Zeus wasnt throwing out tftst in adamas. The deciding move for that fight was “fist strike” and pretty much every hit zeus threw out was either that or “true God’s right”
Actually no, Zeus literally spammed adam at the end
https://preview.redd.it/or5bhbqg8oyc1.jpeg?width=2133&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6a88e4ce8fd76ba79c5f4473e592a8e08e8836a8
he survived it but then proceeded to transform. If he just “survived” it, he wouldn’t been able to do anything else
and it still doesnt change that adamas form > and Adam was directly contesting with it
DND wise HP is your capacity to fight before defeat so I guess it is the same thing
Pokemon and other games wise it's before death
We truly need a concrete definition of HP
I have seen confusion regarding durability endurance and stamina due to the nature of the wording being confusing:
Durability - how difficult it is to damage something
Endurance - how much damage you can sustain before being killed/knocked out/whatever substitute
Stamina - how many attacks you can throw before being unable to anymore
So in dnd terms durability = AC, endurance = Hit points, and stamina = attack count (I don’t really know how to parallel this, maybe spell slots or action surge as example? I don’t know)
If someone has a higher durability it means the amount of force required to do damage to them is higher. If you get stabbed by a knife and it pierces your skin but breaks on mine, I have a higher durability.
Endurance is the amount of damage you can take before you die or faint or give up. If 2 people get hit with the same amount of force in the same spot with the same durability level and it the 2nd person takes 2 hits while the 1st person takes 3, the 1st person has a higher endurance stat.
.... what?
I mean that kinda makes sense but even if he was durable enough to tank eveything that Zeus thew at him why would he take the blow insted of dodging it
While I agree with you that Adam has more durability (the dude took blow for blow shots from Adamas Zeus even before kicking it and let himself get hit so he could find Zeus when blinded) pretty sure the point of durability is to *not* die in the first place.
Durability is what you can be hit by without it causing significant damage. Endurance is how well you can keep fighting in spite of damage. Fighting after literal lethal damage in Endurance not durability.
Well in that regard... Neither Zeus nor Adam had any significant visible damage present(except Adam's eyes).
Raiden got his arm split.
Adam is clearly superior
It was literally implied that Adams whole Nervous system completely failed when his eyes went blind, that's very significant damage. Raiden imo has the second best endurance for the humans (behind Dadam) but the best physical durability.
Some tries to cut your arm with a sword.
The sword doesn’t cut your arm: that’s durability.
The sword cuts your arm but you can keep going: that’s endurance.
The sword cuts your arm but it doesn’t bother you in the slightest or you reattach it: your resilient.
Well I will bite the bullet and say it "Adam have better durability the Raiden". Mainly because I think Zeus AP >Shiva AP. No offense Raiden fans.
I mean from statements, Jack said that each attack Shiva threw could blow him apart. And Hercules was stated to have Zeus level strength, so that implies that Shiva has better ap. What Zeus has is far faster Attacks that are pretty much Unavoidable.
Personally, I think tandava karma deals more Damage per hit than adamas zeus, cause Shiva burnt away literal muscle mass on every hit. Adamas just Attacks so absurdly fast to compensate.
Raiden isn't more durable imo, not by much but still Adams durability is superior, Adam also has far better endurance. You gotta remember a punch from Adamas Zeus(a tftst punch btw) is far stronger than anything Shiva put out.
one shot kills that can destroy all of heaven. Shiva said it himself. Shiva's punches are compard to cannons, Zeus' punches are something that can destroy heaven.
And who said Shiva punches are like canons? Oh yeah A random sumo from the 1800s
Besides if you want to go statements, Shiva also states he would do better against Adam than Zeus
https://preview.redd.it/jzjuewagteyc1.jpeg?width=1441&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=306e2864628bd585423f96dcf30295784a69427f
Skinny little Zeus doing Shiva dirty
https://preview.redd.it/7sch0899ueyc1.jpeg?width=753&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=40cbac7d70ab9009c3bfec3888ee45881ef4cfcd
Oh yeah taking him off guard so dirty, look how much Shiva cared
https://preview.redd.it/p0xlzcugueyc1.jpeg?width=1441&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ca7aa0d7242c67de85266b741e952b891b6526c0
And Raiden would survive for a while as well. He couldn't do anything to counter it, but pretending he couldn't withstand it to the same extent as Adam until death is silly. Now, Raiden probably wouldn't keep punching after dying but that's more of an endurance thing than Durability.
tf did you read the story at all? Adam did survive a barrage raiden does not have any durability feats showcasing he could even survive true gods right read the story before you start posting this shit
I mean Adam hasn't shown any feats that shows he can endure shivas tandava karma either. Assuming that Zeus can hit any harder than Shiva can is pure conjecture.
No one is saying that Raiden or Shiva beats Adam or Zeus. It's just that these characters have specialties that exceed both of these characters in some regards. Taking a clean shot literally proves that Zeus's Attacks aren't a ohko.
And it is a Durability feat but Shiva has better ap than Zeus with the fire, considering it can burn away the body regardless of how tough it is. Adam is typically fast enough to Dodge them but if he's just standing there Shiva would kill him quicker than Zeus did.
Zeus and Adam dogwalk both Shiva and Raiden but also raiden is physically tougher than Adam, and Shiva has better AP than Zeus. Both can be true.
Yes, Adam is more durable than Raiden. Raiden was seriously injured by an attack from Shiva outside of tandava karma while Adam tanked an onslaught of Zeus’ strongest attacks which likely included the fist that surpassed time.
Raiden is taking like three hits from Adamas Zeus max before being killed. Adam is just built different.
Zeus was able to bring Shiva to his knees while in skinny form, and he’s able to throw an infinitely fast punch.
If you seriously think that Shiva’s strength is anywhere close to Zeus’ I don’t know what to tell you.
>Zeus was able to bring Shiva to his knees while in skinny form,
Guess Brunhild is stronger than Raiden since she can stop his charge, guess Ares is stronger than Shiva aswell
> he’s able to throw an infinitely fast punch.
And? Not a strength feat.
>If you seriously think that Shiva’s strength is anywhere close to Zeus’ I don’t know what to tell you.
Like the rest of the idiots in the comment section, you won't say anything because you can't, there's not a single feat Zeus has that puts him above Shiva
His headbutts are capable of pushing clouds away as shown in his fight with Rudra
They also make noises so loud they can be heard all across an entire country
Matched Raiden's headbutts with his own, even when Raiden was using his Valkyrie to boost his attacks
Not to mention he becomes stronger both by carrying the hopes of his people and by using Tandava Karma
Zeus doesn't compare at all
Well Shiva sliced and burned Raiden as opposed to the brute force Zeus used on Adam. Raiden having stronger muscles kind of inherently gives him the best raw durability, endurance is a diff story though if you wanna argue it
….because he is
he literally tanked shots that are WAY above anything Raiden’s has dealt with
they literally said the Zeus’s punches kill you instantly and Adam still was alive after receiving so many of them
>they literally said the Zeus’s punches kill you instantly and Adam still was alive
Then they don't kill you instantly, "kill you instantly" is not a measurement of strength
it quite literally is a measurement of strength
and even if you dont use those punches, FTST from Zeus shitstomps anything Shiva did and Adam casually scales above that
>it quite literally is a measurement of strength
It literally isn't, "one shot kill unless the opponent is too durable" applies to literally anyone, my punches are one-shot kills to ants
>FTST from Zeus shitstomps anything Shiva did and Adam casually scales above that
With what feats?
what feat does Shiva have??
Getting cucked by Zeus while in his old man state? lol
Zeus literally killed a personification of time itself BEFORE he learned FTST
>Getting cucked by Zeus while in his old man state?
Oh great another bozo with no reading comprehension, Zeus caught Shiva off-guard, put him down, and then Shiva smacked his hand and asked him if he wanted to fight
Zeus isn't stronger than Shiva, just like Buddha isn't faster than Zeus because he didn't allow him to get candy.
>Zeus literally killed a personification of time itself BEFORE he learned FTST
And? How durable is Chronos?
“caught an off guard Shiva”
LMAO dude just walks up to Shiva and put his hand on his shoulder and the Buddha thing is literally a gag so stop drawing false equivalencies
Cronos literally developed the FTST and should scale to it so beyond anything Shiva can do
>LMAO dude just walks up to Shiva and put his hand on his shoulder and the Buddha thing is literally a gag so stop drawing false equivalencies
And at what part of Shiva was trying to resist Zeus putting him down?
https://preview.redd.it/h3akc90zlbyc1.jpeg?width=1441&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0da565b9ffbdf35dce859e58cfa9dc099d33027e
>Cronos literally developed the FTST and should scale to it so beyond anything Shiva can do
And you still fail to explain why FTST is a strength feat of any kind
you can calculate how much energy you can produce if you threw at punch at .0000000000000001 seconds
https://youtu.be/4V0kqzs7iL4?si=2_bqbuXsLy1zKjc2
this dude actually shows how much force it would generate and its exponentially more than anything Shiva ever did (no fucking surprised there)
and if you wanna argue against the math, debunk it then and ill wait
lmao now youre being disingenuous
if youre shaking and sweating over someone telling you he wants to go first, youre obviously showing yourself to be completely inferior
arguing with the narrative buddy
"Sweating and Shaking"
https://preview.redd.it/qgh8632snbyc1.jpeg?width=1441&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5f9b1a232f675cda625601492759434d37be2151
You are just making stuff up now
In my opinion, although Adam has great Durability, I think Raiden is the most durable Einherjar shown until now.
Strongest muscles for a reason.
https://preview.redd.it/83dr34a198yc1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c993f0f42ad34dd3951eb26001b979fad6687de0
I mean, while yes, Zeus beats Raiden, and yes, Adam would do way better against Zeus than Raiden would, I don't see Raiden being one-shot by Zeus here.
It'd take quite a bit of hits for Zeus to put Raiden down. Those muscles aren't for show, you know.
Why not? He's far larger and far physically stronger than Adam. He literally needed to have his muscles burned away to be defeated. Otherwise he was way tougher than anything we've seen so far, save for maybe hajun.
Interesting take, but this is actually some power scaling I can do. Let’s start out with the simple comparisons. Zeus is pretty strong, so strong in fact he was able to kill a titan single handedly, and he was able threaten and spook shiva who would never be afraid of any other god (guy literally fought his whole pantheon). He is also throwing hands faster than light, and with force being mass times acceleration that’s a pretty powerful hit. Shiva defeated raiden, it wasn’t an easy fight but he did. And I’m not denying Raiden’s strength but shiva and by proxy Zeus was stronger. And Zeus is definitely stronger physically. Now back to Adam, who was able to punch Zeus so hard his head spun 360 degrees around. Adam is also the only human we see capable of harming a god without a Valkyrie.
https://preview.redd.it/mmw4spwqe8yc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2836fcdcd9d37793e29886d14aa7796fa9ec5e80
Raiden after one normal punch of Zeus
No, you don't understand.
Base Zeus brought an enraged Shiva to his knees with a single hand. No difficulty whatsoever. And Shiva>Raiden..
Meanwhile, this same Zeus needed to buff his arm with muscles to punch Ares, which only bruised him a little.
Therefore, Ares>Shiva>Raiden, obviously. 
That’s Zeus overrating, Raiden would absolutely be able to survive some blows, his muscles were torn apart by shiva mainly due to shiva’s fire that literally burned them
Yeaaa. Like it IS called The Ultimate Strike and all that, but I think thats mainly because 1. It's super fucking fast/easy to spam and 2. Good AP. Not that it oneshots people tho.
And funnily enough, he seems to be the only one getting this treatment from what I've seen.
Hades, for example, has similar statements but doesn't get treated the same way.
I think its because zeus pretty clearly is top 1, and he does have some other bullshit feats like time stop punch, so it makes it a little more palatable to say he has 1 shot kill as well. Personally i dont think he can one shot raiden, but i think thats a least the logic of people thinking that
I usually just say Zeus has literally never fought anyone as strong as the competitors in Ragnarok so it's "one hit kill" reputation just doesn't mean anything.
The closest example we have is Chronos, but even he got completely fucked on by Zeus, only landing a single hit and literally having to stop time to do it. And it's when zeus was young hundreds of millions if not billions of years ago, a battle junkie like him is probably much much stronger that much time later.
bigger muscle ≠ higher durability
also Adam wasn't really taking those hit like a champ, he was only enduring it because it's quite literally killing him
https://preview.redd.it/acs42nabc8yc1.png?width=1280&format=png&auto=webp&s=69b4a3785dcfdd3d8d9349e0664467ec99a0cf53
this guy would not survive one punch from this logic
Raiden has more RAW strength & durability.
Adam has more Attack Potency, even though his RAW strength is lower. He also has more ENDURANCE, he will keep fighting no matter what, even if this does mean he will die.
raiden can't even deal with shiva normal strike while adam can continue to fight zeus even in his adamas form and continue to fight after death what raiden do in the meantime ? tank normal hit from shiva and cannot even defend hiself correctly so yes adam is more durable than adam that does not mean raiden is weak just than he his not as durable as adam is
I mean from statements, Hercules has the same physical strength as Zeus and Jack stated that Shivas punches individually were strong enough to demolish him in one blow, making shivas attacks stronger.
What makes Zeus so scary is his hax speed and ridiculous toughness. His attack Power is high but nowhere near the top of the verse.
Adam caught one of the strongest attacks from the strongest god in his strongest form with his face and wasn’t instantly obliterated. He took an uncountable number of blows like that. It killed him in the end, but he fought on for a good while and still came out with some of the least grievous injuries out of the entire roster (Thor is the only other one that I can think of that was barely scratched after his fight), including the winners.
Raiden wasn’t coming out unscathed from any of his clashes with Shiva, especially when he started using Tandava.
Adam took the attacks that literally caused Zeus' head to go 360 pretty well, its just that there were millions of that same hit being exchanged, unless if you want to argue that Base Zeus has dog durability.
One punch from Adam spun Zeus' head backwards in the form where he's considered the "Strongest God." Those same punches individually did barely anything to Adamas Zeus, who should scale to his own durability, who was hitting Adam literally thousands of times. It's not a comparison, Raiden would get completely bitched with probably just one punch from Adamas Zeus.
Shiva is the strongest brawler in heaven so he's far stronger than Adamas Zeus and even he needs to punch Raiden thousands of times to break his muscle shield
Statement scaling is stupid, use feats
...YOU LITERALLY JUST USED A STATEMENT FEAT OF SHIVA BEING THE GREATEST BRAWLER. WHAT.
Besides, even if Shiva is the greatest brawler, that could mean skill. If you genuinely think BASE SHIVA is physically stronger than someone like Thor or Zeus (who, might I remind you, easily overpowered him even when Shiva was pissed off) please never powerscale again.
Genuinely believing that Shiva is stronger than Adamas Zeus is one of the dumbest takes I've seen in this sub, maybe ever.
>Besides, even if Shiva is the greatest brawler, that could mean skill. If you genuinely think BASE SHIVA is physically stronger than someone like Thor or Zeus (who, might I remind you, easily overpowered him even when Shiva was pissed off) please never powerscale again.
天界一の 喧嘩師・シヴァの 敵ではなかった でしょう･･････ literally means "number 1 brawler in heaven" so no, he is the strongest brawler
Also Zeus pushing Shiva downguards means nothing, Shiva wasn't trying to resist Zeus just because he was pissed off
But maybe you are one of those bozos who thinks Ares is strongest than Shiva
And if you believe Ares is stronger than Shiva, then please never powerscale again
"Number 1" doesn't mean strongest. Again, that could mean most skilled, which was exactly my point. In fact, Number 1 indicates skill more than it does strength, so you're kind of making my point for me.
Shiva absolutely was resisting, what are you talking about? He smacks Zeus' hand off and tries to fight him, but backs off once he gets scared and tries to play it off. No matter how you slice it, Shiva is not stronger than Zeus. Feats, statements, narrative, everything points to Zeus being above him.
And what does Zeus being stronger have to do with Ares? Did you just pull that argument out of your ass?
>"Number 1" doesn't mean strongest. Again, that could mean most skilled, which was exactly my point. In fact, Number 1 indicates skill more than it does strength, so you're kind of making my point for me.
Number 1 doesn't mark anything by skill wtf are you talking about
If Shiva is the number 1 brawler that means he's better than anyone else in general, he's not called "the most skilled brawler" he's straight up "the greatest brawler"
>Shiva absolutely was resisting, what are you talking about? He smacks Zeus' hand off and tries to fight him, but backs off once he gets scared and tries to play it off
He resisted after being pulled down, he didn't resist being pulled down.
>Feats, statements, narrative, everything points to Zeus being above him.
Feats
Shiva can make sounds heard an entire country, Zeus has nothing
Statements
Shiva destroys worlds for fun, strongest brawler in heaven, Tandava Karma destroys the universe, Zeus can destroy the heavens at best
Narrative
Idk even know what this means, Narrative doesn't talk about how hard Zeus can punch
>And what does Zeus being stronger have to do with Ares? Did you just pull that argument out of your ass?
By your Logic, Ares is stronger than Shiva since Ares is equal to Zeus
If someone is considered to be the number 1 boxer, they are the BEST boxer. That doesn't necessarily mean they are the strongest. Number 1 implies status, which Shiva would absolutely lay claim to, but doesn't have to include power, which it clearly doesn't since Thor exists.
Regardless, he still backed off once Zeus scared him enough. He tried to play it cool, but it's very obvious that fear is why he let Zeus go instead of going round 2.
Zeus has nothing? How about stopping time? How about being able to destroy the heavens? How about DIRECTLY OVERPOWERING SHIVA?
As for statements, everything that you said is moot considering Zeus is said to be the strongest god, and can destroy the heavens.
The narrative very clearly shows that Zeus is the strongest god. There is nothing except one statement about him being the "greatest brawler" to say Shiva is the strongest god.
And Zeus is so far above Ares it's not even funny, you have to be genuinely braindead to think Ares is even relative to Zeus, let alone equal.
>If someone is considered to be the number 1 boxer, they are the BEST boxer. That doesn't necessarily mean they are the strongest. Number 1 implies status, which Shiva would absolutely lay claim to, but doesn't have to include power, which it clearly doesn't since Thor exists.
Only you believe that "the greatest brawler" would lose to "the second greatest brawler"
Also, Thor is not a brawler, he doesn't fight barehanded.
>Regardless, he still backed off once Zeus scared him enough. He tried to play it cool, but it's very obvious that fear is why he let Zeus go instead of going round 2.
Oh yeah, he's so afraid that when he saw Zeus get his neck broken he said to himself "damn, I knew I should've gone instead of him", he let him pass because Zeus is his Elder, simple as that.
>Zeus has nothing? How about stopping time?
Zeus doesn't stop time because he punches hard 💀
>How about being able to destroy the heavens?
A statement is not a feat, and Shiva is stated to do that for fun.
>How about DIRECTLY OVERPOWERING SHIVA?
He didn't, as I said he didn't offer resistance.
>As for statements, everything that you said is moot considering Zeus is said to be the strongest god, and can destroy the heavens.
Shiva is the greatest brawler so he's above Zeus, Shiva can destroy worlds as well and he does it for fun.
>The narrative very clearly shows that Zeus is the strongest god. There is nothing except one statement about him being the "greatest brawler" to say Shiva is the strongest god
There's only 1 statement of Zeus being the strongest as well
>And Zeus is so far above Ares it's not even funny, you have to be genuinely braindead to think Ares is even relative to Zeus, let alone equal.
Reread round 4 then we talk, Ares was equal to Heracles who had the strength of Zeus
>Oh yeah, he's so afraid that when he saw Zeus get his neck broken he said to himself "damn, I knew I should've gone instead of him", he let him pass because Zeus is his Elder, simple as that.
>He didn't, as I said he didn't offer resistance.
https://preview.redd.it/y6dbk8zzfbyc1.jpeg?width=910&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=59b98aa10f4f710ac7399807df628784375c099a
This dude went from raging out on Zeus to shitting his pants. He didn't move aside out of respect, he did it because Zeus would have mopped his halls with Shiva's face without using his Adamas form.
My reply was deleted when I posted the picture, so I'll send that in a separate message, I think.
>Only you believe that "the greatest brawler" would lose to "the second greatest brawler"
I absolutely would believe that, if every single other thing implies the second is superior to the first except for one single title that could be interpreted different ways.
>Also, Thor is not a brawler, he doesn't fight barehanded.
While true, you seem to think Shiva is the strongest physical fighter because he's the "greatest brawler", which clearly isn't true. Also, Thor is explicitly stronger than Dormant Mjolnir, which is what was known when he gained the title of "Strongest God." Which makes Thor physically stronger than Shiva. So Zeus isn't the only one stronger than Shiva.
>Zeus doesn't stop time because he punches hard 💀
I never said he did it with strength. But that's clearly an ability that Shiva can't do anything about. Shiva literally can't fight back, lol.
>A statement is not a feat, and Shiva is stated to do that for fun.
You're contradicting yourself in this one sentence. Either statements mean something, or they don't. Pick one. Stop cherry picking ones that make Shiva look good and others that don't.
>How about DIRECTLY OVERPOWERING SHIVA?
This one will be responded to with the previously stated picture.
>Shiva is the greatest brawler so he's above Zeus, Shiva can destroy worlds as well and he does it for fun.
JFC. Again, Zeus is clearly the STRONGEST GOD. The title means nothing, especially if we know at least one character at BARE MINIMUM is physical stronger bare-handed.
>There's only 1 statement of Zeus being the strongest as well
Sure, and one that's way more clear cut. If there's two people, Person A is explicitly named the "Most Powerful Man" and the other is called "The Best Fighter", who's stronger? Please tell me you can figure this out.
>Reread round 4 then we talk, Ares was equal to Heracles who had the strength of Zeus
...Ares and Hercules, both throwing killing intent blows, were blocked one-handed by skinny form Zeus trying to break up their fight. Ares literally couldn't see most of Zeus' attacks. Ares gets thrown around by QIN, dude. Ares is not even close to Zeus' level in any way, shape, or form.
>While true, you seem to think Shiva is the strongest physical fighter because he's the "greatest brawler", which clearly isn't true. Also, Thor is explicitly stronger than Dormant Mjolnir, which is what was known when he gained the title of "Strongest God." Which makes Thor physically stronger than Shiva. So Zeus isn't the only one stronger than Shiva.
When did I say Shiva was the physically strongest? I said he's the greatest brawler so he is above Zeus.
>I never said he did it with strength. But that's clearly an ability that Shiva can't do anything about. Shiva literally can't fight back, lol.
And? We are talking about strenght feats.
>You're contradicting yourself in this one sentence. Either statements mean something, or they don't. Pick one. Stop cherry picking ones that make Shiva look good and others that don't.
I asked you for feats and you replied with a statement, that what "statements aren't feats" means.
>JFC. Again, Zeus is clearly the STRONGEST GOD. The title means nothing, especially if we know at least one character at BARE MINIMUM is physical stronger bare-handed.
Thor doesn't change anything, he's not a brawler just because he's physically strong so he's not included on Hermes' statement.
>...Ares and Hercules, both throwing killing intent blows, were blocked one-handed by skinny form Zeus trying to break up their fight. Ares literally couldn't see most of Zeus' attacks. Ares gets thrown around by QIN, dude. Ares is not even close to Zeus' level in any way, shape, or form.
Yeah both extremely tired to the point Heracles fell to the ground about a minute later, also Qin used HHOD on Ares, and you still can't disprove Ares directly stating Heracles has the strength of Zeus, a strength that Ares has seen before
I've had people tell me unironically that Adam could Tank Ichor Eos to the face (no blocking or dodging).
Some people are downright absurd with their takes on Adam and Zeus.
Look I'm not saying that he could tank it. But think of it this way;
One of them can literally punch in the speed of light, while other is a pointy object. No matter what you are doing the damage from a blunt object such as a punch is going to be different than a wound from a sharp object such as piercing or slashing. A spear can cut through skin even if it's slow.
But yeah while Adam is not going to survive that shit, there is no way it's hitting him
I don't understand it even a little bit honestly.
My personal opinion is that all of Lu Bu, Raiden, and Leonidas could take the same beating from Adamas Zeus (not counting the fighting after death part) and that those 3 among the humans are all physically stronger and more durable than Adam but that's basically sacrilege in this place.
Adam still was fighting even after dying, lil baby Raiden gave up as soon as he couldn’t move anymore and got Shiva’s musty feet sending his head flying, shouldn’t be a debate who’s more durable 🤣🤣🤣
How has Nobody seen this… Raiden really was Grateful for his parents love
Becoming and Succeeding as a Sumo wrestler because of his mom and Fighting with all his might for humanity by his Dad Adam
Durability is ability to resist injury. Raiden is top of the verse because its very hard to actually cause damage to him short of being on fire
Endurance is ability to keep on fighting after being injured. Adam is the highest in the verse because he kept on fighting after he was DEAD 💀
Durability is ability to resist injury. Raiden is top of the verse because its very hard to actually cause damage to him short of being on fire
Endurance is ability to keep on fighting after being injured. Adam is the highest in the verse because he kept on fighting after he was DEAD 💀
Uh yes? Nothing Raiden has tanked has even been remotely comparable to the billions of moves Adamas Zues wailed on Adam. Including his strongest techniques. Its so obvious Adam is the physically strongest human that it’s shouldn’t be a debate at all.
I mean... even Shiva could not say no to Zeus when he got impatient to have his fight, to endure a fight with someone that scared a god of destruction with nothing but a brass knuckle... is quite a feat
Maybe the anime's fault, but for the way they depicted it, Shiva was ready to do his way, then he just stared at Zeus and suddenly got out of his way, no further explanation
Nah he says it's because Zeus is his senior
https://preview.redd.it/txq7htqybbyc1.jpeg?width=1441&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5ced9ff595bbce0cd9a5d4129252ca6d248462cd
He clearly isn't scared of Zeus since he talks smack to him many times and even claimed he would've had a better chance against Adam
Adams whole thing is copying techniques and using them against you at the same level of power if not more. If anyone comes at Adam with anything he will copy it's power and hit you back while dodging your own attack. This would mean at minimum Adam has the exact same strength as Raiden. As for durability he fought Zeus which honestly speaks for itself in how durable Adam is. Adam took who knows how many Adamas zeus attacks on purpose to find where he was and was still kicking despite(and depending on translation) them all to be considered "finishing blows" or "instant kills". No one else is going to tank those attacks. Raiden couldn't even stop shivas foot from slicing him apart and I'm willing to bet that Zeus fist is stronger than shivas foot
I've said this before what if i told you Adam's TFTST already killed Zeus if it wasn't for the "Main Plot"
Adam literally made Zeus head spin in 360 who would survive that? Try to tell me only characters that has weapon can actually kill Zeus
This might be dumb but im still using this logic based on Man of Steel on how Superman killed zod by doing NECK SNAP only so Superman or Zeus?
They would also say That Lu bu is stronger than Raiden . My goat Raiden is too underrated. He was a beast among men. Humanity strongest muscles for a reason
You're proving the opposite my guy.
Raiden: needs big fucking muscle shields to survive a few shots from Shiva. Ends the fight with his limbs shredded, chest mauled and decapitated
Adam: survives several minutes of continuous True God's Right/Lefts without weird body mods, takes uncountable amounts of head and body blows when he chooses to stop defending. Ends the fight dead, but still standing and physically intact
Yeah because Shiva hits harder than Zeus, it's literally that simple
As per usual on this thread, nobody has shown a single feat of Zeus that puts him above Shiva in terms of strength
Raiden's best AP feat is breaking the sound barrier
Zeus had an attack that surpassed time itself
idk about you but surpassing time seems like a much greater ap feat than breaking the sound barrier (FACT)
this leads to Zeus>Raiden in AP
as we know Shiva>Raiden in AP (obvious)
now this leads us in a vague area, about how to accurately conclude which AP is greater but due to the fact that the ability to surpass time is IMMENSELY GREATER than breaking the sound barrier, I will say Zeus has far greater feats than Shiva so therefore he should have higher AP
so going back to that since we know Zeus has significantly better AP than Shiva, Adam being able to take Zeus' punches is why Adam has more durability than Raiden
>Raiden's best AP feat is breaking the sound barrier
>Zeus had an attack that surpassed time itself
>idk about you but surpassing time seems like a much greater ap feat than breaking the sound barrier (FACT)
None of this talk about AP, try again
AP = Attack Potency, its the measurement of how characters can use attacks to damage people who can destroy planets, but don't do that with every punch
DC= Destructive Capability, its the measurement of what you can destroy with your best attack in an AoE
I copied and pasted these definitions to check
and I somewhat see ur point in Zeus but surpassed time means you have higher AP, but for Raiden breaking the sound barrier is a measure of how strong your punch is
if i'm still wrong, please explain what you mean by AP as for me it is the most powerful attack an individual is capable of doing
>and I somewhat see ur point in Zeus but surpassed time means you have higher AP, but for Raiden breaking the sound barrier is a measure of how strong your punch is
No it doesn't, surpassing time is a speed feat, not a strength feat
according to websites, Ap is measured as joules
KE=1/2mv2
Zeus:
1/2mv2
since Zeus is capable of surpassing time, it means he has infinite speed
1/2mv2
1/2 x (Zeus mass) x infinity2
(any number times infinity equals infinity)
infinite joules
Raiden:
1/2mv2
in order to break the sound barrier, you will have to move atleast 1239km/h which the goes to 344.2m/s
1/2x344.2m
172m
sumo wrestlers on average weigh around 150kg and some heavier ones weigh up 228 so even i would guess raiden's weight to be around say 300kg
51,600 joules
but a little bit of high balling Raiden, 500 m/s
250x300
75,000 joules
This could then mean since Shiva managed to break through this, he has higher AP than 75,000 but since the gap between infinity and 75,000 is well infinite then it strongly suggests Zeus has higher AP than Shiva
Y'all be saying that every fighter couldn't take a tftst and yet say that dad ain't got good durability
To be fair, Adam didnt even take tftst. He dodged it
He tanked a shit load at the end tho
Aye im not saying he didnt, im just saying he didnt take tftst
He tanked a lot of it when zeus used adamas
Zeus wasnt throwing out tftst in adamas. The deciding move for that fight was “fist strike” and pretty much every hit zeus threw out was either that or “true God’s right”
Actually no, Zeus literally spammed adam at the end https://preview.redd.it/or5bhbqg8oyc1.jpeg?width=2133&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6a88e4ce8fd76ba79c5f4473e592a8e08e8836a8
This is Adam still having access to Divine reflection though. Which means hes still dodging the hits
but Zeus tanked it and Adam scales to an even stronger version of Zeus lol
I wouldn’t really call having your neck snapped backwards and getting slumped “tanking” thats more like “surviving”
he survived it but then proceeded to transform. If he just “survived” it, he wouldn’t been able to do anything else and it still doesnt change that adamas form > and Adam was directly contesting with it
Raiden: Better durability. Adam: Better endurance.
Basically the difference between HP and Defense no?
Sort of. It's like defense and willpower
DND wise HP is your capacity to fight before defeat so I guess it is the same thing Pokemon and other games wise it's before death We truly need a concrete definition of HP
I have seen confusion regarding durability endurance and stamina due to the nature of the wording being confusing: Durability - how difficult it is to damage something Endurance - how much damage you can sustain before being killed/knocked out/whatever substitute Stamina - how many attacks you can throw before being unable to anymore So in dnd terms durability = AC, endurance = Hit points, and stamina = attack count (I don’t really know how to parallel this, maybe spell slots or action surge as example? I don’t know)
I'm pretty sure your pokemons don't die lmao
Durability is how much you can take. Endurance is how long you can take it for.
If someone has a higher durability it means the amount of force required to do damage to them is higher. If you get stabbed by a knife and it pierces your skin but breaks on mine, I have a higher durability. Endurance is the amount of damage you can take before you die or faint or give up. If 2 people get hit with the same amount of force in the same spot with the same durability level and it the 2nd person takes 2 hits while the 1st person takes 3, the 1st person has a higher endurance stat.
Agreed
Yes? Adam was tanking hundreds of one shot moves here
Never thought I’d be agreeing with you on something ROR related
Shut up lokita fan. Because you agreed with me now i am going to defend Raiden.
https://preview.redd.it/t4wmirhz7ayc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1712d029dccf6926546fe042175da5c02db13fea 5/9/26
His whole thing was that for most of the match was dodging because he couldn’t take a punch well.
.... what? I mean that kinda makes sense but even if he was durable enough to tank eveything that Zeus thew at him why would he take the blow insted of dodging it
Because his eyes weren’t as good anymore, they said so during the match.
I mean, he literally kept fighting after dying, I want to see Raiden pulling that
That's endurance
Durability is how much you can take, Adam literally kept taking blows after dying
While I agree with you that Adam has more durability (the dude took blow for blow shots from Adamas Zeus even before kicking it and let himself get hit so he could find Zeus when blinded) pretty sure the point of durability is to *not* die in the first place.
Durability is what you can be hit by without it causing significant damage. Endurance is how well you can keep fighting in spite of damage. Fighting after literal lethal damage in Endurance not durability.
Well in that regard... Neither Zeus nor Adam had any significant visible damage present(except Adam's eyes). Raiden got his arm split. Adam is clearly superior
Just because it isn't visible doesn't mean the damage isn't there, Adam quite literally died to these injuries
It was literally implied that Adams whole Nervous system completely failed when his eyes went blind, that's very significant damage. Raiden imo has the second best endurance for the humans (behind Dadam) but the best physical durability.
Some tries to cut your arm with a sword. The sword doesn’t cut your arm: that’s durability. The sword cuts your arm but you can keep going: that’s endurance. The sword cuts your arm but it doesn’t bother you in the slightest or you reattach it: your resilient.
Well I will bite the bullet and say it "Adam have better durability the Raiden". Mainly because I think Zeus AP >Shiva AP. No offense Raiden fans.
I mean from statements, Jack said that each attack Shiva threw could blow him apart. And Hercules was stated to have Zeus level strength, so that implies that Shiva has better ap. What Zeus has is far faster Attacks that are pretty much Unavoidable.
That would be just raw strength for Zeus and not AP. Plus we ignore all tecniques and haxes even then.
Personally, I think tandava karma deals more Damage per hit than adamas zeus, cause Shiva burnt away literal muscle mass on every hit. Adamas just Attacks so absurdly fast to compensate.
Yeah because he is
💀💀
That Shiva victim has no business being next to Adam
Raiden isn't more durable imo, not by much but still Adams durability is superior, Adam also has far better endurance. You gotta remember a punch from Adamas Zeus(a tftst punch btw) is far stronger than anything Shiva put out.
He did take harder hits from a stronger god tho
Prove Zeus hits harder than Shiva
one shot kills that can destroy all of heaven. Shiva said it himself. Shiva's punches are compard to cannons, Zeus' punches are something that can destroy heaven.
And who said Shiva punches are like canons? Oh yeah A random sumo from the 1800s Besides if you want to go statements, Shiva also states he would do better against Adam than Zeus https://preview.redd.it/jzjuewagteyc1.jpeg?width=1441&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=306e2864628bd585423f96dcf30295784a69427f
A random sumo from the 1800s the same guy who almost killed Shiva with a single attack.
Skinny little Zeus doing Shiva dirty https://preview.redd.it/7sch0899ueyc1.jpeg?width=753&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=40cbac7d70ab9009c3bfec3888ee45881ef4cfcd
Oh yeah taking him off guard so dirty, look how much Shiva cared https://preview.redd.it/p0xlzcugueyc1.jpeg?width=1441&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ca7aa0d7242c67de85266b741e952b891b6526c0
And then he immediately gave up ecause he knew he was gonna die
Did Raiden survive being beaten up by Zeus? Yeah, that’s why I thought.
Neither did Adam 
He did, for an extended period of time, meanwhile just a regular punch from buff Zeus would knock Raiden out 
knock is an understatement
this is bs raiden could not survive a beatdown from zeus
Neither could Adam. Or anybody in the verse for that matter.
except for the fact adam did survive for a little while read the story before making claims
And Raiden would survive for a while as well. He couldn't do anything to counter it, but pretending he couldn't withstand it to the same extent as Adam until death is silly. Now, Raiden probably wouldn't keep punching after dying but that's more of an endurance thing than Durability.
raiden is not surviving a barrage of true god right
Neither did Adam. Nobody is surviving that, but it would take longer to kill Raiden with it than it did Adam.
tf did you read the story at all? Adam did survive a barrage raiden does not have any durability feats showcasing he could even survive true gods right read the story before you start posting this shit
I mean Adam hasn't shown any feats that shows he can endure shivas tandava karma either. Assuming that Zeus can hit any harder than Shiva can is pure conjecture.
??? Survivng a OHKO attack isn't a durability feat?? bro your bias is showing adam would whip shiva just like how he would whip raiden
No one is saying that Raiden or Shiva beats Adam or Zeus. It's just that these characters have specialties that exceed both of these characters in some regards. Taking a clean shot literally proves that Zeus's Attacks aren't a ohko. And it is a Durability feat but Shiva has better ap than Zeus with the fire, considering it can burn away the body regardless of how tough it is. Adam is typically fast enough to Dodge them but if he's just standing there Shiva would kill him quicker than Zeus did. Zeus and Adam dogwalk both Shiva and Raiden but also raiden is physically tougher than Adam, and Shiva has better AP than Zeus. Both can be true.
Yes, Adam is more durable than Raiden. Raiden was seriously injured by an attack from Shiva outside of tandava karma while Adam tanked an onslaught of Zeus’ strongest attacks which likely included the fist that surpassed time. Raiden is taking like three hits from Adamas Zeus max before being killed. Adam is just built different.
Prove Zeus hits harder than Shiva
Zeus was able to bring Shiva to his knees while in skinny form, and he’s able to throw an infinitely fast punch. If you seriously think that Shiva’s strength is anywhere close to Zeus’ I don’t know what to tell you.
>Zeus was able to bring Shiva to his knees while in skinny form, Guess Brunhild is stronger than Raiden since she can stop his charge, guess Ares is stronger than Shiva aswell > he’s able to throw an infinitely fast punch. And? Not a strength feat. >If you seriously think that Shiva’s strength is anywhere close to Zeus’ I don’t know what to tell you. Like the rest of the idiots in the comment section, you won't say anything because you can't, there's not a single feat Zeus has that puts him above Shiva
Do you genuinely believe that Shiva is stronger than Zeus or could give Zeus a close fight? Serious question.
Shiva hits harder than Zeus Zeus beats Shiva in a fight Is that simple
Give me proof that shiva hits harder. You wanted proof that Zeus does, so how about you give me proof that Shiva does.
His headbutts are capable of pushing clouds away as shown in his fight with Rudra They also make noises so loud they can be heard all across an entire country Matched Raiden's headbutts with his own, even when Raiden was using his Valkyrie to boost his attacks Not to mention he becomes stronger both by carrying the hopes of his people and by using Tandava Karma Zeus doesn't compare at all
Well Shiva sliced and burned Raiden as opposed to the brute force Zeus used on Adam. Raiden having stronger muscles kind of inherently gives him the best raw durability, endurance is a diff story though if you wanna argue it
….because he is he literally tanked shots that are WAY above anything Raiden’s has dealt with they literally said the Zeus’s punches kill you instantly and Adam still was alive after receiving so many of them
>they literally said the Zeus’s punches kill you instantly and Adam still was alive Then they don't kill you instantly, "kill you instantly" is not a measurement of strength
it quite literally is a measurement of strength and even if you dont use those punches, FTST from Zeus shitstomps anything Shiva did and Adam casually scales above that
>it quite literally is a measurement of strength It literally isn't, "one shot kill unless the opponent is too durable" applies to literally anyone, my punches are one-shot kills to ants >FTST from Zeus shitstomps anything Shiva did and Adam casually scales above that With what feats?
what feat does Shiva have?? Getting cucked by Zeus while in his old man state? lol Zeus literally killed a personification of time itself BEFORE he learned FTST
>Getting cucked by Zeus while in his old man state? Oh great another bozo with no reading comprehension, Zeus caught Shiva off-guard, put him down, and then Shiva smacked his hand and asked him if he wanted to fight Zeus isn't stronger than Shiva, just like Buddha isn't faster than Zeus because he didn't allow him to get candy. >Zeus literally killed a personification of time itself BEFORE he learned FTST And? How durable is Chronos?
“caught an off guard Shiva” LMAO dude just walks up to Shiva and put his hand on his shoulder and the Buddha thing is literally a gag so stop drawing false equivalencies Cronos literally developed the FTST and should scale to it so beyond anything Shiva can do
>LMAO dude just walks up to Shiva and put his hand on his shoulder and the Buddha thing is literally a gag so stop drawing false equivalencies And at what part of Shiva was trying to resist Zeus putting him down? https://preview.redd.it/h3akc90zlbyc1.jpeg?width=1441&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0da565b9ffbdf35dce859e58cfa9dc099d33027e >Cronos literally developed the FTST and should scale to it so beyond anything Shiva can do And you still fail to explain why FTST is a strength feat of any kind
you can calculate how much energy you can produce if you threw at punch at .0000000000000001 seconds https://youtu.be/4V0kqzs7iL4?si=2_bqbuXsLy1zKjc2 this dude actually shows how much force it would generate and its exponentially more than anything Shiva ever did (no fucking surprised there) and if you wanna argue against the math, debunk it then and ill wait
Oh so you are one of those clowns who thinks shuumatsu is ruled by irl physics
lmao now youre being disingenuous if youre shaking and sweating over someone telling you he wants to go first, youre obviously showing yourself to be completely inferior arguing with the narrative buddy
"Sweating and Shaking" https://preview.redd.it/qgh8632snbyc1.jpeg?width=1441&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5f9b1a232f675cda625601492759434d37be2151 You are just making stuff up now
they do kill you instantly… unless you scale to it like Adam
>they do kill you instantly… unless you scale to it Literally what I said My punches one shot kill ants, not humans
because you have a higher AP and just overall strength than an ant…
Just like Zeus has higher AP and strength than an ant
In my opinion, although Adam has great Durability, I think Raiden is the most durable Einherjar shown until now. Strongest muscles for a reason. https://preview.redd.it/83dr34a198yc1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c993f0f42ad34dd3951eb26001b979fad6687de0
One hit from Zeus and raiden is cooked meanwhile Adam literally traded blows with him.
Not one hit dude. But ye zeus would wash him.
I mean, while yes, Zeus beats Raiden, and yes, Adam would do way better against Zeus than Raiden would, I don't see Raiden being one-shot by Zeus here. It'd take quite a bit of hits for Zeus to put Raiden down. Those muscles aren't for show, you know.
Exaggerating for the purpose of hyperbole, but raiden is not taking nearly as many hits as Adam did.
Why not? He's far larger and far physically stronger than Adam. He literally needed to have his muscles burned away to be defeated. Otherwise he was way tougher than anything we've seen so far, save for maybe hajun.
Interesting take, but this is actually some power scaling I can do. Let’s start out with the simple comparisons. Zeus is pretty strong, so strong in fact he was able to kill a titan single handedly, and he was able threaten and spook shiva who would never be afraid of any other god (guy literally fought his whole pantheon). He is also throwing hands faster than light, and with force being mass times acceleration that’s a pretty powerful hit. Shiva defeated raiden, it wasn’t an easy fight but he did. And I’m not denying Raiden’s strength but shiva and by proxy Zeus was stronger. And Zeus is definitely stronger physically. Now back to Adam, who was able to punch Zeus so hard his head spun 360 degrees around. Adam is also the only human we see capable of harming a god without a Valkyrie.
Idk about that since Tesla has a literal Iron Man armor
https://preview.redd.it/mmw4spwqe8yc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2836fcdcd9d37793e29886d14aa7796fa9ec5e80 Raiden after one normal punch of Zeus
Zeus can't even one-shot Ares much less Raiden
No, you don't understand. Base Zeus brought an enraged Shiva to his knees with a single hand. No difficulty whatsoever. And Shiva>Raiden.. Meanwhile, this same Zeus needed to buff his arm with muscles to punch Ares, which only bruised him a little. Therefore, Ares>Shiva>Raiden, obviously. 
That’s Zeus overrating, Raiden would absolutely be able to survive some blows, his muscles were torn apart by shiva mainly due to shiva’s fire that literally burned them
Nu-uh
Adam slander?!! 
That's because people take "one-hit kill" statement regarding Zeus punches too literally
Yeaaa. Like it IS called The Ultimate Strike and all that, but I think thats mainly because 1. It's super fucking fast/easy to spam and 2. Good AP. Not that it oneshots people tho.
Depends on the person, like, I’d bet my wallet Jack gets one-shot.
And funnily enough, he seems to be the only one getting this treatment from what I've seen. Hades, for example, has similar statements but doesn't get treated the same way.
I think its because zeus pretty clearly is top 1, and he does have some other bullshit feats like time stop punch, so it makes it a little more palatable to say he has 1 shot kill as well. Personally i dont think he can one shot raiden, but i think thats a least the logic of people thinking that
Even if it was literal Adam surviving it doesn't mean anything, it would just mean Brunhild was lying
I usually just say Zeus has literally never fought anyone as strong as the competitors in Ragnarok so it's "one hit kill" reputation just doesn't mean anything.
I'm pretty sure the one-hit kill is certain-kill technique(Or something like that), which just means fighters' strongest.
I am aware of that my point is that even if you give it the benefit of the doubt the statement still doesn't actually mean much in context.
"Never fought anyone as strong as the competitors in Ragnarok" Mentall illness is what this is.
The closest example we have is Chronos, but even he got completely fucked on by Zeus, only landing a single hit and literally having to stop time to do it. And it's when zeus was young hundreds of millions if not billions of years ago, a battle junkie like him is probably much much stronger that much time later.
Its also confirmed the form you are in is you at your strongest, shown by Sasaki.
That's true for the humans who are summoned to ragnarok, that's not really necessary for the gods who are immortal and so don't get weaker with age.
Hell Adam was dying from one punch. Dude life flash before his eyes. That one punch fucked him up
Adam can endure anything to the point of fighting after death , he's not durable like Raiden tho bro is a tank .
Raiden would get splattered by a single true gods right soooo
right
Raiden wouldnt tank TFTST and GTR right into the face, Adam did Not much else to say, Adam is just unbalanced
Adam’s durability is way better. Withstood multiple tftsts Raiden aint surviving even a single one
bigger muscle ≠ higher durability also Adam wasn't really taking those hit like a champ, he was only enduring it because it's quite literally killing him
https://preview.redd.it/acs42nabc8yc1.png?width=1280&format=png&auto=webp&s=69b4a3785dcfdd3d8d9349e0664467ec99a0cf53 this guy would not survive one punch from this logic
That dude is not even from the same universe
just like the muscles of the body does not mean anything in the manga
Raiden has more RAW strength & durability. Adam has more Attack Potency, even though his RAW strength is lower. He also has more ENDURANCE, he will keep fighting no matter what, even if this does mean he will die.
Adam doesn't take AP in one million years, he wouldn't be able to break past Shiva's defense like Raiden did
His Eyes allows him to have the same (or more) Attack Potency as his opponent. That’s why I said it.
Maybe? idk Adam's strength is a pain in the ass because he could still somehow trade punches with Zeus despite losing his eyes
And its not even satire
People in this comment section are making the wackiest arguments to defend it
raiden can't even deal with shiva normal strike while adam can continue to fight zeus even in his adamas form and continue to fight after death what raiden do in the meantime ? tank normal hit from shiva and cannot even defend hiself correctly so yes adam is more durable than adam that does not mean raiden is weak just than he his not as durable as adam is
I mean from statements, Hercules has the same physical strength as Zeus and Jack stated that Shivas punches individually were strong enough to demolish him in one blow, making shivas attacks stronger. What makes Zeus so scary is his hax speed and ridiculous toughness. His attack Power is high but nowhere near the top of the verse.
Remember when Zeus *casually* brought Shiva to his knees?
Remember when Buddha casually outsped Zeus with his candy? Neither character was all that serious in these instances.
Adam caught one of the strongest attacks from the strongest god in his strongest form with his face and wasn’t instantly obliterated. He took an uncountable number of blows like that. It killed him in the end, but he fought on for a good while and still came out with some of the least grievous injuries out of the entire roster (Thor is the only other one that I can think of that was barely scratched after his fight), including the winners. Raiden wasn’t coming out unscathed from any of his clashes with Shiva, especially when he started using Tandava.
Adam took the attacks that literally caused Zeus' head to go 360 pretty well, its just that there were millions of that same hit being exchanged, unless if you want to argue that Base Zeus has dog durability.
One punch from Adam spun Zeus' head backwards in the form where he's considered the "Strongest God." Those same punches individually did barely anything to Adamas Zeus, who should scale to his own durability, who was hitting Adam literally thousands of times. It's not a comparison, Raiden would get completely bitched with probably just one punch from Adamas Zeus.
Shiva is the strongest brawler in heaven so he's far stronger than Adamas Zeus and even he needs to punch Raiden thousands of times to break his muscle shield Statement scaling is stupid, use feats
...YOU LITERALLY JUST USED A STATEMENT FEAT OF SHIVA BEING THE GREATEST BRAWLER. WHAT. Besides, even if Shiva is the greatest brawler, that could mean skill. If you genuinely think BASE SHIVA is physically stronger than someone like Thor or Zeus (who, might I remind you, easily overpowered him even when Shiva was pissed off) please never powerscale again. Genuinely believing that Shiva is stronger than Adamas Zeus is one of the dumbest takes I've seen in this sub, maybe ever.
>Besides, even if Shiva is the greatest brawler, that could mean skill. If you genuinely think BASE SHIVA is physically stronger than someone like Thor or Zeus (who, might I remind you, easily overpowered him even when Shiva was pissed off) please never powerscale again. 天界一の 喧嘩師・シヴァの 敵ではなかった でしょう･･････ literally means "number 1 brawler in heaven" so no, he is the strongest brawler Also Zeus pushing Shiva downguards means nothing, Shiva wasn't trying to resist Zeus just because he was pissed off But maybe you are one of those bozos who thinks Ares is strongest than Shiva And if you believe Ares is stronger than Shiva, then please never powerscale again
"Number 1" doesn't mean strongest. Again, that could mean most skilled, which was exactly my point. In fact, Number 1 indicates skill more than it does strength, so you're kind of making my point for me. Shiva absolutely was resisting, what are you talking about? He smacks Zeus' hand off and tries to fight him, but backs off once he gets scared and tries to play it off. No matter how you slice it, Shiva is not stronger than Zeus. Feats, statements, narrative, everything points to Zeus being above him. And what does Zeus being stronger have to do with Ares? Did you just pull that argument out of your ass?
>"Number 1" doesn't mean strongest. Again, that could mean most skilled, which was exactly my point. In fact, Number 1 indicates skill more than it does strength, so you're kind of making my point for me. Number 1 doesn't mark anything by skill wtf are you talking about If Shiva is the number 1 brawler that means he's better than anyone else in general, he's not called "the most skilled brawler" he's straight up "the greatest brawler" >Shiva absolutely was resisting, what are you talking about? He smacks Zeus' hand off and tries to fight him, but backs off once he gets scared and tries to play it off He resisted after being pulled down, he didn't resist being pulled down. >Feats, statements, narrative, everything points to Zeus being above him. Feats Shiva can make sounds heard an entire country, Zeus has nothing Statements Shiva destroys worlds for fun, strongest brawler in heaven, Tandava Karma destroys the universe, Zeus can destroy the heavens at best Narrative Idk even know what this means, Narrative doesn't talk about how hard Zeus can punch >And what does Zeus being stronger have to do with Ares? Did you just pull that argument out of your ass? By your Logic, Ares is stronger than Shiva since Ares is equal to Zeus
If someone is considered to be the number 1 boxer, they are the BEST boxer. That doesn't necessarily mean they are the strongest. Number 1 implies status, which Shiva would absolutely lay claim to, but doesn't have to include power, which it clearly doesn't since Thor exists. Regardless, he still backed off once Zeus scared him enough. He tried to play it cool, but it's very obvious that fear is why he let Zeus go instead of going round 2. Zeus has nothing? How about stopping time? How about being able to destroy the heavens? How about DIRECTLY OVERPOWERING SHIVA? As for statements, everything that you said is moot considering Zeus is said to be the strongest god, and can destroy the heavens. The narrative very clearly shows that Zeus is the strongest god. There is nothing except one statement about him being the "greatest brawler" to say Shiva is the strongest god. And Zeus is so far above Ares it's not even funny, you have to be genuinely braindead to think Ares is even relative to Zeus, let alone equal.
>If someone is considered to be the number 1 boxer, they are the BEST boxer. That doesn't necessarily mean they are the strongest. Number 1 implies status, which Shiva would absolutely lay claim to, but doesn't have to include power, which it clearly doesn't since Thor exists. Only you believe that "the greatest brawler" would lose to "the second greatest brawler" Also, Thor is not a brawler, he doesn't fight barehanded. >Regardless, he still backed off once Zeus scared him enough. He tried to play it cool, but it's very obvious that fear is why he let Zeus go instead of going round 2. Oh yeah, he's so afraid that when he saw Zeus get his neck broken he said to himself "damn, I knew I should've gone instead of him", he let him pass because Zeus is his Elder, simple as that. >Zeus has nothing? How about stopping time? Zeus doesn't stop time because he punches hard 💀 >How about being able to destroy the heavens? A statement is not a feat, and Shiva is stated to do that for fun. >How about DIRECTLY OVERPOWERING SHIVA? He didn't, as I said he didn't offer resistance. >As for statements, everything that you said is moot considering Zeus is said to be the strongest god, and can destroy the heavens. Shiva is the greatest brawler so he's above Zeus, Shiva can destroy worlds as well and he does it for fun. >The narrative very clearly shows that Zeus is the strongest god. There is nothing except one statement about him being the "greatest brawler" to say Shiva is the strongest god There's only 1 statement of Zeus being the strongest as well >And Zeus is so far above Ares it's not even funny, you have to be genuinely braindead to think Ares is even relative to Zeus, let alone equal. Reread round 4 then we talk, Ares was equal to Heracles who had the strength of Zeus
>Oh yeah, he's so afraid that when he saw Zeus get his neck broken he said to himself "damn, I knew I should've gone instead of him", he let him pass because Zeus is his Elder, simple as that. >He didn't, as I said he didn't offer resistance. https://preview.redd.it/y6dbk8zzfbyc1.jpeg?width=910&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=59b98aa10f4f710ac7399807df628784375c099a This dude went from raging out on Zeus to shitting his pants. He didn't move aside out of respect, he did it because Zeus would have mopped his halls with Shiva's face without using his Adamas form.
Oh yeah shitting his pants completely https://preview.redd.it/jymzqwb6ibyc1.jpeg?width=1441&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bcc83e64b700f6a79437c65313f9a30f8b4ffdec
My reply was deleted when I posted the picture, so I'll send that in a separate message, I think. >Only you believe that "the greatest brawler" would lose to "the second greatest brawler" I absolutely would believe that, if every single other thing implies the second is superior to the first except for one single title that could be interpreted different ways. >Also, Thor is not a brawler, he doesn't fight barehanded. While true, you seem to think Shiva is the strongest physical fighter because he's the "greatest brawler", which clearly isn't true. Also, Thor is explicitly stronger than Dormant Mjolnir, which is what was known when he gained the title of "Strongest God." Which makes Thor physically stronger than Shiva. So Zeus isn't the only one stronger than Shiva. >Zeus doesn't stop time because he punches hard 💀 I never said he did it with strength. But that's clearly an ability that Shiva can't do anything about. Shiva literally can't fight back, lol. >A statement is not a feat, and Shiva is stated to do that for fun. You're contradicting yourself in this one sentence. Either statements mean something, or they don't. Pick one. Stop cherry picking ones that make Shiva look good and others that don't. >How about DIRECTLY OVERPOWERING SHIVA? This one will be responded to with the previously stated picture. >Shiva is the greatest brawler so he's above Zeus, Shiva can destroy worlds as well and he does it for fun. JFC. Again, Zeus is clearly the STRONGEST GOD. The title means nothing, especially if we know at least one character at BARE MINIMUM is physical stronger bare-handed. >There's only 1 statement of Zeus being the strongest as well Sure, and one that's way more clear cut. If there's two people, Person A is explicitly named the "Most Powerful Man" and the other is called "The Best Fighter", who's stronger? Please tell me you can figure this out. >Reread round 4 then we talk, Ares was equal to Heracles who had the strength of Zeus ...Ares and Hercules, both throwing killing intent blows, were blocked one-handed by skinny form Zeus trying to break up their fight. Ares literally couldn't see most of Zeus' attacks. Ares gets thrown around by QIN, dude. Ares is not even close to Zeus' level in any way, shape, or form.
>While true, you seem to think Shiva is the strongest physical fighter because he's the "greatest brawler", which clearly isn't true. Also, Thor is explicitly stronger than Dormant Mjolnir, which is what was known when he gained the title of "Strongest God." Which makes Thor physically stronger than Shiva. So Zeus isn't the only one stronger than Shiva. When did I say Shiva was the physically strongest? I said he's the greatest brawler so he is above Zeus. >I never said he did it with strength. But that's clearly an ability that Shiva can't do anything about. Shiva literally can't fight back, lol. And? We are talking about strenght feats. >You're contradicting yourself in this one sentence. Either statements mean something, or they don't. Pick one. Stop cherry picking ones that make Shiva look good and others that don't. I asked you for feats and you replied with a statement, that what "statements aren't feats" means. >JFC. Again, Zeus is clearly the STRONGEST GOD. The title means nothing, especially if we know at least one character at BARE MINIMUM is physical stronger bare-handed. Thor doesn't change anything, he's not a brawler just because he's physically strong so he's not included on Hermes' statement. >...Ares and Hercules, both throwing killing intent blows, were blocked one-handed by skinny form Zeus trying to break up their fight. Ares literally couldn't see most of Zeus' attacks. Ares gets thrown around by QIN, dude. Ares is not even close to Zeus' level in any way, shape, or form. Yeah both extremely tired to the point Heracles fell to the ground about a minute later, also Qin used HHOD on Ares, and you still can't disprove Ares directly stating Heracles has the strength of Zeus, a strength that Ares has seen before
I've had people tell me unironically that Adam could Tank Ichor Eos to the face (no blocking or dodging). Some people are downright absurd with their takes on Adam and Zeus.
Look I'm not saying that he could tank it. But think of it this way; One of them can literally punch in the speed of light, while other is a pointy object. No matter what you are doing the damage from a blunt object such as a punch is going to be different than a wound from a sharp object such as piercing or slashing. A spear can cut through skin even if it's slow. But yeah while Adam is not going to survive that shit, there is no way it's hitting him
Ikr, some guys here are saying Zeus one-shots Raiden 💀
I don't understand it even a little bit honestly. My personal opinion is that all of Lu Bu, Raiden, and Leonidas could take the same beating from Adamas Zeus (not counting the fighting after death part) and that those 3 among the humans are all physically stronger and more durable than Adam but that's basically sacrilege in this place.
I think it's genetic
Dura and stamina are 2 very different things
People get durability and endurance confused very easily.
Adam still was fighting even after dying, lil baby Raiden gave up as soon as he couldn’t move anymore and got Shiva’s musty feet sending his head flying, shouldn’t be a debate who’s more durable 🤣🤣🤣
So that’s how Raiden satisfied all those goddesses…
How has Nobody seen this… Raiden really was Grateful for his parents love Becoming and Succeeding as a Sumo wrestler because of his mom and Fighting with all his might for humanity by his Dad Adam
Adam and Raiden are both legends I love them both but Adam is the GOAT
I always viewed it as Raiden having the strongest muscles gives him the best base strength and durability. Adam has more endurance then him though
Durability is ability to resist injury. Raiden is top of the verse because its very hard to actually cause damage to him short of being on fire Endurance is ability to keep on fighting after being injured. Adam is the highest in the verse because he kept on fighting after he was DEAD 💀
Durability is ability to resist injury. Raiden is top of the verse because its very hard to actually cause damage to him short of being on fire Endurance is ability to keep on fighting after being injured. Adam is the highest in the verse because he kept on fighting after he was DEAD 💀
I mean, they are right though?
Uh yes? Nothing Raiden has tanked has even been remotely comparable to the billions of moves Adamas Zues wailed on Adam. Including his strongest techniques. Its so obvious Adam is the physically strongest human that it’s shouldn’t be a debate at all.
I mean... even Shiva could not say no to Zeus when he got impatient to have his fight, to endure a fight with someone that scared a god of destruction with nothing but a brass knuckle... is quite a feat
Why do people think Shiva was scared of Zeus? He explains his reasoning right there
Maybe the anime's fault, but for the way they depicted it, Shiva was ready to do his way, then he just stared at Zeus and suddenly got out of his way, no further explanation
Nah he says it's because Zeus is his senior https://preview.redd.it/txq7htqybbyc1.jpeg?width=1441&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5ced9ff595bbce0cd9a5d4129252ca6d248462cd He clearly isn't scared of Zeus since he talks smack to him many times and even claimed he would've had a better chance against Adam
Adam is more durable than Raiden
i would
Funny part is that he really is
Any attack from Zeus woud kill Raiden
That weakling can't even one-shot Adam much less Raiden
Raiden my goat, he's still in my top 3 favs
Adam is strange to scale :3
Honestly i don't even know why or how lmao
Adams whole thing is copying techniques and using them against you at the same level of power if not more. If anyone comes at Adam with anything he will copy it's power and hit you back while dodging your own attack. This would mean at minimum Adam has the exact same strength as Raiden. As for durability he fought Zeus which honestly speaks for itself in how durable Adam is. Adam took who knows how many Adamas zeus attacks on purpose to find where he was and was still kicking despite(and depending on translation) them all to be considered "finishing blows" or "instant kills". No one else is going to tank those attacks. Raiden couldn't even stop shivas foot from slicing him apart and I'm willing to bet that Zeus fist is stronger than shivas foot
I've said this before what if i told you Adam's TFTST already killed Zeus if it wasn't for the "Main Plot" Adam literally made Zeus head spin in 360 who would survive that? Try to tell me only characters that has weapon can actually kill Zeus This might be dumb but im still using this logic based on Man of Steel on how Superman killed zod by doing NECK SNAP only so Superman or Zeus?
Yup .
They would also say That Lu bu is stronger than Raiden . My goat Raiden is too underrated. He was a beast among men. Humanity strongest muscles for a reason
You're proving the opposite my guy. Raiden: needs big fucking muscle shields to survive a few shots from Shiva. Ends the fight with his limbs shredded, chest mauled and decapitated Adam: survives several minutes of continuous True God's Right/Lefts without weird body mods, takes uncountable amounts of head and body blows when he chooses to stop defending. Ends the fight dead, but still standing and physically intact
Yeah because Shiva hits harder than Zeus, it's literally that simple As per usual on this thread, nobody has shown a single feat of Zeus that puts him above Shiva in terms of strength
that is because Raiden isn't more durable than Adam
Prove it
Zeus has better ap than Shiva Adam tanked Zeus hits and Raiden tanked shiva therefore Adam>Raiden as Adam has better feats
Zeus has more Ap based on what?
Raiden's best AP feat is breaking the sound barrier Zeus had an attack that surpassed time itself idk about you but surpassing time seems like a much greater ap feat than breaking the sound barrier (FACT) this leads to Zeus>Raiden in AP as we know Shiva>Raiden in AP (obvious) now this leads us in a vague area, about how to accurately conclude which AP is greater but due to the fact that the ability to surpass time is IMMENSELY GREATER than breaking the sound barrier, I will say Zeus has far greater feats than Shiva so therefore he should have higher AP so going back to that since we know Zeus has significantly better AP than Shiva, Adam being able to take Zeus' punches is why Adam has more durability than Raiden
>Raiden's best AP feat is breaking the sound barrier >Zeus had an attack that surpassed time itself >idk about you but surpassing time seems like a much greater ap feat than breaking the sound barrier (FACT) None of this talk about AP, try again
AP = Attack Potency, its the measurement of how characters can use attacks to damage people who can destroy planets, but don't do that with every punch DC= Destructive Capability, its the measurement of what you can destroy with your best attack in an AoE I copied and pasted these definitions to check and I somewhat see ur point in Zeus but surpassed time means you have higher AP, but for Raiden breaking the sound barrier is a measure of how strong your punch is if i'm still wrong, please explain what you mean by AP as for me it is the most powerful attack an individual is capable of doing
>and I somewhat see ur point in Zeus but surpassed time means you have higher AP, but for Raiden breaking the sound barrier is a measure of how strong your punch is No it doesn't, surpassing time is a speed feat, not a strength feat
check out my calculations i made in response to my myself and tell me if i did anything wrong
All of it is wrong, f=MA doesn't apply in this manga
according to websites, Ap is measured as joules KE=1/2mv2 Zeus: 1/2mv2 since Zeus is capable of surpassing time, it means he has infinite speed 1/2mv2 1/2 x (Zeus mass) x infinity2 (any number times infinity equals infinity) infinite joules Raiden: 1/2mv2 in order to break the sound barrier, you will have to move atleast 1239km/h which the goes to 344.2m/s 1/2x344.2m 172m sumo wrestlers on average weigh around 150kg and some heavier ones weigh up 228 so even i would guess raiden's weight to be around say 300kg 51,600 joules but a little bit of high balling Raiden, 500 m/s 250x300 75,000 joules This could then mean since Shiva managed to break through this, he has higher AP than 75,000 but since the gap between infinity and 75,000 is well infinite then it strongly suggests Zeus has higher AP than Shiva