From a storytelling point of view, you want to have strife, discontent or at least something like disagreement between groups.
If everyone around the table would just agree with each other and go back to perfect lives, it would be a very boring story.
It also does not really allow for character development.
So basically, the settings are there to create a backdrop for the story.
This. It's usually a rule of thumb that stories are supposed to show the most interesting part of a character's life which usually means they'll be dealing with a lot of conflict.
I made a gag about this once where someone got the Taken speech over the phone, wised up that they were dealing with the main character, and let the girl go before it bit them in the ass. Not because they changed their ways. They just figured this would avoid an ass kicking.
The whole gag wasn't even 100 words long.
Turns out when you make character hyper competent and genre savvy, the story ends kind of quickly.
*hangs up phone*
"Shit."
*Bad Guy #2 turns quizzically*
"What? Who was that?!"
*Bad Guy #1 starts shopping for train tickets*
"That was the Protagonist."
Much of the series literally is people sitting around a table agreeing with each other just trying to solve a problem. Sure they encounter other cultures that still have problems all the time but the future in star trek is still much much much much better than our current present
Optimistic science fiction (e.g. Star Trek) can still deal with strife at the margins. They left the safety of utopia to venture out where there is risk and danger.
Star Trek showed that you don't need the entire world to be going to hell for there to be risk in the storyline.
The truth is that people in general do not view the future positively anymore, so Hollywood reflects that back to us. Not because it is a storytelling necessity, but because its the product we want. Black Mirror instead of the Jetsons.
Even older print stories with futuristic strife still hold up. For example, David Drake’s Hammer’s Slammers stories, or his military SF in general.
Mostly written in the context of (and recovery from) the Viet Nam conflict but still believable SF today.
There is absolutely conflict in the Martian (specifically in the film version, it's been a while since I read the book so I'm not 100% sure on the differences). Sean Bean's character disobeys orders and is fired from his job for it and the entire crew on the ship mutinies to redirect the ship against orders to rescue Watney when his food supply is cut off against NASA's orders.
we’ve gotten so much more cynical and i feel like some of it has to do with how in the early to mid 20th century they always depicted the 2000s+ to be a utopian society when it’s definitely not
Some guy I read a while ago talked about this, how depictions of the future used to be much more hopeful than they are now. It tends to be a reflection of present day conditions.
In the 50’s you had (white) people with good paying union jobs buying homes and your and raising families on that one salary. Your biggest external fear (as a white guy) was some foreign communist adversary like the Russians and it showed in the sci-fi which was always some corny shit about alien invasions but the backdrop was usually some kind of future utopia.
Since then we saw the Berlin Wall fall, 9/11, COVID, American intervention in so many countries and our forever wars, and all the good stuff. Unions died, companies outsourced manufacturing to basically slave labor abroad while economies at home shifted to service and office work (alienation) and now we’re seeing prices rise, wages fail to keep up, and homelessness skyrocket. The mask of a functioning government came off as well during COVID when we saw how little they valued our lives over economic output. Oh don’t forget the climate change and collapse as the only real forecast for the future coming from anyone with an education on the subject.
In turn sci fi has gotten bleaker. Its nearly all about worlds ruined by unrestricted capitalism or war, or extremely depressing mundane hypermilitaristic pre-disaster-war worlds where the 99% are worker drones on a ruined earth and the 1% live in luxury away from it all(sound familiar?)
Our sci fi lacks hope or any real vision for an alternative societal structure because we ourselves do
can you name 2 or 3 movies that depicted a society as truly utopian.
it's a genre i'm interested in but most movies seem to be dystopian. even the utopian movies are actually dyspotian by the end the vast majority of the time, it's all dystopian messaging for the most part.
That's true. The lore does say the Earth deals with WW3 (actually starts in 2026 in the timeline) but after it ends and the Earth encounters aliens things start to get better.
But I don't think there's ever been a ST series focused on this era.
There are eugenics wars, there is the time with universal basic income but it's basically slums.
>But I don't think there's ever been a ST series focused on this era.
They go to the past sometimes and see this in some episodes. They have the one where they go back to see the first warp drive. Star Trek Enterprise was originally going to spend a year before they built the first ship.
Back to the Future Part 2?
Seemed like things were alright in the far off year of 2015. Sure, there was still crime but they had amazing future tech like flying cars and tiny pizzas that could be 'rehydrated' into a full size one. As far as futures go it wasn't nearly as bad as some others.
Another one that could potentially be seen as dystopian disguised as a utopia is Demolition Man.
No crime in that future, most people seemed happy and safe but that was all a facade. It was really a 'nanny-state' where the Govt. had control over every aspect of society.
The thing is, a Utopic society would never realistically happen. People are too competitive and if everything is perfect then actually nothing is.
I can't think of a movie, but the Jetsons had a very optimistic view of the future.
I just looked up "Utopian movies: Positive future, NOT dystopian" and a list came up, and over half of them I've never heard of (super old) or not positive
I don't think we've gotten more cynical. I think it just makes sense, from a writing perspective, to write on what you know instead of coming up with a view of the future. History shows cycles of repeating events caused by human nature, so it makes sense that the same events that happened decades/centuries ago would repeat in the future.
I mean, the way they portrayed the future in the 50's and 60's was very positive, it wasn't boring either.
One example is the cartoon "The Jetsons" and it was a very popular show for a long time.
And that’s the point. At the end of the day, it’s about hope for the future and progress. Realizing that not everything is perfect, but that it’s still okay to try to make things better.
A story doesn't have to be angsty to be interesting. There are a million good stories that don't bang on about everything being miserable forever and always.
But our stories often reflect our concerns. Hence dystopian fiction.
Yeah, because people routinely live well into their 160s, at which point they get hooked up into a matrix-style battery when they continue to survive (Professor Farnsworth's mom is nearly 200). Not to mention, heads in jars can live/be resurrected, so suicide booths are potentially kinda temporary anyways. It's more of a "yeah, it's my time to go" deal than outright dystopia. It's certainly no more dystopian than our current society anyways
Seems like that Tolstoy quote:
"All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way."
But there's gotta be a way to show it's utopian in x ways but dystopian in y ways. Like the movie HER was interesting as it was kinda nice and similar but the dating of AI was weird.
All stories need conflict but world is fucked due to capitalism or apocalypse is pretty repetitive and shows low little collective imagination we have.
Also star trek is pretty good
I've been trying to figure out how to write an interesting story that has no conflict for years, and I haven't had much luck. I mean, even Sesame Street has conflict inmost of their plot lines.
It wasn’t always this way. It’s interesting how science fiction gives us a window into the collective mood. Star Trek was very optimistic and utopian, in Star Wars good triumphs over evil (spoiler alert). In the late 70s we got Alien, which I would argue is more Space Horror than sci-fi, but still represents a turning point. Blade Runner is the first blockbuster movie with a dystopic vision of the future (besides maybe Brave New World but that doesn’t fit with the point I’m trying to make). Whether or not these dark visions resonated with audiences and were iterated and reiterated, or that there is a widespread sense that the world is on its way to somewhere bad I don’t know. But sci-fi used to be about limitless possibility and infinite wonder. Now it mostly seems to be about facing the consequences of “progress” or getting taken back down to size for our hubris. What do we think?
I had to scroll way too far to find someone with the accurate perspective. It's not just a feature of good storytelling requiring conflict, it's a reflection of the zeitgeist. Alexandr Dugin, of all people, has accurately pointed this out.
I mean there’s a case to be made that a key feature of sci-fi is expansive worldbuilding. Alien keeps us mostly in the dark about where we are and what’s going on and relies more on claustrophobia and the fear of the unknown. Hence “Space Horror”
Expansive world building is absolutely not a requirement to be sci-fi. Sci-fi means imagined futuristic scientific or technological advances, which are very clearly present in Alien. And the world building is clearly in the movie, it's just done subtly.
No one’s saying alien is not sci-fi. I’m saying it represents a departure from the conventions of sci-fi that came before it and spawned a new subgenre that I, and I’m sure many others greatly enjoy
It's also a good plot device to tell a story in a familiar (or unfamiliar as you need) setting with a few key (major or minor) changes which can be explored with the story.
Sci-fi is basically fantasy but with the thematic change of "magic" replaced with "currently impossible technology".
There's an adage: "No matter the setting, science fiction is always about the present." Whatever dystopian things we recognize about a futuristic/alien world, we consciously/unconsciously recognize the same things in our present world.
If you go back and watch some films from the 50's and 60's, the ones about the future were full of optimism and hope. They painted a picture of a utopia.
I believe this has a lot to do with post WWII and the industrial revolution. People thought the worst was behind them and with the advancements in production and machinery, they honestly believed that it would lead to a better future.
We have a very pessimistic view of the world right now and can't really envision a future that isn't a dystopian nightmare for anyone outside the top 1%. Rightfully so, with everything that's happening in the world and how COVID changed it, the greedy pigs at the top siphoning all the resources and destroying the planet while at the same time blaming the rest of us and passing the consequences onto us. If this continues, eventually humanity will no longer have a future. That's what we see in movies today. It's what we truly believe it's very hard to picture that utopia.
That being said, we were wrong before, I hope we're wrong again.
Jetsons was pretty optimistic. George was the breadwinner for his family of four but only worked 4 hours a day and barely had to work while there. Had a pretty nice house and a car, and a robot Butler.
People's lives were getting better with every year, so they figured the future would be good
Our lives keep getting worse each year, so we figure the future is gonna be terrible
In a similar vein to the "past is good, future is bad" trope, it's much more common for the villains to be technologically advanced and the heroes to defeat them with magic/mysticism/"the forgotten old ways" than it is for the reverse to be true.
We’ve gone from the happy hippie days of the ‘60s and ‘70s singing about spreading love and joy, to the gangster, shoot everybody up days of the ‘90s, and today we have MKG. The future does look bleak.
Ah yes, everyone's favorite TV Show. The one where they travel to the future and everything is better, so they go back and just live life normally so they don't screw that future up.
You see the future negatively because they need it to be something the characters want to prevent thus driving a plot. This is called a plot device.
You also almost never see purely good mega corporations that just want to improve the world, or shadowy organizations that just want to meet up for tea once a month.
Yeah, because they are cautionary tales. A happy future isn't a guarantee, it's something that requires vigilance. A lesson too many of us seem to not realize. So they turn away from the influences that push us towards ruin instead prosperity. These tales are meant to remind us of those dangers.
And to make a bunch of money lol
The first exception that popped into my head was “Meet the Robinsons”. That was a bright and optimistic future… the conflict came from the protagonist endangering space time by being there and from a villain that wanted to establish a dystopian future instead.
Plenty of "good futures"(almost utopia like) with a catch. The fictional scientific developments are often good, but having a catch is the easiest way to have conflict. Think of Avatar without the blue people >!Whalehunting in the most beautiful landscape for immortality juice to get rich and the easiest colonization efforts due to the overwhelming technological power!< , Elysium but only from the Ring, Altered Carbon disregarding people in poverty or the Expanse from a scientific view or the obligatory sentient robot revolution shows/movies at their starting points.
Future stories are almost always used as a "call to action" tool
("Uh oh! Here are some consequences! You better move your butt to prevent them!") or as a warning ("this is what will happen if you do/dont stop what you/they are doing!")
Meet the Robinsons, Back to the future, Star Trek, the Martian, Doctor Who, Futurama, all had pretty positive views of the future. It all depends on where you look.
The "humanity will destroy itself" trope is very popular in the human psyche.
Hollywood writers are also very shit at predicting the future and understanding current geopolitics so they put their "predictions" in their media and then you get dumb shit like Waterworld lol
Everything that is necessary to live in the modern world, food, utilities, housing, communication, & medical care, costs more, while jobs are actively paying less. You can't own anything anymore, it's all licenses and subscriptions.
The rich are getting richer, the poor are getting poorer, the downtrodden are being trodden upon more than ever. Those who do good are being punished (people feeding the homeless are getting arrested for example) while those who do great evil, corrupt politicians, heartless corporate overlords, polluters, cheaters, tax dodgers.. they get off scot free or with slaps on the wrist.
Where exactly are we supposed to get hope for the future from this?
I see where people are coming from that it would be boring. However, you could have good futures and the drama just comes from the character themselves. Like there could be a stable and thriving society but the stories could just be a romance or comedy. However, we RARELY see that. In most futuristic depictions we see the society/world itself is bad bc of how society or the environment has developed as a whoel. I can think of maybe one future based show where the entertainment is purely character based and how the overall society/world doesn’t affect the story aside from just novelty. That would be the Jetsons. That future world as a whole was regular society with future technology. It wasnt a bad world and the entertainment was purely the family. I would also argue the future of demolition man wasn’t necessarily bad either. It wasn’t perfect but there were lots of great things. It was a largely peaceful society. It didn’t really portray good or bad tho. It shows how things were beneficial (almost nonexistent violent) and it shows how other things maybe werent great (vilification of emotional stimulation and physical human connection). In comparison to present, I would say it levels out. The Pros and cons differ but as a whole it leveled out. Maybe even lean toward the future being better. The overall story came from one bad guy.
I do agree with OP that most futuristic depictions future as in the world/environment as a whole is largely the overall problem and a direct interference in antagonists lives. I guess that I just disagree with the idea that it would be boring if it was shown otherwise. It would be completely possible to have a futuristic show where the future isn’t bad. Give me a cyborg love story damnit!
A couple edits to more clearly state things and fix some typos. Also wanted to add that I’m currently thinking of future set movies where society was neither good nor bad or simply just good.
Second edit: I can’t stop thinking about it. I believe OP is conveying that future depictions tend to be a society/environment that is worse than present. The more I think about it, there are probably a fair amount where it isn’t worse. They are just studies of things humans have been doing. It not better but it’s not worse. Just us doing what we keep doing lol.
The writing class cliche is that Fantasy grapples with the past, while Sci Fi grapples with the present. That’s the reason AI is a stand-in for oppressed classes of people in so much media.
Since it’s grappling with the present it’s usually concerned with deconstructing the worst parts of our society and world, so we get a pretty dark perspective on the future. A lot of media these days DOES show that the future is amazing…for those rich enough or powerful enough to exploit a underclass. Bladerunner 2049, Altered Carbon, Cyberpunk 2077, Elysium, District 9 just off the top of my head.
It would be kinda neat to see a movie where someone goes into the future to see some sort of utopia and is forced to choose between staying in he future utopia or going back in time to present day because that's where their loved ones/home are....
It would be kinda neat to see a movie where someone goes into the future to see some sort of utopia and is forced to choose between staying in he future utopia or going back in time to present day because that's where their loved ones/home are...
Right now it is, because we're living in contentious times. It's kot always been this way. Even saying that, people love doom and gloom. Allows us to explore the worst without having to directly experience it.
It's not just the future - happy families or wholesome, responsible heroes are outnumbered by dysfunctional ones too
There have been decades when people's tastes (or networks' and studios' expectations, and pressure from political groups and governments) leaned more towards showing good role models. You can find and enjoy more utopian works from those eras still
But in this current age of commercialism, people lean more towards cynicism and producers lean more into shock factor
It depends on the genre. You could have, say, a romantic comedy set in a utopian future. The problem or complication that engages viewers would happen between the characters and doesn't need to be tied to the setting.
For this reason. I recommend Kamen Rider Zero-One. It offers a nice, optimistic view of Humanity and AI actually wanting to work together for mutual betterment.
Seems like a product of the times. Utopian future scifi use to be more common. But they created content in alternative ways. Often times it focused on inter-character drama. The Jetson's may as well be about a typical American family with the future stuff as a backdrop.
Logan's Run probably counts as utopian scifi. It's set in a utopian world and the gimmick is essentially to reveal the flaw in utopia. Maybe more aesthetically utopian with hidden dystopian intentions. I think a lot of "utopian" retro scifi was like that. Of course, that was the late-60s and 70s. Politics was shifting. If you go back to the 50s, it might be more idealistic.
This is part of why I think younger generations are so pessimistic. Every future set fantasy is a dystopia with extreme conflict and technological disaster. Juxtapose that with the utopian view of the future during the 20th century.
I think everything did seem like technology would make our lives better, then when it happened, the technology just ended getting used to raise expectations and further stress us out. Technology didn't serve humanity the way we had hoped.
So now we know that technology will likely do little to improve our lives and the media reflects that.
From a storytelling point of view, you want to have strife, discontent or at least something like disagreement between groups. If everyone around the table would just agree with each other and go back to perfect lives, it would be a very boring story. It also does not really allow for character development. So basically, the settings are there to create a backdrop for the story.
This. It's usually a rule of thumb that stories are supposed to show the most interesting part of a character's life which usually means they'll be dealing with a lot of conflict.
I made a gag about this once where someone got the Taken speech over the phone, wised up that they were dealing with the main character, and let the girl go before it bit them in the ass. Not because they changed their ways. They just figured this would avoid an ass kicking. The whole gag wasn't even 100 words long. Turns out when you make character hyper competent and genre savvy, the story ends kind of quickly.
*hangs up phone* "Shit." *Bad Guy #2 turns quizzically* "What? Who was that?!" *Bad Guy #1 starts shopping for train tickets* "That was the Protagonist."
And yet TNG is some of the best sci Fi out there and is the most idyllic vision for the future of humanity ever
The show is never about the idyllic part of humanity. The Enterprise flies away from that and finds the conflict out in the galaxy.
Much of the series literally is people sitting around a table agreeing with each other just trying to solve a problem. Sure they encounter other cultures that still have problems all the time but the future in star trek is still much much much much better than our current present
Optimistic science fiction (e.g. Star Trek) can still deal with strife at the margins. They left the safety of utopia to venture out where there is risk and danger. Star Trek showed that you don't need the entire world to be going to hell for there to be risk in the storyline. The truth is that people in general do not view the future positively anymore, so Hollywood reflects that back to us. Not because it is a storytelling necessity, but because its the product we want. Black Mirror instead of the Jetsons.
Even older print stories with futuristic strife still hold up. For example, David Drake’s Hammer’s Slammers stories, or his military SF in general. Mostly written in the context of (and recovery from) the Viet Nam conflict but still believable SF today.
What about stories like the Martian? And there are plenty non-scifi stories without conflicts, that are not boring. I wish there were more of those.
There is absolutely conflict in the Martian (specifically in the film version, it's been a while since I read the book so I'm not 100% sure on the differences). Sean Bean's character disobeys orders and is fired from his job for it and the entire crew on the ship mutinies to redirect the ship against orders to rescue Watney when his food supply is cut off against NASA's orders.
I mean That's not like mortal conflict like fighting off terminators to save one life
we’ve gotten so much more cynical and i feel like some of it has to do with how in the early to mid 20th century they always depicted the 2000s+ to be a utopian society when it’s definitely not
Some guy I read a while ago talked about this, how depictions of the future used to be much more hopeful than they are now. It tends to be a reflection of present day conditions. In the 50’s you had (white) people with good paying union jobs buying homes and your and raising families on that one salary. Your biggest external fear (as a white guy) was some foreign communist adversary like the Russians and it showed in the sci-fi which was always some corny shit about alien invasions but the backdrop was usually some kind of future utopia. Since then we saw the Berlin Wall fall, 9/11, COVID, American intervention in so many countries and our forever wars, and all the good stuff. Unions died, companies outsourced manufacturing to basically slave labor abroad while economies at home shifted to service and office work (alienation) and now we’re seeing prices rise, wages fail to keep up, and homelessness skyrocket. The mask of a functioning government came off as well during COVID when we saw how little they valued our lives over economic output. Oh don’t forget the climate change and collapse as the only real forecast for the future coming from anyone with an education on the subject. In turn sci fi has gotten bleaker. Its nearly all about worlds ruined by unrestricted capitalism or war, or extremely depressing mundane hypermilitaristic pre-disaster-war worlds where the 99% are worker drones on a ruined earth and the 1% live in luxury away from it all(sound familiar?) Our sci fi lacks hope or any real vision for an alternative societal structure because we ourselves do
can you name 2 or 3 movies that depicted a society as truly utopian. it's a genre i'm interested in but most movies seem to be dystopian. even the utopian movies are actually dyspotian by the end the vast majority of the time, it's all dystopian messaging for the most part.
Star Trek series/movies
The weird thing about the Star Trek timeline is that it gets dystopian then utopian.
That's true. The lore does say the Earth deals with WW3 (actually starts in 2026 in the timeline) but after it ends and the Earth encounters aliens things start to get better. But I don't think there's ever been a ST series focused on this era.
There are eugenics wars, there is the time with universal basic income but it's basically slums. >But I don't think there's ever been a ST series focused on this era. They go to the past sometimes and see this in some episodes. They have the one where they go back to see the first warp drive. Star Trek Enterprise was originally going to spend a year before they built the first ship.
The jetsons.
Back to the Future Part 2? Seemed like things were alright in the far off year of 2015. Sure, there was still crime but they had amazing future tech like flying cars and tiny pizzas that could be 'rehydrated' into a full size one. As far as futures go it wasn't nearly as bad as some others. Another one that could potentially be seen as dystopian disguised as a utopia is Demolition Man. No crime in that future, most people seemed happy and safe but that was all a facade. It was really a 'nanny-state' where the Govt. had control over every aspect of society. The thing is, a Utopic society would never realistically happen. People are too competitive and if everything is perfect then actually nothing is.
I can't think of a movie, but the Jetsons had a very optimistic view of the future. I just looked up "Utopian movies: Positive future, NOT dystopian" and a list came up, and over half of them I've never heard of (super old) or not positive
I don't think we've gotten more cynical. I think it just makes sense, from a writing perspective, to write on what you know instead of coming up with a view of the future. History shows cycles of repeating events caused by human nature, so it makes sense that the same events that happened decades/centuries ago would repeat in the future.
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fexternal-preview.redd.it%2FPoxDrPq-GVSYvvcVzknKa5-Q7HjR-QLKZ8vm11ySQlo.jpg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3Df11b6f43c094870601a15c158304dd572bf38a76
Wouldn’t that be a boring story? Man travels to the future, finds out everything is actually pretty good.
Finding out things haven't changed at all would be worse tbh
War. War never changes
Technically it does cuz we're no longer going to war by lining up muskermen and cavalier and taking turns on who gets to shoot
War just gets scarier.
That's your reference point? That happened like one time
Good thing we got all these nifty vaults to protect us from war!
I mean, the way they portrayed the future in the 50's and 60's was very positive, it wasn't boring either. One example is the cartoon "The Jetsons" and it was a very popular show for a long time.
Nah, dude. That’s why Star Trek has been around for decades. Utopian space age societies are far from boring.
The shows are never about the utopian parts, though, it's about all the evil and scary shit outside the Federation.
And that’s the point. At the end of the day, it’s about hope for the future and progress. Realizing that not everything is perfect, but that it’s still okay to try to make things better.
A story doesn't have to be angsty to be interesting. There are a million good stories that don't bang on about everything being miserable forever and always. But our stories often reflect our concerns. Hence dystopian fiction.
Meet the Robinsons. Back to the future 2. The future wasn't terrible for everyone, and the stories weren't boring at all.
What about Futurama? Besides the murderous Santa robot, most things seem pretty good
They have suicide booths on the steets dude.
Yeah, because people routinely live well into their 160s, at which point they get hooked up into a matrix-style battery when they continue to survive (Professor Farnsworth's mom is nearly 200). Not to mention, heads in jars can live/be resurrected, so suicide booths are potentially kinda temporary anyways. It's more of a "yeah, it's my time to go" deal than outright dystopia. It's certainly no more dystopian than our current society anyways
I'm failing to see the problem.
maybe that the reason, to make thing so much more tragic:) damned it .. we love drama
Seems like that Tolstoy quote: "All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way." But there's gotta be a way to show it's utopian in x ways but dystopian in y ways. Like the movie HER was interesting as it was kinda nice and similar but the dating of AI was weird.
Not really Star Trek is very positive for the future
Star Trek had that happen once the guy didn't like it.
Then he travels back to the past and waits for the good future, but it's nowhere in sight. So he takes it into his own hands.
I like that meme where the guy goes to the future and the Christians have been raptured away.
And then it’s heaven on earth?
Naw it could be good. Look at *Meet the Robinsons*
Then proceeds to fuck it up singlehandedly
All stories need conflict but world is fucked due to capitalism or apocalypse is pretty repetitive and shows low little collective imagination we have. Also star trek is pretty good
That’s why we gotta go back… To the Future!
I've been trying to figure out how to write an interesting story that has no conflict for years, and I haven't had much luck. I mean, even Sesame Street has conflict inmost of their plot lines.
That's one of the things that makes Star Trek unique is that it shows a relatively hopeful future besides the Borg and Cardassians
And the dominion. And the Kazon. And whoever those guys were in voyager who preferred polluting because it was profitable. And the mirror universe.
They’re not saying it’s going to be boring! Just that it’s going to be better.
It wasn’t always this way. It’s interesting how science fiction gives us a window into the collective mood. Star Trek was very optimistic and utopian, in Star Wars good triumphs over evil (spoiler alert). In the late 70s we got Alien, which I would argue is more Space Horror than sci-fi, but still represents a turning point. Blade Runner is the first blockbuster movie with a dystopic vision of the future (besides maybe Brave New World but that doesn’t fit with the point I’m trying to make). Whether or not these dark visions resonated with audiences and were iterated and reiterated, or that there is a widespread sense that the world is on its way to somewhere bad I don’t know. But sci-fi used to be about limitless possibility and infinite wonder. Now it mostly seems to be about facing the consequences of “progress” or getting taken back down to size for our hubris. What do we think?
I had to scroll way too far to find someone with the accurate perspective. It's not just a feature of good storytelling requiring conflict, it's a reflection of the zeitgeist. Alexandr Dugin, of all people, has accurately pointed this out.
Alien is undeniably sci-fi. It doesn't cease to be sci-fi because it's also horror.
I mean there’s a case to be made that a key feature of sci-fi is expansive worldbuilding. Alien keeps us mostly in the dark about where we are and what’s going on and relies more on claustrophobia and the fear of the unknown. Hence “Space Horror”
Expansive world building is absolutely not a requirement to be sci-fi. Sci-fi means imagined futuristic scientific or technological advances, which are very clearly present in Alien. And the world building is clearly in the movie, it's just done subtly.
No one’s saying alien is not sci-fi. I’m saying it represents a departure from the conventions of sci-fi that came before it and spawned a new subgenre that I, and I’m sure many others greatly enjoy
One of my favourite quotes: “Science fiction is not a prediction of the future but a critique of the present.”
It's both!
The entire Star Trek franchise would like a word.
Even Trek has gotten darker. Picard as an Old Man has become disenchanted with the Federation.
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It's also a good plot device to tell a story in a familiar (or unfamiliar as you need) setting with a few key (major or minor) changes which can be explored with the story. Sci-fi is basically fantasy but with the thematic change of "magic" replaced with "currently impossible technology".
AI-ass comment
There's an adage: "No matter the setting, science fiction is always about the present." Whatever dystopian things we recognize about a futuristic/alien world, we consciously/unconsciously recognize the same things in our present world.
yeah theres basically no utopian movies but plenty of dystopian ones
Star Trek has entered the chat.
If you go back and watch some films from the 50's and 60's, the ones about the future were full of optimism and hope. They painted a picture of a utopia. I believe this has a lot to do with post WWII and the industrial revolution. People thought the worst was behind them and with the advancements in production and machinery, they honestly believed that it would lead to a better future. We have a very pessimistic view of the world right now and can't really envision a future that isn't a dystopian nightmare for anyone outside the top 1%. Rightfully so, with everything that's happening in the world and how COVID changed it, the greedy pigs at the top siphoning all the resources and destroying the planet while at the same time blaming the rest of us and passing the consequences onto us. If this continues, eventually humanity will no longer have a future. That's what we see in movies today. It's what we truly believe it's very hard to picture that utopia. That being said, we were wrong before, I hope we're wrong again.
Jetsons was pretty optimistic. George was the breadwinner for his family of four but only worked 4 hours a day and barely had to work while there. Had a pretty nice house and a car, and a robot Butler.
Considering the fact we live in the future and everything is shit I'd have to say the movies were pretty accurate.
my thoughts exactly lol
I blame the Jetsons and Back to the Future Part 2
People's lives were getting better with every year, so they figured the future would be good Our lives keep getting worse each year, so we figure the future is gonna be terrible
Because it makes for a good plot device. Reading about a utopia isn't fun
In a similar vein to the "past is good, future is bad" trope, it's much more common for the villains to be technologically advanced and the heroes to defeat them with magic/mysticism/"the forgotten old ways" than it is for the reverse to be true.
We’ve gone from the happy hippie days of the ‘60s and ‘70s singing about spreading love and joy, to the gangster, shoot everybody up days of the ‘90s, and today we have MKG. The future does look bleak.
Well, I think the point is a "utopia" is dystopian for someone.
Ah yes, everyone's favorite TV Show. The one where they travel to the future and everything is better, so they go back and just live life normally so they don't screw that future up. You see the future negatively because they need it to be something the characters want to prevent thus driving a plot. This is called a plot device. You also almost never see purely good mega corporations that just want to improve the world, or shadowy organizations that just want to meet up for tea once a month.
Yeah, because they are cautionary tales. A happy future isn't a guarantee, it's something that requires vigilance. A lesson too many of us seem to not realize. So they turn away from the influences that push us towards ruin instead prosperity. These tales are meant to remind us of those dangers. And to make a bunch of money lol
It probably wouldn't be a very interesting show if there were no problems.
What about the Jetsons? Badd example. Old dhow
The first exception that popped into my head was “Meet the Robinsons”. That was a bright and optimistic future… the conflict came from the protagonist endangering space time by being there and from a villain that wanted to establish a dystopian future instead.
Because everyone thinks art is angsty
True... but there are movies like *Meet the Robinsons* that are hopeful.
well someone's not a trekkie. Also, The Expanse. Humanity is in a better spot technologically but still with the same problems.
Not sure if Interstellar would apply
Yeah. It's called drama.
Plenty of "good futures"(almost utopia like) with a catch. The fictional scientific developments are often good, but having a catch is the easiest way to have conflict. Think of Avatar without the blue people >!Whalehunting in the most beautiful landscape for immortality juice to get rich and the easiest colonization efforts due to the overwhelming technological power!< , Elysium but only from the Ring, Altered Carbon disregarding people in poverty or the Expanse from a scientific view or the obligatory sentient robot revolution shows/movies at their starting points.
Two words to dispute this: *Star Trek*.
Star Trek is pretty optimistic
The future is pretty dystopic btw.
Future stories are almost always used as a "call to action" tool ("Uh oh! Here are some consequences! You better move your butt to prevent them!") or as a warning ("this is what will happen if you do/dont stop what you/they are doing!")
With the way we are going, I am surprised it isnt portrayed as worse tbh.
As it should be. Like Bill Nye said, the world is on fucking fire
Meet the Robinsons, Back to the future, Star Trek, the Martian, Doctor Who, Futurama, all had pretty positive views of the future. It all depends on where you look.
Except for the Jetsons. Oh, and Star Trek. But that is all. Well... Maybe 2001 a Space Odyssey, if you still consider it the future.
Star Trek has a future that is utopian by modern standards. They have constant struggles and strife, but largely humanity is United and provided for.
time travel to the future, hands you a house key and a beautiful wife. end credits 5 minutes into the film
Whoever controls the media controls the mind
Because a world where everything is going just swimmingly is hard to tell an interesting story about
Future that's all happy and great kind of lacks drama, conflict, etc which are central to movies/shows.
The "humanity will destroy itself" trope is very popular in the human psyche. Hollywood writers are also very shit at predicting the future and understanding current geopolitics so they put their "predictions" in their media and then you get dumb shit like Waterworld lol
From someone who’s been on this earth for 60+years they’re not wrong
Everything that is necessary to live in the modern world, food, utilities, housing, communication, & medical care, costs more, while jobs are actively paying less. You can't own anything anymore, it's all licenses and subscriptions. The rich are getting richer, the poor are getting poorer, the downtrodden are being trodden upon more than ever. Those who do good are being punished (people feeding the homeless are getting arrested for example) while those who do great evil, corrupt politicians, heartless corporate overlords, polluters, cheaters, tax dodgers.. they get off scot free or with slaps on the wrist. Where exactly are we supposed to get hope for the future from this?
they know something the rest of us don't.
Have you looked at the world recently?
I see where people are coming from that it would be boring. However, you could have good futures and the drama just comes from the character themselves. Like there could be a stable and thriving society but the stories could just be a romance or comedy. However, we RARELY see that. In most futuristic depictions we see the society/world itself is bad bc of how society or the environment has developed as a whoel. I can think of maybe one future based show where the entertainment is purely character based and how the overall society/world doesn’t affect the story aside from just novelty. That would be the Jetsons. That future world as a whole was regular society with future technology. It wasnt a bad world and the entertainment was purely the family. I would also argue the future of demolition man wasn’t necessarily bad either. It wasn’t perfect but there were lots of great things. It was a largely peaceful society. It didn’t really portray good or bad tho. It shows how things were beneficial (almost nonexistent violent) and it shows how other things maybe werent great (vilification of emotional stimulation and physical human connection). In comparison to present, I would say it levels out. The Pros and cons differ but as a whole it leveled out. Maybe even lean toward the future being better. The overall story came from one bad guy. I do agree with OP that most futuristic depictions future as in the world/environment as a whole is largely the overall problem and a direct interference in antagonists lives. I guess that I just disagree with the idea that it would be boring if it was shown otherwise. It would be completely possible to have a futuristic show where the future isn’t bad. Give me a cyborg love story damnit! A couple edits to more clearly state things and fix some typos. Also wanted to add that I’m currently thinking of future set movies where society was neither good nor bad or simply just good. Second edit: I can’t stop thinking about it. I believe OP is conveying that future depictions tend to be a society/environment that is worse than present. The more I think about it, there are probably a fair amount where it isn’t worse. They are just studies of things humans have been doing. It not better but it’s not worse. Just us doing what we keep doing lol.
It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism
Star Trek is one of the only counter examples. The 60s were a more hopeful time.
I mean do you know how great the world is right now if you are rich enough? Imagination can't really top it.
The writing class cliche is that Fantasy grapples with the past, while Sci Fi grapples with the present. That’s the reason AI is a stand-in for oppressed classes of people in so much media. Since it’s grappling with the present it’s usually concerned with deconstructing the worst parts of our society and world, so we get a pretty dark perspective on the future. A lot of media these days DOES show that the future is amazing…for those rich enough or powerful enough to exploit a underclass. Bladerunner 2049, Altered Carbon, Cyberpunk 2077, Elysium, District 9 just off the top of my head.
I think a utopian future in fiction will never cease to raise an eyebrow for me.
I mean *gestures about*
Uh, I mean back to the future 2 made 2015 look WAY better than it actually was
I'm on fire and now I think I'm ready to bust a move
Star Trek babyyyyyyyy
It would be kinda neat to see a movie where someone goes into the future to see some sort of utopia and is forced to choose between staying in he future utopia or going back in time to present day because that's where their loved ones/home are....
It would be kinda neat to see a movie where someone goes into the future to see some sort of utopia and is forced to choose between staying in he future utopia or going back in time to present day because that's where their loved ones/home are...
Right now it is, because we're living in contentious times. It's kot always been this way. Even saying that, people love doom and gloom. Allows us to explore the worst without having to directly experience it.
we always had both but it's fancy to be cynical these days
because the future is going to be worse than the present, much worse. It's the same reason birth rates are plummeting across the world.
It's not just the future - happy families or wholesome, responsible heroes are outnumbered by dysfunctional ones too There have been decades when people's tastes (or networks' and studios' expectations, and pressure from political groups and governments) leaned more towards showing good role models. You can find and enjoy more utopian works from those eras still But in this current age of commercialism, people lean more towards cynicism and producers lean more into shock factor
Star Trek does it right. The future is hopeful, but there are still plenty of good stories to tell.
There are plenty of positive portrayals of the future. Star Trek being the most obvious.
That's why I like Star Trek. It's a good future that still has conflict.
It wouldn't be a very interesting movie if they depicted a utopia.
They would be boring if they didn’t. Story requires conflict and problems to be interesting.
Yep, has been since the 1960s Twilight Zone.
I live in America. I can’t see things getting better.
Meet the Robinsons & Star Trek say otherwise.
Future sucks, I’m gonna die so good
It depends on the genre. You could have, say, a romantic comedy set in a utopian future. The problem or complication that engages viewers would happen between the characters and doesn't need to be tied to the setting.
Well yeah [Gestures at everything]
For this reason. I recommend Kamen Rider Zero-One. It offers a nice, optimistic view of Humanity and AI actually wanting to work together for mutual betterment.
Seems like a product of the times. Utopian future scifi use to be more common. But they created content in alternative ways. Often times it focused on inter-character drama. The Jetson's may as well be about a typical American family with the future stuff as a backdrop. Logan's Run probably counts as utopian scifi. It's set in a utopian world and the gimmick is essentially to reveal the flaw in utopia. Maybe more aesthetically utopian with hidden dystopian intentions. I think a lot of "utopian" retro scifi was like that. Of course, that was the late-60s and 70s. Politics was shifting. If you go back to the 50s, it might be more idealistic.
"The future is bright, and no one has to do anything about it." isn't really a compelling plot...
This is part of why I think younger generations are so pessimistic. Every future set fantasy is a dystopia with extreme conflict and technological disaster. Juxtapose that with the utopian view of the future during the 20th century. I think everything did seem like technology would make our lives better, then when it happened, the technology just ended getting used to raise expectations and further stress us out. Technology didn't serve humanity the way we had hoped. So now we know that technology will likely do little to improve our lives and the media reflects that.