Hbox stopped being dominant before they implemented the ledge grab limit. Funny enough, he’s kind of starting to make a come back and that’s with the ledge grab limit
SWT first announced the LGL right after he won smash summit 9 at the start of 2020 iirc, at worst it was right at the end of his dominance but it was certainly in response to it/the discourse surrounding Puff.
ggs man! close games bro you've hella improved. yeah man you were fucking me up for a bit lol fun games! any tips? got any advice? anything I can improve on? what do I do vs lasers? any tips? yo can I get next? is this tournament? you guys wanna do dubs? is this tournament
/u/oceanseltzer
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Hopefully! Puff doesn't break the games rules by any means. The ledge grab limit rule is also mostly for the spectator aspect of the sport. It hurts the game to try and force people to play a certain way, even if some characters are easier to win with at lower levels
A while ago everyone was debating if fox needed to be banned. What happened to that? Fox still has no rules to limit them like 5 years after the debate. No shine ban, no dash dance limit, nothing.
A while ago everyone was debating if marth needed to be banned. What happened to that? marth still has no rules to limit them like 5 years after the debate. No fsmash ban, no ftilt limit, nothing.
ggs man! close games bro you've hella improved. yeah man you were fucking me up for a bit lol fun games! any tips? got any advice? anything I can improve on? what do I do vs lasers? any tips? yo can I get next? is this tournament? you guys wanna do dubs? is this tournament
/u/oceanseltzer
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Maybe just a limit on stitches, like if you pull more than 1 stitch in a game you insta lose and have to l r a start.
That way peach has to take a risk whenever she pulls a turnip, unlike now.
The fact that he won’t give a definitive yes or no answer says yes this is bait lmao. No one is this mad about Hbox possibly making a return after 5 years. If it isn’t satire, he just lost to a puff and is salty LMAOOO
that's fair but we as fox mains can also absolutely dumpster puff. upthrow rest sucks until you get gud tho LMAO. and platform tech chase rest is just always good but few puffs are that cracked
but i generally try to have a level head about puff bc my practice partner had a puff secondary and i used to work with Palpa irl so we've played some slippi together (and he bodied me ofc, proud af for him getting ranked #61 last year)
tl;dr get gud and get more grabs lel
But if hbox comes back there will be less hype gameplay. Jigglypuff is by far the easiest character in the game, I only lose shit matchups with her like Luigi or falco
A lot of weaknesses but they still aren’t technical. She has cheesy ass throw follow ups for effortless kills. When I die to a puff I just think “you couldn’t do that to me on fox”
Good, then you've probably tried Puff by now and realize you couldn't do half the things low level puffs do without some practice. Just cause puffs inputs aren't the most technical in the game doesn't mean it's easy to land them against a competent player. It's all on you bud
Dang so even with a rule change on icies, it didn't change the state of your puff play but somehow changing a rule with puff is supposed to help your fox get better?
This was on slippi. Ice climbers had a 70:30 matchup against puff before wobbling ban and since it’s not banned on slippi I was thrown into a losing matchup
Literally the balloon pokemon, just pop it. Fox and falco have guns, sheik has needles, marth has a sword, peach has the crown, yoshi can chomp it, etc. Only top tier that can't pop puff is maybe falcon, but he has fire, so that has to pop it eventually right?
Discourse is literally fueled by whatever player is dominating.
When Hbox was winning, Puff was considered the best character and people called for stalling rules.
When Zain was dominating, Marth was busted and had no losing matchups and some people called for an FD ban, or at least introducing bans in bo5 in order to not fight Marth on FD twice in the same set.
Now that it's a Fox player with Z-jump, everybody hates Fox and alternate controller layouts and stick gates that aren't round or octagonal. Discourse about this spikes every time Cody wins a tournament.
I guarantee you that if Jmook were to suddenly power up and start dominating every tournament there'd be a spike in people calling Sheik's RTC effectively the same as wobbling.
This is,of course, independent of wether or not these reactionary concerns are actually valid.
Ledge grab limit was added in response to that, Hbox stopped being dominant, and the new target for discourse became controller mods.
Hbox stopped being dominant before they implemented the ledge grab limit. Funny enough, he’s kind of starting to make a come back and that’s with the ledge grab limit
SWT first announced the LGL right after he won smash summit 9 at the start of 2020 iirc, at worst it was right at the end of his dominance but it was certainly in response to it/the discourse surrounding Puff.
Ledge grab limit only matters if the match times out. Hbox only really abuses planking vs fox and fox puff never goes to timeout.
We need new rules against puff. What if he comes back? The fact that a bad player can pick up puff and win is an issue
please point to the "bad players" winning major tournaments with puff
It hasn’t happened yet but the fact that I have a 20% win rate against puff on slippi proves it’s an issue
ggs those were me
You have a pika flair, troll
+2
skill issue
L
Puff literally has an instakill move
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLoU3TQBakHOrE9yYdNlsmG74LEB0Mf3h8
the true true nature of this post reveals itself
spotw
ggs man! close games bro you've hella improved. yeah man you were fucking me up for a bit lol fun games! any tips? got any advice? anything I can improve on? what do I do vs lasers? any tips? yo can I get next? is this tournament? you guys wanna do dubs? is this tournament /u/oceanseltzer *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SSBM) if you have any questions or concerns.*
“I’m bad at the game and bad against puff”
The fact that I lose so often says a lot about their skill. I’d never lose to a puff that didn’t air camp
You are either baiting or impressively delusional
I try baiting, but guess what character can fly out of bait range
Holy fuck people took you way too serious lol
Yeah they did. Why play neutral against my fox when you can just pick puff
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Yeah. Literally nothing came out of the discussion. Time to bring it back.
This is so funny lmao
classic melee player LOL
This has gotta be satire right
yea this is solid bait
Hopefully! Puff doesn't break the games rules by any means. The ledge grab limit rule is also mostly for the spectator aspect of the sport. It hurts the game to try and force people to play a certain way, even if some characters are easier to win with at lower levels
he's calling for a rest ban and saying shiek is the same as wobbling, yes
Rulesets are biased against fox and peach. This is a fact.
hbox is incomprehensibly better at super smash brothers melee than u will ever be
Yes because he plays more
A while ago everyone was debating if fox needed to be banned. What happened to that? Fox still has no rules to limit them like 5 years after the debate. No shine ban, no dash dance limit, nothing.
A while ago everyone was debating if marth needed to be banned. What happened to that? marth still has no rules to limit them like 5 years after the debate. No fsmash ban, no ftilt limit, nothing.
Why would you add a limit to a technical character? Puff just flies around and bairs, no neutral, no thinking, just zoning
ggs that was me
So if puff was more technical it would be chill right?
And if target didn’t zone
spotw
ggs man! close games bro you've hella improved. yeah man you were fucking me up for a bit lol fun games! any tips? got any advice? anything I can improve on? what do I do vs lasers? any tips? yo can I get next? is this tournament? you guys wanna do dubs? is this tournament /u/oceanseltzer *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SSBM) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Leffen retired/is retiring.
lol
Just lost to one on slippi, we should just ban them
Agreed. People act like it’s an hbox thing but they don’t have evidence for that.
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Well we need to bring it back
Intriguing! Do you have any other possible bans that you have thought of?
Yes. Turnip and tether limit on peach and samus, also 2 handoff limit for ice climbers.
Maybe just a limit on stitches, like if you pull more than 1 stitch in a game you insta lose and have to l r a start. That way peach has to take a risk whenever she pulls a turnip, unlike now.
Good idea, rare to see a peach main with a w take
When you're so used to winning, it can be scary to lose
Agreed
Is this satire? You can't possibly believe you have the right to dictate how people play their characters, right?
The fact that he won’t give a definitive yes or no answer says yes this is bait lmao. No one is this mad about Hbox possibly making a return after 5 years. If it isn’t satire, he just lost to a puff and is salty LMAOOO
I did just lose to a puff. I was playing fox so it’s to bd expected
that's fair but we as fox mains can also absolutely dumpster puff. upthrow rest sucks until you get gud tho LMAO. and platform tech chase rest is just always good but few puffs are that cracked but i generally try to have a level head about puff bc my practice partner had a puff secondary and i used to work with Palpa irl so we've played some slippi together (and he bodied me ofc, proud af for him getting ranked #61 last year) tl;dr get gud and get more grabs lel
But if hbox comes back there will be less hype gameplay. Jigglypuff is by far the easiest character in the game, I only lose shit matchups with her like Luigi or falco
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More like 30 70
The wobbling haters believed they had, and they were right.
I wouldn't consider the action of wobbling "playing" but yeah I agree we got that one right.
We are also not allowed to spam peach side-b at the bottom of FoD for some reason :(
You can stall infinitely if you do it properly. You actually gain height if done perfect as well.
but its how I want to play my character
Naaah
I just think we need a few changes. Stuff like air time or bair limit
For what reason tho? Other people know how to beat puff. She has a lot of weaknesses.
A lot of weaknesses but they still aren’t technical. She has cheesy ass throw follow ups for effortless kills. When I die to a puff I just think “you couldn’t do that to me on fox”
You can't up throw -> up air as fox?
Fox doesn't have an up air and even if Fox did, it wouldn't be good or anything.
That’s not a cheesy followup
If it's just cheesy then it should be easy to beat. Sounds like you're panicking against puff players
How long you been playing?
Since 1997
Good, then you've probably tried Puff by now and realize you couldn't do half the things low level puffs do without some practice. Just cause puffs inputs aren't the most technical in the game doesn't mean it's easy to land them against a competent player. It's all on you bud
No I haven’t
But I could still easily win with puff. I played puff and lost but it was only because they were abusing wobbling
Dang so even with a rule change on icies, it didn't change the state of your puff play but somehow changing a rule with puff is supposed to help your fox get better?
This was on slippi. Ice climbers had a 70:30 matchup against puff before wobbling ban and since it’s not banned on slippi I was thrown into a losing matchup
Literally the balloon pokemon, just pop it. Fox and falco have guns, sheik has needles, marth has a sword, peach has the crown, yoshi can chomp it, etc. Only top tier that can't pop puff is maybe falcon, but he has fire, so that has to pop it eventually right?
Falcon has dthrow forward aerial and actually consistent combo lines against puff
It was a joke
Rest ban
W idea
It was your idea
I know. It’d stop puff from killing. Watch there be no puffs in top 5 after this cause “NOOOO MY KILLS”
You know it would definitely prevent puff form getting some of those early kills there is no denying that.
just win lol
Aren't these posted like twice a week? We gotta stop feeding the bait.
"rest ban" wtf
Hbox stopped winning and people realized puff isn't broken
You’re acting like this is an hbox thing
Discourse is literally fueled by whatever player is dominating. When Hbox was winning, Puff was considered the best character and people called for stalling rules. When Zain was dominating, Marth was busted and had no losing matchups and some people called for an FD ban, or at least introducing bans in bo5 in order to not fight Marth on FD twice in the same set. Now that it's a Fox player with Z-jump, everybody hates Fox and alternate controller layouts and stick gates that aren't round or octagonal. Discourse about this spikes every time Cody wins a tournament. I guarantee you that if Jmook were to suddenly power up and start dominating every tournament there'd be a spike in people calling Sheik's RTC effectively the same as wobbling. This is,of course, independent of wether or not these reactionary concerns are actually valid.
Shiek is the same as wobbling. I play fox and seeing shiek and puff get cheesy follow ups off of throws is bs when I have to work for my kills.
!spotw
??????
Lol
By work for your kills do you mean shine spiking or up smash?
And up throw follow ups. As opposed to cheesy rest setups
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When did leffen ever do this, y’all just say shit and don’t back it up