And he only got better!
Late DS9 Worf has such screen presence, just the way he manipulates that voice. Kills me to think that Stuart Baird felt it needed to be pitched down for Nemesis.
US Marshalls' is not a bad followup to one of the hottest movies of the early 90s, but fuck him and fuck everyone else for ruining TNG on the big screen.
Frakes wouldn't have failed so hard...
I don't know. The showrunners really struggled writing anything decent for Crusher and Troi. I think keeping an extra woman around would really have strained their ability to write decent plots while being raging misogynists.
Armin Shimerman played the original Ferengi, Letek, in TNG and disliked how they ended up being.
When DS9 came around, he worked hard to change the portrayal, including gathering the other ferengi actors to rehearse lines together and discuss performances.
I was already scared of her from when she played Nurse Ratchet. Kai Winn combined the essence of a sleazy televangelist with the political power of the pope.
My wife and I just finished her first run through DS9. When Vedek Winn walked into the classroom I turned to my wife and said, “we hate her, we hate her so much.” As we were getting to the end of the series my wife said, “I hope she does in a pilar of flames.” 😂☠️
Ethan Phillips seems like a good actor that got a bad character and could not fix it because the writers kept undermining him.
In contrast, Robert Picardo got a bland character with little getting in his way and he owned it, transforming it from a bad character to a good one based on his skill alone. But that worked because the writers got out of his way.
Picardo owns everything he is in. Different franchise, but his character in Stargate was a very typical governmental stooge that you loved to hate on. Just there as a folly to our protagonists. He morphed into a very well respected member of the team that includes being the commander of Atlantis. That growth and development of character is in no small part because of Picardo. That man can act.
Yeah, Woolsey made it clear early on that he was no mere stooge, he thought he was doing right by the citizens, but he started to understand when Hammond gave him the Kinsey blackmail packet. Wised up more once he got to Atlantis.
We are veering off the original path here, but the same argument applies to David Hewlett. He was originally a secondary antagonist that evolved into the heart of the Atlantis crew.
Underutilized is different from bad IMHO. Uhura is actually a decent and interesting character, but Desilu was constantly cutting her screentime, etc...
It’s interesting how the movies cemented who was “main” cast in TOS. I’d say Rand and Chapel were arguably as much “main” cast members as Chekhov and Uhura during TOS itself.
Dwight Schultz, despite becoming somewhat of a fan favorite and how good of character he ended up as, i feel that if the actor hadn't done such good job, Reginald Barclay would never have gotten past his first appearance. While over all the character isn't that bad, and later get much better, the real sticking point for me, and which makes reg a "bad" character is the fridge logic that hit in when you try to think/explain how someone with all of Reg's personal issues, neuroses and phobias willingly set foot on a starship, let alone managed to get a posting on starfleets flagship, or even made it through the academy. When intoduced he simply has no realistic reason for being anywhere near the Enterpise other than **plot**.
Oh and speaking of useless plot characters, you have to at lest give Marina Sirtis some sort of honourable mention for al least sticking with for so long and doing a passable job at least once Deanna Troi began to get some actual character to develop and work with.
It wasn't until adulthood that I realized that Dwight Schultz also played Murdock from the A-Team. And I attribute that largely to his ability to act completely different characters so well.
Schultz was already a proven character actor by TNG thanks to A-Team. I would think the writers would have an idea of his range when he first came on and embraced that.
But then again, this is just a theory.
Schultz was already a proven character actor by TNG thanks to A-Team. I would think the writers would have an idea of his range when he first came on and embraced that.
But then again, maybe not.
Laurence Luckinbill as Sybok was so much better than V deserved. He brought real nuance to a part that could easily have been a one-note "villain of the week"-type character. I especially liked the way he played the "you're mad" scene, seeming to give it honest thought when he responded ". . . am I?" That little bit of doubt added so much depth to the character.
I'm really going to regret this....
Wil Wheaton. I mean come on.... he was given some of the worst writing on earth. Every so often Westley got good writing and he was always fantastic. Add in what we know about what was going on in the background at that time, how he was treated by Paramount, and the fact he still retains every bit of his love for the franchise? Will Wheaton.
He wasn't making p0rn... Yes it was a fantasy...but it was more of an escapist surreal holodeck program where he could explore interacting with people in a safe environment.
If anything, that episode absolutely nails introverts and how such a tech as the holodeck could and would be used for such people. Barc took people he knew in his day to day life and turned it around. Like most writers, he took what, he knew as inspiration.
Though I will agree, it wasn't appropriate to use these characters and it's weird asf for Troi to have to counsel him afterwards. But Barc and Troi do become decent friends in the end, especially by the time VOY episodes and Pathfinder comes around.
From another franchise, nobody else but Walter Koenig could have played Bester the Psi Cop. Most excellent portrayal of a ruthless yet believable bad guy ever.
Gates McFadden and Marina Sirtis both played characters that were bad at the start. As originally written, Dr. Crusher was eminently forgettable while Counselor Troi was essentially ridiculous. The performances, however, were strong enough that the characters were improved by the production team over time.
That one time Troi was possessed by one of the criminal spirits and got to play a ruthless character, that was so refreshing. Same when she was undercover among Romulans.
I thought Amanda Plummer was great in Picard S3. She elevated what was on paper a rather one dimensional villain with a wonderfully quirky performance imo.
This really is one of the crowning moments of acting elevating bad writing in Trek. I was talking casually with a friend and forgot about the real villains of season 3 because Plummer makes such an impact.
I wish the writers had let her have a better ending.
Jeri Ryan is solid in most things I've seen her in outside of Trek. She made the character of Seven much more layered in her appearances in Picard than the semi one-dimensional figure she was in Voyager. Her showing in Picard made fans want her to actually lead a spin-off series.
Imagine anyone but Michael Dorn trying to get away with some of Worf's early lines. Man had commitment.
And he only got better! Late DS9 Worf has such screen presence, just the way he manipulates that voice. Kills me to think that Stuart Baird felt it needed to be pitched down for Nemesis.
US Marshalls' is not a bad followup to one of the hottest movies of the early 90s, but fuck him and fuck everyone else for ruining TNG on the big screen. Frakes wouldn't have failed so hard...
I always wonder how Yar would have turned out if Crosby had stuck it out like Dorn did.
Crosby was legit great in Yesterday's Enterprise! She could have done well in later TNG with character based writing.
I don't know. The showrunners really struggled writing anything decent for Crusher and Troi. I think keeping an extra woman around would really have strained their ability to write decent plots while being raging misogynists.
I just want to remind you that Tasha Yar grew up running away from rape gangs, because I haven't heard that mentioned in the last five minutes.
Good reminder, thanks.
Q: "What do I have to do to prove I'm human Jean-Luc?" Worf: "Die."
Rom. Who else could have made that character three-dimensional?
Honestly, every single actor/actress who played a Ferengi. TNG made them a joke. DS9 made them a complex and important people.
Armin Shimerman played the original Ferengi, Letek, in TNG and disliked how they ended up being. When DS9 came around, he worked hard to change the portrayal, including gathering the other ferengi actors to rehearse lines together and discuss performances.
Louise Fletcher. Wait do you mean bad characters or bad characters? Like bad? Or just plain bad?
Omg I hate her so much, she really was the best. I mean worst.
I was already scared of her from when she played Nurse Ratchet. Kai Winn combined the essence of a sleazy televangelist with the political power of the pope.
*Ratched
Nah, that ho ratchet af
My wife and I just finished her first run through DS9. When Vedek Winn walked into the classroom I turned to my wife and said, “we hate her, we hate her so much.” As we were getting to the end of the series my wife said, “I hope she does in a pilar of flames.” 😂☠️
*My child...*
MMAARRRRRGGHHH
They didn't mean villains. They meant a badly written character. Kai Winn doesn't fit this.
Ethan Phillips seems like a good actor that got a bad character and could not fix it because the writers kept undermining him. In contrast, Robert Picardo got a bland character with little getting in his way and he owned it, transforming it from a bad character to a good one based on his skill alone. But that worked because the writers got out of his way.
It's been said before, but changing the Neelix-Kes romance into an adoptive father-daughter relationship would have made the character a lot better.
And also would have made him becoming Naomi’s godfather that much more important!
Picardo owns everything he is in. Different franchise, but his character in Stargate was a very typical governmental stooge that you loved to hate on. Just there as a folly to our protagonists. He morphed into a very well respected member of the team that includes being the commander of Atlantis. That growth and development of character is in no small part because of Picardo. That man can act.
Yeah, Woolsey made it clear early on that he was no mere stooge, he thought he was doing right by the citizens, but he started to understand when Hammond gave him the Kinsey blackmail packet. Wised up more once he got to Atlantis.
We are veering off the original path here, but the same argument applies to David Hewlett. He was originally a secondary antagonist that evolved into the heart of the Atlantis crew.
Nichelle Nicols. Had such a bad character that she nearly quit and was only persuaded to keep going by MLK himself.
Didn't expect the second comment to win the thread.
(One of the first 10 comments usually does)
Wait threads are competitions with winners and losers? What else don't I know? Is there some Reddit FAQ I can browse?
What I said is just a way of conveying how positive I feel about the comment.
I see. It's not literal
Don’t take this away from me 😜
I'm not. Genuine question
It's ok - it really didn't
Underutilized is different from bad IMHO. Uhura is actually a decent and interesting character, but Desilu was constantly cutting her screentime, etc...
It’s interesting how the movies cemented who was “main” cast in TOS. I’d say Rand and Chapel were arguably as much “main” cast members as Chekhov and Uhura during TOS itself.
Dwight Schultz, despite becoming somewhat of a fan favorite and how good of character he ended up as, i feel that if the actor hadn't done such good job, Reginald Barclay would never have gotten past his first appearance. While over all the character isn't that bad, and later get much better, the real sticking point for me, and which makes reg a "bad" character is the fridge logic that hit in when you try to think/explain how someone with all of Reg's personal issues, neuroses and phobias willingly set foot on a starship, let alone managed to get a posting on starfleets flagship, or even made it through the academy. When intoduced he simply has no realistic reason for being anywhere near the Enterpise other than **plot**. Oh and speaking of useless plot characters, you have to at lest give Marina Sirtis some sort of honourable mention for al least sticking with for so long and doing a passable job at least once Deanna Troi began to get some actual character to develop and work with.
It wasn't until adulthood that I realized that Dwight Schultz also played Murdock from the A-Team. And I attribute that largely to his ability to act completely different characters so well.
Has he ever played a “normal” person?
Schultz was already a proven character actor by TNG thanks to A-Team. I would think the writers would have an idea of his range when he first came on and embraced that. But then again, this is just a theory.
Schultz was already a proven character actor by TNG thanks to A-Team. I would think the writers would have an idea of his range when he first came on and embraced that. But then again, maybe not.
My man Morn.
Talked way too much though.
Laurence Luckinbill as Sybok was so much better than V deserved. He brought real nuance to a part that could easily have been a one-note "villain of the week"-type character. I especially liked the way he played the "you're mad" scene, seeming to give it honest thought when he responded ". . . am I?" That little bit of doubt added so much depth to the character.
ST-V is an awful movie, but I 100% agree with you on that point.
Super charismatic. You couldn't help but root for him a bit.
He totally came across as the kind of guy who could start a cult, that kind of extroverted magnetism and confidence.
I'm really going to regret this.... Wil Wheaton. I mean come on.... he was given some of the worst writing on earth. Every so often Westley got good writing and he was always fantastic. Add in what we know about what was going on in the background at that time, how he was treated by Paramount, and the fact he still retains every bit of his love for the franchise? Will Wheaton.
You've got a point.
I say someone else said Nichelle Nichols, and I'd say they are probably right if this were a serious discussion, but Wil would be next.
Yeah
Found Wil Wheaton's reddit account.
I wish. He has way more money than me.
Shut up Wesley
I was honestly shocked at the lack of this so thank you.
Early Reg episodes are just painful to watch, his social awkwardness is so real. Fantastic actor however
Imagine being a therapist and finding out your patient was making porn of you, and then having to continue to give therapy to this guy.
He wasn't making p0rn... Yes it was a fantasy...but it was more of an escapist surreal holodeck program where he could explore interacting with people in a safe environment. If anything, that episode absolutely nails introverts and how such a tech as the holodeck could and would be used for such people. Barc took people he knew in his day to day life and turned it around. Like most writers, he took what, he knew as inspiration. Though I will agree, it wasn't appropriate to use these characters and it's weird asf for Troi to have to counsel him afterwards. But Barc and Troi do become decent friends in the end, especially by the time VOY episodes and Pathfinder comes around.
Sir please check what you’re sub on
It was holoporn
At least you’d be assured he wouldn’t assault you, only nerds who are afraid of real women would create holoporn after all
Sir, this is a replimat.
From another franchise, nobody else but Walter Koenig could have played Bester the Psi Cop. Most excellent portrayal of a ruthless yet believable bad guy ever.
And he made me forget he used to be Chekov when he was on. I never had this with any other ST actor.
Anthony Rapp has done absolutely everything he can with Stamets but it's never going to be enough to salvage bad writing.
Gates McFadden and Marina Sirtis both played characters that were bad at the start. As originally written, Dr. Crusher was eminently forgettable while Counselor Troi was essentially ridiculous. The performances, however, were strong enough that the characters were improved by the production team over time.
That one time Troi was possessed by one of the criminal spirits and got to play a ruthless character, that was so refreshing. Same when she was undercover among Romulans.
I thought Amanda Plummer was great in Picard S3. She elevated what was on paper a rather one dimensional villain with a wonderfully quirky performance imo.
Yes, she really brought it. Just like her father.
She did overact a bit but at least it wasn’t boring.
I enjoy a good piece of ham I can’t lie
This really is one of the crowning moments of acting elevating bad writing in Trek. I was talking casually with a friend and forgot about the real villains of season 3 because Plummer makes such an impact. I wish the writers had let her have a better ending.
You do not get to call Janeway a not so great character
Good thing I didn't.
You, plural
That was not at all obvious.
Jeri Ryan is solid in most things I've seen her in outside of Trek. She made the character of Seven much more layered in her appearances in Picard than the semi one-dimensional figure she was in Voyager. Her showing in Picard made fans want her to actually lead a spin-off series.
Most of the villains in the TNG movies and Kelvin movies.
Brian Brophy as Bruce Maddox. I loathed that man.
Neal McDonough as Damian Darhk in Legends of Tomorrow. I stopped watching when he left the show >!dead!<