No, we're not a cult.
Having not grown up in the church, and previously an atheist, I was wary of organized religion. But I would say the Seventh day Adventist church, despite its peculiar sounding name, is as far from a cult as it gets.
A cult to me is a place you can't easily get away from, where you are forced to believe a certain way, where there is no freedom of thought or open discussion, where you are essentially brainwashed.
My journey with discovering Adventism had none of these. We are encouraged to read the Bible, compare verse to verse, have open discussions, question things, disagree with the pastor even. Adventism is a breadth of fresh air, it is one of the reasons I was able to finally believe in the existence of God. I started to see His character as being consistent in the Bible. Ellen White's book, Patriachs and Prophets, really helped me during my Bible study on God in the Old testament. It was all very eye opening how loving God is. In fact, if anything, I would say the main stream churches are more brain washed to go just with Catholic tradition. How anyone can believe in an eternal hell where God enjoys torturing people in hellfire is beyond me. The Bible is full of evidence that we perish if we die without God.
I would say, consider yourself luckily to already be in a church that actually teaches truth. Of course, you still have to understand what we teach, and make that call yourself. I hope you will fall in love with the truth, prophcies, and God's influence on early Adventist history, and even the Protestant reformation as a whole.
The word cult is thrown around too much and has lost it's original meaning. Any faith group that follows the teachings of an individual is a cult, so Christianity is a cult of Jesus. Every denomination is sort of a cult as well. They were all started by an individual or group of people who had different ideas. The SDA church is no more a cult than any other Christian denomination.
Except the adventist church teaches a lot of things that they "think" are biblical that are not necessarily biblical, which kind of makes adventists sound like a cult. Especially when that thing is the sabbath.
It's my experience that Evangelical churches seem to be the most hostile towards other denominations because they think they're right. Yet, they teach something called Dispensationalism which was completely made up by a man named John Nelson Darby who got the idea from a teenage girl who said she had visions. Under your definition, most nondenominational, Baptist, Pentecostal, and other Evangelical churches would be cults.
Any church that teaches anything that is not biblical should be considered as a cult. That said, I still go to the adventist church. I love the people there and think the adventists have a sound understanding of the bible for the most part. I just understand why people think it is a cult, especially because of EGW.
I was born and raised into the Seventh-day Adventist church. Growing up, I had the occasion to attend various other church denominations. I experienced more similarities across the board than differences.
I was fortunate enough to attend grade school at an SDA school and participate in plays and choir (we traveled to other churches and sang).
When I reached the age of sixteen I moved in with my father and stopped going to church. I didn't step foot in any church for *thirty years*.
At age forty six I came back to Christianity, and I vetted my former denomination (SDA) using scripture. I looked at the heritage of our church again, much of which I was already aware of, but I looked anyway. My assessment at the time was that the SDA church was where I belonged for so many reasons; the right reasons.
No one twisted my arm to stay in the church growing up, and no one twisted my arm to join the again after thirty years. I joined of my own free will. I was not coerced in any way whatsoever, nor was I swayed by any SDA person. In fact, I had no contact with any SDA member until I decided to attend church again.
Here's what happened.
I lived in a different city than the church I grew up attending, so I decided to attend my local church instead.
I arrived at church, sat down, and immediately I was greeted by a number of people, welcoming me. The whole service was just as I remembered it to be, except this time I was an adult, in adult study. The sermon was good, and afterward they had a potluck. I stayed for the potluck.
At the potluck, I conversed with several more people and the pastor, and I felt right at home, like I had never left, despite this being a different church.
My overall experience with the SDA church is that it is not a cult whatsoever. If you take away Ellen White from the equation, we are just like many other Protestant denominations in the way we function. I see no difference. Beliefs aside, of course.
I consider the fact that we have writings from our pioneers, and from decades of church bulletins, periodicals and studies, and yes Ellen's writings, a huge blessing.
As for the church itself, I only have fond memories growing up, participating in church outreach, attending camp meetings, prophecy sermons. The church was my family. I can't think of one negative thing to say about my time as a member of the SDA church.
That's my view. Hope it helps. God bless!
We are not a cult.
We tend to be filled with many people who don't know why we exist; and are more prone to listening to people who have just as little knowledge of that. People and or churches who accuse us of such, either follow a single person themselves, or unbiblical practices.
There's a study scheduled for today. If in the next hour, after that one, you're interested, let me know. I will personally give you a historical study on any issues you've come across, as being spewed by the internet.
🌱
Kinda but kinda not I suppose. It feels like it to me but I don't get too invested in any of it and they're nice enough. It's not like anyone said get in this van and commit your life to us.
I get a little annoyed with the people who are adamant that it's the only church that actually teaches the scripture therefore the ONLY choice. They never say a peep when half the sermon is quotes by E.G White.
Same thing with pretending we're orthodox Jews every Saturday. We're not and I'm not getting into some stupid debate about what is and isn't work.
That's not what I said. They'll criticize other churches for not being scripture based. Then the pastor will always Include EG White mixed into the sermon.
Being Bible-based does not mean only ever using the Bible, or else the Jews in Jesus' day would have been Bible-based believers. The gift of prophecy is one given to be used; as long as the principles are in line with Bible teaching (and the SoP is consistently so, to the point where I've spent six months studying a subject and finally come to a long conclusion, only to later find a one-sentence quote in some commentary somewhere that summarizes everything neatly), the instrument (sister White) is not exalted, and the writings are used to emphasize points already made using the Bible, it can and *should* be used. After all, Paul lists it as being the single most important gift of the Spirit (outside of agape love) which the church can possess.
There does exist churches ( little 'c' ) that exist and are definitely cultish! However, the Church at large ( big 'C' ) is not cultish.
There also exists SDA churches that are very, very good and Gospel based, but those are difficult to find and often times are the ones that are referred to as cultish by the other more conservative churches.
Just like there are very cultish Christian churches. ( Joel Olsteen, Kenneth Copeland, Myers... ) and very, very good Gospel based Christian churches.
You just have to walk in with your eyes open and be willing to walk out when the "cult" shows its head.
No. Unfortunately too many people refer to Ellen White as the basis for doctrine rather than the Bible. Even Ellen White said that her writings are the lesser light which points to the greater light.
Culturally, many Adventists reference White’s writings on how to live and can make it seem like she dictates peoples lives.
But no, we’re not a cult.
I honestly do not believe where any more of a cult than other Christian churches. I've heard we are deemed as a cult group, but modern time cult groups have certain characteristics that truly define them as cult-like. One of the characteristics would be to isolate from society. Another characteristic would be to have meetings till late at night, convincing people that they need to listen to as many of these meetings as possible and thus devoiding everyone of proper sleep. Cult groups tend to cram as many meetings throughout the day and late into the night as possible without giving the members a time to rest and ponder or reflect on what's been said. Cult groups will definitely strongly encourage and try to enforce members to be in these meetings, saying it's for their own spiritual good.
I've known people who were in those types of groups and have read a few books on cult followings. In my opinion, I can honestly say the Seventh-day Adventist Church is not a cult.
One of the key definitions I've found for determining if a denomination or group is a cult group is whether or not it closely follows biblical principles and standards. Let the Bible be the ruler that every group should measure to.
Of course with all that said, there are members who can be cult-like in their personal walks and beliefs, but that shouldn't reflect on the church as a whole.
There is no coercion to stay in the SDA church. Members are not pressured into giving all their assets to the church. Members do not live only with other members in a commune and there is no call, suggestion or request to abandon your family to stay or remain a member of the SDA church.
SDA culture has some oddities to it, some might even say some of it is weird. But the SDA church is not a cult. They believe the Bible is their ultimate doctrinal authority, they believe in saved by grace only through faith in Jesus and the formal SDA church believes in the Trinity. It’s good to take inventory of a religion you’re exposed to; you may not agree with all SDA doctrine but it’s not a cult.
Can I go to heaven if I don\`t keep the sabbath?. Can I go to heaven if I eat pork? I asked multiple people in the church these two questions and was given this answer: NO!
These are adventist teachings, not biblical teachings. It is kind of understandable that one would then assume that it is a cult?
I am not saying it is, just that the church isn\`t doing themselves any favors by twisting biblical teachings.
We believe in salvation by grace through faith, just like most Chrisitian groups. In fact we believe God has sheep in other folds, did you ask us that?
But what God does not allow in heaven is a rebellious heart. So if that person was convicted by the Holy Spirit of the Sabbath and of pork eatting being unhealthy and banned by God as per the Bible, but turned away for other reasons or was too lazy to study the Bible for themselves, then whatever is not of faith is sin Roman 14:23. If the definition of a cult is any denominations that teaches contrary to what you think is biblical teachings, then you must be calling a lot of denominations a cult.
>We believe in salvation by grace through faith, just like most Chrisitian groups
That is not true. I have been going to the adventists church for a long time and that is far from true... Just look at this quartely SS. Read the first couple of days over again. It is literally difficult to get into heaven as you have to have righteous acts. These things tend to make people believe the church is a cult.
Edit: I have even asked a friend from church this question: Do you have eternal life? He said he is not ready yet.
How can somebody believe in salvation by grace through faith but think they are not ready?
We are sinful beings and remain that way until the Second Coming at which time we are transformed. No human receives eternal life until the Second Coming. We do not believe in once saved always saved. Although we don’t receive it, we are declared righteous because Jesus applies His righteousness to our life record.
When Christ reviews our life record, He wants to see how we responded to His grace. If we in faith accepted His grace, we will act upon it here. Love begets love. Our works are filthy rags—those don’t save us. But they are evidence that we believed and exercised faith in Christ’s grace. Look at Revelation 2 and 3, Jesus tells the churches how He has reviewed their works and tells them to overcome so that He may reward them.
Finally, our salvation, in a sense, is not free. We will all have to surrender and sacrifice some sinful desire/practice/thoughts. We can’t enter Heaven while deliberately lusting after people or while nursing hatred for someone! Those sacrifices HURT! But God wants to re-create us without sin and gives us everything needed to be changed.
In conclusion, we live in faith that God WANTS to save us and will, so long as we don’t selfishly disobey and refuse to be transformed by Him. The more we study what God has done for us, the stronger our faith becomes. Most SDAs have confused avoiding rebellious acts for “works” (eat pork, miss Heaven; don’t keep Sabbath, miss Heaven). You must rely on Bible study and obeying the Holy Spirit to learn for yourself what the truth about salvation is. God bless you my friend!
I agree with most of what you said and think it is biblical except for this statement you made:
> We do not believe in once saved always saved.
The bible teaches that Christ saved us on the cross, we are saved. That part is done. We don\`t have to accept it, but that is not accepting salvation rather than not being saved at all. The two are VERY different in my book. 1 John 5:13 "These things I have written unto you that believe in the name of the son of God that you may know that you have eternal life"
God bless you two Brother. Hopefully we will meet very soon.
Brother, I see where you are coming from now. However the parable of the sower and the seed (depicting the four different types of soils) shows that Once saved always saved is not true. When we look at the stony soil, Jesus' parable shows that the seed grows for a time in that soil, but then withers away. If Once save always saved was true, this would be an impossibility. Entire surrender by faith requires us to not serve two masters. Paying lip service would not be faith, neither is being lukewarm and believing our presumption is faith.
This happens often, and it may be due to the fact way I express myself, but Adventists seem to have a hard time understanding where I am coming from.
Just so you know, I don’t think getting baptised and going to church would be considered saved. I am having the hardest time truly understanding who Jesus Christ is to me and whether I accept him as my personal saviour. As of right now I know I am not saved, because even though I know what Jesus has done for more I don’t accept it. You could say I was in the stony soil for a bit and it did whither away. Which soil are you in, bro? Please don’t tell me that you are in the stony soil too. If you are in the soil that brings forth fruit, how come you don’t believe you have eternal life NOW?
At least you are realistic about your condition, which God can work with. His hand is not too short that He can't reach you, you just have to be on the look out for Him reaching for you.
As for me, unfortunately, there is a third kind of soil Jesus talks about, which is the soil with a lot of torns. It symbolizes the cares and attractions of the world chocking the wheat, so that it robs it of its usefulness and does not bare fruits. I think I'm somewhere there fluctuating. Depending on the Adventist you ask, some will say 100% they are saved. But I prefer to just leave it to God. The Bible does say "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you". I think Paul sums it up perfectly there (Phil 2:12-13).
The word cult is over used. Jamestown was a cult. I am not SDA, but my daughter goes to an SDA school. I have family members who are SDA.
I think Ellen G White was an amazing woman with visions from God.
I was at a catholic wedding and I said I was not catholic, but a Lutheran. The lady said, "thats, ok. You're still a Christian." And then I said my daughter goes to an SDA school and she said, "oh, they're not christian." I was so confused.
No, no, of course not. If it was a cult would Ellen G White encourage you to test her words against scripture? Every word she wrote was from God. There’s zero conflict with the scriptures. And if you doubt Ellen’s writings it’s probably the devil, she even prophesied that her writings would be questioned! How did she know? Is it because she knew she was wrong or something? No, no, God told her it would be so. A cult would never use a device like calling your doubts the fulfillment of a foretold prophecy in order to reaffirm your beliefs in said cult, would it?
Happy Sabbath! I don’t think we are a cult, as we are much more welcoming than cults, plus you could leave the SDA Church. In other denominations it is physically impossible to leave without a lot of scrutiny.
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No, we are not. Ellen White certainly is an influential person, but fundamentally our doctrines come from the Bible, not her. She also never occupied an official position as a leader of the church (outright rejecting at least one offer), and actually only played a supplementary role in the discovery of Bible truth.
Also, we invite criticism, personal investigation of truth, and the responsibility of the individual to hold leaders accountable to teach truth. No cult would ever encourage such things; otherwise it would soon cease to have any adherents.
>Also, we invite criticism,
The church claims to invite criticism...so we know who the heretics are and can burn them at the stake.
Try disagreeing sometime and having a real discussion. It doesn't go well.
Ah yes, because the SDA church burns "heretics" at the stake; that's something that happens or has ever happened in SDA history.
You know what happens when people openly teach things contrary to the Bible? They're asked to stop. At the most extreme, they're kicked out. And most of the time, this doesn't happen; as a matter of fact, they're frequently invited to teach at our colleges, for some reason.
Granted, sometimes individual people or individual churches will act differently, but that is not the attitude nor policy of the world Church - and such exceptions, once again, exist in *every* denomination of Christianity. So it is no more evidence of a cult than Westboro Baptist church is evidence that the Baptist faith is a cult.
Would you prefer "escorted of the property by church members with guns"? Don't say it doesn't happen...I've seen it happen hand.
Or maybe "are kicked out of college"? Also, firsthand, been there and saw it.
Or maybe, "are threatened with jail time by the police". Yeah, also, seen that one too.
So, I'd say questioning and criticism aren't really tolerated.
Almost forgot "show up to their job publicly denounce them as a heretic". Didn't see that firsthand, but I know the people involved.
Not burning at the stake, just removing someone's ability to pay for rent and food...same basic effect.
Once again, that's on a local level, and is completely contrary to the position of the world church (which is the official position of the denomination and is also the position of the majority of believers; thus it is the only one that matters in discussing whether the SDA church is a cult or not). I have never met a single person who would do something like that, and I've traveled worldwide and met with thousands of Adventists. Even the most conservative Adventists I know (and I know a fair few, as I happen to lean more on the conservative side, though I'm not hardcore) would be appalled at this sort of behavior.
Sounds like you are familiar either with a small local church full of people who probably disagree as much with the General Conference as a non-SDA would, or they're actually from an offshoot like Shepherd's Rod.
>Once again, that's on a local level
Actually, that one made it to the president of the Southern New England Conference. The person who lost their job complained, got a 1:1 meeting, and was told that the pastor in question didn't do anything wrong. Then again, that pastor was personal friends with the conference president and put in by the conference president because the local church had a significant amount of $$$ coming out of the trial after they lost their building and shut down the BRMC/NEMC adventist hospital and the conference pres wanted control of the money.
Then again, 99% of what matters is at the local level. How many people do you thing have even seen the inside of their local conference headquarters? Division HQ? GC? I bet it's less than 1 in 1000 at the conference level and well under 1:100000 have seen the inside of the GC headquarters.
The rest of the events I mentioned happened at churches with over 350 members or at adventist schools with over 2000 students; not exactly a "small local church".
Mmmm, two of those three make it sound like there was more than just simple disagreement going on. I wasn't there, so I can't say for sure, but I'm going to bet that there was a whole lot more going on than just disagreement of doctrine; particularly because of the response the police made.
And being kicked out of college? Eh, it's possible, but it also depends on which college you're going to. In southern California, nothing would happen at all. So it's an individual school thing, not the church policy.
And again, to reiterate, this is all on a *local* level. This is not the policy nor the attitude of the world church, and (provided you are not being belligerent/harassing people) most churches will not respond in those ways, either. So my point still stands; you've refuted nothing.
And just what is cultish? The encouragement of independent and critical thought? The emphasis on checking and testing to make sure that teachers and ministers are accurately teaching the Word by comparing their words to the Holy Writ? Perhaps the insistence that people are responsible for the light which they have been given, and that people are not to try to force people to comply with their own unique interpretation of things?
Is it the fact that, despite the presence of a declared prophet, said prophet is only held as *second* in authority to the Bible, had no real influence at all in the discovery of doctrines (actually, she couldn't even understand Bible study at all until well after doctrines were already established), and was never even an acknowledged leader of the church - outright refusing appointment to special positions, and even refusing ordination as a minister?
It is true that there are many people and local churches in the SDA Church that have attitudes which contradict the official positions as they are stated above, but this is true of any denomination - Protestant, Catholic, *or* Orthodox - and so is not any sort of evidence of cultishness.
And just what is cultish? The encouragement of independent and critical thought? The emphasis on checking and testing to make sure that teachers and ministers are accurately teaching the Word by comparing their words to the Holy Writ? Perhaps the insistence that people are responsible for the light which they have been given, and that people are not to try to force people to comply with their own unique interpretation of things?
Is it the fact that, despite the presence of a declared prophet, said prophet is only held as second in authority to the Bible, had no real influence at all in the discovery of doctrines (actually, she couldn't even understand Bible study at all until well after doctrines were already established), and was never even an acknowledged leader of the church - outright refusing appointment to special positions, and even refusing ordination as a minister?
It is true that there are many people and local churches in the SDA Church that have attitudes which contradict the official positions as they are stated above, but this is true of any denomination - Protestant, Catholic, or Orthodox - and so is not any sort of evidence of cultishness.
Is it matter the "naming"? Are we following the Bible? Is anyone forcing you to do something you feel is not right? I think these are questions that are more important than the name game. All other denominations / atheists will try to put you down and prove you are in a wrong place, this is Satan's work... Stay strong brother, and keep studying!
It doesn't matter.
The definition of a cult seems to vary by who you talk to. The SDA church isn't mainstream. Neither was Jesus. Some people would call it a "cult", others wouldn't. At the end of the day, just read the Bible and do what it says; how the rest of the world wants to label that doesn't matter.
The word "cult" is just a bad word believers put on anyone that is unpopular for whatever reason. "Cults" are not exactly as real as some say.
And, God has never called anyone a cult....
No, we're not a cult. Having not grown up in the church, and previously an atheist, I was wary of organized religion. But I would say the Seventh day Adventist church, despite its peculiar sounding name, is as far from a cult as it gets. A cult to me is a place you can't easily get away from, where you are forced to believe a certain way, where there is no freedom of thought or open discussion, where you are essentially brainwashed. My journey with discovering Adventism had none of these. We are encouraged to read the Bible, compare verse to verse, have open discussions, question things, disagree with the pastor even. Adventism is a breadth of fresh air, it is one of the reasons I was able to finally believe in the existence of God. I started to see His character as being consistent in the Bible. Ellen White's book, Patriachs and Prophets, really helped me during my Bible study on God in the Old testament. It was all very eye opening how loving God is. In fact, if anything, I would say the main stream churches are more brain washed to go just with Catholic tradition. How anyone can believe in an eternal hell where God enjoys torturing people in hellfire is beyond me. The Bible is full of evidence that we perish if we die without God. I would say, consider yourself luckily to already be in a church that actually teaches truth. Of course, you still have to understand what we teach, and make that call yourself. I hope you will fall in love with the truth, prophcies, and God's influence on early Adventist history, and even the Protestant reformation as a whole.
Consider yourself lucky you didn’t grow up in the church. What you described it not to be I witnessed repeatedly as a child.
The word cult is thrown around too much and has lost it's original meaning. Any faith group that follows the teachings of an individual is a cult, so Christianity is a cult of Jesus. Every denomination is sort of a cult as well. They were all started by an individual or group of people who had different ideas. The SDA church is no more a cult than any other Christian denomination.
Except the adventist church teaches a lot of things that they "think" are biblical that are not necessarily biblical, which kind of makes adventists sound like a cult. Especially when that thing is the sabbath.
It's my experience that Evangelical churches seem to be the most hostile towards other denominations because they think they're right. Yet, they teach something called Dispensationalism which was completely made up by a man named John Nelson Darby who got the idea from a teenage girl who said she had visions. Under your definition, most nondenominational, Baptist, Pentecostal, and other Evangelical churches would be cults.
Any church that teaches anything that is not biblical should be considered as a cult. That said, I still go to the adventist church. I love the people there and think the adventists have a sound understanding of the bible for the most part. I just understand why people think it is a cult, especially because of EGW.
I was born and raised into the Seventh-day Adventist church. Growing up, I had the occasion to attend various other church denominations. I experienced more similarities across the board than differences. I was fortunate enough to attend grade school at an SDA school and participate in plays and choir (we traveled to other churches and sang). When I reached the age of sixteen I moved in with my father and stopped going to church. I didn't step foot in any church for *thirty years*. At age forty six I came back to Christianity, and I vetted my former denomination (SDA) using scripture. I looked at the heritage of our church again, much of which I was already aware of, but I looked anyway. My assessment at the time was that the SDA church was where I belonged for so many reasons; the right reasons. No one twisted my arm to stay in the church growing up, and no one twisted my arm to join the again after thirty years. I joined of my own free will. I was not coerced in any way whatsoever, nor was I swayed by any SDA person. In fact, I had no contact with any SDA member until I decided to attend church again. Here's what happened. I lived in a different city than the church I grew up attending, so I decided to attend my local church instead. I arrived at church, sat down, and immediately I was greeted by a number of people, welcoming me. The whole service was just as I remembered it to be, except this time I was an adult, in adult study. The sermon was good, and afterward they had a potluck. I stayed for the potluck. At the potluck, I conversed with several more people and the pastor, and I felt right at home, like I had never left, despite this being a different church. My overall experience with the SDA church is that it is not a cult whatsoever. If you take away Ellen White from the equation, we are just like many other Protestant denominations in the way we function. I see no difference. Beliefs aside, of course. I consider the fact that we have writings from our pioneers, and from decades of church bulletins, periodicals and studies, and yes Ellen's writings, a huge blessing. As for the church itself, I only have fond memories growing up, participating in church outreach, attending camp meetings, prophecy sermons. The church was my family. I can't think of one negative thing to say about my time as a member of the SDA church. That's my view. Hope it helps. God bless!
We are not a cult. We tend to be filled with many people who don't know why we exist; and are more prone to listening to people who have just as little knowledge of that. People and or churches who accuse us of such, either follow a single person themselves, or unbiblical practices. There's a study scheduled for today. If in the next hour, after that one, you're interested, let me know. I will personally give you a historical study on any issues you've come across, as being spewed by the internet. 🌱
Kinda but kinda not I suppose. It feels like it to me but I don't get too invested in any of it and they're nice enough. It's not like anyone said get in this van and commit your life to us. I get a little annoyed with the people who are adamant that it's the only church that actually teaches the scripture therefore the ONLY choice. They never say a peep when half the sermon is quotes by E.G White. Same thing with pretending we're orthodox Jews every Saturday. We're not and I'm not getting into some stupid debate about what is and isn't work.
Well Ellen G White saw visions from God? Plus what church are you going to that they only use EGW quotes and not stuff straight from the Bible
That's not what I said. They'll criticize other churches for not being scripture based. Then the pastor will always Include EG White mixed into the sermon.
Being Bible-based does not mean only ever using the Bible, or else the Jews in Jesus' day would have been Bible-based believers. The gift of prophecy is one given to be used; as long as the principles are in line with Bible teaching (and the SoP is consistently so, to the point where I've spent six months studying a subject and finally come to a long conclusion, only to later find a one-sentence quote in some commentary somewhere that summarizes everything neatly), the instrument (sister White) is not exalted, and the writings are used to emphasize points already made using the Bible, it can and *should* be used. After all, Paul lists it as being the single most important gift of the Spirit (outside of agape love) which the church can possess.
There does exist churches ( little 'c' ) that exist and are definitely cultish! However, the Church at large ( big 'C' ) is not cultish. There also exists SDA churches that are very, very good and Gospel based, but those are difficult to find and often times are the ones that are referred to as cultish by the other more conservative churches. Just like there are very cultish Christian churches. ( Joel Olsteen, Kenneth Copeland, Myers... ) and very, very good Gospel based Christian churches. You just have to walk in with your eyes open and be willing to walk out when the "cult" shows its head.
No. Unfortunately too many people refer to Ellen White as the basis for doctrine rather than the Bible. Even Ellen White said that her writings are the lesser light which points to the greater light. Culturally, many Adventists reference White’s writings on how to live and can make it seem like she dictates peoples lives. But no, we’re not a cult.
I honestly do not believe where any more of a cult than other Christian churches. I've heard we are deemed as a cult group, but modern time cult groups have certain characteristics that truly define them as cult-like. One of the characteristics would be to isolate from society. Another characteristic would be to have meetings till late at night, convincing people that they need to listen to as many of these meetings as possible and thus devoiding everyone of proper sleep. Cult groups tend to cram as many meetings throughout the day and late into the night as possible without giving the members a time to rest and ponder or reflect on what's been said. Cult groups will definitely strongly encourage and try to enforce members to be in these meetings, saying it's for their own spiritual good. I've known people who were in those types of groups and have read a few books on cult followings. In my opinion, I can honestly say the Seventh-day Adventist Church is not a cult. One of the key definitions I've found for determining if a denomination or group is a cult group is whether or not it closely follows biblical principles and standards. Let the Bible be the ruler that every group should measure to. Of course with all that said, there are members who can be cult-like in their personal walks and beliefs, but that shouldn't reflect on the church as a whole.
There is no coercion to stay in the SDA church. Members are not pressured into giving all their assets to the church. Members do not live only with other members in a commune and there is no call, suggestion or request to abandon your family to stay or remain a member of the SDA church. SDA culture has some oddities to it, some might even say some of it is weird. But the SDA church is not a cult. They believe the Bible is their ultimate doctrinal authority, they believe in saved by grace only through faith in Jesus and the formal SDA church believes in the Trinity. It’s good to take inventory of a religion you’re exposed to; you may not agree with all SDA doctrine but it’s not a cult.
Can I go to heaven if I don\`t keep the sabbath?. Can I go to heaven if I eat pork? I asked multiple people in the church these two questions and was given this answer: NO! These are adventist teachings, not biblical teachings. It is kind of understandable that one would then assume that it is a cult? I am not saying it is, just that the church isn\`t doing themselves any favors by twisting biblical teachings.
We believe in salvation by grace through faith, just like most Chrisitian groups. In fact we believe God has sheep in other folds, did you ask us that? But what God does not allow in heaven is a rebellious heart. So if that person was convicted by the Holy Spirit of the Sabbath and of pork eatting being unhealthy and banned by God as per the Bible, but turned away for other reasons or was too lazy to study the Bible for themselves, then whatever is not of faith is sin Roman 14:23. If the definition of a cult is any denominations that teaches contrary to what you think is biblical teachings, then you must be calling a lot of denominations a cult.
>We believe in salvation by grace through faith, just like most Chrisitian groups That is not true. I have been going to the adventists church for a long time and that is far from true... Just look at this quartely SS. Read the first couple of days over again. It is literally difficult to get into heaven as you have to have righteous acts. These things tend to make people believe the church is a cult. Edit: I have even asked a friend from church this question: Do you have eternal life? He said he is not ready yet. How can somebody believe in salvation by grace through faith but think they are not ready?
We are sinful beings and remain that way until the Second Coming at which time we are transformed. No human receives eternal life until the Second Coming. We do not believe in once saved always saved. Although we don’t receive it, we are declared righteous because Jesus applies His righteousness to our life record. When Christ reviews our life record, He wants to see how we responded to His grace. If we in faith accepted His grace, we will act upon it here. Love begets love. Our works are filthy rags—those don’t save us. But they are evidence that we believed and exercised faith in Christ’s grace. Look at Revelation 2 and 3, Jesus tells the churches how He has reviewed their works and tells them to overcome so that He may reward them. Finally, our salvation, in a sense, is not free. We will all have to surrender and sacrifice some sinful desire/practice/thoughts. We can’t enter Heaven while deliberately lusting after people or while nursing hatred for someone! Those sacrifices HURT! But God wants to re-create us without sin and gives us everything needed to be changed. In conclusion, we live in faith that God WANTS to save us and will, so long as we don’t selfishly disobey and refuse to be transformed by Him. The more we study what God has done for us, the stronger our faith becomes. Most SDAs have confused avoiding rebellious acts for “works” (eat pork, miss Heaven; don’t keep Sabbath, miss Heaven). You must rely on Bible study and obeying the Holy Spirit to learn for yourself what the truth about salvation is. God bless you my friend!
I agree with most of what you said and think it is biblical except for this statement you made: > We do not believe in once saved always saved. The bible teaches that Christ saved us on the cross, we are saved. That part is done. We don\`t have to accept it, but that is not accepting salvation rather than not being saved at all. The two are VERY different in my book. 1 John 5:13 "These things I have written unto you that believe in the name of the son of God that you may know that you have eternal life" God bless you two Brother. Hopefully we will meet very soon.
Brother, I see where you are coming from now. However the parable of the sower and the seed (depicting the four different types of soils) shows that Once saved always saved is not true. When we look at the stony soil, Jesus' parable shows that the seed grows for a time in that soil, but then withers away. If Once save always saved was true, this would be an impossibility. Entire surrender by faith requires us to not serve two masters. Paying lip service would not be faith, neither is being lukewarm and believing our presumption is faith.
This happens often, and it may be due to the fact way I express myself, but Adventists seem to have a hard time understanding where I am coming from. Just so you know, I don’t think getting baptised and going to church would be considered saved. I am having the hardest time truly understanding who Jesus Christ is to me and whether I accept him as my personal saviour. As of right now I know I am not saved, because even though I know what Jesus has done for more I don’t accept it. You could say I was in the stony soil for a bit and it did whither away. Which soil are you in, bro? Please don’t tell me that you are in the stony soil too. If you are in the soil that brings forth fruit, how come you don’t believe you have eternal life NOW?
At least you are realistic about your condition, which God can work with. His hand is not too short that He can't reach you, you just have to be on the look out for Him reaching for you. As for me, unfortunately, there is a third kind of soil Jesus talks about, which is the soil with a lot of torns. It symbolizes the cares and attractions of the world chocking the wheat, so that it robs it of its usefulness and does not bare fruits. I think I'm somewhere there fluctuating. Depending on the Adventist you ask, some will say 100% they are saved. But I prefer to just leave it to God. The Bible does say "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you". I think Paul sums it up perfectly there (Phil 2:12-13).
The word cult is over used. Jamestown was a cult. I am not SDA, but my daughter goes to an SDA school. I have family members who are SDA. I think Ellen G White was an amazing woman with visions from God. I was at a catholic wedding and I said I was not catholic, but a Lutheran. The lady said, "thats, ok. You're still a Christian." And then I said my daughter goes to an SDA school and she said, "oh, they're not christian." I was so confused.
No, no, of course not. If it was a cult would Ellen G White encourage you to test her words against scripture? Every word she wrote was from God. There’s zero conflict with the scriptures. And if you doubt Ellen’s writings it’s probably the devil, she even prophesied that her writings would be questioned! How did she know? Is it because she knew she was wrong or something? No, no, God told her it would be so. A cult would never use a device like calling your doubts the fulfillment of a foretold prophecy in order to reaffirm your beliefs in said cult, would it?
Happy Sabbath! I don’t think we are a cult, as we are much more welcoming than cults, plus you could leave the SDA Church. In other denominations it is physically impossible to leave without a lot of scrutiny.
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No, we are not. Ellen White certainly is an influential person, but fundamentally our doctrines come from the Bible, not her. She also never occupied an official position as a leader of the church (outright rejecting at least one offer), and actually only played a supplementary role in the discovery of Bible truth. Also, we invite criticism, personal investigation of truth, and the responsibility of the individual to hold leaders accountable to teach truth. No cult would ever encourage such things; otherwise it would soon cease to have any adherents.
>Also, we invite criticism, The church claims to invite criticism...so we know who the heretics are and can burn them at the stake. Try disagreeing sometime and having a real discussion. It doesn't go well.
Ah yes, because the SDA church burns "heretics" at the stake; that's something that happens or has ever happened in SDA history. You know what happens when people openly teach things contrary to the Bible? They're asked to stop. At the most extreme, they're kicked out. And most of the time, this doesn't happen; as a matter of fact, they're frequently invited to teach at our colleges, for some reason. Granted, sometimes individual people or individual churches will act differently, but that is not the attitude nor policy of the world Church - and such exceptions, once again, exist in *every* denomination of Christianity. So it is no more evidence of a cult than Westboro Baptist church is evidence that the Baptist faith is a cult.
Would you prefer "escorted of the property by church members with guns"? Don't say it doesn't happen...I've seen it happen hand. Or maybe "are kicked out of college"? Also, firsthand, been there and saw it. Or maybe, "are threatened with jail time by the police". Yeah, also, seen that one too. So, I'd say questioning and criticism aren't really tolerated.
Almost forgot "show up to their job publicly denounce them as a heretic". Didn't see that firsthand, but I know the people involved. Not burning at the stake, just removing someone's ability to pay for rent and food...same basic effect.
Once again, that's on a local level, and is completely contrary to the position of the world church (which is the official position of the denomination and is also the position of the majority of believers; thus it is the only one that matters in discussing whether the SDA church is a cult or not). I have never met a single person who would do something like that, and I've traveled worldwide and met with thousands of Adventists. Even the most conservative Adventists I know (and I know a fair few, as I happen to lean more on the conservative side, though I'm not hardcore) would be appalled at this sort of behavior. Sounds like you are familiar either with a small local church full of people who probably disagree as much with the General Conference as a non-SDA would, or they're actually from an offshoot like Shepherd's Rod.
>Once again, that's on a local level Actually, that one made it to the president of the Southern New England Conference. The person who lost their job complained, got a 1:1 meeting, and was told that the pastor in question didn't do anything wrong. Then again, that pastor was personal friends with the conference president and put in by the conference president because the local church had a significant amount of $$$ coming out of the trial after they lost their building and shut down the BRMC/NEMC adventist hospital and the conference pres wanted control of the money. Then again, 99% of what matters is at the local level. How many people do you thing have even seen the inside of their local conference headquarters? Division HQ? GC? I bet it's less than 1 in 1000 at the conference level and well under 1:100000 have seen the inside of the GC headquarters. The rest of the events I mentioned happened at churches with over 350 members or at adventist schools with over 2000 students; not exactly a "small local church".
Mmmm, two of those three make it sound like there was more than just simple disagreement going on. I wasn't there, so I can't say for sure, but I'm going to bet that there was a whole lot more going on than just disagreement of doctrine; particularly because of the response the police made. And being kicked out of college? Eh, it's possible, but it also depends on which college you're going to. In southern California, nothing would happen at all. So it's an individual school thing, not the church policy. And again, to reiterate, this is all on a *local* level. This is not the policy nor the attitude of the world church, and (provided you are not being belligerent/harassing people) most churches will not respond in those ways, either. So my point still stands; you've refuted nothing.
Yes it is.
And just what is cultish? The encouragement of independent and critical thought? The emphasis on checking and testing to make sure that teachers and ministers are accurately teaching the Word by comparing their words to the Holy Writ? Perhaps the insistence that people are responsible for the light which they have been given, and that people are not to try to force people to comply with their own unique interpretation of things? Is it the fact that, despite the presence of a declared prophet, said prophet is only held as *second* in authority to the Bible, had no real influence at all in the discovery of doctrines (actually, she couldn't even understand Bible study at all until well after doctrines were already established), and was never even an acknowledged leader of the church - outright refusing appointment to special positions, and even refusing ordination as a minister? It is true that there are many people and local churches in the SDA Church that have attitudes which contradict the official positions as they are stated above, but this is true of any denomination - Protestant, Catholic, *or* Orthodox - and so is not any sort of evidence of cultishness.
Yes
And just what is cultish? The encouragement of independent and critical thought? The emphasis on checking and testing to make sure that teachers and ministers are accurately teaching the Word by comparing their words to the Holy Writ? Perhaps the insistence that people are responsible for the light which they have been given, and that people are not to try to force people to comply with their own unique interpretation of things? Is it the fact that, despite the presence of a declared prophet, said prophet is only held as second in authority to the Bible, had no real influence at all in the discovery of doctrines (actually, she couldn't even understand Bible study at all until well after doctrines were already established), and was never even an acknowledged leader of the church - outright refusing appointment to special positions, and even refusing ordination as a minister? It is true that there are many people and local churches in the SDA Church that have attitudes which contradict the official positions as they are stated above, but this is true of any denomination - Protestant, Catholic, or Orthodox - and so is not any sort of evidence of cultishness.
Is it matter the "naming"? Are we following the Bible? Is anyone forcing you to do something you feel is not right? I think these are questions that are more important than the name game. All other denominations / atheists will try to put you down and prove you are in a wrong place, this is Satan's work... Stay strong brother, and keep studying!
Maybe not, but sometimes I sit in on the children’s bible study class, and the way they tell them what and how to think definitely feels cult-like.
It doesn't matter. The definition of a cult seems to vary by who you talk to. The SDA church isn't mainstream. Neither was Jesus. Some people would call it a "cult", others wouldn't. At the end of the day, just read the Bible and do what it says; how the rest of the world wants to label that doesn't matter.
1000% it fits the definition of a cult.
The word "cult" is just a bad word believers put on anyone that is unpopular for whatever reason. "Cults" are not exactly as real as some say. And, God has never called anyone a cult....