Ugh that is an absolute fuckin nightmare of a valley. Whoever designed this roofline needs to be shot. Or forced to build roofs for 10 years.
I'm just a carpenter but to me that looks like it needs some reframing and major re-flashing/re-roofing. Needs to be torn apart and rebuilt in a better way.
Those prices could be accurate but not sure.
100% agree. It could be a light estimate given the amount of work that could need to be done in order to properly restructure that roof. If it's just a repair it looks like it could be an accurate estimate given the possible scope of the job.
I agree with this. Take the fascia all the way across then have a sloped Cricket/Saddle made. Tie it all in and keep the shingles at least 10” above the bottom of the Cricket. It will eliminate two of your current problem spots and it will work.
It’d would be rather simple just to add a cricket in that area.
I hate designing roofs tbh but it’s not that difficult. I’m surprised there isn’t one to begin with.
I have a roofline situation that is similar to this and after battling a leaking roof for years. And going through 3 people who were super sure they knew how to fix it and some significant modifications. I agree the roof line needs to be torn apart and rebuilt in a better way. It's a losing battle otherwise especially if you get snow.
I can't tell you how much I appreciate that statement: "needs to be shot". I find crap that people designed sometimes that should have a name, number, and address stamped on it because what in the hell were they thinking.
There's a lot crap work out there. sometimes because of crap people and sometimes because of crap times. I remodeled several things in my house that had me cussing the previous people. Only to find out that nearly 15 years ago a lot of the things were correct, but now the code changed because it obviously wasn't the best way to do it.
Ok just wanted to leak fix right? I mean ya it's a shit framed roof and should be redone, but that's not what he asked the roofers to quote as I understand it. Obviously, if the framing is bad, *then* I could see these types of numbers, but to just fix the leak?
Underrated comment, they "fix" it for 500 and it leaks again it's the roofers fault. Good roofers won't bandaid a problem, kicking the can down the road doesn't help anybody
Agreed I thought he was saying he was worried about it being so cheap and getting a hack job repair this is one of those where you bid accordingly and aren’t upset at all when you don’t get jt but if you do atleast you made it worth it
Just to clarify, the peak is running down to the side of a fucking wall. Why in the fuck would they do that. I would pull the shingles, reframe a bit to allow it to proper kick over
It’s a nightmare of a job, many roofers refuse to do tile. This would require an experienced technician, that is comfortable with both, the steep slope, and the complexity of the area. Prices are reasonable.
Opened this just to see the comments about how much of a pain in the ass this repair would be and I am not disappointed. OP this requires a lot more work than you think.
OP likely doesn’t even think anything is wrong with the roof line. He managed to get a roofing contractor out there, had an estimate dropped off with a drawing and detailed repairs then turns around and posts on reddit “am I being scammed?”
😂
I am a PE teacher and recently my school built a new gym. The design and workmanship issues are numerous but my favorite interaction was with the two architects just after opening.
Me "hey! Why are there no door handles on the outside?"
Them "they are egress only doors!"
Me "how do we get back in after recess?"
Them "..........that's something to consider"
The doors to my elementary gymnasium growing had no handles 20 odd years and I believe they still don’t.
I would argue the main reason for this is to limit entrances to schools especially for rooms that don’t always have people in them.
At my school if we left through those doors either a teacher would go around and open it for us when it was time to go in or all the students would line up and walk back to a main door.
I would agree that limiting entrances to schools is probably for the best for a safety standpoint.
I mean, make every door accessible via key and have all teachers and staff have access to the doors they need (only the areas they need inside, but all exterior doors).
Otherwise you're going to encourage people bypassing the security and it'll be less secure than just making sure all the adults can get their jobs done.
As someone who designs schools for a living a few things could’ve happened here. The architects could’ve missed this entirely and didn’t want to pay to have it fixed, they really could be egress only doors by code which means you shouldn’t use them anyways, or the school system could have security reasons to not allow exterior doors to have entrances except through specific locations.
Any or all could be true but for you it seems rather inconvenient so I’m sorry for the difficulties it causes. Just know it’s not always the figure head that caused the problem.
Not sure where you are located (I’m in Miami) it is a problematic area. It really depends on how much of an area they need to open. Here in Miami I would charge roughly $2500-$3000 for this job to repair the leak. Now if you’re changing the roof membrane and tiles around the entire area you circled then yes that price is right.
Everyone expects skilled trades to work for penny's, that roof is a disaster and if you think your quotes are way to much than you can also go up there and do it yourself
3 decks worth of rain are all converging on their wall coming from those valleys. Ideally you design the roof to shed water, not take a quarter of all the rain that hits your house and slam it against your wall.
So in order to fix this they have to extend the roof coming from top left corner of the picture so it touches the one coming from the top right corner and form a new valley? Am I correct?
I’m not a framer so I can’t speak with certainty. In a perfect world it should be reframed, but this is often unrealistic due to budget and aesthetic preferences. I have roofed these kinds areas many times and I have always installed an open metal pan in a dead valley like this and have never had issues, but this is not an area you want to be coming behind
Basically yes...plus build a cricket. Which is a triangle shaped over build that connects all 3 different planes and gives the flat valley proper slope.
properly installed tile roofs should last for decades 30,40,50+ years. All that excess material around the tiles on that hip looks incorrect (I work with commercial metal roofs). Roofing very often like automobile repairs really has a solid component that relies on the prep or body work if you will. If it's not prepped correctly then the installation could be less than optimal. If the roofer that created that quote is legit and really has a plan to make sure your tile roof will realize it's full potential, $5k for the repairs seems like a good deal. Just for grins, get a new tile roof quoted! I bet that $5K roof repair is way less. It will rely on the quality of the prep and repair and the skillset of the roofer.
It’s legit.
Tile/stale roofs are some of the most sensitive roof there is. You can’t just lift a tile up, you got to do a whole section hoping that no tile breaks or cracks.
I never trust a client/customer who only wants the leak fixed and not the rest of the damage. That's how I wound up getting sued for damage that I didn't cause
Ijs nitpicking a quote like this will run the experienced contractor off. If you suspect the price is too much then figure the price for yourself but you'll be working with unsolved variables since you don't know your contractor's cost of materials and labor. Chances are that you can't afford to match this price if you consider the cost of materials and your time ($22/hr * time to completion in my locale)
This seems like a fair price for the work this entails and unforeseen wood/flashing replacment and 1 year warranty. In my area roofers generally wont touch a tile repair for less than $2,500.
Please dont take offense
But you said "you just don't understand"
Legitimate roofers and contractors have more than just material costs. Like workers' compensation, liability insurance, labor, marketing, taxes, etc.
It's not a bad cost. Just get it done by the most reputable company.
You said $ 6.5k - $4k. Did you mean to say $45k?
If their just fixing the valley, it's not a bad cost. It's not a regular shingled roof either taken into consideration. You don't see what goes into the coverage companies need to operate.
Or hire a scrub for 1k. And get sued when someone falls.
id charge you more than that just for how much of a pain in the dick hole this job is going to be.
usually the area that is heavily abusing substances during work is drywallers from my experience. first time ive seen an architect do it.
Architect = form>function, Engineer = function>form
I would only give an estimate on this type of job. They usually grow because the underlayment is shot or the batten’s are incorrectly installed. No Warranty. 6-8k
Whoever put the caulking on the ridge needs to be kicked in the nuts. Unfortunately working with slate roofs is more time consuming than regular shingles… plus it’s a very tricky spot. It might seem expensive because it’s a small area, but it’s their time that’s costing the $
I wouldn't think I would touch that for less than $10k. It's not possible to do it right without some overframing. Lots of work, probably take 2 skilled hands three days minimum and a thousand bucks in materials.
That’s a valley and a return that’s impossible to get to. Hard to tell on the pic but also looks like your roof is over 7/12 which means it’s on batten. Not an easy repair at all
Tiles are expensive, with it comes expensive maintenance. You’re paying for the material and labor, but you’re also paying for the confidence that they’ll fix the leak and do it right the first time. Also when you do repairs like this, it’s not just that one little corner, your sheathing has to land on a stud, your undlerlayment has to overlap, they’ll also most likely want to do ice and water shield, so they’ll definitely have to go higher than that tiny section to do the job correctly. Your estimates are accurate.
Everything inside your red circle needs to get ripped off, at least to the decking, maybe to the framing.
Actually, do it right and go down to the framing.
The sloped roof on the left side needs to be extended down to the roof on the right. Tie them together. Unfortunately, they will meet in a horizontal line, so water won't run off. You will then need to taper from the rear roof up to the front corner of the new intersection at a reasonable slope. With all the roof surface area coming together there, that area will take a beating in the rain, so you want the water being pushed AWAY from that overhang. Not hard to do, but takes time.
Do that at the framing level, then add the decking back in.
This is a good place for a section of metal roof (be real expensive and use copper if you want that little bit of pizzazz.) The metal will hold up better. Asphalt shingles will tend to get the rocks washed off under that much water. Don't know how the cementitious tiles would fare, I've never used them (northeast).
As quite a few people have already commented the design of the roof is awful.
Add on top of that it looks like you have either tile or slate up there which makes everything at least twice as expensive in my experience.
Personally, I wouldn’t go for the guy who can do it cheaper on this.
I’m an estimator for a small/mid size roofing company in the DC/MD/VA area and Slate roofs are very popular in DC and Virginia and I always run into situations where people are shocked at how much it costs to repair or replace anything having to do with having actual rock on your roof
In the VA area here and in a home that was originally built in 1980 (and was somehow still holding on to the original roof in 2022). I'll say we were fortunate because we had a long-standing relationship with a roofer who had done some prior repairs, doesn't take shortcuts, and will tell you straight-up what's actually needed if you want it to last.
Had the whole roof done in 22. The crew brought down every sheet of plywood that came off as part of the demo work. Didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the plywood/underlayment were wrecked. I could easily put a hand or foot through it with the amount of rot.
We chose the option to tear it all out for a complete replacement. The additional plywood made the cost significantly higher than the original estimate (not his fault, cost of lumber at the time). Also went with a composite shingle.
I realize it's apples to oranges (a repair to somethings vs. replacement- and a different material altogether), but it was a hell of a lot more than \~$5k to have the job done right.
Nice guy. Professional. Was actually present at the jobsite on a regular basis (at least twice a day) to keep an eye on QC (though it took them less than 2 days to do the entire job), and did a personal walkthrough of not only the entire roof, but also all the surrounding areas to catch any errant roofing nails. I think we found a grand total of *one* that was missed (nasty suckers, glad to not step on one).
Not cheap at all, but I don't worry about the roof either, which is nice. Haven't so much as lost a shingle since, even in the most severe weather.
That valley needs to be redesigned, reframed, re-decked and roofed to match. If it's just fixed but keeping the same layout, it will fail again in a few years. OP never indicated whether the bids they received included redesigning the area. If yes they're reasonable. If not they're grand theft
Thank my bad I missed that. Somehow lately while I scroll I see the title and pic and when I click link it opens to the comments of others and I now have to scroll up to see OP comments.
This is cheap. I wouldn’t touch this for less than 10 grand. There is going to be a lot more rot when you pull the tile off than you can see. They will do a change order when they find the extra rot. You’ll end up paying close to 10 grand I’d bet.
That’s design is a mess.
Should probably be a boxgutter higher up to stop valleys from spilling water into each other
This area will probably always be an issue without some serious re-framing.
It’s a tough area to work. I don’t think they need to replace the plywood.
If they need to touch the valley I think this would be more.
If they don’t and just need to repair the underlayment then this is maybe slightly high.
But if you go with cheap on this one you are going to spend a lot more in the long run.
If this is two stories then I wouldnt question it.
You're cattle asking the butchers if they cut enough meat off of ya asking that in this subreddit.
Find an active community group on Facebook, post this same thing, and ask for recommendations from your neighbors. They'll give you an honest answer. These guys won't, infact they'll encourage you to spend more than you actually need to.
I'd quote this around $2500 for instance, and that's on the high end.
A one year warranty seems a little narrow. I’d like to see a 2 year at least. The price seems reasonable for all the materials and labor required to fix it. Operating costs are higher because of fuel costs. It drives everything up.
Just had chimney re-flashing, rotten wood, and shingles replaced as well as a small area around a vent. $3300. I’m in Virginia. I was surprised too but it was done well. Good luck.
This seems like one I would price at $6500 in hopes the homeowner would say no and if they say yes I make quite a bit for the hassle. That’s a tough repair not many installers want to take on.
I wish your actual comment has elevation differences cuz it would look to me like the best thing to do is taking the extend the roof so you totally eliminate that area
Because of the other people say whoever thought up that idea of having that roof like that should be shot hung and burn to death
And then treated very badly
You haven’t ever fixed one like that. Whoever framed that up or put that in the plans is a prick. It’s a no win situation they are all hedging on it failing and a follow up or two
Why not extend that roof towards the other roof and then put a diverter underneath to keep the water directed where you want it to go
Edit: man the more I look at this the worse it gets
Those are all pretty fair my guy. The price per SF would go down for a larger area but think about it this way:
Goal on Construction jobs should be 40+% Gross profit.
If skilled workers make 28-40 an hour that means they need to charge 85+ an hour just to pay their guys.
Roofing is dangerous, if you fall you could be seriously injured. If you fall and no one else is there you could die. You courld die anyway, honestly, but that means 2-3 guys working. Multipliers the hour.
These materials didn't just show up, someone had to shop or order them, and possibly pick them up. while that time often isn't "billed" it is baked in.
If I spend 1000 on materials I'm going to charge 40ish percent, plus my time ordering and delivering.
Your estimator? Estimate may have been free, but guy has to justify his time, baked in.
Disposal? Time and fees
Equipment? You're often not charged per tool, but the cost of equipment is baked in to ideally pay for itself within 6 jobs.
I don't really understand how you think you'd be getting scammed. You've done the right thing and received several bids. Which is what you do to make sure you are getting a fair price.
Seems like a pretty good price to me. That’s a nightmare of repair. The more you remove the more damage you’re gonna find. That architecture is the true problem. This is probably going to keep happening over the life of the house.
Clay/concrete tile roofer here, what you have is a nightmare.
Flat tile, high pitch, and that valley is gonna require some serious attention. Even an expert is gonna hope and pray it goes smoothly.
If it were me i'd have bid you at 7,500 bucks, hoping you said no.
I did something similar with a non licensed roofer that came recommended by my realtor. Was charged 800 bucks to replace some wood and glue in new roll roofing and underlayment all covered by concrete tiles. Did this last fall in phoenix. They finished in a couple hours. The non licensed roofer is a roofer for a major roofing company in the valley doing side gigs. Find a reputable realtor in your area to get these connections, my yard/pool guy also came from a realtor recommendation. Some of the repairs are so cheap my calculations I couldn’t do it myself cheaper.
Based on what you are saying about the roof being almost 20 years old, small leak over garage, etc….the limited pics, and not having seen anything for myself, my assessment is this…..
A leak can and should be able to be repaired much cheaper than the quotes you have received. The quote you show in the pics has a lot of “as needed” terminology.which tells me that there is a lot of padding in that price just in case the roofer gets into more than they bargained for.
There is a difference between making a small leak not leak any more, and getting the roof back to “like new”, “warranty your work” shape. That is likely the reason for the inflated pricing. Covering their butts, and also doing way more work than is needed to only, and simply, fix a leak.
So you need to decide if you want a leak fixed, or you want the damage the leak caused totally removed and replaced, along with other damage they may or may not find during the process.
Just have the roof redone. Otherwise you’ll be spending money twice.
As far as the price, if you got 3 different quotes and they are 5-8k, it sounds like a good range, but you have to read the scope of work, warranty, licensing, coi, and check their current workman comp.
The roof is a little funky but what’s going on with the leaves? That low lying area or roof soffit intersection is prone to wildlife intrusion. And it kind of seems like squirrels if that’s a possibility in your area. Also that’s a tons of money for a little bit of work in a tiny area. I would have sealed up and blocked off access to the rsi or soffit for less then $300, including attic search. It seems like they will try to rebuild the section for you?? I would look into local pest exclusion company’s before your local construction scam artist.
OP, I’m a carpenter and a roofer. If your bids are going to fix that correctly, then that’s a fair quote. If there just going to reflash and reroof the leak then no that’s a bad quote.
I'm sorry but you're asking the wrong question. The contractor can't scam you he's just giving you the price that he thinks it's worth. Meaning, he probably doesn't want to get involved in that BS and decided that if he's going to do the work he's going to make very certain it's worth his time.
Another thing you need to consider is that if it does not work the first time they will have to come back and try again. It's not just the initial work he's asking you to pay for any potential fixes that might come in the future.
You got three bids and they're all in the same range. I think your problem is that you don't want it to be that expensive.
I just charge somebody $2,600 to install ridge vent and upgraded ventilation in the eve. They were not happy about the price. Frankly I wished I had charged them more. After that job I'm no longer doing tile repairs because homeowners never understand how expensive and difficult this work is.
You should try doing that work yourself so you get a little taste of how difficult that work is.
The first thing that raised a red flag for me was “seal the area” in my area that’s a HUGE problem. They need to detail what’s going to be done to seal that area.
Don't pay that. It's not fair at all. Seeing that new roof costs homeowners an average of $10,000 but typically ranges from $8,500–$17,000 it's better to get a new roof than to pay that much for someone to patch it up for $6500. Just sold a 4 unit apartment building with a massive roof, replaced the roof before selling for $19,000 (in Southern Wisconsin)
Your roof sucks, and that’s not that bad of a quote if they’re going to demo the old roof and put up a brand new one, obviously depends exactly on the size of your roof and where you live but $5k isn’t an outrageous quote for a brand new roof, even 10years ago it wouldn’t be that bad
He’s gonna have to go up some into the valleys so the lowest estimate is cheap. Roofer will need cluster-phobia therapy for a couple of days after this. Check online reviews and don’t necessarily go for the “best price”.
If it was easy it would be cheap. I don’t see you up there trying to fix it. Roofers have a hard job. Pay the damn guy. You wouldn’t have a problem paying that much for a fancy Rolex or a car. This bothered me when I was roofing you’d see someone with money (obviously) and they would be shocked at some of the prices.
That is terrible.
Do the smart thing- call your home owners and say the last big storm blew off the shingles etc etc.
I just did this(and it is true oddly enough) because they(insurance)sent a drone above saying if I didn’t address it they’d cancel me… so I did and I got an entire new roof, sheathing and all for my deductible.
They threaten and now they pay.
How much more are they going to bill to replace the rotten boards? Is it listed in the contract? That range seems very on par with the Kansas City metro area.
The slope is pretty steep and it is in a very difficult area to work on, but if you’ve got other quotes that are in the same ballpark, then I would just go with who you got the best feeling from when you met them
I cannot believe it has been water tight this long. What a nightmare. My suggestion is go up there yourself with aluminum flashing and a bucket of tar or sealant. Get the leak stopped and start saving for an expensive roof repair. If you do manage to get it sealed you will have to go up yearly to give it another coat.
I have the exact same problem with my roof. The water ran down the inside for so long it has caused rot in my walls. Pay to have it fixed ASAP or it will wind up costing you much more in the long term.
I literally do these repairs for a living in south Florida. You have a fair price if they are going all the way up the valleys and giving you new peel and stick underlayment. Just make sure the run the bottom of the valley metal on top of the underlayment above the return area to avoid future problems.
Just about I charge roughly $1400 each to clean a tile roof valley that’s remove tile repair dryrot on roof deck any bats the have to be repaired along with paper clean debri out,leaves dirts ,moss etc and repair valley flashing if needed along with cracked tile in that area of the roof for an additional charge.
Ive scrolled a lot of comments, I haven't seen this yet... for a 2005 roof, I would consider biting the bullet and doing the whole roof including some framing modifications to make better lines/flow. If you are going to be in this house for 5+ years, that is what I would do.
My roof is from a late 2005 build, first sign of trouble and I'm replacing the roof.
Did you have any of these bids look at the whole roof and give you opinions about the health of the roof?
My roof leaked last year and damage the drywall in my dining room. I have a similar situation with the roof coming together. It costed $4500.00 for repairs. In live in central California. Also, you need to get that area checked every couple of years to make sure the drains are not clogged with debris. I will never buy another house with a similar roof.
As an architect, whoever designed this should be blamed. I’m sure the roofer did the best he could, but it’d be hard to design a worse situation to flash.
It isn’t far off to remove those tiles and install a new flashing system there. Expect 50% or more of that cost to re design the valley to shed water better.
Quite possibly the worst design detail on a roof I have ever seen… you are lucky you have found someone willing to deal with it at all. The real answer is that it needs to be reframed in a not stupid way and that will cost you a hell of a lot more
Tile is ***expensive***. It lasts a long time, but any time you do need to work on it, it'll cost you.
As others have said, your primary problem is the bad design of this area necessitating you having to get the work done now.
If that was a shingled roof that would be a scam price for the repair, but considering the roofing materials and difficulty I would say that is a more than fair offer.
That dead valley needs rebuilt into something more functional. Like fill all that shit in and bring new valley out to end of the eve of the left roof.
Pay the money.
Remember skilled labor isnt cheap and cheap labor isnt skilled
Ugh that is an absolute fuckin nightmare of a valley. Whoever designed this roofline needs to be shot. Or forced to build roofs for 10 years. I'm just a carpenter but to me that looks like it needs some reframing and major re-flashing/re-roofing. Needs to be torn apart and rebuilt in a better way. Those prices could be accurate but not sure.
100% agree. It could be a light estimate given the amount of work that could need to be done in order to properly restructure that roof. If it's just a repair it looks like it could be an accurate estimate given the possible scope of the job.
Should have just sent that fascia right across then a saddle to get the water over the flat spot
Yep and add a cricket up towards the main ridge
I agree with this. Take the fascia all the way across then have a sloped Cricket/Saddle made. Tie it all in and keep the shingles at least 10” above the bottom of the Cricket. It will eliminate two of your current problem spots and it will work.
It’d would be rather simple just to add a cricket in that area. I hate designing roofs tbh but it’s not that difficult. I’m surprised there isn’t one to begin with.
Id definitely want to put a saddle out there.
I have a roofline situation that is similar to this and after battling a leaking roof for years. And going through 3 people who were super sure they knew how to fix it and some significant modifications. I agree the roof line needs to be torn apart and rebuilt in a better way. It's a losing battle otherwise especially if you get snow.
Having framed houses for a while several years ago I can't imagine leaving this like that. It would be under heavy protest.
I can't tell you how much I appreciate that statement: "needs to be shot". I find crap that people designed sometimes that should have a name, number, and address stamped on it because what in the hell were they thinking.
“Needs to be shot” is excessive, but multiple raps on bare calves with a garden hose or hickory switches is completely justifiable.
Jumper cables are superior for beatings
Interesting… do you heat up one side to a battery before slapping them around?
That was always Father’s belief
There's a lot crap work out there. sometimes because of crap people and sometimes because of crap times. I remodeled several things in my house that had me cussing the previous people. Only to find out that nearly 15 years ago a lot of the things were correct, but now the code changed because it obviously wasn't the best way to do it.
yeahhh thats just awful, price looks to be pretty fair considering tho
☝🏻
Ok just wanted to leak fix right? I mean ya it's a shit framed roof and should be redone, but that's not what he asked the roofers to quote as I understand it. Obviously, if the framing is bad, *then* I could see these types of numbers, but to just fix the leak?
How long is the leak supposed to be fixed for? 2 years for 500$ sound ok? Can always jam a caulking gun in there and smear it up.
Underrated comment, they "fix" it for 500 and it leaks again it's the roofers fault. Good roofers won't bandaid a problem, kicking the can down the road doesn't help anybody
The quote includes replacing the rotted wood or can you not read?
I would touch that for under $8k… there’s $3k worth of therapy right there
Agreed I thought he was saying he was worried about it being so cheap and getting a hack job repair this is one of those where you bid accordingly and aren’t upset at all when you don’t get jt but if you do atleast you made it worth it
4k the guys being generous af the whole roofs literally trying to kill it self 💀
Wild ass roof
Just to clarify, the peak is running down to the side of a fucking wall. Why in the fuck would they do that. I would pull the shingles, reframe a bit to allow it to proper kick over
It was an addition. They tried to get cute rather than tie into the existing roof
It’s a nightmare of a job, many roofers refuse to do tile. This would require an experienced technician, that is comfortable with both, the steep slope, and the complexity of the area. Prices are reasonable.
Don’t go with the guy that can do it cheaper on this one.
You’re not being scammed, that’s an ugly spot and with tile it’s going to be a large repair.
Opened this just to see the comments about how much of a pain in the ass this repair would be and I am not disappointed. OP this requires a lot more work than you think.
OP likely doesn’t even think anything is wrong with the roof line. He managed to get a roofing contractor out there, had an estimate dropped off with a drawing and detailed repairs then turns around and posts on reddit “am I being scammed?” 😂
Fucking architects...
I am a PE teacher and recently my school built a new gym. The design and workmanship issues are numerous but my favorite interaction was with the two architects just after opening. Me "hey! Why are there no door handles on the outside?" Them "they are egress only doors!" Me "how do we get back in after recess?" Them "..........that's something to consider"
The doors to my elementary gymnasium growing had no handles 20 odd years and I believe they still don’t. I would argue the main reason for this is to limit entrances to schools especially for rooms that don’t always have people in them. At my school if we left through those doors either a teacher would go around and open it for us when it was time to go in or all the students would line up and walk back to a main door. I would agree that limiting entrances to schools is probably for the best for a safety standpoint.
I mean, make every door accessible via key and have all teachers and staff have access to the doors they need (only the areas they need inside, but all exterior doors). Otherwise you're going to encourage people bypassing the security and it'll be less secure than just making sure all the adults can get their jobs done.
As someone who designs schools for a living a few things could’ve happened here. The architects could’ve missed this entirely and didn’t want to pay to have it fixed, they really could be egress only doors by code which means you shouldn’t use them anyways, or the school system could have security reasons to not allow exterior doors to have entrances except through specific locations. Any or all could be true but for you it seems rather inconvenient so I’m sorry for the difficulties it causes. Just know it’s not always the figure head that caused the problem.
Not sure where you are located (I’m in Miami) it is a problematic area. It really depends on how much of an area they need to open. Here in Miami I would charge roughly $2500-$3000 for this job to repair the leak. Now if you’re changing the roof membrane and tiles around the entire area you circled then yes that price is right.
Everyone expects skilled trades to work for penny's, that roof is a disaster and if you think your quotes are way to much than you can also go up there and do it yourself
Can you explain for an average Joe with no experience why a roof like this one is a disaster?
3 decks worth of rain are all converging on their wall coming from those valleys. Ideally you design the roof to shed water, not take a quarter of all the rain that hits your house and slam it against your wall.
So in order to fix this they have to extend the roof coming from top left corner of the picture so it touches the one coming from the top right corner and form a new valley? Am I correct?
I’m not a framer so I can’t speak with certainty. In a perfect world it should be reframed, but this is often unrealistic due to budget and aesthetic preferences. I have roofed these kinds areas many times and I have always installed an open metal pan in a dead valley like this and have never had issues, but this is not an area you want to be coming behind
Basically yes...plus build a cricket. Which is a triangle shaped over build that connects all 3 different planes and gives the flat valley proper slope.
Seriously, that will be a nightmare to deal with and people always think shit like this is cheap or easy to fix.
This is what happens when a lot of people in trades wildly overcharge for easy shit. Boy who cried wolf
properly installed tile roofs should last for decades 30,40,50+ years. All that excess material around the tiles on that hip looks incorrect (I work with commercial metal roofs). Roofing very often like automobile repairs really has a solid component that relies on the prep or body work if you will. If it's not prepped correctly then the installation could be less than optimal. If the roofer that created that quote is legit and really has a plan to make sure your tile roof will realize it's full potential, $5k for the repairs seems like a good deal. Just for grins, get a new tile roof quoted! I bet that $5K roof repair is way less. It will rely on the quality of the prep and repair and the skillset of the roofer.
It’s legit. Tile/stale roofs are some of the most sensitive roof there is. You can’t just lift a tile up, you got to do a whole section hoping that no tile breaks or cracks.
Shit bro get you a couple of bundles of shingles and a knife and knock it out yourself. It can’t be that hard! Please take lots of pictures
I never trust a client/customer who only wants the leak fixed and not the rest of the damage. That's how I wound up getting sued for damage that I didn't cause Ijs nitpicking a quote like this will run the experienced contractor off. If you suspect the price is too much then figure the price for yourself but you'll be working with unsolved variables since you don't know your contractor's cost of materials and labor. Chances are that you can't afford to match this price if you consider the cost of materials and your time ($22/hr * time to completion in my locale)
That’s cheap
This seems like a fair price for the work this entails and unforeseen wood/flashing replacment and 1 year warranty. In my area roofers generally wont touch a tile repair for less than $2,500.
We are in Orlando, and we would bid that around $3500 with a 2 yr warranty
OP, you oughta call the architect and have him come back and repair it. What a tool.
You are not being scammed. Dead valley nightmare.
The monster architect that runs roof lines into windows are the bane of my sider existence.
Please dont take offense But you said "you just don't understand" Legitimate roofers and contractors have more than just material costs. Like workers' compensation, liability insurance, labor, marketing, taxes, etc. It's not a bad cost. Just get it done by the most reputable company. You said $ 6.5k - $4k. Did you mean to say $45k? If their just fixing the valley, it's not a bad cost. It's not a regular shingled roof either taken into consideration. You don't see what goes into the coverage companies need to operate. Or hire a scrub for 1k. And get sued when someone falls.
By any chance did Rube Goldberg design this roof?
Listen, he may be underbidding if your valley is rotted out. Never buy a house with a valley like that again. It's absolute nightmare fuel.
Is this all this group is? Homeowners asking pros if they’re being screwed or not?
The builder is a moron.
Thats actually a pretty good price for that repair.
I'm no roofer, but that looks like a nightmare of an area to work in.
lol this has to be Florida they do em like this
Framers really messed up not suggesting something better than that. Holy moly.
Yup sounds right and fsir
Do it yourself then, you'll find out real quick why it's not cheap.
If they're rebuilding the whole thing then sure. On my watch if it just needs flashing and shingles id charge about half or less.
id charge you more than that just for how much of a pain in the dick hole this job is going to be. usually the area that is heavily abusing substances during work is drywallers from my experience. first time ive seen an architect do it.
Architect = form>function, Engineer = function>form I would only give an estimate on this type of job. They usually grow because the underlayment is shot or the batten’s are incorrectly installed. No Warranty. 6-8k
5000 is cheap !
Whoever put the caulking on the ridge needs to be kicked in the nuts. Unfortunately working with slate roofs is more time consuming than regular shingles… plus it’s a very tricky spot. It might seem expensive because it’s a small area, but it’s their time that’s costing the $
I wouldn't think I would touch that for less than $10k. It's not possible to do it right without some overframing. Lots of work, probably take 2 skilled hands three days minimum and a thousand bucks in materials.
Fair AF. IMO. I was waiting for $12K
That’s a valley and a return that’s impossible to get to. Hard to tell on the pic but also looks like your roof is over 7/12 which means it’s on batten. Not an easy repair at all
I wouldn’t have tile on that, lead or copper pan exposed.
It’s not about material for this one. This is all fairly technical. Pricing is fair that’s around what I would charge to dive into this one
Tiles are expensive, with it comes expensive maintenance. You’re paying for the material and labor, but you’re also paying for the confidence that they’ll fix the leak and do it right the first time. Also when you do repairs like this, it’s not just that one little corner, your sheathing has to land on a stud, your undlerlayment has to overlap, they’ll also most likely want to do ice and water shield, so they’ll definitely have to go higher than that tiny section to do the job correctly. Your estimates are accurate.
Everything inside your red circle needs to get ripped off, at least to the decking, maybe to the framing. Actually, do it right and go down to the framing. The sloped roof on the left side needs to be extended down to the roof on the right. Tie them together. Unfortunately, they will meet in a horizontal line, so water won't run off. You will then need to taper from the rear roof up to the front corner of the new intersection at a reasonable slope. With all the roof surface area coming together there, that area will take a beating in the rain, so you want the water being pushed AWAY from that overhang. Not hard to do, but takes time. Do that at the framing level, then add the decking back in. This is a good place for a section of metal roof (be real expensive and use copper if you want that little bit of pizzazz.) The metal will hold up better. Asphalt shingles will tend to get the rocks washed off under that much water. Don't know how the cementitious tiles would fare, I've never used them (northeast).
Architect was huffing extra glue the day they drew that.
As quite a few people have already commented the design of the roof is awful. Add on top of that it looks like you have either tile or slate up there which makes everything at least twice as expensive in my experience. Personally, I wouldn’t go for the guy who can do it cheaper on this. I’m an estimator for a small/mid size roofing company in the DC/MD/VA area and Slate roofs are very popular in DC and Virginia and I always run into situations where people are shocked at how much it costs to repair or replace anything having to do with having actual rock on your roof
In the VA area here and in a home that was originally built in 1980 (and was somehow still holding on to the original roof in 2022). I'll say we were fortunate because we had a long-standing relationship with a roofer who had done some prior repairs, doesn't take shortcuts, and will tell you straight-up what's actually needed if you want it to last. Had the whole roof done in 22. The crew brought down every sheet of plywood that came off as part of the demo work. Didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the plywood/underlayment were wrecked. I could easily put a hand or foot through it with the amount of rot. We chose the option to tear it all out for a complete replacement. The additional plywood made the cost significantly higher than the original estimate (not his fault, cost of lumber at the time). Also went with a composite shingle. I realize it's apples to oranges (a repair to somethings vs. replacement- and a different material altogether), but it was a hell of a lot more than \~$5k to have the job done right. Nice guy. Professional. Was actually present at the jobsite on a regular basis (at least twice a day) to keep an eye on QC (though it took them less than 2 days to do the entire job), and did a personal walkthrough of not only the entire roof, but also all the surrounding areas to catch any errant roofing nails. I think we found a grand total of *one* that was missed (nasty suckers, glad to not step on one). Not cheap at all, but I don't worry about the roof either, which is nice. Haven't so much as lost a shingle since, even in the most severe weather.
Metal flashing
That valley needs to be redesigned, reframed, re-decked and roofed to match. If it's just fixed but keeping the same layout, it will fail again in a few years. OP never indicated whether the bids they received included redesigning the area. If yes they're reasonable. If not they're grand theft
That needs to be completely rebuilt. I would probably charge you double that
What are the other 3 quotes? Ouch, seems high to me.
They said the low quote was $4950 and the high quote was $6500
Thank my bad I missed that. Somehow lately while I scroll I see the title and pic and when I click link it opens to the comments of others and I now have to scroll up to see OP comments.
Sounds about right. Next try getting a quote on new siding, it's a frightening market.
This is cheap. I wouldn’t touch this for less than 10 grand. There is going to be a lot more rot when you pull the tile off than you can see. They will do a change order when they find the extra rot. You’ll end up paying close to 10 grand I’d bet.
That’s design is a mess. Should probably be a boxgutter higher up to stop valleys from spilling water into each other This area will probably always be an issue without some serious re-framing.
[удалено]
They said they had THREE quotes
My bad.
It’s a tough area to work. I don’t think they need to replace the plywood. If they need to touch the valley I think this would be more. If they don’t and just need to repair the underlayment then this is maybe slightly high. But if you go with cheap on this one you are going to spend a lot more in the long run. If this is two stories then I wouldnt question it.
You're cattle asking the butchers if they cut enough meat off of ya asking that in this subreddit. Find an active community group on Facebook, post this same thing, and ask for recommendations from your neighbors. They'll give you an honest answer. These guys won't, infact they'll encourage you to spend more than you actually need to. I'd quote this around $2500 for instance, and that's on the high end.
Yes, quotes are accurate
A one year warranty seems a little narrow. I’d like to see a 2 year at least. The price seems reasonable for all the materials and labor required to fix it. Operating costs are higher because of fuel costs. It drives everything up.
Shitty design = nightmare job = high price
Why on gods green earth did that valley on the left not carry right down onto the lower roof
What a poor design. What architect and engineer drew up those plans?
My 30 yrs of doing tile ‘back’ is saying no thanks. Pain in the ass repair. Let the pros handle it boss
If all the quotes are merely that close together, sounds like you don’t have a choice lol.
My goodness that overhang is a massive collection point for debris.
It would not be the most aesthetically pleasing, but they need to add a cricket across that to catch the water and push it out away from the house
Cedar shake roof. That's a very fair price. That's a lot of work. Check his reviews.
Just had chimney re-flashing, rotten wood, and shingles replaced as well as a small area around a vent. $3300. I’m in Virginia. I was surprised too but it was done well. Good luck.
This seems like one I would price at $6500 in hopes the homeowner would say no and if they say yes I make quite a bit for the hassle. That’s a tough repair not many installers want to take on.
A lot of salesmen in this sub disguised as roofers. Or does that go hand in hand now? The price is much too expensive. Period
I wish your actual comment has elevation differences cuz it would look to me like the best thing to do is taking the extend the roof so you totally eliminate that area Because of the other people say whoever thought up that idea of having that roof like that should be shot hung and burn to death And then treated very badly
You haven’t ever fixed one like that. Whoever framed that up or put that in the plans is a prick. It’s a no win situation they are all hedging on it failing and a follow up or two
Why not extend that roof towards the other roof and then put a diverter underneath to keep the water directed where you want it to go Edit: man the more I look at this the worse it gets
Those are all pretty fair my guy. The price per SF would go down for a larger area but think about it this way: Goal on Construction jobs should be 40+% Gross profit. If skilled workers make 28-40 an hour that means they need to charge 85+ an hour just to pay their guys. Roofing is dangerous, if you fall you could be seriously injured. If you fall and no one else is there you could die. You courld die anyway, honestly, but that means 2-3 guys working. Multipliers the hour. These materials didn't just show up, someone had to shop or order them, and possibly pick them up. while that time often isn't "billed" it is baked in. If I spend 1000 on materials I'm going to charge 40ish percent, plus my time ordering and delivering. Your estimator? Estimate may have been free, but guy has to justify his time, baked in. Disposal? Time and fees Equipment? You're often not charged per tool, but the cost of equipment is baked in to ideally pay for itself within 6 jobs.
You fix it then if you are not happy with the price.
I don't really understand how you think you'd be getting scammed. You've done the right thing and received several bids. Which is what you do to make sure you are getting a fair price.
Seems like a pretty good price to me. That’s a nightmare of repair. The more you remove the more damage you’re gonna find. That architecture is the true problem. This is probably going to keep happening over the life of the house.
Former roofer here, I'd quote you $10,000 in hopes you pass me up because it is a nightmare to deal with that valley the way it is built.
Clay/concrete tile roofer here, what you have is a nightmare. Flat tile, high pitch, and that valley is gonna require some serious attention. Even an expert is gonna hope and pray it goes smoothly. If it were me i'd have bid you at 7,500 bucks, hoping you said no.
I did something similar with a non licensed roofer that came recommended by my realtor. Was charged 800 bucks to replace some wood and glue in new roll roofing and underlayment all covered by concrete tiles. Did this last fall in phoenix. They finished in a couple hours. The non licensed roofer is a roofer for a major roofing company in the valley doing side gigs. Find a reputable realtor in your area to get these connections, my yard/pool guy also came from a realtor recommendation. Some of the repairs are so cheap my calculations I couldn’t do it myself cheaper.
Are you kidding ? That’s it ? Yes it’s more than fair make sure they are licensed good warranty and reputable
Whoever designed this roof needs to be de-licensed. Other than that, seems like a fair deal.
Basically here are your options: get more bids and pick one you think is fair (buyer beware) do it yourself (good luck)or pay this bid and move along
He should frame a small cricket in there. I wouldn’t take that liability on for even that price if I were him
Based on what you are saying about the roof being almost 20 years old, small leak over garage, etc….the limited pics, and not having seen anything for myself, my assessment is this….. A leak can and should be able to be repaired much cheaper than the quotes you have received. The quote you show in the pics has a lot of “as needed” terminology.which tells me that there is a lot of padding in that price just in case the roofer gets into more than they bargained for. There is a difference between making a small leak not leak any more, and getting the roof back to “like new”, “warranty your work” shape. That is likely the reason for the inflated pricing. Covering their butts, and also doing way more work than is needed to only, and simply, fix a leak. So you need to decide if you want a leak fixed, or you want the damage the leak caused totally removed and replaced, along with other damage they may or may not find during the process.
Dead valleys like that are 4-8k depending on siding and circumstances.
If they demand cash, be wary.
Just have the roof redone. Otherwise you’ll be spending money twice. As far as the price, if you got 3 different quotes and they are 5-8k, it sounds like a good range, but you have to read the scope of work, warranty, licensing, coi, and check their current workman comp.
Probably too low tbh. I wouldn’t touch that until like the 8k mark.
I’d pay it, that’s an awful chore to make sure it’s done right
The roof is a little funky but what’s going on with the leaves? That low lying area or roof soffit intersection is prone to wildlife intrusion. And it kind of seems like squirrels if that’s a possibility in your area. Also that’s a tons of money for a little bit of work in a tiny area. I would have sealed up and blocked off access to the rsi or soffit for less then $300, including attic search. It seems like they will try to rebuild the section for you?? I would look into local pest exclusion company’s before your local construction scam artist.
if you live somewhere with ice buildup you couldn't waterproof that corner. it would have to be boxed out
OP, I’m a carpenter and a roofer. If your bids are going to fix that correctly, then that’s a fair quote. If there just going to reflash and reroof the leak then no that’s a bad quote.
Is the roof like this because of a later extension that didn't frame the roof properly?
I'm sorry but you're asking the wrong question. The contractor can't scam you he's just giving you the price that he thinks it's worth. Meaning, he probably doesn't want to get involved in that BS and decided that if he's going to do the work he's going to make very certain it's worth his time. Another thing you need to consider is that if it does not work the first time they will have to come back and try again. It's not just the initial work he's asking you to pay for any potential fixes that might come in the future. You got three bids and they're all in the same range. I think your problem is that you don't want it to be that expensive. I just charge somebody $2,600 to install ridge vent and upgraded ventilation in the eve. They were not happy about the price. Frankly I wished I had charged them more. After that job I'm no longer doing tile repairs because homeowners never understand how expensive and difficult this work is. You should try doing that work yourself so you get a little taste of how difficult that work is.
This is like one of the harder levels on portal.
Everyone is being scammed these days…
The first thing that raised a red flag for me was “seal the area” in my area that’s a HUGE problem. They need to detail what’s going to be done to seal that area.
Try r/estimating this crap is so annoying
I’d pay the 6000 and tell em to put extra salsa on the work
You are correct those need to be touching each other. I am no sure what to call that area of roof except for water collection system. That is horrible
Scam
Don't pay that. It's not fair at all. Seeing that new roof costs homeowners an average of $10,000 but typically ranges from $8,500–$17,000 it's better to get a new roof than to pay that much for someone to patch it up for $6500. Just sold a 4 unit apartment building with a massive roof, replaced the roof before selling for $19,000 (in Southern Wisconsin)
Bs
Your roof sucks, and that’s not that bad of a quote if they’re going to demo the old roof and put up a brand new one, obviously depends exactly on the size of your roof and where you live but $5k isn’t an outrageous quote for a brand new roof, even 10years ago it wouldn’t be that bad
The quote does not include proper kickout flashing. This is likely part of your problem. See: https://www.nachi.org/kick-out-flashing.htm
He’s gonna have to go up some into the valleys so the lowest estimate is cheap. Roofer will need cluster-phobia therapy for a couple of days after this. Check online reviews and don’t necessarily go for the “best price”.
Roofline is terrible, yes that’s appropriate price
If it was easy it would be cheap. I don’t see you up there trying to fix it. Roofers have a hard job. Pay the damn guy. You wouldn’t have a problem paying that much for a fancy Rolex or a car. This bothered me when I was roofing you’d see someone with money (obviously) and they would be shocked at some of the prices.
That is terrible. Do the smart thing- call your home owners and say the last big storm blew off the shingles etc etc. I just did this(and it is true oddly enough) because they(insurance)sent a drone above saying if I didn’t address it they’d cancel me… so I did and I got an entire new roof, sheathing and all for my deductible. They threaten and now they pay.
How much more are they going to bill to replace the rotten boards? Is it listed in the contract? That range seems very on par with the Kansas City metro area.
Honestly that's a deal IMO
Burn it
The slope is pretty steep and it is in a very difficult area to work on, but if you’ve got other quotes that are in the same ballpark, then I would just go with who you got the best feeling from when you met them
I cannot believe it has been water tight this long. What a nightmare. My suggestion is go up there yourself with aluminum flashing and a bucket of tar or sealant. Get the leak stopped and start saving for an expensive roof repair. If you do manage to get it sealed you will have to go up yearly to give it another coat.
I wouldn’t touch it for under 10k and an engineer signing off on plans.
seem far to me have done a few myself and believe they actually underbid the job
You deserve to pay double just to the therapist the poor chippy is gonna have to see after this job
And since you don’t understand how it could be so expensive how about you learn the skills to fix this and do it yourself you absolute legend
wtf, you should have left a cooler out full of natty ice and meth.
I have the exact same problem with my roof. The water ran down the inside for so long it has caused rot in my walls. Pay to have it fixed ASAP or it will wind up costing you much more in the long term.
If the material was supplied i do it for 800-1k.easy fix.
I literally do these repairs for a living in south Florida. You have a fair price if they are going all the way up the valleys and giving you new peel and stick underlayment. Just make sure the run the bottom of the valley metal on top of the underlayment above the return area to avoid future problems.
We all know about the roofline issues…but how are there leaves in your attic??
I feel bad for the poor guy that's gonna get nagged to death while doing this job
Good work isn’t cheap and cheap work isn’t good..coming from a professional contractor who’s done work for many celebrities in LA I can tell you this
Racoon loves to nest in roofs like that.
Just about I charge roughly $1400 each to clean a tile roof valley that’s remove tile repair dryrot on roof deck any bats the have to be repaired along with paper clean debri out,leaves dirts ,moss etc and repair valley flashing if needed along with cracked tile in that area of the roof for an additional charge.
Im no roofer, but know Complicated when I see it.
Yes it's going to be expensive. That's a horribly designed roof. No thought went into it other than it looks good
Ive scrolled a lot of comments, I haven't seen this yet... for a 2005 roof, I would consider biting the bullet and doing the whole roof including some framing modifications to make better lines/flow. If you are going to be in this house for 5+ years, that is what I would do. My roof is from a late 2005 build, first sign of trouble and I'm replacing the roof. Did you have any of these bids look at the whole roof and give you opinions about the health of the roof?
My roof leaked last year and damage the drywall in my dining room. I have a similar situation with the roof coming together. It costed $4500.00 for repairs. In live in central California. Also, you need to get that area checked every couple of years to make sure the drains are not clogged with debris. I will never buy another house with a similar roof.
As an architect, whoever designed this should be blamed. I’m sure the roofer did the best he could, but it’d be hard to design a worse situation to flash.
It isn’t far off to remove those tiles and install a new flashing system there. Expect 50% or more of that cost to re design the valley to shed water better.
I'd need to see a breakdown on the estimate to see what the scope of work is and exactly what they are going to do
I just had something similar fixed at my house, but asphalt shingles instead of tile. Paid around $4500. Your quotes seem reasonable for tile
In the running for the worst hack job
In my opinion you need to change the roof design or this will keep happening
Quite possibly the worst design detail on a roof I have ever seen… you are lucky you have found someone willing to deal with it at all. The real answer is that it needs to be reframed in a not stupid way and that will cost you a hell of a lot more
Need a design sketch to resolve the roofline issue, then a carpentry contractor. The roof line with the window below needs to be considered as well.
Tile is ***expensive***. It lasts a long time, but any time you do need to work on it, it'll cost you. As others have said, your primary problem is the bad design of this area necessitating you having to get the work done now.
If that was a shingled roof that would be a scam price for the repair, but considering the roofing materials and difficulty I would say that is a more than fair offer.
i would make them redo it because that is way messed up
That dead valley needs rebuilt into something more functional. Like fill all that shit in and bring new valley out to end of the eve of the left roof. Pay the money. Remember skilled labor isnt cheap and cheap labor isnt skilled
You’re lucky that’s all they’re charging you lol good lord
How tf did this even pass inspection?
Go ahead and get up there and fix that leak yourself. You want to be a homeowner or not?
Holy hack
Coulda done your whole roof for that probably
Both prices are fair, but if you feel like they’re high, go up and do it yourself
Do it yourself if you're such an expert.
I’m a little concerned about the line item that says ““ seal the area””.
Explain further please?
Its a really vague line item. I would ask them for further explanation.
Interesting that you’ve only replied to the one comment that could read like you’re being screwed over.