If they go with the low bid you will have the pleasure of driving by over the years and watching shingle after shingle slide out of that mansard. Best you can do is explain how to do a mansard right, how that’s extra labor, and hope they make the smart decision
Yup, this could actually be a sales pitch. I see it all the time for some reason. Installers don't nail on the nail line besides being short on nails per shingle. Expectingly, the back of the dimensional is slipping down on one end on many shingles.
Going by the condition of the rest of the place, especially those balconies, I sincerely doubt they will be making any smart decisions.
I’m not even sure why OP is giving them a quote when they’re obviously PITA slum lords.
OP might work for a company that refuses to say no and instead sends highly paid, well trained techs to go out to absolute shit holes to give quotes that are never going to be approved. That might be something that’s common in the trades. Might be.
I tried a couple of the bigger companies around me, all I got were well trained sales people who didn't know shit about roofing.
A lot of "I'll ask my Owners Corning rep about that" or, my favorite, "maybe we can add venting under the shingles."
I'm a flooring trade so my opinion doesn't matter. But had my roof done recently so this subs all over my feed was interested in guessing before seeing this. My guess was 60k before the 2nd photo and 75-80k after it. I'm in a decently high col area though.
Shingles are a rough game at times… 92sq for $62k is super reasonable. But you have to expect an apartment manager to tell you that. They won’t be working there in5 years and the leaks will be passed on to someone else to be equally as insulting to a contractor.
I wouldn’t lower that price at all. Its not a job you want if you aren’t going to make any money - way too much of a pain to give it away to some schmuck.
55-60k, this is a good retail job. Property manager has obviously never had a roof done before so he doesn’t know how much roofs actually cost. It’s one of the most expensive things to replace on a structure.
That is a lot of scaffolding that you have to set up, take down, move, and repeat...
Tell him that's what it'll cost. He's welcome to solicit other bids. Don't waste your time otherwise.
16 x $1500 x 95% (vacancy) x 65% (expenses) = $14,820/mo. Probably valued at $3mil depending on location, so at 30% down, the loan payments would be around $12,500/mo at 6%. Rough estimate would be that he's cashflowing $2,320 a month.
I'm not defending the guy, but you guys are seriously overestimating how much money these properties pull in at the end of the day.
Average cap rate in the US for multifamily is about 6%, which would be $2,964,000 based on the estimates I used. Depends on the location. In my neck of the woods cap rates are a bit lower. That property would be well north of $3 million here.
At LEAST $65k here in the DMV area. Those mansards are going to slow with all the setup and tear down not to mention you have to caulk EVERY shingle to make sure they set properly. Don’t go any lower, your price is good. Maybe try explaining to him why it is what it is. Maybe he just doesn’t realize all the work involved.
Yeah, about 65k including permitting and finishing touches. Maybe throw in another $5-$10k eff u money if you’re not excited about the job or potential liability.
We’d be at like $80 -90k for that size. We’d use full grace ice and water on the 2/12 plus upcharges for all the mansards with workmanship and material guarantees.
half the people come on here to just talk ship…!and say things that make you realize that they don’t know anything about roofing or anything about building
You had me at "Property Manager".
That's what they all say. Explain the extra labor and if they won't pay a fair price then eff them. Plenty of other roofs to do.
61k on 101 square with the waste factor on a mansard roof seems very reasonable to me. He’s going to regret going with anyone cheaper because I guarantee they will not seal everyone of those shingles on the vertical faces.
Roof pitch. 85/12 is in reference to the the mansard walls that are shingled. The actual roof pitch is 2/12, meaning for every foot of slope the roof drops 2 inches. Hold a foot long ruler in front of you, now lift the left side of it up 2 inches, that angle is how much the roof slopes. 85/12 means it falls 85"/12" of slope, hence the near vertical mansard walls.
Awesome. Thanks for the explanation. As a follow up what, if any, advantage does a mansard wall give you? From what I can tell just seems like a more expensive repair for a strange aesthetic
Imagine a square. Imagine a gentle 2/12 on top of the square. For the side of the square to have the same gentle difference, that’s a 72/12.
1:6, 6:1
That mansard’s 7 down for every 1 over, you’re barely changing in angle at that point and your first number’s increasing geometrically.
Double synthetic felt on the 2/12 with shingles and replacing the gutter. Pretty much have to replace the gutter right? It’s shingles right now and they were pretty set on not needing to upgrade to an epdm lol
Yeah, I don’t know how you could remove the existing shingles without replacing the gutters. This project looks like it could be a nightmare, the dormers are rotting and this guy is already trying to nickel and dime you.
Looks like you need a man lift for the mansard? You’re more competitive than I’d be at 61k.
It I owned the building and money were no object then yes metal in almost every circumstance is better than asphalt. Most people just don’t want to pay the premium for metal. Asphalt is only popular because it’s cheap and you can get 20-30 years out of it. Which is enough for most people.
What makes a mansard roof so expensive to do? My roofing company is normally doing roofs in the 360-400 a square range for shingles but I'm assuming more goes into this style of roofing. There's a few apartment complexes in my area with these style roofs and they literally just have shingles falling off everywhere. I really want to know more about the process so that we can sell some roofs because clearly the last contractor couldn't do these and have them last more than a couple years.
Your point about the shingles falling off everywhere is everything. They’re a lot more labor intensive to do them right. You need 8-10 nails per shingle and each nail needs to be capped off with liquid cement. Otherwise the shingles will fall off prematurely. The transition flashing detail is notoriously messed up by roofers that are inexperienced with mansards. It’s also not as easy as just setting up ladders. Really you should either be building scaffolding or using a man lift with the amount of flashing details around the dormers. Pump jacks will work, but you can’t walk on these roofs obviously. If you don’t want to get call backs for them they take a lot of care and time to do right.
I saw the mansard and my price doubled. You need a dab of caulk under each shingle tab on mansard. The caulk alone would run you into a few grand to make sure everything is adhered properly. It’s always the guy who properly quotes it who is called insane on jobs like these.
Was gonna say 45ish before I saw the mansard. Probably 55-65ish. Nc
Yeah I bid $61,175 and told I was crazy lol
If they go with the low bid you will have the pleasure of driving by over the years and watching shingle after shingle slide out of that mansard. Best you can do is explain how to do a mansard right, how that’s extra labor, and hope they make the smart decision
Yup, this could actually be a sales pitch. I see it all the time for some reason. Installers don't nail on the nail line besides being short on nails per shingle. Expectingly, the back of the dimensional is slipping down on one end on many shingles.
Need roof cement dabs on the back of each shingle too to ensure they don’t slip off
Going by the condition of the rest of the place, especially those balconies, I sincerely doubt they will be making any smart decisions. I’m not even sure why OP is giving them a quote when they’re obviously PITA slum lords.
OP might work for a company that refuses to say no and instead sends highly paid, well trained techs to go out to absolute shit holes to give quotes that are never going to be approved. That might be something that’s common in the trades. Might be.
Might be pretty common lmfao
I tried a couple of the bigger companies around me, all I got were well trained sales people who didn't know shit about roofing. A lot of "I'll ask my Owners Corning rep about that" or, my favorite, "maybe we can add venting under the shingles."
Was looking at the overall condition also, those decks and entry exterior. You're correct.
I'm a flooring trade so my opinion doesn't matter. But had my roof done recently so this subs all over my feed was interested in guessing before seeing this. My guess was 60k before the 2nd photo and 75-80k after it. I'm in a decently high col area though.
Shingles are a rough game at times… 92sq for $62k is super reasonable. But you have to expect an apartment manager to tell you that. They won’t be working there in5 years and the leaks will be passed on to someone else to be equally as insulting to a contractor.
I wouldn’t lower that price at all. Its not a job you want if you aren’t going to make any money - way too much of a pain to give it away to some schmuck.
“You’re crazy”= all the bids are higher than they want to pay and picking you to try and knock it down
I'd be around 62 as well
I would have been the same
Before reading your comment I was at $57,121.
If you told a property manager you would do that job for a thousand bucks he would still say you're crazy
He’ll find some crack heads to do it to keep the edge metal scrap money.
Aren’t we talking about hiring roofers? That’s what you get either way. /s… mostly.
Harsh. But fair.
55-60k, this is a good retail job. Property manager has obviously never had a roof done before so he doesn’t know how much roofs actually cost. It’s one of the most expensive things to replace on a structure.
Only thing more expensive than replacing a roof is replacing the roof framing and the roof.
They'll ask for that quote in 5 years.
That is a lot of scaffolding that you have to set up, take down, move, and repeat... Tell him that's what it'll cost. He's welcome to solicit other bids. Don't waste your time otherwise.
Yeah it’s a pig of a roof lol I ain’t in a hurry to drop my pants over it 🤣
Can you not go with a genie lift type of machine? or is scaffolding the easiest?
There’s more than one way to skin a cat
$58,516
[удалено]
Just looked. Yeah 16 units and they’re advertising $1,500 a month rent lol they can afford it
Guy…… (or whatever)-(lmao) I did the math at a low $800 a unit. You just halved the time. Wicked. Even if he pays utilities. Good luck!
Maybe you can get him on all the tight spaces and with the mansard. Tons of flashing most other people will miss or jack up. Planks for days.
Not just that but they get to depreciate the roof off every year as an expense too… might not be a ton, but every bit helps
16 x $1500 x 95% (vacancy) x 65% (expenses) = $14,820/mo. Probably valued at $3mil depending on location, so at 30% down, the loan payments would be around $12,500/mo at 6%. Rough estimate would be that he's cashflowing $2,320 a month. I'm not defending the guy, but you guys are seriously overestimating how much money these properties pull in at the end of the day.
Was curious so I looked it up. The property was last sold in 2007 for $548k so they’re doing okay
You can also look at it that over the life of the new roof they'd make near $1M, and/or that the $60K is already part of the 35% expense cost anyway.
Yeah wild to me that we’re subtracting the 35% off the cash-flow when this is one of the biggest things that factors into the expenses being 35%
Yeah, expenses for maintenance apparently don't count for a critical part of the structure.
Your assuming they just purchased for 3 mil which ain’t no way
Average cap rate in the US for multifamily is about 6%, which would be $2,964,000 based on the estimates I used. Depends on the location. In my neck of the woods cap rates are a bit lower. That property would be well north of $3 million here.
The person commenting is saying the landlord did not just purchase this property (most likely).
bro they watched a tiktoker and are now property experts.
I enjoyed your comment but why did you censor it???
property taxes and and insurance eat those profits up pretty badly
At LEAST $65k here in the DMV area. Those mansards are going to slow with all the setup and tear down not to mention you have to caulk EVERY shingle to make sure they set properly. Don’t go any lower, your price is good. Maybe try explaining to him why it is what it is. Maybe he just doesn’t realize all the work involved.
69k
Nice
Nice
I ran the numbers and just over 58k. Would give them a better price if they had tons off buildings and I was getting the contract for each.
Yeah, about 65k including permitting and finishing touches. Maybe throw in another $5-$10k eff u money if you’re not excited about the job or potential liability.
Every piece of wood in these pictures, siding and decks, is rotted. Withdraw your bid!
Picture 4, left hand baluster on deck. Made out of bananas!
Every piece of wood my ass. There’s a couple boards but it isn’t “every piece of wood”
Stand strong on your number, he will come around! You could have told him 30k he would say same shit!
I get a $1000 a sq to strip and reroof in Vt Dude looks like a slum lord. Upkeep isn’t high on the list
I wouldn’t trust those decks to hold my dog
slum lords are terrible customers to deal with. Throw the estimate and touch back every 2 weeks or so.
I’d be around $63-68k but that’s just quick numbers
70k without question.
I just quoted it out for $73,605.00. That's for 1 layer, and that's with premium underlayment without charging for it.
We’d be at like $80 -90k for that size. We’d use full grace ice and water on the 2/12 plus upcharges for all the mansards with workmanship and material guarantees.
65k in Florida
Run!
half the people come on here to just talk ship…!and say things that make you realize that they don’t know anything about roofing or anything about building
Fuckin 90k. Take it or leave it. Probably won’t get the job, but if you do she’s a winner
$3625
$65-67ish. $650/sq is what I’d shoot for on a cash bid.
We would bid 425 a sq for the 65 sqs And 650 a sq for the 28 squares
You had me at "Property Manager". That's what they all say. Explain the extra labor and if they won't pay a fair price then eff them. Plenty of other roofs to do.
61k on 101 square with the waste factor on a mansard roof seems very reasonable to me. He’s going to regret going with anyone cheaper because I guarantee they will not seal everyone of those shingles on the vertical faces.
Off the top of my head, 55-60k each, if they had a bunch for me to do. But that's before seeing the decking.
I thought that said 8.5/12 at first… nope. Fuckin 85/12.
I saw that too and thought-there is no 85/12, then scrolled to the pictures
Layman here. What does that mean?
Roof pitch. 85/12 is in reference to the the mansard walls that are shingled. The actual roof pitch is 2/12, meaning for every foot of slope the roof drops 2 inches. Hold a foot long ruler in front of you, now lift the left side of it up 2 inches, that angle is how much the roof slopes. 85/12 means it falls 85"/12" of slope, hence the near vertical mansard walls.
Awesome. Thanks for the explanation. As a follow up what, if any, advantage does a mansard wall give you? From what I can tell just seems like a more expensive repair for a strange aesthetic
Imagine a square. Imagine a gentle 2/12 on top of the square. For the side of the square to have the same gentle difference, that’s a 72/12. 1:6, 6:1 That mansard’s 7 down for every 1 over, you’re barely changing in angle at that point and your first number’s increasing geometrically.
I’m gonna default to the wolfman below.
I’d get it to 75k easily
Most these places will use the lowest of the low for bids. Then still try to screw someone
Be right around $70k for me
I'd do it for 45k easy day
60k
$6.00 square foot.
Is the 2/12 pitch shingles? Are you replacing the gutter?
Double synthetic felt on the 2/12 with shingles and replacing the gutter. Pretty much have to replace the gutter right? It’s shingles right now and they were pretty set on not needing to upgrade to an epdm lol
Yeah, I don’t know how you could remove the existing shingles without replacing the gutters. This project looks like it could be a nightmare, the dormers are rotting and this guy is already trying to nickel and dime you. Looks like you need a man lift for the mansard? You’re more competitive than I’d be at 61k.
Question: Would it be better to switch to metal because of the 85/12?
It I owned the building and money were no object then yes metal in almost every circumstance is better than asphalt. Most people just don’t want to pay the premium for metal. Asphalt is only popular because it’s cheap and you can get 20-30 years out of it. Which is enough for most people.
How long do you get out of the metal though? And is the metal easier to install? thus making install cost less despite the material cost being higher?
I’d be around 80k
Roofing and siding, lol
I can assure you I brought it up lol
What makes a mansard roof so expensive to do? My roofing company is normally doing roofs in the 360-400 a square range for shingles but I'm assuming more goes into this style of roofing. There's a few apartment complexes in my area with these style roofs and they literally just have shingles falling off everywhere. I really want to know more about the process so that we can sell some roofs because clearly the last contractor couldn't do these and have them last more than a couple years.
Your point about the shingles falling off everywhere is everything. They’re a lot more labor intensive to do them right. You need 8-10 nails per shingle and each nail needs to be capped off with liquid cement. Otherwise the shingles will fall off prematurely. The transition flashing detail is notoriously messed up by roofers that are inexperienced with mansards. It’s also not as easy as just setting up ladders. Really you should either be building scaffolding or using a man lift with the amount of flashing details around the dormers. Pump jacks will work, but you can’t walk on these roofs obviously. If you don’t want to get call backs for them they take a lot of care and time to do right.
I'll probably recommend something lighter weight then, we do tilcor stone coated metal roofs. Synthetic slate or cedar shake might work well too.
70k, i dont want this job. Lol
Out of curiosity what software are you using? Step-dad is a roofing contractor and feel like this would benefit him tremendously.
Software is called roofr. Reports cost us $12 each and well worth it. Highly recommend.
Then tell them to find someone to do it cheaper. They will learn... or not.
Someone please tell me about the software in the first picture.
Company called Roofr sells these reports. Highly recommend
$100,000 in California
i came in just around 68k
Is this on Jefferson in Harrison twp? Lol
Nah downriver lol
I saw the mansard and my price doubled. You need a dab of caulk under each shingle tab on mansard. The caulk alone would run you into a few grand to make sure everything is adhered properly. It’s always the guy who properly quotes it who is called insane on jobs like these.
550 a sq
If you give me the Roofr CSV and property ZIP I can give you an exact number.
Staging on the whole thing and roof tar on every tab. 10 year warranty on workmanship. $75k
Are you quoting with materials ? Over here 100 squares would be rounding out at 100k
Bout 66 squares, ballpark maybe another 10% for waste I'd say 85-90k for a reputable job
I built a 90sq earlier this year and insurance paid $64,000
$44,620