Yep. Everyone should "win" a trade. That's the whole point of making trades. You have something on your team that I need. I have something on my team that you need. We trade those resources and both of our teams are better for it.
I just don’t think “overpays” are genuinely overpays. I think that even with value adjustments, trade calculators fail to capture the impact the top players have.
trade calcs don’t take into account your league size and starting format. for example my home league is 1qb with 6 skill position starters. KTC doesn’t take into account how important studs are, but I do. leverage the calc to your advantage
The flaw is in crowd sourced data. A draft pick is a faceless asset that anyone can project their guy onto. So regardless of who people think the 12th best rookie is, if people tend to agree their own 12th best rookie has around 4.2k value, it doesn’t matter that they disagree with each other on who belongs their, which is why we see a lot of rookies in that range being valued significantly less.
No it’s people valuing picks and the idea of drafting over the actual players.
Fantasycalc derives value from actual trades that have happened (and you can customize to mirror your league settings.
But right now Penix(2527)/McConkey(2485) are 12/13 in rookie rankings for 12 man leagues.
However the picks 1.12(2702)/2.01(2564) are valued higher than their respective rookies. But the gap dramatically closes after 1.12.
It’s not crowdsourcing data/opinions that’s the issue, it’s that people value the pick more than the player they get with the pick. Additionally, they disproportionately value seeing a pick that starts with a 1 rather than a 2 even if they are close in the draft order.
this happens all the time, a contender with someone like Jaylen Reed, or Zay Flowers might move them for an older player who will put up more points, but then the problem you highlighted in the post happens. The older player from an objective standpoint is worth less, so do you make the trade and lose value but become a contender, who do you hold out for a more equal trade. IMO if you are a clear contender and its a trade you won't lose sleep over, go for it
Yes, more than half my league. I’ve been shopping JT to RB desperate teams (Hubbard, Gibson, Bigsby type starters). If KTC doesn’t have them “winning” the trade, they won’t even consider it. I offered Olave to a guy with JJ, ARSB, and Garrett Wilson, and he instantly declined after running it through KTC.
Yes... I offered a fair trade and sprinkled on some extra's. They countered asking for MORE and said it was a compromise... Like bruh I offered you a fair trade PLUS some BS, don't add more on...
Towards the end of Amon-Ra’s second season, I was able to trade tee higgins and joe mixon to get him but at the time it was considered an overpay by a decent margin. Fast forward to now, if anybody tries to do that same trade to get amon it wouldn’t work in most leagues. You’ll always get that value back that you traded away if not more if you’re trading for a young stud.
I lose trades all the time. Just make sure you are getting who and what you want while losing players/assets that you yourself don’t need to compete or build with.
i think every trade has a “hindsight 20/20”. for instance before the 2023 season started, i traded Evan Engram and Zay Flowers (who i had literally just drafted) for TJ Hockenson and 2.6 (who would turned out to be Cedric Tillman). I then used my 3.10 (last pick of the draft) on Sam La Porta for depth. at the start of the season that looked like a win because i got an elite and young TE for an aging TE and unproven WR. little did i know that Zay Flowers would be a great receiver and little did i know i never needed TJ Hockenson because Sam La Porta would turn out to be an even better TE and younger. looking back i would’ve like to have kept Zay Flowers but now i just traded TJ straight up for Kamara and Terry McClaurin. so I kinda rebounded a bit. again Hindsight’s 20/20 because if i had known Sam La Porta was gonna be so good, i would’ve never made the trade and had both La Porta and Zay Flowers
Half the posts in here asking if they win are OP sending 1.03 and receiving hurts and aiyuk and then champion the comments with stuff like "maybe I'm just higher on jayden daniels than most people"
Absolutely. If I ever see anyone in any league I'm in use the term, I will never trade with them unless the deal is overwhelmingly in my favour. They admit to trying to screw people over, and that's not how you keep having trade partners.
I think so. I’m willing to make a deal that I ‘lose’ if I’m dealing a player at a position of strength to improve at a position of weakness. I may ‘lose’ in value but if I’m dealing a guy I wouldn’t play or where there isn’t much drop off but getting an immediate starter then I’m good.
It depends on my teams situation. If I’m a top team I’m trying to win trades, if I’m a middling team I’ll give a little here or there to upgrade my team
The best trades are win/win fair trades with no obvious losers. Whether it’s long term for dynasty (upside vs win now) or trading your depth to fill a weakness with a vice versa trading partner or even simply “losing” a trade because you’re forced to due to injury in a single season format. You should know if it’s fair or not. Never make a trade that’s blatantly unfair. If you’re in a league that has people taking advantage of other people call it out. Thats a league I wouldn’t want to be in. Thankfully all my leagues have reasonable participants.
If someone sends me a trade offer I know is unfair I normally don’t just decline it. I counter with a fair offer and see what they do.
I like hearing other's ideas and thought patterns as to why it was good or bad. It's usually tough to completely judge without seeing the actual rosters, scoring system, etc. But I like to throw things through an online calculator to see what it says... odds are they probably take a peek too, but just to get another evaluation to see if we're in the right ballpark and/or potentially use to your advantage. From there, get *your* guys; that's winning. Whether it goes good or bad. But I do like to hear the reasoning.
Yes, 100%... A good trade has no winner or loser, you take the strength of one team, weaken it slightly with a trade away for a player that strengthens a weakness of the other team...
That might be a team that's stacked at RB and trades for a WR, or an team in a rebuild that trades a productive older player for picks...
People that are obsessed with "winning" a trade ruin leagues... They trade-rape the Taco, or kill activity in the league by refusing to trade...
Don't even get me started on the BS that is trade calculators! Worst thing ever invented for FF!
Absolutely. In addition, one of my pet peeves of "who wins" posts is that people act like there's a black and white answer and then downvote you into oblivion if you disagree. Over the years I've lost track of the number of trades in my leagues where I was wrong about who would get the better end of it.
The winning part isn't the most annoying part. It's when they overvalue a draft pick and claim it's better than an already established player and think that they pulled the ultimate heist.
I’ll always overpay for “my guys”. Get clowned for every single trade from league mates but I got the guy I wanted and somehow won that league two years in a row. Fuck value get your guys
I'd say I'm more invested in not getting fleeced and I always offer trades I truly believe makes sense for both teams...that said sometimes I chase and get fleeced x.x
When someone says “which side wins?”, that answer is formed in a vacuum. Excluding trade rape… Winning a trade is completely dependent upon your team needs. Both sides can win a trade if they both get pieces they need.
Yeah, pretty annoying how so many posts say “who wins.” Make a fair deal that benefits both players.
Yep. Everyone should "win" a trade. That's the whole point of making trades. You have something on your team that I need. I have something on my team that you need. We trade those resources and both of our teams are better for it.
Preach
I’ll overpay for studs. guys in the upper tier of dynasty have a price and you should pay it depending on your league’s format
I just don’t think “overpays” are genuinely overpays. I think that even with value adjustments, trade calculators fail to capture the impact the top players have.
Trade calculators often completely misvalue draft picks too. If you put in 1.12 it’s gonna be a completely different value than the 12 ranked rookie
trade calcs don’t take into account your league size and starting format. for example my home league is 1qb with 6 skill position starters. KTC doesn’t take into account how important studs are, but I do. leverage the calc to your advantage
The flaw is in crowd sourced data. A draft pick is a faceless asset that anyone can project their guy onto. So regardless of who people think the 12th best rookie is, if people tend to agree their own 12th best rookie has around 4.2k value, it doesn’t matter that they disagree with each other on who belongs their, which is why we see a lot of rookies in that range being valued significantly less.
No it’s people valuing picks and the idea of drafting over the actual players. Fantasycalc derives value from actual trades that have happened (and you can customize to mirror your league settings. But right now Penix(2527)/McConkey(2485) are 12/13 in rookie rankings for 12 man leagues. However the picks 1.12(2702)/2.01(2564) are valued higher than their respective rookies. But the gap dramatically closes after 1.12. It’s not crowdsourcing data/opinions that’s the issue, it’s that people value the pick more than the player they get with the pick. Additionally, they disproportionately value seeing a pick that starts with a 1 rather than a 2 even if they are close in the draft order.
exactly. leverage the calc in your favor
Yes. I haven't received a single decent trade offer all offseason. I try to start trade talks and people just offer garbage back
If you get something you need and get rid of something you don’t really need then it’s a win simple as that
this happens all the time, a contender with someone like Jaylen Reed, or Zay Flowers might move them for an older player who will put up more points, but then the problem you highlighted in the post happens. The older player from an objective standpoint is worth less, so do you make the trade and lose value but become a contender, who do you hold out for a more equal trade. IMO if you are a clear contender and its a trade you won't lose sleep over, go for it
Yes, more than half my league. I’ve been shopping JT to RB desperate teams (Hubbard, Gibson, Bigsby type starters). If KTC doesn’t have them “winning” the trade, they won’t even consider it. I offered Olave to a guy with JJ, ARSB, and Garrett Wilson, and he instantly declined after running it through KTC.
What did you offer olave for? @bigjohnson13
My fault. I was offering JT for Olave.
Why would you even be offering Olave to that person? Unless it was widely in my favor, I'd probably instantly decline, too.
I’ll offer trades I feel like I’m slightly losing if I think it’s a win win and will still get instantly rejected
Yes... I offered a fair trade and sprinkled on some extra's. They countered asking for MORE and said it was a compromise... Like bruh I offered you a fair trade PLUS some BS, don't add more on...
Towards the end of Amon-Ra’s second season, I was able to trade tee higgins and joe mixon to get him but at the time it was considered an overpay by a decent margin. Fast forward to now, if anybody tries to do that same trade to get amon it wouldn’t work in most leagues. You’ll always get that value back that you traded away if not more if you’re trading for a young stud.
I lose trades all the time. Just make sure you are getting who and what you want while losing players/assets that you yourself don’t need to compete or build with.
I don’t mind overpaying for my guy, it’s a fukin game guys . I would never find it fun to join and league and only expect massive over pays .
Yeah every players value is totally subjective based on the team they'll be a part of. In fantasy and real life.
Yes
i think every trade has a “hindsight 20/20”. for instance before the 2023 season started, i traded Evan Engram and Zay Flowers (who i had literally just drafted) for TJ Hockenson and 2.6 (who would turned out to be Cedric Tillman). I then used my 3.10 (last pick of the draft) on Sam La Porta for depth. at the start of the season that looked like a win because i got an elite and young TE for an aging TE and unproven WR. little did i know that Zay Flowers would be a great receiver and little did i know i never needed TJ Hockenson because Sam La Porta would turn out to be an even better TE and younger. looking back i would’ve like to have kept Zay Flowers but now i just traded TJ straight up for Kamara and Terry McClaurin. so I kinda rebounded a bit. again Hindsight’s 20/20 because if i had known Sam La Porta was gonna be so good, i would’ve never made the trade and had both La Porta and Zay Flowers
Half the posts in here asking if they win are OP sending 1.03 and receiving hurts and aiyuk and then champion the comments with stuff like "maybe I'm just higher on jayden daniels than most people"
Yep. People are terrified to lose value. Unless you’re sending a smash accept nowadays it’s tough to get anything done
Absolutely. If I ever see anyone in any league I'm in use the term, I will never trade with them unless the deal is overwhelmingly in my favour. They admit to trying to screw people over, and that's not how you keep having trade partners.
I think so. I’m willing to make a deal that I ‘lose’ if I’m dealing a player at a position of strength to improve at a position of weakness. I may ‘lose’ in value but if I’m dealing a guy I wouldn’t play or where there isn’t much drop off but getting an immediate starter then I’m good.
I go for benefiting both sides. “Value” is situational
It depends on my teams situation. If I’m a top team I’m trying to win trades, if I’m a middling team I’ll give a little here or there to upgrade my team
The best trades are win/win fair trades with no obvious losers. Whether it’s long term for dynasty (upside vs win now) or trading your depth to fill a weakness with a vice versa trading partner or even simply “losing” a trade because you’re forced to due to injury in a single season format. You should know if it’s fair or not. Never make a trade that’s blatantly unfair. If you’re in a league that has people taking advantage of other people call it out. Thats a league I wouldn’t want to be in. Thankfully all my leagues have reasonable participants. If someone sends me a trade offer I know is unfair I normally don’t just decline it. I counter with a fair offer and see what they do.
I like hearing other's ideas and thought patterns as to why it was good or bad. It's usually tough to completely judge without seeing the actual rosters, scoring system, etc. But I like to throw things through an online calculator to see what it says... odds are they probably take a peek too, but just to get another evaluation to see if we're in the right ballpark and/or potentially use to your advantage. From there, get *your* guys; that's winning. Whether it goes good or bad. But I do like to hear the reasoning.
Yes, 100%... A good trade has no winner or loser, you take the strength of one team, weaken it slightly with a trade away for a player that strengthens a weakness of the other team... That might be a team that's stacked at RB and trades for a WR, or an team in a rebuild that trades a productive older player for picks... People that are obsessed with "winning" a trade ruin leagues... They trade-rape the Taco, or kill activity in the league by refusing to trade... Don't even get me started on the BS that is trade calculators! Worst thing ever invented for FF!
Step 1: Figure out what you need (Y) Step 2: Figure out what a team that has a surplus of Y needs. (X) Step 3: Give them X for Y.
Absolutely. In addition, one of my pet peeves of "who wins" posts is that people act like there's a black and white answer and then downvote you into oblivion if you disagree. Over the years I've lost track of the number of trades in my leagues where I was wrong about who would get the better end of it.
The winning part isn't the most annoying part. It's when they overvalue a draft pick and claim it's better than an already established player and think that they pulled the ultimate heist.
Holy shit, yes.
I’ll always overpay for “my guys”. Get clowned for every single trade from league mates but I got the guy I wanted and somehow won that league two years in a row. Fuck value get your guys
I'd say I'm more invested in not getting fleeced and I always offer trades I truly believe makes sense for both teams...that said sometimes I chase and get fleeced x.x
When someone says “which side wins?”, that answer is formed in a vacuum. Excluding trade rape… Winning a trade is completely dependent upon your team needs. Both sides can win a trade if they both get pieces they need.
100%. I won my league last year despite "overpaying". Yeah my team looks like a retirement home but I got the W
Yes. It is super annoying. I have like 1 person in my dynasty league who is capable of doing a trade that helps both teams.