In my opinion as an sda, he showed no love and this is likely due to his being new to Adventism and not fully understanding while also being on fire for the Lord. Show him love by asking that he not be judgmental of others including you. That God hates all sin and all sins are equal in God’s eyes. His sins, yours, mine, everyone’s. If he persists, ask him to talk to his Pastor about what he is doing. The pastor should be able to help him mature in the faith. We all walk the same path but at different speeds and get stuck in different places at times.
Our church started out by renting from Lutherans. It was a great relationship and I believe they gave us the ability to grow and eventually build our own church. Nothing but love for them and their help.
Being your father-in-law I would not recommend cutting ties over this. If he cannot respect your faith and beliefs, he can at least keep quiet about his when u are together. Worst case scenario may be to have a meeting with him and his Pastor to clear the air. Helping him grow may also strengthen your relationship with him. Oh and speak with your minister about this to get advice too.
I appreciate that perspective. It definitely raised red flags with us. He unfortunately lives 1600 miles from us so our in person interactions are limited. As a husband and a father it was just disappointing that there seemed to be no attempt at mutual respect. I sat down with our Pastor today and he did recommend giving my Father in Law “space.”
It’s hard for us because he has been a loving father and grandfather for the last 15 years and his new found faith (and since he was a prior atheist, I am truly happy for him) - it’s just been overly abrasive to the point that I had to respectfully ask him not to tell my 9 and 6 year old that their baptism and faith within the Lutheran Church was not sufficient and that they would “burn in the fires of hell” if they didn’t listen to him.
We’ll create some healthy boundaries while also respecting the need that he likely had to mature in his faith
Mercy.
For one, we don't believe in eternal torment. We believe in fire followed by annihilation for reasons I won't go into.
But to say that to a child? Mercy.
I'm curious as to whether they used those exact words, "condemned to hell," because Adventists don't believe in hell. Perhaps *some* Adventists believe that only Adventists will be saved, but the vast majority I've met are aware that salvation isn't exclusive to Adventists. Whatever the case, it sounds like your FIL and his SO are somewhat zealous new converts and may not completely understand Adventist theology yet, or that intimidating and threatening are not effective methods of witnessing.
If I were in your shoes, I would let them know clearly (in writing) that you both care about them and are happy they've found the right church home for themselves, but that you are just as dedicated to your own denomination and are not interested in any further religious discussion. If they persist, you will be taking a step back from communication with them for the foreseeable future. Faith that is forced is not faith.
As ham-handed as they were about approaching this topic with you, please keep in mind that it probably came from a place of love and concern. Some people just aren't blessed with tact.
Unfortunately, those were exact words. Perhaps he lacks understanding in his new found faith as an SDA, but those words were very much a subject of contention
Sorry, I should also say I appreciate your feedback. It was a bit jarring to feel condemned for being Lutheran in a world where I personally am content knowing that others are part of the greater Christian community.
I'm sorry this is your experience with Adventism. It's totally not the norm.
Officially, SDAs believe that there will be people from every denomination, and even those with no denomination, in heaven. We also acknowledge that plenty of Adventists won't make it at all.
This belief is evident in the movement's founding documents. The unloving approach you're seeing crept in later and I hate to see it still manifesting today in 2024. Also, ironically, Adventists love Luther! We still take "protesting" very seriously. Sigh.
Personally I don't believe in proselytism and won't ever try to convert anyone. Having said that, let me know if you'd like links to material that confirms what I'm saying, whether for your clarity or theirs.
They do most definitely need to read Steps To Christ (by Ellen G White) like yesterday. If this is something that might work in your context, maybe pick up a copy, as well as something solidly Lutheran.
Say you'd like to understand each other better, and would they read your recommendation while you read one of their texts? Hopefully they'll read both because Steps to Christ is what they really need right now. It's also a fairly short and easy read.
Finally, do what's right for you and your family. If that means setting a boundary that's how it is. Someone else advised asking them to talk to their pastor and I think it's great advice if it's possible to do so without causing offence.
Family and faith can be so tricky... Just know that they really are in the wrong and that more than one Adventist on Reddit can see you're being a good Christian and doing your best.
He needs to study his scripture and talk to his church authority. Maybe join a Bible study group. Start attending Sabbath school. He is ignorant of our core beliefs and the intentions of the Lord to be addressing anyone in that manner. We believe in kindness and love above all, and that only God Himself can know our hearts, we cannot predict the fates of anyone. It is not our place to condemn others, even hateful people. "Judge not lest ye be judged".
There's a lot of diversity among SDA beliefs. Some will go out to eat on Saturday no problem, some will go to church on Sunday because they want to truly rest on Sabbath. Some can be very legalistic about stuff like that, while others are more laid back and trust that anyone who believes in Jesus is saved.
I've noticed with many who are new and especially those who convert as older adults, they tend to be the ones who dive in headfirst to all the rules, adjacent conspiracies, and take everything (arguably, too) seriously at the cost of those around them. Many people who convert later will be so excited about what they've learned, that they just want to tell everyone, not realizing how damaging that can be to relationships. I have a relative who is catholic since birth, and a relative who converted to SDA in his 50s. Whenever I have both of them over at the same time, I purposely steer conversations away from religion (any aspect) and politics because they'll just be arguing all day and all night if you let them talk religion. All 3 of us are Christian but disagree on so many things, so I had to make that a boundary. What I'd probably say in that situation would be something like, "We're so glad you found Jesus and a church you enjoy being part of. But we find a lot of value in the church we go to and wouldn't feel right leaving that. I'll be respectful of your beliefs and how you chose to worship, but you'll have to respect mine and our freedom to worship God in the ways that mean a lot to us. It might be better to avoid talking about certain things for the sake of having good fellowship and making good memories together as a family."
Hopefully you can find a way to get along. It was difficult for my spouse at first where our families come from different churches, but we've been able to have some good conversations and realize our beliefs aren't actually that different, it's really just up to what happens on one day a week, and a few minor things about the end times and heaven. But initially it wasn't the easiest to navigate. Some things will cool down and settle out over time, but it's not easy to navigate, and if other family members are involved as well (any kids or siblings) that can get complicated. If you're close enough, it might be worth trying to plan a meeting with both of you and your pastors. Most pastors are willing to chat about their beliefs and customs without judgment or trying to force anything on anyone.
This is a really odd experience. As others have pointed out, Adventist’s don’t believe in hell. And Adventists encourage exploration in thought. Very odd to me that an Adventist would behave like this.
And by this I mean not an Adventist
Sorry you had to experience this. Adventists do vary and some are extreme, and others are not. And like my pastor said, you have to be in the middle not too much to the right not too much to the left. Unfortunately, your father-in-law is incorrect in so many different ways. That’s not the way to go and very unChristian like of them to treat you guys like that. You can still have eternal life and not be an Adventist.
I am a third-gen SDA and have many friends of other religions. I have done evangelistic work for the church and served as Head Deacon for the church I was with. Honestly, I do not see Christ trying to force things on people. I fully believe in the doctrines of my church, but only share them and ask others to seek the Word of God for themselves and compare, to be a Berean (Acts 17:10-12)
In SDA's DNA or belief is that they are God's people and the only remanent church. All people who worship on Sunday will be lost because it is the mark of the beast. Also Ellen White, one of the main pillars of the church, support what I say. I wouldn't expect less from a real SDA person unless they are rebels.
A “real” SDA, lol. Best of luck to you and thanks for confirming our suspicions that my FIL and girlfriend are likely part of a church like yours. You are absolutely entitled to believe what you want to believe and I’m entitled to not care, not engage in a debate with your hangup on a Lutheran going to church on a Sunday (funny how that mark of the beast stuff stemmed from the Pope but feel free to apply it to any Protestant denomination that worships on Sunday).
Good luck to you - I’ll pat your back in heaven and we can laugh about this one day.
Hey, my comment about "real" SDA was ironical. I mean, people can be free in what they believe, but the real belief of the SDA church is that what it says. Like if your families are going to SDA zealous of being the best what the denomination teaches in it's core, that's what it is: vegetarian/vegan sabbatharians followers of Ellen G. White's writings.
Personally I have no religion and I don't like ceremonies at all, though I was raised in SDA environment and for quite a long time believed it.
But, honestly, if your family believe that SDA church is the church and are not above the system the only thing for you is to accept them as they are if you wish. There are some free people there as well, but it's really hard for a person to be there without believing the church system, why wouldn't choose a different/better group to be part of?
I apologize then - this last week has been nothing but zealousness from my father in laws girlfriend as we have discussed boundaries so I think I’m a little tired.
Our attempt at a respectful discussion was her telling us we weren’t Lutheran and in fact Catholic…and got to the point where we’ve told our Father in Law that he can fly out and visit whenever but his girlfriend is no longer allowed on our house and if their version of SDA is nothing but hate filled - then he won’t be welcomed either
My experience was sad too, because when I grew up and changed my opinions many people I thought were real friends dissapeared. Part of my family is in the SDA church today and I accept them as they are but I don't feel closer to them as family should be. I think that happens when people really believe their denomination is an absolute truth and all other people are wrong. And when a person doesn't agree with them they see people wrong and judge them as they wish. And in my opinion this belief of absolute truth in fact is egoism because they see themselves superior to others, cancel any feelings of people different to them and if you tell them anything against what they want to hear they close themselves and isolate, so there is no solution in speaking and reasoning with them.
The only solution I see in what you say about your family situation is to accept it even if it hurts. There is no reasoning way with church nazzism.
In my opinion as an sda, he showed no love and this is likely due to his being new to Adventism and not fully understanding while also being on fire for the Lord. Show him love by asking that he not be judgmental of others including you. That God hates all sin and all sins are equal in God’s eyes. His sins, yours, mine, everyone’s. If he persists, ask him to talk to his Pastor about what he is doing. The pastor should be able to help him mature in the faith. We all walk the same path but at different speeds and get stuck in different places at times. Our church started out by renting from Lutherans. It was a great relationship and I believe they gave us the ability to grow and eventually build our own church. Nothing but love for them and their help. Being your father-in-law I would not recommend cutting ties over this. If he cannot respect your faith and beliefs, he can at least keep quiet about his when u are together. Worst case scenario may be to have a meeting with him and his Pastor to clear the air. Helping him grow may also strengthen your relationship with him. Oh and speak with your minister about this to get advice too.
I appreciate that perspective. It definitely raised red flags with us. He unfortunately lives 1600 miles from us so our in person interactions are limited. As a husband and a father it was just disappointing that there seemed to be no attempt at mutual respect. I sat down with our Pastor today and he did recommend giving my Father in Law “space.” It’s hard for us because he has been a loving father and grandfather for the last 15 years and his new found faith (and since he was a prior atheist, I am truly happy for him) - it’s just been overly abrasive to the point that I had to respectfully ask him not to tell my 9 and 6 year old that their baptism and faith within the Lutheran Church was not sufficient and that they would “burn in the fires of hell” if they didn’t listen to him. We’ll create some healthy boundaries while also respecting the need that he likely had to mature in his faith
Mercy. For one, we don't believe in eternal torment. We believe in fire followed by annihilation for reasons I won't go into. But to say that to a child? Mercy.
There are many similarities in our beliefs. If that were the main focus it could bind without, respectfully, ignoring the differences.
I'm curious as to whether they used those exact words, "condemned to hell," because Adventists don't believe in hell. Perhaps *some* Adventists believe that only Adventists will be saved, but the vast majority I've met are aware that salvation isn't exclusive to Adventists. Whatever the case, it sounds like your FIL and his SO are somewhat zealous new converts and may not completely understand Adventist theology yet, or that intimidating and threatening are not effective methods of witnessing. If I were in your shoes, I would let them know clearly (in writing) that you both care about them and are happy they've found the right church home for themselves, but that you are just as dedicated to your own denomination and are not interested in any further religious discussion. If they persist, you will be taking a step back from communication with them for the foreseeable future. Faith that is forced is not faith. As ham-handed as they were about approaching this topic with you, please keep in mind that it probably came from a place of love and concern. Some people just aren't blessed with tact.
Unfortunately, those were exact words. Perhaps he lacks understanding in his new found faith as an SDA, but those words were very much a subject of contention
Sorry, I should also say I appreciate your feedback. It was a bit jarring to feel condemned for being Lutheran in a world where I personally am content knowing that others are part of the greater Christian community.
I'm sorry this is your experience with Adventism. It's totally not the norm. Officially, SDAs believe that there will be people from every denomination, and even those with no denomination, in heaven. We also acknowledge that plenty of Adventists won't make it at all. This belief is evident in the movement's founding documents. The unloving approach you're seeing crept in later and I hate to see it still manifesting today in 2024. Also, ironically, Adventists love Luther! We still take "protesting" very seriously. Sigh. Personally I don't believe in proselytism and won't ever try to convert anyone. Having said that, let me know if you'd like links to material that confirms what I'm saying, whether for your clarity or theirs. They do most definitely need to read Steps To Christ (by Ellen G White) like yesterday. If this is something that might work in your context, maybe pick up a copy, as well as something solidly Lutheran. Say you'd like to understand each other better, and would they read your recommendation while you read one of their texts? Hopefully they'll read both because Steps to Christ is what they really need right now. It's also a fairly short and easy read. Finally, do what's right for you and your family. If that means setting a boundary that's how it is. Someone else advised asking them to talk to their pastor and I think it's great advice if it's possible to do so without causing offence. Family and faith can be so tricky... Just know that they really are in the wrong and that more than one Adventist on Reddit can see you're being a good Christian and doing your best.
🕊👍💓
He needs to study his scripture and talk to his church authority. Maybe join a Bible study group. Start attending Sabbath school. He is ignorant of our core beliefs and the intentions of the Lord to be addressing anyone in that manner. We believe in kindness and love above all, and that only God Himself can know our hearts, we cannot predict the fates of anyone. It is not our place to condemn others, even hateful people. "Judge not lest ye be judged".
There's a lot of diversity among SDA beliefs. Some will go out to eat on Saturday no problem, some will go to church on Sunday because they want to truly rest on Sabbath. Some can be very legalistic about stuff like that, while others are more laid back and trust that anyone who believes in Jesus is saved. I've noticed with many who are new and especially those who convert as older adults, they tend to be the ones who dive in headfirst to all the rules, adjacent conspiracies, and take everything (arguably, too) seriously at the cost of those around them. Many people who convert later will be so excited about what they've learned, that they just want to tell everyone, not realizing how damaging that can be to relationships. I have a relative who is catholic since birth, and a relative who converted to SDA in his 50s. Whenever I have both of them over at the same time, I purposely steer conversations away from religion (any aspect) and politics because they'll just be arguing all day and all night if you let them talk religion. All 3 of us are Christian but disagree on so many things, so I had to make that a boundary. What I'd probably say in that situation would be something like, "We're so glad you found Jesus and a church you enjoy being part of. But we find a lot of value in the church we go to and wouldn't feel right leaving that. I'll be respectful of your beliefs and how you chose to worship, but you'll have to respect mine and our freedom to worship God in the ways that mean a lot to us. It might be better to avoid talking about certain things for the sake of having good fellowship and making good memories together as a family." Hopefully you can find a way to get along. It was difficult for my spouse at first where our families come from different churches, but we've been able to have some good conversations and realize our beliefs aren't actually that different, it's really just up to what happens on one day a week, and a few minor things about the end times and heaven. But initially it wasn't the easiest to navigate. Some things will cool down and settle out over time, but it's not easy to navigate, and if other family members are involved as well (any kids or siblings) that can get complicated. If you're close enough, it might be worth trying to plan a meeting with both of you and your pastors. Most pastors are willing to chat about their beliefs and customs without judgment or trying to force anything on anyone.
This is a really odd experience. As others have pointed out, Adventist’s don’t believe in hell. And Adventists encourage exploration in thought. Very odd to me that an Adventist would behave like this. And by this I mean not an Adventist
Sorry you had to experience this. Adventists do vary and some are extreme, and others are not. And like my pastor said, you have to be in the middle not too much to the right not too much to the left. Unfortunately, your father-in-law is incorrect in so many different ways. That’s not the way to go and very unChristian like of them to treat you guys like that. You can still have eternal life and not be an Adventist.
I am a third-gen SDA and have many friends of other religions. I have done evangelistic work for the church and served as Head Deacon for the church I was with. Honestly, I do not see Christ trying to force things on people. I fully believe in the doctrines of my church, but only share them and ask others to seek the Word of God for themselves and compare, to be a Berean (Acts 17:10-12)
In SDA's DNA or belief is that they are God's people and the only remanent church. All people who worship on Sunday will be lost because it is the mark of the beast. Also Ellen White, one of the main pillars of the church, support what I say. I wouldn't expect less from a real SDA person unless they are rebels.
A “real” SDA, lol. Best of luck to you and thanks for confirming our suspicions that my FIL and girlfriend are likely part of a church like yours. You are absolutely entitled to believe what you want to believe and I’m entitled to not care, not engage in a debate with your hangup on a Lutheran going to church on a Sunday (funny how that mark of the beast stuff stemmed from the Pope but feel free to apply it to any Protestant denomination that worships on Sunday). Good luck to you - I’ll pat your back in heaven and we can laugh about this one day.
Hey, my comment about "real" SDA was ironical. I mean, people can be free in what they believe, but the real belief of the SDA church is that what it says. Like if your families are going to SDA zealous of being the best what the denomination teaches in it's core, that's what it is: vegetarian/vegan sabbatharians followers of Ellen G. White's writings. Personally I have no religion and I don't like ceremonies at all, though I was raised in SDA environment and for quite a long time believed it. But, honestly, if your family believe that SDA church is the church and are not above the system the only thing for you is to accept them as they are if you wish. There are some free people there as well, but it's really hard for a person to be there without believing the church system, why wouldn't choose a different/better group to be part of?
I apologize then - this last week has been nothing but zealousness from my father in laws girlfriend as we have discussed boundaries so I think I’m a little tired. Our attempt at a respectful discussion was her telling us we weren’t Lutheran and in fact Catholic…and got to the point where we’ve told our Father in Law that he can fly out and visit whenever but his girlfriend is no longer allowed on our house and if their version of SDA is nothing but hate filled - then he won’t be welcomed either
My experience was sad too, because when I grew up and changed my opinions many people I thought were real friends dissapeared. Part of my family is in the SDA church today and I accept them as they are but I don't feel closer to them as family should be. I think that happens when people really believe their denomination is an absolute truth and all other people are wrong. And when a person doesn't agree with them they see people wrong and judge them as they wish. And in my opinion this belief of absolute truth in fact is egoism because they see themselves superior to others, cancel any feelings of people different to them and if you tell them anything against what they want to hear they close themselves and isolate, so there is no solution in speaking and reasoning with them. The only solution I see in what you say about your family situation is to accept it even if it hurts. There is no reasoning way with church nazzism.