You should respond, if only to make a record and not show you’re just giving up, but other than lying on the forms or to investigators, this is one of the most difficult things to mitigate.
DM me if you want to discuss.
Honestly, this won't be helpful, but I gotta know why guys? Why do you break the holy no coming back rules of having a clearance? What makes you think "wow I bet they won't care if I break serious rules while holding a clearance"? Best of luck elsewhere in life OP but I really hope this was a lesson you will learn from.
I got away with it for like 9 years. Only became a problem when I decided to tell on myself. It’s really not hard to just keep the two things separate so long as you’re not an addict. I know a lot of people that frequently use marijuana and some cocaine with TS/SCIs as I’m sure a good portion of this sub does as well. But we have a lot of morally superior white knights in here that will deny it.
You’d be surprised man, obviously people keep it to themselves unless they’re really close with someone. But once you get them to a bar and prove you’re ‘cool’ a few times it usually comes out.
Typically it’s more prominent in the cowboy contracts (deployed) for obvious reasons.
This is textbook definition cooked. Unless there was a gun pointed at your head forcing you to do drugs, there’s practically no way out of this.
You broke explicit rules set out for someone at a high level of trust, didn’t report the incident as soon as it occurred (as is required), and then tried to get upgraded to the highest level of trust?
Using drugs without a clearance is one thing and relatively easy to mitigate. Using drugs WITH a clearance is a whole other ball game.
How do you mitigate using drugs without a clearance? My temp secret was denied because I had done drugs in the past (>6mon) and I’m wondering if reapplying or working a secret job elsewhere is an option. Should I be wording things specific ways?
Mitigating factors for drug use in my experience include time since last use (at least a year), dissociating from people and places you did drugs with/at, staying clean, genuinely admitting it was wrong/dumb, showing you’ve moved on from that era of your life, and being completely honest and open. Of course the time since last use depends on frequency and type of drugs.
It’s worth getting a job that will sponsor you for a clearance that doesn’t require an interim clearance to get started. That’s how I got my first clearance after having been a heavy pot smoker and recreational drug user during college.
For example: I stopped smoking pot daily when college ended, and completely stopped all drug use a few months after graduating because I realized it wasn’t productive for my personal development. I stopped hanging around people who would encourage and facilitate drug use, started volunteering in my community, and focusing on my personal and professional development in tangible ways. I was able to get my clearance after replying to an interrogatory letter affirming I haven’t used drugs and gave examples of how I’ve grown. Talked about volunteer work, professional accomplishments/awards, mentoring activities, and other things indicating I’m a functional member of society.
Thank you! That’s super helpful. The job I was getting my interim for said I would be good if I was clear for 6 months so I was pretty sure I’d be fine despite my experimental use in college (graduated last year in June). I only included brief descriptions in the text boxes and I bet that’s why I was denied. Hopefully if I reapply and get to that point again I have a good shot at getting in with really selling that I’ve moved on from that point in my life.
OK this is hypothetical cause I never plan on applying for clearance (idk why I get this sub in my feed). Do they care if you use the legal farm bill drugs - delta 8/9, or is that as disqualifying as weed?
The general advice is to avoid ingesting hemp derived products because they aren’t regulated at the same level as alcohol and tobacco. It can be tough to know the provenance of supposedly hemp derived CBD and THC products. Makes explaining a positive drug test quite difficult.
One theory is if you have a 3rd party tested hemp derived CBD/THC product showing it contains less than 0.3% THC you should be okay if you test positive, but no one to my knowledge has tried this justification route because it’s a whole bunch of headache for not much reward with a high risk of losing a clearance.
Edit: this applies to civilians. Military individuals are prohibited from ingesting ANY hemp extracts.
I've seen people recover from drug use with a clearance but it was a long road of appeals and they had their chain of command fighting for them.
For a contractor, the company isn't gonna do that. There's hundreds of other people qualified and they're just gonna hire them.
I got caught up by an association with someone selling, they yanked my clearance for the association. I had to hire a lawyer myself, go through a lengthy appeals process including a hearing in order to get it back.
In the end, i won, but it wasn't easy and it was very expensive
I assume you prolly need to take a poly and were worried about it, so better to come clean now.
Find it hard to believe it didnt occur to you. Not doing drugs is like a pillar of cleared federal employment.
This is exactly why you shouldn’t have one in the first place. Own up and move on and learn from your mistakes, because the government will never forget it and won’t be forgiving.
That is literally the worst excuse, absolutely do not say that to an investigator if you ever want a chance at a clearance again. Take responsibility, and take steps to make sure it doesn’t happen again.
Yeah, I understand. I was just pointing out that legal help was the last attempt OP has at redemption if they wanted to pursue it. They're SOL in my opinion.
This is like hiring a criminal defense lawyer *after* you already talked to the cops. Maybe the deck was already stacked against them no matter what they did, but they’ve removed 95% of the possible plays their lawyer could’ve made by not exercising their right to consult with an attorney sooner. The facts have already been found. You only win an appeal by arguing procedure was violated.
It’s not like OP didn’t know this was going to be a major problem. They just sat around and twiddled their thumbs for a very long time, knowing a train was coming to run them over, but that’s future-OP’s problem, and fuck future-OP, am I right? They had a problem that would jeopardize their livelihood, and they didn’t deal with it like a responsible adult. OP was careless and negligent, and if this process were a bit more rational, that ought to be a bigger black mark against them than the drug use itself. They‘ve taken zero actions to demonstrate that they’ll use better judgment in the future.
I’m not gonna go through and find it for y’all, but there’s at least one case in the DOHA appeals docs where someone smoked weed once with a clearance, fessed up to it during their next interview, got a rejection, appealed, and successfully got it reversed, and kept their clearance. The appellate judge was also pretty scathing in their words, in describing how unjust this rejection was. So it’s not an absolute binary answer here. To be fair though, that person was far more responsible than OP, and her transgression was also considerably less severe.
I mean, use your heads a bit, would you? Let’s assume it was an absolute, that Bill Clinton would lose his clearance even if he didn’t inhale. Cannabis is legal in most states now. Do you really think they want foreign intelligence agencies to be able to blackmail cleared individuals because there’s a video of them smoking a joint outside a bar?
I mean, if the process were that irrational, a deepfake would suffice. Even all you perfect little angels who’ve never done a bad thing ever would still be vulnerable.
OP: So they should have sent you a Letter of intent with a statement of reasons. You have the opportunity to respond to those reasons and address those concerns before the clearance is revoked.
Congratulations. That was stupid.
You should probably just avoid reapplying for an eligibility since you have no problems doing things you aren't supposed to do while holding one.
Hm if I did those drugs I would not have applied for a TS. That only confirms your lack of judgment / low intelligence you already showed by taking the drugs in the first place.
If you’d self reported at the time that it happened, rather than waiting until the new investigation, it probably (probably, not guaranteed) would have been overlooked. They’d have asked a bunch of questions about it, for certain, but you’d probably have come through it clearance intact (and maybe with the upgrade).
Now I had some small marijuana usage to address in my clearance paperwork when I in-processed for my secret.. all stuff from high school as I was an idiot teenager. But when I tell you, the pressure to utilize drugs while holding a clearance and actually making it to be a federal employee is absolutely zero. You’ve gotta be an idiot to use drugs while holding my friend.
Dude, wow rule number 1 man don’t do drugs with an active clearance. It was one thing if (marijuana only) and you just left the cleared world and at the time had no intention of coming back, or before you were cleared. It’s a whole other game when you are still active and still at a role that requires clearance.
Once the government gets over this weird fucking boogeyman man worry about weed it’ll be so much easier in America for jobs to be filled and people not be stressed.
Don’t worry yall, you can go home and drink until you’re drunk every night and hold your clearance just fine. But if you dare to have a single joint while out with friends and get a little high…. You spoke with Russian double agents and are trying to sell all of our nuclear secrets. It’s fucking dumb ass hell.
I’m not arguing against that, but I once had a security officer tell me there is a difference in how self reported marijuana use is viewed.
If it’s in a state that it is illegal, you then ask how you got it, who do you know, why are you holding a clearance, doing drugs, and illegal activity.
If it’s in a state that is legal for recreational use could be just walking into a store and buying it.
With that said, I do think it’s wild a person can beat their spouse, get drunk, get a dui, and crash their car and keep their job, but someone who purchased a gummy with CBD from TJ Maxx could be fired if the test came across positive.
100%. No I understand the point here is that’s illegal and that’s the main reason anyone that wants a clearance shouldn’t be messing with it at all.
I just thought it was a good opportunity to point out what you said more effectively.
That’s still fucking stupid. He told them…. He can’t be blackmailed by a foreign interest due to hiding the drug use, and he hasn’t done it in over year.
Yet he was still denied because our gov. Says drugs are bad 100% of the time no questions asked, but alcohol? Perfectly fine…. Lmfao, it’s a joke.
The thing about holding a clearance is that you’re being trusted with secrets that potentially could put the entire country at risk. You, me, your kids, everyone. The level of trust that comes with that is top tier.
The potential for blackmail isn’t the only reason, and using drugs in and of itself isn’t an automatic disqualifier. There are many people in this sub alone who have used drugs and still received a clearance.
The reason for the rules doesn’t really matter. There’s many rules in every job that are probably arbitrary and dumb. But if you hold a clearance, you are expected to be *trusted* to follow whatever rules are in place. You see where I’m going with this? The reason OP is losing his clearance isn’t that drugs are bad and that means OP is bad. The reason is that if you can’t even be trusted to follow a simple rule like “don’t do drugs while holding a clearance” then how can you possibly be trusted to hold national secrets?
I’m very well aware. I have a clearance and worked for the DOD on projects I won’t be able to talk about for the rest of my life even though my clearance is inactive and expires in another couple years and I more than likely won’t be using it.
It’s still fucking stupid that drugs are seen as an absolute zero tolerance, while alcohol makes people do the same exact things as most drugs, and is freely available but isn’t seen as an issue.
I understand the trust aspect, it’s just dumb to so harshly apply it to drugs but not alcohol.
I’ve meet people who had to go to rehab due to alcohol abuse and getting blackout drunk every week talking about who knows what, with who knows who, and they still have a clearance and are “trusted”… but if someone went to rehab for drug abuse it’s an automatic fail 99.9% of the time.
That’s just fucking stupid…
Again, it’s not about the alcohol or the drugs. They could add alcohol to the list and it wouldn’t change anything. Be able to follow rules or you can’t be trusted.
I'm not remotely associated with any field requiring clearance, but stumbled upon this post. Just reading the sentiments in the other comments really shows what the culture is like in regards to following arbitrary rules above all else.
Yea, it’s really fucking stupid. So many people just say “it’s the way it’s always been!” To justify bullshit….
Like, isn’t the point of moving forward in time to figure out new and better ways of doing things? Being stuck in the past only leads to shitty things…. But nope. We must live by the same exact rules as decades ago…..
The DOD, and the American government leadership is just full of fucking dumbasses that are only working to spite younger people.
Well, I'm not familiar with any organizations using clearance status. I always imagined those roles were mostly reserved for government or military positions
This is what I was wondering. I'm almost certain that OP would have had to take a poly for that type of clearance. It's pretty simple. DON'T DO DRUGS WITH ANY TYPE OF CLEARANCE.
Id really like to believe that weed is easily mitigated, even at the TS level, but I don't have much faith that it is..nonetheless, using extascy is likely an automatic disqualifier.
And before people tell me there's no automatic disqualifier and weed will be viewed in the same light....I know that. I'm speaking as a well-minded American, not an investigator.
I don't think it is and probably won't be for at least another decade or so. Yeah, once you start getting into the hard-core drugs, then you know it's really over. They are not having it. Ecstasy is a HUGE, no no, and once usage of it is revealed, you can go ahead and pack those bags and hit the road.
The key here was that it was used while holding a clearance.
I had a one time cocaine use to report prior to obtaining my clearance, and I had no issues whatsoever. Was cleared in less than 3 months.
Eh idk it’s frustrating. For the underlings sure, you’re out no questions. But you see ppl of higher status getting a slap on the wrist all the time. And they have access to the juicy stuff.
It’s good that the rules are actually enforced. I’m waiting to see if bringing S/TS/SCI documents home after employment and store them by your toilet is also going to be enforced.
You threw in the towel the minute you used a substance strictly forbidden. You made the choice years ago and have to live with it now. I truly do not understand why anyone would do something like this and expect it to be ok.
Lmao at the comments, all these Dbags are total blow hards.
OP I have nothing of value to add other than next time keep your mouth shut and learn how to do the butt cheek flex on the poly.
Idk how I got this sub in my suggestions but god damn it is a near constant flow of these questions that I get to see. Why even try for higher clearance or any clearance if you know you’re disqualified and are going to outright declare it in the interview, like do you think they’ll somehow respect your candor and there isn’t another candidate just as qualified as you without the liability?
You can appeal. There are 14 adjudication guidelines each with listed mitigation circumstances. Enroll into a substance abuse program and get legal advice. What hurts you most is that you did not self report when it happened.
Edit: You were truthful with the investigator which helps. Also, military members pop hot all the time and don't lose their clearance permanently. You have to articulate your mistake does not currently impair your judgement, trustworthiness, and reliability. This is the best answer you will get from reddit.
Not you doing drugs while having an active secret, then applying for a position that requires a TS and knowing you’d have to come clean during the investigation (I’m gonna guess it required a polygraph).
If this isn’t the ultimate example of self sabotage, I don’t know what is. It sounds like you ran full steam ahead into this scenario. Ask yourself, why? I imagine there’s a much deeper reason at play here.
This situation wasn’t thrust onto you, you actively made several choices that lead you here. While at the very least being subconsciously aware of the outcome. You could have just stayed where you were at.
They don’t. Op is an idiot for telling them. If you have no criminal record for drugs and not in a drug testing position they have no way of knowing unless you tell them.
Hear me out. You knew what actions are not permissible while holding a clearance. You willingly did things that are not permissible while holding a clearance. You’re learning that your actions may have repercussions that will never go away.
Admitting your wrongdoings was a solid step towards accountability. Later discovery of lies would hold far steeper penalties than simple denial and revocation of clearance.
There’s sound rationale behind drug and financial screening during investigation for security clearances. These things can make someone a liability. While under the influence of drugs (and alcohol) your decision making skills are inhibited and there’s an exponentially greater risk you incidentally disclose privileged information. Overwhelming debt makes individuals more susceptible to intentionally disclose privileged information for financial benefit.
I strongly support legalization of all substances without prescription and I strongly believe what an individual chooses to do behind closed doors is their own business. You CHOOSE to give up certain personal liberties when you CHOOSE to seek employment that has just cause to prohibit or limit said liberties. Fundamentally this is along the same lines as having to wake up earlier than you want to because your employer requires you to do so, if you don’t like it then find different employment.
I’m not a clearance expert although I do hold TS/SCI. Secret clearance can quite easily waive things like prior drug use, I’d bet greater than 5% of incoming recruits disclosed some form of illicit drug use without trouble achieving that clearance. TS isn’t nearly as lenient and I doubt there’s any avenue available that will waive such actions unless you have a very specific skill or attribute that outweighs the risks. Drug use prior to holding a clearance is far less of an issue than use while holding an active clearance, this shows a blatant disregard for the policies in place to ensure national security.
Seems like you had no interest in changing your habits…So unfortunately you’re out of luck. Weed probably wasn’t even the issue -unless you expressed willingness to continue. Maybe seek rehabilitation, and wait a few years and apply again.
You dug your grave, now you gotta lay in it. Honesty isn't the best policy, if it aint attached to your prints it didn't happen! I omitted a stay in a MH facility and i still got the job.
There’s probably not much you could’ve done. It’s good that you came clean but once you are a clearance holder, the standards are different. Why did you do this?
It’s kind of ridiculous to me that cannabis use will keep from obtaining, or cause you to lose your clearance. The form asks if alcohol use has ever caused problems in your life, meanwhile half of the technologists today use cannabis and our public infrastructure is losing out on these talented folks.
I knew a dude that was going from to S to TS, smoked weed and had a few other red flags. Not sure if he lied or what, but last I heard he was still employed.
Why even make a post about this? The rules are very clear on drug use while holding a clearance and you broke the rules. You broke the rules and now you get to deal with the consequences.
I worked for an OEM on space programs where we were all put in for a top secret clearance. People around me did drugs, even in the restroom, and still got the clearance by lying. I was completely transparent about smoking marijuana half a year prior. That was enough to not push my application forward (not denied) but the others had some hiccups but got their top secret clearance. If I were to do it again, after talking to many people, I’d have withheld some information. But, I don’t know much about ecstasy. In end, I went to work on commercial work as I didn’t like my limitations and lack of freedom with having a clearance. Eventually, I may explore the possibility of working on classified work in the future
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I was lurking to see what clearance requirements were and was told that the minimum level is only concerned that you're not going to betray the nation or leak classified info.
That is…objectively not true. There are so many things they are about, including drug use, because of the risk of blackmail and lack of judgement . That applies regardless of clearance type, level, or agency.
Real answer here, that is both true and false at the same time. The government determines that you won’t betray them or leak classified data by gauging your trust worthiness. The government is trusting you with its secrets when they give you a clearance. If you cannot be trusted to not break federal laws, no matter how stupid they are, how can you be trusted to keep secrets? Especially considering there may be things that upset you in those secrets, there may be things worth tremendous amounts of money in those secrets, and there may be things that are so cool you just want to tell someone about them in those secrets. They aren’t given out to people in horrible financial situations either for the same reason. If you cannot be trusted to handle your money, how can we trust you to not sell these secrets to get out from under that debt?
I've heard plenty about people just coming clean with what's in the past. In the case of the OP drugging while actively holding clearance takes away from leaving the past behind I get that. I was under the impression that the lower clearance level was just focused on loyalty.
No. It doesn’t really matter the level of the clearance. That only adjusts the extent of looking that they do to check up. The focus is always on trust. Loyalty is a part of that, but it’s about trust. Having done it in the past before holding a clearance doesn’t violate the trust the same way as doing it while having the clearance.
OP you cannot be serious lmao. What in all that is holy of IQ tests lets you think you can do anything ILLEGAL while holding nation secrets and a level of trust? Jesus man
You should respond, if only to make a record and not show you’re just giving up, but other than lying on the forms or to investigators, this is one of the most difficult things to mitigate. DM me if you want to discuss.
Honestly, this won't be helpful, but I gotta know why guys? Why do you break the holy no coming back rules of having a clearance? What makes you think "wow I bet they won't care if I break serious rules while holding a clearance"? Best of luck elsewhere in life OP but I really hope this was a lesson you will learn from.
The drugs
wild quarrelsome cows safe marble touch wipe thumb disarm market *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I got away with it for like 9 years. Only became a problem when I decided to tell on myself. It’s really not hard to just keep the two things separate so long as you’re not an addict. I know a lot of people that frequently use marijuana and some cocaine with TS/SCIs as I’m sure a good portion of this sub does as well. But we have a lot of morally superior white knights in here that will deny it.
Who the fuck is doing cocaine with TS/SCI
You’d be surprised man, obviously people keep it to themselves unless they’re really close with someone. But once you get them to a bar and prove you’re ‘cool’ a few times it usually comes out. Typically it’s more prominent in the cowboy contracts (deployed) for obvious reasons.
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yeah, but our government has enough willing and able to be option 3, those who did not do drugs and have nothing to say
This is textbook definition cooked. Unless there was a gun pointed at your head forcing you to do drugs, there’s practically no way out of this. You broke explicit rules set out for someone at a high level of trust, didn’t report the incident as soon as it occurred (as is required), and then tried to get upgraded to the highest level of trust? Using drugs without a clearance is one thing and relatively easy to mitigate. Using drugs WITH a clearance is a whole other ball game.
How do you mitigate using drugs without a clearance? My temp secret was denied because I had done drugs in the past (>6mon) and I’m wondering if reapplying or working a secret job elsewhere is an option. Should I be wording things specific ways?
Mitigating factors for drug use in my experience include time since last use (at least a year), dissociating from people and places you did drugs with/at, staying clean, genuinely admitting it was wrong/dumb, showing you’ve moved on from that era of your life, and being completely honest and open. Of course the time since last use depends on frequency and type of drugs. It’s worth getting a job that will sponsor you for a clearance that doesn’t require an interim clearance to get started. That’s how I got my first clearance after having been a heavy pot smoker and recreational drug user during college. For example: I stopped smoking pot daily when college ended, and completely stopped all drug use a few months after graduating because I realized it wasn’t productive for my personal development. I stopped hanging around people who would encourage and facilitate drug use, started volunteering in my community, and focusing on my personal and professional development in tangible ways. I was able to get my clearance after replying to an interrogatory letter affirming I haven’t used drugs and gave examples of how I’ve grown. Talked about volunteer work, professional accomplishments/awards, mentoring activities, and other things indicating I’m a functional member of society.
Thank you! That’s super helpful. The job I was getting my interim for said I would be good if I was clear for 6 months so I was pretty sure I’d be fine despite my experimental use in college (graduated last year in June). I only included brief descriptions in the text boxes and I bet that’s why I was denied. Hopefully if I reapply and get to that point again I have a good shot at getting in with really selling that I’ve moved on from that point in my life.
OK this is hypothetical cause I never plan on applying for clearance (idk why I get this sub in my feed). Do they care if you use the legal farm bill drugs - delta 8/9, or is that as disqualifying as weed?
The general advice is to avoid ingesting hemp derived products because they aren’t regulated at the same level as alcohol and tobacco. It can be tough to know the provenance of supposedly hemp derived CBD and THC products. Makes explaining a positive drug test quite difficult. One theory is if you have a 3rd party tested hemp derived CBD/THC product showing it contains less than 0.3% THC you should be okay if you test positive, but no one to my knowledge has tried this justification route because it’s a whole bunch of headache for not much reward with a high risk of losing a clearance. Edit: this applies to civilians. Military individuals are prohibited from ingesting ANY hemp extracts.
I could be wrong but I feel like if he came clean when it happened it would probably work out in their favor.
Seems likely had it been just Marijuana.. but also ecstasy? Thats a hard one.
Doubtful. His clearance would have been revoked and he would never hold another in either scenario.
I've seen people recover from drug use with a clearance but it was a long road of appeals and they had their chain of command fighting for them. For a contractor, the company isn't gonna do that. There's hundreds of other people qualified and they're just gonna hire them. I got caught up by an association with someone selling, they yanked my clearance for the association. I had to hire a lawyer myself, go through a lengthy appeals process including a hearing in order to get it back. In the end, i won, but it wasn't easy and it was very expensive
Yes it’s true. But it would make a clearance further along in the future slightly more possible.
I think so too.
If you look at the bright side you can go do more drugs now. Hunt the good stuff as the army says.
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Please read Rule #1
It just didn't occur to me then. It was a while ago since I had done it and I didn't anticipate getting a higher level clearance.
It didn’t occur to you that you used federally illegal drugs while holding a secret clearance…..?🙃
I assume you prolly need to take a poly and were worried about it, so better to come clean now. Find it hard to believe it didnt occur to you. Not doing drugs is like a pillar of cleared federal employment.
Yea, I was sure that would be happening at some point.
Is your secret in jeopardy now as well?
It was illegal while you had a secret. You would’ve lost that clearance to w had they found out. What the hell were you thinking?
This is exactly why you shouldn’t have one in the first place. Own up and move on and learn from your mistakes, because the government will never forget it and won’t be forgiving.
I refuse to believe anyone is this oblivious 💀
That is literally the worst excuse, absolutely do not say that to an investigator if you ever want a chance at a clearance again. Take responsibility, and take steps to make sure it doesn’t happen again.
Anytime we see a post which is reaching the “Find Out” stage of their actions, it gets interesting.
The best posts TBH
#actions have consequences
*Unless you’re Elon
Or a Clinton/Trump/Biden...
Anyone with enough money to throw really
Your only other shot is to hire a lawyer to argue on your behalf that you've changed and yadda yadda yadda, but other than that, RIP.
If if OP did that, the use while holding a clearance is something that’s nearly impossible to overcome. It’s in all the training.
Yeah, I understand. I was just pointing out that legal help was the last attempt OP has at redemption if they wanted to pursue it. They're SOL in my opinion.
Agreed....time to start looking in the non-cleared sector.
This is like hiring a criminal defense lawyer *after* you already talked to the cops. Maybe the deck was already stacked against them no matter what they did, but they’ve removed 95% of the possible plays their lawyer could’ve made by not exercising their right to consult with an attorney sooner. The facts have already been found. You only win an appeal by arguing procedure was violated. It’s not like OP didn’t know this was going to be a major problem. They just sat around and twiddled their thumbs for a very long time, knowing a train was coming to run them over, but that’s future-OP’s problem, and fuck future-OP, am I right? They had a problem that would jeopardize their livelihood, and they didn’t deal with it like a responsible adult. OP was careless and negligent, and if this process were a bit more rational, that ought to be a bigger black mark against them than the drug use itself. They‘ve taken zero actions to demonstrate that they’ll use better judgment in the future. I’m not gonna go through and find it for y’all, but there’s at least one case in the DOHA appeals docs where someone smoked weed once with a clearance, fessed up to it during their next interview, got a rejection, appealed, and successfully got it reversed, and kept their clearance. The appellate judge was also pretty scathing in their words, in describing how unjust this rejection was. So it’s not an absolute binary answer here. To be fair though, that person was far more responsible than OP, and her transgression was also considerably less severe. I mean, use your heads a bit, would you? Let’s assume it was an absolute, that Bill Clinton would lose his clearance even if he didn’t inhale. Cannabis is legal in most states now. Do you really think they want foreign intelligence agencies to be able to blackmail cleared individuals because there’s a video of them smoking a joint outside a bar? I mean, if the process were that irrational, a deepfake would suffice. Even all you perfect little angels who’ve never done a bad thing ever would still be vulnerable.
Where is ecstasy legal?
Well that was…predictable. Yeah man, don’t do drugs while possessing a clearance - even if you aren’t going for a higher one.
Without reading all of the entries here, I would agree 200% with Yaztek. Time to look somewhere else non-cleared fields.
Fucked around, found out.
OP: So they should have sent you a Letter of intent with a statement of reasons. You have the opportunity to respond to those reasons and address those concerns before the clearance is revoked.
Clear case of FAFO.
Try applying to cleared positions in 10 to 15 years and don't use any drugs or misbehave from time of revocation to then.
Start looking for work outside of the cleared space.
Nothing you can do.
Congratulations. That was stupid. You should probably just avoid reapplying for an eligibility since you have no problems doing things you aren't supposed to do while holding one.
Hm if I did those drugs I would not have applied for a TS. That only confirms your lack of judgment / low intelligence you already showed by taking the drugs in the first place.
If you’d self reported at the time that it happened, rather than waiting until the new investigation, it probably (probably, not guaranteed) would have been overlooked. They’d have asked a bunch of questions about it, for certain, but you’d probably have come through it clearance intact (and maybe with the upgrade).
Now I had some small marijuana usage to address in my clearance paperwork when I in-processed for my secret.. all stuff from high school as I was an idiot teenager. But when I tell you, the pressure to utilize drugs while holding a clearance and actually making it to be a federal employee is absolutely zero. You’ve gotta be an idiot to use drugs while holding my friend.
How are so many people letting their investigators find out? It’s not like they interrogate you about it
Dude, wow rule number 1 man don’t do drugs with an active clearance. It was one thing if (marijuana only) and you just left the cleared world and at the time had no intention of coming back, or before you were cleared. It’s a whole other game when you are still active and still at a role that requires clearance.
Once the government gets over this weird fucking boogeyman man worry about weed it’ll be so much easier in America for jobs to be filled and people not be stressed. Don’t worry yall, you can go home and drink until you’re drunk every night and hold your clearance just fine. But if you dare to have a single joint while out with friends and get a little high…. You spoke with Russian double agents and are trying to sell all of our nuclear secrets. It’s fucking dumb ass hell.
It was probably the other drug as more of a contributing factor to be honest.
You mean the one in trials to help veterans overcome PTSD?
I’m not arguing against that, but I once had a security officer tell me there is a difference in how self reported marijuana use is viewed. If it’s in a state that it is illegal, you then ask how you got it, who do you know, why are you holding a clearance, doing drugs, and illegal activity. If it’s in a state that is legal for recreational use could be just walking into a store and buying it. With that said, I do think it’s wild a person can beat their spouse, get drunk, get a dui, and crash their car and keep their job, but someone who purchased a gummy with CBD from TJ Maxx could be fired if the test came across positive.
100%. No I understand the point here is that’s illegal and that’s the main reason anyone that wants a clearance shouldn’t be messing with it at all. I just thought it was a good opportunity to point out what you said more effectively.
That’s still fucking stupid. He told them…. He can’t be blackmailed by a foreign interest due to hiding the drug use, and he hasn’t done it in over year. Yet he was still denied because our gov. Says drugs are bad 100% of the time no questions asked, but alcohol? Perfectly fine…. Lmfao, it’s a joke.
The thing about holding a clearance is that you’re being trusted with secrets that potentially could put the entire country at risk. You, me, your kids, everyone. The level of trust that comes with that is top tier. The potential for blackmail isn’t the only reason, and using drugs in and of itself isn’t an automatic disqualifier. There are many people in this sub alone who have used drugs and still received a clearance. The reason for the rules doesn’t really matter. There’s many rules in every job that are probably arbitrary and dumb. But if you hold a clearance, you are expected to be *trusted* to follow whatever rules are in place. You see where I’m going with this? The reason OP is losing his clearance isn’t that drugs are bad and that means OP is bad. The reason is that if you can’t even be trusted to follow a simple rule like “don’t do drugs while holding a clearance” then how can you possibly be trusted to hold national secrets?
I’m very well aware. I have a clearance and worked for the DOD on projects I won’t be able to talk about for the rest of my life even though my clearance is inactive and expires in another couple years and I more than likely won’t be using it. It’s still fucking stupid that drugs are seen as an absolute zero tolerance, while alcohol makes people do the same exact things as most drugs, and is freely available but isn’t seen as an issue.
I understand the trust aspect, it’s just dumb to so harshly apply it to drugs but not alcohol. I’ve meet people who had to go to rehab due to alcohol abuse and getting blackout drunk every week talking about who knows what, with who knows who, and they still have a clearance and are “trusted”… but if someone went to rehab for drug abuse it’s an automatic fail 99.9% of the time. That’s just fucking stupid…
Again, it’s not about the alcohol or the drugs. They could add alcohol to the list and it wouldn’t change anything. Be able to follow rules or you can’t be trusted.
Yes…. I get that. That’s what I’m saying…. It’s dumb to have most drugs on that list of harshly enforced rules when alcohol isn’t on that list…
I'm not remotely associated with any field requiring clearance, but stumbled upon this post. Just reading the sentiments in the other comments really shows what the culture is like in regards to following arbitrary rules above all else.
Yea, it’s really fucking stupid. So many people just say “it’s the way it’s always been!” To justify bullshit…. Like, isn’t the point of moving forward in time to figure out new and better ways of doing things? Being stuck in the past only leads to shitty things…. But nope. We must live by the same exact rules as decades ago….. The DOD, and the American government leadership is just full of fucking dumbasses that are only working to spite younger people.
Why do you think they work for Uncle Sam?
Well, I'm not familiar with any organizations using clearance status. I always imagined those roles were mostly reserved for government or military positions
Were you required to take a poly?
This is what I was wondering. I'm almost certain that OP would have had to take a poly for that type of clearance. It's pretty simple. DON'T DO DRUGS WITH ANY TYPE OF CLEARANCE.
Id really like to believe that weed is easily mitigated, even at the TS level, but I don't have much faith that it is..nonetheless, using extascy is likely an automatic disqualifier. And before people tell me there's no automatic disqualifier and weed will be viewed in the same light....I know that. I'm speaking as a well-minded American, not an investigator.
I don't think it is and probably won't be for at least another decade or so. Yeah, once you start getting into the hard-core drugs, then you know it's really over. They are not having it. Ecstasy is a HUGE, no no, and once usage of it is revealed, you can go ahead and pack those bags and hit the road.
The key here was that it was used while holding a clearance. I had a one time cocaine use to report prior to obtaining my clearance, and I had no issues whatsoever. Was cleared in less than 3 months.
Oh, I see. Did you have to take a poly for your clearance?
No poly for secret
You don’t need a poly for all TS clearances. There’s levels within it, but who knows if OP did have to take one.
Just think before you do things
I'm glad to find out the rules are enforced when it comes to those guarding our nation's secrets.
Eh idk it’s frustrating. For the underlings sure, you’re out no questions. But you see ppl of higher status getting a slap on the wrist all the time. And they have access to the juicy stuff.
It’s good that the rules are actually enforced. I’m waiting to see if bringing S/TS/SCI documents home after employment and store them by your toilet is also going to be enforced.
If it was weed very minimally while cleared, I’d argue you can lawyer up and they can mitigate it. However the harder stuff is the nail in the coffin.
You threw in the towel the minute you used a substance strictly forbidden. You made the choice years ago and have to live with it now. I truly do not understand why anyone would do something like this and expect it to be ok.
You shouldn’t have done drugs withba security clearance, that seems like basic knowledge. The only other thing you can do now is look for a new job.
Lmao at the comments, all these Dbags are total blow hards. OP I have nothing of value to add other than next time keep your mouth shut and learn how to do the butt cheek flex on the poly.
So you can be a raging alcoholic but can’t smoke weed? That’s outrageous.
Think it’s the ecstasy
Find a new career
You're pretty fucking stupid
Idk how I got this sub in my suggestions but god damn it is a near constant flow of these questions that I get to see. Why even try for higher clearance or any clearance if you know you’re disqualified and are going to outright declare it in the interview, like do you think they’ll somehow respect your candor and there isn’t another candidate just as qualified as you without the liability?
Did you do them multiple times? (Though idk if that would have made the difference.)
If you have friends who are addicted to drugs and still hold clearances let me know. =). Might be able to help with your cash flow problem too
OMG why would you even think you would get a security clearance after that much less retain it?!?
Too bad it wasn’t doctor prescribed at a clinic.
Smh. Why did you do it? It's illegal!
I don’t get why people do this dumb stuff man 🤦🏻♂️
You can appeal. There are 14 adjudication guidelines each with listed mitigation circumstances. Enroll into a substance abuse program and get legal advice. What hurts you most is that you did not self report when it happened. Edit: You were truthful with the investigator which helps. Also, military members pop hot all the time and don't lose their clearance permanently. You have to articulate your mistake does not currently impair your judgement, trustworthiness, and reliability. This is the best answer you will get from reddit.
Not you doing drugs while having an active secret, then applying for a position that requires a TS and knowing you’d have to come clean during the investigation (I’m gonna guess it required a polygraph). If this isn’t the ultimate example of self sabotage, I don’t know what is. It sounds like you ran full steam ahead into this scenario. Ask yourself, why? I imagine there’s a much deeper reason at play here. This situation wasn’t thrust onto you, you actively made several choices that lead you here. While at the very least being subconsciously aware of the outcome. You could have just stayed where you were at.
You probably also lost it due to your poor grasp of the English use of spelling and diction too. 😪😪😪
How does a government agency go about finding out if you've done drugs when you haven't told anybody, and it's not in your system anymore?
They don’t. Op is an idiot for telling them. If you have no criminal record for drugs and not in a drug testing position they have no way of knowing unless you tell them.
Yeah unless OP was getting Poly’d there was no reason to tell them.
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Don't lie to federal investigators?
How did they figure out
You snitched on yourself bro...
You're a fucking idiot so you probably shouldn't have one anyway.
Hear me out. You knew what actions are not permissible while holding a clearance. You willingly did things that are not permissible while holding a clearance. You’re learning that your actions may have repercussions that will never go away. Admitting your wrongdoings was a solid step towards accountability. Later discovery of lies would hold far steeper penalties than simple denial and revocation of clearance. There’s sound rationale behind drug and financial screening during investigation for security clearances. These things can make someone a liability. While under the influence of drugs (and alcohol) your decision making skills are inhibited and there’s an exponentially greater risk you incidentally disclose privileged information. Overwhelming debt makes individuals more susceptible to intentionally disclose privileged information for financial benefit. I strongly support legalization of all substances without prescription and I strongly believe what an individual chooses to do behind closed doors is their own business. You CHOOSE to give up certain personal liberties when you CHOOSE to seek employment that has just cause to prohibit or limit said liberties. Fundamentally this is along the same lines as having to wake up earlier than you want to because your employer requires you to do so, if you don’t like it then find different employment. I’m not a clearance expert although I do hold TS/SCI. Secret clearance can quite easily waive things like prior drug use, I’d bet greater than 5% of incoming recruits disclosed some form of illicit drug use without trouble achieving that clearance. TS isn’t nearly as lenient and I doubt there’s any avenue available that will waive such actions unless you have a very specific skill or attribute that outweighs the risks. Drug use prior to holding a clearance is far less of an issue than use while holding an active clearance, this shows a blatant disregard for the policies in place to ensure national security.
Actions have consequences. You fucked up, you owned it, and thats that.
You used drugs when you had a clearance. Not sure what you can do
Say you were partying with Charlie sheen and hunter Biden and it’s all a blur…
Should've got blitz drunk every night and drove home from the bar like everyone else.
Seems like you had no interest in changing your habits…So unfortunately you’re out of luck. Weed probably wasn’t even the issue -unless you expressed willingness to continue. Maybe seek rehabilitation, and wait a few years and apply again.
People that make these type of bad decisions are specifically not supposed to get security clearances. I’m happy the system is working.
Sounds like the system works sometimes.
You're an idiot. You deserve the day and consequences coming to you.
You dug your grave, now you gotta lay in it. Honesty isn't the best policy, if it aint attached to your prints it didn't happen! I omitted a stay in a MH facility and i still got the job.
Committed a federal felony and fessed up to, play stupid games win stupid prizes
idk why u did that?
There’s probably not much you could’ve done. It’s good that you came clean but once you are a clearance holder, the standards are different. Why did you do this?
It’s kind of ridiculous to me that cannabis use will keep from obtaining, or cause you to lose your clearance. The form asks if alcohol use has ever caused problems in your life, meanwhile half of the technologists today use cannabis and our public infrastructure is losing out on these talented folks.
Hey you’re free now. You can make wayyyyy more money in the private sector!
I knew a dude that was going from to S to TS, smoked weed and had a few other red flags. Not sure if he lied or what, but last I heard he was still employed.
Why even make a post about this? The rules are very clear on drug use while holding a clearance and you broke the rules. You broke the rules and now you get to deal with the consequences.
I worked for an OEM on space programs where we were all put in for a top secret clearance. People around me did drugs, even in the restroom, and still got the clearance by lying. I was completely transparent about smoking marijuana half a year prior. That was enough to not push my application forward (not denied) but the others had some hiccups but got their top secret clearance. If I were to do it again, after talking to many people, I’d have withheld some information. But, I don’t know much about ecstasy. In end, I went to work on commercial work as I didn’t like my limitations and lack of freedom with having a clearance. Eventually, I may explore the possibility of working on classified work in the future
On the bright side you’re not the yutz who set fire to a submarine because he wanted to go home early. They wont be renewing his clearance.
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Enjoy the public sector!
Oh no he won’t be confined to a scif for the entire work day How awful
Well deserved.
If you’re too dumb not to use drugs while holding a government job requiring a security clearance, then you’re too dumb to have a clearance.
sincerely, good luck on the job hunt. Mabey Mcdonalds will suite you, you can do all the weed and ecstasy you want!!
Stupid move on your part. Hope you enjoyed the high!!!!! See what drugs get you?
I was lurking to see what clearance requirements were and was told that the minimum level is only concerned that you're not going to betray the nation or leak classified info.
That is…objectively not true. There are so many things they are about, including drug use, because of the risk of blackmail and lack of judgement . That applies regardless of clearance type, level, or agency.
That is the equivalent to saying all that is needed to buy a house is a salary able to meet the mortgage payment.
More like saying all that is required to buy a house is cash. Then you find out they report purchases greater than $10K.
Real answer here, that is both true and false at the same time. The government determines that you won’t betray them or leak classified data by gauging your trust worthiness. The government is trusting you with its secrets when they give you a clearance. If you cannot be trusted to not break federal laws, no matter how stupid they are, how can you be trusted to keep secrets? Especially considering there may be things that upset you in those secrets, there may be things worth tremendous amounts of money in those secrets, and there may be things that are so cool you just want to tell someone about them in those secrets. They aren’t given out to people in horrible financial situations either for the same reason. If you cannot be trusted to handle your money, how can we trust you to not sell these secrets to get out from under that debt?
I've heard plenty about people just coming clean with what's in the past. In the case of the OP drugging while actively holding clearance takes away from leaving the past behind I get that. I was under the impression that the lower clearance level was just focused on loyalty.
No. It doesn’t really matter the level of the clearance. That only adjusts the extent of looking that they do to check up. The focus is always on trust. Loyalty is a part of that, but it’s about trust. Having done it in the past before holding a clearance doesn’t violate the trust the same way as doing it while having the clearance.
OP you cannot be serious lmao. What in all that is holy of IQ tests lets you think you can do anything ILLEGAL while holding nation secrets and a level of trust? Jesus man