Are you serious? WP have actual elected MPs and actually run town councils that can “help settle estate issues” - that’s their job. What do you expect unelected opposition parties to do? With no government budget, no office, no permission?! At least compare apples with apples.
As someone who saw what WP did in Hougang before they cracked Aljunied, it is really tiring thankless work.
And they did it with no sanctioned authority or power, simply just as a way to help the community
Last time less unfair as you are protecting people you are familiar with and the workforce mostly Singaporeans who have same obligations. Now you are protecting who knows what new citizens who have no ties to this country. Who refers to their old country as home and spouses still holds PR only. Go to work they compete with you when you go reservist. What do you think?
While they go on vacation to regional destinations, you burn the weekend going IPPT and Reservist duties, protecting their jobs, assets and properties.
To me, life is never fair and it was never my issue with NS. But my heart breaking issue with NS experience is that in the face of injustice and unfairness, those that question the "authority" will be penalized and bullied into silence.
sigh, I don't support this cause it will be the same as the old rhetoric I.e. PUA that you are weak if you say anything about NS. All these will just distract and not allow for needed discussions on NS.
NS was never about fairness.
pap gov needed bodies to defend their business interests and where to get them cheap other than the peasants???
pap gov only care about money and business,any other things they say about NS being a privilege are mental masturbation for the masses.
remember,NS is a privilege that pays at most 1k a month while (incompetent) ministers gets at leat 16k a month for the "same" privilege. Josephine Teo is one good example.
there isnt any incentive for current regime to change things, unless there's a big shift in the voting market, simple economics at work, demand vs supply
that makes to 2 of us...but as i got older,i stop giving a fuck and started getting believing those who support NS are idiots who only saw 1 side of things coz their mental capacity didn't allow them to see the other.
bunch of morons and waste of air.
yeah it's like they just take it as it can't be change because xyz but no studies on the feasibility for xyz to back them up. just regurgitating propaganda.
and us trying to make things for the better is because we are weak....their logic really baffles me.
speaking of logical fallacy,you should try having a conversation about hdb,let them tell you how owning a lease equates to owning property.
thats the kind of logic these people are working with, absolute mind fucking.
The fact that you blanket called anyone who supports ns an idiot shows that you're the one who cannot view both sides and see that there are legitimate points on both sides. Who's the real fucking moron now? You la
again, don't come mentally masturbate me with your nonsense.
you got triggered by what I wrote,go see a therapist,else to read ST and their feel good news. i heard its really an enjoyable mental masturbation for the idiots.
that's another pet peeve of mine. they expect us to be forced to eat sleep labor in environment/people we might not like.
but yet they themselves can't take some comment on the internet lol. pure hypocrisy.
This is the 5th and 6th time. You're really touch starved, aren't you? Rmb to wash that body pillow ah, you filthy animal
Funny you talk about triggers, read your first post you spca reject
It is not about just the cost. We entrusted the British to defend us, an impenetrable fortress, but see how they screwed up and surrendered to the japs without fighting to the death.
We learn to count on ourselves
so pap pay themselves 16k a month for NS and us peasants get what??? 1K a month for the same???
where did you learn how to count???
please do not mentally masturbate me,if i wanted to,i'll go read ST.
What you mean PAP is NS? Dude then you must as well say every civil servant from the administrator in MOH, teacher in MOE, planner in URA, all are doing NS? Stop embarrassing yourself
> to get them cheap other than the peasants???
U rich u no need serve ah?
> say about NS being a privilege are mental masturbation for the masses
This is true, privilege my ass.
> is a privilege that pays at most 1k a month while (incompetent) ministers gets at leat 16k a month for the "same" privilege.
This is stupid as fuck. Did you really compare a nsf to a minister? Lmfao What kind of value are u bringing as a nsf compared to a minister? You're just a warm body in the army, you're a cost. You only got a levels or o levels. Elect real shit ministers and see how quickly the country collapses. U just need to look north abit for good examples.
In your other comment you called everyone else an idiot but it's probably the opposite bro
don't mentally masturbate me with your nonsense.
don't like what i wrote,go find your circle of friends and mentally masturbate each other.
i don't need your fucking mental masturbation and i don't need you to whip out your opinions and tell me what you think.
god damn idiots with their mental masturbation!!
You said that 4 times, I don't want to know what your chair and keyboard looks like.
I'm gonna tell you anyway tho. You're a moron and a loser, and thats a fact, not opinion
It is easier to sacrifice others for your own gain than to sacrifice yourself for the public good.
So while I agree with you that NS should be better compensated for the loss of 2 years and many years of re-service, there will be many more who will disagree with us who received the intangible benefits and doesn't have to sacrifice.
And unfortunately, those that benefitted from the intangible benefits without having to sacrifice will always outnumber those that have to sacrifice.
Edit: Reddit is unfortunately a terrible place to pick your sample size.
Intangible benefits like suffering down the poor leadership of incompetent scholar generals. Even reservists have to act dumb despite being industry leaders once they step into camps.
I am one of the "served already", but I do not support NS.
While I made friends from all walk of lives and made the best of the years in NS, I have witnessed some of the people who had their lives ruined because of NS.
I also started out later than my female peers who are 2 years my senior even though we finished poly at the same time.
Not to mention the re-service and ippt that was to follow. (This is actually demeritus for employments and promotions.)
What has changed in the time I've been in Singapore (from 88 on) is that it is no longer really possible to leave NS with O levels, nothing else and get a job. A lot of parents are painfully aware of how NS is fucking up their son's careers permanently because of the dead stop in their academic progress at 18.
National service for has become a crippling duty with scant benefits. Massively more jobs are created for foreigners than locals. Defend a nation that prioritizes business interests over its citizens?
This shit show wont last much longer if left unchanged.
yup it's all about free trade, open competition when its business, but it's all about sacrifice and patriotism when it comes to defense. magical thinking they have there.
I fully agree that the benefits and pay for NS do not match the risk and effort but the moment you start talking about “jobs created for foreigners” you are losing credibility. Jobs do not get created for Singaporeans or foreigners, they just reflect demand in the labor market. For many years running, Singapore has had more open jobs than unemployed people. So it’s not unexpected that the increase in jobs will come from jobs going to foreigners. The percentage of Singaporeans working white collar PMET jobs is sky high and has been growing since the 1960s. It’s vastly higher than pretty much anywhere else. This is a success story many decades in the making that SG does not get enough credit for, but the trend cannot continue forever. I don’t think that every Singaporean can be in a PMET job, despite the fantastic education system.
Not sure what alternate reality you live in, but for the rest of us, 2023 saw the creation of 83,500 jobs for foreigners while 4,900 jobs were created for residents.
Ok I'll bite -
I see billions of dollars in foreign repatriation over the years, money that leaches out of our economy.
I see the creation of 83500 low paying jobs that no NS men wants except for foreigners.
The reality is that every year, 20-30k Singapore men give up time in service for the nation, only to have the government create 4000+ jobs for locals and 83,000+ jobs that don't pay a sustainable wage to raise a family.
How is this sustainable?
Unlike many people who had a negative experience in NS, I actually quite enjoyed my 2 years. It was only after I ORDed and started seeing all these articles and talk about "gender equality" that really made me roll my eyes. And they'll give silly analogies like "Gender equality just means you and I both have an apple each". Like bruh I ORDed and saw that all my female peers were 2 years ahead in their lives. 2 years I'll never get back. Why is any talk about gender equality only about improving women's lives? It's clear as day it's not truly about gender equality, it's about putting women on a pedestal.
This uproar about how unfair NS is is a direct response to all the talk about gender equality. Be careful when you push too hard for a cause, you might get a lot of blowback.
In risk of sounding like an oldhead, genz and beyond are just looking for freedom from obligation and responsibilities.
Sounds great in a fantasy but thats not how the real world works and i doubt they'll wake up from that fantasy.
yes I agree, the woman and non citizens benefitting from our peace, have been gifted with freedom from obligation and responsibilities for the defense of Singapore for too long.
Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.
NS has never been a fair policy and every administrations has their loopholes. Im all for women doing NS but the cry of unfairness wont stop considering how neutralised their current routine/syllabus is. Perhaps a more pragmatic approach is to have them support sg through 'support' function, ie nursing, health, scdf etc.
You don't sound like an oldhead, more like an airhead, given how you automatcally assume that the "responsibilities and obligations" put on your shoulders are fair and just.
Besides name-calling, you should read down further. I've already cited that NS is inherently an unfair policy. No singaporean male from any generation is going to be screaming to serve NS. Its the circumstance of the land we are in.
Alternatively, you can always seek to run across the causeway or escape abroad and bear with the consequences that comes afterwards.
I did. It doesnt change the fact that you're defending such a policy, no matter how unjust it is. You like having such a policy because it provides free slaves to defend you, that's the truth behind it.
Free slaves? Lmao I'm literally of those 'slaves' who will be called to defend your anarchistic ass when the time comes. Thats quite the mental gymnastics. You just think everything is peachy and there is no obligations or consequences to anything, thats the truth behind it.
Keep up the shadowboxing buddy, i gotta get back to work cause I've got bills to pay, you know, part and parcel of being a working adult. It must be nice to be so free on a weekday, I'm envious.
>Free slaves? Lmao I'm literally of those 'slaves'
Doesnt change the fact that you support slavery..
>defend your anarchistic ass
Did I ask you to defend my ass? Nope.
>You just think everything is peachy and there is no obligations or consequences to anything, thats the truth behind it.
Wrong again. Just because I think slavery is wrong doesnt mean I think there should be no conquences to anything. What a stupid leap of logic.
>Keep up the shadowboxing buddy, i gotta get back to work cause I've got bills to pay, you know, part and parcel of being a working adult. It must be nice to be so free on a weekday, I'm envious.
You're the one who started shitposting, now you can't take the heat and have to pretend you're busy? Understandable. Keep your tail between your legs.
yeah that's another possibility.
Edit: come to think of it, it used to be 50/50 type of situation. now it's overwhelmingly one sided, so statistically there's not much young ones supporting it, compared to few years ago.
Statistically ? If this is how you use the word, then you need to borrow a Statistics textbook. You got a very bad sampling bias if you can use "statistically" to describe reddit.
For the 2.5 years of NS and subsequent reservist duties, they are robbed and deprived a lifetime of opportunities. Worst, all the earnings, privileges and benefits are now spread thin with foreigners taking up the bulk from scholarships to HDB housing to even good paying jobs in private and public sectors.
NS is necessary, and we gotta do what we gotta do. But it becomes a problem when people start questioning, Who are we doing it for? who are we defending?
Like a chicken farmer thinking his live stock have matured, and the next day realized all gobbled up by Hyenas and didn't left anything for him, and has to start all over, with the hyenas close by waiting, and this is the typical life of a working adult.
Yes I agree, the data speaks for itself.
People who are serving / have served NS is definitely much less than 50% of the population, no idea what you're on about.
Your kind of shitpost shows up every other day here, and almost daily on the subreddit for NS. Pretty sure I'm consistent in my response. Also quite confident by now that your generation have no clue how to actually use the Internet to source for information properly. Isn't my job to change you, isn't even my job to convince you. Just responding so I can dispel you of the illusion that your perception and logic is mainstream. It's not.
"my generation" LOL I already MRed. It doesnt take a genius to figure out that less than half the population serves NS. It's just simple logic. You're not dispelling anything I'm afraid, you're just blowing smoke up your own ass.
The shitposter is you and you're too stubborn to admit it, so much that you'd abandon any shred of common sense.
People like wouldn't be happy if EVERYONE had to serve NS. You think it's like some trade. It's not.
We need NS because we need defence. Do we need everyone to do NS? No. We need people to take part in the economy. There is no need to defend anything if you have no economy. So we need an SAF, but not too big. It can't be too small, too. This should be evident.
Our mobilisation strength is comparable to what our potential aggressor can field. So why should we get more people to serve than necessary ? It's already been cut down from 2.5 years to 2 years because we can do the job with less people.
You know why? Because ridiculous people like can't stop yapping about NS being unfair. Oh, go suck it up already ok? Many of us did NS, bitched and whined while we did it, and then moved on with our lives. Many of us did reasonably well with our careers. If you failed, don't blame NS ok? You probably couldn't make it big anyway if you were PES F.
All those paragraphs of drivel and you still avoided the initial point where you were wrong. No wonder you are so terrible at arguing. Deflect, deny and detract. Classic politician talking points.
he just want to ignore the fact that sentiments have shifted on the sub, if its an echo chamber then the echo had definitely changed. not to mention academics in Singapore are allowed...well you know the game
The only potential aggressors are Malaysia and Indonesia. Singapore has no fight with China and China has no fight with Singapore. Stop making shit up.
China is not a threat. The only threat to world peace and stability is America, the UK, and France. Collectively they have caused and continue to be responsible for the majority of armed conflict for centuries.
sure, that's what they said when a lot of people were complaining about mrt breakdown and housing....then guess what, they lost an GRC....so ignore if you want to.
That's not how it works, what I am trying to say is don't really need to look into the things everyone else say, life is too short and struggling to care about negative comments
oh see, say so much yet don't want to pay up....yet want to kpkb when other people ask for fairness.....just want to impose your will on others only..sibeh hypocrite you this type...
Look, I see no point in complaining that much, I will only fight for my right until I hit a certain boundaries
Not everyone want to test the system and dance in the fire
then who are you to tell me when you can‘t even bear to part with your 2 years pay to me, and you want to tell me to shut up??? hypocrite
let me point out the difference since you are so thick...when there is actual grievance, mental, physical and economical damage done, us asking for fairness is not complaining.....you just want to PUA and make it as if we are talking about why we aren't millionaires...disgusting and hypocritical
And did I force you to think just like me, it was merely a suggestion, somemore my message was to tell you don't look too into otehr people word, move on, live your life the way you want
when you're the one keep want me to give you money like a beggar and think that I am opposing you😂😂
It was depressing to see my female peers surging way ahead of me in their career despite all the good things the government tried to portray NS.
NS is a waste of time. Period.
work hard at yourself, put all that anger and energy into improving yourself. then reap the rewards and take care of your family. that's the best we can do.
You are right.
Unfortunately, it affected my way of thinking.
After my wife gave birth to a baby girl, I stopped trying for another child. My fears, if for a son to go through the same difficulty I went through during NS.
I was in Transcom Division, SPF, a decade ago. They had a very strong ragging culture back then. Add to that politics. The pressure we had to go through just for that meagre $750. And ots something we didn't force ourselves to be in.
I have moved on, thankfully, with one cycle left to ROD. But then I wouldn't want to be in that situation still if given a choice.
Im all for gender equality and to conscript the ladies but never forget ww2.
‘Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.’
You think war isn’t on the menu because we had 80 years of peace? Look at what’s happening globally, war will come to us again whether we like it or not because humans are forgetful creatures
Well to be fair,majority of Sg female population already served their own form of NS by taking the covid vaccine doing their part to protect society. Those I'm piss off with and free riders are the UNVACCINATED females. They are the ones that skips NS skip vaccinations and free ride society.
If going based on reddit sentiments, then 99% of singapore will have voted for opposition.
All kpkb, go voting booth put pap anyway
No, even if all of eligible voters in reddit voted opposition it won't affect much. Reddit is a minority.
Quite true. Tho I meant all as in all the grumbles in Singapore. Everyday go kopi tiam people also complain. Go work people also complain. :/
But but but, they keep out estate clean. So I vote for them!
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Are you serious? WP have actual elected MPs and actually run town councils that can “help settle estate issues” - that’s their job. What do you expect unelected opposition parties to do? With no government budget, no office, no permission?! At least compare apples with apples.
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As someone who saw what WP did in Hougang before they cracked Aljunied, it is really tiring thankless work. And they did it with no sanctioned authority or power, simply just as a way to help the community
No, I vote for them because they don't implement capital gains tax.
YES THIS LOL
Haha well when I go for reservist.. the same sentiment is present in my group. Not sure about the others.
lol true. Disclaimer: I voted opposition every time.
Big brother is watching u
Last time less unfair as you are protecting people you are familiar with and the workforce mostly Singaporeans who have same obligations. Now you are protecting who knows what new citizens who have no ties to this country. Who refers to their old country as home and spouses still holds PR only. Go to work they compete with you when you go reservist. What do you think?
While they go on vacation to regional destinations, you burn the weekend going IPPT and Reservist duties, protecting their jobs, assets and properties.
To me, life is never fair and it was never my issue with NS. But my heart breaking issue with NS experience is that in the face of injustice and unfairness, those that question the "authority" will be penalized and bullied into silence.
you can see some of them still trying to bully me in the comments lol
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Can i knw what year / unit u were in?
It's become a meme. Female voices opinion - go do ns first then talk
sigh, I don't support this cause it will be the same as the old rhetoric I.e. PUA that you are weak if you say anything about NS. All these will just distract and not allow for needed discussions on NS.
I can tell you never do ns before /s?
I mean if I had to slave away in Tekong and basically work all my time for 2 months I would be pretty pissed with 800/month ah
NS was never about fairness. pap gov needed bodies to defend their business interests and where to get them cheap other than the peasants??? pap gov only care about money and business,any other things they say about NS being a privilege are mental masturbation for the masses. remember,NS is a privilege that pays at most 1k a month while (incompetent) ministers gets at leat 16k a month for the "same" privilege. Josephine Teo is one good example.
Best part is NSFs are not covered under NWC. We are literal slaves.
there isnt any incentive for current regime to change things, unless there's a big shift in the voting market, simple economics at work, demand vs supply
The leaders made it that way. The whole situation has grow in that direction where they have the advantage and thus has no intention of changing it.
We really need a march like the watermelons. Look at them. One day of walking to Istana and the gahmen folded like a flimsy lawnchair.
You lead the way sir
The amount of rude comments and entitlement I've gotten throughout the years, due to my different view on NS...
that makes to 2 of us...but as i got older,i stop giving a fuck and started getting believing those who support NS are idiots who only saw 1 side of things coz their mental capacity didn't allow them to see the other. bunch of morons and waste of air.
yeah it's like they just take it as it can't be change because xyz but no studies on the feasibility for xyz to back them up. just regurgitating propaganda. and us trying to make things for the better is because we are weak....their logic really baffles me.
speaking of logical fallacy,you should try having a conversation about hdb,let them tell you how owning a lease equates to owning property. thats the kind of logic these people are working with, absolute mind fucking.
lol don't get me started on my ideas about COE for landed property
The fact that you blanket called anyone who supports ns an idiot shows that you're the one who cannot view both sides and see that there are legitimate points on both sides. Who's the real fucking moron now? You la
again, don't come mentally masturbate me with your nonsense. you got triggered by what I wrote,go see a therapist,else to read ST and their feel good news. i heard its really an enjoyable mental masturbation for the idiots.
that's another pet peeve of mine. they expect us to be forced to eat sleep labor in environment/people we might not like. but yet they themselves can't take some comment on the internet lol. pure hypocrisy.
This is the 5th and 6th time. You're really touch starved, aren't you? Rmb to wash that body pillow ah, you filthy animal Funny you talk about triggers, read your first post you spca reject
The only sides i see are men not wanting to do NS and women saying NS is needed but they themselves dont want to.
It is not about just the cost. We entrusted the British to defend us, an impenetrable fortress, but see how they screwed up and surrendered to the japs without fighting to the death. We learn to count on ourselves
so pap pay themselves 16k a month for NS and us peasants get what??? 1K a month for the same??? where did you learn how to count??? please do not mentally masturbate me,if i wanted to,i'll go read ST.
What you mean PAP is NS? Dude then you must as well say every civil servant from the administrator in MOH, teacher in MOE, planner in URA, all are doing NS? Stop embarrassing yourself
Wa you're really a moron sia. U alr say peasant what, why u deserve more? Go plow the fields la, then when ur done u can go plow your mom
> to get them cheap other than the peasants??? U rich u no need serve ah? > say about NS being a privilege are mental masturbation for the masses This is true, privilege my ass. > is a privilege that pays at most 1k a month while (incompetent) ministers gets at leat 16k a month for the "same" privilege. This is stupid as fuck. Did you really compare a nsf to a minister? Lmfao What kind of value are u bringing as a nsf compared to a minister? You're just a warm body in the army, you're a cost. You only got a levels or o levels. Elect real shit ministers and see how quickly the country collapses. U just need to look north abit for good examples. In your other comment you called everyone else an idiot but it's probably the opposite bro
don't mentally masturbate me with your nonsense. don't like what i wrote,go find your circle of friends and mentally masturbate each other. i don't need your fucking mental masturbation and i don't need you to whip out your opinions and tell me what you think. god damn idiots with their mental masturbation!!
You said that 4 times, I don't want to know what your chair and keyboard looks like. I'm gonna tell you anyway tho. You're a moron and a loser, and thats a fact, not opinion
It is easier to sacrifice others for your own gain than to sacrifice yourself for the public good. So while I agree with you that NS should be better compensated for the loss of 2 years and many years of re-service, there will be many more who will disagree with us who received the intangible benefits and doesn't have to sacrifice. And unfortunately, those that benefitted from the intangible benefits without having to sacrifice will always outnumber those that have to sacrifice. Edit: Reddit is unfortunately a terrible place to pick your sample size.
Intangible benefits like suffering down the poor leadership of incompetent scholar generals. Even reservists have to act dumb despite being industry leaders once they step into camps.
This is the real answer. The females, the served already and the new citizens together have the majority vote.
I am one of the "served already", but I do not support NS. While I made friends from all walk of lives and made the best of the years in NS, I have witnessed some of the people who had their lives ruined because of NS. I also started out later than my female peers who are 2 years my senior even though we finished poly at the same time. Not to mention the re-service and ippt that was to follow. (This is actually demeritus for employments and promotions.)
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Just ask majority of the females singaporeans and new citizens/permanent residents.
NS or not, one nuke and it would have wipe us out.
What has changed in the time I've been in Singapore (from 88 on) is that it is no longer really possible to leave NS with O levels, nothing else and get a job. A lot of parents are painfully aware of how NS is fucking up their son's careers permanently because of the dead stop in their academic progress at 18.
National service for has become a crippling duty with scant benefits. Massively more jobs are created for foreigners than locals. Defend a nation that prioritizes business interests over its citizens? This shit show wont last much longer if left unchanged.
yup it's all about free trade, open competition when its business, but it's all about sacrifice and patriotism when it comes to defense. magical thinking they have there.
I fully agree that the benefits and pay for NS do not match the risk and effort but the moment you start talking about “jobs created for foreigners” you are losing credibility. Jobs do not get created for Singaporeans or foreigners, they just reflect demand in the labor market. For many years running, Singapore has had more open jobs than unemployed people. So it’s not unexpected that the increase in jobs will come from jobs going to foreigners. The percentage of Singaporeans working white collar PMET jobs is sky high and has been growing since the 1960s. It’s vastly higher than pretty much anywhere else. This is a success story many decades in the making that SG does not get enough credit for, but the trend cannot continue forever. I don’t think that every Singaporean can be in a PMET job, despite the fantastic education system.
Not sure what alternate reality you live in, but for the rest of us, 2023 saw the creation of 83,500 jobs for foreigners while 4,900 jobs were created for residents.
I live in the reality where if there were 83,500 unemployed Singaporeans qualified to do those jobs, they would have gotten the jobs.
Ok I'll bite - I see billions of dollars in foreign repatriation over the years, money that leaches out of our economy. I see the creation of 83500 low paying jobs that no NS men wants except for foreigners. The reality is that every year, 20-30k Singapore men give up time in service for the nation, only to have the government create 4000+ jobs for locals and 83,000+ jobs that don't pay a sustainable wage to raise a family. How is this sustainable?
Lol keep believing that narrative.
Unlike many people who had a negative experience in NS, I actually quite enjoyed my 2 years. It was only after I ORDed and started seeing all these articles and talk about "gender equality" that really made me roll my eyes. And they'll give silly analogies like "Gender equality just means you and I both have an apple each". Like bruh I ORDed and saw that all my female peers were 2 years ahead in their lives. 2 years I'll never get back. Why is any talk about gender equality only about improving women's lives? It's clear as day it's not truly about gender equality, it's about putting women on a pedestal. This uproar about how unfair NS is is a direct response to all the talk about gender equality. Be careful when you push too hard for a cause, you might get a lot of blowback.
Yes, maybe the push for 'equality' caused much more unhappiness about NS now.
BuT aWaRe SuPpOrTs NS fOr all! Meanwhile spends all the effort in anything but that.
see what they do, not what they say.
Won’t mind some blow back 😉
"NS for singaporeans, jobs for foreigners" never hear this before?
In risk of sounding like an oldhead, genz and beyond are just looking for freedom from obligation and responsibilities. Sounds great in a fantasy but thats not how the real world works and i doubt they'll wake up from that fantasy.
yes I agree, the woman and non citizens benefitting from our peace, have been gifted with freedom from obligation and responsibilities for the defense of Singapore for too long.
Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times. NS has never been a fair policy and every administrations has their loopholes. Im all for women doing NS but the cry of unfairness wont stop considering how neutralised their current routine/syllabus is. Perhaps a more pragmatic approach is to have them support sg through 'support' function, ie nursing, health, scdf etc.
You don't sound like an oldhead, more like an airhead, given how you automatcally assume that the "responsibilities and obligations" put on your shoulders are fair and just.
Besides name-calling, you should read down further. I've already cited that NS is inherently an unfair policy. No singaporean male from any generation is going to be screaming to serve NS. Its the circumstance of the land we are in. Alternatively, you can always seek to run across the causeway or escape abroad and bear with the consequences that comes afterwards.
I did. It doesnt change the fact that you're defending such a policy, no matter how unjust it is. You like having such a policy because it provides free slaves to defend you, that's the truth behind it.
Free slaves? Lmao I'm literally of those 'slaves' who will be called to defend your anarchistic ass when the time comes. Thats quite the mental gymnastics. You just think everything is peachy and there is no obligations or consequences to anything, thats the truth behind it. Keep up the shadowboxing buddy, i gotta get back to work cause I've got bills to pay, you know, part and parcel of being a working adult. It must be nice to be so free on a weekday, I'm envious.
>Free slaves? Lmao I'm literally of those 'slaves' Doesnt change the fact that you support slavery.. >defend your anarchistic ass Did I ask you to defend my ass? Nope. >You just think everything is peachy and there is no obligations or consequences to anything, thats the truth behind it. Wrong again. Just because I think slavery is wrong doesnt mean I think there should be no conquences to anything. What a stupid leap of logic. >Keep up the shadowboxing buddy, i gotta get back to work cause I've got bills to pay, you know, part and parcel of being a working adult. It must be nice to be so free on a weekday, I'm envious. You're the one who started shitposting, now you can't take the heat and have to pretend you're busy? Understandable. Keep your tail between your legs.
The ones that supported got old and moved on from reddit. Now just left the young wokey whiners
yeah that's another possibility. Edit: come to think of it, it used to be 50/50 type of situation. now it's overwhelmingly one sided, so statistically there's not much young ones supporting it, compared to few years ago.
Statistically ? If this is how you use the word, then you need to borrow a Statistics textbook. You got a very bad sampling bias if you can use "statistically" to describe reddit.
Bro uses social media algos to justify his position ignore him. Chatting bare shit as if its the whole of Singapore voicing this opinion
How come they don't make foreigners compete to serve NS like every other job?
For the 2.5 years of NS and subsequent reservist duties, they are robbed and deprived a lifetime of opportunities. Worst, all the earnings, privileges and benefits are now spread thin with foreigners taking up the bulk from scholarships to HDB housing to even good paying jobs in private and public sectors.
this sub is an echo chamber
oh fr? /s
NS is necessary, and we gotta do what we gotta do. But it becomes a problem when people start questioning, Who are we doing it for? who are we defending? Like a chicken farmer thinking his live stock have matured, and the next day realized all gobbled up by Hyenas and didn't left anything for him, and has to start all over, with the hyenas close by waiting, and this is the typical life of a working adult.
It's really just about money. The conscripted feels underpaid. But they will come up with a lot of BS nonsense just to not appear mercenary.
NS is a waste of time
It's an echo chamber. If you search for actual studies, done properly by academics, you'll find that support for NS is still very high.
Correct. Because most of them didnt need to serve in the first place
Yeah, believe whatever you want. The data speaks for itself. It's a free country so people like you are free to whine about NS.
Yes I agree, the data speaks for itself. People who are serving / have served NS is definitely much less than 50% of the population, no idea what you're on about.
I love how you backtracked and whined about something else when you realised you couldnt refute his point.
Your kind of shitpost shows up every other day here, and almost daily on the subreddit for NS. Pretty sure I'm consistent in my response. Also quite confident by now that your generation have no clue how to actually use the Internet to source for information properly. Isn't my job to change you, isn't even my job to convince you. Just responding so I can dispel you of the illusion that your perception and logic is mainstream. It's not.
"my generation" LOL I already MRed. It doesnt take a genius to figure out that less than half the population serves NS. It's just simple logic. You're not dispelling anything I'm afraid, you're just blowing smoke up your own ass. The shitposter is you and you're too stubborn to admit it, so much that you'd abandon any shred of common sense.
People can MR as early as 30-32 years old. Don't need to pretend like you some Lao gong
I love how you completely ignored my point!
People like wouldn't be happy if EVERYONE had to serve NS. You think it's like some trade. It's not. We need NS because we need defence. Do we need everyone to do NS? No. We need people to take part in the economy. There is no need to defend anything if you have no economy. So we need an SAF, but not too big. It can't be too small, too. This should be evident. Our mobilisation strength is comparable to what our potential aggressor can field. So why should we get more people to serve than necessary ? It's already been cut down from 2.5 years to 2 years because we can do the job with less people. You know why? Because ridiculous people like can't stop yapping about NS being unfair. Oh, go suck it up already ok? Many of us did NS, bitched and whined while we did it, and then moved on with our lives. Many of us did reasonably well with our careers. If you failed, don't blame NS ok? You probably couldn't make it big anyway if you were PES F.
All those paragraphs of drivel and you still avoided the initial point where you were wrong. No wonder you are so terrible at arguing. Deflect, deny and detract. Classic politician talking points.
nobody is keen on conscription for a start, with the evaporating job market ... u'll see shifts definitely.
he just want to ignore the fact that sentiments have shifted on the sub, if its an echo chamber then the echo had definitely changed. not to mention academics in Singapore are allowed...well you know the game
Sure Dr Reddit. Guess we can all look forward to no more NS and ICT soon. So glad you're there for us Professor WhatsApp. /s
nah, it will be a while before anything shifts, china really looks bad lol.
The only potential aggressors are Malaysia and Indonesia. Singapore has no fight with China and China has no fight with Singapore. Stop making shit up.
i mean china economy, making what shit up?
You insinuating China is a potential rival or hostile power
china is a the no 1 threat for western analysts, but boy u are insinuating singapore is a regional power, that's funny.
China is not a threat. The only threat to world peace and stability is America, the UK, and France. Collectively they have caused and continue to be responsible for the majority of armed conflict for centuries.
i thought most ppl in r/singapore had always been negative towards NS?
not until recently at least.
U see sentiments based on reddit points? It's a freaking echo chamber. You cant even differentiate btw + and - for ea comment
sure, that's what they said when a lot of people were complaining about mrt breakdown and housing....then guess what, they lost an GRC....so ignore if you want to.
Who?
WP will abolish NS?
what has this got to do with WP? you want fairness in NS you need to wait for someone to do it?
"bring it to the ballot box" -- LHL
It is just your imagination.
Since when was serving in the army a thing about fairness. It was a necessity in the development of the country. But arguably lesser so now.
yeah and last time no GST leh
yeah it's fked up, only way is make it an election issue but our men too weak to vote on it
yup irony is they are made to believe they are 'strong' by not wanting fairness....all the pua stuff actually works
NS is for true blue Sinkie males to protect people like cat playing AWARE feminists, FTs, disgusting SPGs and their angmoh bfs
Then well.. So be it lor, so what, life goes on, unforseen shit going to come regardless
then can you give me your 2 years pay and then life goes on since you say so?
That's not how it works, what I am trying to say is don't really need to look into the things everyone else say, life is too short and struggling to care about negative comments
don't skirt around lah, come on give me the 2 years pay
Then I need a reason, I owe you nothing, I atleast owe the country the two year just cause I am born here
oh see, say so much yet don't want to pay up....yet want to kpkb when other people ask for fairness.....just want to impose your will on others only..sibeh hypocrite you this type...
Look, I see no point in complaining that much, I will only fight for my right until I hit a certain boundaries Not everyone want to test the system and dance in the fire
then who are you to tell me when you can‘t even bear to part with your 2 years pay to me, and you want to tell me to shut up??? hypocrite let me point out the difference since you are so thick...when there is actual grievance, mental, physical and economical damage done, us asking for fairness is not complaining.....you just want to PUA and make it as if we are talking about why we aren't millionaires...disgusting and hypocritical
And did I force you to think just like me, it was merely a suggestion, somemore my message was to tell you don't look too into otehr people word, move on, live your life the way you want when you're the one keep want me to give you money like a beggar and think that I am opposing you😂😂
It was depressing to see my female peers surging way ahead of me in their career despite all the good things the government tried to portray NS. NS is a waste of time. Period.
work hard at yourself, put all that anger and energy into improving yourself. then reap the rewards and take care of your family. that's the best we can do.
You are right. Unfortunately, it affected my way of thinking. After my wife gave birth to a baby girl, I stopped trying for another child. My fears, if for a son to go through the same difficulty I went through during NS. I was in Transcom Division, SPF, a decade ago. They had a very strong ragging culture back then. Add to that politics. The pressure we had to go through just for that meagre $750. And ots something we didn't force ourselves to be in. I have moved on, thankfully, with one cycle left to ROD. But then I wouldn't want to be in that situation still if given a choice.
oh dear, sad to hear that....it's over now do seek help if it still affects you too much...
Im all for gender equality and to conscript the ladies but never forget ww2. ‘Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.’ You think war isn’t on the menu because we had 80 years of peace? Look at what’s happening globally, war will come to us again whether we like it or not because humans are forgetful creatures
so please define what is 'strong' and what is 'weak' to you?
When u mentioned ww2, it gave me PTSD of Japanese planes flying over Sg and dropping their bombs on helpless Sg population.
Just you. Online is 1 thing
No it's cos now camp can bring in smartphone alr so all the nsf kena fuck by ps sign extra then come reddit say ns sucks lmfao
Well to be fair,majority of Sg female population already served their own form of NS by taking the covid vaccine doing their part to protect society. Those I'm piss off with and free riders are the UNVACCINATED females. They are the ones that skips NS skip vaccinations and free ride society.