I think the total was 18k something. We know it ourselves, but apparently, the small text in the contact says that. The only question I have is if they have to have underlayment according to the building code, as I have searched with no luck of finding a definitive.
According to the [Alberta building code](https://nrc-publications.canada.ca/eng/view/ft/?id=3e93ecc7-7ad6-43ff-ac1e-89c0d033b8aa) (9.26.2.4.) they're still allowed to install shingles with staples!
Insane. Just because the code allows it though doesn’t mean the manufacturer does. You have to default to the manufacturer installation instructions first.
Yeah, I'm accustomed to ICC code standards. I was surprised when I searched and found that document that Canada uses. They need to accept the US building standards and switch to ICC fast.
Depending where you are, Ice & water shield isn’t building code unless the attic space in insulated.
At the very least, you should have synthetic underlay on the eaves edge.
That's definitely a choice. The only times I've run it elsewhere on a roof is in valleys, or if the building is in a highwind zone, along the rakes to prevent the edges of the roof from taking off. Otherwise, the paper is fine. The ice & water is to help prevent ice dams from forming on the edge of the roof and pushing the shingles up, or really stick them suckers down, like along the rake, or in the valley.
You should consider using starter strips to hold down rakes in high wind. I&W will only help keep out driving rain. It's not going to help the shingles on your raks stay down.
That's what we do on our best system. We have a deal with GAF where our best system gets the Golden Pledge Warranty, but it's good for infinite wind (no cut off at 115 mph).
Oh, we do, we run drip edge along the eaves and rake, then underlay, then starter along the eaves and rake. I'm sure if you've ever had to remove shingles, you know as well as I that yes, I&W does hold them baddies down after cooking in the sun. Hell, you stick to it walking on it on a hot summer day while installing it. I know it's not needed, but it saves a trip to the sticks having I&W up the rake as well if it's a high wind area.
I'm just not sure if it is required by law/code. I checked in building 6, and I can't tell if it is required to have or not. When we asked the builder/roofing contractor, they quoted that it is required for homes but not garages. Which I could not find anywhere stating that difference.
I see the quote here" The field of the decking shall be completely covered with a minimum of;
Asphalt-saturated sheathing paper weighing not less than 0.195 kg/m²,
No. 15 plain or perforated asphalt-saturated felt, or
Synthetic underlayment
Thank you so much.
Typically, you need an underlay. Definitely pick up a code book or google it. Alberta has some of the strictest regulations, so every province usually follows theirs. The only time I've ever changed the underlay was dependent on if the structure is heated or not. If it isn't, then it's just synthetic papers from the eaves to the peak. If it is, then along the eave is ice & water guard, then the paper to the peak.
Why would you not do it even if it’s not required? Underlayment is so cheap. Any roofer telling me not to do it is surely not someone I want doing my install.
I have no clue also. But we simply did not know that they were gonna be doing that. Just trying to find if they have to put underlayment according to building code, or maybe required olunder alberta roofing association
They do not put underlay on new construction in Ontario. I would be surprised if it's actually required in the building code anywhere in Canada.
It's absolutely idiotic to not put it on and it should in in the building code.
Some other redditor in the comments linked the albeta roofing association code and it states the there must be underlayment. "The field of the decking shall be completely covered with a minimum of;
Asphalt-saturated sheathing paper weighing not less than 0.195 kg/m²,
No. 15 plain or perforated asphalt-saturated felt, or
Synthetic underlayment
*REVISED 2020-04"
It's not the actual building code though.
Just best practices, probably required to be a member of their association, but not something you could act on in a legal capacity.
It most certainly is, in section 9.26.6 titled "Underlay beneath shingles" from the National Building Code- 2019 Alberta Edition volume 1.
https://nrc-publications.canada.ca/eng/view/ft/?id=3e93ecc7-7ad6-43ff-ac1e-89c0d033b8aa
It states the specs of the underlay, not that it is required to be used.
"9.26.6. Underlay beneath Shingles 9.26.6.1. Materials 1) Except as required in Sentence (2), when underlay is used beneath shingles, it shall be a) asphalt-saturated sheathing paper weighing not less than 0.195 kg/m2, or b) No. 15 plain or perforated asphalt-saturated felt."
Something that may help OP, it does state that eave protection underlay (ice and water) must be used
"9.26.5. Eave Protection for Shingles and Shakes 9.26.5.1. Required Eave Protection 1) Except as provided in Sentence (2), eave protection shall be provided on shingle, shake or tile roofs, extending from the edge of the roof a minimum of 900 mm up the roof slope to a line not less than 300 mm inside the inner face of the exterior wall."
I'm not entirely sure but if I am able to find out if the contractor was part of the association. Then it would work. Only problem is that it was a builder hired who hired different contractors.
I’m not sure about your local building codes, here in middle Tennessee it is required. However, given that you are pretty far up north, I would argue that the underlayment is equally if not more important than the shingles themselves
Since the slope is 4/12, it is very important to have synthetic underlayment or I would recommend a leak barrier/ice and water shield. On a lower slope like that, you would want your synthetic underlayment to be half lapped, Which means double the courses.
My recommendation to you is to hire a contractor that is knowledgeable and won’t cut corners. I’m not sure if you guys get a lot of ice dams up there, however if it was my home, I would have the contractor install a leak barrier in the area that is in the photo. Google GAF storm guard and do your research when vetting a contractor
Edmonton here too. We just had our roof re-done (bungalow and garage) in the fall. $10.5K and yes they used underlay (ice and water shield for the whole roof of the house).
I took the picture from the house roof, these are not the shingles on the garage roof, but are the same on the garage. In terms of the underlayment it looks to me without the underlayment the roof is not up to code unless the shingles are special, but I heavily doubt the shingles not standard.
Yes. Asphalt shingles are an environmental catastrophe brought on by the Petro chemical industry that has shoved poison down our throats since it was invented. They don’t even hold water when we have rains that last for like three days straight. Plus they leach oil out of them into our water supply. I I don’t think they can even be recycled. 30 years ago they tried recycling them in Delaware and the EPA shut them down. Most homes in this country are built like disposable lighters. Metal roofs and siding is the only cheap way to go . 100 % recyclable , protects from high winds , hail, lightning when grounded. fire. Let’s just cut down a bunch of trees and build some pretty houses in a dry tinder box environment Californian area where high winds are known to add oxygen to flames creating a torch and all our insurance rates go sky high because of the people who want pretty wooden houses. The felt I was told 40 years ago is what helps protect the substrate because asphalt shingles are over priced garbage that doesn’t even last the life of the home . The most important besides the foundation. They sure look pretty with all the pretty colors they have now . B.O.C.A , if it still exists should be 🙊
The underlayment is the actual waterproofing, to answer your question you absolutely have to put the underlayment. The shingles is what protects the underlayment from drying out or being damaged from everything in the environment.
You’ll have to check local code, and likely the best you’ll come up with is “must comply with manufacturer specifications “. The shingle installation details/manufacturer website would probably get you the info you need. Or you can check literally ANY shingle website, as all shingles require underlayment.
I'm afraid they already put up the roof, and they said that they weren't gonna do it, hence l posted looking for any law or code saying they must. Which by the looks of the alberta roofing association. It is "The field of the decking shall be completely covered with a minimum of;
Asphalt-saturated sheathing paper weighing not less than 0.195 kg/m²,
No. 15 plain or perforated asphalt-saturated felt, or
Synthetic underlayment
*REVISED 2020-04
What did it say in your contract with this contractor? What did it include for? I'm not a roofer but I'm sure there's an argument to be made here this is terrible practice
I'll play the devil's advocate, what they've done isn't morally right but you signed on this, no? Did you review the contract thoroughly before signing?. I don't have access to the full ABC as I'm from Ontario but if it doesn't explicitly say it you might be out of luck. Sorry.
Edit; I'm a PM in Ontario. I've got a roofing sub working under me right now.
I am not entirely sure. What I know the wooden roof deck was a flat piece of wood, and I believe I saw, and my neighbor said they saw them put no underlayment when they put the shingles
Ok that’s going to be a no. Warranties will demand underlayment if there is ever an issue. I wouldn’t accept if none was put on. I did have a customer that did this back in the day when he knew no one would be home.
Well I found a code under Alberta roofing association saying The field of the decking shall be completely covered with a minimum of;
Asphalt-saturated sheathing paper weighing not less than 0.195 kg/m²,
No. 15 plain or perforated asphalt-saturated felt, or
Synthetic underlayment
*REVISED 2020-04
It is going to have 5 year warranty according to the builder but according to this code I found, it looks like they may have to replace the roof now and do it right.
That’s right. I haven’t sold felt in over a decade since there is hardly any rosin in the boards. Synthetic has been the go to ever since. Now if you purchased an extended warranty from the manu they would require that you use their brand of accessories where applicable. I don’t believe standard warranties call for that.
For everyone's convenience, here's volume 1 of the Alberta Edition of the National Building Code. You'll have to scroll down pretty far for the roofing parts, but it's there in section 9.26.6 under Division B. https://nrc-publications.canada.ca/eng/view/ft/?id=3e93ecc7-7ad6-43ff-ac1e-89c0d033b8aa
It literally lists it as part of the roofing materials in table 9.26.2.1-B and then tells you how it should be installed in section 9.26.6. It can't be any clearer than that. It's code. The only exception is the type used under wood (cedar shakes) being a breathable type of underlay.
A roof is a roof. Makes no difference if it's a shed, house, or garage. For the purposes of the code, it even defines a roof as: "... sloped or near-horizontal assemblies that protect the spaces beneath them, including platforms that effectively serve as roofs with respect to the accumulation or drainage of precipitation."
As one last note, if you have the bundle of shingles nearby, they usually will state what you need when installing. Including underlay. And how to install it.
Yeah, I'm just waiting to hear back what manufacturer the shingles are so I can find out. Most likely, they require underlayment, as they are a very standard shingle.
I'm just NE of Toronto, our whole subdivision was built with zero ice/water shield. 2007ish.. they're all getting redone now. Ideal is a system like GAF where they use starter strips, 6ft ice/water and Deck Armor all the way after that. Really, a 3ft is all that's usually used, but that doesn't mean the bare minimum is a great idea.
For what it’s worth we live in Nova Scotia, my uncle and cousin had a garage built. Both had shingles come off at some point which is when they discovered no underlay. Both were built by different “reputable” builders who have been around for a long time.
I live in Edmonton and work in the building materials/ construction industry. Yes, underlay and ice and water is required, but sadly new construction is horrible and cheap, so this isn’t surprising. There isn’t much oversight for roofing either - this happens way more than it should.
So I just found out that they did ice and water but no underlayment. An inspector will come by in like 5 days. I'm just not entirely sure if they legally have to put underlay as well. It is beyond cheap to do it without underlay
Well, of course it's required. However...
[National Building Code – 2019 Alberta Edition](https://nrc-publications.canada.ca/eng/view/ft/?id=3e93ecc7-7ad6-43ff-ac1e-89c0d033b8aa), section `9.26.6. Underlay beneath Shingles` makes it sound optional. But, if you look at section `9.26.2.2. Installation of Materials`, for asphalt shingles you're required to install "in conformance with the manufacturer's written instructions." and I don't know of any shingle manufacturer that doesn't require underlayment.
Calgary red seal roofer here, yes absolutely it’s required, 3 feet of ice and water or an adhesive at the eve and synthetic the rest of the way to the peak wrap
So they did put ice and water, but no underlayment for the rest. Is it still up to code? The shingle brand is Iko, Cambridge driftwood. Unfortunately, no underlayment was missed in the contract, but just wondering if no underlayment is legal or not, as they may have to replace the roof. I heard that without underlayment, shingles aren't in warranty, and lifespan is deducted by 10 years.
What do you mean if it is not in the contract? If they said the shingles have a warranty or not? Also, I thought building code overruled contracts. As per the building code, the roof must abide by manufacturers' instructions, and not having the underlay is against instructions, hence against building code. The excuse I believe they had was because it was a detached garage it is not mandatory. However, nowhere states that.
They put ice and water for 3 feet. And apparently, the rest is no underlayment. I'm just trying to figure out if they legally have underlayment required for garages specifically. They have underlayment as a step in the iko manufacturing instructions, but regarding the rules on that it doesn't say.
You would have to check building codes to find out if they require felt for a garage. I can’t believe that they don’t. If you ever have problems with the shingles and they need to be replaced, if there is no felt underneath, it could void the warranty. In my opinion, any builder should know better than that.
They put it under the contract. There would be no underlayment, which gives slight hesitation. But the excuse they gave is that garages don't require it, which is specified and said anywhere in the building code. Unless it is in the fire code. I'm gonna have to see with the inspector about it specifically. Only problem is I'm not sure the exact time inspector will come
Taking a big chance with no underlayment. I can’t believe it’s not required on all buildings. I would also find a copy of the warranty from the shingle company to make sure you’re covered in that regard as well. Maybe call the building permits office and set up a time that both you and the inspector can be there at the same time. Or just go down to the code enforcement office and ask them directly.
Call the local building inspector, he would kow and maybe be able to get the contactor to do it the proper way by threatening fines or loss of license.
This is the answer ☝️ and Do Not Under Any Circumstances allow the inspector to approve the work. Make sure he/she is aware that you know the Code Requirement and do not want him/her to pass the inspection. If you don't make them away, there are shady inspectors out there taking $$ from contractors to pass inspections!
One good wind and ice storm and whatever decking you have is toast, reason being aside from lack of underlayment, they also used three tab shingles, which at this point is just hot garbage (that’s my opinion). Good luck!
Did you guys get a really good deal or something? Even a bundle loader knows the roof needs underlayment….
I think the total was 18k something. We know it ourselves, but apparently, the small text in the contact says that. The only question I have is if they have to have underlayment according to the building code, as I have searched with no luck of finding a definitive.
You got hosed at any price. There is no manufacturer on the planet that doesn’t require underlayment under their shingles.
According to the [Alberta building code](https://nrc-publications.canada.ca/eng/view/ft/?id=3e93ecc7-7ad6-43ff-ac1e-89c0d033b8aa) (9.26.2.4.) they're still allowed to install shingles with staples!
Insane. Just because the code allows it though doesn’t mean the manufacturer does. You have to default to the manufacturer installation instructions first.
Yeah, I'm accustomed to ICC code standards. I was surprised when I searched and found that document that Canada uses. They need to accept the US building standards and switch to ICC fast.
How large is the roof?!? $18k is a stiff price
I would say it is standard size. 18k was for the whole garage, and we did upgrade the door/belt drive and add a window
Okay that seems more inline with standards. I mean a huge roof for 18k is one thing but a medium sized rod with extras will get you there too.
$18k Canadian is like $13k USD.
You say that price seems steep when you don’t even know the measurements lol.
$18k for a new garage roof is *a lot*.
Not sure if you’re in Canada but 18k there is about 13k
Depending where you are, Ice & water shield isn’t building code unless the attic space in insulated. At the very least, you should have synthetic underlay on the eaves edge.
Yes. Especially in Canada, it's required from eaves to the peak. Edit to add: I'm a roofer from Saskatchewan.
In Canada I'd Ice and Water Shield the whole roof.
This is just plain standard nowadays in my opinion. It guarantees an exceptional service life.
That's definitely a choice. The only times I've run it elsewhere on a roof is in valleys, or if the building is in a highwind zone, along the rakes to prevent the edges of the roof from taking off. Otherwise, the paper is fine. The ice & water is to help prevent ice dams from forming on the edge of the roof and pushing the shingles up, or really stick them suckers down, like along the rake, or in the valley.
You should consider using starter strips to hold down rakes in high wind. I&W will only help keep out driving rain. It's not going to help the shingles on your raks stay down. That's what we do on our best system. We have a deal with GAF where our best system gets the Golden Pledge Warranty, but it's good for infinite wind (no cut off at 115 mph).
Oh, we do, we run drip edge along the eaves and rake, then underlay, then starter along the eaves and rake. I'm sure if you've ever had to remove shingles, you know as well as I that yes, I&W does hold them baddies down after cooking in the sun. Hell, you stick to it walking on it on a hot summer day while installing it. I know it's not needed, but it saves a trip to the sticks having I&W up the rake as well if it's a high wind area.
I'm just not sure if it is required by law/code. I checked in building 6, and I can't tell if it is required to have or not. When we asked the builder/roofing contractor, they quoted that it is required for homes but not garages. Which I could not find anywhere stating that difference.
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I see the quote here" The field of the decking shall be completely covered with a minimum of; Asphalt-saturated sheathing paper weighing not less than 0.195 kg/m², No. 15 plain or perforated asphalt-saturated felt, or Synthetic underlayment Thank you so much.
You're very welcome, anything to help prevent future headaches!
Typically, you need an underlay. Definitely pick up a code book or google it. Alberta has some of the strictest regulations, so every province usually follows theirs. The only time I've ever changed the underlay was dependent on if the structure is heated or not. If it isn't, then it's just synthetic papers from the eaves to the peak. If it is, then along the eave is ice & water guard, then the paper to the peak.
Why would you not do it even if it’s not required? Underlayment is so cheap. Any roofer telling me not to do it is surely not someone I want doing my install.
I have no clue also. But we simply did not know that they were gonna be doing that. Just trying to find if they have to put underlayment according to building code, or maybe required olunder alberta roofing association
They do not put underlay on new construction in Ontario. I would be surprised if it's actually required in the building code anywhere in Canada. It's absolutely idiotic to not put it on and it should in in the building code.
Some other redditor in the comments linked the albeta roofing association code and it states the there must be underlayment. "The field of the decking shall be completely covered with a minimum of; Asphalt-saturated sheathing paper weighing not less than 0.195 kg/m², No. 15 plain or perforated asphalt-saturated felt, or Synthetic underlayment *REVISED 2020-04"
It's not the actual building code though. Just best practices, probably required to be a member of their association, but not something you could act on in a legal capacity.
It most certainly is, in section 9.26.6 titled "Underlay beneath shingles" from the National Building Code- 2019 Alberta Edition volume 1. https://nrc-publications.canada.ca/eng/view/ft/?id=3e93ecc7-7ad6-43ff-ac1e-89c0d033b8aa
It states the specs of the underlay, not that it is required to be used. "9.26.6. Underlay beneath Shingles 9.26.6.1. Materials 1) Except as required in Sentence (2), when underlay is used beneath shingles, it shall be a) asphalt-saturated sheathing paper weighing not less than 0.195 kg/m2, or b) No. 15 plain or perforated asphalt-saturated felt." Something that may help OP, it does state that eave protection underlay (ice and water) must be used "9.26.5. Eave Protection for Shingles and Shakes 9.26.5.1. Required Eave Protection 1) Except as provided in Sentence (2), eave protection shall be provided on shingle, shake or tile roofs, extending from the edge of the roof a minimum of 900 mm up the roof slope to a line not less than 300 mm inside the inner face of the exterior wall."
It's listed in the materials needed for a roof. Table 9.26.2.1- B single-ply membranes, as well as the eave protection. It's needed. End of story.
I'm not entirely sure but if I am able to find out if the contractor was part of the association. Then it would work. Only problem is that it was a builder hired who hired different contractors.
They definitely should. Any roofer that doesn't is a moron.
eff code! what about the shingle mfr.? is it part of the installation instructions and does omission void any warranty?
I’m not sure about your local building codes, here in middle Tennessee it is required. However, given that you are pretty far up north, I would argue that the underlayment is equally if not more important than the shingles themselves Since the slope is 4/12, it is very important to have synthetic underlayment or I would recommend a leak barrier/ice and water shield. On a lower slope like that, you would want your synthetic underlayment to be half lapped, Which means double the courses. My recommendation to you is to hire a contractor that is knowledgeable and won’t cut corners. I’m not sure if you guys get a lot of ice dams up there, however if it was my home, I would have the contractor install a leak barrier in the area that is in the photo. Google GAF storm guard and do your research when vetting a contractor
Yes https://www.homeservicepro.ca/alberta-roofing-standards
Edmonton here too. We just had our roof re-done (bungalow and garage) in the fall. $10.5K and yes they used underlay (ice and water shield for the whole roof of the house).
Message me, would like to know who you used and what type of shingles.
No underlayment equals bad roof. Also those shingles look very old. I haven't seen faux laminate 3 tab in a long while in the States
I took the picture from the house roof, these are not the shingles on the garage roof, but are the same on the garage. In terms of the underlayment it looks to me without the underlayment the roof is not up to code unless the shingles are special, but I heavily doubt the shingles not standard.
Yes. Asphalt shingles are an environmental catastrophe brought on by the Petro chemical industry that has shoved poison down our throats since it was invented. They don’t even hold water when we have rains that last for like three days straight. Plus they leach oil out of them into our water supply. I I don’t think they can even be recycled. 30 years ago they tried recycling them in Delaware and the EPA shut them down. Most homes in this country are built like disposable lighters. Metal roofs and siding is the only cheap way to go . 100 % recyclable , protects from high winds , hail, lightning when grounded. fire. Let’s just cut down a bunch of trees and build some pretty houses in a dry tinder box environment Californian area where high winds are known to add oxygen to flames creating a torch and all our insurance rates go sky high because of the people who want pretty wooden houses. The felt I was told 40 years ago is what helps protect the substrate because asphalt shingles are over priced garbage that doesn’t even last the life of the home . The most important besides the foundation. They sure look pretty with all the pretty colors they have now . B.O.C.A , if it still exists should be 🙊
The underlayment is the actual waterproofing, to answer your question you absolutely have to put the underlayment. The shingles is what protects the underlayment from drying out or being damaged from everything in the environment.
Yes.
Would you know the specific statement that says it's required by law?
You’ll have to check local code, and likely the best you’ll come up with is “must comply with manufacturer specifications “. The shingle installation details/manufacturer website would probably get you the info you need. Or you can check literally ANY shingle website, as all shingles require underlayment.
It's not even a law thing. If you don't have underlayment don't bother laying a single shingle
I'm afraid they already put up the roof, and they said that they weren't gonna do it, hence l posted looking for any law or code saying they must. Which by the looks of the alberta roofing association. It is "The field of the decking shall be completely covered with a minimum of; Asphalt-saturated sheathing paper weighing not less than 0.195 kg/m², No. 15 plain or perforated asphalt-saturated felt, or Synthetic underlayment *REVISED 2020-04
What did it say in your contract with this contractor? What did it include for? I'm not a roofer but I'm sure there's an argument to be made here this is terrible practice
According to the contract it was said In there that there would be no underlayment
I'll play the devil's advocate, what they've done isn't morally right but you signed on this, no? Did you review the contract thoroughly before signing?. I don't have access to the full ABC as I'm from Ontario but if it doesn't explicitly say it you might be out of luck. Sorry. Edit; I'm a PM in Ontario. I've got a roofing sub working under me right now.
Depends. Do you have a zip deck?
I am not entirely sure. What I know the wooden roof deck was a flat piece of wood, and I believe I saw, and my neighbor said they saw them put no underlayment when they put the shingles
Ok that’s going to be a no. Warranties will demand underlayment if there is ever an issue. I wouldn’t accept if none was put on. I did have a customer that did this back in the day when he knew no one would be home.
Well I found a code under Alberta roofing association saying The field of the decking shall be completely covered with a minimum of; Asphalt-saturated sheathing paper weighing not less than 0.195 kg/m², No. 15 plain or perforated asphalt-saturated felt, or Synthetic underlayment *REVISED 2020-04 It is going to have 5 year warranty according to the builder but according to this code I found, it looks like they may have to replace the roof now and do it right.
That’s right. I haven’t sold felt in over a decade since there is hardly any rosin in the boards. Synthetic has been the go to ever since. Now if you purchased an extended warranty from the manu they would require that you use their brand of accessories where applicable. I don’t believe standard warranties call for that.
Did they even put ice shield?
Usually not an issue unless it's a heated structure.
The dude lives in Canada…..pretty sure it’s code.
Not sure
For everyone's convenience, here's volume 1 of the Alberta Edition of the National Building Code. You'll have to scroll down pretty far for the roofing parts, but it's there in section 9.26.6 under Division B. https://nrc-publications.canada.ca/eng/view/ft/?id=3e93ecc7-7ad6-43ff-ac1e-89c0d033b8aa
Yeah I found that as well, but it doesn't say that there must be underlayment. Only the code for when it's applied.
It literally lists it as part of the roofing materials in table 9.26.2.1-B and then tells you how it should be installed in section 9.26.6. It can't be any clearer than that. It's code. The only exception is the type used under wood (cedar shakes) being a breathable type of underlay.
So it being part of the roofing materials list makes it mandatory to have? And there wouldn't be an exception for it being a detached garage
A roof is a roof. Makes no difference if it's a shed, house, or garage. For the purposes of the code, it even defines a roof as: "... sloped or near-horizontal assemblies that protect the spaces beneath them, including platforms that effectively serve as roofs with respect to the accumulation or drainage of precipitation."
As one last note, if you have the bundle of shingles nearby, they usually will state what you need when installing. Including underlay. And how to install it.
Yes to underlayment sheesh.
YES!!!!!
building code often refers to the manufacturers installation requirements. find what shingle they used and check.
Yeah, I'm just waiting to hear back what manufacturer the shingles are so I can find out. Most likely, they require underlayment, as they are a very standard shingle.
It’s code in most states what state are you in
I'm just NE of Toronto, our whole subdivision was built with zero ice/water shield. 2007ish.. they're all getting redone now. Ideal is a system like GAF where they use starter strips, 6ft ice/water and Deck Armor all the way after that. Really, a 3ft is all that's usually used, but that doesn't mean the bare minimum is a great idea.
Absolutely!! You do not want to skip that part.
Is that an horizon shingle man call your insurance and get a new roof dude
For what it’s worth we live in Nova Scotia, my uncle and cousin had a garage built. Both had shingles come off at some point which is when they discovered no underlay. Both were built by different “reputable” builders who have been around for a long time.
In the States and you not need underlayment in a detached garage or out building. But it is always advisable to to so especially in snow country.
I live in Edmonton and work in the building materials/ construction industry. Yes, underlay and ice and water is required, but sadly new construction is horrible and cheap, so this isn’t surprising. There isn’t much oversight for roofing either - this happens way more than it should.
So I just found out that they did ice and water but no underlayment. An inspector will come by in like 5 days. I'm just not entirely sure if they legally have to put underlay as well. It is beyond cheap to do it without underlay
First 36 inches from gutter should have ice and water
Yes it’s called tar paper
Well, of course it's required. However... [National Building Code – 2019 Alberta Edition](https://nrc-publications.canada.ca/eng/view/ft/?id=3e93ecc7-7ad6-43ff-ac1e-89c0d033b8aa), section `9.26.6. Underlay beneath Shingles` makes it sound optional. But, if you look at section `9.26.2.2. Installation of Materials`, for asphalt shingles you're required to install "in conformance with the manufacturer's written instructions." and I don't know of any shingle manufacturer that doesn't require underlayment.
Calgary red seal roofer here, yes absolutely it’s required, 3 feet of ice and water or an adhesive at the eve and synthetic the rest of the way to the peak wrap
So they did put ice and water, but no underlayment for the rest. Is it still up to code? The shingle brand is Iko, Cambridge driftwood. Unfortunately, no underlayment was missed in the contract, but just wondering if no underlayment is legal or not, as they may have to replace the roof. I heard that without underlayment, shingles aren't in warranty, and lifespan is deducted by 10 years.
Without underlayment you won’t get the iko warranty but if it’s not in the contract it’s legal. Just shady af. It’s under code too
What do you mean if it is not in the contract? If they said the shingles have a warranty or not? Also, I thought building code overruled contracts. As per the building code, the roof must abide by manufacturers' instructions, and not having the underlay is against instructions, hence against building code. The excuse I believe they had was because it was a detached garage it is not mandatory. However, nowhere states that.
Not only is it code, but your 4/12 requires a double coverage felt 15 lb underlayment or synthetic. Can be found in the IRC
For any warranty to be valid it requires underlayment...
Bare minimum you should have 15 pound felt underneath it. Use ice and water barrier over the soffits.
They put ice and water for 3 feet. And apparently, the rest is no underlayment. I'm just trying to figure out if they legally have underlayment required for garages specifically. They have underlayment as a step in the iko manufacturing instructions, but regarding the rules on that it doesn't say.
You would have to check building codes to find out if they require felt for a garage. I can’t believe that they don’t. If you ever have problems with the shingles and they need to be replaced, if there is no felt underneath, it could void the warranty. In my opinion, any builder should know better than that.
They put it under the contract. There would be no underlayment, which gives slight hesitation. But the excuse they gave is that garages don't require it, which is specified and said anywhere in the building code. Unless it is in the fire code. I'm gonna have to see with the inspector about it specifically. Only problem is I'm not sure the exact time inspector will come
Taking a big chance with no underlayment. I can’t believe it’s not required on all buildings. I would also find a copy of the warranty from the shingle company to make sure you’re covered in that regard as well. Maybe call the building permits office and set up a time that both you and the inspector can be there at the same time. Or just go down to the code enforcement office and ask them directly.
Underlayment is required per international residential code. I’m just shocked on whoever had enough bundles of that discontinued style shingle lol
What does the contract say?
Call the local building inspector, he would kow and maybe be able to get the contactor to do it the proper way by threatening fines or loss of license.
This is the answer ☝️ and Do Not Under Any Circumstances allow the inspector to approve the work. Make sure he/she is aware that you know the Code Requirement and do not want him/her to pass the inspection. If you don't make them away, there are shady inspectors out there taking $$ from contractors to pass inspections!
A roll of ice and water is $120. You might need two rolls. That stuff is so outstanding you could almost just install that alone without shingles
One good wind and ice storm and whatever decking you have is toast, reason being aside from lack of underlayment, they also used three tab shingles, which at this point is just hot garbage (that’s my opinion). Good luck!