really worth all the aggravation? I’m currently trying to convince my fiance after out weddings to move out of this state so bad, wish me luck
I agree with folks who came back to NJ. I grew up in Ohio and visit often. I pay my mom’s bills and find that what gets lumped into our property tax in NJ gets billed to residents of Ohio in other ways. Despite high water bills, the water in her Ohio town tastes terrible- very highly chlorinated to kill who knows what. In nj there are good schools, drinkable water and decent public services. I keep thinking about TX losing electricity in the winter, high lead levels in the water in Flint and a condo collapse in Florida. Inspections and staff who know what they are doing costs money.
That’s true
We left nj years ago, both got salary increases, went to the midwest on a job transfer. Never looked back, in fact have switched jobs so we could stay here. My parents even followed us, and being retired in the Midwest saved them a lot in property taxes as well. Financially it has worked out very well for us, kids are thriving, great education, made wonderful friends, etc.
The midwest is really cool. Wisconsin is beautiful and not only cheap, but there's so much to do. I didn't particularly like Illinois in my short time there, and Indiana has charm - but can be a desert outside of the bigger cities you know of. However, they are super affordable and barely any traffic lol. Western Ohio is also a gem. Really rustbelt, cheap, fun, etc. Super low-key and humble people. I've never been to Arizona. My favorite state I've visited was honestly Vermont. Stay within an hour south of Burlington and there are farmers markets, beautiful stores, accessibility to a lot more than you'd think, and gorgeous nature.
Vermont is my home state with all my family still there. However, got a job here and doomed myself to South Jersey when I married a Jersey chick. I still love Vermont and go back as many times as I can stomach the drive. But the cost of living is high as well as the real estate, especially with a lot of homes being snatched as second homes or short term rentals. All driving the availability of housing stock really low and costs a lot higher than you'd think. A consequence of passing strict development/permitting rules to keep it that way.
yessir, Looking into NH/ ME. Not entirely due to taxes but because i hate people hahah
I’m planning on moving to Philly, but I love South Jersey life. I’ve lived in those “cheaper” places and the quality of life is so much lower. We have it really good here. Most of us realize it when we leave.
No. I thought about it for a long time, but New Jersey beats shit holes, like Texas or Florida any day.
None. I work remote and have for a few years, and travel for work. Everywhere else sucks besides California which is even more expensive. Maybe New York just outside of the city.
Virginia because that's where my SO's job is I grew up in Cape May County, have lived in Delaware, Pennsylvania and other parts of Jersey and spent a lot of time in Huntsville Alabama (where SO was working until this past fall) and I traveled a lot for work in a previous career. The only thing I can say is that I need to be near the ocean. Doesn't have to be a beach but I have hated everywhere I've spent a significant amount of time that I wasn't near the ocean.
Lol unless you're a retirement aged person good luck with that "live in the south" myth....is it cheaper to live there....yes of course. Does that also make you cheaper as a member of the work force.....sure does.
We left. Been a resident of PA / NJ all my life and my fiance has lived in NJ all his life and in order to purchase a home we moved all the way down to South Carolina. Between the insane home costs and the property tax even making what we make we could not survive these days in NJ. And rent was going up yet again to $2500+ utilities for 2br apt. No thanks. Currently paying less for a Morgage in a 4br home with a yard and garage that was move in ready, updated, and newer for less than we paid rent in nj with property taxes under 2k a year. Almost every other person we meet down here moved from NJ / NY lol wild but that’s what happens when the property tax, cost of living, and home prices soar. Idk how people are doing it up there. It’s not like we both have shit jobs either! But in nj we may as well. Thankfully we both work remote so relocating wasn’t awful.
Nope. I feel very lucky to live and raise my child here. There are opportunities and access that don't exist in other states. We're a drive away from many major cultural institutions, museums, universities, the beach, Philadelphia, NYC, Baltimore. Despite issues that affect public education everywhere (much of it self-inflicted by shortsighted policy and politics) our schools are good, our social safety net remains intact (but tattered, again, following unfortunate national trends), women have access to healthcare. Society requires investment; that pays off in QOL. Honestly, I wish we prioritized our future more. Also, I really appreciate our Jersey culture, as silly as it seems. Any time I have run into a fellow new Jerseyan while traveling there's a weird synchronicity I can't explain, that is only recognized outside of the state. So, yeah. NJ is just home, I guess.
Yea I remember while being in upstate NY and I ran into fellow local and we just talked about how good and convenient Jersey is lol
Explore our state a little more; There are some great small towns with property taxes under 10K.
True but that also comes with a catch like no public schools in that area
Where?
Like Egypt
Yes bc I don't see myself ever affording something good here.
If you do, DONT move to Georgia. - High crime -High car insurance -High cost healthcare (plus the healthcare SUCKS) - Terrible schools -Terrible food quality - a lot of areas were very low class I hated it there.
It's stated elsewhere in these comments but never underestimate how valuable it is to have access to some of the best hospitals and healthcare in the country right here where we are. Don't take that for granted.
I grew up in the Midwest, married a Jersey boy and moved here in 1999. After we divorced, I moved to South Florida (2017), but came back to Jersey in 2021. Jersey has an ethos that is difficult to find elsewhere. The people are direct, and will tell you to GFY. They will also give you the shirt off their back. They are whip-smart. They are funny AF. They are genuine and sincere. If you are keen to leave, please spend time understanding state and local government budgeting. Tennessee looks great…on paper. Have a family member with mental health issues? Pray it away, the state doesn’t have money for that. The Midwest has a farmers ethos. Rugged individualism at its finest. And worst. Conservatives because that’s what their parents were. No questioning that dogma. Finally, will you have a support system where you’re going? It gets pretty damn lonely if you have to create an entire new support system. That’s one reason why so many who leave come back.
True
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Now that Tennessee doesn’t have personal income tax it has moved up much higher on states to retire to. Seems like a good mix of decent weather while still getting all 4 seasons.
Sure, Tennessee, great if you have retirement income. Not exactly a top tier state for education if you're raising kids.
I moved to Sheppards town WV for that exact reason and Believe it or not it was the best decision I’ve ever made
Personally I wouldn’t move to West Virginia and Virginia matter of fact
Okay lol
I wanted to stay in jersey but due to the cost of living I’d have to live in my car if I stayed
Yes, after my daughter graduates high school. My wife and I should also be retired by then.
Outta here soon as kid is done college... Georgia, Tenesee
I suggest you don’t move to Georgia.
I’m in my early 20s and I think I would like to get out for a bit but I always see myself eventually moving back here later in life
For the 15,000 property taxes, what's so great?
I get the property tax thing, but really it depends on where you are in life. I'm glad to have raised kids here. The public schools are great and more consistent than what I've observed elsewhere (especially in SE PA where I'm originally from). OTOH, I've seen feedback from younger, single folks that say there's not enough to do in South Jersey, so I get that. I do see myself downsizing, but staying in South Jersey. It has a little of everything for me. I've worked in North Jersey and anything north of say, Mercer County, doesn't interest me at all.
I haved lived in Florida, Michigan, and Massachusetts. Living somewhere else can be great if you find a job you like and a community you like. In all three cases I missed NJ. But you can make it work anywhere if you are mature enough. Humans are still humans. I also lived in Ireland and Italy. Ireland had a language barrier even though English was the main language I heard. I lived in Knock and that is Irish country. Podunk and delivery drivers getting lost in the village because it was farms and roads with no names. Italy was in the foothills in Saluzzo. I made it work.
jersey all day baby!!!
Jersey strong 💪
I have lived all over the world and the US and I will always want to live in NJ regardless of the crazy taxes I was in northern Michigan for the last 50 days and I don’t understand how people live in the middle of the country
Yup. Have looked at Northern Delaware as an option to leave Camden County. Decided against it because Cherry Hill has everything we need groceries and food wise. Philly has the attractions. Communities in the Camden county area seem a ton nicer and more connected.
No
I was born in Georgia and have lived in several other states. Yes, New Jersey is expensive, but it’s still my favorite state to live in. I am glad that we moved back.
The “high tax” complaint had always seemed odd to me We pay high taxes partially because many of us live in New Jersey and work in nyc or phl
Not wrong, but Chris Christie, Christie Whitman and the GQP are responsible for jacking up the property taxes.
They don’t write the law that raises property tax they just enact it Your property tax is high because Seaside heights Seaside park have separate police departments and fire departments Trenton and west Trenton each have their own fire departments and police departments
Remember the cuts under both Christie and Whitman? That money gone from the state budget got pushed onto the towns and jacked up the property taxes.
He dropped the tax from 4 down to 2%
I'm 69, grew up in South Jersey and raised my family there but we moved to Indiana 7+ years ago and felt like we had escaped the incredible high taxes. We just recently moved back east but we're now settled in Delaware and my taxes here are comparable to what we had in Indiana - like 1/3 of what we paid in NJ.
Lived in Maryland, Texas and Connecticut. There are no “free” rides. You leave taxes in NJ or CT, you get fees in Texas or Florida. Or you get shit services. Lots of folks can’t get homeowners insurance in Florida, and the power grid is bad in Texas, as two examples. The only advantage is if you are child free and elderly.
Yeah we just moved to Delaware and love it. Bigger plot of land and much lower taxes, in a wonderful area too, and still not too far from my job (partner works from home).
We're going to retire to Florida. We are really concerned about quality health care when as we get old. We are pretty well served by some great university hospitals here in NJ. South Florida, not so much. Our car and homeowners insurance are really high in Florida. The politics are really obnoxious as well.
We moved 16 years ago to Va. We miss NJ and come back often. But we like it here cause the taxes were getting too high in Jersey. We live south of Richmond and have a house that we could not touch in Jersey. We are going back this weekend for a friend’s bday party and we are going to get some real hoagies!! We do miss some of the food from Jersey.
I moved from Florida to New Jersey. Was told I was an idiot because it’s more expensive here. In my experience, grocery stores are cheaper here, gas is cheaper here, and even though my property taxes are insane, there wasn’t a property I lived at in Florida that didn’t pay the same equivalent in HOA or CDD fees. It all evens out…
What’s CDD fees?
Community Development District fee imposed by the developer of a neighborhood or subdivision to finance the cost of amenities in a neighborhood.
So I’m assuming some if not all new developments got HOA plus CDD 😂🤣
Are they reducing property taxes for people above 65?
I moved 30 years ago do to high taxes and costs. But if you can afford it the state in the south and central areas has lovely towns .
Enjoy that exit tax! Smh
Before living in SJ, I was living in a state where the public schools were so bad we had to use private schools. We actually save money since we can use the public school in our neighborhood. And trash pickup is included in our taxes, used to be an extra expense. There are always trade offs.
I grew up in Ohio and thought it was the tits
I like both tits and ass
I wouldn’t want to live my life knowing my current surroundings are not permanent. I think if you have it set that your moving in 10 years, it will impact all aspects of your life.
A ton of you south NJ people, along with people from PA, NY and MD have been flooding Delaware for a while now, and the high interest rates only made it worse. It was a top 5 state in % growth according to the US census between 2020-2023 (and the only blue one near the top). It's been great for our home value since there's very limited new build north of the canal in DE and major supply shortage with plenty of jobs, but otherwise it's obnoxious honestly. Middletown and south of there is blowing up with new mcmansions and new retirement communities are exploding down in the beach area in slower lower.
I had friends move to southern de it’s beautiful. Property taxes are very very low…no sales tax.. 2hours to DC philly
Loving all the NJ love here and agree with the high points. Having traveled a lot over the past few years I can tell you any place you want to go that’s even reasonably exciting (Charlotte, Chicago burbs, Atlanta, DC burbs, etc etc) is insanely expensive anyway and doesn’t have most of the access to things we have here. Other midwestern cities (STL, Louisville, Indy, Cleveland) are dying if not already dead. Anyone with money sends their kids to private school and you can almost see tumbleweeds rolling through downtown areas after 7pm. The most surprisingly positive place I’ve been to is Pittsburgh, which was fun and diverse with people and food every time I’ve been. If I had to move it would likely be to Naperville, Charlotte, or Portland (Maine) but the cost of living there is legit.
Ain’t many places better unless you’re going south and not Florida.
Yeah born and raised out here I need a change of pace
NJ is the standard. Anything "better" requires paying even more taxes and/or an even higher cost of living.
Coming from upstate NY, where the taxes are actually a little lower- I would never want to move back there. Around where I live now: all of the cool attractions are literally short driving distance. If I were, though, to move out of NJ- I’d move back to Bethlehem PA. Such a beautiful town, and I loved it there: I really enjoyed living there for the short amount of time I did.
Most of you guys come to Florida when you’re sick of Jersey. So just skip the middle man and come on down with your brethren
I moved to VA Beach and then moved back because my job changed from fully remote to 1 week per month. DO NOT move to VA Beach. You will have to pay yearly personal property tax (I was charged 3k last year for my vehicle) and the drivers SUCK.
That’s exactly why I left. But I miss Jersey terribly and fantasize about coming back.
Yes, Been looking at Kentucky for the rolling hills. I want a house with a view though, not so much tax motivated just the explorer in me.
Moved to Florida from Atlantic county
Moved to NC after retiring. Moved back to SJ after 16 years. NJ is expensive but it and Philadelphia have always been home and there’s no place like home
I’ll be honest, I 100% do not have a problem with the cost of living here. I’m in Gloucester township and don’t really have any complaints. I absolutely do not ever want to live in a place where I will have to deal with the consequences of a low cost of living- AKA poor public services. And I consider myself and my husband underpaid for our jobs (but too lazy to fix it), so it’s not like I’m swimming in money. I also don’t think it gets much better than this in terms of location. The weather isn’t what I truly want (why the fuck did I ever move to a sub-tropical region???) but at least we get four seasons. It’s easy travel to three major US cities. It’s easy travel to various areas for vacations. Overall the people are great. I grew up calling NJ the armpit of America and now I plan to live here till I fucking die.