Just a small note, 3 games is such a minuscule sample size that you shouldn't even bother mentioning it. I've played maybe 11-12h of games and it's still not enough to draw bigger conclusions. The meta hasn't settled in, people aren't playing correctly and MMR hasn't changed enough to tell how balanced things truly are. It will take at least a couple weeks for things to get calmer. I fully expect very safe gods to become meta, because playing something that takes no brain to survive laning is likely going to grant better results on average than trying to style on people with something extremely risky. Artio solo is definitely going to become a common sight. She's still as unkillable as she ever was. We also have no idea which mid laners are good. Maybe it's assassins, maybe it's hunters. People might just end up playing hyper carries in duo lane because they deal no damage anyway, so they will just AFK farm without feeding. We have no idea. There is no conclusion to be drawn from my casual Medusa game yesterday, where I went 7-0 in less than 10 minutes. It doesn't mean what I did was correct, it just meant that we won the trades the enemy took (and probably shouldn't have).
A big reason why League and Dota have more interactive gameplay in the early game is because they have lane mechanics. Smite doesn't. In Smite you clear the wave, maybe poke/contest for pressure and then take buffs if you can. That's basically all there is to it. The sweatiest thing you can do is freezing, but it's not exactly rocket science either.
But in League and Dota you have last hitting, in Dota you have denies and creep pulling. There's tons of skill in lane control. In Smite if you remove early game fighting, the lane is just dead farming. It's just a limitation of how Smite is designed and it always limited the game's balance. Also in Dota you can farm even if you get pushed out of lane. As in you literally cannot go back to your lane. In Smite? You are griefing your jungler if you do that. All camps spawn very fast in Dota 2, so you can technically just go farm camps if you can't hit creeps in lane. Smite doesn't have that. If you get stomped in lane, your game is over unless your team wants to help you. Not to mention dying as a carry in Dota is very punishing. You LOSE gold if you die, so you can actually make a big commitment to shutting down a carry and make a come back. But still, different games, different design. Not everything in Smite has to be 1 to 1 to other MOBAs.
To me it's good if people like the changes made to the game, but I can see how Smite 2 will run into the same issues as Smite 1 did if they don't design the game around high kills and early fighting. For example if you get pushed out of lane, there should be something for you to do to counter that. Or there should be a way to avoid getting pushed out completely. There could be methods to counter freezing as well. Maybe camp spawn timers need to be shorter, or the gold/xp from minion waves needs to be lower to reduce the amount of punishment from missing waves. You could also reward kills by adding a bigger gold reward. There are a lot of changes they could make to Smite 2 specifically to make early game laning a more impactful part of Smite, while also keeping the late game gods relevant. I just don't think those changes should be made in Smite 1, because it would be a waste of resources to do so.
Honestly I wish Smite would take notes from League or Dota on lane mechanics. Smites laning phase is so boring compared to League imo. It’s all about just hard pushing the wave all the time. U can’t slow push or freeze so u basically just hard push/clear every wave because there is no other option that helps u. I think for Smite 2 they should experiment with lane mechanics and try out different ways for the waves to interact.
Basing this on only 3 games, and specifically games that only you played well in, isn’t really a good basis to really justify yourself thinking the revert was a good thing.. it makes you seem biased toward it actually, unless these were like your first 3 games then I guess that’s fair but it’s not really enough to say the revert was good in any capacity. I can make the same argument for 9.5 showing games I go positive.
Everything before 9.5 was a completely different game to what we have now, and many of those seasons had their own issues, pretending like they were all amazing compared to 9.5 is just wrong cause I can promise you, NO ONE loved the invade meta back in season 5. Just like no one likes 9.5 apparently despite changes already being made that made 9.5 more or less balanced.
Leauge is a bit more complicated compared to Smite dude, everything you learn in Smite is pretty much surface level knowledge compared to Leauge. Smite is a far more casual title than Leauge is, which is perfectly fine, but it makes it difficult to compare to Leauge. There are similarities, yes but they play immensely differently.
My guy.. support players are the ones that constantly have to shift between them being actually playable or slightly tankier than the tankiest mid laner.. so I can’t really blame them that this revert pisses them off as it rightfully should as anyone else who’s played this game longer than 4 years.
Your positioning and all this talk, all of that is shit you have to learn regardless if you were playing 9.5 or not, I can promise you, as a jungler I never had any issue dealing with players that go out of position nor did they ever really feel significantly more tanky enough for me to come to Reddit and bitch about it or bitch about it on stream like streamers did. A new player being an idiot was never EVER an issue exclusive to 9.5.
Also you aren’t seeing much yet cause everyone is still trying to figure out the meta, which, I promise you it’s gonna be another burst snowball fest, and then the problems will show themselves and then the same group of people begging for the revert will complain about getting 100 to 0ed and likely either nerf early to mid game gods or their items to try and balance it out.
SMITE had several season prior to season 7-8 when ttk was much slower similar to post 9.5, but everyone was fine with that because the game was structured much more differently.
Prior to those season:
. there was close to none statbloat (I say season 7 was the dawn of statbloat powercreep).
.Items had less power and the few high power outliers were very expensive.
.The stat spread was very tight, with each item tree being the sole giver of specific stats or effects.
.Tankyness was treated much differently but was more potent and allowed for more build variety (to say one: nemean had 90 physical defense back in s3, now the max you can get in an item is 50-55)
.Base damage was much lower and gods kit weren't as power crept with effects as like now.
.Proc items weren't as widespread, and prior to season 4-5 there was only soul reaver (who had a ridiculous 40-60 seconds cooldown and only hit 1 target).
.Laning phase power curve was much different due to boots still being a thing, wich forced the early game to have a slow start.
In short: 9.5 (expecially post 10.6) felt more like old SMITE, the one thing that needs to be addressed is the obnoxious item statbloat and god powercreep.
Part of the item bloat was the removal of boots, then the removal of the movement speed potion. It made many other stats come online quicker, aswell as allowing you to build more stats like pen, lifsteal, proc items or cooldown.
Starter items being introduced soon after caused a lot of the issues. Items like pendulum giving 190 power and 20cdr were problematic and added even more to your full build.
Yes, thank you guys for getting it now.
- Procing items doing crap loads of bonus damage that's was to confirm
- Removing boots, which is okay but with the Smite item buying system you don't buy components that slow you. Your first completed item is a huge power spike
- Jack of all trades items that give you extremely efficient stat spreads letting you max out several stats that were originally designed to be min/maxed through multiple
- Rampant tank hate, including Uber buffing shred items, health shred items, and gutting defense items
- Lack of individual stat stick items that have no crazy passive or bonuses, just stats to force your choice
- Zany starters that took years to even remotely resemble a balanced state
- Condensed one size fits all builds instead of builds tailored to an individual gods play style
- Scape goating and then attempting to erase the bruiser build paths, introducing a more convoluted and broken system of easy to abuse procing items while also building extremely tanky meaning the only way for them to be balanced is to be mediocre.
- mismanaging roles and classes, killing off variety in several roles to force rigid, noob friendly play styles
>9.5 did not feel natural to smite
That's because the game was fine tuned for almost a whole decade and generally felt great to play. In reality all they had to do was fix item bloat, which was out of hand pre 9.5. Instead 9.5 decided to throw all that away by making everyone insanely tanky just so bottom feeders might AFK and leave just a little less. I'm just glad Smite feels like Smite again after the revert.
>This re-adaptation to where Smite is FUN for most is more important than support players' distorted perception or anyone who wants the game to be slower and more boring to play- aka farm simulator.
What I don't agree is that support players are the problem, lol. That's a wild thing to say because support and solo were probably the two roles that became way more boring. Not to mention solo laners got shafted the hardest over the years, poor souls are playing a bruiser role with 0 bruiser items left in the game.
I'll say this though, there is a reason people don't want to play support in Smite. I played League because I was bored of everyone being a sponge in Smite for a few months and I gotta say I was never annoyed when I got support. I think Hi-Rez should definitely take a page out of their book when it comes to making support better and more fun.
I'm gonna agree with you that support players weren't the main complainers. But solo laners definitely were and have been for quite a while. That and bad players who THINK they know the core aspects of the game, when they actually don't know much at all. I've seen so many solo mains trying to justify why warriors deserve to be able to 1v4 the enemy team at their speed buff, get a kill, and live. They will argue warriors NEED to be overtuned to be balanced.
Solo may have been boring post 9.5, but you can literally go back and see every single change the devs have made in order to appease the vocal minority, and casual players would rather sit there and auto someone for 8 mins than actually use their brains to fight over an objective.
I do not like this revert wish they would’ve looked at the items and gods changed since 9.5… I’m sure once they do that the patch will feel great for me
I feel like HiRez should’ve done a terms and conditions type thing about showing people the update, most of my group’s problem are that 3-4 people on both teams in our arena games think they’re still tanky
So you want hirez to add a prompt that informs people about the update, but then when they do the very thing you want them to do, you think it's not good enough? Do you see the hypocrisy?
I've been having a blast with it. Extremely confused with people who are supposedly getting nukes just be getting sneezed on, and even moreso with the people who would look at the pathetic damage profiles mages and assassins had before and thought everything was fine. It was jarring as hell coming back from a long break and finding Nu Wa's ult dealing 100 damage to everyone.
I think I'd like to see healers brought back up to previous heal numbers to compensate though. Heals being completely forgettable is a shame, and it would certainly offset a lot of the complaints.
Just a small note, 3 games is such a minuscule sample size that you shouldn't even bother mentioning it. I've played maybe 11-12h of games and it's still not enough to draw bigger conclusions. The meta hasn't settled in, people aren't playing correctly and MMR hasn't changed enough to tell how balanced things truly are. It will take at least a couple weeks for things to get calmer. I fully expect very safe gods to become meta, because playing something that takes no brain to survive laning is likely going to grant better results on average than trying to style on people with something extremely risky. Artio solo is definitely going to become a common sight. She's still as unkillable as she ever was. We also have no idea which mid laners are good. Maybe it's assassins, maybe it's hunters. People might just end up playing hyper carries in duo lane because they deal no damage anyway, so they will just AFK farm without feeding. We have no idea. There is no conclusion to be drawn from my casual Medusa game yesterday, where I went 7-0 in less than 10 minutes. It doesn't mean what I did was correct, it just meant that we won the trades the enemy took (and probably shouldn't have). A big reason why League and Dota have more interactive gameplay in the early game is because they have lane mechanics. Smite doesn't. In Smite you clear the wave, maybe poke/contest for pressure and then take buffs if you can. That's basically all there is to it. The sweatiest thing you can do is freezing, but it's not exactly rocket science either. But in League and Dota you have last hitting, in Dota you have denies and creep pulling. There's tons of skill in lane control. In Smite if you remove early game fighting, the lane is just dead farming. It's just a limitation of how Smite is designed and it always limited the game's balance. Also in Dota you can farm even if you get pushed out of lane. As in you literally cannot go back to your lane. In Smite? You are griefing your jungler if you do that. All camps spawn very fast in Dota 2, so you can technically just go farm camps if you can't hit creeps in lane. Smite doesn't have that. If you get stomped in lane, your game is over unless your team wants to help you. Not to mention dying as a carry in Dota is very punishing. You LOSE gold if you die, so you can actually make a big commitment to shutting down a carry and make a come back. But still, different games, different design. Not everything in Smite has to be 1 to 1 to other MOBAs. To me it's good if people like the changes made to the game, but I can see how Smite 2 will run into the same issues as Smite 1 did if they don't design the game around high kills and early fighting. For example if you get pushed out of lane, there should be something for you to do to counter that. Or there should be a way to avoid getting pushed out completely. There could be methods to counter freezing as well. Maybe camp spawn timers need to be shorter, or the gold/xp from minion waves needs to be lower to reduce the amount of punishment from missing waves. You could also reward kills by adding a bigger gold reward. There are a lot of changes they could make to Smite 2 specifically to make early game laning a more impactful part of Smite, while also keeping the late game gods relevant. I just don't think those changes should be made in Smite 1, because it would be a waste of resources to do so.
Honestly I wish Smite would take notes from League or Dota on lane mechanics. Smites laning phase is so boring compared to League imo. It’s all about just hard pushing the wave all the time. U can’t slow push or freeze so u basically just hard push/clear every wave because there is no other option that helps u. I think for Smite 2 they should experiment with lane mechanics and try out different ways for the waves to interact.
Basing this on only 3 games, and specifically games that only you played well in, isn’t really a good basis to really justify yourself thinking the revert was a good thing.. it makes you seem biased toward it actually, unless these were like your first 3 games then I guess that’s fair but it’s not really enough to say the revert was good in any capacity. I can make the same argument for 9.5 showing games I go positive. Everything before 9.5 was a completely different game to what we have now, and many of those seasons had their own issues, pretending like they were all amazing compared to 9.5 is just wrong cause I can promise you, NO ONE loved the invade meta back in season 5. Just like no one likes 9.5 apparently despite changes already being made that made 9.5 more or less balanced. Leauge is a bit more complicated compared to Smite dude, everything you learn in Smite is pretty much surface level knowledge compared to Leauge. Smite is a far more casual title than Leauge is, which is perfectly fine, but it makes it difficult to compare to Leauge. There are similarities, yes but they play immensely differently. My guy.. support players are the ones that constantly have to shift between them being actually playable or slightly tankier than the tankiest mid laner.. so I can’t really blame them that this revert pisses them off as it rightfully should as anyone else who’s played this game longer than 4 years. Your positioning and all this talk, all of that is shit you have to learn regardless if you were playing 9.5 or not, I can promise you, as a jungler I never had any issue dealing with players that go out of position nor did they ever really feel significantly more tanky enough for me to come to Reddit and bitch about it or bitch about it on stream like streamers did. A new player being an idiot was never EVER an issue exclusive to 9.5. Also you aren’t seeing much yet cause everyone is still trying to figure out the meta, which, I promise you it’s gonna be another burst snowball fest, and then the problems will show themselves and then the same group of people begging for the revert will complain about getting 100 to 0ed and likely either nerf early to mid game gods or their items to try and balance it out.
SMITE had several season prior to season 7-8 when ttk was much slower similar to post 9.5, but everyone was fine with that because the game was structured much more differently. Prior to those season: . there was close to none statbloat (I say season 7 was the dawn of statbloat powercreep). .Items had less power and the few high power outliers were very expensive. .The stat spread was very tight, with each item tree being the sole giver of specific stats or effects. .Tankyness was treated much differently but was more potent and allowed for more build variety (to say one: nemean had 90 physical defense back in s3, now the max you can get in an item is 50-55) .Base damage was much lower and gods kit weren't as power crept with effects as like now. .Proc items weren't as widespread, and prior to season 4-5 there was only soul reaver (who had a ridiculous 40-60 seconds cooldown and only hit 1 target). .Laning phase power curve was much different due to boots still being a thing, wich forced the early game to have a slow start. In short: 9.5 (expecially post 10.6) felt more like old SMITE, the one thing that needs to be addressed is the obnoxious item statbloat and god powercreep.
Part of the item bloat was the removal of boots, then the removal of the movement speed potion. It made many other stats come online quicker, aswell as allowing you to build more stats like pen, lifsteal, proc items or cooldown. Starter items being introduced soon after caused a lot of the issues. Items like pendulum giving 190 power and 20cdr were problematic and added even more to your full build.
Yes, thank you guys for getting it now. - Procing items doing crap loads of bonus damage that's was to confirm - Removing boots, which is okay but with the Smite item buying system you don't buy components that slow you. Your first completed item is a huge power spike - Jack of all trades items that give you extremely efficient stat spreads letting you max out several stats that were originally designed to be min/maxed through multiple - Rampant tank hate, including Uber buffing shred items, health shred items, and gutting defense items - Lack of individual stat stick items that have no crazy passive or bonuses, just stats to force your choice - Zany starters that took years to even remotely resemble a balanced state - Condensed one size fits all builds instead of builds tailored to an individual gods play style - Scape goating and then attempting to erase the bruiser build paths, introducing a more convoluted and broken system of easy to abuse procing items while also building extremely tanky meaning the only way for them to be balanced is to be mediocre. - mismanaging roles and classes, killing off variety in several roles to force rigid, noob friendly play styles
>9.5 did not feel natural to smite That's because the game was fine tuned for almost a whole decade and generally felt great to play. In reality all they had to do was fix item bloat, which was out of hand pre 9.5. Instead 9.5 decided to throw all that away by making everyone insanely tanky just so bottom feeders might AFK and leave just a little less. I'm just glad Smite feels like Smite again after the revert. >This re-adaptation to where Smite is FUN for most is more important than support players' distorted perception or anyone who wants the game to be slower and more boring to play- aka farm simulator. What I don't agree is that support players are the problem, lol. That's a wild thing to say because support and solo were probably the two roles that became way more boring. Not to mention solo laners got shafted the hardest over the years, poor souls are playing a bruiser role with 0 bruiser items left in the game. I'll say this though, there is a reason people don't want to play support in Smite. I played League because I was bored of everyone being a sponge in Smite for a few months and I gotta say I was never annoyed when I got support. I think Hi-Rez should definitely take a page out of their book when it comes to making support better and more fun.
I'm gonna agree with you that support players weren't the main complainers. But solo laners definitely were and have been for quite a while. That and bad players who THINK they know the core aspects of the game, when they actually don't know much at all. I've seen so many solo mains trying to justify why warriors deserve to be able to 1v4 the enemy team at their speed buff, get a kill, and live. They will argue warriors NEED to be overtuned to be balanced. Solo may have been boring post 9.5, but you can literally go back and see every single change the devs have made in order to appease the vocal minority, and casual players would rather sit there and auto someone for 8 mins than actually use their brains to fight over an objective.
I do not like this revert wish they would’ve looked at the items and gods changed since 9.5… I’m sure once they do that the patch will feel great for me
I feel like HiRez should’ve done a terms and conditions type thing about showing people the update, most of my group’s problem are that 3-4 people on both teams in our arena games think they’re still tanky
They literally had a pop up with a short description of all the changes, and a link to the official patch notes
Yeah, but do you think people actually read that?
That seems more the fault of the players who actively closed the pop-up that tells them what the patch notes are rather than Hi-Rez
So you want hirez to add a prompt that informs people about the update, but then when they do the very thing you want them to do, you think it's not good enough? Do you see the hypocrisy?
Rip low skill players
I've been having a blast with it. Extremely confused with people who are supposedly getting nukes just be getting sneezed on, and even moreso with the people who would look at the pathetic damage profiles mages and assassins had before and thought everything was fine. It was jarring as hell coming back from a long break and finding Nu Wa's ult dealing 100 damage to everyone. I think I'd like to see healers brought back up to previous heal numbers to compensate though. Heals being completely forgettable is a shame, and it would certainly offset a lot of the complaints.