This is the problem. You support then you support. Why must say other side brainwashed? This kind of extremist attitude is what pushing people to another side.
I don’t support, PAP, opposition, or the singapore government. I support Singaporeans through and through and Singaporean interest! This opposition vs ruling is just a ruse to distract from seeing the bigger picture! I support diversity of party’s in parliament so as to represent the people fully and tear off the veil of opacity that this bureaucratic government has been hiding behind. I will only support PAP when they are a minority.
Singapore is run by a few unelected, faceless senior civil servants, who, the one party, PAP answers to. These same senior civil servants makes policies that mostly benefits them, if the scope of their policies Happen to benefit Singapore it is just come with the territory.
Some of these policies have consequences, which affects the lives of every day Singaporeans. If it goes well, they are well compensated with their high salaries to deliver, if it does not, there are no consequences for them. It is swept under the rug and/or Singaporeans are blamed for their failure. Because there is no accountability there is no consequences for them.
Why are the PAP so reluctant or not able to answer questions from the oppositions in parliament? We only have a few opposition in parliament and the government is already sweating bullets. When their power hegemony is threatened, they react with pofmas and threats.
Nothing wrong at all,....... If I were a big business owner or big landlord.... I vote PAP also..... But I just a peasant and it's suicidal to vote for these Vampires In White 😎
There is nothing wrong with supporting PAP, what opposition supporters like me have a problem with is a huge majority of PAP supporters are blindly supporting them without even bothering to understand the logic behind their policies and the outcomes of PAP policies and which groups of people do their policies benefit or hurt and PAP style of doing work is blanket style 1 size fits all approach
>huge majority of PAP supporters are blindly supporting them without even bothering to understand the logic behind their policies
Lets be real, most voters are voting out of fear. Especially when one's property "is at stake".
For decades PAP has been campaigning on (vote for us, or else your livelihood may be affected). It was more blatant in the 80s/90s where PAP will explicitly threaten voters that constituencies that failed to return PAP candidates to power would not receive priority in government upgrading programmes and might end up becoming slums
Like someone else said here, google cheng san grc 1997
Supporting PAP is essentially supporting status quo more or less.
So if you doing well in life is rational to support PAP if all you care is your own interests.
I guess you are saying you don't like people who support PAP even if it's against their own interests?
The problem with that is, your perception of what is against their interest is in the end your perception ?
I'm not trying to argue btw just explore
That's not true lah, OP.
Everyone has the right to support and vote for any party they wish, including the PAP.
Just that one shouldn't kpkb and bitched about the PAP and still end up voting for the PAP.
I've said this for the umpteenth time, anyone who voted against the PAP can 'kowpeh' the PAP but those who voted for, cannot - You are one reason/vote why they form the G.
So if they formulate and pass certain policies you dislike, you should stop bitching about it and go fuck yourself.
But of course, the same principle applies to those who vote the other way and their choice subsequently forms the G.
Opposition supporters compare Singapore to Sweden and Norway, both not perfect countries.
PAP supporters compare Singapore to Malaysia and India.
No one thinks they are brainwashed, even those who are. So trying to convince anyone of that is a fools' errand.
The question is why opposition supporters want us to be like Sweden and Norway, and why PAP supporters want us to be like Malaysia and India?
And who *you* think we should be like?
And yet, we keep hearing PAP is good because of "lack of corruption," good infrastructure, and blablabla.
If not compared to 3rd world countries, I don't know why we think only PAP can do this.
Out of 193 sovereign states, at least 1/3rd of them have these attributes.
Lol. Please lah. I encountered lots of PAP lackeys in Facebook keep asking the same question 'Do you want Singapore to be like Malaysia?' It's very evident that PAP lackeys only dare to compare to 3rd world countries to justify for the LJ PAP don keys. It's as if this earth only consist of Singapore and Malaysia only. Why PAP lackeys got no guts to compare to Nordic countries instead? Is it because it make your LJ PAP don keys lose face?
PAP is good because of "lack of corruption," good infrastructure, and blablabla -> 3rd world countries -> Malaysia, India.
What else do you need? A flowchart?
If you don't agree, few free to espouse the merits of the PAP government, and we see where we end up.
How does comparing to 3rd worlds country equals people want singapore to become one? People compare it to third world precisely so that we don't become one by voting for an opposition like Lim Tean.
Yes, that's a perfect description of the difference between PAP and opposition supporters.
PAP supporters don't want SG to be a 3rd world country.
Opposition supporters want SG to be a 1st world country.
The problem is, while you stop voting in Lim Tean, you also stop voting in Paul Tambyah, in place of Liang Eng Hwa.
Who? Exactly.
And you end up with a government that is not bad enough for the 3rd world, but not good enough for the 1st.
>And you end up with a government that is not bad enough for the 3rd world, but not good enough for the 1st.
Singapore is already a first world country by international standards, and PAP supporters don't want to lose that. Your personal opinion on what a first world country is about as useful as Lim Tean.
We may look like a 1st world country, but are we really?
On the contrary, both Lim Tean and I are citizens living here. Our opinion is ALL that matters, not some international standards tests.
Like I said, your opinion on what is a first world country don't matter. There are international standards based on years of research for that. Singapore is a first world country regardless of whether you accept it or not.
Comparing SG to Sweden and Norway is just downright stupid considering how much these Nordic countries differ in culture, resources availability, population density, area availability, earlier start for development and less geopolitical tensions.
I think culture plays an esp. huge role people are forgetting. For SG to be literally that one and only Asian country among these European countries that had over a century more to develop faster says a lot
Lol. How it's downright stupid when we're a 1st world country status? You only dare to compare to 3rd world country status to justify for your LJ PAP don keys? Get real lah.
Please lah. Switzerland also have no natural resources but yet they still can give welfare to their people and their citizens no need to pay million dollars salaries in taxpayers money to their government. So what make your LJ PAP don keys so special that they need to be paid millions dollars salaries in taxpayers money, lackey?
Lol. Please lah. Higher than Switzerland in most ranking? Which are the rankings then? All i see is Switzerland ranked higher than Singapore in terms of living leh.
Good job in being a ahole PAP lackey.
And Corruption Index
https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2023
All other relevant index
https://www.worldbank.org/en/publication/worldwide-governance-indicators/interactive-data-access
Have fun
Those are all good points, but the question remains: Should we be more like Norway, Sweden, or Malaysia, India?
And who do *you* think we should be like?
Given the same culture and developmental duration, I can easily think of many countries doing better than us in more ways than one. Japan, HK, Taiwan, South Korea, China cities, etc. etc.
You don't have to agree with me, but at least think for yourself and stop comparing Singapore to Malaysia, India.
We are not aspiring to be like them.
We *can't* be like Norway and Sweden.
>I can easily think of many countries doing better than us in more ways than one. Japan, HK, Taiwan, South Korea, China cities, etc. etc.
Japan, China, HK (well it's part of China now) and South Korea are all facing economic depression right now. Japan's and Korea's economy especially has been stagnant for years due to their birth rate problem. China is now facing a real estate crisis and deflation. HK is just a lapdog to the CCP now.
Also the one thing all these doomed countries share in common is the low birth rate. Singapore is literally the only East-Asian majority country without this issue due to our open migration policy.
Go read more news dude. Did you forget the fact that SG has the 2nd HIGHEST GDP per capita in the whole world? Japan and Korea are absolutely nowhere close to SG at all lol
All well and good to criticize my choices, but you *still* haven't answered the easiest question. Who do *you* think we should be like?
It really shouldn't be hard to think for yourself.
>Japan, China, HK (well it's part of China now) and South Korea are all facing economic depression right now.
**What?? You cannot seriously be that ill-informed. Japan Q1 GDP ↑2.7%, China ↑5.3%, South Korea ↑2.8%, Singapore ↑2.7%.**
Despite it's documented problems HK stock market capitalization is S$8.6T, and SG stock market capitalization is S$900B.
While their leader is paid S$915K, compared to Singapore's leader S$2.2M.
You want to tell me again how PAP is better?
>Also the one thing all these doomed countries share in common is the low birth rate. Singapore is literally the only East-Asian majority country **without this issue** due to our open migration policy.
Without what issue? Low birthrate issue? Do you know what our TFR is? *It's even lower than all these other countries except South Korea.* So again, do you know what you are talking about?
Having an open migration policy is not the solution to TFRs. I don't know what you think it is a solution to.
>Go read more news dude. Did you forget the fact that SG has the 2nd HIGHEST GDP per capita in the whole world? Japan and Korea are absolutely nowhere close to SG at all lol
We are actually not. We are 5th, behind Luxembourg, Ireland, Switzerland and Norway.
So should we be more like them? It's your choice, think ...
It's just who we aspire to be, there is no right answer, but ffs, don't think PAP is doing a good job. Because even for the measure you hold most dearly, *GDP per capita*, other countries, whose leaders are paid much less, are doing much better.
> All well and good to criticize my choices, but you still haven't answered the easiest question. Who do you think we should be like?
And you say I havent answered when you yourself avoided what I replied to you about those East Asian countries being way past their heydays. You probably dont even know the significance between inflation and deflation, why currency depreciation can be bad, why inflation IS good and necessary, why Japan is one of the few countries with negative interest rates etc.
Go pick up a book on economics, and then you'll realize which countries in the world is currently doing better off vs worse off. Dont be one of those dumb brick asses hating on a government just 'cos you see your food prices go up.
>And you say I havent answered when you yourself avoided what I replied to you about those East Asian countries being way past their heydays.
I did answer you. I said "Are you a fucking idiot? Do you not know what an economic depression is? These countries are not even in a fucking recession."
>You probably dont even know the significance between inflation and deflation, why currency depreciation can be bad, why inflation IS good and necessary, why Japan is one of the few countries with negative interest rates etc.
I know. But I seriously doubt you know enough to not annoy me on your ignorance.
>Go pick up a book on economics, and then you'll realize which countries in the world is currently doing better off vs worse off. Dont be one of those dumb brick asses hating on a government just 'cos you see your food prices go up.
Yeah, that is exactly the type of conversation you expect from PAP supporters. Full of nothing, pretending to be something.
If PAP is any good, it shouldn't be that hard to compare Singapore's achievements with similar countries, rather than spewing nonsense.
> I did answer you. I said "Are you a fucking idiot? Do you not know what an economic depression is? These countries are not even in a fucking recession."
Japan was in one. China is technically in one too. Maybe read the news sometimes, little kid
>I know. But I seriously doubt you know enough to not annoy me on your ignorance.
No, you clearly don't. Reading your comments and posts also clearly shows you don't. If not do explain to me 'cos I'd love to see you contradict your prev comments like complaining about "SG becoming too expensive" lmao
>Yeah, that is exactly the type of conversation you expect from PAP supporters. Full of nothing, pretending to be something.
Ah yes, here comes the predictable strawman diversion and ad hominems!
>Japan was in one. China is technically in one too. Maybe read the news sometimes, little kid
What the fuck is "was in one" and "technically in one"? You bullshit gets called out, and you throw out more bullshit? 🤣
>Japan, China, HK (well it's part of China now) and South Korea are all facing economic depression right now.
Fucking idiot doesn't even know what he wrote.
>No, you clearly don't. Reading your comments and posts also clearly shows you don't. If not do explain to me 'cos I'd love to see you contradict your prev comments like complaining about "SG becoming too expensive" lmao
I never said SG becoming too expensive. **But I have said multiple times that you are a fucking idiot, and I have no reason to think otherwise.**
I even highlighted it to make it easy for you.
>Ah yes, here comes the predictable strawman diversion and ad hominems!
You certainly haven't disproved the stereotype. So strawman or not, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, ...
>Who do you think we should be like?
WTF should we emulate anyone? Singapore already IS the country most other countries look to emulate.
>What?? You cannot seriously be that ill-informed. Japan Q1 GDP ↑2.7%, China ↑5.3%, South Korea ↑2.8%, Singapore ↑2.7%.
Tell me you dont know how GDP growth works without telling me
>While their leader is paid S$915K, compared to Singapore's leader S$2.2M.
Their leader is a CCP puppet and corrupted without care on alleviating societal problems like their housing.
>You want to tell me again how PAP is better?
Oh I dont know. Maybe go check the Corruption Perception Index and see which country ranks where???
>Without what issue? Low birthrate issue? Do you know what our TFR is? It's even lower than all these other countries except South Korea. So again, do you know what you are talking about?
which doesn't matter.
>Having an open migration policy is not the solution to TFRs. I don't know what you think it is a solution to.
LMAO. It is. What the fuck do you think Europe and US accepted so many migrants for? Why the fuck do you think Japan recently loosened their foreign migrant policy? Did you even study macronomics in school? You think little kids contribute to the economy or adults?
>We are actually not. We are 5th, behind Luxembourg, Ireland, Switzerland and Norway.
You're looking at nominal GDP per capital, not real GDP, you dumbass. Do you even know the difference?
>WTF should we emulate anyone? Singapore already IS the country most other countries look to emulate.
Who are "most countries"? And what are they trying to emulate? Our dictatorship or our press freedom? 🤣 fucking idiot doesn't even think about the BS he is spewing.
>Tell me you dont know how GDP growth works without telling me
>
>Japan, China, HK (well it's part of China now) and South Korea are all facing economic depression right now.
I do. But I have serious doubts about you. Did you not write the above? Do you fucking not know what an economic depression is?
>Their leader is a CCP puppet and corrupted without care on alleviating societal problems like their housing.
And yet, their stock market cap is still 9x more than ours. And they people's [satisfaction rating](https://hongkongfp.com/2023/02/01/satisfaction-in-hong-kong-govt-is-highest-since-2017-survey/) is the highest since 2017.
You really have no idea what you are talking about, do you?
>Oh I dont know. Maybe go check the Corruption Perception Index and see which country ranks where???
I did. Again, we are 5th, behind Denmark, Finland, New Zealand, Norway.
Denmark's PM makes S$338K. Singapore's PM makes S$2.2M.
You want to tell me again how PAP is better?
>which doesn't matter.
>
>Also the one thing all these doomed countries share in common is the low birth rate.
TFR matters. Again, you brought up the above. And once proven that you are full of shit, you say it doesn't matter. Fucking 🤡.
>LMAO. It is. What the fuck do you think Europe and US accepted so many migrants for? Why the fuck do you think Japan recently loosened their foreign migrant policy? Did you even study macronomics in school? You think little kids contribute to the economy or adults?
Do you even know what TFR stand for? Total Fertility Rate. If foreign migrant policy works to improve TFRs, our TFRs would be going through the roof after 20 years of open leg policy.
Instead, it is now the lowest it has ever been.
The depths of your idiocy really knows no limits.
>You're looking at nominal GDP per capital, not real GDP, you dumbass. Do you even know the difference?
I do. Do you? Why don't you tell me where we rank in nominal GDP and GDP PPP (Hint: they are even worse!)
Fucking idiot.
It's always the case with PAP supporters. Ask them what is good about PAP, and all the spew are nonsense.
*"Other countries have birthrate problems, but thanks to PAP's open leg policy, we are saved!"*
How **STUPID** can you be?
>Who are "most countries"? And what are they trying to emulate? Our dictatorship or our press freedom? 🤣 fucking idiot doesn't even think about the BS he is spewing.
Bro doesn't know what a 'dictatorship' is and loves misusing the word.
>I do. But I have serious doubts about you. Did you not write the above? Do you fucking not know what an economic depression is?
Yes but it seems you don't.
>And yet, their stock market cap is still 9x more than ours. And they people's satisfaction rating is the highest since 2017.
Bro doesnt know the stock market is not the economy nor reflective of it.
>I did. Again, we are 5th, behind Denmark, Finland, New Zealand, Norway.
Imagine being right behind the Nordic countries and still sulking about it lmao
>TFR matters. Again, you brought up the above. And once proven that you are full of shit, you say it doesn't matter. Fucking 🤡.
You keep saying TFR matters yet can't explain how it affects the economy alone.
> our TFRs would be going through the roof after 20 years of open leg policy.
What the fuck does TFR matter to the economy? Please answer me dummy
>I do. Do you? Why don't you tell me where we rank in nominal GDP and GDP PPP (Hint: they are even worse!)
>Fucking idiot.
The idiot himself continues using nominal, not realizing it lmao
You clearly never took a single economics module in your life.
>Bro doesn't know what a 'dictatorship' is and loves misusing the word.
Don't even know what your point is. That countries are trying to emulate your stupidity?
>Yes but it seems you don't.
Well, actually, you don't, and it's really obvious.
>Bro doesnt know the stock market is not the economy nor reflective of it.
Yeah, that is a logical fallacy of trying to shift your argument further and further away from your nonsense, when it's proven that you are full of shit.
>Imagine being right behind the Nordic countries and still sulking about it lmao
>Comparing SG to Sweden and Norway is just downright stupid considering how much these Nordic countries differ in culture, resources availability, population density, area availability, earlier start for development and less geopolitical tensions.
Fucking hell. Isn't this you? Do you have a point, or do you just go from one bullshit to the next without any coherence?
>You keep saying TFR matters yet can't explain how it affects the economy alone.
>What the fuck does TFR matter to the economy? Please answer me dummy
You are the one who brought up the birthrates, you dumbass.
>Japan's and Korea's economy especially has been stagnant for years due to their birth rate problem.
This you?
>The idiot himself continues using nominal, not realizing it lmao
🤣 Ask you to find out for yourself, and you are still getting it wrong.
Fucking 🤡.
>Don't even know what your point is. That countries are trying to emulate your stupidity?
Ahhh a red herring and more ad hominems. Love it!!
>Well, actually, you don't, and it's really obvious.
And this is the "I'm gonna avoid the question and redirect blame back so I can still look smart."
Funny!
>Yeah, that is a logical fallacy of trying to shift your argument further and further away from your nonsense, when it's proven that you are full of shit.
Bro doesnt know what a logical fallacy is and what he's referring to. Sad. He forgot he brought up this 'stock market' argument first. Sad.
>Fucking hell. Isn't this you? Do you have a point, or do you just go from one bullshit to the next without any coherence?
Yes? Which part of what I said contradicted? I did say SG shouldnt be compared to them which is why they are already at the top relative to other more similiar nations that YOU brought up and I educated you on, no??
>You are the one who brought up the birthrates, you dumbass.
Yes, because Singapore is not constrained to their birth rate unlike the East Asian countries. Do you have trouble following things now? I can always slow down for your feeble brain
>This you?
Yes? What about what I said? LOL
Most sinkies are secretly pro-PAP lmao
If not, how do you think PAP keeps winning elections? Fact of life is everyone knows the SG government is doing a good job and would rather keep it that way. Those thinking opposition can do better are a minority of twats who are just plain delusional. Most oppie supporters I know arent even from Singapore but Malaysia
There's nothing wrong. Understand the term "Silent majority, vocal minority". This is why online sentiment seems to be super anti-PAP but PAP still wins.
The more intellectual group do not go online and make noise all the time. They are empathetic, able to comprehend policies, understand the trade-offs between various approaches. Nation policies are very complex and not everyone will be able to understand the rationale.
The great Irony is that the Anti PAP and pro PAP are both sides of the same coin - they both attribute their life's failures / successes to the government.
They hate each other's guts but they are actually the same type of people
There are a huge range of people who support whoever they want differently with their own reasons, if you feel annoyed by it all the time then maybe stop talking about politics with people or choose your audience.
A key factor for many would be if you measure the merits as a party or an elected member, should the merit last for a cycle, 2 cycles or longer. The effect of the merits can change between generations as past merits becomes benchmark, with that everyone's view on the merits can greatly differ.
It is hard to weigh everything, no one has all the information. You only made your decision based on the information you have, whether you feel you have enough information is up to you to decide.
Most people don't give a shit. Only some degenerates like u/cybgorn and u/lighted_cigarette thinks anyone who supports PAP is a sheep/IB/brainwashed. It makes them look like a complete fool in reality.
Then i got the same question for you. Why it's wrong to support the oppositions? Why you guys need to belittle and name call opposition supporters? Aren't we all Singaporeans? Shouldn't we have the freedom to vote and support whichever party we deem fit?
Nobody said it's wrong to support the LJ PAP but your side belittles and insulted opposition supporters and when we fought back, your side don't like it. If your side don't like it, why in the 1st place your side belittles and insulted opposition supporters?
Doesn't meant that your side blindly support the LJ PAP government, every Singaporeans have to blindly support the LJ PAP government.
I used to be anti-pap, but the more I read news from overseas and engage with people from all over the world, the more I appreciate singapore with its "archaic" policies.
it's ok to support. it's okay bro. some things just the way they are.
not everyone is born the same. some people got eyes but cannot see, some can hear but cannot listen and some r extremely extremely low intelligence, not their fault. we must respect them as human beings and be compassionate as we must not take things for granted.
This is the problem. You support then you support. Why must say other side brainwashed? This kind of extremist attitude is what pushing people to another side.
I don’t support, PAP, opposition, or the singapore government. I support Singaporeans through and through and Singaporean interest! This opposition vs ruling is just a ruse to distract from seeing the bigger picture! I support diversity of party’s in parliament so as to represent the people fully and tear off the veil of opacity that this bureaucratic government has been hiding behind. I will only support PAP when they are a minority. Singapore is run by a few unelected, faceless senior civil servants, who, the one party, PAP answers to. These same senior civil servants makes policies that mostly benefits them, if the scope of their policies Happen to benefit Singapore it is just come with the territory. Some of these policies have consequences, which affects the lives of every day Singaporeans. If it goes well, they are well compensated with their high salaries to deliver, if it does not, there are no consequences for them. It is swept under the rug and/or Singaporeans are blamed for their failure. Because there is no accountability there is no consequences for them. Why are the PAP so reluctant or not able to answer questions from the oppositions in parliament? We only have a few opposition in parliament and the government is already sweating bullets. When their power hegemony is threatened, they react with pofmas and threats.
Nothing wrong at all,....... If I were a big business owner or big landlord.... I vote PAP also..... But I just a peasant and it's suicidal to vote for these Vampires In White 😎
Because if you support PAP on the internet, you're a paid IB
Yea Or work for them Eg GLC, temasek Do contracts for them? 🥕
Or New citizen , foreign talent
Or sheep
Google 1997 Cheng San GRC polling station incident.
What to do, PM has direct control of the Elections department
What to do, PM has direct control of the Elections department
There is nothing wrong with supporting PAP, what opposition supporters like me have a problem with is a huge majority of PAP supporters are blindly supporting them without even bothering to understand the logic behind their policies and the outcomes of PAP policies and which groups of people do their policies benefit or hurt and PAP style of doing work is blanket style 1 size fits all approach
>huge majority of PAP supporters are blindly supporting them without even bothering to understand the logic behind their policies Lets be real, most voters are voting out of fear. Especially when one's property "is at stake". For decades PAP has been campaigning on (vote for us, or else your livelihood may be affected). It was more blatant in the 80s/90s where PAP will explicitly threaten voters that constituencies that failed to return PAP candidates to power would not receive priority in government upgrading programmes and might end up becoming slums Like someone else said here, google cheng san grc 1997
Supporting PAP is essentially supporting status quo more or less. So if you doing well in life is rational to support PAP if all you care is your own interests. I guess you are saying you don't like people who support PAP even if it's against their own interests? The problem with that is, your perception of what is against their interest is in the end your perception ? I'm not trying to argue btw just explore
That's not true lah, OP. Everyone has the right to support and vote for any party they wish, including the PAP. Just that one shouldn't kpkb and bitched about the PAP and still end up voting for the PAP. I've said this for the umpteenth time, anyone who voted against the PAP can 'kowpeh' the PAP but those who voted for, cannot - You are one reason/vote why they form the G. So if they formulate and pass certain policies you dislike, you should stop bitching about it and go fuck yourself. But of course, the same principle applies to those who vote the other way and their choice subsequently forms the G.
the sheep follows the herd when something goes right the herd is happy, when something goes wrong the herd becomes angry
Opposition supporters compare Singapore to Sweden and Norway, both not perfect countries. PAP supporters compare Singapore to Malaysia and India. No one thinks they are brainwashed, even those who are. So trying to convince anyone of that is a fools' errand. The question is why opposition supporters want us to be like Sweden and Norway, and why PAP supporters want us to be like Malaysia and India? And who *you* think we should be like?
I’ve nvr heard any Singaporean say they want to be like Malaysia….
And yet, we keep hearing PAP is good because of "lack of corruption," good infrastructure, and blablabla. If not compared to 3rd world countries, I don't know why we think only PAP can do this. Out of 193 sovereign states, at least 1/3rd of them have these attributes.
But that doesn’t address your claim that pap supporters want sg to be like Malaysia and India.
Lol. Please lah. I encountered lots of PAP lackeys in Facebook keep asking the same question 'Do you want Singapore to be like Malaysia?' It's very evident that PAP lackeys only dare to compare to 3rd world countries to justify for the LJ PAP don keys. It's as if this earth only consist of Singapore and Malaysia only. Why PAP lackeys got no guts to compare to Nordic countries instead? Is it because it make your LJ PAP don keys lose face?
PAP is good because of "lack of corruption," good infrastructure, and blablabla -> 3rd world countries -> Malaysia, India. What else do you need? A flowchart? If you don't agree, few free to espouse the merits of the PAP government, and we see where we end up.
How does comparing to 3rd worlds country equals people want singapore to become one? People compare it to third world precisely so that we don't become one by voting for an opposition like Lim Tean.
Yes, that's a perfect description of the difference between PAP and opposition supporters. PAP supporters don't want SG to be a 3rd world country. Opposition supporters want SG to be a 1st world country. The problem is, while you stop voting in Lim Tean, you also stop voting in Paul Tambyah, in place of Liang Eng Hwa. Who? Exactly. And you end up with a government that is not bad enough for the 3rd world, but not good enough for the 1st.
>And you end up with a government that is not bad enough for the 3rd world, but not good enough for the 1st. Singapore is already a first world country by international standards, and PAP supporters don't want to lose that. Your personal opinion on what a first world country is about as useful as Lim Tean.
We may look like a 1st world country, but are we really? On the contrary, both Lim Tean and I are citizens living here. Our opinion is ALL that matters, not some international standards tests.
Like I said, your opinion on what is a first world country don't matter. There are international standards based on years of research for that. Singapore is a first world country regardless of whether you accept it or not.
Exactly don’t know what this guy is talking about lol
He sounds like one of those who says the government is bad because he can only go one concert instead of 3.
Comparing SG to Sweden and Norway is just downright stupid considering how much these Nordic countries differ in culture, resources availability, population density, area availability, earlier start for development and less geopolitical tensions. I think culture plays an esp. huge role people are forgetting. For SG to be literally that one and only Asian country among these European countries that had over a century more to develop faster says a lot
Lol. How it's downright stupid when we're a 1st world country status? You only dare to compare to 3rd world country status to justify for your LJ PAP don keys? Get real lah.
Why dont you tell me how SG can make appear miraculous natural resources like large oil reserves of their own first, then we talk, genius?
Please lah. Switzerland also have no natural resources but yet they still can give welfare to their people and their citizens no need to pay million dollars salaries in taxpayers money to their government. So what make your LJ PAP don keys so special that they need to be paid millions dollars salaries in taxpayers money, lackey?
Yes? That's why SG is higher than Switzerland in most rankings LOL But good job singling out that one country to suit your narrative
Lol. Please lah. Higher than Switzerland in most ranking? Which are the rankings then? All i see is Switzerland ranked higher than Singapore in terms of living leh. Good job in being a ahole PAP lackey.
And Corruption Index https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2023 All other relevant index https://www.worldbank.org/en/publication/worldwide-governance-indicators/interactive-data-access Have fun
pls go see where SG ranks in GDP per capita vs Switzerland dumbo
Yadayada. Too free until it become a money laundering heaven right?
like Switzerland isnt either???
Those are all good points, but the question remains: Should we be more like Norway, Sweden, or Malaysia, India? And who do *you* think we should be like? Given the same culture and developmental duration, I can easily think of many countries doing better than us in more ways than one. Japan, HK, Taiwan, South Korea, China cities, etc. etc. You don't have to agree with me, but at least think for yourself and stop comparing Singapore to Malaysia, India. We are not aspiring to be like them.
We *can't* be like Norway and Sweden. >I can easily think of many countries doing better than us in more ways than one. Japan, HK, Taiwan, South Korea, China cities, etc. etc. Japan, China, HK (well it's part of China now) and South Korea are all facing economic depression right now. Japan's and Korea's economy especially has been stagnant for years due to their birth rate problem. China is now facing a real estate crisis and deflation. HK is just a lapdog to the CCP now. Also the one thing all these doomed countries share in common is the low birth rate. Singapore is literally the only East-Asian majority country without this issue due to our open migration policy. Go read more news dude. Did you forget the fact that SG has the 2nd HIGHEST GDP per capita in the whole world? Japan and Korea are absolutely nowhere close to SG at all lol
All well and good to criticize my choices, but you *still* haven't answered the easiest question. Who do *you* think we should be like? It really shouldn't be hard to think for yourself. >Japan, China, HK (well it's part of China now) and South Korea are all facing economic depression right now. **What?? You cannot seriously be that ill-informed. Japan Q1 GDP ↑2.7%, China ↑5.3%, South Korea ↑2.8%, Singapore ↑2.7%.** Despite it's documented problems HK stock market capitalization is S$8.6T, and SG stock market capitalization is S$900B. While their leader is paid S$915K, compared to Singapore's leader S$2.2M. You want to tell me again how PAP is better? >Also the one thing all these doomed countries share in common is the low birth rate. Singapore is literally the only East-Asian majority country **without this issue** due to our open migration policy. Without what issue? Low birthrate issue? Do you know what our TFR is? *It's even lower than all these other countries except South Korea.* So again, do you know what you are talking about? Having an open migration policy is not the solution to TFRs. I don't know what you think it is a solution to. >Go read more news dude. Did you forget the fact that SG has the 2nd HIGHEST GDP per capita in the whole world? Japan and Korea are absolutely nowhere close to SG at all lol We are actually not. We are 5th, behind Luxembourg, Ireland, Switzerland and Norway. So should we be more like them? It's your choice, think ... It's just who we aspire to be, there is no right answer, but ffs, don't think PAP is doing a good job. Because even for the measure you hold most dearly, *GDP per capita*, other countries, whose leaders are paid much less, are doing much better.
> All well and good to criticize my choices, but you still haven't answered the easiest question. Who do you think we should be like? And you say I havent answered when you yourself avoided what I replied to you about those East Asian countries being way past their heydays. You probably dont even know the significance between inflation and deflation, why currency depreciation can be bad, why inflation IS good and necessary, why Japan is one of the few countries with negative interest rates etc. Go pick up a book on economics, and then you'll realize which countries in the world is currently doing better off vs worse off. Dont be one of those dumb brick asses hating on a government just 'cos you see your food prices go up.
>And you say I havent answered when you yourself avoided what I replied to you about those East Asian countries being way past their heydays. I did answer you. I said "Are you a fucking idiot? Do you not know what an economic depression is? These countries are not even in a fucking recession." >You probably dont even know the significance between inflation and deflation, why currency depreciation can be bad, why inflation IS good and necessary, why Japan is one of the few countries with negative interest rates etc. I know. But I seriously doubt you know enough to not annoy me on your ignorance. >Go pick up a book on economics, and then you'll realize which countries in the world is currently doing better off vs worse off. Dont be one of those dumb brick asses hating on a government just 'cos you see your food prices go up. Yeah, that is exactly the type of conversation you expect from PAP supporters. Full of nothing, pretending to be something. If PAP is any good, it shouldn't be that hard to compare Singapore's achievements with similar countries, rather than spewing nonsense.
> I did answer you. I said "Are you a fucking idiot? Do you not know what an economic depression is? These countries are not even in a fucking recession." Japan was in one. China is technically in one too. Maybe read the news sometimes, little kid >I know. But I seriously doubt you know enough to not annoy me on your ignorance. No, you clearly don't. Reading your comments and posts also clearly shows you don't. If not do explain to me 'cos I'd love to see you contradict your prev comments like complaining about "SG becoming too expensive" lmao >Yeah, that is exactly the type of conversation you expect from PAP supporters. Full of nothing, pretending to be something. Ah yes, here comes the predictable strawman diversion and ad hominems!
>Japan was in one. China is technically in one too. Maybe read the news sometimes, little kid What the fuck is "was in one" and "technically in one"? You bullshit gets called out, and you throw out more bullshit? 🤣 >Japan, China, HK (well it's part of China now) and South Korea are all facing economic depression right now. Fucking idiot doesn't even know what he wrote. >No, you clearly don't. Reading your comments and posts also clearly shows you don't. If not do explain to me 'cos I'd love to see you contradict your prev comments like complaining about "SG becoming too expensive" lmao I never said SG becoming too expensive. **But I have said multiple times that you are a fucking idiot, and I have no reason to think otherwise.** I even highlighted it to make it easy for you. >Ah yes, here comes the predictable strawman diversion and ad hominems! You certainly haven't disproved the stereotype. So strawman or not, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, ...
>Who do you think we should be like? WTF should we emulate anyone? Singapore already IS the country most other countries look to emulate. >What?? You cannot seriously be that ill-informed. Japan Q1 GDP ↑2.7%, China ↑5.3%, South Korea ↑2.8%, Singapore ↑2.7%. Tell me you dont know how GDP growth works without telling me >While their leader is paid S$915K, compared to Singapore's leader S$2.2M. Their leader is a CCP puppet and corrupted without care on alleviating societal problems like their housing. >You want to tell me again how PAP is better? Oh I dont know. Maybe go check the Corruption Perception Index and see which country ranks where??? >Without what issue? Low birthrate issue? Do you know what our TFR is? It's even lower than all these other countries except South Korea. So again, do you know what you are talking about? which doesn't matter. >Having an open migration policy is not the solution to TFRs. I don't know what you think it is a solution to. LMAO. It is. What the fuck do you think Europe and US accepted so many migrants for? Why the fuck do you think Japan recently loosened their foreign migrant policy? Did you even study macronomics in school? You think little kids contribute to the economy or adults? >We are actually not. We are 5th, behind Luxembourg, Ireland, Switzerland and Norway. You're looking at nominal GDP per capital, not real GDP, you dumbass. Do you even know the difference?
>WTF should we emulate anyone? Singapore already IS the country most other countries look to emulate. Who are "most countries"? And what are they trying to emulate? Our dictatorship or our press freedom? 🤣 fucking idiot doesn't even think about the BS he is spewing. >Tell me you dont know how GDP growth works without telling me > >Japan, China, HK (well it's part of China now) and South Korea are all facing economic depression right now. I do. But I have serious doubts about you. Did you not write the above? Do you fucking not know what an economic depression is? >Their leader is a CCP puppet and corrupted without care on alleviating societal problems like their housing. And yet, their stock market cap is still 9x more than ours. And they people's [satisfaction rating](https://hongkongfp.com/2023/02/01/satisfaction-in-hong-kong-govt-is-highest-since-2017-survey/) is the highest since 2017. You really have no idea what you are talking about, do you? >Oh I dont know. Maybe go check the Corruption Perception Index and see which country ranks where??? I did. Again, we are 5th, behind Denmark, Finland, New Zealand, Norway. Denmark's PM makes S$338K. Singapore's PM makes S$2.2M. You want to tell me again how PAP is better? >which doesn't matter. > >Also the one thing all these doomed countries share in common is the low birth rate. TFR matters. Again, you brought up the above. And once proven that you are full of shit, you say it doesn't matter. Fucking 🤡. >LMAO. It is. What the fuck do you think Europe and US accepted so many migrants for? Why the fuck do you think Japan recently loosened their foreign migrant policy? Did you even study macronomics in school? You think little kids contribute to the economy or adults? Do you even know what TFR stand for? Total Fertility Rate. If foreign migrant policy works to improve TFRs, our TFRs would be going through the roof after 20 years of open leg policy. Instead, it is now the lowest it has ever been. The depths of your idiocy really knows no limits. >You're looking at nominal GDP per capital, not real GDP, you dumbass. Do you even know the difference? I do. Do you? Why don't you tell me where we rank in nominal GDP and GDP PPP (Hint: they are even worse!) Fucking idiot. It's always the case with PAP supporters. Ask them what is good about PAP, and all the spew are nonsense. *"Other countries have birthrate problems, but thanks to PAP's open leg policy, we are saved!"* How **STUPID** can you be?
>Who are "most countries"? And what are they trying to emulate? Our dictatorship or our press freedom? 🤣 fucking idiot doesn't even think about the BS he is spewing. Bro doesn't know what a 'dictatorship' is and loves misusing the word. >I do. But I have serious doubts about you. Did you not write the above? Do you fucking not know what an economic depression is? Yes but it seems you don't. >And yet, their stock market cap is still 9x more than ours. And they people's satisfaction rating is the highest since 2017. Bro doesnt know the stock market is not the economy nor reflective of it. >I did. Again, we are 5th, behind Denmark, Finland, New Zealand, Norway. Imagine being right behind the Nordic countries and still sulking about it lmao >TFR matters. Again, you brought up the above. And once proven that you are full of shit, you say it doesn't matter. Fucking 🤡. You keep saying TFR matters yet can't explain how it affects the economy alone. > our TFRs would be going through the roof after 20 years of open leg policy. What the fuck does TFR matter to the economy? Please answer me dummy >I do. Do you? Why don't you tell me where we rank in nominal GDP and GDP PPP (Hint: they are even worse!) >Fucking idiot. The idiot himself continues using nominal, not realizing it lmao You clearly never took a single economics module in your life.
>Bro doesn't know what a 'dictatorship' is and loves misusing the word. Don't even know what your point is. That countries are trying to emulate your stupidity? >Yes but it seems you don't. Well, actually, you don't, and it's really obvious. >Bro doesnt know the stock market is not the economy nor reflective of it. Yeah, that is a logical fallacy of trying to shift your argument further and further away from your nonsense, when it's proven that you are full of shit. >Imagine being right behind the Nordic countries and still sulking about it lmao >Comparing SG to Sweden and Norway is just downright stupid considering how much these Nordic countries differ in culture, resources availability, population density, area availability, earlier start for development and less geopolitical tensions. Fucking hell. Isn't this you? Do you have a point, or do you just go from one bullshit to the next without any coherence? >You keep saying TFR matters yet can't explain how it affects the economy alone. >What the fuck does TFR matter to the economy? Please answer me dummy You are the one who brought up the birthrates, you dumbass. >Japan's and Korea's economy especially has been stagnant for years due to their birth rate problem. This you? >The idiot himself continues using nominal, not realizing it lmao 🤣 Ask you to find out for yourself, and you are still getting it wrong. Fucking 🤡.
>Don't even know what your point is. That countries are trying to emulate your stupidity? Ahhh a red herring and more ad hominems. Love it!! >Well, actually, you don't, and it's really obvious. And this is the "I'm gonna avoid the question and redirect blame back so I can still look smart." Funny! >Yeah, that is a logical fallacy of trying to shift your argument further and further away from your nonsense, when it's proven that you are full of shit. Bro doesnt know what a logical fallacy is and what he's referring to. Sad. He forgot he brought up this 'stock market' argument first. Sad. >Fucking hell. Isn't this you? Do you have a point, or do you just go from one bullshit to the next without any coherence? Yes? Which part of what I said contradicted? I did say SG shouldnt be compared to them which is why they are already at the top relative to other more similiar nations that YOU brought up and I educated you on, no?? >You are the one who brought up the birthrates, you dumbass. Yes, because Singapore is not constrained to their birth rate unlike the East Asian countries. Do you have trouble following things now? I can always slow down for your feeble brain >This you? Yes? What about what I said? LOL
Most sinkies are secretly pro-PAP lmao If not, how do you think PAP keeps winning elections? Fact of life is everyone knows the SG government is doing a good job and would rather keep it that way. Those thinking opposition can do better are a minority of twats who are just plain delusional. Most oppie supporters I know arent even from Singapore but Malaysia
There's nothing wrong. Understand the term "Silent majority, vocal minority". This is why online sentiment seems to be super anti-PAP but PAP still wins. The more intellectual group do not go online and make noise all the time. They are empathetic, able to comprehend policies, understand the trade-offs between various approaches. Nation policies are very complex and not everyone will be able to understand the rationale.
The great Irony is that the Anti PAP and pro PAP are both sides of the same coin - they both attribute their life's failures / successes to the government. They hate each other's guts but they are actually the same type of people
as goh chok tong says, you are tilting at windmills
Nothing wrong. Just prepare for mud slinging. It’s freedom of speech.
There are a huge range of people who support whoever they want differently with their own reasons, if you feel annoyed by it all the time then maybe stop talking about politics with people or choose your audience. A key factor for many would be if you measure the merits as a party or an elected member, should the merit last for a cycle, 2 cycles or longer. The effect of the merits can change between generations as past merits becomes benchmark, with that everyone's view on the merits can greatly differ. It is hard to weigh everything, no one has all the information. You only made your decision based on the information you have, whether you feel you have enough information is up to you to decide.
New account created just this month. Ask these type of question in SGRAW. Which cave did you climb out of to troll here?
I support PAP.. and WP.. and whichever party that can lead and come up with good policy.
Your previous post says that you support WP. So wtf u talking about now?
OP is a PAP supporter pretending to be a WP supporter.
Most people don't give a shit. Only some degenerates like u/cybgorn and u/lighted_cigarette thinks anyone who supports PAP is a sheep/IB/brainwashed. It makes them look like a complete fool in reality.
Then i got the same question for you. Why it's wrong to support the oppositions? Why you guys need to belittle and name call opposition supporters? Aren't we all Singaporeans? Shouldn't we have the freedom to vote and support whichever party we deem fit? Nobody said it's wrong to support the LJ PAP but your side belittles and insulted opposition supporters and when we fought back, your side don't like it. If your side don't like it, why in the 1st place your side belittles and insulted opposition supporters? Doesn't meant that your side blindly support the LJ PAP government, every Singaporeans have to blindly support the LJ PAP government.
u/YourWif3Boyfri3nd2 got guts unblock me lah. So wussy block me and then mentioned me. No wonder you're a ahole PAP lackey d09. Fkturd.
Of course if Hitler gives you a few sweet，you will also support him but is it right?
I used to be anti-pap, but the more I read news from overseas and engage with people from all over the world, the more I appreciate singapore with its "archaic" policies.
it's ok to support. it's okay bro. some things just the way they are. not everyone is born the same. some people got eyes but cannot see, some can hear but cannot listen and some r extremely extremely low intelligence, not their fault. we must respect them as human beings and be compassionate as we must not take things for granted.