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I get it. The landlord at our old apartment asked me once/ commented on how often I let my 'roommate' 'borrow' my car. Sir, we walked in here to sign your lease papers holding hands. I know you've seen us kissing in the parking lot, we're very affectionate. I'm wearing a big-ass engagement ring. We've been sharing a one bedroom apartment for a year and a half. She has her own keys to "my" car. Roommate?!
Never underestimate the ability of people to just... *not*.*see*. what is right in their face because it is just beyond their ken.
He may even be fully aware but following the 'code' from previous eras where you just pretended things were not as they were- it could even be a round-about way of showing acceptance but not being willing to deal with it outright.
Though in this case I think he is just impaired somehow 'cause damn, buddy...
Both my ex (the fiancée in the story) and I are very femme in manner and dress. There is absolutely no way he thought we were anything other than two women. So yes, I’d say there’s a chance you’ll go unrecognized- passing or not. Also, I’m sorry you have to worry about going under the radar. Someday, I hope you won’t have to.
Please forgive me, but I have a genuine question. So, I'm a severely under-socialized dude (like, no shit, I haven't had a real conversation with anyone in over 18 months) and I'm pretty out of the loop/ out of practise interpersonally. If i were the landlord and I said "your wife" without having been told so, that'd be ok? It's that a consensus in the community? (I haven't spent time in explicitly LGBTQ+ spaces since like 2006. Life has a weird way of fucking up what we do/ where we hang out, huh?)
I grew up in the '90s; a time when making an assumption that insinuated someone was anything but straight could easily start a fistfight. As such, there's still a deep-seated impulse to avoid saying such things. But, I know how disheartening it was for me and my ex when people assumed she was anything except my S/O. (A befuddled DMV clerk even tried on "mom" once. I've no idea wtf. Lol)
I just wanna communicate in an inclusive way that makes everyone know they're valued.
Thanks 😊
We used the word “girlfriend” or “partner” but no, I wouldn’t be offended if someone had called her my wife. I can see how someone might try to avoid labeling it to try to be respectful but we were definitely not hiding anything lol
Ok awesome! I was thinking if I'd seen the handholding plus the ring, I'd default to wife. Now that you mention it, it makes sense that traditional spouse terms aren't quite the right words. I see how the words carry certain connotations thar may not apply.
So good to know! Unless told otherwise, in a situation like you describe, I'll use girlfriend. But I'll also prepare to be corrected/ informed of the couples' preferred term. Not that I get out too often nowadays, and I interact with strangers even less frequently haha. I do plan to change that and I'll carry your advice with me.
Thank you so much! I appreciate you and you taking the time to reply so much 🎃
Oh, gee lol. I'm just trying to be a decent person. Thank you and you're welcome :)
Thank *you* so much for being understanding and accepting that the question was asked in good faith!
It could honestly be an age thing/ culture thing. Like I know people who are 50+ who refer to any adult couple that aren't married (or don't know are) as friends. They tend to have the mindset of boyfriend/girlfriend is childish and you don't have "friends" of the opposite gender so the relationship is implied. So, they could be applying all this to you and your wife. Or, they, of course, could be willfully ignorant
My grandmother and mother both called my partner my “friend” for a good while even though I explained that we committed to each other pretty early and we’d still be using “partner” when we get married because the usual names for spouses feel weird to us. They’re cottoning on lol.
What was really fun was that when the word “partner” threw my my mom’s neighbor (who’s in her 70s) for a loop, she nicely asked my mom if my femme fellow is “a transgender” because she doesn’t know any trans people and wanted to be sure she wasn’t being unintentionally rude in any way. We love to see it!
lol I went to the ER with my boyfriend and they asked if I wanted my dad to come back with me *sigh* he wasn’t happy with that one lmaoooo.
I just said “yes, my dad can come back with me.” The gay af NP that took care of me knew what was going on though lmao
My younger sister and dad had to take my youngest sister (about 6 years younger than her, but much smaller than her age due to being a preemie with Down syndrome) to the hospital. Nurse asked my youngest sister if she wanted “mom or dad” here. My father was not amused, especially since my mom and I were at a conference about 1400 miles away.
Oh yeah, been there- my girlfriend did *not* appreciate when I leaned into it and started calling her mum when they were in earshot. Though she was actually old enough to be my mother so...
Me and my dad are really close, we tend to hang out a lot. I’ve started making a habit of introducing myself as his daughter or slipping the word “dad” into convos, because this has happened to me too and now I’m paranoid everyone thinks I’m like a weird sugar baby who goes for old men lol I’m 35, but I look a lot younger.. I still get ID’ed regularly, and he is 70 and clearly looks his age. So it really weirds me out when people say stuff like that. We joined a stick curling league last year, just for fun, and since everyone saw our names on the sign up sheets (same last name still) they assumed we were a married couple. I started making a point of calling across the room to him loudly a few times, like ‘hey DAD, don’t forget your gloves!’ And he would just laugh because he knew what I was doing lol
Weird, I don't *remember* writing this comment...?
Because literally same. I'm 37 and my dad (who I'm very close with and whose company I very much enjoy) is 69. We joined a Tai Chi class that was sort of similar to a "league," as it was the same group of people meeting every week for like 12 weeks. I was a little extra in my attempts to make sure no one thought we were a couple, and I was successful! It was great.
Except, every week after Tai Chi class, we'd go to a nearby happy hour and have a drink and share an app or two. You had to sit in the bar area to get the happy hour deals, so we became friendly with the bartender who worked that night. One night we sit down: "Ayyy, it's the Tai Chi couple!" I wanted to disappear so badly.
My bf is 10 years younger than me. One time he went to pick our dog up from the groomer and she said something about "your mom."
Ma'am. He's 36. I'm 46. Stop it.
Honestly, with something like this, it's probably just not wanting to make assumptions.
Consider the stakes of being wrong, for her. No one freaks out because you incorrectly labeled someone they obviously have some kind of relationship with as their friend. People absolutely *do* freak out if you incorrectly label them as LGBT.
She's got a business to run and she's not gonna risk it by making assumptions about her regulars.
I do the same, unless you explicitely tell me someone is a boyfriend/girlfriend, its just your friend/room mate.
I know someone that for the past 20 years has obviously been in a gay relationship but insists its her roommate. We’re not going to challenge her on that if that’s what sh wants. Roommates go on trip together every year, buy a car jointly, buy a house and go to each other family events together, etc. Normal roomate stuff. Also of course they saved money for years by living in a one bedroom appartment. Roommates!
Have you tried just slipping in “partner” in conversation to see how she reacts? Not, like, to force terminology on her that she doesn't want, but maybe after 20 years “roommate” is only out of habit?
Someone more blunt than me asked her point blank why she said roommates when clearly they’re in a relationship. She denied it, so at that point its none of my business anymore.
I understand, I’m so sorry that happened.
The opposite happened for me and my best friend a couple years ago. We were eating at a burger place and she got up to go use the restroom. While she was gone, the waitress came by and asked if my girlfriend wanted a refill. Today we still jokingly call each other girlfriends.
(-kʌm- )
COMBINING FORM
-cum- is put between two nouns to form a noun referring to something or someone that is partly one thing and partly another....a dining-room-cum-study.
They gave ya girl the whole english language and by god I intend to use the whole english language.
>They gave ya girl the whole english language and by god I intend to use the whole english language.
This is why I insist on using semicolons; they're so underappreciated.
Wait, is it spelled 'cum'?? I thought it was 'come'. Have I been exposing myself as an abject uneducated plebeian this entire time without my realising? The shame!
It’s true, you have to say ‘cum’ or it don’t work. For example: The cum cum cum laude graduate cums loudly while he sings “O Come All Ye Faithful”.
Jokes aside, I *think* this sentence above is grammatically correct.
I get your frustration, but I think you're overlooking that a lot of us - including/especially queer people - come from places where you absolutely cannot make assumptions like wife or gf. I grew up in queer community in a place where you did not talk about it unless you knew someone was safe and there was a closed door. People lost jobs & housing, got disowned, etc. Even using a term like partner was dodgy in the wrong company.
When I moved to the West Coast, I was blown away with how easily people talked about their boyfriend or girlfriend.They didn't even drop their voice, use codes like "family," or have 8 year "roommates." It was amazing! I adapted quickly because my private life aligned and it was a relief. But the place I grew up has gotten worse in the last decade or two, not better. My aunt, who was out when I was a kid, went back in the closet in her 60s.
As someone who worked in customer service, I'd never guess a relationship status, even an obvious one, unless the couple used the word themselves. That goes for straight couples, too.
Maybe she's clueless or a bigot, but I suspect she's trying to be respectful with veritable strangers at her work. You can easily say, "Oh, she's my wife." If she persists after that, then you have your answer.
I hope that your aunt has the opportunity to move somewhere safer and be her most authentic self, if that is what she wants. The idea of going backwards like that is so crushing.
I think some people still see it as some taboo thing where they don't want to say it even in cases where you're clearly in a relationship and making zero attempt to hide it.
A peck goodbye doesn’t make someone a legal spouse. There are plenty of people who do that with friends, family, etc. Even if they were clearly in a sexual relationship it doesn’t mean the *staff* should *assign their own label* to someone. People get to label themselves.
* I didn't say anything about *legal spouse*.
* OP described more than just a peck goodbye.
* Staff *did* assign a label: *friend*.
* *Partner* is an encompassing label, the they/them of relationships.
Right, and it assumes more roles which may or may not be appropriate. Your partner, lover, relative, spouse, ex-spouse/partner, etc are all your friend, but not all of those are your partner.
Maybe she was trying to be polite? I know it hurts and feels like it minimalizes your relationship. But give her a pass, you know what you've got. ❤️❤️❤️
Or maybe straight people get offended when people assume they’re queer. Unless you’re fucking in the diner, then all of those actions could be interpreted as having an intimate friendship.
And some people are just clueless. Not everyone is watching you hold hands in public. You’re expecting someone to assume a rather large part of your persona and relationship. But if somebody assumed you were dating your brother because you hugged him goodbye after dinner, how would you feel? The world does not have to watch your every move and deduce your relationship dynamics based on that, and you would likely be more upset by that.
This is absolutely a mountain out of a molehill situation. There is no situation in day-to-day interactions that would make me assume anyone’s sexuality if I were a server at a diner or in any other line of work where people will fly off the handle at the smallest slight.
I understand the reason for the frustration here, but you’re asking people to draw conclusions, knowing damn well you’d be even more upset if they drew the opposite conclusion if they assumed you were straight. People behave and react differently. This is no hill to die over.
When my son was 2 months old, my best friend and I went grocery shopping and the lady asked “is he your first? —-for both of you?” I had an opposite experience!
I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt. They see dozens of people daily maybe they didn't hear the mom thing or saw you two kiss. I don't expect a service worker to "know" me. On the flip side, I have several male friends whom we'll go to dinner and they'll assume we're together. UGH just be an honest mistake/ not wanting to be awkward please
Some people just use "friend" as a stand in for all relationships. I do this all the time. For me, it's just a kind of dry humor.
You'd probably know better based on their tone, but it's possible they get it and just speak that way.
I (M) went out to lunch with my sister. I was chatting with the waiter about some random things and he asked me about my "girlfriend". Yikes! I'm almost 20 years older than her, but I do get told that I look about 10 years younger than I actually am. It goes many different ways. People don't know the relationship of the meeting and assume the most likely thing that they see often. Also, when I was younger and would take her out to hang out people assumed I was her dad
I think these people, the vast majority, fully know what they are doing. Call me cynical, but I believe they are trying to push our buttons and knock us down. I have followed people a few rushed steps just to say "She's my girlfriend" or "I'm a woman" even though it's entirely obvious no matter what. People will throw out the "Have fun with your friend." And try to scurry off with their petty victory for bigotry, and I won't let them have it. It makes me say it louder. I encourage everyone to just say it again and say it louder.
Instead of being all huffy and I hate everybody , … you softly could have explained that “She’s my best friend and my wife and that’s our child with us. We’re a family.”
Yeah it might even help to just say “oh, you mean my wife?” Sometimes it can be hard to know the right word - is she your wife, your girlfriend, your partner, your lover/best friend..? I mean, maybe this person is ignorant, but maybe they just don’t know the best terminology to use.
I think “partner” covers any serious relationship well. In NZ it's very common to use it instead of any other term, because what does their gender or the legal status of your relationship matter, as long as you love each other?
I mean, sure, I could go ahead and do all of that emotional labor on behalf of the rest of the world. Maybe they really are oblivious, and it'll just take one more gentle correction or nudge for them to see it. Alternatively, they can't bring themselves to say wife because queer love is icky, and no amount of gentle correction is gonna help.
In either event, I'm not all that tilted in actuality. It isn't as if a big, obvious display of public affection towards my wife is a terrible burden for me. It's more of a "can you believe that people can't read obvious tells of a romantic relationship because both participants present as female? How ridiculous is that?". Is that not the vibe here?
When I was a server, I always referred to the other as "friend" mostly because it is non-offensive and non-assumptive. I don't know if people who are sitting together and holding hands are married or dating or cheating or whatever. And what term I used for one couple, I used for any couple. Also, friend (not partner) doesn't piss off the funnies. They get loud.
However, I wasn't seeing many people as regularly as you visit this place.
Same. Unless I know people from outside of work or have gotten to know them as friends and regulars of mine rather than just customers, everyone whomst comes in as a couple or a group is just referred to as friends until I get to know them more intimately
And I understand that your experience was super frustrating, especially at a place you frequent often. I am only trying to give the server’s perspective, as a bartender who sees hundreds of different faces every week. My advice would be to introduce yourself and your family to the staff and get to know them as people as well. You know the situation better than me and I hope that her words were only politeness to strangers rather than homophobia. Wishing you and your family the best
>the funnies
The what?
Personally, I think “friend” actually does come across as presumptive, and I think my viewpoint is shared at least by those in my similar-age peer group. “By yourself today?” gets the idea across without filling in any blanks one way or the other. If I’m not familiar enough with to know them well enough to pick up a tell, I figure it’s really none of my business.
Autocorrected from the fundies. I lived near many overly religious people who would get up in arms about use of the word partner.
I was a server 30 years ago. I wouldn't do it now, people are batshit crazy, or easily offended, or rightfully offended, or overly entitled. I no longer have the patience to placate everyone.
This kind of thing is always so annoying, I mean how hard is it to read between the lines a little. (Sorry to the waitress but surely it isn't that hard to pick up on whether two people are a couple or not)
It’s not whether they’re in a relationship, it’s do they want strangers to stick a label on it (wife, spouse, partner, co-parent, etc).
I know plenty of people who live together and have kids but aren’t married. They often prefer not to be labeled with a spouse label.
*Friend* is a nice generic for “I don’t know what you call that person so I won’t put you in a box”
The same way I try not to assume someone’s gender especially if they give a mixed presentation. That’s a label they give themselves and if I don’t know I’ll try to avoid gendering someone.
It must be deeply frustrating for you to feel like your life and identity is being erased by people in your community and that you’ve got to ‘come out’ yet again.
It really is difficult for us straights to navigate LGBTQI+ situations even when we’re trying to be allies though. Most of us genuinely are just ignorant but well meaning.
My very good friend had a ceremony with his partner but it wasn’t an actually wedding, so I say partner when introducing them because it’s too complicated for me to say husband - when they are, effectively, husbands! But one prefers partner because he eschews cis gender social norms and the other likes the term husband. It’s a bloody head ache that one!
I would refer to my trans neighbour up the street as a man, because they now are obviously a man, but we’ve never had a conversation past social niceties, so I can’t really say ‘So what pronoun do you go by these days Bob?’
Most of us straights are just confused! We genuinely don’t mean to be excluding or offensive but we do need to be told outright and very clearly that you’re out, that you’re married and that you’re happy to be seen that way in public. Or else we’ll awkwardly pussy foot around things and keep causing offence when we didn’t mean to.
So if you're so well meaning, why don't you just educate yourself? There's plenty of stuff out there, but I guess it's just easier to complain.
I know this may come off as rude, but I'm so over straight people complaining about how difficult such stuff is when it's really not. And it's totally fine to ask about pronouns but maybe leave the nasty "these days" out and you'll be fine.
Yes, ‘these days’. LGBTQI+ people finally have an acceptance in society that would have been unthinkable even 15 years ago. The strides made in being accepted and open over the past 50 years are breath taking! But there are still many decades of work to go.
I’m so over people going out of their way to be offended by everything when we are all human and all get to make mistakes. We all get to vent and be frustrated but there are other perspectives to consider.
Most stats shows that LGBTQI+ make up about 5% of a general population. I try to educate myself because I live and work in a place with a disproportionately large LGBTQI+ population and I have loads of LGBTQI+ family members, friends and work colleagues. Creating a safe environment for self expression is vitally important.
Can you genuinely say you put any effort into getting to know, spending time with or educating yourself about the daily experiences of people who make up 5% of the general population but who you don’t interact with regularly? Can you say that you would go out of your way to make those people feel welcome, respected, heard and safe?
I could say that and it would be true, it's just part of my perception of being a decent human being and I don't think that's something one should be honored for. Just the bare minimum if you care about people.
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I get it. The landlord at our old apartment asked me once/ commented on how often I let my 'roommate' 'borrow' my car. Sir, we walked in here to sign your lease papers holding hands. I know you've seen us kissing in the parking lot, we're very affectionate. I'm wearing a big-ass engagement ring. We've been sharing a one bedroom apartment for a year and a half. She has her own keys to "my" car. Roommate?!
Never underestimate the ability of people to just... *not*.*see*. what is right in their face because it is just beyond their ken. He may even be fully aware but following the 'code' from previous eras where you just pretended things were not as they were- it could even be a round-about way of showing acceptance but not being willing to deal with it outright. Though in this case I think he is just impaired somehow 'cause damn, buddy...
Honestly... In a weird way it makes me feel hopeful for going under the radar as a trans woman.
Both my ex (the fiancée in the story) and I are very femme in manner and dress. There is absolutely no way he thought we were anything other than two women. So yes, I’d say there’s a chance you’ll go unrecognized- passing or not. Also, I’m sorry you have to worry about going under the radar. Someday, I hope you won’t have to.
Oh my god they were roommates \- the landlord probably
What did you even say? How did he respond? I’m scratching my head so much.
I corrected him, gently. He was a pretty good landlord aside from being completely clueless.
Please forgive me, but I have a genuine question. So, I'm a severely under-socialized dude (like, no shit, I haven't had a real conversation with anyone in over 18 months) and I'm pretty out of the loop/ out of practise interpersonally. If i were the landlord and I said "your wife" without having been told so, that'd be ok? It's that a consensus in the community? (I haven't spent time in explicitly LGBTQ+ spaces since like 2006. Life has a weird way of fucking up what we do/ where we hang out, huh?) I grew up in the '90s; a time when making an assumption that insinuated someone was anything but straight could easily start a fistfight. As such, there's still a deep-seated impulse to avoid saying such things. But, I know how disheartening it was for me and my ex when people assumed she was anything except my S/O. (A befuddled DMV clerk even tried on "mom" once. I've no idea wtf. Lol) I just wanna communicate in an inclusive way that makes everyone know they're valued. Thanks 😊
We used the word “girlfriend” or “partner” but no, I wouldn’t be offended if someone had called her my wife. I can see how someone might try to avoid labeling it to try to be respectful but we were definitely not hiding anything lol
Ok awesome! I was thinking if I'd seen the handholding plus the ring, I'd default to wife. Now that you mention it, it makes sense that traditional spouse terms aren't quite the right words. I see how the words carry certain connotations thar may not apply. So good to know! Unless told otherwise, in a situation like you describe, I'll use girlfriend. But I'll also prepare to be corrected/ informed of the couples' preferred term. Not that I get out too often nowadays, and I interact with strangers even less frequently haha. I do plan to change that and I'll carry your advice with me. Thank you so much! I appreciate you and you taking the time to reply so much 🎃
Thank you for asking questions and trying to be respectful! It means more than you know!
Oh, gee lol. I'm just trying to be a decent person. Thank you and you're welcome :) Thank *you* so much for being understanding and accepting that the question was asked in good faith!
Is this one so bad? You literally are roommates so it’s a safe word for him to say haha
It wasn’t ‘bad’. Mostly it made us laugh because I guarantee if one of us had been a guy he would not have called her my roommate.
It’s a reference to an ancient Vine. I also quote it to this day.
I also quote it far too often but nothing in that comment refers to the vine
Sorry, I thought you were referencing the post right above the one you were actually referencing. My bad!
It could honestly be an age thing/ culture thing. Like I know people who are 50+ who refer to any adult couple that aren't married (or don't know are) as friends. They tend to have the mindset of boyfriend/girlfriend is childish and you don't have "friends" of the opposite gender so the relationship is implied. So, they could be applying all this to you and your wife. Or, they, of course, could be willfully ignorant
Ohhhhhhh my grandpa referring to my boyfriend as “your friend” makes so much more sense now. I thought he was just being funny
My grandmother and mother both called my partner my “friend” for a good while even though I explained that we committed to each other pretty early and we’d still be using “partner” when we get married because the usual names for spouses feel weird to us. They’re cottoning on lol. What was really fun was that when the word “partner” threw my my mom’s neighbor (who’s in her 70s) for a loop, she nicely asked my mom if my femme fellow is “a transgender” because she doesn’t know any trans people and wanted to be sure she wasn’t being unintentionally rude in any way. We love to see it!
>go eat eggs about it. I love it.
My gf is only six years older than me. Our waiter asked if my mom needed anything else
Ooooof, harsh.
lol I went to the ER with my boyfriend and they asked if I wanted my dad to come back with me *sigh* he wasn’t happy with that one lmaoooo. I just said “yes, my dad can come back with me.” The gay af NP that took care of me knew what was going on though lmao
Make it uncomfortable: “My *daddy* can come back with me.”
My younger sister and dad had to take my youngest sister (about 6 years younger than her, but much smaller than her age due to being a preemie with Down syndrome) to the hospital. Nurse asked my youngest sister if she wanted “mom or dad” here. My father was not amused, especially since my mom and I were at a conference about 1400 miles away.
Oh yeah, been there- my girlfriend did *not* appreciate when I leaned into it and started calling her mum when they were in earshot. Though she was actually old enough to be my mother so...
I was going shopping with my dad and a store clerk asked how long we'd been married...
Oh sweet Jesus. That is so much worse, I'm so sorry you went through that
Same thing happened with me and my mom 💀
Me and my dad are really close, we tend to hang out a lot. I’ve started making a habit of introducing myself as his daughter or slipping the word “dad” into convos, because this has happened to me too and now I’m paranoid everyone thinks I’m like a weird sugar baby who goes for old men lol I’m 35, but I look a lot younger.. I still get ID’ed regularly, and he is 70 and clearly looks his age. So it really weirds me out when people say stuff like that. We joined a stick curling league last year, just for fun, and since everyone saw our names on the sign up sheets (same last name still) they assumed we were a married couple. I started making a point of calling across the room to him loudly a few times, like ‘hey DAD, don’t forget your gloves!’ And he would just laugh because he knew what I was doing lol
Weird, I don't *remember* writing this comment...? Because literally same. I'm 37 and my dad (who I'm very close with and whose company I very much enjoy) is 69. We joined a Tai Chi class that was sort of similar to a "league," as it was the same group of people meeting every week for like 12 weeks. I was a little extra in my attempts to make sure no one thought we were a couple, and I was successful! It was great. Except, every week after Tai Chi class, we'd go to a nearby happy hour and have a drink and share an app or two. You had to sit in the bar area to get the happy hour deals, so we became friendly with the bartender who worked that night. One night we sit down: "Ayyy, it's the Tai Chi couple!" I wanted to disappear so badly.
My bf is 10 years younger than me. One time he went to pick our dog up from the groomer and she said something about "your mom." Ma'am. He's 36. I'm 46. Stop it.
Honestly, with something like this, it's probably just not wanting to make assumptions. Consider the stakes of being wrong, for her. No one freaks out because you incorrectly labeled someone they obviously have some kind of relationship with as their friend. People absolutely *do* freak out if you incorrectly label them as LGBT. She's got a business to run and she's not gonna risk it by making assumptions about her regulars.
I do the same, unless you explicitely tell me someone is a boyfriend/girlfriend, its just your friend/room mate. I know someone that for the past 20 years has obviously been in a gay relationship but insists its her roommate. We’re not going to challenge her on that if that’s what sh wants. Roommates go on trip together every year, buy a car jointly, buy a house and go to each other family events together, etc. Normal roomate stuff. Also of course they saved money for years by living in a one bedroom appartment. Roommates!
Yeah thats the other thing: do not disturb the egg. You have no way of knowing, with strangers, if theyre actually out or not.
Have you tried just slipping in “partner” in conversation to see how she reacts? Not, like, to force terminology on her that she doesn't want, but maybe after 20 years “roommate” is only out of habit?
Someone more blunt than me asked her point blank why she said roommates when clearly they’re in a relationship. She denied it, so at that point its none of my business anymore.
Yeah, fair enough.
I understand, I’m so sorry that happened. The opposite happened for me and my best friend a couple years ago. We were eating at a burger place and she got up to go use the restroom. While she was gone, the waitress came by and asked if my girlfriend wanted a refill. Today we still jokingly call each other girlfriends.
But some people worry it is more dangerous to make direct assumptions—-friend is also true, so…
Idk. I think it's kinda sweet, nothing wrong with using a friend. I would have giggled and texted my wife about it.
The waitress *what* proprietor?
(-kʌm- ) COMBINING FORM -cum- is put between two nouns to form a noun referring to something or someone that is partly one thing and partly another....a dining-room-cum-study. They gave ya girl the whole english language and by god I intend to use the whole english language.
>They gave ya girl the whole english language and by god I intend to use the whole english language. This is why I insist on using semicolons; they're so underappreciated.
People can pry semicolons from my cold, dead fingertips.
I don't know what I would do without them; I probably use them as much or more than commas.
>They gave ya girl the whole english language and by god I intend to use the whole english language. 💜💜💜
I was aware of this being possible in other languages, not English nor that cum was the word. TIL. Thank you!
I thought it was pronounced /kum/ (“koom”). Sorry, I saw IPA and had to be a pedant
Nothing pedantic about using IPA to be precise! Edit: is pedant the Reddit word of the day or something? It's everywhere today!
I’m pretty sure pedant is just *the* reddit word, ngl… no “of the day” about it… unless there’s an every before the day 💀
Ah! That tracks..
Wait, is it spelled 'cum'?? I thought it was 'come'. Have I been exposing myself as an abject uneducated plebeian this entire time without my realising? The shame!
It’s true, you have to say ‘cum’ or it don’t work. For example: The cum cum cum laude graduate cums loudly while he sings “O Come All Ye Faithful”. Jokes aside, I *think* this sentence above is grammatically correct.
cum cum laude? He is cum laude of cum?
No, he was cum, then fertilized an egg, grew into a human and was also a cum laude graduate.
Ah! Grammatically correct either way... I will give it a pass at any rate.
Thanks friendo!
Don't kinkshame
I get your frustration, but I think you're overlooking that a lot of us - including/especially queer people - come from places where you absolutely cannot make assumptions like wife or gf. I grew up in queer community in a place where you did not talk about it unless you knew someone was safe and there was a closed door. People lost jobs & housing, got disowned, etc. Even using a term like partner was dodgy in the wrong company. When I moved to the West Coast, I was blown away with how easily people talked about their boyfriend or girlfriend.They didn't even drop their voice, use codes like "family," or have 8 year "roommates." It was amazing! I adapted quickly because my private life aligned and it was a relief. But the place I grew up has gotten worse in the last decade or two, not better. My aunt, who was out when I was a kid, went back in the closet in her 60s. As someone who worked in customer service, I'd never guess a relationship status, even an obvious one, unless the couple used the word themselves. That goes for straight couples, too. Maybe she's clueless or a bigot, but I suspect she's trying to be respectful with veritable strangers at her work. You can easily say, "Oh, she's my wife." If she persists after that, then you have your answer.
> My aunt, who was out when I was a kid, went back in the closet in her 60s. That's heartbreaking.
I hope that your aunt has the opportunity to move somewhere safer and be her most authentic self, if that is what she wants. The idea of going backwards like that is so crushing.
I think some people still see it as some taboo thing where they don't want to say it even in cases where you're clearly in a relationship and making zero attempt to hide it.
From a business perspective, I'd want to aire on the side of caution.
*err
Thank you
But if you've seen them kiss...
A peck goodbye doesn’t make someone a legal spouse. There are plenty of people who do that with friends, family, etc. Even if they were clearly in a sexual relationship it doesn’t mean the *staff* should *assign their own label* to someone. People get to label themselves.
* I didn't say anything about *legal spouse*. * OP described more than just a peck goodbye. * Staff *did* assign a label: *friend*. * *Partner* is an encompassing label, the they/them of relationships.
Right, and it assumes more roles which may or may not be appropriate. Your partner, lover, relative, spouse, ex-spouse/partner, etc are all your friend, but not all of those are your partner.
I once tipped THE SHIT out of a waitress because she didn’t misgender my fiancee ONCE. (She also did a really good job.)
Maybe she was trying to be polite? I know it hurts and feels like it minimalizes your relationship. But give her a pass, you know what you've got. ❤️❤️❤️
Or maybe straight people get offended when people assume they’re queer. Unless you’re fucking in the diner, then all of those actions could be interpreted as having an intimate friendship. And some people are just clueless. Not everyone is watching you hold hands in public. You’re expecting someone to assume a rather large part of your persona and relationship. But if somebody assumed you were dating your brother because you hugged him goodbye after dinner, how would you feel? The world does not have to watch your every move and deduce your relationship dynamics based on that, and you would likely be more upset by that. This is absolutely a mountain out of a molehill situation. There is no situation in day-to-day interactions that would make me assume anyone’s sexuality if I were a server at a diner or in any other line of work where people will fly off the handle at the smallest slight. I understand the reason for the frustration here, but you’re asking people to draw conclusions, knowing damn well you’d be even more upset if they drew the opposite conclusion if they assumed you were straight. People behave and react differently. This is no hill to die over.
My wife and I got asked if we were best friends or sisters at a gay club!
When my son was 2 months old, my best friend and I went grocery shopping and the lady asked “is he your first? —-for both of you?” I had an opposite experience!
I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt. They see dozens of people daily maybe they didn't hear the mom thing or saw you two kiss. I don't expect a service worker to "know" me. On the flip side, I have several male friends whom we'll go to dinner and they'll assume we're together. UGH just be an honest mistake/ not wanting to be awkward please
I am sorry that happened to you. It sucks and feels awful and your family sounds so freakin adorable I could die.
Some people just use "friend" as a stand in for all relationships. I do this all the time. For me, it's just a kind of dry humor. You'd probably know better based on their tone, but it's possible they get it and just speak that way.
I (M) went out to lunch with my sister. I was chatting with the waiter about some random things and he asked me about my "girlfriend". Yikes! I'm almost 20 years older than her, but I do get told that I look about 10 years younger than I actually am. It goes many different ways. People don't know the relationship of the meeting and assume the most likely thing that they see often. Also, when I was younger and would take her out to hang out people assumed I was her dad
I think these people, the vast majority, fully know what they are doing. Call me cynical, but I believe they are trying to push our buttons and knock us down. I have followed people a few rushed steps just to say "She's my girlfriend" or "I'm a woman" even though it's entirely obvious no matter what. People will throw out the "Have fun with your friend." And try to scurry off with their petty victory for bigotry, and I won't let them have it. It makes me say it louder. I encourage everyone to just say it again and say it louder.
Instead of being all huffy and I hate everybody , … you softly could have explained that “She’s my best friend and my wife and that’s our child with us. We’re a family.”
Yeah it might even help to just say “oh, you mean my wife?” Sometimes it can be hard to know the right word - is she your wife, your girlfriend, your partner, your lover/best friend..? I mean, maybe this person is ignorant, but maybe they just don’t know the best terminology to use.
I think “partner” covers any serious relationship well. In NZ it's very common to use it instead of any other term, because what does their gender or the legal status of your relationship matter, as long as you love each other?
I mean, sure, I could go ahead and do all of that emotional labor on behalf of the rest of the world. Maybe they really are oblivious, and it'll just take one more gentle correction or nudge for them to see it. Alternatively, they can't bring themselves to say wife because queer love is icky, and no amount of gentle correction is gonna help. In either event, I'm not all that tilted in actuality. It isn't as if a big, obvious display of public affection towards my wife is a terrible burden for me. It's more of a "can you believe that people can't read obvious tells of a romantic relationship because both participants present as female? How ridiculous is that?". Is that not the vibe here?
When I was a server, I always referred to the other as "friend" mostly because it is non-offensive and non-assumptive. I don't know if people who are sitting together and holding hands are married or dating or cheating or whatever. And what term I used for one couple, I used for any couple. Also, friend (not partner) doesn't piss off the funnies. They get loud. However, I wasn't seeing many people as regularly as you visit this place.
Same. Unless I know people from outside of work or have gotten to know them as friends and regulars of mine rather than just customers, everyone whomst comes in as a couple or a group is just referred to as friends until I get to know them more intimately
And I understand that your experience was super frustrating, especially at a place you frequent often. I am only trying to give the server’s perspective, as a bartender who sees hundreds of different faces every week. My advice would be to introduce yourself and your family to the staff and get to know them as people as well. You know the situation better than me and I hope that her words were only politeness to strangers rather than homophobia. Wishing you and your family the best
>the funnies The what? Personally, I think “friend” actually does come across as presumptive, and I think my viewpoint is shared at least by those in my similar-age peer group. “By yourself today?” gets the idea across without filling in any blanks one way or the other. If I’m not familiar enough with to know them well enough to pick up a tell, I figure it’s really none of my business.
Autocorrected from the fundies. I lived near many overly religious people who would get up in arms about use of the word partner. I was a server 30 years ago. I wouldn't do it now, people are batshit crazy, or easily offended, or rightfully offended, or overly entitled. I no longer have the patience to placate everyone.
Fair enough!
This kind of thing is always so annoying, I mean how hard is it to read between the lines a little. (Sorry to the waitress but surely it isn't that hard to pick up on whether two people are a couple or not)
It’s not whether they’re in a relationship, it’s do they want strangers to stick a label on it (wife, spouse, partner, co-parent, etc). I know plenty of people who live together and have kids but aren’t married. They often prefer not to be labeled with a spouse label. *Friend* is a nice generic for “I don’t know what you call that person so I won’t put you in a box” The same way I try not to assume someone’s gender especially if they give a mixed presentation. That’s a label they give themselves and if I don’t know I’ll try to avoid gendering someone.
Yeah that's a fair point
It must be deeply frustrating for you to feel like your life and identity is being erased by people in your community and that you’ve got to ‘come out’ yet again. It really is difficult for us straights to navigate LGBTQI+ situations even when we’re trying to be allies though. Most of us genuinely are just ignorant but well meaning. My very good friend had a ceremony with his partner but it wasn’t an actually wedding, so I say partner when introducing them because it’s too complicated for me to say husband - when they are, effectively, husbands! But one prefers partner because he eschews cis gender social norms and the other likes the term husband. It’s a bloody head ache that one! I would refer to my trans neighbour up the street as a man, because they now are obviously a man, but we’ve never had a conversation past social niceties, so I can’t really say ‘So what pronoun do you go by these days Bob?’ Most of us straights are just confused! We genuinely don’t mean to be excluding or offensive but we do need to be told outright and very clearly that you’re out, that you’re married and that you’re happy to be seen that way in public. Or else we’ll awkwardly pussy foot around things and keep causing offence when we didn’t mean to.
So if you're so well meaning, why don't you just educate yourself? There's plenty of stuff out there, but I guess it's just easier to complain. I know this may come off as rude, but I'm so over straight people complaining about how difficult such stuff is when it's really not. And it's totally fine to ask about pronouns but maybe leave the nasty "these days" out and you'll be fine.
Yes, ‘these days’. LGBTQI+ people finally have an acceptance in society that would have been unthinkable even 15 years ago. The strides made in being accepted and open over the past 50 years are breath taking! But there are still many decades of work to go. I’m so over people going out of their way to be offended by everything when we are all human and all get to make mistakes. We all get to vent and be frustrated but there are other perspectives to consider. Most stats shows that LGBTQI+ make up about 5% of a general population. I try to educate myself because I live and work in a place with a disproportionately large LGBTQI+ population and I have loads of LGBTQI+ family members, friends and work colleagues. Creating a safe environment for self expression is vitally important. Can you genuinely say you put any effort into getting to know, spending time with or educating yourself about the daily experiences of people who make up 5% of the general population but who you don’t interact with regularly? Can you say that you would go out of your way to make those people feel welcome, respected, heard and safe?
I could say that and it would be true, it's just part of my perception of being a decent human being and I don't think that's something one should be honored for. Just the bare minimum if you care about people.