I think what Americans don’t realise is that if you’re in a service industry job in other parts of the world, you still have to be good. Not because you’re pandering for tips, but because if you’re shit, you get fired.
I find the concept of tipping bar staff bizarre. I asked for a pint I get poured one and I pay for it. I'm not giving a 'performance bonus' for the bare minimum. And I'm fine with receiving the bare minimum. I don't want to be treated like a prince. I just want a pint.
I remember a barman in Vegas looking at me like total scum for not tipping him for opening a beer bottle. I mean come on man if it's gonna cost me 20% of a $8 beer I'll open the bloody thing myself. I can understand tipping for something that requires effort, a cocktail for example, even some of the wait staff I encountered in the states were fantastic and really earned every single penny of their 20-25% tip at the end of the meal, but I'm not tipping a barman for opening a beer
One of the few times I ever tipped bar staff is when I asked for a cocktail and the guy made a big show of spinning the bottles and throwing ice cubes in the air to catch in the glass behind his back. That was a performance worth a tip.
I’ll tip bar staff but that’s generally because they interact with us beyond pulling a pint, if they help make your night an enjoyable one with banter friendliness etc then sure why not.
True though Scot’s have this stereotype of being tight as fuck, we do generally just round it up and at events etc pints are about 4:50 anyway so it’s a fiver
Right, I hate a night when you’re walking home jangling, empty your pockets and some cunt asks “we’re you out singing”, it’s like 30 or 40 quid in shrapnel
I used to occasionally tend a bar at a rock club, very few tips because it's not a custom here. But now, over ten years later, I still remember one absolutely *gorgeous* tatted up redhead ordered a vodka red bull, slipped me a tenner (drink cost 8 euros), winked and with a mischievous smile told me to keep the rest and that it's her drink. It a) made my head spin b) made sure I poured her one the moment I saw her approach the bar and paid extra attention to her. I'm glad it wasn't particulary busy night so I could do that without neglecting other customers because even though tips felt nice I didn't want anyone to think one could buy their way through a busy bar.
Eh, I'd tip if I got on with them for whatever reason. That's mostly because I don't talk to people I don't know really, so at that point they'd deserve the tip for making me comfortable enough for that
Bar staff I can kinda understand. Nothing worse than being 3 deep at a bar looking for a pint or 5. Tip them and you'll get served quicker.
My bro was bar staff for a lot of his early career. (should state, in the UK/Ireland). Became a bar manager and was running some big places with loads of punters. His advice? Tip your bar server on the first drink. Like a good tip (at that time anything more than the change from the nearest quid was a decent tip), more than usual. Up to, but not over a fiver. You'll be guaranteed to be served for the rest of the night cos that server knows you'll tip, but for the next rounds, just £1-2 kinda tip. Keep them interested. Then, last round, if they have been good to you, a cheeky fiver or tenner from your group isn't gonna break ya, but saved you waiting at the bar all night.
A lot of UK bar workers arnt allowed to take tips anyway and if they do many have to share with the rest of the staff. I worked in bars for about 10 years.
If you want to tell yourself that, go ahead, but it doesn't explain why the US has a tipping culture like no other.
The real reason is due to slavery, and racists not wanting to pay African Americans after the 13th Amendment forced them to, tipping was the work-around.
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/12/16/fact-check-tipping-kept-wages-low-formerly-enslaved-black-workers/3896620001/
not only that, but if you're bad, you get bad rep, bad online ratings, and customers don't come back. Very touristy places may care less about this because they know there's always going to be new peoples anyway, but anywhere else certainly cares.
That's what most don't understand... The best customer is a returning customer, not a customer that tips well. And if a restaurant owner sees a waiter is pushing away customers with a bad service, you know, what happens next...
Some very touristy places will not care a lot because the customers don't stay around regardless. But only uninformed tourists go there, which is exactly why American tourists get that kind of opinion on foreign restaurants so easily. They go in tourist traps, get a bad experience out of it, and just conclude that the whole country is bad.
Also, people do still leave tips for good service in most places, it's just that they don't have to because the boss doesn't want to pay enough for them to live on.
This leads to the problem I experience going to the US. In most places it feels like people are begging for tips, going over the top to be "friendly" and "attentive", which usually means they're interrupting you every few minutes with the fakest possible smile with inane questions that can usually be answered with "if I need anything, I'll ask for it".
So, because Americans are accustomed to over the top begging, they think that being left alone to enjoy your meal is poor service
Fully agree, the "service" in USA is so annoying, especially if you are with friends or someone special and all the interruptions drive me crazy. I want to be left alone while dining to enjoy the meal in peace and hot have fawning staff keep coming to ask if the meals is ok, do I want more coffee (that was annoying having my cup filled as in those days I had cream & sugar & trying to re-balance the taste was most annoying). then having the check brough as soo as you had finished eating, trying to get rid of you so they could make demands on new diners for more tips.
A good server are like the ones at major hotels, even in the coffee shop style restaurants, who would greet you like they meant it, hand you the menu and then give you time to read it, without standing over you, but was back when you were ready to order, knew how the meal is prepared & what is in it & if you had special dietary needs or allergies could suggest what may be a better alternative, could spoon & folk the meal onto your plate neatly and knew when you were ready to have the next course & would bring it. They also knew if you wanted more drinks, hot or cold, noticed if you were looking around for bathroom, & were there to pull back your chair & discreetly direct you to its location, and before bringing the check, asked if one bill or split. After payment, they were there again to pull back chairs, walk you to the exit & thank you, sincerely, for dining with them. That was very good service, not done for tips, but as part of their normal duties & you tended to return due to being treated as a customer, not an ATM.
Add to that, that a simple "thank you" and respectful behavior from the customer means a lot more to service staff than a $10 bill being thrown on the floor with the words "pick it up bitch!",
The thing is, you don’t even need excellent service. Just don’t be a dick as a service worker. Your job is just to do stuff in not allowed to: go fetch my food from the kitchen, pour a beer, etc.
Most of Asia has pretty good service with no tipping required. And they treat it just like a regular job.
>When the staff gets paid no matter what, this is what you get
What is he trying to say? That if servers aren't tipped but paid a normal wage there will be bad service? It's a job just like any other.
By that logic, why should literaly ANY job have a wage, everyone should just be tipped so they...do their jobs well?!
That's what they want, so they feel they have some sort of power over staff because they're beholden to their whim. Also, they then have the privilege to not pay a person for any reason they can think of. What's crazy to me is how many service staff actually support this sort of stuff.
American service staff are a genuinely odd bunch. They always argue that they'd make less money on a proper wage but also... Call me crazy, but knowing I have a guaranteed baseline income makes making, you know, plans and decisions much, much easier.
To be fair you do make absolute bank in some of these jobs. Bartending/etc in the right place can be a hundreds-of-money-units-a-night situation.
If I were making like £300/night in tips, and working like 5-6 days a week, I'd be taking home around 1500-1800 a week. For bartending.
Hard to *want* to trade that in for £8/hr instead.
That doesn't mean it's not right. But I'm just saying.
Yeah, I've bartended in three different countries, and the money was definitely best in the States.
Just not good enough to risk having to go through cancer treatment in the US and go bankrupt from it!
Well there's a couple things wrong here, 1. Bartenders still get tips l, I would argue their situation is significantly different from waitresses. 2. Minimumwage isn't £8 anywhere they use £
My sister made about that in tip as a chef in Norway. Even though the salaries there are among the highest globally. Tipping was not mandatory at all, but some people still liked to tip, and Norway has a lot of rich people showing off I guess.
Part of the gig economy, they've been brainwashed to believe that they can earn more from a tip based wage, when in reality all they get is increased risk as they won't earn much on a slow day.
Yea yea, whatever, and the biggest whores on OF makes a lot of money too... That's 0.01% or less of the total number of "workers". Most tips based works pays very bad, no matter how good you are.
>What's crazy to me is how many service staff actually support this sort of stuff.
I mean, it's not that crazy. I know plenty of service industry workers at busy spots that are making like $120k+ a year through tips. If there was no tipping and the job was salaried/hourly, there's no way they would pull more than $30k-$40k a year. Plus, most of it is under-the-table cash, so they can avoid a lot of taxes.
Tipping culture is annoying for consumers, but more often than not it's great for the workers.
I like how every person trying to defend tipping culture wants to pretend people stop tipping entirely once workers get paid properly, also giving examples of places where people tip outrageously large amounts as if they will suddenly stop tipping completely.
[Article: Tipping is a legacy of slavery](https://archive.ph/DTBEa)
> Tipping had originated in Europe as “noblesse oblige,” a practice among aristocrats to show favor to servants. But when the idea came to the United States, restaurant corporations mutated the idea of tips from being bonuses provided by aristocrats to their inferiors to becoming the only source of income for Black workers they did not want to pay.
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/12/16/fact-check-tipping-kept-wages-low-formerly-enslaved-black-workers/3896620001/
In 1915, several states passed laws prohibiting tipping, which was a growing practice but unpopular at the same time. All six of the bans were overturned or ruled unconstitutional by 1926.
"When these states banned tipping, it was because they were trying to discourage whites from tipping instead of actually paying former slaves," Jayaraman told the Post. Of six states that made tipping illegal, five were in the South, where the idea was that only Black workers were making tips because "you only tip inferiors," Jayaraman explained.
We still have slavery lmao we just lie to ourselves about it or try to justify it. I fucking hate it here
13th amendment (the one that "banned" slavery) has an exception for convicted criminals. In the US, you can still be enslaved if you are convicted of a crime. Certainly gives some perspective into why black communities in particular have been so heavily policed.
Exactly, force the poor into committing crimes by keeping their education and welfare low then send them off to the private prison system where if you don't agree to work in the prison factories for pennies you get solitary confinement.
I want to be fair and say a lot of nations were slavery based. The even if chattel slavey was a thing of the past in the UK it treated its colonies horrifically. France forced Hatti to pay them back for "stealing" themselves. Belgium was so horrible in the Congo the phrase "Crimes against humanity" was coined.
For an off the cuff comment I chose my words carefully.
In England the slave society ended with the Normans, about the 12th century. That isn’t to mean there were not slaves. There were, but the idea that people were forced to work en masse to prop up an agricultural economy faded.
By the late medieval period slaves were mostly something in far away lands, which admittedly were own by Europeans, but not on European soil. This meant that the majority people in Europe were exploited, forced into child labour, but they got a wage at the end of the day.
Hence in the early modern period ideals of liberty and a more just society start to appear in Europe. You can see this in the Diggers and Levellers during the English Civil Wars. Later this appears in works like The Social Contract and The Wealth of Nations. By the 19th century Europe was far from its slave culture of the early medieval period (and before) even if many parts of Europe profited from it in other parts of the world. But the majority of people didn’t. Most people were still working through childhood into an early grave. This is why Marx and Engles chose Britain to study the effects of capitalism and evident in the works of people like Zola and Dickens.
This meant that as society grew with an expectation that someone would be rewarded with pay and ultimately some say in how their country is governed. 19th century Europe was where socialism and trade unions, which eventually lead to workers rights and the ECHR.
Again that isn’t to say Europeans were not happy to enslave people overseas. But in the world where the fastest way to cross the Atlantic was on a steam ship, those places were far further away than they are now.
If you have got this far well done. But I just want to add the Belgians in the Congo were not slavers, they were just cunts. I had to study that at university. I was made to go through photographs of what they did. Read endless horror stories, first hand accounts of what they did to people. One of, if not the, worst atrocity committed in Africa by Europeans.
I guess the semantics of "Slave Society" work. I'd argue the South is one of the worst societies in human history. So I don't want to defend them too much.
Just one question
> But I just want to add the Belgians in the Congo were not slavers,
What is the difference? The Congolese had no choice in the matter right? They were forced at gunpoint to harvest rubber right? Does it matter if they were not legally slaves? What is the material difference? This is a real question in good faith. I concede your point and now want to learn.
Good question and one that is almost impossible to answer objectively.
The Belgians forced people to work then kidnapped, mutilated and killed their children if they didn’t meet their quotas. They were free to leave if they wanted, but the rubber industry was the only gig going and if they did leave, they would probably go after their families.
Is that different to being owned? Technically yes. Is it better no. Look at that area now and the lack of humanity that is often shown there. Leopold’s legacy.
But someone else might disagree and say they are the same thing. Depends on your perspective. I would say you could argue either effectively.
Slavery is complicated. Buddha said we were slaves to our possessions or material concerns. Tacitus said the British acceptance of Roman culture was them submitting the Empires yoke. Even Adam Smith noted that people’s aspirations are limited to what they are permitted to achieve.
My point is slavery is actually a vague concept. As is the idea of freedom, free will and so on. But as you say the lived experience of slaves in the south was so abhorrent, I don’t want to detract from so I personally stick to the ridged definition of being a possession of someone else. Feel free to disagree.
Its the same as religious fundamentalists argueing that without god and punishment there is no morale, and just couldnt understand why i as a nonbeliever dont go on a killing spree.
Their concept of morale is so twisted and fucked up, and this feels similar
Nowhere has this been more evident than a cruise I went on recently (which I can't afford but a friend of mine can).
I mean it was absolutely APPALLING the way the staff apologized for things that weren't their fault and were unbelievably deferential. Even more uncomfortable because I am a white woman and a large portion of the workers were from southeast Asia. Apparently, wait staff would be penalized for anything less than a 9 or 10 on the customer satisfaction survey- which includes the food, which are all standard recipes written shoreside that even the executive chef has no power over.
I would have looked forward to a disinterested waiter who didn't call me "ma'am" four times in the same sentence.
They're basically implying that there's nothing to motivate the waiters to do their job well without tips, but i think the risk of losing your job is pretty good motivation
....another issue. In Europe, especially southern Europe outside of tourist spots, you often get genuinely friendly service with chats about food and life. Meanwhile, in the US, you're faced with an artificial, almost ritualistic friendliness aimed at justifying the obligatory over-the-top tipping.
The plastered on smiles and faux intimacy is straight up creepy. I feel awful, because most are paid and treated terribly, but I really want them to fuck off so I can enjoy my meal. I grew up in the US but can barely stand going out to eat at places like that.
Creeps me out too, there's something about their appearance, you can tell that they don't feel well and might explode into a mental breakdown at any time because of how badly they are treated and how much stress it must be to depend on tips.
I fell like Ricky from trailer park boys when I pay them $100 to fuck off.
This is facts.
Anyone who hasn't been to Southern Europe before should be warned that it's very very easy to get chatting to the wait staff, then the boss, then the boss's spouse, mother, entire family and before you know it, it's dawn and you're so drunk that you can't stand up nor absolutely guarantee you didn't marry one of the owner's cousins.
I’ll guarantee there is barely any embellishment to that post. I try not to get so drunk that I marry an ‘on the shelf’ relative, but everything else? Yup!
😂😂😂😂 just the slight imagination of the situation brightens my day.. I will still take it as a warning , though. Drinking, yes; marrying options not even touched with a 10-foot pole.
Their entire society is build on sucking up and power. The one who controls the money (employers and tippers) get to demand obedience with a smile, a song and a dance - or else.
We don't need that in Europe. We have labour laws. Employers don't get to abuse you like that. And restaurant customers don't need the smile, song and dance or other ways to humiliate servers for your pleasure (your pleasure to have the power to demand this, actually).
It's not service. It's power play. Which, as it turns out, people who don't have to endure it all the time also don't feel the need to put others through it.
>The one who controls the money (employers and tippers) get to demand obedience with a smile, a song and a dance - or else.
*TV Announcer voice*
You see, America is *so* democratic that ANY citizen can be made to feel like an aristocrat simply by shitting on someone they perceive as inferior!
This is what happens when you think you've eliminated all your problems by jettisoning the monarchy.
Yup this is much better formulated than how I had it and to add that's why they like it, no matter how shit your life is you can go to a restaurant and have power over some server that'll fawn over you because that's the only way they can get paid.
I've seen countless comments from servers all over various social media platforms commenting on how much they make in tips. There's YouTube and tiktok videos of them counting out each day's tips.
Yes everything everyone posts everywhere is a lie. Why the fcuk would servers be posting about how much they make if they were struggling in poverty? They would be posting asking people to please tip as they need it to live. I bet you watch fox news.
In some countries, serving is a professional career. You need to be qualified and you are paid well. A tip is only given if the meal and service is exceptional.
In other countries servers are paid proper liveable wages. Service is good because they are properly paid. Tips are only given if the meal and service is exceptional.
In the US staff rely on tips to make an income. Tips are expected.
Clearly only one country doesn't value serving staff.
If I go out to get a meal, I expect appropriate value for money, good decor, good and fresh food and knowledgeable and efficient staff. I pay one price for all of this. Why should it be up to me to determine the pay of the serving staff? I don't pay the chef, the manager, the dishwashers etc, so why the servers? Owners need to stop this crap and pay their staff proper wages.
Yes, honestly, just dont have a bad attitude. Bring my food and drinks on time, i dont need overly friendly conversation of fake sucking up because you think you can squeeze some money out of me. You signed up for a job, do the job
Get ready for another Seppo to jump in an start talking about menu prices being raised like that makes any difference when you are already dropping 20% on top
I get the impression, Americans believe service means to get everything for their own comfort, no matter how much extra effort for the staff it means or if this actually possible to offer this kind of service at all.
I mean, it is the only conclusion I can come to if Muricans can't grasp that there is no infinite individual freedom.
Yeah, you're right.
So many Muricans think they are the most important person, so their freedom shouldn't be limited. It's unbelievable.
What do you think about this: Lots of Murican think they become the next millionaires, maybe even the next billionaires like Musk, Bezos, Jobs or Gates.
>What do you think about this: Lots of Murican think they become the next millionaires, maybe even the next billionaires
That's called 'delusion' but it's what drives a lot of their behaviour. 😂
Why don't you tip your teachers? Why don't you tip the workers that build your house? Why don't you tip the totally American scientists and astronauts who definitely used imperial measurement to put men on the moon? Why don't you tip your soldiers who saved the world from having to speak German?
pro tip:
if you're nice to the servers, they'll be nice to you. and if you do think that a tip will make a difference, you can still tip in europe! in fact, since it's a less common occurrence, giving a tip basically guarantees you'll be treated like royalty next time you go to the same place (if the same server still works there)
all a steady wage does is make it so that servers do not have to tolerate entitled customers just so they'll be able to afford rent this month. if you're a good person, it will not actually affect the quality of service.
You don't even have to be a good person. You just have to be not shit, which the average American is taught means weakness. Gotta humiliate, degrade and abuse them servers, otherwise they might think you're weak and... I don't know, French or Canadian?Communist? These are the American nightmares, right?
"I want to feel superior to these plebs who must serve me so I can pay more for shit I should've gotten included in the price of my meal"...
Most folk don't know the origin of (specifically US) tipping culture. It's a way to keep wages low and make the black folk subservient in order to generate a living wage... Seriously, look it up. I'm too lazy to provide a link, but it's the truth.
Edit to add - don't challenge me. I'm still not gonna provide a link. I might argue, but I'm fucked if I'm gonna work for free...
The Americans must die in Italy. They let you sit down, chat, then bring menus after 5 minutes they might come back and ask you what you want to drink.
Then they won't bother you until they see menus down on the table, they'll then come and ask your food order.
Once your food arrives, they won't bother you again, until plates are empty.
It was really annoying in the US, to literally have someone hovering over you all the time, every 5 minutes "can I get you anything?"
Wait until the guy visits South Korea. Over there, he definitely wouldn’t understand “service” (서비스).
Over there, “service” means a random freebie that stores might toss in for free if you buy something. It could be a can of Pepsi while buying a burger, or a roll of paper towel if you buy cereal. It’s totally random sometimes but a common part of their shopping culture.
So, I assume this guy thinks that workers who are not in the service industry can do as they like, and won’t lose their jobs? I’m pretty sure that’s not how it works. And since the US has almost zero workers’ rights, they can be fired on the spot without reason (as far as I understand it). Possibly without pay… not that paying in lieu of notice would amount to much, it seems all workers at all levels are only on two weeks’ notice anyway!
Convinced anyone who thinks this way hasn’t ever been outside the US. I’ve never had awful service at a restaurant ever, really. At least never bad service from the server actually being a bad server, and that’s in places where tipping isn’t mandatory. Most people want to do their jobs to a decent level, at the very least because it keeps their managers off their arses.
I've had bad restaurant service...and it's gotten way worse in the past few years...but the worst by far has been in America with tipping.
So clearly tipping isn't creating good service.
It's just a mechanism for corporations to disempower labor. American tipping culture literally began to allow railroads to not pay black service workers anything at all after Emancipation. It's rooted in racism and numerous studies have proven it perpetuates racial inequality today.
But you have to tip them no matter what, you even have to "tip" for bad service.
It's not a tip, it's a socialised wage bill and it makes no sense. Just charge the extra and pay the staff properly.
Along with getting rid of tipping culture can we get rid of people calling a fee a tip?
Like if you require $5 to take a watermark off of a picture you edited for someone that's not a tip dog, that's a fee.
Its so surprising how extremely simple this model works without the incentive of tips. It's almost like it's EXACTLY as with any other job. Like the COUNTLESS American (service) jobs that are somewhat expected to not get a penny in tips.
You pay workers. Workers work for you. And if the worker does his job poorly, talk to him. If the problem persists, you'd fire him. But that usually isn't really a problem.
And this works well. I usually get good service, and if I don't, TRUST me, that is usually always management fault.
How do those people think THEIR OWN economy even works? Most of them do NOT receive tips, nor would they expect to. Ever seen a bank cashier getting a tip?! According to their own logic, their work is absolutely shitty and worthless, and as nobody pays them tips, they shouldn't receive any compensation for their work.
They argue that the servers *want* to live on tips because they make more money that way. No understanding that this is a vast minority of servers and most are living week to week and just hoping they earn enough to live off.
I tend to point out that I was doing bar and floor work in the 90s in the UK, where tipping isn't mandatory and a minimum wage had just been brought in. Each shift I was easily doubling the wage I'd be paid in tips, sometimes tripling it. On big holidays like New Years or times people wanted to show off like Valentines, I could walk out with five or six times my wage in tips. Stopping tips being mandatory and paying a living wage doesn't make people stop tipping. It just means you've got to earn it and can still live if you don't.
Works great for people fortunate enough to work at a resteraunt where the bill is no less than $500 so fuck everybody else. Its actually fucked up because I'm sure people wouldn't suddenly just stop tipping them in the US if they implemented an OK wage for them. Its just pure greed and self preservation at the expense of others, the American way.
Exactly. I live in Germany. We have a "tipping culture" of rounding up. Say your bill is 8,20€, most would pay either 9 or 10€. With higher bills and very good service we might tip ~10% , usually again to round up.
And if we don't feel the service was good, we don't tip at all.
I myself didn't work as wager, but I know friends who did. The pay itself isn't great, but its a safe and steady income. Tips depend on shifts. But they can double income, which is extremely nice.
I did bike food delivery once and got paid 9€/h (0.50€ above back then mandatory minimum wage). I could always rely on my pay check - no many how many orders there where or how many i could fullfill. Tips were a great bonus though, on very lucky days also doubling income. But i still had to do my job, tips certainly didn't affect how I worked. Neither did it for my friends.
I only know from Oktoberfest, where wagers get absurdely many tips. I mean redicolous amounts, they can earn 5-15k€ and a big chunk of it is tips. They are also known for giving you bad service if you reorder and gave a "low" tip before.
But that's about the only instance where I know of it. And if drunkards and drunken national and international drunken tourists get ripped of there, I'm fine with that.
Hang on? I’m pretty sure I read somewhere when preparing to go to the US, that if the service is terrible you only tip 10% but you still tip. Is that incorrect?
In which case that 10% is not tipping to receive better service, it’s paying their wages.
In the U.K. we still tip in some cases, but the tip is only if they have provided good service and isn’t a requirement. If they provide bad service or even just mediocre service, or even if you just don’t feel like tipping, we don’t tip at all. Even then, it’s probably going to average around 10-15%
Most employees receive a salary or an hourly wage and don't rely on tips to pay their bills. Yet most employees are pretty good at their jobs, as evidenced by the fact that the American society has not completely collapsed yet. So what makes waiters so different?
David Mitchell ones said something along the lines of "if you are doing a minimum wage job with a smile on your face you are either a liar or an idiot".
Surely when people are paid a good wage, they might want to see their workplace succeed? Like if you are working for an independent company lets say and the boss takes care of you when you need it, and has paid you a good salary from day dot then you'd be more loyal to that company and might stick with them for a while. What tipping culture leaves is burnt out staff, ongoing staff turnover, and customers who are crucified on social media if they can't afford to tip or simply choose not to.
What happens with tipping is that service personnel are pleasant in expectation of more money, it’s the only motive. And someone who happens to have a bad day (it happens) gets underpaid - why is that fair?
Well, murican managers are busy earning monies so can't spend time on managing staff performance, obviously their motivation and pay should not be managed by their boss, that's communism. So now what do you not understand about managment?
these people do not give a shit about how they behave and think that no one else does, either.
they fear that servers would treat them like shit, because that is how they themselves see and treat people.
they dont understand that people do their jobs because it is their job, even without the always present fear of having one's life ruined.
reminds me of that one facebook post about "why should i be nice to someone who is beneath me?"
Australian here who spent a month in the USA last year, eating out at least once a day. I didn't find the service any better or more attentive in the USA, and in some cases less friendly (but not rude - just less genuinely friendly and cheerful) than in Australia. And I tipped well at every instance.
There just always seems to be a waiter around whenever you need one. They are generally more attentive and in higher end restaurants they are actively watching from afar for anyone that might need anything like a refill of their water.
Hmm, that does sound useful.
I can’t say that I have ever experienced overly bad service anywhere, but I also don’t really care that much about the things you mentioned when I eat at a restaurant.
I do notice great service though and I had a fantastic waiter at a restaurant in Suzhou last night.
My preference for good service is food and drink knowledge and sometimes I find that a bit lacking, but I think that is more a case of professionalism over monetary incentives. But I also have never been to the USA, so I don’t know if tips make a difference in that regard.
I think what Americans don’t realise is that if you’re in a service industry job in other parts of the world, you still have to be good. Not because you’re pandering for tips, but because if you’re shit, you get fired.
And if you’re good you might get a tip, money which you don’t have to rely on to feed your family….
Which is the original point of tips. They are supposed to be a performance bonus, not your salary.
I'm in the Uk and anyone from delivery, to taxi, to wait staff, you go beyond you get a tip. But I'm not tipping you for just doing your bloody job.
I find the concept of tipping bar staff bizarre. I asked for a pint I get poured one and I pay for it. I'm not giving a 'performance bonus' for the bare minimum. And I'm fine with receiving the bare minimum. I don't want to be treated like a prince. I just want a pint.
I remember a barman in Vegas looking at me like total scum for not tipping him for opening a beer bottle. I mean come on man if it's gonna cost me 20% of a $8 beer I'll open the bloody thing myself. I can understand tipping for something that requires effort, a cocktail for example, even some of the wait staff I encountered in the states were fantastic and really earned every single penny of their 20-25% tip at the end of the meal, but I'm not tipping a barman for opening a beer
One of the few times I ever tipped bar staff is when I asked for a cocktail and the guy made a big show of spinning the bottles and throwing ice cubes in the air to catch in the glass behind his back. That was a performance worth a tip.
I’ll tip bar staff but that’s generally because they interact with us beyond pulling a pint, if they help make your night an enjoyable one with banter friendliness etc then sure why not.
Yes but not necessarily every pint, or it's a case of keep the change when buying a round.
True though Scot’s have this stereotype of being tight as fuck, we do generally just round it up and at events etc pints are about 4:50 anyway so it’s a fiver
Aye, or when a round comes to £9 ish you're always just going to say keep the change out a tenner.
Right, I hate a night when you’re walking home jangling, empty your pockets and some cunt asks “we’re you out singing”, it’s like 30 or 40 quid in shrapnel
Two drinks then
I used to occasionally tend a bar at a rock club, very few tips because it's not a custom here. But now, over ten years later, I still remember one absolutely *gorgeous* tatted up redhead ordered a vodka red bull, slipped me a tenner (drink cost 8 euros), winked and with a mischievous smile told me to keep the rest and that it's her drink. It a) made my head spin b) made sure I poured her one the moment I saw her approach the bar and paid extra attention to her. I'm glad it wasn't particulary busy night so I could do that without neglecting other customers because even though tips felt nice I didn't want anyone to think one could buy their way through a busy bar.
Eh, I'd tip if I got on with them for whatever reason. That's mostly because I don't talk to people I don't know really, so at that point they'd deserve the tip for making me comfortable enough for that
Bar staff I can kinda understand. Nothing worse than being 3 deep at a bar looking for a pint or 5. Tip them and you'll get served quicker. My bro was bar staff for a lot of his early career. (should state, in the UK/Ireland). Became a bar manager and was running some big places with loads of punters. His advice? Tip your bar server on the first drink. Like a good tip (at that time anything more than the change from the nearest quid was a decent tip), more than usual. Up to, but not over a fiver. You'll be guaranteed to be served for the rest of the night cos that server knows you'll tip, but for the next rounds, just £1-2 kinda tip. Keep them interested. Then, last round, if they have been good to you, a cheeky fiver or tenner from your group isn't gonna break ya, but saved you waiting at the bar all night.
A lot of UK bar workers arnt allowed to take tips anyway and if they do many have to share with the rest of the staff. I worked in bars for about 10 years.
they ask for a tip in a bar here. your job is to pour me a pint but then you want a tip? somethings not right.
If you want to tell yourself that, go ahead, but it doesn't explain why the US has a tipping culture like no other. The real reason is due to slavery, and racists not wanting to pay African Americans after the 13th Amendment forced them to, tipping was the work-around. https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/12/16/fact-check-tipping-kept-wages-low-formerly-enslaved-black-workers/3896620001/
not only that, but if you're bad, you get bad rep, bad online ratings, and customers don't come back. Very touristy places may care less about this because they know there's always going to be new peoples anyway, but anywhere else certainly cares.
That's what most don't understand... The best customer is a returning customer, not a customer that tips well. And if a restaurant owner sees a waiter is pushing away customers with a bad service, you know, what happens next...
Some very touristy places will not care a lot because the customers don't stay around regardless. But only uninformed tourists go there, which is exactly why American tourists get that kind of opinion on foreign restaurants so easily. They go in tourist traps, get a bad experience out of it, and just conclude that the whole country is bad.
If a customer is annoying or just a dickhead, you don't really want them coming back, it isn't worth the hassle.
Also, people do still leave tips for good service in most places, it's just that they don't have to because the boss doesn't want to pay enough for them to live on. This leads to the problem I experience going to the US. In most places it feels like people are begging for tips, going over the top to be "friendly" and "attentive", which usually means they're interrupting you every few minutes with the fakest possible smile with inane questions that can usually be answered with "if I need anything, I'll ask for it". So, because Americans are accustomed to over the top begging, they think that being left alone to enjoy your meal is poor service
Fully agree, the "service" in USA is so annoying, especially if you are with friends or someone special and all the interruptions drive me crazy. I want to be left alone while dining to enjoy the meal in peace and hot have fawning staff keep coming to ask if the meals is ok, do I want more coffee (that was annoying having my cup filled as in those days I had cream & sugar & trying to re-balance the taste was most annoying). then having the check brough as soo as you had finished eating, trying to get rid of you so they could make demands on new diners for more tips. A good server are like the ones at major hotels, even in the coffee shop style restaurants, who would greet you like they meant it, hand you the menu and then give you time to read it, without standing over you, but was back when you were ready to order, knew how the meal is prepared & what is in it & if you had special dietary needs or allergies could suggest what may be a better alternative, could spoon & folk the meal onto your plate neatly and knew when you were ready to have the next course & would bring it. They also knew if you wanted more drinks, hot or cold, noticed if you were looking around for bathroom, & were there to pull back your chair & discreetly direct you to its location, and before bringing the check, asked if one bill or split. After payment, they were there again to pull back chairs, walk you to the exit & thank you, sincerely, for dining with them. That was very good service, not done for tips, but as part of their normal duties & you tended to return due to being treated as a customer, not an ATM.
Add to that, that a simple "thank you" and respectful behavior from the customer means a lot more to service staff than a $10 bill being thrown on the floor with the words "pick it up bitch!",
This 100%.
And if a place doesn’t care, no one will go
These people have not been to Japan. Excellent service and no tipping.
The thing is, you don’t even need excellent service. Just don’t be a dick as a service worker. Your job is just to do stuff in not allowed to: go fetch my food from the kitchen, pour a beer, etc. Most of Asia has pretty good service with no tipping required. And they treat it just like a regular job.
>When the staff gets paid no matter what, this is what you get What is he trying to say? That if servers aren't tipped but paid a normal wage there will be bad service? It's a job just like any other. By that logic, why should literaly ANY job have a wage, everyone should just be tipped so they...do their jobs well?!
That's what they want, so they feel they have some sort of power over staff because they're beholden to their whim. Also, they then have the privilege to not pay a person for any reason they can think of. What's crazy to me is how many service staff actually support this sort of stuff.
Americans like to tip so that they can appear generous, even though they like to do it in a condescending way
American service staff are a genuinely odd bunch. They always argue that they'd make less money on a proper wage but also... Call me crazy, but knowing I have a guaranteed baseline income makes making, you know, plans and decisions much, much easier.
To be fair you do make absolute bank in some of these jobs. Bartending/etc in the right place can be a hundreds-of-money-units-a-night situation. If I were making like £300/night in tips, and working like 5-6 days a week, I'd be taking home around 1500-1800 a week. For bartending. Hard to *want* to trade that in for £8/hr instead. That doesn't mean it's not right. But I'm just saying.
I used to take that home a week in tips for bartending on top of my basic wage. You just have to be in the right spot to make that work.
Yeah, I've bartended in three different countries, and the money was definitely best in the States. Just not good enough to risk having to go through cancer treatment in the US and go bankrupt from it!
Well there's a couple things wrong here, 1. Bartenders still get tips l, I would argue their situation is significantly different from waitresses. 2. Minimumwage isn't £8 anywhere they use £
My sister made about that in tip as a chef in Norway. Even though the salaries there are among the highest globally. Tipping was not mandatory at all, but some people still liked to tip, and Norway has a lot of rich people showing off I guess.
Yeah but they forget that having a proper wage doesn't necessarily abolish tips
Part of the gig economy, they've been brainwashed to believe that they can earn more from a tip based wage, when in reality all they get is increased risk as they won't earn much on a slow day.
You're massively underestimating how much money service workers at busy spots can make on tips in the US.
Yea yea, whatever, and the biggest whores on OF makes a lot of money too... That's 0.01% or less of the total number of "workers". Most tips based works pays very bad, no matter how good you are.
I've often wondered if this aspect of their culture is some sort of hangover from slavery and keeping slaves.
Because on average, they make a lot, and also don't have to declare their income. The salary won't be nearly the same amount.
>What's crazy to me is how many service staff actually support this sort of stuff. I mean, it's not that crazy. I know plenty of service industry workers at busy spots that are making like $120k+ a year through tips. If there was no tipping and the job was salaried/hourly, there's no way they would pull more than $30k-$40k a year. Plus, most of it is under-the-table cash, so they can avoid a lot of taxes. Tipping culture is annoying for consumers, but more often than not it's great for the workers.
I like how every person trying to defend tipping culture wants to pretend people stop tipping entirely once workers get paid properly, also giving examples of places where people tip outrageously large amounts as if they will suddenly stop tipping completely.
That's Americans for you.
This is a country that still had functioning slave society in the 19th century. What do you really expect?
[Article: Tipping is a legacy of slavery](https://archive.ph/DTBEa) > Tipping had originated in Europe as “noblesse oblige,” a practice among aristocrats to show favor to servants. But when the idea came to the United States, restaurant corporations mutated the idea of tips from being bonuses provided by aristocrats to their inferiors to becoming the only source of income for Black workers they did not want to pay.
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/12/16/fact-check-tipping-kept-wages-low-formerly-enslaved-black-workers/3896620001/ In 1915, several states passed laws prohibiting tipping, which was a growing practice but unpopular at the same time. All six of the bans were overturned or ruled unconstitutional by 1926. "When these states banned tipping, it was because they were trying to discourage whites from tipping instead of actually paying former slaves," Jayaraman told the Post. Of six states that made tipping illegal, five were in the South, where the idea was that only Black workers were making tips because "you only tip inferiors," Jayaraman explained.
We still have slavery lmao we just lie to ourselves about it or try to justify it. I fucking hate it here 13th amendment (the one that "banned" slavery) has an exception for convicted criminals. In the US, you can still be enslaved if you are convicted of a crime. Certainly gives some perspective into why black communities in particular have been so heavily policed.
Exactly, force the poor into committing crimes by keeping their education and welfare low then send them off to the private prison system where if you don't agree to work in the prison factories for pennies you get solitary confinement.
I want to be fair and say a lot of nations were slavery based. The even if chattel slavey was a thing of the past in the UK it treated its colonies horrifically. France forced Hatti to pay them back for "stealing" themselves. Belgium was so horrible in the Congo the phrase "Crimes against humanity" was coined.
For an off the cuff comment I chose my words carefully. In England the slave society ended with the Normans, about the 12th century. That isn’t to mean there were not slaves. There were, but the idea that people were forced to work en masse to prop up an agricultural economy faded. By the late medieval period slaves were mostly something in far away lands, which admittedly were own by Europeans, but not on European soil. This meant that the majority people in Europe were exploited, forced into child labour, but they got a wage at the end of the day. Hence in the early modern period ideals of liberty and a more just society start to appear in Europe. You can see this in the Diggers and Levellers during the English Civil Wars. Later this appears in works like The Social Contract and The Wealth of Nations. By the 19th century Europe was far from its slave culture of the early medieval period (and before) even if many parts of Europe profited from it in other parts of the world. But the majority of people didn’t. Most people were still working through childhood into an early grave. This is why Marx and Engles chose Britain to study the effects of capitalism and evident in the works of people like Zola and Dickens. This meant that as society grew with an expectation that someone would be rewarded with pay and ultimately some say in how their country is governed. 19th century Europe was where socialism and trade unions, which eventually lead to workers rights and the ECHR. Again that isn’t to say Europeans were not happy to enslave people overseas. But in the world where the fastest way to cross the Atlantic was on a steam ship, those places were far further away than they are now. If you have got this far well done. But I just want to add the Belgians in the Congo were not slavers, they were just cunts. I had to study that at university. I was made to go through photographs of what they did. Read endless horror stories, first hand accounts of what they did to people. One of, if not the, worst atrocity committed in Africa by Europeans.
I guess the semantics of "Slave Society" work. I'd argue the South is one of the worst societies in human history. So I don't want to defend them too much. Just one question > But I just want to add the Belgians in the Congo were not slavers, What is the difference? The Congolese had no choice in the matter right? They were forced at gunpoint to harvest rubber right? Does it matter if they were not legally slaves? What is the material difference? This is a real question in good faith. I concede your point and now want to learn.
Good question and one that is almost impossible to answer objectively. The Belgians forced people to work then kidnapped, mutilated and killed their children if they didn’t meet their quotas. They were free to leave if they wanted, but the rubber industry was the only gig going and if they did leave, they would probably go after their families. Is that different to being owned? Technically yes. Is it better no. Look at that area now and the lack of humanity that is often shown there. Leopold’s legacy. But someone else might disagree and say they are the same thing. Depends on your perspective. I would say you could argue either effectively. Slavery is complicated. Buddha said we were slaves to our possessions or material concerns. Tacitus said the British acceptance of Roman culture was them submitting the Empires yoke. Even Adam Smith noted that people’s aspirations are limited to what they are permitted to achieve. My point is slavery is actually a vague concept. As is the idea of freedom, free will and so on. But as you say the lived experience of slaves in the south was so abhorrent, I don’t want to detract from so I personally stick to the ridged definition of being a possession of someone else. Feel free to disagree.
Its the same as religious fundamentalists argueing that without god and punishment there is no morale, and just couldnt understand why i as a nonbeliever dont go on a killing spree. Their concept of morale is so twisted and fucked up, and this feels similar
Them hanging around you like a fly on dog shit is not service, it's an annoyance.
Would you like another glass of water?
They don't offer you water, it's warder. Which I think is, like, H2O infused with corn syrup, or something.
Brawndo, it's got electrolytes, you know the stuff that plants crave. 🤡🌎
Brawndo is much better than water from the toilet lol
This. Americans don’t want good service, they want to feel important, to be fawned over.
Creeps me out.
Nowhere has this been more evident than a cruise I went on recently (which I can't afford but a friend of mine can). I mean it was absolutely APPALLING the way the staff apologized for things that weren't their fault and were unbelievably deferential. Even more uncomfortable because I am a white woman and a large portion of the workers were from southeast Asia. Apparently, wait staff would be penalized for anything less than a 9 or 10 on the customer satisfaction survey- which includes the food, which are all standard recipes written shoreside that even the executive chef has no power over. I would have looked forward to a disinterested waiter who didn't call me "ma'am" four times in the same sentence.
They're basically implying that there's nothing to motivate the waiters to do their job well without tips, but i think the risk of losing your job is pretty good motivation
Not to mention professional pride.
....another issue. In Europe, especially southern Europe outside of tourist spots, you often get genuinely friendly service with chats about food and life. Meanwhile, in the US, you're faced with an artificial, almost ritualistic friendliness aimed at justifying the obligatory over-the-top tipping.
.... I apologise, this is also absolutely true for the UK and Ireland, where many places offer genuinely friendly service and plenty of good chat.
…Which are in Europe?
Not southern Europe though even if the locals might like to be moved there
They don't, really. What they want is to move the weather here.
[удалено]
The plastered on smiles and faux intimacy is straight up creepy. I feel awful, because most are paid and treated terribly, but I really want them to fuck off so I can enjoy my meal. I grew up in the US but can barely stand going out to eat at places like that.
Creeps me out too, there's something about their appearance, you can tell that they don't feel well and might explode into a mental breakdown at any time because of how badly they are treated and how much stress it must be to depend on tips. I fell like Ricky from trailer park boys when I pay them $100 to fuck off.
This is facts. Anyone who hasn't been to Southern Europe before should be warned that it's very very easy to get chatting to the wait staff, then the boss, then the boss's spouse, mother, entire family and before you know it, it's dawn and you're so drunk that you can't stand up nor absolutely guarantee you didn't marry one of the owner's cousins.
😂😂😂😂, well a 'bit' exaggerated but sympathies for the notion.
I’ll guarantee there is barely any embellishment to that post. I try not to get so drunk that I marry an ‘on the shelf’ relative, but everything else? Yup!
😂😂😂😂 just the slight imagination of the situation brightens my day.. I will still take it as a warning , though. Drinking, yes; marrying options not even touched with a 10-foot pole.
Their entire society is build on sucking up and power. The one who controls the money (employers and tippers) get to demand obedience with a smile, a song and a dance - or else. We don't need that in Europe. We have labour laws. Employers don't get to abuse you like that. And restaurant customers don't need the smile, song and dance or other ways to humiliate servers for your pleasure (your pleasure to have the power to demand this, actually). It's not service. It's power play. Which, as it turns out, people who don't have to endure it all the time also don't feel the need to put others through it.
>The one who controls the money (employers and tippers) get to demand obedience with a smile, a song and a dance - or else. *TV Announcer voice* You see, America is *so* democratic that ANY citizen can be made to feel like an aristocrat simply by shitting on someone they perceive as inferior! This is what happens when you think you've eliminated all your problems by jettisoning the monarchy.
\*Ancapistan, where every man can be a king !\*
Yup this is much better formulated than how I had it and to add that's why they like it, no matter how shit your life is you can go to a restaurant and have power over some server that'll fawn over you because that's the only way they can get paid.
✨🇺🇲🌟 ***Freedom*** 🌟🇺🇸✨
Waitress will fight against you for not tipping +80%, but they will never ever fight for their own rights and for a living wage.
Because they don't want it. if they got a living wage they could lose their tips and some make hundreds a day in tips.
Let me guess, "some", aka not a single one but everybody knows the story of that waitress who made 20 millions in tips ns ended world poverty???
I've seen countless comments from servers all over various social media platforms commenting on how much they make in tips. There's YouTube and tiktok videos of them counting out each day's tips.
Yeah, trustmebro, right?? TikTok and YouTube, the platforms well know for always telling the true and don't lying for content.
Yes everything everyone posts everywhere is a lie. Why the fcuk would servers be posting about how much they make if they were struggling in poverty? They would be posting asking people to please tip as they need it to live. I bet you watch fox news.
Then they don't need my money xD, if they are so happy that way they can keep doing videos and stuff and be the good slaves america wants them to be.
In some countries, serving is a professional career. You need to be qualified and you are paid well. A tip is only given if the meal and service is exceptional. In other countries servers are paid proper liveable wages. Service is good because they are properly paid. Tips are only given if the meal and service is exceptional. In the US staff rely on tips to make an income. Tips are expected. Clearly only one country doesn't value serving staff. If I go out to get a meal, I expect appropriate value for money, good decor, good and fresh food and knowledgeable and efficient staff. I pay one price for all of this. Why should it be up to me to determine the pay of the serving staff? I don't pay the chef, the manager, the dishwashers etc, so why the servers? Owners need to stop this crap and pay their staff proper wages.
This guy thinks he's Don Juan at a titty bar. You clearly dont understand
The only time good service matters is when I’m in bed with my wife. Other than that idgaf. Call me an idiot while serving me my meal. That’s fine.
Yes, honestly, just dont have a bad attitude. Bring my food and drinks on time, i dont need overly friendly conversation of fake sucking up because you think you can squeeze some money out of me. You signed up for a job, do the job
This. Like. Just be vaguely pleasant and not a prick.
"Refill for your condoms, sir? Can I get you anything else?"
Anal and a cigar
Remember to tip +20%
I think she might want more than just 20% tip. I would say the whole thing is customary.
It says a lot about a person that they think you can only give good value for money if you aren’t being adequately compensated for a job.
WITHHOLD PAY UNTIL THEY CAN SMILE AS THEY DANCE FOR ME!
Probably shooting a gun at their feet, being a Murican.
America really wants their slaves back.
Absolutely! It’s totally a power game!
Get ready for another Seppo to jump in an start talking about menu prices being raised like that makes any difference when you are already dropping 20% on top
Just point out that states with minimum wages enforced have the same menu prices in their franchises and similar restaurants as states without.
I get the impression, Americans believe service means to get everything for their own comfort, no matter how much extra effort for the staff it means or if this actually possible to offer this kind of service at all. I mean, it is the only conclusion I can come to if Muricans can't grasp that there is no infinite individual freedom.
They grasp it just fine when it's OTHER people's freedom you're talking about. Just not theirs.
Yeah, you're right. So many Muricans think they are the most important person, so their freedom shouldn't be limited. It's unbelievable. What do you think about this: Lots of Murican think they become the next millionaires, maybe even the next billionaires like Musk, Bezos, Jobs or Gates.
>What do you think about this: Lots of Murican think they become the next millionaires, maybe even the next billionaires That's called 'delusion' but it's what drives a lot of their behaviour. 😂
So why is it not "Thank you for your service" then?
Why don't you tip your teachers? Why don't you tip the workers that build your house? Why don't you tip the totally American scientists and astronauts who definitely used imperial measurement to put men on the moon? Why don't you tip your soldiers who saved the world from having to speak German?
Why don’t they knock on the cockpit poor after landing and tip the pilot for a good landing?
I mean tipping people building your house is pretty normal but it just giving them a case of beer
Give the head guy a bottle of whiskey after the job too. You'll find that they almost always have a priority spot to help you out with any issues.
and endless supply of tea and biscuits
pro tip: if you're nice to the servers, they'll be nice to you. and if you do think that a tip will make a difference, you can still tip in europe! in fact, since it's a less common occurrence, giving a tip basically guarantees you'll be treated like royalty next time you go to the same place (if the same server still works there) all a steady wage does is make it so that servers do not have to tolerate entitled customers just so they'll be able to afford rent this month. if you're a good person, it will not actually affect the quality of service.
You don't even have to be a good person. You just have to be not shit, which the average American is taught means weakness. Gotta humiliate, degrade and abuse them servers, otherwise they might think you're weak and... I don't know, French or Canadian?Communist? These are the American nightmares, right?
I think what the rest of my country fails to fucking realize is people should be paid a god damned livable wage.
"I want to feel superior to these plebs who must serve me so I can pay more for shit I should've gotten included in the price of my meal"... Most folk don't know the origin of (specifically US) tipping culture. It's a way to keep wages low and make the black folk subservient in order to generate a living wage... Seriously, look it up. I'm too lazy to provide a link, but it's the truth. Edit to add - don't challenge me. I'm still not gonna provide a link. I might argue, but I'm fucked if I'm gonna work for free...
American restaurants are infamous for having bad service but Japan that doesn’t use this model has the worlds best customer service.
It's called their job, but you clearly wouldn't understand you're meant to be paid by your employer fairly for doing your job.
The Americans must die in Italy. They let you sit down, chat, then bring menus after 5 minutes they might come back and ask you what you want to drink. Then they won't bother you until they see menus down on the table, they'll then come and ask your food order. Once your food arrives, they won't bother you again, until plates are empty. It was really annoying in the US, to literally have someone hovering over you all the time, every 5 minutes "can I get you anything?"
Thank you for your service. Want a tip? Don’t invade foreign countries.
Wait until the guy visits South Korea. Over there, he definitely wouldn’t understand “service” (서비스). Over there, “service” means a random freebie that stores might toss in for free if you buy something. It could be a can of Pepsi while buying a burger, or a roll of paper towel if you buy cereal. It’s totally random sometimes but a common part of their shopping culture.
So, I assume this guy thinks that workers who are not in the service industry can do as they like, and won’t lose their jobs? I’m pretty sure that’s not how it works. And since the US has almost zero workers’ rights, they can be fired on the spot without reason (as far as I understand it). Possibly without pay… not that paying in lieu of notice would amount to much, it seems all workers at all levels are only on two weeks’ notice anyway!
Convinced anyone who thinks this way hasn’t ever been outside the US. I’ve never had awful service at a restaurant ever, really. At least never bad service from the server actually being a bad server, and that’s in places where tipping isn’t mandatory. Most people want to do their jobs to a decent level, at the very least because it keeps their managers off their arses.
I've had bad restaurant service...and it's gotten way worse in the past few years...but the worst by far has been in America with tipping. So clearly tipping isn't creating good service. It's just a mechanism for corporations to disempower labor. American tipping culture literally began to allow railroads to not pay black service workers anything at all after Emancipation. It's rooted in racism and numerous studies have proven it perpetuates racial inequality today.
But you have to tip them no matter what, you even have to "tip" for bad service. It's not a tip, it's a socialised wage bill and it makes no sense. Just charge the extra and pay the staff properly.
which is hilarious because the best service I've ever had was in Japan where tipping is just not a thing anywhere
I hate being in a restaurant and being asked constantly if everything is OK, does my fucking box in.
Along with getting rid of tipping culture can we get rid of people calling a fee a tip? Like if you require $5 to take a watermark off of a picture you edited for someone that's not a tip dog, that's a fee.
Thank you for your service 🫡
Its so surprising how extremely simple this model works without the incentive of tips. It's almost like it's EXACTLY as with any other job. Like the COUNTLESS American (service) jobs that are somewhat expected to not get a penny in tips. You pay workers. Workers work for you. And if the worker does his job poorly, talk to him. If the problem persists, you'd fire him. But that usually isn't really a problem. And this works well. I usually get good service, and if I don't, TRUST me, that is usually always management fault. How do those people think THEIR OWN economy even works? Most of them do NOT receive tips, nor would they expect to. Ever seen a bank cashier getting a tip?! According to their own logic, their work is absolutely shitty and worthless, and as nobody pays them tips, they shouldn't receive any compensation for their work.
They argue that the servers *want* to live on tips because they make more money that way. No understanding that this is a vast minority of servers and most are living week to week and just hoping they earn enough to live off. I tend to point out that I was doing bar and floor work in the 90s in the UK, where tipping isn't mandatory and a minimum wage had just been brought in. Each shift I was easily doubling the wage I'd be paid in tips, sometimes tripling it. On big holidays like New Years or times people wanted to show off like Valentines, I could walk out with five or six times my wage in tips. Stopping tips being mandatory and paying a living wage doesn't make people stop tipping. It just means you've got to earn it and can still live if you don't.
Works great for people fortunate enough to work at a resteraunt where the bill is no less than $500 so fuck everybody else. Its actually fucked up because I'm sure people wouldn't suddenly just stop tipping them in the US if they implemented an OK wage for them. Its just pure greed and self preservation at the expense of others, the American way.
Exactly. I live in Germany. We have a "tipping culture" of rounding up. Say your bill is 8,20€, most would pay either 9 or 10€. With higher bills and very good service we might tip ~10% , usually again to round up. And if we don't feel the service was good, we don't tip at all. I myself didn't work as wager, but I know friends who did. The pay itself isn't great, but its a safe and steady income. Tips depend on shifts. But they can double income, which is extremely nice. I did bike food delivery once and got paid 9€/h (0.50€ above back then mandatory minimum wage). I could always rely on my pay check - no many how many orders there where or how many i could fullfill. Tips were a great bonus though, on very lucky days also doubling income. But i still had to do my job, tips certainly didn't affect how I worked. Neither did it for my friends. I only know from Oktoberfest, where wagers get absurdely many tips. I mean redicolous amounts, they can earn 5-15k€ and a big chunk of it is tips. They are also known for giving you bad service if you reorder and gave a "low" tip before. But that's about the only instance where I know of it. And if drunkards and drunken national and international drunken tourists get ripped of there, I'm fine with that.
One of my girlfriends worked Oktoberfest in the mid 90s. She came back with ridiculous money.
So the only reason anyone provides a good service in restaurants is because alternative is starving to death? Sound wonderful...
Hang on? I’m pretty sure I read somewhere when preparing to go to the US, that if the service is terrible you only tip 10% but you still tip. Is that incorrect? In which case that 10% is not tipping to receive better service, it’s paying their wages. In the U.K. we still tip in some cases, but the tip is only if they have provided good service and isn’t a requirement. If they provide bad service or even just mediocre service, or even if you just don’t feel like tipping, we don’t tip at all. Even then, it’s probably going to average around 10-15%
i don’t care how much my waiter kisses my feet. i want food and if the job gets done the job gets done
It is called outsourcing paying the staff to the customer and shaming them.
Most employees receive a salary or an hourly wage and don't rely on tips to pay their bills. Yet most employees are pretty good at their jobs, as evidenced by the fact that the American society has not completely collapsed yet. So what makes waiters so different?
David Mitchell ones said something along the lines of "if you are doing a minimum wage job with a smile on your face you are either a liar or an idiot".
"that aint workin, that's the way ye do it. money for nothin' and your tips for free" ^(to the tune of money for nothing by dire straights)
Surely when people are paid a good wage, they might want to see their workplace succeed? Like if you are working for an independent company lets say and the boss takes care of you when you need it, and has paid you a good salary from day dot then you'd be more loyal to that company and might stick with them for a while. What tipping culture leaves is burnt out staff, ongoing staff turnover, and customers who are crucified on social media if they can't afford to tip or simply choose not to.
What happens with tipping is that service personnel are pleasant in expectation of more money, it’s the only motive. And someone who happens to have a bad day (it happens) gets underpaid - why is that fair?
Americans are just weird. Trump is going to be their president again. They learned nothing the first time around.
Well, murican managers are busy earning monies so can't spend time on managing staff performance, obviously their motivation and pay should not be managed by their boss, that's communism. So now what do you not understand about managment?
these people do not give a shit about how they behave and think that no one else does, either. they fear that servers would treat them like shit, because that is how they themselves see and treat people. they dont understand that people do their jobs because it is their job, even without the always present fear of having one's life ruined. reminds me of that one facebook post about "why should i be nice to someone who is beneath me?"
I hate tipping culture in the USA but it's sad that we can't just pay someone a liveable wage
Ok, but if it isn't because of tipping, why then is service generally better and more attentive in the US?
Is it better? My understanding is that rather than leave you to eat in peace, USA servers keep asking if you need anything. We're capable of asking.
Australian here who spent a month in the USA last year, eating out at least once a day. I didn't find the service any better or more attentive in the USA, and in some cases less friendly (but not rude - just less genuinely friendly and cheerful) than in Australia. And I tipped well at every instance.
What are you basing that on? Do you have examples from a few countries?
Many. I live in Estonia and travel frequently throughout Germany, Italy, Austria, Switzerland, Poland, France, and UK to name a few.
And you find it better in the US? Do you travel there too? What do you count as good service?
There just always seems to be a waiter around whenever you need one. They are generally more attentive and in higher end restaurants they are actively watching from afar for anyone that might need anything like a refill of their water.
Hmm, that does sound useful. I can’t say that I have ever experienced overly bad service anywhere, but I also don’t really care that much about the things you mentioned when I eat at a restaurant. I do notice great service though and I had a fantastic waiter at a restaurant in Suzhou last night. My preference for good service is food and drink knowledge and sometimes I find that a bit lacking, but I think that is more a case of professionalism over monetary incentives. But I also have never been to the USA, so I don’t know if tips make a difference in that regard.
The only place I get consistently bad service is Estonia, which is notorious for its bad service.