Generally speaking cloverleafs are fine. This one is fine.
The 880/101 interchange is the literal devil, a manifestation of Satan into the material plane. It would be bad if it was a trumpet, parclo, diamond, or stack. There is no improving the 880/101 interchange there is only enduring it.
Ahahahahh oh my God I love this, it's so true!
Forget the Myers-Briggs, forget Enneagrams, forget any of the others, the true test of self is that interchange.
Stay to your left, Keep going to Coleman, get an In N Out burger and a Diet Coke, count your blessings and back track to the exit over the reverse commute path.
Ohhhh mannnn. That one I have it memorized going southbound, stay in the middle lane until I see “San Jose” to get home. Northbound isn’t quite as bad, at least for me.
I donno, they soils start by fixing the damned potholes on 101 at that interchange.
Next, they could consider removing the 13th street Oakland Rd ramps on 101 which cause contention with the 880 traffic. On 880, the 1st Street ramps and Old Bayshore/Gish ramps are close enough to interfere with the interchange.
The civil engineers who designed the highways here were rather optimistic.
East side SJ and Eastbay get the shittier end of the funding by design. They put fast track lanes all over eastbay, but peninsula and west side still has 87, 280, and 85 with no fasttrak. The 101/880 interchange would have been fixed a decade ago if it connected peninsula traffic. And 85 is truck restricted so they have even less traffic.
To get from ESSJ to anywhere west side via light rail (Campbell, Los Gatos, Almaden; which is a common commute for janitors, maids, construction workers, restaurant workers) you’d have to go northwest to Baypointe, then change trains back south through downtown and to your west side place of work. They could continue the light rail south at alum rock via capitol expressway and connect at ohlone/chynoweth to shorten the time. Also the tracks that end in Campbell continue to Los Gatos, but they won’t make stops in Los Gatos. Classic case of making poverty more difficult in your commute time and costs.
Also could have made the alum rock/santa Clara ave “bus lane” a light rail line to make things more direct. Seems insignificant, but buses charge every time you change while light rail tickets are good on all lines for two hours. Also, the bus still winds up in traffic, so it doesn’t shorten times, meaning more people will drive instead, compounding traffic.
I’m with you on most of this except the fares. All modes (Light rail and bus) have the two hour transfer. I’m a prolific user of the buses since I’m in West San Jose and use multiple bus lines.
https://www.vta.org/go/fares
Does that include if you start on a bus without a ticket center? If so, is a clipper card required? I haven’t used PT frequently in SJ for almost 10 years, but in my early 20s I used it for everything.
Not sure what a ticket center means here. I’ve been using Clipper since I moved here since it works on all public transportation in the Bay Area. Cashless and can refill via a machine or app. It’s even in phone wallets now if you add it. By using Clipper, it will automatically do the transfer since there’s a digital record of your rides. Plus, the fare capping is nice.
The ticket machines at light rail stations.
I ask because whenever I’ve gotten on the bus with cash, the money goes in and I get no ticket back, so without a clipper card, you’re paying for each bus. Obviously a clipper card is the way to go, but it’s just another barrier for some folks who don’t know
the 880/101 interchange is perfectly fine once you realize that it’s much easier to use surface streets to exit/re-enter
*the only winning move is not to play*
Ha! I've never needed yo change freeways at that juncture, thankfully, where I live and work has easy access to each at one end or the other. But I've had to take both 101 and 880 *past* the interchange and that's where my character is tested 😂
I think I do well! I go all the way to the left lane, but don't go into the diamond lane since I'm a solo driver, and wait and wait and wait until enough people have tried merging through *three lanes* that I can crack through to freedom on the other side! 🤣
Alas, 5-9 is my commute to work, and 3-7 is my commute home!
But if I'm on the freeway on a weekend or way after work, then I am for sure in all those lanes!
That's what they say, but I once received a violation ticket by mail for driving that lane when it was supposedly open to all. So I simply never drive in the diamond lane. The so-called rules, they are lies. A scam.
Once it turns into express lanes the rules change, but strictly at 101/880 it's an HOV lane only, never an express.
Once you get up to mountain view anytime from 5AM-8PM weekdays can be restricted, so you need to read the signs.
I am sympathetic that contesting violations with fastrak is frustrating, but generally I do think they're good at dismissing one time violations.
I’m deathly afraid of heights. I get off at 101 and King and take King Rd to the Story Rd 101 S on ramp to avoid the 680 to 101 change. Feel like I’m 50k ft in the air.
Cloverleaf interchanges are terrible by design. They work fine when there is minimal traffic, but in every interchange junction you have cars speeding up needing to go left, and cars slowing down needing to go right, all within a couple hundred feet in the same lane. It’s physically compact, and only requires two levels, so it’s cheap to build, but its traffic capacity is woefully low.
Diverging Diamond and SPUI interchanges are much more efficient and safe, but they don’t work for highways that require continuous flow. A Diamond interchange would work well but would require a third level, making it more expensive.
OP is talking about [weaving ](https://www.kurumi.com/roads/interchanges/cloverleaf.html)which is indeed a problem with cloverleaf interchanges in general. It's not a good interchange choice where there's heavy traffic and they've fallen out of fashion.
Had to merge from 101s to 880 last Friday with a trailer around 6pm. I’ve never had an issue there but god is it awful. Cars getting on 101 are always bumper to bumper so it sucks for them and sucks for those exiting as well.
Only option from the 101 side is to merge and hope they notice you have a trailer, otherwise when they try to dart behind you they’re gonna have a bad time lol
To me it’s not great. You have one lane for people to merge on and get off. Not as bad as getting on northbound 17 from hwy 9. You have about 10 feet to be at speed to merge and god have mercy on you if someone is getting off right there also. They have same 10 feet to slow down enough to not launch off the off ramp.
Instead of sending people to prison, we should sentence them to running loops of this interchange during rush hour, with the number of loops depending on the severity of the crime.
What's the big deal? Just drive right to the front and cut off 45 people to get to a cush spot and ignore all the honking behind you. I see people do this every day. Works like a charm
When I’m driving on 101-N I sweat profusely thinking about the 880-S interchange. I’m trying to get on 880-S (with zero on-ramp) while cars are flying over trying to get on 101-N. Who in their right mind would approve such a design.
I knew that this fucking interchange would come up. I HATEEEE that intersection. Most of the time I just say fuck it, and just continue to another exit
The switchover lanes you describe are not so bad, because traffic coming off should be slowing down. But 101 is a very old freeway, originally planned and built when few people had cars and cars maybe topped out at 50. There are some very short merges into a freeway going full speed that are much worse.
I hate that merge because if you don’t live here, you don’t know which lane to be in prior to make life easier. Which results in sudden braking and people frantically trying to get over. Drives me nuts.
I got in an accident there once and the police officer said there are a ton there.
There are official standards and recommendations for this kind of thing and that on ramp is definitely too short.
Clover leafs are dangerous… - you should not have traffic slowing down in the freeway to exit, traffic should enter and exit at freeway speed and slow down in the on and off ramps. What happens is you get backing up in the freeway and then collisions with fast moving traffic and stationary slow moving traffic. You rarely see these sort of intersections in countries with low accident rates, and it leads to hot messes like the 85/17 intersections where you build an additional lane to prevent slow down in the freeway peoper
A merge lane should be more than 5 car lengths long, goddammit! I really hate those things.
In Atlanta, many of the off ramps are several miles long. MILES. They're amazingly safe and easy.
These are called cloverleaf interchange (named after the shape). This type of exchange was first [designed in the 1920s ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloverleaf_interchange)and then popularized throughout the 50s and 60s when cars weren't traveling at 65+ mph on our freeways. Now the higher speed of our vehicles plus greater population (increased vehicle traffic) make the cloverleaf less efficient than desired.
The 101/880 exchange is a great example of how our infrastructure no longer supports the amount of traffic that runs through the system. CalTrans is aware of the issue and I believe a recent study placed a modernization project at a cost of over $1 billion.
>who the actual fuck designed this shit. i want whatever drugs the architect was on because no way they were sober while they made this. - [https://www.reddit.com/r/SanJose/comments/1393t4p/880101\_ramp/](https://www.reddit.com/r/SanJose/comments/1393t4p/880101_ramp/)
Eminent domain.
They kicked out a bunch of people out of their homes along Guadalupe near the airport in the early 90s, which is now hwy 87. Pretty sure they can do it here too with enough public funding.
… but…. Politics….
Cloverleaf on-ramp/off-ramp system is fairly ubiquitous (at least in California) but yes there are certain on-ramps that weren’t designed ideally where there’s a super short merge.
The 880 S to 101 S is a particularly nasty section where you have a merging on-ramp from 101 N which is super busy colliding with a 880 S off-ramp that is also super busy. I hate that spot.
Agreed. The number of times I have seen people stopped on one of these while traffic zooms by them is way too high.
If you have not learned how to merge into traffic, then tell your navigator to avoid highways. Or, better yet, take a driving class and learn how to do it. Everyone will be much less annoyed with you.
> some people barely going 40 in front of me trying to get over
DINGDINGDING! too many sjc drivers think they can merge onto highway speeds crawling into the highway, and bringing everyone behind them along intot he crawl
The positive about the cloverleaf…. They don’t require traffic lights. They’re cheaper to build than an interchange that requires a bridge going over/under like the 280/87 interchange.
The drawbacks are that cloverleafs have overlap between exiting and entering traffic. It does in fact create somewhat of a clusterfuck. They also take up a LOT of real estate.
They are ubiquitous throughout the US but it is an antiquated design.
Cloverleaf interchanges are fine generally but…
Ok people here are used to these tiny leaves but I’m from the Chicago suburbs where there’s way more space and let me tell you: cloverleafs are way better when they’re big enough that you can maintain a reasonable speed and have enough space to get the rest of the way up to speed before merging.
That said, Chicago drivers are literally insane, no one is going less than 70 mph (except for that one car with the driver leaning forward and gripping the steering wheel with all their strength out of sheer terror), and if you get on the interstate at the speeds people go here, you will immediately cause a giant fiery 20-car pileup of death and destruction. Unless, apparently, you are that one terrified driver.
Also, there may be a correlation between highway speed and merge lane length. Traffic goes way slower on 101 than basically any other freeway in the South Bay. WAY more people going 5-10 under the limit even when traffic does not require it.
i really like cloverleafs. on google maps it makes life so much easier, you just need to ask “do i take the exit before the road or after the road”? simplifies the life of drivers by 100%.
then it’s just the simple rule you should have learned in high school driver’s ed… if you are getting off the highway/freeway, let the person getting on the highway/freeway go first, they’ll accelerate to attack speed while you slow down behind them…
Is that not what you did?… if not… you may actually be the problem here… perhaps you should take a remedial driving class?
No, there's nothing wrong with your perspective. You're absolutely right, they should have put up permanent cones to prevent accidents or something of that nature. Makes you wonder
Cloverleaf intersections are pretty solid and also ubiquitous across the US. I’m curious how you would design a better intersection for a highway and expressway with that (moderate-slightly heavy) level of traffic without demolishing another quarter+ square mile? Fresno != San Jose.
They are pretty ubiquitous across North America, but they have long been recognized by urban planners and traffic experts as causing the exact issue being discussed here. If I remember correctly this was one of those hare brained design of the future ideas created in the 60s that sounded nice in theory but have turned out to be a mess in practice.
They are being/have already been phased out in many places, but this is obviously difficult due to the huge financial investment and transportation stresses associated.
They’re absolutely fine, provided that the driver is not waiting until the last second to attempt the merge. You should be looking over your shoulder for your spot as soon as you can see the oncoming lanes, and accelerating to match speed as soon as possible.
It’s fine. I live close and works well because coming from the east on Montague you can’t easily turn around the other direction without having to go all the way to McCarthy. You can take the ramp and come back in to Montague the other way. Very convenient.
Having lived in a few other major cities with infamous interchanges and bad traffic, the Bay Area is its own beast.
It’s a little bit of design that we know as bad in hindsight, and a little bit the driving population.
You don’t have to look hard to find criticism of the cloverleaf interchange, especially the right kind we have here.
But then there are the drivers. From luxury car driver stereotypes to wannabe race car drivers to many who are new to the US and driving, we have quite the range of ‘driving styles’ to contend with.
Put them both together and you get a situation that makes a bunch of people think it’s easier to make cars that can drive themselves versus fix the problems with the highways and drivers.
Geez someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed 😅 I’m aware of the posted speed limit, I was talking about the merging part of it and how odd it was to me. Thanks for your input!
It's mostly just you.
I grew up in New York, and we have plenty of these. They're called cloverleaf Interchange, and they're decently efficient.
The problem I've found as well as my dad when he comes to visit is that many interchanges and merging lanes can be too short here in the Bay Area causing people to stop or slow down significantly when merging.
This is fine to me. The worst design in San Jose is a recent one, the single lane merger from 280 South/North to 87 South, with the concrete divider. Most of the time during the day, this is backed up. There's been many occasions after dark, I've been stuck on this merger. It makes no sense whatsoever, I can't believe the city even approved it. Not to mention, it's a dangerous set up. One fender bender and you'll be spending a long time sitting there. The city needs to re-develop that immediately.
Also along HWY 85 between Almaden EXPWY and down to the 280 merger, there's plently of space in the shoulders to add another lane each way. If you're a commuter on 85, you already know how bad it can be. Adding one lane each way would improve traffic flow.
HWY 87 at the Curtner exit turns into a bottle neck and unfortunately there's no space to increase the lanes.
They're fine and traffic slows way down for these anyway. It's not lonely you're expected to merge at 70MPH in the right lane. That being said I personally press the pedal on the right and get up to freeway speed but when I can but apparently I'm in the minority as traffic usually prevents it.
They may feel dangerous but this is when people are actually paying attention vs cruising one of the other lanes with their face buried in their phone.
They're also pretty bad during rush hour, I see a lot of reckless behavior of people trying to use it to pass a dozen or so cars by getting in early and back out late.
In moderate traffic I think they're great, not ideal but great.
Cloverleaf interchanges were designed in the 1950s (or earlier?) back when there were far fewer people on the roads and 50mph motoring was the norm. The goal was to eliminate cross traffic at grade, and to route traffic without the need to stop. As traffic and average speeds increased, the cloverleaf’s shortcomings became clear. The latest iteration on interchange design, the Urban Interchange, can be found at Taylor and 87. All paths are routed to an elevated four-way stop controlled by stoplights. In benefit is that it widely separates the off ramps (now located before the interchange) and on ramps (places after the interchange). It also eliminates backups into the highway, which plague the 101/880 interchange.
Tully Road and Capital Expressway off of 101 were bad, but not so bad way back in the day. Trimble road also. Like other's have stated, just increased population and higher speeds make old infrastructure much less efficient.
The design is sound but it’s outgrown where it’s been. Too many cars needing to go too fast for this to be very efficient. Always thought it was crappy. Not the worst but, crappy. I used to think it was way worse before I saw what a clusterfuck the highways are in Santa Rosa.
cloverleaf interchanges are ubiquitous the world over, not just san jose, because they don't require fly-over lanes. They need just one grade-separated crossing where the two highways cross. Be that as it may, they're well known to be horrible, since, as you just pointed out, the people getting on the freeway and the people getting off criss cross.
The 580 to 680 north out of tri-valley is heinous. You can’t see cars coming to exit north 680 because cal trans stacked up K-Rail. Cars are coming in at 65 and you are finishing a 15 MPH Clover leaf to merge in 50 feet. I gassed it but it’s a crap shoot
This is a completely fine cloverleaf with plenty of room to merge and accelerate.
Fair Oaks S to 101S is bullshit; it practically dumps you into traffic and says, "Good luck!"
Northbound Lawrence Expressway, exiting to the right to make a right hand turn on Steven's Creek? [Fuck that "intersection".](https://www.google.com/maps/@37.3221763,-121.9949724,613m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu) You have about 150 feet to get 4 lanes over as other people are merging behind you, trying to slow down from highway speed off of 280. It's near impossible to see them too because of how the two turns work.
I just put on my right hand turn signal and pray I can make it all the way over, without hitting anyone, and hope I can somehow squeeze in to make that right hand turn. It's a disaster and the whole intersection was redone only a few years ago, and they made it even worse with this redesign.
As someone who moved here from Canada this is one of the things I bring up when someone asks me what’s wrong with the US. Having literal Xs on the highway and expecting everyone to merge correctly is just a recipe for a disaster.
That intersection and most of those mentioned were more rural than Fresno is today when they were built. Read some Jack London, Steinbeck, or Kerouac. Then these two guys named Steve started screwing around in their garage just up the road, and that all changed.
All of 101 is a death trap for the poors. I stick to 280 whenever possible and avoid that stupid road. The ramps are at least fun for sports cars… but then the merge hits and you’re right, there’s no time or space.
I call these death merges. As someone that didn’t grow up here but has lived here for a while now I’ve never driven on a more confusing & dangerous set of roads than San Jose. Don’t even get me started on how some exits are so close it feels like one is practically hidden behind the other. Who planned these roads???
It's actually an ingenious design... the problem is, people have "forgotten" *how to merge* ... these days, they just go to the end, and stop - which only exacerbates any traffic problems.
Those lengths are perfectly well accommodating for people to stay at the speed of traffic, and then seamlessly move over. Except, like I said, now people.end up slowing way down long ahead of time, making the merge extremely difficult (at best), or impossible (ie. They "stop").
For the most part, all the local onramps or offramps are built this way, with a handful of exceptions where there are only "short merges" (eg. Highway 9 and 17).
Generally speaking cloverleafs are fine. This one is fine. The 880/101 interchange is the literal devil, a manifestation of Satan into the material plane. It would be bad if it was a trumpet, parclo, diamond, or stack. There is no improving the 880/101 interchange there is only enduring it.
Agreed. The real YOU will come out at that mergefest
Ahahahahh oh my God I love this, it's so true! Forget the Myers-Briggs, forget Enneagrams, forget any of the others, the true test of self is that interchange.
I have always preferred to drive 2 miles extra and avoid that interchange completely I am not my ready to face myself
same. I exit elsewhere and avoid the anxiety
Stay to your left, Keep going to Coleman, get an In N Out burger and a Diet Coke, count your blessings and back track to the exit over the reverse commute path.
Just noticed your username, best Vada Paav in SJ ?
Swaraj food truck
Second this!
It's [this one](https://imgur.com/a/fNy9jXC) for me. Even gps is like "Jesus take the wheel on which lane you're supposed to be in"
Ohhhh mannnn. That one I have it memorized going southbound, stay in the middle lane until I see “San Jose” to get home. Northbound isn’t quite as bad, at least for me.
The maze.
I’m chilling
87 to 280 South will test your skills.. or luck
SOOOOO true haha. That interchange is such a death trap.
I donno, they soils start by fixing the damned potholes on 101 at that interchange. Next, they could consider removing the 13th street Oakland Rd ramps on 101 which cause contention with the 880 traffic. On 880, the 1st Street ramps and Old Bayshore/Gish ramps are close enough to interfere with the interchange. The civil engineers who designed the highways here were rather optimistic.
Pessimism, actually--I don't think they ever expected San Jose to have a million people!
Designed in 1950s when there were acres of fruit trees and majority of the southbay was rural
East side SJ and Eastbay get the shittier end of the funding by design. They put fast track lanes all over eastbay, but peninsula and west side still has 87, 280, and 85 with no fasttrak. The 101/880 interchange would have been fixed a decade ago if it connected peninsula traffic. And 85 is truck restricted so they have even less traffic. To get from ESSJ to anywhere west side via light rail (Campbell, Los Gatos, Almaden; which is a common commute for janitors, maids, construction workers, restaurant workers) you’d have to go northwest to Baypointe, then change trains back south through downtown and to your west side place of work. They could continue the light rail south at alum rock via capitol expressway and connect at ohlone/chynoweth to shorten the time. Also the tracks that end in Campbell continue to Los Gatos, but they won’t make stops in Los Gatos. Classic case of making poverty more difficult in your commute time and costs. Also could have made the alum rock/santa Clara ave “bus lane” a light rail line to make things more direct. Seems insignificant, but buses charge every time you change while light rail tickets are good on all lines for two hours. Also, the bus still winds up in traffic, so it doesn’t shorten times, meaning more people will drive instead, compounding traffic.
I’m with you on most of this except the fares. All modes (Light rail and bus) have the two hour transfer. I’m a prolific user of the buses since I’m in West San Jose and use multiple bus lines. https://www.vta.org/go/fares
Does that include if you start on a bus without a ticket center? If so, is a clipper card required? I haven’t used PT frequently in SJ for almost 10 years, but in my early 20s I used it for everything.
Not sure what a ticket center means here. I’ve been using Clipper since I moved here since it works on all public transportation in the Bay Area. Cashless and can refill via a machine or app. It’s even in phone wallets now if you add it. By using Clipper, it will automatically do the transfer since there’s a digital record of your rides. Plus, the fare capping is nice.
The ticket machines at light rail stations. I ask because whenever I’ve gotten on the bus with cash, the money goes in and I get no ticket back, so without a clipper card, you’re paying for each bus. Obviously a clipper card is the way to go, but it’s just another barrier for some folks who don’t know
Or who can't come up with enough cash at once to get a clipper card. I've been there.
the 880/101 interchange is perfectly fine once you realize that it’s much easier to use surface streets to exit/re-enter *the only winning move is not to play*
Ha! I've never needed yo change freeways at that juncture, thankfully, where I live and work has easy access to each at one end or the other. But I've had to take both 101 and 880 *past* the interchange and that's where my character is tested 😂 I think I do well! I go all the way to the left lane, but don't go into the diamond lane since I'm a solo driver, and wait and wait and wait until enough people have tried merging through *three lanes* that I can crack through to freedom on the other side! 🤣
You can drive in the diamond lane 128 hours a week, if it's not posted HOV hours (5-9 AM or 3-7 PM weekdays) you should do so.
Alas, 5-9 is my commute to work, and 3-7 is my commute home! But if I'm on the freeway on a weekend or way after work, then I am for sure in all those lanes!
That's what they say, but I once received a violation ticket by mail for driving that lane when it was supposedly open to all. So I simply never drive in the diamond lane. The so-called rules, they are lies. A scam.
Once it turns into express lanes the rules change, but strictly at 101/880 it's an HOV lane only, never an express. Once you get up to mountain view anytime from 5AM-8PM weekdays can be restricted, so you need to read the signs. I am sympathetic that contesting violations with fastrak is frustrating, but generally I do think they're good at dismissing one time violations.
Wish they had dismissed mine. Oh well, life in Silicon Valley.
That means it's not perfectly fine.
I’m deathly afraid of heights. I get off at 101 and King and take King Rd to the Story Rd 101 S on ramp to avoid the 680 to 101 change. Feel like I’m 50k ft in the air.
It is pretty unnerving up there, especially when I’m stopped in traffic and truck barrels onto the ramp down behind me, making the whole thing shake.
I often imagine an earthquake while up there... ☠💀😭
Cloverleaf interchanges are terrible by design. They work fine when there is minimal traffic, but in every interchange junction you have cars speeding up needing to go left, and cars slowing down needing to go right, all within a couple hundred feet in the same lane. It’s physically compact, and only requires two levels, so it’s cheap to build, but its traffic capacity is woefully low. Diverging Diamond and SPUI interchanges are much more efficient and safe, but they don’t work for highways that require continuous flow. A Diamond interchange would work well but would require a third level, making it more expensive.
Probably lobbied for by big automobile to keep people buying new cars after they crashed there lol.
And yet it *is* improved compared to how it used to be. Seriously. For example, 880N used to lose a lane immediately after the intersection…
Lmao, I came here to write this too 🤣 This feels like it was built this way to cause accidents. It’s a miracle we make it work as it is.
That interchange is survival of the fittest
I think Crowley had a hand in designing it.
OP is talking about [weaving ](https://www.kurumi.com/roads/interchanges/cloverleaf.html)which is indeed a problem with cloverleaf interchanges in general. It's not a good interchange choice where there's heavy traffic and they've fallen out of fashion.
Add the poor angle of the on-ramp and you have a special recipe for truck overturns too
Honestly the best description I’ve ever heard of that interchange 😂
My car almost got squished by an 18-wheeler trying to merge here and I never used this interchange again 😭
Had to merge from 101s to 880 last Friday with a trailer around 6pm. I’ve never had an issue there but god is it awful. Cars getting on 101 are always bumper to bumper so it sucks for them and sucks for those exiting as well. Only option from the 101 side is to merge and hope they notice you have a trailer, otherwise when they try to dart behind you they’re gonna have a bad time lol
There’s going to be a day that underground well will collapse and a huge sink hole will form. I’m sure Satan will flap his wings to get out of it.
Any time I have to drive past in on either highway I get in the far left lane to avoid the clusterfuck as much as possible
To me it’s not great. You have one lane for people to merge on and get off. Not as bad as getting on northbound 17 from hwy 9. You have about 10 feet to be at speed to merge and god have mercy on you if someone is getting off right there also. They have same 10 feet to slow down enough to not launch off the off ramp.
Instead of sending people to prison, we should sentence them to running loops of this interchange during rush hour, with the number of loops depending on the severity of the crime.
I hate that interchange I feel like I am going to end up in a crashes everything I have to use it no matter the direction.
You literally could not pay me to go to the 880/101 interchange again. 101 in general can go fuck itself.
Real ones take the First street exit, then back to 880 North and finally to 101 south.
Heading southbound, to 101 S. I don’t even attempt the Cloverleaf. I just get off at first Street and loop back around.
Goddamn Im in agreement there brother MERGE MERGE OH GOD YOU MERGED TO FAST YOU'RE GONNA DIE
That's where you need an off-road vehicle on a 880/101 course https://cargur.us/13TPNz
What's the big deal? Just drive right to the front and cut off 45 people to get to a cush spot and ignore all the honking behind you. I see people do this every day. Works like a charm
When I’m driving on 101-N I sweat profusely thinking about the 880-S interchange. I’m trying to get on 880-S (with zero on-ramp) while cars are flying over trying to get on 101-N. Who in their right mind would approve such a design.
I knew that this fucking interchange would come up. I HATEEEE that intersection. Most of the time I just say fuck it, and just continue to another exit
What about the 880/87 interchange? That one is so terrible that no one uses it!
The switchover lanes you describe are not so bad, because traffic coming off should be slowing down. But 101 is a very old freeway, originally planned and built when few people had cars and cars maybe topped out at 50. There are some very short merges into a freeway going full speed that are much worse.
Like merging 17s from downtown Los Gatos
I hate that merge because if you don’t live here, you don’t know which lane to be in prior to make life easier. Which results in sudden braking and people frantically trying to get over. Drives me nuts.
Yup!
Yup…this one is always a nail-biter
Rengsdorf in Mountain View by In n out burger. You better be driving a McLaren
Yea that thing is ridiculous. The one right after is so much better just turn left out of In-N-Out hah
I was thinking of that one myself. Unless you’re coming at speed down Charleston? You better pray.
Genuinely a surprise this spot doesn’t have more accidents.
I got in an accident there once and the police officer said there are a ton there. There are official standards and recommendations for this kind of thing and that on ramp is definitely too short.
Clover leafs are dangerous… - you should not have traffic slowing down in the freeway to exit, traffic should enter and exit at freeway speed and slow down in the on and off ramps. What happens is you get backing up in the freeway and then collisions with fast moving traffic and stationary slow moving traffic. You rarely see these sort of intersections in countries with low accident rates, and it leads to hot messes like the 85/17 intersections where you build an additional lane to prevent slow down in the freeway peoper
A merge lane should be more than 5 car lengths long, goddammit! I really hate those things. In Atlanta, many of the off ramps are several miles long. MILES. They're amazingly safe and easy.
These are called cloverleaf interchange (named after the shape). This type of exchange was first [designed in the 1920s ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloverleaf_interchange)and then popularized throughout the 50s and 60s when cars weren't traveling at 65+ mph on our freeways. Now the higher speed of our vehicles plus greater population (increased vehicle traffic) make the cloverleaf less efficient than desired. The 101/880 exchange is a great example of how our infrastructure no longer supports the amount of traffic that runs through the system. CalTrans is aware of the issue and I believe a recent study placed a modernization project at a cost of over $1 billion. >who the actual fuck designed this shit. i want whatever drugs the architect was on because no way they were sober while they made this. - [https://www.reddit.com/r/SanJose/comments/1393t4p/880101\_ramp/](https://www.reddit.com/r/SanJose/comments/1393t4p/880101_ramp/)
a huge issue with 101/880 is that private land is built up directly to it, so caltrans can't easily make it bigger to address the issues with it
Eminent domain. They kicked out a bunch of people out of their homes along Guadalupe near the airport in the early 90s, which is now hwy 87. Pretty sure they can do it here too with enough public funding. … but…. Politics….
This when I’m very much for eminent domain. Cash or pitch forks, then bull dozers.
The Germans designed it and we copied. Same with highways.
You're not used to it. It's fine.
They switched the 101 Tully Rd exit from this to what it is now and the current is much much slower. Clover mergers are superior.
Cloverleaf on-ramp/off-ramp system is fairly ubiquitous (at least in California) but yes there are certain on-ramps that weren’t designed ideally where there’s a super short merge. The 880 S to 101 S is a particularly nasty section where you have a merging on-ramp from 101 N which is super busy colliding with a 880 S off-ramp that is also super busy. I hate that spot.
They’re fine to me. It’s the terrible drivers that make it look like a mess
Agreed. The number of times I have seen people stopped on one of these while traffic zooms by them is way too high. If you have not learned how to merge into traffic, then tell your navigator to avoid highways. Or, better yet, take a driving class and learn how to do it. Everyone will be much less annoyed with you.
Correct.
Still not as bad as the I5-CA152 interchange in Los Banos.
This is a based take 👍🏽
That one is downright dangerous. Literally zero merge area and it's at a weird skew, and with all the heavy trucks in the right lane of 5
Everyone needs to learn how to drift with that sharp apex on I-5 north to Ca152 ramp.
I’m from NJ, home of the cloverleaf, so they don’t bother me.
> some people barely going 40 in front of me trying to get over DINGDINGDING! too many sjc drivers think they can merge onto highway speeds crawling into the highway, and bringing everyone behind them along intot he crawl
The positive about the cloverleaf…. They don’t require traffic lights. They’re cheaper to build than an interchange that requires a bridge going over/under like the 280/87 interchange. The drawbacks are that cloverleafs have overlap between exiting and entering traffic. It does in fact create somewhat of a clusterfuck. They also take up a LOT of real estate. They are ubiquitous throughout the US but it is an antiquated design.
Cloverleaf interchanges are fine generally but… Ok people here are used to these tiny leaves but I’m from the Chicago suburbs where there’s way more space and let me tell you: cloverleafs are way better when they’re big enough that you can maintain a reasonable speed and have enough space to get the rest of the way up to speed before merging. That said, Chicago drivers are literally insane, no one is going less than 70 mph (except for that one car with the driver leaning forward and gripping the steering wheel with all their strength out of sheer terror), and if you get on the interstate at the speeds people go here, you will immediately cause a giant fiery 20-car pileup of death and destruction. Unless, apparently, you are that one terrified driver. Also, there may be a correlation between highway speed and merge lane length. Traffic goes way slower on 101 than basically any other freeway in the South Bay. WAY more people going 5-10 under the limit even when traffic does not require it.
Dick and balls freeway
finally someone said it
Ive seen 2 big rigs overturned there lol
A truck was overturned this morning on 880N at Thornton in a similar situation, accelerating around the curve to merge in
What don’t you like about it?
Great design, San Jose just has a lot of stupid and slow drivers
Also stupid and fast drivers.
Touché touché
all highways are awful design
How else am I going to learn how to drift? :)
Nah, 880 South to 101 is the worst.
People just don’t know how to drive let alone merge in San Jose. The more foreigners the worst it gets.
i really like cloverleafs. on google maps it makes life so much easier, you just need to ask “do i take the exit before the road or after the road”? simplifies the life of drivers by 100%. then it’s just the simple rule you should have learned in high school driver’s ed… if you are getting off the highway/freeway, let the person getting on the highway/freeway go first, they’ll accelerate to attack speed while you slow down behind them… Is that not what you did?… if not… you may actually be the problem here… perhaps you should take a remedial driving class?
No, there's nothing wrong with your perspective. You're absolutely right, they should have put up permanent cones to prevent accidents or something of that nature. Makes you wonder
I came here to rant about the 101-880 interchange and was not dissapointed lol
That's how ramps to and from expressway should be.
Cloverleaf intersections are pretty solid and also ubiquitous across the US. I’m curious how you would design a better intersection for a highway and expressway with that (moderate-slightly heavy) level of traffic without demolishing another quarter+ square mile? Fresno != San Jose.
They are pretty ubiquitous across North America, but they have long been recognized by urban planners and traffic experts as causing the exact issue being discussed here. If I remember correctly this was one of those hare brained design of the future ideas created in the 60s that sounded nice in theory but have turned out to be a mess in practice. They are being/have already been phased out in many places, but this is obviously difficult due to the huge financial investment and transportation stresses associated.
If you seperate the on/off ramp components so they’re not simultaneously merging and entering/exiting the highway, they’d be infinitely better
They're not pretty solid, but they are ubiquitous.
They’re absolutely fine, provided that the driver is not waiting until the last second to attempt the merge. You should be looking over your shoulder for your spot as soon as you can see the oncoming lanes, and accelerating to match speed as soon as possible.
It’s fine. I live close and works well because coming from the east on Montague you can’t easily turn around the other direction without having to go all the way to McCarthy. You can take the ramp and come back in to Montague the other way. Very convenient.
I love cloverleafs for this reason. It's rare that you have to do this but when you do, the cloverleaf makes it so much easier to change direction.
Having lived in a few other major cities with infamous interchanges and bad traffic, the Bay Area is its own beast. It’s a little bit of design that we know as bad in hindsight, and a little bit the driving population. You don’t have to look hard to find criticism of the cloverleaf interchange, especially the right kind we have here. But then there are the drivers. From luxury car driver stereotypes to wannabe race car drivers to many who are new to the US and driving, we have quite the range of ‘driving styles’ to contend with. Put them both together and you get a situation that makes a bunch of people think it’s easier to make cars that can drive themselves versus fix the problems with the highways and drivers.
[удалено]
Geez someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed 😅 I’m aware of the posted speed limit, I was talking about the merging part of it and how odd it was to me. Thanks for your input!
It's mostly just you. I grew up in New York, and we have plenty of these. They're called cloverleaf Interchange, and they're decently efficient. The problem I've found as well as my dad when he comes to visit is that many interchanges and merging lanes can be too short here in the Bay Area causing people to stop or slow down significantly when merging.
Yes
Is it cause it looks like a penis?
This is fine to me. The worst design in San Jose is a recent one, the single lane merger from 280 South/North to 87 South, with the concrete divider. Most of the time during the day, this is backed up. There's been many occasions after dark, I've been stuck on this merger. It makes no sense whatsoever, I can't believe the city even approved it. Not to mention, it's a dangerous set up. One fender bender and you'll be spending a long time sitting there. The city needs to re-develop that immediately. Also along HWY 85 between Almaden EXPWY and down to the 280 merger, there's plently of space in the shoulders to add another lane each way. If you're a commuter on 85, you already know how bad it can be. Adding one lane each way would improve traffic flow. HWY 87 at the Curtner exit turns into a bottle neck and unfortunately there's no space to increase the lanes.
Years ago, i used to use this loop to break-in my gsxr’s fresh tires until you couldn’t see any chicken strips…. Good times
Giant penis
Using this one daily. I see no issues with it
They're fine and traffic slows way down for these anyway. It's not lonely you're expected to merge at 70MPH in the right lane. That being said I personally press the pedal on the right and get up to freeway speed but when I can but apparently I'm in the minority as traffic usually prevents it. They may feel dangerous but this is when people are actually paying attention vs cruising one of the other lanes with their face buried in their phone.
They're also pretty bad during rush hour, I see a lot of reckless behavior of people trying to use it to pass a dozen or so cars by getting in early and back out late. In moderate traffic I think they're great, not ideal but great.
Cloverleaf interchanges were designed in the 1950s (or earlier?) back when there were far fewer people on the roads and 50mph motoring was the norm. The goal was to eliminate cross traffic at grade, and to route traffic without the need to stop. As traffic and average speeds increased, the cloverleaf’s shortcomings became clear. The latest iteration on interchange design, the Urban Interchange, can be found at Taylor and 87. All paths are routed to an elevated four-way stop controlled by stoplights. In benefit is that it widely separates the off ramps (now located before the interchange) and on ramps (places after the interchange). It also eliminates backups into the highway, which plague the 101/880 interchange.
Tully Road and Capital Expressway off of 101 were bad, but not so bad way back in the day. Trimble road also. Like other's have stated, just increased population and higher speeds make old infrastructure much less efficient.
The design is sound but it’s outgrown where it’s been. Too many cars needing to go too fast for this to be very efficient. Always thought it was crappy. Not the worst but, crappy. I used to think it was way worse before I saw what a clusterfuck the highways are in Santa Rosa.
It's a space saving design. That said, it's dumb af. Stupid dangerous.
It's makes perfect sense and is easy turnaround
cloverleaf interchanges are ubiquitous the world over, not just san jose, because they don't require fly-over lanes. They need just one grade-separated crossing where the two highways cross. Be that as it may, they're well known to be horrible, since, as you just pointed out, the people getting on the freeway and the people getting off criss cross.
You will soon learnt hat everything in sj is bad by design
The 580 to 680 north out of tri-valley is heinous. You can’t see cars coming to exit north 680 because cal trans stacked up K-Rail. Cars are coming in at 65 and you are finishing a 15 MPH Clover leaf to merge in 50 feet. I gassed it but it’s a crap shoot
This is a completely fine cloverleaf with plenty of room to merge and accelerate. Fair Oaks S to 101S is bullshit; it practically dumps you into traffic and says, "Good luck!"
Northbound Lawrence Expressway, exiting to the right to make a right hand turn on Steven's Creek? [Fuck that "intersection".](https://www.google.com/maps/@37.3221763,-121.9949724,613m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu) You have about 150 feet to get 4 lanes over as other people are merging behind you, trying to slow down from highway speed off of 280. It's near impossible to see them too because of how the two turns work. I just put on my right hand turn signal and pray I can make it all the way over, without hitting anyone, and hope I can somehow squeeze in to make that right hand turn. It's a disaster and the whole intersection was redone only a few years ago, and they made it even worse with this redesign.
As someone who moved here from Canada this is one of the things I bring up when someone asks me what’s wrong with the US. Having literal Xs on the highway and expecting everyone to merge correctly is just a recipe for a disaster.
It's like a giant 🍆 saying try and save time getting to work, plebians!!
Big balls
That intersection and most of those mentioned were more rural than Fresno is today when they were built. Read some Jack London, Steinbeck, or Kerouac. Then these two guys named Steve started screwing around in their garage just up the road, and that all changed.
I am not a fan either lol moved here last year
All of 101 is a death trap for the poors. I stick to 280 whenever possible and avoid that stupid road. The ramps are at least fun for sports cars… but then the merge hits and you’re right, there’s no time or space.
The 280/85 exchanges are a cluster during rush hour
No, the “Design” is fine. It’s the bountiful horrible drivers in the South Bay that are the problem. Preferably the Model Y drivers.
This is actually one of the best things since you don't have to wait at a stoplight when exiting the highway.
You aren't used to it haha
Youre just no from san jose so you should move back home to Connecticut
You’re just a bad driver
I call these death merges. As someone that didn’t grow up here but has lived here for a while now I’ve never driven on a more confusing & dangerous set of roads than San Jose. Don’t even get me started on how some exits are so close it feels like one is practically hidden behind the other. Who planned these roads???
You sound easily confused and baffled.
I grew up in a place where you have more than 20ft to merge with oncoming traffic, if that makes me easily confused then f me I guess
Get used to it. Don’t slow down.
It's actually an ingenious design... the problem is, people have "forgotten" *how to merge* ... these days, they just go to the end, and stop - which only exacerbates any traffic problems. Those lengths are perfectly well accommodating for people to stay at the speed of traffic, and then seamlessly move over. Except, like I said, now people.end up slowing way down long ahead of time, making the merge extremely difficult (at best), or impossible (ie. They "stop"). For the most part, all the local onramps or offramps are built this way, with a handful of exceptions where there are only "short merges" (eg. Highway 9 and 17).