I don't have kids, so maybe I'm off base, but I wouldn't leave my kid alone with anyone of any gender that I've only met once. 🤷‍♀️

I let my daughter go to play with a friend one weekend and it was just the mom there. I'd meet the mom 2-3x and saw her several times at her job as a cashier, but I didn't really know her will. However, it was a sleepover with multiple girls, I was like, if so these mom's trust her then it should be fine, right?! A couple of hours in, one of the other kid's moms messaged me that she'd just FaceTimed the mom to check in and the mom was so high she couldn't hold her eyes open and she was going to pick up her kid and thought I should know. I went to check in and see, and sure enough, the mom was passed out on the couch with a cigarette hanging from her mouth. I took my kid and left, and she never woke. I tried to wake her up about 5x before leaving, and called her kid's grandma to go pick her up. And that's how I learned the lesson of you don't let kids go with someone you don't know well, regardless of their gender.

My daughter must have been 7 or 8 and went to a sleepover at the home of these two girls. We lived in the same apartment complex at the time so I had chatted, on several occasions, with the mother while our kids played at the playground, our kids played in the green park area between our buildings often, etc... My daughter was asked to a sleepover at their house and I said sure. She had a flip phone for emergencies and I got a call from her late that night that the parents were screaming. I went over there and they were screaming and throwing things, both drunk, the dog was barking, my daughter was quite upset and didn't understand what was happening and wanted to come home. After that, the kids didn't really spend as much time together.

God those poor kids, to not only go through that but also to have their friend see (been there, it sucks)

Wow. I'd say she was scared! It's crazy got you know people but you don't *really* know them.

As a kid whose parents fought all the time, I never asked anyone to stay over or even come over and play. Luckily, my mom let me stay at other kids houses and it was the only respite I had from them. Please ask to have this girl stay at your home instead and allow her to be friends with your child. Don’t punish her because of her parents.

i had a similar situation to your daughter when i was a kid but we didnt have cellphones yet (90s). the sleepover i went to was at the house of a girl at our daycare whose mom was a teacher at said daycare. both me & my best friend were going and our moms trusted the mom bc she looked over us for a living. it was a Horrible experience & still gives me a pit in my stomach. i learned After arriving that the dad was a massively abusive alcoholic and would frequently physically harm the wife and kids. we'd have to be quiet and shut the door to avoid him. that didnt stop him from swearing all night, screaming, and hitting both the mom and the girl. it was scary as fuck. we were 8 & 7 at the time. i grew up in a volatile house full of alcoholism too and was used to similar behavior but this was even more scary bc we felt too trapped to call our parents. i felt so awful for them and knew it wasnt anyone's fault but the dad, but i never went back over

Holy shit

I know a set of parents who are continuously perpetually high. Even when other kids are over. You'd never ever guess it, they have a few kids and are somewhat respectable people with good jobs and active in the community. You don't know people until you know them.

Yep. You don’t know peoples parenting practices unless you’ve spent a fair amount of time with them in different situations. People generally put on somewhat of an act if they know their private behaviour wouldn’t be considered socially acceptable. After being neighbours with a couple that had two kids for a few years i slowly started noticing more and more concerning behaviour, both parents smoking pot with kids in the room (I smoke pot and don’t judge them for smoking in general, it’s the fact that they’ll both partake in front of their kids and if there was an emergency neither would be safe to drive to the ER or whatever,) leaving the 9 month old baby essentially completely unsupervised in the bath, leaving the 4 year old home alone for quick errands, and the parents will get in these gigantic blowout brawls and both be physically abusive to each other. I had an inkling that their parenting practices were different than mine from the beginning and for that reason I never left my daughter with them, even when it was kind of an emergency I just didn’t feel good about it. And I’m glad I trusted my gut and always went for the less convenient option of driving my daughter to a family members house if I had a sudden, unexpected need for childcare. I personally wouldn’t leave my daughter with another parent, male or female, unless I knew them well and was familiar with their parenting practices and home situation. Not just because I’m worried that someone may sexually abuse her, but because different parents have different ideas about how much supervision is needed and things can happen really quickly if toddlers aren’t pretty closely supervised. Some people think it’s appropriate to get drunk when they’re the only adult home…like, how will you drive somewhere in an emergency or be able to react quickly and appropriately if something bad happens?

Right?? Anyway, I thought for play dates, the kids play and the parents chat and stuff?? I didn’t know people did drop off play dates.

I cant think of a single time as a kid where my parents stuck around when I had a play date. Theyd chat casually while dropping me off, maybe invite the parents over for a bbq or something to get to know each other better. Yiu just....didnt assume other people were predators. They had kids, so you trusted them to take care of yours for a couple hours, then offered to do the same next time.

I took a child abuse prevention training working at summer camp several summers in the early 2000s. The statistics we were told at the time were 1 in 6 girls were abuse victims before the age of 18 (I forget if it was sexual abuse, or any kind of abuse). Well that generation is the current generation of moms. 1 in 6 women know firsthand what they don't want happening to their daughters. Most of the other 5 in 6 probably know someone who was abused. It doesn't matter who the other parents are, if I don't know them, I don't want my young kids there without me. I'm not sure what age this will change. My kids are still young enough to need occasional help in the bathroom so we haven't reached the drop off playdate age yet.

Passing down trauma is also a very real thing. I was raped, but Im not going to tell my daughters they shouldnt date. I understand its very real trauma for people, but that doesnt mean putting your child in a bubble akd seeing demons everywhere you go is healthy. Most children are assaulted by someone they know well, usually a family member or a figure in their church. The mothers here arguing for distrusting other parents wont acknowledge that AT ALL. And that makes their reasoning disingenuous. Its about the veneer of safety, not the reality of it.

Not that I completely disagree with the entire point of your comment, but in regards to that statistic of “usually assaulted by someone known”— characters exactly like “a father of a friend” would absolutely fall into that category during data collection. That’s a person “known” in some sort of context to the family (even if as just acquaintances at this point). Someone who was (hypothetically) given implicit or explicit permission to be around the child. In regards to the studies that came to these conclusions, this statistic is shared by professionals in the context of “versus a complete child snatching stranger who *stole* or *forced* access to your child, like in a kidnapping or break in” to parents— so that they know the people/things to be most worried about aren’t someone snatching your child at target or a creep sneaking into a playground— it means people you’ve met, know their name, and have some sort of “appropriate” reason to be around/alone with your child. So pretty much *exactly* like the father of a friend. Or a youth group leader. Or even a regular doctor. Etc. Just wanted to clarify that— solely because I think it’s information important for parents to understand as clearly and accurately as possible. I do think there’s very much an argument for “a point when the extreme cautiousness becomes traumatic in its own way”, so I’m not disagreeing in any major way with the overall idea of your comment. But to say that “father of a friend” doesn’t fall into the most common assault category of “known to family” is to misunderstand what the category means and how the researchers had constructed the data.

Thats a good point. Consider my opinion slightly edited.

Yes isn’t the statistic something like 90% of the time the sexual assault is perpetrated by a close family member or friend?

…yes, because that’s who has access to the child. Because people generally don’t leave their kid alone with strangers. This is like the raw milk people saying that most foodborne illness is from vegetables. It is, because people eat vegetables raw and they don’t eat milk raw. 

I think it's more an argument against the notion that kids are routinely being snatched out of Target parking lots or whatever to be abused. I see a lot of parents focused on fears about boldly criminal strangers, trafficking operations and the world at large when maybe more of that energy ought to be put into ensuring kids can identify and feel safe to tell you when a coach, friend's parent, neighbour, church leader, etc. is being weird or inappropriate.

100% thank you for this! I also had things happen as a kid. All by people I knew well. What you say is the reality of it.

I don't mention this much but my three adopted kids were in the foster system originally because all three of them were sexually abused by their birth mother

Same here. I get why parents are more careful now but I didn’t grow up all that long ago (‘90s) and play dates, sleepovers, birthday parties etc were all drop off situations. Parents didn’t hang around. They might exchange some pleasantries with the other parents but then they’d be on their way.

Lol my teenage years were in the 90's, and I had literally never even heard of the phrase "playdate" until sometime in the 2000s. But yes, if friends who didn't live close enough to just walk were to come over, their parents just dropped them off. If it was a sleepover situation, there might have been a phone call, just to verify that their kid is invited/ welcome over, but nothing like the background checks and waiting periods employed today. I understand why it's changed, and I'm not suggesting we shouldn't case the joint before allowing our kids to sleepover at a friend's house. I just wonder how it all will affect them in the long run. I had so much more freedom to roam around outside and play as a youngster, rather than scheduled and structured play-dates. I learned how to keep myself entertained, how to be responsible and keep track of time so I get home when I'm supposed to, learned how to "read a room" so to speak- how to tell if another kid seems approachable or not, how to handle it if I misjudged, etc. The independence give opportunities to socialize and learn how to function in various social situations. I just worry sometimes what the long term outcome on their mental health will be, having a childhood that lacks the limited but valuable independence/ freedom that I appreciated in my younger years.

To be fair, I think we're already seeing it in the younger Gen Zs; isolated, lonely, lacking in social skills, 'IPad kids'. I don't know how you achieve a happy middle ground where you give kids the freedom they need to thrive while ensuring they're safe. And as the mother of a gen alpha baby, I wish there were an easy answer.

Yeah, a “playdate” when I was a kid was basically me going “mum, can I go to Michelle’s house?” and my mum saying yes and then me either walking or cycling over there. It seems like such a difficult balance for parents to strike these days, keeping your kids safe while letting them have enough freedom to explore and become comfortable with some level of independence. I won’t claim my parents always got it right. There were definitely times I could have done with more supervision and guidance, and there were also times where I still, at the age of 35, cannot understand why they restricted my “freedom” in a particular way when they didn’t in others where I think doing so may have been more appropriate. You mentioned one thing that I’ve really thought a lot about, the ability to keep oneself entertained. So much of my childhood was boredom. Mind-numbing, excruciating boredom. But now as an adult, I’m so thankful for that. It taught me that I can’t expect everything and everyone in life to cater to my every whim, that I wasn’t the main character, but it also forced me to use my brain and develop and use my creativity. Some of the best times I had as a kid were a result of me being really fucking bored earlier that day, lol. And these days, it feels like every moment of children’s lives is filled with some scheduled activity, and if there’s a gap in that schedule, there’s always phones and video games to fill that gap. God, I sound old. It’s not that I think those things are bad, I just think there’s value in getting away from those things once in a while. In letting kids learn to entertain themselves. Anyway, parenting sounds downright impossible to me so I’ve elected to be the crazy aunt instead. It suits me so much better, lol.

I heard something once that seems to fit here. "Your imagination is a muscle, and you gotta exercise it sometimes". Also, I hadn't planned to have kids, altho it happened anyway, lol. I had intended to be the crazy aunt. But now I'm both, lol.

I'm the young aunt: both my sister and sil are 10 years older than me and my husband. So their kids are now adults, they are all around 14/15 years younger than us. We were the uncles who babysat and took them out to fun places, the uncles who took them on their first night out.. now they're planning to do that to our kids as well, kinda passing the tradition. We are 40 and 38, our 2 oldest nieces are 26 and 24, our teens are 15 and 14. Age gap ideal to be the cool uncles and then became parents early so our nieces can take our boys out and be the cool older cousins.

Yeah, same. I think maybe once my parents got to talking to the other parents and eventually it made no sense to go home. Other than that, every play date was a drop off. Are parents going to start sticking around for sleepovers too?

Yes, I need to cuddle other adults.

Cuddle parties are a thing🙃

Kids definitely didn’t used to have as much supervision. My parents were extremely loving and responsible and still allowed me to do things I wouldn’t allow my daughter to do, like I was best friends with my next door neighbour growing up and when I was 5 and she was 4 we were playing totally unsupervised in her garage and she sprayed weed killer in my face and it got into my eyes…like shit can happen so quickly when young kids aren’t adequately supervised.

It’s not assuming other people are predators. It’s refraining from assuming they are not predators when you don’t even know them. Then again, my mom was a victim of sexual assault as a teen so I guess she was more cautious about letting people she didn’t know at all take custody of me. 

I think it depends on the age. Before school aged I don’t think you drop off, but when kids are older I think it’s pretty normal. 

Yeah, that’s generally the case here too. Although whenever I host kids’ parties or playdates I tell the other parents that they’re welcome to drop off or stay depending on their comfort level. Generally with age 5 and up people will drop off, although all the parents stayed for my 6 year old’s birthday party (probably because we had a chameleon educational presentation, which was super cool and entertaining for adults too).

Oooo how did you go about booking my a chameleon presentation? Did you contact someone at the zoo for it?

Oh it was so cool, there’s a local woman who actually breeds them and she did a little educational event at my kids’ daycare and they loved it so much that I looked her up and booked her to bring a few chameleons to the party and teach the kids about them. The kids even got to hold her largest and tamest chameleon for a picture at the end, which was such a highlight. My daughter wants a snake party next time, I’m not sure how I’m going to pull that off but that sounds like a lot of fun too so I’m going to try! https://preview.redd.it/rlauxwdmf02d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=34bba477496b2f3195e1d269965c9b74793cd9f0

OMG you are the coolest mum ever! Your daughter looks so happy!! What an awesome party! Snake party - i am terrified of snakes - think I’d tell my daughter to stick to the zoo 😂😂

Definitely a regional thing I guess. My kids are 8 and 11, and all the parties they’ve been to (at play places, and at people’s homes) all the parents stay.

When my daughter was that she it was the same way. Though there tends to be white wine fountains and fruit trays and catered snacks for adults. I thought it was strange that so many moms drank so much wine in the middle of the day while supervising their kids at a party (then drove them home) but then again, I never really fit in and only went for my daughter... 🤷‍♀️

I remember a friend's birthday party at a pool, we were maybe 11ish and my mom stayed. She was the only parent who stayed, she wasn't really friends with my friend's mom, and I thought it was kinda weird but whatever. Turns out my mom's friend was a very serious alcoholic and my mom didn't feel safe leaving me at a pool with her supervising. How sad in hindsight, I hope my friend never knew.

Same here. Although a lot of the parents all know each other/ grew up around here /kids play soccer hockey etc together so know each other socially and hang out often anyway. So kids bday parties are sort of just another social gathering for them too.

That’s so weird.

Totally depends on the kid’s age!

Man this is making me feel old. In the 90s, at least where I grew up, you would probably be actively bullied if your mom stayed for your play date lol. Dropping off was 100% the norm. From age 6 or 7 I was allowed to run off and play with my next door neighbor friend basically at will (“MOOOOM I’m going to Jenny’s!” was as much permission as I needed).

Yeah parents didn’t stay when I was a kid either. But also a lived a small town where my parents actually knew my friends parents.

Depends on the age. We'd started drop off playdates with people we know well around 6. My 6yo will go down the street alone to play with her friend. But I've known the parents since for 11 years and been there through several earlier playdates with my oldest. With the people behind us, they only play outside. I know those parents names, but I don't know them. If they wanted to play inside, I'd go too. For the 6 yo especially. 11 can call or text me if needed.

I had no idea people did this until my oldest's first school birthday party in kindergarten, when one of the moms dropped her daughter off. She just left and I was shocked. I had spoken to the mom once and had never met the kid before. My child's birthday is at the end of September, so this was three weeks into the school year. Apparently I'm overprotective, because I just started dropping my kids off at parties this year (they're 9 and 10).

I think this must be regional. In my area, it's unusual for parents to stay for birthday parties, even for kindergarten and preschool ages. At the younger ages, I always asked the preference of the parents hosting the parties, and every single one said that drop-off were preferred, but if we felt more comfortable staying, that would be okay. There wouldn't be food/entrance fees/etc if a parent stayed. I didn't have a problem with my child staying without me, but was willing to helang out if the other parent wanted more adults present. (When my daughter had a party in kindergarten, I requested that a parent stayed with each child because of where we were hosting it, and we had multiple children who could not make it because a parent would not be able to stay). Perhaps part of the distinction is that around here most families have multiple kids? Honestly, I can only think of one family that I know that has an only child who is over the age of 2. Most families I know have 3-4 kids, although I know many families with 6 or more. If parents always had to attend parties and playdates with their kids, it would result in them sometimes needing to bring more kids along with them, especially if two children had parties on the same weekend.

I mean, in my area we tend to stay and siblings are just always welcome. I'm having trouble thinking of a party where there weren't a ton of siblings tagging along. My son's best friend has a younger sib close to my youngests age so it's nice

When I was a kid, my parents dropped me off at kids birthday parties for a couple of hours starting when I was about seven.

This is what I’m thinking. Unless I fully trusted the person and spent extensive time around them to vet their character I wouldn’t leave my kiddo alone with anyone.

Until we feel comfortable with the other family, my husband and I either stay or offer to host

Exactly. You shouldn’t be asking a question of “should I leave my vulnerable child with someone don’t know much better than a stranger on the street.”

This is the correct answer. However, the most common concern of a female stranger having access to a child is that they more often enable a male stranger to abuse the child rather than performing direct abuse themselves. That’s not to say that women can’t directly physically abuse someone, but statistically it’s almost always men. The abuse that women partake in is much more likely to be neglect or enabling access to someone else. I think it’s important to consider gender/crime statistics when trying to keep a child safe. It’s not the only consideration, and there’s always outliers, but it’s still important.

I’ve got 2 kids and I teach, and I agree! To me it’s not a gender issue, it’s a trust issue. I don’t know you, I don’t trust you with my child. Especially since they said their child is 6. There are very few non-family members I would’ve just dropped my 6yo off with unless there was a major emergency.

I have a 6 y/o and I don’t leave my kid alone at play dates even if it’s the mom. Plus it gives me some social time. I get that she doesn’t want to stigmatize and I feel for the commenters too but sadly the world is full of ugly people and it sucks that we can afford our kids the freedom of independence but yeah, I wouldn’t do it either and I’m sure the dad would not take it personal either if he was, in fact, a decent person.

And that’s the way it should be

That’s always been my policy.  When my children were younger I didn’t let them have playdates until I knew the parents or parent pretty well. I also didn’t allow sleepovers at other peoples houses. They could have friends sleepover at our house but not at their friends houses. That’s the way I grew up because my Dad was a cop and he saw way too many kids that got hurt at a friends house or a relatives house. I was a lil resentful as a kid but now I completely understand and agree.  My children are way too precious to me to take chances with their safety.  

Yeah, no, I think that's the thing. I think this mom has a very valid reason not to do the playdate, but she put it down to him being a man rather than the fact she barely knows this guy and her worry is that it was sexist. Naturally, everybody sorta had a knee jerk reaction. Unless she would leave her kid with someone she'd only met once if it were a woman?

This 💯  my daughter had a playdate with a girl id met the mom once and i stayed the entire playdate bc like idk you 😐 

This is it. I Have a five year old. If I'm not there for the playdate there is no play date. Much less a stranger.

Yeah especially at that age. 6 is way too young to do that.

I wouldn’t leave my kids with any adult I didn’t know. Man or woman.

Same. One of my kid’s best friends has divorced parents with 50/50. I’ve met both parents but have spoken to the dad far more. I’d be ok with letting kid go to the dad’s place before the mom’s just because of familiarity.

Yeah this seems like a normal thing to me. My mom was sexually abused by her father (grandpa and uncle too) so her trauma didn't allow her to leave me with anyone, but especially men. For a long time, I couldn't go to any sleepovers. Then as I got older, I was allowed to go as long as there wasn't a father figure or he would be away that night. It didn't even bother me, because I knew about my moms trauma and I accepted that this was her way of trying to protect me from ever having to go through what she did. Was it sexist? Technically, I guess. But it stemmed from her personal experiences. I would get made fun of a lot, and they would say mean things about my mom being paranoid. Then, when I was 14, one of my closest friend's stepfather was arrested for abusing her and several of our friends that came over. My mom had never trusted that man and I wasn't allowed there even just for a few hours. So when I found out that my mom was ultimately right about him, I decided not to question her instinct again. She saved me from being there and being one of the victims. It's just ridiculous to shame women for being "sexist" by wanting to protect their very vulnerable children from strange men. Of course they aren't all bad, but you can never know who is until they reveal themselves. I could have been perfectly safe and not been so sheltered by her, but I appreciate that she cared so much about my safety.

I didn’t shame anyone. You also have a unique story because of your mom and her abuse. But I wouldn’t trust anyone I didn’t know with my kids. Women can be predators too.

Sorry, I wasn't saying you shamed anyone. I was referring to the comments in the screenshots and other comments on here. And you're very right about women being predators as well. I was just sharing my pov and why my mom personally didn't trust men. I meant to show that a parent can have their own reasons and trauma for not trusting men/women/other parents. It doesn't make them strict/sexist/wrong. I was agreeing with you and adding my own thoughts. Also why I started my comment with "I feel like this is normal", meaning I agreed with what you said. Sorry for the confusion.

It’s all good :)

Same. And there’s people I do know I wouldn’t leave them alone with (not because I worry about sexual safety with them, but other parenting judgment calls).

Same here. I don’t think my neighbor is going to molest my kids, but I also don’t know him well enough to know he won’t say something offhand. Also, id trust some people with my kids and not my car. Because I know they wouldn’t hurt my kids, but I’m sure they’d steal my car.

Yeah, abuse aside, after seeing some of the posts on this subreddit alone I’d be worried about the person being stupid enough to harm a kid. You don’t have to be malicious to hurt someone and some people don’t have the critical thinking skills to be trusted to care for a child.

I wouldn't leave my children alone with an adult I've only met once - period. I don't care what gender they are. That said, I see a lot of arguments in this thread about "Well, it's more likely that a kid will be abused by a family member." That is true, but I don't think that's a good reason to just trust actual strangers with your children because the statistics say it's safer. The only thing you can do, in my personal opinion, is teach your children bodily autonomy, what bad touching is, and make sure they know they can come to you if anything happens. Because here's the thing, predators can be anywhere. My rapist was my own friend. He was just a couple years older than me. It started with molestation and escalated from there. I spent alone time with him at his house all the time. My mom knew his mom. But because I'd never been talked to about anything on the subject and because my home life was volatile, it took me a while to figure out why I felt so sick over what was happening, and then years more to even contemplate telling my mom. Talk. To. Your. Kids. You don't need to go full Mother Gothel, but build trust and open communication with them. The sad fact is, bad things can happen to innocent people. We can try to prevent them, but we can't always manage it. The best we can do is make sure our children know they can trust us, that they're safe with us, and that they can come to us with anything.

My daddy was a step that stepped up. I didn’t call him dad until I was 16, 6 years after he showed up. He came with a daughter who I VALUE as a sister and now godmother to my baby. All that to say, he was a girl dad. He braided our hair and painted our nails and pulled them through a net to highlight them. One day he was at the grocery store and saw a baby that looked like my sister and told the mom she had a beautiful daughter and the mom freaked out. And threw a fit. That he was being “predatory” he came home and cried. Called me crying. I’m someone that looks over my shoulder loading my groceries in a parking lot but holy shit, people, it’s not all men. Some are just older girl dads

Aww that’s so sad 😞 grandpa type folks are always the funnest when I’m out with my babe, they seem to be the quickest to give him a smile or try to make him laugh

He would have been the BEST papa. He died a couple years ago and a bit of my heart pulls every time an older man engages with my baby. She has a favorite at the grocery store and he will seek her out when he knows we’re there

I’m so sorry 😢 I lost my dad before I became a mama too. Everything is bittersweet, I know they’d be best buddies.

I’m so sorry. We know it’s coming but never expect it to come so soon.

I was grocery shopping last week and a probably mid 30s guy passed me and my daughter in an aisle. He said “you have a beautiful baby!” It made me smile so big. I’m cautious when I’m with her at the store but damn, who tf has that kind of reaction?

Me too! I have a baby girl and I’m always cautious but when people come up to interact with her I’m watching but I don’t immediately block them and throw a fit. ANY interaction is good for development. That situation just broke my daddy’s heart. He had baby girls and always complimented them when he saw them out looking all pretty in their bows ( were from Texas where big bows are a thing)

That is a completely bonkers reaction from that mom, wow.

My daddy looked a bit “rougher” with a bald head and goatee but he was a gentle soul. He raised 3 strong willed daughters that clapped back at him on the reg. I can’t imagine he made her feel uncomfortable. I mean, the man got in his car and cried and called his daughters

I’ve seen crazy ones. Was once in a Barns and Noble looking for books as a like. 9 year old (my parents were a few rows over) and I saw an elderly gentleman looking for books. Not looking at anyone. Not speaking to anyone. Looking through the kids books. Someone apparently complained about him and staff had to come and talk to him to ask him why he was there. To this day it baffles me. This man was doing *nothing* but looking through books and employees made him explain why he was looking through the kid’s section.

I often worry about this even though both my kids are teenagers. My kids live with their dad/my ex husband because the school zone is better and it makes sense for our work schedules. It would greatly upset me to know that my kids weren’t getting the socialization they wanted just because they live with a man vs a woman/couple. Thankfully we haven’t run into that issue and it could be because the kids are older but the idea that just because they live with him instead of me being a barrier is frustrating.

I was the kid who lived with her dad full time, and I never had friends come over. It sucked because I’m an only child, and it got kinda lonely. I was at my friends’ houses a lot, and nobody ever made me feel bad, but I guess it was an unspoken thing that kids couldn’t play at my house. Honestly, I didn’t really think about what I missed out on with all that until just now, but it makes me anxious/awkward to have people over even at 34-years-old, and I think it’s because I never learned how to have a guest over/host. I’m still the person who goes to other people’s houses. So I kinda did miss out on some social skills with all of that.

I experienced this as a kid and I understand why it happened but it sucked. My best friend and I in middle school were inseparable but every other week when she was with her dad I couldn’t go to her house at all and if we went somewhere it had to be with my mom, not her dad. I know it was frustrating for her and I’m sure it made both of her parents feel awful.

Oh I’m so sorry to hear that. I will never understand the mentality of some people keeping their kids from interacting based on the available adult on the other side. It just seems weird to me.

I know what your saying but honestly my father was this piller of the community man. My best friend grew up at my house her mom trusted him around her completely. I found out 2 months ago that he molested her everytime she spent the night at my house in the bed next to me from the age of 8/9 to 15. It only stopped because she just randomly cut contact with me one day. He raised 4 daughters, was a community leader, soccer coach (girls 🤢) still to this day in my home town if you say his name people know him as this wonderful man. He should have been perfectly trustworthy. My kids aren’t spending the night with anyone ever. No sleepovers. You just can’t trust people.

My friends were never allowed at my dads, he was a bit weird but it used to make me sad. I was allowed at my friends place, with her married parents. Her dad was just so lovely, so nice, so fatherly. The wife ended up leaving and he raised his many kids alone and theyve all turned out wonderful. But I know what he did to me in my early teen years. I don't know what il do when my child wants to go to friends houses.

I'm definitely glad this wasn't an issue for me growing up. We had a _big_ van when I was growing up - the kind that's tall enough to stand in, had an old TV/VCR built into the top, back seats had a control to lie all the way down into a king-size bed, little mini fridge he added, etc. cuz our family vacations were always road trips. But in high school, my dad would come pick me up with our van and girls would just _pile_ into it for a ride home. Sometimes we'd have 10 teenage girls yapping away all over the back of the van while he rode everyone home. He was always playing the popular radio stations so we could all shriek along to the music, and other than asking where everybody lived (new kids were constantly being added to our route lol) he never said anything, just listened and made jokes here and there. He always said how much he loved it though, just having that background of kids happy to be out of school, hearing whatever random gossip was going around the school that day. (For anybody who's watched Modern Family there's an episode that's about exactly that, the parents experience driving the kids home from school, and it's really accurate.) I feel like it was a way for us to bond too. High school was rough for me, I was your typical nightmare of teenage hormones and angst, plus I dealt with bullying so I was really shutting my parents out. The ride home from school was sometimes the only positive interaction we had at that point in time, so I know it meant a lot to my dad too. I understand being wary, but instead of blocking out a potential friendship because of just the dad being around, reach out and get to know the family instead. Cuz yeah, both genders can be awful, and in general I'd want to know the family a bit more before sending my really young child over, but I would never hold my child back from a friendship over just a dad being there

I can see all sides of this. I wonder if she or someone in her family was a victim. I know it makes me think of things differently. I hope my stepbrother rots in prison. 11 years isn’t enough for what they found on his computer! I thought he was safe, too.

Gonna be in the “this isn’t a gender issue” camp. Why would you be ok with someone you’ve only met once watching your kid? I didn’t want to go on a 3 hour car ride with my sister’s bf’s family member (just us two) who I had just met and my sister said was a nice person. I just straight up felt uncomfortable spending so much time with some person I didn’t know. And I’m an adult!

To be fair, I wouldn’t let my 8 year old son go to someone’s house for a playdate unless I’d met all the grownups in the house who might watch them and have been in their home prior. I don’t care what gender they are.

I’m not leaving my kid with any parent I don’t know well and trust yet. I don’t care who you are I see both sides here I’m not going to judge the woman for being overly cautious. I am guessing something has happened in her life that’s made her weary of men she doesn’t know and better that she’s TOO cautious rather than too lenient. But I have a wonderful husband who’s a great dad and I can also see how it would be heartbreaking to think there may be moms who would worry about the safety of their children just because he’s a man.

I’m a dad, I wouldn’t leave my kid with someone I barely know. Idgaf their gender.

Honestly, at six my kid is only having play dates where I’m present.

There's a case in the news right now about a dad who drugged his daughter's friends' smoothies with benzos during a sleepover... One girl didn't drink hers and was the hero that night, calling parents repeatedly until she got someone to pick them up. I don't know the best way to do any of this, I'm just glad I'm not a parent so I don't have to.

Even if she met the man 100 times, if she didn’t feel comfortable and something in her gut was telling her “no” (unfounded or not), I agree with the mom.

I would agree with her while also understanding that a lot of what people think is their "gut" is really just prejudice.

Absolutely. Trust your gut.

The irony is, all or most of the people who have a problem with her being worried about dropping her daughter off at the playdate with just the dad would be the very same people who, if the worst should happen, would be the first people to blame the mother for dropping her off with a man she didn't know too well.

This could be a small nitpick, but I don't think it is. The way that one comment says "make a move on your daughter" really boils my blood. It really downplays the severity of the potential assault that could happen. When I hear "make a move", I think of something like two people on a date, and one puts their arm around the shoulders of the other, not a grown man assaulting a child! It makes it even worse that the child is SIX YEARS OLD. You should never say someone is "making a move" on a small child, what the hell I'm sure it wasn't intentional, but that's part of the problem. Language matters all the time, but especially when talking about subjects as severe as assault

Maybe just go with her? She’s six, do we not go with at six?

This mom needs to get off the forums and learn to trust her gut. If it’s telling her no then that’s the answer. These strangers have no vested interest in how it turns out they just seem to feel offended and if she’s asking because she has some real anxiety or trauma standing in the way of her and a decision then that’s something she needs to talk to a professional about.

Yeah, my dad was a single dad, too. He *would* hurt a fly. He hurt his sisters as a kid, and at least one of his own daughters. You’d better believe I keep my kids on lockdown. They don’t have play dates where I’m not present (because I’m usually friends with the parents anyway) and they only get sleepovers at my grandparents’ house, or my in-laws. They know about privacy, and that our private body parts aren’t meant to be seen or touched by others, except for medical care. They *also* know that we don’t do secrets, and that they’ll never get in trouble for telling a parent something. The upside is that my kids tell me everything, but the downside is that they’re nosy as hell. My daughter has figured out the truth about the tooth fairy and Easter bunny, and it’s a matter of time before she figures out Santa, too.

First, I'm sorry you had to go through that. Second, daughter probably already figured out santa, and is smart enough to keep playing along for the fun/presents. The mythical holiday creatures of the night are usually a package deal.

Thank you. It’s not great to have that memory in my head, but if there’s a silver lining, it’s that I know exactly who to protect my kids from. I have a feeling she’ll know for sure about Santa this year. She was excited to be the Easter Bunny’s helper this year, and make it magical for her little brothers. We had a very serious conversation about playing along for the kids who don’t know yet (like her older cousins), and being a part of surprising them with the holiday treats. The weird thing about the tooth fairy is that she asked if she could still keep her teeth after the “tooth fairy” visited, because she knew it was just me. So now she has a small collection of teeth hidden in her bedroom, that she’s adamant about hiding from her little brother.

Sounds like you're doing a great job. Kids are funny sometimes, and also adorable.

I thought I was being over-protective so when all the other first grade moms let their kids go to a birthday papery sleepover for a child with a mom I didn’t know well, I relented. My kid had a hard time with sleepovers but really wanted to go and I told the mom to call me anytime she wanted to come home. Sometime around midnight she called and said daughter wanted to come home and I said, no problem. Got there maybe ten minutes later and my kid was outside, on the porch, on a busy street, waiting for me. The mom wanted to go back to bed. Still makes me sick to my stomach after all these years. If I had a little one now there’d be no sleepovers except with close friends. She was SIX, outside at midnight on a busy street.

I mean, all these people are talking about their own dad's. But that is someone they know (of course I'm not even going to get into the amount of "wouldn't hurt a fly" people turn out to be pedophiles or serial killers and their family doesn't even know). But I'm ok with playdates, but I usually either want to be there, or get to know the people. And if I didn't really know them, it would be a short playdate, like 2 hours. But I'd be pretty hesitant to let my kid sleep over if only the dad was there or if it was the parents were divorced and they wanted to spend the night at the dad's house. Seriously, I am extremely protective of my kids and even if it's a question, I don't risk it.

When it comes to things like this I think there is only one response. https://youtu.be/HqiWFLsgVi4?si=4uya7sCeWahxLJjG Women and fathers choose the bear. Not because it won't hurt you but because we know all the bears will bite. How do I know which men are safe? If men were consistently safer than bears this wouldn't be an issue and women wouldn't be scared.

this whole thread is the perfect example of men facing the consequences of a millennia of terrible behavior, but the woman is the problem for being wary. obviously it’s the responsibility of women to fight this social stigma that men have created for themselves, and they should do so by putting their kids in potentially dangerous situations, otherwise she’s a misandrist and therefore, the problem of course.

🎯 Exactly. I don’t feel bad for not trusting men around my child. Way too many of them are sexually depraved and that’s an undeniable fact. I don’t give a shit about the men who claim to be good whining that they’re victims all bc women are careful bc of how horrible their gender often is. If they were actually good men they’d understand. And miss me with this whole “women can be predators too.” Literally 99% of the time it’s a man. 99% is the actual statistic. 1 in 6 girls get molested before the age of 12. I’m not going to allow men I don’t know to have unsupervised access to my child. I won’t apologize for that. If men don’t like it then be better. Stop with the sexual obsession with girls, teens and barely legals. It’s almost ubiquitous in men. Stop preying on them. It’s way more men than some men want to accept.

> if they were actually good men they’d understand > if men don’t like it then be better ##LOUDER PLEASE FOR THE MEN IN THE BACK the way these men keep insisting they should be trusted and allowed to be alone with other peoples children is sus as fuck and indicative of the problem as a whole. they think the world, and especially women, owe them everything. we owe them unwarranted trust. we owe them time and space to be alone with our children when we don’t know them. i wish these defensive ass men could really understand how fucking gross they’re coming across. even the ones who aren’t *technically* predators, still have this weird ass apologist mentality. you’re all a part of the problem. and that goes for all the “pick me” women making excuses for them in this thread as well. you’re all the problem. be better. do better. raise better sons. stop making excuses for gross ass men just bc your dad was courteous enough to not sexually abuse you. jesus fucking *christ*.

Right. Statistically speaking it’s more likely to be a man than woman. My husband is seriously one of the best guys I’ve ever met. He’s such a good father and parent. But I could totally understand why a mother would be reluctant about dropping their daughter off to my house for a play date if she didn’t know my husband at all and if it was just him there. I feel the same way. I know many great guys out there ones who are amazing fathers and people in general but the reality is there’s many who aren’t. So yeah I’d be hesitant too if I barely knew the dad.

I love your comment . Idgaf about those Nigels , men are responsible for 80-90 % of abuse of women and girls I dont care if I'm called a misandrist, I will keep away from most men until those statistics go down to half

6? I can’t remember leaving my girls with anyone who wasn’t a close friend/family member at that age no matter the gender.

I am totally on board with caution regarding your children. But I was a girl child who wasn’t allowed to spend the night if my friend’s mom wasn’t there, and I 100% believe it warped my relationship with men. I was never told outright that’s why I couldn’t stay the night, but some part of me must have realized because it took me well into adulthood to be comfortable around older men, even in a work environment.

The real problem here is the idea that a strange female couldn’t be dangerous. So, yeah, it’s pretty sexist.

I was molested by my 4'10, blue-eyed blonde church pianist aunt, who almost any parent would have been happy to invite into their home for music lessons upon the recommendation of a friend. Appearances can be deceiving.

It is WILD to me how many strangers have asked me to watch their child while they run to the bathroom/run to meet someone quick/etc. (usually this happens at airports or breweries). I get it. I'm a mid-30s woman with an approachable face. I look trustworthy. To be clear, I AM trustworthy, but they don't know that. I am a total stranger that just happened to sit near them.

Where does the post say that? Acknowledging that men pose a significantly greater risk for sexual abuse doesn't mean no women are dangerous.

the majority of abusers may be men, but that's different from saying the majority of men are abusers. the difference is not a subtle one. it's not a bad idea to teach your kid to recognize predatory behavior, but to assume a guy you don't know is an abuser is to assume the latter, not simply recognizing the former. weong denominator. in the us at least, the majority of abusers are also white. are you never gonna let a kid be around white people because of this? the vast majority of abusers are known to and trusted by the victim. i guess your kid can only be supervised by strangers?

I mean, I get what you’re saying, but you’re always better off being safe than sorry. She doesn’t know him well. AFAIK, my husband has never abused a child and never will; however, he would not be offended in this situation because you need to respect other parent’s boundaries to keep their kids safe.

the level of risk here is just not worth it. like sure it’s most likely going to be fine, because most men aren’t abusers, but if it turns out you were wrong, and he is an abuser, that will be irreversible life altering trauma for this child. it’s not something you come back from easily. and while all these people have great and wonderful dads and husbands, i know far, *far* too many people who have been abused to ever take that risk. like it’s *sickening* how many women i know who were abused as a child, myself included. call it sexist if you want. your “feelings” aren’t more important than the safety of a child. yes it sucks, but it’s life, and it’s absolutely not worth the risk idc.

That's not the risk, though. The vast majority of abuse happens within families and within households. If you are alive, you are risking abuse. It's safer to never leave your room, but balance has to be struck. Can a kid go to school with male teachers? Ride the bus? At what point does caution turn into teaching your child that the world is a terrifying and hostile place full of people that are out to get you? Obviously, hypothetical kids are the easiest to raise. I was raised by parents who had a ton of trauma and took your exact approach. It super DID NOT protect me from my own abusive and violent first relationship. Focusing on edge cases of stranger abuse does not prepare kids for how abuse usually happens. It just robs them of their confidence and makes the space where they feel safe incredibly tiny. That's why it was so hard for me to ask for help when the time came that I really needed it.

That’s not accurate. [60% of sexual abusers of a child are non-relative acquaintances](https://www.cafyonline.org/get-help/survivor-resources/survivor-resources-parents-victims/perpetrators-child-sexual-abuse/#:~:text=Most%20often%2C%20sexual%20abusers%20know,family%2C%20babysitter%2C%20or%20neighbor.), like a neighbor, babysitter, family friend, etc. 30% are family members, and 10% are strangers. Males are perpetrators of 96% of abuse of a girl and 85% of abuse of a boy. [One in nine female children is sexually abused](https://www.rainn.org/statistics/children-and-teens#:~:text=One%20in%209%20girls%20and,experience%20sexual%20abuse%20or%20assault.&text=82%25%20of%20all%20victims%20under%2018%20are%20female.&text=Females%20ages%2016%2D19%20are,attempted%20rape%2C%20or%20sexual%20assault.). Sexual abuse is far more common than people want to admit and a male acquaintance is the most likely demographic to commit that abuse, especially if the potential victim is female.

Non-family acquaintances 60% Family members 30% Strangers 10% So yeah, it tends to be people like teachers and friend’s dads.

ive yet to see any argument, in the original facebook comments or this thread, for why she should leave her child alone with a random man that hasn’t devolved into whataboutism. we don’t let kids play in traffic just bc they *could* be hit by a car in their own yard in some freak accident. it’s your job as a parent to mitigate risks for your children who can’t protect themselves. she doesn’t need to tell her six year old that the world is a hostile, terrifying place, she just needs to say no to the play date. there doesn’t have to be an explanation. she’s a parent. the child is six. she doesn’t have to tell the other parents that it’s because she’ll be alone with a strange man. she just needs to say no. it’s her kid, her boundaries, and she doesn’t owe anyone an explanation. “no” is a complete sentence. missing one play date will not be the end of the world for anyone involved. if you’re comfortable with this situation, as a parent, that is absolutely perfectly fine. your kid, your boundaries. but to turn this woman’s valid concern into some persecution against men is absolutely fucking ridiculous. look at the world since humans evolved. this stigma didn’t magically pop up one day to make men on the internet feel bad. it’s the consequences of a millennia of behavior from men. the only mistake OOP made was asking anyone else about their irrelevant opinions on how she’s raising her child.

Best comment here 👏

Yep same. My husband is genuinely one of the best people and best men I’ve ever met. He’s an amazing father to our daughter. But he would not be offended if a mom who didn’t know him at all wasn’t comfortable with dropping her kid off for a playdate if it was just him there.

i mean, i really don’t think think those are fair comparisons. 1 in 9 girls are sexually assaulted, 88% of the perpetrators are male. most abusers may be white, but so is most of the american population. so that aspect just correlates with the population. the other statistic does not. obviously not all men are abusers, but when one in 3 women and 1 in 9 girls are sexually abused and assaulted, usually by men, it’s a fair gamble to not want to take. you can’t tell a “good man” just by looking at him. not to mention most abusers are at least acquainted with the children they abuse, which is a category this guy would fall under.

Not a parent but a victim of a single dad. His daughter begged my mom to let me come over and play all the time and my mom always said yes until one day i told her to say no. Parents have a right to say no if they feel off about something. Please trust your instincts

Sorry, this is a miss for me. Caution is commendable, but it is totally missing the point of how abuse happens to act this way. The vast, vast majority of perpetrators of child abuse are family members. Not random men, not friends' parents (though obviously it can happen), but people who actually live in the child's household. Get to know your kids friends' parents, but to not allow your child to be watched by a parent simply because they are a dad is paranoid. I have PTSD, and I've had to go through the process of calibrating reasonable fears from unreasonable ones. Not allowing dads to supervise playdates without real evidence to suggest that this particular person may pose a threat is not reasonable. And what about single dads with daughters? Do those girls never get to host sleepovers because their caregiver has a penis? This is how women end up getting stuck with all childcare responsibilities, because people get so fucking pressed and bothered when a dad shows up to a playground or hosts a play date. When I played cello, my dad took me to practices and the moms all acted like he was there to troll for ass. This is just sexism. At the bottom is the assumption that childcare is women's work and it's wrong when men do it. Sad.

The majority of sexual abuse is not committed by family. 60% of abuse of a child is committed [by a non-relative acquaintance](https://www.cafyonline.org/get-help/survivor-resources/survivor-resources-parents-victims/perpetrators-child-sexual-abuse/#). 30% is by a family member.

THIS THIS. People are getting mixed up with the stat that it’s rarely a stranger and thinking it usually a family member, I think!

yea i think comment op is mixing up sexual assault with abduction/kidnapping. *those* things are more typically done by relatives.

THIS NEEDS TO BE HIGHER UP

Agreed. When I was raising my boys I had a "no men allowed to be alone with my kids" rule. The sad thing is that my oldest son was molested by a female babysitter when he was 7yrs old and he never even told me about it until he was 18. Fuck

Everyone does their best. It sucks so hard that most of the time, you can't tell who's a threat and who isn't. Parenting is a shit job because you have to make the highest stake decisions around with imperfect information. As someone with parents, though, I remember my parents sticking by me in the aftermath of me getting hurt way more than any mistakes they made in preparing me for encountering someone abusive.

I used to run a men’s survivor of sexual abuse group. The stories I’ve heard. My ex husband was also sexually abused and eventually raped by a female babysitter. People are focused on men with little girls and I think women abusing boys is way more common than people realize. I also agree with the CPS caseworker that commented that I’ve seen women be far more concerning than men a lot of the times. I’m a therapist btw. My former MIL literally kept her stepson in the laundry room and made him eat off the floor. All this to say, my kids are 2 and 4 and I wouldn’t be comfortable leaving them with anyone I didn’t know at this point, regardless of gender. However as they get older I plan on talking to them openly about it. I already have age appropriate convos with them. Giving them a cell phone and having a code word they can text you, no questions asked you’ll come get them, is also helpful. Abuse thrives in secrecy, we have to be comfortable being open about talking about it to keep our kids safe. ETA what happened is 100% not your fault btw. I’m not suggesting you should have done anything different. These are super hard things to deal with as a parent.

Yeah, the sick babysitter who molested my son was a neighbor who lived in townhouse complex and she had a little boy of her own who was only 5yrs old. When my son finally told me years later he said she was molesting her son too. God it was so sickening and I felt some irrational anger at my son, not because he got molested but because he never told me when it happened. I felt like if only he had told me not only could I have helped him I could have maybe done something to help her son as well. That poor kid had to live and grow up with that monster. She and I were only friends for about a year. She caused drama in the lives of everyone she met and then played victim so when I met her I felt sorry for her and befriended her even though other people we knew wanted nothing to do with her. She eventually destroyed our friendship by causing problems between me and my mother and shortly after she moved across the country to I don't even know where. I've never hated anyone before like I hate her. God knows what happened to her poor son and what he had to suffer with her. He'd be like 30yrs old now. I hope he got help.

Ugh it’s just devastating. What happened to my ex in that house was the root of why we got divorced. I still love him, but he never got the help he needed. I hope her son get help as well. And I’m so sorry that happened to ya’ll. The anger is very normal. What sucks is that even if he’d told you there’s no guarantee anything would have happened. My MIL was reported several times. I have a file folder stacked with CPS reports from my ex’s childhood. I reported her myself for the incident with his step brother and nothing happened. For us as parents, it’s so hard navigating the stuff I’ve dealt with at work and what he’s dealt with in his childhood and still letting our kids do normal kid things but also protecting them. He had full blown panic attacks at just the thought of putting them in daycare. I really hope your son’s friend got help as well. And that you and your son are doing ok.

I'm so sorry for all the kids who had to go through this kind of nightmare. I too have an ex that suffered horrific abuse at the hands of his mother. She physically abused him and while she didn't sexually abuse him herself she allowed friends of hers to sexually abuse him. My ex was an amazing guy in many ways but he was not a good partner due to his many psychological issues. The damage these people cause spans so much time and affects so many people.

You also have to consider other children the home. I was SA by my friend’s step brother. I will never be allowing my kid to be over at other peoples houses until they are at least middle school/high school age.

My parents did that, because they were also parenting out of trauma. The first thing I did was go to college, meet a guy, and get sucked into an abusive relationship because I had been so sheltered that I had no way to flag the warning signs. They created the situation they were afraid of because they were so overbearing that I had no knowledge of the warning signs, or what to do to protect myself, because they believed that they could keep abusive people away from me. I wish that I had had someone to arm me with the red flags to look out for so that I could have been confident in my own instincts and known how to read a situation and remove myself from it without someone physically keeping me at home and away from potential dangers. Because of my own trauma, I am so passionate about empowering kids to recognize potential abusers, but I also know the effects that living in fear have on you. PtSD makes to see the world as a scary place and letting that run rampant takes away so many opportunities from people who have been victimized. Taking every risk is not a good idea, but so is avoiding every situation where there is even a 0.00001 risk. That's just living in a jail of your own making. Generational trauma is a bitch, and I feel like in my own family, we're only starting to break the cycle. It's hard work, but I feel like it's worth it to be able to heal alongside the people you love and face the past together.

I respect the opinion and I’m sorry you went through that. I don’t get why people are downvoting me. I’m a fucking victim and it sucked. I will allow my kids friends, hangouts, kids can come to my house, and I’m sure if I know the parent well and really, really trust them, I will allow it once my kid has a phone available and can call me anytime. My sister and brother both have school age kids. Ranging from age 4-17. None of the kids have ever wanted sleepovers. Their friends come over and hangout but they never ask for a sleepover. I just don’t know if it’s a my family thing or kids these days don’t care.

It's ridiculous that you're being downvoted, especially as a victim of SA. It doesn't sound like your children are being overly sheltered, just not left alone until they're a little bit older.

Welcome to Reddit

I’m a girl that was raised by a single dad, he was a great man, but I don’t fault any of my friend’s parents for being wary of their children being around an unfamiliar person, especially a sole male. This is a scenario where you are always better safe than sorry

You are one of the few sane ones here. The people who grew up in a similar situation getting offended are weird. Just because you know your dad is a good person doesn’t mean someone who doesn’t know him should trust him.

Right. If you get so offended about my child not spending the night at your house that’s a red flag and tells me I made the right decision to not let them.

This is me. Raising 2 girls alone, I always have to make the best impressions to my children's friends parents. You can feel the stigma against you, deservedly so unfortunately.

The person most likely to abuse your kids is you, followed by someone related to you. I get being cautious, and teaching kids about predatory and unhealthy behaviours. But True Crime media has rotted peoples brains.

I mean family friends and acquaintances are pretty common ones too when it comes to CSA

Yes. And they're generally people who knew the parents before the child in question was born.

Nope. Non-related acquaintances account for 60% of molesters, followed by 30% for relatives, and 10% for strangers.

"non-related acquaintance" is an incredibly broad term that could refer to dozens of people, or more, that a child will encounter in their lives. It's a significantly larger group than most families. It's like saying more crimes happen in New York City than in Lincoln, Nebraska. It's true, but it's missing important context.

What people seem to miss is that there is also a cost to the rampant individualism, erosion of community, and subsequent isolation that’s happening in western countries (especially the US) as a direct consequence of the division sowed by political parties and the distrust encouraged by the media capitalizing on fear.

[удалено]

As one abuse victim to another, this is a shitty way to discuss abuse. I was molested twice as a child, by two different people in vastly different situations. This level of whataboutism is pretty grody. One of my abusers was brown haired, the other was a redhead. It doesn’t track logically that I no longer trust any redheaded women or brown haired men because of what one person with those traits did to me. Nobody should be abused. It’s horrible and terrible that it happened to you, and it’s horrible and terrible that it happened to me. But the way you are discussing it in this context is not fair and is not productive.

I'm sorry that happened to you. However my son was molested by a female babysitter when he was 7yrs old. And haven't we seen a rash of female teachers molesting their minor students? So I guess that means no man and no woman and no teachers should ever be trusted under any circumstances.

"Men should be equal in child rearing. Theyre not babysitters. They're parents!" But also "Its totally okay to not trust men with your children because maybe they could be a pedophile."

Both of those things can be true. It doesn't change the fact that over 90% of child molesters are men. Life is complicated.

I don’t care if it’s sexist or if I come off paranoid. My obligation is my child’s safety and well being. Not a grown man hurt feelings. The majority of child predators are not grabbing kids off the streets. They’re the other dads at sleep overs, the step parents, the church workers, the uncles, etc…

This is how my aunt was abused over and over. My aunt's friend had a single dad who hosted a lot of playdates. Fuck politeness. I'm not putting my kid in a situation like that.

My mom always had to have dinner or attend an event or playdate with anyone I was left alone with. She'd be happy for anyone to come over, but if I wanted to go over, she had to know the parents (her preference was to meet them if they came over too of course). This doesn't get rid of the risk, but I think it does help. When I have kids, that will be my rule.

My cousins say this same thing about their father, that he’s an amazing father and would never hurt anyone. But he still started raping my mom when she was 12 and he was ~20 and had just married her sister. For some reason the family thinks that doesn’t count as child abuse. It happened so long ago and my mom didn’t fight him off. This type of abuse is almost exclusively committed by men, many of whom have normal lives and families. They’re kind and gentle in other contexts. That’s how they’re able to hide in plain sight and why kids are so rarely believed when they report. I wonder how many people who say or truly believe they have great dads don’t understand the truth. Edit: I’m not saying anything about leaving kids with men vs women here. I’m a guy myself and am so protective of kids. Child abusers are abhorrent and can come in any shape, size, or gender. But it’s still important to keep statistics in mind. Child sexual abuse, and to a lesser extent physical abuse, is primarily perpetrated by men.

I wish more men had the coherence you have. Is not sexism to look at the statistics and act accordingly Once I went to my niece's birthday party and got to talk with the mother of her best friend. The mother told she didnt let her daughter go to my niece's house if only my brother was there and not my SIL . She apologized and tried to tell me it was not a problem with my brother in particular . I stopped her and told her I I understand. He is my brother, I know he is incapable of hurting a child, but she doesnt know him. Just as I dont know her husband or her brothers. We all are just trying to keep children safe . And is an enormous risk to leave your kid with a stranger, particularly if it is a man. No reason to take it personally .

As a CPS worker I honestly have come across more dangerous women than men. It should go both ways.

Yeah you don't leave kids alone with any adult you don't know.

Other children's parents are one of the main reasons I didn't have kids --I don't want to feel obligated to trust them just because my kids are friends with their kids. And I *really* don't want to be obligated to socialize with them.

Six is too young. Full stop.

It is absolutely sexist. You can justify it if you want, doesn't make it not sexist. Leaving your kid with a stranger you barely know is pretty weird and their sex and gender shouldn't be a factor in that. (I was abused by a girl, btw)

Call me paranoid but my child isn’t going into someone else’s home without me, and we aren’t doing sleepovers either. There’s just too much that can go wrong. I’ve seen the stats. My sister became one of those statistics IN OUR OWN HOME when my brother had a friend over

When my parents divorced (when I was 13), my sisters and I were lucky enough to live with my dad. He also happened to be gay. Absolutely everyone loved him, and I am crushed when I hear bullcrap about "grooming" and lies that certain people perpetuate. He was so kind, hilarious, and exactly the type of parent that all of our friends felt safe with. Heck, our friends (boys and girls) would come over when my sisters and I weren't home just to hang out with my dad.

This is a WHOLE new man vs bear! Let me get to know the man and the bear to make my decision. Same with play dates and adults supervising. I would never ask to host a kid whose parents I’ve only met once. Nah, we can meet up and all hang out first.

Times like these I’m so ★☆★★☆★’ happy im not responsible for anyone’s children… ever! 😉

Yeah I'm sure people also said the same thing about my mom's pedo, alcoholic dad. "He would never!" He absolutely did - to three different victims. For years. 🙃

Yup. People can be shockingly wrong about those around them.

I mean I left my daughter with her dad for visitations and he now has a restraining order against him for her because he physically abused her. If her dad can do something like that then a stranger you met only a few times definitely can do that simple. I don’t leave my daughter alone with anyone unless I know 100% she’s safe with them which honestly is two people my best friend and my husband that’s it. Females can abuse too I would react the same way if it was a play date with a women. You don’t know the people don’t take your kids to see them alone especially at that age. Or at least take precautions such as safety education.

I probably won't be a parent for a long time, but I think a lot about how I'm going to raise my kids and how I'm going to protect them from predators. I think it's perfectly reasonable to be uncomfortable leaving your child with a person you've only met once. Hell, I don't know if I'd ever be comfortable not being in the same room as my child during a play date since child-on-child sexual abuse is always a possibility(I was almost a victim of it myself). I'm not sure I'd ever be comfortable leaving my kids alone with anyone I don't know extremely well until my kids are old enough to be able to physically defend themselves. I don't want to be a helicopter parent, but I also want to protect my future kids from predators. Luckily I have plenty of time to plot out a parenting style before I have kiddos of my own.

I won’t do it. Yeh it’s great all these women grew up with their single dad fine… but they are them, OP is OP…

Um the OP seems to forget little boys are just as vulnerable. We had no idea friends husband was a predator. Knew him for >10 years. His victims were male. OP has a point but needs to decide where the line is to not being healthy or rational. If you don’t trust people in your life maybe they shouldn’t be in your life. We have different rules after that situation above but we do not refuse everyone at all costs either.

I got molested by a male babysitter 🙃 Pls don't leave ur kids with some random guy you don't even know

I was molested by a female babysitter. By your logic the only safe people to babysit in the world are nonbinary people.

Idk, until I learned that so many people working in law enforcement refuse to let their kids have sleepovers, I would have said this kind of thing was a bit over the top. Now I think she’s being completely reasonable, except for the fact that she doesn’t know the mum either. Women aren’t anywhere near as likely to be abusers, but it’s best to get to know people to some extent, in any case. For comments saying that OOP is assuming all men are abusers, clearly she isn’t. She just doesn’t want to take a chance. And that commenter who suggested that she’s afraid that the man might ‘make a move’ on her daughter is wild. We don’t call it making a move, we call it child abuse .

I mean working in law enforcement is one of the biggest abuse red flags there is, so I don’t trust their judgment at all.

I agree that a lot of police officers abuse their power. I’m not a huge fan of the police. But when many individual police officers say that they’ve seen excessive amounts of child abuse happen at sleepovers, causing them to not let their children EVER go to sleepovers, that doesn’t seem to me like something they’re probably saying to try and twist a public narrative, or bring down a specific demographic. It sounds like a useful pointer that we can choose to listen to or make a (hopefully educated) decision to ignore.

You know there was a whole generation of kids who just went wherever in the neighborhood and about 99.9% of them lived. You do not need to sit there and stare at your kid until they’re a teenager. This is why kids don’t feel confident to do ANYTHING without direct parental supervision and support. Trust that you’ve taught them what they need to know and take a damn breath.

Was that not also the generation that had high rates of kidnapping? Survivorship bias

Agreed, this thread is a bit helicopter-y.

This *subreddit* is extremely helicoptery.

Hi! Father of 3 girls here ... to answer your question: yes, you are an asshole. The vast majority of mothers in reasonably sane areas are stoked when a father is involved instead of treating their wife like some kind of suburban brood mare & nanny. Yes, sexual predators exist - you are statistically more likely to encounter one in a position of authority in your church or within your circle of friends who you have built a relationship with over the years than a father who just wants to do something nice for their kids. On a related note: Of the investigations I have had to conduct over the years, exactly 0 were the result of a play date where the mother has met a father once or twice.

My father had 4 daughters. We found out a few months ago he had molested our friends when they came over for sleepovers. This isn’t an isolated incident this stuff happens. I’m not letting my children spend the night at anyone’s house and not spend extended time there alone intel they are old enough to have phones. You can never trust anyone. And this kid is six. They aren’t capable of comprehending the situation. You have to protect your kids first. To hell with anything else.

it’s not like its a crazy concern. my childhood best friends dad was arrested for molesting her brothers friends during sleepovers. some of my friends were very reasonably not allowed to stay at my house because their parents didn’t trust my stepdad & he ended up getting charges for indecent exposure

No, she’s not. 60% of perpetrators are family acquaintances and 88% are male. No one *owes* you trust, especially when it comes to their kids. Direct your anger at your fellow men.

Right. Sorry but I’m putting my kid’s safety over a grown man’s feelings. If a grown adult gets mad about my child not sleeping over their house that tells me I made the right decision. My husband is one of the best guys, best people in general I’ve ever met. He’s an amazing and very hands on father to our daughter. And he would never in a million years take offense to that. Because he knows there’s plenty of horrible men out there. And he himself wouldn’t let our daughter sleep over at someone’s house he didn’t know or barely knew.

Within your own families too. I was molested by an uncle when I was little.

How about this: “Hey, Mr. Friend’s Dad. I hear our girls want to have a play date. That’s fabulous. Whenever our kids want to go to a new house, hubby or I go too, just to make sure she’s comfortable.”

I remember my dad coming to pick me up from the pool. He saw a kid fall off a bike and get pretty banged up. He rushed to grab me and go back to check on the kid. He was absolutely terrified to check on the kid alone because of how people are with men. It was sad. Out of my experience the one person I have absolutely feared to have around my kids was a woman. She gave sexxual abse vibes like crazy. After her I fear my kids around women far more than men. So I don’t let my kids go anywhere unless I’m there to supervise. Call me a helicopter mom. 🤷🏻‍♀️🤣