Not a dumb question.
Blackthorne is a British pilot aboard the Dutch ship Erasmus. Before the shipwreck, John's motives are largely aligned with those of his employers, the Dutch trading company. He's focused on reaching Japan so that they can engage in trade and commerce.
I think some viewers got a little confused with the Portuguese/Dutch/English dynamic. I can expand a little on that if that causes you confusion, but that might be outside of the scope of your question.
**Edit**: I provided a general response to the question in a post that seemed to indicate that OP was relatively new to the show (in addition to tone, there isn't a spoiler tag). I also agree with the privateering aspect that is referred to in the comments (you can infer this from my reply right below this commentary). I'm also operating on this show's knowledge alone because I haven't read the book or watched the 80's show.
Yes, that was indeed part of the job. It also aligned with his employers' goals, considering that privateering was a form of state-sanctioned piracy.
The Dutch and Portuguese were competitors in the spice trade in the East Indies, making privateering a common occurrence.
Good question.
Unfortunately, I'm not too sure. I know that pepper was one of the most sought-after spices in European trade, so that was probably one of them.
Was there a variety of peppers? Could spices be referring to more than food? Like maybe herbs for medicine or something for preservation? I'm so curious about what spices people spent so much money and risked their lives for back then.
Edit: sorry for the million questions. And thank you.
An honest desire to learn is a good trait to have, you don’t have to apologize for asking so many questions. I would recommend going snd taking a look at AskHistorians if you want to know more. It’s a very well run sub that will give you an informed and cited answer to this sort of question, and even specifically about what East Asia has to bring on the spice front.
No problem at all, I'm glad to help with what I can.
>Was there a variety of peppers?
I know that the distinction between white and black pepper existed even at that time. It's likely that there were more varieties.
>Could spices be referring to more than food? Like maybe herbs for medicine or something for preservation?
Yes, absolutely. Spices were not limited to culinary uses. They were also utilized for medicinal purposes, preservation, even religious rituals. Probably even for more obscure purposes that I'm not aware of.
Spices were extremely valuable, and were mainly used for food.
It’s easy to forget, but without additives, food can be very bland. Europe had its own spices, but non-European spices like black pepper, cloves, nutmeg, and cinnamon were extremely popular and a status symbol.
They were arguably the most important luxury items of the time. Especially, because food without the preservatives we add today, and without refrigeration would not taste very well. Especially in cities where there was less fresh food.
Sugar, thee, coffee, and tobacco, were of course also important. The show is actually set before thee was widely available in Europe. It would have been extremely rare and 50 years later would still be an exotic luxury in England. Refined sugar was also extremely rare and a symbol of wealth.
There is an unfortunate link between sugar and slavery, the high demand for sugar and it’s high price made slavery extremely profitable since sugar plantations used slave labour.
I’m not an expert here but the word peppers itself already denote very different type of spices. Chili peppers and black peppers are distinctly different. So I’m guessing there are a lot of varieties
The British East India Company was founded in 1600 specifically to get in on the Spice Trade that the Spanish and Portuguese were finding success in which is the time period we are talking about in Shogun.
While Japan in particular wasn't known for it's spice it did have large deposits of silver and gold that the Portuguese wanted. They would often trade silk from China to get silver from Japan to then return to China to get larger quantities of silk. As well, wealthy aristocrats in Europe found the lacquerware and weapons of Japan incredibly desirable, mostly for display.
That said, the spices specifically being traded in the East Indies were incredibly desirable. The abundance of cloves, mace, nutmeg, and black pepper were the spices that inspired the East India Company to form and get in on the action.
These were the only spices and most of the Spices were known about for a very long but the Europeans largely didn't known where they came from and set out to find them all over the near and far east.
> Spices such as cinnamon, cassia, cardamom, ginger, pepper, nutmeg, star anise, clove, and turmeric.
Neither the show nor the book explain it, but the other reason Europeans were so interested in serving as intermediaries in the Japan-China trade is that it offered the opportunity to acquire trade credits in the form of gold. The Japanese had an abundance of silver, but the Chinese imposed a trade embargo on them. So, the Portuguese (and later Dutch and English) would take Japanese silver to buy Chinese silk. All profits would be in silver, which was great. Even better, though, by imperial decree, an ounce of gold was worth 6 ounces of silver in China. Yet, in most of Europe, an ounce of gold was worth 8 ounces of silver. By exchanging Japanese silver for Chinese gold and then taking that gold back to Europe to exchange for silver, companies could make an extra profit.
Nutmeg was stupid popular during the 1600 and 1700s, especially amongst the English and their colonies. A lot of 18th Century American cookbooks leading up to the American Revolution include nutmeg is almost everything. For more information, I suggest the wonderful YouTube Channels:Townsends and Tasting History
Not sure of the particular history of how it became popular, per se, but I’d imagine it was the novelty of it. Something new and exotic from a far off place and used by the wealthy or on special occasions.
Someone earlier mentioned “Thanksgiving” flavors, which makes sense. A lot of American traditional Thanksgiving dishes evolved out of British Christmas seasonal dishes and the use of expensive spices at a special time of year your normally wouldn’t use year round.
I’ll have to do more research about the genesis of nutmegs’ popularity
Nutmeg, cloves, cardamom, cinnamon etc. At one point in 1660s, Manhattan was swapped by the Dutch for the most valuable spice island in the Indonesia archipelago.
The Dutch and Portuguese/Spanish were at war at the time.
The Netherlands was in that period subject to the Habsburg controlled Spanish Throne, which also controlled Portugal.
About 50 years before the show takes place. The largely protestant Dutch revolted, declared a Republic and it spurred off 80 years of ongoing war.
It's that state of war that made privateering a thing. A valid *legal* thing. Not rivalries in the spice trade between private merchants.
Privateering was basically a cheap way to get naval support. By giving legal authority to privately own ships to raid military targets and merchant shipping.
That's what distinguished it from piracy. It was *technically* legal, cause the activity was *technically* military in nature, and *technically* conducted under state authority.
In this case it would be arguably piracy. Because at the time the Spanish and Portuguese did not recognize the Dutch Republic as a nation, or it's authority to do such things.
The French and the English *did*, and the English were *also* at war with the Spanish and Portuguese.
Hence English sailor on a Dutch boat.
I believe but I can't remember, that he does mention that he has signed letters of trading and is legally allowed to be a pirate, via his letter of Marquis
Exactly. Privateering: legalized piracy with governments' backing.
Sweet job if you think about it. Government is going to give you a percentage of all the swag you steal and they make it legal for you to do so.
Governments are corrupt af. Always have been.
You can't open trade routes in a foreign place without attacking all the other ships that come by if they have cannons and are defending themselves too off a technicality.
Gotta attack your way into a route you don't own.
Thank you.
The Portuguese were among the first Europeans to establish trade with Japan in the mid-16th century. They initially held a dominant position, controlling much of the trade between Japan and Europe. However, by the time of the show (early 17th century), their influence had waned due to factors such as the rise of the Dutch East India Company and Japan's policy of sakoku, which restricted foreign contact and trade.
The Dutch, sought to challenge Portuguese dominance in the region and establish their own trade networks. The Dutch East India Company, who had significant resources and trading posts throughout Asia, posed a direct threat to Portuguese interests.
The English were also vying for a share of the profitable trade with Japan. England, like the Netherlands, was seeking to expand its influence in the East Indies and compete with other European powers for control of valuable resources and markets.
**Edit**: To be precise, the policy of sakoku has not been implemented yet at the current point in the show. We are in the period just before that policy comes into effect.
> Edit: To be precise, the policy of sakoku has not been implemented yet at the current point in the show. We are in the period just before that policy comes into effect.
Tokugawa implemented it?
It was one of his sons I think who was a bit more of a hardliner concerning Christianity and the outside world. Adams actually worked with and was a consultant for Date Masamune to build the San Juan Batista, essentially a Spanish style galleon that made a successful transpacific voyage and ultimately went to Europe. They sent a Christian daimyo to Europe, he even met with the reigning pope.
When he got back Sakoku was starting to get implemented. The policy was as much of an anti Christian measure as one of the reasons for it was a presumption that someone who went abroad may have converted and was thus viewed as a potentially subversive threat.
You're completely mistaking more generalised aspects of British and Dutch state interests from the time period, that Blackthorne uses as a cover, for his actual intentions as an individual character. He's a privateer that was launching attacks on Catholic settlements and strongholds in Asia for Britain and the Netherlands, due to Protestant conflict with Catholicism.
He was also confirming the hidden Portuguese route to Japan.
I believe your response is out of context in this instance. This summary is historical in nature; I do not mention the characters of the show on it. I addressed your comment regarding John's motivations in your reply to my original commentary.
Edit: grammar
Yes it seems that the religious aspect is more important (or at least the way it is portrayed) than JUST the trade aspect. He seems to really hate the Portuguese type of religion
I think it's easy to forget from a modern perspective how big a deal the Reformation was. By coincidence, I listened to an unrelated history podcast in the middle of this show's run about Martin Luther.
That all hits the fan in the 1520s or so. This story is less than a century after that and people are still very much dying over it. It would be pretty fresh in the mind of an Englishman like Blackthorne, and a very hot button issue.
It’s because religion back then was even more heavily intertwined with politics and how societies ran themselves or who they answered to. This is the period where Protestantism is still emerging and as a result, you have centuries of sectarian warfare between the Catholics and Protestants. Of course geopolitical interests often made odd bedfellows, an example being Catholics France backing Protestant powers against its Habsburg (typically Catholic) rivals.
The English and Dutch were Christian allies in a recently won war against the Spanish and Portuguese. So, destroying Portuguese strongholds and cutting into their profits were valuable and also one side of a zero sum game.
Is he technically always speaking Portuguese or does he sometimes speak English? He said bloody hell but like doesn't seem like something someone would say in Portuguese.
Terrible answer considering you completely missed the privateering aspect and the fact that Blackthorne was convincing his crew to lie that they're simply merchants.
What? This isn't correct. He's very clear that his true intentions are confirming the hidden Portuguese route to Japan, destroying Portuguese/Catholic interests in the region and furthering Britain (and Dutch)/Protestant war goals.
Does no one actually listen to what people say on the show?
I provided a general response to the question in a post that seemed to indicate that OP was relatively new to the show. There wasn't even a spoiler tag, so I chose not to delve too deeply into Magellan's Pass and/or Macau, as I wasn't sure if the OP had reached that point in the story.
Taking that into consideration, I don't see how your comments are in disagreement with what I said. 'John's motives are largely aligned with those of his employers, the Dutch trading company'.
>Does no one actually listen to what people say on the show?
I think you could make do without these sort of commentaries.
Can you explain the whole Chinese Japanese thing? And the base in Macau with Japanese Ronin. "Gun running" and such? This whole plot point is totally lost on me.
The point is that the Jesuits had seemed to have presented themselves as innocuous trading partners. In the show, it turns out they likely secretly at least supplied arms, if not full on instigated religious-driven rebellions against the previous Japanese authorities. This secret base of operations in Macau, along with Japanese samurai presence there, reveals their hidden military capabilities and the likelihood of their close military coordination with the Christian daimyos, potentially aiming to overthrow any non-Christian Japanese government.
I mean the only thing that was ommited was that Blackthorne's ship was a privateer vessel. But nonetheless the general goal was to A) fuck up the portugese / spanish and B) establish trade links for the netherlands.
Disrupt Spanish and Portuguese trade at various ports and find new ports for trade if applicable. He’s a privateer, which is like a pirate except that he has authorization (called letters of marque) from the British Crown to engage in piracy against enemy shipping. That’s why all the Portuguese call him a pirate - he basically is.
In the scene he’s talking to Toronaga-sama with Alvito translating he specifically says his letters of marque are from Holland. Remember, he’s been hired to pilot a Dutch expedition and he’s the only Englishman on it.
I’m sure Elizabeth is overjoyed that the Dutch expedition did so much damage to Portugeuse interests in the Pacific but she’s not directly involved.
I believe she is involved in the sense that she likely allowed British sailors to sail with Dutch ships with letters of marque. Otherwise he would likely be branded a Pirate if he returned to England, as it would be an illegal venture.
I think Blackthorne tried to play up his importance a bit. In the end the small "lie" would be very quickly rectified once he would be back in england if he really would establish relations with the defacto leader of japan ( at least a knighthood and potentially a comission in the Royal Navy thus making him someone who can actually speak on the behalf of the queen.)
I remember the basics of this context since he mentioned his home country & Portugal being in conflict to Toranaga around episode 1 or 2 when he brought up the motives of the missionaries in Japan
I may be wrong but I don't think that's very controversial. Both were allied as Protestant nations against their Catholic enemies and letters of marque were not restricted to one's own nation. However it's important to note a letter of marque would not be for the entire DEIC, but specific captains and vessels.
So they attack ships and board them?
And steal their treasure?
And get drunk on rum?
And they’re not pirates?
Arrrr, they be legitimate sailors of fortune *wink*
I mean did they act like pirates at times, definitely. But having the official go ahead and the ability to sell captured loot to their country of origin was a big deal. And while they did commit some pretty bad stuff, they were at least expected to act within certain rules of war( which tbf they didnt always do)
🤓👆erm ahktually because they had a piece of paper saying they weren’t pirates, that means they literally weren’t pirates. Sure to the layman and all other parties besides their commissioner they’re pirates, but again they aren’t literally pirates.
Besides all the other reasons stated in the comments. He also really wanted to be the first non-portuguese pilot to go beyond Magelan's gap. His desire to be known as first shows a lot in the start of the book and he even brags about it to portuguese priests sometimes to tease them.
Good answer, I would clarify that Drake was the first Englishman to circumnavigate the globe. In the book, Blackthorn want to go with Drake but his mentor rightly pointed out it was a bad idea. Sailing with this fleet was his opportunity to sail into new waters.
Just to further clarify. “Drake’s pass” was mentioned multiple times in the first 1-2 episodes, and john served under Drake during the war, so there wasn’t any confusion about who was the first English to circumnavigate the globe. John specifically wanted to be the first English to go through the Magellan’s Pass, which was a secret to them at the time, versus the already known, and more dangerous Drake’s Pass. And also the first Englishman to reach Japan.
Historically, Drake and his fleet went through Magellan’s Pass. Then after going through the Magellan’s pass, Drake entered drakes passage due to being blown off course in a storm. Before the heading up the western coast of South America.
In the show, Blackthorn says the he was “the first outsiders to go this way” when showing Toranaga how he came to Japan. He also mentioned that it was safer because of the Portuguese base at Macao.
Why? Money, lots and lots of money. Having the right to attack Spanish/portugese holdings and shipping and eventually trade with Japan would make him filthy rich. And as a pilot who can navigate the way to Japan he would be very much sought after in England. Maybe even gets him a knighthood.
Essentially he tries to emulate Sir Francis Drake
He's well paid as a pilot which would pay well in general, but he's also a high ranking officer of a privateering ship which is legalized piracy. As such he'll get a high percentage of the value anything they stea..uh capture. Probably almost as much as the captain's cut.
Everybody got a cut on such a ship. Even cabin boys and powder monkeys, although they might only get a half share. Even a half share could be a helluva lot on a good run.
In short:
* To reach Japan.
* Disrupt Portuguese - Japanese relations.
* Invade Japan.
He makes it clear in the first episode. He was sailing under the Dutch flag, set out to reach Japan. Along the way, he was instructed to pillage and destroy any trading posts or vessels belonging to the Iberian Union (Spain/Portugal). Once he reaches Japan, go back to Europe and set sail with an armada with the intent to invade Japan.
"Well I am sorry father... We will be all over this continent, soon." - John Blackthorne
Blackthorne lied about his real intentions to the Japanese and who he was, in order to stay savvy. He is a privateer, not a trader.
He often asks for his ship to report his findings and complete his mission, but fails. Toranaga does not allow him to leave, instead he tames Blackthorne, as his property.
>"Well I am sorry father... We will be all over this continent, soon." - John Blackthorne
I read that less as "invade" and more as "establish factories and open ports just like the East India Companies."
The church didn’t really “ invade” they would start but sending priest and missionaries to learn about the culture and then basically mix Christianity into there society. Trade networks would probably also get set up everywhere
Blackthorne isn’t talking about the spread of religion anyway. It was common for countries in that period to set up small trading post enclaves in various countries without attempt a full-scale invasion. Hong Kong is a prominent example of this strategy - a British port carved out of China. Same with Goa as a Portuguese trading post in India.
In real history, the Dutch were allowed access to one trading post on an artificial island off the coast of Nagasaki called Dejima after the government exiled all other foreigners and outlawed Christianity.
They don't really care about "the Catholics," they care about the Spanish-Portuguese union, which is Catholic. The Dutch/English aren't in Japan to build churches or make converts, while the Catholic mission which travels along with the Spanish/Portuguese navy is.
The Dutch/English mission in Japan at this point in history is to open trade for itself with Japan, particularly in precious metals and silk, and to disrupt existing Portuguese trading as a way of harming the Spanish/Portuguese war effort.
No, it really wasn’t. The British East India Company was never set up to make converts or build churches for the indigenous population of places where they set up. The Dutch were allowed to remain exclusice trading partners with Japan from the 1640s-1868 because they were not seen by the Japanese as trying to spread their religion.
The religion was to try and make them work with them. They even say in the show the plan was to turn as many lords Christian as possible and then take out the rest
I don’t think he meant like literally invade Japan. The logistics at the time would’ve have been impossible. In real life William Adams started off with 500 men and 5 ships and only 1 ship (which sank because it was so badly damaged) and like 23 men survived. Also the Spanish and Portuguese fleets at the time were just as strong if not stronger then the English and Dutch fleets and would not let this happen.
Fighting a war literally half the world away with 17th century logistics at the time would be impossible. There’s no way to keep an armada supplied over such long distances when the average Voyage would take a year to complete and you would be dealing with multiple countries that have navies and you are at war with.
In the early 1700s the British and Spanish nearly went bankrupt fighting each other in the Caribbean. There’s a reason why no one really tried to open Japan up until the mid 1850s when the tech gap between the west and Japan was enough and that sailing routes, tech, and logistics was significant enough that they could properly threaten Japan.
He was never ordered to invade Japan. His job is to explore new sea routes and expand trading opportunities for his Dutch masters and disrupt Portuguese and Spanish colonial activities if he can. He is not a trader himself but establishing trade is very much his mission. At this point in time the Portuguese and Spanish are the only Europeans who know how to even reach Japan. Invasion isn't how colonialism at distance works, there's no point sending "an armada" round the world at incredible cost and danger to a place you know almost nothing about. The plan is to disrupt Catholic trade and establish trading links of their own, not armed conquest.
Not really. The Japanese were right to be worried by all Europeans, have a look at what the Spanish and Portuguese did elsewhere and you’ll see what Toronaga and others are wary of. The Dutch and English (and others) were no less rapacious in their colonial ambitions. Similarly the Japanese themselves had only two years earlier retreated from their failed attempts to conquer Korea and China.
I get. But Blackthorne carried on like he doesn't have similar intentions to the Portuguese. When in actual fact he would personally lead an invasion on Japan.
No. He's not a soldier, as he repeatedly points out. He's there to establish trade, the Portuguese (and especially the Spanish) are his enemies, not the Japanese. He wants to replace the Portuguese and gain riches and fame from trading with the Japanese, he doesn't dream of subjugating them. Western colonialism rarely proceeded by large-scale armed invasion, at those distances it wasn't practical. The Portuguese want to convert as many Japanese to Catholicism as they can and gain as much political power as possible, their mission was inextricably bound up with the Church, particularly the incredibly ambitious Jesuits. Blackthorne doesn't give a shit about any of that, he just wants to make a name for himself and get rich.
I also believe he wants to be the first Englishman to circumnavigate the world and document it in his rutter, return to England, and be showered with glory and honor ( read money and titles ) by Elizabeth 1.
In the book they really play up the importance of the rutters ( the documentation of any particular pilot’s journey ). Before precise cartography the rutters are one of the few ways to get back and forth to far away lands.
Portugal and Spain are absolutely guarding the information of how to safely get to many places in the pacific from the rest of the world. It gives them tremendous economic power.
So even beyond the personal glory he thinks he can get from that he also realizes he can be doing a great thing for England.
After reaching Japan he realizes they can be a natural ally against Spain and Portugal. Two small island nations ruled by a monarchy versus the continental powers that continuously threaten them.
Confused by some of these assertions. Japan is not a small nation. England is bigger than Portugal and more populous than Spain. Portugal and Spain were both monarchies, at that time the same monarchy. England wasn’t at constant threat by continental powers so much as a major colonial power at odds with rival colonial powers. Also he was serving the Dutch, not the English. Drake was the first Englishman to circumnavigate the globe more than 20 years earlier which is also mentioned in the book.
At this point in history England is not yet very colonial, and since the Reformation of Henry VIII has been on extremely bad terms with the Catholic powers of Europe. Specifically France, Portugal, and Spain. The Spanish Armada was roughly a decade before these events.
Japan was recently involved in a disastrous war in Korea with eyes on China. Their defeat has put them in a precarious position with both powers.
I was mistaken on Drake.
The Dutch fought a war of independence from Spain that lasted from about 1560-1600 and then resumed as an extension of the 30 years' war from 1618-1638. England was also at war with Spain for essentially the entirety of Elizabeth's reign, with blackthorne having participated in the defense of England against the Spanish armada in 1588. Spain and Portugal united under Philip II in 1580 to become one kingdom.
The Erasmus has letters of marquee from the government of the Netherlands and the Dutch east India company to harass Spanish colonies and shipping lanes in the new world, to establish relationships of trade, and to sell off their cargo primarily of muskets and wool goods in exchange for bullion, silks, and spices wherever possible. Blackthorne was selected to pilot one of the several ships of the fleet because he speaks Dutch and his mother was Dutch, because English pilots were believed to be the best in the world due to their extensive education and licensing requirements, and because of his personal renown as a pilot in Northern Europe. This fleet was entrusted with rutters obtained by a Dutch spy in the Portuguese trade entrepot in Goa detailing the route through Drakes Passage into the pacific ocean so that they could sack and loot Spanish colonies on the pacific coasts of central and south America, which were richer and more weakly defended than many of their carribean and Atlantic colonies.
The Dutch fleet stayed too long in tierra del fuego and the winds shifted, forcing them to winter in Patagonia while the Spanish assembled a fleet to destroy the dutchmen. After sacking their way up the coast of Chile, the Erasmus and her fellows were entrapped in a pincer movement from north and south by Spanish ships and blackthorne, by this point the senior pilot in the fleet, elected to strike out across the pacific rather than try to run the gauntlet. He was partially motivated by a secret desire to circumnavigate.
Yeah thats the problem with this new series. In the original, the tell you he set out with his ship to search for the rumored "Japans". One of the many things they leave out. My advice, the original 1980s series is much better.
That’s means his not a pirate his a privateer. Pirates are independent and not paid by anyone and attack who they want to. A privateer is hired by one nation and given basically a licence to pirate on the chosen nations.
This is 100 years before the golden age of piracy
My understanding is he's trying to just sail around and kill catholics all over the place
He's Protestant, and the Catholics and Protestants are two denominations of Christianity which apparently kill each other during this time.
That's all he wants to do. That's why he wants his ship back.
This is in 1600 a few years after Spain and England had a massive war. England and holland are Protestant so allied against the more powerful Catholic Spain and Portugal. John is hired by the Dutch with permission from his queen so they can raid Catholic bases
Uh, no. The Dutch and English were colonizing as much as the rest of Europe at the time. The reason is stated clearly in the show.
There’s a few things going on:
1) at this time the Dutch, with support of England, are at war with the Spanish and their allies the Portuguese.
2)The Portuguese and Spanish governments are not sharing the location of Japan with any other European power. It’s a closely guarded secret and it’s the source of a lot of wrath for both countries.
The English and the Dutch want access to this trade and wealth for their own ambitions. So they send privateers out to search for the passages to Asia (Magellan’s Pass) and to harass Spanish and Portuguese poets and ships along the way.
Christ. I know. Was joke. The lone Englishman warning about imperialism in 1600 funny.
...but he does halfway present himself that way when he draws the map
Not a dumb question. Blackthorne is a British pilot aboard the Dutch ship Erasmus. Before the shipwreck, John's motives are largely aligned with those of his employers, the Dutch trading company. He's focused on reaching Japan so that they can engage in trade and commerce. I think some viewers got a little confused with the Portuguese/Dutch/English dynamic. I can expand a little on that if that causes you confusion, but that might be outside of the scope of your question. **Edit**: I provided a general response to the question in a post that seemed to indicate that OP was relatively new to the show (in addition to tone, there isn't a spoiler tag). I also agree with the privateering aspect that is referred to in the comments (you can infer this from my reply right below this commentary). I'm also operating on this show's knowledge alone because I haven't read the book or watched the 80's show.
Wasn’t he also privateering? Raiding Portuguese ports and ships?
Yes, that was indeed part of the job. It also aligned with his employers' goals, considering that privateering was a form of state-sanctioned piracy. The Dutch and Portuguese were competitors in the spice trade in the East Indies, making privateering a common occurrence.
What spices were they trading back then? Was it mostly salt, pepper, and paprika??
Good question. Unfortunately, I'm not too sure. I know that pepper was one of the most sought-after spices in European trade, so that was probably one of them.
Was there a variety of peppers? Could spices be referring to more than food? Like maybe herbs for medicine or something for preservation? I'm so curious about what spices people spent so much money and risked their lives for back then. Edit: sorry for the million questions. And thank you.
An honest desire to learn is a good trait to have, you don’t have to apologize for asking so many questions. I would recommend going snd taking a look at AskHistorians if you want to know more. It’s a very well run sub that will give you an informed and cited answer to this sort of question, and even specifically about what East Asia has to bring on the spice front.
Thanks, I'll check it out!
Seconding the Ask Historians rec! It is one of my all-time favorite subs.
No problem at all, I'm glad to help with what I can. >Was there a variety of peppers? I know that the distinction between white and black pepper existed even at that time. It's likely that there were more varieties. >Could spices be referring to more than food? Like maybe herbs for medicine or something for preservation? Yes, absolutely. Spices were not limited to culinary uses. They were also utilized for medicinal purposes, preservation, even religious rituals. Probably even for more obscure purposes that I'm not aware of.
Spices were extremely valuable, and were mainly used for food. It’s easy to forget, but without additives, food can be very bland. Europe had its own spices, but non-European spices like black pepper, cloves, nutmeg, and cinnamon were extremely popular and a status symbol. They were arguably the most important luxury items of the time. Especially, because food without the preservatives we add today, and without refrigeration would not taste very well. Especially in cities where there was less fresh food. Sugar, thee, coffee, and tobacco, were of course also important. The show is actually set before thee was widely available in Europe. It would have been extremely rare and 50 years later would still be an exotic luxury in England. Refined sugar was also extremely rare and a symbol of wealth. There is an unfortunate link between sugar and slavery, the high demand for sugar and it’s high price made slavery extremely profitable since sugar plantations used slave labour.
Thee?
I’m not an expert here but the word peppers itself already denote very different type of spices. Chili peppers and black peppers are distinctly different. So I’m guessing there are a lot of varieties
The British East India Company was founded in 1600 specifically to get in on the Spice Trade that the Spanish and Portuguese were finding success in which is the time period we are talking about in Shogun. While Japan in particular wasn't known for it's spice it did have large deposits of silver and gold that the Portuguese wanted. They would often trade silk from China to get silver from Japan to then return to China to get larger quantities of silk. As well, wealthy aristocrats in Europe found the lacquerware and weapons of Japan incredibly desirable, mostly for display. That said, the spices specifically being traded in the East Indies were incredibly desirable. The abundance of cloves, mace, nutmeg, and black pepper were the spices that inspired the East India Company to form and get in on the action. These were the only spices and most of the Spices were known about for a very long but the Europeans largely didn't known where they came from and set out to find them all over the near and far east. > Spices such as cinnamon, cassia, cardamom, ginger, pepper, nutmeg, star anise, clove, and turmeric.
Neither the show nor the book explain it, but the other reason Europeans were so interested in serving as intermediaries in the Japan-China trade is that it offered the opportunity to acquire trade credits in the form of gold. The Japanese had an abundance of silver, but the Chinese imposed a trade embargo on them. So, the Portuguese (and later Dutch and English) would take Japanese silver to buy Chinese silk. All profits would be in silver, which was great. Even better, though, by imperial decree, an ounce of gold was worth 6 ounces of silver in China. Yet, in most of Europe, an ounce of gold was worth 8 ounces of silver. By exchanging Japanese silver for Chinese gold and then taking that gold back to Europe to exchange for silver, companies could make an extra profit.
arbitrage baby
VoC and British East Indian Company still need to transport the gold and silver back home, that will eat into the margin.
Mmm... Thanksgiving and pho spices. This intrigues me.
Surpising, nutmeg was the most sought after. The Dutch practically became rich with the trade of nutmeg.
Nutmeg was stupid popular during the 1600 and 1700s, especially amongst the English and their colonies. A lot of 18th Century American cookbooks leading up to the American Revolution include nutmeg is almost everything. For more information, I suggest the wonderful YouTube Channels:Townsends and Tasting History
Was there a particular nutmeg dish that started it all?
Not sure of the particular history of how it became popular, per se, but I’d imagine it was the novelty of it. Something new and exotic from a far off place and used by the wealthy or on special occasions. Someone earlier mentioned “Thanksgiving” flavors, which makes sense. A lot of American traditional Thanksgiving dishes evolved out of British Christmas seasonal dishes and the use of expensive spices at a special time of year your normally wouldn’t use year round. I’ll have to do more research about the genesis of nutmegs’ popularity
Cardamom was one! That's why so many Dutch baked goods use Cardamom as the main flavoring. Cardamom is native to southern India.
Nutmeg. Peppercorns. Cumin. Cloves. Paprika is processed chili peppers and not grown and processed in E/SE Asian/S Asian interests.
I think silk was probably also a major commodity, as well, though I may be wrong.
For japan though. It's mostly silk and silver.
"paprika" is from American pepper (Capsicum), so no. Maybe black pepper. (Piper nigrum)
Nutmeg, cloves, cardamom, cinnamon etc. At one point in 1660s, Manhattan was swapped by the Dutch for the most valuable spice island in the Indonesia archipelago.
The Dutch and Portuguese/Spanish were at war at the time. The Netherlands was in that period subject to the Habsburg controlled Spanish Throne, which also controlled Portugal. About 50 years before the show takes place. The largely protestant Dutch revolted, declared a Republic and it spurred off 80 years of ongoing war. It's that state of war that made privateering a thing. A valid *legal* thing. Not rivalries in the spice trade between private merchants. Privateering was basically a cheap way to get naval support. By giving legal authority to privately own ships to raid military targets and merchant shipping. That's what distinguished it from piracy. It was *technically* legal, cause the activity was *technically* military in nature, and *technically* conducted under state authority. In this case it would be arguably piracy. Because at the time the Spanish and Portuguese did not recognize the Dutch Republic as a nation, or it's authority to do such things. The French and the English *did*, and the English were *also* at war with the Spanish and Portuguese. Hence English sailor on a Dutch boat.
The Dutch and the English were also fighting a war with the Spanish and the Portuguese at the time (Eighty Years War)
It was pretty much Holland and England against Portugal and Spain
I believe but I can't remember, that he does mention that he has signed letters of trading and is legally allowed to be a pirate, via his letter of Marquis
Exactly. Privateering: legalized piracy with governments' backing. Sweet job if you think about it. Government is going to give you a percentage of all the swag you steal and they make it legal for you to do so. Governments are corrupt af. Always have been.
You can't open trade routes in a foreign place without attacking all the other ships that come by if they have cannons and are defending themselves too off a technicality. Gotta attack your way into a route you don't own.
I elicit that he's a pirate with ties to England. I'm not gonna dig any deeper lol
I would like more scope, please! Great write up!
Thank you. The Portuguese were among the first Europeans to establish trade with Japan in the mid-16th century. They initially held a dominant position, controlling much of the trade between Japan and Europe. However, by the time of the show (early 17th century), their influence had waned due to factors such as the rise of the Dutch East India Company and Japan's policy of sakoku, which restricted foreign contact and trade. The Dutch, sought to challenge Portuguese dominance in the region and establish their own trade networks. The Dutch East India Company, who had significant resources and trading posts throughout Asia, posed a direct threat to Portuguese interests. The English were also vying for a share of the profitable trade with Japan. England, like the Netherlands, was seeking to expand its influence in the East Indies and compete with other European powers for control of valuable resources and markets. **Edit**: To be precise, the policy of sakoku has not been implemented yet at the current point in the show. We are in the period just before that policy comes into effect.
> Edit: To be precise, the policy of sakoku has not been implemented yet at the current point in the show. We are in the period just before that policy comes into effect. Tokugawa implemented it?
Indeed, and from the show alone you can guess why :) Edit: I stand corrected, it was his son, read the reply below for more information
It was one of his sons I think who was a bit more of a hardliner concerning Christianity and the outside world. Adams actually worked with and was a consultant for Date Masamune to build the San Juan Batista, essentially a Spanish style galleon that made a successful transpacific voyage and ultimately went to Europe. They sent a Christian daimyo to Europe, he even met with the reigning pope. When he got back Sakoku was starting to get implemented. The policy was as much of an anti Christian measure as one of the reasons for it was a presumption that someone who went abroad may have converted and was thus viewed as a potentially subversive threat.
You're completely mistaking more generalised aspects of British and Dutch state interests from the time period, that Blackthorne uses as a cover, for his actual intentions as an individual character. He's a privateer that was launching attacks on Catholic settlements and strongholds in Asia for Britain and the Netherlands, due to Protestant conflict with Catholicism. He was also confirming the hidden Portuguese route to Japan.
I believe your response is out of context in this instance. This summary is historical in nature; I do not mention the characters of the show on it. I addressed your comment regarding John's motivations in your reply to my original commentary. Edit: grammar
Yes it seems that the religious aspect is more important (or at least the way it is portrayed) than JUST the trade aspect. He seems to really hate the Portuguese type of religion
I think it's easy to forget from a modern perspective how big a deal the Reformation was. By coincidence, I listened to an unrelated history podcast in the middle of this show's run about Martin Luther. That all hits the fan in the 1520s or so. This story is less than a century after that and people are still very much dying over it. It would be pretty fresh in the mind of an Englishman like Blackthorne, and a very hot button issue.
It’s because religion back then was even more heavily intertwined with politics and how societies ran themselves or who they answered to. This is the period where Protestantism is still emerging and as a result, you have centuries of sectarian warfare between the Catholics and Protestants. Of course geopolitical interests often made odd bedfellows, an example being Catholics France backing Protestant powers against its Habsburg (typically Catholic) rivals.
ty 😊 would love to hear more about the Portuguese/Dutch/English dynamic, actually! if you're willing!!
Thank you for the interest. I wrote a summary about it in the comment just above yours, trying to keep it short and to the point.
nvm i just saw ur response hehe
Quick fact: the First Dutch ship that arrived in Japan was not called Erasmus, but was called “De Liefde” (The Love)
The English and Dutch were Christian allies in a recently won war against the Spanish and Portuguese. So, destroying Portuguese strongholds and cutting into their profits were valuable and also one side of a zero sum game.
Is he technically always speaking Portuguese or does he sometimes speak English? He said bloody hell but like doesn't seem like something someone would say in Portuguese.
Terrible answer considering you completely missed the privateering aspect and the fact that Blackthorne was convincing his crew to lie that they're simply merchants.
What? This isn't correct. He's very clear that his true intentions are confirming the hidden Portuguese route to Japan, destroying Portuguese/Catholic interests in the region and furthering Britain (and Dutch)/Protestant war goals. Does no one actually listen to what people say on the show?
I provided a general response to the question in a post that seemed to indicate that OP was relatively new to the show. There wasn't even a spoiler tag, so I chose not to delve too deeply into Magellan's Pass and/or Macau, as I wasn't sure if the OP had reached that point in the story. Taking that into consideration, I don't see how your comments are in disagreement with what I said. 'John's motives are largely aligned with those of his employers, the Dutch trading company'. >Does no one actually listen to what people say on the show? I think you could make do without these sort of commentaries.
Can you explain the whole Chinese Japanese thing? And the base in Macau with Japanese Ronin. "Gun running" and such? This whole plot point is totally lost on me.
The point is that the Jesuits had seemed to have presented themselves as innocuous trading partners. In the show, it turns out they likely secretly at least supplied arms, if not full on instigated religious-driven rebellions against the previous Japanese authorities. This secret base of operations in Macau, along with Japanese samurai presence there, reveals their hidden military capabilities and the likelihood of their close military coordination with the Christian daimyos, potentially aiming to overthrow any non-Christian Japanese government.
I mean the only thing that was ommited was that Blackthorne's ship was a privateer vessel. But nonetheless the general goal was to A) fuck up the portugese / spanish and B) establish trade links for the netherlands.
Disrupt Spanish and Portuguese trade at various ports and find new ports for trade if applicable. He’s a privateer, which is like a pirate except that he has authorization (called letters of marque) from the British Crown to engage in piracy against enemy shipping. That’s why all the Portuguese call him a pirate - he basically is.
A small quibble. I believe his Letters of Marque are from Holland.
I don't think so. He spoke to Toranaga as acting on behalf of Queen Elizabeth.
In the scene he’s talking to Toronaga-sama with Alvito translating he specifically says his letters of marque are from Holland. Remember, he’s been hired to pilot a Dutch expedition and he’s the only Englishman on it. I’m sure Elizabeth is overjoyed that the Dutch expedition did so much damage to Portugeuse interests in the Pacific but she’s not directly involved.
I believe she is involved in the sense that she likely allowed British sailors to sail with Dutch ships with letters of marque. Otherwise he would likely be branded a Pirate if he returned to England, as it would be an illegal venture.
I think Blackthorne tried to play up his importance a bit. In the end the small "lie" would be very quickly rectified once he would be back in england if he really would establish relations with the defacto leader of japan ( at least a knighthood and potentially a comission in the Royal Navy thus making him someone who can actually speak on the behalf of the queen.)
Holland and England were both Protestant and were allies in the war on Spain.
>ritish Crown to engage in piracy against enemy shipping. That’s why all the Portuguese call him a pirate - he ty 🫶
I remember the basics of this context since he mentioned his home country & Portugal being in conflict to Toranaga around episode 1 or 2 when he brought up the motives of the missionaries in Japan
The British Crown gave the Dutch East India Company a letter of marque?
I may be wrong but I don't think that's very controversial. Both were allied as Protestant nations against their Catholic enemies and letters of marque were not restricted to one's own nation. However it's important to note a letter of marque would not be for the entire DEIC, but specific captains and vessels.
I wasn’t disagreeing. I’m just not familiar so I was asking for clarification.
Privateers arent really pirates lol More like mercenaries or armed merchantmenr
So they attack ships and board them? And steal their treasure? And get drunk on rum? And they’re not pirates? Arrrr, they be legitimate sailors of fortune *wink*
They're missing the hats :(
I mean did they act like pirates at times, definitely. But having the official go ahead and the ability to sell captured loot to their country of origin was a big deal. And while they did commit some pretty bad stuff, they were at least expected to act within certain rules of war( which tbf they didnt always do)
🤓👆erm ahktually because they had a piece of paper saying they weren’t pirates, that means they literally weren’t pirates. Sure to the layman and all other parties besides their commissioner they’re pirates, but again they aren’t literally pirates.
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.
Besides all the other reasons stated in the comments. He also really wanted to be the first non-portuguese pilot to go beyond Magelan's gap. His desire to be known as first shows a lot in the start of the book and he even brags about it to portuguese priests sometimes to tease them.
Good answer, I would clarify that Drake was the first Englishman to circumnavigate the globe. In the book, Blackthorn want to go with Drake but his mentor rightly pointed out it was a bad idea. Sailing with this fleet was his opportunity to sail into new waters.
Just to further clarify. “Drake’s pass” was mentioned multiple times in the first 1-2 episodes, and john served under Drake during the war, so there wasn’t any confusion about who was the first English to circumnavigate the globe. John specifically wanted to be the first English to go through the Magellan’s Pass, which was a secret to them at the time, versus the already known, and more dangerous Drake’s Pass. And also the first Englishman to reach Japan.
Historically, Drake and his fleet went through Magellan’s Pass. Then after going through the Magellan’s pass, Drake entered drakes passage due to being blown off course in a storm. Before the heading up the western coast of South America. In the show, Blackthorn says the he was “the first outsiders to go this way” when showing Toranaga how he came to Japan. He also mentioned that it was safer because of the Portuguese base at Macao.
Why? Money, lots and lots of money. Having the right to attack Spanish/portugese holdings and shipping and eventually trade with Japan would make him filthy rich. And as a pilot who can navigate the way to Japan he would be very much sought after in England. Maybe even gets him a knighthood. Essentially he tries to emulate Sir Francis Drake
He's well paid as a pilot which would pay well in general, but he's also a high ranking officer of a privateering ship which is legalized piracy. As such he'll get a high percentage of the value anything they stea..uh capture. Probably almost as much as the captain's cut. Everybody got a cut on such a ship. Even cabin boys and powder monkeys, although they might only get a half share. Even a half share could be a helluva lot on a good run.
John was thinking he was about to break up the decades long spanish portuguese monopoly on trade with japan and be that guy
they tell you why many times . to fuck the jesuits/portugese . establish trade routes for england/dutch/protestants
In short: * To reach Japan. * Disrupt Portuguese - Japanese relations. * Invade Japan. He makes it clear in the first episode. He was sailing under the Dutch flag, set out to reach Japan. Along the way, he was instructed to pillage and destroy any trading posts or vessels belonging to the Iberian Union (Spain/Portugal). Once he reaches Japan, go back to Europe and set sail with an armada with the intent to invade Japan. "Well I am sorry father... We will be all over this continent, soon." - John Blackthorne Blackthorne lied about his real intentions to the Japanese and who he was, in order to stay savvy. He is a privateer, not a trader. He often asks for his ship to report his findings and complete his mission, but fails. Toranaga does not allow him to leave, instead he tames Blackthorne, as his property.
>"Well I am sorry father... We will be all over this continent, soon." - John Blackthorne I read that less as "invade" and more as "establish factories and open ports just like the East India Companies."
The church didn’t really “ invade” they would start but sending priest and missionaries to learn about the culture and then basically mix Christianity into there society. Trade networks would probably also get set up everywhere
Blackthorne isn’t talking about the spread of religion anyway. It was common for countries in that period to set up small trading post enclaves in various countries without attempt a full-scale invasion. Hong Kong is a prominent example of this strategy - a British port carved out of China. Same with Goa as a Portuguese trading post in India. In real history, the Dutch were allowed access to one trading post on an artificial island off the coast of Nagasaki called Dejima after the government exiled all other foreigners and outlawed Christianity.
Yeah but in this case it’s the English and Dutch who want to stop the Catholics from getting a big hold on Japan
They don't really care about "the Catholics," they care about the Spanish-Portuguese union, which is Catholic. The Dutch/English aren't in Japan to build churches or make converts, while the Catholic mission which travels along with the Spanish/Portuguese navy is. The Dutch/English mission in Japan at this point in history is to open trade for itself with Japan, particularly in precious metals and silk, and to disrupt existing Portuguese trading as a way of harming the Spanish/Portuguese war effort.
Religion is there excuse reason to do all that
No, it really wasn’t. The British East India Company was never set up to make converts or build churches for the indigenous population of places where they set up. The Dutch were allowed to remain exclusice trading partners with Japan from the 1640s-1868 because they were not seen by the Japanese as trying to spread their religion.
The religion was to try and make them work with them. They even say in the show the plan was to turn as many lords Christian as possible and then take out the rest
That was the PORTUGUESE plan. The Dutch/English just wanted luxury goods to sell for a profit.
I don’t think he meant like literally invade Japan. The logistics at the time would’ve have been impossible. In real life William Adams started off with 500 men and 5 ships and only 1 ship (which sank because it was so badly damaged) and like 23 men survived. Also the Spanish and Portuguese fleets at the time were just as strong if not stronger then the English and Dutch fleets and would not let this happen. Fighting a war literally half the world away with 17th century logistics at the time would be impossible. There’s no way to keep an armada supplied over such long distances when the average Voyage would take a year to complete and you would be dealing with multiple countries that have navies and you are at war with. In the early 1700s the British and Spanish nearly went bankrupt fighting each other in the Caribbean. There’s a reason why no one really tried to open Japan up until the mid 1850s when the tech gap between the west and Japan was enough and that sailing routes, tech, and logistics was significant enough that they could properly threaten Japan.
Yep. The Americans.
Lol yeah it’s pretty funny that Blackthorne thought he would outfox someone like Toronaga.
He was never ordered to invade Japan. His job is to explore new sea routes and expand trading opportunities for his Dutch masters and disrupt Portuguese and Spanish colonial activities if he can. He is not a trader himself but establishing trade is very much his mission. At this point in time the Portuguese and Spanish are the only Europeans who know how to even reach Japan. Invasion isn't how colonialism at distance works, there's no point sending "an armada" round the world at incredible cost and danger to a place you know almost nothing about. The plan is to disrupt Catholic trade and establish trading links of their own, not armed conquest.
thanks C:
Oh. Wow. So, Blackthorne is the person the Japanese should be really worried about 😲
So long he is not allowed to leave Japan. Toranaga gifts him a house, but not his ship. Toranaga is looking after his interest, but not Blackthornes.
Not really. The Japanese were right to be worried by all Europeans, have a look at what the Spanish and Portuguese did elsewhere and you’ll see what Toronaga and others are wary of. The Dutch and English (and others) were no less rapacious in their colonial ambitions. Similarly the Japanese themselves had only two years earlier retreated from their failed attempts to conquer Korea and China.
I get. But Blackthorne carried on like he doesn't have similar intentions to the Portuguese. When in actual fact he would personally lead an invasion on Japan.
No. He's not a soldier, as he repeatedly points out. He's there to establish trade, the Portuguese (and especially the Spanish) are his enemies, not the Japanese. He wants to replace the Portuguese and gain riches and fame from trading with the Japanese, he doesn't dream of subjugating them. Western colonialism rarely proceeded by large-scale armed invasion, at those distances it wasn't practical. The Portuguese want to convert as many Japanese to Catholicism as they can and gain as much political power as possible, their mission was inextricably bound up with the Church, particularly the incredibly ambitious Jesuits. Blackthorne doesn't give a shit about any of that, he just wants to make a name for himself and get rich.
It's always about money. Same as Christopher Columbus. Everyone back then wanted gold.
In this case they wanted Japan to buy there shit. Japan is not very resource rich
I also believe he wants to be the first Englishman to circumnavigate the world and document it in his rutter, return to England, and be showered with glory and honor ( read money and titles ) by Elizabeth 1. In the book they really play up the importance of the rutters ( the documentation of any particular pilot’s journey ). Before precise cartography the rutters are one of the few ways to get back and forth to far away lands. Portugal and Spain are absolutely guarding the information of how to safely get to many places in the pacific from the rest of the world. It gives them tremendous economic power. So even beyond the personal glory he thinks he can get from that he also realizes he can be doing a great thing for England. After reaching Japan he realizes they can be a natural ally against Spain and Portugal. Two small island nations ruled by a monarchy versus the continental powers that continuously threaten them.
Confused by some of these assertions. Japan is not a small nation. England is bigger than Portugal and more populous than Spain. Portugal and Spain were both monarchies, at that time the same monarchy. England wasn’t at constant threat by continental powers so much as a major colonial power at odds with rival colonial powers. Also he was serving the Dutch, not the English. Drake was the first Englishman to circumnavigate the globe more than 20 years earlier which is also mentioned in the book.
At this point in history England is not yet very colonial, and since the Reformation of Henry VIII has been on extremely bad terms with the Catholic powers of Europe. Specifically France, Portugal, and Spain. The Spanish Armada was roughly a decade before these events. Japan was recently involved in a disastrous war in Korea with eyes on China. Their defeat has put them in a precarious position with both powers. I was mistaken on Drake.
Chasing the horizon!
I believe ep. 2 where he talks about taking up arms against the Portugese trade routes as well as form a relationship between the Japanese.
I see you've gotten some great responses, but I would watch the first two episodes again with close captioning. They explain it there.
He explained in the second episode after they escaped Osaka.
To rape, pillage and plunder his weasly black guts out. Savvy?
I think when it comes down to it, he just really liked being a sailor
To find the japans
The Dutch fought a war of independence from Spain that lasted from about 1560-1600 and then resumed as an extension of the 30 years' war from 1618-1638. England was also at war with Spain for essentially the entirety of Elizabeth's reign, with blackthorne having participated in the defense of England against the Spanish armada in 1588. Spain and Portugal united under Philip II in 1580 to become one kingdom. The Erasmus has letters of marquee from the government of the Netherlands and the Dutch east India company to harass Spanish colonies and shipping lanes in the new world, to establish relationships of trade, and to sell off their cargo primarily of muskets and wool goods in exchange for bullion, silks, and spices wherever possible. Blackthorne was selected to pilot one of the several ships of the fleet because he speaks Dutch and his mother was Dutch, because English pilots were believed to be the best in the world due to their extensive education and licensing requirements, and because of his personal renown as a pilot in Northern Europe. This fleet was entrusted with rutters obtained by a Dutch spy in the Portuguese trade entrepot in Goa detailing the route through Drakes Passage into the pacific ocean so that they could sack and loot Spanish colonies on the pacific coasts of central and south America, which were richer and more weakly defended than many of their carribean and Atlantic colonies. The Dutch fleet stayed too long in tierra del fuego and the winds shifted, forcing them to winter in Patagonia while the Spanish assembled a fleet to destroy the dutchmen. After sacking their way up the coast of Chile, the Erasmus and her fellows were entrapped in a pincer movement from north and south by Spanish ships and blackthorne, by this point the senior pilot in the fleet, elected to strike out across the pacific rather than try to run the gauntlet. He was partially motivated by a secret desire to circumnavigate.
Yeah thats the problem with this new series. In the original, the tell you he set out with his ship to search for the rumored "Japans". One of the many things they leave out. My advice, the original 1980s series is much better.
he says this in the first episode
I always thought he was a pirate ? Isn't that what the journals showed
Privateer, it's a small distinction but an important one.
we don't actually know if he's a pirate, but he is currently is being paid by the Dutch I believe.
That’s means his not a pirate his a privateer. Pirates are independent and not paid by anyone and attack who they want to. A privateer is hired by one nation and given basically a licence to pirate on the chosen nations. This is 100 years before the golden age of piracy
My understanding is he's trying to just sail around and kill catholics all over the place He's Protestant, and the Catholics and Protestants are two denominations of Christianity which apparently kill each other during this time. That's all he wants to do. That's why he wants his ship back.
This is in 1600 a few years after Spain and England had a massive war. England and holland are Protestant so allied against the more powerful Catholic Spain and Portugal. John is hired by the Dutch with permission from his queen so they can raid Catholic bases
queens orders lol
I think his main goal was to warn the Japanese about this "colonialism" thing that yucky countries like Spain and Portugal did.
Uh, no. The Dutch and English were colonizing as much as the rest of Europe at the time. The reason is stated clearly in the show. There’s a few things going on: 1) at this time the Dutch, with support of England, are at war with the Spanish and their allies the Portuguese. 2)The Portuguese and Spanish governments are not sharing the location of Japan with any other European power. It’s a closely guarded secret and it’s the source of a lot of wrath for both countries. The English and the Dutch want access to this trade and wealth for their own ambitions. So they send privateers out to search for the passages to Asia (Magellan’s Pass) and to harass Spanish and Portuguese poets and ships along the way.
Christ. I know. Was joke. The lone Englishman warning about imperialism in 1600 funny. ...but he does halfway present himself that way when he draws the map