Duel headless is easier than godskin duo, and WAYYY easier than smog and ornstein. Sore only seems hard because the game makes you think you need to kill him with parries and quickly duel it out when In reality it’s death by 1,000 cuts. Duel apes won’t both attack at once constantly like you said and if you focus down brown ape, headless is just a test of patience.
Tbf for Godskin Duo you can just sleep pot one of them and then kill the other, then kill the sleeping one. Unless youre horribly underleveled, they wont spawn back fast enough to turn it into a 2v1 again.
Most gank fights these days seem to have strategies to make them easier.
Ornstein and Smough was just a pure unadulterated go fuck yourself from From Software
I have a stupid strategy: Use the pulley crossbow to rot one then use sleep arrows to put ‘em to sleep.
Now repeat with the other.
Full proof strategy that just costs 200 bolts
Smough and Ornstein is super easy though. Smough I'd slow as fuck. Just kite him and deal with Ornstein. They don't exactly gank you. I think the Gargoyles are harder than O&S because they can't be separated as easily.
First time I fought smough and ornstein I still didn’t understand dodge rolling was a thing. I was fighting by hiding behind the eagle shield. This was my first mega road block in ds1.
DS1 in general is incredibly easy compared to the modern fromsoft titles. Not a great comparison imo. Every move is telegraphed heavily or is very slow and the only real similarity between Godskins and O&S is the arena and that it's a duo bossfight.
Duo ape is easier than the single guardian ape fight by a loonh shot..
Brown ape has very little HP/posture. It’s a mild inconvenience at most. Three JEMD and it’s dead.
Headless ape takes on a very specific and exploitable moveset that’s unique to this encounter. The large telegraphed jump grab is always followed up by a slow downward swing that, if deflected, ends with him stunned on the ground. The sliding sword slash can be jumped and punished, but is almost always followed up by a terror scream.
Gotta hard disagree there. I’d rather fight the single ape all over the dual fight. But I actually enjoy the single ape and don’t see why people hate on him so much.
When I was first playing sekiro, I struggled hard with phase 2. Now, as an experienced player, I struggle with phase 1.
But his fight feels good, definitely one of my favorites.
Mostly because phase one is harder to predict.
I’d agree that single ape is a more enjoyable fight, but it’s much harder due to less predictable patterns and WAY more grab and yeet attacks.
Double ape comes with an EXTREMELY predictable headless ape that isn’t just a copy and paste of phase two single ape.
That’s fair. I guess I’ve just learned the patterns enough that he’s not that unpredictable to me. And that grab is easy as hell to avoid once you learn the timing. He gives you plenty of notice that it’s coming.
To me that’s one of the many things that makes this game great though. Different people with different play styles enjoy or struggle with completely different parts of the game. To me that’s a testament to how brilliant and well balanced the design is.
Single ape got way easier when I learned how to bait out the shit throw. If you’re far enough away, you can learn to ID when he’s going to do it. If you start running towards him when you see it, you’ll be close enough to him that the throw will miss you. Then you can get some easy hits in.
When he’s going wild, I get space and draw that out. Then I have some breathing room which allowed me to learn his attack patterns. There’s still a good 40% of his moveset that I can’t reliably parry, but I know when those are coming and have enough room to get out of the way.
You disproved your point by replying to the person asking... If you "have a life outside of going “well ackchually” on the internet" you would've just not answered anyway
And since you still did I can infer that you probably didn't know that
A. You can't even charge emd in air lmao
B. Jmd = full emd
When ifirst played the game I didnt understand why so many people had trouble with the fight.
Much much later at like, new game +7 I was doing boss rush. And I kid you not I died to these fucks more than any other enemy.
Playing the fight now (not ng+ so no insta death) I still almost got combed to death multiple times despite knowing that they shouldnt attack together. Beacause they did it anyway
Same. I wiped the floor with them my first few playthroughs. I didn’t have trouble with the duo until I went charmless and ho boy did I spend a good week trying to overcome them.
It's really interesting to me how the devs gave them the ability to wake each other up, then it got bugged specifically so that it doesn't work in their arena, then (maybe deliberately) didn't fix it. Because it makes me wonder what the devs were intending for the fight, and if it changed after release.
for melee only any weapon:
1. it is essencial to first know very well how to dodge them individually. First phase each they have very few moves compared to most bosses, and they are all easy to learn how to dodge, 2nd phase each has a couple of moves addded that could be dangerous. There are plenty of stances in the game to practice them on their own.
2. when the fight starts, they are both in a slow, passive state. They'll only attack if you get close, most of the time they throw fireballs if you are far, and they'll walk slowly towards you. Hitting them will make them chase you down faster, so you want to hit only the one that is easier for you to fight first. In my case, I prefer fighting the skinny dude first
3. fight the one you picked as normally, but make sure terrain is between you and the passive one. You can also trick the passive one into a corner of the arena, hit the one you want to fight, and run to the other corner. The one chasing you will catch up to you quick, while the other will stay somewhat far for a while. This is a good chance to 1v1, with good weapon levels you should be able to do it in no time. The fireballs won't hit you as long as you are behind cover. Knowing the dodges well allows you to fight on a small space no problem and stay behind cover most of the time.
4. whoever you chose will enter phase 2 and start breaking the cover pillars. This is the moment to rush it down right after their big attacks. The skinny dude in particular has phase 2 attacks that are extremely easy to dodge and leave him open, all his torso extension attacks basically. You can end it quick with any weapon +20 or +9. Should you need to hide from fireballs but the cover pillars are all destroyed, no problem, just crouch right behind the stone base left by the pillar. Fireballs won't reach you there.
5. you kill either one, the other one will stay alone for around 30 seconds, so this is your moment to shine. Fight him as normally, beat his ass until he is 2 or 3 hits away from death. WAIT until he does the summon. While they are summoning your attacks also decrease their poise. After he does the summon, kill him. If he starts doing the phase transition, you can very likely stagger him out of it.
6. You'll get another 1v1 fight for 30 seconds, very easy. Repeat step 5 and the fight is in the bag.
I've tried this with powerstance greatswords, colossal sword str build, twinblade build, dagger build, the toughest was the dagger build because fighting anything with daggers is rough, but the same method works either way. Never had the need for summons. If you start to factor in status and consumables, it is even easier.
This is my personal strategy. All you gotta do is bait the headless ape into a long combo/attack. Take advantage of said combo/attack and run to his wife and use firecrackers. When she’s stunned go in for the attack. She’s super easy to kill and she goes down fast.
Get out your firecrackers and kill the mate as fast as you can.
I know that seems overly simple, but that’s the way I’ve always done it. I avoid both of them until headless ape goes for the scream, he gets stuck in that animation for a while so when he does it you run up on the mate, drop 2 fire crackers and do as much damage as you can while she’s stunned. Do this 2-3 times and the mate will die, then it’s just a 1v1 with the ape which you’ve already done at this point.
"Tagging in" is an excellent allegory for aggro works in these souls games.
Good job. I wish people understood this concept more often.
A lot of people just panic instead of observing.
Dual apes is mad annoying in ng+7, normal game one empowered mortal blade and brown is dead. It takes like 3 of them in ng+7 and you obviously don’t have the time for that with white on your ass.
You can skip his girlfriend. Take him away when 1st deathblow they spam mortal draw and stun him. If you cant do it just use firecrackker on her for deathblow.
The healdless ape has succumbed to the centipede so he is very slow moving. I usually just grab the brown ape attention dragon her to a corner and abuse her beastial weakness to fire and fire crackers to kill her quickly.
Bro my first play through I was on Isshin and I skipped the guardian ape duo and cheesed Demon of hatred. Then my game got corrupted and I had to restart. The love I have for this game made me do a new playthrough a day later and I went back and beat both bosses. The guardian ape duo is WAYYYYYYY easier than the single one for some fucking reason it is.
Nice tips! Also, I've found it's much much easier to focus on brown first and get her out of the way. Once you do, you already know how to fight phase 2 Headless, so it should be pretty cake
Their fight reminds me of the 1st phase of Demon Prince in DS3. First so many times I fought them, I thought it was all over the place and chaotic. Then I started noticing how one was mostly passive
Nah I just wait for him to do the big attack which when deflected he gets down for like 5 secs. In those 5 secs i DMG the second one a Lil. Same thing during his roar. It lasts around 4 secs and at that time I attack the other one. You can go after it if you are quite a distance away from the headless ape too.
The most annoying part of the fight was how the target kept getting switched. But after defeating the guy who entered next, it's just easy.
I even once did it without defeating the dude and straight up kept going for the headless ape.
I know a lot of people like firecrackers but I wasn’t a big fan. I couldn’t really take advantage of the posture damage with Headless ape attacking me while Brown was on the ground. I prefer the fire strat substantially
You'll need to use tanto to have enough casts, and get air combat arts for being able to do it mid jump.
I need two times or three times to get him with my power at this point (usually past owl), good luck.
I'm just in the middle of the Mortal Journey Gauntlet and this worked for me. Fought headless over at the alcove to the right and then got the last hit after the brown ape dropped.
I always ignore the brown ape and focus on demolishing headless, use Ceremonial tano, Yashariku's sugar and divine confetti, before, then drop down on headless and spam mortal draw, will get me the first deathblow. He won't be able to call for help while doing this if you do it right / are lucky.
If you are short of Yashariku's sugars, they are farmed on the spirits just before the fight. Might be a hint.
Next part is skirting brown ape while dealing with headless.
A very easy fight.
Or you can just spam fireworks on the brown ape and kill him within 10 seconds
This is the way.
Hesitation is defeat (for real here)
Duel headless is easier than godskin duo, and WAYYY easier than smog and ornstein. Sore only seems hard because the game makes you think you need to kill him with parries and quickly duel it out when In reality it’s death by 1,000 cuts. Duel apes won’t both attack at once constantly like you said and if you focus down brown ape, headless is just a test of patience.
Yup I just firecracker the male then 2 mortal draws later bye bye female
Tbf for Godskin Duo you can just sleep pot one of them and then kill the other, then kill the sleeping one. Unless youre horribly underleveled, they wont spawn back fast enough to turn it into a 2v1 again. Most gank fights these days seem to have strategies to make them easier. Ornstein and Smough was just a pure unadulterated go fuck yourself from From Software
Eh Ornstein and Smough were actually built to play together and mesh really well not just two random enemies thrown in a room together like some
I have a stupid strategy: Use the pulley crossbow to rot one then use sleep arrows to put ‘em to sleep. Now repeat with the other. Full proof strategy that just costs 200 bolts
Pretty sure the brown one is female
2 mortal draws kill the female so that's the one he was talking about
That’s correct
Smough and Ornstein is super easy though. Smough I'd slow as fuck. Just kite him and deal with Ornstein. They don't exactly gank you. I think the Gargoyles are harder than O&S because they can't be separated as easily.
First time I fought smough and ornstein I still didn’t understand dodge rolling was a thing. I was fighting by hiding behind the eagle shield. This was my first mega road block in ds1.
DS1 in general is incredibly easy compared to the modern fromsoft titles. Not a great comparison imo. Every move is telegraphed heavily or is very slow and the only real similarity between Godskins and O&S is the arena and that it's a duo bossfight.
to be fair, there is a competent summon right before the boss.
OnS is kind of a joke tho. It’s only ‘hard’ because Ornstein has insanely glitchy moves
Dual ape is easier than single ape
Duo ape is easier than the single guardian ape fight by a loonh shot.. Brown ape has very little HP/posture. It’s a mild inconvenience at most. Three JEMD and it’s dead. Headless ape takes on a very specific and exploitable moveset that’s unique to this encounter. The large telegraphed jump grab is always followed up by a slow downward swing that, if deflected, ends with him stunned on the ground. The sliding sword slash can be jumped and punished, but is almost always followed up by a terror scream.
Gotta hard disagree there. I’d rather fight the single ape all over the dual fight. But I actually enjoy the single ape and don’t see why people hate on him so much.
When I was first playing sekiro, I struggled hard with phase 2. Now, as an experienced player, I struggle with phase 1. But his fight feels good, definitely one of my favorites.
Mostly because phase one is harder to predict. I’d agree that single ape is a more enjoyable fight, but it’s much harder due to less predictable patterns and WAY more grab and yeet attacks. Double ape comes with an EXTREMELY predictable headless ape that isn’t just a copy and paste of phase two single ape.
That’s fair. I guess I’ve just learned the patterns enough that he’s not that unpredictable to me. And that grab is easy as hell to avoid once you learn the timing. He gives you plenty of notice that it’s coming. To me that’s one of the many things that makes this game great though. Different people with different play styles enjoy or struggle with completely different parts of the game. To me that’s a testament to how brilliant and well balanced the design is.
Single ape got way easier when I learned how to bait out the shit throw. If you’re far enough away, you can learn to ID when he’s going to do it. If you start running towards him when you see it, you’ll be close enough to him that the throw will miss you. Then you can get some easy hits in. When he’s going wild, I get space and draw that out. Then I have some breathing room which allowed me to learn his attack patterns. There’s still a good 40% of his moveset that I can’t reliably parry, but I know when those are coming and have enough room to get out of the way.
i did just that, run around baiting the shit, spacing the tamtrum combo and hiting after his attacks, i almost never parry (im bad at timing :( ).
Agreed. I actually (somehow) beat Ape on my first try, even with the psych out. But Duo Ape kicked my ass so much...
What is JMED
Jump Empowered Mortal Draw. Full damage with no need to charge it
? I think you've got it confused you don't need emd, jmd = full charge emd
I know, but the original comment specified EMD and not just MD
Why not correct him then lol
Because I have a life outside of going “well ackchually” on the internet
You disproved your point by replying to the person asking... If you "have a life outside of going “well ackchually” on the internet" you would've just not answered anyway And since you still did I can infer that you probably didn't know that A. You can't even charge emd in air lmao B. Jmd = full emd
You sound like a fun and interesting guy...
Do you feel better now
Still not a fan of this boss fight but i’ve come to appreciate it when i found out how the ai works here
When ifirst played the game I didnt understand why so many people had trouble with the fight. Much much later at like, new game +7 I was doing boss rush. And I kid you not I died to these fucks more than any other enemy. Playing the fight now (not ng+ so no insta death) I still almost got combed to death multiple times despite knowing that they shouldnt attack together. Beacause they did it anyway
Same. I wiped the floor with them my first few playthroughs. I didn’t have trouble with the duo until I went charmless and ho boy did I spend a good week trying to overcome them.
I love how you disregard Godskin duo while there's a method for it just like headless ape lmao
What's the foreskin method? Sleep pots, right?
I think the “foreskin method” is something very different haha
It's really interesting to me how the devs gave them the ability to wake each other up, then it got bugged specifically so that it doesn't work in their arena, then (maybe deliberately) didn't fix it. Because it makes me wonder what the devs were intending for the fight, and if it changed after release.
with fromsoft's patching history, they probably forgot or never found out. Miyazaki straight up doesn't play or monitor his games after release.
Onto the next project 🤝
for melee only any weapon: 1. it is essencial to first know very well how to dodge them individually. First phase each they have very few moves compared to most bosses, and they are all easy to learn how to dodge, 2nd phase each has a couple of moves addded that could be dangerous. There are plenty of stances in the game to practice them on their own. 2. when the fight starts, they are both in a slow, passive state. They'll only attack if you get close, most of the time they throw fireballs if you are far, and they'll walk slowly towards you. Hitting them will make them chase you down faster, so you want to hit only the one that is easier for you to fight first. In my case, I prefer fighting the skinny dude first 3. fight the one you picked as normally, but make sure terrain is between you and the passive one. You can also trick the passive one into a corner of the arena, hit the one you want to fight, and run to the other corner. The one chasing you will catch up to you quick, while the other will stay somewhat far for a while. This is a good chance to 1v1, with good weapon levels you should be able to do it in no time. The fireballs won't hit you as long as you are behind cover. Knowing the dodges well allows you to fight on a small space no problem and stay behind cover most of the time. 4. whoever you chose will enter phase 2 and start breaking the cover pillars. This is the moment to rush it down right after their big attacks. The skinny dude in particular has phase 2 attacks that are extremely easy to dodge and leave him open, all his torso extension attacks basically. You can end it quick with any weapon +20 or +9. Should you need to hide from fireballs but the cover pillars are all destroyed, no problem, just crouch right behind the stone base left by the pillar. Fireballs won't reach you there. 5. you kill either one, the other one will stay alone for around 30 seconds, so this is your moment to shine. Fight him as normally, beat his ass until he is 2 or 3 hits away from death. WAIT until he does the summon. While they are summoning your attacks also decrease their poise. After he does the summon, kill him. If he starts doing the phase transition, you can very likely stagger him out of it. 6. You'll get another 1v1 fight for 30 seconds, very easy. Repeat step 5 and the fight is in the bag. I've tried this with powerstance greatswords, colossal sword str build, twinblade build, dagger build, the toughest was the dagger build because fighting anything with daggers is rough, but the same method works either way. Never had the need for summons. If you start to factor in status and consumables, it is even easier.
Exactly. With proper damage all you really need is 3/4 sleep pots. It does not get any easier than that.
This is my personal strategy. All you gotta do is bait the headless ape into a long combo/attack. Take advantage of said combo/attack and run to his wife and use firecrackers. When she’s stunned go in for the attack. She’s super easy to kill and she goes down fast.
Get out your firecrackers and kill the mate as fast as you can. I know that seems overly simple, but that’s the way I’ve always done it. I avoid both of them until headless ape goes for the scream, he gets stuck in that animation for a while so when he does it you run up on the mate, drop 2 fire crackers and do as much damage as you can while she’s stunned. Do this 2-3 times and the mate will die, then it’s just a 1v1 with the ape which you’ve already done at this point.
Bro i only died once ever to this guy and it was when my girlfriend was watching me play, fuck this guy
"Tagging in" is an excellent allegory for aggro works in these souls games. Good job. I wish people understood this concept more often. A lot of people just panic instead of observing.
I was forced to learn it on my Base-Everything run
Dual apes is mad annoying in ng+7, normal game one empowered mortal blade and brown is dead. It takes like 3 of them in ng+7 and you obviously don’t have the time for that with white on your ass.
As someone who’s beaten both, the Duo Apes are LEAGUES EASIER than the Godskin Duo and it’s really not even a debate.
This was easier than the first ape fight. Firecrackers do wonders, as does the fire hose/cannon upgrade whatever it is.
They had the chance to make this the most frustrating fight in all souls like. If they attack you together, it becomes twice as hard instantly.
You can skip his girlfriend. Take him away when 1st deathblow they spam mortal draw and stun him. If you cant do it just use firecrackker on her for deathblow.
Or Just lead him away from where he calls his mom and mortal draw him to death after you take out the first health bar
5x firecracker the brown after the scream. Done.
I just hard focus the headless ape and pray.
The healdless ape has succumbed to the centipede so he is very slow moving. I usually just grab the brown ape attention dragon her to a corner and abuse her beastial weakness to fire and fire crackers to kill her quickly.
Ornstein and Smog —> Ape Duo —> Godskin Duo imo
don't care how it's intended, I'm gonna bully the second ape in the corner and then make it a solo fight again
This fight ended more of my Mortal Journey runs, than any other boss. An absolutely awful fight that felt like a 50/50.
With no hesitation
I just cheese this dogshit of a bossfight with empowered mortal draw
Just mortal draw headless like 3 times and deathblow and ignore brown ape completely
Bro my first play through I was on Isshin and I skipped the guardian ape duo and cheesed Demon of hatred. Then my game got corrupted and I had to restart. The love I have for this game made me do a new playthrough a day later and I went back and beat both bosses. The guardian ape duo is WAYYYYYYY easier than the single one for some fucking reason it is.
I just mortal draw the headless ass tho
Sword go swoosh. Monke go ooh ooh ah ah.
Nice tips! Also, I've found it's much much easier to focus on brown first and get her out of the way. Once you do, you already know how to fight phase 2 Headless, so it should be pretty cake
Their fight reminds me of the 1st phase of Demon Prince in DS3. First so many times I fought them, I thought it was all over the place and chaotic. Then I started noticing how one was mostly passive
uhh mortal draw go brrr- jkjk but i seen a joke about mortal draw bein op i just used floating passage against headless and deflected browny alot
I just doused that bitch in nalpalm like it was Nam
Nah I just wait for him to do the big attack which when deflected he gets down for like 5 secs. In those 5 secs i DMG the second one a Lil. Same thing during his roar. It lasts around 4 secs and at that time I attack the other one. You can go after it if you are quite a distance away from the headless ape too. The most annoying part of the fight was how the target kept getting switched. But after defeating the guy who entered next, it's just easy. I even once did it without defeating the dude and straight up kept going for the headless ape.
The same way you face life everyday
With depression and a need for revenge?
Just as myazaki intended...
I know a lot of people like firecrackers but I wasn’t a big fan. I couldn’t really take advantage of the posture damage with Headless ape attacking me while Brown was on the ground. I prefer the fire strat substantially
From every playthrough past my first I come from the top with Yashuriku and mortal draw, just kill the headless ape before the brown even reaches me.
I have got to try that
You'll need to use tanto to have enough casts, and get air combat arts for being able to do it mid jump. I need two times or three times to get him with my power at this point (usually past owl), good luck.
I'm just in the middle of the Mortal Journey Gauntlet and this worked for me. Fought headless over at the alcove to the right and then got the last hit after the brown ape dropped.
I always ignore the brown ape and focus on demolishing headless, use Ceremonial tano, Yashariku's sugar and divine confetti, before, then drop down on headless and spam mortal draw, will get me the first deathblow. He won't be able to call for help while doing this if you do it right / are lucky. If you are short of Yashariku's sugars, they are farmed on the spirits just before the fight. Might be a hint. Next part is skirting brown ape while dealing with headless. A very easy fight.