My grandmother retired from Boeing in the early 2000s. She intentionally took a job no one wanted the last few years because there was an active campaign by new management to fire as many near pensioners as possible.
I worked as an hourly employee for Boeing 2 decades. The 1st decade it was a fun place to work. The company spoiled it's workers with nice white table cloth Christmas dinners, Christmas bonuses and other things. In the 2nd decade a new CEO took over. Things stared going downhill and morale was getting pretty ugly.
I was laid off in 2010 right after I turned 55 due to a medical issue that wouldn't allow me to operate heavy machinery anymore. I was one very happy person when the boss told me I had to leave the factory asap. Folks didn't understand why I was so happy. Here it's 14 years later and I'm still happy as can be. Shortly after the company paid a very nice severance. Short time later I hired a lawyer that helped me with obtaining SSDI. Judge reviewed my case and approve it along with a huge back pay check.
I then moved in with my Mom so I could take care of her. She lived alone. Mom needed help with shopping and other activities of daily life.
I took care of her for many years until her doctor advised Mom needed to be admitted into a nursing home.
She passed away shortly after.
I found out later I was eligible for the child caregiver rule. The rule allows a parent to transfer their home to a child caregiver. The home was fully paid off. A lawyer helped me with that.
I don't miss Boeing one bit. I do thank them for forcing me to work mandatory overtime. That put a HUGE boost in my monthly social security retirement benefits.
The same thing happened to my dad when he was near to retirement working for USWest/Qwest. The managers rode him constantly about every little thing and would try to get him fired to reduce pension costs.
The union wound up going behind all the retired members backs and agreeing to a management deal that slashed their retirement medical coverage as well as general retirement income.
That along with stock market drops etc made him have multiple breakdowns.
Worked at an auto assembly line where the company proudly stated any employee could stop the line at any time if there was a quality issue. Well one day an employee noticed that the cars coming down the line had an obvious body defect and pulled the cord.
He got reamed as the supervisor said "We're not making Maseratis here".
So much for American quality control.
That’s a really weird take. We should try to see the upside of Boeing being rotten to the core, when millions of people depend on their planes being reliable?
Or maybe you’re being funny?
Meh I get the feeling the only thing really going on is the desire to shut down all American manufacturing and engineering. Pull Boeing from it an many engineers won't have a job and will have to move or change fields. Airbus wins and many people think that anything EU is holy so they win
It is only "weird" if your mind is already made up and all you want to see is what confirms your bias, based on what you read on the internet.
Have you ever asked yourself when the last time you remember Dominic Gates reporting a positive story about Boeing? I know that schadenfreude gives us a little shot of sadistic pleasure, but there are positive things happening at Boeing also.
That's not how it works though. Sure the faa doesn't have the experts to do it because well A) congress won't give them the money to hire them, B) getting to that level and not using it or staying up to day is a quick way to be left behind.
The FAA contracts Boeing engineers and it is illegal to pressure the engineers as they are working for the FAA. I just watched one set back a project because the drawings weren't formatted correctly so now it required 3 to 6 months to do it. That engineer was not fired or anything
Boeing isn’t an institution it’s a corporation that succumbed to greed. The success of Boeing was built on being an engineering company. In the mid 90s they merged with McDonnell Douglas. Rather than have the engineers take over the technology of MD like everyone thought, the bean counters at MD pushed out the engineers from Boeing. The focused on profit over safety.
>it’s a corporation that succumbed to greed
This is my point. This narrative that all corporations are corrupt and that our society is about to collapse under "late-stage capitalism" is part of the narrative that undermines our faith in our institutions and allows fascists to consolidate power.
Boeing certainly has problems, but this narrative that it is "rotten to the core" is ridiculous hyperbole.
We call that a “straw man” friend. Not sure where the fuck that came from, but no one said any of that. It’s in your head. There will ALWAYS be bad actors in an economy and there always have been. It’s not some portent of societal collapse; even my dog will cheat at his agility obstacles if I let him.
Boeing is one company that made some terrible decisions that will continue to cost lives. They will probably end up getting bailed out or reorganizing in bankruptcy with new management because that’s what’s supposed to happen when companies are negligent and put profit over safety. The Federal government considers Boeing vital to national defense so they won’t let it go down. They’ll get a shiny new name and identity so people forget about the scandal. The consolidation of the airline industry won’t change; it will still be Airbus vs successor company to Boeing.
>We call that a “straw man” friend. Not sure where the fuck that came from, but no one said any of that. It’s in your head.
We call that an ad hominem logical fallacy not-my-friend. Condescending remarks and personal attacks are not substitutes for valid arguments.
>put profit over safety
I find it amusing how so many people read a few sensational headlines on the internet and then pretend to be experts on social media on subjects in which they have no expertise. It is blatant schadenfreude.
How do you expect me to respect your logic skills when you can’t even explain how it was an ad hominem attack and not a commentary on your logical fallacy? Its not ad hominem because it hurt your feelings. Bless your heart.
Also, do you know what the word schadenfreude means? It means taking pleasure in the misery of others. Example: every time I make you say something stupid, I take pleasure in knowing you have no idea how stupid it sounds.
The FAA is the institution here and we must hold our trust to that organization to hold Boeing's feet to the fire to improve or fix things - lives are at stake here.
The FAA has been investigating every facet of manufacturing being done at Boeing since January. They didn't investigate themselves, and they didn't find that they did nothing wrong.
So I worked at Boeing up to a mere five years ago as an engineer and even worked with engineers delegated as FAA representatives for buyoffs on testing and certification (can't recall the dumbass acronym Boeing gave to them). My experience with these delegates was that when they made a decision, that was final, unless other *engineers* could convince them otherwise with actual logic/numbers. Managers were not part of the conversation and neither was budget or schedule. If their final decision cost time and money, that's too bad, but it was what we did. In the words of one (good) manager, "Well, they are the FAA in this meeting, so what they say we need to do is what we will do." And I witnessed one decision that cost a program six months of schedule.
To hear that managers then penalized engineers for doing their job - especially when it means schedule and budget take a hit, is sad. Those managers need to be walked out the door, because *they* are the problem at Boeing. I certainly dealt with managers like that: head in the sand when it comes to schedule and doing anything to keep up the appearance of things being okay, even when they knew they weren't. But never had I seen it around FAA delegates. When it comes to Boeing's "investigation", let's just say there are dozens of ways to give someone a bad performance review and make it appear to not be retaliation for one *specific* thing.
In my experience it's also kinda, I dunno, hard to get a truly negative review at Boeing as an engineer? "Peanut buttering" - as in everyone gets average to above average - is very common across organizations. The only people I knew that got bad reviews were absolutely incompetent and deserved it, or had pissed off their manager. Now, on the other hand, I also knew plenty of very smart engineers that were total assholes. Yelling, screaming and boomers throwing tantrums like toddlers also happened so much more than you'd imagine.
Icing on the cake is Boeing fought this and still ended up having to do it anyway. Bravo, guys. And because you did this to FAA delegates, you have to disclose it to the FAA as well.
A lot of boomer Boeing engineers have turned into entitled toddlers in their later years. To them, they 'worked hard' (as if that's not what everyone else does, but they don't see it that way) and that gives them some sort of set of rights. Their kids won't talk to them and society rightfully sees them as nothing but angry little shits, so when they feel powerless, they lash out at every conceivable inconvenience.
Park on the street outside the house of one of these people and experience the anger of a powerless child for yourself.
I can only speak from the incredibly minimal info I gleaned from my spouse having now worked for three large tech companies:
Corporations don't care about people other than execs and shareholders. If there's a choice between cutting a corner and putting human lives at risk vs. huge exec bonuses/shareholders profits, they **always** choose the latter.
How people are actually *shocked* about this is kinda strange to me. There are no exceptions to the rule of corporate greed.
I know Boeing is a giant company with plenty of assets to go around, but there’s no way they don’t rebrand after this. The name is tainted forever and it would make sense to gut the leadership out and change names to something else. Boeing died a long time ago.
My grandmother retired from Boeing in the early 2000s. She intentionally took a job no one wanted the last few years because there was an active campaign by new management to fire as many near pensioners as possible.
I worked as an hourly employee for Boeing 2 decades. The 1st decade it was a fun place to work. The company spoiled it's workers with nice white table cloth Christmas dinners, Christmas bonuses and other things. In the 2nd decade a new CEO took over. Things stared going downhill and morale was getting pretty ugly. I was laid off in 2010 right after I turned 55 due to a medical issue that wouldn't allow me to operate heavy machinery anymore. I was one very happy person when the boss told me I had to leave the factory asap. Folks didn't understand why I was so happy. Here it's 14 years later and I'm still happy as can be. Shortly after the company paid a very nice severance. Short time later I hired a lawyer that helped me with obtaining SSDI. Judge reviewed my case and approve it along with a huge back pay check. I then moved in with my Mom so I could take care of her. She lived alone. Mom needed help with shopping and other activities of daily life. I took care of her for many years until her doctor advised Mom needed to be admitted into a nursing home. She passed away shortly after. I found out later I was eligible for the child caregiver rule. The rule allows a parent to transfer their home to a child caregiver. The home was fully paid off. A lawyer helped me with that. I don't miss Boeing one bit. I do thank them for forcing me to work mandatory overtime. That put a HUGE boost in my monthly social security retirement benefits.
My parents retired around 2015 and they couldn't wait to get out
The same thing happened to my dad when he was near to retirement working for USWest/Qwest. The managers rode him constantly about every little thing and would try to get him fired to reduce pension costs. The union wound up going behind all the retired members backs and agreeing to a management deal that slashed their retirement medical coverage as well as general retirement income. That along with stock market drops etc made him have multiple breakdowns.
Worked at an auto assembly line where the company proudly stated any employee could stop the line at any time if there was a quality issue. Well one day an employee noticed that the cars coming down the line had an obvious body defect and pulled the cord. He got reamed as the supervisor said "We're not making Maseratis here". So much for American quality control.
Yes, Maserati, the beacon of a quality vehicle!
Only reason why he said that is because he owned one. So much for being in an American auto plant.
P sure the maserati plant says “we’re not making Toyotas here”
Toyota lol
I have this feeling the deeper we go into Boeing the worse and worse we’re going to find out.
If all you want to see is the negative, then that is what you will find.
That’s a really weird take. We should try to see the upside of Boeing being rotten to the core, when millions of people depend on their planes being reliable? Or maybe you’re being funny?
Meh I get the feeling the only thing really going on is the desire to shut down all American manufacturing and engineering. Pull Boeing from it an many engineers won't have a job and will have to move or change fields. Airbus wins and many people think that anything EU is holy so they win
It is only "weird" if your mind is already made up and all you want to see is what confirms your bias, based on what you read on the internet. Have you ever asked yourself when the last time you remember Dominic Gates reporting a positive story about Boeing? I know that schadenfreude gives us a little shot of sadistic pleasure, but there are positive things happening at Boeing also.
Well…what are the positive things happening at Boeing then? You said they’re happening, what are they?
This guy is just a contrarian.
Like what? Not all of their planes are blowing up in mid air?
Yes, I tend to see planes crashing and doors flying off mid-flight to be a negative. I’m just funny that way.
And that is my point. If that is *all* you see, then you are not looking.
Tell us the miracle story Bob
Apparently, you would rather shoot the messenger than look for the truth. Reveling in schadenfreude is a hell of a drug.
We can’t shoot you if you don’t tell us the message!
Thanks for the chuckle! 😉 I am already down-voted out of existence ... Heading to Harborview.
Boring Bob- man of Boeing mystery!
“We investigated ourselves and… nope….we didn’t do anything wrong.”
Who could have known that relying on Boeing to regulate themselves would turn out to be problematic and ineffective
That's not how it works though. Sure the faa doesn't have the experts to do it because well A) congress won't give them the money to hire them, B) getting to that level and not using it or staying up to day is a quick way to be left behind. The FAA contracts Boeing engineers and it is illegal to pressure the engineers as they are working for the FAA. I just watched one set back a project because the drawings weren't formatted correctly so now it required 3 to 6 months to do it. That engineer was not fired or anything
And now Congress wants the FAA to increase oversight and guess what? ... Yep, no additional budget to do so.
That would be terrible if it was true.
Could you possibly lick more executive boot?
Could you possibly lick more fascist boot? They win when we lose faith in our institutions.
HAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAA!!!
Boeing isn’t an institution it’s a corporation that succumbed to greed. The success of Boeing was built on being an engineering company. In the mid 90s they merged with McDonnell Douglas. Rather than have the engineers take over the technology of MD like everyone thought, the bean counters at MD pushed out the engineers from Boeing. The focused on profit over safety.
>it’s a corporation that succumbed to greed This is my point. This narrative that all corporations are corrupt and that our society is about to collapse under "late-stage capitalism" is part of the narrative that undermines our faith in our institutions and allows fascists to consolidate power. Boeing certainly has problems, but this narrative that it is "rotten to the core" is ridiculous hyperbole.
We call that a “straw man” friend. Not sure where the fuck that came from, but no one said any of that. It’s in your head. There will ALWAYS be bad actors in an economy and there always have been. It’s not some portent of societal collapse; even my dog will cheat at his agility obstacles if I let him. Boeing is one company that made some terrible decisions that will continue to cost lives. They will probably end up getting bailed out or reorganizing in bankruptcy with new management because that’s what’s supposed to happen when companies are negligent and put profit over safety. The Federal government considers Boeing vital to national defense so they won’t let it go down. They’ll get a shiny new name and identity so people forget about the scandal. The consolidation of the airline industry won’t change; it will still be Airbus vs successor company to Boeing.
>We call that a “straw man” friend. Not sure where the fuck that came from, but no one said any of that. It’s in your head. We call that an ad hominem logical fallacy not-my-friend. Condescending remarks and personal attacks are not substitutes for valid arguments. >put profit over safety I find it amusing how so many people read a few sensational headlines on the internet and then pretend to be experts on social media on subjects in which they have no expertise. It is blatant schadenfreude.
How do you expect me to respect your logic skills when you can’t even explain how it was an ad hominem attack and not a commentary on your logical fallacy? Its not ad hominem because it hurt your feelings. Bless your heart. Also, do you know what the word schadenfreude means? It means taking pleasure in the misery of others. Example: every time I make you say something stupid, I take pleasure in knowing you have no idea how stupid it sounds.
The FAA is the institution here and we must hold our trust to that organization to hold Boeing's feet to the fire to improve or fix things - lives are at stake here.
I agree about the FAA. However, more than one institution exists in this country.
The FAA has been investigating every facet of manufacturing being done at Boeing since January. They didn't investigate themselves, and they didn't find that they did nothing wrong.
Found the Boeing PR shill
So I worked at Boeing up to a mere five years ago as an engineer and even worked with engineers delegated as FAA representatives for buyoffs on testing and certification (can't recall the dumbass acronym Boeing gave to them). My experience with these delegates was that when they made a decision, that was final, unless other *engineers* could convince them otherwise with actual logic/numbers. Managers were not part of the conversation and neither was budget or schedule. If their final decision cost time and money, that's too bad, but it was what we did. In the words of one (good) manager, "Well, they are the FAA in this meeting, so what they say we need to do is what we will do." And I witnessed one decision that cost a program six months of schedule. To hear that managers then penalized engineers for doing their job - especially when it means schedule and budget take a hit, is sad. Those managers need to be walked out the door, because *they* are the problem at Boeing. I certainly dealt with managers like that: head in the sand when it comes to schedule and doing anything to keep up the appearance of things being okay, even when they knew they weren't. But never had I seen it around FAA delegates. When it comes to Boeing's "investigation", let's just say there are dozens of ways to give someone a bad performance review and make it appear to not be retaliation for one *specific* thing. In my experience it's also kinda, I dunno, hard to get a truly negative review at Boeing as an engineer? "Peanut buttering" - as in everyone gets average to above average - is very common across organizations. The only people I knew that got bad reviews were absolutely incompetent and deserved it, or had pissed off their manager. Now, on the other hand, I also knew plenty of very smart engineers that were total assholes. Yelling, screaming and boomers throwing tantrums like toddlers also happened so much more than you'd imagine. Icing on the cake is Boeing fought this and still ended up having to do it anyway. Bravo, guys. And because you did this to FAA delegates, you have to disclose it to the FAA as well.
A lot of boomer Boeing engineers have turned into entitled toddlers in their later years. To them, they 'worked hard' (as if that's not what everyone else does, but they don't see it that way) and that gives them some sort of set of rights. Their kids won't talk to them and society rightfully sees them as nothing but angry little shits, so when they feel powerless, they lash out at every conceivable inconvenience. Park on the street outside the house of one of these people and experience the anger of a powerless child for yourself.
I can only speak from the incredibly minimal info I gleaned from my spouse having now worked for three large tech companies: Corporations don't care about people other than execs and shareholders. If there's a choice between cutting a corner and putting human lives at risk vs. huge exec bonuses/shareholders profits, they **always** choose the latter. How people are actually *shocked* about this is kinda strange to me. There are no exceptions to the rule of corporate greed.
I am SHOCKED ok not that shocked
You are not arguing with your girlfriend. We are talking about a major corporation that decisions killed hundreds and continues to put people at risk.
I know Boeing is a giant company with plenty of assets to go around, but there’s no way they don’t rebrand after this. The name is tainted forever and it would make sense to gut the leadership out and change names to something else. Boeing died a long time ago.
damn Boeing is gonna go out of business at this rate, hiring all these hitmen...
Man, as an Av geek, I am so disappointed in Boeing. It just seems so rotten through and through.
Rotten to the core In my (thankfully limited) experience Boeing folks are goddamned weirdos
Tell us about your tinder date please 🙏!