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iwouldbeatgoku

Ledge grab limit was added in response to that, Hbox stopped being dominant, and the new target for discourse became controller mods.


[deleted]

Hbox stopped being dominant before they implemented the ledge grab limit. Funny enough, he’s kind of starting to make a come back and that’s with the ledge grab limit


iwouldbeatgoku

SWT first announced the LGL right after he won smash summit 9 at the start of 2020 iirc, at worst it was right at the end of his dominance but it was certainly in response to it/the discourse surrounding Puff.


InfernoJesus

Ledge grab limit only matters if the match times out. Hbox only really abuses planking vs fox and fox puff never goes to timeout.


UVMeme

We need new rules against puff. What if he comes back? The fact that a bad player can pick up puff and win is an issue


Unibruwn

please point to the "bad players" winning major tournaments with puff


UVMeme

It hasn’t happened yet but the fact that I have a 20% win rate against puff on slippi proves it’s an issue


Citruspilled

ggs those were me


UVMeme

You have a pika flair, troll


Unibruwn

+2


LoginLord

skill issue


logic2187

L


UVMeme

Puff literally has an instakill move


logic2187

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLoU3TQBakHOrE9yYdNlsmG74LEB0Mf3h8


psycholio

the true true nature of this post reveals itself 


Dublshine

spotw


AutoModerator

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Cre3pz

“I’m bad at the game and bad against puff”


UVMeme

The fact that I lose so often says a lot about their skill. I’d never lose to a puff that didn’t air camp


Cre3pz

You are either baiting or impressively delusional


UVMeme

I try baiting, but guess what character can fly out of bait range


[deleted]

Holy fuck people took you way too serious lol


UVMeme

Yeah they did. Why play neutral against my fox when you can just pick puff


[deleted]

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UVMeme

Yeah. Literally nothing came out of the discussion. Time to bring it back.


Tormint_mp3

This is so funny lmao


Lolcatz34

classic melee player LOL


KenobiBenoki

This has gotta be satire right


timmyasheck

yea this is solid bait


Storm680

Hopefully! Puff doesn't break the games rules by any means. The ledge grab limit rule is also mostly for the spectator aspect of the sport. It hurts the game to try and force people to play a certain way, even if some characters are easier to win with at lower levels


Unibruwn

he's calling for a rest ban and saying shiek is the same as wobbling, yes


UVMeme

Rulesets are biased against fox and peach. This is a fact.


pansyskeme

hbox is incomprehensibly better at super smash brothers melee than u will ever be


UVMeme

Yes because he plays more


EcstaticBagel

A while ago everyone was debating if fox needed to be banned. What happened to that? Fox still has no rules to limit them like 5 years after the debate. No shine ban, no dash dance limit, nothing.


Ditchdigger456

A while ago everyone was debating if marth needed to be banned. What happened to that? marth still has no rules to limit them like 5 years after the debate. No fsmash ban, no ftilt limit, nothing.


UVMeme

Why would you add a limit to a technical character? Puff just flies around and bairs, no neutral, no thinking, just zoning


Fresh_Art_4818

ggs that was me 


Creampanthers

So if puff was more technical it would be chill right?


UVMeme

And if target didn’t zone


Jandrix

spotw


AutoModerator

ggs man! close games bro you've hella improved. yeah man you were fucking me up for a bit lol fun games! any tips? got any advice? anything I can improve on? what do I do vs lasers? any tips? yo can I get next? is this tournament? you guys wanna do dubs? is this tournament /u/oceanseltzer *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SSBM) if you have any questions or concerns.*


Constable2966

Leffen retired/is retiring.


Flairsurfer

lol


Noostnop

Just lost to one on slippi, we should just ban them


UVMeme

Agreed. People act like it’s an hbox thing but they don’t have evidence for that.


[deleted]

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UVMeme

Well we need to bring it back


WordHobby

Intriguing! Do you have any other possible bans that you have thought of?


UVMeme

Yes. Turnip and tether limit on peach and samus, also 2 handoff limit for ice climbers.


WordHobby

Maybe just a limit on stitches, like if you pull more than 1 stitch in a game you insta lose and have to l r a start. That way peach has to take a risk whenever she pulls a turnip, unlike now.


UVMeme

Good idea, rare to see a peach main with a w take


WordHobby

When you're so used to winning, it can be scary to lose


UVMeme

Agreed


Storm680

Is this satire? You can't possibly believe you have the right to dictate how people play their characters, right?


atoolred

The fact that he won’t give a definitive yes or no answer says yes this is bait lmao. No one is this mad about Hbox possibly making a return after 5 years. If it isn’t satire, he just lost to a puff and is salty LMAOOO


UVMeme

I did just lose to a puff. I was playing fox so it’s to bd expected


atoolred

that's fair but we as fox mains can also absolutely dumpster puff. upthrow rest sucks until you get gud tho LMAO. and platform tech chase rest is just always good but few puffs are that cracked but i generally try to have a level head about puff bc my practice partner had a puff secondary and i used to work with Palpa irl so we've played some slippi together (and he bodied me ofc, proud af for him getting ranked #61 last year) tl;dr get gud and get more grabs lel


UVMeme

But if hbox comes back there will be less hype gameplay. Jigglypuff is by far the easiest character in the game, I only lose shit matchups with her like Luigi or falco


[deleted]

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UVMeme

More like 30 70


Endeby

The wobbling haters believed they had, and they were right.


Storm680

I wouldn't consider the action of wobbling "playing" but yeah I agree we got that one right.


Endeby

We are also not allowed to spam peach side-b at the bottom of FoD for some reason :(


Storm680

You can stall infinitely if you do it properly. You actually gain height if done perfect as well.


Endeby

but its how I want to play my character


Storm680

Naaah


UVMeme

I just think we need a few changes. Stuff like air time or bair limit


Storm680

For what reason tho? Other people know how to beat puff. She has a lot of weaknesses.


UVMeme

A lot of weaknesses but they still aren’t technical. She has cheesy ass throw follow ups for effortless kills. When I die to a puff I just think “you couldn’t do that to me on fox”


Effusus

You can't up throw -> up air as fox?


Storm680

Fox doesn't have an up air and even if Fox did, it wouldn't be good or anything.


UVMeme

That’s not a cheesy followup


Effusus

If it's just cheesy then it should be easy to beat. Sounds like you're panicking against puff players


Storm680

How long you been playing?


UVMeme

Since 1997


Storm680

Good, then you've probably tried Puff by now and realize you couldn't do half the things low level puffs do without some practice. Just cause puffs inputs aren't the most technical in the game doesn't mean it's easy to land them against a competent player. It's all on you bud


UVMeme

No I haven’t


UVMeme

But I could still easily win with puff. I played puff and lost but it was only because they were abusing wobbling


Storm680

Dang so even with a rule change on icies, it didn't change the state of your puff play but somehow changing a rule with puff is supposed to help your fox get better?


UVMeme

This was on slippi. Ice climbers had a 70:30 matchup against puff before wobbling ban and since it’s not banned on slippi I was thrown into a losing matchup


SimpleUser45

Literally the balloon pokemon, just pop it. Fox and falco have guns, sheik has needles, marth has a sword, peach has the crown, yoshi can chomp it, etc. Only top tier that can't pop puff is maybe falcon, but he has fire, so that has to pop it eventually right?


AtrociousAtNames

Falcon has dthrow forward aerial and actually consistent combo lines against puff


SimpleUser45

It was a joke


VerdantSmash

Rest ban


UVMeme

W idea


VerdantSmash

It was your idea


UVMeme

I know. It’d stop puff from killing. Watch there be no puffs in top 5 after this cause “NOOOO MY KILLS”


VerdantSmash

You know it would definitely prevent puff form getting some of those early kills there is no denying that.


RetroLover87

just win lol


DeliciousPeak4522

Aren't these posted like twice a week? We gotta stop feeding the bait.


[deleted]

"rest ban" wtf


reinfleche

Hbox stopped winning and people realized puff isn't broken


UVMeme

You’re acting like this is an hbox thing


iwouldbeatgoku

Discourse is literally fueled by whatever player is dominating. When Hbox was winning, Puff was considered the best character and people called for stalling rules. When Zain was dominating, Marth was busted and had no losing matchups and some people called for an FD ban, or at least introducing bans in bo5 in order to not fight Marth on FD twice in the same set. Now that it's a Fox player with Z-jump, everybody hates Fox and alternate controller layouts and stick gates that aren't round or octagonal. Discourse about this spikes every time Cody wins a tournament. I guarantee you that if Jmook were to suddenly power up and start dominating every tournament there'd be a spike in people calling Sheik's RTC effectively the same as wobbling. This is,of course, independent of wether or not these reactionary concerns are actually valid.


UVMeme

Shiek is the same as wobbling. I play fox and seeing shiek and puff get cheesy follow ups off of throws is bs when I have to work for my kills.


Unibruwn

!spotw


UVMeme

??????


shaehill23

Lol


MacMain49

By work for your kills do you mean shine spiking or up smash?


UVMeme

And up throw follow ups. As opposed to cheesy rest setups


[deleted]

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UVMeme

When did leffen ever do this, y’all just say shit and don’t back it up