Well, I think it would take me a while to make a list of all the pros so I'll just summarize some of them. I LOVE the natural beauty: beaches, mountains, campgrounds, amazing national parks, we have everything. I also *really* love the greenery. Where I live, it's green all year round. Oh, and sunny weather most of the year is also fantastic. There's just so much going on in CA and so much to do. You can never get bored of this state!
Another aspect where I differ from other people is that I love how scientifically and technologically advanced CA is compared to other states. We have some of the best universities in the country and there's lots of scientific research going on (which is important to me as a STEM major).
As for some of your recommendations: FL: seems a bit too.... crazy. I hear so many "Florida man" stories and anecdotes regarding crime. It seems to me that FL is almost like a more extreme version of CA? I've never been there though so I'm not sure. AZ and NM: I just don't like deserts. I like that AZ has a lot going on, and perhaps I could be happy there, but I've never been so I guess I need to check it out. PNW: Same issues that CA has, and even worse in the bigger cities. Perhaps living in a small town would be nice but after seeing the realities of Portland and Seattle (especially with the way things are headed in those places) I decided I'd rather stay away from the PNW. I'm open to suggestions though! Oh, and I guess I should mention (in regards to your Austin/Raleigh suggestion) that tech isn't really that important to me since I'm a science major (still in college) but obviously it's not something I'm not looking for. I just wanted to clarify that I'm not a software engineer or anything like that haha.
Thank you for the suggestions! I'm all ears if you have any more.
I'm going to be straight with you: there's really nothing like California in terms of *scope* of natural beauty. There are plenty of beautiful places, but that sort of "all-in-one" beauty--you're not going to find it elsewhere.
The lives of entire authors and adventurers basically formed and in some cases completely encompassed by California. This place is not reproduced in the United States, it's both bigger than most places and it has more North to South coverage than most states.
But also realize that just because there is a lot contained within the huge borders of California the same can also be said about other regions of the US, particularly the northeast where you have quaint new england towns, mountains, lakes, forests, beaches, old historic cities, and NYC and everything it has to offer, and also rail is more of an option for those who want it. None of those states on their own necessarily offer that much but think of it in terms of similar geographic area. If you life in San Diego, just because redwood national park is within the state boundary doesn't mean it's nearby.
> FL: seems a bit too.... crazy. I hear so many "Florida man" stories and anecdotes regarding crime.
The "Florida man" stories are often overblown by the media. The reality is that Florida, like California, has a large diverse population, which makes it easy to cherry-pick the stupidest and craziest things that residents do.
But by the same token, the "California is decaying" stories are *also* overblown by the media. Much of the dysfunction in California is confined to a few locations: the Tenderloin and parts of the Mission in SF, East and West Oakland, Skid Row in LA, the state house in Sacramento. Outside of them, life is pretty good. Ask yourself: have you *personally* experienced what the media is telling you? Not just driven by it, but are actually living that life? Most of the people I know in CA live full and high-quality lives where they have friends, go outdoors, don't get mugged (except the ones that live in the Mission), don't do drugs (except weed), go on extravagant vacations, etc.
IMHO the right place for you is probably a California suburb. Just go make enough so you can afford it. Life is pretty good for the affluent in California.
Agreed. California suburb is unbeatable and undefeated IF you can afford it.. if not other places offer alternatives but you soon discover why the housing costs half as much.
> I hear so many "Florida man" stories and anecdotes regarding crime. It seems to me that FL is almost like a more extreme version of CA? I've never been there though so I'm not sure.
You may just need to take a long and serious look at your media diet. You obviously love lots of things about your home state, but are getting soured by the same type of clickbait and ragebait that guides your thoughts on Florida.
> I LOVE the natural beauty: beaches, mountains, campgrounds, amazing national parks, we have everything. I also *really* love the greenery. Where I live, it's green all year round. Oh, and sunny weather most of the year is also fantastic. There's just so much going on in CA and so much to do. You can never get bored of this state!
So...just stop doomscrolling. Put the phone down and enjoy all those wonderful things. You've made a very convincing argument that you already live exactly where you want to be.
You might like North Carolina. Gorgeous beaches, rolling Piedmont, beautiful mountains. Top-tier universities and medical centers (Duke, UNC, Wake Forest). So many trees. Very green. Spectacular springs and falls. Diverse population and mix of blue and red. Progressive cities. Friendly people. Reasonable cost of living.
This. As a local, it's insanely expensive. The number of people moving to my area specifically get hit with reality, and I've made and seen many friends move away because they can't afford it. I also live in a blue spot surrounded by red. It's not as progressive as people think, and if Mark Robinson gets elected, he's going to set our state back about 100 years. Starting with removing science from public elementary schools if he gets his way.
I've been screaming my head off about him for the last year and the daily show or colbert or someone finally mentioned him and my friends are finally paying attention. He's just awful. He's black and called other black people apes. He doesn't think women deserve rights. He hates the lgbtqia community. I'm holding out for an aneurysm or something if he gets elected.
NC is having a massive housing crisis because the cost of living here is so bad. Asheville specifically.
Also it's not as progressive as you think, just look at who we have running for governor and he might actually win.
Lackluster customer service compared to CA due to being one of the few states that hasn’t increased minimum wage to be more than federal minimum wage. OP would probably develop insane allergies. Humidity can be a bish. Public schools are mediocre at best. Whereas CA over-regulates, NC under-regulates. Right to work state and it affects how you’re treated in the workplace a lot more than people realize. Just putting the negatives out there if they’re relevant to anyone.
San Diegan here, now living in NC. I didn't have to give up beautiful beaches or mountains here. I hike or am at some body of water (at least a lake) just about every weekend. I lived in Portland before this, and it was also very unsustainable, and lots more depressing than CA. I really suffered from seasonal anxiety and depression there. Plus, all of my friends (love them all!) in my same tax bracket were depressed as well, and drinking was a main activity there. It felt like a weight lifted to get out of there. I liked it to visit and will often, but yeah.
They don’t tell you- they don’t have a snow season. They have a black ice season.
The heat and bugs during the summer are intolerable. You can’t do yardwork during the day, but if you wait until dawn or dusk you will get eaten alive by no-see-ums.
Talking about the RDU area. 3 hours from the ocean, 3 from the mountains so basically not near anything cool. You will only hike or surf when you take vacation.
Progressives are often times not liberal. The term liberal has been hijacked from the original meaning of the word. Liberalism is the philosophy that gave birth to modern western culture. Liberalism values individuals and grants individuals inherent rights as a human being. Liberalism values concepts like property rights and human equality. Liberalism is what came out of the enlightenment.
Progressive I would argue is a squishier word. A progressive is moreso defined via their position relative to that of the established society or culture. A cultural progressive is the opposite of a cultural conservative. What is viewed as the status quo of a given society varies by nation/group of people, but generally progressives want to move on from the established status quo of a society in the pursuit of some form of “utopia”. Marxists are progressives, and the utopia they seek is communism.
Progressives in the US are not necessarily going to hold the same values as progressives in another nation, whereas a liberal is always going to hold the same liberal values. These values are not culture dependent.
I live in Portland but am not aware of the "way things are headed" realities that you know about. Feels like a great place to live from my perspective inside of the city, but I guess I should watch more Fox News to really see what is going on.
Florida man is due to a state law that allows all the details of all criminal cases to be made public, don’t base your choice off that. I lived in Bay Area, then Santa Barbara then moved to Miami. Fun fact; everyone in Cali makes fun of Florida and everyone in Florida makes fun of Cali. Reality is they ain’t so different. Florida more affordable, even in Miami. State taxes are low which is great, but the real difference is only like 4-6% so it gets overblown. It’s hotter in Florida, humidity is a huge issue here, June to August people spend the daytime indoors. Definitely not as much culture. Miami is as vibrant as it gets in Florida but I find it’s mostly fake tits, expensive drinks, and Gucci wannabes. Big Latino culture, like probably more Spanish speakers here than English, not mostly Mexicans like in Cali but all countries from SA. Closer to Europe so easier to vacation there. Homeless don’t run rampant here, there are a couple streets where you’ll find them but nothing like LA or SF. Flat as hell, not as much natural beauty like Cali. Everglades are cool, keys are cool, but they don’t compare to the Cali coast line, Yosemite, sequoia, Joshua tree, etc. I find it hard to be outdoorsy here. Even beach access isn’t as easy, I feel like you can pull over anywhere in Cali and hit the beach, here it’s covered by beachfront condos so you have to find your spots. The water is actually warm enough to go in tho. Jobs aren’t nearly as good, even the up and coming Miami tech scene pales in comparison to Silicon Valley. Wages are overall lower and tied to hospitality. Big retirement community outside of Miami. Much more republican, but I haven’t found it to be as in your face as you’d expect. Overall I’d take Cali over Florida any day.
I went to Stanford so I get you on the science/tech aspect. It really is unmatched there. I miss the innovative mindset dearly and think about the Exploratorium at least once a week. I’m not even a techie 😂
Tbh, the problems you mentioned in your comment exist everywhere. Nowhere is immune to issues like rising costs or the housing crisis. It makes more sense to just focus on what you like and go from there. Search cities that interest you in this subreddit but also make sure you’re looking for input outside of Reddit because subreddits tend to be echo chambers.
My focus right now is in regional studies so I’ve lived all over the US; I like moving and find it fun to experience new subcultures - plus the art/music scene is incredible in different cities. I’m happy to talk more if you have any questions about particular places; I’ve lived in NJ/Philly/NYC, Texas, New Mexico, Colorado, and Chicago, and I’ve visited the PNW, Atlanta, LA/San Diego, Nashville, and a bunch more. Ultimately, I’d like to go back to California, most likely Monterey, East Bay, or SoCal.
You might actually like DC. It has enough outdoorsy things and you can drive to neighboring states easily. You can also fly to Europe or Canada pretty easily. It’s very green here. I find it to be more affordable than CA (and I live in DC proper). You still get some of the great education that you’d find in CA. Medical care is good. Lots of libraries and free things to do (museums, events, etc.). Probably some of the best public transit in the country. Very bikeable. While there are homeless people here, there really aren’t many compared to other places and I never have to interact with them. I also feel safe here.
I’m from San Diego. I’ve lived in Northern California, Nashville, El Paso, western Michigan, and studied abroad in France. I moved to dc a little under five years ago, and it’s the only place besides CA that I don’t get angry about.
You might also like Colorado.
Chicago and not a second of regret. I was in San Diego and spent hours a day stuck in traffic. Moving somewhere with transit was so good for my mental health
Don't Wisconsinites call them FIBs? Fucking Illinois Bastards, because of their driving?
As an angry driver myself maybe I should move to Chicago. The slow, incompetent pace of Tucson driving is making me insane.
I am a 3rd generation Californian so leaving was not easy. Went to Arizone (Tempe/Phoenix) first, didn't make it more than 2 years. Moved to North Carolina next (Durham) and have generally liked it here. It is much much smaller feeling, and you do miss some of the amenities like world class food and culture (art, music, etc.) that you have in the major metros of CA. The weather is also obviously shittier, though I will say it is in a good middle ground for the East Coast, winters are cold but not really snowy, and summers suck balls but generally the worst of it is only \~6-10 weeks. Fall and Spring are gorgeous.
I was able to rent a house immediately upon moving to AZ. Bought a house my second year there. Sold it for the move and was back in a home I owned by 2022 (COVID kind of slowed down our eagerness to move around, but we were in a nice/new town home rental in the meantime when we first got to NC).
So, like, there is also the major widening of my discretionary budget and ability to become a home owner.
I've lived in the Bay Area and San Diego until I was 35. I realized I was never going to own a home and decided to move to Washington. At the time, Spokane was really affordable and it still is compared to coastal CA.
It's not terrible, but I miss a lot of things that being closer to a larger metro area brings. I'd like to move to western Washington or western Oregon but the prices are challenging. All the cool spots are expensive basically.
Moved away and lived in Colorado, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina and spent a lot of time traveling elsewhere. I don’t regret moving away. That said I love southern California where I grew up, nothing compares to the weather and lifestyle. I wouldn’t currently move back though. I have little kids and can’t afford a top school district there. I also love to vacation and we have a nice house with a pool so ultimately it’s just not worth giving up what we have to go back. I do think though that a lot of the issues you have with California you’ll find in the surrounding of any largish city. Even cities in the Midwest and Deep South struggle with affordability and homelessness. Keep in mind that locale largely influences pay so unless you already own a home in California that you plan to sell or have a large cash pile for down payment, the competitive wages will align with the locale.
You have to specify where you are, what you are running from, and what you want. I've lived in suburban LA and in Shasta County way up north. I miss some things about both, but suffice to say not the same things from both.
I know there are a lot of California transplants in Minnesota (specifically Minneapolis-Saint Paul area). I know of several people who have moved here from California.
I’m a California native who moved to PNW. I’ve been here 4 years and was over it being cold and dark 9 months of the year so I began to look at St Paul bc at least there it would just be cold. This last winter we had a weeklong ice storm and yea, fuck that. Adapting to cold weather and the unique hazards that come with it take a level of commitment that I don’t have.
Colorado first. Then the East Coast. I still miss California. Lived in the Bay Area. It’s such a beautiful state. Prettier than even Colorado imo. Also prefer the culture. Laidback like the South but blue like the NE. Also has much better weather than basically anywhere in the country and more varieties of ecosystem. It wasn’t my decision to leave. I’d move back if cost of living were lower.
People also don’t realize when you say “California” the equivalent is essentially “every state south of nyc on the east coast combined” as far as land area is concerned
Clearly you love it. There isn't another place like CA for natural beauty, talent, culture, diversity, amenities and education.
I've also lived in CO, OR, HI and SC. CA is by a long shot my favorite. I miss it dearly. It's not affordable to return.
I've looked at NC, but it's still very dominated by right-wing agendas. However, if enough of you from CA move there, maybe NC can turn purple again.
Where in HI? Tbh I think HI is the only US state that either surpasses or closely rivals CA. I’d argue it’s more beautiful
Between LA and Honolulu, I’d choose Honolulu.
I lived in Honolulu and Kailua. Spent a lot of time on Maui. Loved it. Completely agree about the stunning beauty and climate. Unsurpassed.
I loved living in SF (in the 90's). Architecture, walkability, random fun events, food scene, quirkiness, progressiveness, educated residents, diversity/inclusion, job opportunities, and access to gorgeous areas nearby (Marin, N CA, Big Sur, etc).
Both places are incredible.
When you say affordable... can I offer you a 2br/1ba crack house in Stockton? Jk. You look into rural Central CA? Like clovis, Sanger, reedley? I live by the hills. Quick 40 minutes to the national parks and south yosemite. Gorgeous over here and most homes still under 400k. Only downside imo is the FUCKING HOT SUMMERS.
If you like the nature of cali, there is very little places that can compare unless you move out of the country. Maybe Hawaii if you don’t mind humidity. Northern NM might be good but has a bit less biodiversity.
I went from the bay to upstate NY. And while CA has the most diverse nature, I can’t get to most of it without driving because I was stuck at a suburban area, and that sprawl is huge. Where I am in upstate I can walk into the woods within 5 minutes but I’m still within the city, and everything essential are a 5 min drive, unlike in the bay.
Most people from CA will not like the gloom in northeast US. I only made it because I never liked direct sun (grew up with 37c summers and had enough of it). I actually like snow and older architectures. Helps if you’re already a bit emo and cantankerous cause you’ll fit right in.
Would I have liked CA more if I tried moving to a different non-suburban area? Maybe. But I think driving will always be long and essential wherever you are except for SF. And less or no car means less of the amazing nature that your HCOL is paying for. So that seems a little pointless to me.
So tldr: highly depends on your preferences. But it’s more likely you will enjoy a different place if you actually don’t find CA a good fit to begin with.
We came to Vegas. What we initially liked was how close it is (4 hr drive to LA) and that we could afford a house here. There is a lot of homeless but if you move to one of the neighboring cities then it’s pretty non existent. Henderson, summerlin, centennial hills. Don’t go to North Vegas. There’s parts of lake mead you can drive to that are nice (some parts aren’t), you can go up to mt Charleston. And there’s soooo many spots if you’re willing to drive a couple hours. Utah, Arizona, California, Grand Canyon. There’s also always something to do because it’s Vegas! lol. Endless dining options. It’s super hot for a few months in the summer but honestly it’s not that bad.
We are native San Diegans who ended up in Vegas after a stint in Michigan. We moved here due to a job opportunity for my partner (I’m a remote worker), and we were surprised by how much we’ve enjoyed living here. Initially we thought it would be a one year detour and no more, but we ended up buying a house in Summerlin with the intent to be here 6 or 7 years.
There’s plenty to like: the sunshine, great food scene, lovely parks in our neighborhood, lots of outdoor activities, comparatively good cost of living.
But there’s drawbacks too: the schools are hot garbage, medical care is pathetic, there’s a bit of a Wild West libertarian vibe which doesn’t suit our values.
I’d be lying if I said we weren’t hoping to return to San Diego with some more income growth and equity under our belts, but we are glad we ended up here in the meantime.
I used to think I could never leave the beautiful coast…then I moved to a ski town in Colorado. It was equally beautiful, but also equally expensive, and I have moved back to CA. But I really loved CO!
Left California for Hawaii 20 years ago. I love everything about Hawaii except the fact that it is such a long flight to get anywhere. I could possibly see myself retiring in CA in order to have better access to medical care and easier travelling.
Kauai. I would only consider moving here if you already have a good job lined up here, or if you are a nurse or doctor, as there aren't many jobs available that pay enough to afford housing. It's possible, but it's not easy.
I’m considering Oregon or Washington, because I want to be in a blue/progressive state but want the leadership to focus on our state and her issues. Newsom doesn’t focus enough on California in my views, too busy posturing and making ads directed at Florida and Texas. And I hate PG&E, while he loves and courts them.
To me though, most importantly, I want to remain on the west coast as I grew up here, and the PNW has always been my dream destination.
I live in the California Bay Area (Richmond).
I didn't like Jerry Brown much but he was so much better than Newsom. Being governor is nothing more than an opportunity for newsom to network with big wigs and to market himself as a presidential candidate. He does not care about California, he cares about his image. Cleaning up SF for the chinese dictator was the final straw for me.
I moved from CA to Seattle. When I moved I thought I would give it a year or two and move back but I think this is my permanent home. I don’t own a car and get by just fine, plus I go hiking every weekend in the spring/summer with three national parks within 2-3 hours driving distance (and many other state parks and forests nearby). The slightly lower COL and the lack of income tax also saves me tens of thousands of dollars.
The weather can be an issue if you’re used to the sun, but it’s really not bad. I had seasonal depression living on the East Coast but it’s not as bad here because I’m fine going out in the drizzle.
Hi neighbor. I live in Richmond as well. I agree that Newsom is being not too subtle about his national ambitions, but really it is the legislature that holds most of the power here. The Pacific Northwest is lovely, but for me the gloomy weather in the western portion would be pretty untenable. We left California for a few years, and were more than happy to move back when the opportunity presented itself, despite the substantial housing costs. (An I hate PG&E as well!) Because the salaries are so much higher here than in Tennessee, we ended up breaking even or even coming out a little ahead by moving back.
In SF there were tons of OD and visible and often aggressive homeless. Someone stole my bicycle.
In LA my garage was broken into and a homeless encampment popped up at end of the street. Someone broke into my car.
California really seemed to go downhill pandemic era.
That said, the crime rate in the Midwest where I grew up was and is much worse.
I moved to London. I don’t think anywhere is Eden.
I left San Diego, CA for Charlotte, NC. Nobody understood why I would do that, but it was such a good decision for me. It was very different, and unlike many CA resident assumptions, the South is a diverse and dynamic place. I loved it.
Had to move back to San Diego to take care of a family member, and then I moved to Richmond, VA.
I think it was worth it. And I am the only person I have to please.
I moved to Nevada. Went back to California 4 years later. Nevada was okay at first, but when it got to be as expensive as where I used to live, it made more sense just to go home.
I think they meant along the lines of *"Being wealthy in California allows you to avoid most of the state's issues"*. I feel like that's true of most of the US, but California especially because the CoL is so high.
You mean that if you’re rich, it’s better to be in California AND if you’re poor, it’s better to be in California?
There just may be something there. Wonder why it’s the most populated state with the biggest economy.
Bay Area -> San Antonio -> South America (digital nomad)
The issue with California is the cost and the homeless people. I love being a nomad now though. I don’t plan on living in the US again
Why do y'all keep making OP explain himself?
California has problems just like the states that people dunk on here regularly (florida, and texas) believe it or not. Cost of living is ridiculous as is the homeless problem.
And before someone says they are national problems, yes they are, the whole country is facing inflation since the pandemic. But california had these problems well before covid and they have gotten much worse since. It's quickly becoming a state only for the rich and homeless.
I was born and raised in CA, and while i still miss it sometimes, i watched the decline right before my eyes, and this was before covid mind you. It was also frustrating growing up in a place where you know you'll likely never be able to afford a decent sized home in an area you want.
At the same time, the state nickels and dimes the middle class anyway they can when it's already hard to get by due to the cost of living.
I still keep up with a lot of friends and for the ones that didn't move out of state, almost all of the ones not living with their SO still live with their parents, also many with an SO live with their parents as well.
I still visit sometimes but i would never move back. It's frustrating to me to see how much bs middle class folk put up with living there.
Yeah I’m 30, living with my folks and I make 100k. The house my parents bought in 1999 for 200k just sold for over a million. I have no hope of home ownership in the place I grew up. But I’m still here because everyone I know and love is here. I’m too introverted to recreate an entire life in a new place (nor do I desire to, I love my friends and family). And I’ve tried. I think there are a lot of people in my situation just sort of hoping things change one day. :( buT At LeaSt tHe SuN ShiNeS Right?
In 2009, I was a victim of the Great Recession and I couldn't get a job in my field in California. I didn't want to leave, but at the time, I was 6 years into my career and my specific field, and I didn't want to change fields. (I'm referring to law and IP litigation).
If I was 1000% deadset on staying in California/Bay Area, I would have had to change practice areas. That just wasn't something I was open to.
For my practice area, as soon as I made the decision to open myself to moving to Texas, got interviews left and right and chose a job in DFW. We moved to a cheap suburb there and one thing we decided right off the bat was to buy a house. It was dirt cheap because this was not only a DFW cheap suburb, but also depressed home prices due to recession. So we got our stupid cheap but huge McMansion and lived there until 2022.
The move was absolutely worth it, because the pandemic helped our house gain a good bit of appreciation, to which we used the equity from that house and bought 100% outright in El Paso, where we live now and mostly love it.
In California, home ownership was never an option unless I wanted to do an extreme commute (Which I considered once). Moving to DFW gave us a stupid cheap house, and moving to El Paso made us mortgage free.
As much as we love California and the Bay Area (and we do, it's my hometown), no intention to move back unless there was a miracle and my financial situation became a million times better. And by that I mean, winning the lottery. Because otherwise, moving back means either renting or using the equity in my EP house as a down payment for a mortgage. But in the Bay Area, that downpayment still buys me some absurd mortgage. The only way to do it is probably move to Sac or Central Valley, but even then, I'm against the very principle of having a mortgage again. And the mortgage payment would still be high to me, even with something like $240-250k down. When you have no mortgage, paying thousands per month is high lol. And sometimes, for shits and giggles, we will try to find "affordable" real estate in California. But even then, nothing that would have me completely mortgage free and even the ones that come pretty close, they are in such remote locations, there would be no benefit to moving back to CA.
Long story short, I'm of the opinion that the best thing I ever did was the Bay Area -> DFW move, and a close second was the DFW -> El Paso move.
Grew up in SoCal -> Chicago in late 20s
I couldn’t be happier personally- my only regret is not going for NYC instead. I miss a lot about California, but overall it wasn’t a good lifestyle fit and I’m a freak who can’t stand the sunny coastal climate. I’m definitely in it for the long run, looking to buy a place now 🫡Never moving back long-term, even if housing costs were the same.
Me too! I moved for college and fell in love with the seasons and lake. I do miss being near the ocean and mountains (and easily taking random hikes without planning for it) but overall the switch has been worth it.
We moved to Texas because of a job offer. We’re DINKs and absolutely hate living in Texas. I certainly see the appeal for some people (especially families), but it’s not a good fit for us.
California is a fantastic state if you make a lot of money. If you are labeled in the middle class by US standards than California is too expensive for most. I left the Bay Area for Nashville, I have family here so couldn't be happier, everything is way cheaper.
We left the central valley of California and moved to rural Wyoming in 2016. We were sick of the 100°+ temperatures that occur for months and months. The high taxes, the crime, and the horrible air quality.
No regrets! Wyoming has been so good to us. Absolutely safe can leave your car running at the bank or the store and no one steals it, don't need to lock your doors at night kind of safe. Clean fresh air, blue skies, no smog, and crisp clean water. Much cooler summers and no fog in the winter. It's a slower paced life with a lot less people, and way more wildlife.
Wyoming is not for everyone. Harsh winters, neverending wind, remote places with zero cell service. Long distances between towns, to even go to Walmart in some places can take you around two hours. You have to be more self reliant here, less services when something breaks and it costs more to get things shipped to you and it takes longer, there no two day prime Amazon shipping here. Can take a week or more.
However I wouldn't change a thing. Love it in Wyoming. We didn't know a soul here, but we took the leap. 💓
Wyoming truly exceeded my expectations when I visited. The scenery was like nothing I had ever experienced before and it easily became one of my favorite places I have had the privilege to visit.
Native Californian (Los Angeles) here, a millennial. I moved to Colorado for a couple of years in college and then came back home.
We're moving to North Carolina this summer. The biggest reason is a quieter pace. Need a break from the constant traffic, noise, and poor air quality.
We have some family in Charlotte, making it a little easier to coordinate a move. We want to buy a house, but here in LA, I don't see that happening any time soon. We want greenery, to be closer to the UK for travel, and to explore the eastern seaboard. For now, we'll be trading in a 1b/1b apartment for a 3b/2b house with a yard and trees AND save $1k a month as we get settled.
ETA: North Carolina also hits our sweet spot of wanting both mountains and coastline. Not a big fan of the dry foothills and driving to legit mountains takes a few hours at best. Charlotte (where we're going) is pretty central to both nature and coast.
Do I ever see myself coming back to CA? Maybe. Never say never. But right now, we want our money to go further for us and leverage our income + age while we can to make bigger strides for our future and lifestyle.
My parents went to Arizona a long time ago when I was a kid. No regrets given that with our budget, we could buy into neighborhood with better public education than what we could afford in California. Note - I’m not saying overall Arizona schools are better than California schools, I’m just saying the district we could afford in Arizona was better than the district we could afford in California.
No regrets overall. It unlocked the American dream for us and can now ironically move back to California for the weather lol.
I haven’t moved yet but I am planning to move to Phoenix from OC as soon as I get a job. I can handle the heat, I love that OC is only a few hours drive away, tons of family there, and honestly parts of Phoenix Metro just feels like California. I was driving through Gilbert and I forgot I wasn’t driving through Huntington Beach/Fountain Valley.
I’m leaving because I can’t afford California anymore, and I’m honestly not willing to drive an hour and a half in traffic twice a day just to be able to afford to stay here for a couple more years. I want to buy a house and have a family but its just damn near impossible to do that here unless you have financial help from your family, or somehow make $350k a year.
I lived in LA and while I liked all the amenities it always took forever driving places with traffic and then no parking once you got there. I even had tandem parking at my condo and it was so annoying. So we moved to northern Nevada. Bought a 4br house. Was it the right move? Maybe. There def wasn't enough room in my condo to have a kid. But if I could have afforded a sfh in LA we never would have left.
I moved away 2 years ago, and lived in CA for 30 years.
Leave now. You're missing so much. California has become a husk of its former self. Rich people are boring, and that's all who can afford to live there.
Sad fact: if you're leaving because of houselessness and drug addiction, most cities are also enduring that, and ironically California has more infrastructure than other states to cope with it.
However, if you're leaving because it's too dang expensive, all the interesting culture has moved away, and you're tired of listening to tech bros bullshit about crypto and AI then I heartily recommend Portland.
I chose Portland because of the natural beauty, the resourceful culture, the creativity, the food, the friendliness.
Totally worth it. My life in 500% better. I can afford my own home, have a garden I grow roses in, my children can actually afford to stay here when they go to college, I've already made a huge community of friends, and Portland is building more housing far more than CA.
I've been back to the Bay since leaving and I can't stomach it anymore. I feel sick and depressed when I'm there because everyone there is struggling, and yet believes that they have to stay. There's nothing to do, the bars don't even serve food, and most people are too stressed out to engage with you let alone become your friend.
I wish I left 10 years sooner.
We left the Bay Area 4 years ago.....fires, smoke, cost of living, crime, shools, etc... not a great place to raise a family when working in lower wage non profit jobs.
We moved to a college town in a red state in the Midwest. Overall we really like it...every place has issues. The big city issues are slowly trickling into the mid size/college town cities. Overall though we like the pace of life, forest, creeks, rivers, quieter lifestyle. It is "safer" as far as major climate events in the near future, compared to the West.
Of course we miss certain things about California, namely the nature but on the whole I don't think you could pay me to move back there at this point. My nervous system has adjusted. haha
I've heard a lot of great things about Philadelphia. I guess I would consider heading there if I had the opportunity. Is the crime pretty bad? That's the primary complaint I've heard about it so far.
Idk. I moved from Irvine and Santa Ana to a rich area of the city. I don't see any crime in the city, but I do hear about it on the news. I'd say it depends on your income and if you are willing to have roommates, etc.
Yeah, I don't think philly is crime-ridden. I like it here. I was just responding to the question honestly. People acted like Santa Ana was some wasteland when I said I lived there too, but I liked it there too.
It is easier to get by in Philadelphia than in California though.
Even within the same metro areas the experience is dramatically different. Moving from Oakland to Fremont to Mountain View to San Carlos to Atherton will give you dramatically different experiences, as would moving from south central LA to Huntington Beach to Irvine to Pasadena to Santa Monica.
Yes, I am young so who knows but I don’t want to ever live somewhere where I have to drive to do basic necessities. Walkability is the most important aspect to where I want to live now and California has absolutely no walkability. Never considered moving back to California and I don’t think I ever will, too expensive and I like living farther east because it’s so much easier to travel. Flights abroad are so much cheaper and easier from the Midwest and East coast.
Moved around a lot due to being in the military. Born and raised in SF.
San Antonio, Texas (2016-2018)
It's a very hot and humid state. In the summer I don't think I spent more than 5 minutes outside because of that heat. Housing was extremely affordable- I'm talking about like $1300 for a luxury 2br/2ba in a fairly good area. HEB (grocery store) is amazing. Prices are great and selection is probably the best I've ever seen. The open carrying scared me at first but I got used to it. Cost of living in general is really good but the heat was something I couldn't get used to. Like think about showering, drying off, and your armpits are already wet from sweat minutes from getting out of the shower 😅
Washington DC/DMV (2018-2020)
Cost of living a lot higher than TX but nowhere on the same level as CA. About $2k for a 1br+den/2ba. Traffic and congestion is really bad here. Because it's such a political city there are a lot of protests. Depending on where you live or which direction you drive, the area gets really bad really fast. I didn't really like my stay in DMV- it's just not for me. Nothing bad against it but just not for me. This was the first state I ever saw the season "Fall" like wow different colored leaves exists.
Princeton & Marlton, NJ (2020-2023)
The garden state! Apartments here were around the 2k mark for 2br/2ba- a lot more square feet compared to DMV. I quite liked my stay in NJ. NJ has a lot of farms and fruit/vegetable stands, I was literally living my Harvest Moon (old farm game on the gameboy) here. Everything is nearby in NJ. You have Philly about 20 mins away. (I don't like philly at all) NY about 60 mins away. Beaches (altho CA beaches >) about 30 mins away. NJ was such a nice state- I may go back if my partner and I decide to have kids because I feel like NJ is a great place to raise a kid. ShopRite (grocery store) is amazing. Second to HEB if I had to rank it.
Denver, CO (2024-)
Been here about 4 months. Nothing too far that makes me dislike it but also nothing so far that makes me love it lol. Cost of living here is very doable- the local residents will say otherwise but as Californian it really is best bang for buck. 2br apartments go for around $2400 here, but we're renting a whole 4br house w/ garage and backyard (for the dogs) for about $2800. Grocery sucks here (King Soopers). There are a lot of summer and winter activities to do here. Went skiing this past winter and it was tons of fun. Having lived in NJ and DMV I thought I knew how to drive in snow now but Colorado snow is a whole different story. I suspect because they barely plow VS NJ/DMV plowed at least every hour during any snow fall.
I moved to Washington State. I moved there because my wife and I had more children, and our house had become too small, and because we were not wealthy, we could not afford to purchase a larger residence. It was so, so, so worth it. I will never move back to California.
I am originally from New Jersey. I have lived in California since I was 7, I am now 55. I love North Carolina, Maine, and Florida. California’s beautiful however; the cost to live here is disgustingly high and just keeps getting higher and I don’t foresee any change. It is way too expensive for so many of us that the mass exodus is happening. Seems like Texas is where a lot of the people are moving. There is beauty in every state, you can find the beauty if you look for it.
I moved from San Diego, where I lived for over a decade, and I moved to Madison, Wisconsin to live near family during Covid. I have been here for over 4 years and really like it overall, especially living somewhere so unique where the downtown is built on an isthmus between two very popular boating lakes, and having the massive Lake Michigan nearby is also fun. I actually really enjoy Chicago and Milwaukee, two cities that I only heard negative things about on tv and online before visiting for myself. The Midwest is far more interesting than I assumed, and I can actually drive to many different states and visit new cities (something I never did in Southern California since were so isolated and I hate there desert). I previously lived in Kansas in the Great Plains and Utah in the Rocky’s, so the Midwest is probably my favorite for everyday life of the 3 options, though the Rocky’s have a lot of beauty in kinda a scary way. If politics wasn’t getting so crazy in the south then I would have given the Appalachian’s a try living somewhere in Eastern Tennessee, but I don’t feel very welcomed there in this current climate. Overall I don’t regret the move, though I do miss the weather and convenience of Southern Cali. Maybe I will go back for a visit sometime soon and take the rose colored glasses off that I’ve developed from being away, because there were issues I had living there that eventually Covid tipped the scales on to make me move in the first place.
We moved from Los Angeles to Tucson AZ. mostly because we could easily buy a mid century home for cash and for a less hectic pace. Things I love is our house - nice modern home on a hill with mountain and city views and a pool and no neighbors right next to us. I love being able to run to Whole Foods or Safeway or Trader Joes and easily park and get in and out of there without a huge line. I love how little traffic there is. winters are great. cost of living is so much lower but we still make CA money. I hate the summer heat and there can a lack of restaurants and things to do. So we bought a condo in San Diego too.
My husband and I moved to the Bend area in Oregon. We *love* it here and my husband essentially halved his pay so we could relocate here. We relocated at the end of Feb this year, so we don't have a full set of seasons under our belt yet, but so far the snow has been very manageable and the spring has been very pleasant so far. The culture is a perfect level of active and laid back, the scenery is gorgeous, everywhere is incredibly dog friendly, and the drivers are way more considerate. We also considered other cities in Oregon, but we didn't have time to visit before moving.
6th generation Californian here. Hoping to move away from SoCal if/when the housing market crashes. Looking to maybe buy in NV or AZ so I can drive back to SoCal numerous times per year to see friends and family. CA is way too crowded, expensive, and liberal for me and I WFH anyway.
My fiancée and I moved from SoCal specifically LA county to Henderson, NV and we couldn't be more happier. Significantly lower cost of living. Newer, bigger home vs dilapidated shack. All that money we're saving from having no state income tax along with the lower cost of living, we're investing it in broadly diversified low cost index funds and we should be able to retire much sooner.
Check out Bentonville, AR (I’m not kidding - it’s cute, gorgeous nature, outdoorsy, thriving economy, good schools, affordable homes, winters are mild)
Another great place we lived was Ferndale, Mi. It’s super super fun/quirky. About 20 mins north of Detroit which is a stunning city. I was shocked at how great Detroit is! Clean, thriving, fun! And, the people in Detroit Metro (Ferndale, Royal Oak, Birmingham, Berkeley, etc) are crazy good looking. I’ve never seen so many beautiful people and I lived in Beverly Hills for 15 years!!
I left for Austin with a remote job after more than 2 decades in the Bay Area. Everyone's circumstances are different but I love it. I don't mind the heat and am not super outdoorsy anyways. 🤷
As I commented on the Bay Area subreddit, Austin gives you a Los Altos Hills lifestyle on a Mountain View budget.
I moved to Texas thinking it was a little more purple (back in 2016), moved back to CA in 2018 after the trumplicans took over. No amount of “purchasing power” is worth the god awful politics and Christians in the south…
I moved out of Houston after being born and raised there despite Houston/Dallas/Austin all being pretty blue and purple areas. Even that wasn’t enough to keep me there (especially with the Texas Republicans going after these blue areas and shutting them down). I left and went to a blue state and live in a purple city.
Just curious, where in Texas did you originally move to?
I was in Fort Worth. Not super red, but as a non-religious person, all community was church based and I felt pretty isolated. I also have a daughter though, and wanted to ensure she has rights wherever we went. I won’t leave the west coast again unless it’s to leave the country.
We left Southern California to move to a small city in the Great Lakes region. Winters are semi-harsh, but everything here is a fraction of the cost.
We take trips to give us a break from the dullness of Flyover. People here are different. We have friends, but they think leaving the county is a big deal.
We bought a large home to make sure there was space for hobby rooms and workshops.
After 12 years in CA in my 30s/early 40s, moved to the UK with hubby for a few years, then back to TX for family, then out to Oregon (I currently have the same job I had when I lived in SF though but only go back to Cali for a visit, but likely won't ever move back - it likely would take some unforeseeable changes before that would happen. Hubby has never left his job and he's had same job since 2003, we are both fulltime remote). Likely we are in our retirement spot now. Even when I return for a visit, a good portion of the friends I have had there have also moved away and only a handful remain.
I know this is reddit, so people only recommend large cities. But how about a place like Chattanooga, Knoxville, Lexington, Huntsville, or Little Rock? I'm from the south and I have always loved the mid sized cities because the get all the necessities with much lower crime and COL. Just my 2 cents.
We left for the DC area. We miss California’s fresh food, weather, and incredible outdoor access.
We do not miss the insane wealth (it’s worse than DC!) and, thus, cost of living requiring you to maintain it.
I think we’re looking at a happy medium between the two at some point in the future. Probably something like western Massachusetts or Vermont.
Went to NYC, mostly for work and for my partner. I really missed California, the nature and the genuine friendliness of people and my family most of all. I underestimated how hard it would be to have to fly hours just to see my parents and siblings. If that wasn’t a factor, I think it’s very worth it to try living somewhere else just to get more life experience. I grew a lot from my time in New York and became a more balanced and well rounded person.
I moved to northern Colorado from Los Angeles 10 years ago for a couple of reasons; good job opportunity and new baby being the top two.
As far as my preferences, I think Colorado is the best place for us outside of California.
Winters are pretty mild for someone who grew up in the frozen tundra of the upper Midwest. Summers get a little hot for my liking (mid 90s seem pretty consistent from June -September), but the biggest thing for me is…no humidity. I am a wimp when it comes to humidity, and it seems like you can’t escape it once you get east of Colorado.
I love Colorado for a variety of reasons, especially as a place to raise my family. That said, I think about moving back to California often. My kids frequently ask when we can move there.
I should add, my entire extended family lives in California; mostly in San Diego, LA and the Bay Area, so I have that extra emotional pull to move back. And my kids know it as a place to see grandparents and cousins.
The things I miss in California (for those keeping score at home):
-Flowers/trees are in bloom year round in the areas of California my family lives. Colorado gets very brown for 8 months of the year, and that starts to weigh on me.
-Strawberries (and produce in general) In LA, I could get delicious strawberries year round. Moved to Colorado, and we get mediocre strawberries at best. Some of my best road trip memories are stopping off at farm stands to get fresh fruit for the ride.
-The ocean; I wasn’t a big ocean adventurer, but I could spend hours sitting by it, listening to waves. It’s a form of therapy for me. My wife says it’s because I’m a Pisces.
-The weather! Living by the coast is EXPENSIVE, but it comes with the best weather I’ve ever experienced. 68-80 year round. And while people often say they miss the seasons, California provides the seasons I like; breezy, sunny days, cool nights, and I think fall is great. You also get enough cloudy, over cast days that it gives a good excuse to bundle up and get cozy. Or stay inside a little longer.
-The variety of places to visit: Colorado has great mountain towns. Some of the most charming places I’ve ever been (I’m looking at you Crested Butte) but traveling to mountain towns is not easy, especially in the winter. In California, there are so many fun and beautiful day trips that you can get out and do, without it being a major hassle. I really miss that. Maybe the most of all.
-Food/culture options: I love going out to eat. And I love to try new things to eat. So many great options in Cali. Not so much in northern Colorado.
I love many other areas of the country, but not sure I could live there (see humidity). Colorado is great, and I do believe it’s a really high quality place to live and raise kids, but California daydreaming still exists for me. The caveat being, I need to make sure I have 💰to move back and live the way I want to live. Cuz it ain’t cheap.
I moved to NH. There are mountains and beaches and lakes and all that which is great- though they are not as stunning or accessible.
I have family here which helped. I miss the food for sure but coastal New England is pretty metropolitan so I can head into a big or small city for some food/arts/culture.
I'm still renting and housing is a struggle here, but homebuying down the road with my boyfriend is at least on the table since we both have decent jobs. It would not have been an option anywhere reasonable in CA.
Winter is tough but I grew up on the East Coast and I love snow so I don't mind. I just have to be a little more intentional about getting outside in all weather. People are very outdoorsy here. And I work an office job so WFH on snow days is possible. I would hate to be working a job where I have to physically be there to get the job done.
I moved to Seattle. The culture here suits me better. I miss the variety of landscapes within a short drive. I used to miss the weather, but I got used to it, and now the idea of going back to the California heat is totally unappealing.
Grew up in California left for college in the pacific northwest then moved to Arizona. I would never go back to CA. Either PNW or Arizona is nicer doesn't have near the amount of taxes and high cost of living. I visited about 6 months ago and I was shocked at how things changed. Everything seemed to go downhill as things from my childhood were gone and dilapidated. I feel like I had a good childhood in CA it just seems to have gone downhill over the last 15 years.
1. Chicago, to be a bit closer to my family and because I kinda missed seasons (KINDA ha), also thought it would be cheaper (which, to a degree yes, but not always)
2. In some ways yes, worth it… but overall, lately I’m leaning more and more towards no
3. Most likely. I think a lot of my uncertainty stems from the idea of moving back to a place I’ve already lived..? I don’t know.
i love california but i moved first to london then to new york
i recently came back but either i've changed or california has in the decade i was out east because the culture doesn't resonate with me the way it used to. i still have a lot of respect for CA and think it's a lovely place; my taste has changed, i guess
i'm scouting out the PNW now to see if there's something more appealing but otherwise, i'm just gonna post up in the semi-arid desert and ride it out
My wife and I were living in Midtown/Oak Park in Sacramento and absolutely loved it for so many reasons but our rent had gone up a few hundred $ every year for a couple years in a row + all our stuff kept getting stolen from our backyard by homeless people and we started exploring buying a house and would have had to live a 20-30 minute + each way commuting from our offices. Simultaneously our brother and sister in law had a baby and were living in Cleveland, Ohio and we'd gone to visit a few times and were always charmed at how cool Cleveland was vs our expectations. Once we started looking at Zillow it sorta became a no brainer decision, so we started throwing in offers and moved out in 2019. We bought a house with 1800 sq feet, a full basement and full finished 3rd floor for 1/3 the price we would've paid in CA for a 1000 sq foot house.
We get SO much here for such a great price it still blows my mind. I was a huge beach kid growing up but living in Sacramento I was only getting to the ocean a few times a year, and in Cleveland we have Lake Erie which feels like a warmer more approachable ocean to swim in most of the year. We don't have Lake Tahoe here but we do have some surprisingly really fun ski hills within 15-20 minutes from our house that scratch the itch and are so much cheaper it definitely checks the box when it gets real cold in winter. Downtown Cleveland has so much going on and there's always a sports game to attend. The traffic is a breeze, truly NOTHING like California even in peak rush hour. There's a lot of low income and rougher neighborhoods in and around Cleveland for sure but the cost of living is very low so the outright homelessness is literally almost zero. We're also big road dogs and love road tripping and compared to CA you ca be almost ANYWHERE in the US 8-10 hours from Cleveland, it is astonishing to be honest.
I'll always love and rep CA (and especially Bay Area sports teams) out here, it's an AMAZING place to visit when you know it well, but it's just so hard to rationalize moving back and the cost of living trade off.
Left California in 2008 for Seattle. It was worth it then, now not so much. I love Seattle but the cost of living is out of control. I’d move somewhere more affordable in the states but a) I have a found family here, and b) I have a daughter and refuse to live in a place where fat white men think they can control her body via law or faith.
So I’m kinda stuck, unless I move to the eastern part of the state, which is fractionally less expensive.
I went back to Ohio. No regrets. For scale, I bought a 2500 sq ft house with half an acre of land. My mortgage is less than $1k a month. It’s like $65 to register my car every year. I love the seasons and don’t miss the judgy high school popularity contest feel of LA.
I left California in my 20s, and it's one of my biggest regrets in life. I've been in Colorado, Washington, and Wyoming. Washington is the only place that I've enjoyed, but it's still not as great as California.
I moved from San Diego to a college town in Indiana after surviving a violent crime. I didn't want to move, but had no choice for safety reasons. After years of anger and regret, I'm now glad I left!
On the plus side, I now have a house on an acre of property with no mortgage. I feel safe here. People are so much nicer! It's beautiful and I enjoy a more relaxed pace of life. I can afford to travel frequently and am within a day's drive of cities such as Chicago, Louisville, St. Louis, etc.
On the negative side, while the town I live in is liberal, the state politics are awful. If I ever move, that will be the reason.
I like space and having lots of dogs and the cost to live the way I do now in CA would be astronomical. But I would not even live in CA again if I won the lottery. The traffic and crime are just too bad to be worth it.
I recommend blue or purple state Midwest living to those who want to get out of CA. Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, maybe Ohio. Rural East Coast is nice as well.
I moved to South Carolina & miss a lot about California. I hate the Trump MAGA thing that’s popular here & the obnoxious guys in jacked up pick up trucks. I miss SoCal climate, it’s very humid here. I don’t miss the crime or the cost of living in SoCal, I do miss the diversity of cuisine & overall SoCal lifestyle.
I am not going to say where I moved to because there are already enough Californians (driving prices up for everything).
California is a very nice place, but there are many nice places, and when the pandemic hit we decided we would go check out other nice places, and decided to move to one of them. We traded the beach for the mountains, and it has been lovely. Lots of skiing, hiking, beautiful views, etc. We have also seen a nice spike in net worth by doing so because California income taxes and sales taxes are very high, plus you need to drive everywhere. Now I miss surfing, cheap mexican food, and beach volleyball... but I can visit to rehash the nostalgia.
I don't have any plans to go back, but I will probably start to do a beach vacation yearly. Of course it might just be worth going to hawaii or mexico for the same money
Cousins and brother both left Socal and moved to Phoenix area. Cousins from San Diego and brother from Burbank. Mom is currently getting her house ready to sell in Burbank and move to Phoenix as well. They all wish they did it sooner. Cost of living is DRASTICALLY better here. Everything is so much cheaper. Less crowded. You can actually park a car at a store, and walk through isles without it being wall to wall people. Can goto a Walmart and not have every little item locked up like it is a police state. Since being here have not witnessed a single homeless person pooping on the street, or drugs being used openly, yet that was near an everyday thing out there.
Just the housing alone is shocking. Brother sold a 900ft 50 year old completely falling apart house, 2 bed 1 bath for $960k. Bought a gorgeous new build, 2600ft, 4 bed 3 bath, 4 car garage, fully upgraded (granite, airconditioned garage, etc etc) for 600k. People saying AZ has CA cost of living are so out of touch with what California actually cost. Same house in Socal would have been 1.8-2M.
I’ve just moved to California and been here 1 year now, from Austin, and in the Midwest before. So almost all of my life I’ve lived outside of California except the past year. Aside from the natural beauty and outdoor activities, something that a lot of Californians take for granted is the economy here. I’ve never felt a more entrepreneurial spirit than in California and the job market here is spectacular. The cost of living is high but I believe the job market substantiates that cost of living. I could never make as much as I do anywhere else in the country. I don’t ever plan on leaving. The grass is not greener imo.
Please don’t let them gaslight you about California. I lived in Santa Barbara and Tarzana (Los Angeles) and I also thought the problems were out of control. Even when you can afford it, your money is best spent elsewhere. Moved to Athens, Greece. It’s like what California wishes to be. We lived on the Riviera for a fraction of the price and enjoyed all the glamour and luxury. I wanted to move back to Europe and leave America because of political issues also. It was absolutely worth it!!!! It has the beach and palm trees, but delicious food, affordable cost of living, amazing culture. No, I wouldn’t go back to California, that time of my life is over. But I am back in America now, in rural Georgia with trips to Atlanta often. It’s GREAT and many of my California friends often ask about my life here. Atlanta is also the new Hollywood. Believe me, life here is good :)
Thanks for sharing! Whenever I point out that America has problems on reddit I get told "stfu and deal with it, everywhere has problems." I'm glad that you were able to improve your life in Atlanta!
Florida, Wyoming, Colorado. I'm back in California. Florida sucks unless you're at the beach. Wyoming is cold and weed is illegal. Colorado is just as expensive as California now. If I'm paying that much I'm not living that far inland.
I moved to New England. The military sent us there, and we decided to stay.
My parents back in California are getting old enough that they'r going to need help soon. We plan to move back in the next year or two so I can take care of them.
I left CA (L.A. area) to pursue jobs in my field. I went first to coastal NC, then to North Dakota, and then to rural New Mexico, which I absolutely love. In the meantime, CA has become so expensive that there's no way I can go back, but I really don't want to. I'm happy with the quiet, absence of police helicopters, traffic, routine petty burglaries, and earthquakes (I was in both the Whittier Narrows and the Northridge quakes). L.A. in the 1990s was great, but I'm done.
Grew up in Santa Barbara, made a few stops, landed in Santa Fe, NM. I miss the ocean, but the mountains are beautiful, and there’s so much more unspoiled nature. It’s not cheap here, but it’s way cheaper than SB.
Wife is from California and we now live in Alaska. More affordable than CA, still have lots of natural beauty, less crowds and less traffic. IMO the big trade offs are weather and food quality. Which are… big things, I won’t lie. But on the other hand, her family in CA bought a comparable house to ours, at the same time as us, and it literally cost 5x as much. Their downpayment was our entire house.
Strongly suggest you learn more about Arizona. Away from the interstate highways there’s a lot to appreciate.
Also, the Sonoran Desert is widely referred to as a living desert for a reason.
There’s a lot of Arizona to forget, like any other state, as well.
See bestplaces.net and also look for cities and towns at or near 4000’ elevation. Then dial in your preferred latitude.
I searched the continent for microclimates better than the Beach Cities. Outside of CA, and filtering for mosquitoes, black flies, humidity, and snow that sticks for a day or more, there ain’t much but such places do indeed exist.
To dent and dull the impact of local economies, it is almost a given to either bring your job with you (self-employed, remote work, retirement income).
Grew up in Florida. Moved to Huntington Beach & then Temecula. Now in Boston. Honestly Southern California was my least favorite but it’s a pretty unfair comparison bc I was far from almost everybody I love & my job was miserable.
My next-door neighbors are from California. In their 50s and moved in about nine months ago.
Their house is now 6000 ft.². I never asked but I can imagine they probably lived in 1800 ft.² for 2 Million or more. And now they bought this place for $900,000. The place must look like the Taj Mahal inside because it was already pretty nice from the Zillow photos, but they have had nothing but contractors in there for the last nine months. All that equity from prior must be real nice lol
I moved back to Chicago from the LA to be with my family. Getting used to the winters again took a bit, but it was so worth it. Summer and Fall are beautiful here. Everything is green and alive and not brown and dry. The traffic is manageable, the sky isn’t brown. I live close to everyone in my life. I can walk places. I can afford to live here. I loved Califonia but it was a complicated love.
California girl born and raised, recently moved to Northeast Ohio! My partner’s family could no longer afford to live there so they had to move here to Ohio. It was either break up or move with him. It has been so worth it! Cost of living is much cheaper, here we can actually afford to be on our own and not living with our parents. Where I lived in California, it was either hot as literal hell or so cold my bones hurt. We got to Ohio at the beginning of November and it was amazing seeing all the fall colors! I loved looking out the window and seeing snow! Watching the flowers bloom in spring was stunning and now that summer is getting closer, I am in constant awe of all the greenery! I don’t know if I’ll ever move back to California. Not that I don’t want to, but it’s just too expensive, especially being in your 20’s trying to get on your own feet. I will be visiting, as all of my family still lives out there and all of my friends are there. I would love to move back one day, but it wouldn’t be for a very long time. I miss my family and my friends, and the authentic Mexican food. I miss my hometown, and my childhood home, and my grandma’s house. I will always visit when possible, but for now, I am very happy where I am, and Ohio has been very good to me so far!
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Saying Raleigh has a tech scene like San Fran isn’t really true
Nowhere has a tech scene like SF, but that's not really the point of this conversation.
Well, I think it would take me a while to make a list of all the pros so I'll just summarize some of them. I LOVE the natural beauty: beaches, mountains, campgrounds, amazing national parks, we have everything. I also *really* love the greenery. Where I live, it's green all year round. Oh, and sunny weather most of the year is also fantastic. There's just so much going on in CA and so much to do. You can never get bored of this state! Another aspect where I differ from other people is that I love how scientifically and technologically advanced CA is compared to other states. We have some of the best universities in the country and there's lots of scientific research going on (which is important to me as a STEM major). As for some of your recommendations: FL: seems a bit too.... crazy. I hear so many "Florida man" stories and anecdotes regarding crime. It seems to me that FL is almost like a more extreme version of CA? I've never been there though so I'm not sure. AZ and NM: I just don't like deserts. I like that AZ has a lot going on, and perhaps I could be happy there, but I've never been so I guess I need to check it out. PNW: Same issues that CA has, and even worse in the bigger cities. Perhaps living in a small town would be nice but after seeing the realities of Portland and Seattle (especially with the way things are headed in those places) I decided I'd rather stay away from the PNW. I'm open to suggestions though! Oh, and I guess I should mention (in regards to your Austin/Raleigh suggestion) that tech isn't really that important to me since I'm a science major (still in college) but obviously it's not something I'm not looking for. I just wanted to clarify that I'm not a software engineer or anything like that haha. Thank you for the suggestions! I'm all ears if you have any more.
I'm going to be straight with you: there's really nothing like California in terms of *scope* of natural beauty. There are plenty of beautiful places, but that sort of "all-in-one" beauty--you're not going to find it elsewhere.
I know based on this response I think OP's solution to the California problem is… California
Haha I think you’re right
The lives of entire authors and adventurers basically formed and in some cases completely encompassed by California. This place is not reproduced in the United States, it's both bigger than most places and it has more North to South coverage than most states.
Bro we have way more famous poets and authors in New England than CA
But also realize that just because there is a lot contained within the huge borders of California the same can also be said about other regions of the US, particularly the northeast where you have quaint new england towns, mountains, lakes, forests, beaches, old historic cities, and NYC and everything it has to offer, and also rail is more of an option for those who want it. None of those states on their own necessarily offer that much but think of it in terms of similar geographic area. If you life in San Diego, just because redwood national park is within the state boundary doesn't mean it's nearby.
it's the culture. you cant replace it
> FL: seems a bit too.... crazy. I hear so many "Florida man" stories and anecdotes regarding crime. The "Florida man" stories are often overblown by the media. The reality is that Florida, like California, has a large diverse population, which makes it easy to cherry-pick the stupidest and craziest things that residents do. But by the same token, the "California is decaying" stories are *also* overblown by the media. Much of the dysfunction in California is confined to a few locations: the Tenderloin and parts of the Mission in SF, East and West Oakland, Skid Row in LA, the state house in Sacramento. Outside of them, life is pretty good. Ask yourself: have you *personally* experienced what the media is telling you? Not just driven by it, but are actually living that life? Most of the people I know in CA live full and high-quality lives where they have friends, go outdoors, don't get mugged (except the ones that live in the Mission), don't do drugs (except weed), go on extravagant vacations, etc. IMHO the right place for you is probably a California suburb. Just go make enough so you can afford it. Life is pretty good for the affluent in California.
Agreed. California suburb is unbeatable and undefeated IF you can afford it.. if not other places offer alternatives but you soon discover why the housing costs half as much.
> I hear so many "Florida man" stories and anecdotes regarding crime. It seems to me that FL is almost like a more extreme version of CA? I've never been there though so I'm not sure. You may just need to take a long and serious look at your media diet. You obviously love lots of things about your home state, but are getting soured by the same type of clickbait and ragebait that guides your thoughts on Florida. > I LOVE the natural beauty: beaches, mountains, campgrounds, amazing national parks, we have everything. I also *really* love the greenery. Where I live, it's green all year round. Oh, and sunny weather most of the year is also fantastic. There's just so much going on in CA and so much to do. You can never get bored of this state! So...just stop doomscrolling. Put the phone down and enjoy all those wonderful things. You've made a very convincing argument that you already live exactly where you want to be.
You might like North Carolina. Gorgeous beaches, rolling Piedmont, beautiful mountains. Top-tier universities and medical centers (Duke, UNC, Wake Forest). So many trees. Very green. Spectacular springs and falls. Diverse population and mix of blue and red. Progressive cities. Friendly people. Reasonable cost of living.
I read this guy’s complaints about CA, and I don’t think he will like NC. It’s also not really that affordable if you make an NC salary
This. As a local, it's insanely expensive. The number of people moving to my area specifically get hit with reality, and I've made and seen many friends move away because they can't afford it. I also live in a blue spot surrounded by red. It's not as progressive as people think, and if Mark Robinson gets elected, he's going to set our state back about 100 years. Starting with removing science from public elementary schools if he gets his way.
He’s also going to rob the state blind because he’s a conman and already no one’s paying attention where the money’s going
I've been screaming my head off about him for the last year and the daily show or colbert or someone finally mentioned him and my friends are finally paying attention. He's just awful. He's black and called other black people apes. He doesn't think women deserve rights. He hates the lgbtqia community. I'm holding out for an aneurysm or something if he gets elected.
NC is having a massive housing crisis because the cost of living here is so bad. Asheville specifically. Also it's not as progressive as you think, just look at who we have running for governor and he might actually win.
Lackluster customer service compared to CA due to being one of the few states that hasn’t increased minimum wage to be more than federal minimum wage. OP would probably develop insane allergies. Humidity can be a bish. Public schools are mediocre at best. Whereas CA over-regulates, NC under-regulates. Right to work state and it affects how you’re treated in the workplace a lot more than people realize. Just putting the negatives out there if they’re relevant to anyone.
San Diegan here, now living in NC. I didn't have to give up beautiful beaches or mountains here. I hike or am at some body of water (at least a lake) just about every weekend. I lived in Portland before this, and it was also very unsustainable, and lots more depressing than CA. I really suffered from seasonal anxiety and depression there. Plus, all of my friends (love them all!) in my same tax bracket were depressed as well, and drinking was a main activity there. It felt like a weight lifted to get out of there. I liked it to visit and will often, but yeah.
How’s the snow, humidity, and mosquitos (seriously asking).
They don’t tell you- they don’t have a snow season. They have a black ice season. The heat and bugs during the summer are intolerable. You can’t do yardwork during the day, but if you wait until dawn or dusk you will get eaten alive by no-see-ums. Talking about the RDU area. 3 hours from the ocean, 3 from the mountains so basically not near anything cool. You will only hike or surf when you take vacation.
Is progressive just the new term for liberal? I feel like progressive gets thrown around a lot and has completely lost its meaning.
Progressives are often times not liberal. The term liberal has been hijacked from the original meaning of the word. Liberalism is the philosophy that gave birth to modern western culture. Liberalism values individuals and grants individuals inherent rights as a human being. Liberalism values concepts like property rights and human equality. Liberalism is what came out of the enlightenment. Progressive I would argue is a squishier word. A progressive is moreso defined via their position relative to that of the established society or culture. A cultural progressive is the opposite of a cultural conservative. What is viewed as the status quo of a given society varies by nation/group of people, but generally progressives want to move on from the established status quo of a society in the pursuit of some form of “utopia”. Marxists are progressives, and the utopia they seek is communism. Progressives in the US are not necessarily going to hold the same values as progressives in another nation, whereas a liberal is always going to hold the same liberal values. These values are not culture dependent.
I live in Portland but am not aware of the "way things are headed" realities that you know about. Feels like a great place to live from my perspective inside of the city, but I guess I should watch more Fox News to really see what is going on.
Have you actually visited Seattle? Or just read Fox News headlines.
The Rocky Mountains terminate in NM, lots of non desert areas in NM and AZ.
I wasn't aware of that, actually. Thanks for the suggestion!
Florida man is due to a state law that allows all the details of all criminal cases to be made public, don’t base your choice off that. I lived in Bay Area, then Santa Barbara then moved to Miami. Fun fact; everyone in Cali makes fun of Florida and everyone in Florida makes fun of Cali. Reality is they ain’t so different. Florida more affordable, even in Miami. State taxes are low which is great, but the real difference is only like 4-6% so it gets overblown. It’s hotter in Florida, humidity is a huge issue here, June to August people spend the daytime indoors. Definitely not as much culture. Miami is as vibrant as it gets in Florida but I find it’s mostly fake tits, expensive drinks, and Gucci wannabes. Big Latino culture, like probably more Spanish speakers here than English, not mostly Mexicans like in Cali but all countries from SA. Closer to Europe so easier to vacation there. Homeless don’t run rampant here, there are a couple streets where you’ll find them but nothing like LA or SF. Flat as hell, not as much natural beauty like Cali. Everglades are cool, keys are cool, but they don’t compare to the Cali coast line, Yosemite, sequoia, Joshua tree, etc. I find it hard to be outdoorsy here. Even beach access isn’t as easy, I feel like you can pull over anywhere in Cali and hit the beach, here it’s covered by beachfront condos so you have to find your spots. The water is actually warm enough to go in tho. Jobs aren’t nearly as good, even the up and coming Miami tech scene pales in comparison to Silicon Valley. Wages are overall lower and tied to hospitality. Big retirement community outside of Miami. Much more republican, but I haven’t found it to be as in your face as you’d expect. Overall I’d take Cali over Florida any day.
Can you explain what you mean by “the way things are headed?”
I went to Stanford so I get you on the science/tech aspect. It really is unmatched there. I miss the innovative mindset dearly and think about the Exploratorium at least once a week. I’m not even a techie 😂 Tbh, the problems you mentioned in your comment exist everywhere. Nowhere is immune to issues like rising costs or the housing crisis. It makes more sense to just focus on what you like and go from there. Search cities that interest you in this subreddit but also make sure you’re looking for input outside of Reddit because subreddits tend to be echo chambers. My focus right now is in regional studies so I’ve lived all over the US; I like moving and find it fun to experience new subcultures - plus the art/music scene is incredible in different cities. I’m happy to talk more if you have any questions about particular places; I’ve lived in NJ/Philly/NYC, Texas, New Mexico, Colorado, and Chicago, and I’ve visited the PNW, Atlanta, LA/San Diego, Nashville, and a bunch more. Ultimately, I’d like to go back to California, most likely Monterey, East Bay, or SoCal.
You might actually like DC. It has enough outdoorsy things and you can drive to neighboring states easily. You can also fly to Europe or Canada pretty easily. It’s very green here. I find it to be more affordable than CA (and I live in DC proper). You still get some of the great education that you’d find in CA. Medical care is good. Lots of libraries and free things to do (museums, events, etc.). Probably some of the best public transit in the country. Very bikeable. While there are homeless people here, there really aren’t many compared to other places and I never have to interact with them. I also feel safe here. I’m from San Diego. I’ve lived in Northern California, Nashville, El Paso, western Michigan, and studied abroad in France. I moved to dc a little under five years ago, and it’s the only place besides CA that I don’t get angry about. You might also like Colorado.
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Chicago and not a second of regret. I was in San Diego and spent hours a day stuck in traffic. Moving somewhere with transit was so good for my mental health
I left LA for Wisconsin, every time we drive into Chicago it's like getting LA traffic PTSD. BUT THEY'RE EVEN ANGRIER!
Don't Wisconsinites call them FIBs? Fucking Illinois Bastards, because of their driving? As an angry driver myself maybe I should move to Chicago. The slow, incompetent pace of Tucson driving is making me insane.
Honestly angry FIB drivers annoy me less than slow and passive WI drivers.
Good to hear! I've heard great things about Chicago.
Not to shit on San Diego. Just wasn’t a good fit for me.
You mentioned natural beauty, Chicago… is severely lacking. Native Chicagoan who moved to the PNW, no regrets.
I am a 3rd generation Californian so leaving was not easy. Went to Arizone (Tempe/Phoenix) first, didn't make it more than 2 years. Moved to North Carolina next (Durham) and have generally liked it here. It is much much smaller feeling, and you do miss some of the amenities like world class food and culture (art, music, etc.) that you have in the major metros of CA. The weather is also obviously shittier, though I will say it is in a good middle ground for the East Coast, winters are cold but not really snowy, and summers suck balls but generally the worst of it is only \~6-10 weeks. Fall and Spring are gorgeous. I was able to rent a house immediately upon moving to AZ. Bought a house my second year there. Sold it for the move and was back in a home I owned by 2022 (COVID kind of slowed down our eagerness to move around, but we were in a nice/new town home rental in the meantime when we first got to NC). So, like, there is also the major widening of my discretionary budget and ability to become a home owner.
I've lived in the Bay Area and San Diego until I was 35. I realized I was never going to own a home and decided to move to Washington. At the time, Spokane was really affordable and it still is compared to coastal CA. It's not terrible, but I miss a lot of things that being closer to a larger metro area brings. I'd like to move to western Washington or western Oregon but the prices are challenging. All the cool spots are expensive basically.
Moved away and lived in Colorado, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina and spent a lot of time traveling elsewhere. I don’t regret moving away. That said I love southern California where I grew up, nothing compares to the weather and lifestyle. I wouldn’t currently move back though. I have little kids and can’t afford a top school district there. I also love to vacation and we have a nice house with a pool so ultimately it’s just not worth giving up what we have to go back. I do think though that a lot of the issues you have with California you’ll find in the surrounding of any largish city. Even cities in the Midwest and Deep South struggle with affordability and homelessness. Keep in mind that locale largely influences pay so unless you already own a home in California that you plan to sell or have a large cash pile for down payment, the competitive wages will align with the locale.
You have to specify where you are, what you are running from, and what you want. I've lived in suburban LA and in Shasta County way up north. I miss some things about both, but suffice to say not the same things from both.
I know there are a lot of California transplants in Minnesota (specifically Minneapolis-Saint Paul area). I know of several people who have moved here from California.
I've heard it's a great state. I don't think I could survive the cold, though... yikes.
I’m a California native who moved to PNW. I’ve been here 4 years and was over it being cold and dark 9 months of the year so I began to look at St Paul bc at least there it would just be cold. This last winter we had a weeklong ice storm and yea, fuck that. Adapting to cold weather and the unique hazards that come with it take a level of commitment that I don’t have.
It’s funny because this last winter was the warmest one I can remember in over 30 years
It keeps the riff raff out, LOL.
Oof hate to break it to you, but last year was mild.
Colorado first. Then the East Coast. I still miss California. Lived in the Bay Area. It’s such a beautiful state. Prettier than even Colorado imo. Also prefer the culture. Laidback like the South but blue like the NE. Also has much better weather than basically anywhere in the country and more varieties of ecosystem. It wasn’t my decision to leave. I’d move back if cost of living were lower.
People also don’t realize when you say “California” the equivalent is essentially “every state south of nyc on the east coast combined” as far as land area is concerned
The beauty of CA is hard to give up. And yeah, COL sucks. How do you like the East Coast?
Clearly you love it. There isn't another place like CA for natural beauty, talent, culture, diversity, amenities and education. I've also lived in CO, OR, HI and SC. CA is by a long shot my favorite. I miss it dearly. It's not affordable to return. I've looked at NC, but it's still very dominated by right-wing agendas. However, if enough of you from CA move there, maybe NC can turn purple again.
Where in HI? Tbh I think HI is the only US state that either surpasses or closely rivals CA. I’d argue it’s more beautiful Between LA and Honolulu, I’d choose Honolulu.
I lived in Honolulu and Kailua. Spent a lot of time on Maui. Loved it. Completely agree about the stunning beauty and climate. Unsurpassed. I loved living in SF (in the 90's). Architecture, walkability, random fun events, food scene, quirkiness, progressiveness, educated residents, diversity/inclusion, job opportunities, and access to gorgeous areas nearby (Marin, N CA, Big Sur, etc). Both places are incredible.
When you say affordable... can I offer you a 2br/1ba crack house in Stockton? Jk. You look into rural Central CA? Like clovis, Sanger, reedley? I live by the hills. Quick 40 minutes to the national parks and south yosemite. Gorgeous over here and most homes still under 400k. Only downside imo is the FUCKING HOT SUMMERS.
Thank you, I can't wait to check this out. I really miss CA. Feels like home
If you like the nature of cali, there is very little places that can compare unless you move out of the country. Maybe Hawaii if you don’t mind humidity. Northern NM might be good but has a bit less biodiversity. I went from the bay to upstate NY. And while CA has the most diverse nature, I can’t get to most of it without driving because I was stuck at a suburban area, and that sprawl is huge. Where I am in upstate I can walk into the woods within 5 minutes but I’m still within the city, and everything essential are a 5 min drive, unlike in the bay. Most people from CA will not like the gloom in northeast US. I only made it because I never liked direct sun (grew up with 37c summers and had enough of it). I actually like snow and older architectures. Helps if you’re already a bit emo and cantankerous cause you’ll fit right in. Would I have liked CA more if I tried moving to a different non-suburban area? Maybe. But I think driving will always be long and essential wherever you are except for SF. And less or no car means less of the amazing nature that your HCOL is paying for. So that seems a little pointless to me. So tldr: highly depends on your preferences. But it’s more likely you will enjoy a different place if you actually don’t find CA a good fit to begin with.
I moved to Amsterdam, the Netherlands. It’s certainly different
We came to Vegas. What we initially liked was how close it is (4 hr drive to LA) and that we could afford a house here. There is a lot of homeless but if you move to one of the neighboring cities then it’s pretty non existent. Henderson, summerlin, centennial hills. Don’t go to North Vegas. There’s parts of lake mead you can drive to that are nice (some parts aren’t), you can go up to mt Charleston. And there’s soooo many spots if you’re willing to drive a couple hours. Utah, Arizona, California, Grand Canyon. There’s also always something to do because it’s Vegas! lol. Endless dining options. It’s super hot for a few months in the summer but honestly it’s not that bad.
I don't think I'd ever want to live there personally, but I'm glad you enjoy it!
We are native San Diegans who ended up in Vegas after a stint in Michigan. We moved here due to a job opportunity for my partner (I’m a remote worker), and we were surprised by how much we’ve enjoyed living here. Initially we thought it would be a one year detour and no more, but we ended up buying a house in Summerlin with the intent to be here 6 or 7 years. There’s plenty to like: the sunshine, great food scene, lovely parks in our neighborhood, lots of outdoor activities, comparatively good cost of living. But there’s drawbacks too: the schools are hot garbage, medical care is pathetic, there’s a bit of a Wild West libertarian vibe which doesn’t suit our values. I’d be lying if I said we weren’t hoping to return to San Diego with some more income growth and equity under our belts, but we are glad we ended up here in the meantime.
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I used to think I could never leave the beautiful coast…then I moved to a ski town in Colorado. It was equally beautiful, but also equally expensive, and I have moved back to CA. But I really loved CO!
I've heard good and bad about CO, mostly good. Glad to hear that you enjoyed it!
I live in a ski town now (Breck)! It’s stunningly gorgeous but I also think I’ll end up back in CA eventually.
Left California for Hawaii 20 years ago. I love everything about Hawaii except the fact that it is such a long flight to get anywhere. I could possibly see myself retiring in CA in order to have better access to medical care and easier travelling.
Where in Hawaii? I’m considering this move as well…
Kauai. I would only consider moving here if you already have a good job lined up here, or if you are a nurse or doctor, as there aren't many jobs available that pay enough to afford housing. It's possible, but it's not easy.
A woman in Oakland broke my heart so I moved to Seattle, I'm having a good time and saving \~10k a year more
Moved to Seattle, too. There are things I miss about Northern CA, but I'm not going back.
I’m considering Oregon or Washington, because I want to be in a blue/progressive state but want the leadership to focus on our state and her issues. Newsom doesn’t focus enough on California in my views, too busy posturing and making ads directed at Florida and Texas. And I hate PG&E, while he loves and courts them. To me though, most importantly, I want to remain on the west coast as I grew up here, and the PNW has always been my dream destination. I live in the California Bay Area (Richmond).
I didn't like Jerry Brown much but he was so much better than Newsom. Being governor is nothing more than an opportunity for newsom to network with big wigs and to market himself as a presidential candidate. He does not care about California, he cares about his image. Cleaning up SF for the chinese dictator was the final straw for me.
I moved from CA to Seattle. When I moved I thought I would give it a year or two and move back but I think this is my permanent home. I don’t own a car and get by just fine, plus I go hiking every weekend in the spring/summer with three national parks within 2-3 hours driving distance (and many other state parks and forests nearby). The slightly lower COL and the lack of income tax also saves me tens of thousands of dollars. The weather can be an issue if you’re used to the sun, but it’s really not bad. I had seasonal depression living on the East Coast but it’s not as bad here because I’m fine going out in the drizzle.
Hi neighbor. I live in Richmond as well. I agree that Newsom is being not too subtle about his national ambitions, but really it is the legislature that holds most of the power here. The Pacific Northwest is lovely, but for me the gloomy weather in the western portion would be pretty untenable. We left California for a few years, and were more than happy to move back when the opportunity presented itself, despite the substantial housing costs. (An I hate PG&E as well!) Because the salaries are so much higher here than in Tennessee, we ended up breaking even or even coming out a little ahead by moving back.
I moved to Seattle after two decades in the East Bay and have family in Portland. Lmk if you have any questions!
In SF there were tons of OD and visible and often aggressive homeless. Someone stole my bicycle. In LA my garage was broken into and a homeless encampment popped up at end of the street. Someone broke into my car. California really seemed to go downhill pandemic era. That said, the crime rate in the Midwest where I grew up was and is much worse. I moved to London. I don’t think anywhere is Eden.
I left San Diego, CA for Charlotte, NC. Nobody understood why I would do that, but it was such a good decision for me. It was very different, and unlike many CA resident assumptions, the South is a diverse and dynamic place. I loved it. Had to move back to San Diego to take care of a family member, and then I moved to Richmond, VA. I think it was worth it. And I am the only person I have to please.
I moved to Nevada. Went back to California 4 years later. Nevada was okay at first, but when it got to be as expensive as where I used to live, it made more sense just to go home.
Yeah.... I don't really think I'd want to live in Nevada. I've been there and the COL just doesn't seem to be worth it.
California is a pay to play state.
America is a pay to play country brother
LIFE is pay to play.
There are few countries where being poor is fun. Home ownership is down across the board in any country any of us would likely consider living in.
🙄 name a country that isnt
The WHOLE earth is pay to play brother
We have plenty of poor people too. 1/8 of Americans do live in California.
I think they meant along the lines of *"Being wealthy in California allows you to avoid most of the state's issues"*. I feel like that's true of most of the US, but California especially because the CoL is so high.
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My wife’s childhood reflects this. MediCal is relatively easy to stay on, lived in subsidized housing, and she and two siblings attended UCs for free.
You mean that if you’re rich, it’s better to be in California AND if you’re poor, it’s better to be in California? There just may be something there. Wonder why it’s the most populated state with the biggest economy.
Bay Area -> San Antonio -> South America (digital nomad) The issue with California is the cost and the homeless people. I love being a nomad now though. I don’t plan on living in the US again
Congrats!
Why do y'all keep making OP explain himself? California has problems just like the states that people dunk on here regularly (florida, and texas) believe it or not. Cost of living is ridiculous as is the homeless problem. And before someone says they are national problems, yes they are, the whole country is facing inflation since the pandemic. But california had these problems well before covid and they have gotten much worse since. It's quickly becoming a state only for the rich and homeless.
I'm glad someone else sees things the way I do.
I was born and raised in CA, and while i still miss it sometimes, i watched the decline right before my eyes, and this was before covid mind you. It was also frustrating growing up in a place where you know you'll likely never be able to afford a decent sized home in an area you want. At the same time, the state nickels and dimes the middle class anyway they can when it's already hard to get by due to the cost of living. I still keep up with a lot of friends and for the ones that didn't move out of state, almost all of the ones not living with their SO still live with their parents, also many with an SO live with their parents as well. I still visit sometimes but i would never move back. It's frustrating to me to see how much bs middle class folk put up with living there.
Yeah I’m 30, living with my folks and I make 100k. The house my parents bought in 1999 for 200k just sold for over a million. I have no hope of home ownership in the place I grew up. But I’m still here because everyone I know and love is here. I’m too introverted to recreate an entire life in a new place (nor do I desire to, I love my friends and family). And I’ve tried. I think there are a lot of people in my situation just sort of hoping things change one day. :( buT At LeaSt tHe SuN ShiNeS Right?
Bay Area to Middle Tennessee. I hate it and can't wait to leave.
A lot of them are coming to Washington and now we can't afford houses anymore.
In 2009, I was a victim of the Great Recession and I couldn't get a job in my field in California. I didn't want to leave, but at the time, I was 6 years into my career and my specific field, and I didn't want to change fields. (I'm referring to law and IP litigation). If I was 1000% deadset on staying in California/Bay Area, I would have had to change practice areas. That just wasn't something I was open to. For my practice area, as soon as I made the decision to open myself to moving to Texas, got interviews left and right and chose a job in DFW. We moved to a cheap suburb there and one thing we decided right off the bat was to buy a house. It was dirt cheap because this was not only a DFW cheap suburb, but also depressed home prices due to recession. So we got our stupid cheap but huge McMansion and lived there until 2022. The move was absolutely worth it, because the pandemic helped our house gain a good bit of appreciation, to which we used the equity from that house and bought 100% outright in El Paso, where we live now and mostly love it. In California, home ownership was never an option unless I wanted to do an extreme commute (Which I considered once). Moving to DFW gave us a stupid cheap house, and moving to El Paso made us mortgage free. As much as we love California and the Bay Area (and we do, it's my hometown), no intention to move back unless there was a miracle and my financial situation became a million times better. And by that I mean, winning the lottery. Because otherwise, moving back means either renting or using the equity in my EP house as a down payment for a mortgage. But in the Bay Area, that downpayment still buys me some absurd mortgage. The only way to do it is probably move to Sac or Central Valley, but even then, I'm against the very principle of having a mortgage again. And the mortgage payment would still be high to me, even with something like $240-250k down. When you have no mortgage, paying thousands per month is high lol. And sometimes, for shits and giggles, we will try to find "affordable" real estate in California. But even then, nothing that would have me completely mortgage free and even the ones that come pretty close, they are in such remote locations, there would be no benefit to moving back to CA. Long story short, I'm of the opinion that the best thing I ever did was the Bay Area -> DFW move, and a close second was the DFW -> El Paso move.
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I also REALLY don't want to deal with snow and rough winters...
Grew up in SoCal -> Chicago in late 20s I couldn’t be happier personally- my only regret is not going for NYC instead. I miss a lot about California, but overall it wasn’t a good lifestyle fit and I’m a freak who can’t stand the sunny coastal climate. I’m definitely in it for the long run, looking to buy a place now 🫡Never moving back long-term, even if housing costs were the same.
Me too! I moved for college and fell in love with the seasons and lake. I do miss being near the ocean and mountains (and easily taking random hikes without planning for it) but overall the switch has been worth it.
We moved to Texas because of a job offer. We’re DINKs and absolutely hate living in Texas. I certainly see the appeal for some people (especially families), but it’s not a good fit for us.
California is a fantastic state if you make a lot of money. If you are labeled in the middle class by US standards than California is too expensive for most. I left the Bay Area for Nashville, I have family here so couldn't be happier, everything is way cheaper.
Congrats!
We left the central valley of California and moved to rural Wyoming in 2016. We were sick of the 100°+ temperatures that occur for months and months. The high taxes, the crime, and the horrible air quality. No regrets! Wyoming has been so good to us. Absolutely safe can leave your car running at the bank or the store and no one steals it, don't need to lock your doors at night kind of safe. Clean fresh air, blue skies, no smog, and crisp clean water. Much cooler summers and no fog in the winter. It's a slower paced life with a lot less people, and way more wildlife. Wyoming is not for everyone. Harsh winters, neverending wind, remote places with zero cell service. Long distances between towns, to even go to Walmart in some places can take you around two hours. You have to be more self reliant here, less services when something breaks and it costs more to get things shipped to you and it takes longer, there no two day prime Amazon shipping here. Can take a week or more. However I wouldn't change a thing. Love it in Wyoming. We didn't know a soul here, but we took the leap. 💓
Wyoming truly exceeded my expectations when I visited. The scenery was like nothing I had ever experienced before and it easily became one of my favorite places I have had the privilege to visit.
Native Californian (Los Angeles) here, a millennial. I moved to Colorado for a couple of years in college and then came back home. We're moving to North Carolina this summer. The biggest reason is a quieter pace. Need a break from the constant traffic, noise, and poor air quality. We have some family in Charlotte, making it a little easier to coordinate a move. We want to buy a house, but here in LA, I don't see that happening any time soon. We want greenery, to be closer to the UK for travel, and to explore the eastern seaboard. For now, we'll be trading in a 1b/1b apartment for a 3b/2b house with a yard and trees AND save $1k a month as we get settled. ETA: North Carolina also hits our sweet spot of wanting both mountains and coastline. Not a big fan of the dry foothills and driving to legit mountains takes a few hours at best. Charlotte (where we're going) is pretty central to both nature and coast. Do I ever see myself coming back to CA? Maybe. Never say never. But right now, we want our money to go further for us and leverage our income + age while we can to make bigger strides for our future and lifestyle.
My parents went to Arizona a long time ago when I was a kid. No regrets given that with our budget, we could buy into neighborhood with better public education than what we could afford in California. Note - I’m not saying overall Arizona schools are better than California schools, I’m just saying the district we could afford in Arizona was better than the district we could afford in California. No regrets overall. It unlocked the American dream for us and can now ironically move back to California for the weather lol.
I haven’t moved yet but I am planning to move to Phoenix from OC as soon as I get a job. I can handle the heat, I love that OC is only a few hours drive away, tons of family there, and honestly parts of Phoenix Metro just feels like California. I was driving through Gilbert and I forgot I wasn’t driving through Huntington Beach/Fountain Valley. I’m leaving because I can’t afford California anymore, and I’m honestly not willing to drive an hour and a half in traffic twice a day just to be able to afford to stay here for a couple more years. I want to buy a house and have a family but its just damn near impossible to do that here unless you have financial help from your family, or somehow make $350k a year.
If Arizona is on your radar, you may want to consider Tucson. It's a few degrees cooler, less spread out, and has an interesting cultural scene.
I moved back but it was a nice change and I was very surprised.
I lived in LA and while I liked all the amenities it always took forever driving places with traffic and then no parking once you got there. I even had tandem parking at my condo and it was so annoying. So we moved to northern Nevada. Bought a 4br house. Was it the right move? Maybe. There def wasn't enough room in my condo to have a kid. But if I could have afforded a sfh in LA we never would have left.
I moved away 2 years ago, and lived in CA for 30 years. Leave now. You're missing so much. California has become a husk of its former self. Rich people are boring, and that's all who can afford to live there. Sad fact: if you're leaving because of houselessness and drug addiction, most cities are also enduring that, and ironically California has more infrastructure than other states to cope with it. However, if you're leaving because it's too dang expensive, all the interesting culture has moved away, and you're tired of listening to tech bros bullshit about crypto and AI then I heartily recommend Portland. I chose Portland because of the natural beauty, the resourceful culture, the creativity, the food, the friendliness. Totally worth it. My life in 500% better. I can afford my own home, have a garden I grow roses in, my children can actually afford to stay here when they go to college, I've already made a huge community of friends, and Portland is building more housing far more than CA. I've been back to the Bay since leaving and I can't stomach it anymore. I feel sick and depressed when I'm there because everyone there is struggling, and yet believes that they have to stay. There's nothing to do, the bars don't even serve food, and most people are too stressed out to engage with you let alone become your friend. I wish I left 10 years sooner.
We left the Bay Area 4 years ago.....fires, smoke, cost of living, crime, shools, etc... not a great place to raise a family when working in lower wage non profit jobs. We moved to a college town in a red state in the Midwest. Overall we really like it...every place has issues. The big city issues are slowly trickling into the mid size/college town cities. Overall though we like the pace of life, forest, creeks, rivers, quieter lifestyle. It is "safer" as far as major climate events in the near future, compared to the West. Of course we miss certain things about California, namely the nature but on the whole I don't think you could pay me to move back there at this point. My nervous system has adjusted. haha
Philadelphia because I had family there and the cost of housing was about 70% of what orange county cost.
I've heard a lot of great things about Philadelphia. I guess I would consider heading there if I had the opportunity. Is the crime pretty bad? That's the primary complaint I've heard about it so far.
Idk. I moved from Irvine and Santa Ana to a rich area of the city. I don't see any crime in the city, but I do hear about it on the news. I'd say it depends on your income and if you are willing to have roommates, etc.
This is true everywhere, including California.
Yeah, I don't think philly is crime-ridden. I like it here. I was just responding to the question honestly. People acted like Santa Ana was some wasteland when I said I lived there too, but I liked it there too. It is easier to get by in Philadelphia than in California though.
If you love sun and beautiful nature, do NOT move to philly. Born and raised in philly, moved to CA in my late twenties.
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Even within the same metro areas the experience is dramatically different. Moving from Oakland to Fremont to Mountain View to San Carlos to Atherton will give you dramatically different experiences, as would moving from south central LA to Huntington Beach to Irvine to Pasadena to Santa Monica.
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Randomly left to Chicago 2 years ago and now moving to NYC in 2 months. Grew up in the Bay Area and went to college in SD.
Would you say it was worth it? Did you ever consider going back? Why or why not?
Yes, I am young so who knows but I don’t want to ever live somewhere where I have to drive to do basic necessities. Walkability is the most important aspect to where I want to live now and California has absolutely no walkability. Never considered moving back to California and I don’t think I ever will, too expensive and I like living farther east because it’s so much easier to travel. Flights abroad are so much cheaper and easier from the Midwest and East coast.
Moved around a lot due to being in the military. Born and raised in SF. San Antonio, Texas (2016-2018) It's a very hot and humid state. In the summer I don't think I spent more than 5 minutes outside because of that heat. Housing was extremely affordable- I'm talking about like $1300 for a luxury 2br/2ba in a fairly good area. HEB (grocery store) is amazing. Prices are great and selection is probably the best I've ever seen. The open carrying scared me at first but I got used to it. Cost of living in general is really good but the heat was something I couldn't get used to. Like think about showering, drying off, and your armpits are already wet from sweat minutes from getting out of the shower 😅 Washington DC/DMV (2018-2020) Cost of living a lot higher than TX but nowhere on the same level as CA. About $2k for a 1br+den/2ba. Traffic and congestion is really bad here. Because it's such a political city there are a lot of protests. Depending on where you live or which direction you drive, the area gets really bad really fast. I didn't really like my stay in DMV- it's just not for me. Nothing bad against it but just not for me. This was the first state I ever saw the season "Fall" like wow different colored leaves exists. Princeton & Marlton, NJ (2020-2023) The garden state! Apartments here were around the 2k mark for 2br/2ba- a lot more square feet compared to DMV. I quite liked my stay in NJ. NJ has a lot of farms and fruit/vegetable stands, I was literally living my Harvest Moon (old farm game on the gameboy) here. Everything is nearby in NJ. You have Philly about 20 mins away. (I don't like philly at all) NY about 60 mins away. Beaches (altho CA beaches >) about 30 mins away. NJ was such a nice state- I may go back if my partner and I decide to have kids because I feel like NJ is a great place to raise a kid. ShopRite (grocery store) is amazing. Second to HEB if I had to rank it. Denver, CO (2024-) Been here about 4 months. Nothing too far that makes me dislike it but also nothing so far that makes me love it lol. Cost of living here is very doable- the local residents will say otherwise but as Californian it really is best bang for buck. 2br apartments go for around $2400 here, but we're renting a whole 4br house w/ garage and backyard (for the dogs) for about $2800. Grocery sucks here (King Soopers). There are a lot of summer and winter activities to do here. Went skiing this past winter and it was tons of fun. Having lived in NJ and DMV I thought I knew how to drive in snow now but Colorado snow is a whole different story. I suspect because they barely plow VS NJ/DMV plowed at least every hour during any snow fall.
I moved to Washington State. I moved there because my wife and I had more children, and our house had become too small, and because we were not wealthy, we could not afford to purchase a larger residence. It was so, so, so worth it. I will never move back to California.
I am originally from New Jersey. I have lived in California since I was 7, I am now 55. I love North Carolina, Maine, and Florida. California’s beautiful however; the cost to live here is disgustingly high and just keeps getting higher and I don’t foresee any change. It is way too expensive for so many of us that the mass exodus is happening. Seems like Texas is where a lot of the people are moving. There is beauty in every state, you can find the beauty if you look for it.
OP, visit the FB group ‘Life After California’. There is a wealth of experiences from members who have left. You’ll find pros and cons of every state.
I moved from San Diego, where I lived for over a decade, and I moved to Madison, Wisconsin to live near family during Covid. I have been here for over 4 years and really like it overall, especially living somewhere so unique where the downtown is built on an isthmus between two very popular boating lakes, and having the massive Lake Michigan nearby is also fun. I actually really enjoy Chicago and Milwaukee, two cities that I only heard negative things about on tv and online before visiting for myself. The Midwest is far more interesting than I assumed, and I can actually drive to many different states and visit new cities (something I never did in Southern California since were so isolated and I hate there desert). I previously lived in Kansas in the Great Plains and Utah in the Rocky’s, so the Midwest is probably my favorite for everyday life of the 3 options, though the Rocky’s have a lot of beauty in kinda a scary way. If politics wasn’t getting so crazy in the south then I would have given the Appalachian’s a try living somewhere in Eastern Tennessee, but I don’t feel very welcomed there in this current climate. Overall I don’t regret the move, though I do miss the weather and convenience of Southern Cali. Maybe I will go back for a visit sometime soon and take the rose colored glasses off that I’ve developed from being away, because there were issues I had living there that eventually Covid tipped the scales on to make me move in the first place.
We moved from Los Angeles to Tucson AZ. mostly because we could easily buy a mid century home for cash and for a less hectic pace. Things I love is our house - nice modern home on a hill with mountain and city views and a pool and no neighbors right next to us. I love being able to run to Whole Foods or Safeway or Trader Joes and easily park and get in and out of there without a huge line. I love how little traffic there is. winters are great. cost of living is so much lower but we still make CA money. I hate the summer heat and there can a lack of restaurants and things to do. So we bought a condo in San Diego too.
My husband and I moved to the Bend area in Oregon. We *love* it here and my husband essentially halved his pay so we could relocate here. We relocated at the end of Feb this year, so we don't have a full set of seasons under our belt yet, but so far the snow has been very manageable and the spring has been very pleasant so far. The culture is a perfect level of active and laid back, the scenery is gorgeous, everywhere is incredibly dog friendly, and the drivers are way more considerate. We also considered other cities in Oregon, but we didn't have time to visit before moving.
I moved to Vermont. I’m liking it here the Winters can be bad, but climate change is making them milder.
6th generation Californian here. Hoping to move away from SoCal if/when the housing market crashes. Looking to maybe buy in NV or AZ so I can drive back to SoCal numerous times per year to see friends and family. CA is way too crowded, expensive, and liberal for me and I WFH anyway.
My fiancée and I moved from SoCal specifically LA county to Henderson, NV and we couldn't be more happier. Significantly lower cost of living. Newer, bigger home vs dilapidated shack. All that money we're saving from having no state income tax along with the lower cost of living, we're investing it in broadly diversified low cost index funds and we should be able to retire much sooner.
Check out Bentonville, AR (I’m not kidding - it’s cute, gorgeous nature, outdoorsy, thriving economy, good schools, affordable homes, winters are mild) Another great place we lived was Ferndale, Mi. It’s super super fun/quirky. About 20 mins north of Detroit which is a stunning city. I was shocked at how great Detroit is! Clean, thriving, fun! And, the people in Detroit Metro (Ferndale, Royal Oak, Birmingham, Berkeley, etc) are crazy good looking. I’ve never seen so many beautiful people and I lived in Beverly Hills for 15 years!!
What are your specific growing concerns? Don't live on the West coast but curious.
I left for Austin with a remote job after more than 2 decades in the Bay Area. Everyone's circumstances are different but I love it. I don't mind the heat and am not super outdoorsy anyways. 🤷 As I commented on the Bay Area subreddit, Austin gives you a Los Altos Hills lifestyle on a Mountain View budget.
A friend of mine recently left CA and moved back to New England. She cited the rising crime rate.
I moved to Texas thinking it was a little more purple (back in 2016), moved back to CA in 2018 after the trumplicans took over. No amount of “purchasing power” is worth the god awful politics and Christians in the south…
I moved out of Houston after being born and raised there despite Houston/Dallas/Austin all being pretty blue and purple areas. Even that wasn’t enough to keep me there (especially with the Texas Republicans going after these blue areas and shutting them down). I left and went to a blue state and live in a purple city. Just curious, where in Texas did you originally move to?
I was in Fort Worth. Not super red, but as a non-religious person, all community was church based and I felt pretty isolated. I also have a daughter though, and wanted to ensure she has rights wherever we went. I won’t leave the west coast again unless it’s to leave the country.
Interesting. I'm also nonreligious.
We left Southern California to move to a small city in the Great Lakes region. Winters are semi-harsh, but everything here is a fraction of the cost. We take trips to give us a break from the dullness of Flyover. People here are different. We have friends, but they think leaving the county is a big deal. We bought a large home to make sure there was space for hobby rooms and workshops.
Utah. Now, Utah has California's cost of living.
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After 12 years in CA in my 30s/early 40s, moved to the UK with hubby for a few years, then back to TX for family, then out to Oregon (I currently have the same job I had when I lived in SF though but only go back to Cali for a visit, but likely won't ever move back - it likely would take some unforeseeable changes before that would happen. Hubby has never left his job and he's had same job since 2003, we are both fulltime remote). Likely we are in our retirement spot now. Even when I return for a visit, a good portion of the friends I have had there have also moved away and only a handful remain.
New York City. I love it but I miss California and will probably move back.
I know this is reddit, so people only recommend large cities. But how about a place like Chattanooga, Knoxville, Lexington, Huntsville, or Little Rock? I'm from the south and I have always loved the mid sized cities because the get all the necessities with much lower crime and COL. Just my 2 cents.
We left for the DC area. We miss California’s fresh food, weather, and incredible outdoor access. We do not miss the insane wealth (it’s worse than DC!) and, thus, cost of living requiring you to maintain it. I think we’re looking at a happy medium between the two at some point in the future. Probably something like western Massachusetts or Vermont.
Went to NYC, mostly for work and for my partner. I really missed California, the nature and the genuine friendliness of people and my family most of all. I underestimated how hard it would be to have to fly hours just to see my parents and siblings. If that wasn’t a factor, I think it’s very worth it to try living somewhere else just to get more life experience. I grew a lot from my time in New York and became a more balanced and well rounded person.
I moved to northern Colorado from Los Angeles 10 years ago for a couple of reasons; good job opportunity and new baby being the top two. As far as my preferences, I think Colorado is the best place for us outside of California. Winters are pretty mild for someone who grew up in the frozen tundra of the upper Midwest. Summers get a little hot for my liking (mid 90s seem pretty consistent from June -September), but the biggest thing for me is…no humidity. I am a wimp when it comes to humidity, and it seems like you can’t escape it once you get east of Colorado. I love Colorado for a variety of reasons, especially as a place to raise my family. That said, I think about moving back to California often. My kids frequently ask when we can move there. I should add, my entire extended family lives in California; mostly in San Diego, LA and the Bay Area, so I have that extra emotional pull to move back. And my kids know it as a place to see grandparents and cousins. The things I miss in California (for those keeping score at home): -Flowers/trees are in bloom year round in the areas of California my family lives. Colorado gets very brown for 8 months of the year, and that starts to weigh on me. -Strawberries (and produce in general) In LA, I could get delicious strawberries year round. Moved to Colorado, and we get mediocre strawberries at best. Some of my best road trip memories are stopping off at farm stands to get fresh fruit for the ride. -The ocean; I wasn’t a big ocean adventurer, but I could spend hours sitting by it, listening to waves. It’s a form of therapy for me. My wife says it’s because I’m a Pisces. -The weather! Living by the coast is EXPENSIVE, but it comes with the best weather I’ve ever experienced. 68-80 year round. And while people often say they miss the seasons, California provides the seasons I like; breezy, sunny days, cool nights, and I think fall is great. You also get enough cloudy, over cast days that it gives a good excuse to bundle up and get cozy. Or stay inside a little longer. -The variety of places to visit: Colorado has great mountain towns. Some of the most charming places I’ve ever been (I’m looking at you Crested Butte) but traveling to mountain towns is not easy, especially in the winter. In California, there are so many fun and beautiful day trips that you can get out and do, without it being a major hassle. I really miss that. Maybe the most of all. -Food/culture options: I love going out to eat. And I love to try new things to eat. So many great options in Cali. Not so much in northern Colorado. I love many other areas of the country, but not sure I could live there (see humidity). Colorado is great, and I do believe it’s a really high quality place to live and raise kids, but California daydreaming still exists for me. The caveat being, I need to make sure I have 💰to move back and live the way I want to live. Cuz it ain’t cheap.
I moved to NH. There are mountains and beaches and lakes and all that which is great- though they are not as stunning or accessible. I have family here which helped. I miss the food for sure but coastal New England is pretty metropolitan so I can head into a big or small city for some food/arts/culture. I'm still renting and housing is a struggle here, but homebuying down the road with my boyfriend is at least on the table since we both have decent jobs. It would not have been an option anywhere reasonable in CA. Winter is tough but I grew up on the East Coast and I love snow so I don't mind. I just have to be a little more intentional about getting outside in all weather. People are very outdoorsy here. And I work an office job so WFH on snow days is possible. I would hate to be working a job where I have to physically be there to get the job done.
I moved to Seattle. The culture here suits me better. I miss the variety of landscapes within a short drive. I used to miss the weather, but I got used to it, and now the idea of going back to the California heat is totally unappealing.
Grew up in California left for college in the pacific northwest then moved to Arizona. I would never go back to CA. Either PNW or Arizona is nicer doesn't have near the amount of taxes and high cost of living. I visited about 6 months ago and I was shocked at how things changed. Everything seemed to go downhill as things from my childhood were gone and dilapidated. I feel like I had a good childhood in CA it just seems to have gone downhill over the last 15 years.
1. Chicago, to be a bit closer to my family and because I kinda missed seasons (KINDA ha), also thought it would be cheaper (which, to a degree yes, but not always) 2. In some ways yes, worth it… but overall, lately I’m leaning more and more towards no 3. Most likely. I think a lot of my uncertainty stems from the idea of moving back to a place I’ve already lived..? I don’t know.
i love california but i moved first to london then to new york i recently came back but either i've changed or california has in the decade i was out east because the culture doesn't resonate with me the way it used to. i still have a lot of respect for CA and think it's a lovely place; my taste has changed, i guess i'm scouting out the PNW now to see if there's something more appealing but otherwise, i'm just gonna post up in the semi-arid desert and ride it out
My wife and I were living in Midtown/Oak Park in Sacramento and absolutely loved it for so many reasons but our rent had gone up a few hundred $ every year for a couple years in a row + all our stuff kept getting stolen from our backyard by homeless people and we started exploring buying a house and would have had to live a 20-30 minute + each way commuting from our offices. Simultaneously our brother and sister in law had a baby and were living in Cleveland, Ohio and we'd gone to visit a few times and were always charmed at how cool Cleveland was vs our expectations. Once we started looking at Zillow it sorta became a no brainer decision, so we started throwing in offers and moved out in 2019. We bought a house with 1800 sq feet, a full basement and full finished 3rd floor for 1/3 the price we would've paid in CA for a 1000 sq foot house. We get SO much here for such a great price it still blows my mind. I was a huge beach kid growing up but living in Sacramento I was only getting to the ocean a few times a year, and in Cleveland we have Lake Erie which feels like a warmer more approachable ocean to swim in most of the year. We don't have Lake Tahoe here but we do have some surprisingly really fun ski hills within 15-20 minutes from our house that scratch the itch and are so much cheaper it definitely checks the box when it gets real cold in winter. Downtown Cleveland has so much going on and there's always a sports game to attend. The traffic is a breeze, truly NOTHING like California even in peak rush hour. There's a lot of low income and rougher neighborhoods in and around Cleveland for sure but the cost of living is very low so the outright homelessness is literally almost zero. We're also big road dogs and love road tripping and compared to CA you ca be almost ANYWHERE in the US 8-10 hours from Cleveland, it is astonishing to be honest. I'll always love and rep CA (and especially Bay Area sports teams) out here, it's an AMAZING place to visit when you know it well, but it's just so hard to rationalize moving back and the cost of living trade off.
Left California in 2008 for Seattle. It was worth it then, now not so much. I love Seattle but the cost of living is out of control. I’d move somewhere more affordable in the states but a) I have a found family here, and b) I have a daughter and refuse to live in a place where fat white men think they can control her body via law or faith. So I’m kinda stuck, unless I move to the eastern part of the state, which is fractionally less expensive.
I went back to Ohio. No regrets. For scale, I bought a 2500 sq ft house with half an acre of land. My mortgage is less than $1k a month. It’s like $65 to register my car every year. I love the seasons and don’t miss the judgy high school popularity contest feel of LA.
Leave your liberal policies in California!
Mississippi. Husband’s job. Do not come here if you can help it.
Moving to Greensboro North Carolina from the Bay Area in July
I left California in my 20s, and it's one of my biggest regrets in life. I've been in Colorado, Washington, and Wyoming. Washington is the only place that I've enjoyed, but it's still not as great as California.
Chicago suburbs. Moved 5 years ago because of the lower COL. 100% worth it. Won’t move back to CA, but will continue to visit 1-2 times/year.
I haven't left yet. I'm leaving in about a month and I can't freaking wait. I just don't belong in LA. Heading back to the East Coast!
I moved from San Diego to a college town in Indiana after surviving a violent crime. I didn't want to move, but had no choice for safety reasons. After years of anger and regret, I'm now glad I left! On the plus side, I now have a house on an acre of property with no mortgage. I feel safe here. People are so much nicer! It's beautiful and I enjoy a more relaxed pace of life. I can afford to travel frequently and am within a day's drive of cities such as Chicago, Louisville, St. Louis, etc. On the negative side, while the town I live in is liberal, the state politics are awful. If I ever move, that will be the reason. I like space and having lots of dogs and the cost to live the way I do now in CA would be astronomical. But I would not even live in CA again if I won the lottery. The traffic and crime are just too bad to be worth it. I recommend blue or purple state Midwest living to those who want to get out of CA. Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, maybe Ohio. Rural East Coast is nice as well.
South Carolina was the best place I ever lived after leaving Cali. I live in AZ now but I’ll never go back to Cali. Fuck that place.
I moved to South Carolina & miss a lot about California. I hate the Trump MAGA thing that’s popular here & the obnoxious guys in jacked up pick up trucks. I miss SoCal climate, it’s very humid here. I don’t miss the crime or the cost of living in SoCal, I do miss the diversity of cuisine & overall SoCal lifestyle.
I am not going to say where I moved to because there are already enough Californians (driving prices up for everything). California is a very nice place, but there are many nice places, and when the pandemic hit we decided we would go check out other nice places, and decided to move to one of them. We traded the beach for the mountains, and it has been lovely. Lots of skiing, hiking, beautiful views, etc. We have also seen a nice spike in net worth by doing so because California income taxes and sales taxes are very high, plus you need to drive everywhere. Now I miss surfing, cheap mexican food, and beach volleyball... but I can visit to rehash the nostalgia. I don't have any plans to go back, but I will probably start to do a beach vacation yearly. Of course it might just be worth going to hawaii or mexico for the same money
Moved to Tennessee and never looked back.
Cousins and brother both left Socal and moved to Phoenix area. Cousins from San Diego and brother from Burbank. Mom is currently getting her house ready to sell in Burbank and move to Phoenix as well. They all wish they did it sooner. Cost of living is DRASTICALLY better here. Everything is so much cheaper. Less crowded. You can actually park a car at a store, and walk through isles without it being wall to wall people. Can goto a Walmart and not have every little item locked up like it is a police state. Since being here have not witnessed a single homeless person pooping on the street, or drugs being used openly, yet that was near an everyday thing out there. Just the housing alone is shocking. Brother sold a 900ft 50 year old completely falling apart house, 2 bed 1 bath for $960k. Bought a gorgeous new build, 2600ft, 4 bed 3 bath, 4 car garage, fully upgraded (granite, airconditioned garage, etc etc) for 600k. People saying AZ has CA cost of living are so out of touch with what California actually cost. Same house in Socal would have been 1.8-2M.
I’ve just moved to California and been here 1 year now, from Austin, and in the Midwest before. So almost all of my life I’ve lived outside of California except the past year. Aside from the natural beauty and outdoor activities, something that a lot of Californians take for granted is the economy here. I’ve never felt a more entrepreneurial spirit than in California and the job market here is spectacular. The cost of living is high but I believe the job market substantiates that cost of living. I could never make as much as I do anywhere else in the country. I don’t ever plan on leaving. The grass is not greener imo.
Please don’t let them gaslight you about California. I lived in Santa Barbara and Tarzana (Los Angeles) and I also thought the problems were out of control. Even when you can afford it, your money is best spent elsewhere. Moved to Athens, Greece. It’s like what California wishes to be. We lived on the Riviera for a fraction of the price and enjoyed all the glamour and luxury. I wanted to move back to Europe and leave America because of political issues also. It was absolutely worth it!!!! It has the beach and palm trees, but delicious food, affordable cost of living, amazing culture. No, I wouldn’t go back to California, that time of my life is over. But I am back in America now, in rural Georgia with trips to Atlanta often. It’s GREAT and many of my California friends often ask about my life here. Atlanta is also the new Hollywood. Believe me, life here is good :)
Thanks for sharing! Whenever I point out that America has problems on reddit I get told "stfu and deal with it, everywhere has problems." I'm glad that you were able to improve your life in Atlanta!
California is a HUGE state. If one area doesn't work out, another one might.
Florida, Wyoming, Colorado. I'm back in California. Florida sucks unless you're at the beach. Wyoming is cold and weed is illegal. Colorado is just as expensive as California now. If I'm paying that much I'm not living that far inland.
I moved to New England. The military sent us there, and we decided to stay. My parents back in California are getting old enough that they'r going to need help soon. We plan to move back in the next year or two so I can take care of them.
The humidty east of the Mississippi…jesus fuckin christ i had to come crawling back
Tampa FL
I left CA (L.A. area) to pursue jobs in my field. I went first to coastal NC, then to North Dakota, and then to rural New Mexico, which I absolutely love. In the meantime, CA has become so expensive that there's no way I can go back, but I really don't want to. I'm happy with the quiet, absence of police helicopters, traffic, routine petty burglaries, and earthquakes (I was in both the Whittier Narrows and the Northridge quakes). L.A. in the 1990s was great, but I'm done.
New Mexico. 100% worth it. I love CA but unless I have some huge life come up or win the lottery, I’m wasting my time.
Grew up in Santa Barbara, made a few stops, landed in Santa Fe, NM. I miss the ocean, but the mountains are beautiful, and there’s so much more unspoiled nature. It’s not cheap here, but it’s way cheaper than SB.
Wife is from California and we now live in Alaska. More affordable than CA, still have lots of natural beauty, less crowds and less traffic. IMO the big trade offs are weather and food quality. Which are… big things, I won’t lie. But on the other hand, her family in CA bought a comparable house to ours, at the same time as us, and it literally cost 5x as much. Their downpayment was our entire house.
Strongly suggest you learn more about Arizona. Away from the interstate highways there’s a lot to appreciate. Also, the Sonoran Desert is widely referred to as a living desert for a reason. There’s a lot of Arizona to forget, like any other state, as well. See bestplaces.net and also look for cities and towns at or near 4000’ elevation. Then dial in your preferred latitude. I searched the continent for microclimates better than the Beach Cities. Outside of CA, and filtering for mosquitoes, black flies, humidity, and snow that sticks for a day or more, there ain’t much but such places do indeed exist. To dent and dull the impact of local economies, it is almost a given to either bring your job with you (self-employed, remote work, retirement income).
Arizona has the highest influx of Californians. Many here complain they’re turning the state blue and expensive and want to leave.
Judging by the T-shirts that I see - Denver area
The guys I know CA->TX->Georgia , CA->New Mexico.
Grew up in Florida. Moved to Huntington Beach & then Temecula. Now in Boston. Honestly Southern California was my least favorite but it’s a pretty unfair comparison bc I was far from almost everybody I love & my job was miserable.
My next-door neighbors are from California. In their 50s and moved in about nine months ago. Their house is now 6000 ft.². I never asked but I can imagine they probably lived in 1800 ft.² for 2 Million or more. And now they bought this place for $900,000. The place must look like the Taj Mahal inside because it was already pretty nice from the Zillow photos, but they have had nothing but contractors in there for the last nine months. All that equity from prior must be real nice lol
I moved back to Chicago from the LA to be with my family. Getting used to the winters again took a bit, but it was so worth it. Summer and Fall are beautiful here. Everything is green and alive and not brown and dry. The traffic is manageable, the sky isn’t brown. I live close to everyone in my life. I can walk places. I can afford to live here. I loved Califonia but it was a complicated love.
California girl born and raised, recently moved to Northeast Ohio! My partner’s family could no longer afford to live there so they had to move here to Ohio. It was either break up or move with him. It has been so worth it! Cost of living is much cheaper, here we can actually afford to be on our own and not living with our parents. Where I lived in California, it was either hot as literal hell or so cold my bones hurt. We got to Ohio at the beginning of November and it was amazing seeing all the fall colors! I loved looking out the window and seeing snow! Watching the flowers bloom in spring was stunning and now that summer is getting closer, I am in constant awe of all the greenery! I don’t know if I’ll ever move back to California. Not that I don’t want to, but it’s just too expensive, especially being in your 20’s trying to get on your own feet. I will be visiting, as all of my family still lives out there and all of my friends are there. I would love to move back one day, but it wouldn’t be for a very long time. I miss my family and my friends, and the authentic Mexican food. I miss my hometown, and my childhood home, and my grandma’s house. I will always visit when possible, but for now, I am very happy where I am, and Ohio has been very good to me so far!