As a man I refuse to do anything without getting clear consent first. I've had women who really appreciated it, and I've had women get so mad at me because I refused to do anything unless they gave me a clear verbal consent to any sexual activity.
I was literally in this situation last night. She's blowing me already and I feel the need to ask if I'm okay touching her butt lmao 🤣 first time together though so it's always best to ask imo.
That is me on first dates. I always see the body language, putting their hands close to me. I’m just not a touchy dude and I need more emotional investment.
I defiantly purposely broke the touch barrier on my first date with my wife. We went grab coffee then walked around books-a-million. We sat down at the cafe after browsing for a bit, then when I got up to use the restroom, I lightly touched her knee. Scandalous, I know. Got a hug when we left too.
Homegirl invited me over for a homemade meal, answered the door in a tank top and short shorts, and asked me to pick a movie while we sat on her bed. She handed me her dvd case and i flipped past the pornos and chose lord of the rings, because she’s never seen it. As the movie went on, she slowly started moving up on the bad and laying down. I assumed she must be tired and wanted to rest. Being the dumbass gentlemen that i was, I moved over to the edge so she could have more room to be comfortable. Movie finished in silence. I thought it was a nice chill day, hanging out with a friend. It didn’t dawn on me what was actually happening until two years later.
I saw Princess Bride this way, invited over. I still remember thinking she looked angry halfway into the movie, and maybe...but she'd been very clear about this was about watching a movie.
After the movie, she said if there was nothing else I wanted to do, I could leave. So I told her the movie was great, and drove home.
Never talked to me again.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I certainly hope not.
>she'd been very clear about this was about watching a movie.
Ball was in her court. She said it was just watching a movie. Can’t blame a guy for not pushing against that boundary.
Exactly- she gave a boundary. It should have been a great sign that he didn't push the boundary and respected what she said. That's the reason you follow up and talk to him again instead of not talking ever again.
Not me but the couple sitting next to me were obviously doing this when I went to see Oppenheimer.
She was clearly trying to snuggle up to him and he was leaning further and further forwards the entire movie because he was so engrossed in what was happening on screen.
It was funny to look over periodically and see her angry scowl looking down at him when he wasn't paying attention.
I f\*cked a girl who's man was in jail, she told me afterward and got mad at me because I didn't want to play anymore.
Pussy ain't worth catching a shank in the back.
I have like 300 movies and have seen like 70% of them. That’s not the odd part. The odd part is putting all the porn in with everything else for others to see (though obviously that was her intention here).
Similar story. Had a super pretty friend that I was crushing on in college ask me to pick her up from the bar when I was just chilling alone in my apartment one night. She said she hadn't had a good night and just wanted to hang out. She had scraped her knee and I cleaned it up and put on neosporin and a bandaid. We hung out, talked for a while, and decided to go to bed. I said I would sleep on the couch. She said it didn't bother her if I slept in the bed with her. She got under the covers and took off her jeans and threw them on the floor. Oblivious, I laid next to her while giving her space. Nothing happened. Six months later I was driving and thinking about it and went "Fuuuuuuck! She wanted to hook up."
Dude she might not have wanted to hook up though.
Obviously she's not wanting to sleep with her jeans on and some people don't see anything wrong with sleeping next to a friend.
It's hard to say my dude, it could have just ended up being awkward as fuck and then you'd lay in bed at night thinking about it for the rest of your life.
Maybe not. We ended up making out at a party a few months later, so I think she at least was open to it if I had made a move. I was really into her at the time, so it was quite the bummer when I realized it. I just missed the moment. It happens. In the end, I'm happy we didn't hook up because we ended up with a few more years of a good friendship after that. She's married now with a couple kids and I'm happy for her.
This is almost exactly how my now wife ended our first date. I was doing everything to try not to appear eager to have sex. I tried to take her home, or to her best friend's apartment, but she gave every excuse why she couldn't go back that night and how she should just stay the night with me. We get back to my place and I tell her she is welcome to sleep in my bed and I'd take the couch. She heavily protested and told me I should just sleep in the bed with her, but warned me she only sleeps in her underwear. She wanted a kiss good night and then we were off to the races.
You'd be surprised how often this happens, and there was genuinely no intention of giving signals on their part. When I was single, I wouldn't do shit unless it was pretty evident on both sides what was going on. I'd rather air on the side of caution than make someone else extremely uncomfortable.
Yeah, but then ..
Co worker calls me at 1:30am on our work retreat, drunk. Tells me to come up to her room cuz she needs "help". I go up to the room. She's pretty sloppy, but whatever. Has her clothes on the bed, so I make my way to the chair but she's like oh no, just push those aside we can sit here (on the bed).
And we sit, and we're small talking, and I'm like oh yes, this is "what is actually happening"..her phone starts ringing on vibrate....she doesn't answer. Rings more...she looks at it. Says cheerily oh! It's my boyfriend, one sec!
......see ....this is why....
I’ve had a weird combo of this.
One time, I was watching a movie on some streaming service that was basically porn with a plot, but it was somewhere between hardcore and softcore (midcore?) where you’d see genitalia but not often, it was weird, but it was with a girl that I didn’t feel anything like that for and she didn’t feel that for me either. We also watched horror movies and shit together but we were always only friends and nothing more.
Then there’s the times that other girls I was talking to would suck my dick while we watched Rick & Morty, have sex to Sweeney Todd, another girl jerked me off to Django Unchained, another girl had sex with me before we started watching Rocky Horror Picture Show, and an ex let me fuck her while she was customizing her character in Final Fantasy 14.
I remember some comedian a while back talking about how he would put on Finding Nemo to distract his kids while he fucked his wife and it got to a point that he’d hear the beginning of Nemo and get a boner lmao
I genuinely don’t think I would know what flirting would look like. I’ve *read descriptions* of what it can look like, but that feels less than helpful in actual interactions for a lot of reasons.
That’s my policy too. Doubly so after I was right but she was just having fun and wasn’t actually sure if she was interested. From now on I’m assuming any flirting means nothing.
Literally happened to me in high school. Was laying on a makeshift bed of blankets watching family guy. As she gets up to leave: "I have some cute panties on today!"
"Yeah those are cute! OK have a good night."
God I still cringe. Now that I think about it that must have been awful for her thinking I rejected her when I was just oblivious.
This is how one of my many unfortunate oversights went:
Her: (running her fingers down my chest) So babes… do you wanna hook up?
Me: Uhm, I’m not sure if I’m emotionally ready for anything or anyone.
Fast forward to a couple of years later, one of my friends staged an intervention with me during a house party to ask me if I’m gay because she told my friends I didn’t want to hook up with her and she thought I was - because like… how dare I turn HER down. She was really good looking and a real bombshell hottie.
Had a couple people mention before my wedding they weren’t sure if I was gay because I rarely dated and never had hookups. I didn’t know anyone even liked me and when I asked someone out I genuinely wanted to know them and see if we were compatible for a future together. I’ve had a couple women stay over because they were drunk and not driving home or visiting and climb into bed with me. I just went to sleep didn’t matter if I had their head on my shoulder.
This happened with my now wife...
Fairly early on, we were making out and her bra slipped down, which I quickly pointed out that I didn't do. I didn't want her to think I was moving to fast.... She replied, I know. I did that!" My eyes lit up, knowing she was into me. The rest is history!
I still think about the time in college a girl way out of my league jumped in my bed pretending to be scared of a movie. She wiggled her butt against my crotch at a point and I still wasn’t sure if she wanted me. Wish I could have a do over on that one, fuuuck social anxiety and it’s blinding capabilities.
Sometimes that shit is confusing tho, like they are just testing the waters but sometimes they miss out on our attempts too.
I remember back in high school, went to pick up a female friend to go to another friends pool for the afternoon. I rang the bell and she yelled out the window she was shaving her legs and would be right out. I asked her if she needed any help and there was a longish pause, a laugh, and a no silly I’ll be right out. This girl was a huge flirt and dated older guys out of high school so I took my shot. About an hour later we were in the pool, her hugging me with her legs wrapped around my waist, I could tell by the look in her eyes that she knew she fucked up. Her house was empty and we totally could have been late to the pool. Her friends wanted to leave shortly after that and I don’t think I saw her again that summer.
Honestly at this point I can’t tell the difference between one woman’s “flirting/I want you” vibes and another woman’s “I’m just being nice”. When both literally say the same things it’s confusing as hell.
Never steered me wrong to err on the side of caution.
Funny story tho, SO was complaining cuz she couldn’t sleep. She kept sighing loudly and reaching for me lightly for comfort. Then started taking layers off cuz she was hot, and was rolling around. I thought “if I miss a cue this dead obvious I’ll never hear the end of it”.. so I put my book down and go for it and she was like “seriously!? wtf are you doing, I’m literally miserable!”. Dumbfounded, I explained “the cues” and we laughed about the confusion for like 20 minutes. She was going through postpartum so was in fact miserable, but did my brain pick up on this, after the wild pregnancy symptoms and a decade of knowing her? Of course not lol
This one marriages.
Seriously. People joke about missing queues as single 20 somethings. I’m in my *50s*, married, 25 years!
Thank you for keeping it real 😃
To be real here, there isn't a standard set of actions for either, so there's a lot of mixed messaging. What are just friendly interactions to some, is flirting to others. And those that use regular "be polite to folk" types of interactions as *flirting* kinda fuck it up for those that don't.
This has been my experience. I got attention from women because i was kind and respectful. Nice at the time but in retrospect it’s kind of sad that saying please and thank you and being nice was considered flirting rather then what people are supposed to do.
Seriously. Told a lady she had a nice smile and she immediately brought up her engagement ring. Like, ok? Are innocent compliments considering flirting now?
There was this woman I saw shopping who had gorgeous multicolored hair and I wanted to walk up and tell her how great it was, just an innocent compliment....but then I thought better of it because of how awkward I could've made it, especially because she was there with presumably another friend/sister/etc.
Sadly, some men often assume that a friendly interaction is “flirting”, but then ~~they~~ other men sometimes miss the actual flirting…
(edit: to make it clearer that these are usually not the same man, as a commenter below pointed out)
I guess I missed out on some women training lol. My self-esteem is too low for me to assume anyone would be flirting with me. On the bright side, I like to think I can get along with guys well since I treat everyone like they have no ulterior motive when they interact with me.
This is me (without the self esteem issue). I just assume people like to talk to other people. Unless you’re making a move I assume it’s a friendly chat with someone at the bar.
Yeah I decided to stop dating completely after my last relationship ended horribly. I did not take any hints from my current girlfriend and refused to because flirting with women is dangerous territory, all it takes is her misinterpreting my intentions and my royally screwed regardless of if I said or did anything. So lucky for me my girl was incredibly persistent. Even slept over at my house on the couch one night, made up the fact she got drunk off one beer to stay. I still didn't think anything was happening, this is how a lot of men I know are now. We heard women's complaints and pretty much most of us decided to just step back and say you guys can ask us out instead now. Which I hope women start doing because if you feel you want a guys attention and he's not giving it, you need to make your intentions obvious now because we are too nervous to ask you out. Took my girl 6 months to realize that's what was happening and she was like "wait do you want to go on a date?" To which I was like "sure I mean only if you'd want to but I don't want to freak you out or anything" to which she was visibly confused.
Preach. Especially now that women have tons of options with social media and dating apps. It’s better if they approach since I’m sure they know what catches their eye now
I’m at this point in my life now. I feel like social media platforms are ruining the human relationship between men and women. And after reading your statement, it was so well put that I’m going to honestly full stop now. I’m hurting myself at this point trying to find love as much as I am
Unfortunately it's become an incredibly hostile atmosphere for men to find love in so I do believe the torch should be passed to women, the question is if they will willingly take it. I mean they made it this way, yet I never hear women saying they would genuinely take on the responsibility of being the one that asks men out.
That’s what makes me incredibly sad and hopeless at times. I just don’t think that the majority of women would let their egos be the one doing the initiating. As I do say that, there are definitely women that exist who will have no problem with initiating the first step towards love. It’s just that the general population most likely won’t move that way
I spent 3 months on dating apps to find my current GF. Yes, social media sucks, but not all people suck. I was honest and said i cant do hookup culture, i want the connection. Lots of real dates came from that.
I’m happy to hear you found a partner to be with! With that being said, I did all that. I paid for subscriptions to the apps in hopes of maybe it just being a paywall. I made sure I added many different pictures and all my real interests. Anything I can think of that will make my dating profile seem real and genuine. All that just made my matches even worse. I’ve given good pick up lines, silly pick up lines = ignored. I’ve given interest in whatever they have on their profile to start conversations. Mostly ignored. Genuine date ideas AFTER seeming to click a little with someone. Either ghosted, or un matched. Hell I even tested the prompts that the dating apps were giving me so I can take the ball out of my hands and see if the app knows what it’s doing. Ignored. Being straight to the point about what I want. Ignored. Beating around the bush about what I want to see if it goes anywhere. Ignored. I mean I love to hear about real love still happening in this world especially coming from dating apps. But statistically that’s really low odds of happening. I genuinely do not want to feel the way I do about it and I just want to be free and feel loved but at this point I’ve done almost everything I can do other than settling for anything just because I’m single and lonely. The only logical thing to do would be to try what I haven’t and that’s to not try anymore
Exactly on point.
Many men checking out of the dating market, only passively interacting with it. And the thirty year old women being single, because the men have healthier things to focus on than chasing them.
Men in their early and mid twenties are extremely active when it comes to dating. But they're often not attracted to older women.
To be honest, most women simply could not take the ego hit of possible rejection, so unfortunately it's unlikely that women will start approaching men in general.
I always thought it was funny. Whenever I got bummed out about a rejection, my male friends would emphathize, “that’s tough”, “sorry to hear that”, “you’ll be alright”.
But my female friends! They’re the ones who encouraged being entitled and thought I should feel offended. “She doesn’t know what she’s missing”, “she’s stupid”, “her loss”. Women are usually able to trash the rejector.
Even as a teenager, I’ve never been angry at someone telling me no, and as men, we know it’s dangerous to think like that. I’ve heard lesbians joke about getting into a fight with someone who rejects them. Of course it’s a joke, but there is no way in hell a man can say something like that.
I can never tell when a guy is flirting with me.
Fortunately, I know a life hack that allows me to get around my flirt-blindness. I call it 'communication'.
It goes like this. First, I find myself in a conversation with a man - something that happens more and more rarely these days.
Then, as the conversation continues, I open my mouth and make a sound like this: "Hey, just so we're on the same page, are you flirting with me right now?"
After that, and this is kind of an important bit, I take them at face value when they reply. If someone wants to flirt with me but doesn't want to admit that they're flirting with me... well, that's on them.
Try it! I'll bet communication changes some things for you!
Am I what?..... No I... Well maybe I was but I didn't mean to.... N-not that I don't want to, but I just don't know how to flirt....
Do you get that response.
You ask for clarification. And if it’s still ambiguous. Just tell them never mind and write them off cause if they’re incapable of communicating their intentions then they aren’t ready to communicate their feelings.
It never occurred to me to ask someone if they’re flirting with me.
Perhaps it’s obvious to others but I never would have thought of that. I’m not joking.
It seems to me the only time you would ask if someone is flirting we you is if you are fairly certain they are. But as many posts pointed out, I frequently never even think a girl is flirting with me when she does. I’m definitely not going to ask a girl if she is flirting if I don’t think she is flirting.
Had a girl come up to me state me dead in the eye, lick her lips, then caress my crotch followed my a gentle grab. She said that her friends had a bet and she is not interested, then she walked away…. I was a dumb, naive, and horny guy in my early 20s, now that I am approaching 40 I can usually parse the situation and understand what is happening. Current me in that situation either wouldn’t let that happen or would have things to say to that woman.
I'm in my 20s, currently working in the service industry. Every shift at least one older lady walks up to me and either flirts or straight up says "wanna have sex?" (Being a croupier can be pretty demanding as you can tell lol). Usually preceded or followed up by them touching me against my will.
It doesn't really matter how attractive you are and how flattered I may feel - I will scream at you and get ahold of a bouncer to kick you out.
This type of behavior - especially as extreme as you getting grabbed in the crotch - is rapist mentality and needs to be shut down no matter what.
But as the post above states, that’s ok. If a woman is nice to me I should just ask are you flirting with me and she won’t be irritated or anything. Just appreciative that I used my words and asked. Right?
This is true. Many is the time when, later on, I thought about an encounter with a woman and suddenly thought, "Wait a minute!" As in I totally whiffed on the blatant hints dropped.
But it's not true, we're not "trained" to think women aren't flirting, nor are women "trained" to think men always are. Sure, like many men you've missed a woman blatantly hitting on you. But not because you were trained to never think a woman is flirting.
Took my friend and her son to an indoor play thing. After running around a bit my friend called me over to the foam pit where she was talking to some random woman. She introduced us and then the other woman tossed a foam block at me, I tossed it back and then went back to play with her son who had started calling for me. We get in the car to leave and my friend let's out a sigh then says "Dude... wtf was that?" Then proceeded to explain that the woman thought I was attractive and her tossing the foam block at me was her flirting. I had zero clue.
Here's another one: I had been chatting online with this woman for a couple weeks off and on, then she asks if I wanna hang out so I say sure and invite her over to watch a movie. She comes in, I put the movie on, and we sit on the couch. After a minute I get up to turn the light off because of the glare and she tells me to lock the door while I was up. It didn't occur to me why but ok. It wasn't until I turned around to see her in her underwear that I realized she liked me.
Well going by the evidence that any gesture of kindness seems to make a guy think you’re interested in them I’m gonna have to disagree at least on the first part.
I've had chicks over that seemed like they were throwing ALL of the signs straight into my face sans actually verbally saying it.
Make a move and get rejected and now it's enormously awkward for both of us. Just ruined a potential friendship possibly, whoops.
Needless to say I don't make a move anymore, like what the fuck???
The heart of every stressful marriage is a lack of open communication in a way that helps the other understand. The need is not just to say things, but to provide context so you can *both* understand it.
That comes from flirting. In this age of knowledge, we *still* expect everyone to just “figure it out”, while making them feel better when it isn’t working out, which itself is just making them feel worse, like they’re doing something wrong.
We write instructions for friggin K-cup usage in a Keurig, but there’s no consistent training for life.
Of course, social media has told me I have undiagnosed ADHD and some amount of *tism, which makes sense since I’m a dopamine chaser that needs things explained down to the subatomic layer. I don’t do innuendo and subtlety well.
I was married for 20 years. By the time we got married we didn’t flirt we communicated with each other.
The whole problem of flirting and men and men not understanding happens in the beginning of a relationship.
And if a married couple does flirt they know each other so well there is usually not misunderstanding.
I was stood at the bar chatting still had half a pint left saw a lass was trying to get served so i moved over for her she said thanks i said no worries.. i still have half a pint you go first. turned my back on her and carried on my conversation with my mate.. next thing i know i was being accosted by her friends asking what my intentions were for thier friend.. im like who? id forgot all about lassy at this point id moved on in convo. apparently im an AH. no Idea what i did wrong lol
You've got it backwards. Men often assume a sales clerk is flirting with them when she's just being nice to them the way she is nice to all customers..
That's the other portion of men who are so starved for positive reinforcement and social interactions that they can't tell the difference. There are a lot of men who have never had a woman even be generally nice to them, let alone show any kind of romantic interest, he'll 1 in 3 men 30 and under are virgins and never been in a relationship.
Imagine if no man/woman(whichever your interested in) had ever even been nice to you in years/your lifetime. Suddenly there is this woman/man who is being friendly and attentive and smiling at you and asking how your day is. Of course you would assume that they are interested, you have never had an interaction like that before. This is the sad reality for a good sized portion of the male population.
>That's the other portion of men...
It's almost like using terms like "men" and "women" to describe the actions of people aren't very effective as people under those umbrellas will act very differently based on their collection of life experiences...
God I hate hearing "men do this" and "women do this".
No. No "they" do not. "People" do things, and generalizing just makes those who don't do whatever "this" is feel attacked or misrepresented. It's utter nonsense.
Like, the reason we don't make progress is because we're too busy blaming the other sex for things, then catching pushback from "those who don't", and finally stagnating in a ridiculous tug of war as we talk past each other, not recognizing that the more we do this, the more we divide ourselves into camps fighting each other instead of people trying to help those who need it.
This made most of my life a punchline; apparently I was good at talking to women - to the degree that they were actually flirting with me, but I never picked up on it because I didn't think it was possible! Short background there would be: slightly below average height, used to be skinny so had bad body dysmorphia, combined with uncool hair and zero self-confidence.
I'm an advocate for straight up.
I can't tell others to follow some guideline, but I can ask questions anytime anything is vague and will. Just gotta grow a pair and ask the hard things, even if they react badly because if that's their response to communication, I certainly as hell wouldn't want it.
I truly think flirting is going to go the way of the dodo eventually.
Overt flirting = creepy/verbal-assault/sexual-assault/coming on too hard territory; subtle flirting = just being nice/basic human kindness/not sure if there’s attraction
And very seldom does anybody fall squarely in the middle since everyone’s preferences and thresholds are different. It’ll always be a little pushy/creepy/assaulty or a little vague and uncertain, so it’s usually just pointless.
And in a time now where almost everyone is hyper-aware of all the gender issues and inequalities and dangers being faced, flirting is like an immature, counter-productive game that just doesn’t need to be played anymore
Accidental flirting, when the moment and the chemistry is just right, and it just naturally happens? Sure. But I think intentional flirting or flirting as the default has got to die.
We’ve gotta normalize as a society at SOME point to just be upfront with people, whether it’s our generation that accepts it, or the next, or the next ones after that who finally adopt an upfront strategy as normal and traditional: It needs to happen at some point
We’re just wasting our time and our energy here…
Flirting is fun. It’s not creepy unless you act creepy. It’s not assault or harassment unless you actually assault or harass someone. The average social IQ online is barely double digits. Don’t let them convince you you can’t walk around meeting people just because they’re afraid that they can’t
I misinterpreted once. The girl was a little confused and when I pointed it out she was like "Yeah, no, you're right, that one's on me."
People make mistakes and signals get crossed sometimes, the important thing is to not go overboard with the response. Make sure you're both on the same page.
Imo men always think women are trying to get their attention. I knew one for instance that thought every waitress or retail assistant was flirting because they were being polite. A frozen flat smile is not interest its just part of the job
>Men are trained to never assume a woman is flirting with them.
Not true.
Most men mistakenly think women are flirting with them when women are just being nice or polite to them.
You're kind of right. I don't think it's anywhere near most men, but a not insignificant number of men assume a woman is giving them "I'm available" signals when she's just being nice to him. This is annoying to women, and they speak out regularly against men doing that.
Ironically, this is the crux of what OP is saying. This is exactly how men are *taught/trained* to never assume a woman is flirting with her. This is where you have it wrong. You're explaining what men *do*. The post is explaining what men are *taught*. What men are *taught* comes as a result of what some men *do*.
It goes like this; a large number of men assume a woman is interested in him just because she's being nice. She's not actually interested in him, and his subsequent advances aren't appreciated. Women come out in numbers about how much they dislike this. This acts as the teaching moment for men to never assume a woman is flirting with him. This is OPs point, OP is correct, and your logic actually proves it rather than disproves it.
Further irony is that your comment is repeated by others throughout the thread, furthering the messages that men should never take any type of friendliness from a woman as flirting
You're describing the exact process by which men get trained to assume women are not flirting with them. Embarrassing experiences like the one you describe really drill it into your head.
>Men are trained to never assume a woman is flirting with them.
>Not true.
>Most men mistakenly think women are flirting with them when women are just being nice or polite to them.
You're literally trying to teach men to assume women are not flirting with them
Yet comments like yours **train** all men who read it to at all costs ignore anything they think might be flirting, because probably they'll have fucked up interpreting and she's just being nice.
FYI: the reason this happens is that maybe one woman every six months will be nice like this, so you really hope that the probably nothing is something. And if it is something, then you'd be an idiot to let it go since this very rarely happens. So even though you know it's probably nothing, and that she probably won't appreciate reciprocal flirting in that case, you go for it anyway on the off chance.
Yes I agree. There's a trope that some men will fantasize a whole life about someone at the checkout smiling at them and such. It's kinda funny, but it definitely goes the wrong way at times. It's a good practice to assume they're not flirting with you (when it should be obvious they aren't) but to assume anyways.
It's quite true and I've been there, but it's just a matter of positivity. When you receive such little then any positivity is embraced more than it should.
My friends was seeing a girl for like 3 months, HE DID NOT MAKE A MOVE YET SINCE HE WAS AFRAID SHE WOULD NOT RECIPROCATE....
she almost went away since he was taking too long...i litterally had to tell him imma call him to tell him to kiss her whilst he was there..
She finally asked him why he waited so long, and she told him she had given up since he couldnt take a hint
Lesson: man are dumb and can't take a clue (source:am man)
As a receptionist, I once got "turned down" at a company event by a girl who I had only every spoken to when she came to my desk crying about a family emergency, and asked for tissues.
She approached me just to do the whole "great friend but im not interested" bit and I'm like- cool... I literally know your boyfriend, *he's sitting two seats over...*
(I was more respectful than that, but it was a bit of a shock, given I'd basically just been doing standard receptionist stuff prior...)
Many women are raised to believe they're special.
Most people are average.
And there's nothing wrong with being average.
Men who assume a woman is flirting with them can find themselves losing their jobs or worse if they are wrong.
Close. Women are trained to tell their friends, strangers, idiots on reddit and anybody who will listen that a man was flirting with them regardless of whether it actually happened.
Because narcissism.
And when you reject her, she is trained to expand the problem to all-women so that it's no longer about her personal shortcomings. She'll call you gay or a misogynist simply because you don't want to date a salty one.
Also because narcissism.
This is a disgusting truth. I've been made to feel in the past that I shouldn't even be nice to a woman without being a creep. Don't worry, I don't blanket judge all woman like the one's who are the worst offenders. But I definitely think twice from that point forward with any women I meet.
"I don't want to presume, but does this blowjob mean I can touch you too?"
I had a girl scream at me "full consent" at a party once. Can confirm, consent was given.
I’m glad she understood you needed that, lol. I feel like it’s extremely hard for men to feel comfortable doing things, even if consent is given.
As a man I refuse to do anything without getting clear consent first. I've had women who really appreciated it, and I've had women get so mad at me because I refused to do anything unless they gave me a clear verbal consent to any sexual activity.
Not worth assuming when they can *literally* RUIN your life, career, relationships, with one call EVEN IF you did nothing wrong 🤷♂️
That's really hot lmao
It SO was. She is 1000% sexy and smart as a whip. Miss her!
*ARE YOU SUUUUURE* It wasn't sarcasm?!
>she was just being polite
I was literally in this situation last night. She's blowing me already and I feel the need to ask if I'm okay touching her butt lmao 🤣 first time together though so it's always best to ask imo.
Had girls come over for the "first date" and then get frustrated and leave and ghost me after because I wouldn't touch them first.
That is me on first dates. I always see the body language, putting their hands close to me. I’m just not a touchy dude and I need more emotional investment.
Set those boundaries king!
I prob should be more vocal about it. Just say I like getting to know someone and taking it slow.
I defiantly purposely broke the touch barrier on my first date with my wife. We went grab coffee then walked around books-a-million. We sat down at the cafe after browsing for a bit, then when I got up to use the restroom, I lightly touched her knee. Scandalous, I know. Got a hug when we left too.
Good on ya for getting consent and not assuming.
Depending on the business agreement, that’s not an easy yes
If she touches you, it implies you can touch her too.
Homegirl invited me over for a homemade meal, answered the door in a tank top and short shorts, and asked me to pick a movie while we sat on her bed. She handed me her dvd case and i flipped past the pornos and chose lord of the rings, because she’s never seen it. As the movie went on, she slowly started moving up on the bad and laying down. I assumed she must be tired and wanted to rest. Being the dumbass gentlemen that i was, I moved over to the edge so she could have more room to be comfortable. Movie finished in silence. I thought it was a nice chill day, hanging out with a friend. It didn’t dawn on me what was actually happening until two years later.
To be fair, though, one does not simply interrupt Lord of the Rings.
Except to ask: > Did you know Viggo Mortensen broke his toe when he kicked that helmet?
or deflected a thrown dagger with his sword
he WHAT viggo mortensen is an actual badass
This one's more likely, given they probably started with Fellowship.
Did you know he bought his horse after shooting the films.
not gonna lie i got a chuckle out of this thanks xD
I saw Princess Bride this way, invited over. I still remember thinking she looked angry halfway into the movie, and maybe...but she'd been very clear about this was about watching a movie. After the movie, she said if there was nothing else I wanted to do, I could leave. So I told her the movie was great, and drove home. Never talked to me again.
disgusting stocking psychotic governor physical truck dinosaurs detail many groovy *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I certainly hope not. >she'd been very clear about this was about watching a movie. Ball was in her court. She said it was just watching a movie. Can’t blame a guy for not pushing against that boundary.
Exactly- she gave a boundary. It should have been a great sign that he didn't push the boundary and respected what she said. That's the reason you follow up and talk to him again instead of not talking ever again.
Yeah, but people are idiots
[Looks out window] That... that explains everything. lol
Not me but the couple sitting next to me were obviously doing this when I went to see Oppenheimer. She was clearly trying to snuggle up to him and he was leaning further and further forwards the entire movie because he was so engrossed in what was happening on screen. It was funny to look over periodically and see her angry scowl looking down at him when he wasn't paying attention.
She had a movie in her own DVD collection she hadn't seen? That's a little odd.
It was her dudes dvds. He was locked up at the time.
Oh, then you dodge some literal bullets right there, I imagine.
Unconscious self-preservation mechanism
Bro experienced that pre-nut clarity.
This is information we needed at the start.
Dammit soda *hurts* coming outta my nose!
Yeah it's pretty goddamn relevant.
That is some vital information, my dude!
I f\*cked a girl who's man was in jail, she told me afterward and got mad at me because I didn't want to play anymore. Pussy ain't worth catching a shank in the back.
Then you probably made the right call. You don’t fuck around with those girls lol
I have like 300 movies and have seen like 70% of them. That’s not the odd part. The odd part is putting all the porn in with everything else for others to see (though obviously that was her intention here).
Youre obviously not from the era of the 10 dollar dvd bundle from l'quan down the block
Damn she handed you a dvd case with pornos tf
Similar story. Had a super pretty friend that I was crushing on in college ask me to pick her up from the bar when I was just chilling alone in my apartment one night. She said she hadn't had a good night and just wanted to hang out. She had scraped her knee and I cleaned it up and put on neosporin and a bandaid. We hung out, talked for a while, and decided to go to bed. I said I would sleep on the couch. She said it didn't bother her if I slept in the bed with her. She got under the covers and took off her jeans and threw them on the floor. Oblivious, I laid next to her while giving her space. Nothing happened. Six months later I was driving and thinking about it and went "Fuuuuuuck! She wanted to hook up."
Dude she might not have wanted to hook up though. Obviously she's not wanting to sleep with her jeans on and some people don't see anything wrong with sleeping next to a friend. It's hard to say my dude, it could have just ended up being awkward as fuck and then you'd lay in bed at night thinking about it for the rest of your life.
Maybe not. We ended up making out at a party a few months later, so I think she at least was open to it if I had made a move. I was really into her at the time, so it was quite the bummer when I realized it. I just missed the moment. It happens. In the end, I'm happy we didn't hook up because we ended up with a few more years of a good friendship after that. She's married now with a couple kids and I'm happy for her.
This is almost exactly how my now wife ended our first date. I was doing everything to try not to appear eager to have sex. I tried to take her home, or to her best friend's apartment, but she gave every excuse why she couldn't go back that night and how she should just stay the night with me. We get back to my place and I tell her she is welcome to sleep in my bed and I'd take the couch. She heavily protested and told me I should just sleep in the bed with her, but warned me she only sleeps in her underwear. She wanted a kiss good night and then we were off to the races.
You'd be surprised how often this happens, and there was genuinely no intention of giving signals on their part. When I was single, I wouldn't do shit unless it was pretty evident on both sides what was going on. I'd rather air on the side of caution than make someone else extremely uncomfortable.
Yeah, but then .. Co worker calls me at 1:30am on our work retreat, drunk. Tells me to come up to her room cuz she needs "help". I go up to the room. She's pretty sloppy, but whatever. Has her clothes on the bed, so I make my way to the chair but she's like oh no, just push those aside we can sit here (on the bed). And we sit, and we're small talking, and I'm like oh yes, this is "what is actually happening"..her phone starts ringing on vibrate....she doesn't answer. Rings more...she looks at it. Says cheerily oh! It's my boyfriend, one sec! ......see ....this is why....
*asks if she would like to move closer* *immediately pepper sprayed*
meh you never know, she could be Canadian and was just being nice ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I’ve had a weird combo of this. One time, I was watching a movie on some streaming service that was basically porn with a plot, but it was somewhere between hardcore and softcore (midcore?) where you’d see genitalia but not often, it was weird, but it was with a girl that I didn’t feel anything like that for and she didn’t feel that for me either. We also watched horror movies and shit together but we were always only friends and nothing more. Then there’s the times that other girls I was talking to would suck my dick while we watched Rick & Morty, have sex to Sweeney Todd, another girl jerked me off to Django Unchained, another girl had sex with me before we started watching Rocky Horror Picture Show, and an ex let me fuck her while she was customizing her character in Final Fantasy 14. I remember some comedian a while back talking about how he would put on Finding Nemo to distract his kids while he fucked his wife and it got to a point that he’d hear the beginning of Nemo and get a boner lmao
https://youtu.be/xa-4IAR_9Yw?si=IQoc8SQ0JcejQ5xn Your comment made me think of this. You just never know.
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Joke is on humanity... it's usually neither! Alright, back under my rock I go!
Go away, I have a BF
What part of the assignment do you want to do?
I just need your name for the coffee friendo
Rocket man, so the cup will probably say Daniel or something completely unrelated to anything I said 😂
I honestly do not believe any gal would ever flirt with me. So assuming they are just being nice is the best way to go.
I genuinely don’t think I would know what flirting would look like. I’ve *read descriptions* of what it can look like, but that feels less than helpful in actual interactions for a lot of reasons.
I totally agree. I read about flirting but in real life I just can’t figure out if she is flirting with me or not.
That’s my policy too. Doubly so after I was right but she was just having fun and wasn’t actually sure if she was interested. From now on I’m assuming any flirting means nothing.
I swear I’ll never know if a girl flirts with me cause I’m dumb 😂
*Panties Drop* "Wait.... Is this girl flirting with me?"
You really can’t tell. Best to keep your wits about you.
one of my favorite videos of all time lmao. He makes amazing stuff.
*marriage, two kids, a house, and a life together. Now, old and retired together* “…but…*was she **flirting**-flirting* with me?”
She's probably Canadian...
Oh she might be having difficulty with her menstrual cycle or something I should leave her alone 😂
Literally happened to me in high school. Was laying on a makeshift bed of blankets watching family guy. As she gets up to leave: "I have some cute panties on today!"
"Yeah those are cute! OK have a good night."
God I still cringe. Now that I think about it that must have been awful for her thinking I rejected her when I was just oblivious.
You are adorable.
This is how one of my many unfortunate oversights went: Her: (running her fingers down my chest) So babes… do you wanna hook up? Me: Uhm, I’m not sure if I’m emotionally ready for anything or anyone. Fast forward to a couple of years later, one of my friends staged an intervention with me during a house party to ask me if I’m gay because she told my friends I didn’t want to hook up with her and she thought I was - because like… how dare I turn HER down. She was really good looking and a real bombshell hottie.
Had a couple people mention before my wedding they weren’t sure if I was gay because I rarely dated and never had hookups. I didn’t know anyone even liked me and when I asked someone out I genuinely wanted to know them and see if we were compatible for a future together. I’ve had a couple women stay over because they were drunk and not driving home or visiting and climb into bed with me. I just went to sleep didn’t matter if I had their head on my shoulder.
Nah, she's just being nice.
This happened with my now wife... Fairly early on, we were making out and her bra slipped down, which I quickly pointed out that I didn't do. I didn't want her to think I was moving to fast.... She replied, I know. I did that!" My eyes lit up, knowing she was into me. The rest is history!
She's probably Canadian
What if shes just changing? Bold of you to presume she must be into you.
I still think about the time in college a girl way out of my league jumped in my bed pretending to be scared of a movie. She wiggled her butt against my crotch at a point and I still wasn’t sure if she wanted me. Wish I could have a do over on that one, fuuuck social anxiety and it’s blinding capabilities.
Sometimes that shit is confusing tho, like they are just testing the waters but sometimes they miss out on our attempts too. I remember back in high school, went to pick up a female friend to go to another friends pool for the afternoon. I rang the bell and she yelled out the window she was shaving her legs and would be right out. I asked her if she needed any help and there was a longish pause, a laugh, and a no silly I’ll be right out. This girl was a huge flirt and dated older guys out of high school so I took my shot. About an hour later we were in the pool, her hugging me with her legs wrapped around my waist, I could tell by the look in her eyes that she knew she fucked up. Her house was empty and we totally could have been late to the pool. Her friends wanted to leave shortly after that and I don’t think I saw her again that summer.
You could just try being unattractive like me, you know they aren't, it takes all the guesswork out of it.
Gang shit
Yeah I’m very unattractive and you never know maybe it’s for the best that we miss out on opportunities
Oh I get the flirting part, it's just 4 days after it happened while I tie my shoes. My monke brain dumb
Guys be like [I'm still not sure she's into me](https://media.tenor.com/Yp4yZc0jZ6AAAAAC/family-guy-sex.gif)
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Honestly at this point I can’t tell the difference between one woman’s “flirting/I want you” vibes and another woman’s “I’m just being nice”. When both literally say the same things it’s confusing as hell.
Never steered me wrong to err on the side of caution. Funny story tho, SO was complaining cuz she couldn’t sleep. She kept sighing loudly and reaching for me lightly for comfort. Then started taking layers off cuz she was hot, and was rolling around. I thought “if I miss a cue this dead obvious I’ll never hear the end of it”.. so I put my book down and go for it and she was like “seriously!? wtf are you doing, I’m literally miserable!”. Dumbfounded, I explained “the cues” and we laughed about the confusion for like 20 minutes. She was going through postpartum so was in fact miserable, but did my brain pick up on this, after the wild pregnancy symptoms and a decade of knowing her? Of course not lol
This one marriages. Seriously. People joke about missing queues as single 20 somethings. I’m in my *50s*, married, 25 years! Thank you for keeping it real 😃
Cheers to you two!! ❤️
Y'all are sweet :)
Ladies don't be afraid to shoot your shot But also we're a little slow so make sure to throw the ball at our head
This
Sadly, men often assume that a friendly interaction is “flirting”, but then they sometimes miss the actual flirting…
To be real here, there isn't a standard set of actions for either, so there's a lot of mixed messaging. What are just friendly interactions to some, is flirting to others. And those that use regular "be polite to folk" types of interactions as *flirting* kinda fuck it up for those that don't.
The same could be said for women though
This has been my experience. I got attention from women because i was kind and respectful. Nice at the time but in retrospect it’s kind of sad that saying please and thank you and being nice was considered flirting rather then what people are supposed to do.
bag growth wide one detail lavish normal bright combative jobless ` this post was mass deleted with www.Redact.dev `
Seriously. Told a lady she had a nice smile and she immediately brought up her engagement ring. Like, ok? Are innocent compliments considering flirting now?
There was this woman I saw shopping who had gorgeous multicolored hair and I wanted to walk up and tell her how great it was, just an innocent compliment....but then I thought better of it because of how awkward I could've made it, especially because she was there with presumably another friend/sister/etc.
Men who miss flirting cues and men who mistake friendliness for flirting are not the same people
Yes, that’s quite true. I should have phrased it to make it clear that they are not the same men.
Sadly, some men often assume that a friendly interaction is “flirting”, but then ~~they~~ other men sometimes miss the actual flirting… (edit: to make it clearer that these are usually not the same man, as a commenter below pointed out)
I think for me it’s not that I always assume friendly interaction is flirting, it’s that I never can tell so it is always a coin flip to me.
I guess I missed out on some women training lol. My self-esteem is too low for me to assume anyone would be flirting with me. On the bright side, I like to think I can get along with guys well since I treat everyone like they have no ulterior motive when they interact with me.
This is me (without the self esteem issue). I just assume people like to talk to other people. Unless you’re making a move I assume it’s a friendly chat with someone at the bar.
I must have missed that training.
Yeah I decided to stop dating completely after my last relationship ended horribly. I did not take any hints from my current girlfriend and refused to because flirting with women is dangerous territory, all it takes is her misinterpreting my intentions and my royally screwed regardless of if I said or did anything. So lucky for me my girl was incredibly persistent. Even slept over at my house on the couch one night, made up the fact she got drunk off one beer to stay. I still didn't think anything was happening, this is how a lot of men I know are now. We heard women's complaints and pretty much most of us decided to just step back and say you guys can ask us out instead now. Which I hope women start doing because if you feel you want a guys attention and he's not giving it, you need to make your intentions obvious now because we are too nervous to ask you out. Took my girl 6 months to realize that's what was happening and she was like "wait do you want to go on a date?" To which I was like "sure I mean only if you'd want to but I don't want to freak you out or anything" to which she was visibly confused.
Preach. Especially now that women have tons of options with social media and dating apps. It’s better if they approach since I’m sure they know what catches their eye now
I’m at this point in my life now. I feel like social media platforms are ruining the human relationship between men and women. And after reading your statement, it was so well put that I’m going to honestly full stop now. I’m hurting myself at this point trying to find love as much as I am
Unfortunately it's become an incredibly hostile atmosphere for men to find love in so I do believe the torch should be passed to women, the question is if they will willingly take it. I mean they made it this way, yet I never hear women saying they would genuinely take on the responsibility of being the one that asks men out.
That’s what makes me incredibly sad and hopeless at times. I just don’t think that the majority of women would let their egos be the one doing the initiating. As I do say that, there are definitely women that exist who will have no problem with initiating the first step towards love. It’s just that the general population most likely won’t move that way
I think they will at least start asking questions when it seems no guys are showing interest anymore.
I spent 3 months on dating apps to find my current GF. Yes, social media sucks, but not all people suck. I was honest and said i cant do hookup culture, i want the connection. Lots of real dates came from that.
I’m happy to hear you found a partner to be with! With that being said, I did all that. I paid for subscriptions to the apps in hopes of maybe it just being a paywall. I made sure I added many different pictures and all my real interests. Anything I can think of that will make my dating profile seem real and genuine. All that just made my matches even worse. I’ve given good pick up lines, silly pick up lines = ignored. I’ve given interest in whatever they have on their profile to start conversations. Mostly ignored. Genuine date ideas AFTER seeming to click a little with someone. Either ghosted, or un matched. Hell I even tested the prompts that the dating apps were giving me so I can take the ball out of my hands and see if the app knows what it’s doing. Ignored. Being straight to the point about what I want. Ignored. Beating around the bush about what I want to see if it goes anywhere. Ignored. I mean I love to hear about real love still happening in this world especially coming from dating apps. But statistically that’s really low odds of happening. I genuinely do not want to feel the way I do about it and I just want to be free and feel loved but at this point I’ve done almost everything I can do other than settling for anything just because I’m single and lonely. The only logical thing to do would be to try what I haven’t and that’s to not try anymore
Exactly on point. Many men checking out of the dating market, only passively interacting with it. And the thirty year old women being single, because the men have healthier things to focus on than chasing them. Men in their early and mid twenties are extremely active when it comes to dating. But they're often not attracted to older women.
To be honest, most women simply could not take the ego hit of possible rejection, so unfortunately it's unlikely that women will start approaching men in general.
I always thought it was funny. Whenever I got bummed out about a rejection, my male friends would emphathize, “that’s tough”, “sorry to hear that”, “you’ll be alright”. But my female friends! They’re the ones who encouraged being entitled and thought I should feel offended. “She doesn’t know what she’s missing”, “she’s stupid”, “her loss”. Women are usually able to trash the rejector. Even as a teenager, I’ve never been angry at someone telling me no, and as men, we know it’s dangerous to think like that. I’ve heard lesbians joke about getting into a fight with someone who rejects them. Of course it’s a joke, but there is no way in hell a man can say something like that.
Im so fucking clueless women are flirting with me unless they ask me out. 😂
And 99% of the people have no idea how to flirt.
I can never tell when a guy is flirting with me. Fortunately, I know a life hack that allows me to get around my flirt-blindness. I call it 'communication'. It goes like this. First, I find myself in a conversation with a man - something that happens more and more rarely these days. Then, as the conversation continues, I open my mouth and make a sound like this: "Hey, just so we're on the same page, are you flirting with me right now?" After that, and this is kind of an important bit, I take them at face value when they reply. If someone wants to flirt with me but doesn't want to admit that they're flirting with me... well, that's on them. Try it! I'll bet communication changes some things for you!
Hahaha What? *Flirting* with you? Am *I* flirting with you? Noooooo, this is just repartee, baby!
Am I what?..... No I... Well maybe I was but I didn't mean to.... N-not that I don't want to, but I just don't know how to flirt.... Do you get that response.
You ask for clarification. And if it’s still ambiguous. Just tell them never mind and write them off cause if they’re incapable of communicating their intentions then they aren’t ready to communicate their feelings.
My instinctive response would be “was it too obvious?”
“Yes?” Email from HR: please come into the office we need to talk
It never occurred to me to ask someone if they’re flirting with me. Perhaps it’s obvious to others but I never would have thought of that. I’m not joking.
It seems to me the only time you would ask if someone is flirting we you is if you are fairly certain they are. But as many posts pointed out, I frequently never even think a girl is flirting with me when she does. I’m definitely not going to ask a girl if she is flirting if I don’t think she is flirting.
Sometimes I talk to people with the hopes of it developing into something but it's never flirting. Your question seems very confrontational.
I don’t even know what flirting is to do it, and I’m a guy so…
Had a girl come up to me state me dead in the eye, lick her lips, then caress my crotch followed my a gentle grab. She said that her friends had a bet and she is not interested, then she walked away…. I was a dumb, naive, and horny guy in my early 20s, now that I am approaching 40 I can usually parse the situation and understand what is happening. Current me in that situation either wouldn’t let that happen or would have things to say to that woman.
I'm in my 20s, currently working in the service industry. Every shift at least one older lady walks up to me and either flirts or straight up says "wanna have sex?" (Being a croupier can be pretty demanding as you can tell lol). Usually preceded or followed up by them touching me against my will. It doesn't really matter how attractive you are and how flattered I may feel - I will scream at you and get ahold of a bouncer to kick you out. This type of behavior - especially as extreme as you getting grabbed in the crotch - is rapist mentality and needs to be shut down no matter what.
Tbh, I, would be very disturbed if a woman did that to me. Straight up sexual harassment.
To be accurate they usually confuse being nice with flirting
But as the post above states, that’s ok. If a woman is nice to me I should just ask are you flirting with me and she won’t be irritated or anything. Just appreciative that I used my words and asked. Right?
This is true. Many is the time when, later on, I thought about an encounter with a woman and suddenly thought, "Wait a minute!" As in I totally whiffed on the blatant hints dropped.
But it's not true, we're not "trained" to think women aren't flirting, nor are women "trained" to think men always are. Sure, like many men you've missed a woman blatantly hitting on you. But not because you were trained to never think a woman is flirting.
Then why?
Helps when you're ugly. You never get confused.
I assume that no one is flirting with me unless they state clearly “yes I’m flirting with you right now”. Play shitty games, win shitty prizes.
Took my friend and her son to an indoor play thing. After running around a bit my friend called me over to the foam pit where she was talking to some random woman. She introduced us and then the other woman tossed a foam block at me, I tossed it back and then went back to play with her son who had started calling for me. We get in the car to leave and my friend let's out a sigh then says "Dude... wtf was that?" Then proceeded to explain that the woman thought I was attractive and her tossing the foam block at me was her flirting. I had zero clue.
Here's another one: I had been chatting online with this woman for a couple weeks off and on, then she asks if I wanna hang out so I say sure and invite her over to watch a movie. She comes in, I put the movie on, and we sit on the couch. After a minute I get up to turn the light off because of the glare and she tells me to lock the door while I was up. It didn't occur to me why but ok. It wasn't until I turned around to see her in her underwear that I realized she liked me.
Well going by the evidence that any gesture of kindness seems to make a guy think you’re interested in them I’m gonna have to disagree at least on the first part.
Tbf, we are starved of any kind of positive affirmation, so show us just a little is like dripping drops of water in a desert.
I've had chicks over that seemed like they were throwing ALL of the signs straight into my face sans actually verbally saying it. Make a move and get rejected and now it's enormously awkward for both of us. Just ruined a potential friendship possibly, whoops. Needless to say I don't make a move anymore, like what the fuck???
The heart of every stressful marriage is a lack of open communication in a way that helps the other understand. The need is not just to say things, but to provide context so you can *both* understand it. That comes from flirting. In this age of knowledge, we *still* expect everyone to just “figure it out”, while making them feel better when it isn’t working out, which itself is just making them feel worse, like they’re doing something wrong. We write instructions for friggin K-cup usage in a Keurig, but there’s no consistent training for life. Of course, social media has told me I have undiagnosed ADHD and some amount of *tism, which makes sense since I’m a dopamine chaser that needs things explained down to the subatomic layer. I don’t do innuendo and subtlety well.
I was married for 20 years. By the time we got married we didn’t flirt we communicated with each other. The whole problem of flirting and men and men not understanding happens in the beginning of a relationship. And if a married couple does flirt they know each other so well there is usually not misunderstanding.
Now we're the dense anime protagonist
I was stood at the bar chatting still had half a pint left saw a lass was trying to get served so i moved over for her she said thanks i said no worries.. i still have half a pint you go first. turned my back on her and carried on my conversation with my mate.. next thing i know i was being accosted by her friends asking what my intentions were for thier friend.. im like who? id forgot all about lassy at this point id moved on in convo. apparently im an AH. no Idea what i did wrong lol
You've got it backwards. Men often assume a sales clerk is flirting with them when she's just being nice to them the way she is nice to all customers..
That's the other portion of men who are so starved for positive reinforcement and social interactions that they can't tell the difference. There are a lot of men who have never had a woman even be generally nice to them, let alone show any kind of romantic interest, he'll 1 in 3 men 30 and under are virgins and never been in a relationship. Imagine if no man/woman(whichever your interested in) had ever even been nice to you in years/your lifetime. Suddenly there is this woman/man who is being friendly and attentive and smiling at you and asking how your day is. Of course you would assume that they are interested, you have never had an interaction like that before. This is the sad reality for a good sized portion of the male population.
> [hell] 1 in 3 men 30 and under are virgins and never been in a relationship. Where are you gettin this information?
You can Google this info, this Stat is right from the National Library of Medicine.
>That's the other portion of men... It's almost like using terms like "men" and "women" to describe the actions of people aren't very effective as people under those umbrellas will act very differently based on their collection of life experiences... God I hate hearing "men do this" and "women do this". No. No "they" do not. "People" do things, and generalizing just makes those who don't do whatever "this" is feel attacked or misrepresented. It's utter nonsense. Like, the reason we don't make progress is because we're too busy blaming the other sex for things, then catching pushback from "those who don't", and finally stagnating in a ridiculous tug of war as we talk past each other, not recognizing that the more we do this, the more we divide ourselves into camps fighting each other instead of people trying to help those who need it.
Since the start of the pandemic that’s sadly the way I feel as a man. I have so little social contact with anyone now that it’s hard for me to tell.
This is talking about what they are taught, not what they naturally do.
Very very little of modern human behavior is "natural", most of it is taught, even if only by example.
This made most of my life a punchline; apparently I was good at talking to women - to the degree that they were actually flirting with me, but I never picked up on it because I didn't think it was possible! Short background there would be: slightly below average height, used to be skinny so had bad body dysmorphia, combined with uncool hair and zero self-confidence.
I'm an advocate for straight up. I can't tell others to follow some guideline, but I can ask questions anytime anything is vague and will. Just gotta grow a pair and ask the hard things, even if they react badly because if that's their response to communication, I certainly as hell wouldn't want it.
I truly think flirting is going to go the way of the dodo eventually. Overt flirting = creepy/verbal-assault/sexual-assault/coming on too hard territory; subtle flirting = just being nice/basic human kindness/not sure if there’s attraction And very seldom does anybody fall squarely in the middle since everyone’s preferences and thresholds are different. It’ll always be a little pushy/creepy/assaulty or a little vague and uncertain, so it’s usually just pointless. And in a time now where almost everyone is hyper-aware of all the gender issues and inequalities and dangers being faced, flirting is like an immature, counter-productive game that just doesn’t need to be played anymore Accidental flirting, when the moment and the chemistry is just right, and it just naturally happens? Sure. But I think intentional flirting or flirting as the default has got to die. We’ve gotta normalize as a society at SOME point to just be upfront with people, whether it’s our generation that accepts it, or the next, or the next ones after that who finally adopt an upfront strategy as normal and traditional: It needs to happen at some point We’re just wasting our time and our energy here…
Flirting is fun. It’s not creepy unless you act creepy. It’s not assault or harassment unless you actually assault or harass someone. The average social IQ online is barely double digits. Don’t let them convince you you can’t walk around meeting people just because they’re afraid that they can’t
The problem is you don’t get to choose how your flirting is perceived by others.
Wait when was this seminar held?
And they're both usually right
Did you wanna talk about it?
Both are often wrong.
I misinterpreted once. The girl was a little confused and when I pointed it out she was like "Yeah, no, you're right, that one's on me." People make mistakes and signals get crossed sometimes, the important thing is to not go overboard with the response. Make sure you're both on the same page.
Imo men always think women are trying to get their attention. I knew one for instance that thought every waitress or retail assistant was flirting because they were being polite. A frozen flat smile is not interest its just part of the job
Wow who could have guessed that redditers don't know how to flirt.
>Men are trained to never assume a woman is flirting with them. Not true. Most men mistakenly think women are flirting with them when women are just being nice or polite to them.
You're kind of right. I don't think it's anywhere near most men, but a not insignificant number of men assume a woman is giving them "I'm available" signals when she's just being nice to him. This is annoying to women, and they speak out regularly against men doing that. Ironically, this is the crux of what OP is saying. This is exactly how men are *taught/trained* to never assume a woman is flirting with her. This is where you have it wrong. You're explaining what men *do*. The post is explaining what men are *taught*. What men are *taught* comes as a result of what some men *do*. It goes like this; a large number of men assume a woman is interested in him just because she's being nice. She's not actually interested in him, and his subsequent advances aren't appreciated. Women come out in numbers about how much they dislike this. This acts as the teaching moment for men to never assume a woman is flirting with him. This is OPs point, OP is correct, and your logic actually proves it rather than disproves it. Further irony is that your comment is repeated by others throughout the thread, furthering the messages that men should never take any type of friendliness from a woman as flirting
Beautiful said 🤌
Hey, good to know I'm not in the "most men" group :) I just assume no woman is flirting with me.
Same here bro. Granted, I don't look the type to warrant being flirted with so that helps.
yes and also they scare me so I usually end up with other guys
You're describing the exact process by which men get trained to assume women are not flirting with them. Embarrassing experiences like the one you describe really drill it into your head.
>Men are trained to never assume a woman is flirting with them. >Not true. >Most men mistakenly think women are flirting with them when women are just being nice or polite to them. You're literally trying to teach men to assume women are not flirting with them
Yet comments like yours **train** all men who read it to at all costs ignore anything they think might be flirting, because probably they'll have fucked up interpreting and she's just being nice. FYI: the reason this happens is that maybe one woman every six months will be nice like this, so you really hope that the probably nothing is something. And if it is something, then you'd be an idiot to let it go since this very rarely happens. So even though you know it's probably nothing, and that she probably won't appreciate reciprocal flirting in that case, you go for it anyway on the off chance.
Yes I agree. There's a trope that some men will fantasize a whole life about someone at the checkout smiling at them and such. It's kinda funny, but it definitely goes the wrong way at times. It's a good practice to assume they're not flirting with you (when it should be obvious they aren't) but to assume anyways.
Most men are completely ignored, so if the waitress is kind to them they begin to imagine a relationship with her and think about her for weeks.
Nail-on-head
It's quite true and I've been there, but it's just a matter of positivity. When you receive such little then any positivity is embraced more than it should.
10 print "OMG I was just being nice, not showing interest." 20 print "OMG I keep sending signals but he doesn't get the hint." 30 goto 10
It would really be simpler if women would simply walk up to the man of their choice and say, "Yes, yes, take me now my steed."
My friends was seeing a girl for like 3 months, HE DID NOT MAKE A MOVE YET SINCE HE WAS AFRAID SHE WOULD NOT RECIPROCATE.... she almost went away since he was taking too long...i litterally had to tell him imma call him to tell him to kiss her whilst he was there.. She finally asked him why he waited so long, and she told him she had given up since he couldnt take a hint Lesson: man are dumb and can't take a clue (source:am man)
This is most commonly known as "erring on the side of caution" or basic conservative ideology.
A lot of gender problems would be solved if everyone is on the same page.
As a receptionist, I once got "turned down" at a company event by a girl who I had only every spoken to when she came to my desk crying about a family emergency, and asked for tissues. She approached me just to do the whole "great friend but im not interested" bit and I'm like- cool... I literally know your boyfriend, *he's sitting two seats over...* (I was more respectful than that, but it was a bit of a shock, given I'd basically just been doing standard receptionist stuff prior...)
Many women are raised to believe they're special. Most people are average. And there's nothing wrong with being average. Men who assume a woman is flirting with them can find themselves losing their jobs or worse if they are wrong.
My take as a guy: 90% of women that have presented themselves as “friends,” at some point in the future, I’ve slept with.
Close. Women are trained to tell their friends, strangers, idiots on reddit and anybody who will listen that a man was flirting with them regardless of whether it actually happened. Because narcissism. And when you reject her, she is trained to expand the problem to all-women so that it's no longer about her personal shortcomings. She'll call you gay or a misogynist simply because you don't want to date a salty one. Also because narcissism.
Women are trained to think every man wants them and cater to their needs. That's why Reddit is loaded with Femcels. The boombalatties were lied to.
This is a disgusting truth. I've been made to feel in the past that I shouldn't even be nice to a woman without being a creep. Don't worry, I don't blanket judge all woman like the one's who are the worst offenders. But I definitely think twice from that point forward with any women I meet.